| 00:45.47 | *** join/##ols rbergeron (n=stevenda@ip72-223-40-231.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:46.46 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: howdy! |
| 00:46.56 | rbergeron | i made it! |
| 00:47.11 | rbergeron | i have to harass someone for my laptop's password though. brb :) |
| 00:47.16 | rbergeron | i just want to make sure i can get in and remember things. |
| 00:47.37 | jwl_rh | heh, and set it to something memorable once you find out what it is :) |
| 00:47.56 | jwl_rh | don't keep him away from his paper for too long, though, he needs to get it in :-) |
| 00:49.06 | rbergeron | i think it's almost done. |
| 00:49.15 | rbergeron | and he can't remember what he set my password to. |
| 00:49.28 | rbergeron | time to fix that. |
| 00:49.42 | rbergeron | and then i need to create wireless |
| 00:49.45 | rbergeron | *deep breath* |
| 00:50.01 | rbergeron | i have seen some real gems of signs today, though. |
| 00:50.02 | jwl_rh | sudo passwd rbergeron oh-cr4p-I-ferg0t! ? :-) |
| 00:50.04 | rbergeron | "fat guy's gym" |
| 00:50.15 | rbergeron | which is okay... if the guy who owns it is named guy |
| 00:50.16 | jwl_rh | With opaque windows, I hope? :-) |
| 00:50.34 | rbergeron | there was an ad for a place with |
| 00:50.36 | rbergeron | studio's |
| 00:50.48 | rbergeron | and the best was |
| 00:50.51 | rbergeron | afficient car towing |
| 00:50.55 | jwl_rh | lot's of thats' goin'' around, alas. |
| 00:50.58 | jwl_rh | Hah! |
| 00:51.00 | rbergeron | where apparently |
| 00:51.03 | rbergeron | i will be very... ahem |
| 00:51.05 | rbergeron | effectionate |
| 00:51.09 | rbergeron | if they decide to town my car. |
| 00:51.17 | rbergeron | tow. |
| 00:51.21 | rbergeron | that is |
| 00:51.31 | jwl_rh | they're obviously aficionados of tow-tricks |
| 00:51.43 | rbergeron | efficionados? :) |
| 00:51.46 | jwl_rh | and think that 'afficient' is somehow related |
| 00:51.49 | jwl_rh | heh, that's the ticket |
| 00:52.11 | rbergeron | okay! i can has passwd now, excellent |
| 00:52.31 | jwl_rh | "efficionados, se habla espanol!"? :-) |
| 00:53.00 | jwl_rh | (I usually try to stick to latin, I butcher anything else :) |
| 00:54.04 | jwl_rh | (and oddly enough, every time I butcher a foreign language, some computer crashes, or a fatal bug hits software. weird how that works.) |
| 00:54.09 | rbergeron | sshhhhhh |
| 00:54.35 | rbergeron | i have a window on my laptop that says |
| 00:54.39 | rbergeron | "a hard disk is failing" |
| 00:54.44 | rbergeron | bad dell, bad |
| 00:55.08 | jwl_rh | either the 'smart' subsystem isn't, or you shouldn't count on storing anything important :( |
| 00:55.15 | rbergeron | well |
| 00:55.18 | rbergeron | anything important i had |
| 00:55.25 | rbergeron | accidentally disappeared with the arrival of f11 |
| 00:55.40 | jwl_rh | um, you had backups, I hope? |
| 00:56.22 | rbergeron | haha |
| 00:56.28 | jwl_rh | (some twisted part of me wants to design an external hard drive that looks like a plunger. Obvious choice for dealing with computer backups!) |
| 00:57.44 | jwl_rh | so does the build system work on F11? |
| 00:58.21 | jwl_rh | I've been restraining my impulse to try spinning a ProceedingsBuilder LiveCD |
| 00:59.19 | jwl_rh | (Bah, Oakland 5, Sox 0, top of the 7th innning.) |
| 00:59.57 | rbergeron | i hope so. |
| 01:00.01 | rbergeron | that would be hilarious |
| 01:00.07 | rbergeron | to have a builder livecd |
| 01:00.35 | rbergeron | steve says imagemagic has some flag that's not supported anymore |
| 01:00.47 | jwl_rh | combine it with the plunger (complete with motor to move it as the backup progresses) |
| 01:01.12 | rbergeron | but he said he managed to build the whole proceedings |
| 01:01.19 | rbergeron | except for the imagemagic flags |
| 01:01.27 | rbergeron | and by "hack" he means "remove" |
| 01:01.32 | rbergeron | i'm just dictating here |
| 01:01.33 | rbergeron | :) |
| 01:01.49 | jwl_rh | Hmm, I think the only thing IM is used for is "convert" |
| 01:02.19 | jwl_rh | Somebody used a ps/pdf converter that doesn't grok "-eps", but I think I fixed that. |
| 01:02.32 | rbergeron | but other than that they built right although he reports that the TOC looked a little funny |
| 01:02.38 | rbergeron | and he's updating my computer now |
| 01:02.46 | rbergeron | and i have to go retrieve chinese food, apparently |
| 01:03.01 | jwl_rh | There are folks who have "ReallyLong Titles(With More stuff Tacked On)" that still need fixing. |
| 01:03.24 | jwl_rh | The good news: everything should fit in the margins now. |
| 01:03.48 | jwl_rh | The bad: very little is proofread, and there are still some color/black&white issues. And bad-looking figures. |
| 01:04.11 | rbergeron | is this webpage still valid |
| 01:04.15 | rbergeron | http://people.redhat.com/lockhart/ols/FixGuide.txt |
| 01:04.38 | rbergeron | for the ruby/rails check in and out stuff |
| 01:04.52 | jwl_rh | Hmm. The basics should be. |
| 01:05.05 | rbergeron | ok. |
| 01:05.06 | jwl_rh | Have you done a checkout since last year? (I forget) |
| 01:05.11 | rbergeron | just wanted to make sure for the status |
| 01:05.11 | jwl_rh | I'll double check it |
| 01:05.16 | rbergeron | page |
| 01:05.17 | rbergeron | thing |
| 01:05.24 | rbergeron | yeah i've checked out |
| 01:05.30 | jwl_rh | You'll need to "sudo gem install -v 2.1.2 rails" |
| 01:05.30 | rbergeron | he checked out the whole tree |
| 01:05.31 | rbergeron | and built the proceedings |
| 01:05.43 | jwl_rh | since that version is now obsolete |
| 01:05.56 | rbergeron | k |
| 01:06.14 | rbergeron | i have to get my food. i'll bbiab... i'm pretty sure I can figure it out, I just couldn't remember where the status page was |
| 01:06.17 | jwl_rh | reads said link. Updated the EditorsGuide.pdf in admin |
| 01:06.20 | rbergeron | luckily i put all my notes in my email :) |
| 01:06.26 | rbergeron | to myself |
| 01:06.27 | rbergeron | last year |
| 01:06.28 | jwl_rh | http://localhost:3000/ols :-) |
| 01:06.31 | jwl_rh | hah! |
| 01:06.33 | jwl_rh | good move! |
| 01:07.22 | *** join/##ols Lrrr (i=neumann@mire.hcoop.net) |
| 01:07.23 | *** join/##ols riley_dt (n=stevenda@ip72-223-40-231.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:07.29 | *** part/##ols Lrrr (i=neumann@mire.hcoop.net) |
| 01:07.35 | riley_dt | hi steve here |
| 01:07.52 | jwl_rh | greetings, I noticed the username ;) |
| 01:08.03 | jwl_rh | which flags break under F11? |
| 01:08.04 | riley_dt | what is gem install? |
| 01:08.08 | riley_dt | i don't recall |
| 01:08.23 | riley_dt | when this update finishes i'll do a diff and tell you |
| 01:08.29 | jwl_rh | ruby gems are a bit like python egg{shells,cups,whatever-they-call-em} |
| 01:08.40 | jwl_rh | or perl modules, or .jar files |
| 01:09.08 | riley_dt | i couldn't figure out if the flag was needed since i couldn't find man pages for f8 |
| 01:09.09 | jwl_rh | gem is the ruby package manager, so that you can run multiple versions of ruby modules |
| 01:09.20 | riley_dt | doing update from f11 preview it will be 5-10 mins i think |
| 01:09.22 | jwl_rh | dunno what command/flag it is, otherwise I could make a guess |
| 01:09.23 | riley_dt | about half done |
| 01:09.32 | riley_dt | i'll let you know in a few minjutes |
| 01:09.45 | jwl_rh | how's the paper coming along? |
| 01:10.30 | jwl_rh | I noticed that some folks have used the 'listings' package to deal with C code. Seemed to work pretty well, once you feed it enough options. |
| 01:13.10 | riley_dt | what is the svn url for ols papers |
| 01:13.16 | riley_dt | maybe i didn't check it out on robyn's computer |
| 01:13.29 | riley_dt | she only has gcc papers here |
| 01:13.50 | jwl_rh | svn checkout svn+ssh://itsme@fedorapeople.org//home/fedora/lockhart/ols ols --username itsme --non-recursive |
| 01:14.14 | jwl_rh | cd ols ; svn update ols2009 admin |
| 01:16.52 | riley_dt | is suzaki's paper building now? |
| 01:16.59 | jwl_rh | yeah, finally |
| 01:17.08 | riley_dt | I'm afraid to update my local repo everything was broke months ago when i started |
| 01:17.18 | riley_dt | and i had to hack a bunch of papers out of the build |
| 01:17.31 | jwl_rh | just edit the DROPPED line in the top Makefile |
| 01:18.01 | jwl_rh | suzaki was on everyone's DROPPED line for quite a while :) |
| 01:18.16 | riley_dt | building the repo for her now |
| 01:18.43 | riley_dt | sorry the command is inkscape |
| 01:18.46 | riley_dt | -B option |
| 01:18.47 | jwl_rh | that paper still has issues with its .eps files, but epstopdf generates _something_ before it dies. |
| 01:18.53 | jwl_rh | ah! big difference. |
| 01:19.17 | jwl_rh | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:19.39 | jwl_rh | which is important for .eps. Maybe they figured that .eps files without boundingboxes weren't very useful? :) |
| 01:19.51 | riley_dt | greek to me :) |
| 01:20.07 | jwl_rh | grep BoundingBox */*.eps and see how often it's used :-) |
| 01:20.45 | riley_dt | it appears often |
| 01:21.01 | riley_dt | lemme read man pages see if there is a different option |
| 01:21.21 | jwl_rh | does it work okay without? |
| 01:22.46 | riley_dt | not sure |
| 01:22.49 | riley_dt | hey dinner is here |
| 01:22.52 | riley_dt | 5-10 min ok? |
| 01:23.11 | jwl_rh | works great -- take your time |
| 01:23.27 | jwl_rh | food is always better when consumed at a leisurely pace! :) |
| 01:41.57 | *** join/##ols riley_dt (n=stevenda@ip72-223-40-231.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:42.08 | riley_dt | unfortunately i rarely have time for leisure in my life |
| 01:43.45 | riley_dt | also -F option is invalid |
| 01:44.01 | jwl_rh | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:44.28 | jwl_rh | very important for non-PS fonts |
| 01:44.49 | jwl_rh | er, nonstandard ones |
| 01:45.06 | riley_dt | banginwar's paper looks correct without -B |
| 01:45.18 | riley_dt | shall i mail you the pdf? |
| 01:46.29 | riley_dt | tell me your version of inkscape pls |
| 01:46.33 | jwl_rh | nah, no need right now |
| 01:46.40 | riley_dt | i'll just install it |
| 01:46.56 | jwl_rh | inkscape-0.46-6.fc10.1.x86_64 |
| 01:54.57 | riley_dt | its rediculous that they would change the flags to the main app |
| 01:55.02 | riley_dt | sighs |
| 02:01.18 | riley_dt | inkscape has 15 billion dependencies |
| 02:12.14 | riley_dt | ok got inkscape 0.46 installed |
| 02:12.20 | riley_dt | repo is buidling |
| 02:12.26 | riley_dt | i'm going to turn it over to robyn now |
| 02:12.35 | riley_dt | if she has troubles she can ping me outside |
| 02:17.14 | *** join/##ols sdake_ (n=sdake@nat/redhat/x-5d4118efa9df7daa) |
| 02:17.16 | sdake_ | hi |
| 02:17.35 | sdake_ | robyn are you all set? |
| 02:19.25 | rbergeron | i think so |
| 02:20.36 | jwl_rh | make clean ; make working :-) |
| 02:21.32 | jwl_rh | lots of suzaki/fig.org stuff just appeared |
| 02:22.13 | riley_dt | jwl I didn't install that ruby tool you requested |
| 02:22.22 | riley_dt | might repeat the command to her |
| 02:23.22 | rbergeron | i have it |
| 02:23.25 | riley_dt | jwl are you going to montreal this year? |
| 02:24.52 | jwl_rh | riley_dt: nope |
| 02:25.19 | jwl_rh | "sudo gem install -v 2.1.2 rails" |
| 02:25.40 | jwl_rh | Although I'm slightly tempted to drive up for the party on Saturday :) |
| 02:26.00 | rbergeron | wait a second, are we missing a party |
| 02:26.06 | jwl_rh | Wow, Phillies over the reds by... 22 to 1! |
| 02:26.08 | rbergeron | coming sunday leaving saturday |
| 02:26.15 | rbergeron | that sounds like fail to me :( |
| 02:26.21 | jwl_rh | I don't know what the schedule is for Montreal |
| 02:26.31 | jwl_rh | but if it were Ottawa, the biggest party was always Saturday |
| 02:26.51 | rbergeron | gem not found! |
| 02:26.53 | jwl_rh | they rented out a whole pub, and everything was free all night. (Well, except for tips) |
| 02:26.55 | rbergeron | grrrr |
| 02:27.09 | rbergeron | yeah, but i thought the conference had stuff on saturday in the past. |
| 02:27.13 | jwl_rh | $ rpm -qf /usr/bin/gem |
| 02:27.13 | jwl_rh | rubygems-1.3.1-1.fc10.noarch |
| 02:27.21 | jwl_rh | Yeah, the main keynote was always saturday |
| 02:27.41 | jwl_rh | (how can you have rubygem-rails installed if you don't have rubygems? Weird.) |
| 02:27.55 | jwl_rh | Maybe I should go read the schedule. |
| 02:28.03 | jwl_rh | Would suck to drive to Montreal and find an empty city :-) |
| 02:29.23 | riley_dt | this year the party is 50 cad i think |
| 02:29.27 | riley_dt | andrew sent out a mail about it |
| 02:29.32 | jwl_rh | huh |
| 02:29.45 | jwl_rh | must also be on friday, as there's nothing on the schedule for saturday |
| 02:29.49 | jwl_rh | according to the website |
| 02:30.11 | rbergeron | yeah, saturday is nonexistent |
| 02:31.09 | jwl_rh | iirc, it's only around a 4-hr drive. Unlikely but possible I might drive up on Friday. |
| 02:31.28 | jwl_rh | However, I'm not planning on it. |
| 02:33.56 | rbergeron | it's what, another hour on top of the drive to ottawa, right? |
| 02:34.03 | jwl_rh | um, no. |
| 02:34.17 | jwl_rh | usually ottawa is about 4 hours after montreal |
| 02:34.30 | jwl_rh | so about half the journey in comparison |
| 02:34.53 | jwl_rh | but I really would rather go to the ocean a few times this summer. |
| 02:35.03 | jwl_rh | Haven't had a lot of summer time since... oh, about 2002. :) |
| 02:35.30 | jwl_rh | It really does take about 10-15 folks to handle the usual paper load. |
| 02:35.44 | jwl_rh | This year seems to be around 35 papers, which is a lot more reasonable editing-wise. |
| 02:36.46 | riley_dt | 4 hrs per paper |
| 02:36.50 | riley_dt | ]robyn isgoing to be busy |
| 02:37.07 | jwl_rh | If you're lucky, a paper can take 1-2 hours. |
| 02:37.10 | *** join/##ols rbergeron (n=rbergero@ip72-223-40-231.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:37.19 | jwl_rh | If it's somewhat bad, a paper can take 2-4 hours. |
| 02:37.40 | rbergeron | so, i have all this rails and ruby business installed now |
| 02:37.42 | jwl_rh | If it's from some "english as a foreign concept" author, it can take days. And a Rosetta Stone. |
| 02:37.45 | rbergeron | i'm feeling very web 2.0 |
| 02:37.53 | jwl_rh | heh |
| 02:38.05 | jwl_rh | You also have the sqlite3 stuff for ruby? |
| 02:38.18 | jwl_rh | I should really put a list of dependencies together at some point. |
| 02:38.19 | rbergeron | => Booting WEBrick |
| 02:38.19 | rbergeron | => Rails 2.3.2 application starting on http://0.0.0.0:3000 |
| 02:38.20 | rbergeron | /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.2/lib/initializer.rb:580:in `send': undefined method `cache_template_extensions=' for ActionView::Base:Class (NoMethodError) |
| 02:38.20 | rbergeron | from /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.2/lib/initializer.rb:580:in `initialize_framework_settings' |
| 02:38.20 | rbergeron | from /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.2/lib/initializer.rb:579:in `each' |
| 02:38.21 | rbergeron | from /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-2.3.2/lib/initializer.rb:579:in `initialize_framework_settings' |
| 02:38.25 | rbergeron | yeah, i put in the sqlite3 stuff. |
| 02:38.34 | jwl_rh | Why is it using 2.3.2? |
| 02:38.55 | rbergeron | i feel like professor farnsworth when i say..."i don't know! i just installed stuff" |
| 02:39.13 | rbergeron | i skipped to the system install dropdown button. |
| 02:39.22 | rbergeron | since it couldn't find gem, and blah blah blah. |
| 02:39.29 | jwl_rh | # Specifies gem version of Rails to use when vendor/rails is not present |
| 02:39.29 | jwl_rh | RAILS_GEM_VERSION = '2.1.2' unless defined? RAILS_GEM_VERSION |
| 02:39.34 | rbergeron | <---- clearly not the software engineer in the chat room |
| 02:39.43 | jwl_rh | (from admin/status2009/config/environment.rb) |
| 02:39.52 | rbergeron | hmm |
| 02:39.56 | rbergeron | maybe i can back it out |
| 02:40.00 | jwl_rh | You need to install the rubygems RPM |
| 02:40.11 | jwl_rh | And then do the 'gem install -v2.1.2 rails' bit |
| 02:40.55 | rbergeron | ok |
| 02:40.57 | rbergeron | i have gem! |
| 02:40.59 | rbergeron | now let's see what happens |
| 02:41.04 | jwl_rh | gem list --local |
| 02:41.16 | jwl_rh | that might be interesting to see what version(s) of rails you have |
| 02:41.18 | rbergeron | successfully installing ... stuff 2.1.2 |
| 02:41.24 | jwl_rh | whee! |
| 02:42.16 | rbergeron | i have to unload something from a truck. back in a flash |
| 02:42.25 | rbergeron | hopefully this stuff will be installed when i get back wheeee |
| 02:42.45 | jwl_rh | should take about 1-3 minutes to install |
| 02:43.02 | riley_dt | 42 bugs found. (show list) |
| 02:43.09 | riley_dt | my life ^^ |
| 02:43.44 | jwl_rh | um... get an anteater and a venus fly trap? That'll take care of a few... :-) |
| 02:45.27 | jwl_rh | I'm somewhat lucky, in that I can pretty much ignore some bugs. Mostly the Silly ones filed by newbies, who just want to talk about how they think things should work. |
| 02:46.08 | jwl_rh | OTOH, all the urgent ones are pretty much "drop what you're doing and fix it ASAP"... so they don't stick to any lists for long. |
| 02:46.42 | jwl_rh | Such is life for internal tools :) |
| 02:50.53 | riley_dt | im hammered with bugs and zstream requests non stop |
| 02:51.45 | rbergeron | i'm constantly tortured by users who want clean laundry and carpet and gourmet meals |
| 02:51.46 | rbergeron | ;) |
| 02:51.51 | jwl_rh | oh, I get requests nonstop -- generally whenever a security update misbehaves. They're just not always bug reports :) |
| 02:52.13 | jwl_rh | Well, if the bugs have gotten onto the carpet.... ;-) |
| 02:52.16 | rbergeron | hah |
| 02:52.27 | rbergeron | so, it still is looking for 2.3.2, or something. |
| 02:52.30 | rbergeron | or calling 2.3.2 |
| 02:52.33 | rbergeron | should i ... uninstall that |
| 02:53.02 | jwl_rh | it should really prefer 2.1.2, since that's what's defined. |
| 02:53.09 | jwl_rh | You're just doing "ruby script/server"? |
| 02:53.14 | rbergeron | yup. |
| 02:53.21 | jwl_rh | crud. |
| 02:53.32 | rbergeron | => Rails 2.3.2 application starting on http://0.0.0.0:3000 |
| 02:53.33 | jwl_rh | I'll go look and see if there's something I unwisely overrode |
| 02:53.42 | jwl_rh | horsehockey. |
| 02:54.20 | rbergeron | can't i just gem uninstall 2.3.2 or something clever like that :) |
| 02:56.34 | jwl_rh | you'd probably have to rpm -e rubygem-rails |
| 02:56.36 | jwl_rh | however |
| 02:56.45 | jwl_rh | you can also svn update the admin directory and try again |
| 02:56.54 | jwl_rh | I've attempted to force it to use 2.1.2 |
| 02:58.28 | rbergeron | tah DAHHHHHHH |
| 02:58.48 | jwl_rh | something was probably defining RAILS_GEM_VERSION elsewhere, then |
| 02:59.00 | jwl_rh | whatever it was needs to have a bug filed against it :/ |
| 03:00.02 | jwl_rh | riley_dt: that was a fine example right there. Some silly POS variable someplace changes unexpectedly, something breaks, and needs a fix right away. :-) |
| 03:00.25 | rbergeron | and you have pebkac here on the other side of the intarwebz so |
| 03:00.28 | rbergeron | right away!!! |
| 03:00.43 | rbergeron | it's all coming back to me. |
| 03:00.44 | rbergeron | ahhhhh. |
| 03:01.03 | jwl_rh | yeah, but you won't be filing a silly bugzilla against my components :-) |
| 03:01.39 | riley_dt | somoene filed a bug |
| 03:01.42 | rbergeron | editor list... i'm not in there |
| 03:01.49 | riley_dt | "openais crashes if ais user not present" |
| 03:01.50 | rbergeron | oh, i need to add myself |
| 03:01.57 | riley_dt | openais rpm installs ais user by default... |
| 03:02.12 | riley_dt | wonders how customers find these bugs... |
| 03:02.32 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: btw I've nearly got vaddagiri's odp and odt documents re-done as gnuplots |
| 03:02.46 | jwl_rh | It installs the user by default, the customer doesn't know why, attempts to delete the user, and *boom*... |
| 03:03.12 | jwl_rh | warthog9: cool! Was the data accessible? |
| 03:03.14 | riley_dt | such questions should not be asked |
| 03:03.46 | rbergeron | jwl, refresh my memory real quick on this papers status thing. do i just need to hit the svn-commit button at the top, or do i need to check stuff in and out on the command line as well to update the status? |
| 03:03.55 | jwl_rh | riley_dt: gotta ask about the data, otherwise it might be something from the RIAA or something, you never know :-) |
| 03:04.06 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah, they just used the create graph thing in OO.o |
| 03:04.11 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: you should be able to click 'svn-commit' whenever the bar turns red |
| 03:04.20 | rbergeron | okay |
| 03:04.22 | warthog9 | just took me a while to get the plot script to look about 95% the same |
| 03:04.36 | rbergeron | i remember last year there was a conflict or two and wanted to avoid that again :) |
| 03:04.41 | jwl_rh | warthog9: can't you get OO.o to export decent .EPS off of that? I thought it could... |
| 03:04.57 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: conflicts are still possible, alas. |
| 03:05.02 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: dunno |
| 03:05.04 | jwl_rh | It really needs to be hosted on a real site. |
| 03:05.17 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: I know it can export pdf no issue |
| 03:05.26 | jwl_rh | warthog9: you can do pdf->eps |
| 03:05.34 | jwl_rh | And crop if needed using pdfcrop |
| 03:05.45 | warthog9 | but I'm unsure of what exporting an oo.o presentation to a pdf would do |
| 03:05.59 | jwl_rh | It needs to be one page at a time |
| 03:06.02 | warthog9 | (note one is an odt and one is an odp) |
| 03:06.16 | jwl_rh | The presentation might be bitmap graphics -- I don't know |
| 03:06.27 | jwl_rh | gnuplot is definitely more flexible |
| 03:06.52 | jwl_rh | the conversion is just time consuming -- as you've undoubtedly noticed :/ |
| 03:07.08 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: YEAH, but it does mean that it's in something less 'stupid' |
| 03:07.19 | jwl_rh | way less stupid |
| 03:07.22 | warthog9 | and I've got the incantation now I think the last figure will take me all of 5 minutes to do |
| 03:07.42 | jwl_rh | you can easily get color or B&W .eps (and thus .pdf) out of it once it's in gnuplot. |
| 03:08.07 | jwl_rh | No GUI BS to make changes, just build-friendly scripts. ;) |
| 03:08.46 | jwl_rh | The nice thing is that once you learn gnuplot incantations -- and save them -- it's a *lot* easier the next time around. |
| 03:10.24 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: so what needs doing at this point is pretty much graphics and proofing. I'd start with just a skim to catch the worst problems -- skipping the Mystery English. |
| 03:11.13 | jwl_rh | I think the nastiest stuff -- scribbling all over the margins and such -- is all fixed by now. At least, I hope so! |
| 03:12.19 | rbergeron | well. nitpick proofing is my specialty :) |
| 03:12.43 | rbergeron | i'm just trying to remember how to check in and out and whatnot without breaking things. and wondering what on earth i did with my old cheatsheet |
| 03:13.20 | jwl_rh | There's a .ols-draft-2009.pdf on my people page -- a build I did earlier tonight. |
| 03:13.44 | jwl_rh | svn ci -m 'fixed all the rotten pseudo-english!' fubar.tex |
| 03:14.14 | jwl_rh | ci for checkin, co for checkout; update, rename, and delete are also useful. |
| 03:15.08 | jwl_rh | notes that 'svn update' is a lot more clear than 'git pull origin' :) |
| 03:15.19 | rbergeron | git pull hairout? |
| 03:15.36 | jwl_rh | I think it has something to do with Linus' bellybutton, really :-) |
| 03:16.05 | jwl_rh | (more accurately, "go pull an update from the place you got this, rather than some peer's copy") |
| 03:16.33 | jwl_rh | (of course, Linus Torvalds wrote the first version of 'git'...) |
| 03:18.14 | rbergeron | "Glock types" |
| 03:18.20 | rbergeron | always makes me want to giggle. |
| 03:18.26 | rbergeron | .40? .45? |
| 03:18.27 | rbergeron | no |
| 03:18.32 | rbergeron | wrong thing. |
| 03:18.51 | warthog9 | is still using git svn for this stuff |
| 03:19.44 | jwl_rh | 9mm types, unless it's special (then it's .38, of course). |
| 03:19.49 | rbergeron | lol |
| 03:19.58 | rbergeron | okay... |
| 03:20.13 | rbergeron | building an individual paper |
| 03:20.20 | rbergeron | i'm just trying to make sure i have all my informations in a row here |
| 03:20.26 | rbergeron | back to the editorsguide |
| 03:20.32 | jwl_rh | sigh. Finished my online berklee guitar course earlier. Reading all the other students' posts, and the instructor's responses... |
| 03:20.38 | jwl_rh | "This one is well worth putting in the extra time for, there is some real nice |
| 03:20.38 | jwl_rh | phrasing and good licks to learn hear, hopefully you'll be able to get it down |
| 03:20.38 | jwl_rh | in the future." |
| 03:20.52 | jwl_rh | I guess there's a reason he plays guitar and does not write for a living :-) |
| 03:21.19 | jwl_rh | And I'm happy not to be on the receiving end of that criticism :) |
| 03:21.50 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: Don't forget about the useful shell utilities in Utils/Shellfuncs.sh |
| 03:22.08 | jwl_rh | remake, mview, and such |
| 03:22.16 | jwl_rh | mkclean, that's the 3rd one. |
| 03:22.44 | rbergeron | AHHHHHH |
| 03:22.49 | jwl_rh | "mview brown 3" => builds brown, opens xpdf to page 3 if the build works. |
| 03:22.55 | rbergeron | wow i really miss my crib notes from lsat year |
| 03:22.57 | rbergeron | last |
| 03:23.04 | rbergeron | man oh man |
| 03:23.14 | jwl_rh | The EditorsGuide has all kinds of stuff in it. |
| 03:23.24 | jwl_rh | The trouble is that there's so much stuff! |
| 03:23.57 | rbergeron | mview |
| 03:23.59 | rbergeron | excellent |
| 03:24.04 | rbergeron | i think that's what i'm looking for |
| 03:24.06 | rbergeron | okay |
| 03:24.19 | jwl_rh | There's some variable you can set to make it use evince instead, if you prefer. |
| 03:24.41 | jwl_rh | It'd probably work with okular, too, but I don't know the "start on page NN" flag for that one. |
| 03:24.50 | rbergeron | i just might prefer that...if i knew wtf that was :) |
| 03:24.53 | rbergeron | i think i'm good. |
| 03:24.57 | warthog9 | evince is kinda useful, if the pdf your viewing underneath changes it will reload but keep the same page you were on |
| 03:24.58 | rbergeron | no use throwing pickles at me |
| 03:25.05 | jwl_rh | pdf viewers: evince, okular, xpdf. |
| 03:25.13 | rbergeron | ah |
| 03:25.16 | rbergeron | i know only of the latter |
| 03:25.25 | jwl_rh | The first 2 will display pages side-by-side -- excellent on wide-screen monitors, and for checking margins. |
| 03:26.31 | jwl_rh | will be wandering off for sleep in about half an hour |
| 03:26.58 | jwl_rh | (just in case you have any "ask jwl!" things up your sleeve for this evening :) |
| 03:27.33 | jwl_rh | (and if I could predict those, I'd write up answers in the FAQ :-) |
| 03:27.50 | rbergeron | or i'd save it in a file so that when my computer goes kablooey and doesn't have a backup... i'm hosed |
| 03:27.52 | rbergeron | oh wait |
| 03:27.52 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: why can't people follow the original instructions? |
| 03:27.55 | rbergeron | hmmmmmm. |
| 03:28.04 | rbergeron | oh now, warthog :) that's a silly question. |
| 03:28.19 | rbergeron | they Just Can't |
| 03:28.32 | jwl_rh | warthog9: The universe may or may not be infinite. There's no question about stupidity, though :-) |
| 03:29.00 | warthog9 | LOL |
| 03:29.29 | warthog9 | ok I'm getting decent e-mails with suzaki, I figured out what their original stuff was - it's not going to be pretty |
| 03:30.18 | jwl_rh | I couldn't get anything to grok and discard the binary previews |
| 03:30.22 | jwl_rh | kept messing things up |
| 03:30.45 | jwl_rh | Adobe Illustrator is not a fun thing to deal with. |
| 03:30.48 | warthog9 | yeah, apparently it went from ppt -> illustrator |
| 03:31.00 | jwl_rh | oh, ugh! |
| 03:31.11 | warthog9 | told you t wasn't going to be pretty |
| 03:31.15 | jwl_rh | ppt -> vomitorium -> illustrator is more like it. |
| 03:31.28 | warthog9 | but I've got the *original* eps files, he doesn't have the illustrator files anymore |
| 03:31.38 | riley_dt | i've never heard of this vomitorium tool |
| 03:31.45 | warthog9 | so this might be ppt -> eps -> illustrator |
| 03:31.50 | rbergeron | xpdf command not found! apparently it went to the vomitorium |
| 03:31.53 | rbergeron | looks at riley |
| 03:32.03 | riley_dt | try evince |
| 03:32.13 | rbergeron | that's what i hear around town |
| 03:32.26 | warthog9 | wonders why he picked the bottom most paper that hadn't been done as his first one to start on |
| 03:32.37 | jwl_rh | amusingly enough, I've been looking at FiveFeathers.com. Scary when combined with 'vomitorium'... ;) |
| 03:33.05 | jwl_rh | warthog9: suzaki and sales are likely the worst of the current lot. |
| 03:33.19 | jwl_rh | I expect that if/when thomas shows up, it will be pretty putrid, too. |
| 03:33.31 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: well at least they are getting worked on |
| 03:33.48 | jwl_rh | Most of the others will require a lot less work |
| 03:34.08 | jwl_rh | I've fixed up the margins in sales/ (salescritters like that, means bigger bonuses) |
| 03:34.17 | rbergeron | it is a little known secret that if you put a paper back, the next one you pick will be exponentially worse |
| 03:34.18 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah, even Terri was making fun of me "your helping with the editing?! but your latex foo isn't particularly advanced" |
| 03:34.19 | jwl_rh | haven't messed with anything else in it, though. |
| 03:34.53 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: did sales muck with his margins? |
| 03:34.56 | jwl_rh | foo is always as advanced as it needs to be. It's the 'fu' that's hard! :-) |
| 03:35.07 | warthog9 | hehe |
| 03:35.27 | jwl_rh | warthog9: nope, he just used the 'listings' package -- which appears to think that line numbers belong out in the margins, and there's no need to wrap characters on long lines. |
| 03:35.50 | warthog9 | ouch |
| 03:35.52 | jwl_rh | he had... I dunno, about 15 code listings. Most of which overflowed on both the left and right-hand margins. |
| 03:36.06 | warthog9 | ergh |
| 03:36.22 | warthog9 | btw these graphics in fig.orig for suzaki aren't a *LOT* better |
| 03:36.22 | jwl_rh | A lot of that was fixed by reading the 'listings.pdf' docs and adding 3 arguments to his settings. |
| 03:36.32 | warthog9 | hehehe |
| 03:36.42 | warthog9 | latex is like that some days |
| 03:36.50 | jwl_rh | The rest were fixed by manually wrapping the code (python, shell, C, and C++ code, fwiw). |
| 03:37.14 | warthog9 | wrapping python and having it still be 'right' is the hardest of those |
| 03:37.38 | jwl_rh | Well... I'm a ruby/perl guy. I wasn't as particular as the python interpreter about the whitespace :) |
| 03:38.16 | warthog9 | you can pry perl & bash from my cold dead hands ;-) |
| 03:38.26 | jwl_rh | I know enough python to get by, but I really prefer nasty rashes to voluntarily writing python code. :) |
| 03:39.29 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: if you have 5 seconds take a look at suzaki/fig.org/Log-LBCAS.eps |
| 03:39.48 | warthog9 | I'm 99.9% sure that's a bitmap in the eps, and I'm reasonably sure most of his stuff is like that |
| 03:40.23 | jwl_rh | looks pretty fuzzy, and definitely has a bad BoundingBox |
| 03:41.05 | warthog9 | it's text, if you increase the size (or decrease if for that matter) it just gets butt ugly |
| 03:41.17 | warthog9 | it's like text with AA already done to it, saved as a bitmap and shoved in the eps |
| 03:41.35 | warthog9 | do we try and fix that or give up and accept that those are just going to look like arse? |
| 03:41.39 | jwl_rh | warthog9: eps2eps fixes the BoundingBox, but not its bitmapiness (to coin a new cussword). |
| 03:42.18 | jwl_rh | Hmm. |
| 03:43.03 | jwl_rh | Given that this is just a bunch of random binary data that nobody gives a rat's ass about, I say it should probably be reminiscent of said rat's backside. |
| 03:43.03 | warthog9 | I asked him for the ppt but I'm really doubting I can do more from that |
| 03:43.16 | jwl_rh | a text version would be the most useful |
| 03:43.25 | warthog9 | of that specifically, yeah |
| 03:43.32 | jwl_rh | I wonder if SANE would take the eps (or pdf, or screenshot) as input. |
| 03:43.48 | warthog9 | maybe |
| 03:43.57 | jwl_rh | but... |
| 03:44.06 | warthog9 | but since it's ppt I'm going to have to run it through *ACTUAL* powerpoint |
| 03:44.18 | warthog9 | oo.o will futz the placement of stuff |
| 03:44.20 | jwl_rh | I think the rat's ass is really the answer for that figure. |
| 03:44.45 | jwl_rh | Unless he refers to any of the numbers in the text. |
| 03:45.54 | warthog9 | I'll take a look, I hope not |
| 03:46.22 | jwl_rh | There's a fine line here, actually. The proceedings should look as good as possible, but the work of the authors should reflect their skill and effort. |
| 03:46.37 | warthog9 | it's author vs. conference |
| 03:46.40 | jwl_rh | If he's using closed-source crapware and can't recover... bad for both the proceedings and the author. |
| 03:46.59 | jwl_rh | If everyone else looks good and he looks bad... well. |
| 03:47.01 | warthog9 | wonders if he even *HAS* office installed on his VM |
| 03:47.42 | jwl_rh | warthog9: probably not worth it. See if he can convince ppt to print to an apple laserwriter if it won't do decent EPS. |
| 03:48.03 | jwl_rh | save the ensuing (pretty generic) Postscript file and see if it works better. |
| 03:48.18 | jwl_rh | Because actually using powerpoint is way too much effort |
| 03:48.25 | jwl_rh | there are other papers that need attention, too. |
| 03:48.38 | warthog9 | yeah |
| 03:48.40 | jwl_rh | As I said, balance. |
| 03:48.45 | warthog9 | nods |
| 03:49.03 | warthog9 | yeah I musta uninstalled office from the vm many moons ago, I'm not seeing it there anymore |
| 03:49.50 | jwl_rh | You could probably do 3 or 4 other papers in the amount of time suzaki has taken (or will take). If he didn't follow the directions... his problem, after a bit of trying. |
| 03:50.14 | warthog9 | probably, vaddagiri's wasn't bad once I had all the figures |
| 03:50.27 | jwl_rh | *usually* people can pick up the proceedings at the conference. Hopefully that can continue :) |
| 03:51.40 | jwl_rh | If there are 30 that look good, and then some that didn't follow directions... not as good as all 30-something being spotless, but I'd rather have the errors be in the non-directions papers. |
| 03:52.04 | rbergeron | yay |
| 03:52.06 | rbergeron | i can do everything |
| 03:52.31 | rbergeron | and now i have to drive 140 miles before I do anything else. |
| 03:52.31 | jwl_rh | whee! Now, can you do it by yesterday? 8^) |
| 03:52.48 | jwl_rh | 140 miles?? |
| 03:55.05 | jwl_rh | "It's 10pm MDT, time to drive for 2+ hours"? |
| 03:55.20 | rbergeron | i'm in phoenix, and i have to drive to flagstaff. |
| 03:55.29 | rbergeron | and really, when it's 115 in the day in phoenix, driving is much better at night. |
| 03:55.46 | rbergeron | and i'm on PDT right now, being in arizona and all |
| 03:55.47 | jwl_rh | Anything is much better by night if it's 115 during the day |
| 03:55.52 | rbergeron | ;0 |
| 03:55.53 | rbergeron | ) |
| 03:55.55 | jwl_rh | I though AZ was MDT |
| 03:56.02 | rbergeron | ah, we're that state that doesn't switch. |
| 03:56.06 | rbergeron | so half the year, we're on mountain |
| 03:56.07 | warthog9 | AZ does *WEIRD* things |
| 03:56.10 | rbergeron | and the other half the year, pacific. |
| 03:56.14 | jwl_rh | I guess my mind is in NM. |
| 03:56.15 | rbergeron | we are weird. |
| 03:56.22 | rbergeron | we don't follow daylight savings, and |
| 03:56.23 | rbergeron | and |
| 03:56.29 | rbergeron | ...... |
| 03:56.37 | rbergeron | oh, we have sheriff joe. I think that covers it. |
| 03:56.49 | jwl_rh | And here I thought you'd mention McCain |
| 03:57.22 | jwl_rh | (who is actually fairly cool, I'd love to hear him tell stories over beer.) |
| 03:57.49 | jwl_rh | dunno about the politics, but I bet he tells great stories. |
| 03:58.46 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: btw, next time it hits 115 when it's raining and 60-ish in NH, send the weather system up here! |
| 03:59.00 | jwl_rh | it'll cool off a bit before it arrives, anyway. :) |
| 03:59.40 | jwl_rh | svn ci -m 'here it comes!' heatwave_NH |
| 04:00.37 | jwl_rh | Just about ZZZzzz time for me |
| 04:00.43 | jwl_rh | Any last questions/issues for the night? |
| 04:03.26 | jwl_rh | warthog9: vaddagiri is looking a lot better. Still need to do a flushleft on the references, and lose the underscore on the italics in the one place it occurs. |
| 04:04.00 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah I got the graphics done, hadn't started in on the other formatting |
| 04:04.04 | jwl_rh | The margins might be a bit off on page 6 (is fig 5 wider than \columnwidth?) |
| 04:04.34 | jwl_rh | Nice grouping of figures, though. |
| 04:05.07 | warthog9 | they did that on their own |
| 04:05.32 | jwl_rh | istr that it looked different the last time I saw it, not as much grouping. |
| 04:05.51 | jwl_rh | then again, I was trying to scan through the whole thing. |
| 04:06.12 | jwl_rh | so maybe I'm wrong (it happens, but I try to ensure that it's only for pessimistic predictions) |
| 04:07.26 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: could be that just adjusting the images they way they are now caused some space changes |
| 04:07.46 | warthog9 | maybe the od[pt]-> gnuplot changed the figure sizes enough |
| 04:07.47 | jwl_rh | pretty common side-effect. |
| 04:08.03 | jwl_rh | they're legible, so that's cool. |
| 04:20.01 | jwl_rh | 'k, time to go grab some of that fleeting sleep stuff |
| 04:20.04 | jwl_rh | g'night... |
| 04:22.43 | riley_dt | night |
| 14:00.23 | *** join/##ols ajh (n=ajh@174.35.130.95) |
| 14:01.29 | ajh | I need an editor for the programme, someone who can comment on layout, enhance copy text (only my stuff, not the talk details etc), and otherwise be constructive on how things can be improved, I am waiting on a handful of sponsor items but should be going to print with it later today. |
| 14:31.22 | fonseca | I am up for giving it a try. |
| 14:40.04 | fonseca | Will look at the bird paper |
| 16:26.17 | *** join/##ols rbergeron (n=stevenda@24.121.241.178) |
| 16:26.45 | rbergeron | gooooood morning! |
| 16:36.48 | jwl_rh | more rain and clouds here, alas. :/ |
| 16:37.31 | rbergeron | awe |
| 16:37.40 | rbergeron | hey, we hit an elk on the freeway last night! |
| 16:37.43 | rbergeron | not awesome at all. |
| 16:38.03 | jwl_rh | ouch, everyone okay? (well, excepting the elk, presumably) |
| 16:42.21 | rbergeron | dandy. |
| 16:42.36 | rbergeron | my driver's side mirror is destroyed. |
| 16:43.00 | rbergeron | he was apparently running across the street just slow enough to not have landed in the front of my car, just his head on the window and body on the side. |
| 16:43.20 | rbergeron | which means, my car is intact, and i don't have sad elk in my windshield. |
| 16:43.37 | ajh | This is why I am upgrading my lighting to xenons. With the current vehicle at 100kph there is just not enough time to stop. |
| 16:43.54 | ajh | Radar would also be a nice addition. |
| 16:43.58 | jwl_rh | phew, good to hear everyone's okay. could've been tons worse than just a mirror |
| 16:44.05 | rbergeron | yeah. |
| 16:44.06 | jwl_rh | ajh: vehicular weaponry! :-) |
| 16:44.09 | rbergeron | also if we had been driving faster |
| 16:44.31 | rbergeron | that whole spin to the left, spin to the right, drive into it, race-car-video-game-like experience |
| 16:44.31 | ajh | jwl, I thought a bullbar would help, but when I impacted something else, it just bent the thing up doing more damage... |
| 16:44.33 | rbergeron | would have resulted in a rolling vehicle |
| 16:45.13 | ajh | The real solution is tubular roll cage with challenge wings (also tubular steel), those would survive. :) |
| 16:45.24 | jwl_rh | how long did the trip wind up taking, with an adventure like that? sounds like a late night with little sleep, to me. |
| 16:45.47 | jwl_rh | (and a good long pause to let the adrenaline wear off :) |
| 16:45.56 | rbergeron | well, we were on track for 1:45 |
| 16:46.05 | rbergeron | but then we had to call da police... |
| 16:46.10 | rbergeron | and it took him 20 minutes to drive out |
| 16:46.22 | rbergeron | and then he decided that it woudl be best to go see if he could find the elk |
| 16:46.28 | rbergeron | prior to writing up the police report |
| 16:46.35 | rbergeron | despite the unhappy children in the backseat |
| 16:46.46 | rbergeron | then he had to come back and take the report, and ask inane questions such as |
| 16:46.52 | rbergeron | "were you wearing your seatbelt?" |
| 16:47.04 | rbergeron | "no, officer, i wasn't, can you please write me a 75 dollar ticket?" |
| 16:47.05 | rbergeron | or... |
| 16:47.32 | rbergeron | "were your children in car seats?" (as he looks into the back of the car and it is very apparent that they are in car seats) |
| 16:47.33 | ajh | no, elk can tell. |
| 16:47.49 | ajh | it had everything to do with why it got in front of you. |
| 16:48.09 | jwl_rh | why does having the elk make any difference for your part of the report? grr. |
| 16:48.24 | jwl_rh | elk only choose to jump in front of seatbelt-wearing drivers, then? :) |
| 16:48.30 | rbergeron | well, we could hear it making sad little elk cries. |
| 16:48.40 | rbergeron | so he wanted to go see if it was injured. |
| 16:48.50 | rbergeron | because, you know, having to shoot the elk dead would be awesome with my kids right there and all. |
| 16:49.07 | rbergeron | and they were pretty much unhappy. |
| 16:49.14 | rbergeron | first, they are awakened in the middle of the night. |
| 16:49.15 | rbergeron | by |
| 16:49.21 | rbergeron | "what's with all the crazy driving?" |
| 16:49.31 | rbergeron | then we explain to them that we hit an animal, and he's destroyed our mirror. |
| 16:49.35 | rbergeron | and now the police are coming. |
| 16:49.44 | jwl_rh | "if" it was injured? I'd wager that it wasn't making cries of joy... |
| 16:49.47 | rbergeron | they were not really down with the whole situation. |
| 16:49.54 | rbergeron | well, it wasn't injured enough to hang around. |
| 16:49.57 | rbergeron | it ran off. |
| 16:50.33 | rbergeron | or at least, limped off. |
| 16:50.45 | jwl_rh | "those metal boxes hit hard, and worse, they bring louse *humans* with them! I'm OUTTA here!!" :) |
| 16:50.57 | rbergeron | by if it was injured I mean... vs. being dead :) |
| 16:51.10 | ajh | out of curiousity does your vehicle have deer whistles mounted? |
| 16:51.43 | rbergeron | no, no |
| 16:52.01 | ajh | OK, a yes would have been more interesting, sadly no does not prove anything :( |
| 16:52.08 | rbergeron | elk usually aren't down this low this time of year |
| 16:52.19 | rbergeron | it's kind of warm |
| 16:52.27 | ajh | Amazing where large animals are going these days. |
| 16:52.29 | rbergeron | usually we only see them in the winter, wandering through the neighborhood |
| 16:52.36 | rbergeron | IT'S GLOBAL WARMING! |
| 16:52.39 | rbergeron | oh, wait |
| 16:52.40 | ajh | We get whitetails in the backyard every few days. |
| 16:53.04 | rbergeron | it gets pretty hot in the forest in arizona during the summer :) |
| 16:54.15 | ajh | Even a rabbit can take out a rad or oil cooler and leave you stranded though |
| 16:54.31 | jwl_rh | it's 62F here today, cloudy, and with a severe thunderstorm warning |
| 16:54.47 | ajh | Did I mention I am hand-building an expedition vehicle and these things are major concerns I have to deal with :) |
| 16:55.23 | jwl_rh | I have a brush guard on the underside of my CRV. Have had stuff go 'klunk' off of that, nice that it didn't hit more than the guard. |
| 16:55.47 | ajh | The guard I am fitting is 8mm aluminum :) |
| 16:56.23 | ajh | Well, and a full steel track-rod guard that can be used to jack up the vehicle. :) |
| 16:56.46 | jwl_rh | wow. any treads & turret with that? :-) |
| 16:57.09 | ajh | Nope :) |
| 16:57.47 | ajh | but basically I want to avoid anything heavy hitting something and taking out something critical. |
| 16:58.03 | jwl_rh | (saw a re-run a while ago of the Mythbusters episode where they tear apart 2 phone books using two tanks... impressive vehicles, especially in a parking lot.) |
| 16:58.05 | ajh | especially if I am in the mountains in Patagonia with no way to get a rescue vehicle in. |
| 16:58.31 | *** join/##ols riley_dt (n=stevenda@24.121.241.178) |
| 16:58.54 | ajh | It is getting expensive though, and I have not dealt with roof rack, storage drawers, or water heating/pumping, or air pump yet :( |
| 16:59.08 | jwl_rh | I'd also worry about the little stuff, like dirt/pebbles getting in unfortunate places. Lots more little stuff to hit rather than big stuff. |
| 16:59.10 | ajh | well, or engine rebuild, but I am hoping that can be a few years off, it only has 300K miles on it. |
| 16:59.32 | jwl_rh | "only"? whoosh. My CRV is just over 100K. |
| 16:59.47 | ajh | It is a turbo diesel. :) |
| 16:59.52 | ajh | 32mpg. :) |
| 17:00.08 | ajh | Should go to about 700K before needing major work. |
| 17:00.13 | ajh | Possibly more. |
| 17:03.00 | jwl_rh | only about 24mpg on mine, alas. and the new CRV models aren't any better, grr. Mine is 10 years old; you think they'd improve things in that span. |
| 17:03.57 | jwl_rh | not a lot of cars with 4WD and decent mileage, though |
| 17:04.37 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah mine only gets about 22 - 23mpg overall |
| 17:04.42 | ajh | Well, this is only 118HP/230ft lb stock. |
| 17:05.35 | ajh | I am fitting a large intercooler and variable noz turbo later though which should bring it to 140HP/320ft-lb and only reduce milage to about 30-31mpg highway. |
| 17:05.46 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: for the record, I commend you for not being a bitter angry individual hell bent on beating people with sticks |
| 17:05.49 | ajh | An overdrive should restore that loss too, but they are not cheap either. |
| 17:06.01 | ajh | warthog9, give it time. :) |
| 17:06.30 | jwl_rh | warthog9: chainsaws. that way you can still get sticks if you need 'em for less troublesome cases. :) |
| 17:06.33 | ajh | jwl, have I said how much I appreciate you making the time to help kick things again? I need to do that every few hours at least. |
| 17:07.05 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah but bone and tissue clogs up the teeth |
| 17:07.21 | jwl_rh | ajh, welcome, but things aren't out of the woods fully. "thar 'r *elk* in those papers!" or something like that. |
| 17:08.10 | jwl_rh | warthog9: cleaning the chainsaw is more fun, and provides an extra source of red ink for markup ;) |
| 17:08.22 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: btw any suggestions for preventing a verbatimed code sample from spanning multiple columns/pages / |
| 17:09.00 | warthog9 | (the code sample that spans the columns / pages at the bottom of page 7 on sinha's paper offends me for some reason) |
| 17:09.09 | jwl_rh | Try the 'listings' package, or fancyvrb. I think those can sanely break between columns and pages. |
| 17:09.12 | jwl_rh | hmm, will look. |
| 17:10.36 | ajh | Not to rush but it would be nice to start running it tomorrow. :) |
| 17:10.43 | jwl_rh | warthog9: the last line (page 8) has a problem - shouldn't be \_ chars there. Also shouldn't be in the margin. |
| 17:10.54 | jwl_rh | warthog9: try taking out the blank lines in the verbatim figure on page 6. |
| 17:11.15 | jwl_rh | That should cause some stuff from 7 to go back onto 6, and let the page 8 overflow get back onto 7. |
| 17:12.22 | jwl_rh | ajh: we're still missing papers... |
| 17:13.33 | jwl_rh | (3 more: dake, petersen, thomas) |
| 17:13.37 | jwl_rh | UU suzaki/DAVL-LBCAS.eps |
| 17:13.49 | jwl_rh | ^ hmm, haven't seen 'UU' before from SVN. Is that a reversion? |
| 17:14.10 | warthog9 | dunno what that means |
| 17:14.19 | ajh | Could you send them a final warning? |
| 17:17.02 | jwl_rh | ajh: sent out a note, cc'd you. |
| 17:17.32 | jwl_rh | I can't recall having heard anything from thomas/ this year. |
| 17:18.47 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: feel free to bug Steve directly :) |
| 17:19.20 | ajh | Thanks. |
| 17:19.21 | rbergeron | i have thrown rocks at him |
| 17:19.39 | rbergeron | he is working on it :) |
| 17:19.43 | jwl_rh | rbergeron: foam ones, I hope -- at least until he gets the check-in done! :-) |
| 17:50.26 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: you were working on sales right? |
| 17:50.40 | ajh | What I hate the most is spending 3 days editing programme copy to make things fit, then some cancels and makes all the editing moot. |
| 18:30.02 | *** join/##ols sdake (n=sdake@nat/redhat/x-a29dceb6d2c46908) |
| 19:31.46 | jwl_rh | warthog9: and I finished -- was just putting the stuff within the margins. |
| 19:32.20 | warthog9 | ::looks up:: |
| 19:32.39 | jwl_rh | warthog9: re sales |
| 19:32.50 | warthog9 | ahhhh, good I will happily skip that one ;-) |
| 19:34.34 | jwl_rh | warthog9: but the only thing I did was to make the graphics fit into the margins. There are plenty of other problems there. :) However, I'd advise doing the easier ones first. |
| 19:35.23 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: yeah |
| 19:38.29 | jwl_rh | will be quietly heading off the air for a bit: http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?location=USMA0046 |
| 19:38.34 | jwl_rh | nasty T-storms moving through |
| 19:40.40 | ajh | Programme nearly done. |
| 21:32.40 | warthog9 | ok nussbaum mostly done now |
| 21:33.50 | jwl_rh | runs another build, as sdake has checked in a (preliminary?) paper |
| 21:34.50 | sdake | pretty close to done needs performance analsys and editing |
| 21:35.04 | sdake | i can drop performance analsys if absolutely necessary |
| 21:35.26 | sdake | should be ready with it today though |
| 21:38.49 | jwl_rh | ajh: ^^ sound good? |
| 21:39.04 | ajh | Sure, as long as it all works :) |
| 21:39.25 | ajh | I would rather avoid being up for 4 days feeding paper into printers. |
| 21:39.45 | ajh | Nobody carries B&W printers with decent sized feeders anymore. |
| 21:39.58 | warthog9 | ajh: they do, they are just $$$$$$$ |
| 21:39.58 | sdake | there is always hp |
| 21:40.02 | sdake | lol... |
| 21:40.08 | ajh | Last I checked they did not have stock in stores. |
| 21:40.17 | ajh | 1-2 weeks. |
| 21:40.19 | sdake | 6 print jobs or 6 months whatever comes first |
| 21:40.20 | warthog9 | ajh: no your well into special order |
| 21:40.50 | warthog9 | ajh: I *DID* see a giant laser at weird stuff last I was there |
| 21:40.56 | warthog9 | 4 paper trays |
| 21:41.16 | sdake | jwl did that paper render properly on f8? |
| 21:41.18 | sdake | it looks good on f11 |
| 21:43.16 | jwl_rh | ajh: I've updated .ols-draft-2009.pdf on my people page. |
| 21:43.37 | jwl_rh | sdake: haven't looked yet, but ^ the above should have the full-build version. |
| 21:44.15 | ajh | How are we on missing papers? |
| 21:44.40 | warthog9 | I count 4 on the ruby page |
| 21:44.55 | jwl_rh | there should be 2 |
| 21:44.57 | warthog9 | thomas, petersen, bhatia, bhatia2 |
| 21:46.07 | warthog9 | loves people with zero or nearly zero graphics in their papers |
| 21:46.20 | jwl_rh | warthog9: check again. It's 2 now. :) |
| 21:46.20 | ajh | bhatia and bhatia2 are dropped. |
| 21:47.06 | warthog9 | only 2 now |
| 21:47.12 | warthog9 | and I'm slowly crawling my way up the list |
| 21:47.32 | warthog9 | I'll also admit to my brain turning to mush about now |
| 21:48.28 | jwl_rh | sdake: I'd suggest turning off the line-numbering in the listings if you're not going to reference the line numbers. Also, one listing is missing a \label, which is why there's a "??" in the text now. |
| 21:48.51 | sdake | ok i will fix that right now |
| 21:49.04 | sdake | the line numbering was default from some other paper i borrowed |
| 21:49.09 | jwl_rh | Other than that, it's just a matter of positioning. Possibly some begin{figure}[ht] (e.g., add the [ht]) would help, but it'll likely require some playing around to get it looking its best. |
| 21:49.15 | jwl_rh | I know :) |
| 21:49.28 | sdake | that listings package rocks |
| 21:49.34 | jwl_rh | But that author actually referred to the line numbers in places. |
| 21:49.43 | warthog9 | was pretty happy with fancyvrb |
| 21:49.47 | jwl_rh | Both fancyvrb and listings are pretty convenient. |
| 21:50.11 | warthog9 | ajh: for the record I only have one of my presentations done ;-) |
| 21:50.17 | jwl_rh | neither is a panacea. I think those are forbidden in the TeX specification, though :) |
| 21:52.09 | warthog9 | jwl_rh: probably |
| 21:52.44 | jwl_rh | I've never seen a this_just_works.{sty,cls} in a latex distro... :-) |
| 21:53.08 | warthog9 | it's probably illegal under the DMCA or something |
| 21:53.17 | jwl_rh | it's always a case of kinda_sort_works. |
| 21:53.18 | warthog9 | or that patriot act |
| 21:53.37 | jwl_rh | somebody probably has a patent on just_works or something :) |
| 21:53.54 | jwl_rh | (but like any troll, just holds the patent without producing products) |
| 22:01.03 | sdake | jwl what does ht do |
| 22:14.48 | jwl_rh | begin{figure}[placement], where placement == one or more of: h(ere), t(op), b(ottom), optionally with '!' for "I really really want it" |
| 22:15.30 | jwl_rh | sometimes [t!] works great, sometimes [ht]. Sometimes omitting the [placement] works best. |
| 22:16.23 | jwl_rh | The other trick is to specify the figure before the page you want it to appear on. |
| 22:17.00 | jwl_rh | if the definition is long, sometimes putting into a separate file is best (then just \input it in different places til it looks good). |
| 22:17.20 | jwl_rh | that way you minimize any cut-and-paste oopses. :) |
| 22:27.49 | sdake | thx |
| 23:54.38 | warthog9 | sdake: I.E. it's a giant crap shoot, try combinations till your happy ;-) |
| 23:55.36 | sdake | ok will do |
| 23:58.33 | jwl_rh | not quite a crap shoot (no dice required), but there's certainly trial-and-error involved. |