| 00:00.10 | scottj | aeryndunham: I was joking, I'm new and I think he is too |
| 00:00.16 | aeryndunham | haha ok |
| 00:00.35 | scottj | I think Bender2 is non-Mormon, presumably Christian |
| 00:02.57 | aeryndunham | is Agnostic-ish and would be Mormon were she religious. |
| 00:03.06 | aeryndunham | No LDS family, just... think it's super cool |
| 00:04.54 | Bender2 | scottj, I'm jewish |
| 00:07.11 | scottj | aeryndunham: ahh, interesting, what do you like most about it? |
| 00:08.17 | scottj | Bender2: ahh, orthodox, reform, messianic, karaite? (idk these categories that well so may be missing some or perhaps these can overlap) |
| 00:08.49 | aeryndunham | The Plan of Salvation. How nobody really goes to Hell. Nobody is condemned just because they never heard about Jesus. Even if you don't measure up on a Celestial level, you still go to Heaven. |
| 00:09.03 | aeryndunham | And Mormon focus on education and charity |
| 00:09.17 | aeryndunham | is also super liberal so we are at odds on a number of things, but.... I do love it. |
| 00:11.15 | Bender2 | orthodox |
| 00:11.19 | Bender2 | messianic jews are christians |
| 00:11.37 | Bender2 | jews view them as christians |
| 00:11.47 | Bender2 | and they view themselves as christians |
| 00:11.56 | scottj | yeah, the op of ##judaism is messianic, has some interesting perspectives |
| 00:14.23 | scottj | things along these lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLkoANOKKgU |
| 00:16.43 | scottj | aeryndunham: well Hugh Nibley was imo pretty liberal (probably more in a economic/political respect than socially) and he loved Mormonism too |
| 00:17.27 | scottj | and some of Joseph Smith's political/economic views are quite liberal |
| 00:17.34 | aeryndunham | nods |
| 00:19.00 | scottj | aeryndunham: where abouts do you live? |
| 00:19.09 | scottj | Bender2: you too |
| 00:19.16 | scottj | if you want to share. Washington state here. |
| 00:19.41 | aeryndunham | I'm from Massachusetts but I work on a cruise ship |
| 00:19.50 | scottj | nice, caribbean? |
| 00:20.07 | scottj | Joseph Smith lived in Massachusetts for a time I believe |
| 00:20.29 | scottj | as a child he had an medical operation on his leg, and I believe he went to live with his uncle in Massachusetts |
| 00:20.42 | aeryndunham | We will be in the Caribbean soon, we're actually cruising Canada/New England at the moment |
| 00:20.45 | aeryndunham | I think I've read that, actually |
| 00:20.59 | aeryndunham | read the Kindle sample of Rough Stone Rolling. Will read the whole thing at some point. |
| 00:23.22 | scottj | aeryndunham: it's a good biography, but personally I prefer autobiographies more, and highly recommend "History of Joseph Smith by his Mother" more, since she lived through many of the experiences that she relates |
| 00:23.42 | aeryndunham | Yes, I've got that on a reading list as well |
| 00:24.03 | scottj | aeryndunham: have you read the BOM? |
| 00:24.18 | scottj | one of the best books imo is "Understanding the Book of Mormon" by Grant Hardy |
| 00:24.33 | aeryndunham | my kindle tells me I'm 30% through |
| 00:24.33 | scottj | that book is super insightful and interesting even to long time Mormons |
| 00:25.51 | aeryndunham | i'm sort of at a place where I don't think any religion is true most days but if one were it'd be Mormonism. |
| 00:25.57 | scottj | aeryndunham: nice, if you want some variety I like reading this edition http://publications.mi.byu.edu/publications/bookchapters/Poetic_Parallelisms_in_the_Book_of_Mormon_The_Complete_Text_/Poetic%20Parallelisms%20in%20the%20Book%20of%20Mormon.pdf |
| 00:26.04 | aeryndunham | although I think I'd be a terrible Mormon |
| 00:26.07 | aeryndunham | were I baptized |
| 00:27.58 | scottj | we all would be if we're not truly born again, or if we stop repenting |
| 00:28.02 | aeryndunham | But something keeps me constantly reading about it and studying, so.... there's something there |
| 00:29.55 | scottj | well religion is an interesting topic, I've been enjoying reading about Catholicism recently, and Islam before that |
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| 17:46.45 | romanovic_ | wow, I don't check IRC over the weekend and that's when all the conversation happens |
| 17:49.22 | aeryndunham | haha |
| 17:49.26 | aeryndunham | romanovic: How are you? |
| 17:50.17 | romanovic | good! also, wondering if I have some sort of adult-onset allergies |
| 17:50.24 | aeryndunham | ooh, crappy! |
| 17:50.32 | aeryndunham | We are late pulling into Boston; horrible weather |
| 17:50.35 | romanovic | never had food or seasonal allergies growing up |
| 17:50.43 | aeryndunham | and I'm explaining the electoral college system to my British assistant |
| 17:51.34 | romanovic | but this year, for some reason, I've had a runny/stuffy nose for weeks with no other illness present. and no pattern to the sinus issues other than that it came suddenly at the end of summer and hasn't gone away |
| 17:51.39 | romanovic | oh, that must be fun |
| 17:51.39 | aeryndunham | what do you think you are allergic to? |
| 17:52.53 | aeryndunham | :( |
| 17:52.55 | aeryndunham | that is no fun |
| 17:53.27 | aeryndunham | I'm not sure that "why does wyoming only get 3 votes?" "oh, nobody LIVES in Wyoming" is quite the kind of answer I am supposed to give :p |
| 17:54.04 | romanovic | not sure? I thought maybe ragweed or something, but it happens on both sunny and rainy days. I would have thought the allergen count goes way down on rainy days. maybe mold? |
| 17:54.11 | aeryndunham | hmmmm |
| 17:54.13 | romanovic | haha, yeah. |
| 17:54.17 | aeryndunham | I am allergic to my house I think |
| 17:54.26 | aeryndunham | whenever I go home I'm instantly sniffly; I think that is mold |
| 17:54.37 | romanovic | I read a summary of the latest debate. I'm glad I didn't watch it |
| 17:55.09 | romanovic | as I heard one person say, I don't think not watching it makes me an under-informed voter; I think that having watched it would have made me an overly-informed voter |
| 17:55.56 | aeryndunham | Haha I came back from work last night and my boyfriend wanted to watch it and I begrudingly agreed |
| 17:57.45 | aeryndunham | They actually aired it as a passenger event in a lounge which just seems like the worst idea ever to me |
| 17:58.14 | aeryndunham | let's take a group of strangers, one of the nastiest campaigns in memory, and then add alcohol |
| 17:59.28 | aeryndunham | did not go anywhere near that venue |
| 17:59.47 | romanovic | yeah, vacation time should equal "I'm pretending politics doesn't exist this week" |
| 17:59.52 | aeryndunham | yup |
| 18:00.07 | aeryndunham | I was on a ship for the last election too and it was kinda terrifying |
| 18:00.09 | aeryndunham | how heated stuff got |
| 18:00.38 | aeryndunham | I really enjoy discussing politics on a civilized level. This was not that :p |
| 18:01.25 | aeryndunham | Although last election we were in India so I had to get up at 5:00am to watch results come in |
| 18:09.36 | aeryndunham | .... why did I just try to defend Mormonism in another channel |
| 18:09.38 | aeryndunham | should know better |
| 18:09.45 | aeryndunham | I'm pretty sure I'm right, too, but whatever |
| 18:17.55 | aeryndunham | sighs |
| 18:44.30 | CaptainAndreyasn | what channel? |
| 18:47.02 | aeryndunham | It's a closed channel, but it was a break-off chit-chat channel for a skincare/makeup subreddit I hang out on :p |
| 18:47.16 | aeryndunham | Really nice girls, apparently one is a disgruntled exmo |
| 18:48.14 | CaptainAndreyasn | ah. |
| 18:48.19 | CaptainAndreyasn | what was the debate about? |
| 18:50.09 | aeryndunham | I thought that the 3 gold plate eyewitnesses, despite falling out with Joseph Smith and leaving the church, never recanted their testimony of the book of mormon? |
| 18:50.27 | aeryndunham | I guess I could be wrong |
| 18:50.31 | aeryndunham | but I'm sure I read that somewhere |
| 18:51.16 | aeryndunham | Other girl said that no, they didn't believe any of it |
| 18:52.18 | CaptainAndreyasn | what I know agrees what what you said, but I don't know that as a fact. |
| 18:52.23 | CaptainAndreyasn | it could be urban legend. |
| 18:52.34 | CaptainAndreyasn | would need to look up a source on that. |
| 18:53.24 | Crisco | Bueno, aún de los que salieron, algunos regresaron |
| 18:53.46 | aeryndunham | Yes, some returned as well, I thought |
| 18:54.07 | Crisco | uh yeah |
| 18:54.08 | Crisco | sorry |
| 18:54.28 | Crisco | just stopped talking in Spanish and didn't put myself in English mode again |
| 18:54.35 | aeryndunham | 'Cause, to me, "this guy is a total jerk but I don't take back what I said about the plates" is some pretty strong argument |
| 18:54.45 | aeryndunham | Crisco: haha no worries |
| 18:55.09 | aeryndunham | in favor of BoM authenticity, I mean |
| 18:55.25 | Crisco | Yeah, I mean, people can say what they want about the plates, but that isn't going to change my testimony |
| 18:56.01 | CaptainAndreyasn | http://www.ldsliving.com/What-Happened-to-the-3-Witnesses/s/79341 |
| 18:57.14 | aeryndunham | shall read later |
| 18:57.24 | aeryndunham | Work done in a minute here |
| 18:57.33 | CaptainAndreyasn | according to that article, two came back to the church, and the 3rd posted an article in a newspaper stating that he never recanted his testimony of the book of mormon. |
| 18:58.25 | Crisco | Isn't it wonderful? |
| 18:58.29 | aeryndunham | feels vindicated that she was right |
| 18:58.43 | Crisco | But yeah, just don't worry about online people |
| 18:59.09 | Crisco | I have a friend that is always trying to get me to read atheist/anti-christian websites and books |
| 18:59.16 | CaptainAndreyasn | just fyi... people outside the church may use other sources that may not agree. |
| 18:59.42 | Crisco | I just say thanks, never read them, and continue loving the guy |
| 19:00.33 | CaptainAndreyasn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Witnesses |
| 19:01.52 | CaptainAndreyasn | this article seems to suggest that some say that Martin Harris (the one who didn't come back) has a slightly more complicated story than what is depicted in the ldsliving article, but even so, it shows ample evidence that he didn't deny in the end. |
| 19:46.42 | scottj | CaptainAndreyasn: Martin did come back, it was David who didn't. |
| 19:47.32 | scottj | CaptainAndreyasn: the biggest "evidence" of Martin denying is a letter from Stephen Burnett to Lyman Johnson in 1838 saying that during Kirtland apostasy Martin said he never saw the plates with his natural eyes, only in vision |
| 19:48.09 | scottj | that's misunderstood, he means he didn't see them while working on the translation, only in the one vision where an angel showed them, and David also says you can't see an angel with your natural eyes you have to be transfigured |
| 19:48.45 | scottj | in the same letter where Stephen says Martin said that, he also states that Martin still affirmed the truthfulness of the BOM |
| 19:51.10 | scottj | David Whitmer (1887): "Of course we were in the spirit when we had the view, for no man can behold the face of an angel, except in a spiritual view, but we were in the body also, and everything was as natural to us, as it is at any time." |
| 19:51.55 | scottj | from the same letter that critics use to say Martin denied, "M Harris arose & said he was sorry for any man who rejected the Book of Mormon for he knew it was true" |
| 19:52.46 | scottj | the dying testimonies of the witnesses are worth reading, https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/46nzhx/i_dont_know_if_i_should_become_a_bornagain/d06zsd4 |
| 19:53.00 | scottj | a comment I wrote on this topic with more detail, https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/46nzhx/i_dont_know_if_i_should_become_a_bornagain/d07e9zn |
| 20:15.24 | CaptainAndreyasn | scottj, I saw my mistake afterwards. Sorry. |
| 20:15.39 | CaptainAndreyasn | but since aeryndunham had left, I figured the conversation was over. |
| 20:22.12 | Crisco | finally a job offer |
| 20:22.37 | CaptainAndreyasn | congrats! |
| 20:22.47 | Crisco | Thanks |
| 20:22.56 | CaptainAndreyasn | what position did you get? |
| 20:22.59 | Crisco | these last three weeks have been really boring |
| 20:23.42 | Crisco | I've got an internship at a national laboratory |
| 20:24.55 | Crisco | I mean, it isn't going to be a permanent job, obviously, but it'll be perfect until I start school again in January |
| 20:30.58 | CaptainAndreyasn | that's cool! |
| 20:31.09 | CaptainAndreyasn | internships are great. |
| 20:31.21 | CaptainAndreyasn | my internship at novell is what got me going in linux. |
| 20:39.30 | Crisco | really? |
| 20:39.39 | Crisco | How was it working for Novell? |
| 20:39.54 | Crisco | I don't use SuSE, but I know some people that swear by it |
| 20:39.56 | CaptainAndreyasn | I was there when they purchased suse. |
| 20:40.14 | CaptainAndreyasn | they really encouraged everyone to drop windows and move to linux on their work machines. |
| 20:40.26 | CaptainAndreyasn | I had a couple of coworkers who loved linux, and thought this was awesome. |
| 20:40.41 | CaptainAndreyasn | I knew almost nothing about it, but was interested, so they helped me get my feet wet. |
| 20:40.57 | CaptainAndreyasn | that was like 12 years ago. |
| 20:41.10 | CaptainAndreyasn | I've been using linux ever since. |
| 20:41.24 | CaptainAndreyasn | I moved away from suse to ubuntu awhile ago though. |
| 20:41.37 | Crisco | have you tried other distros since? |
| 20:41.42 | CaptainAndreyasn | I loved suse, but they were reducing the amount of time they would support their free versions. |
| 20:42.04 | CaptainAndreyasn | and ubuntu increased the amount of time they supported their LTS versions |
| 20:42.23 | CaptainAndreyasn | and since I was then working on server, that meant fewer re-installs. |
| 20:42.57 | CaptainAndreyasn | I have had limited exposure to centos, and debian, a little more with gentoo. |
| 20:43.22 | CaptainAndreyasn | debian is a lot like ubuntu, but more stable, fewer packages, and shorter support periods. |
| 20:43.56 | CaptainAndreyasn | for me the exchange supports ubuntu since I really haven't had stability issues with them, and they are really quick to patch security issues when they come out. |
| 20:44.10 | Crisco | I usually use debian on my servers |
| 20:44.22 | Crisco | I once ran a server with Arch Linux, but that didn't turn out too well |
| 20:44.35 | CaptainAndreyasn | haha, no, I wouldn't expect that it would. |
| 20:44.44 | Crisco | So now I just use Arch on my laptop |
| 20:44.49 | Crisco | but Debian on the server |
| 20:45.03 | CaptainAndreyasn | arch is good for personal machines if you are really into linux. |
| 20:45.05 | CaptainAndreyasn | same with gentoo. |
| 20:45.13 | CaptainAndreyasn | but I wouldn't put either of them on a server. |
| 20:45.27 | Crisco | LFS Server Edition! |
| 20:45.52 | CaptainAndreyasn | yup! |
| 20:46.21 | Crisco | Do you have any experience with Android Wear devices? |
| 20:46.33 | CaptainAndreyasn | nope. |
| 20:46.42 | CaptainAndreyasn | I'm a little low tech when it comes to watches. |
| 20:46.52 | Crisco | I'm not sure if I want one |
| 20:46.53 | CaptainAndreyasn | I just bought a self winding watch. :-) |
| 20:47.14 | Crisco | Wow! How much did that end up costing? |
| 20:47.41 | CaptainAndreyasn | we paid about 180 for it. |
| 20:47.53 | Crisco | Dang, that's pretty good |
| 20:48.08 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's fun. |
| 20:48.30 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's definitely counter-culture to go back to a spring and gears type watch in this smart watch era. |
| 20:48.49 | Crisco | (disclaimer: I only know what a self winding watch is because Art of Manliness had an article on the different types of watches) |
| 20:50.02 | CaptainAndreyasn | haha, that's awesome. |
| 20:50.37 | CaptainAndreyasn | I think I got into safety raisers because of them. |
| 20:51.06 | Crisco | I really like Art of Manliness. The content is interesting and useful |
| 20:51.16 | CaptainAndreyasn | agreed. |
| 20:52.02 | CaptainAndreyasn | s/raiser/razor/ |
| 20:52.29 | CaptainAndreyasn | I still have an electric razor, but I like using the safety razor when I have a little extra time. |
| 20:52.54 | Crisco | Which safety razor do you use? |
| 20:52.55 | CaptainAndreyasn | the whole shaving cream / brush thing takes a bit of time. |
| 20:53.12 | CaptainAndreyasn | hmm... I don't remember the brand. |
| 20:54.55 | CaptainAndreyasn | this looks like the kit I got. |
| 20:54.57 | CaptainAndreyasn | https://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Merkur-5-piece-Chrome-Shaving-Set/9664780/product.html?refccid=3OB3SORMW6RYPI2PO3KKXXTXS4&searchidx=4 |
| 20:57.07 | CaptainAndreyasn | as far as the actual blades: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JPMHWK |
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| 21:22.36 | Crisco | have you ever tried using a straight razor? |
| 21:24.28 | CaptainAndreyasn | no, a safety razor is as close as I've got. |
| 22:05.36 | klys | captainandreysan, you work at novell? |
| 22:05.52 | klys | captainandreyasn, rather |
| 22:06.23 | CaptainAndreyasn | no, used to many years ago. |
| 22:06.49 | klys | oh okay, I guess novell has come up against hard times |
| 22:07.09 | klys | not as big as it used to be, or so |
| 22:07.13 | CaptainAndreyasn | well, I was an intern there. I wasn't going to be staying long no matter what |
| 22:07.23 | CaptainAndreyasn | but yes, it has shrunk dramatically |
| 22:07.38 | klys | what do you do today? |
| 22:08.03 | CaptainAndreyasn | data security. |
| 22:08.28 | CaptainAndreyasn | I look for security issues and report them to IT / Dev teams. |
| 22:08.38 | klys | do you think 8.8.8.8 is being used to spy on people? |
| 22:08.57 | CaptainAndreyasn | that's a google DNS, isn't it? |
| 22:09.00 | klys | yeah |
| 22:09.11 | klys | someone was threatening to "expose google" recently |
| 22:09.14 | CaptainAndreyasn | I guess it depends on what you mean by "spy". |
| 22:09.18 | klys | was in a slashdot article |
| 22:09.33 | CaptainAndreyasn | I suspect google collects data from everywhere it can. |
| 22:09.38 | klys | yeah |
| 22:09.42 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's how they make money. |
| 22:09.56 | CaptainAndreyasn | I would personally only call it spying if they were letting the govt in on that data. |
| 22:10.12 | CaptainAndreyasn | otherwise, we are offering that data to them freely if we use their service. |
| 22:10.13 | klys | so what kind of security issues have you come up against recently |
| 22:10.25 | CaptainAndreyasn | oh, nothing exciting. |
| 22:10.40 | CaptainAndreyasn | at the moment, I'm going through AWS best practices, and trying to make sure we follow them. |
| 22:10.50 | klys | what's aws |
| 22:11.01 | CaptainAndreyasn | Amazon's cloud servers. |
| 22:11.06 | klys | o ok |
| 22:11.14 | CaptainAndreyasn | you can rent servers from them, essentially. |
| 22:11.23 | klys | I have an amazon fire tablet, whihch I installed google play on |
| 22:11.40 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's very convenient, but comes with its own security issues. |
| 22:11.44 | CaptainAndreyasn | sounds fun. |
| 22:11.58 | klys | yeah, is it like vps servers, colocation, or just servers they have there? |
| 22:12.10 | CaptainAndreyasn | more like VPS. |
| 22:12.29 | klys | I'm going with digitalocean, they charge like 5/mo. |
| 22:12.41 | CaptainAndreyasn | yeah, amazon is NOT the cheapest. |
| 22:12.45 | CaptainAndreyasn | but that's not my call to make. |
| 22:12.54 | CaptainAndreyasn | I'm just here to make sure we secure whatever we use. |
| 22:13.27 | klys | so eh, do you work on opendns or an amazon dns server? |
| 22:13.42 | klys | j/c. |
| 22:14.05 | klys | probably not |
| 22:14.30 | klys | amazon is supposed to be a gigantic warehouse |
| 22:14.30 | CaptainAndreyasn | I do not work for amazon or opendns. |
| 22:14.40 | CaptainAndreyasn | I have used both google and opendns servers personally. |
| 22:15.05 | CaptainAndreyasn | yeah, they have a pretty cool business model. |
| 22:15.14 | CaptainAndreyasn | what they do is pretty impressive. |
| 22:15.24 | klys | oh, I had my server cracked into by someone from efnet a while back |
| 22:15.41 | klys | had to uninstall their crack and change my passwords |
| 22:15.53 | klys | I still have a copy |
| 22:15.59 | CaptainAndreyasn | when that happens, it's always best to reinstall the whole machine, fyi. |
| 22:16.25 | CaptainAndreyasn | there is always the chance they left something there that you didn't catch. |
| 22:16.50 | klys | well, there hasn't been any nefarious activity since and it has been a while. |
| 22:17.14 | klys | was curious if you would like a copy of it |
| 22:17.23 | CaptainAndreyasn | heh, no, thank you. |
| 22:17.26 | klys | k |
| 22:18.07 | CaptainAndreyasn | it is interesting stuff, but I don't get into that too much. |
| 22:18.37 | CaptainAndreyasn | my job is mostly closing holes, and not so much looking at attacks. |
| 22:18.48 | CaptainAndreyasn | though that might change someday in the future. |
| 22:18.51 | klys | since you work on security, there is probably an application that someone is trying to secure; perhaps an application someone is using for collaboration? do you get into collaboration software or services? |
| 22:19.31 | Crisco | CaptainAndreyasn, so do you work for one company or do you contract out to whoever wants to test their systems? |
| 22:19.36 | CaptainAndreyasn | yes, though I don't have type to look at the code. |
| 22:19.55 | CaptainAndreyasn | there is only one of me, and many programmers... I do what I can, but it's on a higher level. |
| 22:20.02 | CaptainAndreyasn | I work for one company. |
| 22:20.09 | Crisco | Ah, okay |
| 22:20.13 | Crisco | sounds like fun |
| 22:20.18 | klys | I've wrote collaboration software in the past. one of my projects is the hierarchical multi-cursor editor. |
| 22:20.20 | CaptainAndreyasn | I like my job. |
| 22:20.38 | Crisco | It's what I want to do |
| 22:20.52 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's good stuff. |
| 22:20.58 | CaptainAndreyasn | it can be a bit frustrating. |
| 22:21.19 | CaptainAndreyasn | security too often seems to have a low priority here. |
| 22:21.36 | CaptainAndreyasn | so I might be looking elsewhere within the year. |
| 22:21.36 | Crisco | you should see about working for a contacter |
| 22:21.36 | klys | the hmce project is for editing hierarchies of text lines like as a shared edit session. |
| 22:21.51 | Crisco | I know the Idaho National Lab is looking for employees |
| 22:21.56 | klys | sort of like emacsclient combined with org-mode. |
| 22:22.04 | CaptainAndreyasn | interesting. |
| 22:22.40 | CaptainAndreyasn | I have a family, and would like to keep benefits though. Contract jobs can be hard for that. |
| 22:22.44 | Crisco | they made http://www.nexdefense.com/products-and-services/sophia/ as sort of a side project |
| 22:23.19 | CaptainAndreyasn | that's pretty cool. |
| 22:23.19 | Crisco | CaptainAndreyasn, the benefits at the INL are pretty good (my dad works there, but as a microbiologist) |
| 22:23.45 | CaptainAndreyasn | I'm guessing they don't have an office in Utah? :-) |
| 22:23.55 | Crisco | They have a lot of people that work remotely |
| 22:24.21 | Crisco | One guy is in California |
| 22:24.27 | CaptainAndreyasn | cool. |
| 22:24.46 | CaptainAndreyasn | I'll keep them in mind when the time comes. |
| 22:24.48 | Crisco | But no... No office in Utah |
| 22:25.10 | CaptainAndreyasn | at the moment, I think I'll start looking in Jan. |
| 22:25.51 | Crisco | Plus you could get onto cool stuff like the group that analyzed STUXNET |
| 22:26.17 | klys | perhaps you have some pointers to existing collaboration software. do you? |
| 22:27.19 | CaptainAndreyasn | I don't, sorry. |
| 22:27.19 | Crisco | /inl recruitment |
| 22:27.25 | klys | k |
| 22:27.41 | CaptainAndreyasn | I recently got my CISSP, but where I work, I have few tools to work with. |
| 22:27.50 | CaptainAndreyasn | Nessus is the biggest one |
| 22:28.07 | CaptainAndreyasn | we've been asking for more for years, and they have been promised... but they keep pushing us off. |
| 22:29.04 | klys | have you compiled a web browser in recent years? |
| 22:29.45 | Crisco | no |
| 22:29.56 | klys | it sounds like what you're doing with nessus is closely related to browser security |
| 22:30.16 | CaptainAndreyasn | I focus on websites, not browsers. |
| 22:30.25 | klys | thanks |
| 22:30.29 | CaptainAndreyasn | but yes, browser security does come into it a little. |
| 22:30.42 | CaptainAndreyasn | mostly just understanding what features are there. |
| 22:30.56 | CaptainAndreyasn | we had one bug written up and got sent back because the developer couldn't reproduce it. |
| 22:31.12 | Crisco | is my website secure? 127.0.0.1:8080 |
| 22:31.16 | CaptainAndreyasn | but he was only have issues because the browser he was using was blocking it. |
| 22:31.36 | CaptainAndreyasn | haha, 127.0.0.1 is always secure. :-) (Nobody can access that IP but you.) |
| 22:31.46 | CaptainAndreyasn | it's called your "localhost" address. |
| 22:31.56 | Crisco | how about 10.0.01? |
| 22:32.05 | klys | 10.0.01? |
| 22:32.24 | Crisco | 192.168.0.23 |
| 22:32.45 | Crisco | ::1 |
| 22:32.57 | Crisco | klys, local ip address range |
| 22:33.03 | Crisco | 10.x.x.x is always local |
| 22:33.19 | klys | afaik that should go through your router to a network that isn't populated becuase your routers don't cover the region. |
| 22:33.37 | CaptainAndreyasn | that means people on your network can see that IP, but us out here on the internet wouldn't have a chance. |
| 22:34.39 | Crisco | we could try, but if we got a response we'd just end up hitting our own router or another computer on our private network |
| 22:34.56 | klys | 10.0.0.0/8, 169.254.0.0/16, 192.168.x.0/24, are all addresses allocated for private use, yes. |
| 22:35.26 | CaptainAndreyasn | also... |
| 22:35.38 | CaptainAndreyasn | may I just suggest that it may not be wise to put your IP out there? |
| 22:35.57 | CaptainAndreyasn | if you are not certain if it is secure, putting it on IRC isn't the best way to find out. :-) |
| 22:35.59 | klys | and 224.0.0.0/8 is the multicast network, which became stale and stopped selling a great number of years ago |
| 22:38.14 | Crisco | you guys should get some unaffiliated hostmasks then for IRC if you don't want to give your IP out |
| 22:39.04 | klys | well you could always find out via dns |
| 22:40.30 | CaptainAndreyasn | I use an alias IP. It's one I don't mind using for this stuff. |
| 22:41.10 | *** join/##lds aeryndunham (~jacki@172.56.4.207) |
| 22:42.08 | Crisco | I used to have a bnc on a vps with rdns, but decided I'd rather have less people trying to bruteforce the login so I got a vhost on Freenode |
| 22:42.29 | aeryndunham | Evening |
| 22:43.19 | klys | hi |
| 22:44.54 | Bender2 | ×ק××× |
| 22:44.55 | Bender2 | hello |
| 22:45.31 | Crisco | Is that aurebesh? |
| 22:45.53 | Bender2 | lol |
| 22:46.07 | Bender2 | It's hebrew, I had the wrong layout set |
| 22:46.24 | Bender2 | I dont think aurebesh is UTF8 is it? |
| 22:46.32 | Crisco | I wish |
| 22:47.04 | Crisco | that and Tengwar would mean I'd never have to use an alternate font again |
| 22:47.30 | Bender2 | Can you really read those languages? |
| 22:47.46 | Crisco | Tengwar, yes. I never tried Aurebesh |
| 22:47.52 | Bender2 | really |
| 22:47.57 | aeryndunham | that reminds me that I need to add chinese input to my opensuse machine |
| 22:48.00 | Bender2 | can you read other languages? |
| 22:49.06 | Crisco | Well, Tengwar isn't really another language |
| 22:49.40 | Crisco | you can use it to write other languages, but by itself it is just an alphabet |
| 22:50.02 | Crisco | but the Latin alphabet and Tengwar are the only ones that I have much experience with |
| 22:50.07 | Bender2 | that's a bit disappointing |
| 22:50.28 | Crisco | maybe a bit of old english runes |
| 22:50.37 | Bender2 | Didnt the Elvens also have their own language with real grammar? |
| 22:50.54 | Crisco | yeah |
| 22:51.02 | Crisco | I tried learning it before I went on my mission |
| 22:51.27 | Bender2 | what mission? |
| 22:51.32 | Bender2 | are you a spy? |
| 22:51.48 | Crisco | ... |
| 22:52.24 | aeryndunham | wonders where she would have gone on a mission |
| 22:52.39 | Bender2 | Oh a church mission |
| 22:52.46 | Crisco | if you are a woman and unmarried you can still go on one ;) |
| 22:52.59 | Bender2 | Where did you go? |
| 22:53.05 | aeryndunham | is not quite Mormon enough to go on a mission :p |
| 22:53.12 | Crisco | La República Dominicana |
| 22:53.16 | Bender2 | cool |
| 22:53.26 | Bender2 | How did you like that country? |
| 22:53.33 | Crisco | it was hot |
| 22:53.39 | Bender2 | it's really humid isnt it? |
| 22:53.42 | Crisco | but now I'm cold so I miss it |
| 22:53.45 | Bender2 | moist |
| 22:53.50 | Crisco | yeah |
| 22:53.57 | Bender2 | its all jungley? |
| 22:54.06 | Crisco | some parts |
| 22:54.12 | Crisco | I was in the city most of the time |
| 22:54.22 | Bender2 | did you learn spanish? |
| 22:54.51 | Crisco | SÃ |
| 22:54.52 | Bender2 | is it a place you would go to on a vacation? |
| 22:54.57 | Crisco | Definitely |
| 22:55.11 | Bender2 | it's probably cheap too |
| 22:55.46 | Bender2 | did oyu get to explore the jungles? |
| 22:55.48 | Crisco | depends on where you go |
| 22:56.05 | Crisco | the east coast is pretty expensive |
| 22:56.13 | Crisco | if you've ever heard of Punta Cana |
| 22:56.22 | Bender2 | I cant say that I have |
| 22:56.30 | Bender2 | I cant even picture a map of that country in my mind |
| 22:56.58 | Crisco | ah, well sometimes you tell people "I want to the Dominican Republic" and they are like "I don't know what that is. Is it by Punta Cana?" |
| 22:56.58 | Bender2 | it's pretty small isnt it? |
| 22:57.23 | Bender2 | hahah |
| 22:57.47 | scottj | aeryndunham: here's some info I shared after you left about the witnesses topic http://dpaste.com/3W7S1NN#wrap |
| 22:58.16 | Crisco | It isn't too small |
| 22:58.17 | aeryndunham | Thanks! |
| 22:58.18 | Crisco | for an island |
| 22:58.37 | Bender2 | was it recently hit by that devestating storm? |
| 22:58.59 | Crisco | It hit the other side of the island, Haiti |
| 22:59.11 | Crisco | They got some rain, but it wasn't too bad |
| 23:00.26 | Bender2 | Fortunate |
| 23:01.12 | Bender2 | Did you get to explore any of it's jungles? |
| 23:01.17 | Crisco | not really |
| 23:01.21 | Bender2 | Hey scottj hope all is well |
| 23:01.34 | aeryndunham | takes deep breaths and needs patience for work tonight |
| 23:01.38 | Crisco | I never left the capital city except to deliver contracts |
| 23:01.51 | Bender2 | Was it because you were constantly involved in missionary activities? |
| 23:02.49 | Crisco | No, because I was never assigned an area outside the capital |
| 23:03.35 | Bender2 | Interesting |
| 23:03.41 | Bender2 | What sort of activities were you involved here? |
| 23:03.48 | Bender2 | in there* |
| 23:04.10 | Bender2 | I dont think there are many mormons here |
| 23:04.16 | Bender2 | they have a university |
| 23:04.21 | Bender2 | and this impressive church |
| 23:04.30 | Bender2 | I think a lot of them come here to study |
| 23:04.33 | Crisco | where is "here?" |
| 23:04.38 | Bender2 | jerusalem |
| 23:04.46 | Crisco | Ah |
| 23:04.55 | Crisco | https://www.mormon.org/values/missionary-work |
| 23:05.40 | Bender2 | I dont think there are local mormons |
| 23:05.49 | Crisco | probably not |
| 23:05.58 | Bender2 | I think they just come here to study at their University |
| 23:06.09 | Crisco | part of the contract for having the BYU Jerusalem Center is a no-proselyting agreement |
| 23:06.19 | Bender2 | haha yeah |
| 23:06.24 | Bender2 | Jews don't like that |
| 23:06.45 | Crisco | Are you in the Jerusalem Center? |
| 23:06.58 | Bender2 | The mormon center? |
| 23:07.00 | Bender2 | no. |
| 23:07.13 | Bender2 | I'm not mormon, I'm local |
| 23:07.25 | Crisco | Ah, how did you find this channel? |
| 23:07.25 | scottj | Bender2: are any Christian sects allowed to proselytize in Israel? |
| 23:07.48 | Bender2 | scottj, No, the orthodox community will go nuts |
| 23:08.48 | Bender2 | Same for "messianic jews" |
| 23:09.13 | Crisco | I met some messianic jews in the DR |
| 23:10.00 | scottj | Bender2: well it's not new, going at least back to Acts when Peter is told not to proselytize. |
| 23:10.33 | Bender2 | Ok |
| 23:10.44 | Crisco | haha |
| 23:10.49 | Bender2 | it predates peter |
| 23:11.05 | scottj | Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. |
| 23:11.08 | scottj | Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. |
| 23:12.08 | Crisco | So question: how do people use laptops without trackpoint after using one with? |
| 23:12.09 | scottj | Bender2: sure, prohibition on proselytizing other religions, Peter reference was just specifically for Christianity, which I guess attempts to silence Jesus would count there too |
| 23:13.02 | scottj | Crisco: they get used to it. If they have a good trackpad, like some of the Mac ones, it's not much of a sacrifice. If they have a crappy trackpad like on many PCs and many of the ones with trackpoints, then it's a pain |
| 23:13.19 | Crisco | haha |
| 23:13.22 | scottj | Crisco: all my thinkpads with trackpoints have had the worst trackpads |
| 23:13.48 | Crisco | my current one has a pretty decent trackpad |
| 23:13.51 | Crisco | at least I think so |
| 23:14.05 | Crisco | what makes a good trackpad? |
| 23:14.39 | scottj | good accidental touch detection, precise, nice surface, nice buttons, large enough |
| 23:15.28 | scottj | I haven't used recent thinkpads, mine is ~5 years old and the trackpad is horrible, it has bumps on it and cursor moves by more than one pixel (on multiple OSes). Previous thinkpads had tiny trackpads |
| 23:15.54 | aeryndunham | .... people are difficult tonight |
| 23:16.08 | scottj | also accurate detection of scrolling gestures, and not limiting them to a specific region |
| 23:16.32 | romanovic | aeryndunham: how so? |
| 23:17.12 | aeryndunham | romanovic: Spending 20 mins helping people register who get to the "buy a plan" page and leave because they didn't know it wasn't free, people who can't get their laptop connected but refuse to bring it down so I can look at it, etc. |
| 23:18.18 | Bender2 | scottj, there's a ban on incitement to idolatry - and anyone who dues that is sentenced to death - Deuteronomy 13:7 |
| 23:18.25 | Bender2 | does* |
| 23:19.00 | Bender2 | when the LDS applied to build their University in Jerusalem there were major protests by the Haredi community - and the result was that agreement that you mentioned, which is strictly enforced I believe |
| 23:20.40 | scottj | Bender2: my thought is just that LDS wouldn't be able to proselytize in Israel, Jerusalem Center agreement or not |
| 23:20.54 | scottj | so we agreed to something that was already the case |
| 23:21.01 | scottj | no? |
| 23:21.53 | Bender2 | pretty much officially accepting status quo |
| 23:22.12 | Crisco | was it not official before? |
| 23:22.35 | Crisco | Like, could other denominations proselyte but would receive negative responses? |
| 23:23.00 | Bender2 | No they cant, the status quo in the holy land is extremerly sensitive |
| 23:23.03 | Bender2 | especially around jerusalem |
| 23:25.05 | Bender2 | I dont know what were the Mormon church positions prior to the major backlash that resulted from their formal application to build their University |
| 23:25.23 | Crisco | What is the general attitude about the BYU Jerusalem Center now? |
| 23:25.37 | Bender2 | But they had to make explicit assurances to diffuse suspicion |
| 23:26.31 | scottj | I think it was just the LDS reputation for missionaries around the world, not necessarily any negative past in Israel itself |
| 23:26.36 | Bender2 | I think it's fine, as long as this agreement is strictly enforced |
| 23:26.51 | scottj | so they agreed saying yes we are known for proselytizing, but we're not going to do that here |
| 23:26.51 | Bender2 | yep scottj |
| 23:27.38 | scottj | btw I highly recommend the Imax documentary film Jerusalem, it's very scenic and beautifully filmed, available for free on sharing sites |
| 23:27.49 | scottj | granted probably not of interest to Bender2 :) |
| 23:28.18 | Crisco | sharing sites? |
| 23:28.25 | scottj | Crisco: websites where people share |
| 23:28.33 | scottj | media and such |
| 23:28.42 | Crisco | yeah, but like legally or illegally? |
| 23:28.47 | scottj | both |
| 23:29.18 | Crisco | I try not to pirate |
| 23:29.32 | Crisco | s/try not to/don't/ |
| 23:29.57 | aeryndunham | I try not to as well, working on a ship makes it hard |
| 23:30.04 | aeryndunham | if you don't pirate tv, you never see any tv |
| 23:30.54 | scottj | this is the film, maybe it's available on non-free streaming services, idk http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2385006/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2 |
| 23:31.05 | CaptainAndreyasn | there's always sling, and netflix. |
| 23:32.47 | Bender2 | Crisco, the attitudes towards mormons are pretty corrective I guess |
| 23:32.55 | Bender2 | there are no problems with them if that's what you're asking |
| 23:34.27 | scottj | is it like every problem pales in comparison to violent conflict with their subjects in their territories? |
| 23:34.40 | Crisco | haha, it isn't this movie, right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JeruZalem |
| 23:34.41 | scottj | half joking there |
| 23:35.35 | scottj | I realize the characterization/wording is biased/inflamatory, that's the part I was joking about |
| 23:37.31 | romanovic | I just think it's great that Mormons are allowed a center for the purpose of learning, and church expansion doesn't ever enter into it. Judaism and the holy land are kind of foundational for any Christian belief, but especially Mormonism. |
| 23:37.55 | romanovic | I doubt I'll ever have the chance to go there (not a BYU student), but I'd love to spend time in the area some day |
| 23:38.18 | romanovic | married a Jewish girl who is Mormon |
| 23:40.44 | Bender2 | I've never been there |
| 23:41.05 | Bender2 | as a principle I dont visit churches, mosques, or hindu and buddhists temples |
| 23:41.15 | Bender2 | I dont think I've ever been inside a church |
| 23:41.46 | Bender2 | I think the closest thing was probably my visit to the Baha'i gardens |
| 23:41.51 | aeryndunham | I love visiting religious building |
| 23:41.58 | Bender2 | it's very impressive and beautiful |
| 23:42.27 | aeryndunham | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.29 | aeryndunham | dies |
| 23:44.14 | romanovic | haha |
| 23:45.01 | aeryndunham | wants to put up a sign that says 'anyone bragging about technological illiteracy will not be assisted, Have a little self-confidence. |
| 23:45.32 | Crisco | even if you are a BYU student and you are married you can't go |
| 23:45.46 | Crisco | it is only for single students |
| 23:55.18 | romanovic | aeryndunham: do you have the option of enlisting other family members? "tell you what, take your computational device to your niece/grandchild, they can handle 100% of these issues and you won't even need to come back down here" |
| 23:55.32 | aeryndunham | romanovic: They aren't typically traveling with them |
| 23:55.52 | aeryndunham | romanovic: In fact they are typically buying these plans so they can stay in touc with these kids/grandkids |
| 23:56.06 | aeryndunham | we get very few kids here |