| 06:36.54 | *** join/##lds infobot (ibot@69-58-76-73.ut.vivintwireless.net) |
| 06:36.54 | *** topic/##lds is Unofficial discussion about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ie: Mormon http://lds.org http://mormon.org http://tech.lds.org http://tech.lds.org/forum http://familysearch.org | This channel is logged publicly on http://infobot.rikers.org/%23%23lds/ | See also #utah and #ldstech |
| 06:36.54 | *** mode/##lds [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 14:06.12 | *** join/##lds resplin (~richard@greendragon.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 14:10.02 | *** join/##lds wad (~wad@192.41.76.4) |
| 14:54.22 | *** join/##lds noiro (~noiro@2601:cd:301:a660:c8f2:243c:594d:5530) |
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| 15:00.18 | noiro | Is anyone on? |
| 15:10.26 | jsmith | noiro: I'm in and out today |
| 15:10.35 | jsmith | noiro: If you have a question or comment, just shout it out :-) |
| 15:13.22 | noiro | ahh ok. What is the LDS's view on transgender people? |
| 15:13.48 | resplin | noiro: http://mormonsandgays.org/ |
| 15:14.18 | noiro | trans isn't gay lol |
| 15:14.39 | resplin | Well, that link doesn't actually have as much on transgender as I expected. |
| 15:14.52 | resplin | Yes, I realize that. But I thought it was addressed there. Sorry. |
| 15:15.04 | resplin | But the principles are the same. |
| 15:15.44 | resplin | We love all people. That is Christ's mandate. But God also has given commandments about how we use our procreative power and what our roles are in the gender we have been assigned in this life. |
| 15:17.16 | noiro | What if a trans person has no intention of procreation and is doing it because they'd ultimately have committed suicide otherwise? I mean, I'm not sure if I totally agree on the gay topic but that at least can make some sense, but I've seen far too many people try to fight themselves and lose when they were trans and ultimately it ends in them dying or transitioning. |
| 15:17.26 | resplin | Here is the link I was looking for: http://blog.fairmormon.org/2015/05/19/riseup-podcast-dealing-with-gender-dysphoria-finding-inner-peace-through-christ/ |
| 15:17.54 | resplin | That is one LDS person's story about how he deals with his gender dysphoria. |
| 15:18.01 | resplin | It is obviously not church policy. |
| 15:18.28 | resplin | But suicide vs transitioning are not the only options. The hope is that we as a community can provide adequate support to someone in their trials. |
| 15:18.59 | resplin | But of course mortality is complicated. We can't judge others because we don't understand the extent of their trials. |
| 15:21.05 | noiro | So the LDS opinion is 'pray enough and you'll be fine'? |
| 15:21.24 | resplin | I think that is a simplistic view. |
| 15:21.30 | resplin | There isn't much by way of Church policy on this matter. But our doctrine is that specific genders have specific role's in God's plan. Under current policy, people who choose to reassign their gender can't fulfill those roles. |
| 15:21.45 | resplin | But we also believe that we can endure any trial through the strength of Jesus Christ. |
| 15:22.36 | resplin | Someone else might have more to contribute to this discussion, but those are the resources I have. |
| 15:23.50 | resplin | And it isn't theoretical in my family. I have family members who struggle in this way. We love them and support them. But I also have seen the consequences of how they have chosen to deal with their challenge. |
| 15:23.52 | noiro | What about the neurological research proving brain dimorphism among transgender people and how their physical structure aligns more closely with the identified gender? I know there's not a lot of belief on the topic, but I"m kind of disappointed that the view is to force them to try to push it down and ignore it. I feel it's a medical issue that requires medical intervention, much like how you wouldn't tell a diabetic that insulin was evi |
| 15:23.52 | noiro | l. |
| 15:24.33 | resplin | No one said "push it down and ignore it". You should read that article. |
| 15:25.02 | noiro | I read it to its entirety. It simply was "Do music, marry th eopposite sex and struggle with it daily because God doesn't make mistakes" |
| 15:26.36 | resplin | God gives us challenges for a reason. We often don't understand the reason. That person found ways to cope that work for him. No one is denying that there can be a biological component in many cases, or that it is a daily struggle that can't be ignored. |
| 15:26.45 | noiro | I apologize for the strength in my words but I've seen too many nearly die from this and heard of many who have, and it upsets me to hear it's being approached in this way. |
| 15:26.51 | resplin | Well, I'm not denying it anyway. |
| 15:27.17 | resplin | Yeah, I can understand why it would be upsetting. But that's the only answer to the question that I have. |
| 15:27.33 | resplin | Someone else might have more information. |
| 15:27.38 | noiro | Isn't it possible that their challenge is to transition to better serve God and spend the time serving Him they would have spent unable to get out of bed most days due to depression? |
| 15:28.27 | resplin | But in my experience, most of the problems are due to society not being very accepting or supportive of the person with the challenges. The brother in the article was very fortunate to be led to a wife that can give him strength. |
| 15:28.42 | noiro | I'll be honest and say that I weirdly have an interest in the lds belief but I"m also transgender and have been on hormone replacement for quite some time. So to hear it being addressed this way kind of hits home. |
| 15:28.42 | resplin | That's where we need to improve as a community. |
| 15:29.30 | noiro | Dysphoria is a diagnosis that I feel is better treated by letting them transition, people being unaccepting is certianly a problem, be it in transitioning or not |
| 15:30.03 | resplin | I think a lot of time people get in to binary thinking, limiting their options. God has a way of opening doors, giving strength, and showing solutions. |
| 15:30.24 | resplin | But the further down the path to transitioning that someone goes, the harder it is to choose other paths. That has been the experience in my family. |
| 15:30.58 | noiro | Eh, I tried the whole begging God to do something about it, I tried going headfirst into sports and having a girlfriend, ultimately, I just broke down and threw it all away and found I can function far better this way. |
| 15:31.35 | resplin | Begging God to remove the trial rarely yields the desired results. |
| 15:31.48 | resplin | But God can help us find meaning and purpose in our trials, and strength. |
| 15:31.58 | noiro | The trial will kill you. Some things can't be overcome through the ways people like |
| 15:32.16 | resplin | But I wish you guidance and success in your life. I don't want to minimize the challenge you face. And I'm glad you didn't follow the path of suicide. |
| 15:34.01 | noiro | I would like to tell you that I'm now legally recognized as female, have a incredibly loving boyfriend who is my biggest support network, no, he's not gay, and I function in a far more healthy manner compared to back then. I still feel I'm a better servant to God this way than dead, and I feel no remorse for my actions in regard to this. It's the one thing I can't repent for as I'd do it all over again if I had to. |
| 15:35.41 | resplin | I'm glad you found good companionship in your life. That's a valuable thing. |
| 15:36.41 | noiro | It does upset me that although I've maintained my faith, that many view this as something to fight than accept. Transition is also a trail and requires strength. If your relatives are struggling, I feel they do require support, transition or not, it just pains me that I'll always be labeled either a sinner or a man in faiths. |
| 15:39.00 | noiro | I don't struggle with what I've done or my identity, I struggle with how no matter what happens, I either have to lie or accept that the actions which brought my ability to function in society are those which grant me judgement and unworthy to anyone. |
| 15:39.41 | resplin | I don't think it's a question of judgment or worthiness. |
| 15:40.39 | resplin | God wants to bless us, and His guidance is to guide us toward those blessings. Going our own way might alleviate a trial, but we will miss out on the blessing that required the trial to obtain. |
| 15:41.51 | resplin | That's how I understand trials like this. Others might see it differently. I regret that so many people judge you for your actions. |
| 15:42.21 | resplin | Anyway, it is an interesting conversation. I'm glad you joined our channel, and hope that you hang around. |
| 15:42.26 | resplin | I should probably get back to work. |
| 15:42.44 | noiro | Thank you for talking to me :) |
| 15:42.48 | resplin | My pleasure. |
| 15:44.27 | noiro | I will say in my view that I've recieved more than enough in the way of blessings :) I don't feel like I missed out on much, I do wish I had been born biologically correct to begin with, however. |
| 16:49.00 | *** join/##lds resplin (~richard@greendragon.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 22:25.27 | klys | https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng |
| 22:33.17 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ex/20.2-6?lang=eng#primary |
| 22:49.32 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/14.15-19?lang=eng#14 |
| 22:49.38 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/13.19-24?lang=eng#18 |
| 22:49.48 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/12.3,8?lang=eng#2 |
| 22:54.20 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/18.15,18-19,21?lang=eng#14 |
| 22:54.50 | klys | https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11.28-29?lang=eng#25 |