| 00:11.36 | *** part/##ducleague tokimi (n=toki@bernini.phys.washington.edu) |
| 00:29.25 | *** join/##ducleague SportChick (n=SportChi@69-167-25-130.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 00:29.26 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 01:38.23 | *** join/##ducleague codergeek42_ (n=peter@gentoo/developer/codergeek42) |
| 01:52.54 | *** join/##ducleague longhair (n=longhair@pool-71-254-114-138.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:10.20 | *** join/##ducleague Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 03:10.20 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o Pimpi] by ChanServ |
| 04:06.17 | *** join/##ducleague triclops_ (n=triclops@124-168-30-4.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:03.08 | *** join/##ducleague [dmp]_ (n=dennis@koderen.dk) |
| 05:20.33 | *** join/##ducleague deprecated (n=deprecat@24.18.18.191) |
| 05:20.33 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v deprecated] by irc.freenode.net |
| 06:43.19 | *** join/##ducleague Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i538794F7.versanet.de) |
| 06:51.32 | *** join/##ducleague Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 07:12.44 | *** join/##ducleague wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-160-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:54.07 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o [dmp]] by ChanServ |
| 08:46.56 | *** join/##ducleague Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 08:59.57 | *** join/##ducleague Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i53879707.versanet.de) |
| 09:04.18 | *** join/##ducleague |zongo| (n=zongo@131.152.42.89) |
| 09:07.31 | *** join/##ducleague quantumdot (n=Juan@desorden.ifca.unican.es) |
| 09:07.31 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o quantumdot] by ChanServ |
| 09:10.21 | *** mode/##ducleague [+vvvv Blue_Eyes longhair Thonolan wizart] by [dmp] |
| 09:10.21 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v |zongo|] by [dmp] |
| 10:00.52 | *** join/##ducleague [suave] (n=totte@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:10.32 | *** join/##ducleague Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D912.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:53.20 | |zongo| | wow there's a official game on 59998 :O) |
| 11:53.34 | |zongo| | root is playing ;) |
| 12:15.47 | Admirarch | I saw him play yesterday |
| 12:15.55 | Admirarch | It's nice to see |
| 12:38.26 | *** join/##ducleague LePoulpe303 (n=olivier@AMontpellier-157-1-114-2.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:38.59 | LePoulpe303 | tcha tchabada tchabadabadi |
| 12:39.55 | CBG | ahoy hoy LePoulpe303 |
| 12:40.54 | CBG | Last one was this morning, was 2 hours, I finished in one and did some shopping in town :D |
| 12:42.09 | [dmp] | :) |
| 12:42.12 | LePoulpe303 | smells holidays |
| 12:43.02 | [dmp] | i need to get my article tomorrow, and then prepare a presentation of it, and my own project |
| 12:43.42 | CBG | eh |
| 12:43.52 | LePoulpe303 | [dmp]: i propose "Lobotomy by Soccer : myth or reality" |
| 12:43.54 | [dmp] | i got 7 days for that |
| 12:44.00 | *** join/##ducleague SportChick (n=SportChi@69-167-25-130.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 12:44.02 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 12:44.15 | [dmp] | they decide which article i get :) |
| 12:44.37 | LePoulpe303 | oh sad |
| 12:48.44 | *** mode/##ducleague [+vv [suave] LePoulpe303] by SportChick |
| 12:49.05 | LePoulpe303 | thanks SportChick :) |
| 12:49.16 | SportChick | LePoulpe303: np |
| 12:50.02 | [suave] | ty sporty :) |
| 12:50.13 | SportChick | [suave]: not a problem |
| 13:00.55 | *** join/##ducleague conanhome (n=conan@190.48.6.90) |
| 13:01.23 | SportChick | hey conan |
| 13:12.12 | *** join/##ducleague CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:14.54 | conanhome | SportChick: heya |
| 13:15.35 | SportChick | conanhome: you should identify :p |
| 13:15.37 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v CBG] by SportChick |
| 13:15.59 | conanhome | SportChick: nah |
| 13:16.07 | conanhome | SportChick: i will leave soon freenode |
| 13:16.08 | LePoulpe303 | conanhome: what bout your jabber bot project ? |
| 13:17.09 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: the server which runs it has added another services which have more priority. We were low on memory so it was swapping all the time. Until an upgrade occurs we have put down all services with low priority |
| 13:17.30 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: a pitty, since because that i have not added new funcionality i have in mind. |
| 13:17.40 | LePoulpe303 | that was a great idea |
| 13:17.45 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: it's like i don't wanna work on the bot if it will not run |
| 13:18.48 | LePoulpe303 | i was thinking about something to alert when mates are online , and finally i had an idea ; when i clearly looked at it i said : that is conan's bot ! |
| 13:19.14 | LePoulpe303 | first i wanted to make a gaim plugin |
| 13:19.42 | LePoulpe303 | but its so much better to have a jabber bot ! |
| 13:20.16 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: anyway, the source code is available on the page. If you wanna put it up somewhere, you are free to do it. |
| 13:20.36 | SportChick | conanhome: why's that (you leaving freenode)? |
| 13:20.41 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: like we said before, the idea is not to have many bots running around the world, but at least have one! |
| 13:21.20 | LePoulpe303 | conanhome: of course |
| 13:21.22 | conanhome | SportChick: i dislike freenode and its identification policies |
| 13:21.34 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: do you recall the link? |
| 13:21.35 | SportChick | conanhome: ah, ok |
| 13:21.47 | SportChick | conanhome: I rarely see you playing bz anymore - have you been busy? |
| 13:22.50 | conanhome | SportChick: the initial rush has pass along, so i'm using my working hours to work. ;) |
| 13:23.06 | SportChick | ewwwww |
| 13:23.08 | LePoulpe303 | conanhome: nope ; no brain inside |
| 13:23.14 | conanhome | SportChick: were talking of this with sussi a couples of days ago... |
| 13:24.55 | conanhome | SportChick: and the conclusion was: i'm still available for playing, but i can't manage to find ppl when i'm available. For example in some minutes i got to go. |
| 13:25.07 | SportChick | conanhome: I see |
| 13:25.10 | conanhome | LePoulpe303: http://www.lugmen.org.ar/~p10n/sources/conan/bzcom/doc/ |
| 13:25.21 | SportChick | conanhome: in lieu of your bot, have you tried using strayer's? |
| 13:25.33 | SportChick | I like his league finder |
| 13:26.30 | conanhome | SportChick: don't know no strayer, what is it? a web page? |
| 13:26.40 | SportChick | yes, one moment |
| 13:26.53 | SportChick | http://bzstats.strayer.de/leagues/ducati/?lang=en |
| 13:27.05 | SportChick | strayer is a player |
| 13:27.12 | SportChick | but he's done a great job with that website |
| 13:27.25 | conanhome | SportChick: well there are plenty of those. The thing is none of them could do what my bot does. |
| 13:28.00 | conanhome | SportChick: they are web pages! can't call you back :) |
| 13:28.01 | SportChick | conanhome: yes, but as you said, your bot is down because of the server issue |
| 13:28.14 | SportChick | have you read the posts on bzbb lately? |
| 13:28.59 | SportChick | I think dmp's idea is a nice one... |
| 13:29.13 | SportChick | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8200#83454 |
| 13:30.48 | [dmp] | I've been chatting with strayer. We'll try to integrate GPS directly into his site and make his site work as GPS homepage |
| 13:31.06 | [dmp] | this will be our first step in the grand takeover plan :) |
| 13:31.10 | CBG | :D |
| 13:31.25 | CBG | step 2 is: world domination. ;) |
| 13:31.54 | [dmp] | yeah :) |
| 13:32.39 | [dmp] | strayer is trying to get his professor to accept that he work (and document) on bzstats as his bachelor work |
| 13:32.54 | CBG | hehe |
| 13:38.46 | conanhome | nice :) |
| 13:40.39 | SportChick | [dmp]: cool!! |
| 13:40.47 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v [dmp]] by SportChick |
| 13:45.30 | conanhome | SportChick: is a pain in the ass to have to read the post via web. |
| 13:45.53 | SportChick | then don't :) |
| 13:48.10 | conanhome | [dmp]: interesting that gps stuff, gonna look it when i came back |
| 13:48.13 | conanhome | cu all |
| 13:48.22 | [dmp] | cu |
| 13:49.54 | *** join/##ducleague AlexandrTheGreat (n=ATG@pool-71-242-112-62.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:07.51 | LePoulpe303 | Hi AlexandrTheGreat ! |
| 14:10.03 | *** mode/##ducleague [+vv conanhome AlexandrTheGreat] by [dmp] |
| 14:17.14 | LePoulpe303 | i've decided to order that for my birthday http://images.tomshardware.com/2004/03/06/game_controller/n52unit.jpg |
| 14:18.34 | SportChick | what is it? |
| 14:19.22 | LePoulpe303 | hardcore gamer keyboard |
| 14:20.17 | LePoulpe303 | it's good to feel 15 years old when you're more than the double :) |
| 14:20.40 | LePoulpe303 | http://www.twitchguru.com/2004/03/06/game_controller/index.html |
| 14:20.46 | AlexandrTheGreat | oh, hello LePoulpe :) |
| 14:21.28 | LePoulpe303 | hey AlexandrTheGreat ! Is there a way to be reg'ed to FF training server when you're not from FF ? |
| 14:22.26 | AlexandrTheGreat | only if longdon adds you to the list :) |
| 14:24.50 | LePoulpe303 | AlexandrTheGreat: I will tell him i'll never be in FF ; this should set is mind at rest and convince him :) |
| 14:26.01 | AlexandrTheGreat | hhe |
| 14:26.27 | AlexandrTheGreat | you want to join our practices huh? |
| 14:27.51 | LePoulpe303 | nope |
| 14:28.16 | LePoulpe303 | the other day you were 3 having fun ; i could have join to play the "mobile target" role :) |
| 14:29.00 | LePoulpe303 | and that's frustrating to join and not even speak :) |
| 14:29.39 | LePoulpe303 | i'm a gabber you know :) |
| 14:30.15 | AlexandrTheGreat | lots of people stop in and want to play |
| 14:30.30 | AlexandrTheGreat | we move higher on the public list |
| 14:30.37 | AlexandrTheGreat | usually that server is dead last |
| 14:31.00 | LePoulpe303 | i don't want to cause problems |
| 14:31.10 | AlexandrTheGreat | oh, you won't |
| 14:31.21 | AlexandrTheGreat | longdon is too stubborn to let you in :) |
| 14:32.59 | LePoulpe303 | Ctrl + C |
| 14:33.09 | LePoulpe303 | "(16:31:21) AlexandrTheGreat: longdon is too stubborn to let you in " |
| 14:33.18 | LePoulpe303 | :D |
| 14:34.21 | LePoulpe303 | no prob ; it's just that coincoin is a good bzfriend of mine ; i like to play with/against him when i can |
| 14:34.53 | AlexandrTheGreat | yeah, coin is great |
| 14:35.01 | AlexandrTheGreat | he gave me my french name |
| 14:43.42 | LePoulpe303 | where are u from ? |
| 14:44.53 | *** join/##ducleague |zongo| (n=zongo@170.91.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 14:44.53 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v |zongo|] by [dmp] |
| 14:46.04 | LePoulpe303 | (and don't reply me : macdeonia :) ) |
| 14:46.15 | LePoulpe303 | macedonia sry |
| 14:47.45 | AlexandrTheGreat | oh, sorry, i was away |
| 14:47.49 | AlexandrTheGreat | i am from macedonia |
| 14:48.05 | LePoulpe303 | :D |
| 14:48.11 | AlexandrTheGreat | formerly known as Pennsylvania, USA |
| 14:48.22 | LePoulpe303 | wow long long time ago then |
| 14:48.22 | AlexandrTheGreat | philadelphia |
| 14:48.25 | AlexandrTheGreat | oh yes |
| 14:48.33 | LePoulpe303 | pangee and panthalassa |
| 14:48.47 | AlexandrTheGreat | yes, i know them well |
| 14:49.41 | LePoulpe303 | the real alexander was macedionian , no ? any history geek there to confirm ? |
| 14:50.03 | AlexandrTheGreat | i think he was philadelphian |
| 14:50.04 | *** join/##ducleague tokimi (n=toki@leonardo.phys.washington.edu) |
| 14:50.04 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v tokimi] by [dmp] |
| 14:50.08 | LePoulpe303 | lol |
| 14:50.10 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o tokimi] by ChanServ |
| 14:50.18 | LePoulpe303 | by his mother maybe |
| 14:50.19 | *** join/##ducleague TheRedBaron (n=trb@koderen.dk) |
| 14:50.19 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v TheRedBaron] by [dmp] |
| 14:50.52 | TheRedBaron | oh yay |
| 14:51.30 | LePoulpe303 | TheRedBaron: like taxes : give before they take |
| 14:52.47 | TheRedBaron | oh ug |
| 15:04.20 | *** join/##ducleague Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host85-219.pool872.interbusiness.it) |
| 15:04.20 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Blue_Eyes] by [dmp] |
| 15:05.40 | LePoulpe303 | ok let's fire a few bullets |
| 15:05.56 | LePoulpe303 | die-spawn-die-spawn |
| 15:36.15 | *** join/##ducleague _sussi (n=su@217-68-173-179.dynamic.primacom.net) |
| 15:36.15 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v _sussi] by [dmp] |
| 15:36.15 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v _sussi] by ChanServ |
| 15:36.33 | _sussi | hey |
| 15:36.47 | _sussi | any team up for a match?! |
| 15:50.37 | _sussi | TLZ, BAr and vbz has 1 player online |
| 15:52.28 | *** join/##ducleague Birdie (n=Birdie__@d51A46D91.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:52.28 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Birdie] by [dmp] |
| 15:52.29 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o Birdie] by ChanServ |
| 15:53.45 | Birdie | how to read botmail? |
| 15:55.59 | [dmp] | If i code on GPS, am I then geocaching? :) |
| 15:59.24 | CBG | I am against this GPS! I don't want meacan spying on me! |
| 16:00.10 | [suave] | what about me spying on you, CBG? :P |
| 16:00.33 | CBG | [suave]: oh, that is fine. |
| 16:00.49 | CBG | meacan: yay. now you cannot spy on me!.... right? :| |
| 16:00.58 | [suave] | hehehe :) |
| 16:02.11 | [dmp] | CBG: "Nope" |
| 16:02.12 | [dmp] | :) |
| 16:02.28 | CBG | aww! :( |
| 16:02.43 | [dmp] | currently, the new server do nothings, except store that you join a server |
| 16:02.48 | [dmp] | everything else is ignore |
| 16:02.52 | [dmp] | not much fun spying on |
| 16:03.42 | CBG | for all I know, you could make that plugin send my IP to you, then you would search my IP on the internet, find all the sites I visit and where I live, etc |
| 16:03.53 | CBG | oh, wait.... /whois shows IPs right? :P |
| 16:04.01 | [dmp] | Nah, I'll just ask google :) |
| 16:05.06 | CBG | oh no! |
| 16:07.17 | TheRedBaron | ~lart brad |
| 16:07.36 | brad | ~lart TheRedBaron |
| 16:07.37 | CBG | ~lartbrad |
| 16:07.39 | jbot | ACTION chews brad up, spits him out and walks all over him. |
| 16:07.41 | brad | ~lartcbg |
| 16:07.42 | jbot | ACTION shoves a crumpet down CBG's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
| 16:07.45 | CBG | :D |
| 16:07.54 | brad | ~factinfo lartcbg |
| 16:07.54 | jbot | lartcbg -- created by brad2901 <i=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901> at Sat Feb 11 22:47:47 2006 (122 days); it has been requested 20 times, last by brad, 12s ago. |
| 16:08.02 | brad | ~factinfo lartbrad |
| 16:08.02 | jbot | lartbrad -- created by CBG <n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust130.cdif.cable.ntl.com> at Sat Feb 11 22:55:27 2006 (122 days); it has been requested 29 times, last by CBG, 23s ago. |
| 16:08.07 | brad | hrm |
| 16:09.05 | TheRedBaron | hrm |
| 16:09.15 | TheRedBaron | larting brad seem to be more popular than larting cbg |
| 16:09.22 | brad | yeah, odd. |
| 16:09.41 | brad | ~factinfo lart |
| 16:09.41 | jbot | lart -- created by RoyK <~roy@110.80-203-29.nextgentel.com> at Tue Nov 30 10:02:22 2004 (561 days); it has been requested 14 times, last by Cair at Fri Dec 2 18:04:46 2005. |
| 16:10.17 | TheRedBaron | ~lartcbg |
| 16:10.18 | jbot | ACTION shoves a crumpet down CBG's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
| 16:11.08 | CBG | ~lartbrad |
| 16:11.09 | jbot | ACTION chews brad up, spits him out and walks all over him. |
| 16:12.14 | TheRedBaron | ug |
| 16:12.38 | CBG | muahahaha |
| 16:41.19 | *** join/##ducleague quantumdot (n=Juan@desorden.ifca.unican.es) |
| 16:41.19 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o quantumdot] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.20 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v quantumdot] by [dmp] |
| 16:41.53 | *** part/##ducleague quantumdot (n=Juan@desorden.ifca.unican.es) |
| 16:42.41 | *** join/##ducleague quantumdot (n=Juan@desorden.ifca.unican.es) |
| 16:42.41 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o quantumdot] by ChanServ |
| 16:42.41 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v quantumdot] by [dmp] |
| 17:33.25 | *** part/##ducleague quantumdot (n=Juan@desorden.ifca.unican.es) |
| 17:42.55 | *** join/##ducleague Xe11 (n=Xell@p548752FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:42.55 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Xe11] by [dmp] |
| 18:16.10 | *** join/##ducleague Blue-Eyes (n=Blue@host85-219.pool872.interbusiness.it) |
| 18:16.10 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Blue-Eyes] by [dmp] |
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| 18:26.35 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Blue_Eyes] by [dmp] |
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| 18:59.53 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Blue-Eyes] by [dmp] |
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| 20:30.54 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v BlueEyes] by [dmp] |
| 21:14.20 | *** join/##ducleague Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i538799B1.versanet.de) |
| 21:14.20 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Thonolan] by [dmp] |
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| 21:16.40 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v BlueEyes] by [dmp] |
| 21:18.47 | *** join/##ducleague Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host241-219.pool870.interbusiness.it) |
| 21:18.47 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v Blue_Eyes] by [dmp] |
| 21:23.36 | *** join/##ducleague conanhome (n=conan@190.48.37.220) |
| 21:23.36 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v conanhome] by [dmp] |
| 21:25.34 | *** join/##ducleague sussi (n=su@217-68-173-179.dynamic.primacom.net) |
| 21:25.34 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v sussi] by ChanServ |
| 21:25.35 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v sussi] by [dmp] |
| 21:28.12 | sussi | birdie: just to make it clearer. if we dont have a personal ELO and the ladder, if the teamsite state prehaps teamELO 1200 player A +10, player B -100 |
| 21:28.26 | sussi | thats from the present teamELO |
| 21:29.54 | Birdie | i dont know if i fully got you there.. |
| 21:30.15 | sussi | my thought |
| 21:30.19 | Birdie | the ELO now |
| 21:30.27 | Birdie | you are referring to make one for the players |
| 21:30.33 | Birdie | and start for every player on 1200? |
| 21:30.37 | sussi | first understand dmp's idea |
| 21:31.24 | sussi | the strenghts is different if not the standard player batteling |
| 21:31.38 | sussi | thatswhy the personal ELO |
| 21:32.22 | SportyGal | keep in mind that dmp's idea was to calculate TEAM ELO by using a compilation of personal ELOs |
| 21:32.24 | sussi | just to assume the teamELO is higher or lower , depends who is actual playing |
| 21:32.38 | sussi | we are a step further |
| 21:32.56 | Birdie | sportygal: indeed, and thats the part i dont like |
| 21:33.02 | SportyGal | Birdie: yes, I know :) |
| 21:33.07 | sussi | the point against is the ladder (as a consequense) is not wanted again |
| 21:33.34 | sussi | the teamELO could be untouched |
| 21:34.05 | Birdie | if teamELO could be untouched, why adding one for players than? |
| 21:34.21 | Birdie | i doubt some are interested to see "how good or how bad" they are in a team |
| 21:34.35 | Thonolan | Birdie: i agree |
| 21:34.40 | Thonolan | :) |
| 21:34.43 | Thonolan | hello |
| 21:34.47 | Birdie | you are as "one" on a teamgame, not as individuals |
| 21:34.49 | Birdie | hello thonolan |
| 21:35.00 | Birdie | (one = referring every one of the team together) |
| 21:35.38 | sussi | to the sample- average teanELO would be 1155 <- thats the 1 what is going into the +-point calculation |
| 21:35.47 | sussi | wait the second |
| 21:36.06 | sussi | than add the result to the teamELO |
| 21:36.51 | sussi | the difference is: that if a newby playes , the team could get more points |
| 21:37.11 | sussi | or lose few points |
| 21:37.14 | Birdie | understood, but the disadvantages of that system is a lot bigger than the advantage(s) |
| 21:37.18 | sussi | its still a team thing |
| 21:37.46 | sussi | a valid argument against is: not KISS |
| 21:37.57 | Birdie | kiss? |
| 21:38.09 | sussi | keep it simple and stupid |
| 21:38.24 | Birdie | well i keep it simple.. |
| 21:38.42 | Birdie | and i think keeping things simple is still the best |
| 21:38.52 | Birdie | of course i can be wrong, but you will have to prove me that |
| 21:39.02 | [dmp] | as i see it, the current rating isnt doing much good |
| 21:39.02 | sussi | advantage it shows where the player is in relation to his team |
| 21:39.21 | Thonolan | so you have an teamintern ranking too ? |
| 21:39.33 | [dmp] | only if players with similar skills join same team, it makes sense. But we want to have new join too, right? |
| 21:40.01 | Birdie | but do you really think players are waiting for individual information about players in a teamsport? |
| 21:40.06 | sussi | it will show how a individual develop in relation to his team |
| 21:40.16 | Thonolan | that made sense ? |
| 21:40.24 | Thonolan | you have different players |
| 21:40.25 | [dmp] | not for me :\ |
| 21:40.38 | Thonolan | a few are very good in defense |
| 21:40.48 | Thonolan | a few are cool runner for flags |
| 21:41.00 | [dmp] | yes? |
| 21:41.09 | [dmp] | they have different roles/strengths |
| 21:41.10 | SportyGal | what about using an interim or delayed ranking for new teams, rather than changing current ELO to player-based |
| 21:41.27 | sussi | still i think the league could need some statistics |
| 21:41.30 | Birdie | sportygal: explain that ranking what you mean? |
| 21:41.43 | [dmp] | Birdie: what did you mean? |
| 21:41.50 | sussi | yeah, is it the rookie idea? |
| 21:41.52 | SportyGal | currently, new teams come in with an automatic 1200 ELO |
| 21:42.01 | SportyGal | which is at times, much too high, or much too low. |
| 21:42.06 | Birdie | dmp: to my last comment? |
| 21:42.15 | [dmp] | Birdie: "but do you really think players are waiting" ... |
| 21:42.19 | Birdie | ah |
| 21:42.41 | Birdie | i meaned, that in my eyes, people of this league arent really waiting for statistics about players individual on a ctf team |
| 21:42.54 | Thonolan | i agree |
| 21:43.02 | SportyGal | Chestal has suggested the idea of having new teams not be assigned an ELO until they have played a few matches - then their ELO could be properly estimated (and perhaps retroactively applied) |
| 21:43.05 | [dmp] | SportyGal: delayed ranking will only solve for new teams. Older teams, like BZI, will still have a broken rating |
| 21:43.12 | SportyGal | [dmp]: yes |
| 21:43.20 | sussi | i say statistic .not only ladder |
| 21:43.35 | [dmp] | Birdie: so? This is just a bi-product of the rating. It could be kept hidden for all I care |
| 21:43.40 | longhair | Sounds like a provisional rating in Chess you start at 1200, but only after a dozen or so matches does your rating become "actual" |
| 21:43.43 | CBG | BZI ranking is broken? o.O |
| 21:43.50 | Thonolan | a statistic brings more fun ? |
| 21:43.59 | Birdie | dmp: so you mean you want to make something about every player, but would hide it from them?:s |
| 21:43.59 | Thonolan | i doubt that |
| 21:44.00 | SportyGal | assuming we were to seriously look at/implement a player-based ELO system, how would we do so in a way that does not discourage teamplay? |
| 21:44.01 | longhair | Thonolan: a word: baseball |
| 21:44.17 | Thonolan | yes ? |
| 21:44.30 | [dmp] | CBG: BZI got two setups. The "teachers" and the "newbies" .. We should at least have two different scores, if a teamscore should make sense, depending on who plays |
| 21:44.45 | CBG | I see meacan |
| 21:44.48 | Birdie | sportygal: indeed, some players might care more about their individual skill than (we have 1vs1 league for that) |
| 21:44.53 | longhair | A good portion of baseball fans are VERY into looking at statistics about everythign involved in the game. |
| 21:45.02 | Birdie | than teamplay* |
| 21:45.07 | [dmp] | Birdie: If that is the only problem people see, yes |
| 21:45.18 | sussi | statistic is also: when joned, played first match, won first match.... highwatermarking low..., team change...and and and |
| 21:45.20 | Birdie | well i disagree with that thought |
| 21:45.25 | [dmp] | Birdie: this isnt about how players are rated, its about how teams are rated. That is the only problem i want to solve |
| 21:46.49 | *** join/##ducleague kierra (n=Les@fl-71-0-156-184.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) |
| 21:46.49 | *** mode/##ducleague [+o kierra] by ChanServ |
| 21:46.49 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v kierra] by [dmp] |
| 21:46.56 | Birdie | but you use the players their individual skill into that, which is wrong |
| 21:47.02 | [dmp] | Birdie: why? |
| 21:47.36 | sussi | dmp: do u mean a variation of the teamscore? |
| 21:47.40 | Birdie | cause everything is done by a team (win, tie, loss) |
| 21:47.47 | Birdie | a team should be seen as "one" |
| 21:47.55 | Birdie | not as "several pieces together" |
| 21:48.41 | sussi | birdie: agree the team is more than several players together |
| 21:48.46 | Thonolan | did you really think this made the leauge more attractive ? |
| 21:48.53 | [dmp] | Thonolan: me? |
| 21:49.03 | sussi | a broken ELO? |
| 21:49.06 | Thonolan | yes |
| 21:49.28 | Thonolan | its only a question |
| 21:49.49 | sussi | the point is to looking for a perfect ELO |
| 21:49.49 | Thonolan | made this the league more attractive for newbies ? |
| 21:50.03 | sussi | i wont go this way! |
| 21:50.36 | Thonolan | if you want to made it more attractive rewards active teams :) |
| 21:50.41 | Birdie | the stuff xell (or mistake?) made was cool, with giving points for win los and ties, and than making a ranking. Adding that to the current elo (seperated ranking or calculated in the normal zelo now) would be cool |
| 21:50.42 | sussi | the best attractive league is where u can stay without disturbancses |
| 21:50.48 | Thonolan | but see it as teamsort |
| 21:50.54 | Birdie | loss* |
| 21:51.00 | Thonolan | *teamsport |
| 21:51.18 | sussi | the reward follows aging of points |
| 21:53.07 | [dmp] | Read my post :) .. No reason for me to try to explain it with other words, unless people dont understand it |
| 21:53.37 | [dmp] | So, people dosnt cosnider a team strong, when they see 3 guys like mikkel? |
| 21:54.13 | [dmp] | a team is its members and how they play together. Currently we rate with random numbers |
| 21:54.36 | [dmp] | ELO can basically only be used to determine if the (playing) members got similar skill |
| 21:55.15 | sussi | let me ask, if a good ELO is build, than a score reset is one time necessary? |
| 21:55.21 | [dmp] | As its very hard to rate teamplay, i see the nextbest thing is to rate the players and estimate how well their teamplay is |
| 21:55.37 | tokimi | i agree with [dmp], it is impossible to tell how good a particlar team is since the members may be of a very broad skill level |
| 21:55.41 | [dmp] | sussi: if elo works, there would be no point in resetting scores |
| 21:56.05 | tokimi | *using the current ELO |
| 21:56.23 | sussi | it has no meaning, because the ELO is currently broken?! |
| 21:56.57 | [dmp] | sussi: is that a question or a statement? |
| 21:57.31 | [dmp] | sussi: if elo worked. The score should be settling on some number, and the variations should be alot less than today. |
| 21:57.34 | sussi | both :# |
| 21:58.53 | sussi | 1 reason for the variation is the period of inactivness. |
| 21:58.58 | [dmp] | sussi: Yes, i belive that the current elo is pretty useless |
| 21:59.10 | *** part/##ducleague kierra (n=Les@fl-71-0-156-184.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) |
| 21:59.48 | sussi | [dmp]: it'S useless but it is correct. |
| 22:00.24 | Birdie | The only way to change ELO now, is using players ELO and not teams ELO...but i still disagree with that. 1) Some might see it as a "battle" to get lots of kills and look less to flags (and also slaughters are more dangerous with this), 2) again tis a teamsport, you play together and you shouldnt be rated individually |
| 22:00.32 | [dmp] | sussi: its correct because the calculation does as they are defined. But its not correct if elo is a number representing a team's skilllevel |
| 22:01.13 | Thonolan | it seems instead to bring the community together we split it more and more |
| 22:01.19 | [dmp] | Birdie: people play differently. This wont change. ALL players get more elo points if the team wins the match. Or lose points. |
| 22:01.48 | sussi | we everytime find to issue: first is the period of inactivness, the second is, how to count newbies |
| 22:02.05 | Birdie | dmp; but they also get more if they kill more? |
| 22:02.09 | [dmp] | sussi: i disagree. The problem isnt inactiveness |
| 22:02.11 | [dmp] | Birdie: no |
| 22:02.18 | [dmp] | Birdie: they share evenly |
| 22:02.33 | Birdie | oh |
| 22:02.38 | Birdie | so lets say you have player A and B |
| 22:02.41 | [dmp] | Birdie: its nothing to do with kills or captures. |
| 22:02.43 | Birdie | who play a match for their team |
| 22:02.49 | Birdie | if the team wins, both get 5points |
| 22:02.55 | [dmp] | yes |
| 22:02.57 | Birdie | no mahter how many captures, deaths, kills |
| 22:03.01 | [dmp] | correct |
| 22:03.03 | Birdie | oh |
| 22:03.09 | sussi | better the period of inactivness, cause u don't know how develop the strenghts of that team |
| 22:03.19 | Birdie | ok that idea isnt as bad as i first thought |
| 22:03.32 | Birdie | but you still have lots of problems with that |
| 22:03.39 | Birdie | inactive people in a team |
| 22:03.52 | [dmp] | Birdie: i didnt say its perfect. Im saying its better |
| 22:04.11 | sussi | Birdie: inactive people are an issue |
| 22:05.03 | Thonolan | what with an newbie team who lost her first 20 matches ? |
| 22:05.20 | Thonolan | the team ranking will be low |
| 22:05.36 | Thonolan | and there individual ranking too ? |
| 22:05.43 | Thonolan | or iam wrong ? |
| 22:05.49 | Birdie | indeed, its not really newbiefriendly |
| 22:06.00 | Birdie | and we want to make the league attractive for new people.. |
| 22:06.02 | Thonolan | maybe i have misunderstodd |
| 22:06.02 | [dmp] | Thonolan: yep, it will be |
| 22:06.03 | sussi | not if u lose a single point for lose a match!!! |
| 22:06.18 | Thonolan | sussi : |
| 22:06.32 | Thonolan | a team whi lost first 20 matches like bzi |
| 22:06.41 | Thonolan | what motivation |
| 22:06.48 | Thonolan | do you see if both |
| 22:06.59 | Thonolan | rankings going down |
| 22:07.46 | Thonolan | but a fact is you have then 2 negativ scores |
| 22:07.46 | sussi | i didnt say the winner dont get points |
| 22:07.46 | [dmp] | Thonolan: To rate teams, someone needs to be better than the rest of us. And newbies arent the best teams. The idea of hiding/delaying rating for new teams, can be used for limiting the effects |
| 22:07.51 | [dmp] | Thonolan: and as many others belive, 1200 is too high starting point |
| 22:08.39 | [dmp] | anyway, i better write an example |
| 22:08.43 | Birdie | dmp: depends |
| 22:09.00 | Birdie | for newbies it might be, but not for some experienced people who decide to make a team |
| 22:09.00 | Thonolan | [dmp]: thx i will carefully read |
| 22:09.02 | sussi | as alternative, i only see the aging of points |
| 22:10.44 | sussi | to lose points over the time, it must not be every day, it could start after getting inactive (the 45 days) |
| 22:10.57 | [dmp] | SportyGal: ping |
| 22:11.04 | SportyGal | [dmp]: pong |
| 22:11.32 | [dmp] | SportyGal: Get you scrabby keyword. I need a male and female firstname. Short. Both starting with A :) |
| 22:11.41 | Birdie | sussi; you mean removing points for inactivity? |
| 22:11.51 | [dmp] | SportyGal: keyboard* |
| 22:11.53 | SportyGal | Andy & Angie |
| 22:11.57 | Birdie | arwyn |
| 22:11.57 | Thonolan | hehe |
| 22:11.58 | sussi | removing points for time |
| 22:12.21 | *** part/##ducleague Thonolan (n=Thonolan@i538799B1.versanet.de) |
| 22:12.23 | Birdie | sussi: as you see in the tread "penalizing for inactivty", many dont like that, and i'm one of them |
| 22:12.44 | Birdie | i doubt it would help like that |
| 22:13.04 | [dmp] | SportyGal: two more (with a) and two more (with b) :) |
| 22:13.09 | SportyGal | [dmp]: girls - amy, annie, anna, ann, abby |
| 22:13.23 | sussi | amalia |
| 22:13.55 | sussi | Birdie: proof it ;) |
| 22:14.10 | Birdie | pff how would i have to do that |
| 22:14.13 | SportyGal | [dmp]: boys - arthur, areg, aaron |
| 22:14.23 | sussi | arnold |
| 22:14.33 | sussi | arthur |
| 22:14.34 | Birdie | you only rehold people from playing by removing points for that |
| 22:14.44 | Birdie | than make it more attractive to match |
| 22:14.50 | Birdie | than to make * |
| 22:14.53 | [dmp] | SportyGal: and just two with b :) |
| 22:15.12 | SportyGal | [dmp]: girls (b): briana, betsy, betty, barb, babs. Boys (b): brian, bryan, brett, barry, bart |
| 22:15.13 | sussi | the reason is, that common missinterpreting of activnes |
| 22:15.28 | [dmp] | SportyGal: thanks :) |
| 22:15.41 | SportyGal | [dmp]: so glad to be able to contribute something :p |
| 22:15.52 | Birdie | dmp: expecting 20kids in once? |
| 22:16.00 | sussi | actual a team is after 45 days, what is very short |
| 22:16.19 | [dmp] | to avoid offending players, i need some names :) |
| 22:16.36 | [dmp] | newbieBirdie would probably not be considered funny by all :) |
| 22:16.47 | Birdie | at least you wrote the trueth than |
| 22:16.48 | Birdie | ;) |
| 22:17.50 | sussi | the reason for newbie is, to master the match |
| 22:18.15 | sussi | to grow up, not to win straight from the beginning |
| 22:22.51 | sussi | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=84407#84407 |
| 22:24.26 | sussi | Birdie: did u know that the current ELO has already a virtual cut away of points for time? |
| 22:24.57 | Birdie | virtual? so not for real? |
| 22:25.09 | [dmp] | SportyGal: Uh, i can use a male/female pair with beginnig with 'c' :) |
| 22:25.17 | SportyGal | lol |
| 22:25.32 | SportyGal | male: caden |
| 22:25.37 | SportyGal | female: caitlin |
| 22:25.39 | sussi | virtual means. is aready ther but u cant see it in the calculation |
| 22:25.56 | Birdie | male: cedric |
| 22:25.58 | Birdie | (my real name:) ) |
| 22:26.00 | sussi | Catleen |
| 22:26.12 | sussi | Cathy |
| 22:26.23 | Birdie | if you really will use all those names, i doubt its more clear |
| 22:26.24 | Birdie | :) |
| 22:26.38 | tokimi | Birdie: shhh |
| 22:26.45 | Birdie | sussi: than you may explain me how it works now |
| 22:27.24 | sussi | because teams acn not win every match, but has to battle aat least every 45 days |
| 22:28.16 | sussi | if u assume a win:loose ratio of 30:70, and playing 10 matches u have to expect that u loose 3 matches |
| 22:28.58 | sussi | and 3 times lossing point in a given time, in a result u will lose point over the time |
| 22:29.51 | sussi | but only if you play, so the current ELO strenghts inactivness a little |
| 22:30.13 | Birdie | ugh |
| 22:30.18 | Birdie | let me reread that 50 times |
| 22:30.34 | sussi | thatswhy i named it virtual |
| 22:31.16 | Birdie | i doubt they meaned it to make it look like they loose points for inactiviness |
| 22:31.18 | sussi | HOW played 500 matches and there win was over 60 % |
| 22:31.37 | sussi | you loose for playing actually |
| 22:32.01 | sussi | thatswhy active teams always lowranked |
| 22:32.29 | Birdie | the higher you get, the less points you get for a win |
| 22:32.33 | Birdie | and if you loose vs a low team than |
| 22:32.34 | sussi | because a match have 1 winner and 1 looser |
| 22:32.37 | Birdie | you loose like 40 points in once |
| 22:32.49 | Birdie | and you need like 15 matches to catch up for only that one loss |
| 22:33.03 | Birdie | (10matches will be more like it) |
| 22:33.19 | sussi | i proofed the present virtual aging of score, nothing more |
| 22:33.38 | sussi | Birdie: thx to help me |
| 22:34.00 | Birdie | np |
| 22:34.01 | sussi | thatswhy active teams always have a trend to get lowranked |
| 22:34.18 | sussi | hope i could change your mind ;) |
| 22:34.34 | Birdie | i'm quiet stubborn:) |
| 22:34.38 | Birdie | but i'll have to read dmp his post |
| 22:34.48 | Birdie | (if i will understand that completely..) |
| 22:35.18 | sussi | pls post the link |
| 22:35.21 | [suave] | nighty night guys and gals :) |
| 22:35.41 | [suave] | take care of [dmp] for me, while i'm asleep :) |
| 22:35.42 | Birdie | suave, use that name dmp! |
| 22:36.00 | [suave] | Birdie: sorry? |
| 22:36.16 | Birdie | dmp needed names of male and female persons to use in a n example about elo |
| 22:36.22 | Birdie | so i just told him to use your name |
| 22:36.35 | sussi | IRL name! |
| 22:36.36 | [suave] | Birdie: oh, didn't see that :) |
| 22:36.52 | [suave] | hehe |
| 22:37.30 | [suave] | well, off i go *waving* |
| 22:37.34 | sussi | good night, sweety |
| 22:37.39 | Birdie | goodnight |
| 22:38.02 | [suave] | :) |
| 22:38.04 | *** part/##ducleague [suave] (n=totte@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:43.08 | sussi | is dmp still writing? |
| 22:44.13 | [dmp] | yes |
| 22:44.14 | SportyGal | probably |
| 22:44.33 | SportyGal | [dmp] is generally very careful to write clearly, especially when the topic is complex |
| 22:44.58 | [dmp] | That was a nice way of saying, that i use my dictionary alot :) |
| 22:45.24 | Birdie | yea to understand all of it.. |
| 22:45.26 | SportyGal | nope, it was a nice way of saying, I appreciate the thought you put into your posts to make sure everyone can understand them :) |
| 22:45.40 | Birdie | for non english persons its hard:( |
| 22:46.12 | SportyGal | Birdie: even for native english-speakers, many of the posts are difficult to read |
| 22:46.50 | CBG | english isn't exactly a simple language |
| 22:46.51 | Birdie | i found that out:) |
| 22:46.54 | Birdie | english is simple |
| 22:46.58 | Birdie | the only point is to keep it simple |
| 22:47.00 | CBG | for every "rule" there are exceptions |
| 22:47.36 | TheRedBaron | and english words, common english that is, is often defined by its contextual use |
| 22:47.42 | CBG | i before e !!! ... except after c .... except in about 3 other words too where 3 is before i when there is no c involved..... :| |
| 22:47.44 | SportyGal | for every exception, there are more exceptions :) |
| 22:47.54 | CBG | SportyGal: indeed. |
| 22:48.16 | Birdie | cbg: english really doesnt have that much exceptions |
| 22:48.25 | Birdie | if you compare to other languages |
| 22:48.54 | CBG | Birdie: well, I learnt some French, but was no good at it so I dropped it after (I think) 3 years, |
| 22:49.26 | CBG | So, other than that and the few words of German/Dutch I have learnt from BZ, English is all know |
| 22:49.32 | Birdie | french is full of exceptions compared to english |
| 22:49.32 | CBG | all I know* |
| 22:49.43 | Birdie | dutch is even worser |
| 22:49.46 | CBG | heh |
| 22:49.57 | Birdie | i still have problems with all the rules in dutch to |
| 22:50.02 | CBG | :o |
| 22:52.09 | CBG | Ja, nein, danke, etc = german/dutch. Je suis le grand fromage. = Francais. That is all I know that is not English. :| |
| 22:52.38 | Birdie | je suis le grand fromage lol |
| 22:52.46 | CBG | :D |
| 23:35.47 | *** join/##ducleague triclops (n=triclops@203-206-244-245.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:35.48 | *** mode/##ducleague [+v triclops] by [dmp] |
| 23:54.07 | [dmp] | This is probably going to be my longest post every :-| |
| 23:54.47 | tokimi | [dmp]: :( |
| 23:57.37 | tokimi | ~pamper [dmp] |
| 23:57.41 | jbot | ACTION pulls out all the stops, and arranges a 2-hour massage, manicure, pedicure, facial and a full day at the spa for [dmp]. In addition, food is catered from the local 5-star restaurants, prepared especially for [dmp]. An army of people are available to do anything [dmp] might wish for! |
