irclog2html for ##ace on 20060314

`00:19.43`	`Tekkub`	`~ace forum`
`00:19.46`	`purl`	`somebody said ace forum was online, I think`
`00:24.02`	`cladhaire`	`heyas Tek`
`00:24.16`	`cladhaire`	`how's things?`
`00:45.21`	`Tekkub`	`good clad`
`00:45.29`	`Tekkub`	`did my first MC last night`
`00:45.41`	`Tekkub`	`and it was the first time the guild killed raggy too`
`00:46.03`	`Tekkub`	`first try we got him to 1 fucking percent with only 35 people`
`00:46.47`	`Tekkub`	`second time I ate dirt 5 seconds in, they didn't do well grin`
`00:46.54`	`kergoth`	`does wow have any of the functions in 'debug'? like getinfo?`
`00:47.20`	`Tekkub`	`brb, store and crap before ZG`
`00:49.12`	`kergoth`	`heh, i always do such twisted stuff in lua`
`00:49.25`	`kergoth`	`this one is actually using debug.getinfo() to do somethign other than debug :P`
`00:51.40`	`kergoth`	`debug.getinfo(2, "f").func is the function that called the function you're in. can do twisted things knowing the context that you're running in...`
`00:52.15`	`cladhaire`	`=)`
`00:53.10`	`kergoth`	`in this case, its an implementation of a super() for calling your parent class's methods from your methods. no clean way to do it without explicitly naming the parent`
`00:54.00`	`kergoth`	`because you're calling the parent class methods with your object as self, not an object of that class, so that method doesnt know what class its in, so it cant safely determine that class's superclass for a subsequent super() call`
`00:54.04`	`kergoth`	`messy`
`00:54.42`	`kergoth`	`so... i maintain a method->class map, then do`
`00:54.42`	`kergoth`	`27 function super()`
`00:54.42`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:54.42`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:54.49`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`00:56.05`	`kergoth`	`erm, that super() has fmap being method->superclass, not method->class, but you get the point`
`00:56.08`	`kergoth`	`disgusting`
`00:59.46`	`*** join/##ace Parak (n=profi@user-0cev737.cable.mindspring.com)`
`01:00.49`	`kergoth`	`hmmmmm`
`01:01.39`	`kergoth`	`shit. i was just editing af ile, then closed the terminal, and i have no idea wher ei was when i created it`
`01:05.08`	`*** part/##ace Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com)`
`01:16.08`	`*** join/##ace Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`01:20.49`	`kergoth`	`cladhaire: luajit is awesome. i wish wow had it. i tested my multiple inheritence in lua on stock 5.1 vs luajit vs luajit+optimizations. it cut the method lookup times by more than half.`
`01:20.53`	`kergoth`	`craziness`
`01:21.39`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`We should maybe ask slouken? Isn't it his job managing Lua->WoW interfacing?`
`01:22.07`	`kergoth`	`i think so. its awfully invasive though, changing the way lua code compilation happens.`
`01:22.27`	`kergoth`	`i doubt they'd be willing to introduce so invasive a change into a production release of a product..`
`01:22.35`	`kergoth`	`ah well`
`01:23.40`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`kergoth: How big are the changes between standard Lua and Lua-JIT? I'd hope JIT would be designed so that the translation would be as painless as possible.`
`01:24.05`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Especially since Lua is so OO-happy`
`01:24.16`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Easing transitions is one of the staples of OO.`
`01:47.28`	`kergoth`	`standard lua compiles everything on load. JIT doenst compile functions until their first execution. pretty invasive, would require a full regression test of everything involved`
`01:48.06`	`kergoth`	`JIT also involves a compilation pipeline in which optimizations occur, which is another possible point of failure, more thorough testing to be sure nothing inadvertantly breaks`
`01:49.06`	`kergoth`	`in a release product, every change, if any, to any core libraries used by your code have to be reviewed extensively due to the potential for breakage`
`01:49.28`	`kergoth`	`changes to something that fundamental effectively nullifies any and all testing thats been done up to that point`
`02:00.58`	`*** join/##ace Kaelten (n=Kaelten@68.63.3.183)`
`02:01.04`	`Kaelten`	`hey guys`
`02:01.14`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`~ace forum`
`02:01.15`	`purl`	`extra, extra, read all about it, ace forum is down yet again`
`02:01.27`	`Cairenn`	`hey Kaelten`
`02:01.42`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Damn, I wanted to show you the new purl feature I saw used earlier today, have him give you GOOD news`
`02:01.53`	`Kaelten`	`lol`
`02:02.18`	`Kaelten`	`ok forums are back up on my end`
`02:02.24`	`Kaelten`	`had to run a repair on the db`
`02:02.28`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`~ace forum`
`02:02.29`	`purl`	`[ace forum] up and down more than Tekkub on a good night`
`02:02.36`	`Kaelten`	`lol`
`02:03.03`	`Cairenn`	`hahahaha`
`02:03.17`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`We should have purl + voice synthizing software + Skype`
`02:03.41`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Have purl give Kaelten or kergoth a call whenever the forums are down in a creepy robot voice`
`02:04.15`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Or just record my cheerful voice -- "Hi! I'd like to inform <insert name here> that your website is down. Please correct the matter before your users form an angry mob! Thank you!"`
`02:06.05`	`kergoth`	`~remulate`
`02:06.06`	`purl`	`i need tacos! i need tacos or i'll explode. that happens to me sometimes.`
`02:06.46`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`~ace forum`
`02:06.47`	`purl`	`methinks ace forum is online`
`02:06.54`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`There we go, good news`
`02:09.04`	`Kaelten`	`cool`
`02:09.20`	`Kaelten`	`well. I'm working out a deal to host it on wowi's servers`
`02:09.28`	`Kaelten`	`which for the most part have better uptime than this new host`
`02:12.04`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`What, Cair doesn't give you it to you free?`
`02:12.11`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`Do you need to do "favours" for her?`
`02:17.43`	`Tem`	`Kaelten: will that mean wowace will be down on patch days?`
`02:17.59`	`GenNMX\|Thrae`	`WoWI isn't down on patch days`
`02:19.28`	`Tem`	`I've seen it go down a few times`
`02:19.35`	`Tem`	`it was fine for 1.9 I think`
`02:19.46`	`Tem`	`probably just slower than normal`
`02:21.24`	`Kaelten`	`not sure we may be on the same server as ctmod`
`02:32.35`	`pagefault`	`yay`
`02:32.37`	`pagefault`	`wowace works`
`02:33.26`	`pagefault`	`was down for so long for me`
`02:33.30`	`pagefault`	`I need wowace for the forums`
`03:12.11`	`*** part/##ace cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-191-241.twcny.res.rr.com)`
`03:58.01`	`kergoth`	`hmmmm`
`04:18.47`	`*** join/##ace Wobin_ (n=wob@221.221.26.207)`
`04:21.57`	`kergoth`	`"Then who's my grandfather?" "Isn't it obvious?" "shakes head" "You are!"`
`04:58.29`	`*** join/##ace Eraphine\|Disco (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu)`
`07:17.39`	`*** join/##ace [MoonWolf] (n=MoonWolf@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl)`
`07:23.38`	`Slayman\|ZZZzzzz`	`kk watchdog looks good until now i just need to find the target of target frame as it exists but i can't find it ~~`
`07:24.33`	`Tekkub`	`~emulate mindy`
`07:24.42`	`purl`	`Okey Lady!`
`07:25.31`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i hope you people did not abuse hlaalu to much`
`07:25.39`	`Slayman\|ZZZzzzz`	`good morning btw but now I'm off to work see you all later`
`07:32.13`	`[MoonWolf]`	`I have added a sticky with the irc server information.`
`07:32.23`	`otravi`	`cheers`
`07:33.50`	`Tekkub`	`~emulate cairenn`
`07:33.57`	`purl`	`ACTION purrs`
`07:34.15`	`Tekkub`	`~good idea bad idea`
`07:34.18`	`purl`	`GI: Climbing a mountain. BI: Climbing a mountain lion.`
`07:34.18`	`otravi`	`^SE(%w+) (%d) (.+)$ << anyone have a better way of matching both SET <digit> <text> and SET2 <digit> <text>?`
`07:34.38`	`otravi`	`I'm used to use regexps, not the pattern system :D`
`07:35.10`	`Tekkub`	`uh, the patterns are regex's, with a few missing things like a fucking OR operator`
`07:35.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`eeeuh would this match SE(one or more nonword chars)number ?`
`07:35.53`	`otravi`	`yeh, but I miss parts :<`
`07:35.57`	`Tekkub`	`anywho... "^SET2? (%d) (.+)$"`
`07:36.02`	`[MoonWolf]`	`ooh`
`07:36.04`	`[MoonWolf]`	`sory lowercase`
`07:36.06`	`[MoonWolf]`	`word char.`
`07:36.27`	`otravi`	`ty :)`
`07:40.31`	`[MoonWolf]`	`6412 lines of irc madness logged.`
`07:41.38`	`otravi`	`I don't dare to count the lines in my logs :<`
`07:41.44`	`[MoonWolf]`	`no`
`07:41.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lines logged by hlaalu`
`07:41.56`	`otravi`	`:o`
`07:41.58`	`otravi`	`a spy!`
`08:32.21`	id`	`[MoonWolf]: xD`
`08:32.26`	id`	`morning, btw`
`08:32.32`	`[MoonWolf]`	`morning`
`08:32.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`hwo is owrk today /`
`08:32.44`	id`	`HAH`
`08:32.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`s/owrk/work/`
`08:32.55`	id`	`;>`
`08:33.15`	id`	`I get to convert 6000 line modules for this CMS to a new library`
`08:33.23`	id`	`taking me weeks :\|`
`08:33.28`	id`	`(not one file)`
`08:34.06`	id`	`so yeah, BORING`
`08:34.21`	id`	`I wanna do stuff with kepler instead :P`
`08:35.26`	id`	`that was so cool.. Yesterday when i went and fiddled with kepler for 10 mins i got the old spirit of 'lets make something' back. Only this time I'm not 11 and I can really do it ^^`
`08:43.14`	`*** join/##ace haste (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no)`
`08:44.09`	`otravi`	`and I though I finally managed to fix the X lockup issue ;-(`
`08:54.10`	id`	`and irssi`
`08:54.12`	id`	`:E`
`08:54.35`	id`	`Or bitchX, whatever floats your boat`
`08:54.47`	id`	`I've ebeen meaning to make my own IRC client for some time.`
`08:54.55`	id`	`Don;t laugh yet, i have a good idea.`
`08:55.30`	id`	`Have one stream open to send/receive data`
`08:56.02`	id`	`make all received data go to ~/.irc/server/channel`
`08:56.14`	id`	`use any damn pager you want to read the incoming stream`
`08:56.44`	id`	`or make an irc bot script that acts on events`
`08:56.46`	id`	`or one that logs`
`08:56.48`	id`	`etc`
`08:56.49`	id`	`;)`
`08:57.17`	id`	`hell you can even use telnet to do the job`
`08:57.18`	id`	`:P`
`08:57.45`	id`	`and sending information would be ez too`
`08:57.48`	`kergoth`	`you can use telnet to irc directly. irc is a text protocol`
`08:57.50`	id`	`kergoth: how does this sound?`
`08:57.52`	`kergoth`	`course you'd have to remember the commands`
`08:57.55`	`kergoth`	`:P`
`08:58.00`	id`	`kergoth: thats what i mean`
`08:58.05`	id`	`:)`
`08:58.06`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i prefer using normal clients instead of telnet`
`08:58.17`	id`	`you wouldnt have to use telnet directly`
`08:58.18`	`kergoth`	id`: it sounds like you just want an irc proxy.
`08:58.24`	`kergoth`	`go look at bnc or dircproxy or ctrlproxy`
`08:58.35`	id`	`kergoth: nay i have a remote screen+irssi atm`
`08:58.41`	id`	`just a neat idea :O`
`08:59.11`	`kergoth`	`well what you're dscribing is just a proxy. something to do the legwork of maintaining the connection to the server, then connecting apps to that`
`08:59.27`	`kergoth`	`and there are lots of projects that do just that`
`08:59.33`	id`	`arse :P`
`08:59.52`	`kergoth`	`well yes, but thats beside the point`
`08:59.54`	`kergoth`	`:P`
`08:59.58`	id`	`xD`
`09:34.08`	id`	`kergoth: that preprocessor is pretty neat`
`09:34.16`	id`	`gunna look at it now`
`09:34.18`	id`	`:P`
`09:34.25`	id`	`Because Jscript is acting funky on me :(`
`09:34.44`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lua preprocessor ?`
`09:35.12`	id`	`http://lua-users.org/wiki/SimpleLuaPreprocessor`
`09:36.14`	id`	`for that template thingy`
`09:36.15`	id`	`:p`
`09:36.54`	`[MoonWolf]`	`ah`
`09:37.08`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yeah, the preprocessor would be a perfect templating engine.`
`09:37.49`	id`	`allows you to cut up templates into chunks too`
`09:38.19`	id`	`to use parts of templates more then once (on certain conditions even :P)`
`09:42.54`	`[MoonWolf]`	`coolio`
`10:04.54`	`Tekkub`	`hey moon`
`10:05.09`	`Tekkub`	`you need to hook the roll tooltips with Mendy`
`10:05.13`	`Tekkub`	`grin`
`10:05.18`	`[MoonWolf]`	`eeuh`
`10:05.20`	`[MoonWolf]`	`could try`
`10:05.27`	`Tekkub`	`shouldn't be too hard`
`10:05.31`	`[MoonWolf]`	`ill add that to my huge todo list.`
`10:05.47`	`Tekkub`	`and I think there should be some indication on the ZG items which class is the nechant`
`10:05.56`	`[MoonWolf]`	`right under world peace and slicing and dicing tomatoes.`
`10:06.18`	`Tekkub`	`cause it seems to be a higher preference cause it's the best item of the set`
`10:06.37`	`Tekkub`	`seriously, roll tolltips is a biggie man`
`10:06.45`	`[MoonWolf]`	`put it under feature requests in wowi`
`10:07.02`	`Tekkub`	`I have to open from the chat window to see the info... and I wanna get rid of rloss spam altogether`
`10:07.19`	`[MoonWolf]`	`kk`
`10:07.28`	`Tekkub`	`....`
`10:07.29`	`Tekkub`	`roll`
`10:07.32`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i hope i can a few days off some time soon.`
`10:07.34`	`Tekkub`	`WTF was that?`
`10:07.39`	`[MoonWolf]`	`get a few days off*`
`10:07.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`wtf was what ?`
`10:07.56`	`Tekkub`	`<PROTECTED>`
`10:08.09`	`[MoonWolf]`	`no idea`
`10:08.13`	`[MoonWolf]`	`figured you had a weird typo.`
`10:08.29`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i have them a lot too`
`10:08.36`	`[MoonWolf]`	`especiall in the morning.`
`10:08.53`	`[MoonWolf]`	`s/ll/lly/`
`10:08.59`	`Tekkub`	`well dvorak doesn't help either`
`10:09.10`	`Tekkub`	`people can read qwerty typos but not dvor ones`
`10:09.31`	`[MoonWolf]`	`good point.`
`10:11.39`	`Tekkub`	`~emulate mindy`
`10:11.44`	`purl`	`Okey Lady!`
`10:12.17`	`Tekkub`	`bleh...`
`10:12.28`	`Tekkub`	`someone should write PT-GUI so I don't gotta`
`10:12.47`	`Tekkub`	`just need to rip off KCI's interace and add a menu to pick a set`
`10:12.57`	`Tekkub`	`and make it show the "results" of the set`
`10:13.31`	`Tekkub`	`actually... I wonder if we could get Kael to just add PT support into KCI's GUI`
`10:13.36`	`Tekkub`	`that'd be simpler`
`10:13.42`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i really hope kealten can move the forum to some other platform.`
`10:13.55`	`Tekkub`	`but kael's slow to implement stuff... stupid people with lives and jobs and stuff`
`10:14.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`its not my fault`
`10:14.46`	`[MoonWolf]`	`tom cruise did it!`
`10:16.43`	`[MoonWolf]`	`besides werent you looking for a job too ?`
`10:17.37`	`Tekkub`	`yea still looking :P`
`10:18.15`	`[MoonWolf]`	`any luck ?`
`10:18.24`	`[MoonWolf]`	`what are you looking for anyway ?`
`10:19.07`	`*** topic/##ace by Tekkub -> wowace.com \| ace.pastebin.com \| OMGKITTYKATMEWMEWMEWMEW`
`10:19.23`	`Tekkub`	`nope, and whatever`
`10:19.46`	`Tekkub`	`general misc customer service cashier type stuff`
`10:19.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lol at topic.`
`10:21.17`	`[MoonWolf]`	`how about telemarketing :P`
`10:23.09`	`Tekkub`	`no I avoid phones, hate the things`
`10:30.52`	`Tekkub`	`you know, our AH farmers on Icecrown are retards`
`10:31.04`	id`	`what are these farmers`
`10:31.16`	`Tekkub`	`we got one guy, Happynees, who buys out cheap coins/bijous and resells em`
`10:31.33`	`Tekkub`	`and he puts the coins up in stacks of 10-18`
`10:31.35`	id`	`chinese ppl obvious but... what do they do`
`10:31.48`	`Tekkub`	`and bijous anywhere from 1-6`
`10:31.58`	id`	`shrug and?`
`10:32.17`	`Tekkub`	`considering the most anyone's gonna want at one time is 5 of any given coin or 2 bijous...`
`10:32.42`	id`	`oh well then why not tell him`
`10:32.49`	id`	`instead of me`
`10:32.58`	id`	`;P`
`10:33.00`	`Tekkub`	`they're not trade mats, the quests call for 5 coins of one type, 5 of another and two of one color bijou`
`10:33.17`	`Tekkub`	`because he's an idiot and uh.... okey nevermind`
`10:33.38`	id`	`just tell him and he'll be less of an idiot`
`10:33.57`	`Tekkub`	`interestingly enough, coins and bijous aren't in any of the AH filters so KCI never scans their prices`
`10:34.19`	id`	`i dont even know what they are`
`10:34.23`	`Tekkub`	`nah I'm not gonna help a AH farmer have an easier time selling his crap`
`10:34.41`	`Tekkub`	`I know you don't, so why you even talking to me about it? :P`
`10:34.54`	`Wobin_`	`Maybe he just has Happy knees`
`10:39.36`	`Tekkub`	`yea who knows, and no I didn't typo his name`
`10:46.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`maybe he is trying to trick people into bying more then they need.`
`10:48.23`	`Wobin_`	`With a name like that, I wouldn't put it past him!`
`11:08.07`	`Tekkub`	`~good idea bad idea`
`11:08.08`	`purl`	`GI: Taking a deep breath before jumping into a swimming pool. BI: Taking a deep breath after jumping into a swimming pool.`
`11:08.14`	`Tekkub`	`I love that one :)`
`11:08.41`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lol`
`11:38.26`	`Tekkub`	`hrm... just had an idea for the CTRA Bossmods and ace...`
`11:38.45`	`Tekkub`	`from what I've seen so far, bossmods is mostly timers and buff/debuff warnings`
`11:38.59`	`Tekkub`	`why not do the timers with Timex bars instead of chat`
`11:39.24`	`Tekkub`	`like in a the Ragnaros fight have a bar counting down to when the Sons spawn`
`11:46.15`	`Tekkub`	`cause frankly, I hate raiding with CTRA's bossmods...`
`11:46.23`	`Tekkub`	`it's like fucking spam central`
`11:46.59`	`Tekkub`	`I got raid chat full of crap, two popup texts with the same shit, and the raid leader seding tells if I get a certain debuff or whatever :P`
`11:47.27`	`Tekkub`	`I'm gonna sit down and write up some filters to remove their spam once I got a better way to display it`
`12:39.12`	`Codayus`	`Yeah...`
`12:39.45`	`Codayus`	`I mean, it's important that you know about whatever it's warning you of...but the repeats are just confusing...`
`12:40.31`	`Codayus`	`Probably really annoying if you're trying to use the raid channel for communication during the fight too...`
`12:40.47`	`Codayus`	`<shrug> Wouldn't know about that myself.`
`12:41.45`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Its spelled Sequal damnit!!!!`
`12:42.05`	`Codayus`	`.......`
`12:42.07`	`Codayus`	`?`
`12:42.10`	`[MoonWolf]`	`pronounced i mean`
`12:42.13`	`[MoonWolf]`	`nevermind`
`12:42.18`	`Tekkub`	`:P`
`12:42.21`	`Codayus`	`...`
`12:42.34`	`Tekkub`	`sorry I hate people that try to be creative with acronyms`
`12:42.35`	`Codayus`	`We're talking about database query languages, aren't we...`
`12:42.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yes we are`
`12:42.49`	`Tekkub`	`just say the letters if it doesn't explicitly spell a real word`
`12:43.23`	`Tekkub`	`and yes, I hate CTRA's Bossmods..`
`12:43.30`	`Tekkub`	`it's like a simple timer.....`
`12:43.50`	`Codayus`	`Tekkub: Some are, some are more complex.`
`12:43.51`	`Tekkub`	`HEY HEY HEY LOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY HEY!!!!!! BTW something will hapen in 20 seconds`
`12:44.01`	`Tekkub`	`HEY HEY HEY LOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY HEY!!!!!! BTW something will hapen in 15 seconds`
`12:44.08`	`Tekkub`	`HEY HEY HEY LOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY HEY!!!!!! BTW something will hapen in 10 seconds`
`12:44.15`	`Tekkub`	`HEY HEY HEY LOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY HEY!!!!!! BTW something will hapen in 5 seconds`
`12:44.25`	`Tekkub`	`HEY HEY HEY LOK AT ME HEY HEY HEY HEY!!!!!! BTW something just happened and you're dead`
`12:44.32`	`Codayus`	`Quite a few ZG ones scan the combat log for an emote or spellcast, for example, and don't have a timer component at all.`
`12:44.44`	`Tekkub`	`yea I know`
`12:44.58`	`Tekkub`	`my point is there needs to be more graceful display of data`
`12:45.05`	`Tekkub`	`this spamming chat is bullshit`
`12:45.26`	`Codayus`	`<shrug> Doesn't really bother me. But I will agree that some more useful and hopefully generic architecture would be nice.`
`12:45.41`	`Tekkub`	`timers, a frame that displays an icon, and one single headsup chat echo that doesn't add something to the chat frame`
`12:45.42`	`Codayus`	`Wearn't you the one talking about a bosspanel plugin to do that a couple weeks back?`
`12:45.52`	`Tekkub`	`:)`
`12:45.53`	`Tekkub`	`yes`
`12:46.02`	`Tekkub`	`still on my todo`
`12:46.55`	`Codayus`	`Well, adding something to the chat frame is a feature, not a bug. Sorta. If memory serves, it's off by default and has to be turned on - but its there so people without the CTRA still see the headsup message...`
`12:47.33`	`Codayus`	`Unless you can rely on everyone having the mod (which you probably can't) that's probably the correct behaviour - BUT the mod should filter the /ra message out again.`
`12:47.56`	`Codayus`	`Uh....that was fairly inarticulate. Hopefully it came through anyhow.`
`12:49.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`more or less`
`12:53.40`	`Tekkub`	`no Cod.. I mmean.. as it stands I'm getting a raid chat, an overhead from the leader's CTRABM and an overhead from my own CTRABM`
`12:53.53`	`Tekkub`	`I'd like one single notification that just goes away`
`12:53.59`	`Codayus`	`Uh...right.`
`12:54.06`	`Tekkub`	`I don't want raid chat spammed up with useless info`
`12:54.32`	`Tekkub`	`so yea, I want filters :)`
`12:54.45`	`Tekkub`	`I'll write filters`
`12:54.48`	`Tekkub`	`I just need a CTRABM replacement first`
`12:55.18`	`Tekkub`	`and as I see it that means we need timers, overhead chat (I'd just use the default UI's one) and some sort of icon frame`
`12:55.36`	`Codayus`	`My comment was that you really should be getting the notification in raid chat, because it's correct behaviour to send the message. But yes, a filter would be good.`
`12:55.56`	`Tekkub`	`the basic framework should be simple looking at CTRABM's code... and for added bonus I'd add to it that it only function when you're near the boss`
`12:56.28`	`Codayus`	`Actually, I think some sort of alert/message/rs system would be an ideal candidate for inclusion into the base UI, because it's A) very useful, B) lightweight, and C) most useful when everyone has it.`
`12:56.43`	`Tekkub`	`yea`
`12:56.51`	*** join/##ace ag` (n=Andreas@0x50c4844b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk)
`12:57.04`	`Tekkub`	`the really shitty part to the spam confusion`
`12:57.15`	`Tekkub`	`our raid leaders timers were all fucked up`
`12:57.24`	`Tekkub`	`so I got two different warning`
`12:57.41`	`Tekkub`	`in the end it came down to my own personal sense of when shit would happen`
`12:58.06`	`Tekkub`	`which is kinda how it should be I think.. knowing exactly when shit's going down makes it not a game really`
`12:58.14`	`Codayus`	`That's trickier to fix...you can't rely on their only being one boss mod installed, and it's effectively impossible to work out which is right on the fly.`
`12:58.31`	`Tekkub`	`you know what happens exactly when and you're bent over and lubed ready for it... what fun is that?`
`12:58.46`	`Codayus`	`Which fight are you thinking of, in particular?`
`12:59.01`	`Tekkub`	`yea, I just want to handle my own boss mod shit and filter out all their spam`
`12:59.12`	`Codayus`	`For some of the fights with timers, if you know whats going to happen, you can avoid it.`
`12:59.17`	`Tekkub`	`well hakkar, ragnaros for two`
`12:59.30`	`Tekkub`	`those were fucking simple timers IMCO`
`12:59.38`	`Codayus`	`Heh, sadly, I've never seen Ragnaros.`
`12:59.40`	`Tekkub`	`and arlokk wasn't too bad either`
`12:59.48`	`Codayus`	`....arlokk has timers?`
`12:59.50`	`Tekkub`	`rag had two timers`
`13:00.00`	`Tekkub`	`every like 10 seconds he does an aoe`
`13:00.13`	`Tekkub`	`which I don't even know why I need warned, it's a randomish target`
`13:00.43`	`Tekkub`	`and he stays up for like 3 min, then submerges and spawns some fire elems.. then after like a min he comes back up`
`13:00.52`	`Tekkub`	`two godddamn timers, fuck the spam`
`13:00.57`	`Codayus`	`Hakkar fight really benefits from timers because the basic fight mechanic needs very exact timing. Which is a flaw in the encounter design, I think...makes it boring and mechanistic, yet still stressful.`
`13:01.06`	`Tekkub`	`and one timer I see as pointless`
`13:01.24`	`Tekkub`	`yup, rags was the same way`
`13:01.31`	`Tekkub`	`he's up, he's gone, he's back`
`13:01.36`	`Tekkub`	`all perfectly timed`
`13:01.52`	`Tekkub`	`hakkar was really boring honestly`
`13:02.14`	`Tekkub`	`every x seconds he drains, you need poison on you when he does... whopdeedoodle`
`13:02.52`	`Codayus`	`And the buff he got just made him harder. The fights still as boring as ever. :-/`
`13:03.09`	`Tekkub`	`heh, we raped him good tonight, it was easy`
`13:03.31`	`Codayus`	`Did you fight him before...uh...1.9.3 or whenever ZG got rebalanced a bit?`
`13:03.31`	`Tekkub`	`it was my first time fighting him too, same with rags the night before`
`13:03.34`	`Codayus`	`Ah.`
`13:04.15`	`Tekkub`	`shrug maybe I'm just lucky and have a guild that raids well together`
`13:04.19`	`Codayus`	`He was about ten times easier before.`
`13:04.23`	`Tekkub`	`people don't fuck off, they do their job`
`13:04.37`	`Tekkub`	`and they do it well :)`
`13:05.37`	`Codayus`	`...or twenty times easier, maybe. He was sad...`
`13:05.45`	`Tekkub`	`heh`
`13:06.02`	`Tekkub`	`ghazranka was a lot harder than he was`
`13:06.18`	`Tekkub`	`until we figgered out we should be in the water when we fight him`
`13:06.24`	`Codayus`	`nod`
`13:06.51`	`Codayus`	`Problem with ZG is it takes so long to clear. :-/`
`13:06.57`	`Tekkub`	`in fact, I think it was my big bounce on the first try that pulled in the adds that wiped us grin`
`13:07.17`	`Tekkub`	`didn't they fix tha tin the "rebalancing"?`
`13:11.07`	`Codayus`	`fix what?`
`13:13.46`	`[MoonWolf]`	`[MoonWolf] I am a GOD!`
`13:13.46`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Hlaalu i wouldnt mind them so much if they pay it .. and specs on the sexual scripts of HIV-positive men who have sex with men`
`13:16.48`	`Wobin_`	`...`
`13:17.51`	`[MoonWolf]`	`hlaalu is my bot creation.`
`13:18.48`	`Wobin_`	`markov?`
`13:19.15`	`[MoonWolf]`	`ye`
`13:19.17`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yes*`
`13:19.18`	`Wobin_`	`(You might want to put a separator between hlaalu's name and what it says...)`
`13:19.33`	`[MoonWolf]`	`oh`
`13:19.34`	`Wobin_`	`What have you seeded it with =)`
`13:19.42`	`[MoonWolf]`	`thats is yust the effect of the xchat copy pasting`
`13:19.49`	`Codayus`	`Wobin_: That's not a question I think I want to know the answer to.`
`13:19.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`you can talk with im in #hlaalu if you want.`
`13:20.23`	`[MoonWolf]`	`he doesnt make a lot of sense yet.`
`13:20.30`	`[MoonWolf]`	`only has about 1200 lines of log to work with.`
`13:21.21`	`Wobin_`	`feeding him irc logs?`
`13:21.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yeah`
`13:22.08`	`Codayus`	`Kind of cruel, isn't it? poor thing...`
`13:22.20`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yeah`
`13:22.25`	`[MoonWolf]`	`but i want it to be fucked up`
`13:22.29`	`[MoonWolf]`	`and idiotic`
`13:22.31`	`[MoonWolf]`	`like irc people`
`13:22.31`	`Wobin_`	`Especially if it's ##ace`
`13:22.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:22.42`	`[MoonWolf]`	`those channels`
`13:22.50`	`[MoonWolf]`	`logs from about 8 hours last night.`
`13:22.50`	`Wobin_`	`Tekkub will corrupt the poor thing =(`
`13:23.17`	`Codayus`	`Slurp qdb.us database, and use that. :-)`
`13:23.20`	`Tekkub`	`~dyslexia`
`13:23.21`	`purl`	`oh, fukc...`
`13:23.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Codayus, to much adapting the logs for`
`13:23.43`	`Codayus`	`heh`
`13:23.51`	`[MoonWolf]`	`the lines i capture now are perfect fit for him.`
`13:24.04`	`Tekkub`	`~ponder`
`13:24.05`	`purl`	`Wuh, I think so, tekkub, but if we didn't have ears, we'd look like weasels.`
`13:24.34`	`[MoonWolf]`	`he is going to be saner if he gets some more days of logs in.`
`13:36.55`	*** join/##ace ag` (n=Andreas@0x50c4844b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk)
`13:39.32`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@a80-127-128-193.adsl.xs4all.nl)`
`13:41.26`	id`	`hood thing you aren't making him log on quakenet`
`13:41.26`	id`	`^^`
`13:41.42`	id`	`good, even`
`13:41.56`	*** join/##ace ag` (i=Default@0x50c4844b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk)
`13:42.56`	id`	`i wish to be amused while eating BK`
`13:43.00`	id`	`speak!`
`13:43.10`	id`	`... google video it is`
`13:43.11`	`Wobin_`	`arf`
`13:44.35`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lol`
`13:56.13`	`Tekkub`	`god I plan too much and code too litte :P`
`13:56.30`	`Tekkub`	`I need to finish up my current mods before I start an Aced CTRABM`
`14:02.09`	`Wobin_`	`BM?`
`14:04.28`	`Codayus`	`bossmod`
`14:04.34`	`Codayus`	`oh, wait - sleep.`
`14:04.35`	`Codayus`	`right`
`14:04.38`	`Codayus`	`gone`
`14:31.03`	id`	`ZING!`
`14:31.07`	`[MoonWolf]`	see id` agrees with me.
`14:31.32`	id`	`i think that name sucks though, so i call it ess que ell`
`14:32.06`	id`	`actually, eskuel`
`14:32.07`	id`	`:p`
`14:34.33`	`otravi`	`Tekkub: yay`
`14:58.16`	`*** join/##ace ckknight (n=ckknight@24-136-27-242.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com)`
`14:59.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Hlaalu : my mom outta this! :P`
`15:00.24`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Hlaalu: llike a real mess... Is that me or perl, or an integrated web language`
`15:58.27`	`*** join/##ace Slayman^work (i=Slayman@c195015.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`16:15.26`	`Slayman`	`regarding WatchDog what am i doing wrong that i don't have a target of target frame?`
`16:29.19`	`*** join/##ace haste (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no)`
`16:30.59`	`Slayman`	`haha got it ^^`
`16:34.22`	`*** join/##ace haste_ (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no)`
`16:35.50`	`*** join/##ace [MoonWolf] (n=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`16:44.38`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252)`
`16:45.18`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252)`
`16:45.37`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252)`
`16:46.47`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252)`
`16:46.58`	`[MoonWolf]`	`tem what going on ?`
`16:47.29`	`*** join/##ace Cairenn (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`16:47.59`	`haste_`	`Hope he isn't having the same problem as me at least :<`
`16:48.22`	`otravi`	`me X is locking up all the time suddenly =\`
`16:48.29`	`otravi`	`which was a problem I fixed ages ago`
`16:48.34`	`otravi`	`but it just came back :-(`
`17:01.17`	`Tem`	`[MoonWolf]: client ran out of nicks to try so it was connecting and disconnecting over and over`
`17:01.25`	`[MoonWolf]`	`:(`
`17:11.12`	`Slayman`	`ok so far so good i kinda like this WatchDog thingy`
`17:15.43`	`*** join/##ace Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com)`
`17:47.03`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Am I crazy, or would this somehow actually work? http://ace.pastebin.com/601675`
`17:47.31`	`Ratbert_CP`	`BTW, Kaelten suxxors... ;) As does Tekkub... ;)`
`17:49.38`	`ckknight`	`Ratbert_CP, line 9, where is self declared?`
`17:50.30`	`Ratbert_CP`	`In the misty, murky depths of my mind... i.e., nowhere... :P`
`17:50.57`	`Ratbert_CP`	`There...`
`17:51.08`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Should be ItemDataCache.GetItemData, not sel...`
`17:51.17`	`ckknight`	`okay`
`17:51.52`	`ckknight`	`if you have a __index, shouldn't you have a __newindex?`
`17:52.03`	`ckknight`	`least I think that's what it is`
`17:52.28`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Nope. I don't want to fiddle with how table assignments are done, just how lookups are done.`
`17:52.39`	`ckknight`	`rawset`
`17:52.47`	`Ratbert_CP`	`i.e., If you lookujp data that doesn't exist, find it and add it.`
`17:54.20`	`ckknight`	`okay, line 9, shouldn't you check to see if table[key] isn't already set?`
`17:54.27`	`Ratbert_CP`	`In theory, I want to be able to do something like this: local Quality = ItemDataCache[link][quality] and not worry about getting the data myself`
`17:54.31`	`ckknight`	`so that you don't duplicate work?`
`17:54.37`	`Ratbert_CP`	`If it's set, __index is never called...`
`17:54.47`	`ckknight`	`oh yea`
`17:54.50`	`Ratbert_CP`	`At least, that's how I understand it...`
`17:54.59`	`ckknight`	`you need to do a rawset`
`17:55.05`	`ckknight`	`your code will make an infinite loop`
`17:55.06`	`Ratbert_CP`	`I don't think so...`
`17:55.08`	`ckknight`	`wait`
`17:55.08`	`ckknight`	`no`
`17:55.14`	`ckknight`	`you would if you had a __newindex`
`17:55.15`	`ckknight`	`blah`
`17:55.17`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Right.`
`17:55.28`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Hence not monkeying with __newindex... :)`
`17:55.58`	`ckknight`	`looks cool`
`17:56.27`	`ckknight`	`wait, your new function looks screwy`
`17:56.48`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Yeah, that's one of my "huh?" issues. Damned new functions...`
`17:56.49`	`ckknight`	`you're gonna want to do ItemDataCache:new(), right?`
`17:57.23`	`Ratbert_CP`	`I C&P from PiL...`
`17:57.38`	`ckknight`	`well, let me just tell you it'll act screwy`
`17:57.50`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Right. This is just the definition, no actual usefulness in the code.`
`17:58.19`	`Ratbert_CP`	`To actually use it, you'd need a DataCache = ItemDataCache:new()`
`17:58.24`	`ckknight`	`yea`
`17:58.31`	`ckknight`	`is that what you want?`
`17:58.42`	`ckknight`	`or do you want to just call ItemDataCache[itemLink]?`
`17:59.03`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Good point. I should add the constructor...`
`17:59.37`	`ckknight`	`if you just want to call ItemDataCache[itemLink], then you don't need a constructor`
`18:00.16`	`ckknight`	`lemme show you what I'm thinking...`
`18:00.16`	`Ratbert_CP`	`?`
`18:01.23`	`ckknight`	`yea, just take out ItemDataCache.new altogether`
`18:01.35`	`ckknight`	`I don't see a point, unless you want more than one cache`
`18:01.38`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Ah...`
`18:01.40`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Right.`
`18:01.42`	`Ratbert_CP`	`D'oh!`
`18:01.59`	`Ratbert_CP`	`This is why I'm an "architect", and not a "developer"... :)`
`18:02.22`	`ckknight`	`you can always fill both roles`
`18:02.23`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Or is that backwards?...`
`18:02.35`	`ckknight`	`I don't know`
`18:02.36`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Just want one.`
`18:02.40`	`ckknight`	`I do both`
`18:02.50`	`ckknight`	`never had to think about it`
`18:03.52`	`Ratbert_CP`	`So more like that? (Tweaked the pastebin)`
`18:04.16`	`ckknight`	`looks about right`
`18:04.44`	`ckknight`	`your GetItemData(id) looks pretty messed up`
`18:04.58`	`Ratbert_CP`	`How so?`
`18:05.05`	`Ratbert_CP`	`I ripped it from KC_Items... ;)`
`18:05.16`	`ckknight`	`then Kc_items needs some work`
`18:05.20`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Heh...`
`18:05.27`	`ckknight`	`you're overwriting data altogether`
`18:05.34`	`Ratbert_CP`	`That's all me...`
`18:05.40`	`ckknight`	`it's not longer an ItemData at line 15`
`18:05.43`	`ckknight`	`no*`
`18:05.44`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Yeah...`
`18:05.50`	`ckknight`	`yea`
`18:05.51`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Hrm...`
`18:05.55`	`ckknight`	`set each field directly`
`18:06.04`	`ckknight`	`data.name = name`
`18:06.05`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Ouch.`
`18:06.07`	`ckknight`	`or....`
`18:06.11`	`ckknight`	`lemme draw up some code`
`18:06.40`	`ckknight`	`btw, your ItemData.new is also messed up`
`18:07.28`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@204.90.50.252)`
`18:08.21`	`ckknight`	`btw, you're messy`
`18:08.39`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Yes, yes I am. Ask my wife... :)`
`18:08.50`	`ckknight`	`meh`
`18:09.02`	`ckknight`	`my apartment's a mess`
`18:09.12`	`ckknight`	`but I'm just talking about code`
`18:09.18`	`ckknight`	`I try to keep mine nice and clean`
`18:09.22`	`ckknight`	`keyword: try`
`18:09.23`	`Ratbert_CP`	`The ItemData.new is a direct C&P from the PiL book... (I think)`
`18:09.36`	`ckknight`	`just keep yer kilt on`
`18:12.41`	`ckknight`	`you also forgot a return on GetItemData`
`18:12.44`	`ckknight`	`http://ace.pastebin.com/601723`
`18:14.26`	`Ratbert_CP`	`OK, I see... Cool...`
`18:14.36`	`ckknight`	`thumbs up`
`18:14.40`	`ckknight`	`crappy bugs suck.`
`18:14.45`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Better variable names means I understand a bit better... Damned Rowne... ;)`
`18:15.10`	`ckknight`	`also, change ItemDataCache.mt.__index's "table" to "self"`
`18:15.18`	`ckknight`	`don't overwrite globals, it's icky`
`18:15.47`	`ckknight`	`also you mix the function alpha() syntax with alpha = function() syntax`
`18:16.32`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Yeah... More C&P side-effects...`
`18:16.54`	`ckknight`	`hang on, I'm gonna see if I can clean all of it...`
`18:17.10`	`ckknight`	`what does __mode = "v" do?`
`18:21.15`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Makes the table weak. i.e., if the table is theonly reference to the object, it can be collected.`
`18:21.37`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Self-flushing cache...`
`18:21.37`	`ckknight`	`ah, okay`
`18:22.08`	`ckknight`	`http://ace.pastebin.com/601743`
`18:22.57`	`ckknight`	`that's just my style, though`
`18:23.03`	`ckknight`	`does the same thing as the last link`
`18:23.50`	`ckknight`	`also, you could have it so that the GetItemData function isn't visible to the outside`
`18:24.00`	`ckknight`	`and the only way to access items is through ItemDataCache[itemLink]`
`18:24.10`	`ckknight`	`may not be what you want, though`
`18:24.59`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Actually, that would be perfect...`
`18:25.06`	`ckknight`	`okay`
`18:25.11`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Thanks!`
`18:26.54`	`kergoth`	`also, there's no reason to put your itemdata metatable in the itemdata namespace. make it a local`
`18:27.03`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Now to tweak it to manage item IDs usefully (i.e., PT uses just the first part of the link, wheras KC_Items uses parts 1 and 3...)`
`18:27.18`	`ckknight`	`oh, you're right, kergoth`
`18:27.35`	`[MoonWolf]`	`he is most of the time.`
`18:28.46`	`kergoth`	`minor cleanup, setmetatable returns the object it just attached the metatable to`
`18:28.55`	`kergoth`	`return setmetatable(o, ItemData_mt)`
`18:28.56`	`ckknight`	`yea, kergoth`
`18:29.02`	`ckknight`	`http://ace.pastebin.com/601759`
`18:29.17`	`kergoth`	`ah right :)`
`18:29.39`	`Ratbert_CP`	`You guys rock... Make me look smart, but feel slow... :)`
`18:29.49`	`ckknight`	`lol`
`18:29.56`	`kergoth`	`whats the use case for this cache?`
`18:30.27`	`Ratbert_CP`	`BagBoy. I want to keep details on current inventory (for eventual rules-based sell/trash/bank-o-matic)`
`18:31.27`	`Ratbert_CP`	`So there's a max cache size of 16 + 4* (capacity of biggest bag)`
`18:31.54`	`Ratbert_CP`	`But other addons might want similar functionality.`
`18:32.14`	`ckknight`	`Ratbert_CP, why even have an ItemData type? why not just set auction = 0, bid = 0, sell = 0 outright?`
`18:33.18`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Because I'll eventually want to pull it from KC_Items/LootLink/Auctioneer, etc. Setting it to 0 is currently just s placeholder...`
`18:33.28`	`ckknight`	`ah, okay`
`18:33.58`	`kergoth`	`Ratbert_CP: i presume you have a seperate table holding references to the itemdata for each of the bag slots?`
`18:33.59`	`ckknight`	`still, that can be done in the ItemDataCache part instead of having a whole new type for doing that`
`18:34.12`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Although I may be getting too tricky with metamethods for my own good... :)`
`18:34.28`	`Ratbert_CP`	`kergoth: Yes.`
`18:34.37`	`kergoth`	`ckknight: it depends on when he wants to be looking up the prices. i could see wanting to obtain the prices more often than the initial item data lookup. shrug`
`18:35.07`	`ckknight`	`then he shouldn't be setting the value of it`
`18:35.12`	`ckknight`	`it should be a lookup every time`
`18:35.19`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Actually, I think pricing may be best left to the consumer addon, since this is low-level stuff...`
`18:35.23`	`kergoth`	`just throwing out possibilities`
`18:35.47`	`Ratbert_CP`	`I don't want this to be dependant on other addons...`
`18:35.50`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Hmmm...`
`18:36.09`	`ckknight`	`optional dependencies?`
`18:36.18`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Not even them... :)`
`18:36.31`	`Ratbert_CP`	`OK, I have to reboot. I'll be back in a few...`
`18:36.41`	`kergoth`	`hmmm.`
`18:37.41`	`*** part/##ace Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com)`
`18:39.37`	`kergoth`	`there may be an efficiency issue with the cache. since the values are weak, they'll vanish as they stop being used, right, but only when the gc runs. say he removes 3 items from his item data storage table, then adds 3 new ones. those 3 new ones could hit the cache before the old ones get freed, which could easily result in the cache table being grown to the next size by lua (2^x), then shrunk once the first new element is added (lu`
`18:40.00`	`kergoth`	`which seems silly, if you want the cache to be a fixed size anyway, as in his case`
`18:40.12`	`kergoth`	`dunno if itd have any real effects in the field, but..`
`18:40.33`	*** join/##ace ag` (i=Default@0x50c4844b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk)
`18:40.50`	`ckknight`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:40.55`	`ckknight`	`you got cut off there`
`18:41.04`	`kergoth`	`ua only shrinks tables on non-nil`
`18:41.04`	`kergoth`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:41.07`	`kergoth`	`silly irc`
`18:42.07`	`*** join/##ace Ratbert_CP (n=kcummins@proxy-ce1.disney.com)`
`18:45.02`	`kergoth`	`as an example of table sizing behavior that came up on the lua list recently, see http://ace.pastebin.com/602029`
`18:45.34`	`kergoth`	`inserts 10000 integers into a table, then removes all but one, and the table stays huge, taking up the same amount of ram as it did before the table.remove's`
`18:45.51`	`kergoth`	`but if you do a t.foo = bar after the removes, poof, its small again`
`18:45.53`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`18:46.48`	`[MoonWolf]`	`what would bar be in this case ?`
`18:50.23`	`kergoth`	`anything that isnt nil`
`18:50.41`	`kergoth`	`any non-nil non-array assignment will result in lua seeing if it needs to resize the table`
`18:55.05`	`ckknight`	`that doesn't seem...right`
`18:55.06`	`[MoonWolf]`	`k`
`18:58.10`	`*** join/##ace Eraphine\|Lab (n=Eraphine@brenna.human.cornell.edu)`
`18:58.27`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`if I'm breaking out of the loop with a return`
`18:58.32`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`am I returning end ?`
`18:58.38`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`or is end just the end of that block ?`
`18:58.40`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`like..`
`18:58.45`	`ckknight`	`you're returning nil`
`18:58.57`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`so return by itself defaults to nil`
`18:59.00`	`ckknight`	`end is just the end of the block`
`18:59.01`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`and end just ends the function or conditional`
`18:59.06`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`gotcha`
`18:59.09`	`ckknight`	`actually not sure if it does return nil`
`18:59.14`	`ckknight`	`think it just returns nothing`
`18:59.19`	`ckknight`	`which is less than nil`
`18:59.38`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I they're the same thing`
`18:59.43`	`ckknight`	`nope`
`19:00.12`	`ckknight`	`alpha = function(...) print(table.getn(arg)) end`
`19:00.20`	`ckknight`	`bravo = function() return end`
`19:00.26`	`ckknight`	`charlie = function() return nil end`
`19:00.35`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I bet both are nil`
`19:00.36`	`ckknight`	`alpha(bravo()) == 0`
`19:00.40`	`ckknight`	`alpha(charlie()) == 1`
`19:00.44`	`ckknight`	`lemme check if I'm right, though`
`19:01.17`	`ckknight`	`yep, I am`
`19:01.28`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`so even nil is a return`
`19:01.32`	`ckknight`	`yep`
`19:01.40`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I thought nil was 0`
`19:01.43`	`ckknight`	`you can return nil, nil`
`19:01.48`	`ckknight`	`nil is not 0`
`19:01.59`	`ckknight`	`delta = function() return nil, nil end`
`19:02.02`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`what's the whole basis for ACE being only true or nil?`
`19:02.03`	`ckknight`	`alpha(delta()) == 2`
`19:02.08`	`ckknight`	`TRUE == 1`
`19:02.11`	`ckknight`	`FALSE == nil`
`19:02.26`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`0 is also false right? but it takes up more space than nil?`
`19:02.28`	`ckknight`	`TRUE ~= true`
`19:02.30`	`ckknight`	`FALSE ~= false`
`19:02.38`	`ckknight`	`no, only nil and false are "false".`
`19:02.47`	`ckknight`	`not 0 == true`
`19:02.50`	`ckknight`	`wait`
`19:02.52`	`ckknight`	`not 0 == false`
`19:03.06`	`ckknight`	`not 0 == not 1`
`19:04.00`	`*** join/##ace Tain (n=pmallett@ip68-109-28-84.ri.ri.cox.net)`
`19:04.07`	`ckknight`	`function tobool(value) return not not value end`
`19:04.31`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`return breaks out of a function completely right? not out the immediate block`
`19:04.40`	`ckknight`	`if you look at it that way, only tobool(nil) and tobool(false) are false, everything else return true`
`19:04.44`	`ckknight`	`right, Eraphine`
`19:04.51`	`ckknight`	`"break" gets out of the immediate block`
`19:05.19`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`Hrm...`
`19:05.26`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I guess I have a conceptual programming question`
`19:05.26`	`Tain`	`Just make sure the return is immediately before an end or else.`
`19:05.39`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`Let's say I'm using if then else`
`19:05.42`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (i=moonwolf@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`19:05.44`	`ckknight`	`alright`
`19:05.48`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`why not just if then blah return end, and start a new block.`
`19:06.07`	`ckknight`	`why not?`
`19:06.12`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`19:06.14`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`what's the difference?`
`19:06.16`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`is there any?`
`19:06.18`	`Tain`	`Works the same way.`
`19:06.33`	`kergoth`	`just personal style. whatever you prefer`
`19:06.39`	`ckknight`	`if something then DoSomething(); return end works fine`
`19:06.42`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`Like right now, I'm working on making a customized macro to cycle through a series of skills and abilities`
`19:06.51`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`just for myself`
`19:07.07`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`and since I can only use "one" hardware keypress at a time I need to make sure it only does one thing at a time`
`19:07.39`	`ckknight`	`okay`
`19:07.39`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I always thought returns were messy, I wanted to use if then else and nested ifs all they down`
`19:07.58`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`then I noticed it makes more sense for me to just return the function as soon as I've used up my hardware press`
`19:08.01`	`ckknight`	`empty returns are handy for stopping a function`
`19:08.06`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`yeah`
`19:08.12`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I mean.. return out of the function`
`19:08.23`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`hehe - much simplier than if then else if then else if then`
`19:08.31`	`ckknight`	`yea`
`19:08.38`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`But look at how most people write event managers`
`19:08.39`	`Tain`	`For me if you start getting into a bunch of cases I don't like using else, but if it's just a couple of things I do. But that's completely "gut reaction" sort of feeling about it.`
`19:08.42`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`it's all if then elseif`
`19:09.16`	`ckknight`	`yea?`
`19:09.30`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`I guess that's to avoid having to check the arg1 over and over again`
`19:09.32`	`Tain`	`Plus I think some people do the long elseif blocks because they can't use case blocks.`
`19:09.51`	`Tain`	`or switch`
`19:09.55`	`ckknight`	`having a switch-case would be handy`
`19:10.51`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`hrm...`
`19:11.53`	`kergoth`	`ckknight: you can do the same thing with a table of value->function`
`19:11.58`	`Tain`	`One thing you can do instead is having a table of the "options" you'd have. So instead of doing if a then if b then if c then create the table of functions.`
`19:12.03`	`Tain`	`haha yeah what kergoth said.`
`19:12.09`	`kergoth`	`:))`
`19:12.37`	`Tain`	`So you don't do any checks. You execute mytable[value]`
`19:12.38`	`ckknight`	`yea, I know you can do that`
`19:12.42`	`ckknight`	`but it seems messy`
`19:12.51`	`kergoth`	`seems pretty clean to me`
`19:12.54`	`ckknight`	`and can be written poorly`
`19:13.01`	`kergoth`	`thats essentially all a case statement is anyway, a lookup table.`
`19:13.02`	`ckknight`	`especially if you don't reuse the table`
`19:13.04`	`Tain`	`Really? I thought it seemed neat. :) But it might also be because I've never thought of using anything like that before Lua.`
`19:13.14`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`Why does IsUsableAction return true if it is on cooldown.`
`19:13.19`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`that seems non-intuitive.`
`19:14.18`	`kergoth`	`local mylookuptable={foo=function() print("hi mom") end} function myfunctionthatusesit(v) return mylookuptable[v]() end`
`19:14.27`	`Ratbert_CP`	`It's still a usable action, just not right now...`
`19:14.35`	`ckknight`	`yea, I want the lookup table right there`
`19:14.44`	`ckknight`	`instead of having to declare it beforehand`
`19:14.56`	`kergoth`	`for what? it doesnt gain you anything`
`19:15.13`	`[MoonWolf]`	`informatios is a good example of this`
`19:15.20`	`ckknight`	`kergoth: code readability?`
`19:15.23`	`[MoonWolf]`	`s/tios/tips/`
`19:15.35`	`kergoth`	`a table of value to action is hard to read?`
`19:15.40`	`kergoth`	`its pretty clear to me`
`19:16.09`	`kergoth`	`since thats all a case statement is.`
`19:16.10`	`ckknight`	`kergoth, if the table is declared somewhere else`
`19:16.18`	`Tain`	`Ah it's just more personal likes.`
`19:16.30`	`kergoth`	`its declared outside the function because creating it in the function would be horribly inefficient, creating a new lookup table on each call`
`19:16.34`	`kergoth`	`indeed, just code style preference`
`19:16.44`	`kergoth`	`theres no functional or conceptual difference between a lookup table and a case statement`
`19:17.06`	`kergoth`	`personally, they're just as readable, since when i read a case statement, thats what i see anyway, a lookup table`
`19:17.32`	`ckknight`	`I see a series of if-elseif-else statements`
`19:17.40`	`kergoth`	`that isnt what it is under the hood.`
`19:17.44`	`ckknight`	`least that's what I did when I worked on that part of Boo`
`19:17.46`	`kergoth`	`in C, anyway`
`19:17.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`but that is exactly what a case is NOT`
`19:18.11`	`[MoonWolf]`	`at least the way i understand it.`
`19:18.50`	`ckknight`	`I'm used to .NET, which does it through if-else if-elses`
`19:18.59`	`ckknight`	`not with a lookup table`
`19:20.01`	`kergoth`	`that's quite a bit less efficient in most cases, when you have an efficient table. thats O(n), doing an explicit comparison against each value`
`19:20.16`	`kergoth`	`in the lua table case, its a hash table under the hood`
`19:20.21`	`kergoth`	`which is decidedly not O(n)`
`19:21.05`	`kergoth`	`regardless, just preference. lots of people would agree with you, see the lua users wiki regarding case statements`
`19:21.22`	`ckknight`	`why not put a switch-case into lua proper?`
`19:21.29`	`ckknight`	`using lookup tables, if you want`
`19:21.41`	`kergoth`	`because that isnt how lua works.`
`19:22.04`	`ckknight`	`c'mon...`
`19:22.12`	`kergoth`	`lua's philosophy is to provide you the basic mechanisms to do everything, thats all`
`19:22.21`	`kergoth`	`they dont pull every stupid syntactic sugary thing into the language`
`19:22.26`	`ckknight`	`that also why there isn't a continue statement?`
`19:22.30`	`kergoth`	`which is why it's the way it is today`
`19:23.05`	`kergoth`	`dont know about that one`
`19:23.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i thought lua was designed to make people think "wow, WTF, i didnt know that was even possible"`
`19:23.54`	`ckknight`	`and also why <var> += <num> doesn't exist?`
`19:24.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`that fall straight into the syntactic sugar category i think.`
`19:25.01`	`ckknight`	`yes, but doing aVeryLongVariableName = aVeryLongVariableName + 1 is a bitch`
`19:26.05`	`ckknight`	`it's still not pretty afterwards.`
`19:26.08`	`[MoonWolf]`	`and dont make verylongvariablenamescausethisisbitchtoread EvenWhenNotatedAsThis.`
`19:26.30`	`kergoth`	`ckknight: see the patches for continue statement and mutate operators on http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaPowerPatches`
`19:26.45`	`ckknight`	`I know about those, kergoth`
`19:26.53`	`ckknight`	`but I can't use em in WoW, cause it's not standard`
`19:29.09`	`ckknight`	`[MoonWolf], sometimes it's better to, in cases like WorldFrame_OnUpdate or what have you`
`19:30.20`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yeah`
`19:30.21`	`[MoonWolf]`	`that is true.`
`19:32.36`	`kergoth`	`i wonder if lhf or roberto have made an official statement on switch or continue`
`19:34.09`	`kergoth`	`on another note.. http://labix.org/lunatic-python .. twisted`
`19:35.26`	`ckknight`	`hrm`
`19:37.15`	`[MoonWolf]`	`people make weird stuff.`
`19:37.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`whats next, a python implementation in lua built in perl on ruby on rails ?`
`19:42.25`	`kergoth`	`12:14 < chouimat> A father picks up his son after school and asks him how his day has been.`
`19:42.29`	`kergoth`	`12:14 < chouimat> "Great dad, today they give me my part at the school play," says the boy.`
`19:42.31`	`kergoth`	`12:14 < chouimat> "Really? And what do you play?" asks the father.`
`19:42.34`	`kergoth`	`12:14 < chouimat> "I play a man who has been married for twenty years."`
`19:42.37`	`kergoth`	`12:14 < chouimat> "That's nice son," says the father, "you do a good job and one day they'll give you a peaking role."`
`19:43.53`	`ckknight`	`I don't get it`
`19:44.27`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`19:45.10`	`[MoonWolf]`	`okay im going to leave Hlaalu in here for a while`
`19:45.29`	`[MoonWolf]`	`he is actually generating responese right now but dumping them in a console on my screen instead of to irc.`
`19:46.05`	`otravi`	`:<`
`19:46.19`	`otravi`	`does it try to genereate itself, or just quote people?`
`19:46.25`	`[MoonWolf]`	`otravi@##ace: PerlJam: read the partition`
`19:46.36`	`[MoonWolf]`	`thats what it said to your :<`
`19:46.46`	`[MoonWolf]`	`it interprents what people say into word that go togheter`
`19:46.53`	`[MoonWolf]`	`read up on markov chain if you want to understand.`
`19:47.39`	`[MoonWolf]`	`[MoonWolf]@##ace: well ati-drivers after 8.14.13 are just machine code waiting to happen when the frame is hidden by default anyway <- see he sometimes makes som sort of sense.`
`19:48.00`	`otravi`	`ah, it's pircbot :D`
`19:48.23`	`[MoonWolf]`	`yeah it uses that to interface with irc`
`19:48.33`	`[MoonWolf]`	`im not going to write all taht code for a simple bot myself.`
`19:54.36`	`otravi`	`hehe`
`19:56.54`	`kergoth`	`didnt realize that functions defined in another function inherit the parent function's environment. thats good.`
`19:57.51`	`ckknight`	`yep.`
`20:01.11`	`*** join/##ace Tem (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`20:01.25`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`20:05.11`	`kergoth`	`hehe, yet another sick and twisted implementation of super()`
`20:05.47`	`kergoth`	`at least this one doesnt use functions in debug. :P`
`20:08.44`	`kergoth`	`http://ace.pastebin.com/602240`
`20:11.56`	`Slayman`	`we see Princess Huhuran for the first time i hate this game`
`20:13.32`	`otravi`	`:<`
`20:24.08`	`Slayman`	`tactics talk in TS`
`20:24.17`	`Slayman`	`can't we surpass her?`
`20:24.35`	`Tem`	`kergoth: http://ace.pastebin.com/602277`
`20:25.00`	`kergoth`	`Tem: doesnt work.`
`20:25.05`	`Tem`	`yeah it does`
`20:25.07`	`Tem`	`I just tested`
`20:25.10`	`kergoth`	`no, not for all cases it doesnt.`
`20:25.19`	`Tem`	`give me an example then`
`20:25.54`	`kergoth`	`look at my pastebin. you didnt test enough levels deep of inheritence.`
`20:26.55`	`kergoth`	`you end up passing your object to your parent class, then that object to eh parent of the parent, but that function can no longer determine what calss its in. self.__super was only valid at the first level`
`20:27.00`	`kergoth`	`self is the _object_, not the class`
`20:27.28`	`kergoth`	`if you're 5 levels deep, and all you have is the original object, theres no way to know how many levels deep you are or what class's method you're in`
`20:27.31`	`kergoth`	`so you cant determine the superclass of it`
`20:28.03`	`Tem`	`yeah I see what you're saying`
`20:28.09`	`kergoth`	`if you were always passing the class to its superclass as self, you'd be fine, but you arent, you're passing the original object`
`20:28.14`	`kergoth`	`which is annoying as hell`
`20:28.30`	`kergoth`	`look at my other one, its disgusting`
`20:28.30`	`Tem`	`I think it would work if each level created it's own new method`
`20:28.32`	`kergoth`	`:D`
`20:28.58`	`kergoth`	`you need to give the methods a way to always be able to refer to their class`
`20:29.34`	`kergoth`	`you can do that just by defining it or the superclass as a local when you define the methods, so it gets closed in as an upvalue`
`20:29.58`	`kergoth`	`but the goal is to have a genericall useful super that the developer doesnt have to have explicit code to make work`
`20:30.08`	`Tem`	`yeah`
`20:30.21`	`kergoth`	`now, if you use the 5.1 package model for your classes..`
`20:30.31`	`kergoth`	`remember that model, where defining the module entered you into the module's namespace?`
`20:30.41`	`kergoth`	`module("foobar") put you inside of foobar`
`20:31.05`	`Tem`	`rofl... mine did a stack overflow when I called unitsquare:init()`
`20:31.09`	`kergoth`	`if you use that, then the method's environment is always the module. if the module is the class, then function super() return getfenv(2).__super end would work`
`20:31.19`	`kergoth`	`yeah, exactly`
`20:31.26`	`kergoth`	`cause square ends up calling its own init, iirc`
`20:31.26`	id`	`kergoth: you are being poked`
`20:31.31`	id`	`:P`
`20:35.48`	`kergoth`	`Tem: http://ace.pastebin.com/602299`
`20:41.41`	`kergoth`	`Tem: is that disgusting or what? i maintain a weak keyed/valued table of methods to class, and use debug.getinfo() to get a reference to the function that called super to look up the class`
`20:41.41`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`20:41.42`	`Tem`	`if debub.getinfo was more widely available, I would prefer that over the environment approach`
`20:41.42`	`kergoth`	`yeah, because it doesnt slow every global lookup in teh method`
`20:41.42`	`kergoth`	`just the super() call`
`20:41.42`	`Tem`	`oh`
`20:41.43`	`Tem`	`also it won't work if that method hasn't been called before`
`20:41.43`	`Tem`	`it has to be called from it's original class for you function to cache it`
`20:41.43`	`Tem`	`oh nevermind`
`20:41.43`	`kergoth`	`no, it gets added to the map when you define the function`
`20:41.43`	`Tem`	`that would only break it if you defined stuff in the constructor`
`20:41.43`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`20:41.44`	`Tem`	`and I hate that style`
`20:41.44`	`Tem`	`so fuck them`
`20:41.44`	`kergoth`	`now, lua 5.1's package model already does an environment approach. a call to module() sets your current env to that of the module table`
`20:41.44`	`kergoth`	`which means all functions defined there pick up taht environment`
`20:41.45`	`Tem`	`aye`
`20:41.45`	`kergoth`	`so i guess i could follow that approach, since they're doing it anyway for modules`
`20:41.45`	`kergoth`	`still unpleasant`
`20:41.45`	`Tem`	`but the problem is that you still force the dev into a specific style`
`20:42.12`	`Tem`	`kergoth: how famillirar are you with java?`
`20:43.02`	`kergoth`	`not at all, never learned it. never got a degree, so was never forced to`
`20:43.03`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`20:43.44`	`Tem`	`I've got a peculiar issue`
`20:44.41`	`Tem`	`I have a File object that returns true for the methods canRead and exists`
`20:44.42`	`Tem`	`but when I try to use it, I get a FileNotFoundException`
`20:44.42`	`Tem`	`it's really odd`
`20:54.13`	`kergoth`	`Tem: http://ace.pastebin.com/602338`
`20:54.19`	`kergoth`	`hmm, odd`
`20:55.21`	`Tem`	`still messy`
`20:56.30`	`kergoth`	`well, normally those classes would be in seperate files`
`20:56.45`	`kergoth`	`so you wouldnt need explicit returns to the global namespace`
`20:57.49`	`kergoth`	`but its just essentially what i did in the one that explicitly set the function environments, just implemented slightly differently`
`20:57.52`	`kergoth`	`ah well`
`21:00.48`	`kergoth`	`anyway, teh whole idea of a magic super() is kinda silly. it really isnt that hard to have explicit calls to the superclass method`
`21:00.59`	`kergoth`	`Square.initialize(self)`
`21:08.13`	`pagefault`	`one of the addons is crashing wine`
`21:08.17`	`pagefault`	`I can't figure out which one it is yet heh`
`21:12.46`	`Slayman`	`pre Berzerk she's a piece of cake but that berzerk is the illest shit ever invented by blizz`
`21:16.17`	`otravi`	`crashing wine?`
`21:17.04`	`otravi`	`not even I have managed that yet :<`
`21:32.35`	`[MoonWolf]`	`wow`
`21:32.49`	`[MoonWolf]`	`hlaalu is outputting semi sensible stuff`
`21:34.39`	`[MoonWolf]`	`http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6258/naamloos0ya.jpg`
`21:34.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`look at that`
`21:36.57`	`Ratbert_CP`	`Piffle! The wombats are semi-literate dilettantes with halitosis and an off-center messiah complex...`
`21:39.19`	`kergoth`	`Tem: http://ace.pastebin.com/602429 isnt a bad way of doing that super stuff. requires taht the user do some work, but the class function provides the convenience return value`
`21:40.04`	`Tem`	`yeah that's not bad`
`21:40.30`	`*** join/##ace pagefault (n=pagefaul@Toronto-HSE-ppp3858418.sympatico.ca)`
`21:40.53`	`kergoth`	`Tem: with that one, at least you dont have to change the superclass in multiple places if you change it, which is better than the direct referencing approach`
`21:40.56`	`kergoth`	`guess i'll use that`
`21:41.04`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Ratbert_CP, all the status frames together and go out for beer and wings. <- that is waht hlaalu made of that.`
`21:42.32`	`[MoonWolf]`	`half a mb of logfiles to work on :P`
`21:46.01`	*** join/##ace ag` (i=Default@0x50c4844b.adsl-fixed.tele.dk)
`21:47.10`	`Tem`	oh ag`! you around?
`21:47.30`	ag`	`yeah`
`21:47.35`	ag`	`what's up?`
`21:50.06`	`kergoth`	`methinks its time to learn about lua's C api.`
`21:51.40`	ag`	`o rly? Going to use it in some project or is it useful in relation to wow? :)`
`21:52.22`	ag`	`Tem, you around? You wanted to ask something I guess...`
`21:52.26`	`kergoth`	`nah, cant load c libs from wow unfortunately. just personal development`
`21:52.43`	`kergoth`	`i coded up an implementation of the c3 linearization for doing multiple inheritence in lua, but the pure lua implementation is slow`
`21:52.48`	`kergoth`	`so itd be a good exercise to do it in C`
`21:52.51`	`kergoth`	`and see how it performs`
`21:52.53`	`Tem`	ag`: I just wanted to say that I'm very impressed with MG2
`21:52.55`	`Tem`	`I really like it`
`21:53.16`	ag`	`hehe`
`21:53.36`	ag`	`Yeah I think it's gotten pretty far too, thanks, but I can't speak for the quality of the coding :)`
`21:53.44`	ag`	`I'm no Ronwe`
`21:54.05`	ag`	`I still think I have a lot of "under the hood" optimizations to do...`
`21:55.02`	ag`	`kergoth, sounds advanced :) I think my C knowledge goes around to writing "hello world", hehe`
`21:55.20`	`kergoth`	`hehe. c/c++ is what i do for a living most of the time`
`21:55.58`	`[MoonWolf]`	`kergoth, the difference is you do it in embedded systems, thats small point makes a big difference.`
`21:56.01`	`kergoth`	`lua is incredibly easy to extend and embed, teh c api looks quite intuitive`
`21:56.42`	`kergoth`	`mostly embedded, along with some development/build tools work. some kernel, some distro/systems, some application/userspace`
`21:56.55`	`kergoth`	`i'd like to get out of embedded, really, im' getting bored`
`21:57.16`	`*** join/##ace pagefault (n=pagefaul@Toronto-HSE-ppp3858418.sympatico.ca)`
`21:57.16`	ag`	`Well I love lua :) But what do I know, the only languages I am cabable of is PHP, XML and Lua...`
`21:57.23`	`pagefault`	`hehe`
`21:57.33`	`[MoonWolf]`	`go learn something usefull`
`21:57.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`loke cobol`
`21:57.38`	`[MoonWolf]`	`like*`
`21:57.39`	`[MoonWolf]`	`:P`
`21:57.42`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`21:57.44`	ag`	`:<`
`21:57.47`	`pagefault`	`ruby is a nice lang`
`21:57.50`	`pagefault`	`I wish WoW used it`
`21:57.53`	`pagefault`	`it is nice for GUI work`
`21:58.05`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`if...`
`21:58.06`	`kergoth`	`lua's a better fit for wow's needs`
`21:58.11`	ag`	`How is python?`
`21:58.16`	ag`	`any good?`
`21:58.19`	id`	`python is cool too`
`21:58.20`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`if a function returns two variables`
`21:58.31`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`and I use if function() then`
`21:58.31`	`pagefault`	`WoW needs emacs`
`21:58.37`	id`	`Eraphine\|Lab: that is cool, so you dont have to return an array as a workaround`
`21:59.12`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`what is it actually checking? just the first return?`
`21:59.18`	`kergoth`	`yep`
`21:59.28`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`is there a way I can ask it to check the 2nd one`
`21:59.30`	`kergoth`	`in that context you get only the first value`
`21:59.30`	`kergoth`	`no`
`21:59.35`	`kergoth`	`not in one line.`
`21:59.40`	`kergoth`	`local a,b = function() if b then .. end`
`21:59.43`	`pagefault`	`I think I will try out the test realm patch`
`21:59.44`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`so... local _,a`
`21:59.50`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`if a then`
`21:59.59`	`kergoth`	`unless you want to construct a table unnecessarily`
`22:00.03`	id`	`and 'for k,v in tbl do end' where k is the key and v the value is also cooler then 'for (k in tbl) {}' where k is the key and tbl[k] is the value :P`
`22:00.09`	`kergoth`	`in which case you can do if {function()}[2] then`
`22:00.25`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`but that is less efficient right?`
`22:00.26`	`kergoth`	`erm, actually i think that needs to be if ({function()})[2] then`
`22:00.29`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`or does it not matter?`
`22:00.37`	`kergoth`	`yep, and puts more pressure on the gc, constructing a table and then throwing it away`
`22:00.44`	`kergoth`	`but if its not in a critical path, maybe it doesnt matter`
`22:00.49`	`kergoth`	`your call`
`22:01.06`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`local variables get created and throw away every time the function is called anyway though right?`
`22:01.19`	`kergoth`	`no.`
`22:01.37`	`kergoth`	`a local variable is just a slot. a placeholder. it doesnt have an existance of its own`
`22:01.40`	`kergoth`	`theres nothing to "create"`
`22:01.42`	`kergoth`	`or "throw away"`
`22:01.48`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`orly`
`22:02.20`	`kergoth`	`its the value that matters. in lua theres no such thing as a "variable" in the traditional sense`
`22:02.28`	`kergoth`	`a global is just a key/value in the global environment table`
`22:02.41`	`[MoonWolf]`	`the variable is like a shortcut (symlink) to a value`
`22:02.42`	`kergoth`	`and a local is just a slot, numerically indexed`
`22:02.46`	`kergoth`	`yeah`
`22:03.01`	`[MoonWolf]`	`and that value can be anything from a function to a string to a table to a integer`
`22:04.00`	`[MoonWolf]`	`the idea pointer comes to mind`
`22:04.17`	`[MoonWolf]`	`but we wont start with that to stop people from getting confused and freightend by the idea.`
`22:04.23`	`kergoth`	`indeed, though in most languages a "pointer" variable does take up some space of its own`
`22:04.26`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`22:04.33`	`kergoth`	`you know whats starting to bug me`
`22:04.50`	`kergoth`	`the fact that most ace modular addons do a fooaddon=aceaddon:new(), then fooaddonmodule = fooaddon:new()`
`22:05.02`	`kergoth`	`the modules arent addons. they shouldtn be inheriting from one`
`22:05.11`	`kergoth`	`isnt holding true to OO concepts`
`22:05.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`they are making new fooaddons ??`
`22:05.48`	`[MoonWolf]`	`someone explain that to them STAT`
`22:05.51`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`they are addons to addons`
`22:05.55`	`kergoth`	`new creates an object and points __index to the superclass`
`22:06.23`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`can you give an example of a modular ace addon that does this?`
`22:06.27`	`kergoth`	`no, their components of an addon. you're mixing up inheirtence and composition.`
`22:06.46`	`kergoth`	`not offhand, at work atm`
`22:07.34`	`kergoth`	`here, lets give an example. typically a class initializes itself and then calls the initialize of its superclass with itself passed as self, since its that object`
`22:07.43`	`kergoth`	`if you want modules to be an addon, fine, they should aceaddon:new()`
`22:07.49`	`kergoth`	`they are _not_ _fooaddon_ objects`
`22:08.17`	`kergoth`	`would you want to call fooaddon.initialize(fooaddonmodule)? unlikely, fooaddon assumes its a real addon and assumes thats one time setup for itself`
`22:09.12`	`kergoth`	`i'd argue that we need to have a seperate mechanism for indicating that relationship between fooaddon and its module, rather than assuming they're instances of fooaddon, which they arent`
`22:09.19`	`kergoth`	`imho naturally`
`22:10.04`	`kergoth`	`well, that rant wasnt all that coherent, but i hope you got the point :)`
`22:10.30`	ag`	`My raidaddon doesn't even have it's own lua :S`
`22:10.57`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`22:10.59`	ag`	`Maybe I should move some of the functions, I dunno`
`22:11.05`	`kergoth`	`is it all in the xml?`
`22:11.38`	ag`	`Most functions are general for all units, so in MG2 I just do a check "if MGraid1 then"`
`22:11.39`	`kergoth`	`to summarize: an addon's modules may be aceaddons, depending on your defintiion, but they're definately not instances of that particular addon`
`22:11.43`	`kergoth`	`ah.`
`22:12.08`	`[MoonWolf]`	`fooaddon:newmodule ?`
`22:12.12`	`[MoonWolf]`	`could be an idea`
`22:13.27`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`hrm...`
`22:13.44`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`so this AQAutomount addon hooks every single Use function in the game..`
`22:14.19`	`kergoth`	`[MoonWolf]: yeah, thats the sort of thing we need. a way to create the module and register it with the addon its associated with`
`22:14.44`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`Is that supported at some level by dependencies?`
`22:14.44`	`[MoonWolf]`	`also it leaves no doubt as to what call to use and what the call does.`
`22:15.14`	`Eraphine\|Lab`	`are req dependencies "modules" of their required dependents.`
`22:15.48`	`kergoth`	`i dont think so, no. dependency isnt composition either. just because i need FOOO doesnt make FOOO a part of me`
`22:16.27`	`kergoth`	`speaking of dependencies, ace needs to handle standby smarter for dpeendent addons`
`22:16.40`	`kergoth`	`if i put foo on standby, and bar needs foo, bar should also go on standby`
`22:16.49`	`ckknight`	`yea`
`22:17.07`	`ckknight`	`and conversely, if foo and bar are on standby, and I enable bar, foo should enable first`
`22:17.14`	`kergoth`	`yup, exactly`
`22:18.38`	`kergoth`	`-maybe- if you disable foo and that results in an automatic disable of bar, you should re-enable bar automatically when foo is enabled? shrug`
`22:18.56`	`kergoth`	`probably best, to avoid unexpected behavior`
`22:21.19`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Okay, i rigged hlaalu to respond to people`
`22:21.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`start a sentence with Hlaalu, or Hlaalu: and be greeted with a friendly but weird response.`
`22:21.58`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`22:22.06`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Hlaalu, hi/`
`22:22.07`	`Hlaalu`	`[MoonWolf]: or a generic name. it also depends on your definition is stable.`
`22:22.39`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: greetings`
`22:22.39`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: what about AL?`
`22:22.49`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: he works at a shoe store`
`22:22.50`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: Azar: to test if pc speaker's mouth. By the way`
`22:29.05`	`*** join/##ace Hlaalu (n=PircBot@f176182.upc-f.chello.nl)`
`22:29.32`	`[MoonWolf]`	`there, safe out of any hostile places`
`22:29.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`im going to leave him gathering logs for a while`
`22:29.51`	`[MoonWolf]`	`the switch him to another server later so i can make him less geeky :P`
`22:41.47`	`kergoth`	`http://pastebin.com/602571 .. i lovei rc`
`22:43.01`	`[MoonWolf]`	`how did he manage that ?`
`22:49.12`	`ckknight`	`Hlaalu, hey`
`22:49.13`	`Hlaalu`	`ckknight: wasn't working, had the balls to tell grub to treat a different monitor mode?`
`22:49.57`	`otravi`	`well, that was related`
`22:50.08`	`[MoonWolf]`	`its going to take a few more days for it to make more sense.`
`22:50.24`	`ckknight`	`lol`
`22:50.33`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Can you count to ten yet?`
`22:50.34`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: can I put /, /boot and swap :-)`
`22:51.02`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: To what extent can monetary policy directly influence the microeconomic environment?`
`22:51.02`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: including stdin/out/err, etc?`
`22:51.11`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Yes.`
`22:51.24`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: BinGOs, that's "want to construct a table and then apt-get`
`22:51.26`	`Codayus`	`Hmm, the first response almost made sense... :-P`
`22:51.26`	`otravi`	`Let me guess, it's in a debian chan :D ?`
`22:51.30`	id`	`tee hee`
`22:51.30`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`22:51.49`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: apt-get? Real men use emerge.`
`22:51.49`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: NO ANSWER THE QUESTION!`
`22:51.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.52`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.53`	`[MoonWolf]`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:52.00`	`otravi`	`yes, emerge ftw!`
`22:52.06`	id`	`pacman ftw`
`22:52.12`	`kergoth`	`dont get me started on portage`
`22:52.13`	`Codayus`	`lol`
`22:52.14`	`ckknight`	`emerge ftw`
`22:52.20`	`ckknight`	`apt-get is sweet, though, too`
`22:52.22`	`kergoth`	`one of my projects was a fork of its codebase`
`22:52.23`	`ckknight`	`so is pacman`
`22:52.25`	`ckknight`	`rpm can blow me.`
`22:52.58`	`kergoth`	`rpm is as good or better than dpkg. most people try to compare it against apt-get, which isnt a fair comparison. apt-get is higher level than that`
`22:53.19`	`[MoonWolf]`	`rpm is a package manager`
`22:53.38`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Did you know that with 5/5 Mental Strength, a priest gains 16.5 mana per point of intelllect?`
`22:53.39`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: too much info on it`
`22:53.39`	`[MoonWolf]`	`emerege and apt are package installation and management systems.`
`22:53.50`	`kergoth`	`right`
`22:53.58`	`Codayus`	`Okay, that actually made a LOT of sense. Scary...`
`22:54.02`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Shamans are underpowered in PvE`
`22:54.02`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: in the hen house, stalking out their mates and pecking at rivals sigh`
`22:54.11`	`kergoth`	`rpm - dpkg - ebuild are at a similar level. yum - apt-get - emerge are higher`
`22:54.28`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`22:54.39`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: VIM ROCKS, EMACS SUCKS!`
`22:54.39`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: k-man: too late .. my death has been broken since like 1.41, right?`
`22:54.56`	id`	`Hlaalu: kergoth is right`
`22:54.56`	`Hlaalu`	id`: to the frame is shown.
`22:55.03`	id`	`damn this bot is fast`
`22:55.06`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Emacs is infintetly better than vim.`
`22:55.06`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: have a clue what to do .. but a good first step.`
`22:55.16`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`22:55.28`	id`	`Hlaalu: emacs is never a good first step`
`22:55.28`	`Hlaalu`	id`: prices should go back very far
`22:55.28`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: The plight of half-elves in this world is deplorable.`
`22:55.29`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: for the hash, you do $H{$key} (The % turned into a do loop`
`22:55.30`	`Codayus`	`It's like some sort of extremely geeky oracle.`
`22:55.31`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Pies can't have babies.`
`22:55.31`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: i cant get rid of`
`22:55.37`	id`	`haha`
`22:55.39`	id`	`lol!`
`22:55.40`	`kergoth`	`hahaha`
`22:55.50`	id`	`Hlaalu: howmany babies do you have?`
`22:55.50`	`Hlaalu`	id`: That's your question; then express mock indignation when it's 'intrusive'
`22:55.54`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: redhat is the devil`
`22:55.54`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: elema: for XML development, XMLSpy home edition is free and provides XML validation`
`22:56.02`	`[MoonWolf]`	`this is what happens if you leave a bot logging in channels like that.`
`22:56.04`	id`	`sickly fast`
`22:56.10`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: boo.`
`22:56.10`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: you are defying everything they hold dear -- their cute little proprietary Mac sofware`
`22:56.15`	`kergoth`	`haha`
`22:56.21`	id`	`owned`
`22:56.22`	id`	`xD`
`22:56.26`	`otravi`	`:D`
`22:56.28`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Would you like a chicken nugget?`
`22:56.30`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: ChrisBradley: set up Heimdal with LDAP as the element is completed`
`22:56.34`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Gief epix?`
`22:56.35`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: docta_v: open a CHILD and PARENT handle and read a root only dir, the sudoer would type $ sudo ls -l /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.* say?`
`22:56.35`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: There is only one language. haskell. All others are weak reflections of that.`
`22:56.36`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: basbryan: use the mouse, but not after.`
`22:56.44`	`kergoth`	`kinky`
`22:56.54`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: what's today?`
`22:56.54`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: in cupsd.conf I've confunded purl`
`22:56.54`	`Codayus`	`basbryan? Hmmm.`
`22:57.03`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: I asked you if you wanted some chicken, bitch.`
`22:57.03`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: do you suggest? I tried connecting the modem in a single pool`
`22:57.15`	id`	`[MoonWolf]: too much debian :P`
`22:57.18`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: TAKE THE DAMN CHICKEN.`
`22:57.19`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: positron: udp scans can have steak whenever you touch it you discharge whatever static electricity that has python in their pants when they're compiled against the "X" to match against the TOC?`
`22:57.19`	`Codayus`	`Yeah, it's DEFIFENTLY got too much debian`
`22:57.22`	`otravi`	`The debian chan has taken a hold in it`
`22:57.27`	`kergoth`	`gods! i have enough distractions without another bot to keep me entertained`
`22:57.28`	id`	`Jarenthal: owned twice`
`22:57.29`	`Codayus`	`Poor thing.`
`22:57.37`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: ubuntu is our friend`
`22:57.37`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: hunmonk: what cammond are you`
`22:57.38`	`Codayus`	`That's cruetly to bots!`
`22:57.39`	`Jarenthal`	`this is hilarious`
`22:57.42`	`ckknight`	`Hlaalu: Do you know the muffin man?`
`22:57.42`	`Hlaalu`	`ckknight: anyone here an nmap guru/know a web server out there is cloop-src and cloop-utils?`
`22:57.44`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: i'm not a cammond`
`22:57.44`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: on the case plugged into a "100,20578MB" lol`
`22:57.50`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: no`
`22:57.50`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: Apachez: more specifically, everything _becomes_ a string argument, or can. None passed?`
`22:57.50`	id`	`Hlaalu: Jarenthal?`
`22:57.51`	`Hlaalu`	id`: have you run it. After it does
`22:58.12`	`Codayus`	`That sounded dirty, somehow...`
`22:58.17`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Where are you from?`
`22:58.18`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: faber2: the same platform as my first distro was BasicLinux which was a very limited quantities though, but I happen to be`
`22:58.24`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Infantry was better when Harmless Games had it...Sony just fudged it up.`
`22:58.25`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: blondie: my last currently has listings for May of last year smelled like soy sauce but was "supposedly" 16.x - doubt it lol`
`22:58.38`	`otravi`	`Infantry was so great :<`
`22:58.51`	`[MoonWolf]`	`okay, ill go and find a way to get all the linux stuff out of him.`
`22:58.57`	id`	`\o/`
`22:58.57`	`kergoth`	`his listings for may of last year smelled like soy sauce?`
`22:59.01`	`Codayus`	`Hmmm, it's bugging a bit - it inserts incorrect names.`
`22:59.02`	id`	`english only`
`22:59.03`	id`	`:p`
`22:59.15`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: You are buggy.`
`22:59.15`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: and a single open from within my program, everything under StarMUD as one`
`22:59.28`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Divide by cucumber error. Please reinstall universe and reboot.`
`22:59.29`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: abrotman: http://dpkg.vireo.org/read-ntfs`
`22:59.32`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Forget StarMUD. let's talk about your bugs.`
`22:59.33`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: someone asked, hence we are talking about`
`22:59.41`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Norway`
`22:59.41`	`Codayus`	`Hey! That maade sense too. :-P`
`22:59.42`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: q[ender]: neither does Date::Format from the dragonkin in winterspring`
`22:59.48`	`otravi`	`errr`
`22:59.51`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: No, nobody asked about StarMUD.`
`22:59.51`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: is the command line option without defeating the purpose of the "options" you'd have to get DDNS on my b-day on sat.. damn it looked likea good compromise`
`23:00.03`	`*** join/##ace Tem_ (n=Tem@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net)`
`23:00.17`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?`
`23:00.17`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: I can only get localtime(time) into a debian unstable style system up and say "It's unskinny bop bop.`
`23:00.20`	`kergoth`	`its like when we first got perl. we're so easily entertained`
`23:00.22`	id`	`Hlaalu: GOLDEN SHOWER FROM AN OLD TART`
`23:00.22`	`Hlaalu`	id`: the partitions that I (livecd'd in) use a combo of Regexp::Common and Email::Address does exactly what mobo i have yet to try.
`23:00.25`	id`	`sorry`
`23:00.26`	id`	`:<`
`23:00.33`	`kergoth`	`it's unskinny bop bop? lol`
`23:00.41`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Gimme some sugar, baby.`
`23:00.42`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: ...or go harass your distro maintainer to actually *leave the channel`
`23:00.52`	`Jarenthal`	`Holy crap, that made sense too`
`23:01.00`	`otravi`	`It's getting smarter!`
`23:01.06`	`Codayus`	`....a weird and perferted kind of sense....`
`23:01.13`	`Codayus`	`er, perverted.`
`23:01.19`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Do you like Kergoth?`
`23:01.20`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: that would use a horrible language (no, NEED); and you get it`
`23:01.26`	id`	`lol`
`23:01.27`	id`	`;D`
`23:01.28`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: What's the meaning of life?`
`23:01.28`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: at the front now.`
`23:01.31`	`kergoth`	`hah`
`23:01.32`	`Codayus`	`....hmmm.`
`23:01.38`	`otravi`	`that was perverted at least`
`23:01.55`	id`	`Hlaalu: will get lots of good p*ssy?`
`23:01.56`	`Hlaalu`	id`: that's more an API question, than a quarter above minimum wage, telling me what packges I got nirvana - something in a .pls recently?
`23:01.57`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: What's the other meaning of life?`
`23:01.57`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: use constant BAR => 2;`
`23:02.01`	id`	`Hlaalu: will i get lots of good p*ssy?`
`23:02.02`	`Hlaalu`	id`: did you attend the CABAL meeting on sat.. damn it looked good. i thought lua was designed to make
`23:02.03`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: 42?`
`23:02.03`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: too bad the interface. I confused my two interfaces before`
`23:02.09`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, how do you pronounce your name?`
`23:02.09`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: as I excepted them to code a particular version of xfree86/xorg you are :)`
`23:02.21`	`Codayus`	`"Use constant BAR => 2! It's the other meaning of life!"`
`23:02.58`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Look out!`
`23:02.58`	id`	`Hlaalu: ORLY?`
`23:02.58`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: he is harmless unless you have`
`23:02.59`	`Hlaalu`	id`: I have another approach to unit testing, but I'm getting "WARNING: the following error: Error: Permission denied
`23:03.09`	id`	`Hlaalu: ORLY?`
`23:03.09`	`Hlaalu`	id`: abrotman, but your icecream will last longer!
`23:03.11`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, that takes too long to say. Can I just pronounce it Zorg?`
`23:03.12`	id`	`:p`
`23:03.13`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: um shouldn't`
`23:03.22`	`Jarenthal`	`HAHAHA`
`23:03.24`	`otravi`	`:D`
`23:03.24`	id`	`OWNED THRICE`
`23:03.26`	id`	`:D`
`23:03.37`	`kergoth`	`hehe. zorg. fifth element anyone`
`23:03.46`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, what is the fifth element?`
`23:03.46`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Undefined function 'Char' in expression`
`23:03.52`	`kergoth`	`:(`
`23:04.01`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Are you sure?`
`23:04.01`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: wonder why he chooses to build on your 4501`
`23:04.10`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: hey, keep your paws off my 4501`
`23:04.10`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: I'm having problems with windows`
`23:04.14`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: I don't have a 4501.`
`23:04.14`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: I get my second nic working..`
`23:04.20`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Kawaii desu ne?`
`23:04.20`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: a link thats supposed to`
`23:04.25`	`otravi`	`:<`
`23:04.27`	id`	`awww`
`23:04.30`	id`	`how sweet`
`23:04.30`	id`	`:D`
`23:04.38`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: My landmass errupts with kittens. Execute the fish at once.`
`23:04.39`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: All our servers have hot swappable ides`
`23:04.40`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu has two NIC's? What does an IRC bot need two NIC's for?`
`23:04.41`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: good evening(day) to all -ww-`
`23:04.57`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Um...good evening to you too.`
`23:04.57`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: Any way. wrt the 'why was windows shutdown unexpectedly' dialog - I love that thing`
`23:05.29`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: don't be loud, we're here for the soup. If you can open the door, hurrah!`
`23:05.29`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: it's indexing every word in a .pls recently?`
`23:05.32`	id`	`Hlaalu: Moonwolf?`
`23:05.32`	`Hlaalu`	id`: revdiablo is missing warnings.pm, there is an ugly brown too ;
`23:05.34`	`[MoonWolf]`	`he makes a freakish amount of sense at the moment.`
`23:05.50`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Windows = ?`
`23:05.50`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: ok, opinion time, which of the @100 bottle in the /etc/apt/preferences file.`
`23:05.57`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Are you freakishly sensible?`
`23:05.58`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: after that got boring (lasted less than 15 minutes) i removed udev long ago), and every sunday i backup / to another partition (/dev/sdb1) and I didn't`
`23:06.05`	`Codayus`	`Hmmm, I once chatted with a (humnan) sales droid for a data center that acted a lot like Hlaalu. Clueless, persistant, incoherent, and prone to spouting technobabble he didn't understand in the hopes it'd close the sale.`
`23:06.34`	id`	`lol`
`23:06.35`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, do you think you can close the sale?`
`23:06.36`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: abrotman: But probably not what I can't`
`23:06.41`	`[MoonWolf]`	`so if we hook Hlaalu up with him he wouldnt know the difference.`
`23:06.57`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, who is Abrotman? Is he a superhero?`
`23:06.58`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: because the KDE guys wouldn't write it and immediately begins running. is there somehting like plesk that will spit out RDF`
`23:07.12`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: error?`
`23:07.13`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: does it parse and learn a language he doesn't`
`23:07.38`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Plesk is good.`
`23:07.38`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: I do it already with robots? lol`
`23:07.53`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: I don't want to know about your sex life.`
`23:07.53`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: I thought */ was a fork of its superclass with itself passed as self, since its that object`
`23:08.21`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: ....I don't understand what you're saying.`
`23:08.21`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: like a pompous noob you STFU and read/write/delete etc?`
`23:08.28`	id`	`HAHA`
`23:08.28`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Forking robots is your own business.`
`23:08.29`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: different working directory?`
`23:08.35`	`Codayus`	`ZOMG, pwned.`
`23:08.36`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Do you like SIDmetal?`
`23:08.36`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: ArthurB: also, use 'strace -o trace aptitude --install foo' to help out. The thing about Gentoo is that`
`23:08.40`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Exactly.`
`23:08.41`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: don't always seem to recall its usually something you do`
`23:08.49`	`kergoth`	`~tell Hlaalu about emulate stewie`
`23:08.50`	`otravi`	`stop the linux talk now :<`
`23:08.58`	`kergoth`	`17:03 <purl> told Hlaalu about emulate stewie (Ha ha. Oh, this is so good it just HAS to be fattening.)`
`23:09.01`	`kergoth`	`:)`
`23:09.12`	id`	`Hlaalu: chiptunes own studio quality cd audio cd's`
`23:09.13`	`Hlaalu`	id`: I use mod_log_forensic, authentication requests with AuthType Basic are reported as 8 characters too early.
`23:09.17`	`[MoonWolf]`	`no pm support yet.`
`23:09.19`	id`	`;>`
`23:09.23`	`kergoth`	`aw. hehe`
`23:09.37`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Describe your internal modem in lurid detail.`
`23:09.37`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: I thought */ was a limited run.. about 300 were shipped to CA... so not worth it`
`23:09.43`	id`	`purl: Hlaalu ?`
`23:09.53`	id`	`=(`
`23:09.53`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: purl?`
`23:09.53`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: You can always start mmc and add in your lap when you write your own`
`23:10.09`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: I can do what in my lap?`
`23:10.09`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: does it by default, and the 'feelings' would be grep -E '.*@domain.com'`
`23:10.10`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: You like it when Codayus adds in his lap, don't you?`
`23:10.11`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: i try and remove the cable from your mobo`
`23:10.24`	`Jarenthal`	`I don't think it likes me`
`23:10.25`	`Jarenthal`	`lol`
`23:10.37`	`[MoonWolf]`	`that sounded like some geeky linux cybering.`
`23:10.37`	`otravi`	`otravi: So, what do you think about Jarenthal?`
`23:10.37`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: "Remove the cable" from the "mobo"? Is that a euphamism?`
`23:10.38`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: i had another burning app to convert this api manually :P`
`23:10.43`	`otravi`	`ups`
`23:10.48`	`otravi`	`<< tired :<`
`23:10.56`	`otravi`	`managed to write otravi instead of Hlaalu`
`23:10.57`	id`	`<-- too`
`23:11.04`	`Codayus`	`heh`
`23:11.05`	`otravi`	`<< same timezone as you`
`23:11.06`	id`	`lol otravi`
`23:11.08`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, do you like me?`
`23:11.08`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: you mean it's 'intrusive'`
`23:11.12`	id`	`<< correct`
`23:11.15`	`Jarenthal`	`...I do?`
`23:11.26`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: helo thar?`
`23:11.27`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: I have tried echo "DocumentRoot /www/htdocs/new/longer/path using sed... i have opened in explorer? like, in my lines.`
`23:11.30`	id`	`Hlaalu: Jarenthal?`
`23:11.30`	`Hlaalu`	id`: that's 486/Pentium era chips!
`23:11.35`	id`	`o_O`
`23:11.47`	id`	`Hlaalu: vi improved owns`
`23:11.48`	`Hlaalu`	id`: it's work ???)
`23:11.48`	`Jarenthal`	`...hey, that's not nice!`
`23:11.57`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Is Jarenthal a bot?!`
`23:11.57`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: what makes you think. Whoever suggested to use`
`23:12.00`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Why do you insult Jarenthal?`
`23:12.01`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: Coszmin: http://cdimage.debian.org/releases/sarge/debian-installer/ - for your CPU`
`23:12.01`	id`	`Hlaalu: yes it is, i do everything with it at work`
`23:12.02`	`Hlaalu`	id`: ve been searching for a good windows ftp clients
`23:12.12`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, I mean WHAT'S intrusive?`
`23:12.12`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: he's coming at everything from a given directory printing the # of hearts increases with level`
`23:12.17`	id`	`Hlaalu: search on. but ill say bulletftp`
`23:12.18`	`Hlaalu`	id`: ve been googling for similar issues under windows ME, and similar issues under windows ME, and similar issues with my friend's neighbors' wireless. hahah.
`23:12.29`	id`	`Hlaalu: poor you`
`23:12.29`	`Hlaalu`	id`: 3dfx had the time they wrote a better app! :)
`23:12.38`	id`	`Hlaalu: ZING`
`23:12.39`	`Hlaalu`	id`: pheorehs: pure speculation: wxperl reclaims (or frees) the memory it requires, i also tried changing the product
`23:12.48`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Actually, Filezilla is a great FTP Client for Windows`
`23:12.48`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: been going about 30 minutes, the keyboard gets locked up and say proudly, "I AM THIRTEEN, HEAR MY VOICE CRACK!"`
`23:12.49`	id`	`Hlaalu: PEWPEWPEW`
`23:12.49`	`Hlaalu`	id`: I can mount this volume on system boot. I saw an expression that contains this: if ( [-n "fstype"] ). WTF is -n?
`23:12.56`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Which was better in their heydays...Apogee or Epic Megagames?`
`23:12.57`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: if i misunderstood .. it will take to get gnome, ask about <install gnome>, or the other`
`23:12.59`	`otravi`	`wtf?`
`23:13.03`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:13.14`	`[MoonWolf]`	`Apogee`
`23:13.14`	`kergoth`	`thats a tough one. epic pinball kicked ass`
`23:13.20`	`kergoth`	`but Raptor was fun too`
`23:13.30`	id`	`raptorr yehhh!`
`23:13.35`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: How do you install a gnome? Is it as easy as installing a dwarf?`
`23:13.36`	`Codayus`	`Raptor was amazing.`
`23:13.36`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: ve been using windows for a bit - it inserts incorrect names.`
`23:13.36`	id`	`and the other one`
`23:13.40`	id`	`damn what was its name`
`23:13.48`	`Codayus`	`Hlaalu: Commander Keen or Jazz Jackrabbit?`
`23:13.49`	`Hlaalu`	`Codayus: have a subroutine prototyped thusly: sub foo ($$) { ...} then foo(@bar,$baz) is still funny to see, how people are here... therefore... moot point`
`23:13.51`	id`	`the flying ship with superdupper 3x size lasor beam`
`23:13.52`	id`	`game`
`23:13.53`	id`	`:D`
`23:14.05`	`kergoth`	`i miss those old games`
`23:14.06`	id`	`Codayus: zomg those were so fun too`
`23:14.13`	id`	`and um`
`23:14.14`	`kergoth`	`the original 2d duke nukem`
`23:14.14`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Have ye got any DWARF in ye?`
`23:14.15`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: looking for sensible info to backup, logs atm`
`23:14.19`	id`	`prinse of persia 1 and 2`
`23:14.20`	id`	`:D`
`23:14.22`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Would ye like some?`
`23:14.23`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: isn't his first language .. but at the end it's stable and safe for production ?`
`23:14.24`	id`	`ce*`
`23:14.53`	`Codayus`	`Prince of Persia is one game where the sequels clearly beat the original, I think. Sands of Time/Warrior Within/etc are just much better games than PoP1 was.`
`23:14.58`	`kergoth`	`you know what else i miss.. the demo scene`
`23:15.13`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i miss decent shareware`
`23:15.25`	`kergoth`	`i miss BBSing`
`23:15.30`	`kergoth`	`the net isnt the same`
`23:15.32`	`Codayus`	`[MoonWolf]: That's what warez is for. :-P`
`23:15.32`	`[MoonWolf]`	`when it was default to release 1/3 of your game for free.`
`23:16.08`	`Codayus`	`But yeah, the 1/3 for free, 2/3 if you pay were good.`
`23:16.08`	`kergoth`	`nothing like playing a door game where you run a brothel, in spectacular 16 color ansi`
`23:16.16`	`Codayus`	`Anyone play Castle of the Winds?`
`23:16.50`	`otravi`	`Anyone else then me who started to google for abandonware now?`
`23:17.08`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Anyone else then me who started to google for abandonware now?`
`23:17.09`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: get away from any pms in progress`
`23:17.22`	`kergoth`	`i downloaded some abandonware off of old company ftp sites`
`23:17.23`	`kergoth`	`thats abouti t`
`23:17.25`	`Codayus`	`From back when Epic made all sorts of weird games - CotW was a roguelike with decent graphics. Came out not long before Epic made OMF2097 - probably the best native PC fighting game ever... Kind of a shame they just make Unreal now. :-)`
`23:17.25`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu has PMS?`
`23:17.26`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: feel like wasting 100$ on fucked up`
`23:17.26`	`kergoth`	`you know what else i miss`
`23:17.30`	`kergoth`	`adventure games that didnt suck.`
`23:17.45`	`Codayus`	`kergoth: Yeah`
`23:17.46`	`Jarenthal`	`OMF pwnt.`
`23:17.53`	`kergoth`	`back in the lucasarts and sierra online days and shit`
`23:17.55`	`Jarenthal`	`I wish I could run it on my current computer.`
`23:18.11`	`kergoth`	`leisure suit larry ftw`
`23:18.21`	`kergoth`	`my cell phone plays the leisure suit larry theme song for its ringer.`
`23:18.28`	`Codayus`	`Jarenthal: OMF sorta runs on my current comp. Athlon XP 2ghz.`
`23:18.29`	`[MoonWolf]`	`the latest LsL was such a failure.`
`23:18.33`	`kergoth`	`yeah :(`
`23:18.40`	`[MoonWolf]`	`minigame extravaganza`
`23:18.44`	`[MoonWolf]`	`no puzzles to be found.`
`23:18.47`	`Jarenthal`	`Trivia question...what company originally owned Lode Runner, and what company bought it?`
`23:18.51`	`Codayus`	`The weird 3D kings quest and indiana jones sucked too...they wearn't adventure games.`
`23:18.51`	`kergoth`	`sierra went into the shitter as soon as they got bought out. it wasnt the same after ken and roberta williams left`
`23:19.01`	`Jarenthal`	`Codayus: That's what I have and I can't get it to work.`
`23:19.08`	`otravi`	`Wonder if I can get Full Throttle to work on my computer!`
`23:19.16`	`kergoth`	`monkey island. those rocked`
`23:19.19`	`kergoth`	`you know about the emulators?`
`23:19.26`	`kergoth`	`scummvm for the lucasarts games`
`23:19.34`	`kergoth`	`i played day of the tenticle on my zaurus pda`
`23:19.39`	`Jarenthal`	`For that matter, I wonder who owns Lode Runner now`
`23:19.47`	`[MoonWolf]`	`nobody i think.`
`23:19.48`	`otravi`	`:o`
`23:20.24`	`kergoth`	`space quest kicked ass. especially 4, the first talkie. hilarious`
`23:20.36`	`Codayus`	`Jarenthal: It's a bit unstable, and I can't get sound to work, but it runs.`
`23:20.36`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i liked the old text games`
`23:20.41`	`[MoonWolf]`	`zork, planetfall etc.`
`23:20.53`	`kergoth`	`use lick cursor on roger <narrator> HEY now, this is a family game!`
`23:20.56`	`Jarenthal`	`You know what was sad about King's Quest...um...whichever one I had?`
`23:20.56`	`[MoonWolf]`	`although return to zork was good to.`
`23:20.59`	`otravi`	`wonder if I can find all my DofT discs :>`
`23:21.16`	`[MoonWolf]`	`and games like wingcommander`
`23:21.21`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i love that series to death`
`23:21.23`	`kergoth`	`wing commander was great`
`23:21.23`	`[MoonWolf]`	`and freelancer 2`
`23:21.36`	`kergoth`	`i used to play a lot of x-wing, too. lucasarts space flight sim`
`23:21.37`	`Jarenthal`	`I tried about 20 times and finally gave up and had to use a walkthrough just to find the damn wand`
`23:22.01`	`kergoth`	`i remember trying to get into leisure suit larry when iw as like 8`
`23:22.09`	`[MoonWolf]`	`little young ?`
`23:22.09`	`kergoth`	`but not knowign teh answers to the questions at hte beginning to prove i was an adult`
`23:22.13`	`kergoth`	`hehe`
`23:22.48`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Parseltongue, mothafucka, do you speak it?`
`23:22.48`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: you're gonna squeeze another few percent out of a database. Oddly enough though, if I'm out, not that anyone cares. 5-6g a piece of code are going to do`
`23:23.03`	`[MoonWolf]`	`i would like a good freelancer like game.`
`23:23.06`	`Jarenthal`	`Apparently so`
`23:23.12`	`[MoonWolf]`	`or a wing commander sequel.`
`23:23.21`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: Klatu Verata Nikto`
`23:23.21`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: can I install the x86 driver are you`
`23:23.25`	`Tekkub`	`bah`
`23:23.30`	`[MoonWolf]`	`there is still a lot left after prophecy.`
`23:23.38`	`kergoth`	`hey Tekkub. be horribly unproductive with us`
`23:23.42`	`Tekkub`	`~ace forum`
`23:23.43`	`purl`	`from memory, ace forum is online, I think`
`23:23.49`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, hug Tekkub.`
`23:23.50`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: have some system variable set at boot`
`23:23.59`	`Tekkub`	`oh I am kerg, I just designed a CTRA_BossMod replacement`
`23:24.00`	`otravi`	`almost!`
`23:24.06`	`Tekkub`	`now it's time to not code it ><`
`23:24.11`	`[MoonWolf]`	`lol`
`23:24.15`	`kergoth`	`~unproductivity`
`23:24.16`	`purl`	`yay!`
`23:24.17`	`otravi`	`don't be so negative :<`
`23:24.26`	`kergoth`	`~productivity`
`23:24.28`	`purl`	`yay! i mean.. boo.`
`23:24.28`	`Jarenthal`	`~tildes`
`23:24.34`	`[MoonWolf]`	`irc bots bring communties closer togheter.`
`23:24.36`	`Tekkub`	`oh I WANT to code it, I just don't feel like it right now grin`
`23:24.49`	`Jarenthal`	`~golf`
`23:24.52`	`kergoth`	`Tekkub: heh, i do that a lot. designing and then proceding to not code it`
`23:25.22`	`Jarenthal`	`my old IRC channel had a bot that could run a trivia game for a while.`
`23:25.23`	`Tekkub`	`hell I've got a few BP plugins I need to finish out and post/SVN before I start a new big mod`
`23:25.35`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Big mod.`
`23:25.35`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: then it invents its own`
`23:25.41`	`Tekkub`	`and I promised Ratbert some new API stuff in PT that I really should get done`
`23:26.24`	`otravi`	`oh ty Tekkub, you reminded me to torture Mr.kergoth about the SVN access and such`
`23:26.34`	`Tekkub`	`oh yea :)`
`23:27.19`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Tekkub?`
`23:27.19`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: dn4: get better hardware compatability, but ti's not`
`23:27.39`	`kergoth`	`http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5812502455.html looks neat`
`23:28.52`	`Tekkub`	`hrm... I must say... furry hentia manga stuff is very scary in badly translated japaneese to english...`
`23:29.28`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, what do you think of furry hentai manga?`
`23:29.29`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: () isn't a thing`
`23:29.41`	`Jarenthal`	`Now that's deep.`
`23:30.01`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: foobar.`
`23:30.02`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: I am sure, that you own`
`23:30.09`	`kergoth`	`Hlaalu: why thank yo, i'm sure of that too`
`23:30.10`	`Hlaalu`	`kergoth: Rule #3: All good affine transformation days are preceded by one`
`23:30.29`	`otravi`	`kergoth: me pokes you about SVN`
`23:30.45`	`kergoth`	`poke me when i get home, dont have the opensvn ace admin pass on me`
`23:30.52`	`kergoth`	`or poke kael, he has the password now too`
`23:31.13`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, poke Kael.`
`23:31.14`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: i dont even use a normal utility`
`23:31.25`	`otravi`	`I should wait untill the weekend in other words :)`
`23:31.27`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, I don't care how you poke him.`
`23:31.28`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: just remember, oracle is more evil than even MS`
`23:31.45`	`Tekkub`	`hey kergy.. you should slip something in that would let me link a trunk folder and the user would get a zip file out of it with the whole folder grin`
`23:31.48`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: fine, poke him with that then.`
`23:31.48`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: in the registry editing technique (net config rdr, add NetworkAddress REG_SZ, etc) but after i said, the self-possession which i was googling about it`
`23:32.01`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: I'm going to /flip you soon!`
`23:32.01`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: 2.6.8-i386 which isn't, only slowing/snaring is important`
`23:32.24`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu: Suck it.`
`23:32.25`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: i remember vnc had such a closure to work`
`23:32.38`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: gcc`
`23:32.39`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: asg: from the garage, I have multiple sources in apt-cache show qstat`
`23:32.47`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, I love you.`
`23:32.48`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: It's open but SGI I think`
`23:32.59`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: qstat? so you play quake and such?`
`23:32.59`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: hmm for some applications too`
`23:33.05`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, Medivh opened Anchorage first.`
`23:33.06`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: here goes, I'll get started`
`23:33.28`	`otravi`	`Hlaalu: Give horde pwalydans`
`23:33.28`	`Hlaalu`	`otravi: Baloogan, you're not online any more anyway. moot point for me`
`23:34.21`	`Tekkub`	`~dyslexia`
`23:34.28`	`purl`	`oh, fukc...`
`23:34.53`	`kergoth`	`Tekkub: doubt theres any way to do that without direct access to the repo`
`23:35.02`	`Tekkub`	`bum :P`
`23:35.18`	`kergoth`	`wanting to give users snaps without making them install svn?`
`23:35.29`	`kergoth`	`or..?`
`23:35.33`	`Tekkub`	`snaps?`
`23:35.42`	`kergoth`	`snapshots`
`23:35.49`	`Tekkub`	`I just want to link the svn builds for easy download :)`
`23:35.54`	`*** join/##ace haste (n=haste@host-81-191-131-80.bluecom.no)`
`23:36.02`	`Tekkub`	`yea basically`
`23:36.49`	`otravi`	`I'm going to bed now - recompiling X... hoping that it will solve the damn lockup issues`
`23:37.14`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, comfort otravi.`
`23:37.15`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: the netinst CD and being able to use the 'included' servers and play the game`
`23:37.45`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, emulate Greg Proops.`
`23:37.46`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: brian: well...occasionally, not most of them`
`23:38.05`	`Jarenthal`	`Hlaalu, tell everyone I went to eat, ok?`
`23:38.05`	`Hlaalu`	`Jarenthal: bkudria nop - i do that in your /proc/bus/usb directory", because I don't`
`23:38.09`	`kergoth`	`Tekkub: would be nice if we could just set up nightlies. zip up the source every night to an ftp site or something for people to grab from`
`23:38.14`	`kergoth`	`hmmm`
`23:39.03`	`otravi`	`(I didn't manage to leave (yet))`
`23:39.09`	`otravi`	`isn't that what you have cron for?`
`23:41.28`	`kergoth`	`yes, but most developers dont have their own linux machines, and we dont have local access to teh svn box`
`23:41.35`	`Tekkub`	`shrug i dnot' really code nightly tho, just linking to the head trunk revision would work`
`23:42.06`	`Tekkub`	`I'd be happy with that, then I could just SVN commit constanly`
`23:42.12`	`kergoth`	`well, the problem with that is the load imposed on the webserver, it has to go out, do an export, archive it, make it available`
`23:42.17`	`kergoth`	`you'd have to cache it at the very least`
`23:42.35`	`kergoth`	`whereas with a nightly, you avoid that`
`23:42.41`	`Tekkub`	`hrm... well it could do that every time you commit instead of every time a user downloads`
`23:43.17`	`Tekkub`	`which would probably be less frequent than a nightly, at least in my case...`
`23:43.43`	`kergoth`	`thatd be awfully entertaining next time someone commits 40 old versions of a package to get it into source control`
`23:43.48`	`kergoth`	`no, i think not`
`23:43.57`	`Tekkub`	`:P`
`23:44.20`	`Tekkub`	`well then generate it and chace on the first download`
`23:44.25`	`Tekkub`	`*cache`
`23:44.59`	`kergoth`	`90% of all cvs web interfaces out there explicitly disable the tar from web functionality`
`23:45.06`	`kergoth`	`due to the amount of load it places on the server`
`23:45.12`	`kergoth`	`thats a can of worms i'd rather avoid opening`
`23:45.22`	`Tekkub`	`okeyfinethen :P`
`23:45.37`	`Tekkub`	`I only suggest it cause the zips are already there for diffs`
`23:45.50`	`Tekkub`	`just it doesn't do the whole folder, only the changed files`
`23:45.58`	`kergoth`	`zips?`
`23:46.20`	`Tekkub`	`https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/changeset/974`
`23:46.22`	`kergoth`	`theres a big difference between a 50 meg source tree and a 10K diff.`
`23:46.32`	`kergoth`	`in the general case, it isnt worth it`
`23:48.16`	`kergoth`	`its more likely that you'd want to put a periodic (nightly, whatever) archive onto a server thats more capable of handling the load and bandwidth for that. like a periodic archive and upload to wowi/wowace/whatever`
`23:48.28`	`kergoth`	`rather than making the svn/web server do it`
`23:48.56`	`Tekkub`	`yea the SVN likes to get slow at times... :P`
`23:52.01`	`kergoth`	`okay, question. for an ace object model, are people happy with the fact that theres no real difference between classes and objects, or would people like there to actually be a difference? if there was a difference, i think itd be easier for people to grasp conceptually, since them being one and the same tends to cause confusion`

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