| 00:04.26 | Tem | kergoth: you still around? |
| 00:08.35 | *** join/##ace weab2 (n=asdf@cpe-66-68-62-162.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 00:17.40 | Tem | cladhaire: are you here? |
| 00:18.02 | Tem | I have question for you... |
| 00:29.49 | Djanee | Visor question if anyone can help me out a bit. I'd like to remove the fluffy border off of the PetActionBarFrame and keep the buttons. It seems if I hide PetActionBarFram, I lose everything including the buttons. Is there a way to seperate the two and just hide the borders? |
| 00:30.24 | Plorkyeran | make the buttons have a parent other than PetActionBarFrame then hide the frame |
| 00:30.34 | Djanee | and the broader question...is there a way to see what "child" frames are anchored to a given frame so that you can see what you might want to change? |
| 00:31.29 | Djanee | Any idea if assigning the buttons to say UIParent will effect the behavior of the buttons? auto pop up on gain pet / disappear on no pet |
| 00:46.06 | FryGuy | djanee: on one of the threads it said how to do that |
| 00:46.13 | FryGuy | it's got a different name |
| 00:46.20 | Kaelten | hello |
| 00:46.23 | Djanee | any idea what I'd search on to find it" |
| 00:46.24 | FryGuy | like.. PetActionBarFrameMainBorder1 |
| 00:46.24 | Djanee | ? |
| 00:46.37 | FryGuy | let me look in my vizor config |
| 00:46.38 | Djanee | hi there Kaelten |
| 00:48.33 | FryGuy | i don't remember it off hand.. and i can't find it in my config |
| 00:48.44 | FryGuy | it was one of the visor threads.. i think the older one |
| 00:48.51 | FryGuy | search for PetActionBarFrame |
| 00:49.19 | Djanee | I've just started with Visor so I'm really in information overload with all the threads, the wiki and lots of extranious info in there |
| 00:52.58 | Tem | oh hey Kaelten |
| 00:53.07 | *** join/##ace Parak (n=profi@user-12hdr8d.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:53.36 | Tem | don't tell me you stopped paying attention to the channel when I looked back... |
| 00:53.45 | Kaelten | lol nope |
| 00:53.48 | Kaelten | I'm here talking to clad |
| 00:54.04 | Kaelten | whats up Tem? |
| 00:54.35 | Kaelten | what exactly is the passthrough problem in acehooks that you where talking about tem? |
| 00:55.42 | cladhaire | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:55.45 | Tem | the passthrough thing that cladhaire just finished rewriting it to fix |
| 00:55.55 | Kaelten | thought that was what you are talking about. |
| 00:55.59 | cladhaire | oh.. where any non-ace hooks get blown out on an unhook |
| 00:56.09 | Tem | yeah |
| 00:56.13 | Kaelten | No clad we're not doing any major additions until Ace2 |
| 00:56.14 | cladhaire | (well non-ace hooks after the ace hooks) |
| 00:56.15 | cladhaire | k |
| 00:56.26 | Kaelten | this will likely be the last release before we start on Ace2 |
| 00:56.31 | cladhaire | i didnt know if anyone was considering the SeaHook type of API.. with "After""before"etc |
| 00:56.44 | Tem | yeah that's garbage |
| 00:56.46 | cladhaire | i personally don't like the idea.. i prefer to ake the programmer think, rather than cawdle them with bloat |
| 00:56.54 | Tem | the ace system is much more powerfull |
| 00:56.54 | cladhaire | but *shrug* |
| 00:57.03 | cladhaire | well the ace system is just pure unadulterated hooks. |
| 00:57.10 | cladhaire | the OLD AceHooks would call ALLAce hooks one after another |
| 00:57.12 | Tem | it lets you decide EXACTLY when to call the hooked function |
| 00:57.16 | cladhaire | not anymore.. its just STRAIGHT hooking |
| 00:57.19 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 00:57.42 | Kaelten | Ok so Clad is going to handle the Hook and Script changes for 1.3 |
| 00:57.53 | cladhaire | Tem.. i will need you to break my code. |
| 00:58.02 | Tem | Ho now... |
| 00:58.04 | Kaelten | lmao, |
| 00:58.04 | cladhaire | I do a good job of it (Regression and debugging) but i need another set of eyes. |
| 00:58.11 | Tem | you're the second person to tell me that in the last 2 days |
| 00:58.15 | Tem | I'm starting to be afraid |
| 00:58.21 | Kaelten | ya the first was probably Slouken |
| 00:58.28 | cladhaire | lol |
| 00:58.34 | Tem | no, it was iriel |
| 00:58.38 | Kaelten | lmao |
| 00:58.43 | cladhaire | Its an important role |
| 00:58.47 | cladhaire | I can break my own code np np |
| 00:58.56 | cladhaire | but having another set of prying eyes makes it worth it in the end. |
| 00:59.10 | Kaelten | yep, a few good code sadist are indespespensible(sp) |
| 00:59.19 | Tem | rofl... |
| 00:59.31 | Tem | oh! Ideas for Ace2 |
| 00:59.36 | Tem | DB System |
| 00:59.37 | cladhaire | Ok.. so my goals are: |
| 00:59.48 | Tem | (you go first) |
| 00:59.51 | Kaelten | lets define clad's goals first |
| 01:00.00 | Kaelten | 1) Preserver current API |
| 01:00.10 | Kaelten | er preserve or damn I can't spell |
| 01:00.17 | cladhaire | Minimize the use of pack/unpack, Make callhook a table lookup instead of a function call, fix the unhooking issue, make acescript a true wrapper only for acehooks |
| 01:00.19 | Tem | 2) make it more efficient than the current system |
| 01:00.19 | cladhaire | anything else? |
| 01:00.33 | cladhaire | OH... i need to add anonymous function hooking imo |
| 01:00.37 | Tem | oh good someone else is wary of pack, unpack |
| 01:00.46 | Tem | you do need to do that |
| 01:00.48 | Kaelten | anonymous function hooking? |
| 01:01.02 | cladhaire | pack and unpack are so damn expensive |
| 01:01.16 | Kaelten | talking about being able to do Hook("function", function() end) |
| 01:01.17 | Kaelten | ? |
| 01:01.25 | cladhaire | self:Hook("WatchDog_OnClick", function(arg) blah end) |
| 01:01.25 | cladhaire | aye |
| 01:01.31 | Tem | self:Hook(GameTooltip,"SetInboxItem",function(a) func() self:Method() ect ect end) |
| 01:01.32 | Kaelten | yes that would be good. |
| 01:01.37 | Kaelten | lmao we all did it |
| 01:01.44 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:01.52 | cladhaire | i'm tossing it up on my wiki.. its my todo list |
| 01:01.56 | cladhaire | watchdog.brokendreams.net/AceHooks |
| 01:02.01 | Tem | Kaelten: that's already in Turan's 1.3 version of the hooking system |
| 01:02.09 | Kaelten | now on the anon function hooking, should it auto callhook? |
| 01:02.14 | Tem | no |
| 01:02.24 | Kaelten | oh ya we can still write it in, duh |
| 01:02.27 | Kaelten | sorry brain fart |
| 01:02.29 | Tem | hehe |
| 01:02.35 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:03.14 | cladhaire | k |
| 01:03.17 | cladhaire | i'm good =) |
| 01:03.22 | Kaelten | ok and I'm going to change the AceModule CallHook and CallScript code to be simple compatibility wrappers to call the table call |
| 01:03.36 | cladhaire | i'll get to work on it.. what sort of timeframe are we looking at? |
| 01:03.37 | Tem | cool |
| 01:03.43 | Tem | I have no idea |
| 01:03.48 | Tem | ASAP comes to mind |
| 01:03.50 | cladhaire | Kaelten: I'll give you the syntax for that one I decide where we're going |
| 01:03.53 | cladhaire | *nod* i'll do what I can |
| 01:04.01 | cladhaire | but i'm in the middle of OOing WatchDog.. which is no small task |
| 01:04.09 | Tem | if you need any help I'll be glad to help out |
| 01:04.10 | cladhaire | with full metatable defauts for profiles |
| 01:04.11 | Kaelten | clad: lets keep it something close to being able to say self.Hooks.function() |
| 01:04.24 | Tem | I'm in the middle of OOing FilterTradeSkill which is turning out to be a nightmare too |
| 01:04.33 | cladhaire | Kael: *nod* it just gets sticky with objects and methods.. so i'll work it out exactly |
| 01:04.46 | Kaelten | self.Hooks.Object.Method() |
| 01:04.47 | cladhaire | metatables bit me yesterday.. but i worked it out. |
| 01:04.53 | Kaelten | possible? |
| 01:05.01 | cladhaire | no |
| 01:05.05 | cladhaire | it has to go one more layer |
| 01:05.06 | cladhaire | it might be |
| 01:05.09 | cladhaire | i'll have to look =) |
| 01:05.12 | Tem | self.Hooks[Object].Method |
| 01:05.22 | Kaelten | same thign I wrote Tem |
| 01:05.25 | Tem | no |
| 01:05.26 | Kaelten | just different syntax |
| 01:05.31 | Tem | what you wrote was: |
| 01:05.37 | Tem | self.Hooks["Object"].Method |
| 01:05.40 | cladhaire | we should be fine with it =) |
| 01:05.41 | Tem | Very different |
| 01:05.59 | Kaelten | hmm, but thats using an object as table key, wouldn't that have more overhead? |
| 01:05.59 | cladhaire | I need to get one quick answer tho. . and this is my ignorance with Ace |
| 01:06.05 | Kaelten | shoot clad |
| 01:06.05 | Tem | Kaelten: nope |
| 01:06.07 | cladhaire | nope |
| 01:06.12 | cladhaire | don't shoot me |
| 01:06.15 | cladhaire | Ok =) |
| 01:06.24 | Kaelten | k, if not thats cool too then. I just like the . better, hehe |
| 01:06.32 | cladhaire | Does each Ace Addon have their own AceHook object? |
| 01:06.36 | Kaelten | no. |
| 01:06.46 | Kaelten | ok I'll explain how it works. |
| 01:07.03 | Kaelten | Each Addon inherits the Hook, UnHook, and Call functions in AceModule |
| 01:07.08 | cladhaire | (OO creation is something that I haven't played with much) |
| 01:07.34 | Kaelten | Those functions in turn call Ace.hooks:Call or what not |
| 01:07.40 | cladhaire | k |
| 01:08.19 | Kaelten | thats why the first argument in acehook is a object pointer to the addon thats hooking. |
| 01:08.28 | Kaelten | same thing with scripts and events. |
| 01:08.48 | Tem | the self:Hook(...) thing is a cool wrapper for ace.Hook(ace,self,...) |
| 01:09.09 | cladhaire | right now the registry is local.. that will be exposed now correct? |
| 01:09.10 | Kaelten | actually it'd be Ace.Hook(self, function, ...) |
| 01:09.21 | Kaelten | no I don't think so. |
| 01:10.00 | cladhaire | ok. |
| 01:10.24 | Kaelten | what turan did in the 1.03 beta was this |
| 01:11.02 | Kaelten | if( not mod.Hooks ) then mod.Hooks = {} end |
| 01:11.02 | Kaelten | if( not mod.Hooks[obj] ) then mod.Hooks[obj] = {} end |
| 01:11.21 | Kaelten | and then proceded somewhere to set mod.Hooks[obj].function |
| 01:11.22 | cladhaire | k.. he got rid of the registry system |
| 01:11.25 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:11.26 | cladhaire | k |
| 01:11.28 | cladhaire | i can handle that |
| 01:11.32 | Kaelten | no its still there in .103 |
| 01:11.36 | cladhaire | haha |
| 01:11.45 | cladhaire | whre is the magical 1.03b ? |
| 01:11.47 | Kaelten | you might want to look at his code in the beta |
| 01:11.53 | Kaelten | http://www.wowace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=395 |
| 01:12.35 | Kaelten | he did however get rid of AceHook:CallHook() |
| 01:12.49 | Kaelten | wb Tem, formerly known as I |
| 01:13.22 | Tem | I went to I to play with Guillotine who changed himself to "We" |
| 01:13.40 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:13.57 | Kaelten | ya here is turan's call code in AceModule in 1.03's beta |
| 01:13.58 | Kaelten | function AceModule:CallHook(arg1, arg2, ...) |
| 01:13.58 | Kaelten | if( type(arg1) == "string" ) then |
| 01:13.58 | Kaelten | return self.Hooks[arg1](arg2, unpack(arg)) |
| 01:13.58 | Kaelten | else |
| 01:13.58 | Kaelten | return self.Hooks[arg1][arg2](unpack(arg)) |
| 01:13.59 | Kaelten | end |
| 01:13.59 | Tem | it was fnu |
| 01:14.01 | Kaelten | end |
| 01:14.03 | Kaelten | function AceModule:CallFunc(func, ...) |
| 01:14.04 | cladhaire | looking at the code now |
| 01:14.05 | Kaelten | return self.Hooks[func](unpack(arg)) |
| 01:14.07 | Kaelten | end |
| 01:14.10 | cladhaire | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:14.13 | cladhaire | =) |
| 01:14.18 | cladhaire | everything is pack() unpack() |
| 01:14.35 | cladhaire | they make a ton of GC |
| 01:14.41 | cladhaire | makes teh cladhaire sad |
| 01:14.59 | Kaelten | we'll we want to cut that down. |
| 01:15.05 | Kaelten | er well we rather |
| 01:15.19 | Kaelten | I also notice he completely got rid of AceScript in 1.03 |
| 01:15.50 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:15.53 | cladhaire | god |
| 01:15.54 | cladhaire | good |
| 01:16.06 | Kaelten | its part of AceHook in this version. |
| 01:16.11 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:16.22 | Tem | I seem to remember looking at KalrKFI's new SeaHooks and him using a a1,a3,a4...an system instead of unpacking |
| 01:16.29 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:16.32 | Kaelten | So basically we want you to merge the changes in the hook system with the work you did to get Ace to play nice. |
| 01:16.36 | cladhaire | claims it has no GC |
| 01:16.40 | Kaelten | ya that just seems so tacky, |
| 01:16.46 | Kaelten | everything has GC in lua |
| 01:16.51 | Tem | yeah but I think it works |
| 01:16.51 | cladhaire | Kael: Whats the nocall stuff.. i couldn't wrap my brain around it. |
| 01:16.52 | Kaelten | just not as much. |
| 01:17.02 | Tem | or at least it works better than unpack |
| 01:17.13 | Kaelten | ok nocall is a semi undocumented feature that Turan semi-wanted to remove but didn't because I used it. |
| 01:17.26 | cladhaire | haha |
| 01:17.29 | cladhaire | what does it do? |
| 01:17.31 | cladhaire | =) |
| 01:17.32 | Kaelten | basically it stops the 'original' function from being called on CallHook() |
| 01:18.02 | Kaelten | to allow people to attempt to play nice with other mods even if they completely overwrite the Method. |
| 01:18.40 | Kaelten | make sense at all? |
| 01:18.47 | Kaelten | and big question, should we keep it? |
| 01:18.52 | cladhaire | Somewhat.. can you give me an example of why/when you use it? |
| 01:18.53 | Tem | I don't think so |
| 01:19.06 | Tem | but I can't think of a way to change that for KC_ET |
| 01:19.21 | Kaelten | I can but it involves trashing all of Blizzard's code |
| 01:19.29 | Kaelten | KCET uses it |
| 01:19.43 | Kaelten | I put CallHook in there to try to play nice with other mods who may hook before me. |
| 01:19.55 | Kaelten | but I need the original handler to NOT be called. |
| 01:20.05 | cladhaire | But how can you guarantee that? |
| 01:20.10 | Tem | you really can't |
| 01:20.10 | cladhaire | If something has hooked before you |
| 01:20.15 | Tem | which is why we should remove it |
| 01:20.16 | Kaelten | Tem said it. |
| 01:20.22 | Kaelten | you honestly can't |
| 01:20.25 | cladhaire | lol thats why i was so confused =) |
| 01:20.31 | Kaelten | it was a good idea |
| 01:20.38 | Kaelten | but it only works in an 100% ace enviroment |
| 01:20.42 | cladhaire | aah |
| 01:20.54 | Kaelten | if everything is Ace, it would work |
| 01:21.07 | cladhaire | but we can't work like that |
| 01:21.10 | cladhaire | or i'll walk |
| 01:21.12 | Kaelten | exactly |
| 01:21.13 | cladhaire | *stomps off* |
| 01:21.41 | cladhaire | k k |
| 01:21.54 | Kaelten | which is why I'm going to tell you to make it so having that argument there won't break anything. |
| 01:22.02 | Kaelten | but lets don't support the feature in the code anymore. |
| 01:22.04 | cladhaire | I'll have a better idea when I look at it this week |
| 01:22.54 | Kaelten | I'm planning an update to KCET, and I'm thinking of removing filtering for the time being. |
| 01:22.57 | Kaelten | it adds too much lag |
| 01:23.04 | Tem | lag? |
| 01:23.09 | Tem | I don't see ANY lag with filtering |
| 01:23.22 | Tem | and I was doing to a lot |
| 01:23.33 | Tem | I was updating my filter Every scroll frame update |
| 01:23.39 | Tem | and I never got any lag |
| 01:23.52 | Kaelten | ya I'm thinking there is a better way to do it than I did it |
| 01:24.03 | Kaelten | that mod is still based on Pinky's a lot and frankly, guy had issues |
| 01:24.10 | Tem | haha |
| 01:24.14 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:24.22 | Tem | I read the pinky code when I learning to do addons |
| 01:24.32 | Kaelten | issues right? |
| 01:24.50 | Tem | there was a line "local WTFHack = true -- Don't Ask" |
| 01:24.58 | Kaelten | lmao |
| 01:24.59 | Kaelten | yep |
| 01:25.26 | Tem | Kaelten: you need to see what I'm doing to FTS |
| 01:25.30 | Tem | it's beautiful |
| 01:25.34 | Kaelten | considering KCET was my third addon, Auto Repair my first and KC_RadialButtons my second its just kinda odd. |
| 01:25.38 | Kaelten | I'll look at it. |
| 01:25.43 | Kaelten | I need to redo a lot of the logic in it. |
| 01:25.51 | Tem | it's not anywhere that you can see |
| 01:26.02 | Tem | I'm building a very generic table stucture |
| 01:26.13 | Tem | and I'm displaying everything in a table view with columns |
| 01:26.15 | Kaelten | Clad: anymore questions? |
| 01:26.20 | Tem | clicking headers sorts |
| 01:26.28 | Kaelten | nice. |
| 01:26.34 | Tem | dragging the edges of the columns resizes them |
| 01:26.45 | Tem | and dragging the headers moves columns around |
| 01:26.46 | Kaelten | and you're making that an AceGUI object correct? |
| 01:26.54 | cladhaire | no thats pretty much it |
| 01:27.00 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:27.03 | Tem | well I plan to make it into an AceGUI object when I'm done |
| 01:27.10 | Kaelten | have you looked into AceGUI much yet? |
| 01:27.13 | Kaelten | thing is.... complex |
| 01:27.15 | Tem | not much |
| 01:27.21 | Kaelten | took me a while to figure out how it works. |
| 01:27.26 | Tem | I have the bones for a boss mod using it |
| 01:27.39 | Tem | but I was having issues with list boxes and multi line edit boxes |
| 01:27.45 | Tem | so it's sitting inactive in my TODO list |
| 01:27.46 | Kaelten | hmm really I havn't had any |
| 01:27.51 | Kaelten | what issues? |
| 01:28.04 | Tem | returning nil to a list box makes it explode |
| 01:28.19 | Tem | and it doesn't much like an empty table either |
| 01:28.29 | Kaelten | hmm, why not just call Clear() |
| 01:28.49 | Tem | like I said, I didn't play with it much |
| 01:28.54 | Kaelten | hehe |
| 01:29.02 | *** join/##ace _DvdKhl_ (i=UDontWan@p508A738D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:29.19 | Kaelten | I'm going to release a version with minor tweaks soon because I've had to edit certain parts to make FontStrings doable |
| 01:29.21 | Tem | basically I'm trying to mimic the iTunes interface for the tradeskills |
| 01:29.35 | Kaelten | hmm, don't use iTunes |
| 01:29.40 | Tem | I don't either |
| 01:29.44 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:29.46 | Tem | but their interface is flawless |
| 01:30.13 | Kaelten | ok so you where talking about Ace2? |
| 01:30.27 | Tem | that's one thing apple really has going for them: They are rediculously good at creating GUIs |
| 01:30.35 | Tem | Oh right! |
| 01:30.39 | Tem | AceDB |
| 01:30.40 | Kaelten | yep they use art to make computers |
| 01:30.49 | Kaelten | AceDB, the great and pitiful |
| 01:31.00 | Tem | I want to change the profiling system |
| 01:31.08 | Tem | the front end will be essencially the same |
| 01:31.09 | Kaelten | why and how? |
| 01:31.38 | Kaelten | one thing we need to state is how important is compatibility between Ace1 and Ace2 |
| 01:31.48 | Tem | little to none |
| 01:31.54 | Kaelten | I disagree |
| 01:31.56 | cladhaire | Rowne will kill you if its not 100% |
| 01:31.58 | cladhaire | lol |
| 01:32.08 | Tem | rowne will update his stuff and deal |
| 01:32.12 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:32.18 | Kaelten | we need to at least be able to write wrappers that will make it compatible. |
| 01:32.22 | Tem | sure |
| 01:32.33 | Kaelten | I'm not saying the main api has to be identical |
| 01:32.36 | FryGuy | is there any way to stop an event from going to the blizzard UI after you handle it? |
| 01:32.40 | Kaelten | but we need to bridge the gap for at least a little while. |
| 01:32.48 | Kaelten | Fry: nope |
| 01:32.49 | Tem | but functionality and efficiency is more important than backwards compatibility |
| 01:32.54 | Tem | are* |
| 01:32.56 | FryGuy | like in my aceitembid thing, i want to hide the whispers that it handles |
| 01:33.21 | FryGuy | :( |
| 01:33.22 | Kaelten | Fry: then you need to catch the funciton that writes them to the screen and stop it from printing them |
| 01:33.48 | FryGuy | doesn't ct_ra do that for the "<CTRaid> setting channel" thing? |
| 01:33.56 | Djanee | me again, back with another Visor question...I'd like to scale several buttons say 13-24. It seems that I'm doing something wrong. I'm using a script. I tried adding a s=.75 to the SetupFrame that I'm using and got an error. Thought maybe SetupFrame didnt take s= since that's another module. So I tried ScaleFrames, but can't figure out the syntax |
| 01:33.58 | FryGuy | ooh |
| 01:34.00 | FryGuy | i'll look at their code |
| 01:34.13 | Kaelten | Tem: I agree, but I want to 'depreciate the old ways but make it so the old code still works. |
| 01:34.25 | Tem | I don't like how the profile system has to manually path down into the table to get to the profiles |
| 01:34.41 | Tem | and I don't like how we have to do self.db[profilePath] or whatever to do it either |
| 01:34.47 | Kaelten | when can give a blanket warning to ace developers that depreciated methods will only be around for X number of releases |
| 01:34.58 | Kaelten | ok, then how should we do it? |
| 01:35.05 | Tem | Metatables |
| 01:35.32 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 01:35.40 | Tem | I'd like to have 2 database object types |
| 01:35.46 | Kaelten | ? |
| 01:35.54 | Tem | one that automatically access via the profile |
| 01:35.57 | Tem | and one that doesn't |
| 01:36.01 | Tem | dbp and db |
| 01:36.35 | Kaelten | clad, and anyone else: feel free to interject with input at any time. |
| 01:36.55 | Kaelten | Djanee: no clue me no know visor, it hurt me. |
| 01:36.56 | cladhaire | i'm listening |
| 01:37.08 | Tem | I also want to make the need for the get and set methods to go away |
| 01:37.19 | Kaelten | that would be nice. |
| 01:37.41 | Kaelten | could we do something like ace.db.server.bob.sally = "no go home!" |
| 01:37.54 | Tain | Damn I'm not sure how I even ever played City of Heroes, I spend hours just creating a character. |
| 01:38.16 | Tem | Kaelten: well, yes |
| 01:38.22 | Tem | but I'm not sure if we should us it |
| 01:38.24 | Tem | use* |
| 01:38.26 | Djanee | hehe thanks anyway...back to bangin my head against Visor |
| 01:38.29 | Kaelten | or where you refereing to something else? |
| 01:38.33 | Tem | oh hell... I have to go |
| 01:38.39 | cladhaire | I'd like to see aceDb be a self creating, plays nice tabe =) |
| 01:38.41 | cladhaire | table |
| 01:38.51 | Tem | well the self creating thing is doable |
| 01:39.00 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:39.02 | cladhaire | i wrote one yesterday |
| 01:39.07 | Tem | but it has drawbacks |
| 01:39.09 | Kaelten | hmm. |
| 01:39.26 | Kaelten | well if we don't self create and we don't have set and get how do we do it? |
| 01:39.49 | Tem | force people to know what tables are there and create them themselves? |
| 01:40.05 | cladhaire | Whats the drawback to creation? |
| 01:40.07 | cladhaire | that makes you want to avoid it? |
| 01:40.18 | Tain | Djanee: It should just be s=.. /vz set f=VisorActionButton38 s=.75 |
| 01:40.24 | Kaelten | one of the appeals of AceDB is that it does it for you. |
| 01:40.43 | Kaelten | I used to spend hours debuging stupid nil errors because I didn't have aceDB |
| 01:40.49 | Tem | Because when you want to just test something it would create and you wouldn't get nil |
| 01:41.08 | Kaelten | we couldn't stop that from happening? |
| 01:41.14 | Djanee | right Tain, but can't use /vz set in a script |
| 01:41.17 | Tem | the "solution" for that was returning DBNIL |
| 01:41.23 | cladhaire | its there a __newindex metamethod? |
| 01:41.29 | Djanee | I wanted to set all the scales as I built the bar in a script |
| 01:41.41 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:41.42 | Tem | but since lua has no __tobool metamethod DBNIL evaluates to true |
| 01:41.44 | cladhaire | aah.. but that doesn't help for traversal |
| 01:42.02 | Tem | cladhaire: traversal isn't the issue |
| 01:42.22 | Tain | oooh Djanee you should be able to use Visor:Do or Visor:SetupFrame. Visor:Do is the same as SetupFrame, it just does it silently. |
| 01:42.23 | kergoth | i've created objects that pretended to be None in python. cant do that in lua :( |
| 01:42.24 | cladhaire | *nod* i'm trying to wrap my head around it |
| 01:42.36 | kergoth | cladhaire: look at the automagictables wikip age |
| 01:42.46 | Tem | oh good kergoth, |
| 01:42.48 | Tain | Djanee: It should be something like Visor:SetupFrame("f=VisorActionButton10 s=.75") |
| 01:42.56 | Tem | explain to them the automagic table issue with AceDB |
| 01:42.57 | Kaelten | finally he comes back around, lol |
| 01:42.57 | Tain | Should be, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong. |
| 01:42.57 | Tem | I have to go |
| 01:43.09 | Tem | funny how that works eh? |
| 01:43.17 | Djanee | Tain: I have /script local x=1 for i=(x+1),(x+11) do Visor:SetupFrame("f=VisorActionButton"..i.." h=FALSE pr=VisorActionButton"..(i-1).." p1=TOPLEFT p2=TOPRIGHT") |
| 01:43.43 | Djanee | if I add in a s=.75 right after the h=false, I get a parse error |
| 01:43.53 | Tem | at any rate, I should be back in a couple of hours.... I have some ideas about tooltips that might be cool |
| 01:44.00 | Kaelten | cool |
| 01:44.24 | Kaelten | So Kergoth, whats the issues with em? |
| 01:44.58 | Tain | You migh thave to do the scale separately. I don't think so though. Hrm. Oh actually you probably should do it sepeartely, once the frames are parented you should be able to set the scale on just the first one and it should affect all. |
| 01:45.12 | Tain | Lots of shoulds in there. Should should should... doesn't mean it will. hehe |
| 01:45.18 | Kaelten | cladhair: link? |
| 01:45.36 | Djanee | see THAT"s wthat I thought, but I set scale on the first button and ONLY the first button scaled :( |
| 01:46.33 | cladhaire | http://lua-users.org/wiki/AutomagicTables |
| 01:46.55 | Tain | hmmm.. add into the SetupFrame p=VisorActionButton"..(i-1) also. The buttons below the "top" button can be parented along like that, in addition to the pr= relative parent. |
| 01:47.30 | Tain | Wow this is some damn damn good chicken I made. Wow. It's like there's a party in my mouth. |
| 01:48.50 | Parak | It's all happy in there? |
| 01:48.55 | Parak | BAM?! |
| 01:49.19 | Tain | Bam indeed. |
| 01:49.28 | cladhaire | Kael: That sucks.. And I dont see a way around it =( |
| 01:49.41 | Kaelten | Ok, I don't get metatables 100%, so what exaclty is the issue |
| 01:49.58 | cladhaire | IF you go a = AutomagicTable() |
| 01:50.00 | Djanee | just making sure I understand Tain, set both p= and pr= to the previous button? thought pr= was enough |
| 01:50.09 | cladhaire | if not a.b.c.d then print("Its broked") end |
| 01:50.26 | cladhaire | the problem is __index happen on both lookups and assignments |
| 01:51.14 | Tain | Yes, do both Djanee. They do different things, although I thought from memory that pr was enough |
| 01:51.35 | Kaelten | ok question what would the val variable be when it got down to creating d? |
| 01:51.37 | Djanee | kk I'll give it a whirl |
| 01:52.06 | cladhaire | Kael: What do you mean val? |
| 01:52.22 | Kaelten | function assign(tab, key, val) |
| 01:52.34 | cladhaire | it gives you an empty table imo |
| 01:53.04 | Tain | And don't feel badly about having trouble with Visor, there are people right here who are talking about how to rewrite the Ace libraries entirely, and some of them are afraid of Visor. ;) |
| 01:54.30 | Kaelten | heh, and I neer touched flexbar either |
| 01:55.15 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:55.25 | Kaelten | and index is what would actually create the table huh? |
| 01:55.39 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 01:55.44 | cladhaire | there's no stopcase |
| 01:56.07 | cladhaire | no way to say "create it.. but dont give me a new table if i'm just indexing) |
| 01:56.45 | cladhaire | and like tem said there's no __bool |
| 01:56.51 | cladhaire | so we cna't make DBNIL return false |
| 01:56.59 | Kaelten | damn. |
| 01:57.03 | Kaelten | ok.... well here is my issue |
| 01:57.09 | Kaelten | I want auto creating tables. |
| 01:57.10 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:57.15 | cladhaire | me2 |
| 01:57.24 | Djanee | heh thanks Visor. Need to get some food...I've been at this too long |
| 01:57.37 | Djanee | OMG see! I meant Thanks Tain |
| 01:58.05 | Tain | hehe |
| 01:58.20 | Kaelten | .... |
| 01:58.21 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 01:58.25 | Kaelten | don't like that |
| 01:58.32 | cladhaire | lol i'm looking at it |
| 01:59.07 | Kaelten | lol |
| 01:59.12 | Djanee | I'm actually trying to document everything as I'm learning. I'm hoping to put up a newbies guide to Visor when I'm done |
| 01:59.35 | cladhaire | hrm |
| 01:59.36 | cladhaire | i wonder |
| 01:59.54 | Djanee | anyways food time |
| 02:03.59 | Kaelten | how goes the wondering? |
| 02:06.57 | cladhaire | II dont know.. don't have any good ideas |
| 02:08.31 | Kaelten | hmm |
| 02:09.22 | Kaelten | afk for a few let me get my toddler in bed |
| 02:09.57 | *** join/##ace kergoth (n=kergoth@c-24-118-219-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:14.20 | *** join/##ace Cair (n=Cairenn@CPE001217452e29-CM014500004571.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:17.03 | RasmusKL | Where is Rowne when you need him+ |
| 02:26.36 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 02:26.37 | cladhaire | sorry bro |
| 02:27.12 | cladhaire | I want to hear what tem wants to do with acedb then |
| 02:27.17 | cladhaire | since we can't automagically create tables. |
| 02:27.26 | cladhaire | and adding the overhead of a function call can sometimes be badl. |
| 02:28.36 | kergoth | well, lua functions dont involve much overhead at all, but i agee |
| 02:28.37 | kergoth | agee |
| 02:28.38 | kergoth | gah |
| 02:28.44 | kergoth | agRee |
| 02:32.06 | cladhaire | they're more expensive than table lookups |
| 02:35.26 | cladhaire | damn Tem |
| 02:35.29 | cladhaire | now i'm bothered =) |
| 03:14.57 | *** part/##ace cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:28.59 | Tem | damn me? |
| 03:29.16 | Stylpe | Hmm... |
| 03:30.02 | Stylpe | AceDB:get eats memory |
| 03:30.30 | Tain | I eat pizza. |
| 03:31.35 | Stylpe | No, I mean a lot of memory |
| 03:31.40 | Tem | yeah |
| 03:31.42 | Tem | we know that |
| 03:31.50 | Stylpe | I didn't |
| 03:31.57 | Tain | No, I mean I eat a lot of pizza. |
| 03:32.06 | kergoth | mm, pizza |
| 03:32.13 | Stylpe | I just discovered it while trying to optimise AcePerfMeter |
| 03:32.30 | Stylpe | It uses a few Get's every update |
| 03:33.30 | Stylpe | Is it supposed to use taht much mem? |
| 03:33.48 | Tem | well |
| 03:33.49 | Tem | no |
| 03:33.54 | Tem | we're working on getting rid of that |
| 03:34.01 | Stylpe | Wouold you like to know how much I'm talking about? |
| 03:34.33 | Stylpe | Am i coming off as annoyed? |
| 03:34.46 | kergoth | lets hear it, it sounds like you need to rant |
| 03:34.49 | kergoth | ;) |
| 03:35.18 | Stylpe | Lemme just remeasure |
| 03:36.22 | Stylpe | Okay, I'm running APM to update every 0.1 sec. It has 4 gets. That measures to about 1 kB every update, which is 10 kB every sec |
| 03:36.44 | Stylpe | If I remove the gets, the memory stops increasing almost completely |
| 03:37.25 | Stylpe | So, a get eats up about 250 bytes every time it's used |
| 03:37.39 | Stylpe | Hungry hungry AceDB |
| 03:41.07 | Kaelten | damn tem? |
| 03:41.12 | Tem | hmm? |
| 03:41.16 | Kaelten | just reading back |
| 03:41.25 | Tem | hey Kaelten guess what I just got us |
| 03:41.31 | Tem | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?ForumName=wow-interface-customization&ThreadID=272883 |
| 03:41.32 | Kaelten | what? |
| 03:41.57 | Kaelten | awesome |
| 03:42.03 | kergoth | Tem: okay, here's a possibility... better handling of db defaults. at startup you traverse the addon's database and attach a memoizing metatable to every table and subtable, pointing at the corresponding structure in defaults, if it exists. accesses to things that dont exist will just pull the appropriate bits out of defaults. then, you have the addon developer not just define default values in the defaults var, but also /the base |
| 03:42.03 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:42.20 | kergoth | then you dont need automagic tables |
| 03:42.37 | Kaelten | well thats for options. |
| 03:42.53 | Kaelten | things like KC_Items that are data miners, in a loose sense, do |
| 03:43.31 | kergoth | i dont see how. |
| 03:43.39 | kergoth | you can still use defaults to define the default database _structure_ |
| 03:43.42 | kergoth | just not the values |
| 03:43.42 | Kaelten | well the automagic tables would be nice. |
| 03:43.47 | Kaelten | hmm, I guess you're right |
| 03:43.59 | kergoth | then you know you can always get to whatever depth you need in the db |
| 03:44.19 | kergoth | i'm writing test code as we speak |
| 03:44.29 | Kaelten | hmm. |
| 03:44.58 | kergoth | basically i'm talking about making defaults flow into the db at a granular level |
| 03:45.04 | kergoth | not just cp the big table into place |
| 03:45.09 | kergoth | but if any piece is missing, fixing it |
| 03:45.48 | Kaelten | I'm hesitant to take away a feature that people are used to though. |
| 03:46.06 | kergoth | automagic tables dont exist today, other than in a beta |
| 03:46.13 | kergoth | we dont have to yank set and get, persay, just deprecate them |
| 03:46.23 | Kaelten | true. |
| 03:46.32 | kergoth | recommend that people manipulate the tables directly, and use the enhanced defaults to ensure things are what they expect |
| 03:46.53 | Kaelten | I guess thats a possiblity |
| 03:47.17 | Kaelten | Having issues with tables not being set properly isn't as much of an issue for me any more. and frankly I don't use AceDB all that much. |
| 03:47.23 | kergoth | nod |
| 03:47.31 | Kaelten | now how do we make the newDB take over global variables? |
| 03:48.15 | Tem | kergoth: I like that idea |
| 03:48.18 | kergoth | itd be neat if the SavedVariables field in the .toc could traverse table structures |
| 03:48.21 | kergoth | FooAddon.db |
| 03:48.22 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:48.50 | Kaelten | hmm now how would that work with Tem's dual database format idea? |
| 03:50.56 | Kaelten | AHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 03:50.56 | Kaelten | sorry |
| 03:50.58 | Kaelten | better now |
| 03:53.09 | Kaelten | hello? |
| 03:53.24 | Tem | Oh shit! |
| 03:53.28 | Tem | I'm supposed to be in MC |
| 03:53.29 | Tem | >< |
| 03:53.34 | Stylpe | pwnt |
| 03:53.51 | Kaelten | bah |
| 03:53.55 | Tem`MC | During the trash mobs I'll come back |
| 03:54.01 | Kaelten | lol |
| 03:56.25 | Tem`MC | bah.. core hound packs |
| 03:56.26 | kergoth | Kaelten: in my limited testing, what i described works perfectly |
| 03:56.32 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:56.50 | *** join/##ace cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 03:57.19 | Kaelten | hmm thats neat |
| 03:57.46 | Kaelten | can you pastebin the basic code so I can stare at it till my eyes bleed |
| 03:58.03 | kergoth | yeah, about to do so |
| 03:58.17 | Kaelten | hey clad |
| 03:59.13 | cladhaire | Heyas |
| 03:59.48 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo7 |
| 04:00.20 | kergoth | thats just proof of concept code, hacked together, ugly |
| 04:00.22 | kergoth | does work :) |
| 04:00.27 | kergoth | none of those assertions at the end fail |
| 04:01.59 | *** join/##ace Ratbert_CP (n=KCummins@c-66-229-214-105.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:02.02 | kergoth | doh, that was silly of me |
| 04:02.25 | cladhaire | Whats that code illustrate Kergoth.. specifically |
| 04:02.26 | kergoth | theres no need to make them memoizing at all. you can remove the self[k] = v and let them just resolve to defaults. no point saving default values into savedvariables at all, ever |
| 04:02.28 | kergoth | well.. |
| 04:02.29 | kergoth | hmm |
| 04:02.52 | kergoth | cladhaire: its an alternative approach to acedb. a better way of handling defaults to ensure that the structure the code expects always exists |
| 04:03.29 | kergoth | cladhaire: basically its a granular version of our existing defautls. even subtables of subtables properly pull default values from deep in the defaults table, so if the savedvariables loaded db is missing pieces, this ensures they still exist |
| 04:03.39 | kergoth | so we shouldnt need automagictables |
| 04:03.47 | kergoth | just a proof of concept |
| 04:03.57 | cladhaire | *nod* just seems to be for a very specific case |
| 04:04.11 | cladhaire | For example, when you're collecting data, it doesn't provide an advantage that I can see |
| 04:04.14 | kergoth | its extremely common. |
| 04:04.38 | kergoth | you dont want your code to explode with a lua error if the savedvariables content is incomplete. |
| 04:04.56 | cladhaire | i agree completely |
| 04:05.04 | kergoth | which is what happens without our current acedb get(), or 0.103's automagic tables |
| 04:05.11 | kergoth | this is just a third way of handling it |
| 04:05.16 | cladhaire | and i use a similar technique in the new and improved default savedvariables for WatchDog |
| 04:05.36 | cladhaire | (actually the same technique without memoizing |
| 04:05.49 | kergoth | the only question i have is.. if the user doesnt change a value, would you want to store it in savedvariables? |
| 04:05.54 | cladhaire | No |
| 04:05.55 | kergoth | i think no, in which case you dont want to memoize |
| 04:06.14 | cladhaire | I think thats good for the profile portion of AceDB |
| 04:07.19 | cladhaire | but we were looking at the concept of AceDB as a whole (As use for things like data collection, where you can't predict the data) but we don't see a way with LUA to have a table that creates the path for a index assignment off a nil value, but still allows us to check for nil values. |
| 04:07.22 | cladhaire | That would be perfectly superb |
| 04:08.01 | kergoth | i dont see waht you're trying to say there. |
| 04:08.15 | cladhaire | for example.. get() now creates the path if we make something deep |
| 04:08.22 | kergoth | automagic tables doesnt give you anything if you can guarantee that the structure that contains your data will exist, which you can, whether the actual data does or not |
| 04:08.23 | cladhaire | err set |
| 04:08.29 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 04:08.33 | cladhaire | I'm not talking about automagictabloes. |
| 04:08.41 | kergoth | i'm talking about people using defaults to ensure that occurs |
| 04:08.42 | cladhaire | that's covered by the technique you discuss.. which just straight metatable defaults. |
| 04:08.44 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 04:08.48 | cladhaire | that's not what I'm taking about |
| 04:08.50 | kergoth | self.defaults = { a = {} b = {c = {}}} |
| 04:08.55 | kergoth | or whatever |
| 04:08.58 | cladhaire | and I may be confused about the purpose of AceDB |
| 04:09.00 | Kaelten | if we can use the defaults table to define the structure of our data storage, then it might work. |
| 04:09.06 | cladhaire | hold on a sec |
| 04:09.17 | kergoth | the problem is when code does something like: if a.b.c then ... end |
| 04:09.21 | kergoth | and a.b doesnt exist |
| 04:09.43 | kergoth | thats what we're solving here, as far as i understand it |
| 04:09.51 | Kaelten | yes that is a major issue |
| 04:10.26 | kergoth | now, creating a given deep structure on command, i.e. createpath(t, "a.b.c.d") could be useful on occasion, but that's easily done with a single method |
| 04:10.28 | Kaelten | we need a consistant way to prevent that, it would be nice if that would just throw nil |
| 04:10.31 | kergoth | and doesnt require magic tables or anything |
| 04:10.34 | kergoth | Kaelten: yeah |
| 04:10.44 | Tem`MC | kergoth: well there is an issue for stuff that is generated on the fly |
| 04:10.45 | cladhaire | http://ace.pastebin.com/444517 |
| 04:10.53 | cladhaire | Thats what I use |
| 04:11.15 | cladhaire | the defaults exist, and they're set as metatables of the savedvariables on VARIABLES_LOADED |
| 04:11.27 | cladhaire | We can abstract that for Ace.. and it'll be effective for profile management. |
| 04:11.53 | kergoth | is the function i pasted earlier not sufficient? |
| 04:11.58 | cladhaire | No it is. |
| 04:12.00 | cladhaire | Completely |
| 04:12.02 | cladhaire | that's what I was saying |
| 04:12.06 | kergoth | you cant just set hte metatable at toplevel, you have to do so for every subtable, which was the concern |
| 04:12.07 | kergoth | oh okay |
| 04:12.20 | cladhaire | I just also think its important to have the get() and set() functinos in there for data management (data collection in particular) |
| 04:12.36 | kergoth | can you name a use case for get? |
| 04:12.47 | kergoth | if you can guarantee the structure exists, its unnecessary |
| 04:12.50 | cladhaire | and my ideal in lua (Which isn't possible from what I see) is a table which on assignment creates itself, but on index (if nil) still returns nil |
| 04:12.53 | kergoth | you can simply: if a.b.c then ... end |
| 04:12.53 | cladhaire | For example |
| 04:13.20 | cladhaire | (gimme a sec) |
| 04:13.25 | cladhaire | I collect heal stats information. |
| 04:13.34 | cladhaire | I could want to get the stats for a specific heal on a specific user. |
| 04:14.04 | cladhaire | to do that (non ace) i have to if healData.Sagart and healData.Sagart["Flash Heal"] then -- blah end |
| 04:14.33 | cladhaire | I'd like the following (which i dont see as possible) to replace get and set |
| 04:14.42 | cladhaire | one DB that is for profiles (What you pasted) |
| 04:14.52 | cladhaire | and one for data creation/collection/non-predicted data |
| 04:14.55 | cladhaire | i.e. |
| 04:15.26 | cladhaire | local a = {} |
| 04:15.26 | cladhaire | assert(a.b.c.d == nil) |
| 04:15.26 | cladhaire | a.b.c.d = "Information" |
| 04:15.38 | kergoth | ahh, you cant always guarantee the structure exists in that use case, since you wouldnt want to add a field for every user to the db whether theres numbers for them or not.. |
| 04:15.47 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 04:15.48 | cladhaire | exactly |
| 04:15.52 | kergoth | gotcha |
| 04:15.54 | kergoth | hmm |
| 04:15.55 | cladhaire | I'm dreaming essentially |
| 04:16.17 | kergoth | well, if you dont mind doing mor ethan just ==, you're fine |
| 04:16.30 | cladhaire | .. how so? |
| 04:16.31 | Tem`MC | AHAHAHA! |
| 04:16.34 | kergoth | write a tobool function that checks the __tobool metamethod, then call if tobool(foo) then .. end |
| 04:16.46 | Tem`MC | Luci MCed me and cast a portal |
| 04:16.50 | cladhaire | is there a __tobool metamethod.. I thought Tem said tonight that there wasn't one |
| 04:16.53 | cladhaire | Tem: hahahah that rocks |
| 04:16.55 | cladhaire | Tem: screenshot |
| 04:16.55 | Stylpe | lofl |
| 04:16.58 | kergoth | you'd use something like the 0.103 magic tables, or the other lua automagic tables |
| 04:17.00 | Tem`MC | I missed it! |
| 04:17.03 | Tem`MC | >< |
| 04:17.18 | kergoth | which owuld return something like 'dbnil', whose object has an __tobooll |
| 04:17.32 | kergoth | lua doesnt check for a boolealn metamethod when evaluating in that context |
| 04:17.36 | kergoth | which is why i said you'd hav eto do more |
| 04:17.46 | kergoth | i.e. call a tobool() function that you created, which checks it |
| 04:18.05 | cladhaire | but it requires changes on the developer side of things |
| 04:18.23 | Tem`MC | gotta say it's creepy to be watching for people to turn red so that you can sheep them... and then EVERYONE turns red |
| 04:18.23 | kergoth | yes, theres no way to do otherwise with lua as it is today |
| 04:18.41 | kergoth | Tem`MC: hah |
| 04:18.56 | cladhaire | kergoth: I know it makes me sad =) |
| 04:19.10 | kergoth | the only question is whats least ugly, syntactically |
| 04:19.20 | kergoth | and whether such a thing belongs in ace at all |
| 04:19.27 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 04:19.29 | kergoth | you could easily make an "automagictables" implementation an aceutil |
| 04:19.37 | kergoth | and i'd probably argue in favor of that |
| 04:19.53 | cladhaire | I wouldn't mind that.. util is the perfect place for it. |
| 04:20.00 | Kaelten | I could see that |
| 04:20.02 | cladhaire | I think moving profiles to metatables (if done correctly) is a good idea. |
| 04:20.39 | Kaelten | I'm reading just not talking much |
| 04:21.18 | Kaelten | ok so have we come to any sort of consensus on AceDB |
| 04:21.49 | kergoth | okay, so lets keep set/get around for compatibility, switch to a better defaults handling to avoid explosions on missing structure, and then i hand cladhaire a blob of automagic tables code to use as an aceutil... then everybody's happy, we avoid unnecessary function calls and encourage folks to use tables normally for profile stuffs |
| 04:21.55 | cladhaire | [I'm sorry to butt in by the way.. but we were talking about it earlier and i was still interested] |
| 04:22.07 | kergoth | i'm glad you did, its good to have the input, i didnt think about that use case |
| 04:23.40 | Kaelten | while clad's here is there any new functionality for AceHooks for Ace2? |
| 04:24.08 | kergoth | i cant believe i didnt consider that use case. i've hacked on a lua version of a round robin database. i've dealt with data collection and analysis before |
| 04:24.12 | kergoth | ~bad kergoth |
| 04:24.14 | purl | Bad kergoth, bad! No cookie for you! |
| 04:24.25 | kergoth | aww, but i have oreos |
| 04:24.40 | Tain | Damn you and your Oreos! |
| 04:24.50 | cladhaire | Kergoth: and that will be handled in 1.2 by get() and set() correct? |
| 04:25.25 | kergoth | whats 1.2 again? |
| 04:25.35 | kergoth | seriously, i dont recall the versioning scheme here |
| 04:25.37 | Kaelten | 1.2? |
| 04:25.43 | Kaelten | um the next release is going to be 1.3 |
| 04:25.50 | Kaelten | then were moving to ace 2 |
| 04:25.52 | cladhaire | haha |
| 04:25.56 | kergoth | 1.3 and 2, thats right |
| 04:25.59 | kergoth | i hate my memory |
| 04:26.00 | cladhaire | <- made that up.. sorry |
| 04:26.26 | kergoth | ~lart cladhaire |
| 04:27.43 | Stylpe | Man, I need to learn about metatables |
| 04:28.01 | Kaelten | metatables are small nightmares |
| 04:28.03 | cladhaire | They're frightening |
| 04:28.17 | Tain | aaaaaah |
| 04:28.23 | Stylpe | I'm sitting here trying to understand everything, but it always comes to a point where my mind just goes _______________ |
| 04:28.25 | cladhaire | Kergoth: Did you look at the WatchDog stuff I pasted. Do you see any pitfalls in there, or anything stupid that i've done? |
| 04:28.41 | Kaelten | AceGUI is going to put me in the nuthouse |
| 04:28.42 | Kaelten | hell |
| 04:28.49 | cladhaire | Kergoth: Cause I'm not 100% comfortable with it.. but right now, it works =) |
| 04:28.49 | kergoth | metatables are lua juicy goodness |
| 04:29.00 | kergoth | cladhaire: only looked briefly, i'll take a look in more detail when i finish this ice cream |
| 04:29.07 | cladhaire | kergoth: damn you.. |
| 04:29.14 | kergoth | :D |
| 04:29.16 | cladhaire | ./away getting mint chocolate chip ice cream |
| 04:33.18 | cladhaire | back |
| 04:37.08 | Kaelten | wb |
| 04:42.13 | cladhaire | omg thanks! |
| 04:43.10 | cladhaire | kergoth: done yet? jeesh! |
| 04:43.28 | cladhaire | I'm out of mint chocolate chip now.. |
| 04:47.45 | cladhaire | Has anyone else every poured a small amount of milk in the ice cream bowl.. (a TINY TINY amount) and enjoyed that? |
| 04:48.36 | RasmusKL | uhm, is there a lua equivalent for pattern matching for matching or stuff.. like (is|are) in normal regular expressions. |
| 04:48.57 | cladhaire | you can't do or matches in lua, or at least ive never found a way |
| 04:49.01 | kergoth | fraid not |
| 04:49.10 | kergoth | cladhaire: i have |
| 04:49.12 | kergoth | its good that way |
| 04:49.26 | RasmusKL | any way to do it anyway? |
| 04:49.52 | RasmusKL | my best solution so far was making a permutation of all the letters from both words and match words of those chars :-P |
| 04:50.04 | kergoth | that could falsely match |
| 04:50.08 | RasmusKL | I know |
| 04:50.24 | kergoth | no real solution, short of two seperate patterns |
| 04:50.26 | kergoth | it sucks |
| 04:50.28 | RasmusKL | But the alternative is doing 2 matches. |
| 04:50.32 | RasmusKL | :-/ |
| 04:50.41 | RasmusKL | Yeh, the lua one has some annoying limitations. |
| 04:51.12 | RasmusKL | Well, I guess on the good side, since I'll be doing it without or patterns, I will be able to use more of the global WoW constants, so less localization. |
| 04:51.46 | RasmusKL | But that's only good from a developer standpoint, not anywhere near performance. |
| 04:52.14 | RasmusKL | I guess that's the 2 real things I miss in lua, bitwise operations and proper regular expressions :-) |
| 04:52.25 | kergoth | Kaelten, Tem`MC: whats the ace2 plan other than acedb? i think we've got that part figured out. we need a wiki todo list, or a text file in SVN |
| 04:55.33 | *** join/##ace cladhair1 (n=jnwhiteh@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 04:56.16 | RasmusKL | actually kergoth, for the or thing, wouldn't "is?are?" work? |
| 04:56.52 | RasmusKL | or maybe (is)?(are)? |
| 04:56.53 | kergoth | that would match iar :P |
| 04:57.02 | kergoth | that could work, possibly, though it could match isare |
| 04:57.04 | kergoth | hhe |
| 04:57.07 | cladhair1 | since my laptop died i would say yes. |
| 04:57.11 | cladhair1 | but any of them with you are good =) |
| 04:57.12 | RasmusKL | grr :-P |
| 04:57.43 | Cair | was that to me Clad? |
| 04:57.53 | cladhair1 | yeah |
| 04:57.54 | cladhair1 | in tells. |
| 04:57.54 | Cair | k |
| 04:57.58 | cladhair1 | i r teh suxor. |
| 04:58.01 | Cair | heh |
| 04:58.06 | cladhair1 | kergoth: hello friend. |
| 04:58.19 | kergoth | i forgot to comment on the watchdog code, didnt i |
| 04:58.35 | cladhair1 | haha its okay |
| 04:58.42 | kergoth | ~emulate me |
| 04:58.43 | purl | Ooh look, shiny! Erm, I know I was supposed to be doing something. I wonder what it was |
| 04:58.43 | cladhair1 | you dont have to.. but i'd be greatful =) |
| 04:58.47 | kergoth | yay! |
| 04:58.52 | kergoth | ~botsnack |
| 04:58.53 | purl | :), kergoth |
| 04:59.56 | *** part/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 05:00.57 | *** join/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 05:33.12 | cladhaire | WatchDog can wait for tomorrow.. hooks are my fun tomorrow at work =) |
| 05:35.12 | cladhaire | night all |
| 05:35.42 | Stylpe | ninight |
| 05:36.21 | Cair | night Clad =) |
| 06:02.29 | *** join/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 06:08.15 | *** part/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 06:34.54 | RasmusKL | oh the sweet look of nested table values: d = d + ((d / 100) * (s.x.ta.b + (tr - 1) * (s.x.ta.s or s.x.ta.b))) |
| 07:24.07 | *** join/##ace Tekkub|kilt (n=tekkub@ip70-178-90-156.ma.dl.cox.net) |
| 07:58.58 | Codayus | Zeeg can be so charming... |
| 07:59.18 | Tekkub|kilt | yar |
| 07:59.29 | Tekkub|kilt | I hate him already |
| 07:59.59 | *** join/##ace MoonWolf (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 08:03.15 | Tain | I'd be more angry at him but he comes across as a 15 year old living with his mom making up stories to try to impress people. |
| 08:03.23 | Tain | You just can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth. |
| 08:04.13 | kergoth | hehe |
| 08:04.15 | kergoth | agreed |
| 08:05.10 | Cair | lol, don't ... mock in here all you want, out there I have to make like I'm yelling at you |
| 08:05.20 | Tain | I'll try |
| 08:05.23 | Tain | I will! |
| 08:05.44 | Cair | he makes me so crazy, and not in any good way |
| 08:05.48 | Cair | jaslfja;liow8273490871y8qoiopiawe7t-0asuf' |
| 08:05.53 | Cair | *twitch* |
| 08:05.55 | Tain | Nope. |
| 08:05.59 | Codayus | Heh |
| 08:06.55 | Cair | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:07.04 | Cair | my own fault for having said *anything* |
| 08:07.21 | Tain | Nope everyone else wants to, and does, say the same things. |
| 08:07.24 | Cair | just ... call me petty ... but god damn I get sick of him promoting his site in my channel |
| 08:07.30 | Tain | There's only so much restraint everyone can show. |
| 08:08.07 | Tekkub | so boot his ass when he does it again |
| 08:08.43 | Tain | Then he'll bitch whine and moan about how WoWI doesn't support the community, Cair's only out for herself. |
| 08:08.44 | Cair | yet being the nice, reasonable, courteous, get along with everyone, person that I am ... I can't get all pissy with him because that just makes *me* look petty and small |
| 08:09.08 | Tain | You have to be a beacon of light! |
| 08:09.21 | Tain | A shining example of the good and right things! |
| 08:09.26 | Cair | sweetness and light, that's me |
| 08:09.37 | Tain | I'll do the sludge work. |
| 08:09.40 | Cair | no |
| 08:09.43 | Tekkub | who cares what he thinks tho? |
| 08:09.44 | Cair | thank you, but no |
| 08:09.53 | Cair | I don't care what *he* thinks |
| 08:10.12 | Tekkub | I know you don't, that's my pait |
| 08:10.17 | Tekkub | point |
| 08:10.26 | Tekkub | everyone already hates his ass |
| 08:10.28 | Cair | I just care about the impression I give everyone else, since I am the most recognized "face" for *our* site |
| 08:10.40 | Tekkub | fuck I was here a day and wished bad things on him |
| 08:10.54 | Tekkub | next time he gives you a reason, kickban |
| 08:11.02 | Cair | anyway, shutting up again, thanks for letting me vent |
| 08:11.10 | Cair | lkajsd;ofiuqw45p98q745kajls/;oifu |
| 08:11.19 | Cair | *twitch* |
| 08:11.23 | Tekkub | it'd give me the impression you don't put up with fucksmudges ^^ |
| 08:11.57 | Cair | nah, I put up with those, I'm willing to sleep in the wet spot, it's worth it ;) |
| 08:12.18 | Tekkub | god why can't me hubby be like that... |
| 08:12.22 | Tekkub | he's all prissy |
| 08:12.31 | Tekkub | "eeew gooey! get it off!" |
| 08:12.32 | Cair | *chuckle* |
| 08:12.42 | Cair | I'd rather not, but I will ;) |
| 08:12.57 | Tekkub | :P |
| 08:13.12 | Tain | Someone's got to do it~ |
| 08:13.16 | Cair | aaaanyway, on yet another topic that I really should be leaving alone ... ;) |
| 08:13.18 | Tain | Unless you keep two beds. |
| 08:13.28 | Tekkub | towels ^^ |
| 08:13.51 | Cair | naw, just make sure that the wet spot is dead center, so after you are done you can each roll away to your own side of the bed and neither has to deal with it |
| 08:14.18 | Tain | Oh, I was going to say just spread the fun around the house. |
| 08:14.20 | Cair | heh, together 19 years, we've got it allllll worked out by now ;) |
| 08:14.23 | Tekkub | heh, he has aiming issues |
| 08:14.23 | Tain | There's plenty of other furniture. |
| 08:14.32 | Cair | Tekkub: ROFL |
| 08:14.44 | Tain | Ok at the risk of going too far.. (haha too late!) |
| 08:14.48 | Tekkub | last time... well he moved his head twice and got hit twice... and he was the one aiming... |
| 08:15.01 | Cair | hahahahhaha |
| 08:15.12 | Tekkub | and then he got mad at me for it |
| 08:15.17 | Cair | oh god, stop, I'm going to end up waking up my daughter, you've got me laughing so hard |
| 08:15.19 | Tain | I was having a conversation with some people and someone sort of walked into the middle of it and we turned to her and said, "Spit or swallow?" |
| 08:15.25 | kergoth | haha |
| 08:15.27 | Tain | and she says, "Spit? Swallow? DUCK!" |
| 08:15.30 | Cair | lust or love? |
| 08:15.48 | Tekkub | neither, furfetish |
| 08:15.53 | Tekkub | *giggle* |
| 08:15.55 | Cair | lol |
| 08:16.19 | Cair | actually, Tekkub ... oh, no no, I can't, I just can't |
| 08:16.22 | Cair | not fair to you |
| 08:16.24 | Cair | forget it |
| 08:16.27 | Tekkub | fine |
| 08:16.39 | Tekkub | yesterday when I was tryin to pvt ya... |
| 08:16.48 | Tekkub | I was saying, I'm glad you like me |
| 08:16.51 | Cair | but you may be my ticket to booting zeeg's ass out of the channel |
| 08:16.59 | Tain | hehe |
| 08:17.03 | Tekkub | cause I have this habit of pushing right up to the sine |
| 08:17.09 | Tekkub | *line |
| 08:17.13 | Cair | yeah, we had this conversation |
| 08:17.16 | Tekkub | and then humping it furiously |
| 08:17.19 | Cair | "and then humping it ... |
| 08:17.31 | Cair | heh |
| 08:17.32 | Tekkub | some guild/chatrooms hate me |
| 08:17.42 | Tekkub | so you did get my pvts? |
| 08:17.48 | Cair | some of them |
| 08:17.50 | Cair | obviously |
| 08:17.54 | Tekkub | wait... you got my pvts give em back! |
| 08:17.59 | Cair | ;) |
| 08:18.14 | Cair | nuh uh baby, they be mine now! |
| 08:18.19 | Tekkub | it was weird when the toy company called |
| 08:18.24 | Cair | LOL |
| 08:18.26 | Cair | yeah |
| 08:18.45 | Tekkub | the lady was too embaressed to tell my what was on backorder she just gave me the model number |
| 08:19.05 | Cair | then what on earth was she doing working in a store like that to begin with? |
| 08:19.16 | Tekkub | I didn't know which one it was till she offered a bigger size |
| 08:19.34 | Tekkub | and I find it funny she didn't offer smaller, there was a smaller size |
| 08:19.51 | Tekkub | "Would you like to supersize that for 49 cents?" |
| 08:20.10 | Cair | god, there you go again with making me laugh out loud |
| 08:20.17 | Tekkub | sorry, I'll stop |
| 08:20.21 | Tekkub | :P |
| 08:20.22 | Cair | hehehehe |
| 08:20.30 | Tekkub | I'm outta stuff anyway |
| 08:21.07 | Tain | You should have gotten the hint then they said, "Do you need batteries? We have a special on the car batteries that this takes." |
| 08:21.25 | Cair | well, let me just say ... if anyone says anything in the WoWI channel that offends you, please do be sure to make us aware of it, so we can deal with it appropriately |
| 08:22.07 | Tekkub | oh on that |
| 08:22.22 | Tekkub | the only thing that offends me is casual use of "that's gay" |
| 08:22.29 | Cair | well damn |
| 08:22.32 | Tekkub | and I normally handle it on my own |
| 08:22.42 | Cair | cause you know? that is something that zeeg says all the time |
| 08:22.48 | Tekkub | if they outright ignore me I'll come to you |
| 08:22.49 | Cair | along with calling people fags |
| 08:23.01 | Tekkub | I'll ask nicely for him to stop |
| 08:23.02 | Cair | so, you just let me know if he says it and I've missed it |
| 08:23.11 | Tekkub | if he doesn't, and I doubt he will |
| 08:23.43 | Tekkub | as I like to say "if I can't fuck it don't call it fucking gay lest you incure furry wrath" |
| 08:24.01 | Tain | I'm offended by zeeg lying about buying and selling companies. |
| 08:24.22 | Tekkub | I'm offended by zeeg's general existance |
| 08:24.28 | Cair | as I said ... and I do apologize for using you in this way and hope you can forgive me for it ... you may be my ticket for giving his ass the boot out of channel |
| 08:24.38 | kergoth | i tripped over zeeg's ego and hurt my ankle. can i sue? |
| 08:24.45 | Tekkub | oh I'm fine with that Cair |
| 08:25.02 | Tekkub | I like it when some picks me offensiveness over someone else's |
| 08:25.15 | Cair | well, that was what I was actually on about a few minutes ago when I said that I couldn't do that ... |
| 08:25.20 | Tekkub | but I try to be fair and offend or amuse everyone equally |
| 08:25.21 | Cair | but since you brought it up |
| 08:26.14 | Tekkub | ^^ |
| 08:26.14 | Tain | I am an equal opportunity offendor. |
| 08:26.20 | Tekkub | exactly |
| 08:26.39 | Tain | And occasional entertainer of people besides myself. |
| 08:26.44 | Tain | But that's fairly incidental. |
| 08:26.57 | Tekkub | so a gay black female republican jew walks into a bar.... |
| 08:27.29 | Cair | I'm not a super-anal up-tight "politically correct" ... but some things just ... shouldn't be |
| 08:27.36 | Tekkub | wait I can slip a jihad (sp?) into that one somehow |
| 08:27.58 | Tekkub | well like the whole handicap thing yesterday... |
| 08:28.16 | Cair | oh lord |
| 08:28.25 | Tekkub | I grew up in the county with one of the highest birth defect rates in the country |
| 08:28.27 | Cair | I can just imagine how zeeg would have been joking about it |
| 08:28.45 | Tekkub | I'm used to it and I treat them with the same respect as everyone else |
| 08:29.01 | Tekkub | and I'm not afraid to talk about the details of the disability |
| 08:29.09 | Cair | *nod* |
| 08:29.35 | Cair | a person is a person |
| 08:29.36 | Cair | period |
| 08:29.44 | Tekkub | hell, there are days I admire downs syndrom people.. they're always so happy |
| 08:29.53 | Cair | oh yeah! |
| 08:30.39 | Tekkub | okey Cair put on the muffler.... |
| 08:31.30 | Tekkub | seems the other night on gay.com the hubby offended someone by saying the guy had a nice big black... appendage |
| 08:31.57 | Tain | That's offensive? |
| 08:32.04 | Tekkub | the guy went off |
| 08:32.10 | Tain | I'd be flattered, and I'm white. |
| 08:32.12 | Tekkub | it was actually really funny |
| 08:32.24 | *** join/##ace Industrial (n=tom@gateway.is.remotion.nl) |
| 08:32.57 | Tekkub | well it's one stereotype that's not degrading, comeon |
| 08:33.25 | Cair | *nod* |
| 08:34.14 | Tekkub | good ol BHG |
| 08:34.37 | Tekkub | I love how walmart's version of their album was just named "hurray" |
| 08:34.57 | kergoth | haha |
| 08:35.00 | kergoth | i didnt hear about that |
| 08:35.03 | kergoth | thats just sad |
| 08:35.19 | Tekkub | yea I worked there |
| 08:35.26 | Tekkub | I was like... WTF |
| 08:35.34 | Tekkub | this CD must have 4 words on it |
| 08:35.54 | Tekkub | the cover image was just one tiny inoffensive part of it too, the com |
| 08:35.56 | Tekkub | "cow |
| 08:42.02 | Tekkub | poor zeeg needs some savedvars |
| 08:42.17 | Tekkub | wish I had some so I could refuse to give em over |
| 08:42.33 | Tain | I was going to make up some, but it's more fun to not even acknowledge him. |
| 08:42.40 | Tekkub | eye |
| 08:46.06 | *** join/##ace Rowne (n=Wuff@81-178-121-210.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 08:46.29 | Rowne | H'lo peoples. |
| 08:46.53 | Tain | Hey Rowne |
| 08:47.04 | Tekkub | *rawr* |
| 08:47.09 | Rowne | Taaain ... could I pester you to look over the Timex docs? |
| 08:47.19 | Rowne | Just a quick read-through to see whether it's koscher. |
| 08:47.32 | Rowne | That needs to get released and my only worry is the docs. |
| 08:47.48 | Tain | You could give me the link but I'm in a half-passed out state right now. |
| 08:47.58 | Rowne | Ah, okay. |
| 08:47.59 | Tain | Should have been asleep erm... five hours ago or so |
| 08:48.12 | Rowne | http://mastaile.mine.nu/TimexDocs.html |
| 08:48.16 | Rowne | Whenever you feel up to it. |
| 08:48.43 | Rowne | Also, fun times were had by all, yesterday. |
| 08:48.45 | Tain | I will give a read through tomorrow. |
| 08:48.58 | Rowne | I was on a PvP server and I went to fish in Booty Bay, I had a high level Rogue with me protecting me. |
| 08:49.00 | Tain | Fun? Fun? There is no such thing! |
| 08:49.08 | Rowne | There were no less than SIX attempts on my life. |
| 08:49.12 | Rowne | I was a level 14, fishing. |
| 08:49.15 | Tain | haha nice |
| 08:49.25 | Rowne | If I had no protection ... |
| 08:49.30 | Rowne | Anyway, I draw one conclusion from this ... |
| 08:49.59 | Rowne | Alliance players are all unattractive, middle-aged men who can only get their jollies by proving they have big virtual balls by killing off low-level players on PvP servers and then running off to whack-off over it. |
| 08:50.09 | Rowne | I've -never- seen the Horde pull anything like that on any of my servers. |
| 08:50.13 | Rowne | But the Alliance? All the damn time. |
| 08:50.27 | Tekkub | Rowne... |
| 08:50.28 | Tain | Well, I picked up City of Villians today. |
| 08:50.35 | Tekkub | exactly why I hate PvP server rules |
| 08:50.46 | Tekkub | I've seen horde do it |
| 08:50.46 | Rowne | Tekkub, I did it to prove a point. |
| 08:50.58 | Rowne | I haven't though, on equal levels, sure. |
| 08:51.02 | Rowne | Not low levels. |
| 08:51.10 | Tekkub | in fact horde doing that the other night is what made me leave my good guild |
| 08:51.29 | Tekkub | I couldn't take being on PvP any longer |
| 08:51.33 | Rowne | Bah, we need to brainwash any Horders who'd do that, I guess I've been lucky. |
| 08:51.43 | Tekkub | it was a rouge |
| 08:51.55 | Tain | Darn reds |
| 08:51.57 | Rowne | The Rogue class needs to not exist for the Horde. It's so ... cowardly. |
| 08:52.07 | Tekkub | he'd wait till we engaged 2-3 elites then jump in and fuck us up and vanish |
| 08:52.09 | Tain | Bah. |
| 08:52.14 | Rowne | Rogues are cowardly. |
| 08:52.17 | Tekkub | yea rowne I agree |
| 08:52.19 | Tain | Rogues are crafty. |
| 08:52.20 | Rowne | Whom else would hide from battle? |
| 08:52.25 | Tekkub | wholeheartedly |
| 08:52.28 | Rowne | Yeah but it's not /Horde/ is my point. |
| 08:52.32 | Rowne | Horde are honourable. |
| 08:52.35 | Rowne | Except for maybe, the undead. |
| 08:52.41 | Tekkub | it's the one class i couldn't stand to play more that 5 levels |
| 08:52.51 | Rowne | Talk to any of the NPCs, either Orc, Troll or Tauren, they're /obsessed/ with honour. |
| 08:52.54 | Tekkub | undead are just pissed off that's all |
| 08:52.57 | Tain | I keep forgetting that I've agreed to disagree with Rowne's point of view on all of this. |
| 08:53.02 | Tekkub | they have much anger |
| 08:53.08 | Rowne | This is true. |
| 08:53.23 | kergoth | I like rogues. They use whatever advantages they can get to win, and as a realist, I can respect that. |
| 08:53.25 | Tekkub | troll are all about da voodoo :P |
| 08:53.26 | Rowne | The Horde, if played properly, is everything I love though. |
| 08:53.55 | Tekkub | see but ker... that's the thing... |
| 08:54.00 | Tekkub | the rogue CLASS yes |
| 08:54.02 | Tekkub | I agree |
| 08:54.03 | Rowne | They're very sharing and communistic (the Taurens are, at least), they're obsessed with honour, they're actually -really- chivalrous, they praise bravery, they have codes of conduct nad so on and so on ... |
| 08:54.11 | Tekkub | but player who play rogues... no |
| 08:54.25 | Rowne | People know how to play their class but not their faction. |
| 08:54.29 | Tain | Players who play every class and race are assholes. |
| 08:54.51 | Tekkub | heh, I gravitate towards tauren and galka cause my dad raised me with rather native-american beliefs |
| 08:55.06 | Rowne | I latched onto those naturally. |
| 08:55.06 | Tekkub | and by my luck I find em sexy too |
| 08:55.10 | Rowne | Same as communistic/pantisocratic beliefs. |
| 08:55.35 | Tain | See I like the Undead beliefs. |
| 08:55.40 | Rowne | I kept thinking to myself that 'Hey, socialist is pretty good. Surely it can be better than this though.' and even as a kid, I do my research. |
| 08:55.49 | kergoth | if it werent for my tendency to pick a race based purely on the racial attributes that benefit my character, i'd go undead by default |
| 08:55.49 | Rowne | Er, do/did, tenses, stuff. |
| 08:55.55 | Tain | Pissed off and angry at everyone, including their supposed allies. |
| 08:56.07 | Rowne | I don't believe it though. |
| 08:56.09 | Tekkub | undead are just pissed :P... if the pallies weren't out to unquestionably kill them all it'd be better |
| 08:56.12 | Rowne | Except for Sylvanas, anyway. |
| 08:56.20 | Rowne | I think some of them are actually pretty damned decent. |
| 08:56.25 | Rowne | Like the ones that hang out in Spirit Rise. |
| 08:56.29 | Tekkub | but the Alliace doesn't see them as scourage and forsaken |
| 08:56.31 | Rowne | In Thunder Bluff. |
| 08:56.43 | Rowne | You know what's funny, Tekkub? |
| 08:56.44 | Tekkub | Argent Dawn does tho, I like the AD |
| 08:56.48 | Rowne | There's no 'undead' in the models. |
| 08:56.54 | Rowne | There's Tauren, Orc, Troll, Scourge. |
| 08:56.56 | Rowne | I shit you not. |
| 08:57.07 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 08:57.13 | Rowne | So I think the devs hold that viewpoint too. Asses. :p |
| 08:57.25 | Tekkub | I'm amused that the pally undead stuff doesn't apply to forsaken |
| 08:57.40 | Tekkub | so the devs are split |
| 08:57.46 | Tain | Forsaken aren't stupid enough to fall for that flimflam |
| 08:57.51 | Rowne | "But it's an undead! Oh, Light. Hast thou forsaken me?!", "Yes. Piss off.", "... dammit." |
| 08:57.53 | kergoth | hehe |
| 08:57.55 | Tekkub | in a worldview they don't... in a game balance view they do |
| 08:58.15 | Rowne | Oh, ker? |
| 08:58.24 | Rowne | Did you post in the OO initiative discussion? |
| 08:58.28 | Rowne | You neeeed to post there if not. |
| 08:58.38 | Rowne | I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle against the procedural nuts. |
| 08:59.16 | Tain | Sometimes you feel like a nut. |
| 08:59.19 | Tain | Sometimes you don't. |
| 08:59.26 | Industrial | <Tain> Players who play every class and race are assholes. |
| 08:59.28 | Industrial | thanks |
| 08:59.32 | Industrial | :] |
| 08:59.39 | *** join/##ace Tain (i=Shrubber@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 08:59.39 | kergoth | Rowne: not yet. url me |
| 09:00.04 | Industrial | i have like 20 characters |
| 09:00.08 | Industrial | all lvl 10-15 |
| 09:00.09 | Industrial | :p |
| 09:00.20 | Tain | I didn't say ALL players are assholes. |
| 09:00.23 | Industrial | pread around on pvp normal rppvp and rp servers |
| 09:00.25 | Industrial | spread* |
| 09:00.34 | Industrial | and no lvl 60's :( |
| 09:00.38 | Tain | All classes and races have players who are assholes. |
| 09:00.39 | Industrial | but thats my own fault |
| 09:00.50 | Industrial | i cant decide and roll another |
| 09:00.51 | Industrial | :p |
| 09:01.29 | Rowne | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2512 |
| 09:01.29 | Tain | I've got 2 60s. |
| 09:01.36 | Tekkub | wait! |
| 09:01.43 | Tekkub | I have your answer! |
| 09:01.44 | Tain | But my first I'll probably never play again except as an Auction House whore. |
| 09:01.58 | Tekkub | I need a latenight duo partner that will level with me |
| 09:02.02 | Tekkub | and I want to g oRP |
| 09:02.07 | Tekkub | ^^^ |
| 09:02.23 | Rowne | You know though, I'm tempted to build a specific AddOn based on my recent findings ... |
| 09:02.35 | Industrial | Tain: why? |
| 09:02.52 | Tain | Not fun anymore |
| 09:02.57 | Rowne | Something that watches the chat-log. If a player kills another player and the victim doesn't attack back, if my chat-log happens to spot that, I put that player on auto-ignore. So if they're Horde, I won't have to deal with 'em. |
| 09:03.33 | Tekkub | hrm... |
| 09:03.44 | Rowne | I'm tempted to put a count in that too, to turn it into a shame-list AddOn. |
| 09:03.44 | Tekkub | interesting theory |
| 09:04.06 | Rowne | I'd love to post weekly shame lists on my server forum. :p |
| 09:04.14 | Rowne | I'd come over as an arsehole but I wouldn't care. |
| 09:04.15 | Tekkub | hell if people would use it en-mass it could be a ganker-census |
| 09:04.24 | Rowne | Exactly. |
| 09:04.26 | Tekkub | upload to a common server |
| 09:04.53 | Tekkub | too bad most people who play on PvP do it cause the want to gank at some point |
| 09:05.06 | Tekkub | at least, that's what i gather from my guild... |
| 09:05.12 | Tekkub | it's one of two things... |
| 09:05.31 | Tekkub | "I want to gank" or "I have friends who want to gank and I'm here to play with them" |
| 09:06.02 | Rowne | Yeah but it'd be funny for an RP PvP server, to separate the gankers from the roleplayers. |
| 09:06.20 | Tekkub | :) |
| 09:06.50 | Tekkub | so, Rowners, you gonna come to the US servers and duo with me? |
| 09:07.05 | weab2 | that guild sounds like it sucks ;p |
| 09:07.11 | weab2 | meh. broken name again |
| 09:07.14 | Rowne | "Time for this week's shame-list folks. Look out for your name in You've Been Shamed! It'll make you unpopular with your friends and you'll be seen as an unattractive, balding middle-aged man who gets his jollies off this kind of thing. How high of a ranking can you get in my list?" |
| 09:07.42 | Tekkub | it should weight results by the level difference too |
| 09:07.47 | Rowne | Yup. |
| 09:07.59 | Tekkub | 60 killing a 20 worth more than a 50 killing a 45 |
| 09:08.26 | Rowne | That'd make a lot of sense. |
| 09:08.35 | Rowne | But everyone who kills a person who doesn't strike back still gets points, regardless. |
| 09:08.39 | Rowne | Even if it's an even level match. |
| 09:08.43 | Rowne | They just get more points by doing an uneven. |
| 09:08.48 | Tekkub | pehaps bonus points if the player is taking damage from a mob |
| 09:08.57 | Rowne | Hahaha, yes! |
| 09:09.03 | Rowne | So damn tempting ... |
| 09:09.06 | Tekkub | :) |
| 09:09.43 | Tekkub | ohand make a special category for people who die to neutral city guards |
| 09:10.47 | Rowne | We'd have to figure out how to pub it though. |
| 09:10.52 | Rowne | Or compress it like Thottbot does. |
| 09:10.58 | Tekkub | yar |
| 09:10.59 | Rowne | So people would be less inclined to tinker with the results. |
| 09:11.09 | Tekkub | yea |
| 09:11.14 | Tekkub | hey |
| 09:11.24 | Tekkub | 1.9 is adding bitwise library |
| 09:11.36 | Tekkub | Iriel is/was toying with blowfish |
| 09:11.39 | Rowne | Oooh ... |
| 09:11.40 | Tekkub | ^^ |
| 09:12.08 | Rowne | I might actually start toying with this, then. |
| 09:12.29 | Rowne | So ... let's say, 5 points as a default equal-level gank and then +5 points for every level higher than the target and an extra +5 if a mob is attacking? |
| 09:13.01 | Tekkub | wel if it's all 5's just use 1 |
| 09:13.04 | Tekkub | :P |
| 09:13.33 | Tekkub | I say make mob a percent modifier |
| 09:13.41 | weab | conditionals like mob attacking rather than comparison of level sound more like percentages to me |
| 09:13.42 | Tekkub | then it'll hurt 60vs20 even more |
| 09:13.59 | Tekkub | weab get out of my brain |
| 09:14.15 | weab | i thought it first i just said more |
| 09:14.17 | Tain | Rowne what server do you play City of villians on? |
| 09:14.17 | weab | ! |
| 09:14.32 | Tekkub | whateva! |
| 09:14.40 | Rowne | Tain: Eu. :/ |
| 09:14.46 | Tain | Ew |
| 09:14.50 | Rowne | Hey ... |
| 09:14.53 | Rowne | They're good people. |
| 09:15.01 | Rowne | They're my kinsmen. |
| 09:15.06 | Tain | The EU is dead to me! |
| 09:15.15 | Rowne | Britain is just as alive as ever. |
| 09:15.20 | Rowne | If you pick your friends carefully. |
| 09:15.28 | Tain | It's too far. |
| 09:15.29 | Tekkub | I hate you guys.. you distract me from actually writing mods |
| 09:15.30 | Tekkub | :P |
| 09:15.57 | Tain | You don't write the mods, the mods choose to express themselves through you. |
| 09:16.16 | Rowne | And I now SO want to do a weekly shame list. |
| 09:16.18 | Tain | You are merely a vessel, a conveyance to ease the ideas into being. |
| 09:16.23 | Rowne | In a way that couldn't be hacked. |
| 09:16.48 | Rowne | I'd feel as if I were really doing something for the -good- of the community then, which isn't just AddOn work alone. |
| 09:16.58 | Rowne | Because, nobody wants to talk to ganking losers, do they? |
| 09:17.12 | weab | shrug |
| 09:17.22 | Tekkub | yes well, you delay their existance |
| 09:17.24 | weab | i know some very nice people who gank sometimes. |
| 09:17.34 | Tain | Maybe, but just remember it's a tiny percentage of people who play the game that actually read forums. |
| 09:17.37 | Rowne | Who gank innocent people who -don't strike back-? |
| 09:17.40 | Rowne | That's the point. |
| 09:17.47 | weab | sure |
| 09:17.50 | Rowne | ... |
| 09:17.52 | weab | level 20's when they're 60 |
| 09:17.54 | Rowne | Then they're not nice, they're acting. |
| 09:17.58 | weab | etc |
| 09:18.08 | Rowne | Anyone with even a marginal shred of decency wouldn't do it. |
| 09:18.20 | weab | i think you take it way, way too seriously then |
| 09:18.22 | Rowne | Society decays because of these people! |
| 09:18.26 | Rowne | Of course I do. |
| 09:18.31 | Tain | Damn, the US passed marginal about eight years ago. |
| 09:18.31 | Rowne | I play my faction. :p |
| 09:18.37 | weab | i mean like mental defect serious |
| 09:18.47 | Rowne | Oooh, I'm not the only brown-noser now. |
| 09:19.19 | Rowne | Of course, an opinion has to be a "mental defect", riiiiight. |
| 09:19.21 | weab | i'm pretty near what a lot of people would consider a carebear on my pvp server |
| 09:19.36 | Rowne | Yeah but it's difference in opinions. |
| 09:19.39 | Rowne | Everything's an opinion. |
| 09:19.40 | weab | but i've killed people who didnt deserve it or who had no chance |
| 09:19.45 | Rowne | And for my opinion, I have a "mental defect". |
| 09:19.46 | Rowne | Yay me. |
| 09:19.54 | Rowne | Everything's subjective. |
| 09:19.57 | Tain | You're in good company. |
| 09:20.34 | weab | its just part of the game |
| 09:20.57 | Rowne | Ah-hah, so IC, we're not allowed to have or keep track of 'criminals'? |
| 09:21.00 | weab | its only a question of ones morals or values or ethics or whatever if they obsess over doing it and get off on causing misery |
| 09:21.01 | Tekkub | see that's why I think PvP rules are bullshit |
| 09:21.08 | RasmusKL | Rowne! :-) |
| 09:21.16 | Tekkub | cause they encouge needless strife |
| 09:21.21 | RasmusKL | Been looking for you. |
| 09:21.24 | Rowne | weab, I'm talking about an RP PvP server, in-character. |
| 09:21.25 | weab | which i dont believe is the case at all for many people who do gank now and then |
| 09:21.39 | Rowne | Weab, I'm talking about an RP-PvP server, in-character. ;p |
| 09:21.41 | Rowne | Subjective. |
| 09:21.44 | Tekkub | I think you should choose PvP or PvE at char creatin |
| 09:21.55 | Tekkub | then you can play with friends |
| 09:22.01 | Tekkub | still be ganked if you want |
| 09:22.02 | RasmusKL | And then be able to change it with a week cooldown imo. |
| 09:22.08 | weab | you mean in character from your characters perspective? |
| 09:22.18 | Rowne | Yeah but it'd be funny to play a man of the state, a chieftain of the laws on an RP server. |
| 09:22.19 | Tekkub | but can't let PvP wear off if you choose the gankable path |
| 09:22.22 | Rowne | And uphold a shame list. |
| 09:22.26 | Rowne | Weab: Yes. |
| 09:22.31 | Rowne | That's why I said RP-PvP, not PvP. |
| 09:22.38 | Tekkub | week cooldown works |
| 09:22.41 | Rowne | That's why I said "to separate the roleplayers from the gankers". |
| 09:22.53 | Tekkub | make PvE with /pvp have a weeklong cooldown |
| 09:23.04 | Tekkub | okey, maybe 12hr is more realistic |
| 09:23.14 | Tekkub | no... week |
| 09:23.19 | weab | i could think of valid roleplaying reasons to "gank" unfairly |
| 09:23.27 | Rowne | Exactly! |
| 09:23.34 | Rowne | And I could think of valid, RP reasons to call you a shamed criminal. |
| 09:23.40 | Rowne | So ... your point is? |
| 09:23.59 | weab | well you said you were seperating gankers from roleplayers |
| 09:24.00 | Rowne | Note that my system would only detect those who kill people who don't attack back. |
| 09:24.13 | weab | i'm not talking people who hide behind rp to be dicks |
| 09:24.20 | Rowne | I am. |
| 09:24.23 | Rowne | I have been all the time. |
| 09:24.25 | weab | i know |
| 09:24.29 | weab | but thats my point |
| 09:24.32 | Rowne | Then it's a difference of opinion. |
| 09:24.39 | Rowne | And nothing more. |
| 09:24.46 | weab | i think there are still a couple that would be valid rp reasons |
| 09:24.57 | Rowne | Not without them being criminals. |
| 09:25.02 | Rowne | Or at least dishonourable. |
| 09:25.14 | weab | example, you're an orc who was imprisoned and tortured for years since childhood by humans |
| 09:25.18 | Rowne | I can't think of a way you could be a level 60 and kill a level 14 fisherman and not be dishonourable. |
| 09:25.24 | Rowne | Even those Orcs wouldn't. |
| 09:25.27 | Rowne | Read the faction texts. |
| 09:25.28 | weab | you have no mercy for them and kill any human on sight if possible |
| 09:25.31 | Rowne | They're obsessed with honour. |
| 09:25.37 | Rowne | They don't do it because they think the Alliance -would- do it. |
| 09:25.39 | weab | well whatever, undead then |
| 09:25.48 | weab | the point isnt the race |
| 09:25.50 | Tekkub | *coughThrallcough* |
| 09:25.55 | Rowne | Then the undead would be widely shamed. |
| 09:26.13 | Rowne | The Horde are obsessed with honour. |
| 09:26.17 | Rowne | IC, I only see that I'm right. |
| 09:26.30 | weab | undead dont give a damn about honor |
| 09:26.31 | Rowne | Have you ever talked with Thrall or read his Lore, as Tekkub said? |
| 09:26.34 | Rowne | Exactly. |
| 09:26.37 | Rowne | Then they'd be widely shamed. |
| 09:26.50 | weab | actually i read the warcraft book about thrall |
| 09:26.53 | Rowne | That'd be an IC aspect of them. |
| 09:26.58 | weab | so yeah i know orcs are honorable |
| 09:27.00 | Rowne | Then you should know this already. |
| 09:27.05 | weab | but it wasnt the point |
| 09:27.09 | Rowne | What was? |
| 09:27.12 | Tekkub | I need to read WotA Book 1, I got it last week :) |
| 09:27.32 | RasmusKL | Rowne, when you have time for a Timex question, please do a message with my name it it :-) |
| 09:27.39 | Rowne | If I'm a Chieftain keeping track of dishonourable people ... what's your point? |
| 09:27.54 | weab | i guess i probably just misunderstood the purpose of this project. |
| 09:28.02 | Rowne | I think you did. |
| 09:28.04 | weab | so i'll just leave it alone then |
| 09:28.14 | Rowne | I wouldn't run it on a PvP server. |
| 09:28.15 | Tekkub | Rowne likes to RP powerful leader who rule with an iron fist |
| 09:28.15 | Rowne | That'd be stupid. |
| 09:28.23 | Tekkub | [Rowne] Obey the fist! |
| 09:28.33 | Rowne | *Coughs.* No I don't. |
| 09:28.35 | Rowne | I just like honour. |
| 09:28.37 | Rowne | A lot. |
| 09:28.45 | Tekkub | so that's your rules :P |
| 09:28.50 | Rowne | Thrall's rules! |
| 09:28.57 | Tekkub | you honorlusting bastard! |
| 09:29.06 | Rowne | Exactly. *Happy.* |
| 09:29.19 | Rowne | Why do you think I play Horde? |
| 09:29.19 | Tekkub | Are you questoning my honor?!?!?!1111!!! |
| 09:29.33 | Rowne | I mean, I talked to all the leaders and the Alliance have a surprising lack of it. |
| 09:29.49 | Tekkub | I want an NPC to say "OMGWTF!" ... just once... |
| 09:29.51 | Rowne | Then there's Thrall; "Honour honour honour honour ... something else, did I mention honour?" |
| 09:30.00 | Rowne | An NPC has already said PWNZD. |
| 09:30.01 | Rowne | by the way. |
| 09:30.06 | Tekkub | heh the ally leaders are odd |
| 09:30.17 | Tekkub | dwarf's just a big ol beardyhead |
| 09:30.30 | Tekkub | human's a damn kid/dragons |
| 09:30.30 | Rowne | And our lands aren't sacred to them! |
| 09:30.35 | Rowne | Sorry ... Flintlocke flashback. |
| 09:30.41 | Rowne | That's true. |
| 09:30.41 | Tekkub | gnome is fitting, I'll give ya that |
| 09:30.50 | Rowne | True of the Gnomes, too. |
| 09:30.53 | Tekkub | havn't talked to the head drood |
| 09:31.06 | Rowne | I always wanted to ... yanno, battle my way into Stormwind just to give the boy-King a wedgie. |
| 09:31.11 | Rowne | I -need- a /wedgie emote. |
| 09:31.13 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 09:31.44 | Rowne | *Wedgie!*, "Now will you stop being such an ass?", "No, guards!", "*Sigh.* Back home I go then I guess." |
| 09:32.32 | Rowne | But yeah, that's why I play the Horde, they just want to be Good, Decent and left to live their lives. |
| 09:32.41 | Rowne | I wish more Horde players knew how to play their damn faction. ;p |
| 09:33.37 | Tekkub | yup |
| 09:33.45 | Tekkub | That's how I am ^^ |
| 09:34.14 | Rowne | Yup, if a player played their faction then; "For the Horde!" would actually mean something. |
| 09:34.22 | Tekkub | hell, first time I did the druid bear quest... |
| 09:34.29 | Tekkub | kill the furblog guy... |
| 09:34.39 | Tekkub | read the text (always read the text) |
| 09:34.40 | Rowne | You objected too? |
| 09:34.44 | Tekkub | and I /bow |
| 09:34.56 | Rowne | They make it sound like you're battling it to the death. |
| 09:34.57 | Tekkub | 5 min later I realized I bowed to an NPC |
| 09:35.00 | Rowne | Rather than just fighting it. |
| 09:35.04 | Rowne | ... hahahaha. |
| 09:35.26 | Rowne | I actually went home and ranted at the Elders about the Elves. |
| 09:35.28 | Rowne | And no, I'm not kidding. |
| 09:35.34 | Rowne | I had a blast, people thought I was crazy. |
| 09:35.41 | Rowne | "And they treat us like pets!" |
| 09:35.43 | Tekkub | it was like, conditioned response, the thing gave me it's power and I just /bow in reflex |
| 09:35.50 | Rowne | *Nod.* |
| 09:36.30 | Rowne | "Now I'm supposed to go off and fetch their dinner for them, to kill such a majestic being. How Elder could you dream of sending me to these people? I ... find myself doubting your wisdom." |
| 09:36.31 | Tekkub | I like being someone's pet bear |
| 09:36.36 | Rowne | Then later on I found out it was misguided. |
| 09:36.40 | Rowne | So I went back and apologized. |
| 09:36.44 | Tekkub | but then I tend to be a submissive cub IRL |
| 09:37.00 | Rowne | I do to some people, I don't to others. |
| 09:37.05 | Rowne | I'm very pack. |
| 09:37.27 | Tekkub | I don't like group of more than 3-4 |
| 09:37.40 | Tekkub | so I tend more bearish that wolfish |
| 09:37.52 | Tekkub | plus I love to sleep for long periods of time |
| 09:38.07 | Tekkub | I have a nasty habit of hibernating in cold weather |
| 09:38.07 | Rowne | I'm the opposite. |
| 09:38.14 | Rowne | I purposefully stay in cold environments to keep myself aware. |
| 09:38.25 | Tekkub | I love the cold :) |
| 09:38.34 | Rowne | I thrive in minus temperatures and ... people think I'm nuts. ;p |
| 09:38.38 | Tekkub | mostly cause it makes a warm bed even better |
| 09:38.43 | Rowne | This is also true. |
| 09:38.48 | Rowne | And the cold is regulatable. |
| 09:38.53 | Tekkub | yes |
| 09:38.54 | Rowne | However, I'm feeling -horribly- guilty right now. |
| 09:38.58 | Tekkub | too hot is just too hot |
| 09:38.59 | Rowne | So time to attend to my duty. |
| 09:39.04 | Rowne | What'd you need to know, Rasmus? |
| 09:39.09 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 09:39.12 | Tekkub | I'll go code |
| 09:39.12 | Rowne | RasmusKL if you're task-switched. |
| 09:39.23 | RasmusKL | Yep. |
| 09:39.27 | RasmusKL | Was |
| 09:39.34 | RasmusKL | Well, have 2 questions for TimexBars |
| 09:39.39 | Rowne | Shoot. |
| 09:39.50 | Rowne | If the documentation doesn't cover them then I have work to do. |
| 09:39.50 | RasmusKL | First, is it possible to have 2 bars with the same name, now that we have textures? :-) |
| 09:39.58 | Rowne | Nope. |
| 09:40.03 | Rowne | No need for it. |
| 09:40.10 | RasmusKL | Sure there is :-) |
| 09:40.12 | Rowne | Just label the bars. |
| 09:40.15 | Rowne | Nono, hear me out. |
| 09:40.20 | Rowne | [1. ...] [2. ...] |
| 09:40.22 | Rowne | And so on. |
| 09:40.28 | RasmusKL | That doesn't look nice :-) |
| 09:40.46 | Rowne | It'd be harsher on resources though if I were to reverse things now. |
| 09:40.50 | Rowne | I wrote it for individual bars. |
| 09:40.56 | Rowne | And it'd be harder to refresh bars. |
| 09:41.02 | RasmusKL | Yeh, I know :-/ |
| 09:41.20 | RasmusKL | I was thinking to add an id field to the bars, so if it had an id, it'd use that, otherwise just the name. |
| 09:41.44 | Rowne | Yeah but that's still an extra, unnessescary variable. But not a bad idea. |
| 09:41.47 | Rowne | Something to consider. |
| 09:41.53 | RasmusKL | Well, my problem is this. |
| 09:42.09 | RasmusKL | Since I've added the textures, people are requesting bars without the spellname |
| 09:42.12 | RasmusKL | just with the target |
| 09:42.16 | RasmusKL | and it makes sense.. |
| 09:42.28 | RasmusKL | But.. it's not possible to have 2 spells on 1 monster then :-) |
| 09:42.37 | Rowne | Hm, noted. |
| 09:42.50 | RasmusKL | Well, anyways, if you find a good solution for it, it'd be nice. |
| 09:42.57 | RasmusKL | Otherwise I might just do a workaround |
| 09:43.02 | Rowne | I'm tempted to put the ID in the string. |
| 09:43.10 | Rowne | Like; id..text |
| 09:43.13 | Rowne | "ID1 Some Spell" |
| 09:43.17 | RasmusKL | Like name by bar: Rowne (Faerie Fire) |
| 09:43.30 | Rowne | How does my solution sound? |
| 09:43.38 | RasmusKL | Hm |
| 09:43.42 | RasmusKL | well, would it show on the bar? |
| 09:43.45 | Rowne | Nope. |
| 09:43.48 | RasmusKL | Then yes. |
| 09:44.05 | Rowne | Then again, no, that's a bad idea. |
| 09:44.08 | Rowne | Very bad idea. |
| 09:44.10 | Rowne | Scratch that. |
| 09:44.13 | Rowne | I'll come up with something. |
| 09:44.23 | RasmusKL | My other question is actually also a feature request :-) |
| 09:44.27 | RasmusKL | But again with a good reason :-P |
| 09:44.36 | RasmusKL | and should be very easy. |
| 09:44.57 | Rowne | Your first request is incredibly difficult, even though it shouldn't be. *Sheepish.* |
| 09:45.03 | Rowne | It's just the way it was written from day one. |
| 09:45.06 | RasmusKL | I'd like a function to change the duration of a bar, while it's running. |
| 09:45.15 | Rowne | If I support text and id IDs, that bloats the code by twice. |
| 09:45.19 | RasmusKL | I know, I've been thinking about it for the last few days :-) |
| 09:45.21 | Rowne | I'd need to go text or IDs, really. |
| 09:45.35 | Rowne | If I went the ID path, I'd have to completely drop text IDs. |
| 09:46.04 | Rowne | That's the only way to avoid the dual-bloat. |
| 09:46.08 | RasmusKL | Well, you already have id's in your barnaming, TimexBar1, 2...30 |
| 09:46.09 | Rowne | I'll do that if that's what you think is best. |
| 09:46.19 | Rowne | Yeah but you can't use those. |
| 09:46.24 | Rowne | You can't say; "I want to use bar 5." |
| 09:46.27 | Rowne | That won't work. |
| 09:46.28 | RasmusKL | It's not that important atm, I can probably work something out. |
| 09:46.32 | Rowne | If AddOn 3 is using Bar 5, you'll steal it. |
| 09:46.37 | Rowne | "Hey, WTF?! Give me back my bar!" |
| 09:46.44 | RasmusKL | I know :-) |
| 09:46.52 | RasmusKL | I didn't say it had an easy solution :-) |
| 09:46.58 | Rowne | I think there is one though. |
| 09:47.01 | RasmusKL | But you did understand my reasons for wanting it :-) |
| 09:47.03 | Rowne | We have to dump texts for IDs. |
| 09:47.14 | Rowne | I do. |
| 09:47.19 | Rowne | So you can have multiple spell effects on one mob. |
| 09:47.24 | Rowne | Like Rip and Howl on a mob. |
| 09:47.27 | Rowne | With a Druid in feral form. |
| 09:47.34 | RasmusKL | Without listing the spell name |
| 09:47.38 | Rowne | Exactly. |
| 09:47.39 | Rowne | I realize that. |
| 09:47.49 | RasmusKL | But the other way I can do it is just to make long bar names, so the end actually won't show. |
| 09:47.52 | Rowne | That's why I said that we should go IDs for IDs, text for text. |
| 09:47.55 | Rowne | Where text is optional. |
| 09:48.01 | Rowne | So we can supply "" for text. |
| 09:48.04 | Rowne | And it won't complain. |
| 09:48.07 | Rowne | Or even nil for text. |
| 09:48.30 | Rowne | I mean, that seems the best solution, in my mind. |
| 09:48.32 | Rowne | For what you want. |
| 09:48.35 | Rowne | So I think I'll go with that. |
| 09:48.36 | RasmusKL | But then I'll have more work in AceTimer :-P |
| 09:48.42 | Rowne | No you won't. |
| 09:48.47 | RasmusKL | Yeah, I will :-) |
| 09:48.50 | Rowne | How so? |
| 09:49.07 | RasmusKL | Since right now, recasting a spell, TimexBars make it very easy to replace the current one (it just does so) |
| 09:49.20 | Rowne | That'll still exist. |
| 09:49.26 | Rowne | New ID will replace old ID. |
| 09:49.39 | Rowne | You'll just be able to use say, a randomized ID or a special ID for bars. |
| 09:49.47 | Rowne | Hell, you could use rand(1, 500) and then self. store it. |
| 09:49.51 | Rowne | If you liked. |
| 09:49.53 | Rowne | And then you could refresh that on a whim. |
| 09:49.55 | RasmusKL | Well, what if I have faerie fire on 2 mobs then? |
| 09:49.56 | Rowne | If that makes sense. |
| 09:50.01 | Rowne | It won't matter. |
| 09:50.03 | Rowne | At all. |
| 09:50.14 | Rowne | Because each bar will go by ID. |
| 09:50.19 | RasmusKL | I don't think you should go with random numbers honestly :-) |
| 09:50.20 | Rowne | You'll dynamically supply an ID. |
| 09:50.27 | Rowne | That's not what I mean. |
| 09:50.31 | Rowne | Gods I suck at explaining. |
| 09:50.38 | Rowne | This is why I need Tain to look at my docs. :P |
| 09:50.46 | Rowne | Okay ... like ... |
| 09:51.01 | Rowne | ID = "FairieFire" ... give me a chance and let me finish, 'ere. |
| 09:51.15 | RasmusKL | Oooh. |
| 09:51.17 | Rowne | Check bar, if ID = "FairieFire" exists, ID = "FairieFire 2". |
| 09:51.26 | Rowne | So you just do like ... |
| 09:51.30 | Rowne | Num = Num + 1. |
| 09:51.31 | RasmusKL | I thought you were talking about numerical ids. |
| 09:51.34 | Rowne | Fairie Fire 1, Fairie Fire 2. |
| 09:51.36 | Rowne | Hell no. |
| 09:51.40 | Rowne | I was using that as an example. |
| 09:51.42 | Rowne | A bad example. |
| 09:51.43 | Rowne | :p |
| 09:51.46 | RasmusKL | Yep. |
| 09:51.47 | RasmusKL | :-P |
| 09:52.02 | Rowne | The IDs would still be text. |
| 09:52.04 | Rowne | But dynamic text. |
| 09:52.05 | RasmusKL | So actually, I can use my current barname as the new id, and then customize the title, which is exactly what I want. |
| 09:52.08 | Rowne | That you wouldn't have to show the player. |
| 09:52.13 | Rowne | Yup. |
| 09:52.30 | RasmusKL | That was totally what I suggested in the beginning of the conversation, I must suck at explaining too :-P |
| 09:52.45 | RasmusKL | Talk about a pointless discussion :-P |
| 09:52.47 | Rowne | Yeah but I thought you wanted texts as IDs and IDs as IDs. |
| 09:52.51 | Rowne | If you get my point. |
| 09:52.55 | RasmusKL | I do. |
| 09:52.58 | Rowne | I'm saying we dump bar-text as IDs completely. |
| 09:53.02 | Rowne | Are you okay with that? |
| 09:53.10 | RasmusKL | Yep. |
| 09:53.13 | Rowne | Groovy. |
| 09:53.14 | RasmusKL | It'll give a lot more flexibility. |
| 09:53.16 | Rowne | Feature-request hten, shoot. |
| 09:53.25 | RasmusKL | I did :-) |
| 09:53.28 | RasmusKL | I'll repeat. |
| 09:53.34 | Rowne | Oops. |
| 09:53.39 | Rowne | Y'know, my sight, I miss things. |
| 09:53.40 | RasmusKL | Need a function to change the time left on a bar. |
| 09:54.20 | Rowne | Ahh, ChangeDuration for bars? |
| 09:54.22 | RasmusKL | like ChangeDuration(ID, new_duration, new_max_duration) |
| 09:54.26 | Rowne | *Amused.* |
| 09:54.29 | RasmusKL | :-) |
| 09:54.37 | Rowne | Okay, I'll go and do both now. |
| 09:54.44 | RasmusKL | where new_max_duration can be nil, for not setting it. |
| 09:54.48 | RasmusKL | Need it for "resurrecting" bars. |
| 09:55.12 | RasmusKL | Since resist/immune/interrupt messages come after I've actually finished processing a spell, I will need to resurrect the old bar if it's a recast. |
| 09:56.40 | RasmusKL | One of my guild druids complained, because he used to spam the regrowth button, then moving midcast to interrupt it if not needed. And it resulted in the bars disappearing all the time :-P |
| 09:56.59 | Rowne | Done. |
| 09:57.06 | Rowne | Texts and IDs are now separate. |
| 09:57.10 | Rowne | The system is now ... |
| 09:57.19 | Rowne | {id, txt, tmr, re}, |
| 09:57.24 | Rowne | Where txt can be nil. |
| 09:58.14 | RasmusKL | Nice. |
| 09:58.38 | Rowne | Now CD. |
| 09:58.57 | Rowne | Wait ... wait ... |
| 09:59.02 | Rowne | New duration? >.< Oboy ... |
| 09:59.12 | Rowne | New max duration is going to be easy, new max duration is going to be fun. |
| 09:59.17 | Rowne | Er, new duration is going to be fun. |
| 09:59.20 | Rowne | Max'll be easy. |
| 09:59.23 | RasmusKL | Well. |
| 09:59.26 | Rowne | I'll get it done, though. |
| 09:59.32 | Rowne | No worries, leave it to me. |
| 09:59.36 | RasmusKL | Be sure to watch the effect on repeating bars :-P |
| 10:00.12 | Rowne | You mean a max-duration shouldn't carry over? |
| 10:00.21 | Rowne | In what scenario would a max-duration change not carry over? |
| 10:00.54 | Rowne | I mean, wouldn't it be down to the AddOn to change that back and forth? I think if I reset it with Timex every time, it creates more work for the AddOn and for Timex. |
| 10:00.57 | Rowne | Unless I'm missing something. |
| 10:01.11 | RasmusKL | Yeah. |
| 10:01.16 | RasmusKL | Well, I don't know. |
| 10:01.21 | Rowne | Like if you get a bonus and it resets, it'd just mean you'd have to check that bonus over and over. |
| 10:01.24 | RasmusKL | I don't really need it for repeating timers |
| 10:01.30 | RasmusKL | It just occured to me. |
| 10:01.30 | Rowne | Rather than only refresh the bar when the time changes. |
| 10:01.40 | Rowne | I don't think it should change for repeating. |
| 10:01.45 | Rowne | Not in Timex, anyway. |
| 10:01.49 | Rowne | I think that should be down to the AddOn. |
| 10:01.55 | Rowne | Because the AddOn is judging when the numbers change. |
| 10:01.57 | Rowne | Not Timex. |
| 10:01.59 | Rowne | If that makes sense. |
| 10:02.00 | RasmusKL | It'll just change the current time left in the bar for this repetition? |
| 10:02.04 | Rowne | Yup. |
| 10:02.08 | RasmusKL | Yep, makes sense. |
| 10:02.11 | Rowne | And the max duration for all bars from there. |
| 10:02.16 | Rowne | But the current duration only for the current bar. |
| 10:02.16 | RasmusKL | Nod. |
| 10:02.28 | Rowne | Yeah, I was wondering about that. |
| 10:02.31 | Rowne | That's how Timex is too. |
| 10:02.34 | Rowne | Timex's CD, that is. |
| 10:02.47 | RasmusKL | Ah, then it's good. |
| 10:02.48 | Rowne | And with Timex's CD, I control it from Ascend's side in each function trigger. |
| 10:02.58 | Rowne | Which is why the bars now trigger functions. |
| 10:03.01 | RasmusKL | Good thing I made AceTimer, did wonders for TimexBars :-P |
| 10:03.04 | Rowne | So you can now do things with repeating bars. |
| 10:03.28 | Rowne | Hell, I got half of this from Ascend. |
| 10:03.31 | Rowne | Ascend taught me much. ;p |
| 10:03.34 | RasmusKL | :-P |
| 10:03.39 | Rowne | Especially in making it more efficient. |
| 10:03.56 | RasmusKL | Yeh, I've been trying to clean up my AceTimer code the last couple of days too. |
| 10:04.02 | Rowne | AceTimer has done wonders with feature ideas and the repeat code, no doubt. |
| 10:04.05 | *** join/##ace Suntiger (i=MoonWolf@ip51ccaa81.speed.planet.nl) |
| 10:04.08 | Rowne | But the stuff I'm adding ... Ascend ... oh yes. |
| 10:04.10 | Rowne | Hiya Moon. |
| 10:04.20 | Rowne | You'll do fine. |
| 10:04.22 | Suntiger | morning |
| 10:04.27 | Rowne | Just remember, compression is the key to victory. |
| 10:04.46 | RasmusKL | Like this? d = d + ((d / 100) * (s.x.ta.b + (tr - 1) * (s.x.ta.s or s.x.ta.b))) |
| 10:04.51 | Rowne | Especially since it seems that OO has a larger memory stamp than procedural. |
| 10:04.58 | Rowne | Yes. *Amused.* |
| 10:04.59 | MoonWolf | stupid me starting xchat when its already running |
| 10:05.05 | RasmusKL | I just wrote that today :-) |
| 10:05.06 | Rowne | Oops. |
| 10:05.15 | Rowne | Oh and I need to poke kergoth again. |
| 10:05.23 | Rowne | He didn't comment on the OO initiative stuff. |
| 10:05.25 | Rowne | He neeeeds too. |
| 10:05.27 | MoonWolf | Ordered my n52 today. |
| 10:05.33 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 10:05.38 | RasmusKL | n52? |
| 10:05.38 | Tekkub | Nostromo FTW! |
| 10:05.46 | Rowne | Nostromo devices are awesome. |
| 10:05.50 | MoonWolf | should arrive within 5 day's |
| 10:06.06 | Rowne | I still love mine and the only thing I use it for macroing anymore is AutoTravel. |
| 10:06.17 | Rowne | All my buffing, pet-stuffs, hell, everything ... is now KeyMinder movement. |
| 10:06.17 | Tekkub | so Rowne did I tell you what I'm doing for my first "real" Ace addon? |
| 10:06.27 | Rowne | Nnnnnot that I recall. |
| 10:06.36 | RasmusKL | Aw Rowne, now I actually have to update AceTimer to use the new Timex, grumble. |
| 10:06.37 | Rowne | But then, I recall very little. |
| 10:06.40 | Rowne | My mind is like a pond of zen. |
| 10:06.43 | Tekkub | I'm aceing EZDismount... naming it AceOff |
| 10:06.45 | Rowne | hahahahaha. Poor Rasmus. |
| 10:06.51 | Rowne | ... oh my. |
| 10:07.05 | Rowne | Better than AceHump, I suppose. |
| 10:07.17 | Rowne | I blame myself for that. |
| 10:07.21 | Rowne | Damned Paladin goofery. |
| 10:07.25 | RasmusKL | Please Ace MountEquip too Tekkub :-) |
| 10:07.31 | Tekkub | well I was thinking as a spoof of "Faceoff" but you're just a pervert |
| 10:07.45 | Rowne | That's the funny thing, I -do- have a perverted mind. |
| 10:07.48 | Rowne | But I'm nonsexual. |
| 10:07.49 | Rowne | Go figure. |
| 10:07.54 | RasmusKL | nonsexual? |
| 10:07.55 | Tekkub | nah I understand |
| 10:08.02 | Tekkub | my sex drive is like 0 |
| 10:08.10 | Tekkub | but I enjoy it when it happens |
| 10:08.16 | Rowne | Likewise, but I can be as flirty and dirty as hell. >.< |
| 10:08.37 | Rowne | I think it's due to chromosonal biology issues and blah but I digress. |
| 10:08.44 | Rowne | I think I have too much damn female in my male. |
| 10:08.49 | Tekkub | heh you should try living in the US and liking big furry guys |
| 10:08.57 | Tekkub | we have an abundance of big guys |
| 10:09.02 | Tekkub | it's torture |
| 10:09.06 | Rowne | Oh my. |
| 10:09.18 | Rowne | You do realize we're eventually going to alienate the hell out of ##ace, don't you? *Amused.* |
| 10:09.31 | Rowne | I have this urge to cackle like an undead, right now. |
| 10:09.32 | Tekkub | eventually? |
| 10:09.48 | Tekkub | those that don't convert to furrydom will be left behind |
| 10:10.01 | Tekkub | a new, better race will be born! |
| 10:10.11 | Rowne | Oh golly. PT (Post Tekkub), year one, things will never be the same. |
| 10:10.15 | Tekkub | wait that sounded kinda sinister |
| 10:10.28 | Tekkub | yea I have that effect |
| 10:10.29 | Rowne | Actually, it sounded like Mister Sinister. |
| 10:10.39 | Tekkub | I either sare everyone and get booted |
| 10:10.49 | Rowne | You won't get booted, not from here. |
| 10:10.50 | Tekkub | or bring the whole group to a new level |
| 10:11.02 | Rowne | That's an entirely possible possibility. |
| 10:11.07 | Tekkub | I know, not from WoWI either, Cair likes me |
| 10:11.10 | Rowne | Especially since we ended up talking about Worgen crotches yesterday. |
| 10:11.16 | Tekkub | yup |
| 10:11.18 | Rowne | Cair likes everyone. |
| 10:11.21 | Rowne | She's like that. |
| 10:11.24 | Rowne | Except zeeg. |
| 10:11.29 | Rowne | But nobody likes zeeg. |
| 10:11.40 | Tekkub | Cair's plotting to use me to have justification in banning zeeg :) |
| 10:11.49 | Rowne | Oh my. |
| 10:11.52 | Cair | baby, you gotta work at it a whole fuck of a lot harder if you're going to "bring the group to a new level" |
| 10:11.56 | Rowne | That'd be fascinating. |
| 10:12.02 | Tekkub | cause I take offense to casue use of "that's gay" and "ur a fag" |
| 10:12.15 | Rowne | So do I, it bothers me. |
| 10:12.16 | Cair | I take offense to it, too |
| 10:12.24 | Rowne | People need to learn their own damn language. |
| 10:12.25 | RasmusKL | Uhm, looking at the n52, you'd then have your mouse in 1 hand and the n52 in the other, correct? |
| 10:12.25 | MoonWolf | Everybody here is a faggy gay. |
| 10:12.31 | MoonWolf | indeed |
| 10:12.33 | Cair | but *for myself* I let it slide |
| 10:12.35 | Rowne | Rasmus: Verily. |
| 10:12.35 | Tekkub | yea but I take loud obnoxios offense to it |
| 10:12.45 | Rowne | Takkub, likewise. |
| 10:12.47 | Rowne | It's not right. |
| 10:12.51 | Rowne | It's no different to a racial slur. |
| 10:12.55 | Cair | whereas for someone else, I can act on it |
| 10:13.03 | Tekkub | "I'm fucking gay and that fucking offends me!" |
| 10:13.04 | RasmusKL | And I guess it has some kind of autofire, since you can use it for macroing? |
| 10:13.05 | Cair | because then it is me taking care of the community |
| 10:13.14 | Tekkub | yelled that across Lower Jeuno more than once |
| 10:13.18 | Rowne | Rasmus: Yup. |
| 10:13.22 | Rowne | It has INSANE macroing capabilities. |
| 10:13.28 | Cair | as opposed to "being sensitive" |
| 10:13.34 | Rowne | You can even code with it if you have LuaPad open in Warcraft and you know what you're doing. :p |
| 10:13.35 | MoonWolf | you could make it do SS SS SS SS Evisc |
| 10:13.46 | Rowne | Or you can editbox it. |
| 10:13.48 | Rowne | Either works. |
| 10:13.57 | Rowne | It can /write macros/, on the fly. |
| 10:13.59 | Rowne | I do that with mine. |
| 10:14.06 | Rowne | To hell with the maximum macro limitation. :p |
| 10:14.37 | Rowne | Just set the spaces between keypresses to zero and it enters the macro before you can blink. |
| 10:14.38 | MoonWolf | yay for luapad. or wathever you prefer. |
| 10:14.38 | RasmusKL | Ugh |
| 10:14.42 | RasmusKL | That sounds nice :-) |
| 10:14.45 | Tekkub | change of subject! You know what's ever so cute, Moonkin druids channeling and drinking! |
| 10:14.57 | MoonWolf | they can do both at the same time ? |
| 10:15.02 | Rowne | ... |
| 10:15.05 | Tekkub | no, but both are cute |
| 10:15.10 | Rowne | You amuse me way, way too much. |
| 10:15.11 | MoonWolf | okay |
| 10:15.18 | Tekkub | they kinda wiggle their ass as they channel |
| 10:15.20 | MoonWolf | you confused me, a lot. |
| 10:15.27 | RasmusKL | Btw, we should start a picture thread on the Ace forum, so as to scare everyone away from the community :-) |
| 10:15.36 | Tekkub | hrm... |
| 10:15.43 | Rowne | I'm like ... uh ... |
| 10:15.44 | Tekkub | I've been told I look like a galka |
| 10:15.44 | Rowne | Ferally against camera. |
| 10:15.51 | Tekkub | it was the greatest complement ever |
| 10:15.54 | Rowne | "YOU HAVE A CAMERA?! *Brandish lamp at, threateningly.*" |
| 10:16.12 | MoonWolf | hahahaha |
| 10:16.19 | Tekkub | slouken *drool* |
| 10:16.21 | RasmusKL | I always have red eyes on pictures for some odd reason :-/ |
| 10:16.23 | Rowne | Seriously, cameras scare the hell out of me. |
| 10:16.26 | Rowne | And I have no idea why. |
| 10:16.30 | Tekkub | I hate em too rowne |
| 10:16.38 | Cair | EVERY time I turned around, there was a gd camera being pointed at me! |
| 10:16.40 | Tekkub | but I'll do the rare faceshot |
| 10:17.09 | Rowne | I take it as mockery. Personally. |
| 10:17.34 | RasmusKL | Hehe, the first image (of a person) that google finds if you do an image search for Rowne is: http://openprojects.rarcoa.com/~justmike/photos/20000707-PartyAtLarrys/img/100_0446.JPG |
| 10:17.36 | Rowne | The thing is, I'm all for anything that's not bloody closed-source wetware. I want backups, dammit! ... and yet, the only backups that can be made are those of the parts that I would most quickly abandon. |
| 10:17.39 | Tekkub | I dunno... I've just never been one for things that feel fake and setup, pics are one of those |
| 10:17.49 | Tekkub | "dirty talk" in bed is another |
| 10:17.50 | Cair | RasmusKL: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-interface-customization&t=272901&p=1&tmp=1#post272901 |
| 10:17.57 | Rowne | Oh HELL no, I have long hair, thank you very much. |
| 10:18.08 | MoonWolf | long hair...... |
| 10:18.10 | Rowne | I have head-hair that I can sit on. |
| 10:18.24 | Tekkub | I'd have long hair if it wasn't SO FUCKING CURLY!!!! FUCK YOU FATHER"S GENES!!!!! |
| 10:18.33 | Rowne | *Amused.* |
| 10:18.34 | MoonWolf | i have 1 cm of hair, if even. |
| 10:18.37 | Rowne | Hey, grow it neck-length. |
| 10:18.41 | Rowne | That's always attractive. |
| 10:18.46 | Rowne | It's got the greek-look all over it. |
| 10:18.47 | Tekkub | I'n starting to get back hair tho... finally... at 23... |
| 10:19.04 | Rowne | Wow, I'm like, way older than you! |
| 10:19.05 | Rowne | ... I think. |
| 10:19.09 | Tekkub | heh |
| 10:19.10 | MoonWolf | .... |
| 10:19.14 | Rowne | I stopped counting a while back. |
| 10:19.23 | Tekkub | I stopped caring too... |
| 10:19.25 | Rowne | Seems like forever ago. |
| 10:19.30 | MoonWolf | Why do i doubt that you don't know your age. |
| 10:19.33 | Tekkub | someone asked me the other day and I had to thing |
| 10:19.36 | Rowne | I actually forced myself to forget. |
| 10:19.37 | Tekkub | *think |
| 10:19.41 | Rowne | I know my birth-date. |
| 10:19.43 | Tekkub | I actually did the math there |
| 10:19.43 | kergoth | i got mine wrong the other day |
| 10:19.44 | Rowne | But I'm very unsure of my age. |
| 10:19.49 | Tekkub | they were weirded out |
| 10:20.01 | kergoth | regarding rental car age 25 requirements, they're all "so you're 25, right?" and i got the answer wrong. |
| 10:20.05 | MoonWolf | I would be too. |
| 10:20.18 | Tekkub | heh |
| 10:20.30 | MoonWolf | seems like im youngest with my 18 years. |
| 10:20.30 | Rowne | I don't want to know. |
| 10:20.35 | Rowne | It takes the edge off life. |
| 10:20.47 | Rowne | It makes it depressing, there's no adventure left, you're just counting the years. |
| 10:20.50 | Rowne | If I may be so bold? |
| 10:20.51 | Rowne | Fuck that. |
| 10:21.00 | Tekkub | yup |
| 10:21.01 | MoonWolf | but, school |
| 10:21.10 | Tekkub | it's just a unit of measurement |
| 10:21.21 | Rowne | Which takes the distinctiveness away from the individual. |
| 10:21.30 | Tekkub | ina few rare cases it matters (alchy) but otherwise who cares |
| 10:21.30 | Rowne | It's part of the ... beurgoise I think the word is in society. |
| 10:21.41 | Rowne | Mmhm. |
| 10:21.48 | Rowne | I'm a teetotaller though so, yay! I have no excuse. |
| 10:21.52 | Rowne | And my sight is so bad that I can't drive. |
| 10:22.00 | Rowne | So I've never actually needed to know. |
| 10:22.04 | Tekkub | :P |
| 10:22.13 | Tekkub | I can drive, and enjoy it |
| 10:22.24 | Tekkub | latenight random roadtrips :) |
| 10:22.25 | Rowne | I want a jetcar. |
| 10:22.31 | Rowne | Dammit Firebox, you promised me a jetcar! |
| 10:22.32 | Cair | in case you haven't figured it out yet Tekkub ... rowne is fucked up literally as well as figuratively |
| 10:22.37 | Tekkub | I stick to small JP cars |
| 10:22.42 | kergoth | i'm not a big fan of driving for the sake of driving. i drive to get from point A to point B, generally |
| 10:22.50 | Tekkub | see... I run AceAutomobile |
| 10:22.51 | kergoth | though if the car is fast and fun going from point A to point B, that much the better |
| 10:22.55 | Tekkub | small and efficient |
| 10:22.55 | Rowne | This is true, there are MANY things wrong with my body. |
| 10:23.04 | Rowne | From minorly wrong to marginally and majorly. |
| 10:23.15 | Tekkub | I'm usually that way ker |
| 10:23.27 | Cair | that wasn't being mean, that was being tactlessly accurate |
| 10:23.35 | Rowne | I know, Cair. |
| 10:23.39 | Rowne | I'm used to it, it's life. |
| 10:23.39 | Tekkub | but on occation ya gotta get "out for fresh air" ... latenight drives are mine there |
| 10:23.49 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/images/crossfire/crossfire4.jpg <-my car :) |
| 10:23.50 | Rowne | It's given me a unique perspective on life though generally speaking. |
| 10:23.58 | Tekkub | I hate daytime and people, driving at night avoids both |
| 10:23.59 | Rowne | Still ... I prefer to be high up than going fast. |
| 10:24.11 | Rowne | Gotta love the Welsh mountains/hills. |
| 10:24.24 | Tekkub | ah a mtn child |
| 10:24.31 | Tekkub | I'm from the CO mtns |
| 10:24.35 | Rowne | This is where my obsession with hoofing comes from. |
| 10:24.36 | Tekkub | high up is nice |
| 10:24.43 | Rowne | If I see a high point, I MUST be there. |
| 10:24.48 | Rowne | I don't care about mounts. |
| 10:24.50 | Rowne | I care about mountains. |
| 10:25.01 | Tekkub | see that's why I ilke dorfs, Dun Morogh reminds me of CO winters |
| 10:25.22 | Rowne | I've been to Dun'Morogh ... ... ... ... frequently. *Sheepish.* |
| 10:25.24 | Rowne | As my Tauren. |
| 10:25.28 | Rowne | I run from the guards, a lot. |
| 10:25.29 | Tekkub | heh |
| 10:25.41 | Rowne | I spend my time running like hell. |
| 10:25.43 | Rowne | Until I'm safe. |
| 10:25.47 | Tekkub | yup |
| 10:25.51 | Rowne | It's dangerous there beceause I have to turn DY off. |
| 10:26.06 | Rowne | I confused the hell out of the Gnomes once though. |
| 10:26.19 | Rowne | I saved two from the low-level boss guy in the cave in the starter area. |
| 10:26.26 | Rowne | And they were like; "WTF?!" over it. |
| 10:26.31 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 10:26.36 | Rowne | I love doing that. |
| 10:26.45 | RasmusKL | :-P |
| 10:26.53 | Tekkub | I can see ally LD now... |
| 10:26.57 | Rowne | I take the low-levels as more impressionable and not yet so built up on hate. |
| 10:27.00 | Tekkub | "OMG A TAUREN!" |
| 10:27.05 | Tekkub | "KILLIT!" |
| 10:27.12 | Rowne | Actually, they were just surprised. |
| 10:27.13 | Tekkub | "No it just saved me..." |
| 10:27.20 | Rowne | Oh, right. |
| 10:27.21 | Rowne | Yes. |
| 10:27.23 | Rowne | *Amused.* |
| 10:27.30 | Rowne | I escorted them back out, too. |
| 10:27.34 | kergoth | i'm actually surprised nobody spat on me or anything when i was in the tram the other day |
| 10:27.37 | Tekkub | "KILL IT ANYWAY!" |
| 10:27.38 | Rowne | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:27.42 | kergoth | most just waved and danced and things |
| 10:27.55 | Rowne | The low-levels are like that. |
| 10:27.57 | Rowne | I like low-levels. |
| 10:28.00 | Tekkub | I filter out /spit |
| 10:28.05 | Tekkub | I hate the emote |
| 10:28.05 | Rowne | Likewise. |
| 10:28.07 | Cair | I always *tickle* |
| 10:28.10 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/images/screenshots/WOW/wow_sshot67.jpg :D |
| 10:28.13 | Cair | ewww, I HATE that one |
| 10:28.18 | Rowne | I don't. |
| 10:28.22 | Cair | I don't mind /rude, but I HATE /spit |
| 10:28.23 | kergoth | yeah, that one does suck |
| 10:28.23 | Rowne | I turn them into treehuggers. |
| 10:28.28 | Tekkub | yea I put tha pic on Tsujigiri |
| 10:28.31 | Rowne | Dorfdude hugs a nearby tree. |
| 10:28.44 | Tekkub | their response... "NO HEARTHSTONE?!?!?!" |
| 10:28.44 | Rowne | I love Textfilter. |
| 10:28.51 | kergoth | Tekkub: heh |
| 10:29.02 | kergoth | shamans dont need hearthstones. 15 min cooldown astral recall |
| 10:29.11 | Rowne | I love that picture! |
| 10:29.11 | Tekkub | I know that's what I told em |
| 10:29.14 | kergoth | :) |
| 10:29.21 | Tekkub | but I still keep mine.. diff cooldowns |
| 10:29.21 | Rowne | It gave me visions of what it would be like if they were all friends. |
| 10:29.27 | Tekkub | I'm lazy in town at times |
| 10:29.38 | RasmusKL | I occasionally use my hearthstone on my shaman. |
| 10:29.43 | Rowne | "So ... where are you off to?", "I have this project which ... [15 minutes of technobabble.] ...", "... ... ... ... ... I see. Nice day for it?", "Aye." |
| 10:29.57 | kergoth | i could see it being useful, RasmusKL, if astral recall is on cooldown.. but i value that slot in my inventory more :) |
| 10:30.10 | Tekkub | rowne.. have you heard that one female gnome /flirt? |
| 10:30.11 | RasmusKL | Well, you have to make up for the 4 stupid totem items. |
| 10:30.16 | Tekkub | you'd like it |
| 10:30.22 | Rowne | Oh no. |
| 10:30.24 | Rowne | Why would I? |
| 10:30.41 | Tekkub | yea... it's long like the sneakey tauren /funny |
| 10:30.44 | RasmusKL | I often hearthstone from one part of Orgrimmar to the other though, so, I'm mostly just lazy. |
| 10:30.47 | Tekkub | er /silly |
| 10:31.05 | Tekkub | go roll a female gnome and /flirt a bit |
| 10:31.12 | Tekkub | you'll know the one I'm talking about |
| 10:31.28 | Rowne | Cair, just spotted the PM. In response, let me show you the cover of the HitchHiker's Guide ot the Galaxy. ;p |
| 10:31.29 | RasmusKL | Tekkub, don't distract Rowne from coding Timex :-) |
| 10:31.44 | Cair | Don't Panic |
| 10:31.53 | Rowne | Eeeexactly. |
| 10:31.58 | Rowne | I know you, I know you mean no harm. |
| 10:32.06 | Cair | meh, wasn't panic'ing, just apologizine |
| 10:32.13 | Cair | apologizing* |
| 10:32.16 | Cair | can't type |
| 10:32.23 | Rowne | You seem very panicky because you aren't sure what might hurt people. *Poke.* |
| 10:32.37 | Rowne | Don't worry, I know you never would intentionally. |
| 10:32.43 | Rowne | Anyway ... |
| 10:32.45 | Rowne | Now, Timex. |
| 10:32.48 | Industrial | ... |
| 10:32.48 | Rowne | Then I disappear. |
| 10:32.48 | Industrial | :p |
| 10:32.54 | Rowne | For my Guild is saying that "You should be here, not there!" |
| 10:33.09 | Tekkub | heh |
| 10:33.12 | Industrial | next game i buy will be US servers again >_> |
| 10:33.15 | Rowne | So I'll just make a big mess of the Timex code and let Rasmus deal with it. |
| 10:34.05 | Rowne | ... |
| 10:34.11 | Rowne | Damn you and your two-space tabbing, Rasmus! |
| 10:34.27 | Industrial | gg=G |
| 10:34.34 | Industrial | kergoth: :P |
| 10:34.36 | *** join/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 10:34.39 | Industrial | lo Tem |
| 10:34.50 | Tem | hey |
| 10:35.33 | Cair | hey Tem :) |
| 10:36.37 | Rowne | Whee, TimexBar:ChangeDuration is like ... four lines. |
| 10:37.05 | Rowne | Waitaminute ... oh, damn. |
| 10:37.13 | Rowne | I should be going by id, not by bar-number. :p |
| 10:37.48 | Rowne | Okay, so, eight lines, that way. |
| 10:38.03 | RasmusKL | Sorry Rowne :-P |
| 10:38.06 | RasmusKL | For the two tabbing. |
| 10:38.16 | Rowne | You evil, evil sod. ;p |
| 10:38.31 | Rowne | It keeps throwing me off and I wonder why my code is suddenly topsy-turvy land. |
| 10:38.35 | Rowne | But s'all good. |
| 10:38.51 | RasmusKL | :-P |
| 10:39.00 | RasmusKL | You need a challenge anyways. |
| 10:39.10 | Rowne | Challenges allow for mistakes. ;p |
| 10:39.14 | Rowne | And I haven't got time to test this. |
| 10:39.20 | RasmusKL | I'll test it, np. |
| 10:39.22 | Rowne | So ... dun-dun-duuuuun, you'll have to! |
| 10:39.39 | Rowne | The docs also need to be changed because like ... |
| 10:39.45 | Rowne | {id, tmr, tme, re}, new id and all. |
| 10:39.50 | Rowne | Anyway, zipping up. |
| 10:40.15 | RasmusKL | :-) |
| 10:42.24 | Rowne | http://mastaile.mine.nu/TheVeryPossiblyHorriblyBrokenAndSeverelyBorkedTimex.zip |
| 10:42.51 | Tekkub | nice filename |
| 10:43.47 | Rowne | It has the trepidation that it deserves. |
| 10:45.47 | RasmusKL | Thanks :-) |
| 10:46.01 | RasmusKL | We need to release a new Timex soon too though. |
| 10:48.13 | Rowne | Tomorrow. |
| 10:48.19 | Rowne | Let Tain read the docs first. |
| 10:48.22 | Rowne | I suck at documentation. |
| 10:48.34 | Tekkub | heh |
| 10:49.42 | Rowne | Well, until we meet again comrades, fellows andsoforth. |
| 10:49.58 | Cair | later Rowne |
| 10:50.06 | Rowne | And I'll see what I can do about getting a US transfer, Tekkub |
| 10:50.10 | Cair | night all, Imma go sleep before I completely lose my cool |
| 10:50.11 | Rowne | It'll take a lot of nagging at the guild. |
| 10:50.17 | Rowne | fortunately, I'm good at nagging without whining. |
| 10:50.22 | Rowne | Eep, night Cair. |
| 10:50.43 | *** part/##ace Rowne (n=Wuff@81-178-121-210.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 10:51.59 | RasmusKL | Mm, the song I'm listening to atm is called: The Gnome Effect - Teeny Tiny Trampled Tarantulas. |
| 10:52.02 | RasmusKL | Strange title :-) |
| 10:55.05 | Cair|sleep | btw, the danger of me losing my cool has nothing to do with this channel, just thought I'd mention that |
| 10:57.40 | Tekkub | the "Why dont more MOD'ers use ACE?" thread makes me a saaaaad panda |
| 10:58.03 | Tekkub | Saien had such potential, why did he have to turn out to be such a fuckwit? |
| 10:58.45 | Tekkub | Autobar was one of the first mods I ever used |
| 11:02.26 | Tem | is that thread still around? |
| 11:02.34 | Tem | I thought it went away a long time ago |
| 11:02.41 | Tekkub | nah someone bumped it |
| 11:02.44 | Tem | >< |
| 11:02.49 | Tekkub | the arguing is over tho :) |
| 11:03.04 | Tekkub | I hope my comment doesn't restart it, I wasn't intending to |
| 11:03.45 | Tem | good lord |
| 11:03.51 | Tem | I got tired of reading that thread |
| 11:03.58 | Tem | so I didn't notice it got to 6 pages |
| 11:04.06 | Tem | er, 9 pages |
| 11:04.25 | Tekkub | yea.. the "if (var)" vs "(if var ~= nil)" thing got me ignoring it |
| 11:13.43 | Tem | bed time for me |
| 11:24.48 | Tekkub | wewt! |
| 11:24.55 | Tekkub | new DrWho crap to watch! |
| 11:25.25 | Industrial | Tekkub: job? |
| 11:25.28 | Industrial | :P |
| 11:25.32 | Tekkub | hrm? |
| 11:26.04 | Industrial | Haven't got one? :P |
| 11:26.08 | Tekkub | no why? |
| 11:26.17 | Industrial | $$ |
| 11:26.22 | Tekkub | hunband |
| 11:26.26 | Tekkub | husband |
| 11:26.29 | Industrial | o thats chill |
| 11:26.35 | Tekkub | har |
| 11:26.41 | Tekkub | the new doctor is cute |
| 11:26.44 | Industrial | so u get to play wow and code alot? |
| 11:26.47 | Industrial | :o |
| 11:26.51 | Tekkub | oh gods... he's scottish! |
| 11:26.59 | Tekkub | code yes wow no |
| 11:27.04 | Industrial | lol why |
| 11:27.09 | Tekkub | I don't solo it bores the fuck out of me |
| 11:27.15 | Industrial | get a group? |
| 11:27.16 | Tekkub | and noone will duo with me |
| 11:27.21 | Industrial | or guild.. |
| 11:27.37 | Tekkub | still, noone will duo with me |
| 11:27.43 | Tekkub | I want a set partner |
| 11:27.54 | Tekkub | that's funnest for me, playing with a friend |
| 11:28.11 | Industrial | yep |
| 11:28.19 | Industrial | around level 15 soloing gets boring |
| 11:28.28 | Tekkub | exactly |
| 11:28.33 | Industrial | so i roll another char! |
| 11:28.34 | Industrial | :D |
| 11:28.39 | Tekkub | heh |
| 11:28.46 | Industrial | i have like 20 chars >_> |
| 11:28.47 | Tekkub | I get tired of rerolling, I want a 60 |
| 11:28.52 | Industrial | could have had a 60 |
| 11:28.53 | Industrial | :| |
| 11:29.04 | Tekkub | just cause I never hit cap in FFXI and thus missed all the plot |
| 11:29.23 | Tekkub | I'd like to do raids, i love instances |
| 11:30.41 | Tekkub | soon the hubby will have a new comp at work tho, it should be able to handle wow |
| 11:42.48 | Industrial | ;O |
| 11:57.25 | RasmusKL | I rerolled because I was tired of being a 60 :-) |
| 11:57.41 | Tekkub | heh |
| 11:57.45 | RasmusKL | Having seen Molten Core 20 some times, it's just not as exciting anymore. |
| 11:57.56 | Tekkub | I just want a 60, not that I'd play it exclusivly |
| 11:58.03 | Tekkub | but a weekly raid would be fun |
| 11:58.52 | RasmusKL | Just spend an hour or so reading the last 6 pages of the ACE thread.. yawn. |
| 11:59.36 | RasmusKL | I must admit I did skip some of the quote - stupid reply - quote - stupid reply - quote - stupid reply ... -> infinity posts. |
| 12:00.05 | Tekkub | hehe |
| 12:00.19 | Tekkub | forums need blacklist/ignro features |
| 12:00.44 | Tekkub | I'd like to ignore theards, replies, or posters selecivly |
| 12:01.03 | Tekkub | it'd make reading the blizz forums much nicer |
| 12:01.22 | Tekkub | "how I delay?" RFTFAQ /ignore tread |
| 12:01.32 | RasmusKL | Hehe |
| 12:01.59 | Tekkub | I'd likly use ignore poster rarely, but filtering out therads would be nice |
| 12:02.22 | Tekkub | it's like that sense of obsessive-compulsive spam cleaning an inbox |
| 12:02.35 | Tekkub | you get done and the few that are left are good infos |
| 12:03.13 | RasmusKL | Yeah. |
| 12:03.19 | RasmusKL | I don't read the forums really. |
| 12:03.28 | Tekkub | I do if I'm bored |
| 12:03.28 | RasmusKL | Too much junk there. |
| 12:03.36 | Tekkub | it's decreased since I hit IRC here :) |
| 12:03.50 | Tekkub | Ace forums sure, that's all gold |
| 12:03.57 | Tekkub | but WoW ones... meh |
| 12:04.18 | RasmusKL | Yeh. |
| 12:04.20 | Tekkub | it's got a 1:9999 signal to noise ratio |
| 12:04.50 | Tekkub | usually I only go there to make slouken do his job and fix shit |
| 12:05.37 | RasmusKL | I'm stuck on the EU forums. |
| 12:06.34 | RasmusKL | afk movie 1 sec |
| 12:07.19 | Tekkub | :) |
| 12:09.04 | Tekkub | hrm... stupid Visor question... |
| 12:09.15 | Industrial | ask |
| 12:09.16 | Industrial | :D |
| 12:09.43 | Tekkub | is it possible to set 2 relative points with visor? Like binding to the topleft and bottom right of worldframe? |
| 12:09.54 | Tekkub | it seems to only take one set, am I correct? |
| 12:10.41 | Industrial | no, you need obj:SetPoint() for that |
| 12:11.00 | Industrial | this could be builtin to visor.. hmm.. would be nice |
| 12:11.13 | Tekkub | thought so |
| 12:11.22 | Tekkub | I only have like three frames I need that for |
| 12:11.37 | Tekkub | 2 come 1.9 since slou's fixing the follow text frame |
| 12:11.39 | Tekkub | ^^ |
| 12:11.46 | Tekkub | I'll just do it scriptwise |
| 12:11.59 | Industrial | :) |
| 12:12.10 | Tekkub | well, I've already done it scriptwise, I'll just leave it |
| 12:12.26 | Tekkub | I'm converting my manual frame adjusts into visor, bit by bit |
| 12:20.02 | Tekkub | zeeg talks too much.... |
| 12:21.52 | Industrial | Tekkub: i am in doubt. |
| 12:22.06 | Industrial | Tekkub: 'then' or 'than', and in wich context? |
| 12:22.29 | Industrial | boo @ localistaion :( if only we had only 1 language |
| 12:22.56 | Industrial | and continued to develop it to make it better, ofcource. |
| 12:22.59 | Industrial | :) |
| 12:26.03 | Tekkub | uh |
| 12:26.09 | Tekkub | if, then |
| 12:26.19 | Tekkub | I am smaret THAN you |
| 12:26.31 | Tekkub | than = conparison |
| 12:26.39 | Tekkub | then = time |
| 12:27.01 | Tekkub | and yes, one language good |
| 12:27.02 | Industrial | but then i, ... time |
| 12:27.08 | Industrial | ah right |
| 12:27.11 | Industrial | i get it |
| 12:27.12 | Industrial | :> |
| 12:27.42 | Industrial | Tekkub: not saying one of the languages in the world today is better ofcource. |
| 12:27.52 | Tekkub | I think the world should be like WoW |
| 12:27.57 | Industrial | just, something thats efficient and has no quirks. |
| 12:27.58 | Tekkub | everyone speeks Common |
| 12:28.09 | Tekkub | some speak their own native tongue |
| 12:28.20 | Tekkub | and no, english ~= Common |
| 12:28.34 | Tekkub | thoght Common would likly be an evolution of english |
| 12:28.47 | Tekkub | make the language simpler and more consistant |
| 12:29.19 | Tekkub | we need to Ace engrish |
| 12:30.31 | Industrial | :p |
| 12:30.53 | Tekkub | seriously, I like the ide |
| 12:30.55 | Tekkub | a |
| 12:31.08 | Tekkub | a good portion of the world speaks english anyway |
| 12:31.19 | RasmusKL | curse's new BWL movie is quite nice. |
| 12:31.20 | Tekkub | fix the lang up and rename it Common |
| 12:31.25 | RasmusKL | one of the better WoW movies imo. |
| 12:32.14 | Industrial | url? :p |
| 12:32.16 | Tekkub | :) |
| 12:32.23 | RasmusKL | secs |
| 12:32.27 | Industrial | hmm i hate those big sites qith waiting queue's |
| 12:32.29 | Tekkub | I know their page |
| 12:32.30 | Industrial | most anoying thing ever |
| 12:32.42 | RasmusKL | it's 400mb though |
| 12:32.44 | Tekkub | I'm not much of a game movie person |
| 12:32.45 | Industrial | and you always miss the queue and it timeouts |
| 12:32.50 | Industrial | RasmusKL: im at work, dont care |
| 12:32.56 | Industrial | RasmusKL: they are newbs |
| 12:33.04 | Tekkub | unless I'm not playing anymore, I went and watched a bunch of FFXI bosses after I quit |
| 12:33.20 | Tekkub | I'm so sad I never even did Shadowlord |
| 12:34.16 | Tekkub | poor Raogrimm |
| 12:34.16 | Tekkub | poor sexy Raogrimm |
| 12:34.18 | RasmusKL | :-P |
| 12:34.23 | Tekkub | what? |
| 12:34.33 | Industrial | not an ff person |
| 12:34.37 | Tekkub | he's my Sephiroth, everyone needs one |
| 12:35.02 | Industrial | i need a relationship o_O |
| 12:35.09 | Tekkub | lol |
| 12:35.19 | Industrial | stuck without anyone for like.. 1.5 yrs? 2 yrs? |
| 12:35.22 | Industrial | but i have no time :> |
| 12:35.41 | Industrial | they can come to me, but it doesnt work like that |
| 12:35.42 | Tekkub | *shrug* |
| 12:35.49 | Tekkub | sure it does |
| 12:35.56 | Tekkub | my hubby moved to me |
| 12:36.11 | Tekkub | we just moved back to his home a few months ago |
| 12:36.22 | Tekkub | and it's not as great as he thought it would be |
| 12:36.49 | Tekkub | so I'll finish sch ool here and we'll prolly look for somewhere both us would like to live |
| 12:37.07 | Tekkub | damn tonight flew by |
| 12:37.15 | Tekkub | gotta go do some dishes bbiaf |
| 12:37.20 | Industrial | cya |
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| 19:21.40 | Tem | Oh noes! |
| 19:21.46 | Tain | OH yeses |
| 19:21.53 | Tem | myBindings may need an update for 1.9 |
| 19:21.58 | Tain | uh oh |
| 19:22.18 | Tem | I'll be one unhappy bitch if one of my favorites breaks and the dev is hiding... |
| 19:22.25 | Tain | haha |
| 19:22.28 | Tain | Yeah really. |
| 19:22.36 | Tain | What do you think might break it? |
| 19:22.52 | Tem | perchar bindings |
| 19:22.58 | Tain | Oh right of course. |
| 19:23.00 | Tem | I'm almost positive that would change the api just a little |
| 19:25.21 | Tain | Yeah. Well fire it up on test. |
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| 19:51.05 | Djanee | anyone here that has Administrator access at www.wowace.com forumns? |
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| 22:00.46 | Codayus | Yes, there are. |
| 22:00.54 | Codayus | I'mnot one of them though. :-) |
| 22:01.16 | Industrial | ? :O |
| 22:11.01 | cladhaire | Evening all |
| 22:14.44 | cladhaire | Tem: where in Ace is the Addon's class given the metamethod? |
| 22:14.44 | Tem | hey cladhaire |
| 22:14.53 | Tem | AceCore |
| 22:14.54 | cladhaire | Cause I'm going to need to add to the __index metatable |
| 22:14.56 | cladhaire | k |
| 22:14.56 | Tem | :new |
| 22:15.10 | Tem | oh? |
| 22:15.13 | Tem | what are you adding? |
| 22:15.16 | cladhaire | :Hook and :Unhook will need to be in the MT going to AceHook:Hook/Unhook |
| 22:15.24 | cladhaire | they're going to be entirely self-contained.. as they should be. |
| 22:15.25 | Tem | why? |
| 22:15.38 | cladhaire | To simplify everything, and get rid of the wrapper class for one. |
| 22:15.49 | Tem | ok |
| 22:15.54 | Tem | I trust you |
| 22:16.00 | cladhaire | Bishop:Hook should call AceHook.Hook(Bishop, unpack(arg)) |
| 22:16.10 | cladhaire | but we don't need to write that.. its an entire functino call AND gc from the unpack.. |
| 22:16.20 | cladhaire | it can be done easily in a metatable =) |
| 22:16.43 | cladhaire | I had to turn off the car radio today on the way home so i could talk to myseld. |
| 22:17.03 | cladhaire | seeing how bad SeaHooks was.. but how memory efficient it was is kiling me |
| 22:17.08 | cladhaire | 9 times slower.. but no GC |
| 22:17.18 | cladhaire | ours is 3 times slower.. with double the GV |
| 22:17.46 | MoonWolf | mhh, ill take speed over GC |
| 22:18.22 | cladhaire | i'll give you both |
| 22:18.23 | cladhaire | how about that =) |
| 22:18.31 | MoonWolf | ill take that. |
| 22:18.34 | Tain | I'll buy that for a dollar. |
| 22:18.37 | cladhaire | [you can't have GC when you hook something like OnUpdate. or events] |
| 22:18.57 | MoonWolf | you ARE no hooking onupdate, right right ? |
| 22:19.03 | cladhaire | uh? |
| 22:19.40 | MoonWolf | nevermind |
| 22:19.43 | MoonWolf | i should go to bed. |
| 22:19.43 | Tem | did you look at seahooks to maybe guess where we are using more gc? |
| 22:19.51 | cladhaire | yeah, i know where we're using it. |
| 22:19.58 | cladhaire | and i see why his is so damn slow |
| 22:19.59 | cladhaire | haha |
| 22:20.04 | Tem | haha |
| 22:20.06 | Tem | why? |
| 22:20.10 | cladhaire | but i dont think we want to enforce a 20 argument limit. |
| 22:20.24 | cladhaire | just horrible coding style.. overuse of for loops, other nonsense. |
| 22:20.27 | Tem | then go further |
| 22:20.37 | cladhaire | Tem: nope.. i'm still using unpack() |
| 22:20.50 | cladhaire | here's the deal with unpack.. it itself doesn't create GC trash |
| 22:21.01 | cladhaire | if arg already exists.. unpacking it is free. |
| 22:21.27 | cladhaire | and if you need to send it to a method, then the unpack becomes free (no GC free, still have efficiency loss, but its a C function) when it arrives |
| 22:21.51 | kergoth | creating the new ... table each time the function is called, and then no longer using it, results in gc |
| 22:22.04 | cladhaire | correct. |
| 22:22.05 | kergoth | i'm surprised lua wasnt smart enough to have a single table instance for each /function/, not each /call/ |
| 22:22.12 | kergoth | but i guess its moot with 5.1 |
| 22:22.23 | Tem | why? |
| 22:22.24 | cladhaire | since we're doing self.hooks.function(unpack(arg)) there's no GC trash.. because OUR function needed ... and the original functino ALSO needs ... |
| 22:22.27 | Tekkub | is WoW gonna use 5.1? |
| 22:22.51 | Tain | Slouken said not unless there's a really pressing need to. |
| 22:22.57 | Tain | Or something along those lines. |
| 22:23.03 | cladhaire | SeaHooks is so damn inefficient cause they use a single table for argument storage.. and iterate through that. They basically unpack using an LUA functino instead of the C implementaton. |
| 22:23.06 | cladhaire | hence the 9x speel |
| 22:23.11 | cladhaire | -l +d |
| 22:23.56 | Tem | kergoth: why is that moot in 5.1? |
| 22:25.23 | kergoth | Tem: because the 'arg' table is dead. they reworked how '...' is handled |
| 22:25.28 | Tem | oh> |
| 22:25.29 | Tem | ? |
| 22:25.31 | Tem | how? |
| 22:25.34 | cladhaire | how ? |
| 22:25.36 | kergoth | you can do: function foo(...) local a,b = ... end |
| 22:25.37 | cladhaire | what did they do |
| 22:25.44 | cladhaire | oh wow |
| 22:25.44 | cladhaire | nice |
| 22:25.45 | kergoth | or function foo(...) local bar = {...} end |
| 22:25.47 | MoonWolf | no more arg table ? |
| 22:25.59 | kergoth | or function foo(...) local a,b = select(2, ...) -- skip argument one end |
| 22:26.11 | kergoth | MoonWolf: you can choose to create a table for it if you want |
| 22:26.11 | Tem | that's awesome! |
| 22:26.12 | kergoth | but you dont have to |
| 22:26.17 | MoonWolf | okay, cool |
| 22:26.19 | kergoth | checkt his |
| 22:26.20 | cladhaire | I'm also getting rid of the type() calls. |
| 22:26.26 | cladhaire | using getglobal() instead |
| 22:26.39 | Tem | abuuh? |
| 22:26.48 | kergoth | for i=1,select('#', ...) do local i=select(i, ...) print(i) end |
| 22:26.51 | cladhaire | type() creates a reasonable amount of garbage believe it or not. |
| 22:26.54 | kergoth | is iteration over the arguments in 5.1 |
| 22:26.58 | kergoth | without a table |
| 22:27.22 | Tem | now that's cool |
| 22:27.49 | Tem | they should write an iterator for it |
| 22:28.06 | kergoth | in 5.1, '...' is a statement that when used, gives you semi-direct access to the elements on the stack |
| 22:28.06 | MoonWolf | nice |
| 22:28.17 | kergoth | no overhead, no gc whatsoever |
| 22:28.19 | MoonWolf | semi ? |
| 22:28.20 | Tem | so that the generic for could do: for v in ... do ... end |
| 22:28.34 | kergoth | ... isnt an object |
| 22:28.38 | kergoth | it cant have metamethods |
| 22:28.46 | kergoth | its a statement |
| 22:28.53 | Tem | does 5.1 add a pairs metamethod? |
| 22:28.56 | kergoth | nope |
| 22:29.04 | Tem | then it's a moot point anyway |
| 22:29.05 | kergoth | rici has a patch, but i dont think its been accepted |
| 22:31.29 | cladhaire | if I need to know whether an argument is a string, or an object.. i can getglobal() it, and I either get nil (it was an object, or not there) or i get the object |
| 22:32.27 | Tem | I don't think that's an accurate check |
| 22:32.50 | kergoth | i could break that. getfenv(0)[object] = true ;) |
| 22:33.03 | kergoth | course i doubt thatll happen, but.. :) |
| 22:33.48 | cladhaire | Tem: I have to play with it. |
| 22:34.27 | MoonWolf | So, cladhaire, ETA on the hook patch ? |
| 22:34.46 | cladhaire | few days hopefully |
| 22:34.53 | cladhaire | it wont just be a patch |
| 22:34.58 | cladhaire | it will require some updated in the acecore |
| 22:35.10 | cladhaire | its a signifigant change =/ |
| 22:35.20 | MoonWolf | api changes or not ? |
| 22:35.25 | cladhaire | no |
| 22:35.30 | MoonWolf | good. |
| 22:35.33 | cladhaire | CallHook will be depreated tho |
| 22:35.33 | Tem | no api changes, just better behavior |
| 22:35.46 | Tem | deprecated |
| 22:35.50 | cladhaire | yeah |
| 22:35.51 | cladhaire | that too |
| 22:35.52 | cladhaire | i'm in bg |
| 22:35.53 | cladhaire | typing bad |
| 22:36.04 | MoonWolf | no matter, my current addon uses manual hooks. |
| 22:36.32 | MoonWolf | because i kinda lifted the hooks straight out of an other addon without understanding them well. |
| 22:36.58 | cladhaire | so my guild broke up today |
| 22:37.00 | cladhaire | apparently |
| 22:37.08 | MoonWolf | :( |
| 22:37.18 | MoonWolf | your not sure ? |
| 22:37.30 | cladhaire | brb |
| 22:38.36 | cladhaire | yeah i logged in and .. well.. i was the only one left (online in the guild.. and this guy swas like "Want an invite?" |
| 22:39.13 | MoonWolf | weird |
| 22:39.15 | MoonWolf | anyway |
| 22:39.21 | MoonWolf | bed time for me. |
| 22:40.12 | Cair | bummer cladhaire ;( |
| 22:41.40 | cladhaire | *shrug* i didnt know the peopel anyway |
| 22:41.43 | cladhaire | it was a new server |
| 22:41.54 | cladhaire | i'm a leet drood tho.. someone will pick me up |
| 22:42.37 | Cair | heh |
| 22:42.47 | Cair | but what about satrina et al? |
| 22:42.53 | cladhaire | oh thats my other server |
| 22:42.56 | cladhaire | that's all happy =) |
| 22:42.57 | Cair | ooooh, okay |
| 22:43.00 | cladhaire | trying Rag tonight |
| 22:43.02 | Cair | I thought you were meaning them |
| 22:43.28 | Cair | and was surprised that you seemed to be taking it so well |
| 22:45.04 | cladhaire | heheh |
| 22:45.05 | cladhaire | *shrug* |
| 23:31.20 | *** join/##ace BO|Razag (n=nierud@port-212-202-77-27.dynamic.qsc.de) |
