| 02:32.57 | Tain | ~today |
| 02:32.59 | purl | [monday] when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix |
| 02:34.07 | kergoth | :(( |
| 02:34.08 | kergoth | monday |
| 02:34.29 | kergoth | this article is interesting |
| 02:41.29 | *** join/##ace cladhaire (n=Cladhair@cpe-24-59-51-225.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 02:42.33 | cladhaire | So Tem.. I thought about you for 2 seconds in a dream last night. |
| 02:42.39 | cladhaire | (good evening everyone btw) |
| 02:43.18 | cladhaire | I dreamt that you posted in the forums that you had implemented "Nibbles" as a WoW addon |
| 02:43.30 | cladhaire | and in my dream.. i laughed... thats all I remember |
| 02:43.54 | Tain | heh |
| 02:44.28 | Tain | And here I dreamed I went to bed with two young women. But nothing good happened. :( |
| 02:44.42 | cladhaire | Well I had other "good" parts of my dream.. but that was it for Tem and WoW :P |
| 02:45.03 | Tain | I did dream that I went horseback riding in a beautiful meadow. |
| 02:45.07 | cladhaire | if my dreams of people in WoW/Ace/Lua-land were more extensive than that.. I'd probably shoot myself. |
| 02:45.23 | Tain | I spent a few minutes just looking out at the landscape and being awed. |
| 02:45.26 | Tain | Very strange! |
| 02:45.52 | cladhaire | Those are the best.. misshapen thoughts aren't nearly as enjoyable for me. THere's something about coherent dreams that is relaxing |
| 02:46.24 | Tain | I very rarely have dreams like that that I remember, so when I do I make it a point to remember as best as I can. |
| 02:47.03 | kergoth | http://www.webcom.com/haahr/dylan/linearization-oopsla96.html#characteristics |
| 02:47.03 | kergoth | hem |
| 02:47.03 | kergoth | er |
| 02:47.04 | kergoth | ehm |
| 02:47.06 | kergoth | is |
| 02:47.08 | kergoth | wowace.com down? |
| 02:47.10 | kergoth | damn enter key |
| 02:47.10 | Tain | I also dreamt I was trying to get away from an ex-girlfriend on a subway system. :) |
| 02:47.37 | Tain | Yeah, blame the enter key. |
| 02:47.58 | kergoth | damnit damnit damnit damnit damnit |
| 02:48.00 | kergoth | fuck you comcast, fuck you with a big rubber dick |
| 02:48.02 | kergoth | </rant> |
| 02:48.48 | Tain | I concur. |
| 02:49.09 | cladhaire | Kergoth... did anyone take a look at the memory issues with Ace addons versus non-ace addons.. I haven |
| 02:49.15 | cladhaire | err haven't been able to get to the forums toda |
| 02:49.18 | kergoth | havent had the time or motivation |
| 02:49.25 | kergoth | been working on other things :\ |
| 02:49.26 | kergoth | and not. |
| 02:49.35 | Tain | Plenty of time. Zero motivation. |
| 02:49.51 | cladhaire | heheh.. i agree.. i didnt' expect you to do it.. just didn't know if you had seen |
| 02:50.38 | kergoth | well.. i was planning on it.. |
| 02:50.59 | kergoth | i've done a lot of work with the memory usage of addons, at least wrt the in memory lua data |
| 02:51.03 | cladhaire | k k.. i tried to take a look at it this weekend.. but iw as too ill to get anything accomplished. |
| 02:51.36 | Tain | AllI know is I did something to my MailCollect addon that's been causing an AceDB stack overflow. :) |
| 02:51.52 | kergoth | used my traversal code to dump a relatively on the fly list of the worst offenders, sorted, of the memory usage in the game attributed to data |
| 02:51.54 | kergoth | fun stuff |
| 02:51.56 | kergoth | Tain: haha |
| 02:52.08 | cladhaire | Ive had a few times today where I'll get a steady 60KB/s increase in memory usage.. when i'm running at 3KB/s during typical gameplay.. its been bizarre |
| 02:52.33 | kergoth | cladhaire: tried using traceevent to locate the functions causing it? |
| 02:52.53 | cladhaire | i can't reproduce it. that's the issue |
| 02:53.41 | Starfury | hmm that needlylist addon looks cool but it has errors when i login and doesn't work :\ |
| 02:53.51 | Starfury | *needylist |
| 02:55.26 | cladhaire | Anyone have any idea what the current story with visor is? |
| 02:56.41 | Tain | Well, the version I'm using works for the most part. heh |
| 02:57.22 | Tain | There's really no way of knowing how much Rowne is going to spend on it, he seems to be a little bit on a downswing with WoW. |
| 02:57.46 | cladhaire | I have HEAD checked out of svn... and i can't even set frames, which was bizarre.. so I've fallen back to 23e.. but width and a few other signifigant functions lacking |
| 02:58.13 | kergoth | well, with it in svn, it should be much easier for multiple devs to collaborate. we can easily distribute the load |
| 02:58.24 | cladhaire | I just have some changes I want to make to my UI.. but DAB adds 15Kb/s .. which is unacceptable for me... and flexbar is flexbar =P |
| 02:58.28 | Tain | I'm trying to remember where it was left. I was testing with Rowne a couple days ago with the selecting frames issue. |
| 02:58.35 | Tain | Things started working. |
| 02:58.44 | cladhaire | Yeah.. i was going to try to take a look at it this week.. but my hands are full with WatchDog and AceHealStats atm =( |
| 02:58.45 | Tain | But oh that's right he wasn't using svn doing that. |
| 02:59.16 | cladhaire | hehehe |
| 02:59.25 | cladhaire | it has such potential :P |
| 02:59.28 | Tain | Yeah, I have to say I really like WatchDog but it's lost my savedvars for it three times in the week I was trying to use it. :( |
| 02:59.31 | kergoth | someone should grab his latest test zip and commit the fucking thing |
| 02:59.48 | kergoth | so we can keep working on it |
| 02:59.51 | Tain | I have it. Or, I have the latest I was testing with him. |
| 02:59.55 | cladhaire | really Tain? |
| 02:59.57 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:00.01 | cladhaire | I havent' heard of anything like that.. |
| 03:00.32 | Tain | It really did, cladhaire. Now I won't say it can't be something else on my system that's caused it. |
| 03:00.33 | cladhaire | I know I have some issues with the pet bars.. and I'm rewriting the variables/etc.. things will be customizable per frame.. like they should be. |
| 03:00.45 | cladhaire | Wiped all your savedvars.. or just WatchDog's? |
| 03:00.46 | Tain | But it only reset the WatchDog vars. |
| 03:00.50 | cladhaire | hrm |
| 03:00.53 | cladhaire | interesting. |
| 03:00.54 | Tain | And it made me sad. :( |
| 03:01.24 | cladhaire | may be an issue with ##SavedVariablesPerCharacter |
| 03:01.28 | cladhaire | which I won't be using in the next versino. |
| 03:01.31 | Tain | I actually spent the first night I installed it, probaly two hours figuring out everything I wanted to set as my display. |
| 03:01.42 | Tain | but after that at least I knew. |
| 03:01.55 | cladhaire | =( I'm sorry.. that makes me sad. |
| 03:02.02 | cladhaire | I'll bust ass this week just for ou :P |
| 03:02.05 | Tain | Oh but there was one thing I wanted as a feature suggestion. hmm... what was it... |
| 03:02.29 | Starfury | anyone use aceheal? |
| 03:02.33 | Tain | Hey I had someone tell me my Mailcollect addon deleted a bunch of his auction winnings in his inbox. |
| 03:02.41 | Starfury | i set up keybindings but does it not work on yourself? |
| 03:02.48 | Tain | I still don't think it really did, but I still feel guilty about it. |
| 03:03.04 | cladhaire | hehe |
| 03:04.01 | Tain | Of course I've also been hacking away at AcePerl all weekend too, modifiying it to what I want. |
| 03:04.06 | cladhaire | cmon.. whats your feature :P i wanna get it on the wiki so I can get it all set |
| 03:04.15 | *** part/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 03:04.22 | Tain | It was something to do with Rogue energy. |
| 03:04.43 | cladhaire | hrm.. i'd love to hear it (i play a rogue) :P |
| 03:04.56 | Tain | Forgive me but it was a couple of weeks ago, and it is entirely possible that I simply missed an option. |
| 03:05.08 | Starfury | i just dont get how you're supposed to use aceheal, i setup shift and left button to do heal but it does nothing when i click on my player frame, does it only work on other people? |
| 03:05.19 | cladhaire | its okay.. if you think of it let me know :P |
| 03:05.22 | Tain | Can you display your own Rogue energy as both a percentage and actual numbers (x/100) at the same time? |
| 03:06.06 | Tain | Actually I bet it was the numbers that I was missing. |
| 03:06.20 | Tain | That's what I usually watch, no the percentage. |
| 03:06.40 | *** join/##ace kergoth (n=kergoth@mail.astrocorp.com) |
| 03:07.51 | *** join/##ace kergoth_ (n=kergoth@c-24-118-219-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 03:08.08 | cladhaire | Haha |
| 03:08.12 | cladhaire | you were missing the percentage? |
| 03:08.20 | cladhaire | cause the percentage is the same as the numbers =) |
| 03:08.29 | cladhaire | unless you have nightslayer or vigor |
| 03:09.11 | Tain | heh yeah no I'm sure it was something I can't remember now. |
| 03:09.17 | Starfury | i guess aceheal doesn't work with nymbia's perl |
| 03:09.35 | cladhaire | *shrug* well lemme know if you run into it. fixing the saved variables is HUGE on my list right now.. |
| 03:09.43 | kergoth_ | anyone want to see my first and simplest multiple inheritence implementation in lua? |
| 03:09.48 | kergoth_ | :) |
| 03:10.31 | Tain | Simple? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. |
| 03:10.37 | kergoth_ | haha |
| 03:11.48 | cladhaire | you and the word simple don't exactly agree =). |
| 03:11.49 | cladhaire | but yes. |
| 03:11.55 | cladhaire | i would love to see it :P |
| 03:12.08 | kergoth_ | hey now, i'm willing to explain it :P |
| 03:12.33 | cladhaire | thats what makes it simple =) |
| 03:15.12 | cladhaire | ** Random Question #42 ** Anyone know of/use/have a reasonably working web-based irc client? I need to find some way around my works shitty proxy |
| 03:16.11 | kergoth_ | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo |
| 03:16.25 | Tain | haha I spent a long time trying to answer that very question, cladhaire. |
| 03:16.59 | cladhaire | There is one.. CGI:IRC.. but it never successfully connects =( |
| 03:17.41 | Tain | Basically I didn't find any "generic" ones that simply worked. There are a lot of different ones out there, but most of them still connect to the normal IRC server address which will be blocked by the proxy. |
| 03:18.15 | cladhaire | aye.. yes something else I need to write.. I would kill to have ##ace at work.. my job is so freaking horrily boring and mind-sapping.. =( |
| 03:18.20 | kergoth_ | :( |
| 03:18.30 | kergoth_ | look at Foo! ask questions! |
| 03:18.30 | kergoth_ | :P |
| 03:18.36 | cladhaire | I'm looking now :P |
| 03:18.37 | Tain | You basically have to have a webserver running on a server that will do that port connect for you and pass it all back to your webclient, or an irc server that supports connects to port 80 which a few do. |
| 03:19.30 | kergoth_ | basically whenever you call a class, it returns a new class with that class as one of its superclasses. simple enough. however, you can also specify additional superclasses as arguments to the call. |
| 03:19.47 | kergoth_ | when you have more than one, it just tries them in order until it finds what you're looking for |
| 03:19.52 | cladhaire | yeah it makes complete sense.. its a very succinct example |
| 03:20.04 | kergoth_ | :) |
| 03:20.06 | Tain | Hold on kergoth, I'm going to have another sip of Cap'n Morgan and see if I grasp it better. |
| 03:20.13 | kergoth_ | however, its really inefficient.. |
| 03:20.15 | kergoth_ | consider: |
| 03:20.19 | kergoth_ | a = class() |
| 03:20.21 | kergoth_ | b = a() |
| 03:20.23 | kergoth_ | c = b() |
| 03:20.26 | kergoth_ | d = class() |
| 03:20.31 | kergoth_ | e = class(a,b,c,d) |
| 03:20.55 | kergoth_ | when you index e, itll end up working its way back down to a when it indexes b and c, as well as trying a directly |
| 03:21.14 | kergoth_ | so we try to index the same classes multiple times. |
| 03:21.25 | cladhaire | its all just metatable marching.. which you may be able to get away with.. but with no discretion between the same classes. |
| 03:21.29 | kergoth_ | which is rather silly.. works though |
| 03:21.59 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: right, there's no weighting between them. it isnt smart enough to weight your more specific classes over the more generic |
| 03:22.05 | kergoth_ | as well as the problem i just mentioned |
| 03:22.22 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 03:22.27 | kergoth_ | so.. i'm reading articles about other languages implement it |
| 03:22.35 | kergoth_ | thanks to rici's direction, as usual |
| 03:23.22 | kergoth_ | anyway, for simple cases this one would work fine. might be worth doing as an enhancement to AceCore's new() method |
| 03:24.15 | kergoth_ | i actually ran into a case that needed it, in my pushenv/popenv stuff (which, you should check out if you havent already) |
| 03:24.22 | cladhaire | I need to dig deeper into the way Ace is implemented so I can keep up with you.. The generic concepts make compelte sense to me (I did tons in semantics for my degrees) |
| 03:24.46 | kergoth_ | most of what i'm playing with is generic lua stuff more than ace specific stuff, but understanding the latter helps |
| 03:24.46 | cladhaire | But when the conversation goes to ace I can only go off of how my addons are implemented. |
| 03:24.50 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 03:24.56 | kergoth_ | i have no degree, no formal training, so i'm sorta figuring some of this shit out as i go |
| 03:25.03 | cladhaire | The application as they apply to ace make the conversation more interesting. |
| 03:25.11 | kergoth_ | a lot of algos and data structures just arent things you run into learning only from work experience. limiting. |
| 03:25.22 | cladhaire | Ahh.. I did a lot of work on lambda calculus and languages like lisp, scheme, etc. |
| 03:25.36 | cladhaire | classes in lisp/scheme are a good time.. very similar to lua.. but completely different at the same time. |
| 03:25.51 | kergoth_ | ahh yeah, thats /all/ over my head. i need to read SAICP at a minimum |
| 03:26.00 | Tain | Formal training is for monkeys. |
| 03:26.13 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: tain just called you a monkey. |
| 03:26.16 | *** join/##ace DvdKhl (i=UDontWan@p508A5063.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:26.16 | cladhaire | yep |
| 03:26.19 | kergoth_ | quick, throw poo at him |
| 03:26.23 | cladhaire | formal training is just a nother tool in my toolbox :P |
| 03:26.28 | Tain | Actually, I have a lot of respect for lisp. |
| 03:26.29 | cladhaire | ./punt |
| 03:26.34 | Tain | It's crazy, crazy shit. |
| 03:26.36 | kergoth_ | yeah, thats how i think of it. i can get the job done without it |
| 03:26.42 | kergoth_ | but i lack a lot of the tools on my toolbelt thatd make it easier |
| 03:26.49 | Tain | I don't see why we couldnt' all stick with LOGO. |
| 03:26.54 | kergoth_ | hehe |
| 03:27.02 | cladhaire | Check out TnT .. its a full-features AOL instant messenger client in eLisp (runs in Emacs).. that was my pet project for a long time. |
| 03:27.08 | cladhaire | brb.. letting my dog oug |
| 03:27.10 | Tain | hahah I used to run tnt |
| 03:27.21 | Tain | In fact tnt was my main aim client for a long, long time. |
| 03:27.27 | kergoth_ | bah, down with emacs! vim for the win! |
| 03:27.29 | kergoth_ | ;) |
| 03:27.31 | kergoth_ | actually |
| 03:27.41 | kergoth_ | we were talking about how annoying vim's configuration language is, in #lua the other day |
| 03:27.45 | kergoth_ | i was thinking itd be fun to switch it to lua. |
| 03:27.47 | kergoth_ | :D |
| 03:28.38 | Tain | I never did quite get the full grasp of what I was trying to change in the WoW frame method metatables the other day, but it also occured to me that it wouldn't have been enough. |
| 03:28.59 | cladhaire | back |
| 03:29.11 | cladhaire | lol good to know someone uses Tnt.. it was the weirdest project to pick up :P |
| 03:29.20 | Tain | I seriously did! For a long time. |
| 03:29.41 | Tain | I used it on the only shell I had which was SunOS 4.5 (I think). |
| 03:29.48 | kergoth_ | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo2 , from the nifty lua tricks department |
| 03:29.49 | Tain | Just try getting anything to compile there. |
| 03:29.57 | cladhaire | lol well thats fun.. Emacs is HUGE.. but I can move so fast in it.. and when I was at school.. it helped me get stuff done.. .with IM :P |
| 03:29.59 | Tain | So TNT was a godsend. |
| 03:30.32 | cladhaire | I like vi.. and can use it.. which is important.. but unlike most Vi fanbois.. I'll use the full features of emacs when/where its available :P |
| 03:31.15 | Tain | There was a funny comic I remember seeing someone had printed out on their desk at work. |
| 03:31.25 | kergoth_ | a lot of those who dislike vi don't understandt he differences between vi and vim. vim is vi with better ease of use and power and flexibility. |
| 03:31.26 | cladhaire | Kergoth tcons just gives us a table with a properly constructed MT for indexing nil variables? |
| 03:31.38 | Tain | It was a single frame with a guy and a small boy running from a bunch of people with torches anf pitchforks. |
| 03:31.51 | Tain | And the boy was saying, "I don't understand, why are we running dad?" |
| 03:32.05 | Tain | And the father says, "We use vi and they use emacs, son." |
| 03:32.09 | cladhaire | hahaha |
| 03:32.58 | Tain | It really is like another comic I absolutely loved, in the mid 80s. |
| 03:33.13 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: nah, even simpler than that. it just takes "a.b.c.d" and creates the a, b, c, and d tables. currently it doesnt even set d's __index pointing at c, etc. it could, quite easily.. depends on the use case. there is an argument to those functions to specify what to call as the table constructor for intermediate tables, which would probably be sufficient to implement that. |
| 03:33.17 | Tain | A single panel, a guy and a girl sitting in front of a marriage counsellor. |
| 03:33.33 | Tain | The marriage counesllor askes why they want a divorce. |
| 03:33.49 | kergoth_ | i.e. AceCore:tcons("a.b.c.d", function(parent) return setmetatable({}, {__index = parent}) end) |
| 03:33.51 | Tain | the man is wearing a Boston Celtics shirt, the woman is wearing a LA Lakers shirt. |
| 03:33.53 | kergoth_ | would probably do what you're thinking |
| 03:33.57 | Tain | They say, "Religious differences." |
| 03:34.44 | kergoth_ | but its pushenv and popenv that are more interesting, using the fact that environments are just tables... |
| 03:34.49 | cladhaire | kergoth: interesting.. i'll have to play with that. |
| 03:35.36 | Tain | I can't help but think sometimes while trying to comprehend the ways that Lua works, "There is no spoon." |
| 03:35.49 | cladhaire | haha |
| 03:35.51 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: the main purpose behind what i checked in there is to facilitate what the example describes. putting that at the top of all your .lua's ensures that your addon object is created, regardless of which .lua creates it, so that you're free to define your constants before the rest of your code, but still inside your addon's object. |
| 03:35.54 | kergoth_ | haha |
| 03:36.57 | cladhaire | I'm quite a fan of LUA. but then again I look for very specific things in my languages, and it provides exactly what I'm looking for. |
| 03:37.01 | Tain | The biggest problem I have though is that understanding Lua isn't enough, there's so much in the XML files as well. |
| 03:37.27 | kergoth_ | i like a lot of things about lua. its simple, small, and flexible. it provides the basic mechanisms, and lets you do with them what you will. i respect that |
| 03:37.32 | cladhaire | I'm part of the ace crowd that doesn't like the typical OO solutions to many problems.. I'm too UNIX oriented .. and always think like it. |
| 03:37.35 | kergoth_ | plus, functions are first class objects, which is always good |
| 03:37.36 | cladhaire | It does what it does very well |
| 03:37.49 | cladhaire | Whereas python drives me up the wall |
| 03:37.51 | kergoth_ | and it has coroutines.. tail calls (unlike python..), etc |
| 03:39.07 | Tain | But I'm wholly contained in Blizzard's implementation of Lua for WoW. |
| 03:40.08 | Tain | Which can be different than the thins that Lua really offers. |
| 03:40.14 | cladhaire | The amount that they chose to break out into XML throws me off at times.. but it just adds to the seperation of design and functino |
| 03:40.17 | kergoth_ | if anyone is interested in a collection of some of the neatest little bits of lua code around, check out https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/browser/trunk/stdlib/modules/ |
| 03:40.34 | kergoth_ | its a community effort to create a set of 'standard libraries' of lua code |
| 03:41.18 | cladhaire | wow..nice. |
| 03:41.23 | Tain | It's just that there's sometimes a disconnect between what frames you can do things with in Lua, and what you can only do in xml. |
| 03:41.37 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: check out math.log in https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/file/trunk/stdlib/modules/std.math.lua |
| 03:41.46 | kergoth_ | its cute :) |
| 03:41.54 | kergoth_ | Tain: yeah, thats pretty annoying :\ |
| 03:42.10 | cladhaire | kergoth: hahah I love it =) |
| 03:42.51 | kergoth_ | memoize does what you'd think it does.. acts like a cache. calls the function to get the value, then stores it locally in the table it creates so that subsequent calls dont need to |
| 03:43.06 | cladhaire | i love memoize like nothing else. |
| 03:43.13 | cladhaire | its all over my non-wow lua :P |
| 03:43.25 | Tain | I get so annoyed looking through the xml. |
| 03:43.34 | cladhaire | i actually wrote some wow code that used memoize.. and had to go back and get rid of it.. and make the cache manually |
| 03:43.51 | cladhaire | Tain: If your templates are set up correctly the XML gets REALLLY neat |
| 03:44.13 | kergoth_ | my combat log parsing madness uses a memoize to cache the translated forms of the globals :) |
| 03:44.14 | Tain | It's not my templates I'm worried about. :) |
| 03:44.21 | Tain | It's the Blizzard ones. |
| 03:44.25 | kergoth_ | hey, i wonder.. |
| 03:44.29 | cladhaire | I wrote a small add-on that takes the experience bar, and attaches it to the TitanPanel as a background statusbar.. and my code is so much prettier than blizzards |
| 03:44.34 | kergoth_ | if aceutil can handle a functable instead of just a function |
| 03:44.39 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: nice |
| 03:44.57 | cladhaire | kergoth: Do we have memoize in wowLua... i honestly didn't check (cause I dont have access at work) |
| 03:45.40 | kergoth_ | blizzard doesnt provide one. nor does lua itself, naturally. ace doesnt have one either. |
| 03:45.49 | Tain | The issue I have is "replacing" frames but still allowing other addons to do what they think it should be doing. |
| 03:46.08 | kergoth_ | Tain: yeah, compatibility can be a real pain in the ass. |
| 03:46.36 | cladhaire | Aye.. they didn't think far enough ahead to see that we'd be doing that |
| 03:46.36 | Tain | It's easy to addon to a frame. But as soon as you try to replace a default frame with something else you have problems. |
| 03:46.49 | Tain | Like we saw with Visor and Chatscroll, for one example. |
| 03:46.49 | cladhaire | *nod* |
| 03:47.11 | cladhaire | my editbox is foobar'd without Visor.. and i can't figure out why for the life of me. |
| 03:48.25 | cladhaire | Kergoth: Your function docs in the stdlib.. is that just convention for the lua code.. or is that for some javadoc type of doc creation? |
| 03:48.48 | Tain | I can't figure out how to do things that I think *should* be simple. But they aren't because you can't "hook" the xml files to put your own implementation in and let other addons do their thing as well. |
| 03:49.26 | cladhaire | Thats when you put a plea out to the community and I waste a day and ahalf of work time figuring it out.. lol |
| 03:49.47 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: its for api doc generation like javadoc or qt or whatever, yeah. its called luadoc. if you look in util in stdlib, theres a simple version there, though theres a fancier implementation thats a project on luaforge. |
| 03:50.13 | cladhaire | Nice.. I haven't looked atht the implementation much.. so I hadn't seen that before. |
| 03:50.27 | cladhaire | Do you have experience in Haskell Kergoth? |
| 03:50.31 | kergoth_ | it makes it a lot easier to use short vars like rowne does, if you actually document what they are :P |
| 03:50.39 | kergoth_ | fraid not |
| 03:50.58 | cladhaire | I see lots of haskell concepts in lua and the way things get implemented |
| 03:51.33 | kergoth_ | you should join #lua |
| 03:51.38 | Tain | rowne's vars actually make sense. Well, if they were documented they'd make sense. But I started understanding them more and more. |
| 03:51.40 | kergoth_ | the gurus are there |
| 03:51.52 | kergoth_ | and the actual lua devs drop by on occasion to announce betas of lua 5.1 and stuff. |
| 03:51.58 | kergoth_ | Tain: *nods* |
| 03:52.30 | cladhaire | yeah I've been in there on occasion.. but my brain can't open that wide tonight =) |
| 03:52.39 | kergoth_ | hehe |
| 03:52.44 | kergoth_ | i learn so much via osmosis, i swear |
| 03:52.58 | Tain | But seeing how he was doing it it occured to me that you could just make your command options table indexed by the commands themselves. |
| 03:53.31 | kergoth_ | Tain: yeah, i've done that before. really helps, especially if you're doing any sort of dynamic generation of your commands |
| 03:54.31 | Tain | I first undertood it when I was looking for some way to replace the lack of a Case command. |
| 03:54.39 | kergoth_ | ahh :) |
| 03:54.56 | kergoth_ | tables work superbly for that |
| 03:55.24 | Tain | Yeah, it's just different ways to implement things. |
| 03:55.31 | kergoth_ | might be fun to play with versions of a select(), ones that can do fuzzy matching, or partial matching |
| 03:55.57 | Tain | Actually that's the thing about Lua, it just has some different ways to do some things that work very well if you know them. |
| 03:57.15 | Tain | Now if only Lua could refill my drink for me. |
| 03:57.44 | kergoth_ | well... get your fridge running linux, and install a chute system like banks do for their tubes at the drive through, and.. |
| 03:57.45 | kergoth_ | ;) |
| 03:58.17 | kergoth_ | *pushes beer button* *whoosh* |
| 03:58.42 | kergoth_ | Tain: did you see that drink mixing vending machine some college students did? |
| 03:58.55 | kergoth_ | it had a variety of alcoholic beverages and it could mix you a fucking long island, i swear |
| 04:00.59 | kergoth_ | cladhaire: i showed rici some of the stuff in https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/file/trunk/stdlib/modules/std.base.lua and he made it clear that some of it mustve been direct translation of haskell stuff, that doesnt necessarily work as well in lua. |
| 04:01.15 | kergoth_ | like 'curry' |
| 04:02.04 | kergoth_ | oh, and the list.map implementation in there |
| 04:02.24 | kergoth_ | doesnt make much sense in a language that isnt lazy.. it just does a for k,v in ipairs() anyway. immediate. |
| 04:03.35 | cladhaire | back.. sorry about that guys |
| 04:03.40 | kergoth_ | ehm, need more caffeine |
| 04:04.57 | cladhaire | i love std.base.pickle :P |
| 04:05.13 | cladhaire | these are your implementations, or the communities? |
| 04:05.21 | kergoth_ | community |
| 04:05.39 | kergoth_ | i only added the memoize, the math.log extension, and the .. what was the other thing.. |
| 04:05.56 | kergoth_ | oh, the version of the si prefix function for the binary prefixes |
| 04:06.02 | cladhaire | k k.. cause it would be odd if you churned out haskell translations never having used the language :P |
| 04:06.12 | kergoth_ | so you can string.numbertobinarysi(1024 * 1024) -> 1Mi |
| 04:06.19 | kergoth_ | hehe |
| 04:06.21 | kergoth_ | indeed |
| 04:06.37 | kergoth_ | haw, that pickle is awfully limited |
| 04:06.55 | kergoth_ | no handling of cycles, it looks like |
| 04:07.34 | cladhaire | http://luaforge.net/projects/w32wrappers/ |
| 04:07.42 | cladhaire | so many api wrappers.. |
| 04:07.44 | cladhaire | heheh |
| 04:07.51 | cladhaire | luaforge could keep me occupied for a week |
| 04:07.57 | kergoth_ | have you checked out luacheia? |
| 04:08.19 | kergoth_ | its pretty cool. lua wrapped up with a ton of libraries, to make it more suitable out of the box for prototyping and general purpose scripting |
| 04:08.23 | kergoth_ | sqlite bindings, etc |
| 04:08.39 | cladhaire | oh wow. |
| 04:08.44 | cladhaire | i like |
| 04:08.57 | kergoth_ | http://luacheia.lua-users.org/ |
| 04:09.04 | kergoth_ | check out the module list |
| 04:09.20 | kergoth_ | posix (select(), etc), cgi, pack, bit, rex, sockets, sqlite... yummy |
| 04:09.25 | kergoth_ | :) |
| 04:10.26 | cladhaire | wow.. very nice |
| 04:10.32 | cladhaire | i've already considered LUA for some decent web programming |
| 04:10.50 | kergoth_ | me too. itd be a lot lighter weight than python, which is what i'd use normally |
| 04:10.54 | kergoth_ | or ruby, even |
| 04:11.03 | cladhaire | i dont like ruby or python |
| 04:11.08 | cladhaire | i think they try to be too much |
| 04:11.27 | kergoth_ | they're beasts. bloated and slow. |
| 04:11.32 | cladhaire | For small applications, i fyou handle complexity and seperate out correctly.. PHP does it perfectly |
| 04:11.43 | cladhaire | its not the catch-all for the web.. but it makes sense, and does its job well. |
| 04:11.49 | cladhaire | its poor implementations that plague it more than anything |
| 04:12.32 | cladhaire | do you have any example output of luadoc or anythign like it |
| 04:12.36 | cladhaire | i may doc watchdog this week at work |
| 04:12.38 | cladhaire | :P |
| 04:12.49 | kergoth_ | hehe. not handy. i'm pretty sure its on luaforge, might be something there |
| 04:13.00 | cladhaire | nvm.. found some |
| 04:13.02 | kergoth_ | or you could check stdlib out of svn and run the util/ldoc.lua against one of the modules |
| 04:13.03 | kergoth_ | k |
| 04:13.14 | kergoth_ | afaik its pretty basic, but could easily enhance it |
| 04:13.24 | kergoth_ | the important thing is getting your methods documented in a standard format |
| 04:14.41 | cladhaire | aye |
| 04:14.45 | cladhaire | that's what i'm looking at.. |
| 04:15.48 | Tain | Ah I like both Ruby and Python, but neither are good for "everything". |
| 04:16.00 | kergoth_ | nod |
| 04:16.08 | kergoth_ | i still use perl for any major text parsing |
| 04:16.42 | kergoth_ | there's something to be said for regex support in a language, like that ;) |
| 04:16.46 | cladhaire | perl is insane.. thats why i love it :P |
| 04:17.01 | Tain | Yep. :) |
| 04:17.21 | kergoth_ | i love those "oneliners" i write at the shell prompt |
| 04:17.26 | kergoth_ | that are usually really a paragraph or two :P |
| 04:17.27 | cladhaire | hahah |
| 04:17.34 | cladhaire | i had a project |
| 04:17.53 | cladhaire | converting a web server from netscape 3.0 enterprise/coldfusion to apache/mysql on a unix machine. |
| 04:18.07 | cladhaire | had to go through and lowercase all filenames |
| 04:18.09 | Tain | That's why I'm glad for MS's new shell coming. I have to work in it, I might as well get some good use out of it. |
| 04:18.30 | kergoth_ | pfft, install bash ;) |
| 04:18.38 | cladhaire | then parse all HTML/CFML files for javascript and <img src tags, (as well as href's) and convert the filename references to lowercase as well |
| 04:18.45 | cladhaire | MS's new shell will be poopy |
| 04:18.49 | cladhaire | does nothing more than tcsh/bash |
| 04:19.06 | Tain | That is true. And it's also a great improvement. |
| 04:19.06 | cladhaire | or at least-- I'm not convinced yet :P |
| 04:19.16 | kergoth_ | i've been trained to not use tcsh or bashisms now |
| 04:19.25 | kergoth_ | all my shell is SuSv3 compliant, and therefore portable |
| 04:19.32 | cladhaire | aaah |
| 04:19.33 | kergoth_ | the curse of using busybox, ash, and other tools in embedded systems |
| 04:19.45 | cladhaire | i've never ventured in the embedded world |
| 04:19.47 | cladhaire | but i appreciate it :P |
| 04:19.50 | kergoth_ | hehe |
| 04:20.05 | Tain | As I've said, it won't be anything ot make someone switch to a MS OS, but it will make it so much easier for those of us who have to work with them. |
| 04:20.45 | cladhaire | oh yeah |
| 04:20.49 | Tain | If you've only seen the VBScripts I've had to write to do things. heh |
| 04:20.52 | cladhaire | i'm in a full active directory world at work |
| 04:20.58 | cladhaire | vbscript, asp, AD.. *cry* |
| 04:21.01 | kergoth_ | basic was my first language |
| 04:21.11 | kergoth_ | which may explain my random acts of perversity |
| 04:21.11 | kergoth_ | ;) |
| 04:21.12 | cladhaire | just had to finish out a web app in ASP. |
| 04:21.19 | cladhaire | guess how you test whether something is defined in jscript/asp? |
| 04:21.47 | Tain | The new shell will allow native direct access to all .NET objects. |
| 04:21.49 | cladhaire | if (String(Request("Query_String")) == "Undefined") { // Do stuff when its not defined here } else { // I hate this language } |
| 04:21.57 | kergoth_ | haha |
| 04:22.00 | kergoth_ | oh my |
| 04:22.05 | cladhaire | you have to nmake a stringk out of it |
| 04:22.18 | cladhaire | cause Request("Query_String") == "" or null.. neither of them work. |
| 04:22.22 | cladhaire | and then you compare it to "Undefined". |
| 04:22.29 | cladhaire | I hated my life for that moment.. |
| 04:22.31 | kergoth_ | i was quite amused when someone told me the other day that java actually has an object for NULL |
| 04:22.46 | cladhaire | O.o? |
| 04:24.05 | kergoth_ | erm, not null, but void |
| 04:24.08 | kergoth_ | silly memory of mine |
| 04:24.20 | cladhaire | stil.. |
| 04:24.24 | cladhaire | java has some silliness :P |
| 04:24.49 | kergoth_ | http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Void.html |
| 04:24.49 | kergoth_ | "The Void class is an uninstantiable placeholder class to hold a reference to the Class object representing the Java keyword void." |
| 04:26.01 | Tain | Java is nice to work with. It gets maligned a lot as slow, but it doesn' thave to be. |
| 04:26.16 | kergoth_ | i hear really good things about C# and .NET |
| 04:26.36 | FryGuy | i hate the super objectification, with no operator overloading and ugly method syntax for some stuff |
| 04:26.40 | cladhaire | I know you've covered this before, but is there some community snv server I can use.. I can't run svn on any of my shell accounts =( |
| 04:26.47 | kergoth_ | i'd really like to learn them one of these days |
| 04:26.57 | cladhaire | sadly its not for an ace add-on.. but i'd put AceHealStats there as well =) |
| 04:27.19 | kergoth_ | you mean you cant run an svn server? or svn at all? |
| 04:27.31 | FryGuy | you can run tortoisesvn and create a local repository |
| 04:27.34 | kergoth_ | there are lots of free svn service providers, but they dont give you shell accounts, you need to use a local client |
| 04:27.39 | kergoth_ | yeah, tortoisesvn works well in windows |
| 04:27.42 | kergoth_ | if thats your cup of tea |
| 04:28.03 | cladhaire | kk i may look at that.. didn't realize it would use a local repo.. but that makes sense. |
| 04:29.01 | kergoth_ | svn can use a number of formats for the repo.. a bdb/gdbm type database file, or fsfs, which is a bunch of flatfiles (iirc), or.. :) |
| 04:29.14 | cladhaire | i need to handle working between work and home.. so I'll have to figure something out. |
| 04:29.21 | kergoth_ | i run svn on my local server for all my miscellanious code, my configuration files from /etc, my .vimrc, etc |
| 04:30.28 | Tain | I forget, can the svn repository do auto-diffs based on comitting a different branch? |
| 04:30.40 | kergoth_ | what do you mean by autodiffs? |
| 04:31.17 | Tain | Well, I was thinking I should create a diff between the files I've changed for aceperl to the originals. |
| 04:31.25 | Tain | So Thister cna see easily the things I changed. |
| 04:32.00 | cladhaire | kergoth: can tortoise handle access through an http proxy? |
| 04:33.35 | cladhaire | looks like the default client can.. i'll have to look at tortoise |
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| 04:36.25 | kergoth | meh |
| 04:36.58 | cladhaire | looks like tortoise works through proxy.. so now i just have to find a remote repo |
| 04:37.21 | kergoth | anyway, what do you mean by autodiffs? |
| 04:37.21 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:38.26 | kergoth | grr |
| 04:38.28 | Tain | kergoth: to automatically show what's differnet between a branch I send up and the trunk. |
| 04:38.32 | kergoth | cladhaire: you can use our opensvn for your ace based stuff, if you dont already |
| 04:38.46 | kergoth | Tain: automatically? when? |
| 04:44.13 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo3 .. aka Fun With Table Serialization |
| 04:50.38 | cladhaire | kergoth: I'm having a bitch of a time figuring out how to use this local repo properlyu. .=( |
| 04:52.32 | cladhaire | i'm getting it tho :P |
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| 05:00.27 | cladhaire | blegh |
| 05:00.33 | cladhaire | sorry your connection is having issues kergoth |
| 05:00.36 | cladhaire | i'm of ffor the night. |
| 05:00.42 | cladhaire | best wishes all |
| 05:01.40 | kergoth | meh, i wish my net connection would actually stay up |
| 05:07.28 | FranzkAFKa | Heh |
| 05:07.47 | FranzkAFKa | I asked a question, answered it myself, then someone asked the same question after me |
| 05:08.37 | kergoth | heh |
| 05:14.54 | kergoth | man, http://lua-users.org/wiki/GeneralizedPairsAndIpairs would be nice to see make it into lua itsef |
| 05:15.01 | kergoth | This code redefines pairs and ipairs so that: |
| 05:15.02 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:15.02 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:15.11 | kergoth | gives you control over iteration |
| 05:23.05 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/PairsMeta |
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| 06:09.53 | kergoth | ~emulate chris |
| 06:09.54 | purl | It'll be a good chance to get away from the evil monkey that lives in my closet. |
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| 08:00.02 | Industrial | morning |
| 08:40.25 | *** join/##ace Randor (n=Randor@pd95b1114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:06.43 | *** join/##ace Rowne (n=Wuff@81-178-87-205.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 09:17.43 | *** part/##ace Rowne (n=Wuff@81-178-87-205.dsl.pipex.com) |
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| 14:01.46 | Randor | g'day to all |
| 14:01.51 | kergoth | s/g'// |
| 14:02.00 | Randor | pardon, day |
| 14:02.05 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:02.08 | kergoth | how goes it? |
| 14:02.14 | Randor | why not "g'"? |
| 14:02.22 | Randor | for me fine.. could be better.. but when not? ;) |
| 14:02.31 | kergoth | heh, true that |
| 14:02.32 | kergoth | ~today |
| 14:02.37 | purl | i heard monday is when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix |
| 14:03.45 | Randor | is the term "bridg[e|ing] day" valid in english? |
| 14:04.16 | Randor | for a free day between weekend and a red-letter day? |
| 14:05.33 | Randor | half of my office took free today... and today a new student apprentice starts.. nothing works for her, she is sitting in front of me and can't do anything as she has neither a pc nor any clue what she shall do :D |
| 14:05.49 | Randor | i could tell her what to do, but then i couldn't laugh about her all the time |
| 14:11.48 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:12.03 | kergoth | when i started at ti, it took them like 2-3 weeks to get me a security badge and a pc |
| 14:12.08 | kergoth | that was annoying :) |
| 14:12.28 | Randor | security badge? |
| 14:13.02 | kergoth | identification and magnetic strip to get past the security guards at the perimeter, as well as past the locks at all the doors on the buildings |
| 14:13.16 | kergoth | combination photo id and security key |
| 14:14.29 | Randor | bah, we don't have security here.. |
| 14:14.56 | Industrial | (my name is tom) |
| 14:15.35 | Randor | in fact.. i have a "locker" in front of me.. with around 150 cellulars in it... not locked... anybody could grab a device... some already "dissapeared"... |
| 14:15.43 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:17.37 | Randor | the joke is: most of the "vanishing" devices have been seen last in hands of the younger brother of our ceo... |
| 14:17.37 | Randor | ;) |
| 14:20.05 | Industrial | lmao |
| 14:20.35 | Industrial | my co-worker just complained that somone put a pencil under his can of coke |
| 14:20.47 | Industrial | (he dropped the coke on his desk) |
| 14:20.48 | Industrial | :P |
| 14:23.43 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:28.47 | Industrial | kergoth: what do you do wor work? |
| 14:29.33 | Industrial | i make asp jscript websites with this huge cms in wich i only have to say "make a new list with columns blah blah" (kind of front end to sql with versioning etc) |
| 14:29.38 | Industrial | for my internship |
| 14:29.40 | Industrial | wich is boring |
| 14:29.53 | Industrial | and icky icky ASP not to forget |
| 14:33.11 | kergoth | i work on code for these routers / network appliances |
| 14:33.31 | kergoth | advanced linux routing and packet filtering and mangling stuff, QOS, etc |
| 14:34.44 | Industrial | assembly? o_O |
| 14:35.58 | kergoth | naw, C. mostly userspace, though i've had to dive into the kernel on more than one occasion |
| 14:36.09 | kergoth | the other day i was reading the linux tcp/ip stack code :) |
| 14:36.31 | Industrial | ;O |
| 14:37.02 | Industrial | hmm |
| 14:37.09 | Industrial | discord action bars should be aced |
| 14:37.19 | Industrial | and maybe a link to visor |
| 14:37.19 | Industrial | :p |
| 14:37.30 | Industrial | unit frames too |
| 14:41.14 | Randor | so, discord should be aced |
| 14:41.14 | Randor | :D |
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| 15:02.43 | kergoth | hey Stylpe |
| 15:03.24 | kergoth | https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/changeset/375 :) |
| 15:03.32 | kergoth | meh, need more caffeine |
| 15:05.12 | Industrial | Randor: yeah |
| 15:05.59 | Industrial | Randor: but i think if we ask the dude that makes it well get the Poopoo Stick (tm) |
| 15:06.36 | Randor | yes, i think you're right on this ;) |
| 15:07.42 | Industrial | =( |
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| 15:12.39 | Industrial | lo Tain |
| 15:16.38 | Randor | ~seen neriak |
| 15:17.05 | purl | neriak <n=Neriak@dslb-084-058-144-100.pools.arcor-ip.net> was last seen on IRC in channel ##ace, 9d 23m 37s ago, saying: 'Hi all'. |
| 15:17.05 | Randor | wasn't it seen? hm.. |
| 15:17.15 | Randor | oh.. |
| 15:17.35 | Randor | strange last words. |
| 15:17.41 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:19.26 | Industrial | kergoth: released any addons lately :>? |
| 15:19.32 | Randor | ~seen money' for my 'work |
| 15:19.33 | purl | i haven't seen 'money' for my 'work', Randor |
| 15:19.34 | Randor | scrn... |
| 15:19.45 | kergoth | heh, no, been doing more general purpose lua madness again |
| 15:19.49 | kergoth | https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/changeset/375 |
| 15:19.51 | Industrial | ;D |
| 15:20.43 | Industrial | looks scary kergoth |
| 15:21.04 | kergoth | look at it. hardly anything there :) |
| 15:21.16 | kergoth | need to understand how iteration works in lua to know what that does though, really |
| 15:21.41 | kergoth | how can i describe it.. okay, this will let classes control how they iterate. |
| 15:22.50 | Industrial | hmm |
| 15:23.50 | Randor | i've never thought good of iterate persons |
| 15:23.56 | Randor | oh wait.. that was literate ;) |
| 15:29.06 | Industrial | gah |
| 15:29.13 | Industrial | why does everyone use tabs |
| 15:29.17 | Industrial | (aceperl) |
| 15:29.43 | kergoth | because it lets people see the file the way they like to see it. their editor is free to adjust the tabwidth |
| 15:31.02 | Industrial | hmm, good point |
| 15:31.40 | kergoth | basicaly you arent forcing everyone to see your code the way you like to see it. |
| 15:32.34 | kergoth | ~emulate me |
| 15:32.38 | purl | ACTION wields a mean polished, spiked cluebat |
| 15:32.46 | Randor | at least when it comes to indentation |
| 15:33.13 | Randor | alignment is another matter.. |
| 15:33.25 | kergoth | indeed. |
| 15:33.33 | Randor | i think i'll try what you told (yesterday?): tabs for indent and space for align... |
| 15:33.41 | Randor | gotta give it a try.. can't harm ;) |
| 15:34.02 | kergoth | it works really well. to really see how it behaves, code something with your editor showing your tabs as 2 spaces, then switch it to 8 and watch the alignment not break ;) |
| 15:34.20 | kergoth | i need to get my vim a bit smarter in that regard though |
| 15:34.22 | Randor | but, doesn't this imply the viewer to either use the same font as i do or both to use monospaced fonts? |
| 15:34.59 | kergoth | yep. but the situation is even worse using the alternatives |
| 15:35.17 | Randor | i have to admit... |
| 15:35.24 | kergoth | alignment will almost always be broken in a non-monospace setup |
| 15:36.09 | Industrial | all text that does something other then being read and/or inform the reader should be monospaced |
| 15:36.13 | Industrial | :> |
| 15:36.37 | kergoth | heh, agreed. it still looks damn good.. there are some really nice monospace fonts. |
| 15:36.46 | Randor | e.g.? |
| 15:37.03 | kergoth | i'm a fan of bitstream vera, myself. |
| 15:37.29 | kergoth | which is under an open license, so is all over the place in linux now. http://www.gnome.org/fonts/ |
| 15:39.25 | Randor | installed |
| 15:39.26 | Randor | checking |
| 15:39.29 | Randor | :) |
| 15:40.49 | Randor | oh yeah, looks like linux ;) |
| 15:59.32 | Industrial | i use sheldon narrow for coding |
| 15:59.50 | Industrial | http://www.tobias-jung.de/seekingprofont/index.html |
| 16:00.00 | Industrial | im gunna go home now :> |
| 16:00.03 | Industrial | bbl |
| 16:16.45 | Randor | finally ;) |
| 16:16.46 | Randor | bbl |
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| 16:26.43 | kergoth | bleh. |
| 16:27.25 | Tain | Today was one of those toss of a coin days as to whether or not I made it to work. |
| 16:27.34 | Tain | Somehow it turned up where I'm here. |
| 16:27.56 | kergoth | not i.. though i'll probably go in for a bit later |
| 16:30.26 | Tain | Well, gotta pay for that rum habit somehow. |
| 16:31.27 | kergoth | i just need to not get canned, before i find my next position. |
| 16:31.37 | kergoth | looks like i'll have an interview lined up shortly |
| 16:33.02 | Tain | I was looking, but decided to try to hang in through Dec 15 where I get my bonus. |
| 16:33.10 | kergoth | ahh right |
| 16:33.21 | kergoth | looks like i'll be moving again. i'm such a fucking nomad. |
| 16:33.45 | Tain | haha in the same area, or a big move? |
| 16:34.25 | kergoth | well... in the same country.. |
| 16:34.30 | kergoth | ;) |
| 16:34.36 | kergoth | looks like minnesota to north carolina this time |
| 16:34.43 | kergoth | after my 3 year bout in texas |
| 16:36.10 | Tain | hah what are you intentionally trying to hit climate extremes each move? |
| 16:36.18 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:36.26 | kergoth | i like the warm and the cold, so it works |
| 16:36.43 | kergoth | course my body isnt always too happy with me.. |
| 16:36.47 | kergoth | but it gets over it |
| 16:36.54 | phyber | someone in the MiniGroup forums is gtrying to get the guy to convert MiniGroup to Ace :) |
| 16:36.58 | phyber | http://wow.jaslaughter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=677 |
| 16:37.03 | kergoth | hah |
| 16:37.16 | kergoth | oh, phyber, did i ever get that svn account set up for you, or did i forget? |
| 16:37.19 | kergoth | my memory sucks. |
| 16:37.27 | phyber | kergoth: I think you forgot :) |
| 16:37.39 | kergoth | right then, figured |
| 16:38.34 | *** join/##ace Industrial (n=tom@hellsblade.xs4all.nl) |
| 16:39.00 | kergoth | we're at 14 people with write access to our svn now :) |
| 16:39.45 | Industrial | :) |
| 16:39.52 | Industrial | time for me to learn lua |
| 16:39.56 | kergoth | good plan |
| 16:40.00 | kergoth | read programming in lua :) |
| 16:40.08 | kergoth | and install a lua interpreter if you havent already |
| 16:40.11 | Industrial | yeah |
| 16:42.20 | Industrial | *creates a working forlder with shortcuts and stuff for this new language* |
| 16:42.38 | Industrial | yeah thats right, right on my desktop |
| 16:42.40 | Industrial | :P |
| 16:43.01 | Industrial | i should actually put it in my start menu folder and link to it from my desktop but im lazy :> |
| 16:45.00 | kergoth | hehe, twisted |
| 16:45.01 | Industrial | lol |
| 16:45.05 | kergoth | works :) |
| 16:45.08 | Industrial | \o/ |
| 16:45.18 | kergoth | local t = {} |
| 16:45.19 | kergoth | local mt1 = {} |
| 16:45.19 | kergoth | local mt2 = {__index = function(t,k) print("mt2.__index()") if k == "__index" then return false end end} |
| 16:45.19 | kergoth | setmetatable(mt1, mt2) |
| 16:45.19 | kergoth | setmetatable(t, mt1) |
| 16:45.34 | Industrial | -_^ |
| 16:45.55 | kergoth | hmmm... |
| 16:46.01 | kergoth | well, works for some values of 'works', anyway |
| 16:46.02 | Industrial | OO = foor for your brain \o/ |
| 16:46.04 | Tain | haha |
| 16:46.09 | Industrial | food, even |
| 16:46.21 | kergoth | when it looks up __index, it doesnt obey the metatable's metatable :) |
| 16:46.22 | Industrial | kergoth: pm |
| 16:46.28 | kergoth | so if i go t[5], it doesnt return fales |
| 16:46.36 | kergoth | but getmetatable(t).__index() will |
| 16:47.07 | phyber | kergoth: that account works nicely. MyBags is all updated now :) thanks. |
| 16:47.15 | kergoth | great |
| 16:47.16 | kergoth | np |
| 16:48.23 | kergoth | local mt2 = {__index = function(t,k) print("mt2.__index()") if k == "__index" then return function(t,k) return false end end end} |
| 16:48.24 | kergoth | print(getmetatable(t).__index(t, 5)) |
| 16:48.26 | kergoth | prints false |
| 16:48.27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:48.48 | kergoth | its a metatable method generator, basically. evil. |
| 16:48.50 | Industrial | never tested mybags |
| 16:48.56 | Industrial | what does it do that OneBag doesnt? |
| 16:49.47 | kergoth | all sorts of things |
| 16:49.54 | kergoth | mybags can show you alts bank contents |
| 16:49.57 | kergoth | etc |
| 16:50.11 | kergoth | i use enginventory for my inventory and mybag's mybank for the bank |
| 16:52.05 | kergoth | -- boolean madness! madness, i say! |
| 16:52.05 | kergoth | table1[false] = true |
| 16:52.07 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:53.39 | Tain | haha |
| 16:54.06 | Tain | No no you need true, false, and file not found. |
| 16:55.22 | kergoth | hahaha |
| 16:57.41 | kergoth | i wonder if http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo4 would be useful |
| 16:57.45 | kergoth | course you'd then have to: |
| 16:57.53 | kergoth | if tobool(var) then .. end |
| 17:03.15 | Tain | What? heh where who how.. turn an object into a bool. |
| 17:03.55 | Industrial | o_O |
| 17:04.08 | kergoth | well, you do it all the time whether you know it or not.. you're essentially working in a boolean context whenever you do: if blah then .. else .. end |
| 17:04.11 | Industrial | my brain just broke |
| 17:04.21 | kergoth | since that enters when blah is neither nil or false |
| 17:04.29 | kergoth | and hits the else block if its non-nil or true |
| 17:04.35 | kergoth | erm, if it isnt |
| 17:05.13 | kergoth | tobool() just explicitly evaluates something in that context, handing you 'true' or 'false' based on what if thought of it, assuming the table didnt have an __bool to control its own boolean state |
| 17:05.23 | kergoth | case in point, if lua did this automatically, we wouldnt need DBNIL |
| 17:05.31 | kergoth | because it could return false in its __bool |
| 17:05.55 | kergoth | so if a.b.c.d.e then .. end would behave properly for our db.Set/db.Get |
| 17:06.20 | kergoth | but with that method, you could do if tobool(a.b.c.d.e) then .. end instead of directly comparing against DBNIL, and itd be more flexible.. but i dunno whether or not its worthwhile |
| 17:07.13 | Tain | Ah ok I see what you're asying. |
| 17:07.32 | kergoth | lets your table go "yep! i'm false alright. uh huh." |
| 17:07.36 | kergoth | heh |
| 17:09.33 | Industrial | pimp my table: "Yeah i used to be so true, but now im false baby" friend of table: "I think the false really fits with him, he's a great table and now he has a great false" |
| 17:10.04 | Industrial | k, less tv for me |
| 17:10.10 | kergoth | hehe |
| 17:21.13 | *** join/##ace FryGuy (n=FryGuy@c-67-182-162-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:30.07 | *** join/##ace Randor (n=Randor@xdsl-81-173-145-193.netcologne.de) |
| 17:43.45 | Tain | I want to find a way to hijack a Blizzard frame, but keep the same frame name so I don't break other people's addons. |
| 17:44.01 | Tain | It's easy to add on to frames defined in the xml. |
| 17:44.38 | Tain | But I don't see how to sort of "hook" one and have it load my xml file instead, but keep the frame names still the same. |
| 17:47.47 | Randor | http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8159/murky0oy.jpg <= i want one :D |
| 17:52.10 | Industrial | :O |
| 18:05.45 | kergoth | Tain: define your FooCustomFrame .. then when your addon initializes, do OriginalPlayerFrame = FooCustomFrame |
| 18:05.59 | kergoth | Tain: as long as they both have the same widget api, itll work fine |
| 18:06.07 | kergoth | (in theory ;) |
| 18:06.08 | Stylpe | :O :O :O What a pet! |
| 18:08.15 | Tain | I tried (I think) doing that, and it didn't work out. Let me think about it though, maybe there is something I didn't do. |
| 18:13.23 | kergoth | Tain: hehe, you could probably even do.. OriginalFrame[0] = YourFrame[0] |
| 18:13.39 | kergoth | leaving the lua table alone, just changing the reference to the userdata for the frame, from teh xml |
| 18:13.45 | kergoth | worth a shot anyway |
| 18:19.20 | Tain | Hrm. |
| 18:22.10 | Tain | In the xml itself and not even needing a lua file |
| 18:22.10 | kergoth | oh, just override it directly? but how would you back up the original if you need to reference it anywhere? |
| 18:22.10 | Tain | Ah.. er yeah. |
| 18:23.58 | kergoth | hm, could you create a new frame that inherits from the one you're replacing, then override it after that? so you can access the former as a version of the original? |
| 18:25.29 | Tain | I still need to redirect the calls to the original frame to my frame. Inheriting and just replacing what I want is easy. |
| 18:25.49 | kergoth | i know. |
| 18:25.53 | kergoth | you didnt get what i said |
| 18:26.38 | kergoth | create FooBarFrame, inheriting from OriginalFrame. Then define a new OriginalFrame to replace the old with yours. then you could probably reference FooBarFrame if you need to get at any of the original methods. |
| 18:26.53 | kergoth | thats all in the xml |
| 18:27.14 | Tain | Oh right. |
| 18:27.44 | kergoth | it /should/ work, but it depends on whether the xml frame definitions are evaluated immediately or lazily |
| 18:27.58 | kergoth | if the latter, foobarframe would end up inheriting your version, and that wouldnt give you anything |
| 18:28.13 | kergoth | but itd be worth a shot.. |
| 18:29.15 | kergoth | s/update/propogate/ |
| 18:30.38 | Randor | while you are waiting... |
| 18:30.41 | Randor | any news on clog? :D |
| 18:31.08 | kergoth | meh. not really.. keep pestering me and i'll get to it |
| 18:31.09 | kergoth | :P |
| 18:31.32 | Randor | pester... |
| 18:31.48 | Randor | *whispers*: c.....l.....o.....g.... |
| 18:31.51 | Randor | :D |
| 18:32.20 | Randor | gimme something i could help you with |
| 18:32.41 | Randor | hm.. wait that sentence doesn't make any sense i fear |
| 18:32.47 | kergoth | the main part is the global translation table, that converts the strings into something useful |
| 18:32.55 | Randor | uhm.. can i help you somehow? |
| 18:32.56 | Randor | better |
| 18:33.31 | kergoth | beyond that, the hooking of events to let clog parse for you is extra, but necessary for acehits, since you need a clean way to let addons bypass you. |
| 18:34.18 | Randor | hm.. i wonder... |
| 18:34.19 | Randor | mom |
| 18:35.30 | Randor | hm.. no... wouldn't make much sense to overwrite RegisterEvent just for that... |
| 18:38.29 | Tain | Now I'd rather be home so I can test. |
| 18:39.43 | kergoth | hmm |
| 18:41.16 | Randor | uhoh... does this idea involve any kind of weapons or shiny elements? |
| 18:41.42 | kergoth | only if you consider setfenv() a weapon |
| 18:42.04 | Randor | not a remotely a weapon.. but dangerous |
| 18:44.00 | kergoth | haha |
| 18:44.00 | kergoth | aww |
| 18:44.02 | kergoth | [12:44-38] [string "Ace:print(Perl_Player_Frame.RegisterEvent)..."]:6: `setfenv' cannot change environment of given function |
| 18:44.09 | kergoth | well, i tried.. |
| 18:44.25 | Tain | hehe |
| 18:44.32 | kergoth | i was gonna give it a new global environment for the context of all the frames registerevent.. |
| 18:44.51 | kergoth | which would hold the originals |
| 18:44.59 | Randor | uhm.. wouldn't overwriting the global RegisterEvent do the same? |
| 18:45.49 | Randor | then you could "simply" deroute the events needed for clog to your table and forget the unwanted/-needed events |
| 18:46.14 | kergoth | so addons wouldnt get their events at all? |
| 18:46.38 | Randor | yes they would.. but.. uhm.. |
| 18:46.45 | Randor | *gotta finish the thought :D |
| 18:47.17 | Randor | example: sct does this:RegisterEvent("CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_CREATURE_VS_SELF_MISSES"); and many more to prepare the parsing |
| 18:47.25 | kergoth | yes, and? |
| 18:47.38 | Randor | or at least pretending.. |
| 18:47.39 | Randor | uhm.. |
| 18:47.58 | kergoth | he still gets passed your mangled text when blizzard calls his event handler.. unless you dont register that event directly with blizzard.. |
| 18:48.03 | kergoth | ah, that could work.. |
| 18:48.13 | Randor | ... |
| 18:48.17 | kergoth | let clog do all the event dispatching? thats a good point |
| 18:48.35 | Randor | thanks for typing my thoughts.. i was unable to articulate them :D |
| 18:48.38 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:48.56 | kergoth | the problem there is, then clog is holding knowledge of which events its intercepting again. |
| 18:49.04 | kergoth | which i dont like |
| 18:49.10 | Randor | i understand |
| 18:49.12 | kergoth | hmm |
| 18:49.18 | kergoth | thats why its good if we had addons calling clog directly. |
| 18:49.26 | Randor | and if you dispatch generally? |
| 18:49.27 | kergoth | then that registration informs it what globals it needs to mess with |
| 18:49.35 | kergoth | performance implications. |
| 18:49.41 | kergoth | we'd be a bottleneck |
| 18:50.00 | Randor | is to say: not only a defined subset of the available events will get redirected but the events which addons like acehit would register |
| 18:50.19 | Randor | hm.. clog would have to check all events against the registered events.. |
| 18:51.04 | Randor | so currently the idea can be reduced to: general but slow as hell, or fast but specific.. |
| 18:51.13 | Randor | well.. "fast" |
| 18:51.15 | kergoth | we dont want to do all the event dispatching. do you have any idea how often some of those events fire? |
| 18:51.20 | kergoth | blech |
| 18:51.39 | Randor | no, i don't know.. but i have a shrewd idea ... |
| 18:51.39 | kergoth | we only want to hook the combat events, but clog doesnt know wahts a combat event until someone tells it. |
| 18:51.50 | Randor | but wow knows |
| 18:51.51 | Randor | mom |
| 18:52.09 | kergoth | although, acehits could call a method to set it up to dispatch only for those events, and let blizzard do the rest. |
| 18:52.43 | kergoth | wow has those grouped, doesnt it? |
| 18:52.49 | kergoth | the chat frame can group by different types of messages.. |
| 18:52.51 | kergoth | where is that info stored? |
| 18:53.14 | Randor | ChatTypeGroup <= thats the global of interest |
| 18:53.20 | kergoth | hmm |
| 18:53.24 | Randor | but unfortunately.. it is a huge table... |
| 18:53.29 | Randor | not really sorted.. |
| 18:53.44 | Randor | uhm.. /Interface/FrameXML/ChatFrame.lua |
| 18:53.48 | kergoth | meh, itd be best if we only acted as dispatcher for events that acehits is mangling. |
| 18:53.53 | kergoth | that way is probably best |
| 18:53.58 | kergoth | you inform clog what to intercept |
| 18:54.01 | kergoth | or.. you intercept yourself |
| 18:54.08 | Randor | so acehits would register with clog telling which events i want managed |
| 18:54.15 | kergoth | and use clog only to rip out the pieces of the original messages you want |
| 18:54.38 | kergoth | i kinda dont like having clog intercepting the global event registration |
| 18:54.45 | Randor | that way any other addon |
| 18:54.46 | Randor | mom tel |
| 18:54.50 | kergoth | i do like the idea of it having a register function itself, that addons can call directly |
| 18:54.55 | kergoth | k |
| 18:54.56 | kergoth | hmm |
| 19:09.27 | Randor | re |
| 19:09.29 | Randor | sorry |
| 19:09.38 | Randor | where was i.. ah yes |
| 19:10.41 | Randor | if the event registration laid (layd?) on AceHits side, every other addon with similiar functionality would have to reproduce this code, wouldn't it make more sense to put this into the library? |
| 19:11.09 | Randor | bah, forget laid/layd, let's say "was" |
| 19:11.34 | *** join/##ace Tem (n=Matt@ip70-177-40-169.br.br.cox.net) |
| 19:11.37 | Randor | hi tem |
| 19:11.44 | Tem | hi |
| 19:11.53 | Tem | hows everyone doing? |
| 19:11.58 | Stylpe | bored |
| 19:12.06 | Tem | join the club |
| 19:12.52 | Stylpe | I should be doing homework, but I feel like not doing homework (And that's not bad grammar, that's carefully worded) |
| 19:12.53 | kergoth | Randor: well, the registerevent hooking isnt going to be very common. how many addons directly mangle the globals? |
| 19:12.56 | Randor | hm.. everyone is bored.. everyone can code... and everyone owns a copy of wow... isn't that paradox? |
| 19:13.34 | Randor | ker, if people see how easy and efficient it is not to parse the strings i guess we'll have many of them ;) |
| 19:13.35 | kergoth | Randor: as to the patterns for getting values from the globals, that could easily be a function set up via aceutils or aceglobals, so the users dont see an additional dependency, but if you have it, it uses that instead. |
| 19:13.58 | kergoth | well, true. just getting called on the event and passed the values is pretty simple and easy |
| 19:14.42 | Tem | Randor: are you still pursuing AceHits in a way that break everything else? |
| 19:15.10 | Randor | tem, not pursuing.. the "break-other-addons-that-are-popular" part is already done and works fine |
| 19:15.13 | Randor | :D |
| 19:15.22 | Tem | heh |
| 19:15.33 | Tem | I guess I'll have to make my own port for Hitsmode then |
| 19:15.36 | Tem | bah |
| 19:15.44 | Stylpe | You mean 'As intended', not 'fine' =P |
| 19:15.53 | Randor | now i am working on the part "make other addons work again" |
| 19:16.33 | Tem | kergoth: did you ever flesh out Clog? |
| 19:17.28 | kergoth | thats what we're talking about |
| 19:18.06 | Tem | hmm well continue, I'll catch up |
| 19:18.17 | Randor | tem, don't rewrite hitsmode on your own, but transform sct/spellalert to work with clog |
| 19:18.21 | kergoth | just discussing whether it should be standalone or a util |
| 19:18.35 | kergoth | since its pretty damn basic, just a little function and a memoizing table |
| 19:18.48 | kergoth | but having event registration that does the parsing for you could be nifty |
| 19:19.05 | kergoth | but given users completely unfounded hatred of additional dependencies.. :) |
| 19:19.09 | Tem | well have the parsere a util |
| 19:19.16 | Tem | and the event registration an addon |
| 19:19.22 | kergoth | yeah, thatd do |
| 19:19.48 | Tem | Randor: I planned out a way to do hitsmode that would be very simple and wouldn't break anything, I'd like to try it out |
| 19:19.49 | Randor | *cheers* |
| 19:20.44 | Randor | tem, does it involve parsing? |
| 19:20.51 | Tem | a little |
| 19:21.09 | kergoth | all it needs to involve is a table of event -> format string for the new string |
| 19:21.16 | Tem | yeah |
| 19:21.21 | Tem | that's what it is kergoth |
| 19:21.23 | kergoth | then use clog to convert the contents of the event global into the values for the format string |
| 19:21.25 | kergoth | nothing to it |
| 19:21.36 | Tem | oh no, I wasn't using events |
| 19:21.44 | kergoth | well, hook, what have you |
| 19:21.49 | Randor | no events but parsing? |
| 19:21.52 | Tem | I'm hooking ChatFrame:AddMessage |
| 19:21.55 | Randor | ah |
| 19:22.06 | Tem | but the event would be considerably more efficient |
| 19:22.26 | kergoth | so you'd just call out the addmessage yourself then, on a new frame |
| 19:22.30 | kergoth | rather than relying on the existing combat lgo? |
| 19:22.36 | kergoth | (for the event version) |
| 19:22.39 | kergoth | or.. |
| 19:22.56 | Randor | yes that would stay compatible with combat parsing events... as they'd get the original string .. |
| 19:22.58 | kergoth | oh, tem, you should see my most recent madness |
| 19:23.00 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/mediawiki/index.php/Code/Lua/Foo4 |
| 19:23.08 | Tem | For the event verison I would need to use a seperate chatframe |
| 19:23.23 | Tem | for the hooked addmessage I would be changing the combat log directly |
| 19:23.29 | kergoth | right, thats what i thought |
| 19:24.30 | Tem | I didn't know there was a function to directly access a metamethod |
| 19:24.45 | kergoth | there isnt. thats from stdlib |
| 19:24.49 | Tem | oh |
| 19:24.50 | kergoth | the one that uses pcall to catch the error |
| 19:24.55 | Tem | right |
| 19:25.11 | kergoth | but i wonder if that tobool would be useful. you could use that instead of directly comparing against DBNIL... |
| 19:26.12 | Tem | shouldn't that read "local bool = metamethod(x, "__tobool") " |
| 19:26.24 | Tem | instead of "expr" |
| 19:26.25 | kergoth | oh, yeah, missed that |
| 19:26.37 | kergoth | before i was using a second local, but that was silly. can mangle x to our hearts content |
| 19:26.46 | Tem | yeah |
| 19:27.08 | kergoth | oh.. and the other cute thing.. check out https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/changeset/375 |
| 19:27.10 | Tem | Is there a pattern for which events go with which global string? |
| 19:27.42 | kergoth | you mean.. is there a way to determine which of the global k/v pairs are for combat specific events? |
| 19:27.50 | kergoth | or..? |
| 19:28.22 | Tem | is there a way to programatically figure which global string is the string.format pattern for an event? |
| 19:28.55 | kergoth | isnt the key the event? the format of the value varies, thats why i mangle them into patterns i can use to yank the values out of |
| 19:29.04 | Randor | i'd say no, as even the names differ from event to global |
| 19:29.08 | kergoth | ah. |
| 19:29.13 | kergoth | there i go, expecting sanity again |
| 19:29.21 | kergoth | ~lart me |
| 19:29.25 | Randor | CHAT_MSG_SPELL_PERIODIC_SELF_DAMAGE <= event SPELLPERIODICSPELLDAMAGE <= global |
| 19:29.32 | Tem | damn, I'm going to have to go through the list... /cry |
| 19:29.35 | kergoth | wow. |
| 19:29.38 | kergoth | thats amazing. |
| 19:29.48 | Randor | what? |
| 19:29.56 | kergoth | blizzard's foolishness never ceases to amaze me. |
| 19:29.58 | kergoth | :P |
| 19:29.59 | Randor | :D |
| 19:30.46 | Randor | uhm.. SPELLPERIODICSPELLDAMAGE isn't the global.. it lacks the suffix telling the subject and the object |
| 19:30.51 | Randor | SELF and OTHER |
| 19:31.34 | Tem | Woah, I've never seen this before |
| 19:31.35 | Tem | SPELLDURABILITYDAMAGEALLOTHEROTHER = "%s casts %s on %s: all items damaged."; |
| 19:31.51 | Randor | isn't used |
| 19:32.04 | Tem | maybe you've just never seen the mob before |
| 19:32.13 | Randor | check ingame if it is really defined (not all globals in GlobalStrings.lua are defined ingame |
| 19:33.15 | Randor | for example: globals that still contain %s instead of %N$s are likely to be either overwritten ingame or not used at all |
| 19:33.41 | Tem | Abuuh? |
| 19:34.21 | Randor | uhm.. yes? |
| 19:38.41 | Tem | what does %N$s mean in a string.format? |
| 19:39.33 | Randor | pardon, it is %1$s for example |
| 19:39.43 | Randor | N = ordinal integer in this case |
| 19:40.02 | Randor | needed for sorting i'd say |
| 19:40.44 | Randor | string.format("%s before %s", "a", "b") always would become "a before b" |
| 19:41.21 | Randor | with string.format("%2$s before %1$s", "a", "b") you'd get "b before a" |
| 19:41.23 | Randor | i guess.. |
| 19:41.36 | Tem | weird |
| 19:43.04 | Randor | i get obsolete option (d$) to `format' :( |
| 19:43.12 | Randor | maybe wow uses an older version of lua then |
| 19:43.15 | Tem | oh god damnit rowne |
| 19:43.20 | Tem | he broke fireshow |
| 19:43.24 | Tem | then quits coding |
| 19:43.54 | Tem | ~lart rowne |
| 19:44.07 | kergoth | Randor: no. %1 and %2 are to be used on the other side of a replacement. |
| 19:44.11 | kergoth | they reference the () matches |
| 19:44.28 | Randor | for gsub |
| 19:44.31 | Randor | ? |
| 19:44.51 | kergoth | yep |
| 19:44.57 | Randor | *phew* |
| 19:45.18 | Randor | ah now i remember.. if it was for string.format we wouldn't neetd clog.. |
| 19:45.22 | kergoth | string.gsub("foo = bar", "(this) = (that)", "%2, %1") where this and that would be your matches, obviously |
| 19:45.39 | kergoth | yeah, clog is just a memoizing table that mangles the globals back into normal format strings |
| 19:45.46 | kergoth | and a couple convenience functions |
| 19:57.45 | Tem | There, I fixed fireshow |
| 19:58.18 | kergoth | nice |
| 19:58.32 | Tem | small oversight |
| 19:59.25 | Tem | https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/Ace/trac.cgi/changeset/381 |
| 20:00.21 | kergoth | aha |
| 20:00.23 | Tem | Wow... This comment by itself explains a lot about blizzard's code |
| 20:00.27 | Tem | "-- Do more stuff!!!" |
| 20:00.30 | kergoth | haha |
| 20:01.02 | Tem | and damnit! the event text is preformated |
| 20:02.34 | Tem | kergoth: did you ever post the rest of the clog stuff? |
| 20:02.56 | Tem | I really don't feel like making a table for every event -> format string association |
| 20:03.09 | Tem | so it would be nice to have one already done =P |
| 20:04.53 | kergoth | http://ace.pastebin.com/412523 |
| 20:04.57 | kergoth | that should be sufficient. |
| 20:05.51 | Tem | bah that's not what I need |
| 20:05.59 | kergoth | then what do you need? |
| 20:06.05 | kergoth | that clogparser table probably does what you want |
| 20:06.27 | kergoth | just turns the globals into something sane. |
| 20:06.41 | Randor | ker, this "do .... end" is just to keep everything local? |
| 20:06.48 | kergoth | aceutil lets you register tables, it isnt biased to functions |
| 20:06.50 | kergoth | Randor: yep |
| 20:07.28 | Tem | kergoth: that pastebin is missing the preparser function |
| 20:07.36 | kergoth | errm |
| 20:07.37 | kergoth | damnit |
| 20:07.54 | kergoth | where it go |
| 20:08.00 | kergoth | ah, there it is |
| 20:08.30 | kergoth | http://ace.pastebin.com/412528 |
| 20:08.35 | kergoth | badly indented, but you get the point |
| 20:08.40 | kergoth | not much to it. |
| 20:09.36 | Tem | bah, still not what I was hoping for |
| 20:09.44 | kergoth | heh, what are you looking for? |
| 20:10.02 | Tem | A table that associates events and globalstrings |
| 20:10.03 | Randor | a list of events with corresponding globals ;) |
| 20:10.06 | Randor | :D |
| 20:10.16 | kergoth | clog just make sense of whats its handed. it relies on the addon talking to it to find that |
| 20:10.38 | kergoth | well, if you figure out how to generate that table, add it to this util |
| 20:10.39 | kergoth | :P |
| 20:10.49 | Tem | lol |
| 20:11.21 | Tem | I think it's just going to be a long process of looking through globalstrings |
| 20:11.38 | kergoth | maybe we'll get lucky.. is there a pattern to it? |
| 20:11.41 | kergoth | or.. hmm... |
| 20:12.03 | kergoth | you know .. i've seen fuzzy match stuff for lua strings. |
| 20:12.14 | Tem | really? |
| 20:12.17 | kergoth | fuzzy lookup either the message or the event to try to find the other :) |
| 20:12.18 | Tem | that'd be interesting |
| 20:12.22 | kergoth | i doubt any other messages would be that similar |
| 20:12.26 | kergoth | even if the formats arent standardized |
| 20:12.38 | Tem | but it looks like multiple events share global strings |
| 20:12.46 | Tem | so I think you're out of luck there |
| 20:12.53 | Tem | I'm looking at the hitsmode code now |
| 20:12.53 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 20:12.55 | Tem | Oh god |
| 20:13.13 | Tem | it's a huge if then else |
| 20:13.15 | kergoth | lots and lots of big ugly tables? |
| 20:13.16 | kergoth | haha |
| 20:13.21 | kergoth | even worse. |
| 20:13.33 | Tem | I was hoping to find a table to steal |
| 20:13.41 | Randor | tem, what do you think why i didn't want to parse? :D |
| 20:13.59 | Randor | tem, take the table of events in hitsmode and the table of globals in acehits... |
| 20:14.30 | kergoth | bah, i googled for lua fuzzy |
| 20:14.33 | kergoth | "uzzy-Wuzzy was a bear. Fuzzy-Wuzzy had no hair." |
| 20:14.34 | Tem | hitsmode doesn't have a table |
| 20:14.38 | kergoth | that wasnt what i was looking for, damnit |
| 20:14.47 | Tem | it's not even localized |
| 20:14.53 | Tem | oh god this is awful |
| 20:14.54 | kergoth | :( |
| 20:14.54 | Randor | no tem... but lots of if(event) then elseif(event).. |
| 20:14.55 | Randor | :D |
| 20:14.56 | kergoth | Tem: http://lua-users.org/files/wiki_insecure/binary_modules/fuzzy5/lfuzzy.c |
| 20:15.00 | kergoth | c :( |
| 20:15.07 | kergoth | looks simple enough though.. |
| 20:16.00 | Tem | oh what the hell |
| 20:16.06 | Tem | why write in it C? |
| 20:16.09 | Tem | WHY!? |
| 20:16.16 | kergoth | performance. iteration over a string is probably slow |
| 20:16.16 | Randor | faster? |
| 20:16.17 | kergoth | :( |
| 20:16.27 | Tem | bah |
| 20:18.07 | Tem | oh good, german comments |
| 20:18.13 | Tem | I can totally read those |
| 20:18.16 | kergoth | i dunno if its what's needed anyway, but ... |
| 20:18.18 | kergoth | hehe |
| 20:18.19 | Randor | acehits? |
| 20:18.31 | Tem | no the lfuzzy.c |
| 20:18.42 | Randor | where? |
| 20:18.51 | Tem | http://lua-users.org/files/wiki_insecure/binary_modules/fuzzy5/lfuzzy.c |
| 20:19.01 | Industrial | Does anyone here use the labrat toolkit for windows? I want to be able to access some exe files (lua.exe and my windows gvim.exe) from anywhere. How would i do it? |
| 20:19.24 | Randor | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.58 | kergoth | neat, check out the examples on http://luacheia.lua-users.org/doc/fuzzy.html |
| 20:20.21 | Randor | oh.. fireshow in svn isn't the latest version rowne made |
| 20:20.27 | Randor | or am i doin' something wrong? |
| 20:20.41 | Industrial | kergoth: thats cool |
| 20:20.58 | Industrial | kergoth: reminds me of googles' "did you mean" |
| 20:21.02 | kergoth | yeah, exactly |
| 20:22.38 | Tem | Randor: what do you mean? |
| 20:22.38 | Tain | heh ok, the "secret project" I've been working on will be released momentarily. |
| 20:22.38 | Randor | i mean that fireshow in svn is with many globals, fireshow in the latest version rowne made only had one global |
| 20:22.44 | Tem | bah |
| 20:22.54 | Industrial | Tain: what does it adress, may we please know that? |
| 20:23.32 | Tain | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2262 |
| 20:24.00 | kergoth | neat |
| 20:25.03 | Tem | Randor: the version at the SVN is more recent than the one in the Addon secion |
| 20:25.10 | Tain | I didn't want to disappoint him that half of the graphics will never get seen by people who disable the main bar, use different target frames, etc. |
| 20:25.21 | Tem | Tain: You are "T.King" ? |
| 20:25.31 | Tain | No, I am not. |
| 20:25.36 | Tain | He's been doing graphics for years. |
| 20:25.58 | Tain | I was just figuring out how to get them in game without breaking any other addons. |
| 20:26.01 | Tem | oh I see now |
| 20:26.37 | Tain | Which I did, but not how I really wanted to. |
| 20:26.49 | kergoth | Tem: did you see rici's patch that adds an __pairs metamethod to the lua core? |
| 20:26.58 | kergoth | Tem: it also adds an iterator for strings. |
| 20:26.58 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:27.08 | Industrial | Tain: so leeeeeet @ link |
| 20:27.14 | Tain | I still want to test ways to substitute frames for my own but keep the names the same so people can reference them. |
| 20:28.23 | Tem | cool |
| 20:29.06 | kergoth | thoguh i suppose you could do it with a gfind.. wonder how bad the perf would be |
| 20:31.44 | Tem | Tain: do you know what his next project will be? |
| 20:32.21 | Tain | I believe continuing to update the Undead one first, this was a very short time frame rush to get it out for Halloween. |
| 20:32.36 | Tain | But he said he has I think at least a couple more ideas for total WoW conversions. |
| 20:32.50 | Tem | yeah I think I'll use if for a while, but I don't see myself keeping very long after halloween |
| 20:33.08 | Tain | Which given more time I can explain more about how addons work, and how to work together with them. |
| 20:33.26 | kergoth | i might use it. i like the undead more than the other races |
| 20:33.27 | Tain | He and the other person had never even seen WoW before about 3 weeks ago. |
| 20:33.37 | Tem | oh |
| 20:33.41 | Tem | wow |
| 20:33.49 | Tem | How did you code the replacements? |
| 20:34.00 | Tain | But King has been doing EQ interface updates for a few years. |
| 20:34.43 | Tain | In this case the easiest solution, if not the absolute best (in my opinion.) But there wasn't enough time to thoroughly test. |
| 20:35.02 | Tain | So the graphic files are drop in replacements under World of Warcraft\Data\Interface |
| 20:35.10 | Tain | The game simply loads them instead. |
| 20:35.11 | Tem | ah |
| 20:35.16 | Tem | yeah |
| 20:35.19 | Tem | that's the easiest |
| 20:35.33 | Tain | Now that works fine, but there's never any guarantee about anything under there. |
| 20:36.16 | Tain | So I'm working on better ways to do it as an actual addon, "hooking" the frame.xml files themselves to tell them to load the alternate graphics. |
| 20:37.25 | Tem | oh hell |
| 20:37.48 | Tem | Tain, the replacement method is better |
| 20:38.03 | Tain | Sort of. Yeah I mean it's less risk of breaking anything. |
| 20:38.05 | Tem | because it lets addons that use those textures be skinned too |
| 20:39.17 | Tem | kergoth: there cases with multiple format strings for the same event |
| 20:39.46 | Tem | GENERICPOWERGAIN_SELF = "You gain %d %s."; for "You gain 100 mana." |
| 20:40.16 | Tain | I know Tem. They really would like it as an addon though. Actually, I'm not even entirely sure why, I've explained the issues as best as I could. |
| 20:40.44 | Tain | I figured once they got more familar with how WoW works they'd udnerstand better. |
| 20:40.52 | Tem | and AURAADDEDSELFHELPFUL = "You gain %s." for "You gain Some Buff" |
| 20:41.13 | Tem | are both used to for the event CHAT_MSG_SPELL_PERIODIC_SELF_BUFFS |
| 20:45.24 | kergoth | bleh |
| 20:45.32 | kergoth | yeah.. have fun with that table. |
| 20:45.33 | kergoth | ;) |
| 20:53.05 | Tem | omg this sucks |
| 20:53.40 | Tem | I have an idea on what to do about the corner cases |
| 20:53.49 | Tem | but assembling this list is daunting at best |
| 20:55.30 | Industrial | could anyone send me their windows verdana font? |
| 20:55.33 | Industrial | ime is fucked |
| 20:55.42 | Industrial | even in games its shows all noraml text as italics |
| 20:55.43 | Industrial | >:( |
| 20:55.48 | Industrial | s/ime/mine |
| 20:57.24 | Industrial | ah i know whats wrong |
| 20:57.29 | Industrial | i have no verdana normal |
| 20:57.39 | Industrial | i dragged it into my wow folder isntead of copying |
| 20:57.44 | Industrial | so it takes italics instead |
| 20:57.47 | Industrial | do'h! |
| 21:00.31 | Tem | oh hell |
| 21:00.41 | Tem | Don't try to set DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME |
| 21:00.49 | Tem | it borks a lot of things |
| 21:07.11 | Tem | ok in theory my method is easy |
| 21:07.18 | Tem | in practice it's serious PITA |
| 21:08.20 | Tem | I'm going to need to make a small test version that all it does it keep a list of the events it's seen fire |
| 21:08.39 | *** join/##ace Tain (i=Shrubber@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:08.46 | Tem | then give it a few guild mates |
| 21:08.49 | Tain | Damn Internet |
| 21:08.51 | Tain | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=4296 |
| 21:08.52 | Tem | let them run it for a day or se |
| 21:08.53 | Tain | Undead theme is up. |
| 21:08.59 | Tem | so* |
| 21:09.05 | Tem | and collect the data |
| 21:09.12 | Tain | And I'm off. |
| 21:11.29 | Industrial | theme is up? :o |
| 21:11.40 | Industrial | so downloading |
| 21:11.42 | Industrial | me so useh :d |
| 21:18.05 | Industrial | Tain: theres no download link |
| 21:19.34 | Industrial | nvm |
| 21:21.19 | Randor | http://wowadult.luxactor.com/ <= i don't believe it... |
| 21:21.27 | Randor | it's in german.. but you'll understand anyway.. |
| 21:22.50 | Randor | how bored can somebody get? |
| 21:23.10 | Randor | uhm.. wait.. i was supposed to do something important... |
| 21:23.17 | Randor | ah yes.. there's my martini... |
| 21:24.56 | Industrial | Randor: >_> |
| 21:33.24 | *** join/##ace cilo (i=cilo@c-24-127-49-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:35.20 | Randor | wb cilo |
| 21:36.20 | *** join/##ace FranzkAFKa (n=Ethereal@c-24-20-145-155.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 21:42.57 | Stylpe | Randor: Bahahaha! |
| 21:43.15 | Stylpe | Disgustingly funny. |
| 21:44.00 | kergoth | bleh |
| 21:45.04 | Industrial | I need to know something |
| 21:45.09 | Industrial | I want to calculate efficiency |
| 21:45.29 | Industrial | ok and that alt+tab just got me killed |
| 21:45.31 | Industrial | :p |
| 21:46.14 | Industrial | anyway, i want to calculate if nuking a mob with downtime of mana is more efficient then nuking him until hes close, moonfire and meelee him + less downtime of mana with downtime of hp |
| 21:46.19 | Industrial | how would i do it? :. |
| 21:46.21 | Industrial | :>* |
| 21:46.41 | Stylpe | Wand 'em I say. |
| 21:47.19 | Industrial | ya but i want to really know whats better |
| 21:47.33 | Stylpe | I guess you'd just have to time it |
| 21:47.46 | Industrial | and also what mobs give best xp in relation to how hard thay are to kill |
| 21:48.01 | Industrial | :) |
| 21:48.54 | Stylpe | I just generally kill mobs at or just below my level, and don't worry too much about when I level, because I know that I eventually will. |
| 21:49.08 | Industrial | i want to level quickly |
| 21:49.12 | Stylpe | And questing beats grinding anytime |
| 21:49.22 | Industrial | and efficiently beccause i have littel time for wow |
| 21:50.03 | Stylpe | But to answer your question: You'd just have to time it by hand. |
| 21:50.17 | Stylpe | Experiment and collect data |
| 21:50.32 | Industrial | blizzard always manages to make you miss |
| 21:50.36 | Industrial | >:@ |
| 21:50.58 | Stylpe | Although I'd recommend that you try to find some humanoids around your level, because they give you valuable cloth and good coin as well |
| 21:51.11 | Stylpe | Hehe, that always happens =P |
| 21:51.13 | Industrial | im in darnassus and lvl 7 :p |
| 21:51.28 | Industrial | err, telldrassil |
| 21:51.28 | Stylpe | Oh, then quest till you drop. |
| 21:51.59 | Stylpe | Try to do as many quests as you can at once |
| 21:52.01 | Industrial | mhhh but i already did all the quests there once |
| 21:52.11 | Industrial | :p |
| 21:52.22 | Industrial | hey look, same boss |
| 21:52.30 | Industrial | hey look same moon wells with the vials |
| 21:53.00 | Stylpe | Hey look, good xp, and I know how to get it fast since I've done it before |
| 21:53.28 | Industrial | :> |
| 22:00.31 | *** join/##ace Stylp1 (n=Stylpe@15.84-48-162.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:07.42 | Tem | kergoth: This is what I'm doing to figure out what patterns are for which event. http://ace.pastebin.com/412651 |
| 22:09.38 | kergoth | "Player Character AI got mentioned and we very carefully asked to make sure that we had heard correctly. We had. For example, say a character in an MMO gets killed, possibly more than once in a row, by orcs. It would be reasonable for the character to have a fear of orcs, even if the player does not. This situation would be handled by the player character AI, which would influence how the character behaved. Explained that way, th |
| 22:09.39 | kergoth | e concept made sense. " |
| 22:10.52 | kergoth | ah |
| 22:10.57 | kergoth | hmm |
| 22:11.15 | Tem | let a few guildies run it for a few hours |
| 22:11.30 | Tem | and poof magically populated list of events and strings associated with them |
| 22:12.34 | Randor | hm... my cat isn't at home.. nobody i could blame to empty my jar... dammit |
| 22:13.05 | Tem | empty what jar? |
| 22:13.32 | Tem | kergoth: I pulled that list of events from my FireShow settings |
| 22:13.54 | kergoth | hah, cool |
| 22:14.05 | kergoth | Tem: hehe, i'm reading these articles from the gdc... |
| 22:14.13 | kergoth | Tem: one of them talks about the relationship betwen design and ai |
| 22:14.18 | kergoth | and in there, talks about teh tools available |
| 22:14.26 | Tem | LUA got mentioned? |
| 22:14.40 | kergoth | one of which talks about the use of CRC's for semirandom/scattered list traversal |
| 22:14.52 | kergoth | the same way that color stuff works, for gaim's chat :P |
| 22:14.58 | Tem | hah |
| 22:15.36 | kergoth | "// CRC “Random” – Brian Reynolds |
| 22:15.36 | kergoth | / |
| 22:15.36 | kergoth | / Useful for semi-random (scattered) traversal of a list, |
| 22:15.36 | kergoth | / without duplication of any numbers. Useful for spreading |
| 22:15.36 | kergoth | / resources on random maps, or simply scrambling city name |
| 22:15.37 | kergoth | / list, etc. " |
| 22:15.39 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:18.34 | Tem | :) |
| 22:40.55 | Industrial | kergoth, i am 100% sure the right directory is in my path |
| 22:41.02 | Industrial | do i need to logout and in for it to take evvecT? |
| 22:41.06 | Industrial | because cmd does not see it |
| 22:41.21 | Industrial | (when i open a new one, i assume the path is being looked at...) |
| 22:43.46 | Industrial | %SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\bin;C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\80\Tools\BINN;%Labrat Toolkit%;C:\Program Files\lua\bin;C:\Program Files\Vim\vim63 |
| 22:43.47 | Industrial | i dont get it |
| 22:45.39 | Randor | try echo %PATH% in the cmd |
| 22:46.33 | Industrial | echo %PATH% | grep lua |
| 22:46.36 | Industrial | echo %PATH% | grep vim |
| 22:46.36 | Industrial | nothing |
| 22:46.37 | Industrial | :P |
| 22:46.41 | Randor | grep? |
| 22:46.45 | Industrial | :> |
| 22:46.50 | Industrial | labrat toolkit |
| 22:47.06 | Randor | uhmkay... (whats labrat? ;)) |
| 22:47.09 | Industrial | relogging |
| 22:47.11 | Randor | kinda cygwin? |
| 22:47.14 | Industrial | yeah |
| 22:57.14 | kergoth | woo, i'm finally hooking up CIA |
| 22:57.40 | kergoth | i got my MX for kergoth.com pointing at my desktop. now i'll set up a procmail rule to catch the trac notification mails and push them to cia.navi.cx |
| 22:57.46 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:00.04 | kergoth | http://www.katherineinterface.com/isbister_gdc_2004.htm |
| 23:05.41 | Randor | i like the sentence "Research in Japan, Sweden" :D |
| 23:08.53 | kergoth | meh |
| 23:09.00 | kergoth | gmail only lets you grab 500 mails at a time via pop3 |
| 23:09.02 | kergoth | i have 5800 |
| 23:09.04 | kergoth | this is gonna take a while. |
| 23:17.48 | kergoth | down to 2905 mails |
| 23:17.50 | kergoth | getting there. |
| 23:25.00 | *** join/##ace Tain (i=Shrubber@c-66-31-196-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:28.30 | Tain | Hot damn I just got home and I'm tired. |
| 23:50.26 | Tain | ~today |
| 23:50.32 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, monday is when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix |
