| 00:00.51 | g0urra | gnight |
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| 01:05.24 | Dotted | Adys im still level 70, i win? |
| 01:05.44 | Adys | like pcj's mom |
| 01:06.17 | Dotted | she's great btw |
| 01:07.21 | Dotted | off to bed nn |
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| 02:03.36 | pcj | http://cbs13.com/local/dennys.amputation.cocaine.2.807272.html |
| 02:34.37 | *** join/#wowwiki kisatibing (n=fadsf@222.117.241.222) |
| 02:34.46 | kisatibing | hi |
| 02:34.58 | *** join/#wowwiki ANTRat (n=antrat@rrcs-97-76-222-155.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:44.47 | kisatibing | When you come out of anger of the king of the Rich |
| 02:47.30 | kisatibing | Wrath of the Lich King |
| 03:11.11 | *** join/#wowwiki LucidFox (n=inetpers@jabber.hsdnetwork.net) |
| 03:15.00 | LucidFox | Uh... hello? |
| 03:18.03 | pcj | hi lucidfox :) |
| 03:21.05 | LucidFox | What would be the best teens zone for a draenei on an RP server - Bloodmyst, Darkshore, or Westfall? |
| 03:21.51 | pcj | what difference does RP server have to do with leveling |
| 03:22.18 | pcj | i prefer darkshore over bloodmyst in any case |
| 03:22.18 | LucidFox | RP opportunities :) |
| 03:22.24 | LucidFox | No idea, that's why I was asking |
| 03:23.06 | pcj | westfall is probably the best for RP because it's so close to goldshire |
| 04:08.23 | *** join/#wowwiki Vilkku (n=Vilkku@86-60-157-18-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi) |
| 04:46.15 | Adys | http://www.thottbot.com/i16171 |
| 04:46.18 | Adys | wheres that from? |
| 04:55.32 | sancus | looks like something from beta |
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| 06:16.33 | earthmeLon | What the hell |
| 06:16.43 | earthmeLon | When did they fix ghost walking? |
| 06:18.03 | kisatibing | What are you talking about |
| 06:21.57 | kisatibing | #directx |
| 06:22.26 | *** join/#wowwiki Major|Away (i=Major_Sm@gateway/tor/x-831142762d68089f) |
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| 06:29.12 | winkiller | ghost walking? |
| 06:29.17 | Kirkburn | Target dummies in cities, Adys? :D |
| 06:29.23 | Adys | yea |
| 06:29.26 | Adys | sort of |
| 06:29.32 | Adys | the ones like in theramore / shattered halls |
| 06:29.40 | Adys | lvl 1, really nice to test dmg and stuff |
| 06:29.41 | Kirkburn | Cool |
| 06:29.49 | Kirkburn | Odd that SW vaults has lost the gate |
| 06:29.49 | Adys | near the trainers too :) |
| 06:29.59 | Adys | I think they meant to remove the thing entirely |
| 06:30.07 | Adys | because they removed everything behind and put hills |
| 06:30.12 | Adys | well go see by yourself its a bit odd |
| 06:31.08 | Adys | magine a character named doctor with the first aid doctor title, and in the guild Give me the news |
| 06:31.08 | Adys | Doctor Doctor |
| 06:31.08 | Adys | <Give me the news> |
| 06:31.22 | Kirkburn | I mean housing, not vaults |
| 06:31.28 | Kirkburn | Vaults is the island |
| 06:32.08 | Kirkburn | Actually ... which grid /do/ you mean? |
| 06:32.14 | Adys | that one |
| 06:32.20 | Kirkburn | Housing? |
| 06:32.26 | Adys | probably |
| 06:32.35 | Adys | they never actually said what they meant to do with it |
| 06:35.57 | *** join/#wowwiki Major_Small (i=Major_Sm@gateway/tor/x-b760dee0fe5f119f) |
| 06:41.50 | winkiller | Adys: I find my Rogue with that title a little more disturbing |
| 06:42.11 | Adys | which? |
| 06:42.15 | winkiller | Doctor |
| 06:42.24 | Adys | oh |
| 06:42.33 | winkiller | and anyone got an idea if the first NE druid will have Arch Druid, (tree lover) and (first 80) all 3? |
| 06:42.46 | winkiller | as in.. so many titles, but the first to 80 will get 3 of them |
| 06:42.56 | Adys | tree lover wut? |
| 06:43.05 | winkiller | first NE to 80, whatever it's called |
| 06:43.10 | Adys | ah |
| 06:43.11 | Adys | yea |
| 06:43.14 | winkiller | the titles overlap |
| 06:43.16 | winkiller | which sucks |
| 06:43.17 | Adys | id guess tho |
| 06:43.59 | winkiller | so if you'r unlucky on your realm 5-7 people share all titles |
| 06:45.04 | winkiller | well, ok - one per race. and all class titles are moot |
| 06:45.25 | winkiller | so I have to level my troll first, as there are fewest of those :P |
| 06:46.43 | Adys | human mage here |
| 06:46.48 | Adys | gonna have a fun time :/ |
| 06:46.52 | winkiller | sowwy |
| 06:51.22 | *** part/#wowwiki ANTRat (n=antrat@rrcs-97-76-222-155.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 06:57.55 | kisatibing | ah ghost walking |
| 06:59.05 | kisatibing | shadowstep bug? |
| 06:59.12 | Adys | ? |
| 06:59.40 | winkiller | http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ1st1Vw2kY |
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| 07:32.32 | Kirochi | Hello w0rld |
| 07:33.45 | Kirochi | Ackis what's your death knight's name? |
| 07:52.18 | winkiller | Pinkfluffybunny probably |
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| 08:45.41 | g0urra | 'morning |
| 08:45.56 | sacarasc | hi |
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| 09:13.13 | Fisker- | slaps g0urra around a bit with a large trout |
| 09:16.15 | *** join/#wowwiki Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
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| 09:55.01 | *** join/#wowwiki Reign[A] (n=reign@212.47.107.29) |
| 09:57.02 | Reign[A] | hello, maybe someone already had this issue, ive tried BC trial, it expired and now i wanna buy it online just as i did with WoW, but the only option ive got is to write down the key i have on retail box, problem is i dont wanna any boxes and just wanna pay to blizzard and play, now ive red that such option is possible and that when my BC trial would expire, i should get an option to pay directly from an account management site, but somehow i cant, any ide |
| 10:01.53 | mxs | Reign[A]: this would be something you should take up with Blizzard support or their billing department |
| 10:02.08 | Reign[A] | k, thnx |
| 10:06.19 | Kirkburn | Morning |
| 10:06.46 | Fisker- | slaps Kirkburn around a bit with a large trout |
| 10:07.13 | Fisker- | i need to play spore |
| 10:07.15 | Fisker- | giev and get |
| 10:11.51 | Kirochi | Is my time relevant? |
| 10:11.58 | Kirochi | I say, ugt is so out of fashion |
| 10:12.51 | Fisker- | someone deleted ~uft :( |
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| 10:15.34 | *** join/#wowwiki WyriHaximus (n=jezussie@i131220.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 10:15.59 | g0urra | why so world server crash Fisker- |
| 10:16.08 | Fisker- | dunno |
| 10:16.11 | Fisker- | why so free mass effect? |
| 10:17.31 | Fisker- | it was kinda >:3 actually |
| 10:17.44 | Fisker- | Bought Mass Effect through the US EA Store |
| 10:17.53 | Fisker- | because why so regionfags EA? |
| 10:18.12 | Fisker- | But i obviously ordered it as someone living in fake st. 123 beverly hills |
| 10:18.24 | Fisker- | so they actually removed my game a couple of days after |
| 10:18.38 | Fisker- | But they never withdrew any money, and i still got the cd-key >:3 |
| 10:18.56 | g0urra | Fisker- |
| 10:19.06 | g0urra | are you getting $308 within 10 minutes |
| 10:19.15 | Fisker- | why? |
| 10:19.22 | g0urra | just wondering |
| 10:19.24 | g0urra | 'cause I am >:3 |
| 10:20.08 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:25.13 | Fisker- | I WANT TO PLAY SPORE G0URRA |
| 10:25.20 | Fisker- | why so $308 btw? |
| 10:25.47 | g0urra | because of taxes |
| 10:25.48 | g0urra | >:3 |
| 10:25.56 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:26.04 | Fisker- | that means you aren't getting $308 then |
| 10:26.14 | g0urra | yes |
| 10:26.15 | g0urra | I am |
| 10:26.17 | Fisker- | nah |
| 10:26.20 | g0urra | yes me |
| 10:26.21 | g0urra | not u |
| 10:26.25 | Fisker- | You lended your government $308 for free |
| 10:26.26 | Fisker- | good job |
| 10:26.35 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Fisker-!n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se] by g0urra (no u) |
| 10:26.37 | *** join/#wowwiki Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 10:26.39 | Fisker- | O |
| 10:26.39 | Fisker- | W |
| 10:26.39 | Fisker- | N |
| 10:26.40 | Fisker- | E |
| 10:26.40 | Fisker- | D |
| 10:26.53 | g0urra | ur mom is owned |
| 10:28.22 | Fisker- | if only i had spore :( |
| 10:28.25 | Fisker- | has cd-key |
| 10:28.27 | Fisker- | do not has game |
| 10:28.28 | Fisker- | :( |
| 10:29.03 | g0urra | O |
| 10:29.03 | g0urra | W |
| 10:29.04 | g0urra | N |
| 10:29.05 | g0urra | E |
| 10:29.05 | g0urra | D |
| 10:29.17 | Fisker- | not as much as you are though |
| 10:29.25 | g0urra | >:3? |
| 10:29.48 | Fisker- | you know what i mean |
| 10:29.49 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:31.02 | Fisker- | there's probably a store that's selling spore |
| 10:31.07 | Fisker- | go find it g0urra |
| 10:31.12 | g0urra | no |
| 10:31.13 | g0urra | u |
| 10:31.43 | mxs | I have plenty of spores. |
| 10:31.51 | mxs | you are all allergic, though. |
| 10:31.51 | Fisker- | pretty weird that the EU launch is actually prior to the US launch |
| 10:31.56 | Fisker- | EA owned themselves |
| 10:32.02 | Fisker- | We especially owned |
| 10:32.18 | Fisker- | Since EA scandinavia releases their games on a thursday instead of a friday |
| 10:32.25 | Fisker- | so we're a day ahead of the EU launch |
| 10:32.26 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:32.31 | mxs | no, it's their subconscious mind. They really, really want Sporte to be pirated. |
| 10:32.37 | Fisker- | Sporte? :o |
| 10:32.48 | Fisker- | besides it's not going to be cracked anyways |
| 10:32.48 | mxs | it's like Spore, but French |
| 10:32.53 | mxs | of course it is |
| 10:32.58 | Fisker- | not before launch |
| 10:33.03 | *** join/#wowwiki latti (n=d41ccfc2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-c6e881bf5e93584f) |
| 10:33.09 | mxs | is that some kind of challenge to the crackers ? |
| 10:33.15 | Fisker- | sure |
| 10:35.00 | mxs | I'd be surprised if it took the top people more than a few hours to crack it |
| 10:35.29 | mxs | and there are some crazy people in Scandinavia :P |
| 10:35.45 | g0urra | what do you mean |
| 10:35.45 | g0urra | >:3 |
| 10:36.08 | Fisker- | mxs well Mass Effect uses the same protection |
| 10:36.16 | Fisker- | That was 3 months ago |
| 10:36.19 | Fisker- | Still not cracked |
| 10:37.53 | *** join/#wowwiki latti (n=d41ccfc2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-adaf505d2023c4ec) |
| 10:40.21 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:40.51 | Fisker- | i r invincible |
| 10:41.57 | g0urra | ololol gg bibi |
| 10:42.07 | g0urra | "Quests were added on the developper's island..." |
| 10:42.20 | Fisker- | >:3? |
| 10:43.32 | g0urra | developer's island |
| 10:43.33 | g0urra | gg |
| 10:43.50 | g0urra | HAY BLIZZ IM ON UR ISLAND DATAMININ UR DATAZ |
| 10:44.04 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 10:44.34 | g0urra | olol gg game |
| 10:44.40 | g0urra | I'm exalted with the oracles |
| 10:44.41 | Fisker- | good game game? |
| 10:44.47 | Fisker- | i'm exalted with your mom |
| 10:45.02 | g0urra | wat |
| 10:45.30 | Fisker- | i did the daily |
| 10:45.40 | Fisker- | and it only takes 2 minutes |
| 10:45.45 | Kirochi | why so swedish g0urra |
| 10:46.02 | Fisker- | why so trollish Kirochi? |
| 10:46.13 | Kirochi | jag är man som älskar mus |
| 10:46.13 | g0urra | why so Kirochi troll |
| 10:48.48 | Fisker- | beep beep i'm an alarm clock |
| 10:48.49 | Fisker- | 1-0 g0urra |
| 10:51.40 | Adys | http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/august/wormhole.jpg |
| 10:51.45 | Adys | Any engineer can wormhole me plox |
| 10:52.56 | g0urra | I'll put a worm in your hole |
| 10:53.29 | Adys | stfu and go lvl noob |
| 10:54.25 | g0urra | HOW |
| 10:54.29 | g0urra | THERE ARE NO QUESTS |
| 10:54.35 | g0urra | STORM PEAKS IS CLOSED |
| 10:54.39 | g0urra | >:I |
| 10:55.52 | Kalroth | l2grind |
| 10:57.11 | g0urra | i grinded ur mom |
| 10:57.25 | g0urra | the rewards weren't worth it |
| 10:57.46 | Kalroth | I could have told you that |
| 10:57.53 | g0urra | dude |
| 10:57.54 | g0urra | ew |
| 10:58.04 | Kalroth | hey, you opened for it |
| 10:58.16 | *** part/#wowwiki g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se) |
| 10:58.24 | Kalroth | woot |
| 10:58.31 | winkiller | 1:0 |
| 10:58.57 | Kalroth | Adys: was that a legit victory? |
| 11:03.56 | Adys | nop. |
| 11:15.17 | *** part/#wowwiki LucidFox (n=inetpers@jabber.hsdnetwork.net) |
| 11:44.18 | mxs | Fisker-: uhm ... Check your sources. |
| 11:44.32 | mxs | Fisker-: even a cursory search of usenet provides a crack for Mass effect. |
| 11:47.51 | mxs | release date was may 28, the entire thing hit usenet, cracked, on May 30 (by two separate groups), and by several other groups over the course of the next 1-2 weeks. So yeah, no, it is not "uncracked". :) |
| 11:58.49 | Fisker- | mxs check your sources |
| 11:59.05 | Fisker- | No scene released crack successfully removed the activation and had the game playable |
| 11:59.27 | Fisker- | The initial release and subsequent crackfixes all bugged the game |
| 11:59.40 | Fisker- | The initial release made you unable to progress after an hour or so of play |
| 12:00.21 | Fisker- | The crackfixes also had the same problem, but not as bad, however weapons would never lose overheating |
| 12:12.04 | winkiller | maybe it was so bad no one really bothered? :P |
| 12:18.55 | Fisker- | the game was pretty good |
| 12:19.04 | Fisker- | but games don't cracked because they are bad or good |
| 12:19.10 | Fisker- | they get cracked because it's a competition |
| 12:20.22 | Fisker- | oh and Alone in the Dark also have a similar protection |
| 12:20.27 | Fisker- | that has also not been cracked |
| 12:20.56 | Fisker- | not by any scene and the release is a homemade workaround not a crack |
| 12:23.01 | *** join/#wowwiki pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 12:24.23 | Fisker- | is victorious etc. |
| 12:24.30 | Kirkburn | show off |
| 12:25.51 | Fisker- | Well this new protection will only serve to ultimately prove that whether or not we can download the game, doesn't mean we'll buy it |
| 12:26.04 | Fisker- | though i guess they already know |
| 12:26.12 | *** join/#wowwiki pb_ee1 (n=nospam@meilleu015869-2.clients.easynet.fr) |
| 12:26.29 | Fisker- | They're only using the protection on those titles they know will be popular and sell |
| 12:30.34 | mxs | Fisker-: you are almost tempting me to download all those releases and try them out in a sandbox |
| 12:30.50 | mxs | and then buy the game and try to get it to do the same crap on a legitimate machine |
| 12:30.52 | Kirkburn | Btw, yes, the Mass Effect crack is broken |
| 12:31.06 | Kirkburn | Not that I was looking it up yesterday |
| 12:31.19 | mxs | hehe :) |
| 12:31.34 | Fisker- | http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/29/michael-phelps-call-of-duty-early/ <-that's just low |
| 12:31.38 | mxs | so what you're saying is I need a modded xbox360 to play the cracked game ? :> |
| 12:31.42 | Kirkburn | At least, that's what I saw on the torrent threads ... I'm probably gonna buy it |
| 12:32.07 | Kirkburn | (I thought we were talking about the PC version) |
| 12:32.12 | mxs | I'm probably not gonna buy it. I don't believe in crap-DRM like that, and will be damned if I support it. |
| 12:32.22 | Fisker- | Well i didn't buy it either |
| 12:32.25 | Fisker- | i got it for free from EA |
| 12:32.26 | Fisker- | :D |
| 12:32.32 | Fisker- | "free" |
| 12:32.45 | mxs | Fisker-: even for free they can kiss my (considerable) behind |
| 12:32.55 | *** join/#wowwiki Chompers (n=Chompers@cpc1-cove9-0-0-cust541.brhm.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:33.09 | Fisker- | Not gonna pass up good games just because of the protection, well perhaps besides Starforce |
| 12:33.33 | mxs | CD-key check when playing online (same exact system in use by Q3A, say) is as far as I will go (that is, if the gameserver can reach the keyserver, so should the client have to) |
| 12:33.50 | mxs | Fisker-: I have passed up plenty of games that are supposedly good for that very reason |
| 12:34.04 | mxs | I was about to plonk down the dough for HL2 on release day, for instance |
| 12:34.42 | Fisker- | I think Valve's DRM is pretty good |
| 12:34.57 | mxs | just as well I read beforehand how their system works, and had opportunity to get fucked over by it first hand (at a lanparty for 2000 people, in charge of internet connectivity) |
| 12:35.05 | mxs | it's beyond bad, quite honestly |
| 12:35.20 | mxs | you can't even put up a cache server for their content |
| 12:35.36 | mxs | well, correction, they DO have soemthing that works for one class C subnet and needs a real beefy machine for 20-30 clients |
| 12:35.42 | mxs | if you ask |
| 12:35.45 | mxs | and beg |
| 12:35.48 | mxs | made for internet cafes |
| 12:36.02 | winkiller | DRM is shit, just make it a one-time cd key like wow or even starcraft |
| 12:36.08 | winkiller | problem solved |
| 12:36.17 | winkiller | i.e. account versus media |
| 12:36.17 | mxs | entirely useless for a lanparty with a couple dozen or even hundred subnets which would like to use 50 servers for hosting games, not patches |
| 12:36.22 | winkiller | media-based DRM is fail |
| 12:36.32 | mxs | winkiller: yes, it is. |
| 12:36.45 | Kirkburn | Mass Effect/Spore aren't media based |
| 12:36.46 | winkiller | wishes back the old times |
| 12:36.50 | Fisker- | Internet is a media |
| 12:36.53 | mxs | Kirkburn: they are media based, as well |
| 12:37.00 | mxs | Fisker-: no, not in that sense, and you know it |
| 12:37.02 | Kirkburn | You don't need the DVD in the drive |
| 12:37.09 | Kirkburn | And I'm talking about the PC version |
| 12:37.11 | Fisker- | You need a connection though |
| 12:37.15 | mxs | as for Valve and Steam : There is absolutely no reason I should have to LOG IN to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. |
| 12:37.22 | Fisker- | You don't have to |
| 12:37.25 | Fisker- | You can play offline |
| 12:37.26 | Kirkburn | ^ |
| 12:37.30 | mxs | There is no reason I should have to let steam know I want to play a game offline before I do |
| 12:37.34 | mxs | no, you can't |
| 12:37.37 | Fisker- | yes |
| 12:37.38 | mxs | you have to properly log out first |
| 12:37.42 | Fisker- | of course |
| 12:37.49 | Kirkburn | You can start in offline mode |
| 12:37.51 | mxs | what do you mean, of course ? |
| 12:37.56 | Fisker- | But it will still work offline even in online mode |
| 12:37.58 | mxs | Kirkburn: oh, without an internet connection ? |
| 12:38.02 | Kirkburn | Yes |
| 12:38.12 | mxs | Kirkburn: then either they changed that, or you are wrong :P |
| 12:38.12 | Kirkburn | It asks you if you want to play in offline mode if you are offline |
| 12:38.23 | Fisker- | If you lose your internet connection while in "online mode" your games will still work, but when you restart steam it will ask you to start in offline mode |
| 12:38.23 | Kirkburn | Then they changed it? |
| 12:38.35 | Kirkburn | I know it was different around the time of HL2, but it changed a long time ago |
| 12:38.59 | mxs | Kirkburn: I never looked back, a company that intent on fucking me in the ass (pardon my French) does not deserve to get a second look. |
| 12:39.01 | winkiller | that's what I call shit as well |
| 12:39.17 | mxs | the other power they still wield is account bans |
| 12:39.22 | winkiller | mxs: you're saying that as if anal sex was something bad |
| 12:39.26 | Fisker- | Offline mode still worked back in the HL2 times |
| 12:39.28 | mxs | i.e. your games will stop working if your account get banned, without any refunds |
| 12:39.32 | winkiller | I bet many people feel insulted now |
| 12:39.34 | Fisker- | But there were some time limits i believe |
| 12:39.42 | Kirkburn | Yeah, it was a little weird |
| 12:39.42 | mxs | winkiller: it ain't, if it's between consenting adults. |
| 12:39.43 | winkiller | "HL2 times" lol |
| 12:39.53 | winkiller | Diablo, quake2 |
| 12:39.57 | winkiller | DRM my ass |
| 12:40.07 | winkiller | HoMM3 |
| 12:40.10 | Fisker- | You never buy a game, you buy a license to use it |
| 12:40.13 | winkiller | that were brilliant games |
| 12:40.25 | mxs | Fisker-: and it is unreasonable beyond belief. As said, I would have bought the game and further games beyond that, but they can kiss my ass. I'd sooner pirate their games than buy them. |
| 12:40.29 | Fisker- | If you get banned in any other game it doesn't entitle you to a refund either |
| 12:40.35 | mxs | Fisker-: bullshit. |
| 12:40.45 | winkiller | "Do you want to start Notepad.exe in offline mode? Y/N/Cancel" |
| 12:40.48 | mxs | Fisker-: maybe the US has weak customer protection laws |
| 12:40.59 | mxs | in any case, if you buy 50 games on Steam and they ban your account |
| 12:41.04 | mxs | you lose access to all those 50 games |
| 12:41.09 | Fisker- | They don't just ban your account |
| 12:41.10 | mxs | without refund, and without accountability |
| 12:41.12 | winkiller | Fisker-: nono, banned =~ terms of use that you accepted |
| 12:41.15 | mxs | you signed away and and all rights |
| 12:41.22 | Fisker- | They only ban your account if you comitted fraud or otherwise broke the terms |
| 12:41.26 | mxs | they reserve the right to disable your account for any reason at all, stated or unstated |
| 12:41.30 | winkiller | Fisker-: by "buying" a box of offline game you sign no thing at all |
| 12:41.30 | Fisker- | And i don't live in the US |
| 12:41.38 | Fisker- | you do winkiller |
| 12:41.40 | mxs | Fisker-: look, I don't care what they say as to WHEN they will ban the account |
| 12:41.46 | mxs | my point is that they should not have that power, at all |
| 12:41.47 | Fisker- | read all the steps when installing the game |
| 12:41.51 | mxs | they can ban in their online system, sure |
| 12:42.02 | mxs | but they should not be able to restrict access to the games I bought. |
| 12:42.03 | Fisker- | those pretty words you sometime have to scroll to the bottom of, they're called an "EULA" |
| 12:42.18 | mxs | EULA are unenforcable in most parts of Europe |
| 12:42.21 | Fisker- | VAC bans do not remove your access to the account |
| 12:42.26 | Kirkburn | Hrm, if you performed credit card fraud, why do they not have the right to revoke your access to the games? |
| 12:42.28 | mxs | but that's beside the point, gamers would believe anything. |
| 12:42.39 | mxs | Fisker-: no, it does not. That is fine. Account bans, however, do. |
| 12:42.46 | Fisker- | If you get banned for cheating all that happens is that VAC enabled titles remove your online capabilities |
| 12:42.56 | Fisker- | account bans are only used when you cheat them of their money |
| 12:43.08 | Fisker- | "Oh noes i didn't pay for my games, and they have the nerve to remove them" |
| 12:43.10 | Fisker- | those bastards |
| 12:43.15 | Fisker- | Or if you hack the account of course |
| 12:43.21 | mxs | Kirkburn: my point is that they should not have the power to revoke access to my games that I legally bought and paid for, unaccountably, without any stated reason at all |
| 12:43.26 | Fisker- | But then it rather gets restored to the original owner |
| 12:43.34 | mxs | NO MATTER whether they only claim to do it in case X or Y |
| 12:43.49 | mxs | you are not understanding the premise here |
| 12:43.53 | Fisker- | Which is no different than what is being done in WoW |
| 12:43.55 | Kirkburn | mxs, fair enough - it's more about the theoretical limits of their power |
| 12:43.59 | mxs | I am not assuming that fraud has taken place |
| 12:44.06 | mxs | I am taking issue with the fact that they can disable it at all. |
| 12:44.22 | mxs | Fisker-: WoW is quite a bit different than a single-player game |
| 12:44.23 | Fisker- | Well in that case good luck playing no games |
| 12:44.29 | Fisker- | Because those terms apply everywhere |
| 12:44.33 | mxs | Fisker-: no, they do not. |
| 12:44.34 | Fisker- | pretty much |
| 12:44.36 | Fisker- | yes they do |
| 12:44.38 | mxs | I can install Diablo 2, right now. |
| 12:44.39 | winkiller | Games are coming to THAT extent that commercial software had 10 years ago |
| 12:44.43 | mxs | I don't even need a valid CD key. |
| 12:44.47 | winkiller | I bet 2009 will have hardware dongles... |
| 12:44.50 | mxs | No matter whether Blizzard likes it, or not. |
| 12:44.50 | Fisker- | you do |
| 12:44.57 | mxs | no, I can just use a keygen. |
| 12:45.03 | Fisker- | Then you have a "valid" cd-key |
| 12:45.19 | mxs | (and before you say anything, I have the retail box right here -- my point is that I can install and play the game, right now, even if Blizzard decided it did not like me. |
| 12:46.03 | mxs | it's a subtle difference, but it is there, and I have no desire to give that power to Valve |
| 12:46.08 | mxs | for no reason whatsoever, mind you |
| 12:46.10 | Fisker- | That may be |
| 12:46.14 | mxs | pirates are not affected by it, at all |
| 12:46.20 | Fisker- | But in both cases you are accepting similar terms |
| 12:46.28 | Fisker- | You are in breach of your terms by using an invalid key |
| 12:46.29 | mxs | or do you know ANY Steam-game that you cannot get a pirated version of ? |
| 12:46.34 | Fisker- | You are not allowed to play the game |
| 12:46.40 | winkiller | last game I bought was wow-TBC, take that DRM-infested game industry |
| 12:46.43 | mxs | Fisker-: as I ALREADY said, EULAs are unenforcable. |
| 12:46.47 | winkiller | and before that wow classic |
| 12:47.02 | *** join/#wowwiki Schnoobby (n=MirandaM@wrzb-590de152.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 12:47.12 | Fisker- | mxs they are not uninforcable per definition |
| 12:47.13 | Fisker- | so no |
| 12:47.15 | winkiller | (apart from Grandia2 and HoMM as 3EUR-versions) |
| 12:47.18 | mxs | Fisker-: many rights you cannot sign away. Hell, most EULAs will prohibit reselling your game. |
| 12:47.29 | mxs | Fisker-: sorry, but if you believe that, you are sorely mistaken. |
| 12:47.33 | Fisker- | I am not |
| 12:47.51 | mxs | Fisker-: if I go to the store, buy Mass Effect right now, shrinkwrapped, and get the EULA on my screen after I bought it, it is unenforcable. |
| 12:47.57 | mxs | in my jurisdiction, anyway |
| 12:48.05 | Fisker- | perhaps |
| 12:48.07 | mxs | most gamers will believe it is enforcable, but it is not. |
| 12:48.16 | Fisker- | EULA's are not unenforcable per definition though |
| 12:48.23 | mxs | it's beside the point, since few people will sue over a $50 game. |
| 12:48.36 | Fisker- | Yes so infact you do not know |
| 12:48.42 | Fisker- | because no legal precendent has EVER been set |
| 12:48.43 | mxs | Fisker-: in the US they may not be. |
| 12:48.52 | mxs | actually, legal precedent has been set |
| 12:49.02 | mxs | the problem with, say, German law is, is that there is no precedent case law. |
| 12:49.12 | Fisker- | Again that is totally dependant on the EULA in question |
| 12:49.18 | mxs | so "precedent" is meaningless. |
| 12:49.39 | Fisker- | For example you believe you can return the game after having installed it, but already most countries prohibit this, IN LINE with the EULA's |
| 12:50.06 | Fisker- | in the UK you are not allowed to return a game after the sealing has been broken for example |
| 12:50.08 | winkiller | last I checked the shops don't allow it |
| 12:50.10 | mxs | Fisker-: not really. I stated my case (shrinkwrap-license). A skilled lawyer can state many other cases that will erode any and all of what an EULA will say (up to and including the fact that a "click" does not necessarily signify consent or a signature) |
| 12:50.17 | winkiller | nothing to do with EULA |
| 12:50.51 | mxs | Fisker-: sorry Fisker-, but you are also wrong in that case. Well, I have no idea what UK law says on the matter, I do know what German law will say on the matter |
| 12:51.10 | Fisker- | I don't know what the german law states, but i know what the UK law states |
| 12:51.10 | mxs | many shops will claim it is not allowed |
| 12:51.25 | Fisker- | I know |
| 12:51.46 | winkiller | calls out anarchy |
| 12:51.50 | mxs | in any case, any DECENT shop will honor returns with decent reasons (for fear of losing a long-term customer) |
| 12:52.14 | mxs | and any mail-order shop BETTER take back the game, or they will actually be hurting in court. |
| 12:52.35 | winkiller | oh wow, never had the idea witrh mailorder shops :P |
| 12:52.51 | winkiller | think I never ever had something taken back except cloths |
| 12:52.54 | winkiller | *clothes |
| 12:53.03 | winkiller | because.. I only buy stuff I want |
| 12:53.12 | mxs | But it is beside the point, anyway. If a company wants to anally rape me for buying their game, they can go fuck themselves. |
| 12:53.19 | mxs | I have other things to spend my money on. |
| 12:54.14 | Fisker- | Companies don't want to anally rape you for buying their game |
| 12:54.41 | mxs | Thus steam will never be installed on this computer, and I will never pay money for an iTunes song. If the draconian (and unnecessary) DRM is removed from Steam and they actually focus on making me, as a customer, happy, that may change. Once iTunes gives me lossless DRM-less tracks, that may change. |
| 12:54.43 | Kirochi | World of Theorycraft's new expansion : |
| 12:54.53 | mxs | Until then, Magnatune.com gets my money for music, and any artist I see in concert. |
| 12:54.55 | Kirochi | The WoWwiki crusade for walls of tect |
| 12:54.55 | Fisker- | Steam isn't Draconian |
| 12:54.57 | Kirochi | text |
| 12:55.07 | Fisker- | It is actually one of the least draconian DRM systems on the market now |
| 12:55.34 | Fisker- | Impulse might be slightly better though i don't know personally, only given by their own statements |
| 12:56.06 | mxs | Fisker-: sorry, but yes, they do want to perform that act on my anus. If I'm generally treated as a criminal after buying their game, having to prove I am not, having to constantly keep proving I am not, then that is the impression I am left with. By all means, crack down on the people that actually infringe on your copyright, but I am not one of them in that case. |
| 12:56.29 | mxs | as for draconicity of DRM : Sorry, I disagree. |
| 12:56.34 | Fisker- | I don't see how you are treated as a criminal |
| 12:56.37 | mxs | but that's just my opinion:) |
| 12:56.46 | mxs | oh, what is DRM then ? |
| 12:56.57 | mxs | It IS assuming I am a criminal, that is why it is there. |
| 12:57.20 | mxs | If you were to treat me as a valued customer, I would not have to deal with the utter piece of shit that is DRM, and the many restrictions it brings. |
| 12:57.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@host-VLCH2x-89.dhcp.stevens-tech.edu) |
| 12:57.41 | mxs | (and, by the way, pirates don't have to deal with it, either= |
| 12:57.41 | Fisker- | I still don't see how it treats you as a criminal |
| 12:57.50 | mxs | Fisker-: then you don't understand my mindset. |
| 12:57.56 | Fisker- | No i don't |
| 12:58.08 | Fisker- | Because DRM or not, it would not change Steam THE SLIGHTEST |
| 12:58.17 | Fisker- | the only thing that would change is stuff you cannot see or observe anyways |
| 12:58.28 | mxs | oh, like the offline mode. |
| 12:58.36 | mxs | or the automatic preloads they had around HL2-time. |
| 12:59.11 | mxs | Or the mandatory login for counterstrike if you want to play on lanparties, in RFC1918-space (don't say it doesn't happen, it did, maybe they fixed those bugs now -- but they should not have been there in the first place) |
| 12:59.17 | Fisker- | I do not see how giving you a service is called "treating you as a criminal" |
| 12:59.22 | mxs | Or the reauthorization of my new PC because my old one blew up |
| 12:59.39 | Fisker- | You won't even have the game if your old pc blew up |
| 12:59.42 | mxs | Fisker-: we are talking about the DRM, not Steam as a service |
| 12:59.52 | mxs | oh, so I could have backed it up on CD ? |
| 12:59.56 | mxs | and it will install from that CD ? |
| 13:00.02 | mxs | err wait, no, it won't. |
| 13:00.14 | mxs | hell, you can't even install HL2 without an internet connection. |
| 13:00.19 | mxs | A single-player game, mind you. |
| 13:00.23 | Fisker- | Which is stated when you buy it |
| 13:00.24 | mxs | from a box. |
| 13:00.33 | Fisker- | You need a single internet connection, and you can backup your games |
| 13:00.42 | mxs | yes, and it is a rather sizable, counter-intuitive restriction when you go to the store an buy a fucking box. |
| 13:01.26 | mxs | you also need to re-authorize your account. But all this discussion is beside the point. It is DRM, it restricts what I can do. The reason it does that is that it assumes I will do criminal stuff if it was not there. |
| 13:01.36 | Fisker- | Perhaps |
| 13:01.36 | mxs | (or not criminal, but just stuff the company does not like) |
| 13:01.44 | mxs | there is no other reason for it being there |
| 13:01.44 | Fisker- | but it restricts you less than any other DRM used today |
| 13:01.52 | mxs | therefore, I am being treated as a criminal until proven otherwise |
| 13:01.56 | mxs | that is not an argument |
| 13:01.57 | Fisker- | No you're not |
| 13:02.29 | mxs | of course I am. If the company in question were to not treat me as a criminal until proven otherwise, I would not have to jump through DRM hoops. |
| 13:02.42 | mxs | And, by the way, the actual infringers do not have to jump through those hoops. |
| 13:02.54 | Fisker- | Actually they do |
| 13:02.55 | mxs | You can install the pirated copy of HL2 without those hoops. |
| 13:02.58 | mxs | no, they don't. |
| 13:03.06 | mxs | I don't need an internet connection to install HL2, pirated. |
| 13:03.24 | Fisker- | Just like Mass Effect, HL2 was severely bugged when cracked |
| 13:03.37 | Fisker- | So what they do now is actually some kind of emulation of the DRM rather than bypassing it |
| 13:03.45 | mxs | which has since been fixed. Oh, and HL2 was also severely when it thought it was cracked, but wasn't. |
| 13:04.05 | Fisker- | HL2 didn't think it was cracked when it wasn't |
| 13:04.14 | mxs | yeah, they try to virtualize the responses a real drive would give within an image, I know the process. |
| 13:04.35 | Fisker- | That is a cloned cd |
| 13:04.48 | Fisker- | or wait you mean a VM |
| 13:04.51 | mxs | Fisker-: ah, so it allowed itself to be run while BlackIce was running, and worked the same way it would have otherwise ? |
| 13:04.51 | Fisker- | that isn't a crack either |
| 13:05.30 | mxs | well, it' what daemontools does. And as for what constitutes a crack, don't be narrowminded. I would define it as anything that bypasses the need for original media, successfully. |
| 13:06.00 | Fisker- | What is a crack wasn't the discussion anyways |
| 13:06.14 | mxs | in Lemmings that would mean to create file with some interesting attributes on the floppy disk in question, in Diablo 2 it would mean a crack in a dll, and in many Securom-games it means using DaemonTools or the like :) |
| 13:06.18 | mxs | true |
| 13:06.56 | Fisker- | But again Steam isn't apparently treating you like a criminal |
| 13:07.13 | Fisker- | If you did not know there was DRM you would not know it was there at all |
| 13:07.27 | mxs | I regard any form of DRM imposed on me as the implicit accusation that I would do unlawful things (or things the provider did not like, however lawful they may be). I don't deal with companies that, off the bat, call me a criminal liar. |
| 13:07.30 | Kirochi | Fisker- sucks bad |
| 13:07.31 | Fisker- | You are accessing an online service, and the same part that accesses that service also acts like DRM |
| 13:07.48 | mxs | Fisker-: that is only part of the story, and you KNOW it. |
| 13:07.52 | Fisker- | No it's not |
| 13:08.12 | Fisker- | You are allowed more freedom with your games than any other copy protection has for years |
| 13:09.13 | mxs | uhm ... Fisker- ... That is the entire problem. You are "allowed" freedom. You are "given" freedom. It is not something that should be "allowable" or "given" (and in turn, "revocable" and "taken away"). |
| 13:09.47 | Fisker- | You are still just paying a license to use the software |
| 13:09.51 | Fisker- | you are not paying for the software |
| 13:09.53 | Fisker- | EULA or not |
| 13:10.22 | mxs | and your statement is patently false. First of all, copy protection == DRM. Some forms of DRM are more pronounced than others. That does not mean Starforce legitimizes Securom as "good" |
| 13:10.37 | Fisker- | No |
| 13:10.50 | mxs | Fisker-: oh, and naturally, if that license is revoked from one side, you get a refund, RIGHT ? |
| 13:11.07 | mxs | Are you gonna tell me that they own the media next, and it is just a loan ? |
| 13:11.10 | winkiller | WTT my freedom for your gamez PST |
| 13:11.17 | Fisker- | You own the media |
| 13:11.21 | mxs | winkiller: or music :P |
| 13:11.30 | mxs | <-- loves Sony Rootkits |
| 13:11.32 | Fisker- | But not much to do it without a license to use it |
| 13:11.55 | mxs | Fisker-: so I own the media, but am not free to use it ? |
| 13:12.03 | Fisker- | You are free to use it |
| 13:12.08 | Fisker- | But media != game |
| 13:12.12 | mxs | (mind you, we are not talking about redistribution here, but using it in my home)= |
| 13:12.16 | winkiller | free to put your coffee cup on it |
| 13:12.36 | Kirkburn | (wow, I thought you would have finished by now) |
| 13:12.38 | Fisker- | As by UK law, a refund is only possible if both parts agree to it |
| 13:13.01 | winkiller | sues Kirkburn |
| 13:13.01 | mxs | Fisker-: sorry, but taht breaks down, real fast, especially when stuff like Consumer rights enter the room (and their clashing with Intellectual Property rights. The latter does not eradicate the former, though they do overlap in some cases). |
| 13:13.31 | Fisker- | If you broke your part of the contract there is no reason why you should be refunded |
| 13:13.42 | mxs | Fisker-: that is the problem, it is NOT A FUCKING CONTRACT. |
| 13:14.15 | Fisker- | You can call it what you want |
| 13:14.19 | Fisker- | license, contract, etc. |
| 13:14.30 | mxs | but that's OK. We can stop now. I don't think I'll get through to you without you having attended a couple of university courses on IP. |
| 13:14.53 | mxs | or UK law is so SUBSTANTIALLY different from German law that it does not make any sense to discuss, anyway |
| 13:15.01 | sancus | meh, Steam's DRM has been outed as highly questionable by a lot of people |
| 13:15.10 | mxs | (and yes, I have had this discussion, in detail, in class, with professors who work in that field :) |
| 13:15.20 | mxs | sancus: not according to Fisker- .P |
| 13:15.23 | winkiller | Steam itself has been questioned by people, including me |
| 13:15.27 | sancus | not really sure how you can argue that |
| 13:15.52 | sancus | That said, they're going to continue to get away with it as long as they produce quality products, as most people don't care about DRM as long it doesn't apparently interfere with their use |
| 13:16.03 | Fisker- | exactly |
| 13:16.07 | Fisker- | because their DRM ISNT BAD |
| 13:16.09 | sancus | It doesn't make it right |
| 13:16.15 | Fisker- | i didn't say it did |
| 13:16.22 | mxs | sancus: the problem, usually, revolves around implicit trust for Valve to do the right thing. In contrast (and tainted by working in security for too long), I have to ask what the worst possible thing they could do is, and limit that :) |
| 13:16.31 | sancus | Of course |
| 13:16.43 | sancus | Chances are they will abuse their power in the future, eventually |
| 13:16.48 | sancus | who knows how long that will take though |
| 13:16.52 | Fisker- | mxs if you study so much law, surely you must know about class action suits |
| 13:16.55 | mxs | they don't even need to do that maliciously |
| 13:16.57 | Fisker- | They don't ban people because they want to |
| 13:17.06 | Fisker- | and if they did, it's not "$50" we're talking about |
| 13:17.13 | mxs | Fisker-: uhm. Yeah. I do. German law has no class action suits. Next. |
| 13:17.21 | Fisker- | pro-tip: THIS IS SPARTA |
| 13:17.55 | mxs | of course they don't. Or say they don't. I still think that you do not get that it is a very bad thing for them to be ABLE to do that, though. |
| 13:18.32 | Fisker- | It is in no way different from what Blizzard does with for example World of Warcraft |
| 13:18.39 | Fisker- | they can terminate your account without any reason at all |
| 13:19.06 | Fisker- | But i still don't see how Steam is the "bad guy" here |
| 13:19.12 | Fisker- | We can all agree that DRM sucks |
| 13:19.17 | mxs | also a policy I do disagree with (especially the non-accountability) for very obvious reasons, but it is a problem in a different area. |
| 13:19.21 | sancus | There will certainly be a lot of interesting legal ground tread in the next decade or two |
| 13:19.30 | Fisker- | but within DRM, Valve's DRM is not intrusive to the user |
| 13:19.36 | Fisker- | That is good |
| 13:19.36 | sancus | I just hope that courts aren't retarded and don't just haphazardly rule in favor of the party with the most money, the way they did in the glider lawsuit |
| 13:19.51 | mxs | sancus: my fear is that there won't. It'll proliferate through gaming (as it has now), and, once tested properly, be extended to other areas. |
| 13:19.57 | mxs | Well, not just gaming. Just look at HDCP. |
| 13:20.08 | winkiller | HDwhat? |
| 13:20.11 | winkiller | now you lost me |
| 13:20.13 | mxs | Fisker-: you meant to say "not as intrusive", surely. |
| 13:20.13 | winkiller | finally |
| 13:21.00 | mxs | winkiller: the excellent standard the MPAA pushed through. The one that will make it impossible to use your perfectly fine current LCD display to display BluRay content with the PS3 (or on any compliant computer) |
| 13:21.12 | winkiller | ah |
| 13:21.15 | winkiller | k thanks |
| 13:21.16 | mxs | not because of technical reasons but, you see, somebody could be real evil and CAPTURE the DVI signal |
| 13:21.19 | Fisker- | No mxs i didn't, and it would be wonderful if you could show me any example where Steam would work fundementally different than it does now if it had no DRM |
| 13:21.21 | winkiller | has faint memories |
| 13:21.41 | sancus | well for one thing |
| 13:21.44 | mxs | Fisker-: So what you are claiming is that steam has no DRM ? |
| 13:21.47 | sancus | you could play your fucking games all you wanted if the Steam server died. |
| 13:21.56 | mxs | Fisker-: for if it did not work differently, it would have no DRM. |
| 13:22.16 | mxs | you could copy your steamfolder from computer A to computer B and use it as before. |
| 13:22.33 | Fisker- | you can |
| 13:22.52 | mxs | ah, so I can install HL2 on one machine, copy the folder, start HL2 and be happy ? |
| 13:23.01 | Fisker- | no |
| 13:23.04 | winkiller | so it worked last time iirc |
| 13:23.13 | winkiller | maybe that source folder was cracked already, though :P |
| 13:23.17 | Fisker- | You can copy your steamfolder from computer A to computer B and use it as before. |
| 13:23.20 | winkiller | been a couple of years |
| 13:23.22 | mxs | let's not give the second machine internet access. Let's say it's my laptop and I just copy the folder before I head off to board a plane. Then I want to play the game. |
| 13:24.03 | mxs | it would very much surprise me if Steam was computer-agnostic |
| 13:24.54 | sancus | it isn't |
| 13:24.55 | mxs | I can also backup the whole installation, right now, on a DVD, dust it off in 20 years' time and start playing ? |
| 13:25.03 | sancus | you can't play offline without authing with the server first once either |
| 13:25.16 | sancus | So like I said, if Steam dies, that's GG to you except for pre-authed computers |
| 13:25.22 | mxs | (and before you say that that is an outlandish thing to want to be able to do, I am still playing games 22 years old. Right now.) |
| 13:25.36 | winkiller | what? |
| 13:25.42 | Fisker- | What you are writing is actually irrelevant |
| 13:25.46 | mxs | winkiller: Metroid is the best game of all time. |
| 13:25.52 | Fisker- | You can copy Steam from Computer A to B and use it like you did before |
| 13:25.52 | mxs | Fisker-: it is ? |
| 13:25.54 | winkiller | mhm, I didn't really like it |
| 13:25.57 | Fisker- | That was your claim it couldn't |
| 13:26.02 | Fisker- | Steam is an online service |
| 13:26.06 | Fisker- | NOT a game |
| 13:26.06 | winkiller | but original Sim City is close. also 16 years |
| 13:26.10 | sancus | uh yes |
| 13:26.17 | sancus | the point is that it makes the online service a requirement to play your games |
| 13:26.26 | mxs | Fisker-: oh come on, you know exactly that I meant "copy the games I installed with it, including steam" |
| 13:26.29 | sancus | which is an inconvenient effect that only exists for the benefit of the DRM... |
| 13:26.37 | sancus | If the DRM didn't exist, it wouldn't work that way |
| 13:26.53 | Fisker- | If DRM didn't exist you wouldn't have the game |
| 13:27.02 | sancus | That's totally untrue |
| 13:27.05 | Fisker- | No |
| 13:27.10 | sancus | If DRM didn't exist Valve wouldn't make games? Give me a break. |
| 13:27.14 | Fisker- | no |
| 13:27.16 | mxs | sancus: and as I had already said, Q3A got it right. They use a CDkey. When their keyservers die, the game will play just fine. |
| 13:27.23 | Fisker- | because the act of having an account which lists which games you have itself is a form of DRM |
| 13:27.50 | sancus | you're not making sense |
| 13:27.54 | Fisker- | I am |
| 13:27.56 | mxs | Fisker-: now you are just grasping for straws. |
| 13:28.02 | Fisker- | You are accessing an online service |
| 13:28.07 | Fisker- | associated with that is a user/password |
| 13:28.11 | mxs | oh, so the HL2 box I bought at a store does not need Steam ? |
| 13:28.14 | Fisker- | Without DRM you are not associated with anything |
| 13:28.14 | sancus | but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMES |
| 13:28.15 | mxs | Give me a fucking Break. |
| 13:28.16 | sancus | at all |
| 13:28.18 | Fisker- | it does |
| 13:28.22 | sancus | no it doesn't, sorry |
| 13:28.23 | sancus | you're wrong |
| 13:28.24 | Fisker- | no |
| 13:28.33 | sancus | The online service is a requirement to play the games, put their specifically for DRM. |
| 13:28.36 | sancus | It has nothing to do with the games. |
| 13:28.41 | sancus | The games could work fine without it entirely. |
| 13:28.47 | sancus | *there |
| 13:28.50 | mxs | sancus: I think he means that you get something extra with steam, the ability to download games. |
| 13:29.12 | Fisker- | No i mean that if DRM didn't exist, then you wouldn't have Steam |
| 13:29.15 | mxs | which is orthogonal to the DRM employed (I can download games off of Usenet or RapidShare or BitTorrent as well, that does not make those things DRM) |
| 13:29.29 | mxs | Fisker-: that is a bullshit argument. Why would Steam not exist ? |
| 13:29.41 | sancus | And wait, who said I want Steam anyway? |
| 13:29.44 | mxs | Why could I not offer games for download after paying for them, without DRM ? |
| 13:29.44 | Fisker- | Because it would not know which game you did or did not own |
| 13:29.51 | sancus | Your argument would make sense if I could go buy a steam-free copy of the game at the store |
| 13:29.52 | sancus | I can't do that |
| 13:29.59 | Fisker- | you can |
| 13:30.00 | mxs | oh, so Amazon.com is unable to send me a package, too ? |
| 13:30.02 | Fisker- | Just not Valve games |
| 13:30.11 | Fisker- | If postal services didn't exist, yes. |
| 13:30.13 | sancus | Uh yeah, we're talking about valve games |
| 13:30.21 | mxs | yeah, make your facts fit your aguments. |
| 13:30.56 | mxs | So, DRM-wise, are you saying that if I take my HL2 install or HL2 discs, right now, put them away for 20 years and then attempt to install them or play the game, I will be met with no problems ? |
| 13:31.05 | mxs | What about 30 years ? 50 ? What if Valve goes under in 10 ? |
| 13:31.34 | Fisker- | nope |
| 13:31.43 | mxs | (they SAY they will release the data required to unlock their games in that case, but who guarantees that ? The people who guarantee it right now might not be working there then, anymore) |
| 13:32.09 | mxs | ok, Fisker-, you officially just entered the crackpot-territory. Without Steam servers up, I will not be install the game in 20-50 years. |
| 13:32.15 | Fisker- | I'm saying that the part that verifies whether or not you are the owner of the games you say would have steam work no different than if you didn't have it |
| 13:32.41 | mxs | no, you said that Steam would be the same with or without DRM. |
| 13:32.57 | mxs | Without the crappy DRM they have, I would be able to play the game I downloaded and installed today even in 100 years |
| 13:33.02 | mxs | or 50 or 20. |
| 13:33.08 | mxs | Regardless of whether Valve went under. |
| 13:33.19 | Fisker- | nope |
| 13:33.20 | mxs | With the DRM they have, that is far from a guarantee (and will be a hassle). |
| 13:35.43 | mxs | to draw a comparison : I know my magnatune.com music will play fine in 20 years. I do not know that about iTunes. Oh, and magnatune is similar to Steam in that you can redownload the music you bought whenever you want. |
| 13:36.27 | Fisker- | If you did not have DRM you would not be able to even download the music in the first place |
| 13:36.54 | mxs | uhm. |
| 13:36.58 | mxs | magnatune has no DRM. |
| 13:36.59 | mxs | Next. |
| 13:37.43 | Fisker- | So you have no kind of user association with magnatune? |
| 13:37.45 | Fisker- | next. |
| 13:38.10 | mxs | sorry fisker, but an account at a store is not the same as DRM. |
| 13:38.21 | Fisker- | It is |
| 13:38.35 | mxs | yeah, go take a hike. You do not understand what you are talking about. |
| 13:38.37 | Fisker- | (btw i'm obvious trolling you) |
| 13:38.45 | Kirkburn | I really hope you weren't supposed to be doing anything else for the last 90 minutes :) |
| 13:38.53 | Fisker- | Just because there is put no restrictions on your media doesn't mean that it's not DRM |
| 13:39.04 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 13:39.07 | Fisker- | Digital Rights Management |
| 13:39.08 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Fisker-!n=Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno] by Sky2042 (just for trolling.) |
| 13:39.12 | *** join/#wowwiki Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
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| 13:39.14 | Fisker- | It's digital (check) |
| 13:39.14 | *** mode/#wowwiki [-o Sky2042] by ChanServ |
| 13:39.23 | Fisker- | Do you have the right to download it(check) |
| 13:39.29 | Fisker- | that also checks management |
| 13:39.34 | mxs | Fisker-, fuck you. If you don't want to discuss something, don't. If you want to troll, go to 2chan. They like you there. |
| 13:39.54 | mxs | he's now on ignore, maybe I'll take it off tomorrow. |
| 13:39.58 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 13:40.01 | Kirochi | stop talking about trolls you douchebags |
| 13:40.31 | Fisker- | That's how it is when you fail to come up with a comprehensible argument of how removing the DRM on steam would change anything |
| 13:42.54 | *** kick/#wowwiki [Fisker-!n=nnnnnnon@67.196.136.190] by sancus (kicking Fisker is almost as fun as playing DRM-free games) |
| 13:42.57 | *** join/#wowwiki Fisker- (i=ballmer@62.61.142.209.generic-hostname.arrownet.dk) |
| 13:43.31 | Fisker- | Must be very boring games that are DRM-free then |
| 13:43.48 | Fisker- | If such even exist in this age |
| 13:44.39 | Fisker- | I wonder what your definition on DRM is btw |
| 13:45.05 | Sky2042 | Oh jesus, don't get started again. |
| 13:45.32 | sancus | yeah they are boring, thats why you get kicked so much |
| 13:45.32 | Fisker- | Hey mxs already ignored me from losing the game, so not much to start here :P |
| 13:45.33 | mxs | no worries, I can't. /ignore is exhaustive :P |
| 13:45.38 | sancus | we need to entertain ourselves somehow |
| 13:46.02 | winkiller | bored Fisker- seems booored |
| 13:46.04 | sancus | maybe if you could attach DRM to yourself somehow, you could sell your services |
| 13:46.26 | Fisker- | yeah winkiller giev spore |
| 13:48.59 | Fisker- | http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/29/michael-phelps-call-of-duty-early/ <-still lame btw |
| 13:50.41 | Fisker- | seems to be a lot of gameplay in spore >:3 |
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| 14:07.31 | Fisker- | btw Kirkburn you getting spore? |
| 14:07.43 | Kirkburn | yes |
| 14:08.00 | Kirkburn | My library of Maxis games is large |
| 14:08.51 | Fisker- | atleast we only have to wait until the 4th :P |
| 14:08.57 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 14:09.03 | Fisker- | weird that it's released earlier in EU than US |
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| 14:26.45 | Ose | Ubiquity seems kinda nice |
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| 15:22.19 | Ose | which of http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/archive/7/70/20080831062743!WorldMap-GrizzlyHills.jpg and http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/archive/7/70/20080901151929!WorldMap-GrizzlyHills.jpg represents the map as it currently is in-game? |
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| 15:51.55 | Kirkburn | Ose, the second |
| 15:52.04 | Kirkburn | They redid the maps in the last build |
| 15:52.42 | g0urra | Yeah new corners |
| 15:53.17 | Kirkburn | Have all of the on-wiki maps been updated? |
| 15:53.40 | g0urra | Most of the ones |
| 15:54.09 | g0urra | Not Zul'Drak |
| 15:54.12 | g0urra | I'll work on that |
| 15:54.43 | Kirkburn | Thanks :) |
| 15:55.28 | Kirkburn | Howling Fjord? |
| 15:57.28 | g0urra | mkay that too |
| 15:58.41 | winkiller | kind of pointless to update all that stuff as the beta continues to spit out semiweekly builds :P |
| 15:58.56 | winkiller | I mean.. ok, some new maps. but no details |
| 15:58.57 | Kirkburn | People enjoy seeing the changes |
| 15:59.02 | g0urra | ^ |
| 15:59.06 | Kirkburn | (I know I do) |
| 15:59.07 | winkiller | people have too much time then |
| 15:59.21 | g0urra | you're just jealous you're not in the beta |
| 15:59.26 | winkiller | I hardly come to glance over bibi's posts every 2 days |
| 15:59.27 | Kirkburn | Yes. We play WoW in it. :P |
| 15:59.45 | winkiller | g0urra: actually.. no, not a single hour |
| 15:59.48 | Kirkburn | g0urra, also Storm Peaks and Icecrown? :P |
| 15:59.56 | winkiller | I just hate it that people already spoil the goodies |
| 16:00.08 | winkiller | but not hate as in OHNOES PUT IT AWAY |
| 16:00.17 | winkiller | it kills maybe 10% of my wotlk fun :P |
| 16:00.34 | Kirkburn | That's why I dislike spoilers on here, but on WoWWiki you can avoid it |
| 16:00.58 | winkiller | nah, I meant.. I'm 80% looking forward to it despite |
| 16:01.09 | winkiller | like.. "there are DK and inscription" are already spoilers |
| 16:01.29 | winkiller | I'm not talking about quests.. I'll look them up on wowhead while doing em anyway |
| 16:02.00 | winkiller | it's just annoying to have BETABETABETA zomg one hunter skill got changed for 10% damage |
| 16:02.13 | winkiller | that will TOTALLY be final and worth crying |
| 16:02.24 | g0urra | BEAR TRAP |
| 16:02.25 | g0urra | ;_; |
| 16:02.27 | g0urra | Kirkburn |
| 16:02.28 | g0urra | it's gone |
| 16:02.35 | g0urra | I WANT BEAR TRAPZ |
| 16:02.54 | winkiller | that map is not logical |
| 16:02.57 | Kirkburn | It's been gone for ages o_O |
| 16:03.12 | winkiller | "grizzly hills" sounds wild and fierce, yet there are more roads than in elwynn |
| 16:03.26 | Kirkburn | The zone is way way larger than Elwynn though |
| 16:03.30 | winkiller | seems they're doing more details now than at launch |
| 16:03.37 | Kirkburn | Map details? |
| 16:03.42 | winkiller | BE/squid starting places also were like this |
| 16:03.48 | winkiller | more stuff |
| 16:03.52 | Kirkburn | Yes indeed |
| 16:03.58 | winkiller | on the maps ingame and on the wow-maps |
| 16:03.59 | Kirkburn | Like proper maps :P |
| 16:04.11 | winkiller | elwynn is quite dull in fact |
| 16:04.14 | winkiller | like 10 POI |
| 16:04.20 | winkiller | Tranquillien has like 20 |
| 16:04.26 | winkiller | *ghostlands |
| 16:05.17 | winkiller | and one logical flaw totally annoys me, actually |
| 16:05.29 | winkiller | a level 1 can go to Winterspring. 55 levels difference |
| 16:05.36 | winkiller | but a level 70 can't reach Northrend |
| 16:05.46 | winkiller | from an ingame perspective |
| 16:06.21 | winkiller | is glad he's no RPer and only IC 1% of the time while doing /insult and /rude |
| 16:09.53 | Kirkburn | http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:WorldMap-Elwynn.jpg ... it's so ugly |
| 16:10.05 | Bibi | you're ugly. |
| 16:10.22 | Kirkburn | touche |
| 16:10.38 | Fisker- | g0urra |
| 16:10.39 | Fisker- | http://blog.makezine.com/basicelectronics.gif |
| 16:10.45 | Kirkburn | It'd be nice to have the old maps redone, especially with the Grizzly Hills colour set |
| 16:16.04 | mxs | Kirkburn: maybe when they add flying to old Azeroth |
| 16:16.06 | mxs | *hides* |
| 16:16.11 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 16:19.32 | winkiller | lol Fisker- |
| 16:20.28 | winkiller | I've flewn over the Shatterspear village for the first time yesterday |
| 16:20.49 | winkiller | I think I've been playing wow for over 3 years now |
| 16:22.04 | g0urra | Kirkburn |
| 16:22.17 | Kirkburn | mmm? |
| 16:22.25 | g0urra | for some reason the part of the map where The Ancient Lift is is missing |
| 16:22.46 | Fisker- | do it g0urra |
| 16:24.21 | Kirkburn | g0urra, o_O |
| 16:24.42 | g0urra | Kirkburn: can you check if it's on yours? |
| 16:25.01 | Kirkburn | Not quickly, sorry - working atm |
| 16:25.17 | Kirkburn | Are you talking in-game or in the files? |
| 16:25.23 | g0urra | do if Fisker- |
| 16:25.25 | g0urra | in-game |
| 16:25.36 | Kirkburn | Then yeah, can't get atm |
| 16:27.02 | winkiller | wait? Kirkburn's job doesn't involve playing wow? how lame |
| 16:27.06 | winkiller | *strikes from list* |
| 16:27.11 | Kirkburn | Terrible, innnit |
| 16:27.25 | winkiller | at least it involves irc |
| 16:27.31 | winkiller | *moves up on list* |
| 16:27.38 | Kirkburn | heh |
| 16:33.08 | Fisker- | slaps g0urra around a bit with a large trout |
| 16:33.18 | Fisker- | watch my AWESOME pictar |
| 16:33.23 | g0urra | no |
| 16:33.31 | Fisker- | do it |
| 16:33.33 | Fisker- | i hate you |
| 16:37.50 | Kirkburn | Why the heck do we have a Ragnaros quote in the topic? |
| 16:38.23 | Kirkburn | Norwegian WoWWiki is running a contest for beta keys btw - http://no.wowwiki.com/wiki/Lichkongens_konkuranse |
| 16:40.43 | Fisker- | TOO LATE KIRKBURN YOU DISCOVERED THE RAGNAROS QUOTE TOO LATE |
| 16:40.55 | Fisker- | *fireballs Kirkburn* |
| 16:41.31 | Kirkburn | *enrages* |
| 16:41.39 | Kirkburn | patches to 3.0.2 |
| 16:41.44 | Kirkburn | *frenzies* |
| 16:42.56 | Fisker- | regardless of the patch you *dies* |
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| 17:00.22 | g0urra | Kirkburn, zul'drak map coming up |
| 17:00.54 | g0urra | yay my fx died again |
| 17:01.15 | Kirkburn | :( |
| 17:02.04 | Fisker- | g0urra |
| 17:02.10 | Fisker- | http://blog.makezine.com/basicelectronics.gif |
| 17:02.10 | Fisker- | DO IT |
| 17:03.08 | g0urra | Kirkburn: http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:WorldMap-ZulDrak.jpg |
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| 17:46.06 | mxs | Kirkburn: does Wikia actually employ any engineers or people who can track down and fix the Opera problem ? :) |
| 17:47.15 | Kirkburn | Afaik it's still being looked at |
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| 17:47.39 | Fisker- | Kirkburn |
| 17:47.52 | mxs | Kirkburn: my question being whether there even is somebody to look at it :P |
| 17:47.57 | Fisker- | isn't posting various exploits in boss encounters to trivialize them considered DNP? |
| 17:48.51 | Kirkburn | Yes, http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_Staff |
| 17:48.59 | Kirkburn | Fisker-, yes |
| 17:50.52 | Fisker- | http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Akil%27zon_gauntlet&diff=1591254&oldid=1397912 was what i was talking about |
| 17:50.54 | Fisker- | btw |
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| 17:52.24 | Kirkburn | Fisker-, good stuff, thanks |
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| 18:25.23 | Given_to_Fly | Hi all |
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| 19:09.17 | Kirkburn | Free download of Red Alert 1! http://www.ea.com/redalert/news-detail.jsp?id=62 :D |
| 19:09.51 | Fisker- | old!§ |
| 19:09.53 | Fisker- | !321 |
| 19:09.54 | Fisker- | >;Z( |
| 19:10.18 | g0urra | oh the noes |
| 19:10.28 | Fisker- | g0urra ! |
| 19:10.35 | Fisker- | http://blog.makezine.com/basicelectronics.gif |
| 19:12.11 | Kirkburn | oold! |
| 19:12.35 | Fisker- | ;( |
| 19:12.39 | mxs | Kirkburn: I feel cheated ! I have the retail box of that game ! :P |
| 19:12.41 | Kirkburn | hoisted by one's own petard |
| 19:13.08 | Kirkburn | mxs, noes! |
| 19:13.18 | Kirkburn | I do too, but it's on the other side of the country >_< |
| 19:13.31 | mxs | Kirkburn: it was so much fun ! |
| 19:13.37 | mxs | especially the German version |
| 19:13.39 | Fisker- | i had 3 retail boxes of that game |
| 19:13.40 | Fisker- | >:3 |
| 19:13.51 | mxs | where they replaced red blood with green and death-screams with robotic death screams |
| 19:14.02 | Kirkburn | heh, I was going to say :P |
| 19:14.17 | mxs | it was easily resettable :> |
| 19:14.34 | mxs | To this day I do not understand how Lemmings ever got sold unchanged |
| 19:14.40 | mxs | they have suicide bombers, forchrissakes |
| 19:14.42 | Kirkburn | :O |
| 19:14.54 | Kirkburn | Is there still the green blood rule? |
| 19:15.02 | mxs | there never was a green blood rule |
| 19:15.34 | mxs | but if you have copious violence and red blood, the "Jugendschutz" applies |
| 19:15.42 | Kirkburn | Is this like a "you don't talk about Fight Club" thing? |
| 19:15.49 | mxs | (that is if it lands on the "index") |
| 19:16.02 | mxs | well, it's in an effort to protect the youth |
| 19:16.06 | mxs | adults can still buy it |
| 19:16.11 | Kirkburn | I'm guessing the Hell March probably didn't help it pass unnoticed |
| 19:16.12 | mxs | but you cannot advertize the game |
| 19:16.37 | mxs | and you can't openly display it in any store that lets minors in |
| 19:16.47 | mxs | which is an effective death-sentence for any mass-marketed product |
| 19:16.51 | Kirkburn | Hey, we sampled Hitler for our main theme of the game. Germany will be fine with that, right? Right? |
| 19:17.01 | mxs | so they try stuff like green blood to avoid it. Which is patently ridiculous, but oh well. |
| 19:17.15 | Fisker- | Valve wins |
| 19:17.20 | Fisker- | rubber ducks as blood |
| 19:17.22 | Fisker- | wee |
| 19:17.23 | mxs | heh ... so long as you do not use any of the nazi symbols ... sure ! |
| 19:17.30 | Kirkburn | I recall a game where the devs had to put clothes on their nude alien in order to sell it |
| 19:17.43 | mxs | nudity ? |
| 19:17.45 | mxs | not in Germany |
| 19:17.51 | mxs | we don't care about nudity |
| 19:17.53 | Kirkburn | Oh, sorry, I meant in the US |
| 19:17.54 | mxs | we only care about violence |
| 19:18.00 | mxs | yeah, US is the other way around |
| 19:18.03 | Kirkburn | Indeed |
| 19:18.35 | mxs | Jugendschutz is bullshit, anyway. It's just another word for censorship, and it does not just apply to the youth. |
| 19:18.36 | Kirkburn | I think in the UK they put on bottoms, and most other places had ...zomg ... a naked blue alien. |
| 19:19.37 | mxs | but yeah, Wolfenstein 3D got forbidden |
| 19:19.47 | mxs | that is, not just on the index, but forbidden to own or obtain |
| 19:20.21 | mxs | same for the US version of Doom |
| 19:20.29 | mxs | (remember that bonus level shaped like a swastika -- well, yeah.) |
| 19:20.46 | Kirkburn | d'oh |
| 19:20.48 | mxs | They took that level out in the German version :) |
| 19:21.07 | mxs | it was deliberate, the bonus level says something akin to "Hello Mr. Kohl !" (Helmut Kohl was Chancellor at the time) |
| 19:21.56 | mxs | Not that anybody really cared. Wolfenstein still got exchanged on school grounds on good old floppies |
| 19:22.18 | mxs | "gouden daaag" -- one of the best opening lines by any character, ever |
| 19:22.28 | mxs | (it was the fat guy with the minicannon :) |
| 19:23.25 | Gnarfoz | <mxs> which is an effective death-sentence for any mass-marketed product <-- yeah... not. |
| 19:23.52 | Gnarfoz | crap that get's on the index was crap anyway, high-profile stuff even sells *better* :X |
| 19:24.29 | Gnarfoz | also, parents are oblivious to it anyway, so teens get their hands on it either way ;x |
| 19:24.59 | mxs | Gnarfoz: of course they did. I'm not claiming the index was effective. It was, however, a commercial death sentence. |
| 19:25.00 | Fisker- | I heard there were hardcore PORNOGRAPHY in mass effect |
| 19:25.16 | mxs | Gnarfoz: you can't advertize an indexed title |
| 19:25.23 | Gnarfoz | it certainly looks like one, sales numbers speak another language, though |
| 19:25.26 | Gnarfoz | and it's advertise :P |
| 19:25.30 | mxs | ask any publisher how well unadvertized games sell |
| 19:25.46 | Gnarfoz | sure, gonna ask whoever distributed q3a ;X |
| 19:25.48 | Fisker- | better than crysis lololol |
| 19:25.51 | Gnarfoz | or q4 |
| 19:26.04 | mxs | Gnarfoz: oh come on, id Software is the one exception. Everybody knows id Software. |
| 19:26.05 | Gnarfoz | btw, yay for retroactive censorship :D |
| 19:26.22 | Gnarfoz | like I said: crap that got on the index was crap anyway *g* |
| 19:26.29 | mxs | yeah, Metroid for the NES is a Killergame ! :P |
| 19:26.38 | Gnarfoz | obviously |
| 19:26.46 | mxs | Gnarfoz: well, then let's be fair |
| 19:26.54 | mxs | let's compare crap on the index to crap not on the index, but heavily advertized |
| 19:27.08 | Gnarfoz | -z+s (agh you hurt my eyes :P) |
| 19:27.18 | mxs | I spent a year in the US. |
| 19:27.21 | mxs | They branded my English. |
| 19:27.42 | Gnarfoz | sry, advertize is wrong in AE, too |
| 19:27.48 | mxs | true |
| 19:28.02 | mxs | fucking yanks, inconsistent flipfloppers :> |
| 19:28.25 | mxs | just be thankful that I learned my lesson on explanations. They used to be explantations. |
| 19:28.26 | Gnarfoz | the mistook me for a briton :X |
| 19:28.33 | mxs | Nobody EVER noticed or told me. |
| 19:29.32 | mxs | I also loved the teachers in the US. I once used "deduce" in a sentence. Teacher was impressed. Teacher wanted to hear my definition of the word so she could see whether I knew that I used it correctly. |
| 19:29.37 | mxs | Teacher did not agree with my definition. |
| 19:29.47 | mxs | My definition agrees with webster's. |
| 19:29.55 | mxs | err Webster's |
| 19:30.07 | mxs | this was the person teaching English 4 AP |
| 19:30.50 | mxs | The most amazing part of that conversation was that she was unable to produce a definition when asked :P |
| 19:31.21 | Gnarfoz | obvious teacher is obvious. |
| 19:31.46 | Gnarfoz | hates his totally broken pally :X |
| 19:32.42 | Bagginsww | I'm looking forward to the new Wolfentstein |
| 19:33.25 | mxs | I'm not, I didn't like any of the subsequent stuff |
| 19:33.37 | mxs | then again, Q3A will forever remain my definition of Quake |
| 19:34.07 | mxs | I mean, how can you improve on THAT |
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| 20:02.55 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 20:04.18 | *** join/#wowwiki g0urra (n=g0urra@73-236.powerdsl.t3.se) |
| 20:04.18 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o g0urra] by ChanServ |
| 20:04.37 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 20:05.17 | Fisker- | flee g0urra |
| 20:05.22 | Fisker- | FLEE BEFORE I LOSE ALL SENSE OF CONTROL |
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| 20:21.11 | winkiller | oh man, my literary skills are totally wasted |
| 20:21.20 | winkiller | people sheep early |
| 20:21.21 | winkiller | or the mob will come to us |
| 20:21.21 | winkiller | what a cool haiku |
| 20:24.15 | Sky2042_afk | that last line is week. |
| 20:24.18 | Sky2042_afk | make it better imo |
| 20:25.51 | winkiller | it took 5secs during a fight. |
| 20:26.06 | winkiller | or better between 2 pulls |
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| 20:28.10 | Sky2042 | Kirkburn|sleep, poke. |
| 20:32.14 | kd3 | eesh.. 458MB patch while I was on vacation |
| 20:34.52 | mxs | kd3: at least there is a mirror for it :P |
| 20:35.41 | kd3 | indeed. much appreciated |
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| 20:50.14 | Kirkburn|sleep | Sky2042, ? |
| 20:50.29 | Sky2042 | Kirkburn|sleep, uh, sec. |
| 20:50.32 | Sky2042 | digs links up. |
| 20:50.35 | *** join/#wowwiki Lopen (n=Lopen@c-68-60-55-138.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 20:51.01 | Sky2042 | Perhaps http://warcraftworld.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page should be redirected? |
| 20:51.33 | Sky2042 | as well, I'm a little wondrous why http://warcraftmods.wikia.com/wiki/Warcraft_Mods_Wiki was allowed to be opened. |
| 20:51.45 | Sky2042 | the second is from August 21 of this year. |
| 20:51.59 | Kirkburn|sleep | It's intended for RTS mods |
| 20:52.11 | Sky2042 | Which is more of the stuff we need. |
| 20:52.12 | Kirkburn|sleep | The former, good point, I'll check up |
| 20:52.13 | Sky2042 | Right? |
| 20:53.27 | Kirkburn|sleep | if it goes nowhere, yeah |
| 20:53.31 | Sky2042 | The request included Starcraft also, but wouldn't it be better to call it blizzard modding or RTS modding? Also, the request actually included WoW also. |
| 20:53.38 | Sky2042 | >_> |
| 20:53.50 | Kirkburn|sleep | Yeah, well, that part was just silly :P |
| 20:54.05 | g0urra | lol modding WoW |
| 20:55.00 | g0urra | "download this mod, it'll show you coords, UBER LEET HAX" |
| 20:55.01 | Sky2042 | that's what ace wiki is for, isn't it? |
| 20:55.01 | Sky2042 | :P |
| 20:55.01 | Kirkburn|sleep | I have a longstanding veto on Warcraft wikis, but the mods one I said okay because it's not something we specialize in much (wanted to see if it would actually go anywhere) |
| 20:55.17 | Sky2042 | heh |
| 20:55.27 | Sky2042 | well, poke someone to redirect the other, of course. |
| 20:55.37 | Kirkburn|sleep | Will get it looked at |
| 20:55.37 | Sky2042 | and keep an eye on this modding one :P |
| 20:55.49 | Sky2042 | otherwise, go back to bed. |
| 20:57.03 | Kirkburn|sleep | There is also http://warcraft3pc.wikia.com/wiki/Warcraft_III_PC which was created during a short "accept all wikis" test. It's likely to close (also, I wasn't happy about it). |
| 20:57.57 | Kirkburn|sleep | Anyway, back to bed. Thanks :) |
| 21:19.42 | sacarasc | Just topped 1400 dps in a boss fight... *happy* |
| 21:21.13 | Sky2042 | weaksauce!!! |
| 21:24.46 | sacarasc | we're a T5 raiding guild currently, I think that's pretty good |
| 21:25.20 | Sky2042 | Nowai. You needs over 9000!!!! |
| 21:25.36 | sacarasc | maybe next week |
| 21:25.52 | Sky2042 | Oh. |
| 21:25.54 | Sky2042 | Okai. |
| 21:26.05 | Sky2042 | I will attempt to remember to ask you about it. |
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| 21:58.03 | Ose | hai bagginsww |
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| 22:12.43 | g0urra | hello earthmeLon |
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| 22:14.40 | g0urra | hello earthmeLon |
| 22:17.22 | Fisker- | slaps g0urra around a bit with a large trout |
| 22:18.14 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 22:19.15 | Fisker- | you can't stop me |
| 22:31.53 | Sandwichman2448 | Well, since Baggins (with or without trailing Ws in various amounts) is not here, I will voice my comment regardless. |
| 22:33.15 | Sandwichman2448 | While charged with lore, his moving or Orcish from the language to a redirect to orc has caused the pages that linked there to make little sense. Proper word useage or not. |
| 22:33.56 | Sandwichman2448 | It needs cleaning or to be moved back. I do not know his reasons, and I respect them. |
| 22:34.26 | Sandwichman2448 | Also, orcish was only an example. It was all of them. |
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| 22:53.26 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 22:57.00 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 22:58.16 | g0urra | Nitro tha CiMien |
| 22:58.29 | sacarasc | what do you mean, g0urra? |
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| 23:02.10 | pcj | main page portal switching now implemented |
| 23:13.59 | Sandwichman2448 | I thik a disambig works. |
| 23:14.08 | Sandwichman2448 | s/thik/think/ |
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| 23:25.52 | Sandwichman2448 | Blizzplanet is infalliable, so not DNP. http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Fandyllic/Jan_2008_thru_Apr_2008_Archive#Blizzplanet_lore |
| 23:26.44 | Sandwichman2448 | [[Jedoga Shadowseeker]] |
| 23:26.45 | Dotted | Sandwichman2448 meant: www.wowwiki.com/Jedoga_Shadowseeker |
| 23:26.54 | g0urra | Did you even see what I removed was DNP? |
| 23:27.17 | Sandwichman2448 | The model? |
| 23:27.49 | g0urra | "She is an untextured orc." |
| 23:28.10 | Sandwichman2448 | I admit it was vague and low quality. |
| 23:28.18 | Sandwichman2448 | But i can cite it. |
| 23:29.02 | Sandwichman2448 | Perhaps I am missing context. |
| 23:30.10 | g0urra | It's fine if you write "She is a female orc". You don't need to type it that she's missing textures. |
| 23:30.30 | Sandwichman2448 | I see. |
| 23:30.39 | Sandwichman2448 | Do I? I'll just put that. |
| 23:30.46 | g0urra | Sure. |
| 23:31.09 | g0urra | Though I'm more inclined to write it when there's more information, as it just got released |
| 23:31.21 | g0urra | Ahn'kahet, that is |
| 23:32.01 | Sandwichman2448 | Still infalliable? |
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| 23:32.55 | g0urra | infalliable? |
| 23:33.16 | Sandwichman2448 | Did I spell it wrong? |
| 23:33.31 | Corgan | why so silly g0urra |
| 23:33.41 | g0urra | why so highlight Corgan |
| 23:33.50 | Sky2042_afk | Why so serious Corgan? |
| 23:34.08 | g0urra | why so good night Sky2042_afk? |
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| 23:34.26 | Sandwichman2448 | Why so why so? |
| 23:34.28 | Sky2042_afk | Oh, nuts. |
| 23:34.32 | Sky2042_afk | Touche. |
| 23:35.43 | Sandwichman2448 | YeaH, I spelled it correctly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallibility |
| 23:35.51 | Sandwichman2448 | Being sober does that. |
| 23:37.20 | Sandwichman2448 | Man. |
| 23:38.11 | Sandwichman2448 | I may have deserved that. |
| 23:39.08 | Sky2042_afk | pcj, nice main page implementation. I was wondering about people who don't have js enabled; i'm sure you explained it to kb when you brought it up, but i don't want to go digging... |
| 23:39.29 | pcj | it works the same as it used to |
| 23:39.40 | pcj | i just moved the navigation to Portal:Main |
| 23:39.50 | pcj | and if they have JS implemented the new function |
| 23:40.02 | Sky2042_afk | coolio. |
| 23:40.08 | Sandwichman2448 | Agreed. |
| 23:40.19 | Sky2042_afk | so they end up at Portal:WotLK if they don't have js enabled, rather than the tab, correct? |
| 23:40.46 | pcj | Right |
| 23:43.32 | Sandwichman2448 | I am unsure what each user considers mature at any given time, and if someone leaves after I say something remotely odd with out giving a reason (i.e. sleep), I blame myself. See g0urra. |
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