IRC log for #wowwiki on 20080621

00:00.05RagestormThe descriptions don't even begin to match up apart from that!
00:01.27*** join/#wowwiki Adys__ (n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys)
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00:01.55Adys__Where the hell am I connected from?
00:03.29Adysah there
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00:04.16Bagginswwits not my fault blizzard tries to turn everything into mobs :p
00:05.03RagestormAs you just pointed out, you've no evidence that they did turn them into mobs
00:05.06*** join/#wowwiki KyleH`` (n=Kyle@wikia/KyleH)
00:05.41Bagginswwthey made elemental spirit mobs, thats all the evidence I have...
00:05.51Bagginswwif they are the same or not I don't know
00:06.00Bagginswwmake a speculation section at the bottom if you like
00:06.05Bagginswwdebating your theory
00:06.18RagestormIt sounds to me like you are the one with the theory
00:06.33BagginswwI'm trying to be neutral about this as possible
00:06.50BagginswwI can only stick with the fact that htey were called elemental spirits
00:07.05RagestormRight, so that's the real root of the problem
00:07.18RagestormIf I'd named the page something different, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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00:07.29FullDolphinX This image is unused, and at an angle that is not ment to be seen in WoW, so I was going to mark it for deletion when I saw that it was the only contrib of a user who no longer exists. He was moved to WoWWiki-KKRP, so how can this be? Is it the Wikia user who replaced him?
00:07.49Bagginswwwhich is why I said it isn't my problem, Blizzard developed it
00:08.18RagestormBagginsww, the problem with with us
00:08.55RagestormThe page is called elemental spirits because that's the best description of these beings that came along.
00:09.22RagestormThen more creatures that can be described as such come along, so they are naturally added.
00:09.29Bagginswwsure its a description, and its not a proper noun, like any race name.
00:10.01pcjwtf database lock
00:10.08RagestormYeah, it's not a racename either.
00:10.09Bagginswwbut ya I suggest you go and take it up with Metzen
00:10.31Ragestorm<bangs head against the wall>
00:10.47RagestormThis isn't a Blizzard problem, this is a WoWWiki problem!
00:11.22Bagginswwsure we do not know if its a race name or only a description  "yet", but knowing blizzard I wouldn't be surprised if we got some kind of article entitled that and giving a background... :p
00:11.41Bagginswwit is a blizzard problem because that is the terminology they have been using in various sources
00:11.52Bagginswwevne if it is only a description
00:12.24RagestormI didn't use any Blizzard source, other than that they're "Spirits" and that they are of the elements.
00:13.06RagestormIt was a descriptive term, like "demonic eredar" was before man'ari was assigned,
00:13.09Bagginswwso you assumed yet there have been sources using that terminology for who knows how long
00:13.30Bagginswwalthough you can be egotistical and assume Blizzard copied Wowwiki :p
00:13.42RagestormNo, I assumed that the title would either be adequate or changed to reflect new sources
00:14.06RagestormAnd the day Blizzard copies us, I'll be flying to visit you from Pig Airport
00:14.19Bagginswwhah hah
00:14.29BagginswwI hope they don't LOL
00:14.53RagestormYeah, I've ridden on one of those things. They're filthy creatures.
00:15.01Bagginswwbut ya the novels don't use elemental spirits, they switch it spirits of the elements
00:15.12RagestormOr just "the elements" or somesuch.
00:15.25Bagginswwwell all the sources use the The spirits, or the elements
00:15.34Bagginswwthose are probably the more common
00:15.40RagestormRight so we apparently agree on this.
00:15.57RagestormNow, let's gently push forward and we can find where the problem starts.
00:16.22RagestormIf anybody wants the chatroom, now's a good time to speak up, we're gonna be here a while
00:16.29Bagginswwwell as it is elemental spirit has been used to define possible 2-3 seperate things
00:16.43Ragestorm1) the five shamany ones
00:16.51Ragestorm2) the Fury things in Outland
00:17.12Bagginswwwhich are shaman spirits but we won't get into that :p
00:17.32RagestormMy argument for them is that they have names and are corporeal.
00:17.56RagestormThey seem to be higher-power elementals.
00:18.31BagginswwWatesoon is confusing, it seems to be higher than the furies, it come sin visions
00:18.46Bagginswwand gives permission...
00:18.54RagestormThe Wilds ones aren't elementals, they're the elements themselves.
00:19.19Bagginswwfunny that the elementals are called the elements at times too :p
00:19.25Bagginswwso that doens't really help :p
00:19.54BagginswwI've seen elementals get described as the elements, spirits, elemental spirits, spirits of the elemets, etc :p
00:20.22Bagginswwthis is one reason I fault blizzard
00:20.50RagestormEven so, there's a fundamental difference in the way the Wilds ones are described and the ones that are in-game
00:21.02Ragestormthe aforementioned names and the aforementioned bodies.
00:21.21BagginswwWell I'd say it would be fair to make a spirits of the wild article
00:21.21RagestormThrall wasn't lifted into the air by an elemental, he just rose.
00:21.53RagestormFine with me <wonders why that wasn't considered when I suggested it hours ago>
00:21.53BagginswwI mean elementals have their own article too
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00:22.13Bagginswwwell I"m still using elemental spirits as a catchal , :p
00:22.15RagestormKeep elemental spirits the way it is (to your editing satisfaction, of course)
00:22.46RagestormAnd then an editorial at the end of the Spirits of the wilds article
00:22.47Bagginswwbut at least spirits of the wild is the closest to a defining term as we have :p
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00:22.58RagestormSadly, I must concur
00:23.11Bagginswwand if Blizzard screws up later, well its not our problem
00:23.17RagestormThe only other option is Elemental Spirits (Shaman)
00:23.26Bagginswwwhich is a problem
00:23.33Bagginswwsince the other elemental spirits are used by shaman
00:23.46RagestormI REALLY want to know how Zuluhed kept his powers
00:24.02RagestormIncidentally, read Unbroken
00:24.04Bagginswwthe ones earthen ring and shaman fight in stonetalon mountains and other parts of kalimdor are related to shaman quests
00:24.11Bagginswwbtw did you ever do the shaman quests?
00:24.22Bagginswwits speaks of the Spirit of the Wind, etc
00:24.29Bagginswwbut they become corporeal
00:24.33Bagginswwfor you to fight them
00:24.48Bagginswwonce you defeat them you gain their powers
00:24.51Bagginswwor totems
00:24.56Bagginswwthis is the early level quests
00:25.01Bagginswwstarting in Durotar
00:25.29RagestormSounds like an in-game justification of the trials of the shaman
00:25.40RagestormThrall just talked to them, not very exciting for a quest.
00:25.41Bagginswwyep but they built quest story around them :p
00:26.01BagginswwI loath when game mechanics and story mix, but what can you do?
00:27.31RagestormWhich reminds me.
00:27.45RagestormLotC explicitly states "Spirit of the Air"
00:27.58Bagginswwand Spirit of Air :p
00:28.05Bagginswwya I noticed that both were used
00:28.09RagestormUnbroken and Blizzard promotional materials say Spirit of the Wind
00:28.30Bagginswwneeds an AKA comment
00:29.04Bagginswwingame I think they speak of both Spirits of the Air and Spirits of the Wind :p
00:29.35RagestormYep, AKA notice
00:30.39RagestormEditing question, not really important
00:30.44Ragestormis Known types in WoW
00:30.56Ragestorma needed section? most of those are dead links
00:31.58Bagginswwwell we are supposed to have a focus on Wow :p
00:32.12Bagginswwand mob articles are made...
00:32.38Bagginswwdotted what's your template again?
00:32.54RagestormActually we are "WoWWiki the free Warcraft universe info source anyone can edit"
00:33.18Bagginswwmaybe i'm mixing you up with someone else
00:33.38Bagginswwbut the template that marks something as needing to be added to
00:33.45Bagginswwfor mob stuff
00:33.59Dottedi dont edit the wiki, so i wouldnt know :P
00:34.21Bagginswwwell ragestorm I can demark them for now
00:34.29BagginswwI mean not make them links
00:34.51Ragestorm<shurg> I was just curious
00:35.01RagestormOh, have a look at Illidari if you have time
00:35.11BagginswwI loath that page
00:35.29Bagginswwit needs citations badly
00:35.37Bagginswwquest links etc
00:36.52BagginswwI came a cross a quest that called the naga in shadowmoon Illidari specifically. But that doesn't mean all naga outside shadowmoon are illidari. It was referring to the ones in the quest specifically :p
00:37.58RagestormAlso, do we know that the Azerothian side of the Dragonmaw counts?
00:39.59Bagginswwthey are Dark Hore
00:40.08Bagginswwso no thye shouldn't count
00:40.45BagginswwNot unless Dark Horde and Fel Horde have some kind of connection mentioned somewhere, I haven't heard about :p
00:41.47RagestormI just found a Pandaran reconiliation
00:42.08Ragestorm"Each world had its own elements, its own powers to call upon"
00:42.33DottedRagestorm meant:
00:42.45RagestormNo I didn't
00:42.56RagestormI meant page 38 of Unbroken
00:43.12BagginswwI personally didn't see there being a problem...
00:43.18Bagginswwbut that line is good
00:43.26RagestormOne could argue (though I'd rather not) that the extra Pandaren elements are ones specific to Azeroth.
00:43.27BagginswwI'll add it
00:43.44Bagginswwso are the Elementals heh
00:43.45RagestormI'm working on the new article right now, be done in a few.
00:44.43Bagginswwthere is enough info in LotC that each spirit could probably be expanded upon in their own articles too
00:44.50Bagginswwbut that multiple name thing could be an issue
00:45.01RagestormI don't think we need to go that far.
00:45.18Bagginswwgenerally speaking, wind, earth, fire, and water are always lower case in the quest lines oddl enough
00:45.49RagestormI'll edit and expand, but as a preview.
00:46.56RagestormEarth, Air and Water have associated speeches that I'd like to add.
00:46.57Bagginswwwilds should probably be lower case
00:47.03Bagginswwlike in the book
00:47.09Bagginswwonly the Spirit itself was caps
00:47.15RagestormFair enough.
00:48.04Ragestormalso add speculation at the bottom
00:48.38RagestormThe only other pagename option is "Everything that is, is alive"
00:48.38Bagginswwabout the outland spirits?
00:48.58RagestormThe Furies are already on the main page.
00:49.43BagginswwI'd suggest adding the stub/lore to that wilds article too, so people can add more form unbroken, and lotc
00:49.55Bagginswwalthough that individual info could be put on individual spirit pages
00:49.59Ragestormas LotC was before the "every planet has their own" idea, we don't know if Thrall was talking to the Draenor ones or the Azeroth ones
00:50.11RagestormI don't think we need individual pages
00:50.30Bagginswwwell each spirit at least needs to redirect to that page at least
00:50.45RagestormAnd seriously, stub notices do nothin
00:50.56RagestormIf people want to add, they add, if they don't they don't
00:51.17RagestormSadly the add the the ones that are fine and don't do anything to the stubs!
00:51.28Ragestorm*add to
00:52.08BagginswwFundamentally incorporeal until someone starts citing the ingame quest info :p
00:52.20Bagginswwarly quests I mean
00:52.38pcjfinish construction
00:52.55BagginswwI need a picture LOL
00:53.00Bagginswwthat represents it
00:53.02RagestormFundamentally incorporeal might imply that they are capable of bodies, they usually don't
00:53.15Bagginswwand I need someone who knows how to make it so you can set it to list sources used
00:53.16RagestormThe cover of unbroken is the closest thing we have
00:53.42Bagginswwlike {{multisource|Lord of the Clans, Unbroken}}
00:54.05Bagginswwoh I was talkign about th emulti source template
00:54.24Bagginswwbut ya I like the unbroken cover
00:54.34Bagginswwfor your page
00:54.42Bagginswwpcj if you could help
00:54.45BagginswwI'd appreciate it
00:54.59pcjcan you give me an example of how it should look
00:55.08foxlitso ironic
00:55.33Bagginswwwell think of our source needed template
00:55.34foxlit"Hey, let's set protection to sysop so that regular users can't delete this template... oh, wait"
00:55.52Bagginswwyou know how you can make it show what needs to be fixed
00:55.58Bagginswwor maybe i'm thinking of wikify
00:56.01Bagginswwthe template
00:56.29Bagginswwbut instead use that feature to show people ahead of time what sources are being referred to in the article
00:56.37Bagginswwthis was to avoid people stackign the other templates
00:56.48Bagginswwwhich look sbad
00:56.55Bagginswwpersonally I'd vote to do away with all of them
00:57.47pcjcan you link to a page baggins
00:57.52RagestormMost of them could probably be removed.
00:57.58RagestormThey're not even used properly
00:58.25Bagginswwwhich page?
00:58.48pcjwhat do you mean show what needs to be fixed
00:59.03Bagginswwok I think its wikifiy
00:59.05pcjyou want to use an ambox for sources?
00:59.15pcjthat doesn't really make sense
00:59.31pcjamboxes are for info relating to editing the article itself
00:59.32Bagginswwbut you can type something like {{wikify|clean up grammar, check sources}}
00:59.43BagginswwI think we are confused
00:59.49RagestormWhat does that have to do with sources?
01:00.01BagginswwI was just wanting an option that would work similarly
01:00.10pcjwe're talking about as far as i know lol
01:00.36Bagginsww{{multisource|Lord of the Clans, Lands of Conflict, The Burning Crusade}}
01:00.37DottedBagginsww meant:,_Lands_of_Conflict,_The_Burning_Crusade
01:00.39Bagginswwif you do that
01:00.47Bagginswwthen it would list in the banner those sources
01:00.50pcjdotted, fail
01:00.54Bagginswwso that the banner i smodifiable
01:01.05RagestormDotted, what the hell are you doing?
01:01.13Bagginswwinstead of people stacking two or three of our regular source banners
01:01.13Dottedlol Ragestorm
01:01.17RagestormNvrmnd, I don't want to know
01:01.38Dottedpcj feel free to fix it
01:01.43pcjum did you want those three to be linked baggins
01:02.37RagestormBagginsww, what source banners are you talking about? the only ones I've seen are {{novel}}, {{RPG}} etc., not for specific sources
01:02.40Bagginswwits an example :p
01:02.48Bagginswwyes ragesgorm those type
01:02.56RagestormJust use the novel stamp
01:03.01Bagginswwsay an article cites form the game, novel, rpg etc
01:03.03pcjyou want it to look like {{novel}}?
01:03.10Bagginswwfandy and others then go around
01:03.22Bagginswwadding all the templates :p
01:03.35BagginswwI want something that looks similar but can be modified to fit the sitatuion
01:03.43RagestormI'd say just use {{novel}}, if you desperately feel the need,
01:03.53RagestormAs you insists, they turn up elsewhere
01:04.06pcjsomething like that baggins?
01:04.09Bagginswwnot everything falls undernovel though:p
01:04.22Bagginswwthat's pretty good
01:04.46RagestormRead the novel disclaimer, it mentions short stories.
01:04.57Bagginswwnot everything is from short stories
01:05.07Bagginswwthink of it this way
01:05.12RagestormI'm all ears
01:05.23Bagginswwif yo had a multisource that was rpg, warcraft iii, and warcraft ii
01:05.34Bagginswwthose arent  novels or short stories, unless of course it was from an rpg short story
01:06.05Bagginswwso I wanted a  single template that be user defined based on the circumstances
01:06.22Bagginswwmultisource being the template
01:06.45Bagginswwafter multisource |(list of the sources)
01:06.51RagestormBagginsww, using that logic, every lore article on the wiki is going to bear this stamp.
01:06.53Bagginswwyou know the for template?
01:07.23Bagginswwwell then you will continue to have fandy
01:07.31Bagginswwadding novel, rpg, and warcraft III templates
01:07.33Bagginswwat the top of the page
01:07.44Bagginswwhe stacks all three
01:08.29Bagginswwif the article has info from all three
01:08.29Bagginswwyou want me to show an example?
01:08.29Bagginswwok going to have to hunt one
01:08.29BagginswwI usually rmeove them right after he does
01:08.30Bagginswwor if others od it
01:08.32RagestormI thought that if it was multisourced we just didn't stamp it
01:09.14Bagginswwthat was my opinion
01:09.30Bagginswwbut fandy seems to have something against leaving banners off pages
01:10.09Bagginswwanother possible interpretation is to use it for the first location of that topic
01:10.18Bagginswwthe first time such and showed up
01:10.43Bagginswwbut then the templates would have to be rewritten to acknowledge that use
01:11.06Bagginswwfor example dark troll would get a warcraft III template
01:11.13Bagginswwsince that was the first time they were seen
01:12.26Bagginswwragestormits going to be very hard to hunt down the last time he did it since I don't remember which article I removed it from :p
01:13.23RagestormIt's not a pressing issue
01:13.31RagestormJust a wierd one.
01:14.17RagestormIn spite of the fact that I've been touted as being in charge of lore, a rather large number of lore choice have been made without me.
01:14.30pcjgood work fandy
01:33.40DottedThe WoWWiki job queue length is currently 8103
01:37.30*** join/#wowwiki Jimdinventor (
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01:54.09kd3what "race" are the harvest collectors in westfall?
01:54.44JimdinventorI seem to recall they're Mechanical (model: scarecrow).
01:54.47Dottedlol pcj
01:55.04Dotted[+pcj]: good work fandy
01:55.08Dottedthats just win
01:55.17Dottedin ever aspect of win
01:55.19JimdinventorI can get verification on the model's name if that's what you're looking for, KD3.
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01:56.53kd3nah, just looking for the race classification we've got them as... 'Harvest golem', by the way
01:57.13Jimdinventor*nod*.  Great! :-)
02:06.35Jimdinventor.... The ability page for Gouge ... is a sandbox?  /boggle
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03:02.52BagginswwI was off doing real life things
03:03.19RagestormBest news I've had all day.
03:03.35RagestormAre you trying to imply something?
03:04.47RagestormWhich should give you some idea of the day I've had 9.9
03:05.19Bagginswwjust making sure my loans and grants were coming... :p
03:05.28RagestormAre they?
03:05.46Bagginswwthe compuster system was posting false information :p
03:05.53RagestormExcellent. This for the geo or the anthro?
03:06.16Bagginswwthe archaelogy field school this summer, and my classes in the fall
03:06.48Bagginsww2 more weeks until I go
03:08.21RagestormStaying local, then?
03:08.32Bagginswwcan't afford an extra  2-3k to get out LOL
03:08.40Bagginswwwith plane ticket prices these days
03:11.32RagestormIt's horrific.
03:11.52Bagginswwyes... :(
03:13.19RagestormSpeaking of which, have you read Roland's latest offering on Talk:Satyr?
03:13.29Bagginswwdo I want to know?
03:13.43RagestormThe anthropologist in you will die.
03:14.06RagestormEither that or you'll just bang your head against a table
03:14.17Bagginswwthey are indepdently but legion aligned
03:14.41RagestormNo, tthat's Kesmana
03:14.47RagestormThe one above it.
03:15.48RagestormI know, not particularly shocking, but I can't wrap my head around it.
03:16.14RagestormI mean, the Odyssey didn't come with pictures!
03:17.14RagestormAnd now look at the Eternals
03:17.37RagestormWhat is Murmur classified as?
03:17.38Bagginswwhe is let me put it bluntly "feeble"
03:17.45Bagginswwelemental of pure sound
03:17.50Bagginswwor some cuch thing
03:18.00Bagginswwnot sure why he puts anything that is vaguely worhipsed
03:18.14Bagginswwand whydo w need a diety article would a category suffice?
03:18.31Bagginswwthere isn't aot of info defining "diety" in warcraft terms
03:18.58RagestormParticularly when we had that epic argument two years ago when you made the Eternal page.
03:19.14RagestormPlus, if he left Elune why bother moving An'she?
03:19.29BagginswwElune btw is an Eternal :p
03:19.47RagestormErr... I know
03:19.49BagginswwI leave an'she because well they are the same being
03:19.57Bagginswwdid he move her?
03:20.01RagestormAn'she is the sun
03:20.05Bagginswwoh oops
03:20.14*** part/#wowwiki Jimdinventor (
03:20.19RagestormRoland moved An'she to the deity page and then added his new ones.
03:20.31BagginswwI"m going to delete the page, and redirect it
03:20.36Bagginswwto faiths
03:21.03RagestormWorks for me
03:21.40RagestormHow does Hetaera fit into either category?
03:22.02RagestormNath, Anzu and Rukhmar I can see.
03:22.14Bagginswwright now I don't even know what hetaera is...
03:22.33Bagginswwumm hydra?
03:22.51Bagginswwhe was putting up that other hydra too
03:23.09Bagginswwand even in the quest text it wasn't really treated as a "god"
03:23.55RagestormRight, so should we add Nath, Anzu and Rukhmar to the overall list?
03:24.08RagestormMaybe we should alphabetize.
03:24.31Bagginswwto which list?
03:24.48Bagginswwoh they dont' fit the eternals definition as we currentlhy know it
03:25.01Bagginswwnot part of Azeroth
03:25.06Bagginswwin any way
03:25.15Bagginswwthey didn't influece azeroth's history
03:25.26Bagginswwor alter the world
03:27.54RagestormDid that enter into your Eternal calculations?
03:28.33Bagginswwthat article might be beyond Eternals in general
03:29.08Bagginswwand we do have articles for demigods, faith etc
03:29.13RagestormNot beyond, perhaps within
03:29.34RagestormThing it, "god" does appear to be a viable classification
03:29.35Bagginswwwell ifs only from Azeroht perspective
03:30.02BagginswwI mean draenor doesn't really count by the specific definitions of Eternal
03:30.20Bagginswwunless something was to come from Draenor and totally alter the face of AZeroth, or alter it shistory
03:30.28Bagginswwthat was immortal
03:30.29RagestormI'm lost
03:30.38Bagginswwwell read the first line of Eternal
03:30.46Bagginswwand first paragraph of background
03:30.49Bagginswwand the history section
03:31.02Bagginswwbasically its referring to only thigns that influenced Azeroth's history
03:31.07Bagginswwin some way
03:31.14Ragestorm<bangs head against the table?
03:31.17Bagginswwor built the wrold
03:31.44Bagginswwthere hans't been any updates to the definition of Eternal, than the ones Metzen and what's his name gave in the book...
03:31.52RagestormRight, so Eternal would not apply to the creator of draenor?
03:31.54Bagginswwand its been used only a few times in other books
03:32.09Bagginswwso I'm just trying to avoid asusming more into the definition than was already there
03:32.46RagestormAnd god and eternal can't be completely separate classifications because...?
03:33.04Bagginswwsince the encyclopedia didn't mention eternal it could be beyond the scope of eternal but parts of it that defnitely fit into Eternals definition
03:33.22BagginswwHakkar influenced the history of the world majorly
03:33.41Bagginswwobviously anything about Ancients
03:33.51Bagginswwfits into scope of Eternal
03:33.57Bagginswwbecause ancients are Eternals
03:34.11Ragestormthe Old Gods, Hakkar and Elune are gods
03:34.26Bagginswwand titans were "akin to gods"
03:34.29Bagginswwor demigods
03:34.55Bagginswwthe book already discusses those differences in definition btw :p
03:35.09RagestormI think that "akin to gods" MUST be different to demigods
03:35.13Bagginswwyes the article arealdy had alot of stuff rom that article
03:35.20Bagginswwit uses both terms :p
03:36.05Bagginswwdemigods and akin to gods are used in the same sources :p
03:36.20Bagginswwbut anycase thats already discussed in the titans section of the article
03:36.31Bagginswwand thea rticle already has alot of material fro the encyclopedia
03:36.38Bagginswwjsut in the related sections
03:45.08Bagginswwbut ya, even LichKing is called a god at times LOL
03:46.05Bagginswwsomeone can go about defining what "god" means but in some ways its sillly since every someone or something else gives another use for god :p
03:46.22Bagginswwgod is such a generic term
03:50.28Bagginswwbut ya the definition given in the website woudl deny alot of things that are not "gods" by its rules
03:50.37Bagginswwbut are consdired gods to those who revere them
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04:02.03RagestormLike I said, only seven confirmed gods.
04:02.20RagestormI really do like the direction they went with Elune
04:05.21RagestormIf only would have taken the easy route and dealt with An'she.
04:07.08BagginswwI wish we knew more about An'she
04:08.03RagestormThe problem is, it stands to reason that An'she would be an elven sun god
04:08.24Ragestormand it would have been simple and sensible for him to be the deity that the highbourne embraced
04:08.46RagestormThe original difference between high elves and night elves was that high elves were diurnal.
04:09.08RagestormBut that's not the route they took.
04:12.18Bagginswwwell the light
04:12.23Bagginswwand the light
04:12.29Bagginswwnot pefect
04:12.54Bagginswwbut highborne did embrace the divine light faith
04:13.11Bagginswwjust speculating here though
04:15.12RagestormThis would have also provided a simpler explanation for blood elf paladins: they were paladins of An'she.
04:16.02BagginswwI like it
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04:17.00RagestormBut An'she=the Light
04:17.06RagestormCould work
04:18.46RagestormAlso, the Holy Light philosophy as explained doesn't seem to fit in with the naaru and the draenei.
04:20.31Bagginswwbesides interestingly its said the church's early beliefs were lost during the first, second and third wars
04:20.38Bagginswwif anyone argued any other philosophies
04:20.40Bagginswwtheyare gone
04:20.44Bagginswwan'she = god ;)
04:21.18Bagginswwgod being an aspect of an'she or whatever the elves equivalant was
04:22.22RagestormWhich would fit nicely into alliance between the elves and Arathor.
04:22.37Ragestormthe elves wound up diffusing some of their beliefs.
04:25.54RagestormThis would still allow for the Sunwell and whatever other developments
04:26.10RagestormWe should write this up and send it to Metzen.
04:28.06Bagginswwhmm his maygos post, I'd say non editorial
04:28.20Bagginswwheh, ya
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04:50.19Bagginswwadded the minor relgions there
04:50.31Bagginswwif someone happens to look up "diety" it will lead there
04:50.52RagestormSatyr Origins again
04:52.33RagestormI'm going to call it  a night.
04:52.38RagestormFeel free to ban him
04:53.12Bagginswwalthough I' not convinced that's an editorial article :p
04:54.06RagestormShort ban for ignoring repeating talk policy warnings and making stupid comments.
04:54.31Bagginswwsounds good to me :p
04:54.35RagestormAlthough if that last one were official policy, Dotted would have been permabanned long ago.
04:55.03RagestormOh shut up
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04:55.15Dottedno u
04:55.24RagestormGood night <bows>
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04:55.38Dottedoff again to do additional cleaning
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05:22.10Bagginswwok he did it
05:22.13Bagginswwhe's going to get a ban
05:33.16pcjis there something wrong with your keyboard baggins lol
05:43.27Bagginswwhis page
05:43.47Bagginswwwas causing the keyboard to run slowly
05:43.53BagginswwI couldn't even really see what I was typing
05:44.21BagginswwI tried to fix alot of the missed text.~~~~
05:44.31Bagginswwbut eh... misse dsome
05:47.38Bagginswwsomeone want to change known vandals table to known violations?
05:48.54pcjuh it already is
05:49.12Bagginswwhmm at the top of thepage it says "vandal"
05:49.20Bagginswwwhen I was editing in rolandius on the list
05:50.21Bagginswwhe doesn't seme to understand that its more than just moving, things but goes beyond that...
05:50.39Bagginswwoh and I an blame some of my typing on lack of sleep
05:50.50BagginswwI've been up for almost 20 hours :p
05:50.59BagginswwI think I only slept 3 hours
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06:07.57Bagginswwis haetera or murmer actually "worshipped"?
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09:52.04SeverinAndrewsHello everyone
09:53.15SeverinAndrewsOnce again nobody here?
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13:35.43SeverinAndrewsWhat's this infobot is doing here?
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16:56.46Adysmorning Kirkburn
17:01.17KirkburnGetting revved up for next weekend?
17:03.09foxlitYou should wear a wikia-ad tshirt, kirk!
17:25.39pcjYeah, one which shows the comparison between New Monaco and monobook
17:29.27pcji just wanted to point out again
17:30.39Kirkburnfoxlit, I have several :P
17:31.40KirkburnI'll wear the WoWWiki though
17:32.17KirkburnI think it has the Diablo logo on too ...
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17:39.41foxlitI think you can do something really nice with logos being cut by google ads :)
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17:56.42Bagginswwnot much
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18:05.30RagestormBagginsww, I think this situation with Rolandius has taught us some valuable lessons/
18:05.47Bagginswwnot the first time this has happened :p
18:06.19Bagginswwif yo mean content removal sort of stuff :p
18:06.35RagestormFirstly, Being bold is all well and good, of you were here for the arguments that shaped policy.
18:06.42RagestormIf you new, frak being bold.
18:07.06BagginswwI agree there
18:07.10RagestormSecond, we only know what the heck everyone else is saying about half the time.
18:07.35Bagginswwyes, i've run into that a few times
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18:07.54RagestormAnd fourth, I think for one I'd like a retcon
18:08.01Ragestormdealing with Eternals.
18:09.11BagginswwI'd like an update if that's what you mean?
18:09.48RagestormI don't care if it's an update, retcon, a massacre or a fish.
18:09.57RagestormSome word would be nice.
18:10.11Bagginswwbeyond random references in later sources ;p
18:10.38RagestormWhich are then blown out by a lore-end-all source that is never updated.
18:10.40foxlitWorld of /care :)
18:11.30Bagginsww"lore-end-all" which Blizzard says in other places is just another source of lore :p, and in other interviews the games are the true "end-all"
18:12.16RagestormJust so we're clear, I was referring to the Warcraft encyclopedia.
18:12.22Bagginswwwhich I was too
18:12.48RagestormApparently, after they posted it, people asked why they were bothering because WoWWiki was there.
18:13.03RagestormThese people were subsequently banned from the forums
18:13.12RagestormAnd the encyclopedia was never updated.
18:13.38Bagginswwbanned? they must have done more than that
18:13.47Bagginswwlike break some kind of policy
18:13.51Bagginswwthat kind of thing
18:14.33RagestormThe comments were in the vein of "why are you bothering when everyone goes to WoWWiki because they're better anyway" or something like that."
18:15.04Bagginswwok that probably does breach something in the terms of use
18:15.08RagestormThese same people found no souccour from me, as I was NOT pleased to discover the lack of encyclopedia updates.
18:16.03foxlit"you suck", by itself, breaches no policy :)
18:16.10KirkburnI have an email from Rolandius btw
18:16.25Fisker-"Your mother"
18:16.30RagestormAlright them
18:16.33Bagginswwoh and its somewhat unclear but there is definitely some kind of difference between faith and Eternals.. not all faiths are Eternals according to later books in the series
18:16.41KirkburnIt's long.
18:16.45foxlitis your father, Fisker-.
18:16.50Fisker-no u
18:17.32BagginswwSince the release of the first Warcraft game, the lore of the Warcraft universe has been evolving and expanding at an incredible rate. Today, Warcraft lore is spread across four games and three expansions as well as a number of novels, a pen-and-paper roleplaying game, and even a manga series. Now you can find all there is to know about Warcraft in one official source of all things Warcraft: The Warcraft Encyclopedia.
18:18.16Bagginswwgenerally speaking we need website citations to be dated...
18:18.42RagestormThe two things I want to ask Metzen: are you going to do anything with An'she, and when are you updating?
18:18.43Bagginswwas would be the case in most if not all university citation methods :p
18:18.52Bagginswwhah ha
18:19.23Bagginswwits funny when other sources update things faster than it does :p
18:19.36Camicio2REAL LOL
18:19.47Bagginswwme thinks they just gave up on it... and decided to just update things with books, game, etc...
18:19.59Bagginswwthe only real update they did was extend the timeline
18:20.10Bagginswwon history of warcraft, and its still flawed
18:20.13RagestormStill, it confirmed that WotA was fully confirmed.
18:20.42foxlitdo we have any confirmation on that?
18:20.46Bagginswwthey have confirmed that series several times heh
18:22.08Bagginswwbesides the only way to know all there is to know about warcraft is to own everything there is to know about warcraft :p unless they plan to put up copies of the books...
18:22.43Bagginswwencyclopedias are hardly a place to go if you want to know everything there is to know on a subject :p
18:23.51BagginswwYou'd need research in journals, thesises, books etc to get a good idea of what subject is about, and what people are saying about it
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18:25.14Bagginswwbut ya I'd vote for free copies of the books for everyone ;)
18:25.20Bagginswwin nice searchable pdf
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18:35.11RagestormIf we're ever bought out by Blizzard, that should be a condition.
18:35.52Bagginsww see some of rolandius edits just don't make sense why would he put aku'mai under anciences, god or anything related...
18:37.17Bagginswwits like he went about sticking anything and everything on any page that was even remotely related in some way :p
18:37.26Bagginswwsame thing he did on burning legion page...
18:37.36Bagginswwwhich I don't even want to begin trying to clean up...
18:37.53BagginswwI' thinking of just moving out the bottom section to a strict speculation page...
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18:58.00RagestormWhich section?
19:06.59KirkburnOne of the more interesting GIFs I've seen -
19:09.57pcjit's one of those shocker gifs isn't it
19:10.15pcjyou look at weird stuff kirkburn
19:10.29KirkburnJust saw it on a forum, is all
19:10.38KirkburnSurprised me it was a gif
19:28.13RagestormKirkburn, whatever will we do with you?
19:28.33RagestormMoreover, what am I going to do with the Illidari article?
19:34.38KasoKirkburn, i think thats going to give me a seizure
19:35.18RagestormThen stop watching it.
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19:48.56Dottedi seriously need a random timer saying that every once in a while when Ragestorm is online :P EPIC RAGE STORM IS EPIC!
19:48.59Dottedaw he quit
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19:54.50JimdinventorGood day, folks!  I am going to work on implementing "Passive", "Racial", and "Racial Passive" into Abilitytip today.
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20:14.55RagestormHey, Dotted.
20:15.23Dottedyou missed: [+Dotted]: i seriously need a random timer saying that every once in a while when Ragestorm is online :P EPIC RAGE STORM IS EPIC!
20:15.29Dottedalso hey Ragestorm
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20:15.55Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:15.57Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:15.58Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:15.59Dottedalso hey sweetie
20:15.59Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:16.20Fisker-jeg skal skide Dotted
20:16.22RagestormI've never seen the good in that. Ruins a perfectly good trout.
20:16.36Dottedsends some DDoS in Ragestorm's direction
20:19.32Dotted::: L RON HARALD - BRÆNNE DÆK : 02:31 : 128kbps : Stereo :::
20:21.04Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:21.11Dotted::: L RON HARALD - BRÆNNE DÆK : 02:31 : 128kbps : Stereo :::
20:21.11Fisker-skrid nu med det lorte pis musik
20:21.23Fisker-fucking win
20:21.38Dotted::: Headhunterz vs Wildstylez - Blame It On The Music : 05:24 : 320kbps : Joint Stereo :::
20:21.55Fisker-alt er bedre end l ron harald
20:22.53Dotted::: Avril Lavigne - Girlfriend : 03:37 : 256kbps : Joint Stereo :::
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20:34.56Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
20:35.07Dottedstabs Fisker- in the face
20:36.22Fisker-slaps Dotted around a bit with a large trout
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20:42.18RagestormStop wasting the fish.
20:42.34pcjtrout is terrible anyway
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21:11.09DiscordktHas anyone done the new Fire Festival yet?
21:17.45DiscordktAre the old quests still available to click on the flames?
21:18.26pcjI don't know
21:18.36pcjThey've changed them around a bit
21:19.05Discordkt:P  I was doing some edits on the fire festival page and i'm running around doing the flames, but all i see is you give incense to little dudes... no clicking on bonfires.
21:23.58pcjyeah you still can click on them
21:24.28pcjthat's what the listing of bonfires at the bottom of is for
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21:25.11DiscordktAt the top of the page, do those quests still exist which have you go get 4 fires each?
21:29.42JimdinventorIf a "construct" (a type of template that performs a basic function) is not present in WoWWiki, can I 1) make it?  2) ask an admin to install it?  or 3) sulk and then move on?  I speak specifically of {{lc:}}.
21:31.39Jimdinventorhmmm, says here {{lc:}} is in MediaWiki 1.5+..  I thought that was us...
21:32.10foxlitI'm pretty sure we have {{lc:}}
21:32.27AdysWe dont
21:32.32Adyswe do have {{#lc:}} though
21:32.46foxlitAnd if it works for me that's because...
21:32.58Adysthats because you always want to be different
21:33.57pcj{{lc:}} works fine
21:34.13Adyswe prob got both
21:34.28foxlitWould you like a minute to get your story straight? :)
21:34.30CorganAdys :D
21:34.50AdysCorgan D:
21:35.06JimdinventorFoxlit was right -- we have lc:, and I had an error in my syntax :-)
21:35.20JimdinventorThanks everyone for setting me straight.
21:35.36Adysthis is your last warning, next time you're banned for having bad syntax Jimdinventor
21:35.50foxlitOn the other hand {{#lc:}} doesn't work
21:35.50JimdinventorI'll never syn again!
21:35.57AdysOh man, compilers should have that kind of stuff
21:36.18Adys"Error on line 581: You got three tries left"
21:37.08Kirkburn|afkparser tags don't all /need/ the # iirc, but it's a good idea to use them
21:38.14pcjIt's a good idea to floss your teeth daily, and I don't do that either
21:39.09Adysyou dont?
21:39.14Adysyou're out of here thats it
21:40.36Kirkburn|afkIt's hard enough remembering to brush them :P
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21:44.33Kirkburn|afkRemind me who's at WWI next week
21:44.57Kirkburn|afkPerhaps we should create a wiki page for it?
21:45.04Adysgourra is coming i think
21:45.04Kirkburn|afk(the meetup)
21:45.26Adyswhy, you really think people care enough about europe to come here? :P
21:45.54Kirkburn|afkheh, well, afaik a few of the UI people will be here
21:46.04Kirkburn|afkBut I've yet to check up on it
21:46.19Kirkburn|afkOoh, thunder. /me runs to the window
21:48.10Adysdont suicide just because its raining Kirkburn|afk ...
21:48.24pcjadys it's not like he has a choice
21:48.30pcjhe drowns just by looking up
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21:51.43Kirkburn|sleep^ I may be gone some time...
21:51.57Kirkburn|sleepruns back to the window
21:52.07Jimdinventornighty night, man
21:54.19pcjis he gone
21:54.42foxlitThis "every horde settlement" thing is a lie
21:56.21pcjhow so
21:58.48JimdinventorWewt.  Halfway done, implementing the (Racial Passive) condition to Infobox_ability.
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22:08.27kd3sort question... "von Stromhearth". v or S?
22:09.37Jimdinventor(so you don't feel ignored: ) I don't know.
22:21.04foxlitFisker-: bubblekill!
22:21.39Jimdinventorbubble wrap!  *happy popping sounds can be heard*
22:21.51Fisker- <-massive win
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22:39.40JimdinventorI'm struggling with a concept.  I believe there's some way to define a temporary variable inside a page.  Does anyone know about this?
22:40.52foxlitthere isn't
22:41.01foxlitOr some things would be a lot easier :)
22:41.13JimdinventorI concur.
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23:15.37pcjThere is, but WoWWiki doesn't have it
23:16.16JimdinventorI'll live. :-)
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