IRC log for #wowwiki on 20080311

00:00.03Adyslevels -1
00:00.33foxlitNo, that last part
00:00.33kd3that'd be a fun sight to see... though something tells me a level 30 zoning into naxx would aggro half the instance from the door
00:00.56Adysfoxlit, what i meant is
00:01.12foxlitused_level = max(own_level, player_level + 3)?
00:01.21Adysa boss is always "as tough as a mob clvl+3"
00:01.52Adysbut this clvl, which is the virtual level, is ignored if the real level of that boss (only known serverside) is superior to it
00:02.13Kasokd3, proxim aggro doesnt scale *that* much
00:02.26Adysdont make me explain aggro proximities :(
00:02.30Kasoi had a level 1 in naxx on the ptr, went around killing grubs
00:02.59kd3joke, joke... I know full well they wouldn't aggro the first pulls.
00:03.10foxlitIt's capped, more likely :P
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00:03.38Adyscaptain serious is not happy
00:03.47foxlitI DEMAND VENGEANCE!
00:04.01foxlitkd3 is clearly a pacifist :)
00:04.29kd3or tabbed out
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00:04.38Adysi need to fix that bug
00:04.48AdysI just got a 1500 lines playback on rejoin
00:05.17Adysanyhow, brb telling my lawyer
00:10.51Adyskd3: Where's the burning crusade downloader on the acct management page :/
00:11.14Adysoh there it was, hidden
00:11.57kd3below the buttons. account information box, account type
00:12.53Adys1.18gb of something im too lazy to find on my hd
00:14.03Adysthe trial version is light now?
00:14.16kd3it's a special streamed client iirc
00:14.24Adyswtf, since when?
00:14.28AdysThe Streaming version of the World of Warcraft Client is intended for trial purposes only, as it streams large portions of the game world and other game data over your internet connection instead of loading data from your hard drive.
00:14.36|Pixel|ça fait un bout de temps
00:14.38kd3couple of months?
00:14.38|Pixel|faut se réveiller
00:14.47|Pixel|elle est bien ta caverne ?
00:14.56|Pixel|j'espère que t'as tout le confort dedans au moins
00:14.59Adysmanque la tele mais a part ca oui
00:15.25|Pixel|et sinon à terme, il semble qu'il y ait des rumeurs pour que le client streaming passe en version "normale"
00:15.41Adysooh? :o
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00:15.49Adysdes rumeurs hein?
00:16.25Adyswe're talking about wotlk features kd3
00:16.47Amarandehmm, wonder how people install the game on a new computer now then
00:17.05foxlitin CD drive
00:17.10Amarandenot everyone bought the discs, foxlit :S
00:17.22foxlitYou can't get WoW any other way
00:17.25kd3you've still gotta install the full version to play the whole game
00:17.32AdysAmarande:  they install it, patch it to 2.3, figure they forgot to install bc, install bc, download new patch, figure they downloaded the wrong locale
00:17.52AdysI do it like that at least
00:17.54Amarandeactually, it used to be that the trial version was the full game
00:18.09Amarandewhat's ridiculous is that your account page gives you a link to download the BC upgrade patch, but not the base game it needs :)
00:18.12Adysyes thats why I was surprised its a streaming version now
00:18.20Adysdoesnt here
00:18.27Adysdidnt check EU
00:19.05Adysfull client, bc upgrade, bc 2.0 upgrade
00:19.20Amarandeare the trial people even going to be able to upgrade to the full client via download, or are they going to be told to visit a fine retailer? :|
00:19.30Amarandelike "fine" is a good word for most retailers these days LOL
00:19.46kd3^ full client
00:21.04|Pixel|01:17 <@foxlit> You can't get WoW any other way
00:21.18|Pixel|haven't seen Adys's reply :P
00:21.29|Pixel|Adys: wai hein
00:21.31|Pixel|faut pas chercher
00:21.32Kasowait..? Amarande, theres a difference between trial and full client?
00:21.42Adyskaso, its been a while
00:21.43|Pixel|Kaso: trial *streaming* client, yes
00:21.46Adyswake up dude.
00:21.57KasoStreaming? what is this witchcraft
00:21.57|Pixel|Adys: genre
00:22.23AdysKaso: Means they dont play wow, they watch youtube vids of others playing it
00:23.52Adysdoes the full client still accept trial accounts?
00:24.15kd3ya. the download link you mentioned earlier recommended the full client for people on crappy connections
00:24.28AdysI dont suppose streaming client accepts full accounts :)
00:24.46|Pixel|Adys: ta phrase est bancale en anglais :P
00:25.00Adysje suis bancal en anglais
00:25.10|Pixel|c'est dommage ça
00:25.20|Pixel|enfin, j'ai compris ce que tu voulais dire, je pense
00:25.25|Pixel|et la réponse est "non"
00:25.29Adysbah :(
00:25.51Adysjvais ptet me prendre un trial account tiens.
00:26.23Adysca me parait bien plein de trucs interessant le client en streaming :)
00:26.39|Pixel|j'avoue que ça m'a vaguement amusé
00:27.01Fisker-giev sleep :<
00:27.05Adysmoui? :)
00:27.14Fisker-US has hax "as-you-play"-downloader :O
00:27.18AmarandeAdys, you'd want to be on 100M fiber to stream as a full account :S
00:27.25Fisker-doesn't work :(
00:27.35|Pixel|Amarande: wrong :)
00:27.50AdysI dont see what the difference would be from trial to full account
00:27.56Adysapart maybe in dungeons and raids
00:28.25|Pixel|and remember the reason this streaming client is put in "trial" mode is just to do a kind of 'ptr'
00:28.51Adysah ouais quand meme
00:29.13|Pixel|ah bah hé
00:29.29|Pixel|t'imagines pas à quel point ils m'ont fait chier avec ça quand ils l'ont lancé -.-
00:30.00|Pixel|"ça marche paaaaaaaas" "gnuh? de quoi vous parlez ?" "le client streaming marche paaaaaaas!" "heu.... temps mort... *QUEL* client streaming?"
00:30.04foxlitBlizzard is clearly so sick of people messing with their file storage
00:30.14foxlitThat they decided not to let any of it get on people's hard drives :P
00:30.34Adysand yea foxlit
00:30.45foxlitYou want a model? Here's a model; you can save it over Warden's dead body
00:30.49Adystho i can see both the secure part and the huge holes into it
00:31.30foxlitThere aren't very many - and they'd be free to patch in expansion content without people realizing they're doing it
00:31.59foxlitMy poor, poor mac
00:32.11foxlitwow+movie compression = fans are busy
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00:40.44AmarandeAdys: REPAIRING DATA ARCHIVE! :)
00:41.05Amarandethat's what happens to me about half the time I go to log onto GW, lol
00:41.16Amarandeactually, that's one thing I sometimes wish could be set as an automatic
00:41.21Adysi dont play gw
00:41.21Amarandefor WoW, that is
00:41.29Adysi only check the contents out
00:41.35Amarandean option to automatically check the WoW data files as you load, without having to run the repair separately
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00:45.31Amarandekd3: I meant, when you start the game, like GW does
00:45.49Fisker-kd3 !
00:45.52Fisker-chicken soup did not work
00:45.55Fisker-i haet you
00:46.02kd3you said you didn't have any of those
00:46.10Fisker-i didn't
00:46.38Fisker-So i didn't take any chicken soup
00:46.40Fisker-and it didn't work
00:46.46sacarascFisker-: try correcting kd3 with a bladed weapon, i have found it quite effective in getting people to hate me and stop giving me (bad) advice
00:57.11Amarandespeaking of bladed weapons, why do Shadow Daggers show as +0 stats on the armory?
00:57.14Amarandeat least the one I have does
00:57.38AmarandeIn game, it says +17 stam, +11 int, +4mp5, +81 spell dmg
00:58.05Amarande(I've dinged 70 since, but haven't logged out since dinging lol)
01:01.11foxlitRandom enchant
01:01.19foxlitYou got the one of the Elder
01:02.58Amarandeahh, do most random enchant items not show up correctly on the armory?
01:03.22Amarandelike I said, ingame I get those bonuses I noted, but on the armory they all appear as +0 except the spell dmg
01:04.17foxlitNot a clue, not a lot of those around me :(
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03:03.48Amarandeso, what do you folks think of the apparent fact that Blizzard is pushing DPS casters further and further down the totem pole in arenas?
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03:29.18AdysAmarande: PvP is dead? :p
03:29.47Amarandedidn't you say PvE was dead before? :S
03:30.05Adysyes, so? :)
03:30.16Amarandeapparently, give it a few more months and arena will be like GW PvP
03:30.27Amarandewhere melee are the only true DPS and casters are all relegated to support roles
03:31.10AdysThe game currently lives on a remake of pvp through arenas mostly, and a remake of pve through non hardcore "hardcore" content and overly easy "casual" content
03:33.31Amarandeand apparently they think it a good thing if arenas degenerate into mainly a bash-and-slash
03:38.10Amarandeof course, we really know who wins in this game
03:38.15Amarandewhoever QQ's loudest on the blizzard boards :P
03:41.16Amarande" I think the [BG suckage] issue started when too many horde came to realize they could get free honor off of BG's by going afk"
03:41.27Amarandesince when were things horde's fault? I thought the little kids usually played alliance
03:44.49KasoI love how the simple distinctions between whether you liked blue or red at the charater creation turns into such ideological hatered
03:45.29Amarandewell, there's mature players on both sides, to be sure :)
03:45.42Amarandehowever, the players who are not, tend to choose Alliance more than Horde, as a generalism
03:46.04Amarande(this may however be because more players in general go alli ... lol)
03:46.41Amarandeanyway, to get back to the State of Azeroth PvP:
03:46.43KasoI think in the beginning that was fairly true, but now i believe the differences are mostly due to numbers, more alliance, more retards
03:46.44Amarande <--- thoughts?
03:47.24AdysKaso: What differences :)
03:47.35Adyspeople just assume there is a difference
03:48.06Amarandeunlike most blizzard board stuff, this message seems actually to look pretty cogent, sadly
03:48.27AdysAmarande: that message reminds me of a blog post
03:48.57Adys"Why _____ willl _____ the next _____"
03:49.15Amarandeactually, it does agree with some things I've always thought WoW needs
03:49.31KasoPerceved differences then, statistically h/a have the same amount of retards :
03:49.51Amarandebasically boiling down to what in GW we called "warrior hate" (and even GW's lopsided favorance of warrior DPS was balanced to some considerable degree by warrior hate skills, while this is not as much the case in WoW)
03:50.11Adysnah kaso, peole just assume theres more retards in the alliance like people assume google is evil because they are a company
03:50.17Adysright Fisker- ?
03:51.33Amarandealso in GW on this regard, one of the things they did better was that there were some actual balance checks on the ability to remove caster buffs/debuffs easily
03:52.26Amarandethere is a definite problem in that caster anything = oops did I just cast a simple instant cast dispel that has only the GCD and a small mana cost?
03:52.46Amarandewhile warrior anything = oops sorry, you're stuck with that weakness for the fixed duration
03:53.35Amarandealso melee classes have all those "and disables any spell of the same school for _____ seconds" goodies
03:54.05Amarandemeanwhile, casters don't have the same for melee, nor does the swing timer ever suffer from pushback. aren't these organic flaws in the system?
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03:59.07AmarandeNot that GW was lacking in its own overpowered healer spells to help kick offensive casters down heh
03:59.18KasoI wholehartedly agree with pushback
03:59.51AmarandeGW has nice fun things like , which I personally always wanted to rename "Aw Hon Everything Will Be Okay"
03:59.54KasoIt's always bugged me how melee doesnt lose any dps from taking damage (hell warrors even gain dps) where as casters come to an almost stop
04:01.15Amarande(For those unfamiliar with GW, the 'base' max health in PvP is 480, so those numbers aren't as small as they look ... plus Monks get an attribute called Divine Favor that gives them bonus healing on every spell they cast on a friendly, even if that spell didn't normally have healing as an effect)
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04:02.11AmarandeIndeed. At least in Guild Wars, there was no pushback, and many interrupt skills didn't disable ... though there were a lot more interrupt skills as well, and a lot of times an interrupted spell was put on its cooldown anyway
04:02.58Amarande(and cooldowns in GW are normally several times longer than in WoW)
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04:04.28AmarandeIt starts to seem as if the devs actually think arenas are better as swordfests than with lots of casting
04:04.28PanSolaheh, nice to see someone familiar with GW here doing comparisons (-:
04:04.28Adyswhen an application's window warning starts off half off the screen, it's annoying
04:04.50Adyswhen an application's window warning starts off half 1px off the screen, but right where you need it inside of it, GAHHAHHHHHHH
04:05.08Adysright that might not be very clear but I just had to rant
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04:06.02Amarandehowever, the guy has the right of it when it comes to warrior+support vs. mage+support
04:06.16Amarandewhat happens is that the supports equal each other AND THE MAGE
04:07.17Amarandeit's like a chess-board where each player's got say four real (not pawns) pieces around, one player is able to hold all 4 of his opponents' pieces with 3 of theirs and the other piece is free to be a wrecking ball
04:08.33Amarandeand yes, -X armor doesn't scale right either
04:08.48AmarandeI found that one out the hard way while trying to do that damned quest up at Quel'Lithien lodge in EPL
04:09.17KasoI dont understand the reasoning behind havings such small hp values, 4800, 48000, sound much cooler than 480, plus they allow you more grainuality with effects, with 480 the smallest change you can have is 0.21% with 48000 you can go down to 0.0021%
04:09.38PanSolaKaso: and 480000000000 sound much cooler than whatever WoW's norm is
04:10.18PanSolaand you can get down to 0.0000000000021%
04:10.44Kasoof course theres a sensible limit, but i think in the thousands range "feels" right
04:10.46PanSolaso let's ask Blizzard to increase teh HP max
04:10.58AmarandeI don't think there is a HP max heh
04:10.59Adyskaso, often in games health values are designed by how long the betas are
04:11.01Adyslook at wow
04:11.28Adysat max lvl during early betas youd have 1000hp and you were a god :)
04:11.41Adysthen they dont have any reason to downrank these values
04:12.05PanSolaso basically WoW got HP inflation
04:12.09Kasowell yes and no, this isnt quite the same thing but i've recently being doing some programming with raw pixel drawing and have been getting pissed how the smallest i can draw is 1/1280 of screen width, which is the same sorta issue if you get what i means
04:12.10PanSolaand level inflation
04:12.49PanSolaheck, in Magic the Gathering, 20 HP players takes 30 minutes to kill
04:13.04Kasocan you do fractions of a hp?
04:13.15Kasoin damage/healing
04:13.37PanSolathey get rounded.  But graniularity below 1% just doesn't "feel right", to me at least
04:13.46sacarascPanSola: 30 minutes can be a quick game (2 white healy decks can take hours ;o)
04:13.59AmarandeI still remember the old Microprose Magic computer game
04:14.05PanSolawhite + green
04:14.25PanSolaneed a touch of blue to reload the library d-:
04:14.30Amarandeat the end of one game I won, both me and computer had more life left than we started with
04:14.35AmarandeI think it was me 74, computer 25
04:14.46sacarascthough i've had a 3 player game where i won on the 4th turn
04:14.56Kasountil you star getting over 5 digits most users shouldnt have a problem dealing with those figures in short term memory, so imo you've got stuff to gain and not much to loose.
04:15.07Amarandeas you may guess, the game ended when the computer decked
04:16.05AmarandeIt was a deadlock game. I had two of those enchants out that give you +1 life at (end of turn, was it? I forget, but every turn) for every card more than four in your hand
04:16.09PanSolaKaso: it's not a "memory" issue
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04:16.16Amarandeand a number of Serra Angels on field, which were my strongest enemy
04:16.20Amarandeer, strongest creature
04:16.28KasoWhat is it then?
04:16.34Amarandethe computer had only 3/x and weaker creatures out, except for an Elder Land Wurm.
04:16.44PanSolaKaso: inflation
04:16.58Amarandeboth of us had artifact/white, with no creature removal, and you can tell what this situation leads to
04:17.26Kasoinflation isnt a problem in my mind as long as everything inflates at the same rate, the problem is when you have to start dealing with figures larger than you can properlly visualize
04:17.38KasoYou hit fred for 837494834 damage
04:17.48PanSolaKaso: if everyhting is inflating the same rate, might as well not bother with it in the first place
04:18.00Amarandeyeah, I wonder what kind of damage raid bosses at level 80 will do :S
04:18.24Amarandenot to mention HP ...
04:18.40AmarandeI mean, let's take a typical mid-boss from a difficult classic raid dungeon. How about Grand Widow Faerlina?
04:18.54Kasoexcept the grainuality benifits you get from having the higher figures, which brings us back to my opinion that it isnt a problem until you start getting to sizes you cant deal with them easil in memory
04:18.55sacarascHojimachong: only 452million?
04:19.06KasoFaerlina is an awesome fight
04:19.12PanSolawell my point is the grainularity is pointless
04:19.16PanSolamy *other* point
04:19.26PanSolatoo fine a grainularity has no benefits
04:19.45sacarascnever been to Naxx ;(
04:19.47AmarandeShe had 1.5M HP, big attack is Rain of Fire which is 8k over the four ticks.
04:19.56Kasoi wouldnt say its entirely pointless, but ill agree that too much is no benefit
04:20.01Kasoi remeber the first time we killed her i was MCing and my vent broke, did it though macro spams
04:20.02Amarandenow, let's compare a mid-boss in BC
04:20.16AmarandeI suppose if we used Naxx for a reference point in classic I'm going to have to use BT here
04:20.38PanSolaKaso: anotehr factor that is probalby peculiar in GW is degeneration/regeneration
04:20.42Hojimachongso Illidan and his puny 6.8 Mil... bah!
04:20.48PanSolawhich is capped at plus/minus 20 health per second
04:20.58PanSolahaving the max too high makes it pointless
04:21.07Amarandeok, how about Teron Gorefiend
04:21.08PanSolamakes degen a non-viable tactic
04:21.36Kasowell hopefully in a well designed world that cap would inflate at the same rate as max hp
04:22.02PanSolainflation is just about the worst thing to use as a soltuion to problems >_>
04:22.27PanSolayou are making it sound like "Oohhh~ pretty big numbers"
04:22.40Amarandenow the raid boss has 4.1M HP, now the DoT does about 3k *initial* damage in addition to four seconds totalling 10k+ ...
04:22.43PanSolawhich lowers the general preception of the intelligence of players )-:
04:22.51Amarandewonder what level 80 raid bosses will do
04:22.58Amarandeor even KJ, for that matter
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04:23.24Amarandehas KJ been reached yet on the PTR?
04:23.32Kasoi think a point which we can both agree on is that too low order of magnitude is bad, too high too bad. And i personally feel the "sweet spot" fits around the 1000s range.
04:23.50KirkburnSky2042, reverted your ambox change
04:23.51Amarandealso to note about GW, btw
04:24.15Amarandeis that more stuff revolves around the degen mechanic than first meets the eye
04:24.25KirkburnIt's supposed to be page wide, your change made it left-align
04:24.43Amarandealmost everything that would be a DoT in WoW is degen in GW, so yeah, that low max is quite important
04:24.45Kasois degen significantly different from dot mechanic?
04:25.15AmarandeKaso: in certain ways
04:25.25Amarandemainly how multiple DoTs stack
04:25.35Amarandein WoW you have separate DoTs that each deal their separate ticks
04:25.44Amarandein GW, most things, like I said, that would be DoTs do degen instead
04:26.09Amarandeand all the degen from things affecting a player or mob is -added-, all that counts is the capped total
04:26.35KirkburnSky2042, it is not supposed to go next to tooltips
04:26.36Amarandealso things that would be HoTs, conversely are regen.
04:27.08Amarandeand instead of having to worry about the relative timing of HoT and DoT ticks in tight situations, degen and regen cancel on a one to one basis
04:27.31KirkburnAdys, yo
04:27.34Amarandeyou give something a heal that gives +5 regen and they're poisoned (which is -4 degen), it's no different from any other +1 regen situation
04:27.39KirkburnI'm back near San Fran now
04:27.47Hojimachonghow was Austin?
04:27.54KirkburnSlightly crappy hotel room, but free net :P
04:27.58KirkburnHojimachong, awesome
04:28.05AmarandeWish I had a laptop to take advantage of net when I travel :S
04:28.13Hojimachonggood to hear
04:28.13Kirkburn(omg, I've not been to RW in a while o_O )
04:28.14PanSolaKB: why are you coming back to SF instead of just going straight home?
04:28.18AdysWish I had a laptop
04:28.22KirkburnPanSola, I'm in the office this week
04:28.27Adysa decent one :(
04:28.31AmarandeKirkburn: speaking of tooltips, any idea why I consistently have issues with them, especially when there's more than one near each other on a page?
04:28.32PanSolawelcome back to the internet btw
04:28.41KirkburnHojimachong, SXSW was really cool, though having reports about me on the net is .... new
04:28.51KirkburnAmarande, in what way?
04:28.52HojimachongI can imagine!
04:28.53KirkburnPanSola, :D
04:28.57Hojimachongwell, not really
04:29.01AmarandeI fairly often have problems where I mouse over a tooltip and get the wrong item's info, or I just get "Error, this wasn't meant to have a tooltip yadda"
04:29.13KirkburnAmarande, ooh, something for pcj_2 there :)
04:29.26Amarandeusually happens if I'm trying to browse more than one tooltip on a list page, like what a quartermaster has to offer
04:29.26KirkburnIt's a caching thing
04:29.27Hojimachongit happens in the Armory as well... odd
04:29.39Adyspcj_2 is avoiding work
04:29.44pcjraiding atm
04:29.46KirkburnHojimachong, good to see you hear btw
04:29.53Amarandeis it a "this site is designed for IE and Firefox may not work as well" sort of thing?
04:29.56HojimachongKurkburn: Thank you, glad to be here
04:29.57Amarandeor is it not browser related?
04:30.13AdysNo its mediawiki sucking to be fair
04:30.17KirkburnPanSola, will I see you in the office?
04:30.31KirkburnDunno which day(s) you're in
04:31.35PanSolaMon Thu
04:32.16KirkburnThen I shall see you again thursday :)
04:32.27KirkburnFlight home on sat
04:32.48PanSolaI think you left some headphones in the hotel.  I gave them to Sannse
04:34.18KirkburnOh, thanks
04:34.48AmarandeWish people looked after my stuff like that
04:35.02AmarandeLast time I traveled long distance was when I went to Dragon*Con and I managed to lose my digital camera :S
04:35.07KirkburnWe need a {{welcome}} bot btw
04:35.11PanSolaI didn't look over it.  It was piled on top of my luggage so I gotta move it out of the way d-:
04:35.27PanSola*look after*
04:36.00KirkburnI have so far only lost my Creative Zen's pouch (somehow)
04:36.31KirkburnYay that the ZCP project is nearly done :)
04:36.58Amarandeon the good side
04:37.10AmarandeI now have a 10.1 mp camera and would only have had a 7.2 if I had not lost the old one
04:37.36Kirkburno_O ... that's a lot
04:37.43KirkburnApparently I need a new camera
04:37.46Amarandeyeah, this one I gotta be careful with
04:37.51Amarandeif I take a shot that includes my computer screen
04:37.54Amarandeyou can read what's on it :S
04:40.48*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Bibi] by ChanServ
04:40.50AdysDIE JPG DIE AAH
04:40.54AdysDIE BIBI DIE
04:40.59Hojimachonglore/meta-game question
04:41.13KirkburnHojimachong, sup?
04:41.30Bibistfu Adys
04:41.31HojimachongIf Sargeras is ever a boss, how will he be weakened enough for a raid to stand a chance?
04:41.41Hojimachonglike, will he be possessed in a body again?
04:42.04Amarande*shrug* I'd imagine Sargeras would be a final-final raid boss added very late in WOTLK anyway
04:42.05AdysHe will be weakened in all of blizzard's style and glory
04:42.10Amarandelike how Kil'Jaeden was added in BC
04:42.27AdysMore seriously, they always come up with excuses to weaken gods
04:42.30sacarascit's still "will be added" really ;p
04:42.30Amarandeafter all, they seem to have a rank relationship like that, going by the Aldor turnin items
04:42.31HojimachongSargeras has to be the final-final raid boss, if he's ever implemented
04:42.51Amarande*washes mouth out with soap, since I'm a Scryer*
04:43.31Sky2042Kirkburn: no, it's not. but it's broken inline. period. there's no reason for it to appear broken.
04:43.45AmarandeBut probably, he'll be a level 80 raid boss who will be seen by one or two guilds per server and then forgotten.
04:43.48AmarandeLike Kil'Jaeden.
04:44.05KirkburnSky2042, don't put it inline is the simple fix :)
04:44.09sacarascyou think that many people will get to him, Amarande?
04:44.15pcjerror this wasn't meant to have a tooltip isn't a bug in the code itself, merely someone did the {{loot}} tag wrong
04:44.17Sky2042and all the laurlybot tags which are inline?
04:44.23Hojimachongwell, when WotLK comes out, I'm sure people will still want to cut their teeth vs. Illidan and KJ
04:44.34Hojimachongsort of like Kel'Thuzad isn't *totally* forgotten
04:44.38Sky2042not to mention, {{Stub/Strat}}
04:44.44KirkburnThey aren't supposed to be, and ... well ... can someone make sure laurlybot doesn't do it more? :)
04:45.08KirkburnSection stubs are mostly redundant
04:45.14Amarandesacarasc, I know Fusion is already getting in gear to go to Sunwell as soon as it's out ... they're apparently getting their practice in on the PTR as well
04:45.33KirkburnSky2042, the problem with your change is that it meant they weren't all constant width
04:45.50KirkburnThey reduced to the width of whatever was in the box
04:45.50Amarandemaybe it's just because I'm on Turalyon, but I tend to give Fusion the sort of regard I'd give Nihilum if I was EU
04:46.24KirkburnIt was a nice try but :(
04:46.38Amarandeactually, is there any official yardstick on who the "best" guild in the US is right now?
04:46.44Sky2042setting div to 100% would do itl.
04:46.58Kirkburn100% width?
04:47.16KirkburnHmm, don't think it'd look that great
04:47.34KirkburnThey need to be obviously different to article content
04:47.38Sky2042eh? ambox has a div in it...
04:47.59Sky2042aw nuts, unbuffed blink
04:48.15Sky2042might aas well make it an even20% blizz. nice numbers, ftw!
04:48.24Sky2042- Blink mana cost changed, it's now 21% of base Mana instead of 28% (live). (It was 15% of base mana in the previous build)
04:48.27Kirkburn15% to 21%?
04:48.37Kirkburn28% o_O
04:48.58Sky2042base mana. somewhere in the realm of 600 per blink.
04:49.01KirkburnIt's seriously 28% on live?
04:49.02Sky2042on live.
04:49.20Sky2042base mana, note.
04:49.26KirkburnAye, but still
04:49.35KirkburnThat's mean base mana is <2k
04:49.51Kasobase mana is really tiny
04:49.54Sky2042base mana for mages is somewhere in the realm of 4.5k
04:49.58Sky2042at 70
04:50.07Kirkburn600 at 28% --> 100% is ~2k
04:50.21kd3whee, the quickest assault block ever
04:50.31kd3~30 seconds
04:50.32KirkburnSky2042, :P
04:50.44Adysive been quicker kd3!
04:51.00KirkburnHojimachong, sorry totally missed your question - I hope so
04:51.20Hojimachongit's all good
04:51.29KirkburnSince there will be a fair amount of time for people to go there, it should be far more of the pop % than got to Naxx
04:51.48HojimachongI'm reading about the changes to Blink...
04:51.49Kirkburn(and since it's a bit of a shower of epix now too)
04:52.23Adyskd3: what if you noinclude all of this?
04:52.30Adysit should still protect them
04:52.40KirkburnI read an interesting theory that they're also doing it so they the item stat bump in WotLK won't be as obvious
04:52.59Amarandeor perhaps that they won't need to make WotLK greens be better than top BC epics?
04:53.03kd3sky tried includeonly'ing once and quickly reverted it according to the page history
04:53.12Amarandeand can actually let us use our BC epics till, oh, at least maybe the first instance? :)
04:53.20Sky2042yeah, doesn't work if it's includeonly :(
04:54.11Sky2042Kirkburn: hmm
04:55.02KirkburnAmarande, yeah, same line of thought
04:55.49KirkburnI personally will feel the stat bump, being non-epix person, but since most 70s will be, they'll won't notice it
04:56.11Sky2042ah, Kirkburn, it's an issue with how you copied the code.
04:56.17KirkburnAdys, in time honoured Fiskerdin fashion: ooooooooold!
04:56.28Adysold, but fitting
04:56.32AdysI know its old you silly :P
04:56.54KirkburnDoesn't ever stop Fisker- :/
04:56.55KirkburnSky2042, ?
04:57.17Sky2042wikipedia has a second bit of code to force the ambox to the desired width.
04:57.31Kirkburnlinky linky
04:57.43Sky2042ctrl f ambox
04:57.52PanSolaKB: get on skype will ya? d-:
04:57.58Sky2042the one right underneath the initial class definition.
04:57.59Adyskirk stop fiddling with sky's porn and watch my openwdb
04:58.09Sky2042pr0n > openwdb
04:58.31KirkburnSky2042, ah yeah ... if you wanna test it, try a sandbox though? :)
04:58.57Sky2042i'll have to figure out how to deal with your improvised css xD
04:59.08KirkburnNot sure if it was because I simplified their code, or because theirs changed
04:59.31KirkburnPanSola, rawr
05:00.00Adysleave me him wtf :(
05:00.17AdysIve been trying to get hold of this so i can continue since ages !
05:00.34KirkburnHojimachong, I see Andy is as insane (if not more so) as ever
05:00.45Sky2042save teh Kirkburn!
05:00.45Hojimachongyou have no idea
05:00.53Hojimachongcheck out the card game we made based on Magic the Gathering
05:00.57Hojimachongusing CP characters
05:00.59KirkburnAdys - no :P
05:01.05KirkburnHojimachong, ooh, linky linky
05:01.09AdysIm waiting ><
05:01.20KirkburnI'm tired :(
05:02.14Kirkburn11 hour flight, several Wikia all day meetings, another several hour flight, several hour drive, exhibition, exhibition, another flight, another flight, another drive ... collapse
05:02.26Adysthats nothing
05:02.35Adysive been lying in bed at least since yesterday
05:02.36KirkburnYeah, well, alcohol doesn't help too :P
05:02.37AdysIm tired of it
05:03.56AmarandeLast time I had alcohol was a big double-shot or so of Don Julio in memory of Gary Gygax last week
05:06.28Hojimachongyesss.... I won my CyberNations battle
05:06.43Sky2042ack. zarnks found my page
05:06.58Sky2042congrats Hojimachong! what's your pop?
05:07.06Hojimachongerm... 4000?
05:07.12Hojimachonglowbie tech raids FTW!
05:07.18Sky2042so small xD
05:07.31KirkburnSky2042, you must be so pleased :P
05:07.41Hojimachongforeign aid pl0x??Z??!142?
05:07.43Sky2042Kirkburn: by no means...
05:07.50*** join/#wowwiki Cairen1 (n=Cairenn@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn)
05:07.50*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Cairen1] by ChanServ
05:07.57Hojimachongwhat alliance are you in, Sky?
05:08.01Sky2042Hojimachong: i haven't touched the game in what must be at least 3 or 4 years
05:08.19Sky2042i think i popped a half billion
05:08.51Hojimachongyou don't play anymore?
05:08.54Sky2042but things got repetitive, so i put it down
05:09.11Hojimachongand you haven't gotten rid of your nations technology, soldiers, money, etc. yet?
05:09.46Sky2042oh my
05:09.52Sky2042maybe i'm thinking of a diff game?
05:10.05Hojimachongprobably NationStates?
05:10.19Hojimachongthe more "political" of the nation simulation games
05:10.56Sky2042ah yes, NS
05:12.44Adysbrowser games Hojimachong ?
05:12.52Hojimachongoh yeah
05:13.27Sky2042kd3: btw, nice catch on voldemort there. i was in a similar situation last night
05:13.36Sky2042he got to about 5 contribs
05:13.59kd3wtb the username blacklist finally showing up on the live wiki
05:14.22Sky20421.12 apparently :[
05:14.35Adysxml parsing
05:14.39Adysnamespace locks
05:14.46Adysand also, ajax subcats
05:15.09Adysand a faster connection :/
05:17.11KasoHojimachong, i just looked up CyberNations and was immediately pissed off by the fake google map on the homepage
05:17.27HojimachongI apologize
05:17.35HojimachongIt got me too... quite sneaky
05:17.37Sky2042lol, so true.
05:17.55HojimachongI just bombed three nations... I hope they don't attack back
05:17.59Kasocos first time i clicked it flipped to the next in the slide-show so i though i just miss-clicked
05:18.02Hojimachongoh, that's right, I KILLED ALL THEIR SOLDIERS
05:18.12Hojimachongbombs FTW
05:19.33KirkburnFor 1.12 etc, give the tech team a bit of time to get back into the swing of things
05:19.36Amarandethoughts from Netherstorm
05:19.47AmarandeDo you want a normal bag full of angry blood elves, or a ziploc bag full of angry blood elves? :)
05:19.55KirkburnThere's always :P
05:20.38KirkburnHojimachong, fun card game
05:20.46Hojimachongthanks Kirkburn!
05:20.50KirkburnI should play M:TG again sometime
05:25.36Adyswhen are we getting svg support
05:25.43Hojimachongg'night WoWWikians
05:25.46*** part/#wowwiki Hojimachong (
05:26.07KirkburnAdys, does the rest if wikia support it?
05:26.30Adyssvg support would avoid us having ten thousand icons
05:26.31KirkburnIt wasn't rhetorical
05:26.33Sky2042Adys: yes.
05:26.39AmarandeI just walked through what I thought was a safe spot and instead got jumped by like 5 blood elves that chased me all the way to Area 52 :|
05:26.44KirkburnIn that case, it'll come with the upgrade
05:27.13Sky2042well, excuse me, MW had support for it in like, 1.7 or something, it just requires a setting serverside that TOR claims would break the wiki for a while.
05:27.40Adyssorry what?
05:27.48Adysmisread nvm
05:28.42Adyswhat's with the "You have no items on your watchlist" on
05:29.15Sky2042different account, technically.
05:30.32Sky2042permissions don't transfer either cause of it
05:30.47Adysoh right, its a totally different wiki
05:30.55Sky2042uh huh
05:31.21Sky2042which concerns me, oh mighty Kirkburn, as I fear what happened to SmashWiki's merge might happen to us :o
05:32.10KirkburnWhat's that?
05:32.45KirkburnAdys, only the user database is different (it's unmerged)
05:32.47Sky2042well, people with account from SmashWiki's watchlists disappeared.
05:33.13KirkburnSky2042, ouch
05:33.26KirkburnWas that a known/reported issue?
05:33.30Sky2042i had nothing on mine, so I was fine... others? not so lucky
05:33.37AdysKirkburn: different page
05:33.40Sky2042it was reported; tor claimed to have fixed it :/
05:33.55KirkburnWell yeah, that's an older copy of the database
05:34.12Amarandeok, I hate mobs that are immune to drain life with a passion ... :S
05:34.13KirkburnSky2042, I'll check it out
05:34.16Adysthats what i was saying :P
05:34.18Adysdifferent wiki
05:34.23Amarandeespecially when they are also immune to fear
05:34.29Sky2042which is why i'm bringing it up adys :P
05:34.39KirkburnAdys, well, yeah, only for the purposes of testing
05:34.54Adysaye i just thought at first it was the same wiki with different ui
05:34.58KirkburnImages are shared though
05:35.24Kirkburn(seeing as we have way way way way way way way too many to spend time copying)
05:35.39Adyssee, if we had svg support you'd have less to copy
05:35.46Sky2042Adys: why exactly?
05:35.46Adyskirky when do we get a pretty searchbox :P
05:35.57Amarandespeaking of images
05:35.58KirkburnWhen the upgrade and skin gets done
05:36.10Amarandeanyone know how to make a perl script that takes a bunch of images and glues them together into a bigger one?
05:36.13KirkburnAdys, aren't you seeing the beta site in the monaco skin?
05:36.21Sky2042Kirkburn: no.
05:36.36Sky2042Kirkburn: one of the staffers deleted the admin-skin
05:36.38AdysIm seeing it in the ever so good and pretty wowwiki regular skin
05:37.12AdysSky2042: Svg uses paths to create images, not pixels
05:37.16KirkburnOh, Emil
05:37.17Adysso you can resize them
05:37.37Adyswithout having garbage or artifacts
05:37.44KirkburnSet your skin to Monaco gaming
05:37.45Sky2042ok... still doesn't tell me why we need fewer?
05:37.49KirkburnI just reset it to that as the default
05:38.07Adysall the -22px -24px 48px 16px  etc?
05:38.12Sky2042Kirkburn: can you fix the .css
05:38.13Adysthey'd get replaced eh
05:38.34Sky2042Adys: ok. don't forget, someone has to go around and convert all the images to svg too... how many icons are there?
05:38.50AdysKirkburn:  tell me we are not keeping that skin
05:39.05KirkburnMakes me wonder why I bother writing anything about the beta site
05:39.13KirkburnAdys, check the VP
05:39.17Adystheres a beta site?
05:39.21KirkburnIt wouldn't reduce the size of the image database, seeing as old images aren't deleted
05:39.23Sky2042that is the beta site ;_;
05:39.32Adysi know i was just kidding
05:39.39AdysKirkburn: why? we cant restore them
05:39.50KirkburnDoesn't mean they aren't there
05:40.00Sky2042i found it...
05:40.02Adysbut why not make them get really deleted
05:40.09KirkburnIn 1.12 you can restore them
05:40.16*** join/#wowwiki bastian (
05:40.28Adyswhat for :P
05:40.31KirkburnWell, it's *possible* they do get deleted from the server, but I doubt it
05:40.52KirkburnEmil is a techie btw
05:40.57Adyscant find anything about the beta site in the vp kirk
05:41.06Sky2042that's... rather sad adys.
05:41.17Sky2042ctrl f beta should do it ;(
05:41.32Adysdid you try?
05:41.45*** part/#wowwiki arkanemancer (
05:41.49Sky2042wrong wowwiki?
05:42.06Adysprecise :|
05:42.20KirkburnThe monaco gaming skin -
05:42.29KirkburnDude, why would I announce the beta wiki on the beta wiki? :P
05:42.44Adysthats alot leeter no?
05:43.09KirkburnCheck out the menu system?
05:43.16PanSolaKB: for the irony?
05:43.30KirkburnThe code was revamped a few days back to improve the speed too :)
05:43.32Adysaye kirk looks good, id reduce the font size personally
05:43.35KirkburnPanSola, heh
05:44.07Adys(but seriously, why do these colors even exist?)
05:44.41KirkburnWhy do we have an inverted skin?
05:44.41Adyslast few thing
05:44.52Adysrate this article, share this article
05:44.58Adysyou KNOW what I think of that right?
05:44.58Amarandeyou mean we might have a wowwiki that doesn't say Fusion is still in Blackwing Lair? :)
05:45.03Kirkburn <-- that's a fully developed skin
05:45.55KirkburnAdys, I think you can shush and deal with it?
05:46.09Adysyou want criticism or not?
05:46.33KirkburnIt helps if it's constructive? :)
05:46.44KirkburnThis is a Wikia wide thing btw
05:46.56AdysYeah i noticed
05:47.14KirkburnWhat's wrong with having the links?
05:47.14Adysany way not to put all this under the article anyway? :/
05:47.21Adyslike have it in the sidebar
05:48.07AdysKirkburn: rating articles on a wiki is plain wrong, as for the whole "sharing" thing, meh - people using digg / su / del send it without having links telling them to do so
05:48.24Sky2042Kirkburn: is register edit required on beta?...
05:48.32Sky2042oh wait, nvm
05:48.32KirkburnSky2042, yup
05:48.51KirkburnAdys, Wikia is for people of all abilities
05:49.12Adysyeah yeah, we already went through this ages ago :
05:49.22Adysanyway, dont wanna put it at the sidebar?
05:49.34KirkburnNot my call
05:49.42Adysin x1200 I dont even have half a sidebar up
05:49.59KirkburnThat's cause you're not using any widgets
05:50.13Adysi dont wanna hear a word more
05:50.23KirkburnThe widgets are pretty good now
05:50.33Sky2042of decent use, yes.
05:50.56KirkburnProblem reports is a useful one for admins
05:51.07Adysshout box...?
05:51.11Sky2042yeah, and i have that on SW, even though I'm not an admin :P
05:51.31Sky2042the recentchanges one is pretty useless, tbh
05:51.48KirkburnRecent changes possibly, but the social tools Sitescout is better (realtime RC watching)
05:51.57Sky2042realtime RC?
05:52.06Sky2042point to where!
05:52.13Adysajax epeeners :p
05:52.21Adyskirk, seriously, shoutbox? :|
05:53.04KirkburnAdys, yes ... shoutbox
05:53.23AdysYou know we got an IRC chan?
05:53.32KirkburnYou know not every wiki has one?
05:53.41Adysyeah, so?
05:53.50AdysIm not asking for wikia to remove the shoutbox from all their wikis
05:54.02KirkburnSky2042, allow me to use your -_- emoticon
05:54.21AdysCome on dont tell me its that hard to create an exception for one wiki.
05:54.32Sky2042it sounds to me like Adys is scared of the 300 million unique page hits a month...
05:54.35KirkburnAgain, Wikia is for people of all abilities
05:54.38Sky2042which he is legitimately entitled to be.
05:54.46KirkburnNot all people want to or can use IRC
05:55.03Adysso how are you planning to do that?
05:55.13AdysHave to be both on IRC AND on the shoutbox watch to moderate stuff?
05:55.15Sky2042nonsense. include a link using the wikia gateway from the left, and all done.
05:55.28AdysI agree with sky there
05:55.29KirkburnSky2042, er, I think your data is confused
05:55.53Kirkburn3 million unique visitors per month, 3 million pageviews per day
05:55.53Adysif people cant use IRC they should go on the gateway - theres tons of other gateways too on the web
05:56.12Sky2042page views, visitors, w/e.
05:56.21Adysand if people dont want to use irc
05:56.24KirkburnAgain, people still don't all want to use IRC
05:56.27Adyswhat would they do with a shoutbox?
05:56.37AdysIts not to be witty here
05:56.48Adysbut it seems a bit... weird, not to like IRC but to prefer shoutboxes
05:56.57Sky2042Kirkburn: does that page really have auto-updates?...
05:56.57KirkburnWhy do shoutboxes exist on any site?
05:57.15Adyskirkburn, lol
05:57.17KirkburnSky2042, afaik
05:57.46Adysthats like saying animated gifs and <blink> and <marquee> is good in 1998 because every site and their sister's dog's had one
05:58.00KirkburnIt probably is possible to disable it on specific wikis, but I'd rather the tech team did more important stuff
05:58.21Sky2042Kirkburn: that's a copout and you know it ;_;
05:58.22Adysseriously it would take 10 mins and I can do it Im pretty sure.
05:58.39KirkburnA shoutbox allows people to say hello easily - and it could be used for quick alerts about vandals, or whatever
05:58.54Adysshoutboxes are not quicker than IRC :P
05:59.08KirkburnEven if it takes 10 mins, I'd rather the tech team was doing more important stuff
05:59.19AdysAnd I tell you this is a bad idea
05:59.49KirkburnYou've said IRC is better, but not why a shoutbox is bad
06:00.08Adys1/ We (or actually, you, since I wont help on that) will have to deal with regular idiots, a lot more than irc, since its indeed quicker to access
06:00.22KirkburnThey still have to register, and we can still ban them
06:00.34KirkburnThey also have to know about the widget, and add it
06:00.48AdysAye, on that point you are right
06:00.58Sky2042zomg, that "More actions" button is hotsauce... why doesn't SmashWiki have it? :(
06:01.07Adys2/ It's just pointless to have it in every way
06:01.15KirkburnSky2042, sitescout does indeed update :)
06:01.23Sky2042teh hotness.
06:01.29Sky2042no more f5 spamming for meeeeeeeeee
06:01.31KirkburnSky2042, we're rolling out the social tools slowly
06:01.54AdysI cant understand the reason behind having a shoutbox when we got an active IRC chan, when people are more likely to know about IRC than the shoutbox, when ... I dont know
06:02.48AdysIm not trying to be unhappy or whatever seriously, this layout is a LOT LOT LOT better than the one wikia showed a few months ago
06:02.49KirkburnSky2042, hmm? Halo is the testbed to get everything ironed out
06:03.00Fisker-i survived!
06:03.04KirkburnAdys, Quartz? Yeah
06:03.07pcji don't understand what's wrong with regular monobook skin tho
06:03.27Kirkburnpcj, not going to force you to use this one y'know
06:03.30Sky2042yes, it owns Quartz upside the head.
06:03.46AdysId say it looks pretty good
06:03.50Adysthere is one downside to it
06:03.59Kirkburnmonaco just has a whole lot more than monobook
06:04.01Adysyou are going to get lots of whines
06:04.10Adysa lot of people are used to wikipedia
06:04.13KirkburnHalo isn't actually on monaco, but an imitation of it
06:04.16pcjwe don't need a whole lot more than monobook
06:04.23Kirkburnpcj, Wikia does
06:04.24pcjnavigation should be functional, not overwhelming
06:04.42KirkburnOverwhelming? It's a dropdown menu system :/
06:04.49KirkburnJust like nearly every site that exists these days
06:04.59KirkburnIn any case, you can make your own sidebars in monaco
06:05.00pcji'm talking more about widgets than anything else
06:05.07KirkburnAgain, optional
06:05.13Sky2042not all of them ;_;
06:05.19pcjMostly useless
06:05.32pcjhay guies lets spend time coding a shoutbox!
06:05.33KirkburnOh, community
06:05.40pcjVillage pump?
06:05.46Kirkburnpcj, jeez, Wikia isn't just about WoWWiki
06:05.55Adysyeah kirkburn
06:06.01Adysbut the point pcj and i are trying to make is
06:06.02pcjUseless in any environment imo
06:06.29Adyswowwiki is just about wowwiki, wikia owns wowwiki but that, no wowwikian cares about who owns what
06:06.31Sky2042ok, someone needs to shoot halopedia...
06:06.33KirkburnAs much as I enjoy discussion this with stick-in-the-muds, I have heard different a lot from elsewhere
06:06.34Adysthey care about the site
06:06.50pcjyou've heard different a lot from wikia
06:07.05Adyspersonally, i dont have anything against the skin (bar the shoutbox and the share/rate thing)
06:07.09KirkburnMonaco's development has nothing to do with WoWWiki, they aren't linked :/
06:07.19Adysbut i agree with pcj mostly
06:07.30pcjwell let's see after the final wowwiki skin is done
06:07.53KirkburnTelling me stuff isn't useful for WoWWiki has little bearing on whether or not Wikia codes something, as they don't generally code for a single wiki
06:08.04Kirkburnpcj, aye, should be cool
06:08.11KirkburnSky2042, :O
06:08.16Adysas a last word though..
06:08.33KirkburnSky2042, were you referring to the community one when you said some can't be removed?
06:08.35Adysid just like to point out most websites recieving any kind of major change get badly welcomed by their users :)
06:08.43Sky2042Kirkburn: aye.
06:08.56Kirkburn*some* users
06:09.02Sky2042personally, i'd like to point out that wowwiki has a lot more users than other wikis >.>
06:09.05Adysmost users
06:09.22KirkburnAlternatively, you could listen to the guy who works for Wikia :P
06:09.35pcjkirkburn have you started designing the new main page layout
06:09.41Kirkburnpcj, too busy atm
06:09.42AdysKirkburn: our point specifically :)
06:09.47Sky2042a new MP layout?...
06:09.55pcjportal-based sky
06:10.09Adysyou work for wikia, we got just a wowwikian pov
06:10.20KirkburnNothing dramatic
06:10.24Sky2042ah yes pcj.
06:10.48*** join/#wowwiki Thrae (
06:10.48*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Thrae] by ChanServ
06:10.49KirkburnAdys, yes, but telling me how monaco will be received is silly when I know how it's been received :P
06:11.10Adysyou dont know, sorry
06:11.11pcjthe rest of wikia != wowwiki
06:11.11Sky2042Kirkburn: change the links on to possibly reflect those?...
06:11.12KirkburnIt's already the Wikia default
06:11.16Adyswhat pcj said
06:11.35KirkburnOh sheesh, Adys was making a general comment about how skin changes are received
06:11.44KirkburnI was saying that monaco has not had that problem
06:11.59pcjwell anything after quartz would be welcomed
06:12.08Kirkburnlol, even with that
06:12.19KirkburnPeople have generally been comparing it to monobook
06:12.28PanSolaI think pcj just challenged me to design a skin that is worse than quartz
06:12.39KirkburnPanSola, been enjoying the convo? :)
06:12.42pcjcologneblue does it i think pansola
06:12.55AdysPanSola: wayback machine ->
06:13.00Adyshave fun!
06:13.06KirkburnSky2042, I'll work on it more sometime
06:13.13pcjmmmm tasty
06:13.19KirkburnThat Dev3 isn't in any way final
06:13.26PanSolawikipedia has a new "Modern" skin btw
06:13.33Kirkburnoh yeah, need to check that out
06:13.42Sky2042i use Modern over Monbook, actually.
06:13.59Sky2042no image of the globe makes me sad, but otherwise, some nice style changes.
06:14.06Adys[07:13:52] <+pcj> +mmmm tasty
06:14.10Adysthat made me crash :(
06:14.19pcjsee? worse than quartz
06:14.35Sky2042sidebar's a little larger in modern, but it's livable.
06:14.47Adysits not nearly as bad as i thought
06:15.03Adysi mean
06:15.07KirkburnThe lack of a site logo is pretty much a no-go for most sites
06:15.09Adysits better than the current colors on the beta site
06:15.46Sky2042Kirkburn: the amazingness of user-styles is amazing. =]
06:15.57KirkburnAdys, seriously, stop complaining about the skin colours, the gaming skin is not what we'll be using, and we know that the techy style isn't for everyone
06:16.13Adysgee kirk chill Im kidding :P
06:16.28Sky2042 and then this is the 2nd blue response of the thread.
06:16.57Adysalso, Kirkburn, question
06:17.19Adysthe wikia spotlight, it stays like in current, or it disappears like in 1.12?
06:17.28Sky2042oh god, so true.
06:17.29KirkburnAdys, please, this is my job now, I take these things more seriously than previously
06:17.53KirkburnAdys, one spotlight on the sidebar still
06:18.08Sky2042and the ad on the front page goes away?
06:18.12Adysis there a trash..
06:18.14KirkburnThree at the page end
06:18.24Sky2042Adys: no, no getting rid of that one ;(
06:18.33AdysSky2042:  greasemonkey :P
06:18.35KirkburnAd will stay, plus there will be a banner ad
06:18.39Sky2042of course.
06:18.49pcjOh, forgot about those
06:18.50Sky2042zomg ads
06:18.53pcjWe still have them?
06:19.02KirkburnNothing that'll interfere with content more than already
06:19.12Sky2042yeah, except it's a banner ad at the top, like on the WoWdbs
06:19.14pcjWell, at least Wikia isn't watermarking all the images yet
06:19.16Sky2042(most of)
06:19.19KirkburnActually, I'd say less, given the state of the sidebar atm
06:19.28Adysi hope the google ads go away
06:19.31Kirkburnpcj, uh, can't do that
06:19.41pcjWell, they could
06:19.50KirkburnWouldn't it break the licence?
06:20.01Adysnot if the license changed
06:20.11pcjThe images are already being edited
06:20.35Sky2042Kirkburn: question: wikia has standardized policy pages. those aren't going to pop up in place of the few we currently have, will they?
06:20.43Sky2042eg, Project:Copyrights
06:20.51KirkburnThings not happening: 1). license change  2). anons being able to edit  3). other crazy stuff
06:21.09Sky2042ok, double checking.
06:21.12Adysother crazy stuff like a leaderboard on all our pages you mean? :P
06:21.15Kirkburn3). no content changes
06:21.40Adys(kidding btw, dont care about ads as long as you dont work around my greasemonkeys)
06:21.44Kirkburn4). social tools *replacing* other content
06:21.54pcjadys, openwdb, potential for in-game client a la lightheaded in the future?
06:22.09Adysuhm, potential yes
06:22.12KirkburnSomeone brought up lightheaded in the SXSW panel
06:22.14Adysbut.. good luck
06:22.17Sky2042o_o !
06:22.22Sky2042and Kirkburn?
06:22.24Adyslua xml parsing errrr
06:22.43pcjget a good xsl going and good to go
06:22.43KirkburnPlayXpert is sort of an ingame client btw, since it runs as an overlay
06:22.46pcjserver side anyway
06:23.05kd3oh whee... we've got a local source for bawls in the middle of nowhere
06:23.16Sky2042kd3: ?
06:23.19KirkburnSky2042, only a brief mention, it was about how you get web info in-games
06:23.24pcjbawls=energy drink
06:23.24kd3gurana energy drink
06:23.41Sky2042kd3: answer to unannounced question: don't drink it.
06:24.01KirkburnWhat do you think of the monaco menu system as it is atm?
06:24.14Adysfont size should be reduced in the child menus
06:24.15pcjCould obviously use refining
06:24.18Adysrest is okay
06:24.39KirkburnK, I'm sure I can reduce that size
06:24.40pcjWhat exactly is featured users
06:24.56Sky2042egads, kirkburn, we can remove that part, can't we? :/
06:24.59KirkburnI think it's people who've edited most, something like that
06:25.00Adysyou mean.. what the fuck is featured users yeah
06:25.01KirkburnSky2042, yes
06:25.09Adysoh god edit races :P
06:25.13kd3so. varg wins by default forever?
06:25.21Adysyou mean theres people who're gonna challenge varg?
06:25.24Sky2042i noticed it on the global messages wikia... which made me sick.
06:25.38Adysi think its smarter to remove the php code and replace it with varg on top, foxbot as second
06:25.39Sky2042and / or Laurly.
06:25.40pcjjust put varghedin's user page link in the menu, done
06:25.44KirkburnIt's all editable, naturally
06:26.05KirkburnCommunity is probably the only "finished" menu
06:26.09pcjwho determines editor's pick
06:26.16KirkburnAll the others need filling out and organising
06:26.27Sky2042but we can removed "community"... right?
06:26.30Kirkburnpcj, I think that's affected by the rating thingy
06:26.32pcjnewly changed probably shouldn't be on there
06:26.44pcjwouldn't highest voted be affected by the rating thingy
06:27.18Sky2042ack, nvm
06:27.21pcjmost visited menu = editor's pick lol
06:27.26KirkburnI'll need to look into the meanings of them all
06:28.09Adysrebooting brb
06:28.16kd3newuserlog coming with 1.12 too?
06:28.18KirkburnWe probably don't need that stuff, it's just all about giving the community choice
06:28.22pcjThe edit this menu link on editor's pick takes me to
06:28.33KirkburnNah, no newuserlog
06:28.34Sky2042yes, pcj...
06:28.55pcjso what's the point of having an edit this menu link most users can't change
06:29.03Kirkburnkd3, due to the shared database it wouldn't make much sense
06:29.05Sky2042Kirkburn: i have to agree with pcj on the "newest changed" also, since that's duplicated 2 or 3 other places unneccessarily.
06:29.14KirkburnIt would be protected by the wikia-wide regexblock, etc
06:29.18Sky2042that's for all of wikia, heh.
06:29.53KirkburnAye, fine for getting rid of all this stuff :)
06:30.38Sky2042bah sp.
06:30.45Kirkburnin his grave,
06:30.50pcj"Items" should probably be under Gameplay
06:31.08KirkburnI'll see how much work I can do on WW while here, sidebar obviously needs filling out
06:31.33pcjWhat's the difference between character and gameplay
06:31.38Adyswtf i got reboot into 640x480
06:31.39Sky2042annoying that you only have admin on beta :/
06:32.00Adyshelp i got 73 channels open in 640x480
06:32.30Sky2042serves you right for being in 73 channels.
06:32.32Adysok, this needs fixing, brb
06:33.19KirkburnI'd make you all admins if I could
06:33.32Sky2042but you're not +bureau.
06:33.32pcjyou can
06:33.39Sky2042he's can't :/
06:33.44KirkburnCopy and develop it?
06:33.45Kirkburnaye, not bureau
06:34.26KirkburnArf, monaco doesn't work on IE8
06:34.37pcj<-- called it
06:34.45Sky2042Kirkburn: actually, that Project bug's coming up again, as I'm not seeing Community Portal on the links.
06:35.01Sky2042wait. uh.
06:35.33Kirkburnomg, wait .. that's fixed?
06:35.44Sky2042it would appear so.
06:35.56*** join/#wowwiki yren (n=ryang@
06:35.58Kirkburnunintentional, but cool
06:36.31pcjdoes anyone else get a database error at
06:36.31kd3like the best bugfixes
06:36.54kd32,399 pages
06:37.19pcjDatabase error
06:37.20pcjA database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
06:37.21pcjfrom within function "LinkBatch::doQuery". MySQL returned error "1153: Got a packet bigger than 'max_allowed_packet' bytes (".
06:37.28Lukianno error for me
06:37.35Sky2042pcj: just edited mine. seems fine.
06:37.39Lukianyour watchlist is too big? :D
06:37.52pcjwell, i'd clear it, but i can't seem to edit it...
06:38.12Kirkburnpcj, how many?
06:38.31pcjI'd tell you, but I can't seem to get to the /edit page to see
06:38.39pcjOh, here we are
06:38.40Lukianjust have a db admin clean out your watchlist :D
06:38.40pcjYou have 25,015 pages on your watchlist (excluding talk pages)
06:38.46KirkburnYeah, you're buggered
06:39.07KirkburnMaybe, maybe 1.12 will help
06:39.09Sky2042whythefuckdoyouhave a quarter of the wiki on watchlist?
06:39.23pcj"Add pages to watch list when you edit" or w/e
06:39.34KirkburnMine used to break at 4000 until some point
06:39.49KirkburnI have that too, but still mine's 4,400
06:39.56KirkburnI guess all the laurlybot stuff?
06:40.09pcjUm, I've edited just about every item
06:43.41kd3whee. gurana is fun
06:45.25KirkburnI'm off now
06:45.37KirkburnBeen fun chatting, will be back tomorrow :)
06:46.06KirkburnAs I said in the panel, one of the reasons I do this is cause I get to meet people like you lot :P
06:46.23Kirkburn(srsly, I gotz proof, whenever the video goes up)
06:46.46Sky2042oh yes, because we're fun to meet.
06:47.01KirkburnAdys, I may indeed be at WWI btw
06:47.19KirkburnWe gotta sort out a EU meetup
06:47.37Kirkburn(then a US one at Blizzcon 09 of course)
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06:48.45Adysthat fixed it, ish
06:48.49AdysKirkburn:  cool .]
06:49.01Adysshit, my keyboard too,,,
06:49.27kd3what are you doing to your poor computer?
06:49.35Adys[07:48:26] <@Kirkburn> +Arf, monaco doesn't work on IE8
06:49.47KirkburnBloody vatican - their new social sins include:
06:49.48Kirkburn1. “Bioethical’ violations such as birth control
06:49.48Kirkburn2. “Morally dubious” experiments such as stem cell research
06:50.13Adyskd3: running alpha test OS ./
06:50.16KirkburnAdys, my bet is it's probably due to some IE hacks carrying over
06:50.35Adysyeah kirk damn those ie hacks .]
06:50.39kd3and bah at religion
06:50.41Adysfuck this keyboard, brb
06:50.44*** join/#wowwiki Sky2042_afk (n=Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno)
06:50.44*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Sky2042_afk] by ChanServ
06:52.12KirkburnI can't imagine there's anything specific that IE8 is missing
06:52.47Fisker-Mr. Kirkburn
06:53.00KirkburnBtw, Darkmoon Faire is going up for another week tomorrow (US)
06:53.46KirkburnBibi, poke with link -
06:54.37Adyswoot has mah keyboard
06:54.49Adysnow wtb my second screen..
06:57.18Adyshaha awesome, back in 640 ><
06:58.59KirkburnI'm off, toodles
06:59.24Bibiyeah Kirkburn saw that :p
06:59.33Bibidon't know why it's such a drama, nobody cares about the darkmoon faire :/
06:59.58KirkburnI think it's weird too
07:09.53*** join/#wowwiki laurly (
07:16.58laurlyLOL i think eirik agreed to help iwth the new bot :)
07:25.04Sky2042_afkjebus the VP needs an archive.
07:31.34Adysfixed woot
07:36.11laurlyname a quest that requires youf ind an item.
07:36.28Sky2042_afki was just at one... xD
07:36.46laurlyfound one.
07:38.55laurlycrap im looking for a word..... common poor epic thats an items what ?
07:39.16laurlythank you
07:44.45laurlysky go check User:Laurlybot/quest_bot/template
07:48.52Sky2042_afkminor changes.
07:49.02Sky2042_afkfeel free to bug eirik :)
07:49.17Sky2042_afknice guild botting there too, btw
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07:49.42Sky2042_afki think those are going in their own category though
07:50.12laurly <-- check that
07:50.31Amarandehmm, if there's one thing I miss the most about Guild Wars that isn't in WoW though ...
07:50.44Amarandeit's the ability to base your armor choices on look, without having to gimp yourself on function
07:51.04Sky2042_afkoh yes, there've been many suggestions about that...
07:51.12laurlyelinks with the quest id right?
07:51.20Keolahall my high level females look like whores.
07:51.25AmarandeI played GW for many months before I started WoW, so the good parts of it stick in my memory well
07:51.28Amarandemorning Keolah :)
07:51.35KeolahWhat? i haven't left. :P
07:51.38Sky2042_afki think i may have added elinks-item laurly xD
07:51.44KeolahI've just been leveling my rogue ;p
07:51.52laurlySky2042_afk figured you had :)
07:51.54KeolahBut I'm currently flying from Darnassus to Gadgetzan... ;p
07:52.11KeolahSo, uh, yeah, i've got a few minutes to chat! :P
07:52.13Amarandethat's almost as bad as the time I decided to not wait for my hearthstone after training a level
07:52.31AmarandeI was in UC, so I figured, ok, I'll fly to Stonard, jump back thru the Dark Portal and go back to Shatt
07:52.35laurlyyeah about 10 min flight i think.
07:52.41Amarandeyay, ten minute + flight from UC to Stonard :S
07:52.42KeolahI'm also presently trying to figure out how to tell my grandmother, "I'm planning to move to another state to be a sex slave to some guy I met over the internet." :P
07:52.42Sky2042_afklaurly: quest chains should use #s rather than *s, fyi
07:53.10KeolahI don't think she'll approve. :P
07:54.10Amarandewhy bother telling gramma, then? :S
07:54.54Amarandespeaking of super long travel, time to head from Area 52 to SMV :|
07:55.16Keolahbecause I live with her and she's gonna need to find out before seeing me walking out with a suitcase in hand ;p
07:55.29laurlySky2042_afk ?? what do you mean?
07:55.44Sky2042_afkwonder if i can find a quest big enough
07:56.07laurlylook around :)
07:56.11Amarandehopefully I will find myself marrying a woman who plays WoW. :)
07:56.22Amarandeotherwise, I start to get the distinct impression I may have to drop out of this particular hobby :|
07:56.38Sky2042_afk laurly.
07:56.52Amarandeor at least, not have any endgame progression other than arena PvP
07:56.58KeolahBelieve it or not, girls do play WoW ;p
07:57.06Sky2042_afkprolly won't have to be so bad with the bot, but i'm just showing u the numbers rather than the bullets
07:57.57Amarandewe actually do have a fair number of women in my guild :)
07:58.16Amarandec'mon, you stupid wind rider, can't you fly any faster than that, and stop giving me the damned scenic route
07:58.21AmarandeI want my flying mount NOW
07:59.18KeolahOkay, perhaps I should not mention the 'sex slave' bit to my grandmother ;p
07:59.39laurlySky2042_afk check the quest chain again
07:59.55Amarandeuh oh. how much gold does the actual flying mount cost?
08:00.00AmarandeI only remembered that training is 800
08:00.50laurlyput# infrount of the quest long
08:01.54laurlynow you guys can see what the pat template looks like while i get it to work.
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08:10.27Amarandeyay thought so. I did not send enough gold from my AH character to my warlock.
08:10.36laurlyhmm and another guild officer bites the dust
08:11.09Sky2042_afkwhat for?
08:11.20laurlyhmm he left the guild last night.
08:11.53laurlywhy well it probably had something to do with the fact hes left the last 2 raids to go pug kara on an alt.
08:11.59laurlyGM called him on it last night
08:12.47laurlywhy would you pug kara on an alt when you could be in MH and BT on your main.
08:14.00Amarandealliance or horde guild, which server?
08:14.08laurlyalliance aggramar
08:16.42Sky2042_afkkd3: pok
08:17.14Sky2042_afksup w/ tagging stub here ?
08:17.47kd3gah, kuso. though I caught all of the mistagged stubs
08:29.11*** join/#wowwiki Schnoobby (
08:32.54kd3oh, damn.
08:32.59kd3missed the shuttle launch this morning
08:33.56*** join/#wowwiki Gymble (
08:34.00BibiI'm sure it wouldn't happen if your best friend Hortus was in charge of the launch.
08:34.30Bibi(I think I tried to watch a shuttle launch 3 or 4 times in my life)
08:34.32Sky2042_afkthem's fighting words!
08:34.39Bibi(it always end up the same way)
08:34.54Bibi("huh sorry, launch has been postponed to tomorrow, I think we saw a cloud 30km away")
08:34.56Sky2042_afki actually got to see one by accident a couple of summers ago. i had pulled an allnighter, and happened to turn the tv on at the right time.
08:35.08Sky2042_afk5 in the morning, naturally.
08:35.27laurlyLOL guild name "AFK oh NVM"
08:37.40Fisker-almost so funny that i went to france just to kill Bibi
08:38.12*** join/#wowwiki Gymble (
08:39.41laurly is that a legal char?
08:40.04Sky2042_afknot in WoW by some rule or another, but yes, it is.
08:40.21Sky2042_afkdon't ask me which language uses it.
08:40.37kd3they changed the tos. ascii's allowed. it's nearly always been allowed in guild/arena titles iirc
08:40.42kd3s/ascii/high ascii/
08:40.48laurlywell the bot will gag on it if wow doesnt allow it its not going to be in armory.
08:41.13Sky2042_afkit's now allowed in ascii...
08:41.14Amarandehowever, high ascii in character names is still not something you really want to do
08:41.22Amarandesince a lot of folks won't invite you into groups if they can't type your name
08:41.46kd3of course. I never said it was a good idea. just that the GMs aren't enforcing that ex-policy any more
08:41.58Amarandeargh, this is not what I wanted to read
08:42.17Amarandeforum stuff saying that class changes in 2.4 are pushing people away from playing the priest class, PvP issues being a major reason for it
08:42.23Amarandeit's hard enough to get a damn healer as it is :|
08:42.43kd3and it's the class forums. when are they ever /not/ full of QQing?
08:42.50Sky2042_afkbah, unless that came from the blues, take it with a freaking grain of salt.
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08:43.52laurlyhmm bot might not gag on it if i can get it to store in the db right.
08:44.06Amarandekd3: PvP forum actually
08:44.18Amarandeand actually, there is a fairly strong consensus that melee is becoming OP in arenas
08:45.04Amarandeof course the melee always QQs that spells are too powerful and don't respect their armor, so why shouldn't melee attacks be treated generously with armor penetration?
08:45.17Amarandeproblem is, these melees keep forgetting, this is assuming we actually manage to CAST a spell :|
08:45.26Sky2042_afki shot the wow, but i did not shoot the wowwiki
08:45.28Amarandethis hardly ever happens.
08:45.51Amarandewhat happens is that we try to cast a spell, we get pushbacked over and over till you have enough rage/combo points/energy to do an interrupt + school disable, and the spell never actually gets cast at all :S
08:46.47Amarandeoddly, now there's talk that warlocks and mages will be even MORE wanted in arenas because of it though
08:46.59Amarandemainly because apparently, you can only counter the melee zerg with a CC zerg
08:48.01Amarandebut yeah, the basic trouble is that melee have things like sunder and hamstring that can't be removed, at all, to make the target nice and tenderized and can't really run away
08:48.21Amarandewhile any caster attempt to CC so they can kite, assuming they even get it off at all, gets dispelled by the melee guy's buddy
08:48.35Amarandealso, most of all, that melee weapons are scaling way better than caster weapons, which is probably the real problem
08:49.10laurlywiki down?
08:49.28NolookThe server at is taking too long to respond.
08:50.17laurlyping adys
08:51.31laurlyyup its down.
08:52.22Amarande"mage + priest vs. mage + priest ... should ALWAYS WIN"
08:52.22laurly#wikia quite usefull its back
08:52.57Amarandeyes, mage + priest will probably win vs. mage + priest ... just like Viktor was going to win the last Ukrainian elections :)
08:53.59Nolooklaurly: Thanks.
08:56.07Amarandealso, are these people on the money regarding this:
08:56.39Amarandethat PvP tends to favor casters when a given expansion is new, and over time continually slides towards favoring melee until the next expansion comes out, which renews the cycle back at the caster favorance end?
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09:49.06Fisker-I disagree
09:50.26laurlythink everyone else is asleep
09:50.37Fisker-i am sick
09:51.19Fisker-do not want
09:51.36laurlyits good for you drink it.
09:54.28Fisker-was mpt
09:54.29Fisker-was not
09:54.35Fisker-didn't work at all :(
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11:35.06Fisker-When i browse the bank log in the armory i get "Must be member of the guild" at group 7 :P
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12:49.01Adyslaurly:  pong
12:49.13Adysbut Im going to bed :P
12:49.35Adys[09:50:17] <laurly> ping adys
12:49.40Adyswas a while ago yea
12:49.44laurlyyeah wiki was down but that was ages ago
12:49.49Adysbe back tonight
12:50.02laurlyskip  it :)
12:50.10laurlysleep well.
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13:31.46KasoGreat, we're turning into america
13:32.54foxlit"WE ARE NUMBER ONE!"
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13:42.45foxlitThe question, though, is: how staged is that?
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13:54.07pcjmost of it
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14:11.25pcjwtf why is he adding it to archive
14:12.18laurlyvery good question
14:19.48laurlybut why did the bot tag it i wonder
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14:47.21Ose~seen Gourra
14:47.25infobotgourra <> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 15h 48m 18s ago, saying: 'right-o I'll work on that'.
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15:08.54pcjping admin sd all per [[WW:GUILD]]
15:18.13Fisker-what's wrong with it?
15:18.36Osestub tagging now
15:28.53laurlywtf is that.....
15:30.01laurlythe evil person adding loads of guild pages with no content....
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16:06.14pcjthey're talking about hitler's constipation on the history channel ._.
16:10.55ltcolumboawesome, and I'm at work missing it :(
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16:15.27dev_n00bI LIKE PIE!
16:16.03PhotoJimit was a fickle ficus.
16:16.07pcjwtf photojim
16:16.13pcjhow could you bungle pi like that
16:16.17dev_n00bThe things I do during server maintenance...
16:16.18PhotoJimI bunged it
16:16.22PhotoJimtry that
16:16.35dev_n00bI want the servers back online!!!!
16:16.46PhotoJimdon't have an alt on another server?
16:16.57pcj...all servers are down photojim
16:17.03PhotoJimall?  oh, I didn't know that.
16:17.09dev_n00bTuesday hell
16:17.13dev_n00bAKA Maintenance
16:17.13pcjit's only been that way for like...forever
16:17.26dev_n00bI want my S3 gloves!
16:17.28PhotoJimI'm always at work on Tuesdays so I can't play
16:17.34dev_n00b*pouts even
16:17.46dev_n00bPVP == Epics :D
16:18.00dev_n00bTo top off the day, the cable tv is out :(
16:18.10dev_n00bInternet still works, but I like tv WHILE I am on the PC
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16:19.26pcjyeah my tv is looking a little less HD today for some reason
16:19.36pcjfortunately the picture is still 52"
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16:19.46dev_n00bI'm about to steal my grammies 32" LCD HD and use it for my monitor :O
16:20.25dev_n00bI'm set to play, too
16:20.44dev_n00bI have ritalin, seroquel, concerta, depakote, invega, and cymbalta here :O
16:21.33dev_n00bI just need to get some Monster XXL energy drink :O
16:35.35equiraptornah, just needs to send output to /dev/null
16:35.49laurlythat works
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17:10.25Oseshould we revert
17:10.34OseI like the old one better
17:10.51Oseor do I?
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17:20.35dev_n00bI has chippy chips!
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17:20.49dev_n00bBack to the tranq comment from Laurly...
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17:21.03dev_n00bDepakote is a mood stabiliser and invega is an anti=psychotic
17:21.10sacarascreal chips or what americans refer to as chips which are really just fried slices of potato and not chips of potato at all?
17:21.32dev_n00bNow, Seroquel is one of the most powerful antipsychotics you can get.  I take 25mg 3x daily, and 100mg at night
17:21.45*** part/#wowwiki phaedrus_ (n=worshama@
17:21.47dev_n00bsacarasc, in this case, I have crisps
17:22.01dev_n00bEver watch "You are what you eat" on BBC?
17:22.44sacarasci don't watch TV
17:22.54dev_n00bCash in the Attic is on!
17:23.25dev_n00bOn YAWYE, there was a family that went through 83 bags of crisps in a week.  The father went through 52 himself :O
17:23.31KirkburnArticles with "+" in the name are fixed on beta -
17:24.18Osehai thar kirk
17:24.24Osestil at SXSW?
17:25.29KirkburnOse, nope
17:25.39KirkburnNow at the Wikia office near San Fran
17:30.27Oseany chance of us getting image thumbnails fixed soon?
17:33.08KirkburnOse, dunno
17:33.39Kirkburn*sigh*, laptop fan is going crazy again
17:34.00KirkburnI'll be back later
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17:38.36equiraptorDang. I missed kirkburn.
17:38.54dev_n00bIms Kan Cty,MO
17:39.24dev_n00bI miss Kansas City, MO
17:39.28dev_n00bMy wireless went nuts :O
17:42.37sacarascwednesday too often going into fridayu
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17:44.13Ose what is this?
17:47.06Oselol, I thought was vandalism, but downs is actually the guild name >.<
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17:51.42airnessyou guys have any suggestions for inventory/bank addons
17:52.02airnesslike addons that will scan and hold screenshot or something of all inventory/bank of all chars on an account?
18:07.45JohnMahowaldWishlist that tracks stuff people want for their (guild) banks
18:09.05airnessfound a good one
18:18.39Osearen't you supposed to be crazy by now? (
18:19.36laurlywtf i havent seen that before.
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18:22.34laurlydotted started it apperntly.
18:23.50Oseyou should thank him later :P
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18:29.23laurlyhmmm i have 2 more votes then any of the other crazy ppl .....
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18:29.32laurlymy guild is enjoying this.
18:30.56Osenoone noticed you were already "done" :P
18:32.22laurlywell the rest of the officers have clamed they already knew i was crazy so
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18:45.42pcjhi keolah
18:47.11foxlitscore, i r sane!
18:47.59laurlypcj you my offical spell checker?
18:48.13pcjcan i be
18:49.14laurlyohhh i think i get to raid tonight
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18:53.08laurlyTeron Gorefiend i think
19:01.14laurlyhmmm why isnt adys a crazy person?
19:01.26*** join/#wowwiki Tinyboom (
19:04.26Osetoo sane?
19:04.54laurlyhes here every day how can that be sane?
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19:06.43pcji think the openwdb thing is more evidence of insanity than anything else
19:07.16laurlymen there all lost in BT..... cant stop and ask for directions
19:08.03laurlygood point pcj!
19:08.46laurlydoes guild template auto cat?
19:10.02Osehow do I change the color of a link?
19:10.08OseI need it in gold
19:10.16pcjyou have to use CSS ose
19:11.04Oseyeah, but exaclty what do I write? I tried <span style="color: gold;">[[Kobold]]</span>'''</span>, but that didn't work
19:11.34pcjin Special:Mypage/wowwiki.css write:
19:11.54pcj.blah a:link{color:gold;}
19:12.12pcjand then the HTML is <span class="blah">[[Kobold]]</span>
19:12.16foxlit[[Page Title|<span style="color: gold>Caption</span>]]
19:12.24pcjor that i guess
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19:13.54laurlywheres sky when i need him.
19:14.07foxlitUsually above you
19:14.17foxlitUnless you're in... australia?
19:14.29foxlit(Odd how china is perceived to be upside down)
19:14.44pcjlaurly it does
19:15.21foxlitI mean, you'd have to start digging somewhere in South America to end up in China :/
19:15.25foxlitBloody cartoons
19:15.25laurly  <--- got the bot replaceing the guild tag
19:15.31laurlyshould she remove the old cats as well?
19:16.56pcjlaurly it {{guild}} doesn't categorize by alliance or horde
19:17.29laurly{{guild|Apex|Garona|US|alliance|pve}} <--- so we add them maybe?
19:17.42pcjI would if it were unlocked for editing
19:18.25laurlyalliance hord you can add but not the pve pvp one just yet. bot doesnt have that info unless i search the page for it but it has the faction when it scanns armory
19:20.59Ose lolol
19:21.55OseI can't wait to hear his reply :D
19:24.45Osenow, who else deserves one of those...
19:28.15pcjlaurly does
19:28.33laurlypass im already crazy
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19:34.33*** join/#wowwiki Amarande (i=amarande@
19:34.44AmarandeG'afternoon :)
19:38.05*** join/#wowwiki Gymble (
19:38.58Amarandeok, what's the most efficient way to farm to 5000g?
19:39.16*** join/#wowwiki igormorgado (n=igormorg@
19:40.14Osehow much do you have?
19:40.30Ose = teh win
19:40.39Osebut you'll need something to start with
19:41.45Amarandeheh, right now I have about 75g on one character and 10 on another
19:42.01AmarandeI'm considering how long it would take if I just mined everywhere I could and sold metal
19:42.16Amarande(other than the fact that the entire server will hate me for it, since I have a flying mount and will be branded a ninja miner :S)
19:42.17laurlyi did it mostly picking flowers and doing daily quests
19:42.36Amarandeit's kinda hard to avoid being a ninja, though
19:42.56Amarandeafter all, unless you keep stopping to look up on the armory whether every character you see near a mining node is a miner or just a quester ...
19:49.42Amarandeand finally I'm glad to be a Scryer, also
19:49.47Amarandelots of Scryer rep drops in Netherstorm :)
19:49.53Amarandewhich also happens to be my favorite zone now :)
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20:07.56Adys[20:01:16] <+laurly> hmmm why isnt adys a crazy person?
20:08.08AdysI am?
20:08.25AdysFoxlit: Whats up with JPG.
20:09.13foxlitNothing, really?
20:09.22Adyswhy you slap :(
20:09.44foxlitBecause suggesting it "needs to die" is silly
20:10.28Adysit does need to die
20:10.44foxlitWhy, what's up with it?
20:11.11Adysbecause it's lossy in a silly way
20:11.45foxlitIt's lossy in a _good_ way
20:12.09Adyswe're in 2008 eh
20:12.21AdysI got a 1tb hard drive here
20:12.29Adysit costs 250 euros to have one of those nowadays, barely
20:12.38Adyswe dont need lossy shit :P
20:12.59Adysid say the same for mp3 but image edition is more widespread than music edition
20:13.04laurlyyour not on the list adys :)
20:13.20Adyslaurly:  ah :p
20:13.24foxlitPNG isn't really a viable alternative for photographs
20:13.51foxlitWell, scratch that
20:14.06Adyspng is not, other raw formats are
20:14.43foxlitName something :)
20:14.54AdysRAW? for one? :p
20:15.12foxlitYeah, go serve RAW files over the net
20:15.12Adysnot that it has many standards behind it...
20:15.33Adysthey get converted to png :p
20:15.57foxlitPNG is still ill-suited to transferring photographs over the net
20:16.39Adysyou got nothing against a screenshot of wow in png for example
20:16.51Adysyet it has more or less as many tones as a regular picture
20:17.11foxlitFile size
20:17.25Adysdont care
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20:17.53Adysin ten years everyone will have 100mb or higher :/
20:18.07foxlitAnd that is precisely why you need to be slapped with a trout
20:18.58foxlitGenerally, I have nothing against wow screenshots in JPEG
20:19.19Adysi do
20:19.33Adysscreenshots in jpg are too lossy
20:19.39Adysand if they are not, they are bigger than png
20:19.59foxlitYou do understand that JPEG is aimed at photographs?
20:20.20foxlitAnd the areas that are "too lossy" to you are mostly few-pixel-high text?
20:20.38Adysthat's like saying IE is aimed at people not using the net in its whole capacity
20:20.50Adysmaybe it is
20:21.15Adysbut since the majority uses it, every web dev and their dog thinks IE over standards
20:21.21Adyssame here with jpg
20:21.34foxlitI think every web dev and their dog thinks FF over IE
20:21.35Adyseveryone uses it because most dont even know they can save as png
20:21.51Adysif only :)
20:22.16foxlitYou may be referring to people who lack an understanding what JPEG should be used for
20:22.24foxlitBut in that case, the point is "idiots should die"
20:22.28foxlitNot "JPEG should die"
20:22.51Adyspng is not ready for photographs ill give you that
20:23.09Adysbut in 5 years everyone will have a decent connection, and a decent hard drive
20:23.23Adysno reason to worry about file size on images
20:23.35foxlitAdys: my turn for a misplaced metaphor
20:23.52foxlitThat's like saying "Let's run Vista's DRM because processor advances means we can afford the wild waste of CPU cycles"
20:24.31Adyswell to be honest with you
20:24.39Adysif the impact is invisible
20:24.43Adyswhy should we care?
20:25.44foxlitBecause things could be so much better when you do care
20:25.55Adysokay look
20:25.57foxlitAnd not caring is worse than being clueless :)
20:26.22Adyslossy stuff in photographs is not really a problem usually
20:26.30Adysbut it does become one after a few edits
20:26.32AmarandeAdys: because DRM was invented by people like Illidan Stormrage?
20:26.42foxlitSo, don't be an idiot
20:26.47foxlitAnd store your photographs in ra
20:26.50Amarandeno wait. Illidan deserves a hug compared to the guy who invented DRM :S
20:26.54foxlitOr whatever lossless format you want :)
20:27.11foxlitBut use the better standard when you have to transfer them to people whose primary focus is not editing them
20:27.16Adysso you`re also gonna tell the net to serve them as lossless format
20:27.28Adysso that they can caption lolcats without destroying the pic in paint?
20:28.15foxlitI'm not going to tell the net to do anything :)
20:28.30foxlitIf you're editing, quality is your problem.
20:28.36Adysheck, Im one to think even layers should be stored in images
20:29.03Amarandeas long as it doesn't include %#$&*@#&*@ing DRM.
20:29.36foxlitIf you want to, store PSDs
20:29.52Adyspsd is proprietary to the bone, why should I?
20:29.56foxlitThere's no reason to use them to _DISPLAY_ content to people
20:30.13Adyssvg, png, xcf (probably a modified version of it)
20:30.26Adysand there you are, you got three perfect all-around image formats for the net
20:30.46foxlitSo what the heck do you serve photos in?
20:31.01foxlitGreat, we've been here.
20:31.05foxlitSize makes it impractical
20:31.21Adystons of people serve screenshots of all kind of games in png
20:31.32Adysand most of these games are no different to regular photos for a computer
20:32.19Adysif you click a giant 1600x1200 image, it's because you want to see it
20:32.28Adysyou are ready to spend 5 seconds loading it
20:32.43Adyssituationally, thumbnails are perfect
20:32.54Adysotherwise, just wait for it
20:32.58foxlitYou're still missing the point
20:33.09foxlitJPEG works for LOOKING AT a 1600x1200 photograph
20:33.19foxlitPNG would be wasting time by a factor of 5
20:33.36foxlitWant to compress something to PNG for me?
20:33.57Adysright, ive been there before too you know
20:34.01Amarandebah, why *did* they nerf that quest in Netherstorm, anyway?
20:34.18foxlitIt's not really showing :)
20:34.18Adysas i said, in five years everyone will have a good connection
20:34.20Amarandeas if people without large guilds have enough trouble with getting stuck on group quests, they turned a solo one into a group with 2.1.0
20:34.49Adysand go ahead and tell me you see the difference between a page of 30kb and of 120kb
20:35.00Adysduring the 56k era you did
20:35.02Adysnot now
20:35.38foxlitFor the sizes you're describing, the difference is not 90kb
20:35.45Adysyou dont get it
20:35.50Adys[21:34:19] <@Adys> as i said, in five years everyone will have a good connection
20:36.00foxlitAnd it's still a pointless waste of bandwidth that you've failed to justify
20:36.27Amarandeto nerf a solo quest to make it a not as easy solo quest, fine. to nerf a group quest because it's too easy or too hard but remains group, fine. to nerf a group quest so it can be soloed, probably also fine, 2.3 wasn't so bad in that regard
20:36.31Amarandebut to nerf a solo quest so it needs a group?
20:36.34Amarandewhy, Blizzard?
20:37.06foxlitYou don't really need to be in a group to finish a group quest :)
20:37.30AdysPeople who serve gigantic jpg images right now, they can afford doing so
20:37.32Amarandefoxlit: the robot one in Netherstorm apparently pretty much 100% needs a group now
20:37.47Adysin five, ten years, they wont give a damn about the bandwidth difference
20:37.48Amarandethey took out the bot's healing ability with 2.1, for no good reason people can think of other than to make it a group quest instead of a solo
20:38.00foxlitAmarande: ah, the bot.
20:38.02Amarandeodd, since the rest of the chain *is* all solo
20:38.05Amarandewhat was the point of that?
20:38.28Oselol, "Allergic to bear Druids."
20:38.45Amarandeit seems they want to go out of their way to punish people for having small friendly guilds instead of concentrating into big businesslike ones
20:39.12foxlitAdys: so let's use inefficient formats, yeah, that's it.
20:39.15Amarande(I rarely see a large friendly guild. Most of them are heavily based around organizing progression raids ... I've only seen one or two that are not)
20:39.21Adyspng is not inefficient
20:39.24Adysit's lossless
20:39.35foxlitA quality which is very frequently not needed for photographs
20:39.50Adysthats what movie editors said
20:40.03Adysthats what music bands kept saying too
20:40.06foxlit(seen a lossless movie format?)
20:40.15Adyshow do you think they edit it?
20:40.25myke54142png is good for screenshots
20:40.30Adysdo you remember vhs or?
20:40.32myke54142much better than jpeg
20:40.47myke54142png is good when the source is already rasterized, or line art
20:41.02Adys(svg for line art)
20:41.18myke54142i mean for scans of line art
20:41.36myke54142postscript for line art :) ftw
20:42.05myke54142it's too bad display postscript and postscript oriented drawing apps never took off
20:42.17myke54142the format was ahead of its time by far
20:42.48myke54142svg has the same problem, no adoption
20:43.22Adysmost browsers can display svg for one
20:43.27Adysi wouldnt say the same for ps :)
20:43.52Adysbesides, wikipedia has done hell of a lot to promote it and keeps doing so, helps a LOT
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20:51.15Osesky :)
20:52.47Oselaurly? what are you going to do about that raid alliance thingy issue (on your talk)?
20:53.46*** join/#wowwiki MentalPower (n=MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower)
20:54.04laurlynothing its up to them to mark it {GOG} if they cant do that its not the bots falut they told it it was a guild
20:54.16laurlybot ignores anhthing taged gog
20:54.29Osewhich means?
20:54.50OseGuild O--- G--- ?
20:54.52Sky2042_afkgroup of guilds
20:55.05Sky2042don't ask me where the term came from.
20:55.12laurlyThis article is a a group of guilds information page
20:55.17Sky2042i moved into the server space. i'll delete the guild rd
20:55.54Ose is kewl
20:55.57Amarandebtw, any way the bot can start looking at guild info on the armory and deal with ridiculously out of date raid progressions accordingly? :)
20:56.23laurlyhow do you want to find out what there curent raid progress is?
20:56.27Amarandelike maybe tag the page with something like "According to Armory data, this guild has progressed to at least: Black Temple. Information on this page may be out of date"
20:56.34Sky2042Amarande: no, we aren't going to be WoWJutsu -_-
20:56.43laurlythank you Sky2042
20:56.44Amarandelaurly: the usual means is by checking the origins of any epic items members have
20:57.01laurlyAmarande yeah but its not acurate if you import someone in the guild with that gear from another guild
20:57.18Kyrinwouldn't work for my guild
20:57.31laurlyi would like to consider dumping guild pages that havent been edited by anything but a bot in 6months
20:57.41Kyrinwe don't raid as a guild, we raid as an alliance, 30+ raids across 11 guilds
20:57.44AmarandeI still find it amusing that our server's top horde guild's page is listed as "just starting weekly raids in BWL" lol
20:57.44Kyrinor more I think
20:57.54laurlybrb pulling
20:59.31AmarandeFusion are awesome, they actually even show respect in chat channels for people who are good at the game but undergeared :)
21:00.16Amarandeunlike some folks ... I was helping someone with a group quest in NS yesterday and he says "transfer to _____ and ask for an invite to _____ they take warlocks in green gear" which seemed a little bit derisive in its tone lol
21:01.11Amarandethe impression I got was that since I wear green gear, I'm being regarded as a scrub :P
21:04.04pcjwell you are
21:05.23Sky2042so true
21:05.54laurlyyou want to move all the GoG pages the bot finds? shes found a few
21:06.27Sky2042laurly: i'm sorting through the category. i'm probably the most dependant checker, so i should catch them after the bot does. :]
21:06.33Sky2042unless they're tagged with GOG?
21:06.49laurlythe bot has them  stored in the dabase if it was taged gog she ignores it.
21:09.39laurlymsged you what it has.
21:10.20Sky2042why is kb not on? :(
21:11.20*** join/#wowwiki Krolmor|Dcd (
21:12.02pcjsky he's in san francisco, busy
21:12.20Sky2042pcj: he's editing right now -_-
21:12.39pcjhe probably doesn't want to spam the channel with his frequent dcs because of his laptop fan
21:12.58pcj~seen kirkburn
21:13.00infobotkirkburn <> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 3h 39m ago, saying: 'I'll be back later'.
21:13.12Krolmoris there a channel to discuss RP? I'd like to find a good RP server - been wanting to try it out
21:13.21pcj<@Kirkburn> *sigh*, laptop fan is going crazy again
21:13.21pcj<@Kirkburn> I'll be back later
21:13.21pcj* @Kirkburn ( Quit ("#wowwiki. Do it.")
21:19.22*** join/#wowwiki Charitwo (n=Charitwo@wikia/Charitwo)
21:23.14Osew00t! Liverpool R teh winz
21:30.47*** join/#wowwiki A2` (
21:34.52Krolmoris there any particular benefit to rolling a hunter as dwarf instead of NE ? (on a pvp server)
21:36.32Keolahstoneskin is marginally useful?
21:37.05pcj+ gun skill
21:37.29KeolahNE racials are kinda jank... whee, help you hide and help you get back to your corpse when you die. :p
21:37.42Krolmorsure, but seeing as the better endgame weaps are bows (aren't they?) ..
21:37.52Krolmorlol Keolah
21:37.54KeolahThere's some nice guns too.
21:38.09KrolmorI was wondering if shadowmeld wouldn't be a little bit useful for world pvp
21:38.48KeolahProbably a bit, I dunno, I haven't really bothered with it.
21:39.16KeolahI mean, I don't play a pvp server ;p
21:39.44Krolmoralso... I've been trying very hard to find a PvP server without much endgame progression to join - does anyone havea  recommendation?
21:39.50Keolah... and I think I have a hunter of every race except dwarf.
21:40.00Krolmorthe hate!
21:40.09KeolahNah, just most of my chars are female and female dwarves are scary.
21:42.36AmarandeAfternoon Keolah :)
21:42.38KrolmorEST = GMT -4 correct?
21:42.43Amarandeand Krolmor, who cares what weapons races start with
21:42.52Amarandeit's what, 10, 20 silver to learn the other ones your class is eligible for? :)
21:43.27KrolmorI don't really, but I was just wondering if racials could be very important endgame (not that I'll ever get there)
21:43.46AmarandeKrolmor: racials tend to be more important in PvP than PvE
21:43.59AmarandeKeolah, are they as scary as gnomes, though? :)
21:44.06KeolahGnomes are just pure evil.
21:44.40AmarandePersonally, I find I usually only use my racials much really early on in the newbie areas, once I start actually having most of my class skills I rarely use the racials
21:44.53*** join/#wowwiki A2 (
21:45.03Amarandeand this is as a BE, who arguably have one of the most useful racials in the game
21:45.18KeolahGift of the Naaru isn't terrible so far as racials go, either.
21:45.33foxlitShadowmeld is <3
21:45.47Krolmor^there we go
21:46.06foxlitPerception is virtually useless in pve, though
21:46.09KeolahI really should make a dwarf hunter sometime.
21:46.16foxlitDiplomacy eats it alive, however.
21:46.23pcji have 257 days 17 hours 17 minutes /played on my character
21:46.32KeolahMy human rogue is almost looking forward to grinding ogres in Nagrand. :P
21:47.06KrolmorI just need to find a pvp server where people actually do world pvp
21:47.07AmarandeKeolah: JC?
21:47.20AmarandeYeah, I have that in my future too on Alvaerin
21:47.31Amarandeexalted with Consortium is not optional :)
21:47.37Krolmoror huge raids in towns... jeebus it was so fun to watch them back 2 years ago
21:47.54KeolahBut right now.. my bf is napping, so I have headcrabs to kill.
21:48.20Amaranderight now, I'm questing in Netherstorm and will probably stop to grind angry blood elves until exalted
21:48.30Amarandeit always gives me a bit of a shudder when I kill a female blood elf though :|
21:48.38KeolahThey enjoy it, really.
21:48.45Amarandewell, my character IS a female blood elf
21:48.51AmarandeI keep thinking of all the various times I've died, lol
21:48.53Keolah(Now, succubi, you can _really_ tell they enjoy the pain a bit much.)
21:49.24Amarande <-- me
21:51.23Amarandeshould I use my talasites and dawnstones to my advantage later, or shall I just make them into resilience gems and sell em
21:51.45Krolmorzomg hakz +0 mp5
21:51.50AmarandeKrolmor: armory bug
21:52.03Amarandeit actually has 17 stam, 11 int, and 4 mp5
21:52.07KrolmorI know :) it just creeps me out every time I spot it :D
21:53.25Keolah <-- my poor, confused pally.
21:53.33Kyrinso, I'm not seeing in the config stuff how I can access a character page using their name instead of c:###
21:53.51*** join/#wowwiki igormorgado (n=igormorg@
21:53.54Amarandebtw, how's my affliction spec look (I think I got it from the wiki to begin with)
21:54.15AmarandeKeolah: Vendor gems FTL :S
21:54.20Keolahand don't even ask about poor Scregor's spec.
21:54.34Amarandetoo bad you're not on horde Turalyon
21:54.40AmarandeI have tons of extra gems I could send your way
21:54.56Amarandemostly because everyone grinds jc on the same gems, so nobody can really sell any on the AH lol
21:55.00Keolah <-- my JC I'm currently leveling up.
21:55.42Amarandeahh, you're almost up to the ugly stage
21:55.59AmarandeI remember 260+ and especially 290+ to really be a pain
21:56.11KeolahYeah, I need to go make some thorium settings, and then wince when they turn green :P
21:56.21KeolahWas working on getting lockpicking up this morning.
21:56.39Amarandeafter 300, it gets easy because then you just prospect all your adamantite and fel iron and keep cutting everything, but 290-300 is painful
21:56.45Amarandeeven if you're rich, it's painful
21:57.05Amarandemainly because you need huge emeralds for -everything- and there usually aren't even enough on AH
21:57.19KeolahI need to get Scregor's blacksmithing up sometime, too, but it's gotten to the "slightly painful" stage, too ;p
21:57.21Amarandestill remember 299
21:57.38AmarandeI had plenty of gold on hand at the time ... plenty of other mats ... and I was stuck for a day or so because there wasn't a huge emerald to be found
21:57.54Amarande(and I didn't really feel like spending the entire evening circling Burning Steppes)
21:58.13Amarandeby "slightly painful" you mean "have to circle all the way round burning steppes to get the thorium for one skill up"?
21:58.33KeolahNah, he's at the point where everything that would raise his skill reliably requires primal stuff.
21:58.40AmarandeAhh, that point.
21:58.44AmarandeMakes me glad to be a JC.
21:59.01KeolahMy other level 70 is a miner/skinner. Yay, easy-to-max professions! :P
21:59.16Keolah.. maxed before leaving Zangarmarsh, heh. :P
22:00.21AmarandeI should probably only need to spend another ... hmm, however much ten Earthstorm Diamonds cost to max JC
22:00.30AmarandeI think I maxed mining in Nagrand
22:00.58Amarandewhich surprises me, because when I first got there I'm like "good god, there's no mining nodes here :S"
22:01.05Keolah <-- Night elves might have useless racials, but they're sexy. :p
22:01.28*** join/#wowwiki PanSola (
22:01.28*** mode/#wowwiki [+v PanSola] by ChanServ
22:01.42AmarandeAhh, my hunter's an orc, and has BS/Engineering
22:02.12Amarandewhich means Alvaerin has a LOT of mining to do, on the one hand, but on the other hand it should make it not matter so much that hunters are often discriminated against in instance groups
22:02.25*** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=Sky2042@wikimedia/Izno)
22:02.25*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Sky2042] by ChanServ
22:02.38AmarandeSince BS/Eng means that he'll be pretty decked out in purples just from crafting (armorsmith spec)
22:03.13KeolahHunters are, however, quite good in soloing and small groups, which is the majority of what I do.
22:03.40AmarandeI do almost all soloing, due mainly to guild being too small, even if friendly and helpful when people are around
22:03.52KeolahI primarily just play with my bf.
22:04.16AmarandeI could go hang with my old GW buddies who also have dual WoW guilds
22:04.21KeolahAnd for most non-instance stuff, a hunter pet makes a perfectly fine tank.
22:04.40Amarandebut I like my 70, and their horde guild is on a PvP server so I can't xfer there
22:05.15Amarandebesides, 5000g is enough of a pain to get when you only have to worry about competing with ninja miners
22:05.40Amarandeit's gotta be even worse when you have to worry about competing with ninja miners who will not only take your node but kill you as well :)
22:06.15KeolahEven so, killing certain elites can be... interesting. I remember when me and my bf killed that overlord in Hellfire, whassisname, Arazzius the Cruel? with our hunter and feral druid...
22:06.15Amarandeand while I'm patient enough to have the fast flying mount itself
22:06.24AmarandeI still have to pay the 5000g, since I want to do the netherwing stuff
22:06.48AmarandeI remember the quest was [63G] Cruel's Intentions but I can't remember the boss name offhand
22:06.48Krolmorok, someone slap my face and tell me to roll a dwarf hunter please... >.>
22:07.15AmarandeI had a mostly easy time with Hellfire, though, most of the problems I had were because I was trying to rush because I hated that zone
22:07.17Keolahmake a female night elf and run around naked. ;P
22:07.24Krolmorlol :p
22:07.35KrolmorI love teldrassil....
22:07.38KeolahHeh. Yeah, it's kind of depressing.
22:07.38AmarandeHFP is probably my single least favorite zone in the game
22:07.49KeolahAnd Fel Reavers are heart-attack-inducing.
22:07.56*** join/#wowwiki Corgan (
22:08.00AmarandeNot even just fel reavers.
22:08.06AmarandePatting elites all over the damned place in general.
22:08.37AmarandeDon't think I've ever been to Teldrassil
22:08.52KeolahBut yeah. Our strategy for killing that guy consisted of "druid goes cat form, pet tanks until it dies, druid goes bear form and tanks, hunter rezzes pet, then keep hitting the damned thing and hope it does before the druid does" :P
22:08.54Amarandemy only Alliance characters have been Draenei who never leveled far, and my Horde characters have never had reason to go there :)
22:09.06AmarandeDon't think I've even SEEN Teldrassil, while I've at least flown over Dun Morogh and Elwynn
22:09.20Krolmoroh man
22:09.27Krolmorit's so green and peaceful T_T
22:09.30KeolahI went to Teldrassil once on a troll hunter at level 10, to tame an owl.
22:09.37KeolahIt was not peaceful for a troll.
22:09.44Amarandeyeah, owls are a tad hard to get for lower level horde
22:09.57AmarandeI don't think you really get access to nice looking owls in normal questing areas till ... Winterspring?
22:10.13KeolahFelwood's got the same gray sort as Teldrassil.
22:10.21Krolmorgeez, half the pets in petopia are no longer tamable
22:10.21KeolahI like the look of the white ones better, though.
22:10.30AmarandeAhh ... I always had a hard time telling if the Felwood owls were sick like the other Felwood animals
22:11.00Amarandeheh, you can't even get a ghost wolf anymore
22:11.01KeolahBut if I get that troll hunter up to Outland, I'd like to tame one of those nice brown-gold owls.
22:11.11Amarandethough I'm really more after the red-brown wolf eventually on my hunter
22:11.18Amarandewhich may be even rarer than the ghostwolf in practice
22:11.20Krolmoryeah, it saddened me to see one in town the other day :/ I'll never get ont
22:11.39Krolmorwhich wolf is that?
22:11.40KeolahIn practice, the "rare" pets are things like spiders that hardly anyone actually uses :P
22:11.43Amarandelots of people went for the ghostwolf due to the good ol' "everyone likes the novelty so now it's not one anymore"
22:11.55AmarandeKrolmor: the kind like are in Burning Steppes, and I think in one part of BEM
22:12.04Amarandebut those are the *only* places you find them, pretty much
22:12.05KeolahI've gotten many compliments on my draenei hunter's bat.
22:12.13Amarandeand as no one actually goes to Burning Steppes anymore other than miners and warlocks ...
22:12.19KeolahIt was interesting to go to Tirisfal Glades to tame a bat at level 10, too. :P
22:12.24KeolahWith a draenei.
22:12.30KrolmorI love the skin on Humar
22:12.41KeolahHumar's got a pretty skin, yeah, it's a pity EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER has one. :p
22:12.45AmarandeAt least Tirisfal is less hostile than getting to NE/Draenei low level areas though
22:13.06AmarandeCurrently though, Amaagnar uses a furry green spider.
22:13.08Krolmornot sure if alliance side is fulla Humars though
22:13.08KeolahIt's either him, or Echeyakee, or the ghost saber, seems like.
22:13.14KeolahYep. :p
22:13.22AmarandeAnd really, I start to wonder, why are spiders unpopular anyway?
22:13.28KeolahAnd I've seen more with Echeyakee's than is even sane.
22:13.35KeolahBecause they've got crap skills.
22:13.40Amarandethey're an easy tame compared to many pets because the mobs lack special abilities (unlike *UGH* carrion birds I HATE SWOOP)
22:13.45KeolahThey can't dash and their only attack is bite.
22:13.54KeolahEasy to tame isn't generally a consideration.
22:14.00KeolahExcept for certain things like Shy'Rotam.
22:14.01Krolmornever seen soop in action... is it something like rush?
22:14.08Amarandethey have good DPS without being below baseline in any other areas
22:14.32AmarandeI can't think of a skin that isn't easily obtained without having to worry about the caster pet distinction, and most skins are available without needing to be super high level
22:14.32KeolahBut some pets, like spiders, would make much better pets if they actually had any actual skills. Why don't spiders have any sort of web or poison skill? Ugh.
22:14.51Amarandeehh, to me a lack of species skills has its advantages
22:15.10KeolahBut that didn't stop my bf from taming one for one of his hunters, either. Hehe.
22:15.17Amarandeyou can feel free to go all out on defensive abilities without thinking "gee, should I have saved some TP for (whatever)?"
22:15.43Amarandeplus the defensive abilities are actually buyable :)
22:15.48KeolahI'm rather fond of bats and birds, though. Screech is pretty nice... exceptwhen leveling in Un'goro crater and you accidentally aggro a stone guardian.
22:15.51laurlywhats this wow talk in #wowwiki..... thats a new one
22:15.59Amarandeno having to stable the pet and be super vulnerable to tame something just to grab an ability and throw away the pet again
22:16.25AmarandeOuch. I wasn't aware you could aggro the stone guardians with screech :|
22:16.45Amarandeheck I used a voidwalker all the way up and I don't remember Suffering giving me issues with them
22:17.09KeolahMy 70 hunter has a cat, though. Yet another purple Winterspring cat. :P I thought they were so pretty, but now I'm thinking of switching back to the white-on-black striped skin that I leveled up to 60 with :p
22:17.20AmarandeBirds look awesome, but I'm still trying to figure out how you deal in any reasonably convenient manner with the fact that most birds have a stun
22:17.29KeolahFreezing trap :p
22:17.43Amarandeespecially since my understanding of Tame Pet's "if you lose the beast's attention" part to mean that having the pet-to-be be tanked is not allowed
22:18.19AmarandeI love Winterspring. I just hope Northrend isn't ALL going to look like that though
22:18.21KeolahPut down freezing trap, concussive shot at max range, start taming.
22:18.32KeolahIf you really want to make sure not to get hit ;p
22:18.52Amarandeyeah, not getting hit is a big issue with birds
22:19.07KeolahAnd if you're really paranoid, you can put some terrain obstacles in the way and watch them try to make their way around.
22:19.07Amarandemost other pets, if you're geared enough, just stand there and take the beating ... the reason I worry with birds is that they have the stupid swoop skill
22:19.26KeolahYeah, similar problem if you want a white bear at a low level, with Mangeclaw.
22:19.32Amarandeat least tame pet doesn't have pushback though :)
22:20.01KeolahWhat's annoying?
22:20.11KeolahOne of the tauren hunter taming quests involves killing a freaking swoop :P
22:20.18KeolahTHAT was a pain in the ass ;p
22:20.25pcjfuck swoops
22:20.35Amarandeyeah, especially if you do it right away I suppose
22:20.41Amarandesometimes it helps to delay things a bit
22:20.48Amarandelike with my warlock, I didn't pick up my voidwalker till level 14
22:21.00KeolahYeah, and since you'll usually want a pet as soon as possible unless you're already grouping a lot...
22:21.15Amarande(mainly, though, that was because I was following pre-planned quest circuits, and was waiting till I would actually be in the right area before I did the warlock quest at the same time)
22:21.16KeolahTook me 5 tries to get that damned swoop tamed, I had to go back to get another taming rod :p
22:21.58AmarandeI try quite hard to avoid going out of my way to a place to do just one quest.
22:22.00KeolahAnd then I was stubborn enough not to tame a temp pet and just tame the pet I wanted, and had to hang around its spawn area for like an hour... but I really wnated that pink tallstrider :P
22:22.13AmarandeEspecially if I know I can get other quests in the same spot if I wait.
22:22.20Krolmorcrap... spiders only have... bite?
22:22.31Krolmorthat's just messed up.
22:22.33AmarandeLike I said, spiders are probably best used as tanks
22:22.44Amarandebecause the lack of extra skills means you can pile on the passives
22:22.47KeolahEvery pet makes a good tank, though.
22:23.06Amarandepets that actually have skills, you have to decide if you want to sacrifice some passives to actually let them know them
22:23.11Krolmorwell yeah
22:23.23Krolmorto me, not having any kind of dash kills the pet
22:23.37Krolmorit's so annoying, ugh
22:23.38KeolahHeh, my cat's got max lvel in natural armor, and still knows max ranks of all the other cat skills available ;p
22:23.46Amarandein outland, I'm probably going to want to keep shadow and fire resistance as high as I can on any pet
22:23.56KeolahIt's not really too bad. You can take a talent in beast mastery to raise its movement speed.
22:24.01KeolahIf you really must ;p
22:24.21KeolahI think it's 1 point for a 30% movement increase?
22:24.27KeolahThat's what my bf did with his spider pet.
22:24.42Krolmoryou know when you want to play so bad, but you also just wanna learn the class so bad and think about all the awesomeness that you can do in game?
22:24.44KeolahNice thing about it is that it's a permanent increase, and you don't need to wait for it to cooldown like wit hdash at times ;p
22:25.07AmarandeI also start to wonder if marksmanship might be a better spec if I want to do more instancing
22:25.24KeolahI'm far too fond of beast mastery, myself.
22:25.27AmarandePets suck in instances :S
22:25.50KeolahUgh, I remember this time me and some friends failed at doing Ragefire Chasm... :p
22:25.51AmarandeI prefer to have a human player to cuss out when we overpull and wipe, lol
22:25.58AmarandeHow do you fail at RFC!
22:26.08KeolahGuy playing blood elf pally was like "I don't know when to use righteous defense"...
22:26.10Krolmorthe usual is to have 2 pets and one slot free to learn skills?
22:26.14KeolahI told him "When my mage is getting beaten on :P"
22:26.36AmarandeKeolah, that may be partly your fault
22:26.43KeolahKrolmor - Personally I generally only have one permanent pet on a char.
22:26.45AmarandeI always cringe when we have a mage in an instance group, especially in Azeroth
22:26.58AmarandeEspecially when I have to heal :S
22:27.15KeolahAnd the hunter was constantly trying to tank with his pet and forgetting to keep mend pet up, and the pally didn't realize that if he's not tanking, he really should be healing the poor pet too :p
22:27.18Krolmorbut you can have up to three at any time? or am I off and it's 2?
22:27.41Krolmorah ty
22:27.52KeolahBasically, it wound down to me constantly telling everyone else in the group how to play their classes because they were such noobs ;p
22:27.55Amarandeanother fun thing about being a warlock. :)
22:27.57KrolmorJEEBUS! I can't decide to roll dwarf or ne!
22:28.03AmarandeKeolah: you DID make sure not to pull aggro, right?
22:28.03Keolahmake both.
22:28.22Amarandethe reason I cringe over mages in instance groups in Azeroth is twofold, basically
22:28.27KeolahWhen I could, and I was good about sheeping extras and not the things they were attacking at the time, etc ;p
22:28.28KrolmorKeolah: yer killing me -.-
22:28.46Amarande1) Everyone specs for DPS on the way up, so mages are giving 110%, with that much threat coming out of them
22:28.48Krolmor(how do you put that little highlight on someone's name anyway)
22:28.59Amarande2) Almost no one, other than some Paladins specs for tanking on the way up, so the tank is NOT giving 110% ...
22:29.00KeolahMost of the time, we wiped because the pet died because they forgot to heal it :p
22:29.26AmarandeKeolah: Could be worse. In GW when a pet dies, the ranger's skills get put on a cooldown that depends on their beast mastery spec
22:29.37KeolahThe pet held aggro just fine most of the time, even against my mage's spells... they just forgot about mend pet and idiot pally forgot he could heal.
22:30.20AmarandeAnyway I still remember the time in ZF where we kept wiping because the mage kept screwing up
22:30.28Amarandepulling aggro, pulling too many scarabs ...
22:30.46Amarandemeanwhile I was trying to heal the whole thing
22:30.55Amarandeand not being able to give my 100% for that, because I wasn't specced for healing
22:31.03KeolahI hate when pallies are relegated to "healers in plate", but in that case, the pet was holding aggro far, far better than he was without even trying to ;p
22:31.11Keolah... once IDIOT HUNTER realized all pets could learn growl...
22:31.18Amarandeoh yeah, wich means, there's a third reason to dislike mages in instance groups ...
22:31.48Amarande3) Not only is the leveling-up spec world such that most of the time the mage will be giving 110% and the tank will not, but the healer often isn't giving their all either, because heal specs suck for leveling even more than tanking specs do.
22:31.59KeolahY'know, I'd really like to make a prot warrior sometime, but I really don't want to level up as prot and I hate planning to respec :p
22:32.00AmarandeI mean, I'm actually leveling my warrior as prot, and it's not going so bad
22:32.13Amarandewhile I would have HATED leveling my priest as holy ... shadow is hard enough
22:32.44KeolahI leveled my troll priest as disc. Because I wanted to be different. ;p
22:32.57Krolmornaxx spiders are no longer tameable either jeebus
22:33.19AmarandeShadow is like being a warlock, except you have only one fire and forget DoT, you don't have a minion, your "active cast" DoT has no pushback resistance talent, your shadowbolt type spell may be stronger but has a horrid cooldown ...
22:33.44Amarandeyou also don't have a really viable secondary element for dealing with things like vacillating voidcallers, either
22:33.58Adyslol naxx spiders used to be tameable?
22:34.13Krolmorat some point, i think so
22:34.54Amarandein the time it takes to get a naxx group, you could tame a darkmist recluse and level it to 61
22:35.18KeolahMy draenei priest, though, is leveling up as shadow. With my bf's like 5 millionth hunter :p
22:35.28Amarandehell, I leveled pretty much all the way through 61 while waiting for groups for the dungeons for my dreadsteed quest
22:35.38AmarandeI actually dinged 62 in Dire Maul, and only started questing in HFP at 62
22:35.58Amarandethis proved to be a very good thing
22:36.00Krolmorzarakh is probably over-ppulated too isnt it
22:36.05Krolmorzarakh skin i mean
22:36.13Amarandebecause I ended up losing back most of the "advantage" due to not being able to instance in Outland
22:36.37Amarandemost people seem to be able to hit 70 in BEM and have all of NS and SMV for gold, I had to do some quests in NS to hit 70
22:36.58Amarandethe only time I've had a chance to instance in Outland with Alvaerin has been one time in Mana Tombs
22:37.21AmarandeKeolah: what zone are you usually up to in Outland when you hit 70, since you seem not to group much?
22:37.48KeolahGenerally do a bit of both Netherstorm and Shadowmoon but haven't finished either.
22:37.58KeolahEverything else, finished all normal quests.
22:38.20KeolahAnd I group all the time, just with only my bf most of the time.
22:38.23Krolmorcan you tame those little dragons in redridge?
22:38.27AmarandeAhh. Did pretty much all the nongroup quests in earlier zones, a few of the group quests, and still had to do several quests in NS to hit 70 even though I started Outland at 62
22:38.30KeolahNope, they're dragonkin, not beasts.
22:38.57AmarandeI think the only nongroup quests I'm missing that I can think of are in BEM
22:39.34KeolahMy hunter skipped Eastern Plaguelands, and had done most of Netherstorm and a bit of Shadowmoon when she dinged. My pally had done EPL, Silithus, and Winterspring, and was only like halfway through Netherstorm when he hit 70.
22:39.36Amarande(excluding the remaining NS and SMV quests - only things I've done in SMV are turn in the goto quest from Nutral and the goto quest from Nagrand, got my 225 riding and the FP there)
22:40.06AmarandeI did a fair amount in Silithus and almost everything in Plaguelands, dinged 61 while in Silithus
22:40.17Amarande(and I was surprised, as I didn't think it was reasonable to get past 60 in Azeroth)
22:40.36KeolahYeah, pally was 61 by the time we got sick of EPL, there were still a couple things left to do there but we didn't care to do em.
22:40.47KeolahDamned place is depressing. :P
22:40.55Amarande61 was mostly grind, plus a bunch of xp from the dreadsteed questline. Stood around farming for Crusader enchant while waiting for the instance groups I needed
22:41.02myke54142i stopped doing any quests as soon as i hit 70
22:41.08myke54142not much point in it
22:41.10Amarandemyke54142: gold
22:41.16KeolahLots and lots of gold.
22:41.20Amarandeyou get like 10+ gold per quest at 70
22:41.30Amarandeplus the sale of any useless reward items, and what you kill
22:41.41KeolahMy 70s have all been regularly doing primarily the daily cooking quest and bombing kaliri eggs since they hit 70.
22:41.56KeolahBut I keep meaning to go through and finish up the regular quests in Netherstorm and Shadowmoon sometime.
22:41.59Amarandetoo bad xp doesn't turn into gold from kills too, which is why I delayed as much as possible turning in my completed quests while I was still at 69 in NS
22:42.14Amarandethat reminds me, I need to grind cooking and fishing again
22:42.22Amarandefishing is still at 300, cooking 315
22:42.35myke54142what do you get from maxed out fishing and cooking?
22:42.50KeolahI need to work on my hunter's fishing a bit myself, heh.
22:42.58KeolahIt's only at like 315.
22:42.59KeolahCooking's maxed though.
22:43.00Amarandemyke54142: not sure if there's any cooking recipes that actually require 375
22:43.11Amarandefishing, you need to max in order to have a reasonable chance at crawdad
22:43.17Adysupdating ptrs one by one
22:43.18myke54142i just log into my bank alt once a day and work the AH
22:43.20Adysso awesome
22:43.39Amarandebasically you need maxed fishing, a +100 lure, and if you are Alliance, you will probably feel forced to do the Fishing Extravaganza until you win
22:44.05Amarandeif you are Horde, you get a +25 pole in Hinterlands so the Extravaganza may not be worth the effort
22:44.33myke54142yeah got that a long time ago
22:44.52AmarandeEven with max lure and Nat Pagle's, though, that's still 500 fishing, you'll still have a fair % of getaways
22:45.02pcjuh there's a pole from a quest in shatt
22:45.05pcjthat does fine
22:45.14KeolahYeah, it's +20 I think.
22:45.39AmarandeI think they added that in large part to give Alliance a leg up versus Horde in the food department, even though it's a neutral quest
22:46.03AmarandeBefore BC, Alliance almost HAD to do the extravaganza to compete in fishing terms, while Horde just had to do an ezmode quest in Hinterlands
22:46.26AmarandeAs if STV wasn't crowded enough as it is. :P
22:46.39AmarandeThey NEED to make Desolace not suck :S
22:46.44myke54142what's the food you get out of it?
22:46.55Amarandemyke54142: spiced crawdads
22:47.24Amarande30 stam, 20 spirit buff
22:47.41Amarandeit's also 7500 food, and can be eaten at 55, while basic 7500 food usually requires 65
22:48.14Amarandeanyway, yes, they really, really need to work on Desolace to make it not suck
22:48.23myke54142oh yeah that's nice
22:48.33Amarandeand probably the 30-45 range zones in general, adding Mudsprocket to DWM was a good start
22:48.57myke54142dwm is a lot nicer now, just got done doing all the (obvious) quests there
22:49.10Amarandetrouble is that basically everyone, unless they do tons of instance grinding, has to go to STV for a substantial time in that level range
22:49.18Amarandeand STV is too crowded
22:49.29myke54142pre-patch i musta spent an hour running around trying to find that zep and never did until on accident many levels later
22:49.44Amarandeeven on Turalyon (which is Medium most of the time, but drops to Low at non-peak periods) you have to wait for repop pretty often in STV
22:49.45myke54142hmm, i just skipped stv entirely as ac
22:50.10myke54142darkshire -> dustwallow
22:50.12AmarandeI didn't go there much on my priest either, but that is mainly because I toughed it out in Desolace, combined with a lot of grinding in SM
22:50.39myke54142just hit 40, never went to desolace or stv, and only hit sm once as a novelty with a high level
22:50.49Amarandeand RFD and Ulda too
22:50.57Amarandeugh, Uldaman sucks as a caster
22:51.06myke54142rfd doesn't seem like a good deal as ac
22:51.14myke54142i need to run it on one of my horde alts tho
22:51.37myke54142going to get the ulda quests tonight
22:51.39Amarandethere's like 2, maybe 3 boss blues in the entire friggin instance that can even legally be used by a priest, let alone whether they're actually useful to one
22:51.53KeolahI once did blackfathom deeps... with a level 61 pally... ;p
22:51.57KeolahIt was hilarious ;p
22:52.11myke54142i just buy that stuff
22:52.17myke54142easier than running instances just for some drop
22:52.23AmarandeI did BFD once ... other than that, I didn't really get into instancing on my priest till SM, Ulda, RFD, ZF
22:52.33KeolahConsecration FTW! :P
22:52.42AmarandeI've never really felt like spending much money on AH, unless I really need mats to grind a profession
22:52.51myke54142if you don't work the ah you're missing out
22:52.54Amarandeuntil all my characters are 70 and have flying mounts ...
22:52.58myke54142i've made by far more money on ah than anything else
22:53.01Amarandemyke54142: I sell, but I don't buy much
22:53.04myke54142my current alt had 20g by level 10
22:53.10myke54142just buying and selling
22:53.30myke54142ppl just don't pay attention to prices at all, apparently
22:53.43myke54142it's not uncommon to turn around 25G with a few mins work
22:54.11myke54142or by buying a stack of something expensive and parting it out
22:55.11myke54142ignoring the ah was my biggest mistake on my first toon
22:55.30myke54142i hit 40 with 35G and couldn't figure out how these other ppl in my guild had hundreds
22:56.32myke54142and of course no one is ever patient enough to bid instead of buyout
22:56.51myke54142so you can get insane deals on bid-only items, which are usually posted by ppl who just click the button w/o looking at or changing the settings
23:15.39*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (
23:15.39*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ
23:22.21*** join/#wowwiki A2` (
23:24.15Kirkburnooh, useful: "IE8 will automatically strip out excess carriage returns and line feeds within a URL when pasted into the Address Bar."
23:24.26AmarandeI keep wondering if there's a way to set up a joystick for flying mount movement :S
23:24.32KirkburnRequest! I need feedback on and related pages
23:24.35foxlitStop pasting carriage returns?
23:24.39AmarandeKirkburn: THOU SHALT NOT PRAISE IE
23:24.54Kirkburnfoxlit, annoying if you copy from a line-broken email for example
23:25.06AmarandeMicrosoft = ... hmm, was it Goblin or Gnomish engineering that's known for periodic mechanical errors? :)
23:25.22KirkburnAlso need feedback on the menu on
23:25.31AmarandeKirkburn: perhaps you need to know the history of IE :)
23:25.42foxlitGnomish engineering is branded as safe, but in reality it's just as unsafe as goblin :P
23:25.48AmarandeOne day, the goblin and gnome engineers decided to get together and share their secrets to make one Super Kontraption
23:25.53foxlitSo that renders Firefox to be a gnome :P
23:26.08AmarandeIt turned out to be Internet Explorer, and the goblin and gnome engineers agreed never to work with each other again
23:26.37foxlitKirkburn: those boxes have serious wrapping issues at lower resolutions
23:27.10Kirkburnfoxlit, which boxes?
23:28.19Amarandealso, I noticed more about that tooltip issue I mentioned yesterday
23:28.27Amarandeit appears to happen the most when mousing directly down a list
23:28.37*** join/#wowwiki Krolmor (
23:29.16Amarandefor instance. hmm, maybe you guys fixed it :)
23:29.23KirkburnI just want feedback on and menu for now
23:29.30Amarandesomehow I just managed to mouse all the way up and down the Sha'tar faction rewards list without glitch
23:29.31Kirkburnpcj does the tooltip code, bug him :)
23:29.55Amarande... and discovered I need to be friggin revered with sha'tar to make an alchemist's stone when my alch gets that high :S
23:30.04AmarandeI hate trying to get Sha'tar rep :|
23:30.14pcjkirkburn, what about putting an inputbox in the new main page where the search link is
23:30.18Kirkburnfoxlit, I just tweaked the help box to prevent that going too over
23:30.56KirkburnIt could probably be entirely removed
23:31.00winkillerKirk, do you still play your warlock?
23:31.08Amarandeand my JC apparently will want to be revered at some point as well
23:31.20KirkburnOr just turned into an image, since the search box will be top left on the skin
23:31.29Amarandethough for now I'll be happy enough with honored so I can get the TK heroic key, since most of the action on Turalyon is in heroics :)
23:31.45winkiller <- bosses clicky box still broken
23:31.46Amarandewonder if I stand a chance of being able to walk into a TK instance, kill the first trash mob, and get out
23:31.51winkillerand I have no clue how to fix i
23:32.16Amarandeat least to just be able to tick over to honored after I finish with all the scryers stuff
23:32.18kd3wfm. you have javascript disabled?
23:33.50AmarandeMeanwhile. At least three dorky WoW spoof songs that need to be written:
23:33.58AmarandeAddicted to WoW, Tainted Ooze, and Nether Ray. :)
23:34.17Amarande(And if you don't know all the original titles, you're too young. :S)
23:34.17Kirkburnfoxlit, poke
23:37.11AdysKirkburn:  make the wikia gaming section a two-column list
23:37.29Adysshould get it to the level of the other column on default
23:38.08Adysalso, damn
23:39.15KirkburnTwo columns is a good idea
23:44.10pcjwas it safari that was 90% standards-compliant?
23:45.19foxlitDon't think a % figure would ever make sense
23:46.05Adysthey got 90% to acid3
23:46.08Adysthats all :p
23:46.18winkillerkd3: ah! error found
23:46.19foxlitNot that firefox is any better at rendering that page
23:46.28winkillerkd3: the JS was moved from to
23:46.33winkillerso noscript blocked it ofc
23:46.44winkillerbut I knew it worked, so didn't look closely enough
23:46.58foxlitAnd the browser that renders WoWWiki best is...
23:47.02foxlitINTERNET EXPLORER.
23:47.12foxlitLadies and gentlemen, hold your applause.
23:48.11pcj"This site designed for Internet Explorer 4.0 and 640x480 resolution"
23:49.18Kasopcj what's worst is websites that use UA to prevent other clients from viewing the website
23:49.24Adysyou made me crash :(
23:49.36Adyskaso: hotmail
23:50.52KirkburnWish I'd never mentioned IE8 now
23:51.22foxlit[the best browser ever]
23:51.32Kirkburn <-- more updates done
23:56.48Amarandeheh, is mediawiki designed to favor IE, or did you guys decide to? :S
23:59.42pcjuh it's not designed to favor anything

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