IRC log for #wowwiki on 20080121

00:00.57sacaraschmmm... Maggoc :|
00:01.33sacarascgot thrown by that gnome device thing right at him
00:01.34sacarasc\o/
00:16.24Sky2042Zeal: still working on the cat tree?
00:22.36sacarasccat tree? ;o
00:22.57Zealaye
00:23.08Zealnot going too deep
00:23.20Zealbut almost done, leaving WoWWiki cat alone for now.
00:23.24Zealand image stuff.
00:27.03ZealSky, take al ook now, should be mostly complete
00:27.31Zealgunna post al ink to it in the discussion on VP, can leave feedback there it's very rough keep in mind.
00:29.24Sky2042Biggest issues I have is that the whole thing has capitalized categories.
00:29.26Sky2042:P
00:29.40Sky2042You really /didn't/ go into detail though...
00:30.19Sky2042Don't know that we need both a flora nad a fauna category.
00:30.21Sky2042:/
00:31.20Sky2042having parantheses in the middle of certain cats looks annoying...
00:31.54Sky2042probably shouldn't use abbreviations if at all possible (eg, Warcraft I units as opposed to WC1 units)
00:32.41Sky2042I don't know why mobs and npcs and etc are subcats of "Geography". makes no sense.
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00:34.41Sky2042hmm
00:34.43Sky2042wonder where my retainer went
00:34.48Sky2042ah
00:35.12Zealgeography is the study of the world, it's people, it's culture, it's practices etc.
00:35.34Sky2042true. but most people think of geography simply as where someone is.
00:35.45Sky2042based on surrounding land.
00:35.52Sky2042landforms*
00:35.53Zealit's not just limited to study of the earth :p. And jsut so you know, that's how most of the wow content is categorized
00:36.13Zealso clearly people though otherwise and no one thought it needed to be changed.
00:36.24Zealand when i say most, i do mean most.
00:36.31Zeal80% of it? lol
00:36.57Zealfauna is for creatures and such
00:37.16Zealflora is soemthing we lack on really, but would be great to see added.
00:37.35Zealespecially as a lore entry point for herbs and such.
00:37.52Zealas to names, sure. i'll lower
00:38.07Zealand the abberviations was me being lazy really
00:38.10Zealwill fix.
00:38.28Sky2042I'd personally go with [[Category:Nature]] or leave it to [[Category:Creatures]] and [[Category:Plants]], etc
00:40.45Zealwell being lore, i would like to think people aren't stupid, so will understand geography, flora and fauna :p
00:41.01Sky2042but they won't.
00:41.08Zealthey will ;)
00:41.10Sky2042the masses are stupid.
00:41.13Sky2042that's just how it is.
00:41.27Adysexpert talks
00:41.33Adys:P
00:42.00Zealthe masses don't care about the lore. and the masses of people who do care about lore, don't deserve to learn if they don't know the meaning of those words :P
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00:42.35foxlitI demand more Outlands content, 'kay?!
00:42.37Sky2042And besides. No-one uses flora and fauna in normal every day usage, last I checked. You'll hear it occassionally....
00:42.39Sky2042foxlit: no.
00:42.41Zealbah, lowering case will take a bit more time, i can't pull regex's out of my ass :/
00:42.52Sky2042I can run through and replace prolly.
00:42.54Zeallol
00:43.04Zealsure, go for it.
00:43.50Sky2042what am I replacing?
00:43.51Sky2042ah
00:43.58Sky2042heh
00:44.07Zealjust keep in mind, actual game titles should be kept as capitals. like product titles etc.
00:44.07Sky2042maybe not on that one
00:44.11Sky2042yes
00:44.17Sky2042because they're proper nouns. :P
00:44.32Zealyuup
00:45.06Zeali capitalize because i think the title of an article should be title case, simple as that.
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00:52.24pcjyeah but wikis are different because you link to pages in the middle of sentences
00:52.40pcjsince title case usually isn't appropriate there it's better to make the page names sentence case
00:53.39Sky2042o_o
00:53.43Zealmost cases you're talking about are proper nouns though
00:54.22Zealrefering to an original article though, because of it being an original body of work, using title case is correct.
00:54.47Zealvery few cases you would have a link on WW not in title case
00:54.48Zealbut meh.
00:55.01Zealdoen yet Sky2042? :P
00:55.06Zealgot another edit to make.
00:55.10Sky2042I have yet to touch it
00:55.12Sky2042make your edit.
01:01.17Sky2042Zeal: where would you place MVPs?
01:01.23Sky2042forum mvps*
01:01.35kd3community
01:02.05Sky2042assumed, but as a subcat?
01:02.52Zealnot placed yet, will do now if you wish.
01:04.06Sky2042you know, what I'd like to see is a giant category map... not one that we want, just as it stands.
01:04.09Sky2042xD
01:05.35Sky2042might need an additional cat
01:05.43Sky2042Cat:Forums or some such
01:09.15Zealthere, added. 3 entry points to such articles. think after fleshing it out, more likely end up at 4-5 entry points to them.
01:10.11Zeal3 direct, 4 inc indirect
01:11.02Zealand yeah, and existing map would be lol
01:11.20Zealthe lroe cat is pretty overloaded, first thing i noticed.
01:11.23Zeal*lore
01:11.37Sky2042would have to do it in an image editing program.
01:12.01Sky2042the what?...
01:12.13Zealwell if we had the cat tree extenstion installed, we could see it easily.
01:12.24Sky2042aye
01:12.29Sky2042and yes, the Lore cat is just a mess.
01:12.38Sky2042double-catting, mostly.
01:12.46Zealyuup
01:13.56Sky2042Like Bindings of the Windseeker... Why is it in Lore again?
01:14.19Zealrofl
01:14.34Zealwell bascially it seems anything that contained a bit of story got added to the cat
01:14.43Sky2042yeah..
01:14.52Zealwhich is not what it's for, it's for articles solely about the lore :P
01:14.58Zealand cats ofc.
01:14.59Sky2042I look forward to getting rid of the category "Lore characters"... -_-
01:15.11Zealwell i want that as jsut characters.
01:15.13Sky2042would be nice to just have categories based on appearances.
01:15.33Zealoh, we have the characters cat, woot.
01:15.43Sky2042eg "Rise of the Horde characters", "Magic and Mayhem characters", etc
01:16.15Zealwell that's what my idea for cats was supposed to address
01:16.26Sky2042?
01:16.27Zealbut we know where that went :P
01:17.23Zealhttp://www.wowwiki.com/User:Zeal/Proposals/Format#Categories
01:18.46Sky2042the way you tried to implement it is what failed
01:18.57Sky2042but no matter.
01:19.15Zealwhich aspect? the naming?
01:19.34Sky2042aye
01:19.42Zealthe naming was mainly to reduce the bloating of cat names
01:19.48Sky2042?
01:19.51Sky2042how so?
01:19.52Zealwhile providing no fonclit
01:20.43Sky2042!jobqueue
01:20.44[NewsBot]The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 20 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 20secs.
01:20.50Sky2042pretty short.
01:20.57Zealignore that actially
01:20.58Zealmeh
01:20.59Sky2042time to edit tooltip again, I think
01:21.01Sky2042=]
01:23.14Zeali'd just hate to see soemthing like Onyxia's loot vs. NPC:Onyxia/Items. the former breaks out of the context of wow and what the article's subject was, for anyone who doesn't know what an "Onyxia" is :p
01:25.02Sky2042....
01:25.04Sky2042you mean like
01:25.11Sky2042[[Category:Blackrock Depths items]]?
01:25.11[NewsBot]Sky2042 meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Blackrock_Depths_items
01:25.14Sky2042:o
01:25.44Sky2042or by actually using the name of Onyxia?
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01:26.55Sky2042lol
01:26.57Sky2042owned by pcj
01:27.19Sky2042In Soviet Russia, American spelling owns you!
01:30.11ZealYeah, i'd rather see [[Category:Zone:Blackrock Depths/Items]], shows that it's a zone in WoW, and that the relationship is that these are WoW items located in that zone. The other could easily be Blackrock Depths items article name, or a website called that with items created by that site, or simply Blackrock Depths items, eg. a non-set grouping of items.
01:31.19Sky2042you would... oh well.
01:31.37Zealthat's also asuming that the Item: namespace exists. if it doesn't, then it doesn't work as such a cat name wouldn't be obvious to a user as being WoW items (hence i wouldn't allow it)
01:31.43Zeallol
01:32.27Sky2042pcj is having fun with your request for feedback on vp :P
01:33.09Zeali noticed. typos ftl. and lol @ rumors
01:33.55Zealand sticking with Manwha. pissed off Tokyo pop market their stuff as Manga, just for the sake of it. all their original english language stuff is Manwha, korean.
01:34.20pcj*Manhwa
01:34.24Zealyeah i know..
01:34.42Zealthat's further loz : /
01:34.53Zeali bet i typed it all wrong in the articles too.
01:35.04pcji think that should be up for debate, not per your personal preference
01:35.16pcjafaik the wow comics are marketed as manga too
01:35.34Zealhuh?
01:35.37Zealthey're not
01:35.49Zealthey're marketed as comics, pure and simple.
01:35.59pcjhmm ok
01:36.59Adyslmao
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01:39.42ZealManga requires an japanese artist, but TokyoPop use it as a buzz word to market all their asian style drawn comics. : / The wow "manga" are all drawn by a Korean artist, making them manhwa. They're also original english manhwa (OEM, also for manga), simply meaning they were originally written in english. Wikipedia have them listed as manhwa too for reference.
01:41.23MentalPoweris there really a difference tho?
01:41.38ZealMOBs is actually an abbreviations btw. Speculation and terminology spelt correctly too : /
01:41.50MentalPowera surrealist piece is surrealist whether the artist is french, canadian, chinese or martian
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01:42.09RealUser19633394duuuuude
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01:42.21ZealDifferent art styles and origrin of artist is the only difference. Same can also be said about comic vs. manga.
01:42.51ZealMentalPower, you're using a generic term as an example
01:43.43MentalPowers/surrealist/impressionist/
01:43.53ZealAtm, it's like calling said piece a canadian surrealist piece when it's french.
01:44.19MentalPowerbut theres no such thing as a canadian surrealist
01:44.19KeolahOh, this is classic.
01:44.25MentalPoweror a french surrealist
01:44.32MentalPowerits surrealist period
01:44.44Zealin which case your example has no relevance :p
01:44.45KeolahRFC with a mage, pally, an hunter... and mage is having to tell the other two how to do their roles ;p
01:44.45MentalPowerthe native country of the artist has nothing to do with it
01:44.50AdysMentalPower: to your question
01:44.53Adysthere is a difference
01:45.12Adysif you want more details you'll have to accept what zeal tells you
01:45.24Adysif not, we'll stay at "there is a difference"
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01:46.11MentalPowererm...
01:46.28MentalPowerhow about you just present your evidence and I can refute or accept it
01:46.41Adysas i said
01:46.45Adysits what zeal said
01:46.55Adysdifferent style :/
01:47.31Adystheres no specific term for the kind of comic the wow comics are because its not as different and widespread as mangas
01:48.18MentalPowercan you give me an example of the two styles? (Manga vs. Manhwa)
01:48.29Zealthere'd be no argument if TokyoPop called them comics, as it's just an issue with accuracy, which can be overlooked. but when claiming something is drawn by a japanese artist in an japanese style when it's drawn by a korean artist in a korean style is a glaring issue.
01:49.20Zealhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manwha#Manhwa_style
01:49.23Zealall there for you.
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02:12.21MentalPowerthe best comparison that I've found so far is in the last post of this forum thread: http://the-evil-empire.net/index.php?showtopic=3086
02:12.29MentalPowerwould that be an accurate assessment?
02:12.40MentalPowerZeal, Adys: ^^^^
02:13.29Zeallast post of the topic or last post of the page of the topic? :P
02:13.46MentalPowerpage
02:14.16MentalPower(just realized there was more than one page)
02:14.30Zealyeah, roughly what i noticed about the wow ones
02:14.41Zealthey are like that, which is nothing like any manga i've read.
02:15.13MentalPowerso they are more detailed than mangas
02:16.06Zealremind me slightly of some english comics i've seen, alot mroe detailed and grittier than manga, but more of an asian influence than american comics.
02:17.29MentalPowerfair enough then
02:17.34MentalPowerI concede the point
02:17.49Zealbased on that post, that's probably why i disliked thme so much, i felt they jumped around a bit too much, but i had always put that down to Knaak's crap writing.
02:17.53Zealhehe
02:18.08Sky2042Zeal: I oppose the change of cat:spells' category to geography.
02:18.37Zealsky, question first. How are you viewing the purpose of the cat. For wow, or for lore?
02:19.44Zealit's being used for both atm. and i intend to use it for lore only. So i'm doing it from a lore view, avoiding a required knowledge of wow's mechanics and terminology.
02:20.18Sky2042wow.
02:20.19Zealand fyi, even as use for wow, it was wrong. Spells are the correct term for them all, abilities is a fan-term to describe the non-magic ones.
02:20.21Sky2042WoW
02:20.39MentalPowerZeal: the rest of that tread is also insightful
02:20.43Sky2042questionably.
02:20.56Zeali'm reading ti when i get a chance MentalPower :p
02:21.21Sky2042and how is it being used for both? :/
02:22.05Zealsky, in the game, they are Spells, both in the db and in the front end. But someone got the crazy idea to start using Spells to be the opposite of abilities, and the cat ended up inside the abilities cat, contradciting ww's definition even further.
02:22.19Zealbecause any lore spells would have been in there afaik
02:22.52Zealpretty much all this generic cats are being used for more than wow, but following wow's rules.
02:28.18Sky2042What's wrong with following WoW's rules again?
02:28.21Zealanyways, current plan. reoganise existing category names into proposed structure, then go through them and split off into new cats and create the new structure.
02:28.37Sky2042and hold up. let people come to discuss first.
02:29.18Zealbecause it's not wow information, it's lore. People shouldn't need to have a knowledge of WoW's game terminology or mechanics to browse and find lore.
02:29.37Sky2042give me an example of lore. you still haven't done that.
02:29.53Sky2042where it isn't being used in the WoW sense
02:29.59Sky2042<PROTECTED>
02:30.26Zealfor Spells? Er.. the one in RotH, where they age the orcs through warlock magic.
02:30.29Zealofc it doesn't exist
02:30.34Zealbecause no one has made it
02:30.36Sky2042yes it does
02:30.37Sky2042sigh
02:30.44Sky2042We call it in wow "Life Drain"
02:30.44Zealthere's tons form the RPG though, which no one has ever added
02:30.54Zealno, that's speculation
02:31.09Zealand clearly marked as such in the articles relating to it.
02:32.26Zealall articles in spells will still existing there btw, jsut so you know. it's supposed to be all encompassing, from game-neutral viewpoint.
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02:33.23Zealso you'll see the spells there, and the WoW Spells cat for example, would be a subcat of it, so you can get to the specific ones you want.
02:33.46Zeali've not listed that on the structure atm, because i can only write so much :p
02:34.18kd3whee, I'm glad I fixed the guild article boilerplate
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02:47.14Sky2042_and, zeal, you do realize only single catting is plain stupid?
02:47.30Zealno, it's not. it's very important.
02:47.40Zealshouldn't be double catting unless there's a need to do so
02:47.49Zealit's the reason why lore is a complete mess.
02:48.22Zeal*part of the reason
02:48.37Sky2042_well, i mean, eg, [[Cat:Fel Horde]] being in [[Cat:Horde]] as well as [[Cat:Factions]]
02:49.07Zealit's got nothing to do with [[Cat:Horde]] as a faction. it's a seperate faction.
02:49.52Zealany other form of link than parent<->child would have to be explained in a seperate cat or the article itself, which there is.
02:51.56Sky2042I fear for where this is going...
02:52.05Sky2042Placing items in lore makes no sense
02:52.11Sky2042just... doesn't.
02:52.38Zealit makes sense for items as i explained for spells
02:52.51Zealjust now wow item's themselves in a gameplay context
02:52.53Sky2042but everything in cat:items /is/ a wow item
02:53.04Zealthat's why you'll seem them also seperate and in both cats.
02:53.07Zealfor now
02:53.56Zealas i said, moving the existing structure into place, then moving cat contents to correct cats and creating new cats as needed for the rest of it.
02:54.30Zealotherwise i'll end up doubling up on cats as i'm moving stuff between them.
02:54.48Zealhm.. languages, didn't think of that one. :)
02:55.55Zealbtw, i'm going back to plants and creatures ;)
02:56.44Sky2042Oh good
02:57.25Sky2042anyway, I disagree with the premise that multiple cats per category is a bad idea, on that having multiple cats per category aids in navigating to related items.
02:57.48Zealin related, yes.
02:58.51Sky2042so then, as an example, how would you cat Cat:Blackrock Depths NPCs? We've just redone all such categories into double catting; Cat:BRD and Cat:NPCs by zone.
02:59.04Zealbut when there's distant relations, there's no good reason, and it confuses the user and you loose people in the navigation. keeping some concept of flow ensures they end up where they wanted to be rather than going round in circles for a while.
02:59.21Sky2042granted.
02:59.22Zealhm?
02:59.37Sky2042how would you cat that? 2 parent's? or only 1?
03:00.23Zealsoemthing like wow npcs, and brd. it's a good candidate for it.
03:00.32Sky2042well, good.
03:00.38Sky2042close enough for the purpose.
03:00.42Sky2042:P
03:01.03Sky2042will be back later, though you might be going to bed by then.
03:01.11Sky2042unless you pulled an allnighter...
03:01.30Zealjust want to see it cut down, so we don't have things such as the lroe cat on every cat that's in it's tree.
03:01.43Zeali really shouldn't pull one : /
03:02.02Zealbut i'll probably have to face people's wrath tomorrow if alot of things aren't moved.
03:02.47Sky2042_afkyoull end up facing them anyway, i think
03:02.56Sky2042_afkok, that's it. going now. gf will beat me
03:13.06sacarasceu armory broken for anyone else?
03:15.49Keolahheh heh
03:15.51KeolahWe failed to do RFC :P
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03:16.08Zealbroken how?
03:16.18KeolahWe suck. Hehe.
03:16.21Zeallol
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03:16.46FergatROnhi all
03:16.50pcjhi
03:17.22Zealhey
03:17.38FergatROnany activity in here?  I'm new to IRCs.
03:17.50pcjnot really
03:17.52FergatROncan't get enough of WoW though.
03:17.57KeolahDefine "activity".
03:18.03pcjbut if you have a question we might be able to help you
03:18.24KeolahI was just bemoaning how me and my friends failed to do RFC, is that activity enough? Heh.
03:18.44FergatROnhaha, maybe if I knew what RFC is.
03:18.49KeolahRagefire Chasm?
03:19.27KeolahWell, hey, we only wiped 8 times!
03:19.42FergatROngottcha.  I'm still new to dungeons.  I'm on an RP server and I'm trying to get to 40 for a mount.  Tired of walking.
03:20.12KeolahI'd never really done one before myself ;p
03:20.52FergatROnRP?
03:21.43KeolahDungeons ;p
03:22.24FergatROnah, :o
03:22.37FergatROnThe only one i've done is Deadmines.
03:23.01FergatROnit's actually really fun (oh and stockade) - but very chaotic and the mobs just won't die!
03:23.10FergatROnthey're all ellite, I thinkg.
03:23.42KeolahYes, most of the mobs in dungeons do tend to be elite ;p
03:24.03KeolahAnd it's not really that chaotic if you have half a clue what you're doing.
03:24.26FergatROnI listened to the Elune's Grace podcast and that's all they talk about is their dungeons...
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04:20.01Zealnn all
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05:51.46kd3wiki just break for anyone else?
05:51.51kd3missing some CSS
05:55.01kd3and I <3 being friendly with GMs on the customer service forum
05:55.06kd3just got quest text that doesn't appear to be anywhere else on the next
05:58.51Adyskd3: link?
05:59.00kd3http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=4064461083&postId=41178026078&sid=1#141
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06:20.08Keolah"How did RFC go?" my bf asks me... I laugh.
06:55.34krag0th|Mac"We wiped at the outdoor trash" would have been a good reply :P
07:14.42KeolahHey, we only wiped 8 times before giving up!
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08:21.46Gourrahttp://www.wowwiki.com/Blackrock_Depths#Bosses possible template overload?
08:23.02kd3way, way too much. the bosses should have their own loot page, and perhaps there should be a /separate/ page much like [[Blackwing Lair loot]]
08:23.08kd3using a straight list, no template calls
08:23.38kd3but whee for breaking mw with too many template calls on a page
08:23.57Niatg'morning everyone.
08:24.15kd3s/no template calls/no complex (read: {{item}}/{{tooltip}}) calls/
08:24.22kd3ohayo
08:24.29Gourragod morgon
08:25.46Gourraunder "Loot" make it "See [[Blackrock Depths loot]]?
08:25.50kd3the {{brd}} nav template needs to die a horrible death too
08:25.53kd3ya
08:26.15Gourraok
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08:28.49Gourra*grumble* I made the loot page in "Loot" instead of "loot"
08:29.09kd3no worries
08:30.01Gourrahttp://www.wowwiki.com/Blackrock_Depths_loot great
08:30.06Gourratemplate overload
08:30.11Gourraskip {{lootbox}}?
08:30.27kd3ya. take a look at a raid loot page
08:30.54kd3http://www.wowwiki.com/Blackwing_Lair_loot
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08:32.24Gourraor http://www.wowwiki.com/Black_Temple_Loot
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08:43.40renthhey
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09:44.44*** topic/#wowwiki by kd3 -> Chan rules: http://tinyurl.com/36u82j - UI questions: #wowi-lounge - We are an official fan site, obey the ToU! || We are an Alexa top 1000 website! || We hit 3 million pageviews per day!
09:46.18Fisker-also all that CP kd3
09:46.34kd3hm?
09:46.56Fisker-oh wait
09:47.04Fisker-i obvious trolled the wrong channel
09:47.30Fisker-Thought it was #wowi-lounge
09:54.48osmodiarper day over what timeframe?
09:55.25kd3you'll have to ask kirkburn when he gets back on. it's been a few weeks now iirc
09:55.28Fisker-isn't a day 24 hours?
09:55.49osmodiarbut per day implies that it's an average over multiple days
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11:48.39tankagetting really low fps with intel graphics.. can anyone help pliz?
11:49.09tankarunning ubuntu gutsy
12:18.48Gourraoh great, there's a conflict between the item names of boots (and possibly more) of the pvp sets.. same name, different levels
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13:30.19Gourramore netsplits?
13:31.28osmodiar[13:45:48] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all! Just to let you know that there is scheduled maintenance taking place tomorrow; Monday 21st between 1200 and 1400UTC -- affected servers will be zelazny and niven and we encourage you to server hop prior to the downtime! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
13:33.51GourraTime to archive the village pump?
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14:28.31WindheimerHye!
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14:33.52TigerScott-ArathHey
14:34.43pcjhi
14:34.49WindheimerAny news from the front?
14:35.00TigerScott-ArathWitch server do u play on?
14:35.53WindheimerI? Well, Earthern Ring actually.
14:36.10TigerScott-ArathOkay i play on Arathor :D
14:36.14TigerScott-ArathLVL 70?
14:36.28WindheimerYes, I am.
14:36.43TigerScott-ArathOk, im lvl 48
14:36.50TigerScott-Arathmy first Char...
14:37.13WindheimerI see ;)
14:37.31TigerScott-Arathhihi
14:37.37WindheimerAnyway, how is Kirkburn?
14:37.57TigerScott-ArathKirkburn?
14:38.26WindheimerThe lead admin?
14:39.06TigerScott-ArathIm, from norway so i cant so much English
14:39.50WindheimerReally? Have you ever visited the Norwegian Wowwiki?
14:41.50TigerScott-Arathyes, but its no ppl there..
14:42.45WindheimerThere are not? Well, not in the IRC channel at this exact moment, no.
14:43.12WindheimerHowever, I can assure you that there are people who work hard to improve it every day.
14:44.20TigerScott-Arathhehe :D
14:45.23WindheimerAnyway, do you mind if I ask about your age?
14:49.25TigerScott-Arathyes!
14:52.16WindheimerThen I shall not.
14:53.35TigerScott-ArathIm 14
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15:07.14Zealhm.. me likely {{Category TOC}}
15:07.34Zealalternatively.. the one which doesn't have the space and really exists >_>;
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15:25.58Zealmmm.. the wow tcg playmats pwn.
15:28.18Zealstill yet to find the perfect gaming surface though. the ideazon fragmats are good rubber mats, but they don't compare to harder surface ones. my s&s steelpad has an excellent surface, but it's too light and it's underside is simply covered with random sprays of a glue gun so it shifts around all over the place.
15:29.11Zealand icemats are a pretty nice medium, but they're mroe expensive, high risk of breaking, and make your hand cold most of the time :p
15:30.27Zealqpads, as with all cloth pads, suck. they're surface is as good as a rubber pad, and they grip well to your desk, but they warp and bend all over the place.
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16:07.15kbrosnanwhat do i need to do to get my account activated? I resent an activation email and still nothing
16:08.01osmodiari think the template for BGs is wrong... under 70s can do EotS now...
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16:13.45Gourraslowwiki
16:16.03Gourravery slowwiki
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16:20.26Zealkbrosnan, for wowwiki? possible wikia's mail server is playing up again. how long ago did you send it?
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16:21.41kbrosnanZeal: 10 - 15 min ago
16:22.05kbrosnanmost of these email verification systems are reasonbly fast
16:22.49Zealwait a few hours. if it's not working by then, ask someone in #wikia. it's possible that it's your mail server too, and you may be required to use a different email address. : /
16:24.05kbrosnanused my isp's email, doubt they blacklisted all of cox
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16:27.47Zealwouldn't need to be blacklisted, just a bug.
16:28.25Zealbut a blacklist is also possible. my mail server has incorrectly been on one once, hotmail's been on many and put many people on theirs before.
16:30.58Gourrais wowwiki being DDoS'd again? :/
16:31.05Gourraor just slow like usual
16:31.59osmodiaralmost 35 requests/second could make it a little slow...
16:32.47Gourra..35?
16:33.27Gourraoh right, 3 million/24/60/60
16:33.28osmodiar3000000 / 86400 = 34.72
16:45.16Zealerm. perfect fine for me
16:45.26Gourrayeah for the past 5 minutes or so
16:45.42Zealand when i mean fine, i mean it's showing no sign of stress at all. and i'm running about 10 edit windows at a time
16:45.57Zeal*20
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16:56.15Dotted!JOBQUEUE
16:56.16[NewsBot]The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 3 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 3secs.
17:02.03Zeali wish there was more standard templates for cating..
17:29.39Gourra[[FLT]] always puts a smile on my face
17:29.39[NewsBot]Gourra meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/FLT
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17:33.21kd3gah. I'm going to be turning that into a morning ritual at this rate...
17:33.23Zealkd3, always there ready with the ban hammer :p
17:33.29Zeallol
17:33.30kd3log on and ban someone for DNP on the warcraft pump
17:34.46winkillercoming home from work - 8h of bugfixing, first thing to do is bugfix my irc bot
17:34.47winkillerwhat a life
17:34.56Zeali gotta think of how i want to mount these playmats on my wall. don't wan't to dmg them with nails and such, tape and blue tack won't work. can only think of framing them, but that's excessive :/
17:35.07Zeallol winkiller
17:36.47Zealgave up on the idea renaming guilds cat, and seeing as we have no wc3 ones, meh.
17:36.56Zealimpossible to do except via bot :/
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17:53.19GourraI hate {{BRD}}
17:53.34Gourra{{Blackrock Depths}}
17:53.34[NewsBot]Gourra meant: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Blackrock_Depths
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17:57.56Gourraby the way, if anyone want to leech it: {{:User:Gourra/Links}}
17:58.33Zeal!jobqueue
17:58.36[NewsBot]The www.wowwiki.com job queue length is currently 1453 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 24mins 13secs.
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18:32.25pcjyay http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:CSS_Darktable
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18:38.32Zealabout time :P
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19:00.54kd314:01:08 (Deletion log) (diff; hist) . . Kaydeethree (Talk | contribs | block) (deleted "Template:CSS Darktable": DIE!)
19:04.08Zealhaha
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19:30.34winkillermy "useful links" is 40 lines :P
19:30.40winkillerit's my todo
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19:33.09Zeal"to do, but probably wil never do"? :p
19:33.14Zeal*will
19:34.05Zeal!jobqueue
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20:52.51*** join/#wowwiki Nebu1a (n=JB@85-210-140-33.dsl.pipex.com)
20:52.58Nebu1ahey guys im currently on skinning/leatherwork
20:53.12Nebu1abut finding that its hard to coop back money, is it worth sticking with? (lvl 23 rogue)
20:55.23*** join/#wowwiki Remiehdniw (n=d5a760c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/x-265a6b69669c8e93)
20:55.48RemiehdniwAyeh!
20:56.34Nebu1a?
20:57.40RemiehdniwHeya!
20:57.48Nebu1alo,
20:58.03RemiehdniwHow do you do, alubeN?
20:59.07Nebu1aAnyone any comments on my leatherworking q ^ ?
20:59.33RemiehdniwYour "q^"?
21:00.39Nebu1aq = question
21:02.10winkillerNebu1a: mining/lw -
21:02.14RemiehdniwOh, I see.
21:02.35winkillerget to 70 and then maybe take it up again, but I would just get s1 glad stuff
21:02.37RemiehdniwI don't know what you asked about, but I would have chosen leatherworking
21:02.50RemiehdniwMining takes much more time.
21:02.55winkillerlw sucks nowadays, hardly anythin useful
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21:04.11RemiehdniwWhy, Winkiller?
21:04.30Nebu1ai keep reading leatherwork is useless,
21:04.32Nebu1afor making
21:04.37winkillerit is
21:04.44winkillerI had 370 for ages
21:04.46winkillerthen 375
21:04.47Nebu1ais it good for making things for your own char ?
21:04.53winkillerI have 0 epic patterns
21:04.57Nebu1aor just generally awful ?
21:05.10Nebu1aso basically its only when you get epic patterns its worthwhile ?
21:05.17winkillerit's ok for levelling if you are ahead of yer level
21:05.38Nebu1aright gotcha, well i have it to level 125 at the moment,
21:05.41Nebu1aand im level 23,
21:05.54Nebu1abut im wondering whether its worth carrying on,
21:05.56winkillerbut normally you are behind, especially from 200 on
21:05.58RemiehdniwWhat class do you play?
21:06.01Nebu1aRogue,
21:06.08winkillerwell, it's not that bad imho
21:06.34Nebu1aim just worrying its useless for making overall,
21:06.38RemiehdniwAre you planning to make a PvE or a PvP character?
21:06.42winkillerdepends totally on your server
21:06.44Nebu1aPvP char,
21:06.54Nebu1ai guess so, shortage of leatherworkers helps at a guess ?
21:07.11RemiehdniwNo
21:07.29winkillerI see no real moneymaker
21:07.36winkillerunless you looove to grind at 70
21:07.42winkillerand get nethers en masse
21:07.45Nebu1aright gotcha, so is it worthwhile changing ?
21:07.54RemiehdniwYes, I think it is
21:08.03winkillerI'd get mining to make money
21:08.11RemiehdniwYou should change to engineering and mining/skinning.
21:08.21winkillerno, just mining/skinning
21:08.33RemiehdniwHe's planning to make a PvP character
21:08.34winkillerlevelling back to 124 when you are 70 takes a few hours/gold then
21:08.42winkillerand?
21:08.53RemiehdniwEngineering is useful in PvP.
21:08.58winkilleryes, at 70
21:09.00winkilleror for twinks
21:09.11winkillernot for here and there a bg while levelling
21:09.16RemiehdniwI am neither, and I found it quite useful
21:09.39RemiehdniwThough I had ample supplies ;)
21:09.40winkillerI'd never ever level a first char per realm without 2 gathering
21:09.45Nebu1ahow is skinning alone worthwhile ? just selling leather blocks ?
21:09.46winkiller*profs
21:09.54Nebu1awouldnt i be better off with mining plus blacksmithing ?
21:10.10winkillernot at all
21:10.14RemiehdniwNot for money making
21:10.26winkillers1 weaps >>>>>>>>>> BS
21:10.30winkilleresp when low on money
21:10.32Nebu1aso for making money you want to gather natual resources, thats it ?
21:10.33Remiehdniw~seen Kirkburn
21:10.35infobotkirkburn <i=Kirkburn@c-67-167-101-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowwiki, 2d 41m 32s ago, saying: ':)'.
21:10.40winkilleryes Nebu1a
21:10.55Nebu1aliterally grab and sell in AH ?
21:11.04Nebu1ain blocks of x20 ?
21:11.16RemiehdniwRight
21:11.18Nebu1athen surely i can just buy / earn drops for everything else ?
21:11.27winkilleryes
21:11.39winkillermy last rogue I did LW/MIning
21:11.50winkillerI bought mount at 40 and have 125g left
21:12.01winkillerand I always bought greens when needed
21:12.06Nebu1aLW without skinning ?
21:12.11Nebu1ajust bought mats from AH ?
21:12.15winkillererr, I meant skinning
21:12.19winkillermining/skinning
21:12.22winkillersorry
21:12.25Nebu1anp,
21:12.30Nebu1ai have to admit im tempted,
21:12.38Nebu1awhat are the pro's of leatherworking ?
21:12.40RemiehdniwFor Glory, Gold and God and Wowwiki! What do you think about this slogan?
21:12.56winkillerit sucks
21:12.57winkiller:P
21:13.06Nebu1ashouldnt have two "ands" gramatically,
21:13.13winkillerNebu1a: it's handy. and I got a nice BoP LW pattern at 375
21:13.59Nebu1aso basically leatherworking is good if the drops work out for you,
21:13.59Nebu1aif you dont get pattern drops its a waste of time ?
21:13.59RemiehdniwNebula: I know, but it looks better than just GGG and Wowwiki
21:13.59winkillernot totally worth iz. but i already ghad 300 LW at 60 pre-tbc
21:14.20Nebu1aahh i cant decide what to do,
21:14.32Nebu1ai bought some leather being lazy so i need to re-coup about 1.7G in general
21:14.47RemiehdniwFor Glory, Gold and God and the Wowwiki! It rhymes ^^
21:14.50Nebu1ajust made that back though got a "dark leather tunic" drop which i sold a couple for about 80G
21:15.21Nebu1ais Skin/Mining the biggest money maker then overall ?
21:15.22winkillerNebu1a: 1 stack of 20 copper bar is normally 2g
21:16.10Nebu1aahh im stuck in two minds now,
21:16.30Nebu1ai can see how it'd work out well, just hoarding mats,
21:16.45Nebu1adoes it become annoying because you have to constantly be grinding to use your professions ?
21:16.56Nebu1aat least my skinning provides my lwork upgrades ?
21:16.57RemiehdniwQuestion! What is a "Winnie"?
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21:21.17Nebu1aAnyone else an opinion on profs for making ?
21:21.29winkillerherb/alch is also easy
21:22.47RemiehdniwAlchemy isn't that great any more
21:23.29Nebu1ayeah just trying to read around,
21:23.43Nebu1ai think Skin / Mining could be the combo
21:24.01winkilleralch is piss easy to get to 75
21:24.09winkillerand with a bit of farming it's decent monexy
21:24.14winkillerfor not much work
21:24.22winkiller*to 375
21:24.36Nebu1awouldnt i need herbalism with alch though ?
21:24.41Nebu1ato get the herbs in the first place ?
21:26.01Nebu1awin ?
21:27.52twsXNo, "win" would be if anyone of you can tell me the name of those scriptable unit frames.
21:28.17winkiller"those"
21:28.21winkillerdefine scriptable
21:28.32winkillerpitbull may be named scriptable
21:29.00twsXI never really checked them out, b ut you kinda have to write a script with positioning and color definitions, etc. to actually use them.
21:29.42twsXSome guy recommended it to me and it looked kinda interesting, but i forgot the name. :/
21:30.00twsXPretty much lets you define what your unit frames look like all the way to the last detail
21:30.30twsXSort of like DAB used to do, but with a scripted config, not with a GUI.
21:33.34Remiehdniw...
21:36.44twsXoooooh, noo, the dots :)
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22:14.06RelentlessAnyone around to help me with something?
22:15.10pcj~data
22:15.10infobotDon't Ask To Ask. Just ASK
22:15.16RelentlessI can't seem to receive a confirmation email.
22:15.35RelentlessIt is not being blocked by any spam prevention.
22:15.38pcjtry a different e-mail address?
22:16.24RelentlessI've tried 2 different ones.  Maybe 3rds a charm?
22:16.41pcjwhat e-mail domain is it
22:17.21RelentlessMy own.
22:17.24Relentlessbellante.org
22:17.31Zealsomeone elses was having trouble earlier too
22:17.45Zealsounds like wikia's mail server broken again.
22:18.08RelentlessWell.  It just worked using my work email.
22:18.56RelentlessMakes me wonder if I am not receiving other email at me personal address.  meh.
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23:01.49pcjwhy isn't http://www.wowwiki.com/ZZold_Arcane_Dust in wowhead
23:07.20Zealprunes crappy items?
23:23.02pcjwow, that doesn't sound like a name for a woman http://www.wowwiki.com/Dwane_Wertle
23:25.05Polarinapcj: Because The Armoury is better: http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=17019
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23:25.33pcj*Armory
23:26.15Polarinapcj: I'm not American!
23:26.23pcjHah, but that's the name of the site
23:26.34Zealshe's an post-op transexual ;)
23:26.51PolarinaZeal: British, not an post-op transexual!
23:27.06Zealhuh?
23:27.47Zeali was refering to Dwane Wertle :p
23:28.13pcjlol
23:28.14PolarinaZeal: My mistake. :)
23:28.16Relentlessheh
23:28.18pcjso you're pre-op then polarina?
23:28.59Polarinapcj: Ð
23:29.03Polarinas/Ð/?/
23:30.05pcjthe question is clear, your avoidance of answering indicates some truth to it
23:31.15PolarinaWhatever that means.
23:31.37pcjlol
23:31.40Zealmeans pcj wants you to have his babies
23:31.46pcjno
23:32.08RelentlessI think there is a language barrier.  UK English and US English.
23:32.37Polarina"What is an intersection?"
23:33.07RelentlessMotorway?
23:33.15RelentlessIt's a freeway!
23:33.18Relentless:)
23:33.28PolarinaRelentless: We call it a crossroad.
23:34.30RelentlessI had a gps device that I set to UK english voice, as I like the accent.  But it always clled the freeway a motorway and many other things like that.
23:34.49RelentlessI got lost often.
23:34.51PolarinaGood night. :)
23:34.57Relentlessnight
23:35.04Zeallol
23:35.05Zealnn
23:38.28Zealbbl
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