IRC log for #wowwiki on 20071224

00:00.20Bagginswwand 18 or 24 being when he joins orgrim and becomes Warchief upon his death.
00:00.43pcjhe's 16 in the CoT instance?
00:01.03BagginswwNo that's 16 years after dark portal
00:01.07Zealso contradicts itself, as the new horde, which happens after LotC takes place 10 years after.
00:01.16Zealacorrding to that is.
00:01.39Bagginswwas for his age, I'd have to go check for references to about the time he was when his parents were killed
00:01.43Bagginswwa couple of timelines mention that
00:01.50Bagginswwbut not all of them
00:02.28pcjIs Thrall past puberty?  Find out next time on Stump the Lore Admin!
00:02.31Zealwell pretty much everything from 10-20 would need to be moved if LotC gets moved. as they all happen after it and before RoC
00:03.11Zealyeah, they've all been given mroe fixed dates which predate where LotC would want to go.
00:03.38BagginswwLoC had the most break down of his life date by date
00:04.28Zealbut comparitively outdated
00:04.36BagginswwI think it said his parents died 2 years after the portal was opened
00:04.47Bagginswwwell zeal LoC one is a mixture
00:05.02Zeallooking mainly at TBC/ vs. everything else for all in the range 10-20 is the worst
00:05.26BagginswwLoC is essentially like WoW.coms for most dates post portal
00:05.46Bagginswwwhere as TBC one is more in line with the WoWRPG/Player's Guides
00:06.17Bagginswwthat's why LoC has the 18 after day like
00:06.28Bagginswwwhere as other timelines have the 23/24ish date
00:06.33Bagginswwfor end of LotC
00:06.41Bagginswwwe can discuss this when I get back
00:07.03Zealwell it it's currently a span of 10 years
00:07.13Zealbut that could be extended as long as nothing conflicts
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00:07.36Zealthe fact its not extended, makes me thing we found such a conflict
00:17.19Zealhm.. ok, based LoC's seperation of events in LotC, and the statement in the New Horde, thrall was 18 @ 14 AP
00:17.46Zealwhich means LotC would takes place before the portal was even opened.
00:17.49Zealgg Blizz
00:36.09Adys|xmasNEEDS to be seen
00:36.23sacarascit's not living, it has no needs
00:39.18ZealI jsut need to restablish Thralls time of birth, and i think i settle the retcons and still keep him at a believable age without screwing up the timing of other events.
00:39.26Zeal*i can settle
00:49.27Zealnvm, not possible any which way for thrall to have been 18 when he was fighting.
00:49.46Zealall timelines make it impossible to be.
00:50.01Zealso i think i'll jsut ignore that stupidty.
00:51.12[NewsBot]WoW Insider: WoW Insider Weekly -
01:05.23*** join/#wowwiki Yeppy (
01:05.35Yeppymerry christmas peeps
01:05.49foxlitearly :)
01:06.45sacarascand you missed Eid in the past week
01:06.52sacarascDiwali a few weeks ago
01:07.01Yeppyaye but unlikely i on christmas day
01:07.24Bagginswwzeal amusingly there are two "new horde"s
01:07.32MistleTempe-gfMerry Christmas Yeppy
01:07.37Yeppyopened my 5ltre keb barrel too early, needs to be drunk in 24hrs
01:07.49Yeppyits great on the desk :D
01:07.52MistleTempe-gfAnd a Merry Christmas to your sheep as well.
01:08.07Yeppyoooh they'll be getting a special present from me ;)
01:08.30Yeppyi migfht actualy leave them alone
01:08.32MistleTempe-gfDarnit, kirky would have appreciated that joke. :(
01:09.42YeppyLife Aquatic with Steve Zissou is an awesome film
01:09.53MistleTempe-gfYes, yes it is :)
01:09.57Yeppy bill murrey all the way
01:10.02Yeppyonly saw it yesterday
01:10.12Yeppylistening to soundtrack, its cheesy but good
01:10.14MistleTempe-gfHave you seen the other movies by that director?
01:10.22ZealBaggins, huh?
01:10.26MistleTempe-gfDefinitely some good stuff.
01:10.35Yeppyno, but i interested.. loved the editing.. loved the style
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01:13.13Zealwhats the second one?
01:13.24Zealand i jsut replied to the talk and updated my version of the timeline
01:13.38Zealit's mostly based on LoC/WoWRPG
01:14.36Bagginsww[[new horde]]
01:14.37[NewsBot]Bagginsww meant:
01:15.28Bagginswwbtw The New Horde has its own built in timeline?
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01:15.38Zealwell that disambig is wrong. the first two are factions not historical points.
01:15.45BagginswwI'll have to read it and make another page :p
01:16.03Bagginswwzeal the problem is they aren't factions
01:16.12Zealno, it just states he found thrall as an infant 18 years before thrall was fighting for him.
01:16.21Zealwhich is impossible.
01:16.22Bagginswwread [[history of the horde]]
01:16.30Bagginsww[[History of the Horde
01:16.37Bagginsww[[History of the Horde]]
01:16.37[NewsBot]Bagginsww meant:
01:17.01Bagginswwbasically new and old horde discuss differences in ideals in the history of the same horde
01:17.12Bagginswwbut its always been the 'same faction'
01:17.32Zealdidn't say they were different factions, just that they are factions
01:17.47Bagginswwa single faction is not a "factions"
01:17.54Zealwell the third is a name of a book recording historical events, and the 4th is a quest.
01:18.12Zealno, but when they are listed seperate they are factions
01:18.23Zealwhy would i use singular for two entities?
01:18.43Bagginswwmy point is according to History of the HOrde its all the same faction
01:18.49Bagginswwthere aren't "factions"
01:18.52curseold horde ftw, "new age yuppie" thrall sucks
01:18.55Bagginswwits always been the Horde
01:19.50Zealbaggins, completely irrelevent, dunno why you're arguing over context of a plural. all i'm saying is the disambig says they historical points, which they're not.
01:20.15BagginswwHorde and "new Horde" are used interchangeably as is Horde and the one reference to Old horde in LoTC
01:20.24[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 101272 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1day 4hrs 7mins 52secs.
01:20.28Bagginswwthrall describes the history of the horde.
01:20.31Bagginswwits not a faction term
01:20.32Zealdouble ...
01:20.50Zeal<3 fandy
01:21.18Bagginswwinfact it is a 'historical" point in history. HPG discusses the change in horde politics historically
01:21.23ZealBaggins, not gunna even bother to continue, clearly not even reading the the same book, let alone same page :p
01:22.02Zealeither way, nothing to do with the timeline discussion really.
01:23.16Bagginswwanycase, another timelnie that got hit badly was age of Grom, and ages given for characters in Metzen's novel ;p
01:23.27Zealno suprise
01:23.47BagginswwI think Metzen's novel was based on the old rts timeline
01:24.05Bagginswwonly way Taelen's age and his son's fit
01:24.26Zeali wouldn't be surpised if i bothered to look, i'd find jaina and kael had something going on when they were toddlers. lol
01:25.29BagginswwYa I warned you how bad it was when we first met heh heh
01:25.46Bagginswwthus why I hate bringing up timeline at all :p
01:25.56Zealit's a challange
01:26.08Bagginswwat least people now can compare how bad it is heh
01:27.44ZealBack to charmed! Gotta restart the ep, forgot wtf happened after leaving it paused so long. :p
01:29.47pcjcharmed? i'm sure
01:31.53Bagginswwso zeal, if we look at the wrpg and use the 18 age for thrall, he would have been kidnapped 4 years after the portal opened
01:32.05Bagginswwthat's in the middle of the first war
01:32.28Zealindeed, which i had to doubel check LotC to make sure it was definitely not possible :p
01:32.52Bagginswwand if you use the 18 year after dates, he would have been kidnapped the year the portal was opened LOL
01:34.09Zealand some other date put it even before the portal opened. fun fun
01:34.55Bagginswwwell the math in LoC fits the 18 age thrall exactly
01:35.07Bagginswwit has the end at LoTC at 20 after
01:35.19Bagginswwand has his kidnapping at 2 years after the portal
01:35.31Bagginswwbut that's still during the first war
01:35.55Bagginswwthe timeline is pretty specific that the event occured during the first war :p
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01:36.16Zealyes he was kidnapped post second war, which if you add on 18, it happens after RoC ;)
01:36.46Bagginswwwell LoC had him kidnapped during the first war specifically, but other sources imply it was during the second war
01:37.21BagginswwI could probalby find some more dates outside the timeline in Brann's writings if I went to check btw
01:37.28Bagginswwwe should see how those screw things up further ;)
01:37.29Zealhm.. i didn't see that
01:37.53Bagginswwya zeal in LoC timeline it has his kidnapping occuring before medivh's death
01:38.05Zealhow the hell? from the description in LotC, chapter one, it's post-second war, not post-first.
01:38.19Bagginswwwho knows... LOL
01:38.21Zealatleast thats what i got.
01:38.26BagginswwI think someone was just tyring ot fit int eh 18 year date
01:38.34Bagginswwthat was specifically stated in the The New Horde
01:38.45BagginswwThe New Horde has been online pre-loc release
01:38.54Bagginswwa version of it was in the War 3 manual?
01:39.12Zealperhaps, none of thme were in my wc3 manual, never did get that.
01:39.26Bagginswwzeal but ya I'll see if I can find some more references to his kidnapping/age/date outside of the timelines
01:39.42Bagginswwbrann often gave other dates that he didnt' put specifically on the timelines
01:39.53Bagginswwand they tended to cause even more problems LOL
01:40.25Bagginswwwell zeal its confusing some of the History of Wardcraft is directly from the manual, but some of its additions
01:40.56Zeali just meant that i discovered for seemingly no reason, certain copies of wc3 had no history section
01:41.57Bagginswwbut ya I really need to add all other references to time in the books for completeness sakes
01:42.13Bagginswwsome of brann's guestimates are wildly funny
01:42.34Zeal<3 brann
01:42.53Zeali never saw his journal thingy in the early days of wow btw
01:43.43BagginswwI don't think I did either
01:43.46Zealis that even replicated anywhere on ww, because the archive versions of it don't make for easy viewing considering it's scripted and it bugged to hell.
01:44.09BagginswwI put it on [[Journal of Brann]]
01:44.12Zealcould probably get some of it.
01:44.26Bagginswwits a sublink under his main page
01:45.04Zealcoolies, ty.
01:45.12Zealknew i was missing that
01:46.59BagginswwWe should create spinoff pages to the timelines, that discuss individual character timelines and how screwd they are ;)
01:47.14BagginswwI mean for characters that have been given specific dating references
01:47.30Bagginswwlike ages, timeline notes, etc
01:48.55Zealwould be funky, sorta speculative analysis articles i envisioned existing under a better specualtion policy.
01:49.05Zeal*the sort of
01:50.15Bagginswwwell we have a partial one for grom on his page
01:50.24Bagginsww[[Grom Hellscream]]
01:50.24[NewsBot]Bagginsww meant:
01:50.30Bagginswwtowards the bottom
01:50.43Bagginswwbut it might be nice to make it its own timeline page
01:50.49Bagginswwand get some direct quotes
01:51.05Bagginswwshowing the flaws that have arisen thanks to the various timelines
01:55.02Sky2042_afkfirst block. woohoo!
01:55.33Sky2042_afkand now I'm going away again. last minute xmas + dinner.
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02:03.32flutterboardfirst time caller long time listener
02:03.41Zeallol, hey
02:04.06flutterboardwhts happening
02:04.56Zealthe world is round, break news apparently.
02:05.51flutterboardyou know i had always had a hunch about that
02:08.26flutterboardah well, better go and find some murlocs for tea
02:11.00MistleTempe-gfAwwww... I think Fandy cried. :(
02:11.14MistleTempe-gf[[User talk:Fandyllic]]
02:11.15[NewsBot]MistleTempe-gf meant:
02:12.53MistleTempe-gfand christmast dinner already Sky2042_afk?
02:13.59MistleTempe-gfI should have added "If they don't melt" to the servers comment... that would ahve been funnier.
02:19.54MistleTempe-gfI still think Fandy needs to join IRC.  Sooooooo much fun!
02:20.34Zeali foresee abusing him :p
02:25.21pcjdutempete would make a better "good cop" in a "good cop/bad cop" scenario
02:25.48pcjof course, you could combined the dominatrix idea with the cop idea and it would be really kinky
02:29.09Zealshe'd make a better bad cop playing good cop. I'm sure there are nasty intents behind her otherwise nice demeanor :p
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02:39.39Bagginswwzeal brann's and others guestimates
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02:42.05BagginswwI should note, that one of those dates comes from Governor of Duskwood, another from a goblin who experienced Day of the Dragon, and another is Tiron fordring himself
02:42.45Bagginsww300 date appears to originates from another dwarven historian other than Brann, but he uses the date himself.
02:43.55Bagginswwthere are more dates in the second half of the book but I'll add them later
02:44.03Zealcool, ty
02:45.19MistleTempe-gfdamnit, I didn't mean to miss that talking about me zeal/pcj
02:45.26MistleTempe-gfI was finishing my cupcakes
02:45.37MistleTempe-gfnomnomnom yellow cake w/ honey!
02:45.50Zealas long as they were good ones, i can fogive you :P
02:46.02MistleTempe-gfI had a tremendous urge for sweets, so I made cupcakes :P
02:46.12MistleTempe-gfBut didn't have enough butter and milk for chocolate frosting :(
02:47.05MistleTempe-gfBut I like the honey topping!
02:47.32MistleTempe-gfAnd I think Zeal has it better, unfortunately, pcj.
02:48.20MistleTempe-gfKirk calls me a dominatrix for a reason :P
02:48.28MistleTempe-gfI'm just being coy with Fandy :P
02:48.54Zealso that makes kirk the sub?
02:49.10MistleTempe-gfMost of the time :P
02:49.23MistleTempe-gfBut, mostly, I'm a switch. :P
02:49.23Zealdammit, where's Kalroth when you need him.
02:49.37MistleTempe-gfSo, I'm training Kirk :P
02:49.37Zealah, i know a switch too.
02:50.13MistleTempe-gfKirk is just so darned nice, though.  It's hard work.
02:50.55Zealnone of it's for me anyways, equal pegging with both giving and taking whenever :P
02:52.05MistleTempe-gfI think pcj is lost :P
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02:53.41MistleTempe-gfwell, I think it's past my bed time.
02:53.45BagginswwZeal if there are any non date references to say Thrall, but ties it to an event, such as before second or after second war I'll let you know
02:54.07Zealyeah, i'll be keeping an eye out too, ty.
02:55.16MistleTempe-gfMebbe tomorrow I'll play some of my birthday/christmas presents from Kirkburn... Yay computer games!
02:55.29Zealnn MistleTempe-gf. It seems to me female switches typicall attract sub men and end up doms anyways :p the training doesn't often manage to turn them ;)
02:56.33MistleTempe-gfYou know far too much about this for em to continue discussing it with you :P
02:56.59MistleTempe-gfAnyway, I'm talking mostly personality-wise ;)
02:57.09MistleTempe-gfNor am I entirely serious. :P
02:57.22Zealhaha. i know, me too, but the personality carries over most of the time :p
02:58.09[NewsBot]GamePolitics: GamePolitics Holiday Podcast Now Available! -
03:10.42Zeali'm gunna get myself to bed too. nn all
03:13.49cursei cant find the w3 campaign of thrall scape from durnholde
03:14.02cursesomeone have they?
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04:11.45Sky2042zZzTempete-gf: ow :(
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06:01.11[NewsBot]MMO Champion: 2.3.2 and 2.4 Patch information, Comics -
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06:28.59bestinhaIs there any1 very familiar with Macros that can give me a hand?
06:29.15Sky2042_bestinha: try #wowi-lounge
06:29.28bestinhaok thank you
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06:39.47Sky2042_Bagginsww: you on?
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07:04.05[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: BlizzCast Episode 1 on First Week of January -
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07:28.34Sky2042_finally finished cleaning up after baggins's deletes
07:36.15Sky2042_damn job queue
07:37.29Sky2042_uh oh
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07:55.46Bagginswwwhat's up sky?
07:57.00Sky2042_nothin. i think i hit a page where you needed poking for, but i don't remember which.
07:57.12Sky2042_in the meantime, please fix the articles before deleting the redirects :(
07:57.49Bagginswwhmm I don't delete many redirects, though I need to be careful that there aren't alot of bad redirects :p
07:58.45Sky2042_yeah.. you deleted a slew of articles related to the missions:
07:58.56BagginswwI moved them
07:59.13Sky2042_and deleted them yesterday
07:59.59Sky2042_anyway, all fixed now.
08:00.12Sky2042_there are a couple more out there i just put on watch, in case you do that again. :P
08:01.12Bagginswwwell hopefully we don't get people making up names again ;p
08:01.36Bagginswwthey are so hard to track
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08:50.15Sky2042_hmm. wonder how much I've deleted in the past 19 hours
08:51.20Sky2042_give or take
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09:14.15Sky2042_the KKK was founded on xmas eve
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13:07.09[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Breakfast Topic: Help a newbie! -
13:10.04|Pixel|  <--  taurens can ride talbuks ? :P
13:13.41MistleTempe-gfomfsm, the poor talbuks :(
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13:32.54MistleTempe-gfkd3, we've hijacked ==cost== on Fandy's page...
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13:48.30MistleTempe-gfpcj, you there?
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14:01.24winkilleryes they can
14:03.02MistleTempe-gfIT'S KIRKBURN!
14:03.15[NewsBot]WoW Insider: The Twelve Days of Winter Veil: Day ten -
14:03.27Fisker-SURPRISE KISS
14:03.27KirkburnHello MistleTempe-gf :P
14:03.43MistleTempe-gf<insert dog smiley> Kirkburn!
14:03.58Kirkburn<insert kitty smiley> MistleTempe-gf
14:04.13Fisker-<insert frog smiley> Kirkburn & MistleTempe-gf
14:04.47pcjhi MistleTempe-gf
14:04.51MistleTempe-gfhi pcj!
14:05.00KirkburnFisker-, I want toad!
14:05.08Fisker-toad smiley then
14:05.22MistleTempe-gfpcj, I was wondering if you have a specials page link that checks on new users for your welcoming committee stuff?
14:06.36Fisker-lulz awesome
14:06.47Fisker-some couple were trying to sell their 2 month old baby for 30$
14:06.50MistleTempe-gfum, yikes, do you just surf the RC for new people?
14:08.03MistleTempe-gfwe really ought to have a page that queries new users :(
14:08.27pcjIf I see someone making edits in the Main namespace with a red talk page, I check their contribs and welcome them
14:09.53MistleTempe-gfKirkburn... what I told Fandy in ==Problems with skins== on the VP - is that correct?
14:13.47pcjshouldn't it be Kirkburn-bf
14:16.34KirkburnMistleTempe-gf, correct indeed :)
14:17.37Fisker-hey Kirkbrrrr-bf
14:17.54Fisker-i was first
14:18.09MistleTempe-gfno, I got the first kiss :P
14:18.12MistleTempe-gfYou just didn't see it.
14:18.24Kirkbrrrr-bfAlso, she is the mistletoe ...
14:18.26MistleTempe-gfAnd I got the kiss back :P
14:18.48pcj[[Curator downed 14/12/07]] is the best article ever
14:18.49[NewsBot]pcj meant:
14:19.08MistleTempe-gfOkies, I'm gonna bring this up to you folks before I post it on the VP...
14:19.35MistleTempe-gflol wtf...
14:20.54pcjyou might want to be more specific when you post the "wtf" part on the VP
14:21.12Kirkbrrrr-bfBtw, V3 of Quartz is underway
14:21.45MistleTempe-gfYeah, so my VP thing
14:21.50Kirkbrrrr-bfThey're in mockups stage, but the main thing is smaller sidebar, on the left and a design more akin to monobook
14:22.03MistleTempe-gfI was thinking of starting project pages for each class.
14:22.08MistleTempe-gfYAY SMALLER SIDEBAR!
14:23.07MistleTempe-gfI think there should be a group of people, experts if you will, monitoring class articles, and being the go-to peeps for those with class-related questions.
14:24.00MistleTempe-gfSo I want to open up project pages, and try to recruit people to work on each of them.  Does that sound like a good idea?
14:24.24Fisker-what about putting it in their guild stuff or something instead? :P
14:24.41Fisker-the curator downed article
14:24.51pcji just wanted to say i like dutempete's idea
14:25.14Fisker-well i also like your mother
14:25.17Fisker-OH SNAAAP
14:25.27pcjin my pants
14:25.37Fisker-gonna go have some christmas then
14:26.25MistleTempe-gfwait... you like my idea in your pants, or Fisker-'s mom in your pants?
14:27.02foxlitTbh, I don't want another Lorekeepers group
14:27.05MistleTempe-gfAnd what would you say is the minimum editing required before one receives a welcome?
14:27.21MistleTempe-gfah, fuck lorekeepers :P  Those guys are nazis.
14:27.30MistleTempe-gfYeah, Bagginsww, I'm talkin' about you.
14:27.58pcjmore qualitative than quantitative imo
14:28.45MistleTempe-gfSee, cuz I never got a welcome :(
14:28.56MistleTempe-gfNot that I really needed one...
14:29.12MistleTempe-gfI'm the sort that makes my own welcome :P
14:29.24MistleTempe-gfHAI!  I'm here, love me!
14:30.07MistleTempe-gfYou know, that sort of thing.
14:31.02MistleTempe-gfSo, foxlit... you're saying you think those folks would... how do I put this...
14:31.23MistleTempe-gfwell, what *are* you saying you think they would do?
14:32.13foxlitMandated groups of experts are generally bad
14:33.19Kirkbrrrr-bfI don't think that's the exact thrust
14:33.46Kirkbrrrr-bfMore to recruit like-minded inviduals, to give them somewhere to work from and organise themselves
14:34.37foxlitWhat's the benefit, really?
14:35.03MistleTempe-gfconsistency via a dedicated group of editors focused on the specific area
14:35.29MistleTempe-gfand creating a public knowledge of who's who in that area of expertise
14:35.46MistleTempe-gfpcj, check those badly named quests you just marked for SD... Fya's got issues...
14:36.05MistleTempe-gfalso removed a Laurlybot flag from one
14:36.14pcjkirkburn can you delete those
14:36.15Kirkbrrrr-bffoxlit, some classes have made their own wikis since we don't support classes very well
14:36.33MistleTempe-gfhave they now?  I didn't realise that.
14:36.37foxlitI assume if someone wanted to improve an article, nobody is stopping them.
14:36.50Kirkbrrrr-bfpcj, if someone has an issue, I'm not going to pull the rug from under them before their issue is resolved
14:37.00foxlitWhereas having a list of people recognized as experts forcing consistency is likely to do so.
14:37.12pcj...they're violating [[WW:NAME]] and they've been informed
14:37.13Kirkbrrrr-bffoxlit, not saying experts, just interested parties
14:37.28foxlit"of who's who in that area of expertise"
14:37.53Kirkbrrrr-bfWell, okay, maybe I'm rewording what MistleTempe-gf said there :P
14:38.04MistleTempe-gflol well I did say experts, but I don't mean it like we're going to put a plaque on their user page and call them "Professor"
14:38.36Kirkbrrrr-bfThe problem is, someone interested in hunters has no way of talking to other hunters and discussing how to improve hunter pages
14:38.48Kirkbrrrr-bfThe project pages allow such organising and chatter to take place
14:38.56Kirkbrrrr-bfLike MistleTempe-gf's warlock project
14:39.18MistleTempe-gfFrom my perspective, with what I do for the Warlock pages...  I've got a central area where concnerned folk go to agree on what improves certain types of articles
14:39.37Kirkbrrrr-bfThus people go elsewhere and make hunter wiki where they can work together more easily
14:40.00MistleTempe-gfWe know names, and it's like a smaller group of people who have common interests.
14:40.07Kirkbrrrr-bfBtw I would post the Quartz V3 mockups, but I may wait until they're more finalised and sexier
14:40.24foxlitMeh, add an extra talk page
14:40.40foxlitOr even just abuse Talk:Hunter :P
14:41.20MistleTempe-gfPlus, I think it encourages us to narrow our efforts, and therefore have higher quality pages.
14:41.33MistleTempe-gf[[Project talk: Hunter project]] :P
14:41.34[NewsBot]MistleTempe-gf meant:
14:41.43MistleTempe-gfThere's your extra talk page :P
14:42.04foxlitDepartment of Redundancy Department :)
14:42.16Kirkbrrrr-bffoxlit, Talk:Hunter is not for general hunter article discussion
14:42.36Kirkbrrrr-bfIt's for discussion on the Hunter article (singular)
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14:42.43MistleTempe-gfaye, not really for the type of meta-discourse I'm thinking of
14:42.57foxlitHence abuse
14:43.01MistleTempe-gfpcj, what are your thoughts?
14:43.18pcj<pcj> i just wanted to say i like dutempete's idea
14:43.33MistleTempe-gfin my pants? :P
14:43.51pcji like anything in your pants
14:43.52MistleTempe-gfreally, though... why?
14:44.24pcjbecause it makes sense?
14:46.46Kirkbrrrr-bfThere should be a link to the project pages on the main class articles
14:47.23MistleTempe-gfShoot, I knew I forgot to do something with that :P
14:47.31MistleTempe-gfI need to make the banner for it :P
14:47.47Kirkbrrrr-bfSomething like "This article is part of the Warlock project, please visit WoWWiki:Warlock project"
14:48.23Kirkbrrrr-bfWhether it should be an ambox I'm not sure, since those are supposed to be temporary notices
14:49.14pcjwhat about something like the WW:VP banner
14:49.34Kirkbrrrr-bfRather extreme?
14:49.40Kirkbrrrr-bfI was thinking more like
14:49.46MistleTempe-gfthere's an example on the main project page... lemme go look it up
14:50.26MistleTempe-gfyeah, it shows an ambox page
14:50.29MistleTempe-gferr banner
14:50.45[NewsBot]MistleTempe-gf meant:
14:51.02Kirkbrrrr-bfAh, yeah, those are for talk pages
14:51.42MistleTempe-gfportal isn't bad, but those are usually used in sections, and link to other wikis, don't they?
14:53.04Kirkbrrrr-bfThey're near the bottom of pages and just link to the portal page for that topic
14:53.21Kirkbrrrr-bfBut I'm thinking something like that just under the classnav
14:53.40MistleTempe-gfat the bottom of the page?
14:55.07MistleTempe-gfI  think if we do a project for each class, it should definitely become part of the classnav template, though
14:55.56Kirkbrrrr-bfooh, using the classnav would work
14:56.22MistleTempe-gfbut again, not very visible down at the bottom of the page... *and* in small letters
14:56.24Kirkbrrrr-bfIt needs some work though, since it's getting rather, uh ... big
14:56.41MistleTempe-gfOh, you're talking about that huuuuuge thing in the upper right corner?
14:56.46Kirkbrrrr-bfyup :P
14:56.52MistleTempe-gfit needs to be class specific.
14:56.56Kirkbrrrr-bfAnd you're talking about the thing at the bottom ;)
14:57.18MistleTempe-gfyeah :P
14:58.06MistleTempe-gfI think it should be integrated into the class table down at the bottom, or have that brought up to the top, made verticle, and include the extra class pages classnav has, then
14:58.12[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Christmas Video Game Trivia -
14:59.10Kirkbrrrr-bfYeah, that would probably be quite sensible
14:59.37Kirkbrrrr-bfThe main bulk of classnav being restricted to just the class page
14:59.42MistleTempe-gfI think it would be better at the top, too
15:00.07Kirkbrrrr-bfSomething for us to work on in about two weeks? ;)
15:00.31MistleTempe-gfIf it's so essential to link to other class pages, then a nav table at the bottom that only links to the main articles would be good
15:00.36MistleTempe-gfI think so :)
15:00.58Kirkbrrrr-bfOff for a little while, be back later
15:02.13MistleTempe-gfwe need to create a template that has hearts all over it and says "This article was edited by Kirkburn and DuTempete during their 3 weeks of togetherness in Chicago"
15:03.04MistleTempe-gfHow's that for a public display of affection? :P
15:04.00pcjclose enough
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15:07.15[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Around Azeroth: Frostbolt! -
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15:25.46Dottedlololol Fisker- TGG har pryglet igen :D:D:D
15:31.01foxlitOpenID already
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15:47.52Dottedfoxlit they have
16:11.13[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Officers' Quarters: A dangerous gift -
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16:18.14[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Gamer Objects to Proposed Wisconsin Video Game Tax -
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17:01.03Zeallo all
17:01.15MistleTempe-gflo zeal
17:06.10Zealhm.. V3 Quartz going to have the option to switch to a right bar? That's one of the few good things about Quartz, lame to see it go back to left only.
17:07.17[NewsBot]WoW Insider: WoW Moviewatch: Unlimited Escapism vol. 4 -
17:09.53Zeal"25th and 26th will be our Christmas holiday and all E2046 staff will enjoy two days of happiness brought by God and Jesus" <- sickens me considering it's a malaysian company.
17:11.58pcjmalaysians can't celebrate christmas?
17:14.10pcj~seen laurly
17:14.13infobotlaurly <> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowhead, 26d 8h 48m 57s ago, saying: 'arena promoter thats what i was looking for :)'.
17:14.13Zealnot when it's a mostly islamic country, nope imo.
17:14.28Zealatleast not s a national holiday
17:14.33Zeal*as a
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17:18.39Zealhm, that sunwell interview added some nice reasoning behind their decisions.
17:19.46ZealKael in heroic, new model. fun fun
17:21.36Zealwhen did it becoem two unannounced blizz games to come? was 1 last time i checked :s
17:32.10Kirkbrrrr-bfZeal ... nope, it's two
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17:32.46Zealwhen/where was a second announced? only know of the 1 new IP.
17:33.03Kirkbrrrr-bf" two unannounced blizz games"
17:33.16Kirkbrrrr-bfSo, exactly what announcement are you wanting?
17:33.17Zealdammit, why is IE7 not doing foreign text replacement anymore >_< used to work on this site..
17:33.39Zealwhen was it announced there wa a second? simple question
17:33.58Kirkbrrrr-bfIf they're unannounced, I can hardly tell you :P
17:34.42Zealit was 1 new IP, then a second (which was then announced as SC2), so i've no idea where a new second unannounced game has come from.
17:35.06Zealfirst tim i'm seeing it mentioned in BlizzPlanet
17:35.43Zealargh.. english (unicode) fails, wtf : /
17:36.32Kirkbrrrr-bfZeal, I'm not exactly going to tell you :P
17:37.07Kirkbrrrr-bfOne is relatively new, one is not so new
17:37.20Zealand why not? :S
17:37.43Kirkbrrrr-bfSo I guess at one point the 2 IPs would have included SC2, but no longer ...
17:38.28Kirkbrrrr-bfI would have thought it obvous why not :)
17:38.49Zealnope, the original announcement was that they had 1 new IP and 1 new game they have yet to announce. later, SC2 was announced, leaving onyl the 1 new IP left.
17:39.12Zealwhy the hell isn't unicode working >_< bloody ie..
17:40.04Zealworking fine on all pages except the ones i want to read..
17:40.46Kirkbrrrr-bfZeal, companies do ... er ... start new projects?
17:41.04Kirkbrrrr-bfAnd sometimes there are even unannounced unannounced new games ;)
17:43.43Zealwhy are you dancing around this? not in the mood for "games". Blizzplanet has either made mistake, or i missed an announcement of another new game in the works. So i'm simply asking for confirmation as to if there is still two left, and if so when/where was the new one that i missed announced. If you don't want to give a straight answer, then forget it.
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17:47.06sacarascZeal: what are you talking about? (not in the wtf are you on about? kind of way, i really don't know ;p)
17:50.59Zealearlier i nthe year, Blizzard announced they had 1 new game, and 1 new game based on a new intellectual property in the works. The first new game turned out to be StarCraft 2. That leaves just the new IP left. Today i see BlizzPlanet listing that Blizzard still have two new games in the works. AFAIK, that's wrong. So i'm merely asking if anyone can confirm when/where yet another new game was announced as being planned after SC
17:51.24Zeal.. (as i know for sure it wasn't before then).
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17:58.03Kirkbrrrr-bfI'm dancing around it, because I'm not at liberty to say.
17:58.24Kirkbrrrr-bfIt is correct, but I can't link you anything. It's just corect.
17:58.55Kirkbrrrr-bfI'm not trying to annoy you, sorry if I am :)
17:59.07Zealsince when do you get the inside scoop? :P
17:59.26Zealand if BlizzPlanet know, i would have thought it's allowed to be said.
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17:59.33Kirkbrrrr-bfI just watch the way the wind is blowing ...
17:59.41sacarascZeal: he's blowing someone at blizz
17:59.46sacarascand even just admitted it
18:00.52Kirkbrrrr-bfIt's not true, I tell you!
18:01.17MistleTempe-gfsacarasc... where do you get this idea?
18:01.27sacarasc[17:59:27] <@Kirkbrrrr-bf> I just watch the way the wind is blowing ...
18:02.39Kirkbrrrr-bfYes, well, it's not blowing in *that* direction
18:06.19Kirkbrrrr-bfI'm off out ... see you all sometime soon :)
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18:11.14[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Samwise's holiday wallpaper available now -
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18:21.40KeolahI had this horrible dream where I was surrounded by thorium veins but my mining skill wasn't high enough to mine them.
18:22.10MistleTempe-gfomg I HATE that feeling, Keolah :(
18:22.40MistleTempe-gfboth the feeling that you're too low to mine thorium, and the feeling that WoW is taking over one's life. :P
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18:23.21sacarascit only takes a few hours to get your mining skill from 1 to 300...
18:23.37MistleTempe-gfoh geez... bite me, sacarasc.
18:23.53KeolahAnd you're not likely to run into 30 thorium veins in the same cave, either. :P
18:24.07sacarascdid it recently... was a pain running around EPL
18:24.17MistleTempe-gfso true, Keolah :P
18:25.00Zealis it me or have i already seen that wallpaper released this year? :s definitely remember that orc girl.
18:25.09KeolahIn bed?
18:25.51sacarascZeal: someone else linked it here yesterday
18:35.14[NewsBot]WoW Insider: The Art of War(craft): Outdoor PvP Part I - War in the Old World -
18:50.58Fisker-omg n00bs
18:51.06Fisker-i guess this is the punishment for using the same password everywhere
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19:20.22pcjthey're actually buffing mining
19:21.45Fisker-gonna buff your mother
19:26.24KeolahWhat are they doing to it?
19:28.08Fisker-making it easier to transition between the different minerals
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19:43.13[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 4626 doing ~1.2 job/s, done in approx. 1hr 4mins 15secs.
19:43.31kd3I'll be damned... the queue's nearly caught up
19:43.50Zealstupid pc -_-
19:43.58pcjquickly, edit loot 9 times
19:45.18bleeterlol mechanical greench
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19:50.43Bagginswwanother lorekeeprs group? huh?
19:52.56pcjare you talking about what foxlit said
19:55.05Sky2042pcj: no, just edit tooltip.
19:56.12BagginswwI missed end of  someting foxlit said ya
19:56.16Bagginswwand something about lore nazis
19:56.28Bagginswwfrum dutempete
19:57.36pcj<MistleTempe-gf> I was thinking of starting project pages for each class.
19:57.40pcj<MistleTempe-gf> I think there should be a group of people, experts if you will, monitoring class articles, and being the go-to peeps for those with class-related questions.
19:57.42pcj<MistleTempe-gf> So I want to open up project pages, and try to recruit people to work on each of them.  Does that sound like a good idea?
19:57.46pcj<foxlit> Tbh, I don't want another Lorekeepers group
19:57.46pcj<MistleTempe-gf> And what would you say is the minimum editing required before one receives a welcome?
19:57.48pcj<MistleTempe-gf> ah, fuck lorekeepers :P  Those guys are nazis.
19:57.48pcj<MistleTempe-gf> Yeah, Bagginsww, I'm talkin' about you.
19:58.04Sky2042MistleTempe-gf: you're being slandered!
19:58.18MistleTempe-gfmeh, not slander if it's true :P
19:58.43Bagginsww!8ball Am I really a nazi?
19:58.43[NewsBot]Bagginsww: My sources say no.
19:58.58pcj!8ball what about fascist?
19:58.58[NewsBot]pcj: Yes.
19:59.13Sky2042!8ball is everything you say true?
19:59.13[NewsBot]Sky2042: Signs point to yes.
19:59.24Sky2042looks like you're screwed Bagginsww :P
19:59.42Bagginsww!8ball so if I ask if I'm a fascist am I really a fascist?
19:59.43[NewsBot]Bagginsww: My reply is no.
20:00.16Sky2042!8ball are you able to change your mind?
20:00.17[NewsBot]Sky2042: It is certain.
20:00.19MistleTempe-gfSorry, I'm distracted by more britney spears trash-talk
20:06.31ecstasiai dreamt that i didn't have enough honor today for the item i wanted
20:06.40ecstasiaeven though i calculated carefully and overshot it
20:06.50ecstasiai was soooo pissed off in my dream too
20:07.31Sky2042i think, ecstasia, ou need to go do that thing we call "real life"
20:07.49KeolahMore disturbingly, I had a dream about the "Ironforge gay porn hour".
20:07.53ecstasiai was grinding honor last night before bed
20:08.54Sky2042will brb :/
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20:11.24Sky2042the wiki didn't just fart, did it?
20:11.37Bagginsww!8ball will hobbits become a playable race?
20:11.38[NewsBot]Bagginsww: Cannot predict now.
20:11.46pcjno, that was me
20:11.53KeolahThey're already in. They're called "gnomes" though :p
20:12.05Sky2042pcj: what did you do...?
20:12.10pcjgnomes don't have hairy feet
20:12.31KeolahHow do you know? Have you looked?
20:12.43Sky2042it's a proven fact
20:12.44pcjwell they wear shoes at least
20:12.48Sky2042~wiki Gnome
20:12.57KeolahMaybe its to hide their hairy feet!
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20:13.40KeolahAlso, I'd wear shoes too if they gave me stat bonuses ;P
20:13.47pcjgnomes are also more technically-minded, whereas hobbits are simpler and closer to nature
20:14.20KeolahEvery gnome can't be an engineer! :p
20:14.24Zealthey're evolving past the need for hair, just look at the males.
20:14.55Bagginswwgnomes in tolkien lore are the Noldor, one of the breeds of elves.
20:15.15KeolahHe abandoned that name for later versions though ;p
20:15.29Bagginswwit shows up in osme of his later unfinished writing though
20:15.36Bagginswwjust not any of the released writing
20:15.55Bagginswwalthough I'm pretty sure I have a reprint version of the hobbit that has reference to gnomes  :p
20:16.07Bagginswwthere are so many editions of the hobbit :p
20:16.10Keolah"Christopher Tolkien Needs Money Part XII: Something My Dad Once Scribbled On a Napkin"
20:16.18Bagginswwheh heh
20:16.45pcjc. tolkien probably doesn't need money, i imagine the royalties from the movies got him enough
20:16.56KeolahBut can he afford that third yacht?
20:17.12Bagginswwhe gets the royalties from the novel sells too
20:17.28Fiskersmasbtw Bagginsww
20:17.29pcj...yeah, but the movies are bigger bucks
20:17.31Fiskersmasblasphemy and madness
20:17.37FiskersmasBornakk said Kael'thas gets killed
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20:18.11kd3how'd I miss that post? I would've gotten on the forums to yell at him for that
20:18.22KeolahRegularly, I imagine.
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20:20.32Sky2042Kael'thas is a prick. The only real villains in the past have been Kil'jaeden, Gul'dan, and Archimonde. 2 of which are dead.
20:20.59Bagginswwthe blood elves were nutz even before we saw them in Lordaeron
20:21.03Bagginswwin TFT
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20:21.15Sky2042in wc2! :P
20:21.21Bagginswwthere wren't any in wc2
20:21.53Sky2042well, fine, high elves.
20:22.12BagginswwI was talking specifically about the blood elves
20:22.39BagginswwI'd call the older high elves ah, stuck up.
20:23.56KeolahWell, of course they are. They're freaking high elves. :p
20:24.10[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: Ad-Aware SE Expires on Dec 31 -
20:24.13[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: Wow Makes CVG Top Ten 2007 Games -
20:24.26KeolahIf you looked up "high elves" in a dictionary you'd see "arrogant long-eared bastards" :p
20:24.37Sky2042news to me
20:24.46Bagginswwdepends on what fantasy though
20:24.54KeolahJust about all of em, heh ;p
20:25.02KeolahHell, elves in general are generally arrogant :p
20:25.19Bagginswwwell in tolkien's world they seem more said, despondent than arrogant
20:25.37Bagginswwlike they know the end of the world is coming for them.
20:25.48Fiskersmascan he swing from a web?
20:25.54Fiskersmasno he can't cause he's a baggins
20:26.09KeolahEh, they get a good dose of the arrogance in teh Silmarillion though, long before the end-of-the-elfiness is in sight :p
20:26.22KeolahLike, say, Feanor. Poster child for elvish arrogance :p
20:26.27Bagginswwheh heh
20:26.47BagginswwI suppose even night elves show arrogance
20:26.56Bagginswwthere were so many subraces of elves in tolkien lore
20:27.49bleeter07:26 <@Bagginsww> I suppose even night elves show arrogance << if staghelm ain't arrogant, I'm a freakin' teapot
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20:28.18BagginswwIllidan is a poster child for arrogance too
20:28.26Sky2042bleeter: gief tea px
20:28.44[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 4626 doing ~ job/s, done in approx. 0secs.
20:28.48Sky2042Bagginsww: blame his brother :P
20:29.01Bagginswwalot of arrogant humans too :p... but they probably learned it from the elves.
20:29.03foxlitOkay, so someone obviously had an integer overflow
20:29.05[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 4626 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1hr 17mins 6secs.
20:29.24Bagginswwmagic breeds arrogance LOL
20:29.37foxlitSomeone do a Fandyllic, I need the queue time!
20:29.56Sky2042foxlit: do what?
20:30.10KeolahWhen a human is arrogant, it's generally assumed it's a one-off, that just that particular human is being arrogant. When an elf is arrogant, it's assumed that's the norm :p
20:30.54FiskersmasFUCKING WIN
20:30.58Bagginswwdwarves think all humans are arrogant :p
20:31.22sacarascall humans are arrogant
20:31.26Bagginswwbecause humanity often thinks its superior and innovative despite having short lives
20:31.32bleeterdwarves think everyone's arrogant
20:31.39Bagginswwand often acts as the mediators between everyone
20:31.39bleeterthey're prolly right, too
20:31.43Keolahit's becaues everyone except gnomes are taller than them.
20:31.46KeolahWell, goblins too.
20:31.52Bagginswwgnomes are the least arrogant of any race
20:31.54Fiskersmas :D
20:32.03KeolahGnomes are too busy blowing themselves up to be arrogant.
20:32.09Bagginswwthat's the goblins
20:32.20KeolahThey both do a fair share of it :p
20:32.23Bagginswwgnomes are too much into safety
20:32.28Bagginswwthey never finish most of their projects
20:32.32KeolahYes, this is why they irradiated their hometown? :p
20:32.47Sky2042Fiskersmas: is that what I think it is?
20:32.51Bagginswwto be fair one gnome did that
20:32.55Bagginswwand he lied to everyone else
20:33.02Bagginswwsaid it would be ok
20:33.11KeolahUh-huh. But it was still a gnome! :p
20:33.17Bagginswwa single gnome
20:33.27Sky2042Fiskersmas: that's weaksauce
20:33.28Bagginswwone that everyone trusted
20:33.31KeolahIt only takes one hand to push a big red button! :p
20:33.44Bagginswwit was a nuke not a big red button ;)
20:33.58Fiskersmasthat is definitely sum bill cosby Sky2042 :)
20:34.05Fiskersmasdo want and so forth
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20:34.12KeolahAnd hey, maybe it was the fault of everyone else for trusting him! :P
20:34.31Bagginswwanycase the point was as the advisor claimed, they'd kill everything in the city then pump out the radiation afterwords
20:34.39Bagginswweveryone was suppposed to get out of the city first
20:34.50Sky2042oh jesus, pcj's on the move again.
20:34.50Bagginswwbut they left said advisor at the controls :p
20:35.05Sky2042anyway, do need to wrap gifts and things. will be back later methinks
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20:35.14KeolahWonderful idea! :p
20:35.17Bagginswwanycase gnomes are good at getting others to blow themselves up :)
20:35.26Bagginswwlook at all the dwarves during wc2 ;)
20:35.34Bagginswwdwarven demolition squads
20:35.49Sky2042_afkpcj: where are you substing the welcome from?
20:36.20BagginswwSo sicco getting the other gnomes to blow up the city was really just an extension of that ;)
20:37.35KeolahIt could be worse, anyway.
20:37.38KeolahI mean, they could be undead or something. :P
20:38.11KeolahUndead gnomes, yech, scary thought. :p
20:38.15BagginswwI suppose radiated zombie gnomes would be creepy
20:38.29Bagginswwbrains brains gizmos brains
20:38.56ZealGnomes are just masochist
20:39.11Sky2042_afkpiu's warming up for a botron, me thinks
20:39.55pcjsilly piu
20:40.16BagginswwThe goblins are jealous they didn't think of it first, ;) LOL
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20:51.13foxlit(He's making a list, and checking it twice)
20:53.19FoxbotWoWWiki: 52289 articles (4626 in jobqueue) edited 1177101 times by 157623 users.
20:56.28foxlitI can't seem to save a page :/
20:57.17Sky2042_afkfoxlit: I was having that issue earlier; i think the wiki's burping :/
20:57.41ZealCollecting parts for his gnomish device.
20:57.43foxlitHTTP 500?
20:58.14Fiskersmasserver failure
20:58.32foxlitI'm aware of what it stands for; I want to know whether that's what Sky got previously :)
20:58.57foxlit!item [sandbox] Nordrassil Headpiece
20:59.03FoxbotTooltip saved, foxlit, view at
20:59.06Fiskersmasobviously you don't!
20:59.08foxlitOkay, evidently, it's me
20:59.20Sky2042_afki wasn't getting any specific issue; I basically couldn't view the wiki for a short period
20:59.24Sky2042_afkoh well
20:59.35foxlitNah, server rejects my small 500KB page submit :/
20:59.50Sky2042_afkwell, and that
21:00.09foxlitWonder if that's a request issue
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21:05.07[NewsBot]foxlit meant:
21:05.17bleeternoes! mechanical greench is 10 days onlly :(
21:06.14bleeteryou guys supporting SVG images yet?
21:06.25kd3nope. it's still on [[WW:SR]]
21:06.55foxlit(diff) (hist) . . b User:Foxbot/Items‎; 20:52 . . (+530,555) . . Foxbot (Talk | contribs) (Item List)
21:07.16[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Blizzard planning an official podcast in 2008 -
21:07.26Sky2042_afkbleeter: indeed.
21:08.00bleetermeh, i shouldn't complain. I'm meant to be fixing graphiz on norg's wiki
21:08.23kd3methinks that broke something. getting a blank page
21:08.56foxlitSeems I broke Squid
21:09.16bleeterthey are rewriting, and commenting, on a story from mmo-insider
21:09.25bleeterwhich references
21:09.37Sky2042_afkfoxlit: I /did/ do that also.
21:11.34foxlitGreat, do you know how to fix it, then?
21:11.35ZealBlizzPlanet's news about it is alot better anyways.
21:12.01kd3I'd just go on the standby of going in #wikia "I broke squid. help?"
21:12.42Sky2042_afkfoxlit: nope.
21:13.15foxlitI could probably roll back the changes, but I'm not too bothered at the moment
21:13.21foxlitThere's just a page normal users can't view
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21:52.01Sky2042_afkBagginsww: you submitted a question to golden. huh.
21:52.17BagginswwI think so a while back
21:54.44Sky2042_afkthe link on RotH
21:55.38MistleTempe-gfBaggins, Sky and Zeal... I wanna run something by you.
21:55.57Zealaslong as it's slow for me to read, sure :P
21:57.02MistleTempe-gfI was thinking about suggesting this on the VP, but wanted to mantion it here, first
21:57.21MistleTempe-gfI think we should create project groups for each of the classes
21:57.33pcji thought baggins already read taht
21:57.46MistleTempe-gfno, he only read the comment about me calling him a lore nazi
21:57.54MistleTempe-gfor I missed his response
21:58.09Zealoh, i see where you meant sky.
21:58.23MistleTempe-gfWe could put up a request to recruit some people to work on them
21:59.52MistleTempe-gfI think it would help keep the pages neat, and monitored, and also bring together a group of people who could be turned to when questions are asked about a particular class
21:59.57Zealwell i'm curious as to what aspect of classes you meant. All of it, or jsut gameplay, or just lore? :S TBH i doubt many people could really be cosnidered knowledgable about both aspects.
21:59.57Sky2042_afkrequest from who? outside the wiki?
22:00.16Sky2042_afkgameplay, naturally.
22:00.20MistleTempe-gfjust gameplay, I would say
22:00.25MistleTempe-gfthat's what mine and Piu's covers
22:00.27Sky2042_afklet the bookkeepers deal the lore
22:00.35Fiskersmasall i need is your love MistleTempe-gf
22:00.38Sky2042_afkshould be lorekeepers :/
22:00.43Sky2042_afkoh well.
22:01.02pcjyeah lorekeeper nazis
22:01.26Zealwell i still feel the groups/projects system in place is lacking, but sounds like an idea i guess.
22:01.37MistleTempe-gfhow is it lacking?
22:01.41Sky2042_afkBagginsww: Rend Blackhand is considered to be a Warrior by WoW
22:01.53foxlitEveryone knows he's a paladin
22:01.57Bagginswwsaid specifically?
22:02.01foxlitAs is Onyxia!
22:02.15Zealthe structure, guidelines, organization etc.
22:02.16MistleTempe-gfNO wai... Onyxia is a dr00d.
22:02.19BagginswwI mean beyond just presumptions based on abilities
22:02.38foxlitUnitClass > lore
22:02.39Sky2042_afkfoxlit: truth. Bagginsww: no, it's a UI thing. the game literally considers him to be a Warrior.
22:02.45MistleTempe-gfWhat would you suggest to improve it, Zeal?
22:03.21Bagginswwin other word a presumption ;). In the rpg multiple classes share many of the same abilities :p
22:03.34Bagginswwanycase I'm not finished with rend I have one more source to check
22:03.45Sky2042_afkno, not a presumption. he /is/ a "Warrior". anyways, where did he get the name Dal'Rend? :/
22:03.59foxlitlocal function filterTooltip(oldcode)
22:03.59foxlitreturn "";
22:04.07pcjmaybe he studied at Dalaran
22:04.22foxlitAnd then went back in time on a magic dragon.
22:04.24pcjhe's a mage, obviously
22:04.37foxlitWarlock by now, probably rerolled
22:04.48ggilbertIt's ok though, since most mages in game are classed as warriors as well :)
22:05.12pcjjaina proudmoore is clearly a shaman
22:05.14foxlitHm, any examples of that?
22:05.28Sky2042_afkggilbert: hush, you.
22:05.34Sky2042_afkfrawst shock.
22:05.35foxlitThey all have manabars, so that's either mage or a paladin :)
22:05.43*** join/#wowwiki Paradox__ (
22:05.47pcjor hunter
22:05.48Zealwhen Kirkburn redid the official wiki groups, i was trying to encourage it being an more open idea. So that groups could be formed on the wiki for anything, both official and unofficial, have their related pages in a group namespace, nice category for them all, soem sort of heirarcy where needed (eg. these classes could be a sub-group of the er.. article council)
22:06.05Bagginswwanycase the npc box is not a place for game mechanics, unless he's specifically stated to be a "warrior" in a quest text, then its only a presumption based on his abilities
22:06.15Bagginswwtechnically he should be a "mounted warrior"
22:06.29Bagginswwbut the RPG never knew he was going to be on a dragon
22:06.36Sky2042_afkbut it isn't a presumption. /the game defines him as a warrior/
22:06.52Bagginswwcite where it defines him as a warrior
22:06.57MistleTempe-gfHow would you apply that to class projects?
22:07.21Sky2042_afkfoxlit already did so.
22:07.44Sky2042_afkit isn't in-game, it's part of the mechanics. which aren't presumed. :/
22:07.55MistleTempe-gferr zeal
22:07.59Sky2042_afki don't really care either way, but saying it's a presumption is incorrect.
22:08.46Bagginswwagain abilities lists can be shared among various class types
22:08.58Bagginswwjust because he has certain abilities doesn't necessarily make him a "warrior"
22:09.01Sky2042_afkNot. An. Abilities. List.
22:09.08Bagginswwnpc ability lists are different than player class lists
22:09.10Sky2042_afkI'm not going by his abilities.
22:09.27Zeal[[Group:Class Council]] manage everything there through sub pages, category for he group, listening of what parent groups it may report back to/recieve tasks from.
22:09.27[NewsBot]Zeal meant:
22:10.03Sky2042_afkBagginsww: have you ever used CTMod?
22:10.26BagginswwI think so
22:10.45Sky2042_afkyou know those little boxes above the nameplates?
22:10.46ZealSky is saying the game reports him as a warrior class, but that class is not displayed for npcs.
22:11.00MistleTempe-gfBagginsww... it's not based on ability lists
22:11.14Sky2042_afkthose little boxes with the classes in them. Mage. Warrior. Priest. etc.
22:11.18Zealproblem is, npc classes are rather irrelevent
22:11.20ggilbertSky2042_afk: The problem with calling him a warrior based on his class definition in the UI is that Blizzard didn't apply them the same way
22:11.20Sky2042_afkthose weren't made up on the spot.
22:11.21MistleTempe-gfEach NPC has a "class" determined by the game.  It's just a name.  It doesn't say what abilities they have.
22:11.27Sky2042_afkggilbert: true.
22:11.29Bagginswwctmod is harldy offiical you know
22:11.35MistleTempe-gfBut it can be queried, and is by ctmod
22:11.43Zealwind serpents aren't paladins for example. i knwo thats a mob, but theres npcs i nthe same position.
22:11.44ggilbertBagginsww: It's just the UnitClass api call.
22:11.59Bagginswwdatamined information shouldn't even be listed
22:12.10pcjare wind serpents members of the silver hand or are they actually blood knights
22:13.09Zealnot really datamined, just hidden in the default ui. game still considers them to have that class, though imo its more for game mechanics and is clearly wrong in places, so wouldn't use it in an 2infobox" anyways.
22:13.37foxlitZeal, quit making sense
22:13.42foxlitYou're spoiling my view!
22:13.53Bagginswwya zeal
22:14.04Bagginswwbut still to get into the UI you have to actually break into the code :p
22:14.14foxlitNo, not really
22:14.36Zealit's an api, there to be used for players to access.
22:14.36foxlitYou do have to be mildly competent around code, but there's no real breaking anything involved
22:14.52MistleTempe-gfZeal... that much to-do about the projects/groups isn't necessary.
22:15.03Zealwhere as me extracting dbc files and reading info out of that, that's datamining :P
22:15.20Zealis imo
22:15.46Sky2042_afkis not imo
22:15.46MistleTempe-gfBagginsww, I could write a piddly script that basically says "Hello server, what class is Onyxia?" And the server will gladly tell me "Onyxia is a dr00d, DuTempete."
22:16.00MistleTempe-gfNo breaking involved.  I didn't have to beat the code into submission.  I just asked.
22:16.07Bagginswwok, I won't argue about that. Still I think its not reliable enough to be in the infobox
22:16.17Bagginswwcertainly not citeable evidence
22:16.20Zeali never liked the idea of a "project" namespace the way mediawiki implements it, but putting them in the there as it is atm, suggests their official and puts off the idea of user created groups and beign free to manage themselves.
22:16.41Sky2042_afkthey don't have a namespace for projects
22:16.55MistleTempe-gfSo, you think it appeals to people as coming from up above?
22:17.04MistleTempe-gfThere's no indiv. namespace on the wiki
22:17.16MistleTempe-gfand wikipedia uses "portals"
22:17.42Zealno, i meant the project namespace, in ww's case is WoWWiki:
22:18.05Fiskersmasso foxlit
22:18.09Fiskersmasseen that failed :(
22:18.13MistleTempe-gfBoth existing class projects are in the user namespace, Zeal
22:18.24foxlitGiven the published passwords of their members
22:18.27foxlitI'm not sure who failed more
22:18.40Zeali know, hence why i said they're not really accessable or advertised to people.
22:19.09MistleTempe-gfThey're linked to from WW:Projects
22:19.19Zealwould have liked to have seen them take a place in the new user guide, see what active projects there are and what gorup they might want to join.
22:19.24Sky2042_afkand WW:Comm. Portal
22:19.28Zealbut not where else
22:19.41Zealwhich sucks tbh >_>
22:19.49Zealcomm portal that is.
22:20.08MistleTempe-gfyeah, I want to see that too, but that doesn't affect how they're implemented... so I'm confused about what you're getting at :P
22:21.03Zealthe implementation of a seperate namespace makes it more inviting to everyone and more obvious they exist and allows easier self-management.
22:21.18MistleTempe-gfHow does it make it more obvious they exist?
22:21.25Zealatm seeing offical groups in the project namespace and unofficial ones in the user namespace is a bit odd.
22:21.29*** join/#wowwiki Paradox_ (
22:21.36MistleTempe-gfI certainly didn't know namespaces existed for ages after joining the wiki
22:21.49Zealbecausee it's then a known namespace, shows they have a functional space built around them.
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22:22.20MistleTempe-gfYes, it is.  I dont' think the projects idea is as fully implemented as it should be.
22:23.10Sky2042_afkyou're funny MistleTempe-gf :P
22:23.15MistleTempe-gflol why?
22:23.31Zealbut back to the quetion at hand, are you lookign to make it a "community team" then, as seeing as you have the "groups" already, don't see why else.
22:23.39MistleTempe-gfwhat'd I do now, Sky?
22:24.24MistleTempe-gfYou're only talking semantics, now, zeal
22:24.42foxlitHrm, laurly
22:24.43foxlit|itemid=4503 & vbCrLf
22:24.43Zealam i?
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22:27.48Fiskersmasit's funz0rz though foxlit
22:28.03Fiskersmasgood thing i discovered it though
22:28.13Fiskersmasmy old account has the same password as my steam account
22:28.46pcjwhat??? you don't even salt your passwords?
22:29.54Sky2042_afkMistleTempe-gf: you wouldn't be having this chat with Zeal if you hadn't disagreed with the statement you just made.
22:30.07pcjusing the same base password for every site but adding site-specific id for each site, like "bl@h" for your base pw, and "bl@hww" for your wowwiki pw
22:30.27Fiskersmasgood idea though
22:30.28Zealnot really, should could be having it because she agreed with the statement, but was curious as to the reasoning :p
22:30.35Zeal*she could
22:30.50MistleTempe-gfWhen did I say I disagreed with that statement, Sky2042_afk?
22:31.03MistleTempe-gfI never claimed that projects are just the way they should be.
22:32.24Sky2042_afkdisagreed was a bad word. the original question of "how is it lacking" suggest you thought that proj.s were fine.
22:32.45MistleTempe-gfNo, it suggested that I wanted to know what Zeal's opinion is. :P
22:32.55Zealscarying thing that, lol
22:32.56MistleTempe-gfThe connotation you took from it is biased. :P
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22:34.17[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 4626 doing ~ job/s, done in approx. 0secs.
22:34.27[NewsBot]Stats update failed! Reason: File upload failed.
22:34.29Zeali'd be interested in helping with hunters if it wasn't for the fact i don't play anymore and any questions about pvp would just turn into a rant from me. :p
22:34.45pcjdotted fails so much
22:34.53[NewsBot]Channels stats:
22:35.06Sky2042_afkZeal: don't touch the PvP page or two there are.
22:35.18Sky2042_afkupdating the abiltiies pages to use the current boilerplate would be enough :/
22:35.40MistleTempe-gfZeal, it sounds to me like you basically just want to make sure the groups seem and are accesible to everyone, yes?
22:35.59Zealpretty much
22:36.22Fiskersmaswhere does one simply change their google/gmail password?
22:36.24MistleTempe-gfThat the tools are available to everyone, regardless of position, etc.!
22:36.47Fiskersmasfound it :o
22:36.52Fiskersmasfuck you btw MistleTempe-gf
22:37.05MistleTempe-gfno thanks, I'm seeing someone, Fiskersmas.
22:37.22Zealnot quite that far, real backend groups would be for official groups only.
22:37.39Fiskersmasthanks for the protips pcj :O
22:37.46pcjheh fisker's quote on
22:37.48pcj"i dislike you DuTempete"
22:38.27Fiskersmasi hate it when |Pixel|'s quotes are french
22:38.58|Pixel|do I have quotes ?
22:39.27Zealhm.. MistleTempe-gf said "colours" turning british? :P
22:39.36MistleTempe-gfYes, I am. :P
22:40.23|Pixel|omg, I do
22:40.28Sky2042_afkI've done that before...
22:40.57pcjnext she'll be eating yoghourt
22:41.07MistleTempe-gfomg spell it right, pcj.
22:41.16pcjtell that to the brits
22:41.24Fiskersmasbtw pcj
22:41.30Fiskersmasi'm in my sites salting up my passwords
22:42.20Sky2042_afkif you really smart, you'd actually have different pws... >.>
22:42.44Fiskersmaswell i do
22:42.56Fiskersmasi have different passwords for anything significant
22:43.00Fiskersmasi.e. bank accounts, WoW, etc.
22:43.12Fiskersmasbut random sites i use the same
22:43.43pcjdutempete: "yogurt [...] (also yoghurt or yoghourt)" qed. from the oed.
22:44.09Zeali have 2 (thought with about 6 slight vairents), and i change them in all locations everytime i change my pc/theme/mind
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22:47.11MistleTempe-gfyeah, yeah, whatever, pcj.
22:47.16Sky2042_afkaaaaaaaaa the bot spoke
22:47.19Sky2042_afkrun for your liiiiives
22:47.43Foxbot|shardBecause you're using a superior browser, Zeal.
22:48.07Zealwell no, it's because js is doing something in a crappy way.
22:48.19Zealall other wiki pages are fine.
22:48.51Foxbot|shardAll the other browsers are fine, really
22:49.00Sky2042_afkwhat's Zeal using?
22:49.13ZealAvant w/ie7
22:49.31Foxbot|shardTo quote Zeal: "Note: If you are using firefox, please stop following suit and buying into the hype and go back to internet explorer, as it is a much better browser, and this site will not be shown correctly by firefox or mozilla."
22:49.55Zealstill stand by that.
22:50.29Zealthough i didn't make that site work with firefox out of being lazy and firefox not having gotten to where it is now.
22:50.38Sky2042_afkZeal: so, what exactly doesn't view correctly in FF?
22:50.46Zealno idea
22:50.56Zealjust refused to care if it did or not.
22:51.04Zealor are you speaking in general?
22:51.09Sky2042_afkoh, so it's just a blanket statement that is probably incorrect by its very nature
22:51.12Sky2042_afkwell, sure!
22:51.16pcjwait so we should take you seriously why?
22:51.37Sky2042_afkfoxlit: you're scarin me mon.
22:51.54Zealsky, done some tests before, found things firefox does wrong and agaisnt spec/random, though they're fixed soon after.
22:52.04Zealbut firefox had tons to start with.
22:52.38Sky2042_afkoh boy
22:56.07Zealsomething wrong with ie7 or the code being used for ie7, meh.
22:56.32Zealconsidering it's only that page, and it on the whole of the page, thinking code.
22:56.35MistleTempe-gfSky2042_afk, you ahven't told me what you think about the class projects, yet.
22:56.51Sky2042_afkmmm... you didn't answer my question yet either. ;P
22:57.01MistleTempe-gfhave you tried the RC page, Zeal?
22:57.07MistleTempe-gfsorry, ask it again, Sky
22:57.50Sky2042_afknon-wiki recruits? or people already familiar?
22:58.06MistleTempe-gfwhat do you mean by non-wiki recruits?
22:58.17Zealthink i did actaully, think it happened there too (as it uses the same js as the watchlist).
22:58.24pcjrecuit from outside the wiki
22:58.37Sky2042_xmasyou said, go recruit people for the projects. question is, people that already edit, or?...
22:58.41MistleTempe-gfgoodness no, why would we do taht?
22:59.02MistleTempe-gfI mean posting on the WP, VP, and talk pages for the classes.
22:59.25MistleTempe-gfmebbe dropping a line to folks particularly vocal on related pages.
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23:00.10Sky2042_xmasyeah... um, the people editing already have their little projects probably. then there are the readers, who don't care either way. more projects just spreads the people thinner.
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23:00.21Zealhm.. actually, it's oly i the top portions of each, anything above the namespace drop down.
23:00.28Zeal*only in
23:00.33|Pixel|oh, by the way
23:00.44|Pixel|Merry Christmas (for those in the GMT+1 TZ)
23:00.45Sky2042_xmasyou're going to tell us the mmo blizz is working on?
23:00.50Adys|xmasYou too Pixel
23:01.00Adys|xmasHow about a nice alpha key as xmas gift?
23:01.12|Pixel|I have one :P
23:01.20Adys|xmasYeah, these things
23:01.25Sky2042_xmasnot cool!
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23:01.42FoxbotWoWWiki: 52289 articles (4626 in jobqueue) edited 1177369 times by 157643 users.
23:01.42Foxbot|shardWoWWiki: 52289 articles (4626 in jobqueue) edited 1177369 times by 157643 users.
23:01.52foxlitCheers, Pixel!
23:01.55[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 4626 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 1hr 17mins 6secs.
23:02.22pcjwow the jobqueue isn't really doing anything...
23:02.23Sky2042_xmasi think the jobqueue died
23:02.30foxlitIt needs hits and so on
23:02.38foxlitI'd imagine wiki is pretty dead at the moment
23:02.48Zealthe squid attacked it
23:03.13pcjit would still be doing one or two articles
23:03.35foxlitIt's not a cronjob
23:03.53pcji know
23:04.01pcjbut this is over the last hour or two
23:07.09foxlitOops :P
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23:08.07foxlit"a distributed system is one where the crash of a computer that you've never heard of stops you from getting any work done."
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23:11.17Sky2042_xmasBagginsww: shame on you.
23:11.25Sky2042_xmasyou spelled orgrim wrong
23:11.47pcji bet his friends always made fun of that name
23:11.52pcjorgyrim imo
23:12.12Zealhm... <-- gief
23:12.33Sky2042_xmasnice shirt
23:12.58Zealindeed, jinx pulled their finger out of their ass and made some new designs now it seems.
23:13.01Sky2042_xmasall sizes out of stock, except for 3xl
23:13.07Zeal*new, better
23:14.32Zealcan't believe they didn't add anything on the sleeve too, bit cheap.
23:14.52Zealfrostmourne would be perfect for it.
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23:17.13Zealhm.. also uses lots of cpu when mousing over the date headers on the list. : /
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23:22.22Sky2042_xmaswell, huh
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23:25.12foxlitWell, almost
23:26.45Sky2042_xmasmy mother's so confusing...
23:28.20foxlit> Done [Null]. Starting [Block 14503].
23:29.03foxlit> Done [Null]. Starting [Block 14503].
23:29.13foxlitOh, fs
23:29.21foxlit!> Done [Null]. Starting [Block 14503].
23:29.42foxlitAnd there was I thinking why they wouldn't sync
23:30.49pcjYou're such a 'tard
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23:31.36foxlitLet's play "quickest wiki vandalism in the history of vandalism"
23:32.24Sky2042_xmasfoxlit: what... are you doing?
23:32.47Sky2042_xmasand you failed.
23:32.52Sky2042_xmasthe tooltips are stretched.
23:33.19foxlitI'm aware of that
23:33.19Sky2042_xmaswhy are they stretched? :(
23:33.31Sky2042_xmasand what happened to fixing the categories they were in? :(
23:34.17foxlitSky: that'd take too much effort on my part
23:34.40pcjdamn those are stretched
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23:35.44foxlitThere are 40 blocks of 500 pages
23:35.51Sky2042_xmaswhy again are we stretching them?
23:36.03foxlitWe aren't
23:36.35Sky2042_xmasand why pass the parameter to the pages? :/
23:36.35foxlitIt'll go away in an hour or two
23:36.39[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 125 doing ~1.3 job/s, done in approx. 1min 36secs.
23:36.46pcjwhy is so small
23:37.28Sky2042_xmasbecause they fail at wiki coding? >.>
23:37.38Sky2042_xmasbecause home= hasn't been changed yet?
23:37.51[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 113 doing ~1.2 job/s, done in approx. 1min 34secs.
23:37.54foxlitBecause rather than using the jobqueue, the wiki just attempted to live-fix the Tooltip change
23:38.06Sky2042_xmasbecausethe jobqueue is borken
23:38.36pcjactually i bet every submission foxbot does helps the jobqueue along
23:38.48foxlitIt's probably throttled
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23:39.59foxlitSomeone might as well prepare to welcome foxbot to the 25k club
23:42.37pcjis it processing all items or just everything with {{tooltip}}
23:42.49foxlitEverything with elinks-item
23:43.34pcjwhat about those yet-to-be-disambigged pvp reward items with multiple elinks-item
23:43.38pcjand multiple tooltips
23:44.14foxlitTheoretically not a problem
23:44.19foxlitPractically, we'll see
23:44.43[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 672 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 11mins 12secs.
23:45.49Sky2042_xmaswhy again are you passing the parameter of {{{arg|}}} to each page? :/
23:46.19foxlitBecause I want to :)
23:46.29Sky2042_xmasfoxlit: fails as a reason
23:46.29foxlitBecause there is no other way to get it into tooltip
23:47.23Zealstill think it's silly how you've done the item page code for home.
23:47.39Sky2042_xmasi think it's silly you have to pass arg to get your code in. :/
23:48.07pcji think it's silly that you have to use foxbot to update all the pages instead of doing it manually
23:48.18foxlitI think it's silly that there are no fireworks outside
23:48.21Sky2042_xmaspcj: that too. we have too many item articles.
23:48.28Sky2042_xmasfoxlit: also agreed.
23:49.29foxlitIf wiki drops sessions, though, I'm so doomed
23:51.02foxlitAbout 200 more edits from each instance before anything interesting is scheduled to happen
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23:55.57foxlitHm, Zeal, you're actually right
23:56.18Zealshock horror! about what might i ask? :P
23:56.19pcjboy, bet you thought you'd never say that
23:57.00foxlitIt's mainly there to make tooltip code pretty

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