IRC log for #wowwiki on 20071121

00:01.23pcjIs that better?
00:02.14Kirkburn|afkMuch better
00:03.55pcjl8r then
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00:08.27Hobinheim|ubuntuso indecisive... what class should i roll and what should i name him!
00:18.45pcjwhat do you like doing, tanking, healing, or dps
00:20.20winkillerthe MrT one is SO cool
00:20.38winkillerHobinheim: Gnome named Tux?
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00:38.51[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 184 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 3mins 4secs.
00:39.21[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Guildwatch: Handing out turkey according to DKP -
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01:31.07Hobinheim|ubuntui don't think i could cut it as a tank
01:31.22Hobinheim|ubuntujust enough to save clothies
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02:05.49[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: StarCraft II Q&A - Batch 22: Map Maker Series -
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02:55.21Jachel292Hi guys
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04:07.25[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Valentine's in November -
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06:05.47[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: Hunch in Progress -
06:09.20[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Tivo Alert - “Rise of the Video Game” Documentary Begins Tonight -
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07:44.14quiescensso I'm wondering
07:48.37quiescensoh hey that's convenient
07:55.25[NewsBot]MMO Champion: Blue posts, EU armory, WoW ads -
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10:01.53[NewsBot]World of Raids: EU Armory update, Daily Blue and WoW Commercials -
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10:29.53dispelis any one here a OP on wowhead
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10:42.07Bibiyes there is Adys|sleep
10:42.12Bibiyou should talk to him if you've got any problem.
10:42.20Bibihe helps people everytime
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10:52.33Kalrothdispel: join #wowhead
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10:58.38Bibihey mister smart Kalroth
10:58.45Bibimaybe he's asking for an op of #wowhead here because he cannot join it ?
10:59.02Bibimaybe all hosts from are banned ?
10:59.09Bibiand maybe he's got one of this hosts ?
10:59.30KalrothToo bad!
10:59.51KalrothBesides, he wrote wowhead, not #wowhead. Maybe he means the website and not the channel!
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11:45.00|FF|Im2good4udoes the shaman ghost wolf count as a shapeshift ?
12:06.50dispeli cant join #wowhead
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12:29.58Bibi[11:59:31] <Kalroth> Besides, he wrote wowhead, not #wowhead. Maybe he means the website and not the channel!
12:30.05BibiHe also said he wanted to see an OP.
12:30.11Bibilike in operator, channel operator.
12:30.20BibiI can't see any op on wowhead, can you mister Kalroth ?
12:30.25Kalrothor like in operator, site operator?!
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12:45.52[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: The Making of Blood Elf vs. Draenei Diorama Podcast -
12:49.22[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Conservative Pundit Calls Out Censorious Senator -
12:49.25[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Silicon Knights’ Dyack Bemoans Ontario Brain Drain -
12:49.28[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Contest Reminder: Design a Banner for GP Forums, Win a Prize Package -
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13:27.27[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Breakfast Topic: WoW rewards for game loyalty -
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13:59.33VoluspKirkburn, you're an engineer, right? A 6 m tall flagpole breaks so that the tip of the flagpole now touches the ground 4.2 m away from its base. Where on the flagpole did the rupture occur?
13:59.58VoluspOh, you're sleeping. :(
14:00.15VoluspCan anyone else lend me a hand?
14:01.07Kirkburn|sleepSounds fun
14:02.19Kirkburn|sleepYou know the total length of the vertical and hypoteneous (6m) and the base length is 4.2m
14:04.09Kirkburn|sleepDrawing a diagram helps, but can't really think of a simple method to solve that
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14:09.24[NewsBot]GamePolitics: Federal Judge Dismisses Jack Thompson’s Suit Against Florida Bar -
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14:15.28[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Reminder! Caption This contest ends tomorrow! -
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14:26.05VoluspNo :(
14:29.38zealisn't an "ignorant pedant" an oxymoron? :s
14:30.19VoluspI don't know, but I'd like to know.
14:30.37VoluspI'll use it in my next English essay
14:33.00VoluspQuestion. What's the difference between avertising and advertising?
14:33.42Zealthe former isn't a word?
14:33.44VoluspIs it possible to advertise yourself, or do you have to avertise yourself?
14:34.55Zealpeople can't spell
14:35.03Zealeven google suggests advertising :P
14:35.17VoluspAvertise is Dutch :O
14:35.29Zealanyways, bbl
14:35.46VoluspWhy do you change your name all the time?
14:36.36zealcommon practice tbh.
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14:37.11VoluspWhat's the point?
14:42.09KalrothSo people can see he isn't here?
14:43.40VoluspZeal - zeal
14:44.02Voluspzeal - zeal
14:44.09VoluspZeal - zeal
14:44.35VoluspAnyway, I have another question
14:45.13VoluspWhat's the most common in Europe: milliard or billion?
15:03.28[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Around Azeroth: What big teeth you have -
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15:24.33winkillerVolusp: never even heard milliard in school
15:24.55winkillerin English lessons (no native English speaker)
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15:35.28[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Blood Pact: So you've picked a Lock ... -
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16:07.27[NewsBot]WoW Insider: WoW wants to lift you up where you belong -
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16:47.11foxlitSometimes I miss a UI namespace
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17:07.24|Pixel|PCNC is live in europe
17:07.59AdysIll change my name to Killarxxxlul and transfer to a rp realm
17:08.18Adys30 euros to make people think i levelled to 70 with that
17:08.58Adyspixel, fix the armory :/
17:09.32|Pixel|hm ?
17:09.37Adysguild roster name
17:09.58|Pixel|hm ?
17:10.05Adystop right :(
17:11.25[NewsBot]WoW Insider: WoW Moviewatch: Blood Elven Paso Doble -
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17:26.23Lukian<Adys> Ill change my name to Killarxxxlul and transfer to a rp realm <- lol! :D
17:26.33LukianI tried to roll 'Orgazmo' on an RP realm :(
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17:40.07winkillerwell, I love the naming policy on rp actually
17:40.10winkillerno "loltroll"
17:40.21winkilleror Leethunterdk
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17:46.47LukianI wonder if I can roll a Klit on an RP
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17:56.26[NewsBot]The job queue length is currently 60476 doing ~1 job/s, done in approx. 16hrs 47mins 56secs.
17:56.57Bagginswwgg at this point I can't take Kirochi seriously anymore...
17:57.47foxlitWonder what Fandyllic is up to
17:58.05pcjWhy is he adding "mob powers" to item tooltip
18:00.00foxlitThat does need a tooltip
18:00.20pcjIt shouldn't be the same template as item tooltips tho
18:00.21foxlitBut people need to stop messing with {{tooltip}}, sandbox their dev changes and use new templates where warranted.
18:00.34foxlitIt's not immediately obvious that by {{tooltip}} we mean {{item}}
18:01.01pcjWell, maybe #REDIRECT to [[Template:Tooltip Item]]
18:01.11foxlit"The template creates a WoW styled tooltip for items and characters;"
18:01.47pcjlast i checked it wasn't used for characters
18:01.55foxlitThat's what Talk: says
18:02.39foxlitevil proposed change time
18:02.49foxlitWe're deprecating both comment and desc in favour of flavour
18:03.14foxlitOr, rather, |flavor=, which becomes universal for flavor text on items.
18:03.42pcjSounds like an arbitrary changes
18:03.48foxlitYeah, it is
18:04.10foxlitThere's no real purpose than to provide a clear idea of what the parameter is used for
18:04.37foxlitPower moves to some ability tooltip template
18:07.05pcjSo make all the Spell: pages into using the new ability tooltip?
18:07.44foxlitBut not all of them are actual abilities :/
18:07.58foxlitTranslating Increases damage and healing by 23. into a tooltip seems odd :)
18:15.32Fisker-i'm back :(
18:16.10pcjdamn it
18:16.27foxlitis all flavor text in quotes?
18:17.14pcj"all" is a big generalization
18:17.42foxlitNot really :)
18:17.58pcjPretty sure it is tho
18:18.48foxlitOnly 200 items with flavor text, most of them gems
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18:39.29[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Have any of you tried... -
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18:56.46pcjOh, i bet you're proud of that one
18:58.07pcjWouldn't have quotes on that desc tho
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19:03.43foxlitYeah, that's a bit of a bug
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19:35.29[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Ghost Wolf: The newest, rarest pet -
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20:03.32[NewsBot]MMO Champion: 2.3.2 Class changes, PCNC in Europe -
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20:09.18foxlitability infobox = mehmeh
20:25.56[NewsBot]World of Raids: Patch 2.3.2 on PTR and Class Changes -
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20:41.04KirkburnTecnoBrat-, make up your damn mind :P
20:41.24TecnoBratSorry :P
20:41.29TecnoBratFixing my links :P
20:41.48TecnoBratI keep getting d/c and it pisses me off cause I'm in a moderated channel, and then can't change my nick
20:42.07TecnoBratI'm done now tho
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20:47.41VoluspFake your beauty ;9
20:48.57KirkburnThat totally made sense to me
20:49.50TecnoBratit did?
20:52.25foxlit"It's your group-based mana regeneration talent and second rate DPS..." best opening ever.
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20:53.14VoluDon't you also find this movie very fascinating?
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20:56.32[NewsBot]Channels stats:
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21:02.28VoluStupid American Family visits Britain:
21:02.40Polarina|Pixel|: Why isn't the login form to the forums using SSL or any encrypted protocols?
21:03.32[NewsBot]WoW Insider: The Endless Grind -
21:03.49VoluPolarina :)
21:04.10PolarinaVolu: :)
21:05.10Fisker-it is Polarina
21:05.17PolarinaFisker-: No, it didn't..
21:05.20Fisker-It did
21:05.36Fisker-The form itself is secure
21:05.41Fisker-but the page isn't
21:05.45PolarinaFisker-: The form itself isn't but it sends the POST data through SSL.
21:06.02Fisker-the difference being?
21:06.15*** join/#wowwiki Volu (i=d5a760c4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:06.25VoluYou're new, aren't you ;)?
21:06.28PolarinaFisker-: That is elliminating the entire purpose of SSL. It would be exactly as secure by removing that SSL part completely.
21:06.44Fisker-proof or it didn't happen
21:06.57PolarinaFisker-: Because the "man in the middle" could simply modify the location where the POST data is going to be sent, redirecting it to his own server for example!
21:07.25Fisker-he could simply modify the location you're visiting too
21:07.36PolarinaFisker-: But it isn't as notable.
21:07.48PolarinaFisker-: And there are certificates.
21:07.55Fisker-sure is he could just use another dns entry
21:08.04Fisker-MITM-attacks does require significant access to your personal network
21:08.11|Pixel|Polarina: the purpose of the SSL in that case is not to render man in the middle attack impossible
21:08.23|Pixel|it is to render network sniffing useless
21:08.31Polarina|Pixel|: But he could still easily access your password.
21:08.39foxlitwru, nonce-based client side hashing?
21:08.42|Pixel|and it's way easier to do network sniffing than man in the middle
21:08.43|Pixel|how ?
21:09.01Polarina|Pixel|: He could modify the data transfered.
21:09.09|Pixel|how ? :)
21:09.27Polarina|Pixel|: Like he "steals" your packets.
21:09.47|Pixel|just explain me how one would do that :p
21:10.14Polarina|Pixel|: Explain me why you have SSL in the first place since you don't believe it is possible.
21:10.22|Pixel|22:08 < |Pixel|> it is to render network sniffing useless
21:10.33|Pixel|SSL will encrypt the login and the password
21:11.25Polarina|Pixel|: Yes.
21:11.25|Pixel|so anyone sniffing the network using wireless hooking or so wouldn't be able to read your password
21:11.25Polarina|Pixel|: It does.
21:11.25Polarina|Pixel|: Of course.
21:11.25|Pixel|that's it
21:11.25Fisker-MITM-attack are, as i said, already significantly harder to pull off than sniffing
21:11.25Fisker-and in the case that you're suffering for that kind of an attack you probably have other things to be worried about
21:11.25|Pixel|Fisker-: indeed
21:11.28Fisker-like who your friends are and aren't
21:11.32Polarina|Pixel|: But one could modify the unencrypted form page where you enter the username and password to have it post it to a different location. (Like his own server).
21:11.43|Pixel|and once again
21:11.51|Pixel|explain me how one could modify the unencrypted form page
21:12.09|Pixel|I could pretty much explain how one could sniff an unencrypted network
21:12.22|Pixel|there are thouthands of ways to sniff a network
21:12.24Polarina|Pixel|: Having a automatic program installed on one of the computers that the packets go thorugh, and modify them.
21:12.38KirkburnBut only one way to sniff a dog
21:13.01|Pixel|so, you're talking about your ISP's routers having a trojan or something, huh ?
21:13.04Fisker-i'm still maintaining that if you have that issue, getting your locks changed would be of higher priority
21:13.14Polarina|Pixel|: I read an article about this somewhere, let me find it for you.
21:13.35|Pixel|with pleasure
21:13.58Adysyes, the internet's articles are the best source of truth in the world
21:14.08Fisker-school administration fun
21:14.16|Pixel|Adys: and fun
21:14.19Fisker-Your school has a script that searches for all mp3 files on the computer and reports it
21:14.23|Pixel|source of truth, and source of fun
21:14.30Fisker-PROTIP: Make a batch script that makes random .mp3 files
21:14.34Fisker-use it on login
21:15.23Fisker-One of the other students were trying to login while i was making literally thousands and thousands of empty MP3 files
21:15.35Fisker-and it was hanging in the login screen until i stopped my script :D
21:15.58|Pixel|Fisker-: fork bomber!
21:16.10Fisker-i'm one of the good guys now though :(
21:16.17Fisker-Work for the administration there
21:17.28Fisker-Also i need you to go look through some logs that you are not allowed to share with me
21:18.49Fisker-Should add mmo-champion or something as a source
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21:19.52Fisker-so Bibi
21:19.58Fisker-shouldn't happen to have the enGB downloader? :P
21:20.01Polarina|Pixel|:   -    Under "Critical Mistake #1: Non-HTTPS Login pages (even if submitting to a HTTPS page)."
21:20.01Fisker-giev notes
21:20.07foxlitforum links or nothing!
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21:22.46Fisker-Polarina which pretty much already covers what we have discussed
21:22.48Polarina|Pixel|: Bank of America was a victim of such attack (Form is unencrypted, sending data through SSL)
21:23.15Fisker-how was it "victim of such attack" when the attack is served at clients rather than servers?
21:23.23KirkburnDone, Fisker-
21:23.32[NewsBot]MMO Champion: 2.3.2 PTR Patch notes. -
21:23.38PolarinaFisker-: You know what I mean.
21:24.11KirkburnBibi, you like crashing your server don't you
21:24.28Fisker-Polarina but it means that the attack shouldn't be widespread
21:24.32Fisker-which is a big difference
21:25.01PolarinaFisker-: Still, it is possible, and I feel uncomfortable with that.
21:25.03Fisker-As they themselves say, it creates a performance issue by serving https data directly
21:25.21Fisker-They're not going to make the forum entirely rely on https
21:25.26PolarinaFisker-: It can't be so much if they add SSL encryption to the login form.
21:25.27Fisker-so that leaves removing the form left
21:25.38Fisker-they have SSL encryption to the login form
21:25.47Fisker-The login form itself redirects to the HTTPS page
21:25.49PolarinaFisker-: No they don't, only on the POST data.
21:26.15Fisker-i don't mean the form up in the right corner
21:26.24Fisker-cause that form is gone if they want to make that change realistically
21:26.56PolarinaFisker-: I'm talking about the big form in the middle of the screen.
21:27.04Fisker-that one is https
21:27.11PolarinaNot in Europe...
21:28.01Fisker-might be my script that automatically redirects though
21:28.04Fisker-cause i'm getting to that page fine
21:28.06|Pixel|"A bad guy sitting on the wire between the two could simply retarget the POST to submit to a HTTPS site that he controls.  Oops. "
21:28.28|Pixel|again, I'd just like to see that, just once
21:28.31Fisker-but in any case it's about removing the existing right corner form
21:28.37Fisker-and redirecting to the login page
21:28.41PolarinaFisker-: I never suggested that.
21:28.51Fisker-Polarina realistically it is
21:28.58Osehow do I stop textboxes from "crashing" into eachother? I have been trying to sort out my user page (, but my two boxes are kinda overlapping eachother...
21:29.07Fisker-The more work the server has to do, the worse it will run
21:29.30Fisker-and you can always opt for using the https page
21:29.38foxlitose: don't use position: absolute
21:29.40Fisker-Which btw doesn't restrict a MITM attack
21:29.53Fisker-as he, as already said, can still manipulate the data stream
21:30.06KirkburnBibi, :(
21:30.11PolarinaFisker-: He can't fake the certificate.
21:30.17|Pixel|Fisker-: well, he won't be able to fake the certificate
21:30.32Fisker-And if you're smart enough to figure out you're getting phished, you're smart enough to figure out how to not get MITM attacks, and you're smart enough to use the https page to begin with
21:30.36Fisker-exactly |Pixel|
21:31.02Fisker-But face it, no normal user is going to take any notice of any certificates ever
21:31.27|Pixel|when your browser pops a big red flashy popup with "INVALID CERTIFICATE!" in front of you...
21:32.13Fisker-well that's the worst case scenario
21:32.31Fisker-but as far as i know it's perfectly possible to generate a certificate which will remove that big red flashy popup
21:32.46PolarinaFisker-: That certificate would have to be registered.
21:32.48|Pixel|you won't get the root signature
21:33.21Fisker-well i'm pretty sure it went fine making my own certificate on my own server
21:33.30|Pixel|but then
21:33.38|Pixel|you get a popup "invalid certificate" :)
21:33.53Fisker-only if it tries to say the site is right?
21:34.10foxlitYou need someone the User Agent trusts to sign your certificate
21:34.23foxlitOr you'll get "certificate untrusted" errors no matter who you pretend to be
21:34.42Fisker-that's actually right
21:34.43foxlitAnd the big assumption is that you cannot get a CA to sign off on your claim to be
21:34.58Fisker-it came up with an additional popup when i tried to access my own https server
21:35.22|Pixel|a popup which says something like
21:35.30Fisker-"Don't do it!"
21:35.32|Pixel|"accept for this session, permanently, or forbid"
21:35.33Fisker-"Yes, yes and yes"
21:35.46Fisker-better read those boxes :P
21:36.21Fisker-I guess the best thing to do is to just link the page
21:36.39Fisker-like they wrote with having both the https in http form and the link to the https page
21:36.53Fisker-still don't think it'll matter though
21:37.01|Pixel|I'll give Polarina credit for the following:
21:37.28|Pixel|IF you are in a cyber caf, or in an untrusted area, such as hooking randomly with your wireless network, or even in a unsecure university or so
21:37.40|Pixel|then you MIGHT think about suffering a MITM attack
21:39.15Fisker-even my school detect mitm's pretty easily :P
21:39.20Fisker-and they suck
21:43.29Kirkburn updated!
21:44.15KirkburnProps to Bibi
21:44.34BibiBecause he's nice
21:44.51KirkburnBibi, know the version number?
21:45.03|Pixel|because he's french
21:47.42Fisker-engb patch not up yet
21:47.50Fisker-i want to get online, need a computer, etc.
21:48.53Fisker-i hope they put in additional logging for guild bank
21:49.05Fisker-some idiot keeps splitting up the guild bank and write "LOL" in items
21:49.16Fisker-and this time it's not me
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21:51.34[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Mage changes in next patch -
21:52.42|Pixel|this page should be updated
21:52.44|Pixel|about ice block
21:52.51Fisker-he just did
21:53.11KirkburnThanks though
21:53.38Adyswhats with randomly skipping an increment? :P
21:53.41Fisker-btw |Pixel| we're having fun
21:53.51Fisker-Some guy claiming to have the WotLK alpha
21:53.56|Pixel|2.3.2 was already in the pipe
21:54.10Fisker-and i keep owning him because all he talks about are non-existant domains
21:54.23|Pixel|2.3.1 was left "in case of" a major hotfix to push
21:54.45KirkburnSounds like 2.0.2
21:54.45Fisker-this is actually a standard procedure now apparently
21:55.01Fisker-moar liek
21:55.01foxlitWhy not rename 2.3.2 if it had to be pushed?
21:55.03Fisker-he just forgot
21:55.04|Pixel|Fisker-: such as ? :)
21:55.10Fisker-*** can't find Non-existent domain
21:55.25|Pixel|foxlit: because it's more pain to rename a patch than just leaving a blank
21:55.30|Pixel|just like in the old "BASIC" days
21:55.36|Pixel|10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
21:55.38|Pixel|20 GOTO 10
21:55.45|Pixel|why did we leave holes in the numbering ? :)
21:56.11Fisker-i just thought it couldn't handle 1-9 :P
21:56.15Fisker-only 10-20-30 etc.
21:56.54Adyskirk help me =/
21:56.56Fisker-it made better sense anyways
21:57.12Adystheres a huge hole
21:57.21Adysi got the patchlist but im lazy :p
21:58.23*** join/#wowwiki Soby (n=privacy@
21:58.36Sobyi need a little help with macros people
21:58.40Sobycan anyone help me out here?
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21:59.08KirkburnThis may be of interest Adys -
21:59.48Fisker-can't wait for WotLK though
21:59.57Fisker-or SC2 for that matter
22:00.06KirkburnOr your mom
22:00.07AdysKirkburn: is it accurate?
22:00.09Fisker-especially not now when they've added support for DotA
22:00.14KirkburnAdys, yup
22:00.21Fisker-my mom is definitely worth waiting for
22:00.23foxlit[[Macro]] sucks, etc
22:00.24[NewsBot]foxlit meant:
22:00.25Adyskk then update it for me :P
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22:01.47Fisker-btw Adys
22:01.59Fisker-i think he's like postponed the "leak" of the client for like 3 weeks now
22:02.26Fisker-would be funny if they believed him when it happens to be out for like the 1 billionth delay
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22:04.07Fisker-Blizzard needs to get their games on steam btw
22:04.11Fisker-that would be ultimately awesome
22:04.16PolarinaFisker-: NO!
22:04.44PolarinaNOT ON STEAM!!!
22:04.48|Pixel|blizzard would never get their games on steam
22:04.56Fisker-probably not :(
22:05.01Fisker-they're doing very well without
22:05.04|Pixel|blizzard's way of doing is to reinvent the wheel everytime
22:05.12|Pixel|so instead of putting their games on steam
22:05.13Fisker-also i'm not sure vivendi is that excited about it either
22:05.19|Pixel|they'd develop their own instead
22:06.30Fisker-just have to wait for Valve to take over the market, Microsoft style
22:06.41|Pixel|ha ha ha
22:07.08|Pixel|first I'm waiting to see TF2 on PS3, then we'll talk :P
22:07.29Fisker-you have a PS3? :(
22:07.34Adyswth would be the point of having blizzard games on steam?
22:07.38|Pixel|of course
22:07.44Fisker-Adys digital download
22:07.44|Pixel|Adys: starcraft2 on steam
22:07.53PolarinaFisker-: Computers are digital!
22:07.56foxlit and so on
22:08.02Fisker-it had to sound cool Polarina
22:09.00Fisker-anyways that's kind of the thing that was annoying with
22:09.08Fisker-kept getting my keys lost, my accounts deleted and what not
22:09.15Fisker-Need single-signon please
22:09.23Fisker-with keys associated
22:09.27|Pixel|wait and see
22:10.23|Pixel|can wait some time :)
22:15.46Fisker-think i needs some sleepz
22:16.04Fisker-new futurama = win btw
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22:29.37Hobinheimhappy thanksgiving everybody
22:30.24Sandwichman2448Happy Thanksgiving to you too Hob!
22:30.43Sky2042_afkoh, skit
22:31.24zealnn all
22:31.33[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Upcoming Hunter changes -
22:38.46Sandwichman2448 ?
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22:40.00Sky2042_afkkill it.
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23:03.32[NewsBot]WoW Insider: Shaman changes in 2.3.2 -
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23:08.14Dottedi want all my games on steam tbh
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23:10.32Dottedthose i buy anyways
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23:25.47[NewsBot]BlizzPlanet: Wow Comic Book Pre-Orders Follow Up -
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23:39.13Arcane_NHis there a good place for a lvl 23 alliance hunter to tame a turtle?
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23:47.07Bagginswhmm for people who have played draenei what is the name of the draenei's holy light organization?
23:47.27BagginswI mean its equivalent to the Church of the HOly Light
23:49.44pcjhand of argus?
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23:51.33BagginswYa I think that's it
23:56.02Bagginswok so if hand of argus has more ties to the paladins, what about priests?
23:58.28BagginswHand of Argus seems to be more the equivalent to the Silver Hand

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