IRC log for #wowwiki on 20070403

00:04.50*** join/#wowwiki schlort (
00:06.54*** join/#wowwiki Kitan (
00:07.43Kitanis kirkburn around?
00:08.49Kitancan i get KitanBot flagged as a bot please?
00:20.01Adysi think kirk is sleeping
00:22.08Bleeteryup, his nick ain't Kirkburn|afk, so he's afk ;)
00:28.25AdysKirkburn: beep
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00:47.05Kitanso I should wait then Adys?
00:47.16Adysno other solution :P
00:47.27Kitanoh ok... wasn't sure if he was the only one who could update it or not :)
00:47.32KitanI have to finish the threading anyway
00:47.43Adysaye, him and fandy
00:47.46Adysbut fandy's inactive
00:48.33Kitanwhile I have you hear then
00:48.35Kitanhere rather
00:48.45Kitanis there a special page that lists all the pages that use a template?
00:52.53AdysWhatlinksthere does that
00:53.04Adyslook for "(inclusion)"
00:53.16*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
00:53.21Adysbtw if im not answering just say my nick
00:53.30Kitancan I spam it annoyingly?
00:53.39Kitanare you using xchat as well?
00:54.21KitanI am close to letting it go lose.  The implementation allows for me to just work on the wiki text updates without messing with the crawler
00:54.34Kitanlose == Loose
00:54.35Adyswait for it to be flagged as bot
00:54.42KitanI will
00:54.44Kitanof course. :)
00:54.58KitanI still want to run it on it's sandbox to be sure that it ignores pages as specified etc etc
00:55.29Adysbtw if you feel like it you can publish the source code of your bot somewhere
00:55.32Adysyou dont have to ofc
00:55.57Adysits seriously nice having people willing to work out this stuff btw
00:56.00Kitanthe way it is written I could drop the .Net assemblies down and then others can just write their own .Net assemblies
00:56.01Adysgets stuff done MUCH faster
00:56.16KitanI will put it all on my Bot page when I get it where I want
00:56.23Kitanthen you all can decide if you want to release it that way
00:57.25Kitanhaving problems getting to wowwiki
00:57.25Adysoh well
00:57.25Adysbtw kitan
00:57.26AdysEU or US?
00:57.34Adysim off to bed then
00:57.38Kitanok later
00:57.38Adysill fix the rest tmorrow
00:57.41Adysnn peeps
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02:36.58winkillerargh., slowwiki again
02:37.04winkillerevery 4th reload yields a page
02:37.06winkillerdamn americans
03:03.08winkillerany admin here?
03:03.22winkillerthere's a German server "Festung der Stürme"
03:03.28winkillerhow should it be called?
03:03.47winkillerI see: Confrerie_du_Thorium as pagename for Confrérie
03:04.01winkillerbut Sturme is not exactly possible
03:08.27winkillerI called the link Festung_der_Stuerme for now
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08:59.37AdysKirkburn|afk: !
08:59.45AdysWhat is?
09:00.00Kirkburn|afkNothing, just got pinged a lot last night apparently
09:00.07Adysah aye
09:00.12AdysKitan wanted his bot promoted
09:00.19AdysKitanBot i think
09:00.25Kirkburn|afkChecked it out?
09:02.51Kirkburn|afkShall want to see it in action first :)
09:03.16AdysHe was testing out stuff in sandbox, i told him to wait for the bot tag to do the edit stuff
09:03.43Kirkburn|afkI had a look at the sandbox stuff, not seeing exactly what it should be doing tbh
09:04.03Kirkburn|afkFixing quality template?
09:04.15Adysthink so
09:04.29Kirkburn|afkWill wait until I can talk to him here
09:04.36Adysunrelated, but how do i align something to the right with <span> ?
09:04.57Kirkburn|afktext-align:right I think
09:05.12Adys(even tho I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TA STANDS FOR but whatever)
09:06.38Adys wanted to move the contribs link to the right
09:07.39Kirkburn|afkAh probably easiest there would to float:right
09:08.04Kirkburn|afkand float the rest of the line left
09:09.13Adyslike now?
09:09.18Kirkburn|afkThe reason why align:right won't work is because the span has nothing to align:right too. Atm that span is just like a box around the text [contrib]. If the box had a big width, /then/ it would go to the right of that box.
09:09.52Adysi see
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09:32.48*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Teomyr] by Adys
09:34.34Kirkburn|afkHaving posted in the SoL community for a few days, they have some pretty interesting discussions
09:37.23Kirkburn|afk(SoL = Scrolls of Lore)
09:43.34*** join/#wowwiki ben___ (
09:44.46Adysthey do
09:44.53Adysand they also got some pretty "weird" members
09:45.01Kirkburn|afkheh, yeah
09:45.14Adysa vocal minority
09:52.12Adysbtw Kirkburn|afk
09:52.35Adys - Hobinbot moved all the Template:Spell to Spell:
09:53.13AdysWe gonna have to get the tooltipcss thing sorted
09:57.14AdysDid you know it of the day..
09:57.46Adysto have the maximum of slots currently disponible in game, you would need 11 20-slotters
09:57.56Adysthe only 20-slotter in game is the primal mooncloth bag
09:58.12Adysto make one, you need 4 netherweb spider silk and 8 primal mooncloth
09:58.39AdysTo make one primal mooncloth, you need 1 bolt of imbued netherweave, 1 primal life, 1 primal water
09:59.20AdysTo make one bolt of imbued netherweave you need 3 bolts of netherweave and 2 arcane dust
09:59.36Adysto make 1 bolt of netherweave you need 6 netherweave cloth
09:59.45Adysthe primal mooncloth transmute is on a 4 days cooldown
09:59.52AdysSo in short...
10:00.19JunkHead-WorkI'm just gonna give a tailor friend a whole bunch of netherweave and have him make me some 16 slot bags.
10:00.48Adysyou would need 110 motes of life, 110 motes of water, 220 arcane dust, 1980 netherweave cloth and 352 days worth of cooldown
10:02.52AdysOh and 44 netherweb spider silk
10:03.52AdysNo wait
10:04.20winkillerisn't there a page of world first kills, etc?
10:04.26Adyswait that cant be right..;
10:04.30Adysno clue, winkiller
10:04.50winkillercan't find anything erxcept on boss pages
10:06.05winkillermay I point anyone to
10:14.48Kirkburn|afkRedirects are fine
10:15.10Kirkburn|afkThe name should be that which germans will type
10:15.30Kirkburn|afk(same for french stuff)
10:16.17Kirkburn|afkIf someone wants to add that, I'm off to buy some breakfast
10:17.27winkillerok. will fix then
10:34.09winkilleroh, another one: there's'goro_Europe - but it should be Un'Goro - according to Bliozzards website
10:34.31winkillershould I redirect it to the new one and copy content over?
10:35.56*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (
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10:38.39Adyshow you mean winkiller
10:38.49Adysit is un'goro
10:38.51winkillerthe article is incorrectly named
10:39.05winkillerBlizzards Realm Page says Un'Goro
10:39.15AdysI don't know about this
10:39.25Adysis there a Zul'Gurub/Zul'Farrak or something realm around?
10:39.50AdysI think it should be Un'Goro aye
10:40.05winkillerwell Vek'lor is the right spelling
10:40.09winkillerand so is Kel'Thuzad
10:40.15winkillerdepends on the name :)
10:40.18JunkHead-WorkList of servers.
10:40.24*** topic/#wowwiki by Kirkburn -> Channel info: | RC list: | UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge | 2.0.12 notes: | RIP MeoWWiki. :(
10:40.31winkillerI prefer :)
10:40.56Adys - whats the source?
10:40.58KirkburnUse the in-game list name :)
10:41.09KirkburnWhat's the source?
10:41.18Adysoh, right
10:41.52KirkburnIt's still on
10:43.37Adys aye found it
10:43.47KirkburnGod you're slow :)
10:44.09KirkburnTo the shops!
10:46.36Adys talk about rc spam
10:46.54Adysthis guy managed within 3 hours 60 edits on the *same* page :/
10:48.51Teomyrand it's so... informative
10:49.19Adysaint it
10:49.59Teomyrhow can you do so many changes to 10 lines of wiki markup?
10:50.11AdysAnd still have a half broken page :P
10:51.18Adysthe difference beetween the first and last edit
10:51.26Adysit took him 50 edits to do that change, come on.
10:51.38Adysseriously, what the hell
10:59.00Kowimaybe he doesnt know how to preview the page :p
11:00.24AdysLol, techsupport is being very strict and ordered
11:00.29Adyscheck the stickies
11:02.33Kirkburn|afk"______End of stickies_____"
11:06.58*** join/#wowwiki Bibi (
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11:08.02*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso] by Adys
11:12.19winkillerI guess there's no server boilerplate?
11:12.42winkillerno that they add servers on a daily basis
11:20.35winkillerwoohoo, finished!
11:20.53winkiller2 battlegroups incl. server pages and redirects for non-ascii
11:20.59*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=amro@
11:22.49JunkHead-WorkAnyone ever have this problem? You go looking at players' UI screenshots for ideas, and never seen anything you like? Or more specifically, nothing as nice as what you already have?
11:23.02winkillerlol, all the time, yea
11:23.16JunkHead-WorkIt's like... I'd like to change mine up a bit.
11:23.29JunkHead-WorkAnd I saw a couple things in various screenshots I'd like to see if I can do.
11:23.34JunkHead-WorkBut it's nothing major.
11:24.24JunkHead-WorkAnd 80% of the time, you see someone's UI and think, "How the hell do they play with that?"
11:25.03JunkHead-WorkFine. 90 %. So much for being lenient.
11:25.29JunkHead-WorkLenient... Leniant?
11:25.37winkiller160 edits, and 43 of them today. wth
11:25.41winkillerlenient, yea
11:25.46JunkHead-WorkOk cool.
11:25.57winkillerwell, can't help you :) I'm changing mine every fewmonths
11:26.17JunkHead-WorkI like how some have thier group members in the lower left hand corner.
11:26.23JunkHead-WorkAs opposed to top left.
11:26.30winkilleralso done that recently
11:26.52Adysanyone ever had this problem?
11:26.53JunkHead-WorkAnd since Lower lef tis where my raid members go, and being in a raid hides party.. that'd work out great.
11:26.55winkillerI have no clue how I could play 18 months with portraits left top not, middle vbottom
11:27.59JunkHead-WorkAdys - No.
11:28.33Adysive been trying since months to find someone who had something similar
11:28.49Adysyet im sure blizzard knows about it because it quite changed during every patch released
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11:37.57KirkburnAdys, what drivers are you using?
11:38.08*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Teomyr_] by Adys
11:38.13Adysim not really sure :P
11:38.45Adyslets see the comp
11:39.01KirkburnI'm sure I asked this before anyway
11:39.13KirkburnWhat gfx card do you have again?
11:39.14AdysIntel Core2 CPU 6600 2.40GHz, 1gb RAM
11:39.19Calmcacilblizzard should make armory a little... smoother
11:39.22AdysGraphic card Sapphire radeon X1600 XT
11:39.29Adysno kidding Calmcacil
11:39.35KirkburnWhen did you last update your ATi drivers?
11:39.44Calmcacilworks smoothly in Firefox tho
11:39.49Adystheir whole website is very slow
11:39.57KirkburnIE doesn't have the best rendering engine atm
11:39.57AdysKirkburn: couple of weeks ago
11:40.00Calmcacilwould be cool with a forum signature thingie together with armory
11:40.09Adysyou can do that
11:40.20Adyseverything is in the xmls
11:40.42Calmcacil:P easier then :p
11:41.36Calmcacili want like a small picture with a little info and i think that wouldnt hurt blizzard to add :P
11:42.19JunkHead-WorkThere is already a sig generator for armory links.
11:42.29Calmcacil:o where
11:42.39JunkHead-WorkHmm... Let me see if I can find where ti wa.s
11:44.44JunkHead-WorkNot sure if that's what you'd want.
11:46.32JunkHead-Workor this maybe.
11:50.06*** join/#wowwiki Adys (
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11:59.00Adysan original hacker
11:59.04Adystrol from my account if possible.
12:03.20JunkHead-WorkWhy is it that Australians seem to complain every single tuesday about downtime like it's never happened before?
12:03.42Bibibecause that's the only thing they have to do, it's prime time.
12:03.58JunkHead-WorkI understand that the timing sucks for them.
12:04.12JunkHead-WorkBut why do they act as if it hasn't been like this for over a year?
12:04.18JunkHead-WorkLike.. they just now noticed?
12:04.20BibiHope my friend ! Hope !
12:04.39Bibichances to change it are higher if you keep crying about it
12:05.08JunkHead-WorkI just wish there was button beside each post in the forums.
12:05.25JunkHead-WorkAnd if you pushed that button, that person got electrocuted or something.
12:05.29*** join/#wowwiki Royal (
12:05.59Bibiit would kill too many community managers. :/
12:06.17JunkHead-WorkIf you wanna make an omelet....
12:06.29Bibiyou need mushrooms.
12:06.32amroyou'll have to kill CMs
12:06.43JunkHead-WorkAnd the forums are crawling with fungus.
12:07.14amromore importantly, I wish there was a button you could use to electrocute anyone
12:07.31amroover the internet
12:07.48JunkHead-WorkThat would be handy.
12:08.25BibiError loading stylesheet: (null)
12:08.34BibiBlizzard Europe really needs money :/
12:08.52amroi think money is the last thing they really 'need' right now
12:09.15amromoney tends to come easily when you run the most popular MMORPG in the world
12:09.17BibiYou always need money.
12:09.26Bibi always !
12:11.33BleeterKirkburn: you gotta see :P
12:16.04KirkburnBibi, is that PitBull?
12:16.31KirkburnBleeter, I often check the cat websites for the new ones, gotta love that one though :)
12:17.03BibiKirkburn : Pitbull with nearly no changes to the default settings yeah :p
12:17.30KirkburnMethinks I may have to switch to it, especially since ag has essentially given his approval
12:18.24Bibiwell it looks nice, but i didn't have time to tweak it
12:18.46Bibibut you can do whatever you want with it
12:19.29KirkburnDid you use agUF before?
12:21.14*** join/#wowwiki Kaso| (
12:22.08Bibiyes a little, but i didn't play that much since BC
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12:23.48JunkHead-WorkI really like the way AG UF looks.
12:23.59JunkHead-WorkThe appearance is a lot nicer than X-Perl.
12:24.14JunkHead-WorkI will download it on my second PC to see how I like it.
12:25.52JunkHead-WorkDoes AG_UF come with Raid features and such like X-Perl does?
12:28.47KirkburnNot sure
12:28.47KirkburnPitBull is very similar to agUF and is currently under heavy development
12:30.29JunkHead-WorkI just like how X-perl has everything all in one.
12:30.40JunkHead-WorkI prefer it's raid frames to others.
12:44.20KirkburnYay! Freelander is working on my Vista install
12:50.20Adyshunter soloing azuregos, no kiting :/
12:50.43*** join/#wowwiki Mikk (
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12:50.57AdysLo mikk :)
12:51.03MikkHullo =)
12:51.26*** mode/#wowwiki [+v Kaso|] by Adys
12:54.23KirkburnJesus H Christ!
12:54.40KirkburnMeow meow :)
12:54.49Mikkok umm i'm gonna set you as primary contact in chanserv now
12:54.58Mikki have no idea if i'm killing my own access by doing that tho =)
12:55.05KirkburnMe neither
12:55.10KirkburnBut you're never here anyway :(
12:55.31KirkburnStill tanking Kara?
12:55.38KirkburnSorry, I mean, Catazhan
12:55.45Mikkoh hrm.. you're primary now
12:55.53Mikkbut it complains that i can't set the alternate to myself
12:56.00Mikkmust have some sort of lock to me still? o.O
12:56.07Mikkok hrm who do i set the alternate to
12:56.17MikkMs. Cat here? =)
12:56.50Adys<- not much clue about irc stuff sorry :/
12:58.24KirkburnWeird, so it says it needs contact access
12:58.24MikkAnd yeah, I r tanking shit all over the place... Tho i feel a bit shafted by blizz... Suddenly warriors have more HP than bears, and nearly the same armor (or near enough to not make a difference).  And druids STILL don't have a way to avoid crushing blows.
12:58.33Mikk"identify #wowwiki"
12:58.36KirkburnExcept according to the info, I'm the contact
12:58.55KirkburnThat worked :)
12:59.03Mikkthere's an optional password behind there too but i never set one
12:59.15Mikki just let it work off of nickserv auth
12:59.40KirkburnMikk, what kind of gear you got?
12:59.59MikkMostly blues with shitloads of stam and agi on it
13:00.11Mikk11k something unbuffed health, 40% unbuffed dodge... 17.5k armor
13:00.42KirkburnWho else is to be added, I've done Kaso and Teomyr
13:00.49MikkCan get dodge up to 57% something with pots, food, kings n totumz :>
13:01.04Adysinfobot? =P
13:01.17Adysthats it methink
13:01.35Bibioh, Kirkburn is the one making my mIRC sound going crazy.
13:01.38Adysah and btw
13:01.45AdysHob is not auto OP'd i think
13:01.54KirkburnHe is, he just doesn't identify
13:02.01Adysha k
13:02.08KirkburnMikk, wow
13:02.19Adysas druid the 57% dodge?
13:02.19MikkThen i flip the zomgdodge trinket on and hit 72% dodge for 15 seconds
13:02.20MikkI r Neo
13:02.23MikkYeah adys
13:02.28AdysNice lol
13:03.12MikkBut.. yeah.. still get crushed to hell n back by hardhitters like Maul'gar
13:03.23MikkNo way in hell to survive a 10k crush + a 10k special attack
13:03.37KirkburnSo how long until you get bored and come back to the wiki? :P
13:03.42Mikkgood question ;)
13:04.01Mikkobviously i'm a little bored already cause i've started poking around in stuff again
13:04.17Bleeterwtf is this? op central? i'm real afraid now :-s :P
13:04.19KirkburnDid you like my little April Fools then?
13:04.31KirkburnDid my level changes spam the channel?
13:04.31Mikkhehe yeah
13:04.51KirkburnYeah, I recall turning that option on a long time ago :)
13:05.18KirkburnDid you see the extra prank I made on Sunday?
13:05.49KirkburnLooking for a link
13:06.38KirkburnMikk, atm, the main thing to do is the FA stuff. Policies and guidelines are all good, got several bots around
13:07.06KirkburnAnd ner, ner I'm a bureaucrat
13:07.46KirkburnHow far are you attuned now?
13:08.26KirkburnAha, here it is -
13:09.00*** join/#wowwiki winkiller ( [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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13:10.05MikkKirkburn: FA stuff?
13:10.13Mikk(Sorry. FA=First Aid for me atm)
13:10.23KirkburnFeatured Article of course
13:10.28MikkAh =)
13:10.54MikkWell auerhmm tbh i'm not gonna get myself involved in that bit
13:10.58KirkburnCan't keep it as Garona for ever :P
13:11.08MikkMight start poking around more with API stuff again
13:11.14KirkburnNah, s'fine. Good to see you at least :)
13:11.27KirkburnAlexa ranks us 2,220 now
13:11.56KirkburnWay above Memory Alpha (which continues to surprise me)
13:12.31MikkCause, well, one thing I've realized about myself and wiki editing. I just cannot stand editing hotly contended topics.  The amount of ninnies that pop up and change back to something that's been revered away from 10 times makes me want to scream.
13:12.38MikkN i can't be arsed with all that aggravation =P
13:12.45KirkburnSame, yeah
13:13.02KirkburnThat's why I just do the Main Page ;)
13:14.11MikkAnd re: your comment earlier... OF COURSE all the policies n stuff is good after all teh bloody work i put into them :>
13:14.24Mikk*brag brag*
13:14.53MikkAnyway... we didn't get CSS access yet did we?
13:15.29Bleeterhah @ gullible
13:21.02*** join/#wowwiki Kowi (i=erahain@
13:22.15KirkburnMikk, nope, no access yet :)
13:22.44Mikki r not surprised
13:22.55Mikkcan't see why he can't just bloody give us ftp access to that folder or something
13:22.57Mikk5 minutes job
13:23.46KirkburnWe're able to pester sancus for stuff though :P
13:23.56Mikkwho's he? =)
13:24.23Kirkburnvlad's friend and co-worker at Mozilla
13:24.24BleeterKirkburn: guild naming policy needs resolution
13:24.24AdysA frend of rustak
13:25.52Mikkprod him for ftp access? =)
13:26.25AdysWell it <would> be nice to get the css working
13:26.50MikkAye I RE-fixed a bunch of ugly stuff .. oh... in september or something?
13:27.02Mikkshortly after the upgrade anyway
13:27.14AdysSeen the new Mediawiki:Noarticletext ?
13:27.19MikkMailed Vlad the changes twice. N poked him a few times :-P
13:27.39Mikkaye it's very purdy
13:27.50Adysit bugs out on certain occasions
13:28.19Adysmostly on complex page names (Namespace:Blah/Blablah) and "deleted" stuff (undelete x edits)
13:28.19KirkburnAdys, it because the pages show stuff about deleted edits for admins
13:28.27Adysbut not only that
13:28.38Adysim sure ive seen it on Subpages too
13:28.40KirkburnOh yeah, subarticles too
13:28.52KirkburnNot much we can do ... without CSS access :P
13:29.15Mikkwhy does it have to be so funky with positioning btw?
13:29.34AdysIE7 problems, iirc
13:29.41*** join/#wowwiki GUest10202 (
13:30.08Mikkcause when i try to edit noarticletext i can't even see the first few lines of the editbox :>
13:30.34Adysdivs ftw
13:30.44KirkburnIf you can improve it, please do :)
13:31.06Adysyou think we could do something similar with preferences? :/
13:31.08Kirkburniirc, it just attempts to cover the white box
13:31.20KirkburnNah, not without CSS
13:32.05Mikkyeah, i've already fixed the preferences box
13:32.12Mikkthat's one of the things i mailed
13:34.52*** join/#wowwiki Shirik|Ecole (n=nospam@
13:45.51Bibithis is probably a stupid question but ... Priests of Baa'ri , in your opinion, fake or not ? ^^
13:49.46MikkSeems legit
13:50.07BibiI'm tempted to make a news about it but Blizzard mentioning it in the same news as the BT attunement really scares me
13:50.53Mikktrue dat :>
13:52.15Mikkerr wtf
13:52.17MikkHOLY resistance?
13:52.24BibiIt's been in the game for ever
13:52.55Mikkwhich has?
13:53.04BibiNothing, but it's in the API
13:53.18Mikkah, well, yeah
13:53.31Mikkwould be a pissy API if it didn't allow the possibility of a change in game mechanics
13:53.34amroMikk, is there any hope of seeing WoWBench updated?
13:53.54sancusholy resistance doesnt do anything :p
13:54.01sancusthe faction might be real, items are fake
13:54.16Bibiwhy ? nothing seems overpowered
13:54.49Mikkamro: good question >.<
13:54.49KirkburnThe holy resistance mechanic was removed a long time ago, hence the doubt
13:54.59sancusbecause holy resistance doesn't do anything and it would be a pointless fundamental game mechanic change that would deeply piss off paladins and priests for no good reason
13:55.14Mikkamro: problem is, i haven't really done much coding since 2.0 was released, so i basically don't know where to begin with all the new button stuff that got added
13:55.23Mikkthen again i don't necessarily have to get that done do i
13:55.39Bibisancus : how ? do you expect a lot of people using ... holy resistance gear in PvP ?
13:55.41sancus... also the faction is linked off of an april fool's attunement post
13:55.48amroMikk: same here, I wanted to try and update it but I was clueless where to start
13:56.09Bibithe fact that it's linked to an april fool's post (only on wow-europe tho) is the only problem
13:56.32sancusit's not "because people would use it in pvp", it's the principle
13:56.43sancusholy damage is unaffected by resists
13:56.52Mikknot true
13:56.56Mikkit's affected plenty
13:56.59sancusIt would require large-scale game mechanics change to fix it
13:57.01Mikkthe idea is that there shouldn't be any holy resists
13:57.02sancusno it isn't
13:57.04Mikkyes it is
13:57.15amroyeah you can resist holy damage, but not because of holy resistance
13:57.19Mikkthere's been bugs where e.g. fel hunter pets have gotten holy resists from "+ resists to ALL"
13:57.20sancusNo it's not
13:57.32Mikkthat have subsequently gotten fixed
13:57.34sancusThat's entirely beside the point
13:57.39sancusIt's not SUPPOSED to be resisted
13:57.42Mikkahh yeah
13:57.45Mikkabsolutely true
13:57.57sancusIF it did become resisted
13:57.57sancusit would be a huge nerf to all holy damage spells in the game
13:58.06Mikkthe only "resist" that should happen with holy damage is level-based resists (aka "misses")
13:58.12Mikkthat's the idea
13:58.23amroyes, that's what I was thinking of
13:58.42sancusIt would take extraordinary evidence to claim that they're going to nerf holy damage spells for the sake of a meaningless faction that was posted on april fool's
13:58.42Mikkbut, yeah, there's been bugs where things have actually gotten +holyresist, and it's worked like resists usually do :>
13:58.44sancusthere's no such evidence
13:59.08sancuswhy would there even be holy damage in BT?
13:59.13Mikkso... that article?
13:59.19Mikkapril fool's or not?
13:59.24Bibisancus : why not ?
13:59.52Mikkmm true.. holy damage in bloody kharazan
14:00.00Mikknot exactly the place where you expect to find it
14:00.03Bibiit wouldn't be the first time
14:00.04Mikkbut still
14:00.13sancusNo it wouldn't be the first time they did something random
14:00.20Bibi"OMG ! SHADOW RESISTANCE GEAR IN SILITHUS ! Naxxramas will need tons of Shadow resist !"
14:00.21Mikksmells like an april fool's joke with +holyresist items yeah
14:00.27sancusbut I still find it absurd that we're arguing over something that is obviously false, so I'm going to do something productive :P
14:01.23*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (
14:01.23sancusI can replace some CSS if you guys want, I'll ask vlad first if there's some reason he's putting it off though
14:02.11Bibii think i'll write my news just for people like you sancus, trying to break my dreams is evil. :(
14:02.26Mikksancus: the reason he's been putting it off is because he's been meaning to give us css access. which ain't happening :-P
14:02.31Mikkbut yeah do ask him ;)
14:02.45sancusyeah it probably won't happen
14:08.05*** join/#wowwiki tmokros (
14:08.08*** join/#wowwiki tmokros (
14:11.15KirkburnDoesn't he trust me enough yet? :P
14:11.28Bleeterit's me that he phearz11!!onewon@
14:12.15sancushaving ftp enabled on the server at all is a (minor) security risk
14:17.52Tuqui-tuquiI broke 1000 gold last night! \o/
14:18.01Tuqui-tuquinow I have 4k to go >.>
14:19.16*** join/#wowwiki Dragofix (
14:19.43BleeterAdys: congratulations to your countrymen breaking the rail speed record :)
14:20.04sancusTuqui: lol
14:23.10BibiI just killed the credibility of my website !
14:23.28Bibifeel free to laugh.
14:42.52KirkburnI love flying around Liberty System
14:43.49KirkburnY'know, it's hard to keep track of who owns which websites these days, there's so many on here :)
14:44.10*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (
14:46.01KirkburnHey Hobinheim|work
14:47.27Hobinheim|workwiki still kinda ehh
14:47.48Hobinheim|workalready got a trolll =(
14:47.53Hobinheim|workso early in the morning
14:48.17Hobinheim|workhow are you Kirkburn?
14:48.31KirkburnI love how, in Freelancer, the world doesn't revolve around you - e.g. I have to wait in a holding pattern to get on a space station
14:48.31Hobinheim|worki'm so excited. i checked out my apt again last night and i might be moving in as soon as this weekend
14:48.43KirkburnVery soon to be 22
14:49.04Hobinheim|workedison trent?
14:49.13Hobinheim|workhah you're 21 yo?
14:49.18KirkburnEdison Trent ftw
14:49.24Hobinheim|workhow ARE you doing
14:50.19Mikk21? pup =p
14:50.19KirkburnI've just started playing Freelancer again, suddenly it's working in Vista
14:50.34Hobinheim|workoh vista...i should have trusted my gut instinct
14:50.35KirkburnI think the recent compatability update MS released helped matters
14:50.44Hobinheim|workand not install it until it reaches its golden era, like xp is now
14:50.58KirkburnIn a few months it should be there
14:51.02Hobinheim|workgood thing i'm using vista only on my crap box. bad thing i'm only using vista on my crap box
14:51.25KirkburnVista /is/ a better OS than XP, but it needs the support
14:51.30KirkburnMikk, why? :)
14:51.44Mikkcos i don't see the point of paying for the xp upgrade? =P
14:51.46KirkburnPlease tell me it's not cause of the aesthetics
14:52.16KirkburnThat's a better excuse than one of my friends had "Win2K is better than XP" .... riiiight.
14:52.56KirkburnVista Ultimate only cost me £120 anyway
14:53.12MikkThat's a whole year of wow!
14:54.13MikkA pack of smokes is nearly two weeks of wow. But that insight ain't helping :-(
14:55.04sancusI should get vista ultimate to install on my new macbook.. when I buy that
14:56.09sancusthough I should probably check driver support first, haha
14:58.15KirkburnI'm too scared to put Vista on my Dell laptop yet
14:58.23KirkburnPerhaps in two months or so
14:59.23sancusI was going to get an alienware
14:59.32sancusbut its more expensive and osx owns too much
15:01.53Hobinheim|workaudio services and the event log bonked out on my install
15:02.01Hobinheim|workbut that's because i kept turning it off and on while it was installing
15:02.12Hobinheim|workif the same thing happens on a clean install, i think i will have ot give up on vista completely
15:02.50*** join/#wowwiki fag (
15:03.05faghey guys, do you know when WoW will be back up?
15:04.15MikkWoW US i take it? Don't know exactly for your servers since I can't even read their notes... Usually around 10-11 local time.
15:04.20Mikk<- european
15:05.12fagah, ok
15:05.17fagI am a US server, yeah
15:05.23fagon a*
15:05.43*** join/#wowwiki ClydeJr (n=86a3ff0d@
15:06.03Hobinheim|worki thought they do rolling restarts
15:06.07fagit says 3 - 11am PDT, but I am not sure when that is :\
15:06.08Hobinheim|workbtw, fag isn't the best username...
15:06.22fagmy normal one was taken
15:06.33fagnever thought I would need a secondary one
15:07.19Arkanjilanyone know when 11am PDT is?
15:09.26ClydeJrabout 2 hours from now
15:09.58ClydeJractually 3 hours
15:10.09Arkanjilyou sure?
15:10.47Mikk11 + 9 = 20 CEST. ... yeah that's three hours from now.
15:11.18Arkanjil3 hours, thank you
15:11.20Mikk(if you guys are on daylight savings time by now... i forget when the US switches)
15:11.24*** join/#wowwiki Psyker7 (n=Psyker7@
15:11.43ArkanjilI am in England, but I am on an American server
15:11.57ClydeJrI'm in CDT, 2 hours ahead of PDT
15:11.57Hobinheim|workwe already switched
15:12.01Hobinheim|workspring ahead, fall back
15:12.18Arkanjilso it's three hours.. ok, not too bad
15:12.26Mikkwell.. worst case anyway
15:12.29Mikkit'll usually be sooner
15:13.20Arkanjilwhat do they even do during these three hours? ^_^
15:13.39Mikkdatabase cleanup scripts i imagine
15:14.25sancusburn all the server hardware and replace it with fresh, new stuff
15:14.30Mikki wish :>
15:15.04Arkanjilbeh, I should've gone with an EU server :\
15:15.12Mikkbut, yeah, the fact that they've started doing rolling restarts more of late would seem to indicate that they've worked the worst bugs out of their database code
15:17.26KirkburnClydeJr, register with freenode ... I want to set you to autovoice
15:17.53KirkburnArkanjil, England is an awesome place, isn't it :P
15:19.41*** join/#wowwiki Shirik (
15:19.46KirkburnLol -
15:21.12Arkanjilit is an awesome place, yes, sorry for late replt
15:21.13ShirikI don't get it :(
15:22.10ChrisZionKirkburn - I MUST HAVE THAT CARD!
15:22.15Tuqui-tuquiI have a question regardint the cards
15:22.24ChrisZionShoot I have played since release
15:22.25Tuqui-tuquihow hard is it to get a turtle one?
15:22.38ChrisZiongot a 1 in 700 chance to get a booster with one
15:22.47Tuqui-tuqui1 in 700...
15:22.51ChrisZionAbout that
15:22.58ChrisZionI got my Turtle in my 4th booster
15:23.07Tuqui-tuquiwhats a booster -.-
15:23.22ChrisZionOne of the small packs of extras
15:23.52ChrisZionYou got the Starter decks, they are the big boxes
15:24.14ChrisZionand Boosters, the small packets that you use to build new decks and add to yours
15:24.17Tuqui-tuquiand then additional packs are called boosters?
15:24.42Tuqui-tuquiis it expensive to go out and look through the deck for a turtle?
15:24.58ChrisZionYou get the turtle in the boosters
15:25.03ChrisZionnot the decks
15:25.10Tuqui-tuquiso I should just buy booster packs
15:25.11ChrisZioneach booster is around 3 GBP
15:25.17ChrisZionor look on ebay
15:25.26ChrisZionno idea how much they go for
15:25.30Tuqui-tuquimeh... problem with eBay, I might be getting a used card
15:26.17Tuqui-tuquiaverage price for turtle card in eBay is about 120 dollars
15:26.32ChrisZionYea I was just looking
15:27.05ClydeJrKirkburn, I think I'm registered now
15:28.57KirkburnI think you have to log out and in for it to autovoice you now
15:29.01KirkburnNot certain though
15:29.03ChrisZiontype /hop
15:29.14ChrisZionshould do it
15:30.00KirkburnHobinheim|work, identify why don't you :)
15:30.28Hobinheim|workit's so cumbersome
15:30.34Hobinheim|workand i figured i could set trillian to do it automatically
15:30.40Hobinheim|workbut look what i have to do
15:30.41KirkburnSurely you can?
15:30.46*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ
15:30.53*** join/#wowwiki ClydeJr (n=86a3ff0d@
15:31.06*** mode/#wowwiki [+v ClydeJr] by ChanServ
15:31.22KirkburnHobinheim|work, have you linked |work?
15:31.51mxsJamieSI still hasn't learned the alphabet. *groan*
15:32.46Kirkburnmxs, wassup?
15:33.07KirkburnYeah, you can link nicknames together
15:33.12Hobinheim|workhow?! =(
15:33.27mxsKirkburn: already fixed, Jamie just still doesn't really care about alphebetizing Strategy Informer links. I'm waiting for a bump now. :)
15:33.51Kirkburn/msg nickserv link <primary-nick> <your-password>
15:35.02Hobinheimbahh i have to register it?
15:35.12Hobinheimdo they each get a diff password?
15:35.16KirkburnNo, no
15:35.21KirkburnGo back to being Hob|work
15:35.29KirkburnThen do what I wrote above
15:35.35Hobinheim|workit says i need to register it
15:35.54KirkburnRegister it then
15:36.03Kirkburn/msg nickserv register <your-password>
15:36.08KirkburnThen link it
15:36.24Hobinheim|workughh i gotta do that for every pipe name?
15:36.29Hobinheim|worki thought pipe names were like... allowed
15:36.32KirkburnAye, but only once
15:36.40Hobinheim|workwhat if i went somewhere
15:36.50KirkburnThey expire if not used for 60 days
15:37.01Hobinheim|SPAACEnow i'm Hobinheim in SPAAAAAACE
15:41.17mxsoh ! Burning Crusade got released in Taiwan today !
15:41.36Hobinheim|SPAACEuhhh what
15:41.40Hobinheim|SPAACEwhy wouldn't it have been already?
15:41.50mxsChina is still at 1.12.3
15:42.01Hobinheim|SPAACEnone of them got the BC? at all?
15:42.08Hobinheim|SPAACEwow way to cock tease the chinese
15:42.11mxsneither China nor Taiwan had it prior to today
15:42.40mxsand now I have to hunt the files and patchnotes down
15:42.46mxsmy Chinese is RUSTY at best :>
15:43.34Hobinheim|SPAACEwhat's to read
15:43.43Hobinheim|SPAACEit (should) just be an up to date engine, localized in chinese
15:43.50Hobinheim|SPAACEterrible if they went patch by patch
15:44.14mxsmaybe so, but it's a matter of pride to get em onto :)
15:44.39mxshaven't met a locale yet where I was unable to :)
15:45.46mxsthey're apparently going straight to 2.0.9 and title that "Before the Storm"
15:46.00mxswhich would explain why we haven't seen 2.0.9 in the latin locales
15:54.04Hobinheim|SPAACEyou guys into p2p/mp3s?
15:54.44mxsand apparently they translated all the interim patches and their notes as well, just never released them publically
15:54.58mxsP2P, yes, MP3, yes, intersection thereof, no.
15:55.59Shirikmxs_enjoys = P2P xor MP3;
15:57.28mxsShirik: that's too simple a logic. It would imply that I could not play an MP3 while engaging in peer to peer activities. Those CAN coincide on any given timeline, though.
15:57.41Shirikmeh, ok :(
15:58.00mxsBoolean logic can be fun though :P
15:58.13mxsquite fun in combination with temporal logic :)
15:58.21ShirikKirkburn I'm willing to bet you don't even know what an xor is :P
15:58.33KirkburnYou would win that bet :P
15:58.38Hobinheim|SPAACEis there a market for trading pictures with the same ferver that people trade mp3s?
15:58.47mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: yes.
15:58.55Tuqui-tuquiits called pr0n? >.>
15:59.09mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: and depending on what kind of pictures we are talking about, the platform differs :)
15:59.15Hobinheim|SPAACEok, right. but seriously, i've never seen any p2p apps marketed or geared toward pictures
15:59.28mxsbut if you want some datapoints for your market data, go look at usenet.
15:59.44mxsyou have not seen Usenet, then :P
15:59.52Hobinheim|SPAACEi guess not
15:59.55mxsit will show you the deepest abyss of humanity
15:59.58Hobinheim|SPAACEi mean whenever *i* see usenet i see a mess
16:00.06Hobinheim|SPAACEi ahven't seen the properly ran ninja darksides of usenet
16:00.30mxsit takes time. Once you have waded through the filth, you see a clear picture emerge.
16:00.35mxsand it is glowing, it is beautiful.
16:00.38Hobinheim|SPAACEis there a market to trade pictures, peer to peer, in a trusted ring of individuals?
16:00.40mxsQuite possibly illegal in some states.
16:00.46Hobinheim|SPAACEmxs, lol
16:00.57Tuqui-tuquiAccording to Nielsen Soundscan, there were 581 million downloads in 2006 for a growth rate of 54 percent over last year, less than the previous year's growth rate of 163 percent.
16:00.59mxsyes. flickr, facebook, most social networking sites, etc.
16:01.14Hobinheim|SPAACEi dunno i guess i'm just not convincing myself
16:01.22Hobinheim|SPAACEcuz i know i want YOUR mp3s. but do i really want your pictures..
16:01.39mxsdepends on whether I am a good photographer or know pretty girls
16:01.40Hobinheim|SPAACEi have this plan for world domination, see. and it starts with the world's greatest p2p software
16:01.56*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (
16:01.56*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ
16:02.04mxsthe inherent problem with pure P2P software is the lack of previews
16:02.18mxsand pictures really require thumbnails to be properly shared
16:02.38mxsso those social networking sites thrive, but also eat all the bandwidth :)
16:03.13*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub)
16:03.13*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ
16:03.14mxsand people DO crave crappy photos. Just look at all those partypic-sites
16:03.52*** join/#wowwiki Psyker7_ (n=Psyker7@
16:03.52Hobinheim|SPAACEgrrr... i'm stilll not like...
16:03.54Hobinheim|SPAACEFEELIN it...
16:04.11Hobinheim|SPAACEso i guess it would be a glorified P2P publishing thing
16:04.16Hobinheim|SPAACElike a flickr in private
16:04.23Hobinheim|SPAACEor a P2P version of picasa
16:04.33Hobinheim|SPAACEwhich doesn't fit with my original vision, which revolved around music
16:04.43Hobinheim|SPAACEbut people suggested i look into other ofrmats
16:04.50mxsif you don't get how people might like to share (or rather, leech) umpteen tons of porn, I don't know how to help you
16:04.57Hobinheim|SPAACEi know i don't want to do large files, like movies
16:05.28mxsP2P sharing of low-density payloads is not an easy problem to solve
16:05.40mxssince you tend to approach the case where overhead exceeds payload
16:06.18mxsproperly tagged pictures will carry several kilobytes of pure metadata, for instance
16:06.39KirkburnTo Planet Manhattan!
16:07.00mxsoy, random association time ! Manhattan Project.
16:07.22Hobinheim|SPAACEyou lost me at low density paylods
16:07.26KirkburnI just left Fort Bush :)
16:08.45mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: well ... Let's look at why P2P distribution of movies and ISOs works so well ... It's a crapload of data per item, i.e. high density. It's a lot harder to create a scalable centalized server architecture that serves that kind of data to tens of thousands or even millions of people
16:09.19mxswhereas photos, pictures, thumbnails, lend themselves better to that kind of system; the volume is slashed a couple thousandfold
16:09.50Hobinheim|SPAACEwell i sorta want the same thing, but on a smaller scale
16:09.55mxsand it really doesn't matter if you have to transfer, say, 20 kilobytes of metadata for a single movie, whereas 20 kbyte of metadata for a single picture would kind of defeat the purpuse of P2P
16:09.56Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm going for a decentralized angle
16:09.59Hobinheim|SPAACEthink of a ring of people
16:10.09mxsyeah, but what are you trying to accomplish ?
16:10.13Grypheni missed what you are talking about? p2p image sharing?
16:10.17Hobinheim|SPAACEto make file sharing AWESOME!!!!
16:10.21Hobinheim|SPAACEGryphen, yeah
16:10.28mxsthat ring of people can use a centralized server and get more features, and the bandwidth needed is not infeasably high
16:10.30Hobinheim|SPAACEto me, file sharing isn't sexy enough
16:10.36Hobinheim|SPAACEit's already 2007 and it's still too hard to do
16:10.45Hobinheim|SPAACEno, no central server
16:10.47mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: check out for the sexy, you pervert ! :P
16:10.54Hobinheim|SPAACEmayber, architecturally, one of those people in the ring becomes the server
16:10.59Hobinheim|SPAACEbut there is no central server, ever
16:11.03Hobinheim|SPAACEno one to sue, wink wink
16:11.11Kirkburnzomg, I gots teh new shipzor!
16:11.11Hobinheim|SPAACEwait what is that website?
16:11.13Hobinheim|SPAACEis it work safe?
16:11.17mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: my point is that you have a hammer and are trying to make the problem look like a nail, when it's really not
16:11.25mxsno it is not
16:11.28mxsmost definitely not
16:11.29GryphenPixVillage is p2p image sharing, but i havent looked at it im some time
16:11.31Hobinheim|SPAACEwhat is it
16:11.54mxsjust your generic torrent site, but geared towards the seedier side of things
16:13.04mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: in either case though, you can deliver features that are impossible in decentralized P2P environments in a centralized environment, and most users appreciate that kind of usability
16:13.47mxsthus, etc. thrive
16:14.00Hobinheim|SPAACEomg you're like going at lightspeed and i'm not following
16:14.31mxswell. Find a use-case where a P2P picture sharing service is superior to a centralized site hosting them.
16:14.40mxsonce you do, you may have found your niche.
16:15.42mxsfirst we might have to solve the general populace's inability to assign proper metadata to images.
16:16.10mxs'cause without metadata, the most beautiful picture will never be found in the billions of shots of ... uh ... crap.
16:16.33KirkburnI just want bewbs. Why must it be so complicated?
16:16.36mxsfor MP3/music, ID3 was that answer.
16:16.45mxsbut who takes the time to tag pr0n ?
16:16.46Hobinheim|SPAACEmxs, now you're hitting an issue which i'm having trouble googling
16:16.56Hobinheim|SPAACEwhat is the ID3 equivalent for GIFs and jPEGS?
16:17.14Hobinheim|SPAACEand are there any other file format sthat need consdering besdies pictures and music
16:17.17mxsMPEG-7, several bibliothecary standards, and of course EXIF
16:18.02mxsstill images, moving images, audio, audiovisual, text, scanned text (special case of images), sensor data for all manner of stuff
16:18.38mxsthe problem with metadata isn't so much that there are no standards, but that nobody is using them.
16:19.01Gryphenshareaza has metadata and shows previews
16:19.03mxsEven video formats (which mostly HAVE metadata capabilities) are seldomly filled with decent metadata
16:19.08Hobinheim|SPAACEmxs, are you a frequent visitor here? you know so much! and yet i don't recognize your name
16:19.17mxsI lurk. :)
16:19.33mxsthere are channels I lurk in that have nto seen me talk in over 2 years.
16:19.48mxsone of them thinks I'm a bot.
16:19.52mxsquite entertaining, really.
16:19.54Kirkburnlolz, I gots 3 awesome Drails on my Startracker
16:19.59Hobinheim|SPAACEEXIF is all camera data
16:20.01Hobinheim|SPAACEi want like
16:20.07Hobinheim|SPAACEX-MODEL: Jenna Jameson
16:20.29mxsnot that you will find pr0n-people using it
16:20.33Shirikyeah EXIF is for aperature/shutter/EV/model/resolution/etc
16:20.43Shirikyou won't find what it's a picture of in that data
16:20.48Hobinheim|SPAACEbut what file types is it bound to?
16:21.16Hobinheim|SPAACEsee this is making my "fit grand musical vision onto pictures" thing fail
16:21.16mxsand the next thing is the proplem of interoperability ... metadata should not suddenly vanish just because you switch from Picasa to Adobe or such :)
16:21.22Hobinheim|SPAACEit's not even me wanting pictures. maybe that's the problem
16:21.36mxsit's not really bound to fileTYPEs per se
16:21.44mxsjust to files and their content
16:21.51Hobinheim|SPAACEi want a complete analogy. mp3 to id3 as jpeg is to................
16:21.54mxsi.e. you'd store it in extended attributes of your filesystem
16:22.00Hobinheim|SPAACEbleh not what i want
16:22.03Hobinheim|SPAACEhas to be bound to the file
16:22.08mxsit can't be
16:22.12Hobinheim|SPAACEi've htought bout this through and through for anything that resembles mp3s
16:22.17Hobinheim|SPAACEbut not for any other file type
16:22.20mxsyou can't really retroactively change a standardzied file format
16:22.28Hobinheim|SPAACElike if ogg can look, act, and dance like an mp3, that's fine with me
16:22.37mxsuh .. ogg doesn'T
16:22.39Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm not trying to change naything, i just don't know what picture files are capapble of
16:22.44Hobinheim|SPAACEogg odesn't have tagging space?
16:22.46mxsogg uses ogg comments, not id3 tags
16:22.51KirkburnJenna Jameson? *sigh*
16:22.52mxsit does, but a COMPLETELY different format :)
16:22.57Hobinheim|SPAACEbut who cares
16:23.01Hobinheim|SPAACEas long as it can do the same thing
16:23.04Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm fine with that
16:23.05mxsimplementors care :>
16:23.07Hobinheim|SPAACEhooray APIs
16:23.11Hobinheim|SPAACEI"M the implementor, silly
16:23.23ShirikHobinheim|SPAACE: You don't really have a way of storing the information reliably in the file directly, but perhaps using the OS to handle it would work. The problem though is
16:23.30ShirikTransferring information from one computer to another
16:23.33Shirikin that case
16:23.33Hobinheim|SPAACEno, no OS layer
16:23.35mxsI mean, the tagging in Matroska is superior to most audio and movie tagging systems -- but nobody is implementing it :)
16:23.35Hobinheim|SPAACEhas to be the file
16:24.06ShirikThen you have to invent a new format
16:24.06ShirikEven if it's the JPEG format with a few extra bytes
16:24.06Hobinheim|SPAACEno, i'm only going to work with file formats that already do this
16:24.06Kirkburn"Acknowledged. Your request to dock is granted. Proceed to Dock One."
16:24.06ShirikThen you're never going to resolve your problem ><
16:24.06mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: not interoperable.
16:24.18mxsand good luck getting all the pr0n people to switch to your format of choice
16:24.19ShirikKirkburn: ... huh?
16:24.22Hobinheim|SPAACEi feel like we're going around in circles and no one is getting me
16:24.26Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm not asking for anything impossible
16:24.29mxshell, you'll be hard-pressed to find a pr0n-outlet producing JPEG-2000 images
16:24.31Hobinheim|SPAACEif it's impossible, i'm not doing it
16:24.36KirkburnI'm playing Freelancer, nub
16:24.39ShirikIt's not impossible, it's just
16:24.42Shirikyou're trying to do too much
16:24.50Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm not trying anythign! what are you saying!
16:24.59ShirikThere is a solution, but it causes other problems
16:25.08ShirikI.e., use either an OS ADS or a new file format
16:25.12Hobinheim|SPAACEif a JPEG doesn't already support what i'm asking for, i'm not going to shoe-horn some crazy solution on top of it
16:25.15Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm just not going to do it
16:25.20ShirikRight, it doesn't
16:25.23Hobinheim|SPAACEare we still not clear on that...? =(
16:25.33ShirikI thought you were asking how you could get around that :P
16:25.34mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: it's not that it's impossible, but you seem to have a preconceived notion of what your final product will look like ... i.e. "it has to be in the file" vs. "oh, mpeg7-metadata records in a separate source"
16:25.51ShirikNatively, JPEG will not support it.
16:25.53Hobinheim|SPAACEyes, i do have a preconceived notion
16:26.00Hobinheim|SPAACEthat's what i'm gunning for. my notion
16:26.06mxsso, don't put it in the jpeg file. put it in another container.
16:26.08Hobinheim|SPAACEand my notion. is completely file centric
16:26.14Hobinheim|SPAACEno, it has to be self-contained
16:26.16Hobinheim|SPAACEthat's the rule
16:26.18Shirikmxs: That's the point, he wants it to be in the file
16:26.18mxswhich is the wrong notion to have !
16:26.20Hobinheim|SPAACEthe all-governing rule
16:26.31Hobinheim|SPAACEright, that's THE point
16:26.32mxsmake it a ZIP with the picture and the metadata (that is what OpenOffice does)
16:26.34Hobinheim|SPAACEfor this project
16:26.37Hobinheim|SPAACEthat's the ENTIRE point
16:26.49mxsyou can serialize ANYTHING into a "file"
16:26.57Shirikthat's too hard
16:27.02ShirikI'd be lazy and just append bytes :P
16:27.03Hobinheim|SPAACEhullo =P
16:27.05mxssince that file can just be a container for other files :)
16:27.32Shirikjpeg has a header that indicates the file size, so you should just be able to write random data to the end
16:27.46Shirikto store whatever extra information you want
16:27.50mxsid3 is a part of the mpeg3 file format. You could just do a song.mp3z file format that is a zip containing the mp3 frames in an mp3 data stream and metadata in a metadata.txt. Or, hell, mp4-files with metadata-streams
16:28.28mxsShirik: which will be removed by anything that, say, rotates the image :)
16:28.36Shirikyes it would
16:28.47Hobinheim|SPAACEagain, not trying to shoehorn crazy solutions
16:28.49mxswhich is not an uncommon operation
16:28.56Hobinheim|SPAACEi want to totally work within the bounds of what already exists
16:28.59ShirikIt might also crash
16:29.09mxsHobinheim|SPAACE: so you don'T want to create anything new ?
16:29.12Shirikbuffer overflow
16:29.20mxsShirik: that would be a bad parser indeed
16:29.31Hobinheim|SPAACEno, no new stuff
16:29.32mxsShirik: if you find an error like that, let me know -- easy to exploit on a massive scale.
16:29.36Hobinheim|SPAACEjust takin care of business
16:29.38Shirikit would
16:29.39mxsHeck, ImageMagick had an error like that :)
16:29.43Hobinheim|SPAACEcupcake to whoever recognizes what i just said!
16:30.11ShirikI want a cupcake :(
16:30.19Hobinheim|SPAACE(say the simpsons)
16:30.24mxsis the cupcake anthromorph, and is she cute ?
16:31.15ShirikI'd eat it either way
16:31.40mxswe have a winner !
16:33.19mxsI should hire those goldfarmer sweatshops to put meaningful metadata on my pr0n-collection
16:33.35ShirikOk, so Hobinheim|SPAACE
16:33.38Shirikwhat we've established
16:34.10ShirikYou want a way to store picture information (title, author, etc.) in a picture, using currently available technologies, transferrable between computers, stored completely in the file, and not system-dependent
16:34.41Hobinheim|SPAACEShirik, bingo!
16:34.50Hobinheim|SPAACEi kinda already sorta gave up on it though =P
16:34.53Shiriknot gonna happen
16:34.59Hobinheim|SPAACEcuz what format is as populra as JPG
16:35.17Shiriktbh I hate jpegs
16:35.20mxsthere is some nice commentary on that on
16:35.46KirkburnLol, go me ... I apparently just bought THE worst ship in Freelancer
16:35.59mxsjpegs are quite nice actually ... not too resource hungry and decent compression, with graceful degradation
16:36.21mxsthough hardly state of the art anymore, either
16:36.22ShirikI'm just picky about quality, and usually I'm working with stuff relying on accurate pictures
16:36.30Shirikso I prefer PNGs
16:36.46mxsyeah, I absolutely HATE idiots who use jpegs at, say, 7 for prepress-work
16:36.48Hobinheim|SPAACEKirkburn, aren't there guides and build orders that help prevent you from making bad decisions
16:37.06mxsthere is nothing quite as entertaining as 2-by-2-centimeter JPEG artifacts on a poster
16:37.29Shirikpeople don't realize every time they save a jpg it performs the compression again
16:37.36Shirikso they work in jpg format instead of a lossless one
16:37.42KirkburnHobinheim|SPAACE, aye
16:37.42mxsor high-resolution art prints in a so-called art-magazine that have JPEG-edges clearly visible
16:38.00mxsShirik: those people, fortunately, are soon out of a job :)
16:38.20mxsIIRC, JPEG-2000 has a lossless-mode, as well
16:43.59KirkburnI can't actually find a better ship to get tbh
16:44.41mxsI shall resume my lurker duties. Have fun :-)
16:44.41KirkburnThere's one other, a heavy fighter, but it has less armour and energy capacity
16:45.38Kirkburn(the guide -
16:52.58KirkburnGrah, every guide is telling me to get a Defender
16:53.06KirkburnGuess they must have a reason
16:55.13ClydeJrDid you see the BSG mod demo released yesterday? Pretty sure its based off of freelancer2
16:59.36KirkburnFreelancer 2 doesn't exists, but anyhoo :P
16:59.59KirkburnWhat did you actually mean? :)
17:00.57KirkburnI heard about the mod though
17:01.35ClydeJrhrm... maybe it was some other base game. My connection is a little wonky and doesn't want to bring up the page:
17:02.00MikkDAMNIT! Wtb working wowwiki. I need to look up an event >.<
17:02.10KirkburnThere was a Freespace 2
17:02.37ClydeJrahh bet that was it
17:17.37*** join/#wowwiki John (
17:19.52Yithnalthought I'd peek in here... anyone actually here?
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17:20.18SysTem-Xyep, looks like theres a patch update
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18:57.02Apollozeusyou must be bored to tears
18:57.56ClydeJrI think he fell asleep and his head hit the keyboard
19:00.49Tuqui-tuquior he is trying to quote someone but keeps forgetting who or what it is
19:03.28Adysthats my TS push to talk key
19:03.51Tuqui-tuquiyou talk a lot in TS :p
19:05.31*** join/#wowwiki Alux (
19:05.48Adysim raiding :/
19:06.32KirkburnYour TS PTT is a superscript 2?
19:06.36KirkburnHow does that work?
19:07.41KirkburnBtw, "PlayStation 3 sales plunge 82% in UK"
19:08.01KirkburnAnd stocks are nowhere near running out
19:10.24KirkburnWho else wants to be voiced? :)
19:12.20Kowime :p
19:12.53KirkburnVoiced = regular/prolific contributer, bot owners, and major WoW website staff.
19:13.16Kowiyou asked :p
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19:13.31Apollozeuslol i huv vuc n0
19:13.49Apollozeusnot sure what the use of it is
19:13.53Apollozeusbut alright <_<
19:13.58KirkburnNone whatsoever
19:14.05KirkburnUntil I silence the channel, anyway =)
19:14.46Kowiwhat are you using a bot for in here anyway :p
19:20.59Adysinfobot, explain to Kowi why we need you
19:22.14infobotACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
19:23.31KirkburnWhat's the WoW Radio irc address?
19:23.57Adysits noted on
19:24.41Adysanyone using miranda?
19:24.45Adysfor irc access
19:47.20KirkburnenGB patches are up already?
19:47.26KirkburnThat's early!
19:50.28KirkburnWhat WoW related channels do people know?
19:50.52KirkburnIf anyone knows other popular ones than WoWI, Ace, Cosmos and WoW Radio, add them to the page
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20:34.55Hobinheim|SPAACEcan we start charging for wowwiki
20:34.58Hobinheim|SPAACEand be on a payroll
20:35.14Hobinheim|SPAACEthere's a thread "why is SA so good" and it makes me upset that not every internet site is troll immune
20:35.18Hobinheim|SPAACEor troll resistant at least
20:36.01Hobinheim|SPAACEwait so what's the difference between someone who is voiced and normal?
20:36.22Hobinheim|SPAACEi asked that before...
20:39.34Hobinheim|SPAACEjust a title?
20:39.49Hobinheim|SPAACEbtw do you know what Sweeping Strikes does?
20:42.32KirkburnStrikes sweepingly
20:42.39KirkburnAoE strike afaik
20:42.49KirkburnDunno if/how it's different to cleave
20:43.05Kirkburnsancus will know ;)
20:43.29KirkburnVoiced allows someone to speak when the channel is silenced
20:45.49winkillerwasn't there a proposal ro remove the mirc logo?
20:46.40KirkburnYes, if someone comes up with something better
20:47.10winkillercan I get the wowwiki title anywhere?
20:47.21Adyscheck Category:WoWWiki Graphics
20:48.18KirkburnApparently Vomidor is not Travis?
20:56.17Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm going to make a wowwiki fork and charge for it
20:56.22Gryphenremove mirc logo! make everything an unbiased gooey blob!
20:58.07Hobinheim|SPAACEi'm gonna call it... hobwiki
20:58.11Hobinheim|SPAACEgah i pinged myself again
21:01.34winkillerslowwiki hooray. I hate americans :<
21:01.47Hobinheim|SPAACEamerica hates you!
21:01.49Hobinheim|SPAACEwhere are you?
21:01.50Gryphenback atcha
21:02.09winkillerand it's getting slow every day at 11pm till 4 am
21:02.26winkillerno, 6 even
21:24.37KirkburnPatch day
21:32.53BleeterKirkburn: I added norg's irc # to the irc page
21:33.36Bleeterhmm, is that the correct plural?
21:37.28KirkburnYou can't pluralise it, I think
21:40.13Tuqui-tuquithat reminds me
21:40.19Tuqui-tuquiI AM GOING ALDOR!!
21:40.33KirkburnGOOD FOR YOU!!
21:40.51Tekkubso I had my gay mall binge yesterday
21:40.56Tekkub2 years without a real mall...
21:41.10KirkburnWhat's a gay mall binge?
21:41.11Tekkubwe spent $25 on scented candles and $70 on leather jackets :)
21:41.25KirkburnAah, I see
21:41.38Tekkubwith a minor geek binge... a big box of Pocky
21:41.47KirkburnWtf is Pocky?
21:42.11Gryphenjapanese snack
21:45.39KirkburnFreaky food
21:45.47Tekkubit's good!
21:46.05Tekkubyou can get the normal chocolate ones at walmart supercenters for $1/box
22:10.24Hobinheim|SPAACEWTF IS POCKY?
22:10.31Hobinheim|SPAACEWTF IS POCKY?!
22:10.36Hobinheim|SPAACEARE YOU NUTS
22:10.42Hobinheim|SPAACEEAT IT NOW
22:10.55Hobinheim|SPAACEpreferable "men's chocolate" flavor, or whatever
22:11.04Hobinheim|SPAACEsilly japanese don't know how to translate dark chocolate
22:11.10Hobinheim|SPAACEor the one with crushed nuts
22:18.01*** join/#wowwiki amro (n=fiira@
22:48.33amrothe wiki's so fast today that I'm feeling slow
23:23.30Adyslol amro
23:36.13Adysnn peeps
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23:47.03KirkburnCrazy Adys, always turning his PC off
23:48.59KirkburnHobinheim|SPAACE, Bretonia ftw
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