irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070308

00:00.23sancusIt's about making the UI do things and respond in a meaningful way
00:00.29sancusit's certainly not easy, or it would already be done
00:00.48Kirkburn|afkThe wWin95 thing -
00:01.20sancusthe application should "do the right thing" itself
00:01.24sancusnot ask the user to answer a question they can't answer
00:01.29amrosancus, if it's about warning users of security issues, it would have to be lengthier
00:01.39sancusThat's exactly it, warning them is worthless
00:01.51amrowhat do you want the interface to do?
00:01.53sancusbecause how are they supposed to get anything useful out of a warning?
00:02.06amrothey're not allowed to bitch afterwards
00:04.11amronow I don't even now how the discussion got steered this way, but users that are careful enough can avoid problems
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00:06.59sancusAttitudes like that are exactly why security is broken, because expecting users to read everything they've already been specifically trained not to read is just bad design
00:07.27amrothey haven't been "trained" to
00:07.32amrothey're just used to it
00:07.33sancusyep they have
00:07.36sancusread the pdf
00:07.57sancusdon't waste my time by arguing with me if you aren't even going to read the actual research
00:07.57amrosancus, what do you suggest?
00:09.26sancusI suggest reading Peter Gutmann's work! There's no simple one-line "suggestion" that can fix anything complex.
00:09.38sancusThe correct suggestion is tens of pages long
00:10.31amrolol sancus, I'm just messing with you. you're expecting me to read something telling people not to expect others to read stuff =P
00:11.07sancusI'm expecting you to read documents that help programmers design things correctly for users who have been conditioned not to read warning messages
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00:11.41sancusdocuments for programmers and user warning messages dont really have anything to do with eachother
00:13.53amrosancus, we were talking about different things
00:14.23amrothat document deals mainly with phishing, i was talking about not getting your computer full of virii ad spyware
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00:19.43sancuseve on bbc!
00:20.59Kirkburn|afkThey're covering GDC?
00:22.11Kirkburn|afk"C'mon, let's go and shoot someone" ... typical BBC reporter :P
00:22.49Kirkburn|afksancus, is that fleet battle he mentioned the one you told me about?
00:23.06sancusno idea
00:23.10sancusI didnt watch the whole thing
00:23.18sancusbecause news reports about a game I actually play are boring as fuck :P
00:23.27amroI miss EVE
00:23.33sancuswhere is it
00:23.38sancuslike what time in the vid
00:24.33Kirkburn|afkHe said a few days ago there was a fleet battle with over 1,000 people
00:24.48Kirkburn|afkAbout 2 mins
00:25.22Kirkburn|afkPortal looks awesome!
00:25.30Kirkburn|afkI'm downloading some vids of it now :)
00:26.04Kirkburn|afkAlong with Season 1 of House
00:28.11sancussounds like he's just talking about fleet battles in general
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00:36.24bleetahKirkburn|afk: aye, portal looks like shitloads of fun
00:37.32bleetahthe whole.. escher style of physics seems very attractive
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00:57.27Kirkburn|afkHey Tekkub
00:57.54Kirkburn|afkzomg new guideline zomg
00:58.21Tekkubzomg zeas drama :P
01:03.51Kirkburn|afkDarn, still got 892 edits to go until 10,000
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01:07.50amroim an expet!
01:08.42amroit links to the proper title
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03:18.11Hobinheim|worki know i said i'd work on some bots....
03:18.17Hobinheim|workis anyone else on it?
03:18.22Hobinheim|worki feel guilty for slacking at work =(
03:18.26Hobinheim|workbut i did come back from the gym!
03:19.30Kirkburn|afkhey hob :)
03:20.09Hobinheim|afkwhat up sir
03:20.24Hobinheim|afkKirkburn|afk, have there been any progress on the bot requests?
03:20.31Hobinheim|afki don't wanna step on anyone's toes
03:21.57Hobinheim|afkand if no, what do we want first, the bc band or elink
03:24.13Kirkburn|afkNo progress, so go ahead :)
03:24.22Kirkburn|afkElink I guess
03:24.45Kirkburn|afkThis shows how to form it -
03:26.30Hobinheim|afkinternet is dying
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03:36.53Hobinheim|afkmy internet connection is dying in slow motion i dunno how productive i'll be tonight
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03:58.08Hobinheim|afkso i'm trying to like... do my dialy goof off and just browse the net
03:58.15Hobinheim|afki have to like... look at one web page at a time
03:58.40Hobinheim|afklike i don't know if these messages are getting through
03:58.43Hobinheim|afkand i don't know if i'm missing any
04:07.56Hobinheim|afkis anyone out there?
04:07.57Hobinheim|afkping me
04:08.04Kirkburn|afkYou pong
04:08.21Kirkburn|afkIRC uses bugger all bandwidth at least :)
04:08.53Hobinheim|afkyou lost me at slang
04:08.58Hobinheim|afkvery little or a lot?
04:09.04Hobinheim|afkcuz i'm gonna lean on very little
04:09.07Kirkburn|afkV little :P
04:09.23Hobinheim|afkoh and i'm only in my teens but dare i say i don't like affliction
04:09.38Hobinheim|afkit's funny how the first few points of destro and affliction make different spells faste
04:09.47Hobinheim|afkaffliction = immolate is so fucking slow
04:09.52Hobinheim|afkdestro = corrupt is so fucking slow
04:10.07Hobinheim|afkdemo = well i guess i didn't know any better in the first place
04:10.24Hobinheim|afkand i play like a bot. affliction is only good if you multi tag mobs constantly
04:12.50Hobinheim|afki have this feeling that i will like destro more
04:13.00Hobinheim|afkso upsetting since everyone on the forums has a boner for affliction
04:13.07Hobinheim|afk42/8/11 is the new thing on the block
04:13.23Hobinheim|afkimp howl, ua, and something else. stamina and imp imp, and then shadowburn
04:13.33Kirkburn|afkDemo is awesome
04:13.37Hobinheim|afki plan on always beeing 61 points deep. Kirkburn|afk, what's your spec
04:13.39Kirkburn|afkFelguard rocks everything
04:14.16Hobinheim|afkpeople are still trying to find out the pwnage point of demo, since all they do is sing praises about affliction
04:14.24Hobinheim|afki just said mana feed and judicious chaining
04:14.33Kirkburn|afkEverything I can to improve the felguard (so everything in Demo except other pet improvements) and rest afflic
04:15.06Hobinheim|afkhow deep?
04:16.15Kirkburn|afkInto afflic?
04:16.29Kirkburn|afkI can't remember :P
04:19.11Hobinheim|afkdid you do that yourself?
04:19.15Hobinheim|afkyou could have, you know, armory'ed it
04:20.14Hobinheim|afkomg browsing pages is so painful. it's like one thing at a time. this is 2007 c'mon!
04:20.31Hobinheim|afkman really about that felguard huh
04:21.13Hobinheim|afkc'mon man where's your master conjuror and imp enslave!!!!
04:22.08Hobinheim|afkdude 3/3 feed and 2/2 tap must be HOTT
04:22.14Hobinheim|afkand one siphon
04:22.18Kirkburn|afkHobinheim|afk, can't armory it - haven't logged in to it yet
04:22.27Hobinheim|afklogged into it?????
04:22.37Hobinheim|afkyou don't log into anything, you just look up your profile
04:22.39Kirkburn|afkOh yeah, I can fill up my felguards mana bar in about 2 taps
04:22.54Kirkburn|afkI haven't logged in recently for it to get the info on logout]
04:23.41Kirkburn|afkY'know Warcraft is now going to take over all the Google results for Armory too :/
04:24.07Kirkburn|afkI had wondered what happened to ImproveDressingRoom and UndressButton - they became CloseUp
04:24.40Hobinheim|afkwhat are those?
04:25.21Hobinheim|afksee i have this theory that deep talents are worth more than shallow talents of other trees
04:25.34Hobinheim|afkFelguard is worth more than imp corr.41 levels actually
04:25.53Hobinheim|afkbut i doubt there is any warlock in the universe, besides myself, who would stick up for imp enslave or master conjuror
04:25.59Hobinheim|afkin the face of two points elsewhere
04:26.17Kirkburn|afkUh, no
04:28.58Hobinheim|afki hate this i can barely look at any web page
04:29.08Hobinheim|afki could just write a bot blind, click run and see what happens =)
04:31.09Hobinheim|afkokay i'm just going to pretend i didn't promsie anything tonight
04:31.13Hobinheim|afkcuz this is rediculous...
04:31.32Hobinheim|afki wonder what happens if i try to launch wow
04:41.47Hobinheim|afkis it sufficient to download a rogue patch and then just run the launcher to do the checksum?
04:42.22KarrionHobinheim|afk: run the downloader tool
04:57.05Kirkburn|afkYay, found an MD5 checker
04:57.11Kirkburn|afkAnd I got the clean patch
04:57.24Kirkburn|afkHobinheim|afk, want a link to an MD5 checker?
04:57.38Hobinheim|afkno, just curious
05:03.50Hobinheim|afki can't even log into my server where i write my scripts
05:03.58Hobinheim|afkexcuses excuses... damn you shitty american internet connection!
05:04.21Hobinheim|afkand i'm getting sleepy =(
05:05.38Hobinheim|afkw/e. i'm passing out. clearly not working =(
05:05.40Hobinheim|afksorry dude
05:05.54Hobinheim|afkmaybe i can squeeze one out if i'm at work
05:05.57Hobinheim|afkor if i come in early
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15:24.14winkilleris there any page with the new pvp rewards?
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15:30.07TepetkhetSo cold...
15:32.26Tuqui-tuquiits nice and warm here
15:32.38Tuqui-tuqui24 degrees :D
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15:42.37Tepet|WorkDid I forget to change my nick at home or something?
15:48.48equiraptorThere's still a Tepetkhet in this channel.
15:50.42equiraptorAnd now the Tepetkhet is gone.
15:53.31Tepet|WorkIt is?
15:53.59Tepet|WorkI show me as Tepetkhet and there's a Tepetkhet and Tepet|Work
15:54.26equiraptor09:50 Tepetkhet [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:54.35equiraptor(it's 9:45 here now)
15:54.51equiraptorAnd I see you as Tepet|Work
15:55.58*** join/#wowwiki Tepetkhet (
15:56.11equiraptorNow you look like Tepetkhet.
15:56.49equiraptorPoor tep.
15:57.01TepetkhetIdentity crisis.
15:57.17TepetkhetStill giving you trouble?
15:57.27equiraptorNo, actually.
15:57.43equiraptorIt looks like they're healed up and happy. I no longer have any pain, numbness, or odd feelings from them.
15:57.50equiraptorAnd I can put in the earrings without a mirror again.
15:58.33equiraptorSo I shoudl be good. I can go back to only wearing earrings if I want to. :)
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16:09.39Hobinheim|afkpaging Kirkburn|afk
16:12.13Hobinheim|workwell the bc bot is done
16:12.18Hobinheim|worki'm just not letting it loose yet
16:12.25Hobinheim|workto see how it's doing, check out Hobinbot's contributions
16:12.46Hobinheim|workpage me if you wanna see more
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16:31.14Hobinheim|workyo Gryphen
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16:50.36equiraptorYo ho ho and a bottle of rum.
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16:51.16Zorkmid25WoW sucks, wheres that in the wiki?
16:51.53TepetkhetThat would be under the "opinions and flamebait" section.
16:52.34TepetkhetWe already have a section for trolls, but it's for the tusked variety.
16:52.38Zorkmid25Well what about the part that talks about how warcraft has little to do with any skill, and more to do with which ever guy logs on and plays the longest is the better play?
16:52.58TepetkhetSame section.
16:53.01Zorkmid25And what about the part that says raiding consists merely of doing the same thing night after night?
16:53.03equiraptorThe part that also says, "Play for fun, not to measure your dick."
16:53.36Tuqui-tuquior "take a break... come back in 2 months"
16:53.47Zorkmid25Only people with addictive personalities could consider this game to be fun
16:53.59TepetkhetIf logging in and playing the longest were valid measures of the best players, then why do I suck?
16:54.10Zorkmid25Its fun the same way that a slot machine is fun
16:54.10TepetkhetGrant me your wisdom, Zorkmid25!
16:54.12equiraptor'cuz you don't play that much, tep.
16:54.22equiraptorZorkmid25: Then you're playing it wrong. go find a different game.
16:54.59Zorkmid25i dont play WoW anymore
16:55.13TepetkhetThen why are you in a WoW-related channel?
16:55.18equiraptorThen go have fun doing whatever you do now, and leave us be.
16:55.23TepetkhetGo find something else to do with your time.
16:55.24Zorkmid25and if I can make one person consider quitting, I feel I'm doing a public service
16:55.37equiraptorThen you have a twisted view of "public service."
16:55.48TepetkhetWhy don't you use that energy to encourage people to stop smoking or doing drugs instead?
16:55.49Zorkmid25Ive saved hundreds of children from WoW
16:55.53TepetkhetOr beating their spouses?
16:56.01TepetkhetIf you're so community-minded.
16:56.08equiraptorSounds like a good plan.
16:56.11Zorkmid25if you're over 19, go ahead and play
16:56.20equiraptorI know my uncle could have used someone helping him in that area.
16:56.26equiraptorIt's too late for him now, though.
16:56.29TepetkhetI'm 36.
16:56.40equiraptorWhy 19?
16:56.41Zorkmid25if you spend several night a week playing a video game as an adult, you're going to be pretty useless to society anyways, so just sit in front of that computer.
16:56.54equiraptorI love it.
16:57.16equiraptor"pretty useless," eh?
16:57.22Zorkmid25its the 13-18 year olds that it is crucial to get to
16:57.23TepetkhetSo glad we have people like Zorkmid25 to dictate what's useful.
16:57.32TepetkhetTrolling IRC channels is hardly useful and productive.
16:57.35equiraptorApparently maintaining a stable job, donating money to charities, and helping friends is useless to society.
16:58.03TepetkhetNow kindly go elsewhere and go "be productive."
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16:58.13Zorkmid25equi, if those things are true, you'd be the exception
16:58.19equiraptorZorkmid25: Really?
16:58.27Zorkmid25I dont consider Walmart or Circuit City to be a stable job
16:58.28equiraptorBecause most of the people I know who play WoW quite a bit fit that pattern.
16:58.35Zorkmid25thats what most of my old guildies did
16:58.51Zorkmid25they were all walmarters
16:58.55Zorkmid25managers no less.
16:59.02Zorkmid25but making 10-12 bukcs an hours
16:59.05equiraptorSo you assume the other 8 million people playing WoW are the same way?
16:59.06Zorkmid25hating their jobs
16:59.14equiraptorThat seems like a pretty poor assumption, to me.
16:59.23Zorkmid25looking to warcraft to kill the pain since they say alcohol is too expensive
16:59.43MontaggZorkmid25: I never thought of it that way... Good point.
16:59.44equiraptorHeh. WoW's a much better way to kill pain than alcohol. Much less long term damage done to the body, generally.
17:00.52Zorkmid25maybe Equi, but it is no less of a destructive habit
17:00.59equiraptorI dunno.
17:01.11equiraptorI'd say it probably is less destructive a habit in most cases.
17:01.35equiraptorLook at the statistics. How many people actually have problems due to WoW in any given year when compared with the total population that plays?
17:01.36Zorkmid25At least there is rehab and AA for alcoholics
17:01.40equiraptorIt's a pretty small percent.
17:01.51Tuqui-tuquiwait... did you just compare me to an alcoholic?
17:01.52equiraptorActually, there's rehab for people addicted to the Internet and games now, too.
17:01.52MontaggI think if you argued that WoW is a destructive habit, you would have to argue that all entertainment-related habits are invariably destructive.
17:02.04Tuqui-tuquiyou my friend are a douche
17:02.13Tuqui-tuquito generalize everyone in such an insolent manner
17:02.21Tuqui-tuquiI can assure you I make more money than you do
17:02.25Tuqui-tuquiI sponsor two children
17:02.34Tuqui-tuquiI have a g/f whom I go out with frequently
17:02.38equiraptorHey, no need to get into a "who makes more" competition.
17:02.51Tuqui-tuquiand Im in plans to adopt a child...
17:03.08Tuqui-tuquinow youre saying that because I like WoW, Im no better than an alcoholic?
17:03.10Tuqui-tuquiget real
17:03.11TepetkhetTuqui-tuqui: ConGrabulations!  :)
17:03.11MontaggAll of whom you intend to make play WoW, right Tuqui-tuqui? ;-)
17:03.16Zorkmid25tuqui, dont tell the agency you play wow everyday
17:03.30Tuqui-tuquiyou my friend... are now in my ignore list
17:04.08equiraptorI wonder if I should go get my blood test yet...
17:04.15MontaggTuqui-tuqui: I think he's saying that the majority of people who play WoW are in low paying jobs, which is probably true because a majority are in their twenties and just out of college.
17:04.15Zorkmid25Why are people giving out your life stories over the internet like that?
17:04.24TepetkhetI suppose people who go to baseball games are just as bad.  People who eat chocolate every day are worse.
17:04.35Zorkmid25tep?  how?
17:04.39TepetkhetI wonder where Internet trolls fit into it?
17:04.47Zorkmid25a baseball game isnt something people do 6-8 hours a day.
17:04.52Zorkmid25its not
17:04.57Tuqui-tuquipeople who are afraid to voice their opinions in person
17:05.21Tuqui-tuquianyhoo... I like WoW ^_^
17:05.24Tuqui-tuquifun stuff
17:05.28equiraptorI wonder how many hours a week the typical WoW player plays.
17:05.42equiraptorI suspect it's less than 42.
17:05.42Zorkmid25someone tell tuqui that I do voice my opinion in person and everywhere
17:05.52Zorkmid25I run the site
17:05.59MontaggWild guess would be 20 hours, which is about how much people watch TV a week.
17:06.08TepetkhetTV is evil, too.
17:06.16Zorkmid25equi raptor
17:06.19equiraptorAt least WoW is somewhat interactive!
17:06.20TepetkhetI wonder if Zorkmid25 watches TV.
17:06.23Zorkmid25I have seen WoW raiders first han
17:06.27MontaggOf course, but it's more socially acceptable. =c)
17:06.28TepetkhetOr goes to the movies.
17:06.42Zorkmid25Tv and movies are not the same thing
17:06.48Tuqui-tuquiIm a huge movie buff
17:06.52TepetkhetMontagg: Smoking was also more socially acceptable at one point.
17:07.03Tuqui-tuquieveryone Ive dated have had to be either movie or theater buffs :D
17:07.05Zorkmid25WoW and other MMORPGs are an addictive force that is harmful to western society
17:07.15equiraptorNo, they're not.
17:07.23equiraptorPeople with addictive personalities have issues.
17:07.29Zorkmid25it is growing at an exponential rate and people were not ready for it
17:07.40equiraptorIt doesn't matter what the thing is (MMO, alcohol, whatever) the person will have issues until they deal with the source, not the distraction.
17:08.20equiraptorAren't the majority of WoW accounts Eastern, not Western, anyway?
17:08.32Zorkmid25Heres some quotes from my site......
17:08.33Zorkmid25I quit cold turkey and asked my daughter if she would like it if I read books to her every night instead of playing the computer game. The four-year-old looked up at me with big eyes and said, "I could get used to that Daddy." I'm never going back.
17:08.44equiraptorOh, no.
17:08.47Zorkmid25#13921 I just deleted three lvl 60s and I almost punched my mother. THIS GAME IS EVIL. Quit now, I can't believe what it has turned me into. I'm 36 years old and I don't recognize myself anymore. All my money belongs to this game. Why can't I stop? WHY, WHY NOT. My life is rapidly spiralling downwards. My only friends are the ones that are in my clan. I NEED SOME FREAKIN HELP. I weigh 248 pounds and i'm 5' 5" . Help please.
17:08.51equiraptorNot the "for the children" whining.
17:08.53equiraptorGrow up.
17:09.13Zorkmid25equi, what else is there?
17:09.22Zorkmid25Because being forced to heal as a shaman sucks. Not to mention there is tons of other things I could do with the 40 hours I spend playing a week.
17:09.24equiraptorYa know, my life has gotten better since I started playing WoW.
17:09.34Zorkmid25good for you
17:09.50Zorkmid25Im not saying its bad for everyone
17:09.52Zorkmid25point taken
17:09.56Zorkmid25you're the lucky one
17:09.56equiraptorYes, you are.
17:10.07equiraptorharmful to western society
17:10.16Zorkmid25I know a guy who plays wow compulsively. apart from working and ordering food he plays. he is in his mid-late 20s and I suspect he'll get to his 30s and realise what a waste it has been. I used to play games until I was 16 I'm so glad I never got into wow. It is JUST a game and I hope it gets treated as such. Full credit though to the creators they are genious' for understanding human nature.
17:10.22TepetkhetWhy not Eastern society?
17:10.26equiraptorThen he needs to deal with his personal issues.
17:10.29TepetkhetIt's not harmful to them?
17:10.34Zorkmid25just because it doesnt hurt you don't mean its not hurting your community
17:10.37equiraptorHe doesn't need you to come in here and claim that WoW is the cause of these problems.
17:10.39Hobinheim|workyo Montagg, what up
17:10.53equiraptorIt's not.
17:11.27Zorkmid25this one is funny, lol
17:11.27Zorkmid25I was meeting more people online than offline. And I'm pretty sure the hot girls I was meeting online weren't nearly as hot offline. Worse, I even have a sneaking suspicion they were teenage. Teenage boys. :(
17:11.40equiraptorI know more people online than offline.
17:11.49MontaggHobinheim|work: My laptop's keyboard is dead, so I've been struggling through writing 20 pages worth of papers in computer labs.
17:12.02equiraptorWhen traveling, I frequently try to meet these people in person.
17:12.03Hobinheim|workuhh a vandal
17:12.08Zorkmid25I had alot of people I considered friends when I played
17:12.10MontaggGo hob!
17:12.26*** join/#wowwiki Trae (
17:12.26equiraptorI have friends throughout the world, now, who would happily give me couch space if I was traveling in that area.
17:12.30Zorkmid25I was a t3 tank back before the expansion
17:12.46equiraptorAnd I'd happily give them couch space here. It's great to be able to see different cultures like this.
17:12.53Zorkmid25I decided to quit, and posted on the guild website.
17:13.23Hobinheim|workfucking losers
17:13.27Hobinheim|worktriple vandals
17:13.31Hobinheim|workreactive blocks, all of them, haha
17:13.34Zorkmid25Sure there were a few people that were sad and that I still talk to and have met, but the VAST majority were more interested in flaming and insisting that my character should be given to the guild.
17:13.50equiraptorIt'd be nice if people could find way to waste their time that didn't involve making others' lives more difficult.
17:13.57equiraptorOh, wait, WoW's really great for that!
17:14.17equiraptorWell, if you talked to them like you talked to us in here, I can understand why they'd flame you.
17:14.34equiraptorOf course, with what you said earlier about your guild, it sounds like it was one of the crappy ones, anyway.
17:14.41Zorkmid25It gave me a perspective about what a the average WoW guildmate is really interested in, just loot and prgression in the game (even though this guild was pretty much at the game's end) and not so much about meeting people and having fun
17:14.43Hobinheim|workfuck i hate e-losers
17:15.05equiraptorThat's a hallmark of a bad guild.
17:15.14equiraptorYeah, there are a lot of guild's like that, but I've never been in one.
17:15.28Zorkmid25equi, this guild didn't seem bad at all.
17:15.46Zorkmid25I was in serveal end game guilds and this one seemed to me to be the best I was involved with
17:15.48equiraptorThat's not the picture you drew earlier.
17:16.13Zorkmid25the picture changed as soon as I quit
17:16.16Zorkmid25thats my point
17:16.34Zorkmid25The game just was consuming all my free time. I was neglecting the things that where most important in my life which was my family and friends. I was spending way to much time going after items that all they amounted to where pixels on a screen.
17:16.45Zorkmid25I got irritated running around endlessly and when I got my mount at lvl 40, there was nothing left to play for.
17:16.58equiraptor"The game just was consuming all my free time." That's the proof that you needed to quit, and not be in a guild like that in the first place.
17:16.59Zorkmid255,999,999 idiots.
17:17.08Zorkmid25that isnt my opinion
17:17.25equiraptorIf you're letting the game consume all your free time, you have problems.
17:17.40equiraptorAnd if your guild is encouraging this or even supporting this, it's not a good guild.
17:17.51Zorkmid25MMORPGs are not like other games, they have an addicting property that other games do not have
17:18.10equiraptorFor some, yes.
17:18.19equiraptorBut it's not like the addictive quality that nicotine has.
17:18.25Zorkmid25I am now on medication for depression because my parents took away the game after I was spending way too much time on it. I don't have very good social skills in RL. So I used this.
17:18.35Zorkmid25After 7 hours in a 5 man instance, playing MH for a three man group, my ass is killing me.
17:18.46Zorkmid25Blizzard Favors the Horde, Classes are boring, Gameplay is Boring, Not much to do at Level 60, The Community is comparable to a fourth grade class, and its not worth shelling out $15 a month for all this crap they call a game.
17:18.49equiraptorI don't have very good social skills IRL either.
17:18.58equiraptorThat's why I IRC.
17:19.00MontaggClass time. See you guys later.
17:19.04Zorkmid25Because Blizzard ignored the players, the lore, and what warcraft was. The Game hit big on lore. Without a solid warcraft feel from the game now its just every other cookie cutter mmo destined to fall off to obsurity eventually.
17:19.05Kirkburn|afkSee Montagg
17:19.08Tuqui-tuquicya Montagg
17:19.09MontaggGood luck trying to sort out the social implications of WoW. =c)
17:19.27infobotit has been said that ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
17:19.54TepetkhetNice, Kirkburn|afk.  That explains a lot.
17:20.46Zorkmid25I preffered playing a real game where skill mattered. All that matters in Warcraft is how much gear you have. Too bad the gear you have is directly proportional to how little social skills you have.
17:21.01Hobinheim|workKirkburn|afk, quadruple vandal
17:21.19equiraptorZorkmid25: You don't play WoW like I do.
17:21.23Kirkburn|afkHobinheim|work, ooh
17:21.31Hobinheim|worki'm cleaning up the images right now
17:21.37Hobinheim|workif you could document the four blocks, that would be super
17:23.53Zorkmid25I want to learn to play piano, which means I have to spend lots of time practicing, at least or more time than I spend in WoW. What do I get for spending that much time on WoW?
17:24.05Zorkmid25#209 because you play countless hours each week to get better quipment so you can get better equipment to get even better equipment.
17:24.30Zorkmid25I hate large guild politics, grouping with 40 random people who are just in it for the leet gear - and you are too, because you don't know any of these idiots but you need the gear to stay competitive and progress in the game you once loved. You miss your crappy little former guild with all your friends in it, but it wasn't big enough to raid. You still see your friends online sometimes... sometimes.
17:25.05Hobinheim|workdare i say five vandals
17:25.21Zorkmid25Because you can't be the best at anything when you play solo and casual, and you can't have a life outside WoW if you're hardcore.
17:25.32Zorkmid25It's like a Counter-Strike server that cost $15/month to play on.
17:25.35equiraptorAnd the only reason to play is to be the best at something.
17:25.42Zorkmid25Because my Wife divorced me, took half my money, and the credit card I used to pay for WoW.
17:25.43equiraptorOh, yes. That's the only possible desire someone could have.
17:25.49Zorkmid25Because my four year old said When are you gonna be off the game?
17:26.09equiraptorYou're a troll and nothing more. You think you're "helping" people, but you have a twisted world view.
17:26.23equiraptorI am now going to lunch. Have fun continuing to look stupid! :)
17:26.28Zorkmid25Because I spend half my week getting Tier 1 and 2 gear that I can't even use half the time because I need more fire resist. After which I can't wear in AQ because I need Nature Resist. And now, Frost Resist!! We could have jumped straight to Naxx seeing as we don't even use what we previously spent 100's of hours getting!
17:26.47Zorkmid25My mother went into a clinical depression wherein she decided to play WoW all day everyday, her business fell apart and she's saying she might be on the street within 3 months.
17:26.51Hobinheim|workcrap i nuked a file =(
17:27.06Zorkmid25You have to play the game 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for three, four, five, six... more weeks STRAIGHT if you want to get rank 14 in PvP. Blizzard should be ashamed they have set up a system that requires that level of dedication, and worse, people do it. Not healthy.
17:27.16Hobinheim|workblah i nuked a map of azeroth =(
17:27.32Hobinheim|worksome jerk overwrote it and i couldn't access the normal delete page
17:27.36Zorkmid25Because it's the only place I know where a 17 year old can cuss me out, take something away from me(DKP), make my friends hate me and I will actually be apologetic and ashamed.
17:27.53Zorkmid25it is a very colorful "thing to do," though not really much of an actual "game." in retrospect, it was addictive rather than enjoyable- i never realized how much i was missing the fun in my life until after i started having it again.
17:27.58Zorkmid25Realized all the female characters in the game were still really just guys in their late 30s
17:28.23TepetkhetI'm a female in the game and outside the game.
17:28.29Zorkmid25some of these are funny
17:28.29TepetkhetAnd I'm in my late 30s.
17:28.41sancuslots and lots of females play WoW
17:28.43TepetkhetAnd the PvP system is different now.
17:28.48TepetkhetSo go away, troll.
17:28.48Zorkmid25I know sancus
17:28.56Zorkmid25I wouldn't say "lots of women"
17:29.02Zorkmid25its maybe like 10:1
17:29.16sancusThe rank 14 stuff was always a sucker's bet.
17:29.19Zorkmid25women are alot smarter than men
17:29.22sancusIf you wasted your time on it, that's your problem :P
17:29.26Kirkburn|afksancus, do you know if it's possible to retrieve an accidentaly deleted image file on WoWWiki?
17:29.27Zorkmid25agreed sancus
17:29.36sancusKirkburn: Um, no idea
17:29.39Zorkmid25You have to play the game 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for three, four, five, six... more weeks STRAIGHT if you want to get rank 14 in PvP. Blizzard should be ashamed they have set up a system that requires that level of dedication, and worse, people do it. Not healthy.
17:29.41sancusProbably not
17:29.49sancusYou said that already.
17:29.56sancusAnd that system has been removed, anyway.
17:29.59Kirkburn|afkI know I can't, but I don't know if it goes from the server too
17:30.01sancusBecause it sucked.
17:30.05Tepetkhetsancus: And all those people who wasted time PvPing to get rank 14 are kicking themselves since the PvP system was changed.
17:30.11TepetkhetTheir own fault.
17:30.18Zorkmid25Tep, myself and maybe 2 other women in my guilds
17:30.21sancusTepet: Good, maybe they'll learn a thing or two about identifying poor risk/reward ratios :P
17:30.41Zorkmid25tep, did you meet alot of women playing?
17:30.46Zorkmid25or mostly men?
17:30.46sancusKirkburn: can you give me the filename?
17:31.02Kirkburn|afkImage:Early azeroth.jpg
17:31.42Zorkmid25I was so addicted i was using my parents credit card to buy Gold online without them knowing and ran up a huge bill without even realising. Worrying about whether or not i'd have enough DKP to buy that ring if it dropped from MC was also really less interesting than my girlfriend or playing real know..with an end.
17:31.51TepetkhetStop pasting crap in from your website.
17:32.01Zorkmid25Spending 4 hours running through BWL and only actually doing anything for 30 minutes got really old, and I ended up just getting burnt out on the game altogether.
17:32.07TepetkhetIf we want to read it, we'll go there.
17:32.10Hobinheim|workKirkburn|afk, how does hobinbot look so far
17:32.26Zorkmid25People saying that World of Warcraft requires a lot of skill.
17:32.27Kirkburn|afksancus, better link -
17:32.33TepetkhetAnd as it stands, you'r enot even carrying on a coherent conversation since we can't tell what's your opinion and what's your site's user opinions.
17:32.40Kirkburn|afk(swapping PCs is fun)
17:32.49Tepetkhets/you'r enot/you're not'
17:32.50Zorkmid25Got tired of the boring endless grind of the endgame, how when people leave the game it sets you back for weeks in progress through BWL, AQ40, whatever..I'm glad I quit
17:32.51*** kick/#wowwiki [Zorkmid25!] by sancus (shut up)
17:32.57*** join/#wowwiki Zorkmid25 (
17:33.06Hobinheim|workinfobot, where are you?
17:33.07infobotI am at 42.37512 N, 72.51999 W
17:33.19TepetkhetInfobot probably didn't like the '
17:33.29Tepetkheter, hm
17:33.32sancusKirkburn: Hmm ok, let me see if I can find it anywhere
17:33.38Kirkburn|afkThanks :)
17:33.54sancusmight also want to check your browser cache
17:34.00Kirkburn|afkZorkmid25, stop complaining so much! =)
17:34.01Hobinheim|workyeah that's what i was thinking
17:34.08Zorkmid25lol kirk?
17:34.09Kirkburn|afkI can't, I didn't delete it =)
17:34.14Zorkmid25im not complaining
17:34.22Hobinheim|worki don't think i visited that page in the recent past
17:34.23sancusKirkburn: yea but did you go to the page before it was deleted?!?
17:34.37sancusoh well
17:34.43TepetkhetKirkburn|afk: S/He is just pasting in a bunch of garbage from his/her website.
17:34.58sancusIt stopped now :P
17:35.19*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ
17:38.20Zorkmid25Doctor claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted
17:38.20Zorkmid25By Jeremy Reimer | Published: August 09, 2006 - 04:11PM CT
17:40.20Hobinheimsorry about nuking the early azeroth image. it was one of those fancy glitch images that wouldn't let us read the page
17:40.30Zorkmid25The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll
17:41.58sancusKirkburn: Nope, looks like you're screwed :/
17:42.04Kirkburn|afksancus, woot
17:42.07Hobinheimbooo =(
17:42.11sancusunless vlad has backups of the wiki dir or something
17:42.14Hobinheimvandals!!!! >=(
17:42.14sancusI'll ask him
17:42.30Hobinheimwell... there are low res copies on google images
17:42.34Hobinheimand i'm sure we got it from somewhere
17:42.38Hobinheimso i guess we could re source it
17:43.19*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (
17:43.19*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ
17:43.44KirkburnSo that was the close button
17:43.59KirkburnI was going to say, at least Google lets us see what it looked like
17:44.17KirkburnLooks like the WC1 map?
17:44.45KirkburnFound it I think!
17:45.31KirkburnHmm, feels a bit echoey in here
17:45.32sancushere I found a copy
17:45.45sancusin a backup dir :P
17:45.52KirkburnI found a bigger one =)
17:45.59sancusthat's the one that was on the site
17:46.13KirkburnWell now we can have a better one too :P
17:46.34Hobinheimbut seriously that was like a five man raid on the wiki
17:46.37Hobinheimvery, very clever...
17:46.43Hobinheimengaging in DNP conversation
17:47.19KirkburnYeah, they should be doing that on here, not on the wiki
17:47.39Zorkmid25WoW is like the lottery.  A tax on the poor.  -Abraham Lincoln
17:48.54Hobinheimso is the bc bot doing okay?
17:48.54Hobinheimshould i up the ante?
17:48.54*** mode/#wowwiki [+b *!*] by sancus
17:48.54Hobinheimi gotta get back to work =/
17:48.54*** kick/#wowwiki [Zorkmid25!] by sancus (troll elsewhere)
17:48.55TepetkhetThanks, sancus.
17:49.07TepetkhetIt took slightly less than 1 hour.
17:49.17sancusyeah well, I wasn't paying attention when he started
17:49.25sancusIf he was actually participating in an argument I wouldn't have banned him
17:49.31sancusbut he's just cutting and pasting nonsense that no one is responding to
17:49.38TepetkhetPretty much.
17:49.53KirkburnHobinheim, if it works, let it run free :P
17:50.02KirkburnAtm, I'm trying to cut the file size of the map
17:50.28sancuspng it?
17:50.34sancusIt looks like an excellent candidate for png
17:51.17sancus(and a terrible one for jpg!)
17:53.38Hobinheimi gonna nuke the "BC" template in tow (contrast "Bc")
17:54.44sancusI'm not sure if vlad is taking regular backups of everything, I should check that too
17:54.44sancussince images can't be undeleted
17:54.44sancusnone of the attached content can be
17:55.25KirkburnI gifed it
17:56.11KirkburnExcellent candidate for PNG - that made it go from 850KB as a jpg to over 3MB
17:56.39KirkburnI was using Paint to save it as a PNG, but still ...
17:57.49KirkburnHobinheim, !
17:58.05Hobinheimyeah i see something
17:58.07Hobinheimwhat's up
17:58.16KirkburnIt's removing the <noinc> tags too
17:58.16Hobinheimlines that include more than the word bc?
17:58.26*** join/#wowwiki Traveler2 (
17:58.38Hobinheimk i killed it for now
17:58.47Hobinheimthis is in the latest run only, yes?
17:58.49Hobinheimthe BC run?
18:00.49KirkburnShall I revert all the item changes?
18:01.05Hobinheimif you could, that would help a lot
18:01.07Hobinheimi gotta get back to work
18:01.18KirkburnWe're getting there :)
18:01.19Hobinheimi'll wait till i get home to fix that thing
18:01.27Hobinheimneeds. more. int!
18:02.24Hobinheimi wonder what the wiki will be like without zeal
18:02.32Hobinheimand i wonder what tek said that could have been worse than what i said
18:02.42sancusoh it was originally a jpg?
18:02.45Hobinheimmore stable is the concept i was hoping for
18:02.57Kirkburnsancus, the high quality version I got was
18:03.09sancusthe image is an excellent candidate for png
18:03.18sancusBut only if you have the actual raw image data to compress in the first place :P
18:03.22sancusjpg -> png is sucky, yeah
18:03.37sancuswhat resolution is it anyhow
18:04.11Kirkburn1622x1202 was the original
18:04.31KirkburnFor uploading I turned it into a 80% size gif
18:04.42Tuqui-tuquiyou guys dont have photoshop? I can resize it for you
18:04.46KirkburnI uploaded the original too though
18:04.56sancuslooks like a jpg to me
18:04.59KirkburnOriginal -
18:05.32Kirkburn is definately a gif, despite the name
18:05.47sancuswell fix the name!
18:06.00KirkburnDon't wanna!
18:06.15KirkburnFixing bottage first :P
18:07.04sancusIt comes up 30kb smaller as a PNG
18:07.17sancusI was going to say, you can't end up with a good size GIF but a bad size PNG, that doesnt make any sense :P
18:07.29KirkburnPaint can ^^
18:07.36sancusI guess paint sucks
18:07.38KirkburnI would use Fireworks, but wrong PC again
18:07.40sancusI'm just using Irfanview
18:07.51sancus<3 Irfanview
18:07.52KirkburnI should install that on Vista later
18:08.03Hobinheimok back to work. bot is totally off
18:08.09*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (
18:08.22sancusbut w/e, gif is fine too
18:08.44sancusthings without a lot of gradients come out well as gif/png, vice versa for jpg
18:15.02*** join/#wowwiki Silan (
18:22.38*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim (
18:22.38*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ
18:22.43Hobinheim(can't stay away)
18:23.47Hobinheimi'll get rid of that BC template traditionally, w/o changing anything else
18:23.51Hobinheimso that'll be a seperate script
18:29.14Hobinheimdo you know what the whole beef was between tek and zeal?
18:29.49Hobinheimalleged Grade B Zhevra beef
18:43.22KirkburnNot really
18:43.39equiraptorHow can it be beef if it's from a Zhevra?
18:43.44equiraptorAre they secretly cows?
18:43.54KirkburnYou didn't know!?
18:44.01equiraptorI didn't. :(
18:45.05Hobinheimthat guy... the meat vendor in the crossroads who's getting married...
18:45.11Hobinheimactually sells lower quality meat
18:45.17Hobinheimdo you see any cows in the barrens? no
18:45.24equiraptorHrm? The meat vendor is the crossoads is getting married?
18:45.27equiraptorI should pay more attention...
18:45.35Hobinheim|workthe quest text that i actually read in depth
18:45.37Hobinheim|workquite romantic
18:46.06Hobinheim|workgetting married to the innkeeper in orgrimmar who you deliever meats to
18:46.09Tuqui-tuquiI ate corpses for nourishment if I dont have bread and water
18:46.12Hobinheim|workthey were flirting and you're their messenger
18:46.15equiraptorOh, that one. Sweet. :)
18:46.17Hobinheim|workit's the "teach me about flight paths" quest line
18:58.16KirkburnChrist GreenEye just WANTS me to ban him
19:02.16KirkburnIt's like he was watching the page
19:03.29KirkburnDid he think I'd forget what happened in August? =)
19:03.58KirkburnHobinheim|work, what did Filgamer do?
19:04.07KirkburnOr Fllgamer or whatever :P
19:04.11Hobinheim|workpowerleveling advert
19:05.59KirkburnWe're becoming too high profile :P
19:08.59Kirkburnlol, my level 24 pally housemate decided he was going to try and solo Shadowfang Keep
19:09.38Hobinheim|worklol isn't SFK around 20ish?
19:09.47Hobinheim|workyou can't solo something IN your bracket
19:09.59KirkburnSo he found out
19:10.37*** join/#wowwiki Montagg (i=a87aac72@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:10.37*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Montagg] by ChanServ
19:10.47equiraptorI solo'd part of BFD at lenel 24 on a warlock.
19:10.56Hobinheim|work"well, i could just be really really careful with my pulls right? and i've solo'ed elites before, how hard could it be"
19:11.12Hobinheim|worki just had to unguild my pally. i can't stand it!
19:11.24Hobinheim|workbody pulling = retarded
19:11.30Hobinheim|worki need a boomerang or some dynamic
19:11.42equiraptorCan you judge something to pull?
19:11.49equiraptorI was doing that on my level 10 pally...
19:12.05Hobinheim|work10 yards is already angry enough for yellows
19:12.16equiraptorAh, dang.
19:13.34Hobinheim|worki mean if you were quick with your shuffle, i guess...
19:13.43Hobinheim|workbut it's already like body pulling by that time
19:13.50Hobinheim|workomg and i'm so not used to moving while meleeing to create distance
19:14.19Hobinheim|workcuz ranged = distance already created
19:15.46TepetkhetBlood Elf paladins get mana tap.  You can use that to pull sometimes.
19:16.55Hobinheim|workfar and few between
19:17.06Hobinheim|workyou know that mana tap aggros but doesn't player-tap the mob?
19:17.21Hobinheim|worki.e. if you tag something with mana tap and someone else physically strikes it, its still their mob
19:17.24Hobinheim|workdamn you blizzard!
19:17.50TepetkhetI'm not used to pulling.
19:18.11TepetkhetI am used to getting a mob off by his little lonesome...
19:18.25TepetkhetFlashing my boobies to distract him, and then cheapshotting/ambushing him.
19:18.39TepetkhetEr, wait.
19:18.47TepetkhetI mean, tossing a rock to distract mobs.
19:19.09TepetkhetI was talking about mobs.  In game.
19:24.36MontaggHobinheim|work: It's because mana tap doesn't do any damage to the target. Have you tried mana tapping and then immediately silencing? Might tap; haven't tried.
19:24.56TepetkhetYou could judge maybe.
19:24.58TepetkhetRight away
19:25.09Hobinheim|workwell mana tap has a 20 yard lead on judge
19:25.11Tuqui-tuquihow dare you judge mobs you dont know >:{
19:25.24MontaggI just wand and/or searing touch, so not a problem for me.
19:25.40KirkburnI wonder what other instances they have planned for the CoT
19:26.04MontaggKirkburn: Are there areas for expansion down there? I've only gone down there once.
19:26.21KirkburnAt least one - behind a /ship/
19:26.40KirkburnAlso, I want a FP to the CoT :/
19:27.15Hobinheim|worksearing touch?
19:27.26MontaggWhatever it's called.
19:27.40MontaggSearing Pain.
19:27.55equiraptorMmm, searing touch...
19:28.03KirkburnAnother cool idea would be them to set questing regions in the past
19:28.07MontaggTwo warlocks to 60 and I still don't know the names of spells. =c)
19:28.22KirkburnI would really love to be able to quest from 70-80 in another time period =)
19:28.25MontaggKirkburn: Another zone in the past? Would be awesome.
19:28.49Hobinheim|workon my orclock i bound saering pain to =, but on all my blood elves i did the same thing. so conflicted!
19:30.00MontaggOh, boo. Equals is way too far away. I use it too often.
19:30.08Montagg6 for me.
19:30.11Hobinheim|worki us both my hands to play
19:30.21MontaggOne's always on the mouse for me.
19:30.22Hobinheim|workand i use probably every modifier
19:30.38MontaggESDF ftw
19:30.40Hobinheim|worki have things hot keyed that some players don't aggree should be hotkeyed
19:30.43TepetkhetI'm a lefty.
19:30.47TepetkhetNO esdf for me
19:30.48Hobinheim|workand as a general rule i try not to overwrite default keys
19:31.03Hobinheim|worklike strafe, SHEATH, SIT, target
19:31.15Hobinheim|workcuz we all know sheathing and sit are totally mission critical
19:31.18MontaggHobinheim|work: What do you have hotkeyed that shouldn't be?
19:31.42Hobinheim|workevery curse, cuz some people don't believe in anything that doesn't rhyme with agony
19:31.45MontaggI should have enslave hotkeyed. I use it enough in Outland.
19:31.54Hobinheim|workevery profession
19:32.16MontaggToo many buttons!
19:32.18Hobinheim|worki almost never click on anything
19:32.21Hobinheim|workor try not to
19:32.41Hobinheim|workunending. invis.
19:32.55Hobinheim|workgetting more and more esoteric. and i sitll have them bound
19:33.00Hobinheim|workwhat's confusing me is the playstyle of other specs
19:33.05Hobinheim|workcuz i know shadowburn will be important
19:33.15Hobinheim|workbut i already bound my "really important" keys to lifetap and shadowward
19:33.24Hobinheim|workimportant = back tick
19:33.29MontaggOnce I hit 61, I have SHIFT+SPACE ready for Shadowburn. Really satisfing WHACK when I kill someone.
19:34.46Hobinheim|workwow modifer space
19:34.49Hobinheim|worknever even though tof that
19:34.51Hobinheim|workhow does it feel?
19:35.07MontaggWell, I have my fingers on Shift, ESDF, and space constantly, so it made sense to me.
19:35.29Kirkburn"Submitting non-personal PC specification" ???
19:35.38KirkburnI think that message just came up when I logged in
19:35.46*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
19:36.15Kirkburn"Submitting non-personal system specification", even
19:36.19Hobinheim|workKirkburn, i saw that yesterday too
19:36.27MontaggHm. I didn't get that.
19:36.40KirkburnQuite brief
19:36.56KirkburnSounds like they want to know what PCs people are running WoW on
19:37.05KirkburnSteam does a similar thing, though that one is opt-in
19:37.33Hobinheim|workwell i think that message shows up every patch
19:37.45Hobinheim|worki don't blame them, it keeps them in touch with their market
19:38.02Hobinheim|work"holy shit someone's running wow on a 800mhz 128mb lappy!"
19:38.22Hobinheim|workmy brother's girlfriend's computer i think hit the ceiling for polygons
19:38.29Hobinheim|workgrass and the minimap would not render
19:38.32Hobinheim|workroads weren't visible
19:38.39Hobinheim|workshe was just walking on brown and gaps
19:38.50Hobinheim|workwhich sounds rediculous
19:39.12MontaggThat's awesome.
19:39.22TepetkhetI was running on an 800 MHz PIII for a while...but it had more than 128MB of RAM.
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19:41.13TepetkhetI think I had somewhere around 600MB.
19:42.05sancusI've played WoW on a PIII 733 with 256mb RAM
19:42.24sancusa geforce gts 64mb I think
19:42.38sancusI even raided molten core with it
19:42.45sancusIt was... sorta playable
19:42.56TepetkhetI did MC with it, too.
19:43.05TepetkhetI had to turn a lot of video options down.
19:43.14TepetkhetAnd every patch gets worse and worse.
19:43.29sancusIt didn't do as well in BWL because of the terrible design of that place
19:43.40TepetkhetI never went to BWL.  :(
19:43.45MontaggThat place produced a lot of weird video problems, I remember.
19:43.48TepetkhetI think I was killed by the dragonkin guards once.
19:43.55sancus"yes, it's OK to put 1000 whelps above Vael's room, such that they all load while you're fighting Vael and he's spamming his raid-wide DD"
19:43.57TepetkhetSo I hear.
19:44.37sancusthere were some lockups, yeah
19:44.37MontaggFoolish Blizzard. Why can't they just WoW into a rogue-like game. @
19:44.55Tuqui-tuquiI did UBRS last night :D
19:44.57Montagg*@* (Ding!)
19:45.05sancusThey just needed better loading occlusion, no reason for those things to load while you're in the room below them
19:45.19Hobinheim|workalthough, since rogue-hate is the new flavor of the week in heroic dungeons, i thought of rolling one, haha
19:45.24sancusthere haven't ever been any real major video performance problems, but their event system has screwed people's CPUs many many times
19:45.30MontaggHobinheim|work: Rogue-like = completely ASII art game where your character is represented by an @ symbol.
19:45.39Hobinheim|workoh lol
19:45.49Hobinheim|work"apostrophe crits you for 7"
19:46.12sancusvael used to run like shit until they fixed the event-spamming his nova caused
20:02.18MontaggSo did you guys read my Master Plan?
20:02.35Hobinheim|workthe only part that stuck out in my mind is the lack of the quest namespae
20:02.37MontaggAny initial thoughts?
20:02.43Hobinheim|worktwo things. one, if we changed it, thatw ould be a lot of work
20:02.52Hobinheim|worktwo, it already disambiguates quests named after items or NPCs
20:03.02Hobinheim|workthree, i kinda like keeping it stable so that seems sorta major
20:03.21Hobinheim|workfour, if there was less inertia going on, i'd probably agree with the sentiment
20:03.21MontaggI'm not completely set on that. Like you said, it does serve a practical purpose.
20:03.52MontaggAnd it's already an accepted convention.
20:06.55MontaggOh, one thing I should add... Quest lines within quest articles, similar to WoWHead. Some are lacking that.
20:09.52Hobinheim|worki forgot the name of the contriubter... but the one who most helped out with the nav bars
20:10.01Hobinheim|workmade this cool transclude convention
20:10.04Hobinheim|workwhich i liked  alot
20:10.14Hobinheim|workbasically no convention at all. just binding all the quest articles with the same transclude
20:10.20Hobinheim|workreally cool.
20:14.29MontaggDo you have a link? I'm not sure what you mean.
20:18.05Hobinheim|workedit that last section
20:22.49Hobinheim|worki'm not liking the new tooltip
20:22.55Hobinheim|worki wonder if that's a zeal movement or a tekkub movement
20:23.27Hobinheim|worklol polished raid graphics
20:23.29Hobinheim|workthat would be nice
20:23.42Hobinheim|workSEXY IMAGES ONLY. NO MS PAINT
20:24.10MontaggHobinheim|work: Perfect. I like it.
20:24.45MontaggWell, it's fine to start with MS paint, but people respond subliminally to the quality of what they're looking at.
20:24.55Montaggi.e., Apple.
20:25.20Hobinheim|workMontagg, i absolutely agree
20:25.34MontaggNot to say we would ever say, sexy images only, but it's something to strive for.
20:25.35Hobinheim|worklike that attunement chart for bc is absolute sex
20:25.41Hobinheim|workwhoever made it
20:25.45MontaggOhh yeah, I looove that.
20:25.56MontaggPerfect example of what I'm thinking of.
20:26.27MontaggAFK for a bit. Going to make myself foods.
20:28.44*** join/#wowwiki willskills (
20:31.33Tepetkhetoh poop
20:31.37TepetkhetI shouldn't have heard that.
20:31.50TepetkhetBoss's rent check bounced.
20:32.20equiraptorUh, yeah. You shouldn't have heard that. Ouch.
20:38.54TepetkhetFor the business.
20:43.01MontaggI usually drain life, but my roommates are out.
20:44.07MontaggEek. Not good, Tep.
20:44.20Hobinheim|workdrain life = "food"?
20:44.41Hobinheim|work"ugh... Montagg, i thought we were roommmates...." /roommate decays
20:46.49MontaggDran life = HP. Food = HP. Therefore, Drain life = food.
20:47.34MontaggWhy would I turn my roommate into a soul shard when he can regen life for me to drain again?
20:49.02Tuqui-tuquibecause you can get pretty good gold out of your roomate as a shard
20:49.12Tuqui-tuquioh wait... soul shard >.>
20:49.38MontaggI can summon a pet and get mana, but I need HP!
20:50.08MontaggIf only I had a mana battery in real life... I'd do so much better on tests.
20:51.07Tuqui-tuquifor grades?
20:51.11Tuqui-tuquiId summon a succubus
20:51.15Tuqui-tuquiseduce the teacher
20:51.21Tuqui-tuquiinstant A :D
20:52.09TepetkhetI still don't understand why I'm seduced by a succubus.
20:52.14MontaggOr, drain mana until professor doesn't have enough to cast Midterm (Rank 2).
20:52.50Tuqui-tuquiTepetkhet? Im still to being seduces by one =\
20:53.01Tuqui-tuquiI was whipped by one, but not seduces
20:53.15Tuqui-tuquimaybe Im not into sodomy
20:53.37TepetkhetI think you mean sadism.
20:53.40TepetkhetNot sodomy.
20:53.46Tuqui-tuquiyeah,,, I just googled
20:53.53Tuqui-tuquigotta google before I write
20:55.49Hobinheim|workdem sac the void
20:55.52Hobinheim|workhp forever!!!
21:02.44MontaggForever for thirty minutes!
21:13.32Tepetkhetuh oh
21:13.37TepetkhetBoss knows that I know about the check.
21:19.04equiraptoroh, joy.
21:37.58*** part/#wowwiki Montagg (i=a87aac72@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
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21:38.39TepetkhetCrap.  Out of flash powder.
21:39.05TepetkhetDefinitely need a new place to farm.
21:39.13TepetkhetThis place has lousy drops.  :/
21:44.27*** join/#wowwiki Bejitt (
21:50.24Bejittodd, i cant find any articles on class colors
21:52.39Hobinheim|workclass colors?
21:52.39Hobinheim|workin reagrds to?
21:59.28BejittWoW class' colors
21:59.38Bejittwhite for priest, etc
21:59.53Bejittthere it is
22:00.10equiraptorWhere did you find it? :)
22:00.28Bejittarticle /Class_colors
22:00.45Bejittdidnt show up when i searched >_<
22:01.17KirkburnWoot, neurtal with Netherwing
22:01.17equiraptorI see what you mean. I wonder what can be done about that
22:01.38MontaggDo more searches and click on it more?
22:01.45Bejittis there a fixed-width font on the wiki?
22:02.50MontaggI don't think there is by default.
22:03.32TepetkhetI think the hex code for the colours would look better in all caps.
22:04.12Bejitti'll stab it
22:04.16TepetkhetBecause FFFFFF looks better than ffffff
22:04.52Bejitt>.> and the "it's" is bothering me
22:04.55equiraptorSome of the text at the top of that page is it <tt>. I suspect you could do that for the hex code, too.
22:05.20Bejittoh good point
22:05.22equiraptorFix the it's, then. It's definitely an error. :)
22:05.57Bejitthaha i am
22:06.01equiraptorYay. :)
22:06.32equiraptorAre you capitalizing and <tt>ing the HEX, too?
22:06.38equiraptorI'm 100% pro both of those. :)
22:06.50equiraptor(As if my opinion held any weight)
22:07.42equiraptorwoot. I'll stop bugging you, then. ;)
22:07.48Hobinheim|worki don't understand what you mean, white is priests
22:07.51Hobinheim|workwhere are priests white
22:08.16Tuqui-tuquiin their pants!
22:08.18Bejittin most class colorings
22:08.22Tuqui-tuquibecause they never see the light!
22:08.31Bejittex: default raid frames
22:09.02equiraptorWhen you're in a raid and open the raid interface in the default UI, each character's name will be in a color. That color is determined by the character's class.
22:14.18Bejittok changes made
22:15.39Bejitti even lined everything up :P
22:16.04Tuqui-tuquioooh :o
22:16.08Tuqui-tuquipaladins are pink
22:16.33equiraptorFancy, Bejitt. :)
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22:35.11KirkburnSo the Ashbringer may have been formed from part of a naaru
22:38.22KirkburnSee the Ashbringer page
22:38.32KirkburnThere's /extremely/ good evidence for it
22:45.36MontaggIf the Ashbringer is not yet obtainable... How does it have stats?
22:46.57MontaggAnd why is the entire population of historically important figures, events, and objects located in Southshore when Thrall escapes from Durnhold?
22:53.09nemppufreak coincidence
22:53.14nemppuit happens in IRL
22:53.20nemppubut if it's in a game you question it
22:54.22MontaggI question it becaus Southshore was never a historically important place. It never even existed until WoW.
22:55.54nemppuyou probably figured by now whole warcraft lore is built on the way
22:55.56Montaggit's much more likely that Kel'Thuzad, and the Ashbringer crystal, would have been in Dalaran and not Soutshore.
22:55.57nemppustuff change
22:56.15MontaggWell, I know why it's there: So players can see it. But that doesn't mean it's plausible.
22:56.15nemppuwell maybe they were traveling to Dalaran but needed a rest
22:56.24nemppuand they hit the southshore inn
22:57.17MontaggThe coincidence (whatever it is) is created by Blizzard to give the player access to historical figures. That doesn't forgive how incredibly artificial it is.
23:01.32Hobinheim|workboo who didn't accomplish anything at work today, again
23:01.47Hobinheim|workif my internet works when i get home, we can get to part two of that bc template thing
23:01.51Hobinheim|workand maybe get some work done =(
23:02.06nemppuMontagg you take the fantasy too seriously
23:03.00nemppuwarcraft is all about "bulky armored dudes and monsters."
23:03.10nemppuand has always been
23:04.25MontaggJust because the style's artificial doesn't mean the events always are. In fact, most of the time they aren't.
23:05.41*** join/#wowwiki Karrion (
23:05.46MontaggWoW started a trend of the story being subservient to the game, which wasn't the case prior. So I wouldn't say I'm taking it any more or less seriously than the game itself does.
23:06.17nemppuall the key people being in ss isnt even retarded
23:06.19nemppudoesnt even bother me
23:06.22nemppubut know what's retarded?
23:06.49MontaggHehe. Well, bad guys die all the time.
23:06.59nempputheyre not bad t_t
23:07.16MontaggThey are when the game needs bad guys.
23:08.10nemppui always liked the a bit of realistic yet hidden aspect of WoW with the subjective "evilness"
23:08.22nemppulike humen vs orcs
23:08.48MontaggAs did I.
23:08.56nemppuorcs move to kalimdor so they wouldnt have any more conflicts with the humen having gotten rid of the bloodlust
23:09.00nemppuhumen sail to kalimdor to kill orcs
23:09.07nemppuso which party is the evil, eh?
23:09.09ggilbertI like that even the naruu have a hint of evilness to them
23:09.35nemppuoh, havent discovered that, please do tell
23:09.37Montaggggilbert, I don't think that's intentional on Blizzard's part. Although I know where you're coming from.
23:10.43KarrionNaruu are creepy as
23:11.19KarrionI don't trust any being that claims to be entirely altruistic, _everyone_ has some level of self interest
23:11.33ggilbertnemppu: They give me a  vibe of using the Draenei as pawns in their war. There's a quest giver in Netherstorm that says something to that effect. The flavor text whenever you try talking to the big Naruu by Khadgar also sets me on edge.
23:11.41ggilbertYou get no response but just feel satisfied
23:12.02nemppuso sweet
23:12.31ggilbertThere's probably other stuff that isn't popping into my head
23:13.02Karrionthere's also the quest line involving the injured naruu in Oshu'gun
23:13.31ggilbertOh? I saw the Naruu down there, but could never find a quest for it
23:13.38Montaggggilbert, Depending on the quest giver, that just might be him expressing his character, not necessarily an objective evaluation of the naaru.
23:14.01ggilbertThat's true
23:14.04MontaggBut you're right, I get the same creepy vibe. Although I don't think it's Blizzard's intention to give it to me. It's too subtle.
23:14.20nemppui think it is
23:14.24ggilbertI can;t remember who exactly it was
23:14.35nempputhere's so much hidden symbolism and references to WoW
23:14.37nemppuits great
23:14.40MontaggI think it's more my desire to have it BE creepy that it exists. =c) I want Blizzard to pick up moral ambiguity again.
23:15.38Montaggnemppu, Lots of pop references. But hidden symbolism...? Don't think there's much of that.
23:15.40Karrionggilbert: I think it's part of the mag'har chain
23:16.01nemppusymbolism is the wrong word, i apologize
23:16.28ggilbertKarrion: I believe so. It was Kaylaan
23:16.41ggilbertI just dug the text up on thott.
23:19.42*** join/#wowwiki Montagg_ (
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23:43.07MontaggI'm in the mood for sushi tonight.
23:46.11MontaggAnyone going to see 300 tonight?

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