irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070302

00:03.51Zeali know what it looks like inside.
00:03.57Zealrather vividly, heh.
00:10.38Bagginswwya it has a sewer section
00:10.42Bagginswwon the rightside
00:11.31Zealthat's the bit you do with the naga :)
00:11.54Zealthey're good at sewer infiltration ;)
00:12.29Zealif naga ever becoem playable that has to be a spell..
00:14.08ZealSewer Infiltration: Stealths you and increases swim speed by 100%
00:15.26Zealhave naga vs aquatic form races . Druid: "haha, i'm winning, he's so far behind i can't even see him anymore!" :p
00:16.43ZealNow i need to gather all that BC info about WC3..
00:18.41nemppuif naga ever became playable i'd reroll naga quite very fast ;___;
00:19.19Zealmale for female? XD
00:19.42nemppumale warrior. yeah, i know that their society is patriarchic :P
00:20.10nemppui've no idea im too tired to think
00:20.16nemppufemale pwned anyhow
00:21.07nemppubut think about this: how would the naga sit on a gryphon/wyvern?:P
00:21.21nemppuor what would their mount look like
00:22.24Zealpussy whipped? ;)
00:22.38Zealmatriarchic, yeah.
00:23.12Zealwell, i'd want them to not be in horde alliance, so new mounts would be ok.
00:23.18Zeal*or alliance
00:23.30Zeal*taxi mounts
00:23.45nemppuif only blizzard had made an illidan -faction :/
00:23.51Zealtheir mount.. snapdragon or er.. coatil or w/e
00:24.09nemppuyeah but how do they attach to it? :D
00:24.21nemppusnap dragon is actually pretty good, except that its a turtle :X
00:24.25nempputortoise actually
00:24.37Zealw/e they are called in wc3
00:24.42Zealthe aligators.
00:25.01nemppucant remember any alligators
00:25.15Zealnope, i was right
00:25.18Zealit is snap dragon
00:25.28nemppusnap dragon was a red tortoise, no?
00:25.31Zealyou're thinking og dragon turtle
00:26.19Zeal their taxi perhaps
00:26.28Zealflying mount too possibly.
00:26.49nemppuon top of that, with a pair of reins coming from the mouth
00:27.02Zealbut yeah.. i forsee laying over the mount, wrapping the end of their tail around ther waist of the mount.
00:27.16nempputhat did cross my mind
00:30.00Zealgunna get na edit conflict now :P
00:31.07BagginswwI know... The black steps that that you come out of when you first reach hellfire pennsinsula
00:31.14Bagginswwthat's Black Citadel, LOL
00:31.22Bagginswwthey roughly look similar heh heh, ;)
00:31.43Bagginswwand it is a ziggurat in form LOL
00:34.31Bagginswwwowwiki is down :p
00:34.46Bagginswwok its loading now :p
00:49.54ZealBagginsww, mind giving it a once over for me?
00:50.04Bagginswwwhat I could see isn't bad
00:50.21Bagginswwalthough fix the second quoation, the blockquote looks bad
00:50.32Bagginswwtoo much tabing
00:50.52Zeallooks fine to me :s
00:51.15Bagginswwits fixed you must have edited
00:51.16Zealsupposed to be out of order with normal text.
00:51.20Zealnope :s
00:51.31Bagginswwalthough context of the second sentence should be explained
00:52.56Zealwell i didn't want to use what you wrote, as that's not really applicable for the main article, as it's anaylzing it really.
00:53.20Zealone sec
00:53.28Zealgunna move it into the body of the history.
00:54.39Bagginswwwork better there
00:57.33*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
01:01.47Zealokay.. now to incorperate everything from HFC..
01:08.37Zealbah, wasn't much
01:09.13BagginswwI wonder if Dark Factions will delve deeper into it
01:09.26Zealnow to add the speculation link up.. heh.
01:12.51bleetahI *must* learn to stop misreading NPC profession 'Fletcher' :/
01:13.16Bagginswwalmost halfway compiling info from monster guide supplment into wowwiki
01:15.40bleetahif you need to ask that question, you don't wanna know
01:15.52Zeallol, i know
01:15.57Zealthough i did have to remind myself
01:16.27bleetahsomeone infected me with that thought in the first week of playing.. i've never got it out of my head since :(
01:20.00FinYou don't have permission to access /Image:Bcattunement.jpg on this server.
01:20.05FinApache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server at Port 80
01:21.00Zealfine for me :s
01:21.53Finhave I been naughty?
01:23.23Zealbut i noticed the previous revision link is lacking an image on the end of it, so just gives 403
01:23.44Zealthat's possibly what's going on
01:24.02Zealrefresh without cache, should fix
01:24.26Zealcos your cache is probably still trying to use that old revision
01:40.45Zealok, gunna play that TFT mission quickly
01:42.54BagginswwJoined: 17 Jan 2007
01:42.54BagginswwPosts: 6
01:42.58BagginswwEdited due to suggestion that people commit illegal acts.
01:43.00BagginswwPlease do not continue to violate the forum use terms that you agreed to follow.
01:47.21Zealgg WW
01:47.48*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
01:47.57Zeali haven't once suggest someone do anything. i've said those who did, i'm pleased, and that i think they are justified to.
01:48.26Zealand i never agreed to the ToU, that was never once presented to be during or before signing up and using the forums.
01:48.32Zeal*to mwe
01:52.04Bagginswwadded weasel LOL
01:52.45Bagginswwwell I think the admins are poor editors, all they had to do was remove the offending paragraph
01:52.54Bagginswwthey don't even bother to edit people who copy from you LOL
01:53.10Bagginswwthose people should get warnings for spreading your quotes LOL
01:53.28Bagginswwmaybe its a bot
01:53.42Bagginswwlooks for things in your posts and just removes the entire post
01:53.58Bagginswwbut then again that would affect peopl;e who copy you
01:54.03*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
01:56.11Zealaye, heh.
01:57.37BagginswwSpecial Thanks
01:57.37BagginswwTo cows and chickens, because I eat them.
01:57.37Bagginsww– Luke Johnson
02:03.40*** join/#wowwiki cladhaire (n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire)
02:07.29Bagginswwyep the portals are int eh wrong spot in TFT LOL
02:07.42Bagginswwdon't even match up with other sources that state they are elsewhere :p
02:08.37Zealhaha, immolation can kill dranei despite being allies, gg.
02:09.03Zealit matches WC2 Bagginsww
02:09.16Zealguess you didn't read what i sent you earlier
02:09.30BagginswwIts later osurces that moved ner'zhul's portals
02:09.42BagginswwI suppose
02:18.19Zealwell it got it from the transcript of the mission
02:18.26Zealand it seemed father particular about it
02:19.26*** join/#wowwiki Psyker7 (n=Psyker7@
02:21.58*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (
02:21.58*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ
02:22.40BagginswwIt would make more sense if they made black citadel something else that was destroyeed before BC. That is if they went back to the portals being opened around hellfire
02:23.05BagginswwIt doesn't fit hellfire citadel, that's int he wrong location
02:23.21Bagginswwand construction isn't even close
02:23.50Bagginswwif you have time zeal you should take some more screenshots of the black citadel
02:24.01Bagginswwaquaduct sections, magtheridon's throne section, etc
02:32.00Zealit's in the right location for HFC tbh.
02:32.20Zealand don't forget to take into consideration the w3c maps sucked.
02:33.17Bagginswwactually its in the location of old dark portal, not HFC
02:33.37Bagginswwnote the shape of the mountains
02:33.43Bagginswwand compare with the map of old draenor
02:34.03Bagginswwalthough I agree warcraft 3 maps suck
02:34.10*** join/#wowwiki Bejitt- (
02:35.23Bagginswwactually in some ways the location of the black citadel is kind of closer to where the "hand of gul'dan" is located in NW hellfire
02:36.00Bagginsww anycase keep track of where that penninsula of a mountain is located
02:36.11BagginswwThe one between the two Draenei Villages
02:36.41Bagginswwlook at where that pensinula of mountains is located in the warcraft II map
02:36.58Bagginswwalso note where hellfire citadel was located
03:08.26Kirkburn|afkGood morning!
03:08.48Kirkburn|afkI slept for most of the evening :)
03:08.54Zeallol i noticed
03:08.56Zealhey Kirkburn|afk
03:09.27Kirkburn|afkTime for some food :)
03:10.55Bagginswwhey kirkburn I've slowly been adding material from the Monster Guide supplement for your perusal LOL
03:11.35ZealTekkub, i've known some blizz employee's to visit some more.. unsavoury sites ;)
03:11.49Zealbut they've never announced their presence ofc :p
03:12.09Tekkubyea we all know the Tauren design team are furries
03:12.13Tekkubwhat's your point?
03:12.33Zealjust commenting on your post on the village pump is all :P
03:13.16Kirkburn|afkBagginsww, cool
03:13.37Kirkburn|afkI'm in the middle of a 2 day design exercise atm
03:13.39BagginswwYou missed the laughs from when I was posting up exact quotes earlier LOL
03:14.47Kirkburn|afkWhat's that bit zeal got slapped for?!
03:15.04BagginswwI don't know what to think of mention of the breed of horse, "Arabians" but then again Palomino and Pintos are kind of ripped from earth as well...
03:15.09Zealhuh? :S
03:15.37Bagginswwoh zeal was saying he agreed with people who thought it was ok to still the supplement
03:15.42Bagginswwand they removed everything in his post
03:15.50Bagginswwmost of it had nothing to do with stealing material
03:16.30Kirkburn|afkBtw, just so people know England =/= UK :)
03:17.19Kirkburn|afkWas he saying how to steal it?
03:17.27Kirkburn|afkOr just saying that he agrees?
03:17.39Zealnor did i say "hey everyone, go steal it!"
03:17.44BagginswwSure England is only one small part of the UK
03:18.01Kirkburn|afkSilly OTT admining
03:18.03BagginswwHe just said he understood while some people do it
03:18.27Zealdid even say i would do it
03:18.41Kirkburn|afk"Oh my god, he has an opinion I disapprove of, but is justifiable! We must do something drastic!"
03:18.44Zealjust that i understand it, and i think they're justified in doing so.
03:22.11Zealdammit, gotta stop trying to use mouse gestures on all windows x_X;
03:22.25Kirkburn|afkLol - our Prime Minister -
03:22.34Kirkburn|afkNote what he's doing with his hand ^^
03:25.41Finwell guys
03:25.46FinI'm sorry but I have to leave you for now
03:26.18Finit was real
03:26.28BagginswwThey look like the entire cast that played DR. Who over the years, ;)
03:26.30Finsorry for all the mistells and irrelevance and er stuff
03:26.40*** part/#wowwiki Fin (
03:26.57ZealBagginsww, does anything say what happens between the Black Temple being called Fortress Shadowmoon (When Ner'zhul takes over) and back to Black Temple (When Illidan takes over) again?
03:27.17Zealie, why someone would think Ruins of Shadowmoon where the ruins of it.
03:27.35Bagginswwto be honest besides warcraft II< nothing mentionst he term fotress shadowmoon again.
03:27.44Bagginswwand black temple was never mentioned before
03:27.50Bagginswwnot unto ROTH and BC
03:27.52Zealany info about the ruins though?
03:28.11ZealKirkburn|afk, which ones's tony?
03:28.12BagginswwI don't even think they get refrtenced in quests in TFT
03:28.21Bagginswwits jsut a really strange existence on hte map
03:28.41Kirkburn|afkYeah, I think so too, Zeal :P
03:28.46Bagginswwmade even stranger since Hellfire isn't really known for being shadowmoon lands
03:29.06Zeallol @ hand
03:29.35Zealjsut trying to summerize this so people cna start forming the speculation page in full and get a discussion going
03:33.39ZealKirkburn|afk, is Daz a white supremacist group? ;)
03:34.30Kirkburn|afk("It washes whiter than white"_
03:35.12Kirkburn|afkForgot my dinner, brb
03:39.24Kirkburn|afk"Support for Steam on Windows 98 and Windows ME operating systems will end on June 30th 2007. This means you will no longer be able to run Steam."
03:39.39cladhairei like steam, its hot.
03:40.16Bagginswwahh zeal all refrences to "fel orcs" should state chaos orcs to be be accurate with warcraft 3 setting
03:40.24Bagginswwbtw monster guide confirms chaos orc as a valid definition
03:40.38Zealis there a difference, or just alternative names?
03:40.55Bagginswwthe terms are interchangeable definition essentially. Though fel orcs tend to be even more mutated
03:40.59Zealif the latter, doesn't matter, no need to stikc with WC3 context
03:41.16Zealhence why i changed Draenei to Broken.
03:41.39Bagginswwwell its that these articles link back to warcraft 3 unit pages too
03:42.04Bagginswwand the term "broken" is something that's developed recently.
03:42.32Bagginswwat the time they were still calling themselves draenei
03:43.06Kirkburn|afkMore accurately, Blizz were still calling them the draenei :P
03:43.23BagginswwIn BC you get refrences to how they are all "draenei"
03:43.36Bagginswwthough it depends on the character, some see them as draenei
03:43.41Bagginswwother seem them as being something else
03:43.52Bagginswwbigotry and such
03:44.04Kirkburn|afk"Actually, Malfurion isn't a night elf, he's actually an avatar of a demon god. Oh yes, he's been fooling you all this time. Oh and he's a shaman."
03:44.22Kirkburn|afkRetcons :)
03:44.27Zeal <-- Bagginsww, give that a once over/comment for me :p
03:44.53Kirkburn|afkI'm just being silly ... the Broken are indeed draenei
03:45.00Bagginswwwell you mispelled Karabor
03:45.25Kirkburn|afkZeal, you fule! You fulish fule!
03:46.27ZealBagginsww, i've written the article from a source neutral PoV, it doesn't matter if the information is from WC3 or from WC, it's gunna be written with the most up to date terminology to user's can follow it, except in cases where there is an unresolved issue.
03:48.58Zeal*so user's
03:49.27Bagginswwdoes it say that the portals were opene dup on hellfire in BC?
03:49.28Zeallol Kirkburn|afk
03:49.40BagginswwI thought BC implied they were opened up in shadowmoon valley :p
03:50.04Bagginswwone of those conversations with Danith Trollbane
03:50.12Kirkburn|afkWhat portals?
03:50.14BagginswwNer'zhul opens new portals in Hellfire Peninsula and throughout Deanor, tearing Draenor appart. (WC2, WoW:BC)
03:50.21Zealand you mentioend the first part of the sentence
03:50.24Kirkburn|afkAh that
03:50.43Kirkburn|afkAll over the place afaik
03:50.46BagginswwFirst apperance of Black Citadel, located roughly* where Hellfire Citadel is, no mention of it's past, ruled by Magtheridon (WC3:TFT)
03:50.53Kirkburn|afkThere are 4 dead portals around Outland
03:50.54Bagginswwactually its east of the mountains where hellfire citadel was located
03:51.15Bagginswwisntead of being in one place they are all over hte place
03:51.17Kirkburn|afkIt's kinda around where the Throne of Kil'jaeden is now
03:51.25ZealWC2 says they were in HP, right next to the Dark Portal. It also says they opened up in the skies and all over draenor. BC shows that they are open in random places throughout Outland, and the whole sky is now ofc twisting nether.
03:51.25Bagginswwya kirkburn
03:51.32Kirkburn|afkWhich confuses the issue futher still
03:51.51Bagginswwya kirkburn the "dark citadel" is closer to where throne of kil'jaeden is
03:52.10Bagginswwin warcraft 3 map I mean
03:52.12Kirkburn|afkI think most were opened in HFP, hence the massive destruction around there, but due to the destruction, they no longer exist
03:52.13Zealdark? lol
03:52.36Zeali should ad Illidan shut down all the ones around BC.
03:54.07Bagginswwhellfire citadel was always left of that northern island of mountains
03:54.10Bagginswwint he warcraft II Map
03:54.21Bagginswwthat little island shows up in the warcraft 3 map as well
03:54.35Bagginswwalthough we don't really see much of the land west of that mountain range
03:54.39Bagginswwin the warcraft 3 map
03:54.50Bagginswwblack citadel is decidedly east of that range
03:55.11Zealrotate WC3 make of HFP 90 degress anti-clock wise
03:55.19Zealit matches WC2 fine.
03:55.22Bagginswwcloser to where "throne of kil'jaiden"
03:55.43Bagginswwbah I have ot show you with a bad paint cirlces...
03:55.49Bagginswwyou don't even have a clue what I'm talking about
03:55.52Kirkburn|afkOoh, this seems somewhat awesomely political -
03:56.40Kirkburn|afkWC2 and WC3 treated Dreanor much like Middle Earth - just showed one side so it /could/ be expanded later :P
03:57.02Zeallmao @ comic
03:57.37Zeali shall wack up my photoshop skills for ya baggins :P
03:57.53Zeala map of HFP in WoW would also be handy.. think i have that somewhere
03:58.49Bagginswwcan you make out hte circles?
03:59.34BagginswwIf you look at those corresponding mountain ranges you can see that Black Citadel is roughtly where Dark Portal is located
03:59.43Bagginswwor at least near throne of kiljaiden
03:59.45Bagginswwin current map
03:59.50Zealrotate it Bagginsww
03:59.59Zealand you'll see why that doesn't need to be the case
04:00.34Bagginswwif I rotate it then its not even close to the warcraft II map at all
04:02.32Zealthe mounstains change shape
04:02.34Zealthat's all
04:02.50ZealWC2 is hardly accurate, and we know wc3 certainly isn't
04:02.58Zealbut rotated, it matches layout
04:03.06Zealwhich is the only thing that is consistant
04:03.08Bagginswwno it doesnt
04:03.56Bagginswwthe warcraft 3 map is only rotated approximatley 30 degrees off the warcraft II map
04:04.19Bagginswwthe peninsual of mountain is in the norht, and the strip of mountain is still int he south
04:04.31Bagginswwbut the line going between them is off by 30 degrees
04:04.56Kirkburn|afkThere's also the large lack of gap between HFP and SMV
04:05.49Kirkburn|afkEssentially, the pre BC maps are crap :)
04:06.00Bagginswwya, thats if we assume the "shadowmoon ruins" is supposed to be the old shadowmoon lands
04:06.45Bagginswwin that map the hellifre citadel is still west of the peninsula mountains like in the other map I showed you
04:07.54Kirkburn|afkWhen they made the maps for WC3, they never really paid much attention to consistency
04:08.04Kirkburn|afkIt was much more about the style
04:08.17Kirkburn|afkPlus it only had to vaguely fit with the game map
04:08.45Kirkburn|afkThe WC3 stuff for Quel'thalas is also somewhat messed up
04:09.54Kirkburn|afkThe WC3 map /could/ work if you assume that more damage occured between then and now
04:10.08Kirkburn|afkAnd say that the two mountain ranges have basically gone boom
04:10.27Kirkburn|afkLeaving the HFP/SMV gap
04:10.35*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
04:10.57Kirkburn|afkSay that North point bottom left on the WC3 map
04:11.39Kirkburn|afkHowever, if we go with that ... that retcons the WC2 map which we know to be accurate
04:12.06Bagginswwactually warcraft II map isn't entirelya ccurate anymore
04:12.13BagginswwAchindoun is a completley different spot
04:12.18Kirkburn|afkA damn sight more accurate than the WC3 one!
04:12.52Kirkburn|afkWas meaning the shape of the land though, mostly :P
04:12.55Kirkburn|afkDo you see what I mean about how to make the WC3 map fit?
04:13.02Kirkburn|afkI think I was saying the same as Zeal
04:13.32Bagginswwnow let's looka t the new map
04:13.46Bagginswwpools of aggonar are right aorund where the "peninsula mountain" range is
04:13.54Bagginswwthat I circled earlier
04:13.57Bagginswwbut what's this?
04:14.05Bagginswwhellfire citadel moved south of it
04:14.24Kirkburn|afkTiny retcon, but yeah
04:14.36Bagginswwbasically none of the maps can be trusted
04:15.05Kirkburn|afkWe need a Q&A session with Metzen :)
04:15.07Bagginswwif we assume hellfire citadel is black citadel we have to assume it moved around like the beuty mark on prince john...
04:18.45Bagginswwso let's look at version 2
04:18.57BagginswwOde to prince joh
04:19.45Kirkburn|afkBasically stuff move to where it suits Blizz :)
04:20.01Kirkburn|afkI'm more interested in whether Deathwing's island makes an appearence
04:20.07Kirkburn|afkOr perhaps the Warsong island
04:20.09*** join/#wowwiki Psyker7_ (n=Psyker7@
04:20.19Bagginswwwarsong island?
04:20.20Kirkburn|afkDefinate content patch updates, those could be
04:20.30Bagginswwgood point
04:20.54BagginswwI'd like to know what used to exist west of draenor though heh he.
04:21.15Kirkburn|afkIt would make a nice change to actually get new areas as part of a patch
04:21.22Bagginswwbtw kirkburn nagrand was supposed to be as damaged as hellfire
04:21.27Bagginswwits just regrown
04:21.31Zealuploading now
04:21.33Kirkburn|afkOh yes?
04:21.59Bagginswwsure ignore the direction of the words
04:22.10Bagginswwand that's horrible ugly
04:22.47Bagginswwand you ignored shape of the moutanin ranges :p
04:23.05Bagginswwthere were certain things that sorta matched up if you leave north and south alone
04:23.12Zealofc i ignored them
04:23.14Bagginswwinstead of turning it upside down :p
04:23.22Zealnone of them match
04:23.25BagginswwI doubt that's what the designers had in mind
04:23.38ZealWC changes mountains to suit the game, WoW changes mountains to suit the game
04:23.49Zealand not lal maps point norther baggins
04:23.59Bagginswwif I could transparify one or both of the maps I could show you how they fit on top of each other
04:24.06Bagginswwbut not as much as you did
04:24.43Zealwell i just looked at you recent map
04:24.50Zealwhich makes no sense at all
04:25.03Bagginswwbecause you just aren't seeing what I'm asying
04:25.21Zealbecause you're seeing things that aren't there ;)
04:25.39Bagginswwor you missed what we were discussing
04:25.44Zealyou'e mataching agaisnt mountain ranges that have changed since the destructions and have changed for gameplay reasons.
04:25.46Bagginswwwhile you ere doing that graphics
04:26.06Bagginswwthere are certain aspects of warcraft 3 and warcraft ii maps that are similar
04:26.26Bagginswwthe peninsula of mountains was one of them
04:28.29Zealand nothing you disccussed changed anything
04:28.41Zealif anything, Kirkburn|afk was supporting a different idea :P
04:29.17Zealanyways, wanna update with that better wc2 map
04:30.23Kirkburn|afkWow, Zeal, totally different to my idea
04:30.33Zealaye, i thought so
04:30.50Kirkburn|afkI was trying to put the Black Citadel where the Black Temple is :P
04:30.56Bagginswwcan you see the lines?
04:31.02Zealeither way, the point is, none of the maps match exactly, and shouldn't be used as evidence considering that fact.
04:31.04*** join/#wowwiki Laraul (
04:31.33LaraulWoW really really really needs controller support!
04:31.47Kirkburn|afkThat's true  - it's evident the maps do not show a 'correct' solution
04:32.01Kirkburn|afkLaraul, it has that! Mouse and keyboard :P
04:32.07Zealas i said Bagginsww, you're comparising (very loosly) to mountain ranges thaat have been torn apart, and have gone through two game itterations of change.
04:32.22Kirkburn|afkSo are you, remember :P
04:32.36LaraulNo a controller! A joypad! Like the PSX or Obox360 controller
04:32.39Bagginswwand Im' not turnign maps unside...
04:32.44Bagginswwand inside out
04:32.47Zealno, i compared between all 3 and identified similarities that have stayed consistant.
04:32.50Bagginswwonly comparing artists renditions
04:33.09Kirkburn|afkThe fact all 3 of us have come up with different solutions says something ...
04:33.14Zealindeed Kirkburn|afk
04:33.35Kirkburn|afkLaraul, you'd only be able to use a tiny number of spells then :P
04:34.37Laraulyou'd be able to access every spell, macro, ability, etc easily
04:34.46Larauleasily and quickly
04:36.06Laraulusing the keyboard/mouse for such long periods of times makes me sore
04:37.33Laraulmy wrists get sore... my back gets sore
04:41.10Kirkburn|afkThis news story si just stupid -
04:41.35ZealBagginsww, just a thought, upload new versions over old ones :p
04:41.36Kirkburn|afk"A "critical" vulnerability in Microsoft's Xbox 360 video game console could let an attacker run unauthorized software on machines that haven't been fixed, assuming the individual has physical access to the machine."
04:41.49Zealrofl Kirkburn|afk
04:41.49Kirkburn|afkRead that sentence, and concentrate on the last clause.
04:42.28Kirkburn|afkLaraul, would be cool, I do agree
04:43.16ZealWhats next, there's a curitical vulnerdability that allows an attacker to smash it to bits, assuming they have physicall access to it? :p
04:43.30Laraulblizz needs to add the ability to mimic keypresses, mouse clicks and mouse positions thru lua
04:43.38BagginswwI did uplaod new versions over old ones zeal
04:43.42Zealcuritical? crutons!
04:43.55Kirkburn|afkMmm, crutons
04:44.11Zeali've sen like 5 different links from you Bagginsww :P
04:44.20Zealthey've all been new uploads
04:44.22BagginswwI had 4 seperate picutures total
04:44.28Bagginswwand they are intended to be different
04:44.34Zeal4 is like 5 -1 so that's ok ;)
04:44.42Bagginswwthere isn't a 5th one
04:44.47Bagginswwexcept the one I copied over
04:44.49Kirkburn|afkI know people have managed to use Wiimotes on a PC :)
04:45.00infobotI've got a lovely bunch of coconuts, there they are all standing in a row. Big ones, small ones, some as big as your head, give them a twist, a flick of the wrist, that's what the showman said!
04:45.14ZealBagginsww, the 5 thing was a joke..
04:48.44BagginswwWhat is that castle symbole on the throne of kil'jaiden?
04:49.03Kirkburn|afkSoyn amazes me, day after day -
04:49.05Zealso baggins, according to BC is located at the Throne of Ki'Jaeden and the mountain range you're so eager to match up is that small hill side with a draenei village on it?
04:50.00Bagginswwthat hillside that has two draenei villages one on each side
04:50.25Kirkburn|afkThe Temple of Telhamat could count as one
04:51.20Kirkburn|afkThere's the SW abandoned draenei town in HFP now too (I forget the name, near the Cenarion Outpost)
04:51.34Kirkburn|afkNothing around Thrallmar afaik
04:51.58Bagginswwalthough both of these villages get destroyed I think
04:52.02Bagginswwin the campaign
04:52.09Bagginswwthey are just the broken style huts
04:52.09Kirkburn|afkAh okay
04:52.37Bagginswwwell "lost ones" technically
04:52.50Bagginswwif we want to go into how blizzard has decided to change architecture around a bit
04:53.21Kirkburn|afkThe whole draenei backstory wasn't written at the time anyway, at least not how we know it today
04:53.53Zeali'm talking in how you've placed Hellfire Citadel (BC).
04:54.15Zeal*about how
04:54.25ZealKirkburn|afk, so they made up the rumour themselves? :S
04:54.32Bagginswwhellfire citadel is south of pools of aggonar
04:54.36Bagginswwin BC
04:54.51Bagginswwwhich is the closest equivalant outcropping of land
04:55.05Bagginswwthat resembles the "hillside" as you put it
04:55.31Kirkburn|afkZeal, Sony PR just acted like idiots. You can't control the press, especially regarding rumours, so don't try
04:55.59Zealno Kirkburn|afk.. i'm trying to grasp an overlooked fact here which rips Kotaku's stance apart
04:56.09Kirkburn|afkWhat's that?
04:56.12Zealit said they created the rumour, they were not reporting it
04:56.19Bagginswwrumor about what?
04:56.19Kirkburn|afkBagginsww, I linked a story earlier
04:56.52Zealthat is not a journalist, that is anti-sony RP doen of purpose. Thus Sony were right.
04:57.05Bagginswwxbox 360 has avatars not as interesting as mii but similar
04:57.29Zealok, i misread, they didn't make it.
04:57.33Zealso that's fine.
04:57.39Kirkburn|afkIndeed :)
04:57.55Bagginswwsony threats?
04:58.03Kirkburn|afkSony's reaction was way over the line
04:58.13ZealBagginsww, how does the Throne of Ki'jaeden not apply to the out cropping?
04:58.27Kirkburn|afkI can't understand their frustration, but ... "eek" :P
04:58.37Bagginswwya kirkburn
04:58.58Zealyou've shifted the BC version to a smaller range of hills, when it's quite clear HFC is west of a large range, which thus matches the Throne of Ki'jaden perfectly.
04:59.07Bagginswwfirst off Throne of Kil'Jaeden didn't even exist in earlier history. So can't really incorporate it well
04:59.18Zealbut the mountains did
04:59.32Bagginswwnah the throne of kil'jaeden is farter east
04:59.34Zealthat there was a place in those mountains, no.
04:59.46ZealBaggins, you're forgetting scaling here
04:59.54Zealthe distances aren't going to match of a ruler
05:00.05Kirkburn|afkIt's all guesses, c'mon
05:00.17Zealyet you completely ignore that and go the other way, and say BC has it directly shouth, not ast
05:00.32Zealso clearly you're being rather biased there and ignoring the facts right in front of you.
05:00.59LaraulApple and Nintendo really should make a partnership... they are so much a like
05:01.17Kirkburn|afkGod no, Apple is way more up itself :P
05:01.26Kirkburn|afkApple and Sony maybe ;)
05:02.07LaraulApple and Nintendo are both the inovators in their industries. They are the ones who think outside the box and make it work
05:02.07Kirkburn|afkZeal, this is all guesses, and what the WC2 and WC3 maps show means relatively little
05:02.21BagginswwOk let's looka t your way let's say the hill is throne of kil'jaeen
05:02.36Kirkburn|afkNo, I don't agree Apple are particularly innovators
05:02.42Bagginswwthat makes hellfire citadel west of the throne of kil'jaeden
05:02.45Kirkburn|afkRefiners, perhaps
05:02.45Zeali know Kirkburn|afk, but i don't want to see it being twisted to be use ad evidence against.
05:02.50Bagginswwok that's in line with wc2 map sure
05:03.05Bagginswwbut black citadel was "east" of the "throne" in WC#
05:03.15Bagginswwin an area that is twistin nether
05:03.18Bagginswwin BC
05:03.33Bagginswwnothing east of hill
05:03.57Bagginswwthe problem zeal is you saying my pictures are twistin evidence against you
05:04.02Bagginswwthat's not my intent
05:04.02Kirkburn|afkOmg, the Citadel fell off Outland?!?! \o/
05:04.08BagginswwI'm only putting up one possibility
05:04.13Bagginswwya kirburn that's possible heh heh
05:04.24Bagginswwwhy else did illidan move from it?
05:04.27Kirkburn|afkNo wonder Magtheridon is pissed off ;)
05:04.42Bagginswwcause illidan was living in it not long before WoW
05:04.56Bagginswwaccording to S$L
05:05.00Bagginswwshadows and light
05:05.05Bagginswwbut its gone now
05:05.12Bagginswwheh heh
05:05.16Bagginswwand he's living in black temple instead ;)
05:05.52Bagginswwin warcraft 2 map there was a mountain range just north of the dark portal
05:05.56Bagginswwthat cleary doesn't exist now
05:06.33LaraulLet me see... Apple introduced the first PC, the floppy drive, the first mouse driven ui... they also introduced the modern laptop design, the first standardized 3D api, etc etc
05:07.05Larauli really don't see much inovation from the PC side of the industry
05:07.06Kirkburn|afkI could spend a while disproving many of those, y'know
05:07.40Bagginswwuh zeal the southern dark portal you circled as red in the warcraft 3 map
05:07.52Bagginswwthat's the portal that blood elves open from center of
05:08.00Bagginswwwhen they escape
05:08.23Kirkburn|afkWhat was the first PC - :P
05:08.24BagginswwI mean the southern one you moved to the "east" :p
05:08.38Bagginswwit was a new portal :p
05:08.47*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
05:09.15LaraulThe apple II was a huge huge step forward
05:09.18Laraulas was the disk II
05:09.28Kirkburn|afkDoesn't make it the first PC though, does it?
05:09.56Laraulno not the first pc... the first pc that could be used in practicle applications
05:10.02Kirkburn|afkI'm not denying Apple has innovated, but so has Micrsoft and many others
05:10.19Laraulwhat has MS innovated?
05:10.27Zealsorry, lagging behind, sorting tooltip stuff out..
05:10.28Kirkburn|afkAre you really asking that question?
05:10.46LaraulYeah... i can think of some things... I just wanna know what you think they innovated
05:11.07Laraulthey're innovations really pale compared to apple
05:11.17BagginswwI meant dalaran not lordaeron city
05:11.51Bagginswwthe southern portal was the portal between outland and dalaran
05:12.11Bagginswwthat hte blood elves created to escape from the alliance
05:12.43Zealer.. ok catch up. Baggins no where is the BC east of the mountain range (Throne), not in any game, so no it hasn't fallen off Outland into the Twisting Nether. Where you're getting your idea for this, i don't know, but i know its where you wnat to place it.
05:13.20Bagginswwno its east of the "hillside" in WC3
05:13.32Zealthe map is flipped
05:13.37Bagginswwyou flipped it
05:13.39Bagginswwnot I
05:13.40Zealyou were talking about my method!
05:13.48Zealso yes, it's flipped
05:13.50BagginswwI'mg going by not touching the map
05:13.55Bagginswwyou can't claim its flipped
05:13.59Zealthne don't flip it
05:14.04BagginswwI didn't flip it
05:14.10Zealotherwise don't evne bother to analyze it.
05:14.15Kirkburn|afkLaraul, I'm researching
05:14.17BagginswwI left it as is as blizzard painted it
05:14.21Zeal*then dont, flip
05:14.26Bagginswwyou are the one trying to flip it
05:14.46Zealomg, Bagginsww, you were talking about "my way", so analyze it my way or not at all.
05:14.50Bagginswwif we go by the map as blizzard painted it, Black Citadel is to the "east" of the hillside
05:14.51Kirkburn|afkApple didn't make the first PC, they didn't introduce the floppy drive, they didn't make the first laptops, they didn't create the first mouse-driven UI
05:15.04Bagginswwzeal you are the one confusing yourself
05:15.13Zealno, i'm perfectly clear thanks.
05:15.23Bagginswwno you are confused on what I was discussing
05:15.38Bagginswwkirkburn noticed what we were discussing
05:15.42Zeal"Ok let's looka t your way let's say the hill is throne of kil'jaeen" <-- then do that, cos atm, you're not.
05:15.42Bagginswwhe caught it from the get go
05:15.43Kirkburn|afkThe iPod is not an innovation, the iPhone isn't either, many of  the 'innovations' in OSX were found elsewhere first
05:15.58BagginswwI was speaking of hill in an unflipped version of the map
05:16.06Zealwhich is not my way
05:16.12Zealit's not anyones way
05:16.13Bagginswwwell I don't have to agree with your way
05:16.21Zealno you don't
05:16.26Bagginswwthere is a hill in the unflipped version of the map
05:16.41Zealbut you can't start criticizing it when you're not even looking at it that way.
05:16.51Zealanyways.. moving on cos this is silly.
05:17.00Bagginswwfiguring out what that hill coresposnds too, the mountains around aggonar, or the throne that makes for two posisbilties
05:17.14Bagginswwnow if the hill is where aggonar is now
05:17.23Bagginswwthen hellfire citadel is south of aggonar
05:17.31ZealThe portal, yes it's the one they come through, so that is a flaw and i know it.
05:17.35Laraulthe iPod was innovative in it's design
05:17.49Kirkburn|afkWhat, that it used a touchpad?
05:17.55Bagginswwnow if that hill is say the "throne"
05:18.00Laraulit made actually navigating your library simple and painless
05:18.06Zealwhich we know doesn't match Bagginsww, so why are you saying "let's take this mount as fact" "but let's ignore this part because it fits my theory"
05:18.10Bagginswwthen that would make black citadel east of the mountain. an area that no longer exists
05:18.27Laraulthe original didn't have a touch pad... it had an actual wheel
05:18.28Bagginswwdude, I have never said anything as fact
05:18.38Bagginswwits always been "possibilties"
05:18.43Zeal*let's take this as a basis for my theory
05:18.47Bagginswwyour the only one getting defensive
05:18.57Zealnot defensive, offensive.
05:19.18Kirkburn|afkLaraul, so it did
05:19.29Laraulalso the way it was intorgrated into itunes was a major improvement over previous mp3 players
05:19.38Kirkburn|afkWe're talking about innovation, I thought
05:19.47Laraulthis is innovation
05:19.59Kirkburn|afkNo it isn't, Creative already did that stuff
05:20.15Kirkburn|afkI had an MP3 player before the iPod came out
05:21.05BagginswwFirst MP3 player was not by apple
05:21.12Bagginswwit was riva or something like that
05:21.20Kirkburn|afkThe Office 2007 UI is a good example of MS innovation
05:21.28Laraulhow did you put music on it?
05:21.42Kirkburn|afkUsing one of Creative's progs
05:22.10BagginswwI always thought the whole drag and drop through a USB cable was super easy
05:22.14Bagginswwcreate my own folders
05:22.23Bagginswwdrag all my music manually
05:22.31Bagginswwno need for software to do it for me :p
05:22.31Laraulbut it's not as convienient
05:22.38BagginswwI hate itunes
05:22.42Bagginswwit takes over my computer
05:22.45Kirkburn|afkCreative's prog acted like iTunes does
05:22.50Bagginswwwon't let me do what I want to do
05:22.57Laraulso does wmp
05:22.59Kirkburn|afkOrganised the music, naming, played it back
05:23.18BagginswwI do all my organization manually
05:23.25Kirkburn|afkWMP takes over your PC? Eh?
05:23.26BagginswwI don't let software do it for me
05:23.39Laraulwell that's your choice
05:23.45Larauli rather let the software do it
05:24.02Kirkburn|afkBack onto the topic of discussion
05:24.03BagginswwI'm still someone that uses dos commands, LOL
05:24.06Kirkburn|afkApple innovation
05:24.45Bagginswwwell that is I use them occasionally
05:25.11Kirkburn|afkThe only one I've let go so far is the standardized 3D API, and that's only because I don't know what it is/was
05:25.12Bagginswwsometimes some good ways of testing the system through dos.
05:25.26Laraultesting the system?
05:25.49Kirkburn|afkTesting IPs, etc, that kind of stuff?
05:26.09Bagginswwand WMP well I'd rather it take over the system as its tied into windows system a bit better. It also doesn't try to install google...
05:26.15Kirkburn|afkTracert ftw :P
05:26.24Kirkburn|afkAnd quicktime
05:26.29Laraulitunes tries to install google?
05:26.30BagginswwI hate google taskbar
05:26.35Bagginswwsome of the new versions ya
05:27.11Bagginswwand I found itunes ujnless you pay for it, has alot of pop up mail :p
05:27.23Laraulare these itunes installers from someone other than apple?
05:27.32BagginswwI only go to apple
05:27.40Laraulyou don't pay for itunes wtf
05:27.45Bagginswwthe few times I had to get it for something :p
05:27.50Laraulyou don't even use the program obviously
05:28.22Bagginswwactually my copy is through quicktime installation
05:28.25Kirkburn|afkAnyhoo, the fact that iTunes includes Quicktime essentially makes it a no-go zone for me
05:28.27Bagginswwwhich I do use
05:28.44Bagginswwits probably quicktime that's trying to add that other stuff :p
05:28.52Bagginswwwhich I don't want :p
05:29.04Laraulitunes is a mac port
05:29.27Kirkburn|afkRegarding QT - there is no way in hell I am paying money to be able to play my videos full screen, or in a badly ported player
05:29.56Laraulyeah paying for QT Pro is so lame... pisses me off
05:30.39LaraulWindows doesn't include an incoder like quicktime though
05:30.39isildorthe thing that gets me about itunes, is if all i want to do is copy my mp3s to the ipod
05:30.45isildorwhy do i have to install quicktime
05:31.00Kirkburn|afkLaraul, but you see my point. Apple is not some uber company that invented the world. It innovates as much as anyone else, no more.
05:31.12Bagginswwcause of video ipods?
05:31.18Bagginswwsee what you are going to copy before you do it :p
05:31.30Kirkburn|afkAnd MS is not some company that steals everyone else's ideas, whatever you'd like to believe
05:31.34isildormp3 <> video
05:31.46Larauleveryone takes ideas from others
05:31.55Bagginswwsure we know mp3 is not video
05:32.07LaraulMS just has the strange habbit of taking a good idea and turning it into a bad one
05:32.17Bagginswwjust some people do get their ipods to watch videos :p
05:32.46Kirkburn|afkI would love to see all these bad ideas MS had ...
05:33.05Kirkburn|afkIs backwards compatability one?
05:33.44Kirkburn|afk... uh, what?
05:34.00BagginswwIE has an exploit once, and its a bad product
05:34.01Laraulokay... you know in Windows XP.... there is an option in the search window to enable "indexing"?
05:34.23Kirkburn|afkYou know when XP came out?
05:34.38isildorim not talking about exploits im talking about confirming to rfc2616
05:34.52Laraulbut the windows xp search never really used the index
05:34.58Kirkburn|afkSo you're not going to tell me they stole indexing from OSX then?
05:35.22BagginswwI'd take PC over mac, simply for gaming... Sure the system has its flaws.
05:35.27Bagginswwbut it has more games
05:35.41LaraulConsole for games
05:35.42Bagginswwin a perfect world, I'd have enough money to own both :p
05:35.55BagginswwI'm a gamer, I get games on consoles, and pc
05:36.05Bagginswwthere are exclusives on each
05:36.14Larauldo you know how to search the index in windows xp?
05:36.16isildorso does blizzard oftenly delete topics?
05:36.26Kirkburn|afkisildor, yes, if they go against the guidelines
05:36.44isildorI was reading one of the druid qq posts, on like page 5, i try to goto 6 and it was deleted.
05:36.45Kirkburn|afkThe forums are in no way a democracy
05:37.18Laraulheh kirk you don't do you
05:37.19BagginswwJoined: 20 Aug 2004
05:37.19BagginswwPosts: 1626
05:37.21BagginswwThat was mostly directed at Zeal and Gandymede, who both mentioned severe dissappointment at the quality of our products, and Zeal went so far as to say that he's gonna steal our stuff, because they're not worth purchasing.
05:37.27Kirkburn|afkLaraul, what?
05:37.41Kirkburn|afkBagginsww, don't spam copied text please
05:37.42Laraulhow do you search the content index windows xp builds?
05:37.56Kirkburn|afkEr, I turn indexing on, then I ... search.
05:38.15Kirkburn|afkI have no idea what you're getting at
05:38.21Laraulit doesn't use the index from the windows explorer search
05:38.50Kirkburn|afkStill don't understand
05:39.04Laraulyou using xp?
05:39.50Kirkburn|afkI have absolutely no clue what you're telling me
05:39.54Laraulk go to computer management in administrative tools
05:42.28Laraulgo to services... then there should be something labeled like indexing or something below that
05:42.57Kirkburn|afkYou won't like me saying this, but I should mention Vista's search is better then OSX atm
05:43.05Kirkburn|afkAye, seen it
05:43.30Larauler vista's search doesn't scan the entire computer
05:44.10Laraulunder indexing you'll see "query catalog" pr something
05:45.39Laraulk you should see an input box
05:46.22Laraulwell anyhow that's how you search the content index in xp
05:46.31Kirkburn|afkBy default Vista doesn't search the entire PC, yes, because that's not what most people want. However, it's the work of one or two clicks to change that
05:47.44Laraulmore than one or two clicks
05:48.15Kirkburn|afkI'm talking about changing it to search the entire PC, not to add the entire PC to the index
05:48.33Laraulwell that's another thing
05:48.56Laraulwhen i want to search my computer... i want to search EVERYTHING. Not just what's in the index
05:49.03Kirkburn|afkYou aren't most people
05:49.34Kirkburn|afkIf you want to change to search the entire PC, by all means. But don't complain the MS caters for the majority
05:50.07LaraulUm... it's ALWAYS searched the entire PC in the past
05:50.12Kirkburn|afkPeople want stuff that's in their Documents, Music, etc ... not all the crap in Program Files
05:50.18Kirkburn|afkSo what?!
05:50.43Kirkburn|afkI don't care what the hell it did in the past
05:50.54Kirkburn|afkWhat it did in the past was stupid
05:51.18LaraulI agree... but when I bring up the explorer search dialog and tell it to search "Computer" I don't want it just to search thru the index by default
05:52.59Kirkburn|afkNote I am talking about Vista here, as that's the only fair comparison to OSX
05:54.49Kirkburn|afkWhen search for something, it takes two clicks to change it from searching Indexed Locations to ... "Everywhere" or "Computer" or "C:" or "D:", etc
05:54.49Laraulmicrosoft... of course... would like the user to never ever see the contents of there harddrive
05:54.49Kirkburn|afkLaraul, are you really this much of a fanboy?
05:54.49LaraulWhen you first open the Root directory what do you see?
05:54.49Kirkburn|afkThat was possibly the /stupidest/ comment I have ever seen on here
05:55.04LaraulOr the Programs Directory? Or the Windows?
05:55.18Kirkburn|afkYou tell me! YOU said it
05:55.40Kirkburn|afkWait, what
05:55.53Kirkburn|afk"When you first open the Root directory"
05:55.58LaraulTHe C drive
05:56.07Kirkburn|afkEr, I see ... the C:
05:56.31Kirkburn|afkVista does not hide anything
05:57.08Kirkburn|afkIt sounding like you don't know how a Windows PC works :/
05:57.32LaraulNo it discourages though. Instead of seeing the files and such you see a big message saying browsing these directorys is not a good idea
05:57.37Laraulor something like that
05:57.45Kirkburn|afkBtw, I'm going to get into the habit of calling them a Windows PC and an Apple PC. Just so you know.
05:57.53Kirkburn|afkNo, you don't
05:58.05Kirkburn|afkYou might have in XP, but I don't get that in Vista
05:58.18Kirkburn|afkProbably if you were on a guest account it might say something, exactly as it should
05:59.26Kirkburn|afkI should also mention that on XP it only ever says that once, and once you say "Show me the files", it doesn't show again
05:59.56Laraulyeah only once
06:00.00Laraulbut once is too many
06:00.15Laraulwhy don't they want you knowing what is installed on your computer?
06:00.39Kirkburn|afkSeriously, listen to yourself
06:00.46Laraulwhat is the PURPOSE of such a message?
06:01.03Kirkburn|afkTo tell people that editing those files is a BAAAD idea if you don't know what you're doing
06:01.20Kirkburn|afkIt's a warning!
06:01.51Kirkburn|afkIt's more sensible than a popup box, and is uninstrusive
06:02.01Laraulwhy is modifying those files a bad idea?
06:02.09Laraulcuz they'll break the os
06:02.17Kirkburn|afker, yes
06:02.35LaraulBut why would an os make it so easy to break?
06:02.38Kirkburn|afkOh, can you not do that on an Apple PC ...
06:02.47Kirkburn|afkI'm sorry, I forgot an Apple PC is God.
06:02.55Kirkburn|afkPlease forgive me.
06:03.34LaraulIf Apple can do it, why not Microsoft?
06:03.41Kirkburn|afkCan do WHAT?
06:04.37Kirkburn|afkIf you remove important OSX files IT WILL BREAK. Shockingly.
06:04.58Laraulit makes it rather difficult to remove them
06:05.17LaraulEven if they are removed the computer still will probably boot
06:05.29Kirkburn|afkOh, does Apple not want you editing system files?
06:05.33Kirkburn|afkOdd, that.
06:05.59Laraulno they make editing system files rather easy
06:06.06Kirkburn|afkyeah, sure, the PC will boot just fine without important system files. Just like a man can walk when he has no legs.
06:06.10Laraulit's just they make breaking them difficult
06:06.17LaraulThey is reduncy
06:06.25Larauler there is
06:06.56*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub)
06:06.56*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ
06:07.38Kirkburn|afkSorry, but OSX is not that different to Vista
06:08.04Kirkburn|afkOne does not magically work in an entirely different way to the other
06:08.11Kirkburn|afkHeya Tek
06:08.27Laraulyou better cite specifics if your gonna say that
06:08.36Kirkburn|afkNo, you had.
06:08.41Laraulotherwise it's just hogwash
06:08.42Kirkburn|afkI'm not the one talking crap about Windows
06:08.51Tekkuboh oh oh lets take our file, rar it into 40 lieces, then rar those together into one rar, and then put that in the fucking torrent
06:08.59Kirkburn|afkTekkub, I hate that :P
06:09.13Tekkubinstead of spending that processing time UNRaRing the file
06:09.30TekkubI mean, it's a DivX, I'm sure we can squeeze more compression out of it
06:09.48Kirkburn|afkLaraul, you're the one telling me OSX will boot without important system files, and I want you to prove that to me.
06:09.48Tekkubinbreeding FTL
06:10.08Kirkburn|afkJust like you proved that Apple is an innovator.
06:10.19Tekkubisn't the definition of "system file" something the system needs to, like, boot
06:10.50Laraulyou want me to move the "CoreServices" folder to the trash and reboot?
06:11.09Kirkburn|afkNo. Surely there's documentation of this somewhere?
06:11.36Tekkubtrash?  be brave, permadelete
06:11.55Tekkubwe don't need no stinking "second chance" delete folder
06:12.08Kirkburn|afkIt's not a second chance if it doesn't boot.
06:12.15Tekkubfirst thing to go on any computer I use, the recycle bin
06:12.28Tekkubthankfully I don't need TweakUI in Wista
06:12.29Kirkburn|afkTekkub, you're just weird :P
06:12.44isildortell that to your mom, who always says, I didn't know if I deleted something, I could not get it back.
06:12.46Tekkubno, I just want things to do what I tell them
06:12.58TekkubI say delete, they better fucking dissappear for good
06:13.19TekkubI don't tell my mom computer things
06:13.27TekkubI learned to avoid that mess years ago
06:13.33isildori try not to
06:13.36TekkubI just tell her I don't use that program
06:13.42Laraulyou do know holding the shift key while pressing delete does delete the file
06:14.06Tekkubyou do know that removing the recycle bin make shift-delete the default action?
06:14.37Laraulactually the files are still there... just marked as deleted
06:14.47Tekkubthere's RaR in the Multipart RaR!
06:15.32Tekkubif I wasn't getting free stuff from these people they'd be getting a strongly worded email
06:17.13Laraulthe point in breaking a torrent into lots and lots of files if for some reason there is a problem while downloading... the torrent info is lost and...
06:17.21TekkubI will, however, get another glass of wine and some homemade cheesecake
06:17.38Tekkubjust stop
06:17.48Kirkburn|afkModern BT programs don't need it
06:17.48Laraulwell when you download again you don't have to download the entire thing but rather the peices you don't have
06:18.02LaraulWELL THAT'S THE REASON! I agree it's annoying
06:18.08Tekkubit's lazy people that download off a newsgroup and make a torrent without processing the files they got
06:18.39Kirkburn|afkBT programs do not need the files to be split up for it to be 'safe'
06:18.41Tekkubany good bittorrent program can resume bad pieces, and does quite frequently
06:18.50Laraulof course not
06:19.12Tekkubthe *other* effect is people that think compressing many time gains extra space savings
06:19.47Tekkubwhich is not the case, simply using a higher compression scheme with a 1-time compress will work much better
06:19.57Tekkuband not was compressing/decompressing time
06:20.14Kirkburn|afkTo summarize, Laraul, you have so far listed no innovations of Apple's, and a complete misunderstanding of Windows. Oh, and a blatant bias towards OSX.
06:20.31TekkubI've been decompressing this thing for 13min now
06:20.31Laraulkirk just shut up
06:20.51Kirkburn|afkYou come in here and talk shit about stuff, you get what's coming.
06:20.56Tekkubbut OSX is purdy
06:21.04Laraulhell how is it i knew how to search the xp index and you didn't?
06:21.13Tekkublook at Vista, it took MS how many years to master "purdy"?
06:21.13Laraulyou don't know anything
06:21.17Kirkburn|afkAnd yeah, OSX is nice :)
06:21.18Larauljust shutup
06:21.33Kirkburn|afkWow, you sure showed me.
06:21.44Tekkubdamn hippies
06:21.57Tekkubgo smoke an iPod!
06:22.41Tekkubnow, as I was saying... wine and cheesecake
06:30.38Kirkburn|afkChocolate cake is better, but I can do cheesecake if I must
06:31.03TekkubI hate cack
06:32.22Kirkburn|afkI am not anti-Apple, but I am anti-Apple fanboy :) Well and slightly anti-Apple when certain famous employees pretend like it created the Heaven and Earth. ^^
06:32.37Tekkubfappl anboy?
06:32.47Kirkburn|afkTekkub, I hate cack too! Wow!
06:33.06isildorbesides we all know the amiga was better ;)
06:33.14TekkubAplle is all about facades
06:33.24Tekkubgod I can't type... MORE WINE!
06:33.29TekkubI'll correct this!
06:34.24Tekkubanyone that says apple's software is stable, I have many a frowney-face mac to show you
06:34.33Kirkburn|afkWell I'm getting the feeling people are getting increasingly pissed off at Apple, kinda like Sony's PS3 effect
06:34.50Tekkubthere were some damn creative apple fixes back in the day
06:35.12Kirkburn|afkWhatcha mean?
06:35.13TekkubI can fix damn near any Mac Classic issue, except bursting into flames
06:35.21Tekkubwhich I have seen happen, *twice*
06:35.40Tekkubwell there was one where the HDD would "stick" in a classic
06:35.45Tekkubthe solution...
06:35.51Tekkubpick up by handle
06:36.12Tekkubfind "sweet spot" on back about 1/3 of the way up (where the HDD is at)
06:36.26Tekkubsmake hard, let chasis twist in your hand
06:36.39Tekkubworked too
06:37.03Tekkubtho often took a few smacks
06:37.52Tekkubthe librarian thought I was breaking shit, till the typing teacher, who had a lab full of classics, told her it worked
06:43.06Bagginswwfelboar and helboar are different, I've split the pages
06:48.21Kirkburn|afkhfelboar ... the welsh version :P
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07:03.09ZealBagginsww, replied
07:03.17Zeal@ WW
07:03.46ZealKirkburn|afk, i rarely have to use it, but Laraul as been on my ignore list now :p
07:04.09Zealer.. *twice now
07:04.24Kirkburn|afkI have no plans to start using one, but each to their own :)
07:04.47Zeali onyl have two people across 3 networks and 5 chans, heh.
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07:05.37Zeali need to make food..
07:05.43Zealand turn off sky travel >_<
07:05.46Kirkburn|afkOff to watch Family Guy
07:05.49Zealbtw Kirkburn|afk, you use sky?
07:06.01Kirkburn|afkAs in TV?
07:06.01Zealfor tv
07:06.15Zealfreeview? ntl? telewest?
07:06.17Tekkubbetter'n the lib
07:06.26Kirkburn|afkVirgin Media, I guess
07:06.33Zealwell yeah.
07:06.47Zealsaddend by the loss of sky channels?
07:06.55Kirkburn|afkDon't watch it anyway ^^
07:07.27Kirkburn|afkOne of my housemates watches Sky Sports, so he's probably annoyed :P
07:08.06Kirkburn|afkAnyway, toodles
07:08.40Zealkk, ttyl :p
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07:27.33Zeali'm, gunna go sort food out then.
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10:24.29pakozyo any chanters on?
10:39.54zealthat'd be a no :P
10:39.59zealanyways, i'm all. nn all
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16:22.26AdysSorry for the inactivity recently, Im in greece until the 11th
16:22.34Adysinfobot, beer
16:22.35infobotACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
16:24.02AdysSo no one finished up the vote? Bah
16:24.42equiraptorA friend of mine wrote a beerbot.
16:24.49equiraptorSay you need a beer, it gives you one.
16:24.56equiraptorUnless you're me. It only gives me Dr Peep.
16:25.00equiraptorEr, dr pepper.
16:25.03equiraptorTyping issues today.
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17:24.16Kirkburn|afkRemind me not to go in 4 1/2 hours late to a two day project session at Uni. Especially on hand-in day. :P
17:24.35Kirkburn|afkI'm so lazy!
17:24.44Kirkburn|afkBut then again, I managed to finish it :)
17:25.00AdysEllo kirk
17:25.31Kirkburn|afkAny Autrailian Uni students around - AWESOME truly INCREDIBLE offer for you. Office Ultimate for AU$75 -
17:25.33Kirkburn|afkHey Adys
17:25.36Kirkburn|afkHow's the weather?
17:25.45Kirkburn|afk*Australian, sorry
17:25.53AdysIm in greece :P
17:26.04AdysOh doh
17:26.25Adysand cant wait to come back home :/
17:27.08Adysany news about server upgrade?
17:29.05Kirkburn|afkNot liking Greece?!
17:29.10Kirkburn|afkComing, it's coming
17:29.16AdysBoring :P
17:29.20Adyswant my place? hehe
17:29.23Kirkburn|afkLikely this weekend. vlad says he's tested it
17:29.37Kirkburn|afkNot likely, I had enough for being abroad in Italy last year =)
17:29.55amroAdys: touring or work?
17:30.10TepetkhetDo any of you guys know anything about itemstats tooltip thingies for websites?
17:30.39amroTepetkhet: be more specific
17:31.10Kirkburn|afkThe rollover stuff Tep?
17:31.26Kirkburn|afkNo idea where to get them, unfortunately
17:31.35TepetkhetWell, I was trying to get a thing for my website so you could do [item]Dagger of Stabbing[/item] and it would pop up with the stats from Allakhazam or whatever.
17:31.45TepetkhetI found an addon that's supposed to do that.
17:31.54amrodoesn't allakhazam have some sort of API?
17:32.10TepetkhetBut all it seems to do is convert my thing into a link to the item and not pop up.
17:32.34amrowell not exactly an API but a way to get data from allakhazam in your site
17:32.38AdysKirkburn btw
17:32.50TepetkhetI guess so.  The addon's supposed to do that.
17:32.51AdysCheck that out
17:32.59TepetkhetBut it doesn't pop up.
17:33.09TepetkhetIt just converts it to a link.
17:33.13AdysI thought there would be a possibility with URLEncode maybe but dunno
17:36.01Kirkburn|afkAdys, what about it?
17:36.09Adyscheck the changes i made
17:36.19Kirkburn|afkPreventing the redirect?
17:36.19Adysthey dont work
17:36.30Adysbecause there are still spaces in the url
17:36.33Adysso it fucks up the link
17:36.47Adysbut urlencode transforms it into %20 and not _ iirc
17:36.51Kirkburn|afkMaybe with 1.9.2 it might act more sensibly
17:39.06Adysirc + msn + wow on a comp that I almost never touched before as healing class i never play with a qwerty keyboard and different keybinds and without addons FTW
17:42.39amroqwerty > azerty
17:42.59AdysDepends if you worked four years with an azerty :P
17:43.19amroi have
17:43.38amrobut i was like 5-10 at the time
17:43.51Kirkburn|afkQwerty ftw :)
17:44.03Adysmeh :p
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17:44.24amroI mean, what common use could I possibly have for micro (u)?
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17:44.59amroby u I mean µ
17:45.15Adyshehe well Im on a greek setup atm
17:45.40Adys ; ; ;
17:45.48AdysI mean..
17:45.58AdysI gotta admit that its not possibly the best setup to use here
17:46.25Kirkburn|afkYay for english's lack of any remotely interesting letters!
17:48.15amrothat's a good thing, I hate accents in french
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17:53.33AdysWell Im off, have fun guys, Ill try and reconnect at some point before the 11th but not sure
18:02.26Kirkburn|afkMy sister's cat got run over last night :(
18:02.55Kirkburn|afkNo fair :/
18:10.22TepetkhetPoor kitty!
18:11.42Kirkburn|afkI have lots of piccies to remember him by at least :)
18:11.57GankutsuouAnyone from the template crew around
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18:12.22Kirkburn|afkI'll volunteer :P Gankutsuou how can I help?
18:13.58GankutsuouI just wanted some feedback on a new talent table I'm working on for the class pages
18:14.06GankutsuouCause the current ones are butt ugly
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18:15.21winkillershow em, although I'm not from the template crew
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18:15.55Kirkburn|afk(wow, I didn't know this had actually continued - ... NSFW obviously)
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18:20.08GankutsuouI was updating all the Rogue abilities/talents with their BC changes and missing icons and had to update the talent table as well, so I thought I might redesign it in the process.
18:21.50Kirkburn|afkMuch better, yeah
18:22.26Kirkburn|afkThere's too much contrast on the current tables
18:23.05Gankutsuouand you don't have to scroll your wheel twice to view one table
18:23.36Kirkburn|afkAye, good change
18:23.42GankutsuouRemoved the rank column because it's irrelevant when you add 1/2/3/4/5% in the description
18:25.00Gankutsuouand then I removed prerequirements, which should be prerequisites, and seperated each talent tier with horizontal borders
18:26.05Kirkburn|afkLol, it said prerequirements?
18:26.53GankutsuouI think the original creator was CrazyJack, I asked for feedback on his talk page but haven't recieved a response yet
18:27.18Kirkburn|afkAye, some people aren't around that often. CJ visits occasionally
18:27.46Kirkburn|afkI'm not seeing the horizontal borders
18:28.12GankutsuouThey're dotted styles
18:28.30Kirkburn|afkI see it in FF
18:28.53GankutsuouThe left border works
18:28.56GankutsuouBut not the bottom one
18:29.27GankutsuouIt's because it's an empty cell
18:29.33GankutsuouIt won't display in IE
18:30.13Kirkburn|afkOh I see your method
18:30.16GankutsuouI'll just have to apply the style to the bottom talent (or top) in each tier
18:30.17Kirkburn|afkIt's an extra line
18:32.28Kirkburn|afk(Btw, STALKER has gone gold)
18:34.37GankutsuouNever heard of it
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18:53.23winkillerGankutsuou: looks nice
18:54.30Kirkburn|afkAn interesting little snippet:
18:54.32Kirkburn|afkAfter the first Warcraft and when we were talking about Warcraft II, there was an idea for about a week where we'd open another portal open and have the Orcs invade the modern-day world. We had this whole cut-scene we were talking about where it was going to be dragons and F-16s and firefights and stuff. And we were like, "Man,  that's going to be weird. That's going to suck. That's not going to be Warcraft."
18:54.50Kirkburn|afk(from an interview regarding Hellgate: London)
18:57.19GankutsuouThanks, winkiller
18:57.53winkilleroh btw, is there an "automatically watch pages I edited for edits afterwards"? instead of manually watching..
18:58.27GankutsuouNot that I know of
18:59.45Kirkburn|afkIn preferences
18:59.53Kirkburn|afkProbably hidden by the whiteness
19:00.13Kirkburn|afkShall look for it
19:00.51Kirkburn|afkUnder EDITING about halfway down there are two options to tick -
19:00.53Kirkburn|afkAdd pages I create to my watchlist
19:01.56winkillerah thanks
19:03.01winkillerit is hidden by the whiteness, btw
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20:13.40TepetkhetIt's working!
20:13.43TepetkhetItemstats is working!
20:13.47TepetkhetI hacked it.
20:14.16equiraptorGlad you got it working. :)
20:14.44Tepetkhetequiraptor: You should check it out on the forums.
20:16.37amrogot a link? could be useful for my guild website
20:17.26Tepetkhetamro: I used files from
20:18.04TepetkhetThe problem with using it with the CMS software I'm using is that he modified core files.
20:18.35TepetkhetSo every time there's an upgrade, you have to put his changes into the new versions of the core files.
20:18.45TepetkhetBut he clearly commented all of his changes.
20:18.55TepetkhetSo I just copied and pasted them into the new versions of the files.
20:18.56amropage is taking forever to load. is it dependant on that CMS?
20:19.05equiraptorHave I registered on that site yet, tep?
20:19.11Tepetkhetequiraptor: Let me check.
20:19.33Tepetkhetequiraptor: No.
20:19.50amroim there
20:20.10amrothe french is giving me a headache
20:20.14TepetkhetIt looks like there used to be itemstats bbcode in the beginning.
20:20.19TepetkhetOh, you can change to Engrish on the right.
20:20.21amroand high blood pressure too
20:20.46amroah much better
20:20.46TepetkhetSo people started porting itemstats to various other forum and CMS software.
20:21.12TepetkhetThis guy did the hard work of converting it to work with many different kinds of sites.
20:21.16equiraptordone. :)
20:21.17TepetkhetBut he's stopped maintaining it.
20:21.57Tepetkhetequiraptor: You have guildie access now.
20:22.15TepetkhetI'm not really very good at programming.
20:22.17Kirkburn|afkMaybe, given the Armory, we'll one day have the opportunity of getting the info from Blizz themselves
20:22.27amroerm is there a generic version? I use a custom system on my site
20:22.40equiraptorWoot. :)
20:22.51Tepetkhetamro: yeah, I think there is.  It says it works with html/php sites, too.
20:22.58TepetkhetSo sorta generic.
20:23.33Tepetkhetamro: It looks like what you do is get the Core files and then...
20:24.10amrooh i see, thanks
20:24.29TepetkhetA lot of this doesn't make sense to me.
20:25.02TepetkhetBut I can kind of look at the files and look at the way it's implemented on different systems and do a diff between his version of the files and my version.
20:25.04amrophp inside html is ugly
20:25.11amrowhy people wont just use print statements is beyond me
20:25.44TepetkhetCompare and make fit.
20:26.33amroimprovising - the most important skill
20:27.03amrogoing to reboot into linux to work on the site again
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21:17.50TekkubA thought on the Elinks template....
21:18.21Tekkubif the thott variable hasn't been defined, why not show a "search on thott" link that uses {{PAGENAME}} as the search arg
21:18.39Tekkubit'll help people find the thott ID to put in even :)
21:33.51Tekkubalright, all coded let me know
21:39.15amrolooks good to me
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23:13.02bleetahwoot, bbc and youtube have reached an agreement
23:22.23nemppuwhat sort?
23:24.45bleetahIIRC, they're also sponsoring Azureus to get it to a stage where they can release backcatalog stuff, too
23:24.57bleetahI guess they didn't sell as many Dr Who DVDs as they thought they would ;)
23:25.45bleetahhere's the bbc news story about the youtube deal, tho
23:26.51bleetah and
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