| 00:00.44 | Zeal | MMOSG goes into explaining the blurring of the genre |
| 00:01.47 | Zeal | Basically, the battlenet portion of WC3 would fall under MMOSG |
| 00:02.04 | Zeal | so would most things in MP games |
| 00:02.51 | Zeal | but would you call in an MMORPRTSSG? i doubt it. |
| 00:03.29 | Zeal | MMO really is a silly genre anyways. |
| 00:03.39 | Zeal | as it can be only one element of the game |
| 00:03.47 | Zeal | like saying MP is a genre.. |
| 00:03.57 | Zeal | doesn't mean it doesn't have SP too. |
| 00:06.16 | Zeal | LotRO = RPG w/Online SP, Online Co-Op, Online MP, MMOSG. That's what i'm seeing. |
| 00:07.40 | Zeal | it's more that there should be a clearer definition of playing and social interaction. MMOSG isn't realistically possible. I don't play IRC.. >_> |
| 00:10.31 | Zeal | if everything in WoW was instanced, except for capital cities, you'd have RPG w/Online SP, Online Co-Op, Online MP, and massively online social interaction and economy gameplay elements. |
| 00:11.31 | Zeal | too many genre crossovers, lol. |
| 00:11.45 | Zeal | anyways.. bored now >_>; |
| 00:11.53 | Teomyr | oO |
| 00:12.11 | Teomyr | did you realize that you've been talking about MMORPGs for two hours now? |
| 00:12.58 | Zeal | fun :p |
| 00:13.17 | Zeal | lol, MMOTycoon Game :p |
| 00:13.36 | Zeal | guess that's what the economy gameplay elements would fall under |
| 00:14.11 | Teomyr | like many browsergames |
| 00:14.50 | Zeal | apparently they get their own genre >_> |
| 00:14.55 | Zeal | MMOBG.. |
| 00:14.57 | Zeal | rofl |
| 00:14.59 | Teomyr | lol |
| 00:15.35 | Zeal | really, genres make little sense when they're so convoluted. same with music and probably anything else. |
| 00:16.44 | Zeal | Nilhilum have downed mag |
| 00:16.45 | Zeal | heh |
| 00:16.45 | Teomyr | i'm not a big fan of putting things into strict categories either |
| 00:17.54 | Zeal | well, the key thing with categories, is to remember what you're categorizing by, and never forgetting it. |
| 00:18.22 | Teomyr | makes sense |
| 00:19.52 | Zeal | otherwise you end up blurring the lines and overlapping. otherwise you end up with stupid things like MMO, RTS, RPG, Puzzle, Action, FPS, Driving, Tycoon, Simulation, Space, Flight, Fishing, Shooting, Platform.. and so on.. |
| 00:20.09 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 00:21.40 | Zeal | it doesn't require a fairly rigid concept of what is possible though. |
| 00:21.55 | Zeal | which is possibly where game genres could be forgiven.. |
| 00:22.01 | Zeal | *does require |
| 00:22.50 | Zeal | but i find it unlikely people couldn't forsee Sims or MMO's for example.. |
| 00:29.12 | Zeal | "*old women holds up large bladed knife* When you get than under your ribs *taps point* it doesn't feel good.." ... wtf? O_o |
| 00:29.48 | Zeal | *that |
| 00:35.26 | winkiller | Zeal: there were times were people didn't even foresee broadband or flatrates |
| 00:35.49 | winkiller | or even volume-based online charges |
| 00:36.10 | Zeal | lol, i know that, but that implementation and technology. game genres are only really limited by the imagination. |
| 00:36.23 | winkiller | depends |
| 00:36.38 | winkiller | if it _solely_ depends on not-avalibale technology.. |
| 00:36.45 | Zeal | not really |
| 00:36.59 | winkiller | MUDs were mmos, partly |
| 00:37.04 | winkiller | and those are old |
| 00:37.06 | Zeal | even if the net didn;t exist, you could still fore see an MMO, just not how it could work. |
| 00:37.18 | winkiller | point taken |
| 00:37.28 | Zeal | :p |
| 00:37.36 | winkiller | but what exactly did you mean by "but i find it unlikely people couldn't forsee Sims" |
| 00:37.45 | winkiller | from what time do you speak? |
| 00:38.03 | *** part/#wowwiki tanuki (n=nnnbgeig@cleverdomain.org) |
| 00:38.08 | Kirkburn|afk | If anyone was wondering where 2.0.9 went ... "2.0.9 is a Taiwan-only release." |
| 00:40.31 | Zeal | from the time the idea of a game was every concieved :p |
| 00:40.48 | Zeal | ah, any details as to what it did Kirkburn|afk? |
| 00:40.59 | Kirkburn|afk | Nope |
| 00:43.13 | Zeal | "Fixed eye textures" ;p |
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| 00:43.51 | winkiller | I am so bored, I am doing the coin of ancestry quests atm |
| 00:43.59 | Zeal | lol |
| 00:44.05 | Zeal | i got 6 atm |
| 00:44.10 | winkiller | 75 horde rep each :P |
| 00:44.17 | Zeal | does the quest reset each year? |
| 00:44.23 | winkiller | no idea |
| 00:44.27 | Zeal | i hope so.. |
| 00:44.49 | Zeal | cos theres no way a low level player can do it |
| 00:45.25 | Zeal | when it was first implemented, the invation didn't have a duration, so that was fair enough. |
| 00:45.45 | Zeal | but then they added it, so doing it at a levle before 60 meant you were penalized |
| 00:45.52 | Zeal | also noticed they stack in 100's, lol |
| 00:46.03 | Zeal | so suggests repeatable. |
| 00:46.18 | winkiller | nah, it were ~60 last year |
| 00:46.24 | winkiller | guess they added some |
| 00:46.41 | Zeal | doubt it |
| 00:46.46 | winkiller | I got 5 on my 1x warrior o/ |
| 00:46.56 | winkiller | and making the 10 full on my 64 druid now |
| 00:47.13 | winkiller | while waiting for my girlfriend to make the last 10% to 70, so I can go to sleep :P |
| 00:48.48 | Zeal | lol |
| 01:01.33 | winkiller | gnight |
| 01:02.04 | Kirkburn|afk | G'night |
| 01:02.14 | Kirkburn|afk | 1am ... I'd better do some work! |
| 01:09.54 | *** topic/#wowwiki by Kirkburn|afk -> Discuss all wiki issues here! Channel info: www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:IRC | RC list: [[ WoWWiki:RC ]] | UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge | 2.0.10 now in testing! |
| 01:11.14 | bleetah | be aware that the first release of the 2.0.10 build has broken OpenGL, and may not work on Macs without setting UIFaster to 0 |
| 01:11.33 | bleetah | or on Wine.. or on Windows if you're using OpenGL. Blizz have said it'll be fixed in the next PTR build. |
| 01:13.34 | Zeal | lol |
| 01:13.42 | Zeal | gg @ fail |
| 01:13.54 | Zeal | well i'm gunna go watch tv, bbl |
| 01:16.36 | bleetah | I wasted about 12 hours chasing it down with Wine devs, only to have the issue confirmed by a Blue in the Mac forums. |
| 01:17.09 | zeal | rofl |
| 01:17.24 | bleetah | who then followed up my 'well it'd be nice if someone had followed up the original report in the test forum' with a 'we knew about it before release, but figured we wanted the testing this weekend instead of a delay'.. I refrained from 'then wtf wasn't it mentioned in the patch notes' |
| 01:17.52 | zeal | haha |
| 01:18.17 | zeal | and even if they knew, why didn't the main support forum reply first? |
| 01:18.48 | bleetah | left hand/right hand once again showing a distinct lack of communication, methinks ;) |
| 01:25.05 | bleetah | needless to say, my head still hurts from the crashcourse in OpenGL ;) |
| 01:36.32 | Kirkburn|afk | heh |
| 01:36.41 | Kirkburn|afk | It's all learning bleetah :) |
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| 01:53.06 | bleetah | Kirkburn|afk: the only thing I learned was that it didn't seem to be a Wine problem, and that people staring blankly at source code is amusing :) |
| 02:18.08 | Kirkburn|afk | bleetah, lol |
| 02:19.21 | Kirkburn|afk | I heard that Wine causes many problems, including instability, slowdown and loss of bladder control |
| 02:20.10 | bleetah | as well as many shags and boobies |
| 02:20.24 | Kirkburn|afk | Aye, those too |
| 02:20.42 | bleetah | on, or away from, the rock |
| 02:20.53 | bleetah | although the rock's handy for the aforementioned bladder problems |
| 02:21.20 | Kirkburn|afk | Indeed, very handy for the aforementioned bladder problems |
| 02:21.35 | bleetah | not so hot for spotted dick, tho |
| 02:22.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Tis a pity, though I heard Fanny Craddock was a fan of it |
| 02:22.33 | Kirkburn|afk | s/dd/d/ |
| 02:22.54 | bleetah | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2249273.stm |
| 02:24.20 | bleetah | was fanny cradock a gypsy tart? |
| 02:24.41 | bleetah | or a bedforshire clanger? |
| 02:24.51 | Kirkburn|afk | Btw, check the second floated quote in this story - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6176209.stm |
| 02:24.53 | Kirkburn|afk | Note the name |
| 02:25.27 | bleetah | or did she have a sticky date? |
| 02:26.01 | bleetah | lol Kirkburn|afk |
| 02:26.42 | Kirkburn|afk | I must say, I do wonder if this was Fanny's - http://www.weirdspot.com/images/uploads/wetpussy.jpg |
| 02:27.16 | Kirkburn|afk | Yay that Google gave me two pages of porn before I found that :P |
| 02:29.02 | bleetah | hmm, I didn't realise it was only Aussies who have sticky dates on their supermarket shelves |
| 02:29.50 | bleetah | mind you, there's a subrub in Sydney -> Rooty Hill.. so I shouldn't be suprised |
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| 02:33.18 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.04 | Kirkburn|afk | bleetah, it wouldn't surprise me if there were places there called Buggerme Creek or Wehadeileen Hill |
| 02:35.45 | Kirkburn|afk | I love what happens when people run out of names for places :) |
| 02:37.14 | bleetah | I know there's a town in the Austrian Alps called Wank |
| 02:38.06 | bleetah | and I've got a photo of myself at the sign indicating I'm entring Chaos in Portugal.. I was too afraid to venture further into the town |
| 02:42.55 | Kirkburn|afk | hehe |
| 02:45.42 | Kirkburn|afk | I remember finding a cafe in Italy called Spleen Cafe |
| 02:45.50 | Kirkburn|afk | In fact, I'm looking at the picture now |
| 02:46.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Safe to say, we didn't eat there :P |
| 02:53.40 | *** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter) |
| 03:00.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Assuming this can be tested, we should probably link to this on the wiki - http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=6922 |
| 03:01.01 | Kirkburn|afk | It's an AH gem finder :D |
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| 03:10.36 | Kirkburn|afk | Okay, off now |
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| 03:19.12 | zeal | that addon seems rather pointless to me |
| 03:19.17 | zeal | but meh |
| 03:19.32 | zeal | wait until 2.1 to fix it |
| 03:19.48 | zeal | they've said new AH cats are coming |
| 03:19.52 | zeal | including gems |
| 03:20.12 | zeal | think that's supposed to be before 2.1 |
| 03:21.10 | zeal | don't forget the town of myanus from jackass ;) |
| 03:21.29 | zeal | "x is pumping in myanus" .. :p |
| 03:21.53 | zeal | anyways, i'm off to bed now |
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| 03:22.45 | zeal | nn all |
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| 05:33.18 | Bagginsww | why does teron gorefiend have an orc body? |
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| 05:53.45 | Montag_ | Teron Gorefiend was a dead orc raised during the First War. |
| 05:53.54 | Montag_ | He's one of the Old Horde Death Knights. |
| 05:54.42 | Montag_ | Lemme reconnect. |
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| 05:55.58 | bleetah | would it be unreasonable to add 'morlock' to the Pop Culture references, and state that it's a plausible origin of the 'mulock' name? |
| 05:56.14 | bleetah | *murlock |
| 05:56.38 | bleetah | I'm trying to think of an possible Eloi connection |
| 06:12.05 | Montagg | bleetah: That's a good question. I think if I knew more about morlocks/elois I might be able to answer it. =c) |
| 06:12.07 | Montagg | Good thought, though. |
| 06:12.18 | Bagginsww | Teron Gorefiend was human skeleton with a orc spirit in the second game |
| 06:12.48 | Bagginsww | the story is in the warcraft II Manual :) |
| 06:12.49 | Montagg | Bagginsww: Interesting. Thought he was just your average pre-Scourge Death Knight. |
| 06:13.19 | Bagginsww | ya like all the pre-scourge death knights they were risen bones of knights of Azeroth |
| 06:13.27 | Bagginsww | infused with the spirits of the warlocks |
| 06:13.41 | Bagginsww | their truncheons were infused with the spirits of the necrolytes |
| 06:14.05 | Bagginsww | by Azeroth I mean the kingdom, not the world |
| 06:14.36 | Bagginsww | I suppose Teron could have gotten his old body back |
| 06:14.50 | Bagginsww | and certainly his spirit should look orcish |
| 06:15.50 | Montagg | Hmm.. Maybe they decided to make pre-Scourge Death Knights orcish in order to differentiate them from Scourge Death Knights. |
| 06:16.04 | Montagg | And there's nothing to stop them from rearranging the bones, per say/ |
| 06:16.05 | bleetah | Montagg: Morlocks and Eloi are the two species of humans that we have evolved into that were encountered in the future by the lead character in HG Wells' time machine. The morlocks being the ones hidden underground, uncultured etc. etc. whilst the Eloi were the toga wearing upperclass aboveground |
| 06:16.12 | Bagginsww | I don't know pre-scourge were different looke dmore like Ring Wraiths |
| 06:16.19 | bleetah | *HG Well's novel 'Time Machine' |
| 06:16.45 | Montagg | bleetah: The only knowledge I have of them comes from "In the Beginning there was the Command Line." |
| 06:17.01 | Bagginsww | I don't really like the scourge death knights, they look too human :p |
| 06:17.08 | Montagg | They were, though. |
| 06:17.23 | Bagginsww | I just mean artistically they aren't as creative |
| 06:17.52 | Bagginsww | look like over the top villainous dark knights from other fantasies LOL |
| 06:18.23 | bleetah | Montagg: stephenson directly took that from Wells |
| 06:18.39 | Montagg | bleetah: I know. But I'm indicating the limited nature of my understanding. =c) |
| 06:18.46 | bleetah | heh, k |
| 06:19.13 | bleetah | just I was watching Wor Of The Worlds last night, and it occurred to me there weren't any Wells references.. then it hit me ;) |
| 06:20.53 | bleetah | put it this way, I'd almost lay money on there being a direct connection in the game designer's mind insofar as the nomenclature goes. more so than many of the other alleged references on the wowwiki page ;) |
| 06:21.11 | bleetah | but I'm still stuck thinking if there's an Eloi reference somewhere |
| 06:21.21 | bleetah | might just have to read the book again |
| 06:21.44 | Bagginsww | eloi and morlocks are in WoW? or you mean connection between morlocks and murlocks? |
| 06:22.28 | bleetah | yeah, I just added Morlocks to the pop culture reference page on wowwiki, I'm now trying to think if the Eloi are also referenced in a similar fashion (ie, a renamed mob) |
| 06:22.37 | bleetah | or npc |
| 06:24.28 | bleetah | I *guess* combining Eloi and Luna, one almost reaches 'Elune', but that's stretching it a bit for my taste beyond mere speculation. |
| 06:25.39 | bleetah | anyways, time for some Red Dwarf indulgence, ttfn |
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| 07:26.53 | pakoz | yo |
| 07:26.55 | pakoz | anyone around? |
| 07:51.11 | Montagg | Somewhat. =c) |
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| 07:59.03 | ThisisSky2042 | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevenings |
| 07:59.10 | ThisisSky2042 | or morning for some of you :X |
| 07:59.21 | Montagg | A little bit of both here. |
| 07:59.26 | ThisisSky2042 | ;P |
| 08:04.36 | ThisisSky2042 | we really need to get {{tooltip}} on the item page ;_; |
| 08:04.46 | ThisisSky2042 | boilerplate:item* |
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| 15:00.08 | Zeal | lo all |
| 15:01.07 | Zeal | <Bagginsww> and certainly his spirit should look orcish <-- it is his spirit you fight. he has no physical body. there's no issue. |
| 15:53.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Morning |
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| 15:55.30 | Kirkburn|afk | tekkub1, interesting - you nick collided before logging into the channels. Using a login script? Cause you could probably get it to change back to Tekkub automagically too |
| 15:58.42 | Zeal | lol |
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| 15:58.47 | Zeal | hey Kirkburn|afk |
| 15:58.51 | Zeal | haha |
| 15:59.02 | Zeal | guess tekkub1 has died |
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| 16:14.15 | Zeal | grr.. |
| 16:14.18 | Zeal | stupid mirc |
| 16:14.49 | Zeal | if a server reports it's name differently than what's in the server lsit, mirc uses the reported name, so when you next connent, it connects both. |
| 16:15.05 | Zeal | Freenode = freenode and WoWIRC = MMOIRC >_< |
| 16:19.30 | Zeal | and theres no way to change it to freenode >_< |
| 16:19.32 | Zeal | ffs |
| 16:20.32 | tekcub | no kirk, someone probably woke my computer at home |
| 16:20.46 | tekcub | which raises the question, what the fuck is he doing on my comp |
| 16:20.51 | tekcub | when he claims to be in bed |
| 16:21.02 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ |
| 16:22.24 | Kirkburn|afk | :O |
| 16:23.53 | Zeal | O_o |
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| 16:52.55 | Zeal | Kirkburn|afk, test http://www.stalker-videogame.com/ in IE7 for me ;) it doesn't work for me, dead window : / |
| 16:53.02 | Zeal | jsut get a dead window and music |
| 16:53.05 | Zeal | works fine in FF. |
| 16:54.30 | equiraptor | Works in Safari. It's a bit slow on my iBook, but it works. |
| 16:55.49 | Zeal | : / |
| 16:55.56 | Zeal | think there's soem shitty coding going on |
| 16:56.03 | Zeal | even the dev site is slow to load in ie7 |
| 16:56.26 | Zeal | missed the beta it seems.. ffs |
| 16:56.29 | Zeal | no one told me :( |
| 16:56.38 | equiraptor | Maybe I should update this Windows box and grab IE7. |
| 16:56.57 | equiraptor | I only have Windows on it for the sake of Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed, so I don't really care if some stuff doesn't work. :) |
| 16:57.10 | Kirkburn|afk | Fine for me, Zeal |
| 16:57.25 | Zeal | lame Kirkburn|afk :( |
| 16:57.34 | Kirkburn|afk | However, the very fact it's an entirely flash website annoys me |
| 16:57.40 | Zeal | aye, same |
| 16:58.27 | Zeal | had stalker pre-ordered since the begining of last year, heh. |
| 16:58.59 | Kirkburn|afk | You can't even use scrolling on the text windows |
| 16:59.06 | Zeal | aye.. |
| 16:59.15 | Zeal | mousewheel > scroll bar |
| 16:59.31 | Kirkburn|afk | Not only that, it's using half my CPU |
| 16:59.37 | Zeal | anyways, gotta go cook food and eat, bbl |
| 16:59.40 | Zeal | rofl |
| 16:59.44 | Zeal | that's flash for ya |
| 16:59.55 | equiraptor | Oh, yeah, I should be finding lunch. |
| 17:00.00 | Kirkburn|afk | Flash doesn't have to be so crappily overdone :/ |
| 17:00.07 | zeal | aye |
| 17:00.22 | Kirkburn|afk | It complements a websites, it shouldn't replace it :) |
| 17:00.30 | zeal | indeed |
| 17:00.46 | Kirkburn|afk | Here's hoping Stalker is good anyway |
| 17:00.54 | Kirkburn|afk | I think PC Gamer has a review next month |
| 17:01.05 | Kirkburn|afk | Was supposed to be this month, but the game wasn't ready |
| 17:13.56 | Montagg | I love how blood elves alluva sudden don't understand Common. |
| 17:16.07 | Kirkburn|afk | Wizards did it |
| 17:37.24 | *** join/#wowwiki Gngsk (n=gngsk@c-69-138-213-251.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:39.39 | Montagg | I think the language patterns of Orcish are so strange that they had to forget Common to learn them. |
| 17:39.54 | Montagg | That's my pet retcon. ;-) |
| 17:40.17 | Montagg | It also makes Thrall a genius. |
| 17:41.27 | Montagg | Off-topic: In my opinion, Lord of the Rings was an incredible series because Peter Jackson successfully combined the genres of Fantasy and the War Movie. |
| 18:10.40 | tequini | but weren't those already combined in the novels? |
| 18:10.52 | tequini | he brought them from the novel to the screen |
| 18:21.50 | Kirkburn|afk | True, but it had never been done before |
| 18:40.28 | zeal | cheese! |
| 18:41.32 | Zeal | well the MP i'm hoping will make for a good replacement to CS, considering the gameplay was developed based on it. |
| 18:42.05 | Zeal | SP i'm sure will be good, even if they did decide to drop MMO aspect. |
| 18:42.49 | Zeal | the AL should make up for the loss of that. |
| 18:45.12 | Zeal | god the D&D movie sucks.. |
| 18:45.21 | Zeal | i forgot how badly |
| 18:45.53 | Zeal | even the sets and cgi sucked.. |
| 18:50.33 | tequini | why are they nurfing druid so hard? :( |
| 18:52.00 | Zeal | because tree huggers always need something to complain about it, so blizzard thought they'd show they care about their needs ;) |
| 18:52.17 | Zeal | *-it |
| 18:52.33 | tequini | qft |
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| 19:14.18 | Kirkburn|afk | My druid housemate completely agrees with most of the druids changes |
| 19:14.59 | Thrae | New Druid changes in 2.0, or the latest patch? |
| 19:15.06 | Kirkburn|afk | Latest patch |
| 19:15.13 | Kirkburn|afk | His DPS in bear form was way way ott |
| 19:15.32 | Zeal | but nerfing his health too? |
| 19:15.38 | Kirkburn|afk | It didn't |
| 19:15.51 | Kirkburn|afk | One of his guild members checked - he actually gained health |
| 19:15.52 | Zeal | it changed health to stamina |
| 19:15.54 | Zeal | that's an nerf |
| 19:16.02 | Kirkburn|afk | Apparently not |
| 19:16.02 | Zeal | possibly getting a stamina buff |
| 19:16.17 | Zeal | ie, 15% stamina increase |
| 19:16.24 | Zeal | not looekd at what talents offer that |
| 19:16.34 | Zeal | but its a nerf to everyone without such a talent. |
| 19:16.39 | Kirkburn|afk | As I say, he checked and he gained health |
| 19:16.49 | Zeal | and as i said, probably his talent :p |
| 19:16.58 | Kirkburn|afk | Yes, so it's not a nerf for him |
| 19:17.09 | Kirkburn|afk | :) |
| 19:17.18 | Thrae | Where's the patch notes? |
| 19:17.30 | Kirkburn|afk | On Blizz website |
| 19:17.49 | xaque | is the latest patch 2.0.8 or 2.0.9? |
| 19:17.54 | Kirkburn|afk | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html |
| 19:18.01 | Kirkburn|afk | 2.0.10 will be next |
| 19:18.04 | Kirkburn|afk | 2.0.8 is current |
| 19:18.09 | Kirkburn|afk | 2.0.9 was Taiwan only |
| 19:18.13 | Zeal | aye |
| 19:18.14 | xaque | oh, okay |
| 19:18.21 | Zeal | still on 2.0.8 everywhere else |
| 19:18.57 | Kirkburn|afk | WoW is taking over so many Google search results these days :P |
| 19:19.07 | *** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-23-81.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:19.50 | Kirkburn|afk | Search "druid" for example, and look at the results :) |
| 19:20.52 | Thrae | bah worldofwarcraft's site only has 2.0.5 |
| 19:21.44 | *** join/#wowwiki Gnarfoz (i=smallbra@unaffiliated/gnarfoz) |
| 19:22.17 | Zeal | lol |
| 19:22.23 | Zeal | huh Thrae? |
| 19:22.51 | Thrae | worldofwarcraft's page only has 2.0.5 notes and below |
| 19:24.01 | Zeal | weird :s |
| 19:30.05 | Gnarfoz | drrr wowwiki timing out on me :\ |
| 19:31.54 | Zeal | geting some really weird flash and javascript issues.. |
| 19:32.02 | Zeal | ie javascript not loading right, flash flickering |
| 19:32.08 | Zeal | think i need to restart :S |
| 19:46.07 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 19:49.41 | Thrae | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/ <-- doesn't have any mention of Druids in latest patch? |
| 19:53.31 | Zeal | 2.0.10 |
| 19:53.34 | Zeal | test notes |
| 19:53.37 | Zeal | not live |
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| 19:53.59 | Zeal | http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html |
| 20:32.09 | Shadowed | so what category would something on name plate modification go in anyway, API? |
| 20:38.46 | Gnarfoz | naw, your addon does not supply an API as its main function, does it? ^^ |
| 20:41.08 | Shadowed | Not an addon, just general information on how name plates work and ways you can modify them |
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| 21:24.06 | Gnarfoz | Shadowed: no clue :D |
| 21:27.26 | bleetah | just so you're aware, there is gunna be another PTR build somestage.. whether the changes change... we'll have to wait and see |
| 21:32.07 | Zeal | aye, we (well me atleat) know bleetah :p |
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| 22:02.32 | *** mode/#wowwiki [+o Kirkburn] by ChanServ |
| 22:11.55 | Zeal | hey Kirkburn :P |
| 22:12.00 | *** part/#wowwiki xaque (n=xaque@216.141.24.7) |
| 22:54.01 | Tekkub | Zeal, that formatting ain't bad, but the blue background makes the links hard to read |
| 22:54.17 | Zeal | make it darker if ya want |
| 22:54.19 | Tekkub | both red links and blue ones :P |
| 22:54.23 | Zeal | fien for me though |
| 22:54.30 | Zeal | lol, both are fine for me.. |
| 22:55.02 | Zeal | if anything, the neutral one is hard to read. |
| 22:56.14 | Tekkub | http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6991/badlinksgg6.jpg |
| 22:56.30 | Tekkub | visited blue and stub red look aweful |
| 22:57.36 | Zeal | well that doesn't help because the iamge is compressed to fuck |
| 22:57.36 | Zeal | red looks fine |
| 22:57.36 | Zeal | as do normal links |
| 22:57.38 | Zeal | visisted however, granted |
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| 22:57.51 | Tekkub | ^^ |
| 22:58.25 | Zeal | imo, it's cos visited link colour sucks :p |
| 22:58.29 | Zeal | lol |
| 22:58.55 | Zeal | it's verging on violet, heh. |
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| 23:03.30 | Kirkburn | Btw, if there are any angry priests here - http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/forums.worldofwarcraft.com/79200279.htm |
| 23:05.48 | *** join/#wowwiki Viper007Bond (n=viper@71-215-153-28.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 23:07.21 | Tekkub | and Zeal, re: your style edits... WTB CSS PST |
| 23:07.32 | Zeal | indeed |
| 23:07.53 | Tekkub | just looking at all that code makes me not want to even screw with it |
| 23:08.19 | Tekkub | whereas if I could edit a single chunk of CSS........ |
| 23:08.21 | Tekkub | ... |
| 23:08.23 | Tekkub | .. |
| 23:08.24 | Tekkub | . |
| 23:08.57 | Zeal | you can mostly c&p it |
| 23:09.15 | Tekkub | pfft, effort |
| 23:10.00 | Zeal | anything with before the rep column, can be put before or after a bar cell. and then just change the colspans |
| 23:10.23 | Kirkburn | Um, isn't there a CSS property to do border like that? |
| 23:10.41 | Kirkburn | I'll reword that ... this is a CSS property to do that |
| 23:10.46 | Kirkburn | *there |
| 23:11.30 | Zeal | no, not like that Kirkburn |
| 23:11.55 | Kirkburn | Embossed? |
| 23:11.59 | Zeal | it's crap |
| 23:12.13 | Zeal | and the colours are chosen by the browser |
| 23:12.45 | Zeal | and it doesn't take into account when you want borders to collapse (and border-collapse is too over eager to be useful) |
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| 23:26.38 | Kirkburn | Did some tests with "outset", yup IE7 and FF2 do it completely differently |
| 23:26.57 | Kirkburn | IE7 is the one in the wrong, but I know why it's still like that |
| 23:27.26 | Kirkburn | The devs didn't want to risk breaking many people's pages with IE7. Hopefully IE8 :) |
| 23:27.41 | Zeal | what do you meant Kirkburn, dirrectnly how? |
| 23:27.58 | Kirkburn | "dirrectnly" ? |
| 23:28.04 | Kirkburn | How did I test it? |
| 23:28.07 | Zeal | and i know FF does border left and right full height, while border top and bottom drop the pixel on the ends |
| 23:28.15 | Zeal | *different :S |
| 23:28.27 | Kirkburn | I did border:1px #XXX outset |
| 23:28.53 | Kirkburn | IE7 darkens the #XXX over the entire thing (grrr), whereas FF2 takes the #XXX to be the top and left borders |
| 23:29.06 | Zeal | where as, windows, even as it does in it's OS, does each border 1px short, so left overlaps bottom, bottom overlaps right, right overlaps top, top overlaps left. |
| 23:29.17 | Kirkburn | This has nothing to do with spacing |
| 23:29.22 | Zeal | er.. i would choose IE7's method |
| 23:29.31 | Kirkburn | No, I mean #XXX is never used |
| 23:29.37 | Zeal | yeah |
| 23:29.46 | Zeal | that's what i'd want |
| 23:29.52 | Kirkburn | It just darkens #XXX for the top and left borders, and MORE for the right and bottom |
| 23:30.02 | Zeal | it shouldn't darken |
| 23:30.05 | Kirkburn | If I choose a colour for my border, I want it to actually exist on the border! |
| 23:30.09 | Zeal | it should lighten two of them |
| 23:30.14 | Kirkburn | It doesn't |
| 23:30.26 | Zeal | i don't Kirkburn, because that's how i've always doen borders |
| 23:30.41 | Kirkburn | What, you take a guess at what the browsers colour? |
| 23:30.47 | Kirkburn | (will be) |
| 23:31.03 | Zeal | i start with a base background, lighten for highlight, darken for shadow. if i have no bg colour, i still want them drerived fro mthe same base colour. |
| 23:31.17 | Kirkburn | Yes. IE7 doesn't appear to do that |
| 23:31.24 | Zeal | yeah. it should be |
| 23:31.27 | Kirkburn | IE7 just darkens both |
| 23:31.33 | Zeal | well thats lame |
| 23:31.41 | Zeal | but either way, i wouldn't want FF's method |
| 23:32.02 | Zeal | no idea which is correct, couldn't care less because w3c never do thigns that are desirable.. |
| 23:32.21 | Kirkburn | If you want exact colouring for outset, is it not better to know exactly what at least one of the colours is?# |
| 23:32.41 | Kirkburn | Again, don't go blaming the WC3 people without reason |
| 23:33.02 | Zeal | i've given my reason |
| 23:33.11 | Zeal | i don't want that colour to be in the border, no. |
| 23:33.17 | Kirkburn | Yes, but do you actually know if it's WC3's fault? |
| 23:33.26 | Zeal | i expect it to be a base colour to derive the two colours. |
| 23:33.47 | Zeal | no |
| 23:34.02 | Zeal | but that's irrelevent, as i didn't blame them |
| 23:34.46 | Kirkburn | "no idea which is correct, couldn't care less because w3c never do thigns that are desirable." |
| 23:34.48 | Zeal | simply saying, because w3c usually fuck things up, if it's their fault, i don't care who's right, i'm siding with IE7. |
| 23:34.57 | Zeal | yes |
| 23:35.01 | Zeal | never blamed them Kirkburn |
| 23:35.03 | Kirkburn | You ARE blaming them |
| 23:35.09 | Zeal | no, i'm fucking not |
| 23:35.19 | Kirkburn | You're saying it's W3C's fault! |
| 23:35.21 | Zeal | i said they never do things that are desirable |
| 23:35.26 | Kirkburn | How the HELL is that not blaming them? |
| 23:35.41 | Zeal | wtf? |
| 23:35.44 | Zeal | there's no lbame |
| 23:35.55 | Zeal | thats a fact, completely seperate fro mthe issue |
| 23:36.28 | Zeal | i didn't say "it's w3c's fault, they never do things that are desirable and this is evident of it yet again" |
| 23:36.35 | Kirkburn | Oh whatever. |
| 23:39.13 | Zeal | dunno how you see that as placing blame. if either FF is doing it as w3c specify, i don't care because it's not desirable, as with most things the w3c specify. there's no blame in that ¬_¬ |
| 23:40.48 | Kirkburn|afk | That's an odd use of the word blame. You say something is due to someone, yet somehow you're not blaming them? Anyway, so far I can't find a W3C specification on the method to be used. |
| 23:41.12 | Kirkburn|afk | And what on earth you have against W3C I don't know. |
| 23:42.25 | Zeal | there's an IF in my second wording, in my first wording, i never even said one way or the other, just i don't care and why. |
| 23:42.37 | Kirkburn|afk | Blame the lack of organisation in the early days of the internet, the competition between IE and Netscape and their disregard for standardisation ... but don't blame the W3C who spend their days attempting to sort out all the crap and mvoe the internet forward. |
| 23:42.41 | Zeal | so no, i didn't say anything was due to anyone. |
| 23:44.54 | Kirkburn|afk | Why do you have this odd vendetta against W3C? |
| 23:45.44 | Zeal | i can't criticize w3c because of the browser wars? My main point, is much of how microsoft did things, were desirable and better, but w3c decided to go against that, make something that no browser was doing at the time., yet is not desirable. Probably because they had an uncealr and convoluted view of how sites should be used/made and what for. |
| 23:46.12 | Zeal | because much of the stuff they standardize is counter productive and causes issues that are easily resolved. |
| 23:46.54 | Kirkburn|afk | "how microsoft did things, were desirable and better" hah. I'm sorry, but that's just a silly comment. |
| 23:47.13 | Zeal | much of |
| 23:47.15 | Zeal | not all |
| 23:47.21 | Zeal | and it's not at all |
| 23:47.30 | Zeal | they probably had as biased ad view as you. |
| 23:47.35 | Zeal | *a |
| 23:47.51 | Kirkburn|afk | Oh right, because I disagree I'm biased? |
| 23:47.55 | Zeal | i couldn't care who made it, if it was desirable, then it was a good idea. |
| 23:47.57 | Kirkburn|afk | I use IE7 ffs |
| 23:48.07 | Zeal | you wouldn't given the choice? :P |
| 23:49.56 | Zeal | eg. padding being internal, not effecting the width of the element. there's no reason ever to not want that. but because of w3c standard, to produce the same desired effect, you have to use twice the number of elements. |
| 23:50.14 | Zeal | and through that, margins then become a blurred use |
| 23:51.43 | *** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk) |
| 23:51.53 | Zeal | then we have the silly margin collapsing rules. collapsing margins inside elements to external ones for example. hm.. what next. |
| 23:52.16 | Zeal | the differences between height and width when they should both operate the same way. |
| 23:52.33 | Zeal | lack of verticle align on elements |
| 23:52.59 | Kirkburn|afk | I disagree, borders should be outside the box |
| 23:53.09 | Zeal | borders? |
| 23:53.21 | Kirkburn|afk | Sorry, misread |
| 23:53.26 | Zeal | kk, heh. |
| 23:55.09 | Zeal | the whole border model of tables is a bitch, as well as the lack of heritage or applying to first child capable of styling for tables like IE still does. |
| 23:56.39 | Zeal | the oversight with floats ignoring margins, padding and bullets on it's surroundings. |
| 23:58.17 | Zeal | inability to control overflow well. |
| 23:59.19 | Zeal | ie, being able to do such things as next column for verticle overflow, and better control of new lines in overflow. |
| 23:59.58 | Zeal | those two things would actually made css usefull for dynamic sites like a wiki. |
