irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070221

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01:07.18BarbanusSome weird display errors with this page:
01:07.27BarbanusBy the tooltips at the bottom
01:07.29Barbanus"This article is a transcludable page, therefore it may only contain a few words, a tooltip or a price tag"
01:13.11BarbanusAparantly the template there is flagged for deletion ... anyone know what template is supposed to be used instead? :)
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01:16.33JeohCould someone please take a look at and tell me what went wrong? Over here, the navigation bar is displayed at the bottom left of the page, instead of below the icon.
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01:45.02zealnn all
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01:56.03JeohCould someone please take a look at and tell me what went wrong? Over here, the navigation bar is displayed at the bottom left of the page, instead of below the icon.
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03:16.30MontaggI currently have more +shadow damage at 54 than the Voidheart (lock t4) set has in spell damage...
03:21.06sancusvoidheart is 5 pieces?
03:31.15Montaggsancus: True, so I suppose that leaves some room to grow.
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04:12.15Sky2042hmm, question here
04:14.40Sky2042hehe, hey. give me a sec to phrase my question without hurting one's head
04:15.38sancusbetter luck next time
04:16.28Sky2042eh, eff it. here goes:
04:17.19Sky2042using the template {{usertable}}, is it possible to make the characters appear as a link with their name in it, rather than the entire [[user:username/toonname]]?
04:18.15Sky2042because i be confoosed >_<
04:19.55sancushow should I know
04:20.04sancusI've edited the wiki like twice
04:21.30Sky2042then how are you admin on here? you own the server? :O
04:22.33sancusim part-owner, you could say
04:22.49sancusI do my absolute best to avoid the day to day operations of the wiki :)
04:24.01MontaggSky2042: A quick way to get around that is to pass usertable your character's name, and then make the page it links to a redirect to your character's page so it doesn't show up as an empty link.
04:24.19MontaggSky2042: I actually don't like the way usertable handles that situation, personally. Could use a recode.
04:25.04Sky2042it definitely could be... >_>
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04:29.37AdysGfh fghgf hd ff's moves all reverted now
04:30.41Sky2042evening adys
04:31.09MontaggIf you like, you can use User:Montag/Pcbar, even though it's still in "beta" (as much as templates can be in beta). It allows you to specify everything using item=value, inserts placeholders where nothing is specified, and gives you the option of linking or not linking the name.
04:31.28MontaggI'm using it for myself on User:Montag/Nariana
04:31.52Montagg   and
04:33.45Adyscan someone fix ?
04:34.00Adysthe page is badly fucked up
04:34.34MontaggAdys: In what way?
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04:34.52Adys only me theres a huge empty space on the left?
04:34.53AdysI use firefox
04:34.57Sky2042oh that
04:35.00Sky2042yeah, i saw that...
04:35.10Sky2042didn't even realize what happened :/
04:35.16MontaggAhh, I see.
04:35.27Sky2042i'd go with a simple reversion :x
04:35.46MontaggOccured two edits ago.
04:36.00Adysaye on the diff link i gave
04:36.34MontaggSomeone probably forgot to close something.
04:37.10MontaggThere it is.
04:37.18MontaggLine 197 on the newest version.
04:38.01MontaggA closed table and then a new row.
04:38.21MontaggThis whole page needs to get converted to divs. It's code is fugly.
04:39.27Sky2042then i'd have a look at'jaeden_US , as I'm fairly certain where the original code came from...\
04:39.49Sky2042lol, oops
04:40.11Sky2042'jaeden_US <--- fixed link
04:40.18MontaggI've seen that page style before, I think on a server named after some dreadlord.
04:40.41Sky2042ok, not kil'jaeden... :/
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04:41.04AdysWas gryphen's server Im pretty sure
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04:41.15Adysat least was him who initiated it
04:41.21Sky2042ack, nvm
04:41.35Sky2042but yeah, it was gryphen's server :x
04:41.42Sky2042mal'ganis. thats the one
04:41.45Adysmalganis aye
04:42.32Adyslove the page
04:42.34Adys"Goon Squad - First Horde guild to ever kill Thrall and Vol'jin"
04:45.55MontaggI still don't understand that one, but I'll take their word for it.
04:46.10Adysthe Test of Lore debuff
04:46.40MontaggBy the way, Sky2042: Was Pcbar useful at all, or did you do the redirect trick?
04:49.44Sky2042I haven't even touched the page. xD
04:50.40Sky2042started to tinker with my server's progression page, using the stuff at mal'ganis...and now it has the same problem
04:50.47Sky2042ah well, i'll go looking for it
04:52.17MontaggI would advise against ultra haughty stuff like Mal'Ganis style for server page. I'd embrace the wiki style rather than try to overdo it.
04:52.31MontaggLooks amazing, but it's almost /too/ much.
04:53.17Sky2042just borrowing the progression part of it
04:53.24Sky2042the rest -is- too much
04:53.41Sky2042and even though it would be nice to have all that pretty, I'll stick with how the server is atm
05:18.44Sky2042finally fixed it (partially) for my page... :x
05:23.41Sky2042i give in
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05:56.40Sky2042question about reverts
05:57.05Sky2042how do you get the text in the reason for editing box that says, eg, "Reverted edits by Doom lord kazzak (Talk); changed back to last version by Sky2042"
06:03.19Cairennsec *goes to check*
06:03.43Sky2042btw, ogre is back
06:03.46Adysneed to be admin to revert like that sky
06:03.53Adysits a rollback link
06:04.10Adysfor easy massreverts when vandals are being annoying
06:04.28Sky2042that makes me sad
06:06.58Cairennand I'm not an admin
06:07.05Adysbut you are not able to rollback changes massively
06:07.15Adysit puts a note automatically
06:07.21Cairennah,. okay
06:07.45AdysReverted edits by [[User:Vandal|Vandal]], rolled back to last version by [[User:Wikian|Wikian]]
06:07.52AdysActually no
06:08.09AdysReverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vandal|Vandal]], rolled back to last version by [[User:Wikian|Wikian]]
06:08.18Sky2042and there goes the server :x
06:08.27AdysYeah sorry for that
06:08.32Adysedited Raid Dungeons template
06:08.39Sky2042bad adys!
06:08.48Adystis back
06:09.06Adysits linked in what, 30 articles
06:09.17Adysand it puts the wiki down for 1 minute :/
06:09.19Sky2042more, i think
06:09.50Adys34 inclusions 1 link
06:09.56Sky2042lookz to be... ah nvm
06:10.10Sky2042are you just a fast counter, or...?
06:10.49Adysand yeah i think it sucks aswell that theres not a summary of link numbers up somewhere
06:11.30Finbon matin!
06:11.39Finkeeeeerist this is early to be WAKING up
06:11.50Adysfin :D
06:12.03Fin'ella :)
06:12.04Adysare you working today?! its 7am! :)
06:12.13Fingot some training this morning
06:12.17Adysand be glad, I woke up at like 5am
06:12.17Finand tomorrow morning!
06:13.22Finnope... no, I'm sorry, I just can't seem to summon up any "glad"
06:13.30Finit's still far too fucking early
06:13.39Adysinfobot, hug fin
06:13.47infobotACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs fin
06:14.01Finright! shower and shazoom, I'm off
06:14.09Adysbubai :)
06:14.13infobotACTION has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))
06:14.15Sky2042eh, you are weak! you know not the swimmer's life :x
06:21.54Adys im seeing this over and over again
06:21.56Adysi love this
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06:31.38MontaggFor me it's *late* so I'm going to bed. 'nite fellas.
06:33.50Sky2042lol nite
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06:38.38Adysnn montag
06:40.18Sky2042can someone check and tell me why I can't figure out how to fix the table; I used the Ability boilerplate for it...
06:40.46Adyssorry, i suck with tables and styling
06:44.00Sky2042nvm, im just blind :]
06:44.20Sky2042however, do you think the titles of the table could be changed? :/
06:44.51Adysno idea :p
06:45.33Sky2042damn frechies
06:50.12Sky2042aaaaaaaa i clicked theeeeeeeere
06:52.30Sky2042why aren't we adding general item ideas anymore? :/
06:52.46Sky2042you just 'boilerplated' and removed the whole "intro" to the item
06:52.57Sky2042to Gloves of Spell Master
06:54.18amrobecause 95% of items don't need intros
06:58.12Adyswhat amro said
06:58.37AdysSometimes its just to say "Hey this cloth item with 10 int and 10 spirit is mainly for casters."
06:59.12Adysbecame ridiculous at some point - important infos should go in == Notes ==
06:59.54Sky2042And then the article looks empty. :/
07:00.25Adyswe are revamping that atm
07:00.44Adyswhen the server gets its upgrade and we get the parser functions there will be huge changes to item pages
07:02.05Sky2042ah... the upgrade that was supposed to be here sunday? ;p
07:02.28Sky2042is it a hardware or software upgrade?
07:03.19Adysboth i think
07:03.44Sky2042ah... incoming template edit :x
07:03.49Sky2042i think...
07:04.09Adysk go ahead :P
07:04.40Sky2042k, done
07:04.52Sky2042and our server didnt die...
07:05.39Sky2042still looks good to me...
07:06.22Sky2042it isn't just the templates... there's something else going on here too that's killing the server...
07:06.32Sky2042else the site would've just shut down
07:07.27AdysTemplate:Player is not really that used
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07:08.17Sky2042more than the dungeons template you edited earlier
07:10.47Adyschrist im the only one checking speedydelete and delete categories nowadays ><
07:11.34Sky2042you could make me an admin... XP
07:11.42Adysnope i cant :p
07:11.45Adysbeg fandy
07:12.07Sky2042i'm just sure he'll jump at the chance =X
07:16.12Sky2042mmm, adding some more {{speedydelete}} fun
07:16.38Adyshere goes the wiki
07:17.36Sky2042whatd u edit?
07:18.42Adysno idea
07:18.57Sky2042nope, its good
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07:24.29Sky2042my god adys
07:24.58Sky2042yes you can!
07:25.42AdysI just broke my delete button
07:33.09Sky2042that was mine to tag with a speedy
07:37.30Sky2042hmm, ogre is spreading his gospel. has to be the third or fourth place he's put that on...
07:39.24bleetah"and Diablo II's story was larger Bill Roper's" ? maybe should be 'largely'?
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07:41.11Sky2042prolly ;p
07:42.21bleetahof course, it could be that Bill Roper is a XXXL wearing type of guy, I have no idea on that score
07:42.38bleetahand there was also a guy at BLizz at the time whose name was Bill Roper, and he wore the XXXXS
07:42.53bleetahI'll go with the first theory, that it's a typo
07:43.06Adysim seriously fed up of hearing about ogre in this channel
07:44.08Sky2042go go adys!
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07:55.45Sky2042you edit a template, any of ye?
07:56.02AdysTekkub, you here?
08:01.51Sky2042wtf was edited? >:(
08:02.01AdysNo idea
08:02.56Sky2042oh well, theres always smash world and warcraftrealms forums to peruse, not to mention the wow forums...
08:05.42Sky2042its back
08:14.26Sky2042lol adys'
08:14.28Sky2042you amuse me
08:14.46AdysUseless redirects ftl
08:15.02Sky2042and now i'm adding another redirect ;P
08:15.10Adysah sod off><
08:17.09Sky2042go ahead and delete [[Serris Shatterstar]]
08:18.02Adysnah its still linked and i cba to fix them
08:18.14Sky2042pretty sure its not linked anymore...
08:18.21Adys2 links left :P
08:18.43Sky2042refresh your cache then
08:18.46Sky2042i deleted both of them
08:18.57Sky2042or edited them, if you will
08:20.21Sky2042where have i seen that word before...
08:22.08Sky2042nothing links there, i'm serious
08:22.19Sky2042you need to refresh your browser or somethin :/
08:22.31Adysill check it up in a bit :p
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09:24.54Kirkburn|afkNetsplits ftw, and good morning
09:27.07Sky2042or evening; I'm going to bed now
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10:09.03Kirkburn|afkI must say, it's amazing how many self-righteous idiots there are out there
10:10.02Kirkburn|afkThat Stardock would dare charge people for a high-quality animated Vista desktop has really brought out the brainless today :/
10:10.16Kirkburn|afkHo hum
10:11.21Kirkburn|afk(this is what I'm referring to -
10:13.05zealadys wtf have you been doing!?
10:15.51Zeallo all btw
10:16.16Kirkburn|afkAnd wassup?
10:16.45ZealAdys, making changes to templates, no discussion or reason given to the changes.
10:17.06Zealand from what i can see, all of them were either uneccesary or detrimental to their use.
10:18.46Zealand i'm waiting on what this "see IRC" is supposed to be as to while adys has not been waiting for the outcome of the elinks vote and changing articles already.
10:18.54Zeal*as to why
10:19.35Kirkburn|afkDisconnects ftw
10:19.43Kirkburn|afkI doubt Adys got your msg
10:20.29Zealnot bothered, i'll repeat it when hes alive again
10:20.52Kirkburn|afkOh right, I think he's trying to reduce the calls on templates
10:22.02Kirkburn|afkIt was only two templates :P
10:23.06Zealyes.. removing the category for delete vote, removing my template category, removing authorship, substing a template (so now the template is seperate and i have to edit two templates that have the exact same format and function), removing parts of a template he didn't undrstand.. yeah sure.
10:24.05Zealtheres a reason why even wikipedia uses recursive templates that share the same functionality..
10:24.19Kirkburn|afkYes, yes, I know
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10:25.44Kirkburn|afkI don't like your template category tbh
10:26.03Kirkburn|afkSince when did you write the majority of that template?
10:26.34Zeali didn't never claimed i did
10:26.50Kirkburn|afkNo, but that's the impression it gives
10:27.13Zealand the discussion over the validity of it in the village pump archives rather than repeating myself
10:27.33Zealyeah, simply because no one else botheres to do it. doesn't make it any less valid.
10:27.43Zealthe authorship clears it up anyways.
10:28.24Zeallol@angry ogre again
10:28.40Kirkburn|afkI'm specifically talking about the category, not the authorship bit :)
10:29.10Zealyes, it was discussed along side it
10:29.20Zealbut they do balance each other anyways.
10:31.18Adysoi dont throw pages at me meanie
10:34.18Zeal"i didn't never claimed i did" <-- wtf am i smoking there? :S
10:35.56Kirkburn|afkGrammar ftw :P
10:38.33AdysBack n sorted :P
10:39.07AdysKirkburn|afk: I had to delete during the night a batch of Server talk redirects since they were server disambigs
10:39.15Adyswe really need to sort these articles
10:39.41Kirkburn|afkI think I saw that convo briefly
10:45.02Zeali finished my movie btw.. i'm still messing with encoding though to get the right quality and filze size.. it becoems shit if i reduce it below about 60mb though, which is ridiculous for an under 4 min video..
10:46.20Zealand reducing the film resolution by half onyl drops like 5MB.. it makes no sense..
10:47.35Adys <3
10:49.58Adysreading the quotes around, loving it
10:50.03Adys<malaclypse> The general rule on about people on IRC seems to be "Attractive, single, mentally stable: choose two"
10:51.39Zealguess i must be single and mentally stable :p
10:52.11AdysNo to mentally stable tbh :P
10:53.52Zealsaying i'm attractive? ;)
10:54.04AdysMore than mentally stable for sure :P
10:56.18Zeal46.7MB zipped at half size and lowest quality ('m willing to go)
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11:00.39Adysthis one is just great
11:02.12Zeallol adys
11:03.24Adys :p
11:04.02Zeali've only ever had 1 femalre friend i wasn't interested in, lol. but the others knew i was, but they wre involved already :p
11:06.09Adys<1> please tell me if there's any way to check if a table exist in mysql database
11:06.09Adys<2> if (mysql_query('DROP TABLE table_name')) echo "table existed";
11:11.25Zealhm.. full size, low quality 76MB zipped
11:15.21Adysmorning infobot
11:26.52Zealfuc off svchost!!
11:29.42Zeal118MB zipped, full size, high quality : /
11:31.00AdysI say morning to infobot and you say fuck off to svchost
11:31.46Zealinnit blud
11:37.14Zeal64.8mb, half size, high quality, zipped
11:37.40Zeali really can't recommend the small low quality one, heh.
11:38.58Zealimma try dropping the fps to 25, see if i can shave off some mb's
11:39.10Adyswhat kind of movie is it anyways :p
11:39.16Zealwarcraft music video
11:39.53Zealdone to Within Tempation - Towards the End, using wc3 and wow cinematics footage
11:43.45Zealthis probably won't be final anyways.. i expect constructive criticism :p
11:44.01Zealalready a few things i would change if people don't like them
11:47.01Kirkburn|afkHeh, I bring my Vista PC out of sleep mode, and it shuts down on me :P Yay for delayed shut downs!
11:49.56Kirkburn|afkI'm sure XP was like this when it came out ... c'mon driver people, hurry up!
11:50.24bleetahiirc, only to people coming from 98/ME
11:50.34bleetahI went to XP from 2000, didn't have any driver problems I can recall
11:50.58bleetahbut I could be compeltely wrong, seeing it's been aoubt.. 6 years since I 'really' used windows
11:51.27Kirkburn|afkheh ... I mostly put it down to the sounds and gfx drivers atm
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11:51.58Kirkburn|afkCreative's still aren't out of beta, and nVidia ... well, I can't think of appropriate words for them atm
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11:52.50bleetahyeah, well some vendors weren't too thrilled with the supposed H/W changes needed, so I really dunno.. *shrug*
11:53.21bleetahbut I bet it's the reason there ain't been a new linux driver for a couple of months
11:53.46Zeali don't see why nvidia wouldn't be happy about the hardware changes
11:53.52Zealit boosts their sales
11:54.16Kirkburn|afkI know the changes effectively prevent EAX for Creative
11:54.41bleetahyeah, well I guess it really comes down to how much re-jigging of stuff under the hood's required
11:55.06Zeal27 mins for the upload
11:55.10bleetahand then the whole testing, and heaven forbid if there's something wrong in the circuitry, etc. etc.
11:55.14Zealuploading the small high quality version
11:55.40Kirkburn|afkYeah, QA is longer than most realise
11:55.51Kirkburn|afkBtw, did you mean an nVidia linux driver?
11:56.11bleetahi presume they try to keep some kinda parity in capabilities, etc. in some areas
11:56.26bleetahi mean, there was a release in January, but that would've already been a month or so old ;)
11:56.42Zeal50 KB/s up, nice..
11:56.44Kirkburn|afknV's releases are sporadic at best
11:56.51Zealdidn't know i could go that high
11:57.05Kirkburn|afkThey've said they're gonna try to do monthly releases like ATi in future at least
11:57.30Kirkburn|afkWhat connection do you have Zeal?
11:58.10Zealbt, 8 meg
11:58.22Zealdunno what my up is
11:58.34Zeal512? :s
11:59.20Kirkburn|afkThat would be likely
11:59.49Kirkburn|afkSo apprently nV have just released the 100.65 drivers officially.
12:00.00Kirkburn|afkThese being the same drivers that fail for me about 10 times a day.
12:00.15Zeali've nevr come close to reaching 512 kbps though
12:00.24Zealand never even reached 6mbps
12:01.31Kirkburn|afkI wouldn't expect much more then 500KB/s on any line
12:02.02Kirkburn|afk(kB not kb, I guess should clarify)
12:02.19Kirkburn|afk(really, why did they call them bits and bytes?! WHY??)
12:03.18Kirkburn|afk50KB/s up is about right for a 512 upline, 500KB/s down is about right for an 8MB downline
12:04.01Kirkburn|afkVaries, since some compression is possible on some transfers
12:04.51Kirkburn|afkSo ends today's ramblings
12:05.33Zeal500KB/s on 8mb?
12:05.36Zealthat's way off
12:06.51Zeal8Mb/s being a theoretical limit of 1024 KB/s, you should be looking at atleast 800 KB/s
12:07.18Zealbut naturally, i'm not getting that.
12:07.53Zeal2048 KB/s limit for sky, heh.
12:08.11Zealbut sadly, i can't switch cos i'm sitll on contract with bt..
12:08.43Kirkburn|afkIt's not BT's fault
12:08.51Zealavrg upload is 35 KB/s : /
12:08.54Kirkburn|afkIt's just a physical restriction of the lines and the internet
12:09.18Kirkburn|afkI guess you could put it down to BT in a way
12:09.23Kirkburn|afkThey just need to upgrade more lines
12:09.45Zealthe lines have nothing to do with it. they don't offer what they can't support. they actually said, my line only supports up to 6.5 Mb/s
12:10.22Kirkburn|afkYes, the lines have something to do with it
12:10.39Kirkburn|afkAs does distance from exchange, line clarity, etc
12:11.08Kirkburn|afkEven if you switched to another supplier, you wouldn't get much higher speeds
12:11.10Zealno, i'm saying the line speeds have nothing to do with it, because they tell you the line limit
12:11.19Kirkburn|afkThat line limit is only an estimate
12:11.33Zealit's still what they are saying
12:11.42Kirkburn|afkThe estimate for my line at home is only about 1MB, when I get speeds for a 3MB line
12:11.51Zealtherefore, nothing to do with it.
12:12.08Zealthne the person who gave you the estimate is a fool?
12:12.28Kirkburn|afkIt's a computer calculated number online
12:12.39Kirkburn|afkMy point is, you cannot obtain 8MB on a UK line atm without being in a special area, such as central London
12:12.53Zealbt make it clear, although you may pay for 8mb, it will onyl support up to the line limit, but 8mb is only available to those who have a line limit above 2mb.
12:13.29Kirkburn|afkYes. I'm not sure what we're arguing here.
12:13.46Kirkburn|afkI'm saying that even if you change supplier, it won't help.
12:14.19Zealsaying that the line limit has no impact on what speed you get within your limit, only the limit.
12:14.24amroKirkburn|afk: it might. it could be because of the supplier
12:14.44Zealwell sky for one are using their own backbone.
12:14.52Zealso i do wonder
12:15.11Zealand i will see what sky say about line limit.
12:15.12Kirkburn|afkOkay, if you change to a cable supplier, then that's a different line
12:15.30Zealnot evne the same technology :p
12:15.42Kirkburn|afkI'm saying all home phone lines just won't get near 8MB for a while :P
12:16.24Zealanyways.. i'm saving money with sky, loosing my limits, and getting double my theorectical limit, so i'm eager to switch.
12:16.38Zeal*usage limits
12:16.41Kirkburn|afkHow does Sky broadband work, anyway?
12:16.51Kirkburn|afkThey're not a cable company (obviously :P )
12:17.06Kirkburn|afkSurely that's still "BT" lines?
12:17.36Zealbut if they are able to upgrade them themselves is another matter.
12:17.42Kirkburn|afkHmm, I don't think it'll help then, depending on your location
12:18.07Kirkburn|afkYou'd really have to be in the centre of a city to get the benefit iirc
12:18.32Zealand seeing as there was the whole issue with bt not allowing people acess to do so, got fined and forced to change that (though it's taken them about 8 years..).. it's possible.
12:18.45Zeal*allowing other companies
12:20.03Zealmost isp's are simply bt resellers. only a few aren't.
12:20.16Zealand as far as i can tell, sky isnt.
12:21.48Zealapprently, sky says 16Mb is availalbe in my area anyways.
12:21.59Zealbut that's as likely as bt saying 8Mb was..
12:22.34Zeallet me know what ya think :p
12:24.49Zeal lol (relevent to sky bb)
12:25.32Kirkburn|afk16MB, hah! :P
12:26.22Kirkburn|afk"while it waits for Microsoft to upgrade its protection against the hacking software FairUse4WM, which allows users to pirate content."
12:26.22Zeal"Earlier this week Sky suspended its film download service" nice of them to tell me.. no wonder it wouldn't work for me..
12:26.38Kirkburn|afkThat bit I quoted ... wtf?
12:26.41Zealtbh, i'm pissed off at the pirates
12:27.06Kirkburn|afkWhat's MS got to do with it?
12:27.26Zealbt customers get free downloadable content on their pc which can't be shared, but no time limits.. i mean wtf, how fairer do you want them to be..
12:27.42Zealthey use microsoft based drm
12:27.55Zealwhich has been circumvented yet again
12:32.59Kirkburn|afkJust spent a few mins looking up stuff on the net
12:33.02amrosee, this is why DRM is bad. The paying customers get fucked over the most
12:33.47Kirkburn|afkAye, there are some absolutely stupid DRM-type restrictions out there
12:35.15Zealamro. sky, are offering their tv customers, complete series events and such for download for free with drm. i think that's completely fair tbh.
12:35.32Kirkburn|afk"A recent Gallup poll reveals that Americans are much more likely to elect a black man or a woman president than a Mormon or an old man."
12:35.34Zeal*series, events
12:35.44amroyeah, but they suspended the service, rights?
12:35.45Kirkburn|afkNote that last bit "... an old man."
12:35.59Zealthe stuff you have should still be usuable afaik
12:36.25Zealit jsut means you can't access the service to get new content now
12:37.22amrostill, customers are inconvenienced
12:37.34amrowhile pirates can get what they want off bittorrent anyway
12:39.07amrothere are thousands of illegal copies of windows XP for example, and yet I wasn't able to install my legit copy of windows on the laptop it came bundled with =(
12:40.06Zealit's not drm's fault, it's pirates fault is what i'm saying
12:40.19Kirkburn|afkLol, Mac v PC circa 1996 -
12:40.37Zealthere are types of drm i'm completely opposed to, mainly because they have a time limit and require constant liscene checks.
12:44.54Kirkburn|afkY'know it's amazing how political Digg and such sites are. I just noticed someone who commented saying they wanted Obama to win the US election had his comment (and informative link) buried - evidently because others disagree with him. Yay for democracy :/
12:44.56Zealas i though. sky is using EasyNet, not bt.
12:45.06Kirkburn|afkEasyNet? Don't know them
12:45.19Zealneither did i until just now :P
12:47.18Zealso yeah.. same line, but everything after that is EasyNet, not BT.
12:49.05Zealprobably best i can't switch yet it seems :P
12:56.41amroZeal: the pirates aren't the ones stopping me from installing windows. in fact, i can get a free copy of windows from them. its the DRM's fault for being so restrictive
12:57.07Zealbut in this case amro, the drm was fairly restrictive
12:57.12Zealthere was no reason to do
12:57.15Zeal*do it
12:57.22Zealso yes, it's their fault
12:57.55Zealas to your xp, dunno whats going on there, but that shouldn't happen
12:58.35amroit wasn't the first time DRM bit me in the ass, but I made sure it was the last
12:58.36Zealcircumventing the drm in that case, was justified.
12:58.55amrocircumventing how?
12:59.23Zealirrelevent, and you implied you had
13:00.02amrorelevant because you implied i can and am allowed to circumvent it, and i avoided all this crap by switching to linux
13:00.21Zealmmm.. i live fairly close to me exchange, hehe.
13:00.40Zeali've not done it myself, so i can't say
13:00.59Zealbut plenty of people circumvent xp jsut to pirate it (which is not justified)
13:01.40AdysKirkburn|afk: !
13:02.03amroright, but if the DRM is too restrictive, its still not the pirate's fault. In fact, the pirate is largely unaffected. DRM mostly affects legit users because pirates will find other ways. DRM only means something will take longer to pirate.
13:02.04Zealjustified, i mean in my view, you legally should be allowed to circumvent a bug in drm to allow you to have acesses to what you've payed for. and further to add to that, what i view as immorally wrong drm.
13:02.54amroright but how would i do it in the situation I mentioned? installing an illegal copy is not a solution
13:03.07Zealit's the only solution
13:03.29amrono. i dont get updates and I don't get windows "genuine advantage"
13:03.36Zeali'm saying rolling out such drm and liscences should be illegal and give you a legal clause to do so.
13:03.42amroi paid for it, i can get the illegal one for free
13:03.55amroright, but they dont
13:04.07amrountil they do, DRM is evil
13:04.14Zealthats a case of bad drm
13:04.38Zealmy example was good drm, being circumvented for no justified reason, thus that was the pirates fault.
13:04.53Zealit's a service i get for free
13:04.59Zealso i'm not loosing out.
13:05.00amroFairUse4WM was not because of Sky, was it?
13:05.08Zealprobably not
13:05.17Zealbut if it's the same drm implementation
13:05.21Zealthen it's still wrong
13:05.54Zealtheres pirates with morals, and then theres pirates who jsut want everything for nothing..
13:06.09dok3DalQuestion, on all the Karazhan boss page ( for exemple), someone added "You can also visit this thread: for in depth strategies on this boss and others in Karazhan. It will be updated frequently with videos of the encounter from different perspectives such as tank and healer."
13:06.18amrozeal, you're wrong. for example where i live, there's no way to buy legit copies of software
13:06.20dok3DalIs this compliant with the wiki rules?
13:06.40Zealwtf amro
13:06.49Zealthat would be the former
13:07.01Zeali'm not wrong, you're just arguing a case i'm not even talking about
13:07.05dok3Dal<FrN~Zeal> no << this is for me?
13:07.14Kirkburn|afkdok3Dal, you talk! :D I just thought you disconnected and reconnected all day :P
13:07.18amroyeah im talking about something else now, about your last comment
13:07.22Kirkburn|afkIt should be a simple link under See Also
13:07.22ZealFrN~ ? :s and yes, dok3Dal, for you ;)
13:07.25amro"theres pirates who jsut want everything for nothing.."
13:07.40dok3Dalmy bouncer sucks since 2 -3 weeks :
13:07.48Zealwhich given what you just said, does not apply. those would be the former.
13:07.55dok3Daland yes I "can" talk :p
13:07.59Kirkburn|afkHey, it kept the channel going in the quiet times, dok3Dal ;)
13:08.16Zeallol Kirkburn|afk
13:08.30amrooh i see what you mean now, my bad. but FairUse4WM would still fall into this category for some people i think
13:08.32dok3DalZeal, FrN for FreeNode, prefix for this network on my bouncer
13:09.10ZealFairUse4WM, i haven't looked into. i suspect it was a general attack agaisnt all implementations of DRM, which i'm ooposed to.
13:09.20Zealah, kk dok3Dal, makes sense :P
13:09.44Zealbut hell, i want copyright laws to change
13:10.05Zealnot create new laws surrounding drm.
13:10.39amroZeal, if i remember correctly FU4WM has been around for at least 6 months (or an earlier incarnation) and the premise back then was to be able to use your videos on multiple computers
13:11.17Zealand how did they go about it amro?
13:11.28amroof course there are people who will use it maliciously, but that doesn't make the author bad
13:11.31amrogo about what?
13:11.51Zealit makes them irresponsable, so bad in my eyes.
13:12.00Zealgo about acting on that premise.
13:12.33amroim not sure what you mean
13:13.22Zealwell did they circumvent all implementations of drm, or only target certain ones?
13:15.56amroFU4WM was targetted at WMV. I don't know of any other video encryption algorithms widely used on PCs, but there are plenty of people pirating satellite feeds
13:17.45amrozeal, from what i understand, sky was providing digital versions of stuff you get on your TV through them, right?
13:17.47Zealtypical drm implementation i'd be ok with is, is one where i can purchase a life time liscence that can be transfered throughan activation.deactivation method on a per computer basis, and also have the ability to purcahse a fair use liscence under the agreement it will be used in accordance with fair use and publishable under my own drm implementation.
13:18.05Zealyes amro
13:18.32amroso then you could just record it with a VCR or something else. if someone wants to pirate those videos, they will
13:18.58amrohowever, im sure you have no intent of pirating, and yet you cant download them right now. DRM only hurts the good guys
13:19.33ZealDVR/PVR, yeah you could theoretically. though i've nevr looekd to see if whats saved on a DVR/PVR has drm itself.
13:19.43Zealthe pirates hurt me ;)
13:20.03ZealWMV DRM is sound for the most part, it's the implementation that isn't.
13:20.04amronope the DRM hurts you. DRM or not, pirates will still be here. But with DRM you have to pay the price.
13:20.31Zealnah, cos the drm is just in this case.
13:21.08Zeali'm happy with it, i don't mind it. i do mind people who do mind it :p
13:21.09amroi dont mind the DRM on the content they provide. however, this content could have been gained anyway, so if they remove the downloads that's not fair
13:21.42Zealif the content could have been gained anyways, there was no reason for the pirates to do it
13:21.47Zealthus, its the pirates fault.
13:21.53amroi never said providing the encrypted videos was bad- just the fact thet they removed them because of FairUse4WM
13:22.30amroZeal: the pirates will do it REGARDLESS of DRM. Meaning the DRM isn't even doing what its supposed to do (stop pirates) but still hurts legit customers.
13:22.30Zealit's the fact they couldn't, and actually shouldn't, that pissed me off.
13:22.52Zealit makes it harder amro, time is always the greatest test.
13:23.36amroharder, but still feasible, and pirates WILL do it. the only one that's hurt when all is said and done is the occasional legit user who doesn't do exactly what the DRM maker expects
13:23.45Zealit hinders them, but when they succed, it hurts me. fair imo, and i only blame them for even trying.
13:24.37Zealwel that's the fault of the drm implementation ammro, in which case if it's legit use, i think he should be able to.
13:25.12amroexactly. the DRM implementation hurts the legit user. Its not the attempt to protect digital property that's wrong, its the way they do it
13:25.48Zealthis world needs more basic laws... atm they're all far too specific, and ultimately that means more laws need to be made, and until they are, you get crap like WoW's ToU and gold selling, DRM, pirates etc..
13:26.19Zealamro, any implementation, when circumvented, is gunna hurt the user.
13:28.43Zealthat's why i blame those who try to circumvent it, even when there is no need to.
13:28.43amroright, but there will almost always be a need to. in your case it seems there wasn't, but WMV encryption was used elsewhere as well
13:28.43Zealit's not the encryption that was at fault though is what i'm saying.
13:28.43Zealit was the implementation of it.
13:29.52Zealonly benefit i see from is it, is proving that the encryption wasn't good enough to ever be put out.
13:30.26Zealsupposed to have people who check that.. obviously not well enough.
13:30.52amroZeal: the only unbreakable encryption algorithm would be impractical to use, and even though traditionally unbreakable, would be even easier to pirate because you have to provide the key along with the content
13:31.14Zealsomeone shall think of a way.
13:31.40Zealbut ultimately, i feel good implementation, means people never need to even attempt to break it.
13:32.42amrobut that is impossible. you have to provide the key to decrypt to the legit user, and if the legit user is malicious then you're screwed.
13:33.26amrothe only truly unbreakable encryption scheme is one time pad encryption, but only in the context of traditional communication. in this case it would still be breakable since you have to provide the key to the users
13:33.30Zealin your case for example, with xp, there is a way to contact microsft and get it resolved. no need to resort to circumventing it. only reason you would is because it's easier, and the only reason it'seasier, is because of illegitmate pirates have made it so.
13:33.58amrohahah i tried, they told me my license was pirated and to buy a new one. bastards
13:34.16amrolicense was invalid*
13:34.17Zealfair enough, their implementation clearly fails
13:34.27Zealcircumvent away imo :P
13:38.15ZealEasynet's rollout can actually support up to 20mbps
13:45.28*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub)
13:45.28*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ
13:59.30ZealKirkburn|afk, you downloading my vid? :P
13:59.37Zealhey Tekkub
14:00.05Kirkburn|afkLater, I shall
14:00.28Zealbtw dok3Dal, when i said no to you, i misread what you said.. sorry :x no idea on the rules for that
14:00.43MontaggZeal: What vid?
14:00.57Zeal <-- that vid Montagg
14:00.58Kirkburn|afkSaving it now
14:01.05Kirkburn|afkDamn you for putting spaces in it btw
14:01.26dok3DalZeal, according to others vandals reported, this seems to be not allowed
14:01.30Kirkburn|afkZeal, for that link, it was too long
14:01.41Kirkburn|afkI mean, it was essentially advertising
14:02.33Kirkburn|afkBasically, best option is to just fix it to be a short link under "See Also", and tell the "perpetrator" :)
14:02.42Zeali though it was valid, but should be in the external links section fo the article. other than that i don't mind unless we already have the strats.. in which case it serves no purpose
14:02.51Kirkburn|afkMeanwhile, I shall continue retaking Stalingrad
14:04.05dok3DalThe guy as changed something like 10 pages, I'm ok to silently fix one or two when I see a problem but not 10
14:06.38dok3DalAt least not whitout some kind of reporting
14:06.39Zealwell thats when you go to his talk page and say "oi! mr stragey link guy, no! these links are wrong, and they should be moved elsewhere"
14:06.44*** join/#wowwiki Tepetkhet (
14:06.59Zealhey Tepetkhet
14:07.53TepetkhetHalf the roads I take into work were either closed all the way or part of the way so they could do snow removal and cleanup.
14:08.38Kirkburn|afkZeal, I only get 90KB/s from your site
14:08.51Kirkburn|afkTepetkhet, wow
14:09.07TepetkhetAbout time, actually.
14:09.18Kirkburn|afkMade a snow angel?
14:09.19Zealthat's a bitch. well its probably in part its in america
14:09.29Zealbut still far too low
14:09.38Zeali shall have to have a chat with my host :p
14:10.08TepetkhetIt hasn't snowed this week.
14:10.20MontaggZeal: Did you write this music?
14:10.21TepetkhetBut the roads were still piled high with snow and ice.
14:10.31TepetkhetThe last couple days, anyway.
14:10.43Zealwrite it? no lol. its Within Temptation - Towards the End.
14:10.59Zealyou've downloaded it already? :o
14:11.07TepetkhetThere were a lot of places where the roads had narrowed to 1-lane already because of the ice/snow piled up on the sides of the road.
14:11.12MontaggAhh, okay. So you just laid it over the WoW trailer. Cool idea.
14:11.13Tepetkhetbut yeah
14:11.16TepetkhetI hate my commute.
14:11.23MontaggYeah, finished downloading.
14:11.41MontaggOh no, you recut this slightly. Cool.
14:11.58Zealwell not over it.. its wc3 and wow cinematics, chopped up, peiced back together to the music, transition effects added etc.
14:12.36MontaggNicely done. It flows well, considering it's from multiple sources.
14:12.55Zealthe longest peice of footage in it that isn't chopped up is probably the dwarf-nelf bit from the wow intro.
14:13.19MontaggI liked it.
14:13.24MontaggWhat do you use?
14:13.29Zealsony vegas
14:13.37MontaggInteresting, haven't heard of it.
14:13.39Zealthat's actually my first completed video from it, lol.
14:13.46MontaggSeems to do a lot of cool stuff, though.
14:13.57Zealnot used it since version 5 when i was doing cs vids i never finished :P
14:15.08MontaggI'm attempting to make my first WoW video, but ran into some roadblocks with the tests. Game won't render enough frames for me to get the look I want.
14:15.09Zealits a up and coming application in the pro NLE world
14:15.21Zeal*an up
14:15.58MontaggIt's certainly cheaper than your average video editing suite.
14:16.08MontaggI might actually consider that when I go legit. =c)
14:16.40Zeali've not dealth with game footage much
14:17.02MontaggAs far as my video, I'm trying to get a very smooth slow motion effect, and I've tried capturing at several different framerates and slowing it down, but it's never smooth enough. I need something like 120fps, but FRAPS won't do it.
14:17.05Zealwith cs, i used to very basic and nast method, outputting sequenced bitmaps ;p
14:17.17Zealoh i see..
14:17.18Kirkburn|afkCool, v cool
14:17.37Zealthat's a shame. cs had the ability to do that in demos : /
14:17.43Zealty Kirkburn|afk
14:17.57Kirkburn|afkGood timing, and you didn't resort to 'gimmicks'
14:18.04Zealany criticisms though, do i need to beat them out of you? lol
14:18.19MontaggI think it might be less FRAPS and more the game itself unable to render it, either on my computer or in general.
14:18.28Kirkburn|afkLol, well the picture did you a bit funny on the last frame - goes grey for some reason :P
14:18.32Kirkburn|afk*did go
14:18.51Zealyeah.. what you playing it back in? i don't get that
14:18.54MontaggZeal: The last sequence, from WC3, could use some rain sounds, some very quiet, low tones, or wind or something.
14:18.55Zealit should go black :S
14:19.11Zealyeah.. wmp11 did that to me too
14:19.17Zealthink it's a bug with that
14:19.31Kirkburn|afkAgreed with Montag, slight wind noises would help the last bit's impact
14:19.54Kirkburn|afkI'm amazed to you managed to compress the zip so much - what did you use?
14:19.59MontaggI noticed a gray frame with VLC, too, but it closes the window right at the last frame, so it didn't show up clearly.
14:20.09Zealhm.. well i'm not that experienced with it yet, but i'll attempt that with the next one.
14:20.09Kirkburn|afkWhere did that "to" come from?
14:20.19Kirkburn|afksigh, my typing skillz ftl
14:20.31Zealjsut the default winxp compressed folders
14:20.40Zealvideos tend to zip well from my experience
14:20.54Kirkburn|afkDivX and those types shouldn't
14:21.04Kirkburn|afkMPEG though, definately
14:21.14Zealwell it's all divx
14:21.23Kirkburn|afkIntriguing :)
14:21.43Kirkburn|afkTime for some CS:S
14:21.54Kirkburn|afkag_rats_v2 ;)
14:22.05Kirkburn|afkDo you know what ag_ stands for?
14:22.29Zealawfully gay ?
14:22.51Zealamazingly good? :S
14:23.03*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (
14:23.20Teomyri used to wonder what fy_ stands for :P
14:23.28TepetkhetEff yourself?
14:23.30Kirkburn|afkOh god, this server has sniper rifles on :/
14:23.38TepetkhetFushigi Yuugi?
14:27.09Zealwhat does fy stand for? i forget :S
14:30.58Zealmy only gripe with the video, is the lower quality ones screw up on the blizz presents text when it flashes to white, it leaves a few black lines on the screen until it fades back from white into the next clip : /
14:31.41Zealbut if people don't mind the size of the highq one, i probably won't bother with lowq
14:31.58Adysshould [[Category:Demon Hunters]] exist?
14:32.53Zeal[[Category:Class:Demon Hunter]] >_>
14:39.26Zealnot music videos..
14:39.28Zealoh noes
14:39.30Zeallike i care
14:40.00Zealgief fair use for non-comercial use...
14:42.29Zealis there a site like youtube that does allow music videos?
14:44.13Zealhaha "Note: If you upload Porn, your MySpace account will be deleted."
14:44.29Kirkburn|afkCapital P?
14:44.46equiraptorSo, did I get someone's myspace accouunt deleted?
14:44.54equiraptorThey used an image on my webserver as a background.
14:45.02equiraptorI switched the image for a rather nasty porn one.
14:45.19equiraptorAdmittedly, they hadn't *uploaded* it. But it was still displaying on their myspace page.
14:45.51TepetkhetOkay, great.
14:45.57TepetkhetThis is fantastic.
14:46.04TepetkhetAnd it's going to be my fault, I'm sure.
14:46.10equiraptorUh oh. :(
14:46.43TepetkhetI asked my boss for a copy of a contract template so I could try to draft a contract for a potential customer.
14:46.50TepetkhetAnd asked him to schedule an install.
14:46.59TepetkhetBoss said I should have the contract.
14:47.02TepetkhetI can't find it.
14:47.06TepetkhetI told him I couldn't find it.
14:47.12TepetkhetHe even looked with me.  Still no contract.
14:47.21TepetkhetYesterday, my boss was completely MIA.
14:47.35TepetkhetPotential customer came in today and said, "Uh, install?  Contract?"
14:48.12TepetkhetAnd I don't know what to tell him.
14:48.38TepetkhetSo it's going to be my fault he goes with somebody else because I didn't pull a contract and install time out of my backside.
14:50.40Zealoh you equiraptor, you just reminded me. someone else did that to me. but i wasn't as cruel, i was going to replace it with goaste
14:51.00equiraptorWell, I give people a warning before I replace it with something that bad.
14:51.11equiraptorI left a comment requesting they change the background.
14:51.17equiraptorThey replied with an insult.
14:51.29equiraptorSo I made it nasty-porn.
14:51.54equiraptorHad they not replied with the insult, I probably would have just made it something undesirable, but not so nasty.
14:52.28Zealah, i didn't even bother with a warning
14:52.39equiraptorSometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
14:52.52equiraptorDepends on how self-righteous I feel like being. :)
14:55.10Zealthere we go
14:55.25Zealstill not removed my images, and still using my myspace design, heh.
14:55.27AdysTekkub you there?
14:55.35*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (
14:55.40Zealthough if you're in ff, it probably looks like wank
14:56.04equiraptorI can't view myspace from work. :(
14:56.56equiraptorWork is lame.
14:57.04Tuqui-tuquiidd -.-
14:57.05equiraptorOne of these days, I'm going to set up a proxy.
14:57.09Tuqui-tuquithough I like it sometimes
14:57.29equiraptorThe trick will be not getting the proxy detected and blocked.
14:57.38equiraptorThough I may be able to just run it on 8080 or something.
14:57.46Tuqui-tuquitake a laptop and use wireless -.-
14:57.57equiraptorThis is their wireless. :-P
14:58.16equiraptorThere aren't any other wireless networks in range.
14:58.22Tuqui-tuquithen how about verizon wireless?
14:58.29equiraptorThat costs money.
14:58.36Tuqui-tuquibut its worth it :D
14:58.39equiraptorSetting up a proxy doesn't.
14:59.03equiraptorAnd, those ways to get wireless are slow as hell around here.
15:02.00Zeal <-- he has that all over his myspace page.
15:02.40equiraptorHeh. Nice.
15:02.50Zealhm.. that should have been a lowercase i on image.. woops, oh well :p
15:02.50Tuqui-tuquithe hotlink thinggie?
15:04.03Teomyra theif? :P
15:04.17MontaggHa! Apparently, in places where rendering is very good (i.e., not outside), you can get semi-decent slow motion effect if you capture at 60fps and treat it as a 30fps stream.
15:04.21Zealshush, lol
15:04.24MontaggNot that any of you care, but I'm excited. =c)
15:04.35Zeali care Montagg :(
15:04.39Zealand nice
15:04.45Zealthat should work as half speed.
15:04.58*** join/#wowwiki dotted (
15:05.16Zeallo dotted
15:05.24MontaggI've been testing whether to do that or to use Adobe Premiere's speed filter. I think they both do the same thing, except I'm working manually.
15:06.16MontaggUnfortunately, it's so hard to get true 60fps quality... I just don't receive information fast enough from the server, or the game won't do it, or my machine won't do it.
15:10.13dottedlo Zeal
15:10.15dottedsoundcard fails at life rebooting
15:11.04Zeal2 second lag, not bad
15:14.18Kirkburn|afkI'm now fighting in a kitchen :D
15:15.08Tuqui-tuquiI see...
15:15.25Kirkburn|afkThere's a 23 vs 23 map, but it's full
15:17.10*** join/#wowwiki dotted (
15:18.29Kirkburn|afkOmg, it's a zombie map!
15:19.03Kirkburn|afkOh this is AWESOME
15:21.45*** join/#wowwiki Royal (
15:27.20Kirkburn|afkZombie Mayhem ftw
15:28.38Kirkburn|afkCool Zeal
15:30.51Zealprobably won't last long on there
15:31.25Zealrate plx ;)
15:31.44*** join/#wowwiki peters-tx (
15:32.33*** part/#wowwiki avaia (
15:44.49dottedZeal gief highquality version :o
15:45.10Zealer.. i need up upload tbh, but kk
15:45.27Zeallet me jsut wait for the myspace upload to finish, lol
15:47.56MontaggYou have to wonder how they get the smoothness in some of these shots:
15:56.20Kirkburn|afkThey run low res, and have a powerful PC
15:57.06MontaggThe low-res surprises me, but I suppose that's true. For YouTube, the video only needs to be 640x480.
15:57.23MontaggI would think they'd want a high quality version.
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15:59.54Zealwell i can get a rather consistatn 60fps+ in org, while it's busy @ 1280x1024 (which would be fine for a high quality, even 720p, but not 1080p or anything like that). it's just a matter of waiting for everything to load and hope that nothing random that qould require alot of load again pops up :p
16:00.14Zealbut when you're filming in rather low traffic places like they did, that's not really an issue.
16:00.32MontaggI'm running on a laptop with a slower processor and an x1600, so I get around 20-30 in Org.
16:00.54MontaggI'ma do some research on their production, see what I can gather.
16:01.25Zeallol kk
16:02.17Zeali want an 10th generation ati card or higher before i even consider machinima
16:02.40Zealsimply because of a lack of aa on textures, only geometry.
16:03.19Zealer.. *11th
16:03.27Zealpreferablly 12th at this rate though.
16:04.15dottedisnt there an article on how to write serch functionality in lua somewhere?
16:05.13Zealno idea :s
16:05.21Zealif there isn't, there probably should be. heh
16:06.04dottedhaving some trouble figuring out how Atlas did it, mu knowledge of lua and programming in general is rather limited :p
16:07.20MontaggI love the fact that South Park decided to render all the in-game footage as in their WoW episode as if it had been filmed by a character.
16:07.28Montagg^ -as
16:07.50equiraptorI think that was my favorite south pack episode, ever.
16:07.56equiraptorThen again, I'm not a fan of south park. :)
16:08.26Zealwell blizzard did all the rendering iirc
16:08.26*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|gym (
16:08.34dottedmy favorite is the first episode of season 5, becuase its so dark and extrmely creepy :p
16:08.48Zealbut tbh, i hate that episode, thought it was crap.
16:09.23dottedZeal South Park had B,lizzard guys over to help them, like Tristan Pope ( etc)
16:10.01dottedbut the custom animation was done bu South Park guys
16:10.28verxionanyone here familiar with Shadow Labs?
16:10.32MontaggI'm reading an article on that right now.
16:10.51verxionthat is a good link imho
16:10.55verxionlet me read yours
16:12.16verxionwell I had expected yours to be about shadow labs, rofl
16:12.39verxionwell I ran it last night and we discovered you don't have to kill murmur to loot the 1st key fragment
16:12.44MontaggBlizzard gave South Park their maya files, which South Park animated for the closeups, but I *think* the rest is in-game footage, or at least as much as they could use.
16:12.45Zealdotted, is that actually confirmed. because i thought the "help" details was merely speculated
16:13.04dottedZeal what Montagg said :p
16:13.05Zealyeah, thats sort of what i thought Montagg
16:13.28MontaggSame, but I never had it confirmed.
16:14.05MontaggHa! Blizzard even gave them in-game accounts geared up to look like the models they wanted.
16:14.21dottedthey had a GM client too
16:14.36dottedthe randomly killed ppl in the BC Alpha
16:14.49dottedatleast them who was in the way of shooting :p
16:15.06MontaggI noticed that the Crafting Worlds videos uses some GM footage. Cheaters.
16:16.13MontaggOh shit! Their shooting sessions sound like LAN parties, with PCs on folding tables in the lobby.
16:17.35dotted[@Montagg]: I noticed that the Crafting Worlds videos uses some GM footage. Cheaters. <- where oO=
16:18.25MontaggWhere? There's a shot in the Converse ad that's a fly by. It could theoretically have been done by a well-placed flight path, but the camera stops arbitrarily.
16:18.47MontaggIt's either someone who's really, really talented with a mouse wheel to zoom in and out smoothly, or it's a GM client.
16:18.58Zeal"We met with several people from Blizzard on Thursday, the 7th of Sept. and it became obvious that they were extremely eager to make this happen, and seemed willing to do whatever they could to make sure it did." <-- ofc, that close to the BC launch they'd be eager for the publicity :p
16:19.08MontaggWoW Converse ad:
16:19.41dottedMontagg you could easily do that with a mousewheel
16:19.44MontaggZeal: Exactly. South Park wasn't stupid about their production schedule, either. =c)
16:19.57Montaggdotted: Check the footage. It's posible, but not easy. I've tried.
16:20.05dottedMontagg it wasnt planned to be WoW to begin with afaik
16:20.06MontaggThe footage is REALLY smooth.
16:20.47Montaggdotted: You're right. They wanted to do a general MMO, and they were inspired by a co-worker who played it. But at the same time, they knew it was most feasible because of the release of BC.
16:21.17dottedMontagg hah no that aint even done with a mouse - its noggenfogger :D
16:21.26dottedMontagg idd
16:21.41Zeallol, you're both and point things out to each other you both already read as if from different places.. :p
16:22.02dottedZeal yes ofc
16:22.38Zealif the scene Montagg is talking about is the one i'm thinking of, to me it looked simply like a char jumped off a nearby cliff with slowfall or something. it wasn't perfect, but it got a decent fly by angle.
16:22.47Zeal*both pointing
16:23.03MontaggZeal: That's true. It could've been slow fall.
16:23.26dottedit is
16:23.38MontaggAhh, you're right! I see the jumping action.
16:23.47MontaggGood. I feel better about Crafting Worlds now. =c)
16:26.48MontaggAha. I remember so many of these videos.
16:27.00MontaggThe first sex scene ever to show up in WoW machinema.
16:33.25Zealer? a wow movie or just a short sex scene?
16:33.33Zealif the latter, fairly sure i've seen it.
16:33.53Zealif the former, the latter was first :p
16:37.07Traehey gang... I want to be able to add a "pin point" to a map so I can build up say a circuit of places to go to on quests... is this doable?
16:37.17Traeis there an existing add-on for this?
16:37.41Zealer.. map notes, metamap.. probably some others
16:42.23dottedMetamap, Cartographer, CTmod have it too i think
16:42.43Traeoh poo
16:42.48Traeyou have to target the thing
16:43.09Traeit says: usage: Target something and type /nt
16:43.35TraeI want to add a point on the map of places I haven't been
16:44.32Zealdotted, any idea if the gather part of CT Map Mod (aka old school map notes + gatherer) actually works? mine hasn't since like 1.9 or something, yet they still have it there, and when i reported it, people said it still works :s
16:45.15Zealwhat mod you using trae, as most will do iwt from modified clicks (eg. control+left click) on the map :s
16:45.28Traeis what I use for main mod
16:45.36TraeI have that metanote installed
16:45.41Zealno, the mod you're using for the map
16:45.50Zealer.. lol
16:46.02Zealwell, that doesn't sound right
16:46.19Traeit sounds more of a "Hey here is some notes I can put on stuff I've visited"
16:46.24Traenot sure how that's useful, but..
16:46.25dottedZeal i dont know, o try to stay away from CT
16:46.29Zeali haven't used map notes a while (last i saw, in BC beta, it was being remade complete)
16:46.38Zeallol fiar enough
16:46.44Zeal*in a while
16:47.01TraeI just want to add a series of push-pins at certain locs
16:47.09Traeand build a quick circuit for quests
16:47.14Zeal17 mins until the highq version dotted ;)
16:47.39MontaggZeal: There's a version of Gatherer that works now, I believe.
16:48.09Zealyeah, map notes should let you just ctrl click the map and bring up a map note dialog to name it, and change the icon to certain types.
16:48.23TraeZeal, ok let me try again
16:48.27MontaggIt's on the author's site. I found it through one of the mod sites, though.
16:48.32dottedI kinda just use Cartographer for all notes/gathering stuff
16:48.34MontaggAnyway, I'm off to class. Later folks.
16:48.50dottedbut thats just becuase i'm an ace2 fanboi
16:48.51Zealnice Montagg, but that doesn't help me much, as i onyl wanted the basic version ct mod used, which doesn't work for me :p
16:49.16dottedbecuase it makes my wow less laggy
16:49.45Zealnever used cartographer, nevr even knew of it's existance..
16:50.50dottedits atlas, atlasloot (i think), metamap, gatherer + more random stuff ^^
16:51.42dottedscrolldown till you find cartogrpaher
16:52.06dottedohh nice plugin
16:52.10dottedCartographer_QuestObjectives r28551 Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:40:19 +0000 Remembers the locations of quest objectives. (Greg "Overload" Laabs)
16:52.12Traeinstaled cart
16:52.49Zealits a compilation, not an actualy competing addon? :s
16:53.21dottedZeal a map comilation maybe
16:53.27Zealthat is a nice plugin
16:54.26Zeali'm confused. it's a addon compilation, and addon package (a compilation be recoded to all work together) or a competing addon :S
16:54.35Zeal*, an addon
16:54.44Zeal*but recoded
16:55.00Traethis rox
16:55.06Traetrying to find pinpont thingy
16:55.27dottedTrae ctrl+right click?
16:55.45Traedoesn't seem to do anything
16:56.16dottedZeal its a compilation of addons coded from scratch in Ace2 related to the map
16:56.36dottedmore or less
16:56.39Traeodd seems a bit bugged
16:57.05Zeal*-compilation of addons *addon
16:57.14Zealjust checked up myself
16:57.17TraeI have ton at cursor
16:57.19Zealmay give i a go when i see
16:57.23Traetons of jumbled up text
16:57.45Traeat bottom of map
16:57.51Traewhere Cursor and player
16:57.51dottedZeal yeah but thats becuase i use it Load on demand, looks kinda like a compilation in the interface fold xD
16:57.56Traethere are double text lines
16:58.19dottedupload a screenshot
16:58.40Traekk sec
16:58.51Traehow do I take a ss
16:58.56Traejust print screen?
16:58.59Kirkburn|afkAAAH!!! AAAH!!! I missed Amazon's Wii stock AGAIN
16:59.23Traewehre does it save screenshots to?
16:59.29Kirkburn|afkArgh, argh argh
17:00.03*** join/#wowwiki Adys (
17:00.03Kirkburn|afkIt barely lasted any time, but still ...
17:00.07*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ
17:00.21Kirkburn|afkShows how much in demand Wiis are at least
17:00.35Hobinheim|gymadis, the man, the myth, the imitated
17:00.39Zealthe only gripe i have about ace is the addons it produces.. it's far too modular for the user. requires more reading up, knowing where to look, knowing what already exists to compliment each one and back it usefull to the end user.
17:00.41Shadowedmake up on eBay isn't so bad last I checked
17:00.51ShadowedZeall: yes!
17:00.55*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (
17:00.57Shadowedmark up even
17:01.15Zealmost of the time, as cartographer is, they simply come across as simple kits for addon development, rather than addons a user wants to use.
17:01.20dotted <- lol
17:01.21Kirkburn|afkActually Ace isn't that complicated if you use Standalones
17:01.36Kirkburn|afkAnd I totally disagree about Cartographer
17:02.03ShadowedMap manipulation is pretty annoying to do I hear
17:02.04dottedZeal problem solved
17:02.40Kirkburn|afkI concede it is confusing for the uninitiated though
17:02.49Zealthat relies on what dotted? tht the addon is registered the the ace site? :S
17:02.56dottedZeal what they do now is to have stuff made in 1 addon (plugins are still seperate) and then have a .bat file to make it Load on Demand
17:03.10Shadowederm thats not how it works
17:03.11dottedZeal ofc it isnt called Ace Updater for fun
17:03.30dottedShadowed not far off then
17:03.31Shadowedthe bat file is to move the folders from the one you downloaded to seperate one, the toc file is what makes it load on demand
17:03.47Zealyeah, it'd rather have and update for each addon.
17:03.52Zeal*an updater
17:03.58dottedyeah but the addon still works fine without doing it
17:04.12dottedZeal then you need another program
17:04.21Shadowedthere aren't any programs that support every addon
17:04.31Trae dotted
17:04.52ShadowedYou could make one that goes off of WoWI I suppose since they force you to use a different version number to upload
17:05.19Adysdid we get a software upgrade?
17:05.22Traevery bottom of the cart map
17:05.34ZealTrae, looks like you have competing addons running
17:05.46dottedZeal Shadowed is close to an all addons updater
17:05.48Zealsomething else is writing cords to the map frame.
17:06.33dottedTrae using titan panael?
17:06.36dottedor fubar?
17:06.41Traetitan panel
17:07.03Zeali really don't want an all addons updater, at least not one that functions like that
17:07.20dottedyeah try and see if you can disable that TitanCooardinates or whatever its called (or atleast the thing that makes coords apear on the map)
17:07.30dottedZeal then what?
17:07.47Traethat did it
17:07.54TraeZeal, thanks ;)
17:07.59Traetx guys bunches
17:08.02Zealif there was to be one, i want it to read a file in each addon's folder, which list's it's name, version and address to check for updates (preferably an xml file, when then contains a link to the the updated file)
17:08.17Zeal*which then
17:08.31Shadowedthat site is confusing
17:08.35Traeis there a really good quest log replacement?
17:08.38Traethe default one sucks
17:08.40dottedTrae np
17:08.50Zealnot rely on addon sites or built in definitions for addons, or put the work in the user's lap to define addons
17:09.04ShadowedZeal: The problem is this is unrealistic
17:09.06Zeali so badly miss quest assist..
17:09.15Zealit's not unrealistic shadowed
17:09.20dottedi use Fubar_QuestFu, but since you use Titan thats no good, but i used EQL3 at one pint that was rather good
17:09.20Adysthis guy registered the nick Content to Hover to cleanup vandalism
17:09.25Zealtheres many such programs that can do this already
17:09.27Shadowedsure it is
17:09.33ShadowedHow do you plan on finding those links?
17:09.41Zealbut they are no catered to wow or limited to reading wow's addon folder.
17:09.42Kirkburn|afkIf it was realistic, it would have already been done
17:09.51Traetx again
17:09.54Traetime for lunch!
17:09.59Kirkburn|afkWowAceUpdater will update any addons on the Ace site
17:10.02Zealshadowed, the links are provided by the author of the addon
17:10.05Kirkburn|afk(which is most Ace addons)
17:10.07ShadowedZeal I have to head out in like 4 minutes so i can't argue but
17:10.13Shadowed"not rely on addon sites or built in definitions for addons"
17:10.31Shadowedyou're contradiction yourself then
17:10.46Kirkburn|afkWell then make it clearer
17:10.51Kirkburn|afkBecause I agree with Shadowed
17:11.03Shadowedyou want something that doesn't require authors to flag stuff in the TOC, or require users to find all the links themselfs.
17:11.30Kirkburn|afkThere will never be standard across all addon sites, it's impossible to maintain
17:11.36ShadowedThis is realistic on a small scale of maybe 5-10 addons, but when you're talking about 50+ addons we have to search 3 different resource sites and the user has to pick which one matches it the closet
17:11.38Kirkburn|afk(and believe me, they've tried)
17:11.56ShadowedI don't think any of them would be happy with people searching for every addon on every site that quickly to find a link
17:12.06Kirkburn|afkNo revenue, for one
17:12.07Zealwtf? how is that not clear, i don't seen any contradiction what so ever. i'm baffaled. Shouldn't rely on downloading, getting definitions and checking updates from addons sites (curse, ace), and should not have built definition lists (fixed or editable by the user) in the application.
17:12.26Kirkburn|afkThen how the hell do you expect it to know what to download?
17:12.34Zeali never said any such thing about not requiring authors..
17:12.39Zeali actually said that is what i want
17:12.54ShadowedThere are a lot of different addons out that require authors to put stuff in the TOC, none of them are very popular or used
17:13.01Kirkburn|afkAh, you want all authors to adhere to a standard
17:13.11Shadowedwhich, will never happen on that kind of scale honestly
17:13.32Zealif they wish to use such an updater Kirkburn|afk, yes. it's benficial to them, and their users.
17:13.36Kirkburn|afkPeople use all sorts of different versioning schemes
17:13.49Kirkburn|afkNot to the addon sites though
17:13.54ZealKirkburn|afk, there doesn;t need to be a standard on the versioning
17:14.05Shadowedit's hard to compare versions at times
17:14.08Kirkburn|afkAgain, then, how do you expect it to know what to download?
17:14.16Shadowedwhat if somebody has 5.235b and 5.923a
17:14.25Zealand hell, if you wanted to make some wacked uot versioning, the addon to red an xml schema for it.
17:14.44Zeal*out *read an
17:14.46ShadowedZeal it simply is not possible in a way that doesn't require either the end-user or the author to do something special
17:14.51dottedShadowed just take the one dated to the newest date, dont have to ralte to the version
17:15.01ShadowedWhat about time zones?
17:15.06Kirkburn|afkWhat happens if someone else uploads your addon elsewhere?
17:15.07dotteddoesnt matter
17:15.09Shadowedtheres already people who have tried to make a global addon updater, and they';ve failed
17:15.10dotteduse UTC
17:15.16Shadowednot all the addon sites use UTC
17:15.17Kirkburn|afkWhat happens if someone uploads a modified version?
17:15.29Kirkburn|afkWhat happens if a mod is abandoned and picked up by someone else?
17:15.44dottedShadowed can be worked around within the updater
17:16.02Kirkburn|afkDates cannot be relied upon
17:16.03dottedKirkburn|afk the same as on the addon sites?
17:16.14Kirkburn|afkYes, but we're talking about a universal updater
17:16.23Kirkburn|afkManual updates can use common sense :P
17:16.25ShadowedAlright well I have to go, so have fun Kirkburn|afk
17:17.08Zealit requires the author, to insert a version number, a name, and address. then they themselves (on their own site, or hosted for them on an addon database site) provide 1 xml file, that lists the versions, and their file location. the application simply compares versions and notifies what needs updating. the onyl standard is the way in which they are written (which really is already limited and obvious enough in xml anyways).
17:17.11Kirkburn|afkAnyways, I'm not bothered - about 95% of my addons are Ace ;)
17:17.27dottedAce ftw
17:17.43dottedrather Ace2 ftw, had bad expierences with Ace1 :p
17:17.51dotted*have had
17:18.10Zealif you want to complicate matter, an optional xml schema could be read on a per author basis, explaining how to deal with what is the xml version and how to use it.
17:18.17Zealand viola. you're done.
17:18.43Kirkburn|afkAh, so you do need an author standard
17:18.49Zeali already use na application similar to this to update my cs 1.6 ui&script package
17:18.54Kirkburn|afkProblem there is, someone would have to maintain it :/
17:19.00Kirkburn|afk(and enforce it)
17:19.27Kirkburn|afkThat could be possible, but it's a case of organising
17:19.34Kirkburn|afkAnd with this community, that's *hard*
17:19.58Kirkburn|afk(getting the addon sites to talk properly is very difficult)
17:20.04ZealKirkburn|afk, it's not more a standard than lua and xml are. there are limitations and logical ways to write things. taking a page out of wowwiki's book. ad granfather standard in essence.
17:20.13Kirkburn|afk(especially since some people's livelihoods depend on it)
17:20.32Zealwtf is up with my typing..
17:20.51Zealanyways. it's up to the the addon database sites if they wish to support it
17:21.17Zealthey could do it their own way unique to them, aslong as the provide an xml schema.
17:21.35Zeal*unique way if they wanted, aslong
17:21.57Kirkburn|afkGoing back to an earlier point, though ... here we come across the other problem. This isn't beneficial to the addon sites.
17:22.11Zealotherwise, no communication, which means the author won't use their site as the addon's address, which means no issue.
17:22.17Kirkburn|afkIt's detrimental, in fact
17:22.32Zealin what way? ad revenue?
17:22.52Kirkburn|afkMajor sticking point :(
17:22.55Zealnever said they have to support it.
17:23.04Kirkburn|afk"it's up to the the addon database sites if they wish to support it"
17:23.17Kirkburn|afkIf they don't support it, it won't work
17:23.38Zealif i was to make this, i'd probably run my own database site so those who can't host thier addon themselves, can host it there, with the xml file created for them.
17:23.48Kirkburn|afkEven if 2/3 of them support it, that's a massive chunk of addons missing (which is the case with most updaters atm)
17:23.56dottedKirkburn|afk works without the support of the sites
17:24.06dottedexept for wowace
17:24.07Zealif they don't support it, the author pays the price
17:24.11Kirkburn|afkdotted, not officially, is my point
17:24.19Kirkburn|afkThere's no standard
17:24.21Zeali'd think any sane author would support it themselves when they could
17:24.31dottedyeah but the program still works
17:24.40Kirkburn|afkOh yes, I don't dispute that :)
17:24.58dottedi dont understand what the problem is then?
17:25.15Kirkburn|afkThat the standard Zeal wants isn't feasible
17:25.32Kirkburn|afkPlus WUU is not infallible, esp. without that standard
17:25.49Zealso even if the sites don't support it, aslong as authors do, it doesn't matter. and if enough authors support it, it undermines the sites for update use anyways. you'd only then go to the sites if you want to look for new addons or read/post comments.
17:26.00Zealwell it is feasible imo
17:26.05Zeali don;t see anything stopping it.
17:26.18dottedits utopia to make it happen and work good
17:26.25Zealand stop calling ti a standard >_>
17:26.27Kirkburn|afkThe community has been going nearly 3 years, it hasn't happened yet :P
17:26.47Kirkburn|afkSchema, standard, what's the difference?
17:27.24dottedin the end i dont mind, all my addons are ace2 anyways exept a few
17:28.00Zealas i always say Kirkburn|afk, most people are short sighted in my eyes ;) and i see evidence of it all around. most are not as anal or idealistic as me, heh.
17:28.38Kirkburn|afkWell, if people's income didn't depend on the visits addon sites get, then it would be possible. But they do.
17:29.08Kirkburn|afkI have 93 Ace2 addons!
17:30.04dottedi dont know how many ace2 addons i've got but i got 168 folders inside the \Interface\AddOns folder
17:30.16Kirkburn|afk123. Damn.
17:30.18Zealthe schema is optional. its a method rather than a standard. those who don't wish to use the default standard used in the method, can define their own but still use the same method. those who still aren't happy, (ie addon sites) need not bother to support it. it' the authors that make it work, not the addon sites.
17:31.08Kirkburn|afkYou need to spend some time with the addon communities :)
17:31.41Zeali could for example host the xml file myself, yet put the addon on the addon site and be sitting pretty.
17:32.18dottedstill its utopia
17:32.58Kirkburn|afkAmazon Wii stock - "Last seen in stock: 21/02/2007 15:20:02
17:32.58Kirkburn|afk". I was SITTING RIGHT HERE.
17:33.08Kirkburn|afkOh I hate you, invisible line break.
17:33.08Zealyou imply utopia is unattainable? i say it's unattainable because of people holding back progress for greed and personal gain ;)
17:33.19Zeallol k
17:33.42Kirkburn|afkDamn those other people with names beginning with K :P
17:33.44dottedZeal exactly
17:34.07Kirkburn|afkGreed and personal gain is having enough money to feed your family?
17:34.17Zeal"ClearFont recently got a "cleaner" version with no funny placements of files " lol Kirkburn|afk
17:34.36Kirkburn|afkPeople's livelihoods depend on the sites. The addon sites aren't hobbies.
17:34.51Zealgreed and personal gain is gaining something for yourself at the cost of others.
17:35.12Kirkburn|afkThen *working* is greed and personal gain.
17:35.34Zealpeople should find a better way to support their lively hood. i'd also liek to point out a flaw in your argument about lost revenue though..
17:35.53dottedlol? oO
17:36.39Zealmost of the update traffic will be coming from patch periods. during this time, all the sites go into low bandwidth mode because they can't feasiably support the traffic (and incure the bandwidth costs). i've not seen any site use ads when in this mode
17:37.09Zealso, no lost revenue, and infact, because it would take the load off them, they could switch back into normal mode, and have ads again, so it would increase it.
17:37.47Zealthe latter part only if it was widely adopted enough to take away that much load ofc.
17:37.52Kirkburn|afkVery much based on "if"s and "maybe"s, but yes, that is possible. Not certain, but possible.
17:37.54*** join/#wowwiki Gngsk_ (
17:38.32dottedZeal curse doesnt go into light mode afaik
17:38.43Zealit doesn't? used to :s
17:38.53Zealbut either way, it's slow as hell during that time
17:39.26Zealso the ads rarely even load. most people block the ads anywways, so they're still slowly loosing income.
17:39.56Zeal*some people
17:40.15Zealyeah.. i block all the cruse ads, heh.
17:40.49Zeal <-- dotted
17:41.29Zealbut i would say curse probably handles the best of all the sites under the traffic of a patch day.
17:41.41Zealbut it's still hardly usable.
17:42.27Zealaww montagg subscribed to me.
17:48.24*** join/#wowwiki amro_ (n=amro@
17:58.29Kirkburn|afk"Mechanical bosses, like the Fel Reaver, are now immune to the Gnomish Universal Remote."
17:59.08Adysvarghedin is a sick, sick, sick guy
17:59.14*** join/#wowwiki MechAngel (n=MechAnge@
17:59.38TepetkhetSomebody kited a fel reaver to Falcon Watch last night.
18:00.07*** join/#wowwiki MechAngel (n=MechAnge@
18:00.11TepetkhetIt annihilated half the guards like they were tissue.
18:00.24TepetkhetPounded them flat in one shot.
18:00.53MechAngelWell hello everyone!
18:00.56Adys<- counting varg's edits atm
18:01.09Adyssince about 10 mins and i havent finished opening all pages
18:01.31Adysand my browser is gonna crash because of too many tabs i can feel it
18:02.13Kirkburn|afkVery interesting article by a Hollywood scriptwriter regarding WoW -
18:02.33Kirkburn|afkAdys, lol
18:02.41Kirkburn|afkMy guess is getting near 30k? :P
18:02.56Adysdont make me depress more, im seriously gonna crash
18:03.05Adysevery page i open it freeze the comp for 15 seconds
18:03.32*** part/#wowwiki MechAngel (n=MechAnge@
18:05.35Adyshe has almost 37500 edits
18:12.01AdysIm tempted to add [[Category:Wiki Bots]] to his user page :P
18:13.02Adyshe has to be extremely precise 37406 edits
18:13.42amroalmost 2 edits per hour ever since wow was released
18:14.27amrobecause of a syntax error first result i got was 1000 :O
18:18.48BarbanusOn this page: the tooltips are all messed up .. if anyone wants to direct me on what needs to be fixed, I wouldn't mind doing the labour part :P
18:19.01AdysNow voidvectorbot is the only one in the 10000club lol
18:20.00Adysbarnabus: tbh id drop the tooltips on the faction pages
18:20.03Adystoo many to be shown
18:20.33Zealstupid wiki
18:20.58BarbanusAdys, hehe
18:21.08AdysI was serious :P
18:21.49dottedthx Zeal downloading :)
18:22.35dottedAdys how many edits do i have?
18:23.14BarbanusAdys, yea I know, I've never edited any wowwiki pages before .. so I'm willing to help .. but I don't want to just make some drastic changes to a page :)
18:23.29AdysIll do that barbanus dont worry
18:23.46Adysas soon as im done with the .. 25000 seal thing
18:25.01Zealme personally, i'd delete all those tooltips, replace it with a simple loot list. failing that, do what is doen with cenerion expedition
18:25.14dottedwoop 523 edits \o/
18:25.20dottedi'm imba :p
18:25.21TepetkhetFUCK FUCK FUCK
18:25.36Adyswhat adjective would one give to someone with 25000 edits, thinking you are soon going to need another similar adjective for the 50000 club?
18:25.40Adyshi Tepetkhet
18:25.43TepetkhetSorry.  <censors self>
18:25.48Zealfyi, the erros are because {{<quality>}} templates don't seem to have forgotted to put bits in no include tags
18:26.05dottedAdys Alsome have no life and is near immortal
18:26.17Zealbut consdier they were replaced with {{quality|<quality>}} it's irrelevent.
18:26.19dottedi fail at spelling :S
18:27.18BarbanusZeal, ahhhhh
18:27.30AdysIm just gonna use legendary member
18:27.45Adysand reserve mindless bot for 50000
18:27.51Barbanuslegendary, then artifact? :P
18:28.00dottedAdys then what for 100000?
18:28.13dottedand 1000000?
18:28.16dottedetc :p
18:28.25Barbanusdotted "member with no life at all"
18:28.27Adyschill dude, it took him 10 months to get to 50 000 edits, we got some time to think
18:28.39Adysomfg thats 5 000 edits a month
18:30.43dotted100.000 edit, official member og Wikiaholic Annomous?
18:30.52dottedok that one sucked
18:31.33Zealuse a mix and match of the old pvp ranks :P
18:31.39Zealwow aint using them anymore, lol
18:31.43Barbanus166 edits a day! 7 edits an hour! 1 edit every 8.5 mins!
18:34.37*** join/#wowwiki Whineon (
18:34.56Barbanusif your DB can't handle a query every 8.5 mins ... something is wrong :P
18:38.46*** join/#wowwiki Hobinheim|work (
18:39.40Zealurgh.. some people's concepts of beautiful sicken me..
18:40.46dottedBarbanus he is not the only ine to edit the wiki :p
18:55.30Fingo on then Adys, give us some stats on people's edits and stuff :) how many have you made?
18:55.40Adysugh if i knew
18:55.43Adysalmost 10k i think
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19:04.49*** join/#wowwiki bleetah (n=Bleeter@guifications/developer/bleeter)
19:13.22Findoes WW have an acronym page?
19:16.51Kirkburn|afkDare I ask you to look?
19:17.36Kirkburn|afk"compleat" :/
19:17.42Kirkburn|afkI noticed that earlier
19:18.01Kirkburn|afkWe have a Category:Acronyms
19:18.04FinI can go look, sure. I was *sort* of trying to start a conversation though...
19:18.06Zealaccording to that list, you asked if whirlwind has an acronym page ;)
19:18.27Kirkburn|afkIf there are any missing, do add them (as categorised redirects, normally)
19:18.34Zeali think the question is, why isn;t wowwiki on that list :P
19:19.05Kirkburn|afkWoWWiki itself is a portmanteau, not an acronym. I never say WW :P
19:19.38Zeali have no idea what that word means..
19:19.44Zealand i don't use ww either :p
19:19.59Kirkburn|afkTwo words fused together
19:20.08Kirkburn|afkLike many german words
19:20.09Zeali can guess that it means WoW is already an acronym.. ok not that then
19:20.39Kirkburn|afkWW makes me think of Weight Watchers or Wicked Weasel
19:20.44FinI just dislike typing wowwiki without capitalising it, but I *also* dislike having to capitalise that many letters alternately in a word (it's just fiddly to type)
19:20.49Kirkburn|afkUm, don't search for the second one if you're at work
19:21.23Finapologies for the disrespect to the WoWWiki name
19:21.31Finand is it WoWWiki or
19:21.44Kirkburn|afkFormer, I guess
19:22.28Kirkburn|afkHaving said that, all the other endings (.net, .eu, etc) are being cybersquatted
19:22.58Zealhehe, i stole one of my domains from a cybersqutter apparently
19:23.03Zealwasn't too happy
19:23.09Zealbut own fault for not renewing.
19:23.20Kirkburn|afkWhat happened?
19:23.38FinI think the technical term is "being cybersquit"
19:23.42Kirkburn|afkHmm, does show anything
19:23.43Zealguess they forgot, accused me oh ninjaing it basically
19:23.45Finpossibly cybersqut
19:23.50Finwait, that doesn't work
19:23.59Kirkburn|afk"Being cybersquit" sounds painful
19:24.10Finit's not very pleasant
19:24.23Zealwhen tbh, i just happened to want to register it within the same month they forgot :P
19:25.23Fin[migi:pgl]:~ $ whois
19:25.23FinNo data found
19:25.52Zealoh not again..
19:25.57Kirkburn|afkWe don't have to worry about being stolen for a loong while
19:26.05Kirkburn|afkIt appears to be registered until 2010
19:26.08Zealwhat is it with people editing the guild template..
19:26.18Kirkburn|afkI thought I locked it?!
19:26.27Finheh, yeah, I registered one of my domains up until 2012, quite a nice feeling
19:27.03Kirkburn|afkI wonder what I would get if I phoned the registered phone number
19:27.26Zeali like doing it on a 2 year basis
19:27.29Kirkburn|afkDid you just revert it?
19:27.42Kirkburn|afkKK, I'll wait a few mins then :P
19:27.44Zealwell reverting.. stopped at 33% of submit : /
19:28.13Kirkburn|afkThe .eu and .info addresses are registered to Germany
19:28.28Zealperhaps the german wiki owners? :S
19:28.49Kirkburn|afkNo, it's a different wiki
19:29.07Kirkburn|afkTake a look
19:29.27Kirkburn| is a german guild :/
19:29.32Zealits not even a wiki >_>
19:29.43Kirkburn|afkYes it is, a tikiwiki
19:30.08Kirkburn|afk(I'm just going by what it says, I've never heard of it other than on that site)
19:30.22Zeali've vaguely heard of it
19:30.30Zealand i was refering ot .eu not being a wiki :P
19:30.51Kirkburn|afkOh right
19:31.06Zealits a tikiwiki too
19:31.09Zealrofl fair enough
19:31.35Zealtikiwiki looks crap tbh. its like phpnuke of wiki software..
19:31.56Kirkburn|afkActually I think .eu /is/ a wiki, but not a 'normal' one
19:32.18Kirkburn|afkA freaky confusing one. The fact it's german may contribute to that. =)
19:32.29Zealyeah, its running tikiwiki. but it seems tikiwiki has "non-wiki" modes
19:32.40Zealindeed, language barrier ftl :P
19:36.28Teomyr" - The European World of Warcraft Wiki"
19:37.24Zeal*that sucks and is in german instead of the most likely candidates, english and french" ;)
19:37.25Teomyrthis is only a wiki in that they abuse their wiki as a CMS
19:37.36Zealyeah, that's what i thought
19:37.57Kirkburn|afkYeah, that's what I thought
19:38.09Kirkburn|afkOkay, I wasn't aiming to repeat you
19:38.44Kirkburn|afkBtw, for fun, take a look at the vandal list for March 2006
19:38.45Teomyrthe "real" german wiki looks promising, but it lacks users and writing style
19:39.09Kirkburn|afkThe Manual of Style still isn't guidelined ...
19:39.09Zealwhenever i edit something now, i keep looking for somewhere to put my edit summary before realizing most sites don't use one >_>;
19:39.45Kirkburn|afkZeal, and I always want to put ~~~~ at the end of a sentence
19:39.58Zealand i hope it never does btw Kirkburn|afk ;)
19:40.27Kirkburn|afkValid concerns only :)
19:41.22Kirkburn|afkHey, the german wiki link is broken
19:41.33Kirkburn|afkAnd it's been bought!?
19:42.30Teomyrseems so
19:42.50Teomyrwell, but i don't mind, as long as these sucky layered ads are gone ;)
19:43.26Kirkburn|afkFixed the link
19:43.53Kirkburn|afkThe front page is improved than last time I saw it. Previously it was a broken copy of the old(er) WoWWiki front page
19:44.18Kirkburn|afkI hate the colour scheme, tbh
19:44.32Kirkburn|afkNeeds toning down
19:45.50Zealemulating wow too much as well
19:45.55Zeali hate fan sites that do that..
19:46.51Teomyrpersonally, i think that wowhead has the best layout of all wow database sites
19:47.12dottedpity its uptime is dodgey
19:47.17Teomyrtheir usability is unmatched until now
19:47.21Kirkburn|afkI wonder, why doesn't Blizzard own the Warcraft websites
19:47.34dottedand most of the lamers stick to thottbot so thats good
19:47.54amroyes comments on wowhead are nice, especially with that contest they held
19:48.09Kirkburn|afkBlizz only own and .net
19:48.23Kirkburn|afkThe contest?
19:48.26Kirkburn|afkBeta keys?
19:49.28Teomyrthey had several contests. beta keys, collector's edition, widescreen display...
19:49.43Zealhm.. if wowhead wasn't ultimately fixed by pixel width, i'd agree on it's layout. but as it's not (and even at the default, theres too much wasted space imo), it's jsut as crap as any other
19:49.59Zealbut, atleast it's neat, tidy and easy on the eyes unlike others
19:50.00dottedand wowhead isnt connectable to gold seeling sites, also a big plus
19:50.20Zealtbh, i'd say wowhead, design wise, is only slightly above wowwiki.
19:50.23Barbanusthat you know of .. anyways :P
19:50.59Zealwe just need to get a decent article layout and the css fixed to beat it..
19:52.00Zeali do think wowwiki would benefit with having a banner liek the de one, move one fo the ad boxes up there.
19:52.47Zealactually here's a thought. Kirkburn|afk, stil don't have access to the css yet right?
19:53.17Kirkburn|afkIndeed not
19:53.39Teomyrdifferent topic: tooltips... i've got the extension working here, but we do need root access to install it
19:54.05Teomyrand a small patch for mediawiki to get the tooltips working with template variables
19:54.42Zealpatch? your own or mediawiki's?
19:55.25Zealif the former, would you mind explaining what it does and why it needs to be done? :p
19:55.45Kirkburn|afkI do think it would be better to have the ads over the top, yes
19:55.45Teomyractually, it is a patch by someone else to give parser extensions access to the template variables
19:56.17Kirkburn|afkLol, my phone is on Battery: 0%
19:56.29Kirkburn|afkOh wait, no.
19:56.33Kirkburn|afkIt's turned off.
19:56.59Kirkburn|afkIt spent its last energy telling me it had no battery
19:57.05Zeali see teomyr. any idea if it's been adressed in official patches and is it limited to specific versions of mediawiki?
19:57.52Teomyrdidn't check for it. it was a bug report and someone suggested this work-around
19:58.02Zealme nets is awfully slow, or all the sites i'm on are slow..
19:58.08Teomyrmaybe it was never intended to give parser extensions these "powers"
19:58.24Zealyeah, that's the only thing i'm worried about, security
19:58.37Zealwell that and limiting the wiki version
20:03.10Zealwell Kirkburn|afk, i was thinking of trying out redesigning the wiki.
20:03.27Kirkburn|afkYou would, wouldn't you ... :P
20:03.33Zeali should be able to emulate it all inside an sandbox article
20:03.44Zealofc, keep the same colour scheme and basic layout
20:04.19Zealbut add the banner, move ads, fix min and max widths, try out some graphics etc.
20:05.08TeomyrZeal, look:
20:05.14Zealand hell, even if it doesn't get used, give me experience i need for WoL
20:05.29Teomyrsee what i mean?
20:06.18Teomyrthe template variables are not substituted
20:06.38Zealer.. no, because i have no understanding of what's going on specifically. <tooltip trigger="{{{1}}}">{{{2}}}</tooltip>
20:06.43Zealstupid line break!
20:07.07Zealthat part, means nothing to me :p
20:07.10Kirkburn|afkBecause I love cross-posting:
20:07.11Kirkburn|afkOh this is AWESOME ... "In response to Tim Hardaways "I hate gays" comments, George Takei (Mr. Sulu) makes this public response to him."
20:07.23Teomyrthat page calls {{Tooltip|foo|bar}}
20:07.36TeomyrTemplate:Tooltip is <tooltip trigger="{{{1}}}">{{{2}}}</tooltip>
20:07.56Teomyrthat *should* result in <tooltip trigger="foo">bar</tooltip>
20:07.59Zealwhat does trigger="{{{1}}}" do exactly?
20:08.27Teomyrtrigger is the text that shows the tooltip on mouseover
20:08.56Zealnvm, reading source
20:09.27Zealthat like.. makes no sense to me :S
20:09.45Zealie, why it wouldn't get replaced to foo and bar before the parser even gets to it.
20:10.07Zealmy sky HD boxes is making bad noises..
20:11.15Zealhm.. actually, i guess {{{1}}} gets replaced on compiling the page. so the replacement doesn't occur until after a parser extension can get to it.
20:12.00Zealand once it enters the parser extention.. it's no longer considered a variable..
20:12.09Zealsomething stupid like that..
20:12.36Teomyri think it's because the parser-extension tags (like <imagelink> and <tooltip>) are considered a "parser-free zone" or something like that :D
20:13.18Teomyrthe parser passes them to the extensions and basically says: do what you want with it. the extension needs to do all substitutions by itself
20:13.25Teomyrwhich is... bad :o
20:17.36ZealTeomyr, question.. why can't you simply use {{tooltip:}} instead?
20:17.57Zealjust makes more sense to me, and the template has no reason to exist tbh.
20:18.03*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (
20:18.04Zeal*as the
20:18.17Teomyrthe template is just to illustrate this limitation ;)
20:18.21Zeali see
20:18.43Zealwhat implementation are you proposing then?
20:19.02Teomyri tried to use the {{tooltip:...}} syntax once
20:19.05Zealand does the limitation come into play with it?
20:19.19Teomyrbut i think that version doesn't allow raw html/javascript output, not sure
20:21.05Zealhm.. well i would suggest checking more on {{tooltip: }} as it'd be a more desirable implementation imo.
20:21.57Teomyri hope mediawiki agrees with me too :D
20:22.04Zealaye, lol
20:25.15Teomyrbut then i'd have to cut down on parameters :/
20:27.04Teomyraww, no chance
20:27.36Teomyrcan't insert javascript using these function hooks :(
20:28.14Teomyrit is escaped by mediawiki
20:28.26Kirkburn|afkI'm gonna watch some good old-fashioned Bean
20:31.26Zealoh? that's lame : /
20:31.44Zealto both tbh :p
20:32.18*** part/#wowwiki axxo (n=axxo@gentoo/developer/axxo)
20:37.36TeomyrReallocated Sector Count: 2156 FAIL
20:37.45Teomyrguess i should swap that drive soon
20:42.25*** join/#wowwiki Maddogz (
20:42.36*** part/#wowwiki Maddogz (
20:42.45*** join/#wowwiki Maddogz (
20:43.28Zealwell i'm gunna go watch tv (SGA ftw!), then take a shower. bbl
20:53.19Kirkburn|afkEven better -
21:01.10*** join/#wowwiki Shadowed (
21:19.21*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (
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22:17.42Kirkburn|afkApparently quest ids are not always regular across database sites
22:19.27Kirkburn|afkThe sheer bloody cheek of Angry ogre!!
22:19.46Kirkburn|afkTelling me I can't delete his comments from MY talk page.
22:22.40Kirkburn|afkHis move. Let's see what happens next in the wild ride :P
22:28.30zeali would have said the same thing in his position, but then i wouldn't be in his position. lol
22:32.11Fin"You can't just delete my comment for no reason" - "Oh yes I damn well can" - hehe, top
22:38.35Kirkburn|afkzeal, if he doesn't realise how fed up I am with him by now ... I don't know
22:38.56Shadoweddidn't you say you were going to ban him
22:39.15Kirkburn|afkNot in good concience
22:39.56Shadowedmake up rules
22:43.50bleetahfwiw, I refuse to believe that any race which allows you to kill cats is evil
22:44.13bleetah(anyone who's spent some time in Silvermoon City knows it ;-)
23:06.32winkilleroh. wow-eu just... vanished
23:06.41winkillerdisconnect. website not reachable
23:08.23zealif you mean or they are both working fine.
23:08.28winkillermaybe my provider.
23:08.47winkillersite seems to be working again
23:09.22winkillerah, ok again
23:16.57*** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=rawsonat@
23:17.13Sky2042i'm back, with the usual question that motivates me to get on
23:17.56Sky2042would it be a good idea to move to a page like [[Possible future races in WoW]]?
23:19.01Sky2042That way, we don't have to redo an entire article; we just have to edit out the older information in favor of newer... :/
23:20.05zealimo, yes
23:20.46Sky2042oh, nvm
23:20.59Sky2042i'm familiar with bbl... :X
23:27.14Bejittthe manual of style should apply to pretty much everything right?
23:27.43Bejitter, *pretty much all articles
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23:30.06Sky2042most of them
23:30.11Sky2042pretty sure its a guideline
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23:31.44Bejitt,prolly not a big deal, but and a lot of talent pages have a ==header== at their beginnings
23:32.31Bejitt"The lead should not be explicitly entitled == Introduction == or any equivalent header." -Style
23:32.55Sky2042you bring up a good point. you should prolly edit the boilerplate ;p
23:33.11Bejitti think i will
23:33.16Sky2042and all the others >_<
23:33.40Bejittwtb bot
23:37.08Bejittalso, are 61+ spells/abilities considered BC content? iirc you can see them w/out a BC account at the trainers
23:39.23Sky2042i doubt that i should answer that :x
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