irclog2html for #wowwiki on 20070215

00:42.50Zeallo all
00:43.30ZealKirkburn|afk, cool @ bbc stuff. If the world, or evne our own goverment was run like bbc news is, the world would be a much better place imo.
00:43.51Zealthose warcraft merchandise from jinx all look utter shite imo..
00:47.34Zealcool
00:47.49Zealscript seems to have improved a bit
00:47.52bleetahSBS News Australia craps all over any BBC News service I've seen
00:48.03Zealin what way?
00:49.12bleetahstyle, content, presentation. the lot, really. their charter is to serve the diverse cultures in the aussie community, so they actively go out of their way to find stories from around the worlds' foreign language services, etc.
00:49.32bleetahit was the one thing I truly missed when I was overseas
00:51.29bleetahhttp://www.worldnewsaustralia.com.au/
00:52.17bleetahof course, being such a small broadcaster they don't have as much broadcast time as the BBC, but news and current affairs should be about the quality of content, not the amount.
00:52.50bleetahafter 6 months around hotel rooms, I couldn't really tell much of a difference in production between BBC News 24 and CNN.. apart from the accents
00:53.06Zealwell it's the quality, and methods implace to improve the quality that i praise BBC for.
00:53.13Zealrofl
00:53.18ZealCNN is awful
00:53.20bleetahand the slightly more restarined British way of doing things.. buch largely it was just the same guff repeated ad infinitum
00:54.24Zealwith CNN, there's no such thing as world news.. it's laughable. and all the reports they do are highly biased and not properly researched.
00:54.53Zealthat goes for any large american news network.
00:55.24bleetahthe BBC are also known for not properly researching stuff, but I do agree their base standards are higher
00:55.32ZealBBC, why not always doing the best of jobs, they do try to remain unbiased, and do report on mostly world news.
00:55.42Zeal*while not
00:56.03bleetahit's no suprise that US networks are crap ;)
00:56.43Zealbut where i think BBC does things right, is they have the system in place, or criticizwe themselves, let people criticize them, and actually listen to their viewers as to ways of improving.
00:56.59Zeal*to criticize themselves
00:58.51Zeali like that they do have a larger, general public board that decides what stories make it to air, what stories should be reported on, what stories should be the headliners.
00:58.59bleetahthat ties back to the difference between public and commercial broadcasting 'how far can we go before we piss off our advertisers' vs 'how far can we go before we piss off our viewers'. Whilst the former has a correlation involving the latter, they're two distinct matters, really
00:59.17Zealaye
00:59.27bleetah*public -> the UK/Au sense, provided out of tax dollars, not 'public' -> homebrew
00:59.31ZealBBC doesn't have to worry about advertising :)
00:59.49bleetahwell, I'm sure they advertise their own DVDs, books, and the like, just like the ABC
00:59.55bleetah*ABC Australia
00:59.56Zealthat is a good point i didn't consider.
01:00.05Zealyeah, they do.
01:00.15bleetahwhich then leads to interesting scenarios like recently happened here because the ABC said such and such's book wouldn't be commercially viable
01:00.28Zealbut the nice thing about that, is it's contextual advertising, it is always relevent to what you're watching.
01:00.48bleetahthat the book was about one of australia's most controversial radio broadcasters who has direct telephone line to the PM, etc., and had hidden his private life a lot yet abused others and outed them...
01:01.13bleetahso, anyways, the ABC said 'not commercial', so they dropped the book. ANother publisher picked it up, and it was on the best-seller list at christmas time
01:01.24Zeal:S
01:01.29bleetahthere are lingering arguments that the decision to drop the book was political, and not commercial
01:02.10bleetahhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Jones_%28radio_broadcaster%29#Jonestown
01:02.43bleetah(fwiw, the journo who wrote the book is probably the most respected journo for investigating corruption and the like in the country, so it wasn't just written by a 'no-one')
01:03.22Zealfwiw?
01:03.32bleetahfor what it's worth
01:03.35Zealah
01:03.42Zealand yeah, bad move imo
01:04.19bleetahit's a good example of how even in public broadcasting journalism, things can get as ugly as commercial
01:05.50Zealanyways, while i think organizations should listen to viewers, i don't thin kthey should ever bow to user damands. most people are stupid and biased, should never bow to preasure from such people just to please them, when it goes against basic neutrality concepts your organization should be following. kinda why i'm pissed off about the mohamad cartoon stuff.
01:06.09Zealbritain recently showed how stupid most of us are, with the big brother racisim claims
01:08.00bleetahI hate to say it, but the English, to me at least when I was working in Europe, did appear to be the most racist bunch of folks I'd ever stumbled across. Sure, there were lots of real nice english people, but when i struck the racists, they were incredibly racist
01:08.31bleetahwas working in Marseille around 2000, or so... these english workers for Airbus staying in the hotel I was at, were defending the english fan's right to riot
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01:08.56bleetahwhat got me was they were working for a foreign firm... :/
01:09.37bleetahbut, as I say, I know a lot of english aren't like that... just I think the BB exposed what a lot of english people fear, that there is still a real deep seated racism going on over there, that like here in Aus, we don't really discuss
01:09.48Zealignorance breeds racist comments, but they must be taken into context. racist comments or insults should never be a criminal offense however, merely a moral one. everything should be open to crticism and satire, be it religion, race or political figures.
01:10.36bleetahdepends whether such comments incite people to commit illegal acts
01:10.45Zealno
01:10.57Zeali don't beleive in incite being criminal
01:11.01BarbanusWhat are you guys talking about? :P
01:11.08bleetahBarbanus: stuff :P
01:11.19Zealpeople will interpret and act on what they want. they have themselves to blame.
01:11.19BarbanusYou talking about the Canadian law?
01:11.26Zealnope.
01:11.36bleetahzeal: personally, I don't. but there's a lot of real stupid out there who'd believe the moon was made of green cheese if you told them
01:11.46Zealwe were talking about news channels, not it;s about racism and such :p
01:12.08bleetahand would then try and find a way to get themselves to the moon to try and sell the stuff
01:12.10Zealaye bleetah. i think those people should be punished, not the instigator.
01:12.28Zealeveryone is accountable for their own actions
01:13.47Zealif someone wants to preach terrorism, i can think they're a dick, i can criticize them, but i don't think they should be put in jail for it. the fact they are more than likely involved in terrorist acts and organization of them however is likely anyways.
01:14.06BarbanusZeal, ahh, I was just refering to the canadian law that states "It is now illegal to publicly incite hatred against people based on their colour, race, religion, ethnic origin, and sexual orientation."
01:14.18Barbanuswhich is basically what you are talking about :)
01:14.24Zealyeah, we've got that law here too now : /
01:14.39Zealonly one person been charged with it so far
01:15.20BarbanusI personally think its a good thing
01:15.33bleetahso, basically what you're saying, is that it was right for the Nazi's to incite Germans to do what they did during WW2, and it was the actions of the lower ranks who were at fault, and absolve the upper command?
01:15.39Zealoh no, a person at a public political event stood up and criticized the politician and incited terrorism _
01:15.55Zealno, because they organized
01:16.01MontaggI only like the Nazi's because they produced Roman Polanski.
01:16.08Zealtaking a action, and not taking an action is the difference.
01:16.38Barbanuswell in canadian law .. you cant be convicted if the statements are true
01:16.59bleetahI kinda appreciated the nazis for giving us a decent magnetic recording medium
01:17.02Zealbasically, people can beleive wtf they want, but until they do something that harms another, i don't think they should be punished for those beliefs.
01:17.30Zealwell what the guy said was true, but a biased point of view on it.
01:18.13bleetahif I do something that directly causes someone else to cause harm to another, I'm innocent?
01:18.22bleetahhah
01:18.31KarrionZeal: can't the very act of saying something be hurtful, though?
01:19.20Zealimo no. if you can't take criticism or a joke, even if it's intent was to harm, i don't feel that's something you should be punished for.
01:19.39Zealif they want to smack you in the face for saying it, fair enough :P
01:19.58bleetahif I say to Karrion: 'This is how you get the cash together to go meet zeal and kill him', and Karrion says 'ooh, I like that idea, never thought of that before', I'm not at all responsible?
01:20.44Zealbleetah, you can never directly control someones actions, their actions are their own, so no. if you do something to aid in their actions, then yes.
01:21.04Zealno, you're not bleetah :p
01:21.15bleetahI think you should really read 'Manufacturing Consent' ;)
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01:21.32bleetahit's pretty dang easy to get people to do stuff they wouldn't normally do
01:21.33Zealactually, i take that back you are
01:21.46Zealyou gave him the plans to kill me :p
01:21.50bleetahtake a look at the fake prisoner experiment done in the US by those psychologists
01:22.08bleetahturned normal well adjusted people into.. well.. not much better than animals in under what was it? 14 days?
01:22.13Zealunless it;s an article online bleetah, i won;t be reading it.
01:22.31Zeal*it's
01:22.35bleetahso, cut out all written word pre, what, 1980?
01:23.08Zealwell mind control isn't well research field bleetah, that would have to be case by case verdict until it is.
01:23.29Zeal*and brain washing
01:23.35bleetahwhich is why there are now laws regarding incitement. each one would have to be tested on it's merits
01:23.54bleetahwhereas before, without the laws, there was either no test or a blank charge of .. something elswe
01:24.00Zealnah, i don't see why people should be put into that process for nothing
01:24.07Karrionfair critisism or joke, sure... but what about pure racism? If I got up in public and started ranting about, say, blacks, or protestants, or wiki authors, it's freedom of speech; but if i then go slightly further and start saying that I think they should... be killed, or have their possessions confiscated, or whatever, that would cause those people real fear, which is a direct harm to their quality of life
01:24.08Zealit should be handled by existing laws
01:24.49Karrionit's a fine line, certainly
01:24.59Zealyou're charging inoccents under the name of something that is inoccent in order to charge them under an existing offense.
01:25.07Zealbackwards tbh and over zealous.
01:25.47bleetahhalf the problem is we have way more powerful tools of communications at our hands than even 15 years ago. the other half of the problem is blinkered lawmakers out to try and get anyone under the new laws (witness that Canadian guy who recently got found to not be a terrorist, etc.)
01:26.14ZealKarrion, if someone wants to live in fear of terrorism, that's their fault.
01:26.29Zeali'm zealous, not overly so ;)
01:27.09KarrionI kind of agree and kind of disagree with that
01:27.24Karrion(with "if someone wants to live in fear of terrorism, that's their fault" ;-)
01:27.43Zealsimply reporting said person, and letting the police check if they have been involved or plan to be involved in killing you or w/e is the proper coarse of action.
01:28.25bleetahwhilst I'd agree that a multple rape and torture victim may have issues dealing with men who aren't rapist or torturers, to solely place their mistrust of males at their own feet and not at that of the rapists and torturers, is illogical. if the person hadn't been raped in the first place.... :/
01:28.45KarrionIt's certainly possible to cause fear in another person, fear is not a rational things, it's an autonomic response
01:28.53bleetahand on that note, I gtg buy clothes for a wedding this weekend.. ttfn
01:29.02Zeali know, but i don't think someone should be punished for it.
01:29.14Zealttyl bleetah
01:29.23Karrionlater bleetah
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01:30.06Karrionif they're going out of their way to cause fear, I think they should be punished
01:30.18Karrionhell, that's what the original meaning of terrorism was
01:30.24Karrionbut on a smaller scale it
01:30.35Zealright now, i'm not scared of bleetah or you coming to kill me, but i could easily report a death threat so police could keep an eye on it and check if it was legitimate if i was so inclined ;)
01:30.42Karrion's also why death threats are illegal even if you don't carry though on it
01:31.00Zealyeah i don't think death threats should be illegal
01:31.12Zealmajority of them are idle anyways
01:31.24Barbanus... heh, I totally disagree with you
01:32.23Karrionyeah my point is that even on their own, without followthrough, they cause harm to the person threatened, to whit, their mental state
01:32.58Zeali would consider that a weak person to allow it effect them so severly
01:33.04BarbanusKarrion, agreed.
01:33.29Karrionyou've obviously never been in that kind of situation, then
01:33.48Zealdeath threat, not really. bullying perhaps.
01:34.05BarbanusZeal, if a 6'4" 220lb man approached a 100 lb lady in a subway, and said "I'm going to kill you" ... and you were that lady.... what would you do.
01:34.15Zealcall the police?
01:34.16BarbanusLaws are there to protect from extremes.
01:34.27BarbanusAnd that man should not be arrested?
01:34.35BarbanusI certainly think he should be
01:34.59BarbanusThe woman would be scared shitless ... especially if nothing was done because its "not illegal"
01:35.14Zealno, they should check up on the mans record and as precaution, a temporary restriction on his contact with her if suspected.
01:35.48Zealie, make him wait for the next train or something
01:35.56Zealand alert police at the destination.
01:39.09Zealif it helps, eventually, that guy's record would build up, to a point where he would become detained, and then for longer nad longer periods of time for each time.
01:40.04Zealnot because of what he did was wrong, but because it is the only way to deal with him. *thinks of angry ogre again*
01:40.27Barbanusrecord? its not illegal.
01:40.49Zealdoesn't have to be illegal to go on a record.
01:41.39KarrionI totally disagree that what he did (hypothetically) was not wrong
01:42.02KarrionI'm not saying he should go to jail for just that, but it's still wrong
01:43.20Zealtheres morally wrong, and criminally wrong
01:43.26Zealthe former, sure.
01:43.30Zealbut not the latter
01:43.57Zealbbc news :P
01:45.31Zealtheres only a few basic criminal things imo. murder, and theft.. that's about it.
01:45.40Karrionok, then I put it to you that something crosses the line into criminally wrong when it occasions harm, be that harm material, physical or mental/psychological
01:45.58Karrionit seems to be the psychological part we disagree about
01:46.17Zealyeah, i think the mental harm is not the sole fault of the perpetrator, therefore should not be criminal
01:46.39Karrionsee, I don't think "sole" fault is required
01:46.45Zeali do
01:47.38Zealthe severity of the harm can change based on the weaknesses of the victim, in no direct correlation to what the perpetrator did.
01:47.39Karrionso, if you left your door unlocked one day, and came home to find your TV missing, the theft wouldn't be criminal because you contributed a small part of the fault?
01:48.10Karrionlaw exists to protect the weak, as well as the strong
01:48.25Zealcorrect.
01:48.35Karrionin fact it could be argued that it _only_ exists to protect the weak, because the strong can take care of themselves
01:48.50BarbanusKarrion, it does
01:49.00BarbanusLaws are there to protect the extreme cases.
01:49.08Zealif you can't determine the severity of the action because of the victim, then it can't be an offense.
01:49.49Zealthough really, it can be determined with your theft analogy
01:49.53Zealso it can be.
01:50.14Zealso what i said was wrong >_>
01:50.51Karriongenerally it's the intent of the perpetrator that matters, not the effect on the victim
01:51.28Barbanusits also the "potential effect"
01:51.36Zealno
01:51.41Zealbecause that can;t be gauged
01:52.04Karrionit is, every day, in court rooms around the world
01:52.17Zealyeah, which is fucked up
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01:53.19Barbanusyelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre is a good example.
01:53.21Zeallets ask a handfull of people how they think this victim might have been effected.. yeah that's fair justic _
01:53.32Zeal*justice
01:53.44Barbanusthe effect doesnt matter ..... you are charged because of the potential effect you could of had.
01:54.05Zealthe potential effect can't be gauged any more than the real effect
01:54.29Zealdo you go to the extreme and say the victim could have been lead to suicide?
01:54.42Zealwtf kind of justice is that when the victim is standing right there?
01:55.49Zealit could have made them go on mass murdering spree because of what you did? or what's that, they didn't?! but they might have intended to! _
01:57.49Zealwtf@ at fandylic..
01:57.50Barbanusthe falsely shouting fire in a movie theatre is an example of that tho ... you can cause a riot where people COULD be seriously injured.
01:58.20Zealbecause of their own neglect and beleif in the person's good intentions?
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01:58.40Karrionnot necessarily their own neglect, also the neglect of others around them
01:59.09Karrionsomeone shouts fire!, I think, "yeah right", but 50 other people believe it and trample me...
01:59.10Zeal"oh no, fire? fuck everyone else, i don't care if i hurt them i want to live!"
01:59.31Zealyes. lets also charge that crowd because they intend to hurt others..
01:59.46Zeal*intended
01:59.47Karrionself-preservation is a normal human response
02:00.12Zealand that justifies harm and possible murder?
02:00.30Zealwell done, you just made an argument to release all murders..
02:00.56Karrionthe crowd had no intent to hurt others, but the person who yelled fire! (unless they had a genuine beliefe that there WAS a fire) did have an intent to cause a panic
02:01.24Karrionwell, self-defense IS a legal defense
02:01.27Zeali just proved they did have intent
02:01.33Zealnot desire, but they did have intent
02:01.45Zealyeah.. self-defense laws are retarded too
02:02.19Karrionhuh? If I'm being attacked, I'm not allowed to fight back to protect myself??
02:02.37Barbanusthere is a limit on self defense
02:02.38bleetahzeal: don't you wish you hadn't mentioned BB? ;) :p
02:02.43Barbanuswhen it turns into murder
02:02.56Barbanuswell a homicide of some soft
02:02.59Barbanussort*
02:03.12Barbanusmanslaughter probably
02:03.18AdysSlowwiki has a problem
02:03.21Adysmorning everyone
02:03.21ZealKarrion, atm, most self-defense laws can charge you for using excessive force to prevent death.
02:03.46BarbanusYou are allowed to protect yourself to the point of no longer being in harm
02:03.56Karrionyes, the idea is you're allowed to use necessary but not excessive force
02:03.58Barbanusanything above that, you can be criminally charged for.
02:04.10Zealsadly.. it's not
02:04.19Zealthe laws can still charge you over that
02:04.31Karrionwhere necessary is defined in terms of what you believe, and whether a reasonable person would believe differently
02:05.04Karrionalso, we should be careful to distinguish "charge" and "convict" ;-)
02:05.19BarbanusThere is cases where someone has been attacked in a car with a baseball bat, and ran the person over.
02:05.21Zealif someone has a gun pointed at me, i should have the right to use any force needed to prevent it. making the choice to kill the person to prevent you should not be punished for.
02:05.51Zealbecause that's equal force.
02:06.14Zealand no bleetah, i'm fine with these long talks
02:06.20BarbanusYes, but if you disarm them, and knock them to the ground
02:06.25Barbanusand then pick up the gun and shoot them
02:06.29Zeali learn new things i didn't consider, i get my toughts straight. i enjoy it.
02:06.30Barbanusthats not justified.
02:06.44Zealno it's not
02:06.57bleetahzeal: cool :)
02:07.03Karrionyes, and the jury would be asked to decide whether you could reasonably be expected to believe that the extent of force was necessary to avoid harm
02:07.16Zealbut if the person keeps trying to kill you, to the point you've had to beat them to a bloody pulp until they stop, you shouldn't be charged either
02:08.07Karrionagain, you should use "convict" there
02:08.25Zealany force to avoid death is just imo. the level of force you choose to attempt first should not be argued.
02:08.31Zealnah, charging
02:08.32BarbanusI really really doubt you would ever be convicted of that, in the way you have described.
02:08.41Karrionyou can be charged if the police/prosecutors think there is a reasonble liklihood of getting a conviction
02:08.49Zeali'm saying this stuff should never even be charged
02:09.06ZealBarbanus, people have
02:09.33Zealwasn't long ago someone in america did, why i still have this fresh in my mind :P
02:09.36Zealcos i discussed it then
02:10.24Zealiirc, got held up with a gun, he did the old palm to the base of nose trick, killed the guy instantly. convicted of murder
02:11.44Karrionwell, that's exactly the kind of thing that a jury needs to be asked to decide, so it has to be charged
02:11.57Karrionwas the jury correct in that instance? I can't answer that
02:12.25BarbanusI bet you the procecution proved that he was totally capable of disarming him..... and in that case, its excessive force.... for example a high level blackbelt ninja :P
02:12.42Zealiirc, he was barbanus
02:12.53Zealwhich is what further pissed me off
02:13.22Karrionit could also be excessive if the guy chose to kill, deliberately, when simply giving the money would have been sufficient defense
02:13.35BarbanusKarrion, yes.
02:13.41Karrionin other words, killing is excessive if you're concerned about your cash, not your life ;-)
02:14.01Karrionbut I'm not familiar with the case, so I can't say what happened
02:14.19Zealhe used equal force, i think he was justified, should never have been even charged. they claimed because his hands could be considered a deadly weapon, it was considered murder. which is ridiculous, because he was defending from a deadly weapon.
02:14.21Karrionlike I say, it has to be charged so the court can decide
02:15.03Zealwell as you say, the laws are there for the weak
02:15.14Zealsadly, it also means they punish the strong..
02:17.04Karrionanyway, need food, back later
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02:18.26bleetahin any legal system, there will be innocents found guilty, and guilties found innocent. it's up to the government to act upon the decisions of juries to modify the laws as the community see fit. 'i'd rather have a guilty man walk free than an innocent put in gaol', and that stuff.
02:19.04bleetahif the law isn't changed due to what appears to be a stupid decision by a jury, it's not the fault of the law itself, rather that of the community who allows the government to continue on without changing it
02:19.43bleetahand if it's a stupid law in the first place, it's the community's fault - not that of the law in of itself
02:21.22bleetahWitness the growing australian reaction to the continued detention of our remaining national in Guantanamo. 5 years without being charged? Someone's created some real stupid laws.
02:25.54Zealwell bleetah, this is why i speak up when and where i can
02:26.53Zeala world where inoccents are detained and charged under laws to catch the guilty, i'm not happy
02:27.25Zealblanket laws are never good, as they invade into people's personal lives.
02:28.46Karrion(back)
02:29.00Karrionoh god, don't get me started on the Hicks fiasco
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02:29.21Karrionand aren't laws by their very nature blanket?
02:30.16bleetahKarrion: I won't let you get started, as I feel you'd agree with my statement 'fiasco doesn't even begin... and I seriously wonder about the others detained there, too'
02:33.18Karrionyeah... even if he _is_ guilty of whatever-they-are-planning-to-charge-him-with-sometime-in-the-next-five-years...
02:35.05Zealmost are, but i don;t think it's the nature of laws, and nor should it be.
02:35.13Zeal*but i don't
02:35.53bleetahmost are what?
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02:40.03Zealblanket
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02:42.32bleetahah, good. it wasn't 'most are' in relation to what I suspected you might've been saying (ie, 'most in guantanamo are guilty') as I'd then descend into a tirade against you asking for the evidence ;)
02:42.52bleetahas I hear the US Ambassador to Australia is receiving this exact treatment from our media today
02:43.19Zealrofl
02:44.03bleetahthe dickhead admitted yesterday he hasn't read the security treaty between Aus/NZ/US
02:44.03bleetahaltohugh, think I may have mentioned that earlier
02:44.03ZealO_o
02:44.14Zealif you want to, next i can bitch about how awful the eu is
02:44.17Zeal:p
02:44.58Zealbtw, back to what i said earlier. what basic forms of criminal acts can you think of?
02:45.01Zeali only got two
02:45.04bleetahpersonally, I think it's done good for Europe. I mean to say, at least you haven't had a continent wide war for a few years ;)
02:45.13Zealhaha
02:45.33Zealmost people here would beg to differ, especially in the uk
02:45.50Zealonyl things we've appreciated from it is trade agreements, which we could have done from outside it.
02:46.03Zealand with alot less red tape
02:46.11Zealand invasion into our own laws
02:46.37Zealwe have better trade agreements with america than we do with europe..
02:47.30Zealwowwiki hath ein problem
02:47.52Zeal*einen problemo heh
02:48.06bleetahit can't be an invasion into your own laws, as you guys legally signed up to the Union. If you'd been invaded and had the laws forced upon you, different matter :-P
02:48.09Zealits fun to mess with languages and make up words.
02:48.19bleetahie, it's the community's fault
02:48.46Zealbasically, the laws are decided within the eu, and people of the uk have no say.
02:48.59Zealwe are forced to take on the laws of the eu
02:49.06Zealeven if the uk choose to vote against it.
02:49.25Zealevne if the uk people say they don't want it.
02:49.50Zealbecause both leading parties in the country thought they could change the eu from within
02:49.53Zealwhich they can't
02:51.09Zealthe one in power is divided in what they want to do now, the other wants to stay in and keep trying, and the smaller parties want to leave.
02:51.40AdysEditing is becoming a real PITA with this slowdown and permanent errors
02:51.57Zealand yet we've still got another er.. 4 years? until we can remove them : /
02:52.08Zealaye adys
02:52.42Zealadys, hows politics in france?
02:52.45Zeal:p
02:52.48Adyslol
02:53.00AdysI dont care enough about my country to follow its political problems tbh
02:53.06Zeallol kk
02:53.42Zeali have an opinion on pratically everything as you might have gussed. so its good to stay in the know
02:53.53Zeal:p
02:54.16Adyslol
02:54.35Zealfew things i'm undeicded on, marrage and laws surrounding it was one of them a few months ago.
02:54.53Zealbut then my mum got remarried and it changed my opinion because i learnt a few things.
02:55.18Zeal*marriage
02:57.17AdysI will have a proposal to vote on in a bit
02:57.32AdysIn order to remove the Thottbot link from elinksmob and elinksitem
02:58.08Adyselinks should only ever have one argument, the ID of the mob, quest, set, spell, item or whatever
02:58.21Adysand thottbot doesn't follow the ID rule for these two
02:58.36AdysVoidvector where are you..
02:59.07KarrionAdys: that'll be an interesting vote
02:59.22AdysIm not actually against thottbot at all
02:59.43Adysits just that its getting annoying to have to visit two different websites for items and search through alot of shit
03:00.01Adysinstead of just going to one clean website and have the link for whichever one follow the rule
03:00.42Karrionabsolutely, philosophically and technically, the thott id doesn't belong
03:01.03Karrionyou're going to get people bitching though ;-)
03:01.39AdysI dont care, I want a stable and clean wiki and we are getting further from it every day :/
03:01.53Zeali don't like thottbot, but i'll hold my bias back and vote based on the issue at hand
03:02.27Adysyay :p
03:02.27Adyslol
03:02.41Zealin which, the outcome is still the same. thottbot doesn't follow the rules, and creates more work for users. i'd vote to remove it, but i don't really care if it does.
03:02.59Adystest
03:02.59Zeal*does get removed
03:03.17AdysMeh
03:03.26bleetahzeal: personally, I think the British reaction to 'externally' imposed laws is a bit rich. At least the British had the initial choice to sign up to the EU. Many former British 'colonies' had laws imposed on them externally for many many years. Hell, Australia didn't get full independence from UK judiciary until sometime in the 1980's. Many other former colonies weren't so lucky with a phased withdrawal, they were practically abandoned to
03:04.32Zealbleetah, this is a new generation, and i hoenstly doubt it was the public who wanted that, simply the politcal interests of the goverment.
03:04.36bleetahzeal: I suspect some of this issue you describe is because the British have no recent history of having external laws placed upon them, and as a culture they have lost the method of dealing with that. From what I've seen, there are similarities with the way the EU works with it's member states, to that of the Australian Commonwealth and it's member states, yet we don't have quite so many people bemoaning federalism and requesting it's des
03:04.43Adysomfg
03:06.45Zealif i had my way, Australia would still be part of the british empire. but obviously, that wasn't the case. they should have their independance immediately, and i'm fairly confident the public today would agree.
03:07.47Zealbleeteh, the point is, democracy is slow and flawed. the public want out of the eu, but it won;t be happening anytime soon
03:08.02Zealwe went into it, with promises that couldn't be kept.
03:08.32Zeali don't beleive in such organizations needing to exist
03:09.15Zealmerely one of treaties and alliances need be formed. not overuling body to a nation's goverment.
03:09.19Zeal*off
03:09.25Zeal*no
03:12.23bleetahzeal: could we agree that basically it boils down to the majority of people being stupid and will sign on for any old shit if the marketing's done right ;)
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03:12.36Zeal*throws
03:12.47Zealyes bleetah
03:12.49Zeali didn't vote
03:12.54Zealso, meh, lol
03:13.09Zealthey were all pro-eu, just some more than others
03:13.19bleetahoh, well you've voided your right to complain about the laws then :-P
03:13.19Zealso my vote would have been worthless.
03:14.05bleetahs/the/any/
03:15.07bleetahbut that's from someone in a country were technically voting is compulsory, practically only attendance at a place of polling (or making arrangements if you can't attend) is required
03:15.24bleetahso you gotta take it with a pinch of salt ;)
03:21.42Zeallol
03:22.24Zeali'm back to my thoughts on thinking democracy should be replaced with a system like that of BBC News ;)
03:22.40bleetahnah
03:22.40Zealhonestly, its how i think the wiki should be run too.
03:23.13bleetahI'd make a great benevolent dictator.. you want me! I know! you don't have to admit it in public, tho, 'coz that's sedition and treason ;-)
03:23.20Zeali have no faith what so ever in the voting on wowwiki.
03:23.31Zealrofl
03:23.57bleetahtbh, QE2 is an illegitimate queen
03:24.12bleetahthere's some farmer in outback NSW who's got more claim to the throne :-p
03:24.12Zeala dictator that is open to criticism and can admit when he does wrong and listens to his people.. gief
03:24.40Zealtheres several thousand people with a claim to the throne
03:24.46Zealbut none more than her
03:25.13Zealroyal families should go back to inter-breading. end of issue ;)
03:25.15bleetahhmm, I seem to recall a royal historian agreeing with his research, and there being a doco about it... and all.
03:25.31Zealmeh
03:25.40bleetahif I could only remember more than the headline 'King Bruce', I'd be laughing :p
03:25.41Zealeither way, shes more german than english :P
03:25.49bleetahprecisely ;)
03:27.41bleetahbtw, I'm of the firm belief that Australia is a Repulican-Monarchy.. We voted on what type of head of state we wanted, and chose Monarchy.
03:28.08Zealeveryone except the english are facinated by our royal family. we really don't give a crap and would rather see them gone. they're just like annoying celebs for us..
03:29.01ZealQE2 is like this cute little old women we tolerate for amusement.
03:29.07Zealrofl
03:29.15bleetahas head of state, who'd you prefer? a reliably crazy person (ie, you know they're mad, and can regularly deal with it), or every 8 years vote for a different mad person who actually has some real power?
03:30.00bleetahas we know, the vast number of politicians are liars and cheats. I choose the relative safety of a monarchy if by name only
03:30.10Zealthe latter, though increase it to 10 years and be prepared for anything from protesting to civil war.
03:33.31bleetahzeal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Abney-Hastings%2C_14th_Earl_of_Loudoun
03:35.22bleetahthe funny thing about him is he's a republican and seeks no claim
03:35.36bleetahie, only interested in the historical record
03:36.21Zealcool
03:37.07Adyswiki down?
03:37.20Adysnm
03:38.48Adysslooow
03:38.57Adysah well :(
03:41.39Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Templates/Elinks_Templates_Standardization
03:41.41Adysgo vote =P
03:42.03bleetah'vote early, vote often'... just which way?
03:43.39Karriongah 3 options, we need a preferential vote :-/
03:49.56Zealhm..
03:50.10Zealadys, what benefit does option 2 have over existing?
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03:50.21Adysthottbot being optional argument
03:50.33Adysatm since its the first argument its not really optionnal
03:51.05Zealwell, if the templates aren't conditional then sure. if they are, it is optional, though should be reversed for usablity.
03:51.17Zealbut either way
03:51.29Zealit means the templates need a conditional template
03:51.47Zealso having it as {{{2}}} or {{{tb}}} makes no difference
03:51.59KarrionI like option 2, allows thottbot (or any other nonstandard one that comes along), but doesn't require it
03:52.22kindergiphttp://www.pieragostini.com/ian/fun/wow/WoWStressTestWhoReport.htm
03:52.41Karrionhaving it named means if another one comes along you can include it without necessarily needing include thott as well
03:53.18Zealtrue
03:54.22Zealrofl at alliance races..
03:54.45Zealthat's pretty cool
03:55.00Zealif only that wow stats site actually presnted the info better like that.
03:55.04Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Wow_Vashj.jpg oO
03:55.14AdysHow the hell did he get there
03:55.20Adyscant be datamined and i doubt its a pvs
03:55.29ZealD&T
03:55.32Zealthey did her
03:55.39AdysShit I suck
03:55.47AdysI didnt even see the dnt logo.. :/
03:55.52Zeali still can't find her model : /
03:55.55Zeallol
03:56.36Zeali'm rather undeicded tbh adys
03:56.59Adysmm?
03:58.12Zealwell i feel it should be more one way or the other. it's nice to have the option, but if thotbot aren't going to play by the rules, i think they should be removed period.
03:58.27Zealotherwise its just inconsistant
03:58.35AdysI know, I feel that too
03:58.44AdysI left the option because its not everyones opinion ;)
03:58.55Adysyoull notice I voted for removing thottbot completly :P
03:59.03Adysand if they really wanna add it they can do that manually
03:59.30Zealyeah, but you added the bit on the end
03:59.44Zeali would have left that in option 2
04:00.06Adysdont think many ppl will vote 3
04:00.10Zealcos otherwise, option 1 is just option 2, but making things harder.
04:00.10Adysmaybe the thottbot addicts
04:00.29Zealwhich is against the purpose of the change
04:00.44KarrionThere should be an option 4: put "hunter lewt lolz" on everything and cut out the middleman
04:00.51Zeallol
04:00.58bleetahtotally
04:02.58Zeal"If the author really wants to add Thottbot's ID, he can add the complete URL manually just under the template's position in the article." if it was tha't but add soemthing like "but is highly discouraged" or instead just say "Thottbot links should not be added for items and mobs" i'd go with 1
04:03.07Zeal*that
04:03.31Adyswe are a neutral wiki, remember
04:03.36Zeali know
04:03.56AdysWe should have no preference for an external link over another. What we are doing now is kinda against the neutrality of the wiki itself
04:04.02Adysbut its to make editing easier
04:04.09Zealbut wer'e also moving to contain this info outselves, so removing absoleete links, or those that are not accurate is sensible.
04:04.10Adyssince its really a pain
04:04.20AdysYes
04:04.43Karrionthat's why my first preference is #2, it avoids any of the philosophy and just makes it a technical change
04:04.58Zealdoes thottbot display the correct item and mob ids anywhere?
04:05.07AdysNope
04:05.17Zealthen i feel that's grounds for removal tbh.
04:05.30AdysThen, vote 1 ;)
04:05.40Adysits a vote and we will go with the majority whatsoever
04:05.46Zealbut 1 doesn't remove thottbot was my point ;)
04:05.58Adysit does
04:06.15Adystrust me, people wont go and add thottbot links manually unless theres something special there
04:06.15Zealremoves it from the temaplte, i mean from item and mob articles.
04:06.30Adysthat we are not gonna do that
04:06.31Zealyou'd think :P
04:06.47Adysbecause it goes against the neutrality to "ban" a site altogether
04:06.50Zeali'm sure there are people who won't
04:07.01Adysjust look at it this way zeal
04:07.09Zealas i said, an outright ruling against it isn't needed, but to add it;s discouraged i'd like to see.
04:07.17Adyswhen the vote is over we will run a bot to change elinksitem params
04:07.27Adysthats how many pages
04:07.33Adyslike 2-3 thousands
04:07.47Adyscounting quest items n stuff
04:07.55Adysa few more with mobs
04:08.07Adyshow many ppl are gonna add thottbot manually to these?
04:08.16Zealwell yeah, that will drop all existing, just suggesting to say it's discouraged unless there is good reason is an idea i'd like to see.
04:08.32AdysGo put it in comments :)
04:08.35AdysI cant speak for others
04:09.02Karrionmeh, anyone willing to edit it in, will claim their reason is "good"
04:09.03Zealmore information you give to users, the better an informed choice they can make. simply not stating that, when you've said yourself, its what you mean, doesn't help people to know what to do.
04:11.47Adyson the end people will see that wowhead is the most accurate database of them all and will use this one instead of the two others
04:11.53Adysthey just need to know it exists
04:14.07Zealdone
04:17.02Zealwell it's not just that wowhead has the most accurate database (your words, not my claim :P), it's that it presents the information better, has a faster site, and presents the information more authenticly.
04:17.14Adyshttp://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=142984371&sid=1 hmm
04:17.26Adysand aye zeal
04:17.41AdysWell at least on wowhead lockboxes are OPENED
04:17.43Adysnot disenchanted
04:17.45Zeali cba to read. i have no concept of rogue gameplay beyond lvl 20 :P
04:17.55Zealwtf?
04:17.56Zeallol
04:18.07Zeallockboxes are right click to open iirc
04:18.10Adysyou know what i mean :P
04:18.22Adysyea and on thottbot they are dissed into morrowgrain
04:18.29ZealO_o
04:18.32Zeallol never seen that
04:18.52Zeali followed from wowhead's example for it
04:19.25Adyshttp://www.thottbot.com/?i=5526 ;)
04:19.29Zealbtw, did you ever resolve the item effect spell/itemspell issue?
04:19.45Adysnope
04:19.53AdysI dont really have that much experience into templates
04:20.01AdysI just design them, I dont program them
04:20.02Zealcos i still maintain all the databases have ti wrong, and even if they don't, they are not linking to the correct spell.
04:20.08Zealnah, not about templates
04:20.14Adysaah
04:20.16AdysI didnt look
04:20.20Zealits about the relationship between spellitem and spell ;)
04:20.36Adyswe'll see
04:20.43Zealkk
04:20.44Adysand if you're correct
04:20.51Adyswe're just gonna need a Socketbonus: namespace
04:20.53Adysnothing more
04:21.11Zealwell it covered + dmg aswell
04:21.19Zealso not sockets only
04:21.36Zeallike +10 arance damage
04:22.22Zealif those are only for socket bonuses i dunno, would need to check that too, but i suspect not.
04:23.42Zealbut their values are fixed unlike spells
04:24.20Zealand don't contain any icons and spell atributes like radius, description, debuff, rank etc.
04:25.08Zealprobably the onyl reason they're in a seperate database is because they use like a 10th of the fields on the spell table which is the largest table in the database..
04:25.24Adyshehe /who ironforge = 3 players total counting me
04:25.33Zealdead, lol
04:25.49Adysdarnassus = 1 player
04:25.51Adyslevel 1 ^^
04:25.58Zeal10 man mc @ 70 :p
04:26.18Adyswe did an ubrs run some time ago
04:26.18Adyswe gotta do it again now more are 70
04:27.18Zealwith how many people?
04:27.57Zealmy hope is 70's will do the 60-end game now, and the loot they can sell, will go on auction houses for cheaper than before
04:28.33Zealso it's better for casual 56-60, and those going to outland can still get the teir sets before hand if they have the money
04:30.18Zealnothing better than thunderfury @ 70? O_o
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04:39.18ZealO_o
04:39.27Zealinteresting name there Compaq_Administr..
04:39.33Zeallol
04:39.35Adyslol
04:40.09Zealsomeone had challanged lorekeeper to a lore shown down :P
04:40.14Zeal*has
04:40.20Zeal*lorekeepers
04:40.53Zealand no, it's not me, my memory is too shit to do such a thing >_>;
04:41.13Zeali'm jsut the one who reads, checks facts and points out your flaws :p
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04:42.12Kirkburn|afkOrly?
04:43.16ZealYa'rly
04:43.23AdysKirkburn!
04:43.41AdysDo you know of an addon that saves action buttons client side rather than serverside?
04:44.00Adysso instead of modifying what the buttons contain it modifies the buttons position
04:44.08Adysif you see what i mean :p
04:44.26Kirkburn|afkYou want to be able to change the action bars' positions?
04:44.33AdysNo
04:44.54AdysI basically gave my main account to a friend
04:44.54Adysbut I still sometimes log on it
04:44.55Kirkburn|afkNaughty naughty
04:45.06Adysand i want to be able to have my own button configuration without modifying anything serverside
04:45.17Adysso instead of modifying whats inside the buttons like all addons do
04:45.18Kirkburn|afkHmm, it would be difficult
04:45.22AdysI modify the button's position
04:45.36Adysso that button 1 becomes button 5 etc
04:45.42AdysIm sure its possible
04:45.45Kirkburn|afkYou'd have to individually place each button
04:45.48Adysi dont know if anyone bothered with it
04:45.49Adysaye
04:46.03Adysbut that can be done by the addon automatically
04:46.19Kirkburn|afkIt's possible, but I don't know what addons do it that way
04:46.30Kirkburn|afkI use Bartender which only works on full bars
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04:46.36Adyssame
04:46.37Zealadys, the only issue, is the key binds would still remain the same.
04:46.45Adysdont mind
04:46.49Zealkk then
04:46.56AdysI rarely log on
04:46.58Adysvery rarely
04:47.18Adysbut when i do i rather have it playable :p
04:47.31Zealcan anyone confirm that miev gives you a quest to kill illidan and coems in to help you kill him?
04:47.41Adys... Huh
04:47.47Adysillidan isnt in game
04:47.52Zealjust had someone say it's confirmed, but i'm highly in doubt.. simply because it's not possible to be confirmed
04:47.53Zeallol
04:48.10Zealindeed, hes not in, BT is not done..
04:48.13Adysbtw kirkburn!
04:48.17Zealshe might give a quest though, dunno
04:48.28Zealyes, bte Kirkburn|afk. bc template troubles
04:48.37Zeal*btw
04:48.38Adysno not that
04:48.40Kirkburn|afkIn what way?
04:48.41Zealrofl
04:48.46Zealread the talk page :P
04:48.54Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Templates/Elinks_Templates_Standardization
04:48.54Zealboth bc and bc/content one
04:48.56AdysVote vote vot
04:48.58Adys+e
04:49.03Zealas fandy was messing about :P
04:50.00Kirkburn|afkBleh, I can't be bothered with IE6 support :P
04:50.34Adyssod ie6 tbh
04:51.36Kirkburn|afkBtw, I like 6 figure hex as it's the standard
04:52.19Adysmore seriously I really wanna get rid of this thing with elinksitem
04:52.51Zealits not the standard
04:52.53Zealthey both are
04:53.02Adyszstill annoying
04:53.14Kirkburn|afkIt's more standard, okay
04:53.16Zealits short hand, and as full was not needed, there is no reason to do it otherwise
04:53.20Kirkburn|afkAll html editors use 6 digits
04:53.22Zealits not mroe standard :P
04:53.28Kirkburn|afkBut he was wrong in the way he changed it
04:54.00Zealbecause they want to be fully compat with those who want to use random colours, nothing having to do further checks needless on the programs part, it makes sense.
04:54.20Zealthey should really optimize when completed
04:54.34Zealand reduce to short hand where it can
04:54.50Kirkburn|afkSimplicity, I guess - otherwise you start using different styles in different parts of the code
04:55.01Zealhow so?
04:55.27Kirkburn|afkSay one part uses 363636, and another uses 333333, then you'll have two different hex styles after optimizing ;)
04:55.30Zealonly those who do not understand css would have problems, and teaching css is not the job of styling..
04:55.39Kirkburn|afkYeah I know
04:55.40Zealstyles?
04:55.43Zealwtf you on about :s
04:55.55Zealchaning it to 333 does no harm
04:55.59Kirkburn|afkYou'd then have some parts being 6 digit, and som 3 digit
04:56.04Zealand?
04:56.13Kirkburn|afkDid you read what I said?
04:56.15Zealtheres no benefit to making it 6
04:56.17Zealyes
04:56.31Kirkburn|afkI know, I said it's for /simplicity/ - easier to understand
04:56.51Kirkburn|afk<PROTECTED>
04:56.59Zealyou're saying you want to be anally consistant at the cose to easy of use is all i'm hearing..
04:57.01Kirkburn|afkNot sure what I can do about the template
04:57.13Zeal*cost of ease of use and less code
04:57.27Zealwell i said, switch back to float
04:57.36Kirkburn|afk3 digits zeal, it doesn't break the code bank ;)
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04:57.53Zealit all ads up, especially when you're using it all over the place
04:58.15Kirkburn|afkBack to float?
04:58.41Zealanyways.. the float is less off center than what that one is in FF2, and consistant across the browsers, i think it'd be a better choice.
04:58.44Zealyes
04:59.13Zealyours uses relatively absolute positioning
04:59.15Kirkburn|afkOh, I just saw how you did it in one of the examples
05:00.02Kirkburn|afkGimme a few secs to make one up
05:00.48Zealkk
05:03.38Kirkburn|afkEnd of page: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template_talk:Bc/content
05:03.53Adysyep works fine in ff2
05:04.11Kirkburn|afkIt's a bit bigger, unfortunately
05:05.31Kirkburn|afkZeal, ?
05:06.43AdysKirkburn btw
05:06.52Adysto my original question :P
05:06.57Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Templates/Elinks_Templates_Standardization - opinions?
05:09.34Kirkburn|afkWhat we do need to keep is backwards compatibility, so personally I think I might go for option 2 - in case thott sorts the id values in future. But I'm not sure, tbh
05:10.22Adysif they sort it we will nee donly one argument anyways no?
05:10.26Adyssince itd be the same
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05:12.09Adysalo hob
05:12.12Hobinheim|playhello
05:12.14Adyshob! http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Templates/Elinks_Templates_Standardization
05:13.19Kirkburn|afkUpdating template now
05:13.25Hobinheim|playwho wrote this proposal
05:13.31Adysme ><
05:13.59AdysC'tait son dernier template...
05:14.41Hobinheim|playdid i mention i don't like the exists template
05:15.31Hobinheim|playi can't vote cuz it won't load
05:15.48Adysyea kirk is updating bs
05:15.49Adysbc
05:15.56Hobinheim|playanyway, my conspiracy theory is that the exists template contributes to the server slowdowns
05:16.04Adysno kidding :p
05:16.13Kirkburn|afkIt errored, as per usual :P
05:16.28Kirkburn|afkAlso, it has almost certainly pinged vlad as a result :/
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05:16.53Hobinheim|playi'm heavily against exists, wink wink
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05:18.29ZealHobinheim|play, exist is not more damaging than if, qif, switch, equal etc.
05:18.40Zeal*no more
05:18.45Hobinheim|playtwo wrongs don't make a right
05:18.55Zealthey're all contributing to brining the wiki to its knees
05:19.13Zealand vlad knows now
05:19.19Hobinheim|playhttp://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Class%3A
05:19.29Zealand said he plans to upgrade and put parserfunctions on next week or so.
05:19.41Zealso we can wave them all goodbye
05:20.11Zealand sorry i took so long to reply (well can't not the wiki is down) Kirkburn|afk, was settling a lore debate elsewhere
05:20.18Kirkburn|afk=)
05:20.28Kirkburn|afkTemplate should be fixed now
05:20.30Adyswhere where?! :)
05:21.04Zealrofl can't say tbh.
05:21.17Adys#pornforfreee ?
05:21.21ZealO_o
05:21.24Zealno, lol
05:21.28Kirkburn|afkWiki is back
05:21.30AdysDamn.
05:21.33Kirkburn|afkhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Bc/content
05:21.37Zealoo, i got a page without css, lol
05:21.45Kirkburn|afkYeah, so did I
05:21.54AdysKirk, theres a typo on the template
05:21.57Adysgonna fix it brb
05:22.01Kirkburn|afkWait!
05:22.04Adyshaha
05:22.19Kirkburn|afkHeyyyyyyy
05:22.26Kirkburn|afkYou evil bastard
05:22.30Adyssorry that was just too tempting
05:22.42Zealand yeah, that exist temaplte includess no page. your point? it ads even less server load than any of the other conditionals
05:22.56Kirkburn|afkWell, there is the fact the image doesn't link to the BC article now
05:23.08Zeal*exist template resulting Class: link list :P
05:23.13ZealKirkburn|afk
05:23.18Zealyou know my thoughts on that
05:23.23Zeali don't want it to : /
05:23.25Kirkburn|afkYeah
05:23.59Zeal2px margin huh?
05:24.14Hobinheim|playuhh there's no way to know how much "server load" a given template affects
05:24.24Zealwhat happens when someone changes font size in the browser? that's right, it's no longer aligned ;)
05:25.53ZealHobinheim|play, other conditional templates include the contents of pages and have to resolve values of parameters. exist merely includes one page contents and another that does not exist exist (thus nothing to include) so yes.. there is less load
05:26.16Zeali read up about it on mediwiki before i gave the results i did on the village pump
05:27.18Kirkburn|afkZeal 2px margin because I removed the padding
05:27.31Zealoh shit er..
05:27.34Zealbad move
05:28.19Kirkburn|afko_^
05:28.26Zealjust noticed you used {{img}} ;) lots of conditionals there.. alot lol
05:28.39Zealhave to see how it holds up
05:29.01Zealanyways.. try using em for the margin was my point
05:29.10Hobinheim|playi'd like to see your research
05:29.24Hobinheim|playi don't believe you and i still think it's wrong, regardless
05:29.28Zealno research to be done, already there hob.
05:29.35Hobinheim|playwhere
05:29.54Zealeither way, i want all the conditional templates gone, the argument of server load of each is irrelevent
05:29.57Zealon mediwiki
05:30.40Zealit explains how transclusion works, templates, server load, expansion, the restrictions they put in place as a test to combat it.
05:31.17Hobinheim|playthe exists parser function still shouldn't be used in the loot template
05:31.28Hobinheim|playby the time that upgrade is done, we should have a way to properly edit the css
05:32.06Zealyou'll notice conditional temaplates used too many times on a single page = dead page, dead wiki when the template is changed. templates using conditional templates on many pages = slow wiki, dead wiki when the template is changed.
05:32.28Zealwe've already been through the css idea
05:32.29Zealthat's fine
05:32.45Zealbut can't be used in all cases
05:33.06Zealas you've have to make css for everytime you wanted to format something different based on existance
05:33.14Zeal*you'd
05:33.26Kirkburn|afkHmm, gonan change it to not use img template
05:33.35Kirkburn|afk(btw, I got that from one of the examples you did)
05:33.46Zeali know Kirkburn|afk. this was before i knew
05:33.54Kirkburn|afk^^
05:34.06Hobinheim|playcss is for formatting
05:34.11Zealimg is better, i just wouldn't recommend using it on a large scale until it uses parserfunctions
05:34.17Hobinheim|playmaking a css for each instance of something to be formatted is expected
05:34.37Zealbut not exceptable to put it in css Hobinheim|play
05:34.43Zeal*acceptable
05:34.49Hobinheim|playit's not acceptable?
05:35.02Hobinheim|playwhat are you talking about?
05:35.20Kirkburn|afkAnd it's off
05:35.38Zeallets say i want to check for the existance of a image to decide if i want to display a thumbnail of it or the full image...
05:35.52Hobinheim|playwhy would you want to do that?
05:36.10Hobinheim|play"a thumbnail" or "a full image" both require the existence of the image
05:36.16Zealbecause a thumbnail > generated rescale
05:36.24Zealno hob
05:36.26AdysNot a manual thumbnail
05:36.46Adyscheck Silvermoon: Anatomy of a City for an example
05:36.58Zealhm Adys?
05:37.03Adysnm
05:37.34Hobinheim|playnot loading
05:37.45Zealanyways.. theres no way we should be sticking in random exist outcomes in the css.. only those which are standard to the wiki as a whole, which loot is.
05:38.02Hobinheim|playyou're still not outlining a really good example
05:38.04Hobinheim|playyou sound crazy
05:38.15Zealcos i can't think of an example atm.
05:38.16Hobinheim|playyou're making zero sense
05:38.19Hobinheim|playstyle things belong in css
05:38.23Zeali'm making plenty of sense
05:38.26Hobinheim|playand they aren't that hard. you're just making them sound hard
05:38.58Zealthey do hob, when they are used on the wiki. but if a user wanted to style their user page, you don't stick that in the site's css
05:39.09Hobinheim|playof course not
05:39.18Zealsame goes for exist outcomes
05:39.30Hobinheim|playwhat does a user's page have to do with exists used throughout the site
05:39.33Zealif they aren't standard to the wiki, they don't belond in the css
05:39.52Zeal*belong
05:40.11Hobinheim|playright, so what are you saying
05:40.23Zealoh ffs..
05:40.24Hobinheim|playit just sounded like you're disagreeing with yourself
05:40.28Zealno..
05:41.09*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Hobinheim] by ChanServ
05:41.19Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Bot_Requests
05:44.12*** join/#wowwiki Dragofix (i=Dragofix@dsl-hkigw8-fe10f800-107.dhcp.inet.fi)
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05:46.14*** part/#wowwiki Hobinheim (n=Hobinhei@c-69-142-120-32.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
05:48.52Zealscrew that list.. too long
05:48.59Zealand he' gone..
05:50.31Zealok.. anyone else, was is a simple concept, that only standard styling, that which is used on the wiki for normal means, should be in the wiki css and that styling based on the existance of something on the wiki that isn't standard is no exception? :S
05:50.36Zeal*it a
05:51.32Zealwhat links here really needs a filter..
05:51.40Zealnamespaces at least..
05:52.08Adyseh?
05:52.14Adysah
05:52.16Adysyeh
05:58.10Kirkburn|afkWorld of Warcraft is the 94th most populated place (country) in the world ;)
05:58.28*** join/#wowwiki Laraul (i=spoof@ip72-200-90-128.tc.ph.cox.net)
05:58.38Zeallol
05:58.58Kirkburn|afkMore people play WoW than live in Ireland and New Zealand combined
05:59.11Adyslol
05:59.22Zealyou should do it by size :p
05:59.38Zealpopulation per mete^2 or something isn't it? :s
05:59.42Zeal*meter
05:59.43Adyswhere did you get the info from?
06:00.05Kirkburn|afkHard to do with an arbitrary measuring method like WoW's
06:00.10Kirkburn|afkhttp://www.gamesradar.com/gb/pc/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=200702131331135004&releaseId=2005120716480781115722
06:01.02Adyshahahaha
06:01.48Adysawesome
06:03.38Zealconvert wow's concept of yards to meters, calculate size of each landmass, add together, times the amount of live servers, voila :P
06:03.55AdysZeal
06:03.56Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Hearthstone
06:03.57Zealsecond part is the hard bit :p
06:04.02Adyswhy did you add the clr back?
06:04.25Zealbecause the tooltip should be in the lead in and not overlap into the rest of the article?
06:04.43Adyswhy not?
06:04.45Zealthats how i was seeing msot being done, is part of the boilerplate too atm.
06:04.55Zealbecause it's a summary, belongs in the lead in.
06:05.05Adysright, gimme a sec
06:05.35Zealoo.. sga
06:05.40Zealneed to watch
06:05.43Zealand make food
06:05.48Zealfuck me, didn't see the time
06:05.50Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Dreadnaught_Waistguard
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06:06.14Adysyou imagine that with a big empty space n stuff? :P
06:06.29Kirkburn|afkZeal "convert wow's concept of yards to meters" doesn't work, unfortunately :P frFR, esES and deDE al use meters already, where 1 yard = 1 meter :(
06:06.31Zealaye, but look less ugly that what it currently does
06:06.50Zeali see Kirkburn|afk, thats lazy :(
06:06.55Zeali'd do it by yards though
06:06.55Kirkburn|afkYup
06:07.04Kirkburn|afkYeah, it was designed with yards
06:07.05Zealcos that was the intended of
06:07.10Zeal*ofc
06:07.14Kirkburn|afkWish we had metres in the enGB version though
06:07.48Zeali was taught when the change over was taking place.. so i know.. neither :p
06:07.54Zealhehe
06:08.58Zealthough i was more confortable with metrics when it came to m, cm, mm for measuring in terms of plans and designing, but with height, feet and inches :P
06:09.22Zealso got a nice jumble of both, with no idea how to convert :p
06:10.31Zealanyways.. Adys, personally, i'd drop the set table, ofc convert to my tooltip, move the image to right, and add that clear.
06:10.47Adysignore the set table
06:10.51Adysthe tooltip is big enough itself
06:10.56Zealaye
06:11.08Zealbut you do it in existing articles with the toc
06:11.24Zealwhat else.. hm.. some navigation boxes..
06:12.28Zealmy point is, the wiki is a mess, its inconsistant, i felt clearing was more presentable and better for keeping things in order and where they belong until such time the wiki adopts a better layout for articles.. aka. mine.
06:13.43Kirkburn|afkZeal, did you just say you were taught when the changeover was taking place?
06:13.43Zealaka? ie.
06:13.52Zealyes, iirc
06:14.10Zealperhaps not exact, but i was taught both, with an emphasis to favour metric
06:14.14Kirkburn|afkActually, I guess that's kinda true
06:14.39Kirkburn|afkCertainly the first few years we would have come across imperial in textbooks
06:15.04Kirkburn|afk(since it's only normal to replace those about every 30 years in most school ;)
06:15.09Zealhaha
06:15.12Zealtrue true
06:15.41Kirkburn|afkNow they just need to change our damn road system :P
06:15.57LaraulLost is on tonight!
06:16.04LaraulWell it's on right now
06:16.06Zeali jsut remember kicking peoples asses at math.. not you'd be luck to get me to ever do a single calculation :p
06:16.13Zeal*lucky
06:16.19Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Contributions/Idsioledo
06:16.23LaraulBut I'll wait till i'm finished watching the Daily Show
06:16.29Zealfunny how you change.. >_>
06:16.31AdysIm banning this idiot not even gonna wait
06:16.58Zealadys, wtf..
06:17.11Zealyou now lost the lead in, and that section has nothing to do with the "source"
06:17.27Adysit has, read it :P
06:17.35Zeal"slight cleanup" /spit : /
06:17.54Zealok..
06:17.58AdysZeal try your page honestly it looks screwed up
06:17.58Zealwhen did that text change?
06:18.10Zealit didn't say that the first time you added source..
06:18.15Zeal>_>
06:18.18Zealconspiracy!
06:18.42Zealtry my page?
06:18.45Zealwhat do you mean?
06:18.55Kirkburn|afkInfo is singular
06:18.56LaraulEr so he add a :)
06:19.03Kirkburn|afk(frenchisms, I know)
06:19.27Adysinfo?
06:19.28LaraulHonestly... it's scary that you'd even catch that
06:19.44Zealhuh? :s
06:19.46Adysi caught it
06:19.49Kirkburn|afkhttp://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev top-right
06:19.56Zealand ban hammer swing free..
06:20.14AdysErr, so? He added a ":)"
06:20.20Adysthats what you meant right :P
06:20.21Kirkburn|afkLaraul, he deleted the entire article
06:20.29Adysmultiple of them
06:20.30Kirkburn|afk(s)
06:20.33Adyshe blanked all guilds
06:20.44AdysKirkburn: Whats up with http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Dev ?
06:20.55Kirkburn|afkInfo is singular
06:20.59Zealargh
06:21.00AdysBAH
06:21.02Zealwtf is going on? :(
06:21.16Kirkburn|afkZeal, what's up?
06:21.18Zealoh i get it
06:21.20Zeallol
06:21.32Zealnvm, had no idea what you were on about Kirkburn|afk :P
06:21.37Kirkburn|afk=)
06:21.47Zealinfos, hehe
06:21.52Adysshupp
06:21.59Zeallol
06:22.05Adysill have my revenge
06:22.34Kirkburn|afkBy "Source", what exactly does it mean? Where you can obtain it from in-game?
06:22.53Zealhonestly adys, if the wiki was fixed width, i'd be interesting in persuing the coarse of action you're taking with your dev page. but its not, it's futile to try : /
06:22.56AdysYea kirk
06:23.12Zealwell i still think i'm right, that page just needs a lead in
06:23.18Adysthen we can make it fixed width
06:23.35Zealatm, all the important info is in the notes >_>
06:23.39Zealwhich is stupid
06:23.40Kirkburn|afkmin-width, you mean
06:23.43Zealno
06:23.45Zealfixed width
06:23.48Adyssomeone edits BC template, Ill edit the {{epic}} one, lets ring vlad
06:23.49Zealand no, we can't adys
06:24.07Zealit would require a complete redisgn of the css
06:24.28AdysAnd? We're here to have something to do no :p
06:24.31Kirkburn|afkWhat's wrong with that design atm anyway?
06:24.48LaraulThere needs to be a complete redesign of the CSS
06:24.53Zealadys wanted to make something more along the lines of wowhead.
06:25.12Adystwo tooltips for infos is a great idea they had imo
06:25.16Zealyet, it would require fixed width, otherwise you end up with overflow or empty space.
06:25.23Zeal*and/or
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06:25.44LaraulFixed Width font is not good for web design
06:25.52Kirkburn|afkI would agree with the two tooltip idea personally
06:25.56Zealnot talking about fon't :p
06:26.06Kirkburn|afkKeep the tooltip exactly as in game
06:26.12Zealbut fixed width is not good web design either.. lol
06:26.15Adysyep thats the point
06:26.17axxofixed width pages are the worst thing in webdesign
06:26.27Zealcertainly not for a site with dyanmic content like a wiki
06:26.57LaraulOh you mean fixed width for a specific screen resolution
06:27.04LaraulThat's bad too
06:27.11Kirkburn|afkLike making the content box 800px, that type of thing, yes
06:27.19Zealyou could though, fix by em
06:27.24Zealwhich is perfectly exceptable
06:27.31Zeal*acceptable
06:27.32Zealffs
06:27.54LaraulThe thing should be readable even at 640x480
06:28.03Adysjepp
06:28.03Zealbut fixing, even by em, means empty space.
06:28.15Adysbtw
06:28.33Zealbut it does atleast ensure line length are readable, which i think is well worth it.
06:28.34Adysis there a possibility to use some javascript for a show/hide button
06:28.51AdysI was thinking of remaking the tooltip like in game for set items aswell
06:28.53Zealif we have acess to the js files, then sure.
06:28.53Adysexample http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22423
06:29.01Kirkburn|afkCan anyone reach http://www.georgepribul.eu/
06:29.05Adysbut it would make it huge, so would be good to make a show/hide setbonuses
06:29.09AdysI can kirk
06:29.20Laraulyes
06:29.21Zealtbh, Teomyr|off would be a good person to talk to about that, having intergrated a tooltip tag and javascript for it.
06:29.27Kirkburn|afkWhat ze f**k?
06:29.38Kirkburn|afkI can't.
06:29.39Adysmm ok
06:29.41Zealme too
06:30.11LaraulLiar! You spend all your spare time in here!
06:30.15Kirkburn|afkCan't reach my host's website either. Or the wiki.
06:30.45LaraulAnd I've only seen you as Kirkburn|afk - That is who you are to me!
06:30.47Zealwell, i favor hover over show/hide for information like that adys.
06:30.51Kirkburn|afklol
06:31.07Adyswill see it was just an idea anyways
06:31.51Zeali'd want to do the same for crafting
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06:32.00Laraulwell gonna start watching Lost... cuz Lost is kewl!
06:32.11Adyshello kirkburn, hello kirkburn|afk
06:32.12Zealwas expecting that eventually Kirkburn :P
06:32.21Zealyour net probably died is my guess.
06:32.24Zealanyways..
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06:32.40LaraulDUQ ABC!
06:32.45LaraulEr Fuq I mean
06:33.27LaraulI have it start recording two minutes early and STILL they end up airing before it starts
06:33.29LaraulWTF
06:33.55Zealas i was saying. atm, crafting merley links to the item. the in-game way should not be done, but in-game it makes sense to do it. however, they still did it awfully anyways, so we should not emulate that. i'd like a hover tooltip for the item, just as is planned for lootlinks.
06:34.04Zeallol Laraul
06:34.10KirkburnDidn't fix my problems connecting to websites though :
06:34.11Zeali can't do that stuff with sky+ : /
06:34.24Zealbut they very rarely screw up times
06:34.30KirkburnAt least this still works - I'm currently watching: http://www.wii-consoles.co.uk/wii_console_realtime.asp
06:34.40Zeallol
06:34.57Laraulwait this is the end of last weeks episode
06:35.09KirkburnOh, oh, works now. How random
06:35.17LaraulLike your nick!
06:35.33Zealanyways.. i need to sort out food, brb
06:39.30Zealdo you know what pisses me off most?
06:40.43KirkburnMonkeys who steal all the bananas?
06:40.48KirkburnWoot: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6346435.stm
06:40.49Zeallol
06:41.05AdysLol zeal
06:41.13Adysyes please tell us what pisses you off the most :P
06:41.45Zealflimsy plastic film used for food packaging, the sort that is glued down to the container, and when you go to peel it off, it rips to shreads, often with the barely seeable plastic falling into your food..
06:42.34Kirkburnhaha
06:42.34Zeali hate that law tbh..
06:42.53Zealits wrong that establishments can't decide on their own rules
06:43.30KirkburnTrue, but there isn't much incentive for them to ban it themselves
06:43.31Zealit should be made criminal, there should be a ban on public smoking, but i think establishments should be able to choose if they want to be smoking or non-smoking.
06:44.08Zealcos under that law, they have no choice. its non-smoking or they get a fine to the point they get closed down..
06:44.20KirkburnTis true
06:45.16KirkburnOut of the 20 or pubs around my town, I only know of one that banned smoking so far
06:45.23Zealnext up.. no farting in public or establishments.. it polutes the ozone.. >_>
06:45.26Kirkburnheh
06:45.31Zealonly in toilets or in private..
06:45.36KirkburnIt's wonderful in that pub though, so, /so/ much nicer
06:45.42Zealaye, i agree
06:45.46Zealmost of my friends smoke
06:45.52Zeali don't
06:46.07Zealbut they make an effort to smoke up down wind of me ;)
06:46.17KirkburnThat's cool, good of them :)
06:46.18Zeal*down
06:46.20Zeali think :S
06:46.27KirkburnYeah
06:46.55Zealones making an effort to quite atm, the other is capable of quitting easily.
06:47.03Zeal*quit
06:47.25Zealthe former though likes his snus..
06:47.26Zealheh
06:47.36KirkburnNo smokers in my house, and we're pretty much all teetotal too :P
06:47.51Zealteetotal? :s
06:47.53Kirkburn(what kind of student are we?!)
06:48.00Zeallol
06:48.27KirkburnOne guy literally is teetotal, whereas I just don't feel the need to get drunk
06:49.41Adyslol
06:50.00AdysI just remembered this emo vandal we had a few weeks ago
06:50.08Adysand realized how hilarious he was
06:50.11Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=User_talk%3AAfrothunder75&timestamp=20070117093117
06:50.37AdysHe recreated a deleted page 5 times
06:50.41AdysKirkburn's warning: This is your final warning. If you recreate that page again, you are banned. Do five article deletes not suggest anything to you? {{User:Kirkburn/Sig}}
06:50.57AdysAnd his answer:
06:50.57AdysUmmm I was under the impression that I could add whatever I felt like to the DOOMHAMMER forum which is relative to DOOMHAMMER and it's fucking lingo. If you have a problem with it then delete all the other lingo entries from the lingo list, because if anything they are just as bad. Until then I will continue to post my ENTRY!!! under BALLIN!!! until you get the point.
06:50.58AdysIt is a word USED by many people on the alliance side, and there for IS lingo that should be under the lingo forums. SO until then I will continue to post it until you make it up in your mind to DELETE all entries under doomhammer lingo.
06:50.59AdysTrust me when I say, it will not stop, The post will continue, even after you ban me! So do what you can, because it will not stop!!
06:51.02Adys<3
06:51.11Kirkburn:P
06:51.21AdysI just find it so ..
06:51.26AdysI think emo is the word tbh
06:51.27Zealhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus
06:52.03Zealreally wish they would legalize.. its good alternative to help those who have trouble quitting, while improve their health and all of those around them.
06:52.36Zealfyi i have tried snus once, didn't like it, heh.
06:53.05Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Afrothunder75 there it is
06:55.06Zealerm.. wtf how can a new page creation show up in my watchlist??? :S
06:55.19Zeal*by someone else
06:55.22KirkburnRecreated old page?
06:55.28KirkburnWhich page?
06:55.33Zealhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Virtuous
06:55.50Zealdon't recall watching it :s
06:55.51KirkburnAh yes
06:55.57KirkburnFrom the Template:Guild debacle
06:56.10KirkburnIt got moved around
06:56.12Zealoh.. it got moved..
06:56.14Zeali see, kk
06:56.28KirkburnDelete log: 20:55, 13 February 2007 Kirkburn (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Virtuous" (content was: '#REDIRECT Template:Guild' (and the only contributor was 'Kirkburn'))
06:56.28Adysor you were watching the talk page
06:56.28Zealcos ofc, i was watching template:guild :p
06:56.30Kirkburn:)
06:56.51Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Adyswatchlist.jpg mwuahhahaha
06:57.07KirkburnI only have 536
06:57.18Adys321 here now
06:57.26Adysbut i did clear it :P
06:57.32Zeal958 pages watched not counting talk pages
06:57.37Zealhow do you see with? :S
06:58.04Adysyou dont
06:58.20Adysyou need to "remove all pages" then it shows this confirmation warning
07:00.06Zealah, confirmation..
07:00.19Zeal1916
07:00.49Adysit watches pages not created yet too :p
07:01.10Zeallol
07:01.39Zealmmm.. this cauliflower & cheese is win
07:02.20Zealhttp://www.wcradio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4740 btw
07:05.23LaraulI just fucking hate night... I feel like I have so much to do and yet I'm too tired to do any of it
07:05.47Zealfrom experience, i know, if i don't have my computer, i can't sleep
07:05.52Zealtoo much going on through my mind
07:06.04Zealthings i want to do, things i want to say
07:06.10Laraulugh the stress makes me feel ill :/
07:06.57Adyswow radio is quite fun atm btw
07:07.05Adysrandom talks
07:07.08Larauli can't even watch TV cuz I feel as though i'm gonna heave
07:07.13Zeali never knew cauliflower cheese could taste sooo good.
07:07.13Adys"Imps should get their own flying mount"
07:07.21Zealwhats up with you Laraul? :S
07:07.36LaraulI dunno...
07:07.43ZealKirkburn, Tesco's Cauliflower & Cheese.. you must try some :P
07:07.50LaraulJust fustrated
07:08.25Zealwell when that happens, i usually order a movie on ppv, and stay up till i pass out. but if that's not working for ya.. :s
07:08.29Zealdunno
07:09.17Zealperhaps some sleeping pills?
07:09.18Zeal:s
07:10.15LaraulI ran out the other day
07:10.40LaraulThey don't always help either
07:10.45Zealhttp://www.zealvurte.co.uk/temp/judge_metzen.jpg still remains win..
07:11.01Zealwell i've never taken any, but i hope ya feel better : /
07:11.16Laraulnever?
07:11.24Zealnope
07:11.40Zealclosest thing to that i've ever had is caough medicene that makes you drowsey, lol
07:11.49Zeal*cough
07:12.00AdysWooot :D
07:12.03Adys[Formula: Enchant Weapon - Major Spellpower] after two kills =)
07:12.10Zealcool
07:12.16LaraulI've taken like huge amounts of Geodon...
07:12.31Adysthat was a nice surprise
07:12.45Zeal: /
07:12.54Zealwell i'm gunna go watch SGA, bbl
07:12.56LaraulThat stuff will knock you out cold... I swear you can get shot in the arm and not wake up
07:13.03Zealhehe
07:13.07LaraulBut when you wake up you feel so awful
07:13.15zeali bet
07:13.20LaraulSo it's not worth it
07:13.40KirkburnHeh, I love this sketch from Family Guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5TGetQ8zhE
07:14.11LaraulOnly time I've done that is when I'm having a bad panic attack and will do anything to get me to stop
07:15.05Kirkburn(also this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQTQ3IywSQ)
07:15.12Laraulof course... after you take a bunch of pills that just makes you panic more... at least until they kick in
07:15.53LaraulWhen they kick in... it kicks in fast...
07:17.19LaraulWhen you are anxious like that though you just aren't thinking... and you end up doing some really dumb things
07:21.49*** join/#wowwiki _dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-44.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:51.26*** join/#wowwiki kasatopia (n=kas@ip70-174-75-117.hr.hr.cox.net)
08:13.09ZealKirkburn, i maintance my opinion of family guy. yes its funny, but as a series its awful. short clips bring to light how bad it is. its simply incoherent sketches throughout an episode, no impact to the characters or a plot.
08:13.44Zeal*maintain :s
08:14.15Zealso as shot clips, as they are on you tube, are good. but that's it.
08:14.30Zeal*short
08:14.42Zeal*they are
08:15.40KirkburnWho cares if it's essentially a sketch show, it's still funny :)
08:16.24KirkburnBut if it's not someone enjoys, that's entirely up to them - it's a very dividing show I know
08:16.34Kirkburn*something someone
08:17.25KirkburnIt's like porn - no real story, but enjoyable in parts \o/
08:18.12Kirkburn(oooh, he went there)
08:19.44Zealrofl
08:19.59Zeali prefer the amatuer stuff ;)
08:20.34Zeali just don't feel it fills it's purpose. if it was presented as a sketch show, then fine, but it's not.
08:40.07KirkburnThese situations are just /stupid/ - http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650 and http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2004-03-29-child-self-porn_x.htm
08:44.21LaraulDoes Charlie die? Is his fate already written?
08:45.19LaraulIf he is killed off man that'll suck
08:48.33ZealO_o
08:48.39Zealany *sigh* Kirkburn
08:48.41Zeal*and
08:48.55Zealstupid laws ftl
08:49.03KirkburnCharlie?!
08:53.39Kirkburn*sigh*, so I have to write a report on Foundation design for tomorrow :/ Boooring
08:54.04*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-44.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
08:56.18Zealhehe
08:56.29Zealsuck to be you ;)
08:56.31Zeal*sucks
09:00.16Zealhttp://blizzplanet.com/news/1229/ whats the bet the "undiscovered" one is a pheonix?
09:05.40KirkburnThe new PCG has an attunement to Hyjal chart :)
09:06.52KirkburnAnd yeah, sounds likely
09:10.14ZealPCG?
09:10.26KirkburnPc gamer
09:10.30Zealah
09:10.35KirkburnAlso, it gave WoW:TBC 87%
09:10.36Zealdon't buy gaming mags tbh
09:10.52Zeali'd probably agree with that rating
09:11.15Zealwow however, would get a bit lower ;)
09:11.21KirkburnThey called the Arrakoa "Skettis" :/
09:11.25Zealnot much however
09:11.33Zeal74% or something
09:11.38Zealskettis? :s
09:11.56Zealisn't that from another fantasy world?
09:12.45KirkburnOoh, naughty - they used Map Viewer to get a screenshot of Hyjal (current Hyjal)
09:12.58KirkburnSkettis is the Arrakoa's main city
09:13.06Zeallol Kirkburn
09:13.09KirkburnIt's in Terokkar, only accessible by flying mount
09:13.33KirkburnBut yes, the name Skettis is taken from a bird-like race from elsewhere, don't recall which
09:13.34Zealoh? hm.. is it like atop a waterfall? :s
09:13.41KirkburnYeah
09:13.44Zealah kk
09:13.51Zealremember flying over that in map viewer ;)
09:13.59KirkburnMost of their review screenshots are from Hellfire
09:14.05Zealactually i remember going up there in the sandbox >_>;
09:14.32Zealback when their tree buildings weren't complete
09:15.11Zealand looked like giant white pinocchios.. O_o
09:15.38Zealactually, looked like bill and ben..
09:15.39Zealrofl
09:15.58KirkburnI do agree with one of their points - they should have added more stuff from 20-60
09:16.11Zealimo, nah
09:16.26Zeali do think their should have been one new low lvl instance though
09:16.32KirkburnNot a huge amount, but just a little more variety
09:16.33Zeal*at least one
09:16.37KirkburnYeah, that kind of thing
09:16.55Zeali was expecting ZA to be that at first..
09:17.15KirkburnThere's two portals in Quel'thalas, strangely
09:17.34KirkburnI guess one could be a ZA back entrance
09:17.38Zealoh?
09:17.41Zealonly seen one :s
09:18.00KirkburnYeah, I've seen people mention there's one in Eversong, and one in Ghostlands
09:18.16Zealany idea where in eversong? O_o
09:18.25KirkburnThe troll camps, east side
09:19.56KirkburnSE it says
09:20.14Kirkburner, eversong
09:20.38KirkburnAccording to the wiki's page on Eversong, anyway. "An unknown wooden gate"
09:22.47*** join/#wowwiki kazurk (n=kas@ip70-174-75-117.hr.hr.cox.net)
09:24.04KirkburnOoh, that reminds me
09:24.14KirkburnWe could probably bot moving {{bc}} to the page beginning
09:24.22Zealyeah, its there, and yeah there's a raid portal behind it.
09:24.31Zealaye
09:24.46Zealseems to be the same entrance model as ZA
09:24.52KirkburnInteresting!
09:24.53Zealso backdoor maybe, yeah
09:25.38Zealgod damn.. i need texture aa..
09:25.52KirkburnAdys, http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Adys/Bot_Requests
09:25.53Zealcan't wait till i get a new gfx card, onyl thing that annoys me
09:26.27AdysAye was thinking of it too kirk
09:26.50Kirkburn:)
09:26.57KirkburnWhat you gonna get, Zeal?
09:27.08Zealtext bloackage.. that's a sign of low resources right?
09:27.11AdysWait wait wait
09:27.19Adysyour current graphic card
09:27.22Zealand w/e is out tbh
09:27.26Adysis the ONLY THING that annoys you?!?
09:27.28Adys:P
09:27.44Zealonyl thing that annoys me about my current gfx card :P
09:27.52AdysAaah..
09:27.53KirkburnGet the nVidia 8xxx one they're about to bring out
09:27.53Adyslol
09:28.02KirkburnIt's supposed to be £300
09:28.06Kirkburn$300 I mean
09:28.24Zeali'm waiting for the X2900XT
09:28.33Zealand an new mobo
09:28.47Zealie, a shuttle with an ati chipset
09:29.03Zealwith or without xfire
09:30.03Zealjust out of curiosity, how many processes do you guys run on average? :P
09:30.18KirkburnIs that the R600?
09:30.22Zealaye
09:30.39Kirkburn65 processes atm
09:30.45Zealand just incase you forgot, yes seen the pics, and we had a long talk about it.
09:30.49Zealhm.. wow surprised
09:31.06KirkburnHowever, this laptop is in MAJOR need of an overhaul
09:31.07Zeali'm running 55 atm
09:31.10Zeallol
09:31.26KirkburnNot sure about my VIsta desktop
09:32.11Kirkburn50
09:32.21Kirkburn(just brought it out of sleep mode)
09:32.33Zealapparently a big load of critical security patches today/yesterday for windows
09:32.38Zealdunno which one, but i think xp
09:32.44KirkburnThat's with the sidebar up, several G15 processes and some progs open
09:32.54KirkburnYeah about 10 for XP
09:32.57Zealsvchost hates me
09:33.01KirkburnCouple for Office and 2 for Vista iirc
09:33.14Zealrandom cpu spikes and the most mem usage of anything on my pc..
09:33.28KirkburnNo svhost on Vista afaik
09:33.48Zealyet i've reduced the service count to what i need.. and because of the nature of services, i can't find out what the problem service is
09:34.12KirkburnThe list of services I have running is enormous
09:34.37KirkburnLol, I lie
09:34.46KirkburnMany many svhost on Vista, but they're hidden by default
09:34.51Zealyay, wowmapview has kileld my resources now it seems, everything is sluggish : /
09:34.52Kirkburn*svchost
09:34.58Zealyeah
09:35.07Zealthough as much
09:35.16KirkburnHmm, Vista seems to hate me today, so gonna shut down
09:35.23KirkburnPlus I'm off to Uni now
09:35.28Zealmicrosoft: "let's just hide thme so people think they're not there.."
09:35.30KirkburnBe back thia afternoon
09:35.32Adyscya kirk
09:35.34Zealttyl
09:36.30KirkburnI should probably restart this laptop at some point ^^
09:36.53KirkburnPoor thing, it takes about 2 minutes from login to actually be usable
09:37.10KirkburnScared to put Vista on though, in case I brick it
09:38.03Zeallol
09:38.19Zealas i though, one of the fixes is a fix for windows defender
09:38.31Zealapparently a vulnerability in it :P
09:38.42KirkburnOdd, eh :)
09:40.04KirkburnRight, off now
09:40.06KirkburnByee
09:40.13Zeal"One Microsoft Security Bulletin affecting Windows Live OneCare, Microsoft Antigen, Microsoft Windows Defender, Microsoft Forefront Security for Exchange Server and Microsoft Forefront Security for SharePoint. The highest Maximum Severity rating for these is Critical. These products provide built-in mechanisms for automatic detection and deployment of updates. Some of these updates may require a restart.
09:40.15Zeallol
09:45.11*** join/#wowwiki nemppu (i=nemppu@a91-152-188-135.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
09:46.17*** join/#wowwiki bertio (n=joe@c-76-20-96-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
09:46.33bertiolike omg is anyone here?
09:47.06bertioI was just wondering what the latest lowdown is in WoW related new :P
09:47.18bertiorumors, blue posts, etc
09:50.53Zealer..
09:51.04Zeal310% flight speed nether drake from arena
09:51.24Zeal280% flight speed nether drake from soon to be added non-raid quest line.
09:52.35Zealalso an undiscovered 310% flight speed mount
09:53.00Zeali don't really keep up with wow news
09:57.51bertiolol the undiscovered one is the pheonix
09:57.54bertiooff of kaelthas
10:00.08Zealsauce plx
10:00.38Zealit's what i had already suspected, just want to see some confirmation :P
10:03.10Adys~ping
10:03.24infobotpong
10:03.31Adysok this is really bad
10:03.43Adyseither infobot is lagging or i am having big problems><
10:04.16Zealinfobot is lagging
10:04.26Adysinfobot, noob
10:04.27infobotACTION has died.
10:04.37Adysno comment
10:04.41Zealoh wait.. ir forgot, infobot doesn't reply to pings
10:04.43Zeal..
10:04.51Zealeither way, both seem fine
10:05.01Zealyou're not lagging at least
10:05.15Zeal~ping
10:05.17infobotpong
10:05.18Adysmeh been having huge internet problems the past few days
10:05.31Zeallol
10:05.34Adys...
10:05.36Zealflood protection?
10:05.40Adysguess so
10:05.57Zealwell it's not effecting your irc it seems : /
10:06.04Adysit seems for you yea :P
10:06.19Adysmiranda shows the message even if the server didnt recieve it
10:06.29Adysso i cant actually see if im lagging
10:06.46AdysFin!
10:06.48AdysHello :)
10:07.16Zealomg i just saw the blue about wowwiki and stormcrow..
10:07.18Zealwtf..
10:07.28Adysbeen fixed
10:07.31Adysdeleted the article
10:07.31Zealwhoever added stormcrow should get a kick up the arse..
10:07.34Zeali know
10:07.39Zealbut it's tarnished rep
10:08.17Adysfin what the hell you doing oO
10:08.27Zealhe's here?
10:08.42Adyshe keeps coming online, offline, away on irc
10:09.01Zeali'm not seeing anything :S
10:09.12Adysmiranda crap
10:11.01Zealindeed
10:14.47Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/images/2/2a/Adon.jpg wtf?
10:15.28Zealhm?
10:15.35Adyser
10:15.38Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Griffonclaw_07.gif
10:15.44Adyssorry :p
10:15.45Zealhes the npc outside the entrance to ghoustlands from wpl..
10:15.46Zeallol
10:16.08Zealnot being used, i'd delete
10:16.33Zealeither user intended to use it be never did, or it's being hotlinked
10:16.53Zealwell hotlinking is disabled, but you get me.
10:18.03Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Image:KodarGoodFace.JPG
10:19.18*** join/#wowwiki Tekkub (n=tekkub@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/Tekkub)
10:19.18*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Tekkub] by ChanServ
10:19.52Zealpft, you deleted it already..
10:20.20Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Siji-and-Persis.jpg
10:20.24Adysare some people THAT BORED?!
10:21.49Zealpriv server, chars played by pervs.. that's my analysis
10:22.32Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Uncategorizedpages
10:22.44Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Unusedimages
10:22.46Adys:/
10:23.50Zealyeah.. cat team well justified :P
10:24.01Adyssigh
10:24.11Adysthere used to be only the main page in this category
10:24.18Adyswell, specialpage
10:24.52Adyszeal can you do me a small service
10:24.56Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Guild:Immersion SD tag me that
10:25.09winkillerlol
10:25.13Zealsd?
10:25.16Adysspeedy
10:25.22winkilleris Guild namespace now already decided?
10:25.28AdysNo
10:25.28winkilleror inconsistent atm?
10:25.33winkillerI read some proposal..
10:25.37Adysatm we keep to [[ Guild Name ]]
10:25.49winkillerok
10:25.51AdysYea tusva wanted to move them to Server:Servername/Guildname
10:25.55Adyswhich I think is great idea
10:26.29winkillerthe problemis, as usual with the dozens of disamb. pages
10:26.39winkillerals most people just use /[[ ]]
10:27.30winkillerback to work now...
10:27.38Zeali'm fully against what tusva suggested
10:27.43Zealand i'm for Guild:
10:28.04Zealand i don't agree with what adys siad
10:28.14Adysthat I know
10:28.15Adyslol
10:28.30Zealbecause atm, most are going udner Guild: as i think they should, and clearly someone else before me did too.
10:28.53Adysdont care how its named, we do need a better guild system
10:29.12Zealnamespaces >_>
10:29.26Adysand a page with as only content for over two weeks "Coming Soon" would get deleted straight away if I was allowed to
10:29.27Zealthe guild disambig stuff is still unresolved
10:29.41Zealyou're not allowed?
10:30.18AdysNot allowed to delete pages straight away without either them being spam, terminated, sd tagged, obviously useless or anything
10:30.46AdysI can tag them SD and let another admin delete them
10:30.52Adysbut its being very slow atm ><
10:31.19Zealoh i see. i guess that makes sense, enforces a second opinion before action
10:32.36Zealoo.. i know someone from that server..
10:32.41Zealhehe
10:32.48Zealthe vandalled one
10:32.57Zealrecognised the guild names :p
10:33.30Zeali forget where i know them.. but i remember lots of guild hatred, insults and boasting..
10:34.26Zealhm.. how easy is it to get hold of the cinematics from wc3? :S
10:34.36Zealthinking of doing a music video
10:34.57AdysI got a link for you for these zeal
10:35.10Adyssearch on warcraft movies for "pre wow series"
10:35.21Zeali wish there was a cinematic of WotA as i have the perfect idea for it.. :(
10:35.26Zealhm.. kk
10:35.27Adysit packs up all wc3 cinematics and cinematical moments
10:35.34Adysits about 9 hours total tho
10:35.36Adysbtw
10:35.37Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=NerdKnight+Xavier
10:36.16Zealoh lame.. winmpq is not backwards compat..
10:36.22Zealcan't open the wc3 mpq's :(
10:36.32Adystry MPQMaster
10:36.40Adyssec got a link for you
10:36.47Zealusing mpqeditor
10:37.22Adyshttp://adys.stools.net/mpqmaster.zip
10:37.25Adyssay when you got it
10:37.31Zealnice.. tells me it's not an mpq file, but really an avi file and i can play it
10:37.39Zealnah, don;t want it :p
10:37.45Adyssure?
10:37.54Zealbenefit of it?
10:38.01Adystis a good extractor
10:38.10Adysand its made entirely for the old games
10:38.10Zeallink is dead anyways ;)
10:38.19Zealin which case, nah
10:38.24Adysnot for me :P
10:38.35Zealmpq editor was made from for all blizzgames
10:38.42Zealand was the first to update for 2.0
10:38.45Adysok
10:38.55Zeal*-from
10:39.48Zealyay
10:39.52Zealthey are really avi files
10:39.57Zealjust renamed to mpq
10:40.09Zealplay directly
10:40.28Zeali just realized..
10:40.32Adyslol
10:40.44Zealarthas is escorted by two, what seem to be, spellbreakers :s
10:41.02Zealok nvm they're not
10:41.06Zealtrick of the light :p
10:46.17Zealthink i need to redownload vegas
10:47.42*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
10:48.30*** join/#wowwiki Kirkburn (i=89de5c13@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0735cbaf9a978828)
10:49.51KirkburnBoo!
10:50.49Kirkburnsaid the goose
10:52.52KirkburnOdd, the Main Page reports "This page has been accessed 9,907,258 times", whereas Popular Pages says "Main Page ‎(11,035,591 views)"
10:53.12Adyspff, 2 millions difference, whats the matter kirk
10:53.25Adysstop being so picky on details!
10:57.04Kirkburnlol
10:57.13KirkburnAnyway, off again. On Uni PC atm
10:57.25KirkburnProbably be back over lunch
10:57.51KirkburnSee ya
10:58.16*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
10:58.40*** part/#wowwiki Kirkburn (i=89de5c13@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0735cbaf9a978828)
11:09.35Zealhm..
11:10.04Zealwas the Undead Ending (archimonde destroying dalaran) supposed to have subtitles? :S
11:10.19Zealand lol Adys
11:10.29Adysmm?
11:11.05Adys~ping
11:11.16infobotpong
11:11.16Adysinternet going mad
11:11.28Adysbrb
11:21.07Zeallol, google knows wow = world of warcraft :p
11:21.13Zealits translates it, gg.
11:35.55axxolofl
11:37.13Zealthat's a new one :P
11:50.36*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
11:56.31*** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-96-188.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)
11:56.31*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Adys] by ChanServ
12:03.53Zealadys
12:03.55Zealyou been busy
12:03.59Zealwb
12:04.00Adysmm?
12:04.01Adysaye
12:04.05Adysinternet is being odd
12:04.29Zealyou might want to check the changes i just made the the lore policy
12:05.00Zealseemed you forgot there ws two polices on that page, and that it needed to be switched to ratified, not left as proposed.
12:05.53Zealanyways.. either way, i'll be recalling it, and failing that, leaving wowwiki if gets adopted. : /
12:06.20Adysmight be i didnt sleep yet
12:06.31Adysjust revert me if im going blind please
12:06.35Zeallol
12:06.37*** join/#wowwiki Montag_ (i=Montag@buic010-e1101-dhcp120.bu.edu)
12:06.40Adysand ffs
12:06.40Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/WoW-Handwerk
12:06.43Zealnah, you sorta half did things was all :p
12:06.48Zeallo Montag_
12:06.49Zeallol
12:06.56Zealbye Montagg :p
12:07.33Zealdelete?
12:07.45Zealits a stub, its in german, the site is in german.. serves no purpose.
12:07.57Zeal*it'll be in german
12:08.32Zealhad to change the codec hex for the wow cinematics ofc..
12:08.40Zealstupid thing..
12:09.22Zealtested out matching the music i planned to footage
12:09.23Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Fansites&curid=12782&diff=500638&oldid=500635&rcid=411258 FFS n2 does he do it on purpose or what
12:09.28Zealworked perfectly :)
12:10.20Zeali'd remove, let him know it belongs on the german wiki, as being in english, it doesn't serve the needs of visitors
12:10.29Zeal*in german
12:10.47Zealthose who want german only sites, can go to the german wiki for it..
12:10.47*** join/#wowwiki nilsh (n=grimthar@cF5A25AC1.dhcp.bluecom.no)
12:10.52Zealwait.. is there a german wiki? :s
12:11.02Adysyes
12:11.09Zealhad to double check :P
12:11.10Zealkk
12:11.13Adyswow-wiki.net
12:11.16Zealwell yeah.. what i said :P
12:11.26Adyshad to move stuff there from wowwiki yesterday afternoon..
12:11.34Zeal: /
12:11.37Adysfucking hell, registering was a pain
12:11.58Zealrofl
12:12.03Zealtry registering on a korean site..
12:14.28Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Hate_Guild how am i supposed to handle that..
12:14.35Adysnon author claims a guild is dead
12:14.40Adysand sd it ><
12:15.58Adysmeh sod it ill just leave it
12:16.08Adyslunch and bed for me, ill be back later
12:16.41Afkdysand Im copyrighting the name of Afkdys today, too ><
12:17.38*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
12:19.51Zealrofl
12:19.52Zealnice
12:19.55Zealttyl
12:24.31Zealyay, knew it would happen in time :P
12:29.40*** join/#wowwiki Kaso_ (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
12:45.33*** join/#wowwiki fdgfg (n=zeal@host81-155-1-21.range81-155.btcentralplus.com)
12:45.33Zealfucking shit ass network..
12:45.36Zealyay, i can't access ns until i register
12:45.41Zealthus ghost = useless
12:46.06Zealalso if i don't choose an alt nick, i can't stay connected
12:46.36Zealfucking hate this version of ns, and the no pm without register just complicates everything even more..
12:48.45*** join/#wowwiki Kaso (n=Kaso@resnet01.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
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13:23.25*** join/#wowwiki Montagg (i=Montag@buic010-e1101-dhcp120.bu.edu)
13:23.25*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Montagg] by ChanServ
13:54.02Zealwb again Montagg
13:55.41Montaggty Zeal
13:59.26Zeal:)
14:23.41Zealnn all
14:29.04*** join/#wowwiki drin (n=asdf@212.178.199.2)
14:44.09*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (n=Tuqui-tu@smtp.badertv.com)
14:46.47*** join/#wowwiki Wala (n=mudderwa@201.67.130.184)
14:46.54Walahi
14:47.09Walahello?
14:47.43WalaI never used Irc, anyone here?
14:47.52equiraptorYeah.
14:48.06equiraptorLots of people lurk on IRC, though.
14:48.08Walahi!
14:48.13equiraptorHello.
14:48.27WalaI'm trying to edit a page, there are several typos on it
14:48.35Walabut I can't edit it like the others I did
14:48.51WalaIt's the Cenarion expedition page (http://www.wowwiki.com/Cenarion_Expedition), the rewards are bugged
14:48.57Walabut I don't know how to fix it
14:49.01Walacould you tell me how to do it?
14:49.11equiraptorYou're logged in on the  website, right?
14:49.31Walayes
14:49.41equiraptorHrm. I dunno. I'm waiting for the page to load.
14:50.22equiraptorDarnit, it doesn't look like it wants to load.
14:50.27*** join/#wowwiki Tuqui-tuqui (n=Tuqui-tu@smtp.badertv.com)
14:50.43Walahttp://www.wowwiki.com/Cenarion_Expedition
14:50.46Walatry now
14:50.52Walamaybe it was the ) on the end of it
14:51.30Waladid it work now?
14:52.34equiraptorIt's not the link
14:52.44equiraptorWoWWiki has a pretty heavy load, and my work does some odd things with the connection.
14:52.51equiraptorSo the page just doesn't always load for me.
14:53.02Walahmm
14:53.05Walait's a big page
14:53.13equiraptorHrm.
14:53.31equiraptorIt loaded for me, and I was able to reach the edit page.
14:53.33Wala17 pagedown's on my browser
14:53.37equiraptorWhen you try to edit it, what happens?
14:53.45Walalook at the end of it
14:53.48Walathe exalted rewards
14:54.22equiraptorAh, I see.
14:54.41equiraptorSo what do you do to try to edit it, and what happens?
14:54.56WalaI don't know how to edit
14:55.06Walait don't shows a box of info to change, just the name of it
14:55.15Walahow do I fix the problem on the layout?
14:55.22Walais there anywhere else that I have to change?
14:55.27Walalike a template or something?
14:56.17equiraptorUmmmmm....
14:56.21equiraptorI'm thinking.
14:56.28equiraptorHonestly, I'm not very familiar with the wiki.
14:56.36equiraptorI hang out or IRC because I love IRC. ;) But I'm thinking.
14:57.09Walaheh
14:57.33Walathe list on the right, it's the people on the irc?
14:57.44equiraptorProbably.
14:57.53equiraptorThat kind of stuff varies depending on your IRC client and your settings.
14:57.59equiraptorMy IRC client doesn't have a list on the right.
14:58.05Walahmm
14:58.17Walanever used IRC before, I'm using mIRC
14:58.26equiraptorMy guess is that those items are appearing oddly there because only part of their information is listed in the WoWWiki database.
14:58.51Tuqui-tuquiWala
14:58.51Tuqui-tuquiyes
14:58.53WalaI think so too
14:58.55equiraptorOr because it's not entered correctly.
14:59.00equiraptorWoot! My brain works.
14:59.05Tuqui-tuquiwoot!
14:59.16Walathere are like a hundred templates listed on the edit of the rewards
14:59.18equiraptorSo, to fix that, you'd need to fix the data on the items.
14:59.33Walabut I have no idea on how to edit/fix it
14:59.33Wala>.<
14:59.43equiraptorLook at the differences between http://www.wowwiki.com/Earthwarden and http://www.wowwiki.com/Windcaller%27s_Orb
15:00.10equiraptorThat looks like more a formatting issue than anything else, though.
15:01.20Walawell, I must go back to work
15:01.25WalaI'll take a closer look at it later tonight
15:01.29Walathanks a lot tough :D
15:06.01Montaggequiraptor: Looks like someone didn't set the vertical-align properly on that table. Let me fix it fast.
15:06.06MontaggWas that the only problem?
15:07.00equiraptorThe main problem wala was talking about was the lack of item information in http://www.wowwiki.com/Cenarion_Expedition, in the exalted section.
15:07.23equiraptorThe Orb was just one example of a problem item. I haven't looked at all the items yet.
15:08.02MontaggHm. Okay.
15:11.32MontaggSlowWiki...
15:11.43equiraptorYeah. I was running into that earlier. :/
15:14.06MontaggHurray for over-templatization.
15:14.49Kirkburn|afkYarrrr!
15:15.42Kirkburn|afkFor god's sake, my delivery was carded /again/
15:15.46MontaggWe better fuckin' get one. This is getting ridiculous.
15:16.34Kirkburn|afkOddly, the telephone number I've been given isn't for a company, and doesn't sound like the delivery person either
15:16.36MontaggIf we don't, I definitely suggest we do a couple things to relieve the strain on the wiki until we do get one, like convert templatized tool-tips into something light weight and stable.
15:17.06MontaggKirkburn|afk: Have you called it?
15:17.21Kirkburn|afkYeah, got an answer phone for a lady called Sarah
15:17.40Kirkburn|afkGonna try again in a few mins
15:18.05Kirkburn|afkCan't think what I could leave as a message ... I mean, I have no idea who the person is :/
15:18.27sancuswhat does 'carded' mean
15:18.39sancuswhen referring to deliveries? :P
15:19.06Kirkburn|afkCard thru the door saying "we tried to deliver, but couldn't. Please blah blah blah rhubarb rhubarb..."
15:19.10sancusoh
15:19.10sancuslol
15:19.15sancuswell be there newb
15:19.29Kirkburn|afkI normally am!
15:22.43MontaggI'm seriously considering just not editing at all until we get an upgrade.
15:22.59Kirkburn|afk:/
15:23.12MontaggI have to block out like ten minutes of time to fix spelling mistakes. =c)
15:25.32Kirkburn|afklol
15:25.55Kirkburn|afkYes, always remember to Select All and Copy before making big edits ;)
15:26.26Kirkburn|afkffs, what is it with pretty much every german website in existence. They ALL have the same bloody popup
15:26.54Kirkburn|afk(and all of them do not close properly, and use your click to open a new page)
15:27.43Kirkburn|afkIt may occur for you on this site as an example (click one of the links) - http://wowmaps.de/
15:29.02Kirkburn|afkI just find it unbelievable that german-speaker put up with that crap. Many of the sites also have popups built in.
15:29.08Kirkburn|afk*speakers
15:30.40Kirkburn|afkMontagg, btw, agreed abuot Gsdkp
15:30.51MontaggCool.
15:31.28MontaggKirkburn|afk: Does NPOV have information about advertising?
15:31.36Kirkburn|afkSo long as he doesn't do it to every page (which he hasn't been), fine by me. Especially since on most of those pages, they didn't yet have the loot.
15:31.52Kirkburn|afkGood question, shall have a look
15:34.25Kirkburn|afk"Hi, this is Sarah. Can't get to the phone right now" etc etc ... that's what I call an odd message for arranging a delivery with. Hmm. I mean, I guess the delivery person could be her, but sounds odd.
15:35.50MontaggKirkburn|afk: Definitely sounds like a cell phone or something. The company might give them phones for work and the employees just use them as personal phones, too.
15:36.00Kirkburn|afkYeah, it's a mobile number
15:36.28MontaggBy the way, I made a post on Village pump about how to reduce the load on the wiki temporarily if we don't get an upgrade.
15:36.37Kirkburn|afkI saw. And then I couldn't access it.
15:36.43Montagg><
15:37.02MontaggIf I were a new editor, I wouldn't be for very long at this point.
15:37.17Kirkburn|afkheh
15:38.33MontaggWW:NPOV does mention not using "self-promotion." Nothing specific to advertising. Although I feel like I've read it somewhere, anyway...
15:39.31Kirkburn|afkMight be a guideline?
15:39.46MontaggMight be.
15:40.25Kirkburn|afkSide topic - we should go over the templates we have an make sure they're as simple as possible. We have so many atm (and I think some of them are overused)
15:40.33*** join/#wowwiki Gnarfoz (n=smallbra@unaffiliated/gnarfoz)
15:40.40Gnarfozfrom within function "LinksUpdate::invalidatePages". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (localhost)". <-- hm? Oo
15:40.52Gnarfozgetting this at www.wowwiki.com/Aldor
15:42.08MontaggI think many of our templates very deep, in that they call other templates, which in turn call more templates. Good reuse of code, but it's making the server work it's ass off.
15:42.16Montagg^many of our templates are
15:42.54*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-44.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
15:42.55Kirkburn|afkvlad_, we're just getting WoWWiki has an error again and again atm
15:43.27MontaggI was just editing Cenarion Expedition, and when you're looking at the edit page, you notice at the bottom the absurd list of pulled-in code. Mostly from tooltips, but the list is huge.
15:44.15Kirkburn|afkWe didn't get this kind of effect before, though :/
15:44.41MontaggRight, but our tooltips are more complex now. They actually do processing instead of just text formatting.
15:44.46Montagg^our templates are more complex
15:45.00Kirkburn|afkBtw, UK PS3 pre-orders if anyone wants one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0007SV734?tag2=britishgaming-21
15:45.30Kirkburn|afkGnarfoz, works here. Now. Eventually.
15:45.53Gnarfozhm, not yet, for me
15:47.10*** join/#wowwiki Bagginsww (n=Valiento@adsl-69-226-99-154.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)
15:47.23Kirkburn|afkArgh. I give up for now. Must be high load atm for some reason.
15:47.39sancusthere you go
15:47.58Kirkburn|afksancus, what's going down?
15:48.09sancusno idea, I restarted everything though
15:48.10Kirkburn|afk(unfortunate turn of phrase)
15:48.23Kirkburn|afkOh, cool, thanks
15:48.36sancushm
15:48.40sancuslooks like you guys broke that aldor page, tho
15:48.54Kirkburn|afkFine for me ...
15:48.58sancusoh
15:49.05sancusnm, just had to refresh it like 4 times
15:49.18Kirkburn|afk:)
15:49.29Kirkburn|afkSpeedy wiki now
15:51.05Kirkburn|afkStill, gonna go and read PC Gamer. They gave TBC 87% which I think is fair
15:51.14Kirkburn|afkAnd morning Bagginsww
15:51.20MontaggKirkburn|afk: What did they say was wrong with it?
15:51.31Kirkburn|afkNot groundbreaking
15:52.05Kirkburn|afkOh and lack of new stuff from 20-60
15:53.05Montagg<PROTECTED>
15:53.10*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-44.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
15:53.16Kirkburn|afkThey changed rest XP
15:53.17Kirkburn|afk??
15:53.34MontaggYou just get less of it for the amount of time you don't play.
15:53.47Kirkburn|afkInteresting
15:53.58Kirkburn|afkShall read the review now bbl with more :)
15:54.22MontaggI levelled a warlock to 60 on my friend's account between September and December, and I wouldn't play for maybe 36-48 hours, come back and have a half to 3/4 of level (maybe more) full of rest XP.
15:54.39MontaggNow, I do the same thing and I only get about a quarter to a third of a level.
15:55.14Kirkburn|afkI can't decide whether to level a new char
15:55.33Kirkburn|afkI think I'll get a BE and draenei to 20, then see how I feel
15:55.59Tuqui-tuqui:o
15:56.06Tuqui-tuquiI would never betray my lovely mage
15:56.10Tuqui-tuqui<3 to the max
15:56.19Kirkburn|afkHeh, well my warlock dude is already 70
15:56.28Kirkburn|afkI do have a 42 pally to level someday
15:56.39Tuqui-tuquiIm trying to see if I can get to 60 fast enough to join a horde raid to open AQ :D
15:56.45Kirkburn|afkRest of my chars are 21 and under
15:56.59Kirkburn|afklol
15:57.04Kirkburn|afkGo you!
15:57.13Tuqui-tuqui^_^
15:57.28Kirkburn|afkSo you can open AQ ... and then never go ;)
15:57.58Tuqui-tuqui:<
15:58.01Tuqui-tuquihehe
15:58.04Tuqui-tuquimeh
15:58.07Tuqui-tuquiim all about world content
15:58.09Tuqui-tuquiactually
15:58.15Tuqui-tuquiI want that damned bug mount
16:07.38*** join/#wowwiki Seracht (n=Seracht@64.94.46.18)
16:07.41Serachthey
16:07.43Serachtquick question guys
16:07.51Serachtdo you know if there is a mirror for downloading BC?
16:07.58SerachtI got the game via online upgrade but torrents :'(
16:08.09Tuqui-tuquihmm....
16:08.16Tuqui-tuquiI think Fileplanet has the game
16:08.21Tuqui-tuquioh wait
16:08.28Tuqui-tuquiyou mean something you dont have to pay for?
16:08.30SerachtTBC
16:08.36Serachtyes if possible
16:08.41Serachtand fileplanet has wow I think
16:08.42Tuqui-tuquicant help you there ^_^ sorry
16:08.58Kirkburn|afkYes, you can download it from Blizz
16:09.23Kirkburn|afkBoth Us and EU sites have info about it now afaik
16:09.48SerachtKirkburn|afk its via blizzard downloader aka torrents
16:09.53Serachtand my ISP throttles
16:09.59Kirkburn|afkOh right, I see
16:10.12Kirkburn|afkChange ISP ;)
16:10.17Tuqui-tuquihehe
16:10.25Kirkburn|afkNote sure then
16:10.27Kirkburn|afk*not
16:10.45Kirkburn|afkWhich client do you need, US?
16:10.49Serachtyes sir
16:11.09Kirkburn|afkhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_mirrors#Full_Client_Download
16:11.21Kirkburn|afkThe Stormrager one might work for you?
16:11.28Serachthmm
16:11.29Serachttrying
16:11.33Serachtgive me a sec
16:11.45Serachtbrb 2 mins
16:11.48Serachtgotta turn off the vpn
16:12.13Kirkburn|afkHmm, appears to require registration
16:12.32Kirkburn|afkIn any case, beyond the Mirrors page, I can't help futher :/
16:12.44*** join/#wowwiki Arog (n=Seracht@CPE001839ea82bb-CM0018c0b36d56.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
16:12.45Arogok
16:12.47Arog<-- seracht
16:12.53Arogbut anyways, the stormrager one is 1.16 gb
16:13.01Arogthe torrents I see on torrentspy, are 2.4 gb
16:17.10Arogdo you guys think if I get the TBC repair.exe
16:17.18Arogit will 'repair' all the files
16:17.20MontaggAnyone else noticed a decrease in rest xp accumulation?
16:20.48Arogomg
16:20.49Arogfinally
16:20.52Arog500 kb/sec
16:20.54Arog:D
16:20.58ArogThanks Kirkburn|afk
16:21.30Kirkburn|afkwoot
16:21.56Kirkburn|afk1.16 is kinda low, you'll have to find out :)
16:24.58Arogya
16:25.01Arogzipped probably
16:25.46Aroglike insane zipped up
16:25.58Arogso what servers are you guys on
16:26.13Aroghonestly....how long does ti take someone to Ping Timeout on this server lol
16:27.12*** join/#wowwiki dok3Dal (n=dok@AStrasbourg-251-1-65-44.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr)
16:31.14Serachtfinally
16:41.30MontaggApparently there's supposed to be a rest XP penalty for having more than one character per server (or per account, I'm not sure). I'm going to test the exact numbers over the next week.
16:41.46MontaggAt least by server, because I only have access to one account.
16:42.41SerachtMontagg I doubt it lol
16:43.52MontaggSeracht: Well, I've noticed a drop in the amount of rest xp I've accumulated from pre-BC. I'm not sure if there's been a nerf to the conversion rate or something else, so I'm going to test this penalty.
16:43.57MontaggIt
16:44.04Montagg^It will test the conversion rate as well.
16:45.24Gnarfoz<Arog> honestly....how long does ti take someone to Ping Timeout on this server lol <-- quite long :>
17:19.32*** join/#wowwiki Wala (n=mudderwa@201.67.229.217)
17:19.44Walahi
17:20.18Walaanyone here?
17:20.40equiraptorMoo.
17:21.00Wala. /ponder
17:21.39equiraptorIn some clients, you can use /say to say something that starts with a slash.
17:21.51equiraptorso /say /laugh lets me....
17:21.53equiraptor/laugh
17:22.13equiraptorYou can also use /me to do actions.... /me laughs gives:
17:22.47Wala^^
17:22.49Walathanks
17:23.03equiraptor:)
17:24.04Serachtw00t
17:24.06Seracht10 minutes till bc is done
17:25.00Wala?
17:25.15Walasorry?
17:25.27Serachtnothiing heh
17:25.43Serachtwhich patches do I need to dl after I install BC?
17:26.01Wala2.0.1 up to 2.0.7
17:26.09Wala2.0.3 is big, like 200mb
17:26.13Walaor more
17:26.18Serachtso its originally at 2.0.1?
17:26.18Walamaybe 300mb
17:26.22Walano
17:26.23Serachtso I do not need to get 1.12.x -> 2.0.1
17:26.24*** join/#wowwiki Dave (n=chatzill@ip68-13-129-151.om.om.cox.net)
17:26.24Walait's 2.0.0
17:26.28Serachtor do I need that
17:26.47Serachtoh wait I get it
17:26.48Serachtthanks
17:26.48Walayou're downloading wow normal or bc?
17:26.54Walabc is already with 1.12.x
17:28.02Serachti have wow 1.11
17:28.05Serachtgoing to instal BC
17:28.08Serachtwhich will take me 2.0.0
17:28.18SerachtI am downloading 2.0.0 -> 2.0.3   then downloading 2.0.3 -> 2.0.7
17:31.40Walaahm
17:31.41Walano
17:31.46Walayou're downloading BC
17:31.53WalaBC <> Wow normal
17:32.18WalaBC isn't a upgrate do wow
17:32.22Walait's an entire new installation
17:32.32Walayou'll will understand after log on it
17:39.30Serachtum ok
17:41.36*** join/#wowwiki infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:41.36*** topic/#wowwiki is Discuss all wiki issues here! Channel info: www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:IRC | RC list: [[ WoWWiki:RC ]] | UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge | Happy Valentine's Day!
17:44.09*** join/#wowwiki infobot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:44.09*** topic/#wowwiki is Discuss all wiki issues here! Channel info: www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:IRC | RC list: [[ WoWWiki:RC ]] | UI questions? Join #wowi-lounge | Happy Valentine's Day!
17:58.00Serachtum
17:58.01Serachtsomething is wrong
17:58.07SerachtI downloaded the 1.x -> 2.0.1
17:58.09Serachtbut.....
17:58.16Serachtit won't ugprade saying it has to be 1.12 and mine is 1.11
17:58.19Serachthow can I upgrade now
18:06.35*** join/#wowwiki Gryphen (n=gryphon@mail.alexdevco.com)
18:06.35*** mode/#wowwiki [+o Gryphen] by ChanServ
18:19.31Serachtnever mind :)
18:56.13*** join/#wowwiki Laraul (i=spoof@ip72-200-90-128.tc.ph.cox.net)
19:17.17*** join/#wowwiki Adys (n=Miranda@APoitiers-256-1-48-212.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:24.49*** join/#wowwiki nemppu (i=nemppu@a91-154-10-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
19:28.53MontaggAnyone on who has a WoW account with very few characters created on it?
19:31.48AdysYea montagg
19:32.03Adysonly 4 on main serv and about 3 more on other servs
19:32.11MontaggAdys: I'm trying to test whether or not the number of characters you have on your account affects rest XP accumulation.
19:32.12Adysdeleted half of them few days ago to cleanup><
19:32.19AdysoO
19:32.24Adysit doesnt, why would it?
19:32.39Tuqui-tuqui....
19:32.49MontaggIt's on the Rest article, but I also feel like rest XP accumulation is slow compared to pre-BC.
19:33.07Tuqui-tuquiooohhh
19:33.09MontaggRight now I'm testing if the amount of characters you have on an individual server affects it.
19:33.17Tuqui-tuquispeaking on XP
19:33.26Tuqui-tuquiwhen I reach 60
19:33.31Tuqui-tuquiI dont have TBC yet
19:33.36Tuqui-tuquiwill my XP keep accumulating
19:33.38MontaggAdys: Can you do me a favor? Can you pick a PvP server you have no characters on, make an undead character, and log it off in Brill?
19:33.42Tuqui-tuquior will it stop at 60
19:33.46AdysSure
19:34.04Tuqui-tuquimake sure you dont get killed!
19:34.18AdysThough I cant see how it can technically affect it tbh :P
19:34.21Adysomw
19:34.22MontaggAdys: Can you also check back every 8 hours or so and see how much rest xp it has?
19:34.27Tuqui-tuqui0.o
19:34.54MontaggThe article mentions that there's a slight penalty in order to hinder people from using rest XP to power level two characters at once.
19:34.57AdysOkies ill try to remember that :P
19:35.08MontaggAdys: Awesome. You rock.
19:35.24AdysAgamaggan
19:35.58MontaggSo that's your 8th character?
19:36.09AdysI have to check
19:36.25Adysfirst char on this server
19:37.23MontaggHow many do you have on your account total now?
19:38.00AdysNo idea, Ill tell you when I log off my char with this name that is purely awesome
19:38.05MontaggK.
19:38.11Adys"Restedxpftw"
19:38.11MontaggHeh, what's that?
19:38.16MontaggHehe.
19:38.24MontaggI have two characters on two servers named Testrestxp.
19:38.50Adyslol, Bayne
19:39.09Adysjust as I got out of deathknell rare mob lvl 10 :[
19:40.23MontaggAwww, owned.
19:40.23Adysright ill check at 04.40 how much rested xp i have
19:40.23MontaggYou rock. Thanks so much for your help.
19:40.23Adysnp
19:40.46MontaggIf you're off by a bit, that's fine. Or if the time is just unreasonable, like in the middle of the night. Just record the exact time you do check.
19:41.19Adysdont worry
19:41.21AdysI just woke up :P
19:41.29Adys11th character total counting french and german realms
19:41.37MontaggSame account, though?
19:41.47Adysmake it 10th
19:41.47Adysaye
19:41.56MontaggK. And what time is it there right now?
19:42.01Adys20.41
19:42.06*** join/#wowwiki KrmtDfrog (n=somewher@c-68-38-199-105.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
19:42.39MontaggAll right. Awesome.
19:45.50KrmtDfrogRequest #1
19:45.58KrmtDfrogmove the search box further up pls
19:46.08KrmtDfroghaving to hit pg down to get to the search feature is :(
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19:52.52jinxedyo
19:54.31Adysalo
20:04.15jinxedso i found an error on one of the pages.. and i dont know how to fix it ;x
20:04.26jinxedhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Enchantment
20:04.42jinxedpresence of might according to thottbot allakhazam is 10stam/10def/15block value
20:05.06jinxedwowwiki reports it as 10/7/15
20:07.27Adyshttp://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Popularpages
20:07.35Adysdingdong, comparison is third now
20:33.32Kasojinxed you there?
20:34.48Kasowhat you need to do is click on the link at the top right "create account" then sign up for an account, when you've done that return to the enchantment page, and click the link "Edit this page" then scroll down the textbox until you see that part that is errored, then correct the error then hit save
20:37.18LaraulHello There
20:44.52jinxedi did all that, i just could find the part that was error once i clicked edit
20:45.03jinxedcouldnt*
20:45.16jinxedhad an error*
20:45.20jinxedjeez i cant type ;x
20:46.37jinxedlets try again:  I managed everything but finding the error once i had clicked the edit page button.
20:48.34Kasopress Ctr-F type in "+10 Stamina, +7 Defense, +15 Shield Block" and hit enter
20:48.40Kasoit should take you to the right point
20:53.57|FF|Im2good4uhm does int still increase the rate of gaining weapon skills ?
20:54.45equiraptorhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Enchantment/Tables/Armor/Head <-- that may be the page you need to edit, jinxed.
20:57.38Laraul$wait(3)
20:57.57Laraul$wait(3)
21:01.54equiraptorI've restarted gnawing on my hand.
21:02.02Tuqui-tuquiI blame the american school system
21:02.09equiraptorBut I don't think that's because of the WoWWiki slowness.
21:02.32equiraptorOh, hey, I have my mechanic's home address now.
21:02.37equiraptorMWAHAHAHAHAHA
21:02.42Tuqui-tuquiok...
21:02.46Tuqui-tuquistalker....
21:02.47Tuqui-tuquieek!
21:02.58equiraptorHey, he gave me the paper.
21:03.04jinxedfixed the text
21:03.07Tuqui-tuquiyou even mad Idylla quit
21:03.11equiraptorIt's the proof of insurance on the car I'm buying from him.
21:03.13jinxedhow do i fix the graphics
21:03.13jinxedhttp://www.wowwiki.com/Presence_of_Might
21:03.22jinxedthe picutgre
21:03.24jinxedpicture*
21:03.36jinxederm nvm
21:04.11equiraptorDang. He wins. The address isn't in google maps.
21:05.03equiraptorAh hah! Mapquest found it for me.
21:05.15Tuqui-tuquimake sure its the same state
21:05.22Tuqui-tuquionce I got an address in Montana
21:05.49equiraptorOh, it is.
21:05.59equiraptorIn fact, three of my close friends live in the same neighborhood.
21:06.12Tuqui-tuquiI was wondring why I got a 45 hour commute
21:06.13equiraptorOne of them may even live about a block away, if I'm remembering right.
21:06.18Tuqui-tuquiwhen Manhattan is 20 minutes from me
21:16.18equiraptorHaha. My mechanic lives 3 blocks away from a close friend of mine.
21:16.46equiraptorAnd another ~15 blocks from another friend, and then probably 2 miles from a third.
21:16.56equiraptorThat neighborhood has a high equi-friends concentration.
21:30.10*** join/#wowwiki Dragofix (i=Dragofix@dsl-hkigw8-fe10f800-107.dhcp.inet.fi)
21:45.12karatThere should be a picture of the heroic portal
21:45.15karatunder heroic difficulty
21:52.05Gnarfozis it different?
21:55.59Adyshttp://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=140954162&pageNo=1&sid=1#0 hm
22:03.04*** join/#wowwiki Karrion (n=kieron@corp-gw01.imrworldwide.com)
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22:27.17*** join/#wowwiki Sky2042 (n=rawsonat@c-24-21-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
22:27.29Sky2042Hmm, question someone
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22:28.22Sky2042For the Onyxia key quest chain, would you suggest adding all the steps in at the bottom of the page, or only those which are technically considered part of the chain?
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22:42.01jinxedsky2042, you might want to add that if you discard your neck piece you can go get another.
22:52.16Sky2042sholdn't that go on the item page? ;P
22:53.05KarrionMontagg: guess who's at it again http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Blood_knight&curid=46241&diff=501400&oldid=498717
22:54.02Sky2042LOL
22:54.07Sky2042He just doesn't quit.
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23:13.51MontaggHe'll quit.
23:19.10MontaggAngry ogre's comments moved to his talk page. Thanks Karrion.
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