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| 12:49.15 | Ennea | so, some changes are happening in regards to freenode staff that may warrant a move to another network: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 |
| 13:01.03 | AcidWeb | Maybe it is time to finally leave IRC... |
| 13:01.13 | cirdan | nooo |
| 13:01.18 | cirdan | irc is the best |
| 13:01.57 | Ennea | it's never time to leave irc ;p |
| 13:02.17 | cirdan | im sure debian and the other large distros will have a plan. it's really great having almost all open source projects under one network |
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| 13:21.02 | znf | eh, I mean, I don't know any of the staffers, this looks like a big panic |
| 13:23.36 | Ennea | i don't either, and it may as well be, but generally speaking: an entity that was not in control of the network before now gaining control of it due to owning the domains, and all (supposedly) staff leaving freenode as a consequence.. is not a super nice thing |
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| 19:03.37 | oxez | cirdan: debian is on oftc, with a bunch of other big projects as well I think. |
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| 22:33.46 | znf | honestly, I'm curious how server operators will react |
| 22:33.56 | znf | as in, the people hosting the actual nodes |
| 22:34.45 | znf | as far as I remember, servers are being run by individual organizations, isn't that still the case? |
| 22:50.46 | Gnarfoz | it is |
| 22:51.05 | Gnarfoz | (but administered by staff, which has now been replaced) |
| 22:51.13 | Gnarfoz | freenode staff, that is |
| 22:53.12 | Mr_Rabies | awfully brave of them to all resign instead of try to fight for their property |
| 22:53.42 | znf | Gnarfoz, yup, I understand that - question is, what will it happen with these servers? |
| 22:54.06 | Gnarfoz | this guy's people will probably run them for now? |
| 22:55.01 | Gnarfoz | Mr_Rabies: debatable that it was anyone's property to begin with; also, legal costs. |
| 22:55.40 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i agree 100% but if you're unwilling to fight for something that means it wasn't yours to begin with |
| 22:56.22 | Gnarfoz | unwilling? that's harsh |
| 22:57.06 | Mr_Rabies | if you made no effort to do so whatsoever it means you were unwilling |
| 22:57.15 | Gnarfoz | but that's not the truth. |
| 22:57.20 | Mr_Rabies | like most stuff in the free software movement, when the SHTF everyone just scatters |
| 22:57.42 | Gnarfoz | I'd recommend reading some more of the various resignation letters and associated IRC logs (I know, that's a lot of work) |
| 22:58.51 | Gnarfoz | it most certainly reads like they, in the form of "tomaw" did try to do the thing that matters: take control of the DNS domain way from this person |
| 23:00.27 | Gnarfoz | but since that's the one thing they legally own, that gives them the opportunity to use their large-ish financial power to turn this into a life-destroying lawyer show |
| 23:01.00 | Gnarfoz | (they being "freenode ltd." owned by Andrew Lee in that last sentence) |
| 23:01.54 | Mr_Rabies | the thing that matters seems to be to take this guy to court and that probably could have been done months ago if they let their userbase know about it and start some crowd funding or something |
| 23:02.28 | Gnarfoz | take them to court for what? as it turns out, the previous head of freenode staff sold "everything" to this guy about 3 years ago |
| 23:03.16 | Mr_Rabies | oh, well that makes it pretty black and white then lol |
| 23:03.33 | Mr_Rabies | it's been andrew lee's network since then |
| 23:03.46 | Gnarfoz | it's been andrew lee's domain since then, at least |
| 23:04.05 | Mr_Rabies | whatever the previous head of staff sold to him is his unless there's some sort of dispute over it in court |
| 23:04.08 | Gnarfoz | I'm not confident "the network" is a legal concept that can be owned, per se |
| 23:04.57 | Gnarfoz | either way, yes, and this was done without the knowledge or consent of the other staff at the time. it was done under the pretense that this was necessary to run some "freenode #live" events, whatever those might be |
| 23:05.44 | Mr_Rabies | if they don't have a legal leg to stand on then yeah they just need to do what they did and surrender everything to him and move onto something else if they want |
| 23:06.09 | Gnarfoz | ultimately, that is the result |
| 23:06.12 | znf | Gnarfoz, who's to say the suppliers won't withdraw their nodes? |
| 23:06.18 | Gnarfoz | nobody is, znf |
| 23:06.20 | znf | and re-donate them to libra.chat or whatever |
| 23:06.20 | znf | :P |
| 23:06.33 | Gnarfoz | but this guy certainly can afford the 200$ for a couple of servers a month. |
| 23:06.37 | Mr_Rabies | many of them most likely will pull their nodes off the network if this is as one side has said |
| 23:06.39 | znf | that's obvious |
| 23:08.02 | Gnarfoz | I wouldn't want to be staff on a network owned by the "crown prince of Korea" who's also known for hiring the MtGox guy :P |
| 23:09.28 | Gnarfoz | and offering bribes to former freenode staff to join them |
| 23:09.43 | Gnarfoz | and doing similar things to other networks like snoonet |
| 23:10.29 | Gnarfoz | eh, read the various logs linked in some of the resignation letters; the FAQ znf linked is as good a jumping off point as any of them |
| 23:11.13 | znf | I didn't link anything! |
| 23:11.16 | Gnarfoz | legally, I'd say it's sadly pretty clear cut; morally, it's WTF³ |
| 23:11.21 | znf | yup |
| 23:11.31 | Gnarfoz | true, it was Ennea, my bad |
| 23:13.01 | znf | you made me look trough my history, thought I did link something and forgot |
| 23:13.10 | Gnarfoz | poor you! :D |
| 23:13.42 | Gnarfoz | I mean, he claims to have invested "millions", yet the financials for Frenode Ltd. do not reflect this whatsover. Also, there's apparently some dispute about obligatory filings not having been made for that company? He is the sole director of that company. Yet he claims that it was freenode staff who should have made those filings? They don't work for him or that Ltd. at all |
| 23:14.04 | Gnarfoz | (he seems to be under some different impression) |
| 23:14.35 | Gnarfoz | it'd probably be very entertaining if I was drunk; sober, it's just sad :P |
| 23:19.48 | znf | Yeah, I fail to see how running an IRC Network costs "millions" in any way |
| 23:20.20 | znf | Granted, I believe Freenode has it's own IRCd, but feature wise, I don't recall anything new in the last few years |
| 23:20.47 | Mr_Rabies | i mean it certainly could, you could make running a gumball machine cost millions if you were particularly bad at it |
| 23:20.54 | znf | Last commit on the github repo was in 2019 |
| 23:21.01 | Mr_Rabies | like sending it up on the space shuttle for the ISS crew |
| 23:22.27 | Mr_Rabies | er i'm a bit behind on that reference |
| 23:22.35 | Mr_Rabies | sending it up on a spacex rocket |
| 23:23.54 | Mr_Rabies | sounds like the person everyone should really be throwing under the bus is the previous head of freenode staff for selling it if anything |
| 23:33.24 | Gnarfoz | but spacex is cheap! make that a ULA rocket. :P |
| 23:35.01 | Gnarfoz | znf: that's apparently also part of it; ircd-seven is a set of patches for charybdis, which a former (even before this) freenode staffer wrote? and they were trying to turn that into "Solanum" in cooperation with people from OFTC. which, if that is even a thing, is a "competitor" to freenode |
| 23:35.25 | Mr_Rabies | hopefully this is a learning experience to many people, not only the freenode staff |
| 23:35.27 | znf | confusing! |
| 23:35.35 | Gnarfoz | confusing, and dumb as hell :D |
| 23:35.54 | Mr_Rabies | this will almost certainly one day happen with almost any community that moved to something like discord etc |
| 23:36.30 | Gnarfoz | at the latest, when either Discord disappears, or gets bought by someone else and the terms change drastically |
| 23:36.48 | Gnarfoz | I mean, the guy keeps repeating claims that all he really wanted to do is "decentralize freenode", whatever the hell that means |
| 23:37.14 | Gnarfoz | the only thing that wasn't already decentralized was the stupid Freenode Ltd. that he himself helped bring into being |
| 23:37.27 | Mr_Rabies | or discord just decides to start cashing in on all that user data they have, which they assure us they don't currently do |
| 23:37.45 | Gnarfoz | let's trust the, because they say they're trustworthy. /s |
| 23:37.49 | Gnarfoz | *them |
| 23:38.27 | Gnarfoz | same kind of deal as with this guy who apparently said as recently as 2 months ago that he has no intention of interfering with freenode operations. :P |
| 23:38.51 | Gnarfoz | it's multiple levels of fucked up and I hope the result isn't *more* homogenization on Discord |
| 23:39.21 | Gnarfoz | (I mean, sure, a more modern platform couldn't hurt, but I'm not convinced it needs to be Discord :P) |
| 23:39.53 | Mr_Rabies | anyone moving their community exclusively to discord is just lining themselves up for another exact repeat where they have to move their community again |
| 23:40.17 | Gnarfoz | IRCv3 is in the works and would move IRC closer to that, feature-wise. Using something like Quassel already makes it quite similar, except for editing & rich text (features not everyone wants, aither) |
| 23:40.41 | Mr_Rabies | and honestly, reading the various reports and the libera chat site, i don't really trust that to be neutral either |
| 23:41.15 | Mr_Rabies | it definitely seems the group leaving has some ultierior motives of their own at the moment and i don't know or have a single connection to either side, so i don't reaally care |
| 23:41.53 | Gnarfoz | well, I doubt anyone has a great chance of looking good in such a heated situation. but it kind of feels like a wowwiki/wowpedia moment :P |
| 23:42.10 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 23:43.03 | Mr_Rabies | i'm willing to let the dust settle and just assume that freenode already has my credentials but as i don't trust a large irc server's security in the first place its credentials are useless anywhere else anyway |
| 23:43.48 | znf | everyone switch to FiSH! |