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| 01:28.18 | Chipzz | 20:55 < Funkeh`> are you not supposed to have the ability to manually add anima to your reservoir? >> so, why would you even do that in the first place? the only reason I can see is saving up the anima for next weeks "Get 1000 anima quest" |
| 01:28.28 | Chipzz | and boy do I have a disappointment for you |
| 01:28.38 | Chipzz | you know what kinda (half) works? |
| 01:28.42 | Elmoe | foxlit: ah just saw the Discord comment, crashing the client seems a bit far fetched given what 4.07 changed... |
| 01:28.51 | Chipzz | having your bags full so the anima is sent to you |
| 01:29.05 | Chipzz | that way you can save anima to deposit later |
| 01:29.17 | Chipzz | but again, and here comes the disappointment: |
| 01:29.24 | znf | The get 1000 anima quest counts when you get the anima in your bags |
| 01:29.26 | znf | not when you deposit :P |
| 01:29.46 | Chipzz | the "Get 1000 anima quest" dcoesn't work that way |
| 01:29.54 | Chipzz | znf: I was getting to that :) |
| 01:29.58 | Chipzz | so what znf says |
| 01:30.07 | znf | literally there's 1 use-case scenario for that |
| 01:30.09 | Chipzz | I tried getting the anima from my mailbox at the start of the reset |
| 01:30.11 | Chipzz | doesn't work |
| 01:30.11 | znf | if you swap covenants :P |
| 01:30.31 | Chipzz | 02:29 < znf> The get 1000 anima quest counts when you get the anima in your bags >> that's false actually |
| 01:30.44 | znf | well, minus the bags part |
| 01:30.45 | znf | wanted to say :P |
| 01:30.53 | Chipzz | or no, it's true |
| 01:31.06 | Chipzz | what is false is "the quest counts when you earn the anima" |
| 01:31.15 | Chipzz | it actually needs to end up in your bags |
| 01:31.27 | Chipzz | having it mailed to you and then getting it from your mailbox doesn't worl |
| 01:31.30 | Chipzz | *work |
| 01:31.46 | Chipzz | so znf was right, my bad |
| 01:32.27 | Chipzz | it counts when you get it in your bags as the quest or WQ reward |
| 01:32.38 | Chipzz | but it doesn't count if you get it in your bags from your mailbox |
| 01:33.06 | Chipzz | Funkeh`: but anyway, if you want to save it for switching covenants, do the following: |
| 01:33.24 | Chipzz | spam-created heirlooms so your bags are full |
| 01:33.37 | Chipzz | do the quests and have the anima mailed to you |
| 01:33.46 | Chipzz | and take the anima from your mailbox after you switch |
| 01:34.20 | znf | or... just buy something from vendor |
| 01:34.23 | znf | swap covenant |
| 01:34.24 | znf | refund |
| 01:34.26 | znf | :) |
| 01:34.35 | Chipzz | heirlooms don't cost anything though :) |
| 01:34.40 | Chipzz | and you don't need to be near a vendor |
| 01:34.49 | Chipzz | (although the repair mount works for buying stuff) |
| 01:34.59 | Chipzz | but heirlooms are easier since they work inside :) |
| 01:35.50 | Chipzz | anyway, I hope that was helpfull :) |
| 01:36.30 | Chipzz | znf: also, heirlooms work while in combat; you can't mount the vendor mount while in combat though |
| 01:41.52 | znf | ...who does that |
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| 04:44.59 | znf | yeah, it crashed: https://i.imgur.com/vm2yVk6.png |
| 04:45.06 | znf | while drag&dropping a troop |
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| 12:51.26 | foxlit | ... so wowup has been installing incorrect /addons/ while updating from ty. |
| 12:51.54 | foxlit | Screwing up that badly is kind of impressive. |
| 13:05.15 | AcidWeb | Well to be fair implementing your api is more complex that implementing support for CF+WoWI+GH combined. |
| 13:05.20 | AcidWeb | Bugs happen. |
| 13:06.39 | AcidWeb | I presume you are already aware you crashing wow with venture plan 4.07? ð |
| 13:16.39 | foxlit | AcidWeb: Well to be fair implementing your api is more complex that implementing support for CF+WoWI+GH combined. << Which part is so complex? |
| 13:19.12 | AcidWeb | Entire design is not human friendly. And it present completely different design as other APIs. |
| 13:19.24 | AcidWeb | So you need to reinvent stuff to support it. |
| 13:19.50 | AcidWeb | But it is better than nothing. |
| 13:22.09 | foxlit | I'm going to be annoyed at that later. Food first. |
| 13:39.54 | foxlit | "Entire design is not human friendly." << I think this is too generic to convey any actual meaning. |
| 13:40.59 | AcidWeb | Flow you implemented is unnecessary convoluted. |
| 13:41.39 | AcidWeb | It feels like this entire methodology used there was added only just to make it unnecessary complex. |
| 13:41.47 | foxlit | it's neither unnecessary nor complex. |
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| 13:42.22 | AcidWeb | Well ¯_(ã)_/¯ |
| 13:42.43 | foxlit | CurseForge may have infinite bandwidth to ship you a list of all addon updates ever released every time you wish to sync. |
| 13:43.06 | foxlit | I don't. And I don't think that's a good design -- it wastes the users' time and bandwidth. |
| 13:43.19 | Chipzz | foxlit: I'm not sure I want to spend effort on discussing this, but like I said before, share your reference implementation... |
| 13:43.43 | AcidWeb | CF not provide any "list of all addon updates ever released every time you wish to sync" |
| 13:44.12 | AcidWeb | And it is heavily cached. |
| 13:44.17 | foxlit | would you like "all addon updates currently released" better? |
| 13:44.18 | Chipzz | foxlit: you claim it's trivial, well, it obviously is not? |
| 13:44.43 | AcidWeb | I'm not going to argue with as I have better things to do. |
| 13:45.37 | foxlit | Fundamentally, all this requires is that you save a dictionary to local storage. |
| 13:45.44 | foxlit | That. is. not. hard. |
| 13:45.58 | Funkeh` | Ah yes, the "you're holding it wrong" approach |
| 13:46.06 | Chipzz | so how come AcidWeb has trouble with it then? |
| 13:46.27 | Chipzz | honestly I don't want to get into a fight with you |
| 13:46.43 | foxlit | I don't know. |
| 13:46.46 | Chipzz | but if one person claims it's trivial and the other says it's not, one of you must be wrong |
| 13:47.07 | AcidWeb | I also don't want to get into a fight with you as I really appreciate you added API at all. |
| 13:47.14 | Chipzz | and like I said, you could resolve this very quickly by sharing your reference implementation? |
| 13:47.34 | AcidWeb | Just saying that everybody reaction to this API was "WTF". |
| 13:47.47 | AcidWeb | Don't kill the messenger please. |
| 13:47.49 | Chipzz | I don't want to point fingers either way, just saying there's an easy solution to this |
| 13:48.44 | AcidWeb | Personally I just switched to WoWUP hub. |
| 13:48.55 | AcidWeb | And migrated the headache. |
| 13:49.50 | foxlit | AcidWeb: the intention isn't to kill anyone, but to get at least one of you to do things properly instead of layering predictably failing hacks on top of each other. |
| 13:50.31 | Sharparam | now i'm curious what this API is |
| 13:50.54 | AcidWeb | Well he then we have very different definition of "properly". |
| 13:50.56 | Funkeh` | It's the correct(tm) way |
| 13:51.31 | AcidWeb | *Well then |
| 13:52.04 | foxlit | For starters, it would be nice if upon reading "This endpoint SHOULD NOT be used to poll for addon updates: it does not provide the information necessary to determine whether an update has been released." the reaction wasn't "oh hey, I should use this endpoint to poll for addon updates" |
| 13:53.45 | AcidWeb | It is more like: Hey there is endpoint that provide everything you need but don't use it and switch to this convoluted database migration like methodology. |
| 13:53.55 | AcidWeb | Because it is better. |
| 13:54.00 | AcidWeb | In some way. |
| 13:54.50 | Sharparam | what is this "ty" api? it's not very googleable |
| 13:55.05 | AcidWeb | Because that was initial reaction after reading your documentation. |
| 13:55.23 | AcidWeb | Sharparam: https://www.townlong-yak.com/addons/about/update-api |
| 13:55.32 | Sharparam | ah, ty |
| 13:59.15 | Chipzz | Funkeh`: did you read my comments from last night? |
| 14:00.06 | Chipzz | Sharparam: https://www.townlong-yak.com/ is foxlit site that provides a lot of functionality/ info for addon development |
| 14:00.16 | Funkeh` | I already bought anima items and refunded them after swapping |
| 14:00.22 | Chipzz | Sharparam: he is now also posting his personal addons on that site |
| 14:00.31 | Chipzz | Sharparam: and has made an API to update his addons |
| 14:01.06 | Chipzz | Funkeh`: ok cool. I hope my comments can be helpfull for future reference either way :) |
| 14:01.56 | foxlit | AcidWeb: (1) it doesn't provide provide things like version numbers, release dates, change logs, or anything beyond what you need to perform an initial install (2) it tells you this explicitly. |
| 14:02.06 | Sharparam | Chipzz: yeah i've used that site before, just didn't connect the "ty" abbreviation |
| 14:02.45 | Funkeh` | Sharparam: don't worry, most people don't |
| 14:03.42 | Chipzz | tly would have been slightly more obvious, but whatever |
| 14:04.37 | foxlit | And I'd prefer it if you used the other end point to check for updates because (1) it's a single request to check for *all* updates you might be interested in (2) in the common case of checking that nothing has changed, this transfers almost no unnecessary data. |
| 14:05.48 | AcidWeb | I'm not using that API at all anymore. |
| 14:06.52 | AcidWeb | As to be perfectly fair I don't have time to implement something that represent completely different design approach for 8 addons. |
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| 14:07.07 | AcidWeb | It is simply don't compatible with my approach at all. |
| 14:07.31 | Funkeh` | Then your approach is wrong and you should change it |
| 14:07.50 | AcidWeb | So I rather digest less or more mangled but more generic payload from wowup hub. |
| 14:08.35 | AcidWeb | IDK if that was sarcasm or not Funkeh`. |
| 14:08.47 | Funkeh` | a hefty dose |
| 14:09.14 | AcidWeb | If you had 8000 addons there I would probably would do my homework. |
| 14:10.16 | AcidWeb | Entire Tukui have ~100 retail addons in database and we have no problem (not counting expansion launches) with providing it as one blob. |
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| 14:11.46 | foxlit | (coincidentially, you've switched to the API that shuffled the update zips) |
| 14:11.47 | Funkeh` | hopefully that doesn't include the 90% spam repos on their git site |
| 14:12.52 | Funkeh` | https://git.tukui.org/explore moderation is for whimps |
| 14:12.57 | AcidWeb | Yeah that is a menace. I don't maintain that part but for some reason even crazy captchas are not enough Funkeh. |
| 14:13.24 | Funkeh` | Lol some are months old, I don't think there's any maintenance at all |
| 14:13.38 | AcidWeb | Yeah nobody really clean it up anymore. |
| 14:13.51 | AcidWeb | Forcing f2a helped but impacted ticket creation too much ð |
| 14:14.56 | AcidWeb | I have strong opinions about state of that GitLab but also nothing to say on this topic ð |
| 14:15.36 | foxlit | AcidWeb: As to be perfectly fair I don't have time to implement something that represent completely different design approach for 8 addons. << That's entirely fair. |
| 14:16.19 | foxlit | But equivalently, I don't want to design an API to update 8 addons, or ask you to re-implement it once the 9th is released. |
| 14:18.07 | AcidWeb | IDK what to say more. I strongly believe you could make a way easier to use API that provide the same level of the performance. |
| 14:18.23 | AcidWeb | You disagree. That is fine. We will use what you will provide. |
| 14:20.51 | foxlit | Hey, if you have ideas on how to make a way easier to use API that provides the same level of performance for a user with 100 addons from an 8000-addon site, I'd be interested. |
| 14:21.15 | foxlit | Otherwise, I was just agreeing that you don't have to do anything you don't have time to do. |
| 14:23.19 | foxlit | Chipzz: this implements how wut interacts with the API: https://www.townlong-yak.com/box/tya-source.lua |
| 14:23.56 | Meorawr | I dunno if that update workflow would really be efficient for a large site; wouldn't the common case actually be that the average user is ~several versions behind come patch day and then has to issue a bunch of requests to the /addons/us/{token} endpoint of which 99% of the data it gets back would be useless? |
| 14:24.31 | znf | I still maintain that it's overly engineered for what it provides |
| 14:25.56 | znf | a single endpoint to display the state of all addons would have been just so much easier to implement, offer it with gzip compression and you're down to 2-3KB, maybe, per hit :P |
| 14:26.09 | foxlit | Meorawr: it's a bit smarter than that, so you'd onlly have to issue one request and receive only 97%* useless data. |
| 14:26.55 | foxlit | znf: yes, but that's precisely what I mean by "designing an API to update 8 addons" |
| 14:27.26 | znf | I'm sure you can grow it to 20 and still have no noticeable impact on bandwidth and complexion |
| 14:27.33 | foxlit | but could I grow it to 8000? |
| 14:28.00 | znf | Sure, why not. Text compresses nicely. Apply a rate-limit of 1req/hour |
| 14:28.43 | foxlit | (that's a 16MB download every time someone updates an addon) |
| 14:28.45 | znf | not to be a dick -- but I doubt you'll suddenly decide to make 7992 addons over night :) |
| 14:29.20 | Meorawr | Stranger things have happened. Probably. |
| 14:31.44 | foxlit | besides, the real goal is 8993 addons over night. |
| 14:32.22 | znf | I get building for a bigger scope, planning for the future etc. |
| 14:32.30 | znf | But aren't we being a big overly ambitious? :P |
| 14:33.07 | foxlit | A bit. The transparent between-the-lines read here is that I eventually plan on allowing other people to upload addons there. |
| 14:33.36 | znf | I get that :) |
| 14:33.45 | znf | You didn't have to say it |
| 14:33.53 | znf | But the question remains - what makes it attractive for people to do that? |
| 14:34.22 | znf | ie: what do you plan on providing that's better than just using github, which people are already familiar with |
| 14:35.54 | foxlit | I think I have a better mechanism for user-contributed localization updates than github. |
| 14:36.32 | foxlit | but more importantly, github is not an addon discovery mechanism. It works as a development site, but not as a "Hm, I wonder what cool PvP addons I should download" site. |
| 14:39.37 | znf | valid reason |
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| 15:38.50 | Ketho | <Chipzz> but given your website is written in lua I'm going to guess you won't be supporting that :) |
| 15:38.55 | Ketho | wait, what |
| 15:39.02 | Ketho | tly is written in lua? |
| 15:43.29 | Chipzz | I have a serious suspicion it is |
| 15:43.36 | Chipzz | lots of things pointing that way |
| 15:47.21 | Chipzz | Ketho: also, it makes sense for people to stick with the language/ toolkit they know |
| 15:47.44 | Chipzz | Ketho: like how compilers are written in the language they compile (which often creates bootstrap problems) |
| 15:48.18 | Chipzz | but foxlit should probably either confirm or contradict that |
| 15:48.31 | Chipzz | (or not react at all, whatever he prefers) |
| 15:49.14 | Ketho | hmm considering LuaCASC is a thing you might have a point |
| 15:49.24 | Chipzz | exactly |
| 15:49.50 | Chipzz | why bother writing it if you're not going to use it? |
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| 19:21.01 | znf | I'm still impressed you managed to hard-crash the game client tbh |
| 19:29.07 | foxlit | Ketho: tly is written in lua? << the website isn't, no. |
| 19:30.22 | foxlit | Some background tooling is, though. |
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| 19:47.38 | Boogol | re:crash, it's a bug with the C side in the game client since it provides api in the form of lua, just a case of figuring which order not to call the functions in to avoid it from happening |
| 20:43.48 | foxlit | on a related note, I just spent five minutes with pcall(coroutine.yield) |
| 20:52.06 | foxlit | but that's probably an amusing puzzle all on its own: how do you get information out of a crashing client about what caused it to crash. |
| 21:00.15 | Ketho | is it something involved with modelscene actors |
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| 21:01.38 | foxlit | probably not |
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