| 02:14.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 02:18.12 | Ressy | FYI: Twitch is suddenly installing classic versions of addons to 8.2.5 Live folders, so if you start getting complaints about errors, thats probably why. |
| 02:19.03 | Mr_Rabies | it keeps doing that |
| 02:19.45 | Ressy | I stupidly let it update.... |
| 02:20.08 | Ressy | I now have to manually reinstall a bunch of addons cuz Twitch won't install an older version. lol |
| 02:22.14 | Mr_Rabies | things like that make me wonder if wowmatrix has such issues lol |
| 02:25.14 | Ressy | yeah really. |
| 02:27.19 | Ressy | Just consistently gets worse. |
| 02:27.45 | Mr_Rabies | at least it's not adware anymore i guess |
| 02:27.55 | Ressy | I'm talking Twitch, but.. |
| 02:28.16 | Mr_Rabies | the trend started pre-twitch purchase, it just kept going |
| 02:28.23 | Ressy | mmhmm |
| 02:32.30 | Ressy | I guess it would also help if when you click the button on the website to have Twitch install the addon directly for you... It'd help if it actually worked. |
| 02:36.11 | Ressy | What gets me... Everything is last updated Oct 26th or 27th. |
| 02:37.05 | Mr_Rabies | yup, that's a long-running bug |
| 02:37.23 | Mr_Rabies | it sets the last updated date to the current date every now and then |
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| 07:38.19 | Ennea | first time i'm hearing about wowmatrix |
| 07:38.37 | Ennea | advertising your product like this seems oddly specific though: "WowMatrix is a 100% FREE WoW AddOn Installer and Updater that's completely safe to use and contains no keyloggers or spyware." |
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| 08:33.19 | Ennea | ah, blizz reacted to the complaints about spy in classic. in the nicest way possible i'd say |
| 08:33.27 | Ennea | they reduced the range of the combat log to 50 units |
| 08:33.50 | Ennea | https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/in-game-combat-log-range-decreased/370390 |
| 08:48.51 | Mr_Rabies | side effect is that combat logs are now less useful but oh wel |
| 08:49.46 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.147.218.getinternet.no) |
| 08:50.49 | VIad | it's specific to avoid "someone in the cave north of here, 100 yards, is killing yetis, let's go kill him" behavior. it's more natural to kill what you see nearby, and 50 yards combatlogging in the world is fine. they said instances are like before so shouldnt be weird when logging those activities. |
| 08:52.01 | nevcairiel | I didnt see them say anything about instances being like before |
| 08:52.07 | Mr_Rabies | i didn't either |
| 08:54.32 | Mr_Rabies | i'm a rogue and i had no issue with spy - especially since it existed in vanilla |
| 08:54.47 | Mr_Rabies | but if the combat log was limited to 50 yards in vanilla i've got no real problem |
| 08:56.41 | nevcairiel | it was, remember the inconsistent dps meter results, everyone was on top of their own :D |
| 08:56.58 | Mr_Rabies | it's still a bit inconsistent but much less so |
| 08:57.30 | nevcairiel | the only inconsistency you get now is if there are actual different rooms or phases, and sometimes with pets |
| 08:57.43 | Mr_Rabies | lag, etc can play into it too |
| 08:59.20 | Ennea | yea, range in vanilla was relatively low. before this classic change, the range was pretty damn high |
| 08:59.37 | Ennea | having players in the combat log before even seeing them because they're too far to be rendered... was a little weird |
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| 09:07.22 | Mr_Rabies | all i see is This fix does not affect text logs that the game outputs for raid parses. |
| 09:07.37 | Mr_Rabies | which means warcraft logs will be okay |
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| 09:13.27 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:13.27 | *** topic/#wowuidev is BC Dinner Sign Up: https://bit.ly/2mV8xKi || WoW Classic Addon Cat: https://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat160.html || 8.2.5 ToC: 80205 || 1.13 ToC: 11302 || http://pastebin.com || Discord: https://discord.gg/sVQCHr5 || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl |
| 09:26.25 | Ennea | and supposedly there was another change that wasn't part of the blue post: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/dzx812/details_on_how_the_combat_log_spy_was_nerfed/ |
| 09:26.41 | Ennea | tl;dr: previously, buffs on players would appear in the log once they came into range. now, they only appear when cast |
| 10:15.39 | Chipzz | not that I care about PvP, especially not sth as despicable as WPvP, but this sounds like the wrong fix to me |
| 10:16.31 | Mr_Rabies | i had so much more fun in vanilla WPvP than I have in any other form of PVP |
| 10:16.33 | Chipzz | I've always wondered why the Combat Log would display information about players that are not in your party/ raid, or are not in combat with |
| 10:16.41 | Chipzz | or NPCs you're in combat with |
| 10:17.29 | Chipzz | why on earth does it matter to me that the person standing next to me in SW has just crafted a potion or whatever? |
| 10:17.31 | Ennea | Chipzz, if you consider this the wrong fix, what would you rather have? |
| 10:17.33 | Mr_Rabies | i do think wow had much more of a traditional rpg inspiration in vanilla, and this probably goes back to that |
| 10:17.49 | Chipzz | Ennea: my solution was in implied I think? |
| 10:18.06 | Mr_Rabies | i think their fix to look at vanilla for inspiration was a good move tbh |
| 10:18.10 | Chipzz | combat log only has information about ppl relevant to you, ie ppl in your party/raid |
| 10:18.17 | Ennea | hm |
| 10:18.29 | Chipzz | or ppl/ npcs you're in combat with |
| 10:18.37 | Ennea | i dunno, i like having more info in the combat log than that |
| 10:18.38 | Mr_Rabies | that would be a huge change, might be a good option for retail |
| 10:18.41 | Mr_Rabies | but not classic |
| 10:18.47 | Ennea | that also |
| 10:19.27 | Chipzz | honestly I hate PvP and never participate in it, so it's irrelevant to me, but it sounds wrong on a technical level |
| 10:19.54 | Chipzz | Ennea: why is that? (you wanting information about ppl not in your party)? |
| 10:20.13 | Mr_Rabies | i'm gonna assume everquest and the like also had that info |
| 10:20.19 | Ennea | it's useful to get a grasp of what happens around you |
| 10:21.07 | Ennea | sure, usually in a pvp context, but it also helps saving other players of your faction from dying occasionally, for example |
| 10:22.28 | Chipzz | if you care that much about a random person, why didn't you group up with them in the first place? |
| 10:23.31 | Ennea | didn't even know they were there ;p |
| 10:23.41 | Mr_Rabies | i'm guessing the real reason is they basically wanted the combat log to show everything except the things they didn't want anyone seeing in general (script bunnies etc) |
| 10:23.43 | Chipzz | ok, being saved by a random person has happened to me like once or twice, but usually when I want to help out I invite them as soon as I see them |
| 10:23.44 | Ennea | last time was in alterac, that ogre fort |
| 10:24.04 | Ennea | i went back there to farm some iron and/or mithril. randomly saw another player in combat log taking a beating |
| 10:24.12 | Ennea | frost nova'd the mobs so they could get away |
| 10:24.22 | Mr_Rabies | some people drag out their combat log and put it beside chat or whatever |
| 10:25.31 | Ennea | Chipzz, dunno how it is on retail nowadays. but back in vanilla and now again in classic, i have random player interactions very often. without partying up |
| 10:25.40 | Ennea | people helping me with certain mobs or the other way around |
| 10:25.45 | Ennea | then going our separate ways again |
| 10:26.05 | Ennea | that one elite troll caster in STV? killed him with the help of a dwarf warrior, me being an undead mage |
| 10:26.13 | Ennea | before honor went live, mind you ;p |
| 10:26.50 | Mr_Rabies | apparently this was the old everquest ui so i could see wanting to put a bunch of stuff in the combat log http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/formatted/352010/f2281e18-fd51-4559-8b38-3ba77a1f5a91.jpg |
| 10:28.23 | Chipzz | OMG that UI is BAAAD :p |
| 10:29.19 | Ennea | lovely :p |
| 10:31.39 | Mr_Rabies | but not all that different from other pc rpgs of the era |
| 10:32.01 | Mr_Rabies | https://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/331/330056/profile/scr00001.4.jpg |
| 10:32.09 | Mr_Rabies | probably a mod lol |
| 10:32.27 | Mr_Rabies | https://newfallout.com/images/fallout-1/play-fallout-1-on-windows-7.png |
| 10:33.25 | Mr_Rabies | but yeah i think the combat log is what it is because of convention and the environment wow was made in |
| 10:33.59 | Mr_Rabies | if the original concept for wow was canceled and blizzard made it today instead it would likely have no combat log or customizable ui or other great things because they are expensive and don't really generate income |
| 10:35.02 | Chipzz | customizable ui may very well be not just for addons but for easier internal development anyway |
| 10:35.17 | Chipzz | lua being much less prone to crashes than C++ |
| 10:37.07 | Ennea | yea, i really feel they didn't do this for the players. at least not initially |
| 10:37.28 | Mr_Rabies | yeah but they would probably decide the cat and mouse game of locking down the ui wouldn't be worth the time spent on it |
| 10:38.11 | Mr_Rabies | but at that time there were lots of games with customizable uis, and slouken even worked on porting at least one that i know of to linux |
| 10:38.23 | Mr_Rabies | nowadays if they can't sell it as dlc you ain't gettin it |
| 10:39.01 | Ennea | what other games actually exist with customizable ui? |
| 10:39.06 | Ennea | except for tribes ;p |
| 10:39.29 | Mr_Rabies | half life and lots of mods for it |
| 10:40.01 | Chipzz | stability in C++ is a real concern; just look at SimpleHTML |
| 10:40.05 | Ennea | well.. bit of a stretch |
| 10:40.17 | Mr_Rabies | lots of games had full on mod sdks back in the day, that rarely happens nowadays |
| 10:40.27 | Ennea | that's true, i guess |
| 10:40.44 | Mr_Rabies | but even like |
| 10:40.55 | Mr_Rabies | counter strike had .cs files for customizing stuff |
| 10:40.57 | Chipzz | I'm not a hardcore addon developer but I already found a crasher (hard segmentation fault) in SimpleHTML in the past and rececntly I've found another (non-crasher) bug in it |
| 10:41.29 | Ennea | finding crashes in any of WoW's apis seems relatively easy tbh ;p |
| 10:41.42 | Chipzz | SimpleHTML:GetContentHeight() returning bad values |
| 10:41.53 | Mr_Rabies | i remember even doing model swaps etc in old school counterstrike and other hl mods |
| 10:41.58 | Mr_Rabies | high res gun models and such |
| 10:42.01 | Mr_Rabies | good times |
| 10:42.03 | Mr_Rabies | i really miss em :( |
| 10:42.08 | Ennea | yea, that was fun |
| 10:42.14 | Ennea | not sure if it was ever intended though :D |
| 10:43.07 | Mr_Rabies | everything is obsessed with being competitive, and/or it's just cheaper to lock everything down as an anticheat measure |
| 10:43.16 | Ennea | well |
| 10:43.20 | Ennea | csgo has gun skins ;p |
| 10:43.30 | Ennea | as does every other game nowadays i guess |
| 10:43.43 | Mr_Rabies | but i remember having a trout to mirc troutslap people in a video game |
| 10:43.44 | Mr_Rabies | instead of a knife |
| 10:43.56 | Mr_Rabies | <Mr_Rabies> nowadays if they can't sell it as dlc you ain't gettin it |
| 10:44.26 | Ennea | not allowing model swaps to instead make money off of gun skins is fine in my book |
| 10:44.27 | Chipzz | imagine the mirc trout script being paying DLC :D |
| 10:44.38 | Ennea | it's a much preferred way to monetize compared to anything pay to win |
| 10:44.49 | Mr_Rabies | or you could just do like games used to do |
| 10:44.52 | Ennea | Chipzz, since it's mirc, i wouldn't even be surprised :p |
| 10:45.10 | Mr_Rabies | let people make custom stuff for your game |
| 10:45.24 | Ennea | you can still make gun skins in csgo |
| 10:45.25 | Chipzz | haven't used mirc in ages, but when I did, I used a pirated version anyway :P |
| 10:45.32 | Ennea | and if valve approves, you can even make money off it |
| 10:45.49 | Mr_Rabies | can you make a gun model and run around with it on your client? |
| 10:45.55 | Mr_Rabies | or only if valve approves of it |
| 10:45.55 | Ennea | nope |
| 10:46.00 | Ennea | no custom models |
| 10:46.02 | Ennea | textures only |
| 10:46.16 | Mr_Rabies | even custom textures require you it to be in the workshop program yeah? |
| 10:46.26 | Ennea | yea |
| 10:46.30 | Mr_Rabies | i.e. you gotta give them financial info and only once it gets approved can you use it |
| 10:46.39 | Mr_Rabies | yeah that's dumb |
| 10:46.44 | Ennea | i'm actually not sure how the whole "we pay you now" works |
| 10:47.06 | Ennea | if they need your info beforehand |
| 10:47.12 | Ennea | or they just contact you when they like your skin(s) |
| 10:47.13 | Ennea | no idea |
| 10:47.29 | Mr_Rabies | but you can't even use them on your own client until everyone can use them right? |
| 10:47.47 | Ennea | well, you can test them locally obviously |
| 10:47.55 | Ennea | so you can check how they actually look ingame |
| 10:48.08 | Mr_Rabies | but probably only in like a practice mode? |
| 10:48.10 | Ennea | but not in any competitive matches or on other official servers i suppose |
| 10:48.16 | Mr_Rabies | still dumb how it used to be was much better |
| 10:54.31 | Chipzz | never been much of a gamer but that kind of customizability sounds pretty lacking to me |
| 10:54.45 | Chipzz | but then again I guess ppl care more about skins than a decent UI |
| 10:55.17 | Chipzz | "Oh pretteh!!ONE" |
| 10:56.03 | Mr_Rabies | yeah i don't really buy skins or other such nonsense |
| 10:56.28 | Mr_Rabies | that stuff is worthless to me, monetarily speaking |
| 10:56.40 | Chipzz | agree |
| 10:56.44 | Mr_Rabies | i bought one battle pet for $5, the fire kitten |
| 10:57.00 | Mr_Rabies | because i'm a druid and it was when fire cat was a big deal |
| 10:57.01 | Chipzz | the only visuals I ever bought were for OW |
| 10:57.08 | Chipzz | the Lucio & Mercy skins |
| 10:57.22 | Mr_Rabies | you can't just buy them though can you? |
| 10:57.27 | Mr_Rabies | it's the awful gambling junk? |
| 10:57.33 | Mr_Rabies | which is even worse |
| 10:57.39 | Chipzz | you buy OWL points and you buy them with that |
| 10:58.19 | Chipzz | for the subsequent OWL skins I had enough OWL credits from watching streams |
| 10:58.53 | Mr_Rabies | geez i'd rather work and buy skins than watch someone play overwatch for free skins |
| 10:59.02 | Mr_Rabies | but then again i stopped playing that game years ago lol |
| 10:59.29 | Chipzz | the OWL streams are on the weekens anyway |
| 11:00.00 | Chipzz | I doubt you're gonna be working on a Friday night :) |
| 11:00.04 | Mr_Rabies | i would rather someone pay me to let them punch me in the gut than watch an overwatch stream |
| 11:00.18 | Chipzz | well to each his own I guess |
| 11:00.52 | Chipzz | I do like Stylosa's OverAnalyzed channel a lot though :) |
| 11:01.16 | Chipzz | I love that Brit :) |
| 11:01.22 | Mr_Rabies | most of the game streams i watch are to learn about games i'm interested in or learning about new games, or just all the weird random trash vinesauce streams |
| 11:01.59 | Mr_Rabies | he streams the weird stuff on sunday nights and that's mostly my jam |
| 11:02.21 | Chipzz | "he"? |
| 11:02.50 | Mr_Rabies | well, vinesauce was vinny's nickname before it became a streaming group, and i was mostly keeping it simple :v |
| 11:03.17 | Chipzz | ah I didn't pick up on vinesauce being a person :) |
| 11:03.46 | Mr_Rabies | it started as his stream, and over time he brought in some folks that watched the stream etc and they all used to use the same twitch account |
| 11:04.04 | Mr_Rabies | but eventually they decided that was a bad idea and split up to their own channels |
| 11:04.23 | Chipzz | twitch probably doesn't like account sharing anyway |
| 11:04.39 | Mr_Rabies | yeah this was real early |
| 11:05.23 | Chipzz | at least I'm making some progress on my addon again :) |
| 11:05.34 | Chipzz | lesson learned: don't use SimpleHTML :p |
| 11:07.42 | Chipzz | (well I am still using it, but not using :GetContentHeight() anymore, instead manually summing up the height of the regions |
| 11:08.39 | Chipzz | and I'm gonna completely kick it to the curb in the future and replace it with a Frame adding my own FontStrings manually |
| 11:09.32 | Chipzz | I wonder why SimpleHTML has support for <p> but not for <pre> o.O |
| 11:11.51 | Ennea | because p is a lot more common that pre, i suppose ;p |
| 11:12.29 | Chipzz | sure, but on a technical level they're just as easy |
| 11:15.20 | Ennea | i guess they just didn't need it |
| 11:16.03 | Chipzz | I don't <h3> is used anywhere either but they still added support :) |
| 11:16.29 | Chipzz | because it was easy given h1 and h2 were supported |
| 12:15.47 | znf | >The Mighty Caravan Brutosaur is going away in Shadowlands! |
| 12:15.48 | znf | The fuck? |
| 12:17.53 | nevcairiel | such a useless and ugly mount |
| 12:18.21 | AcidWeb | That mount is biggest QoL ever. |
| 12:18.38 | nevcairiel | for the one time a week i visit the AH? yeah, no. |
| 12:19.30 | AcidWeb | Well if you use AH once a week then yes. |
| 12:19.37 | nevcairiel | unless by biggest you mean its actual physical size |
| 12:19.40 | nevcairiel | in which case maybe |
| 12:20.13 | AcidWeb | But if you use AH often it is just glorious. |
| 12:20.28 | nevcairiel | in any case if you really want one, there is still 10 months or so to get it |
| 12:20.28 | znf | I don't get the reason. There was never a precedent for it |
| 12:20.40 | znf | Now suddenly it's "special" |
| 12:20.43 | nevcairiel | not everything has to be obvious to you |
| 12:20.50 | nevcairiel | to you specifically, since you d ont grasp stuff well |
| 12:21.25 | znf | Like what? "create a sense of urgency and make players buy gold NOW when it still has some value"? |
| 12:21.29 | znf | That's just a scumbag reason. |
| 12:21.40 | nevcairiel | its too much gold to actually expect many people to buy it for th at |
| 12:21.57 | nevcairiel | those that would do it would've already done so |
| 12:23.50 | AcidWeb | It is worth to pay so much gold for privilege to not visit SW. |
| 12:23.54 | znf | I was hoping to buy it somewhere along the next expansions, when the gold cost is meaningless, but... |
| 12:23.55 | AcidWeb | ;> |
| 12:24.07 | nevcairiel | why would 5 million ever be meaningless |
| 12:24.10 | znf | meh, I'm an engineer, I haven't visited Orgrimmar for AH reasons in.. 3? 4? expansions? |
| 12:24.53 | znf | plus, I have a level 5 alt with Engineering in Shrine parked all the time |
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| 12:52.39 | Ennea | yoo, fellow engineer \o/ is it true the engineering specialization companions aren't BoP anymore on retail? lil' smoky and that little pet bombling |
| 12:52.41 | Ennea | sucks |
| 12:53.12 | znf | dunno, I haven't bothered with pets since MoP |
| 12:53.30 | znf | but considering you can Cage most pets now... |
| 12:53.57 | Ennea | :| |
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