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| 13:03.19 | cirdan | solution: only play classic :) |
| 13:03.28 | cirdan | whups old scrollback |
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| 16:59.16 | jadiilelz | but classic is a dead end |
| 17:00.18 | Ennea | it is for now |
| 17:00.20 | Ennea | can't wait to see what they'll do with it |
| 17:00.44 | nevcairiel | its a dead end by definition |
| 17:00.51 | nevcairiel | even if they add bc, its still a dead end |
| 17:01.04 | Ennea | well, if they don't proceed with bc, it's not a dead end |
| 17:01.11 | Ennea | heck, even if they do, it's not necessarily a dead end |
| 17:02.13 | nevcairiel | all the crazy people would not actually like actual changes to their classic :p |
| 17:03.45 | Ennea | i dunno, so far the general opinion on "classic plus" has been pretty positive whenever it was being talked about |
| 17:05.17 | nevcairiel | the key problem is that only new content would not actually attract "new" people, since many people are opposed to many of the core problems - and when you start talking about fixing those, where do you stop? how many hardcore classic people will you lose? how far will you have to go to actually get more people interested? will they bother with classic and classic enhanced realms? (I doubt it) |
| 17:06.35 | Meorawr | Classic+ down the line would probably just end up being a scuffed version of retail with everyone and their mother having differing opinions on what "ruined" the game. |
| 17:06.39 | Ennea | i think blizzard went with the whole "#nochanges" thing because it makes sense to keep everything just as it was until the experience is "done" |
| 17:06.47 | Ennea | that is, until all six of their planned phases are finished |
| 17:07.22 | Ennea | there have been various talks on the classicwow subreddit about the countless broken things classic has |
| 17:07.35 | Ennea | but for now, they are just accepted. nothing ruins the fun yet |
| 17:07.44 | Ennea | but people see it's broken, so i doubt they'd be opposed to fix it |
| 17:08.00 | Ennea | i mean honestly, who in their right mind would be opposed to better itemization or some class balance down the line? |
| 17:08.28 | Meorawr | The PvP community probably. |
| 17:08.29 | nevcairiel | but, where do you stop? |
| 17:08.31 | Ennea | just throwing a guess out there, but i doubt the "real" hardcore crowd that doesn't want any changes to classic at all are less than 1% of the current playerbase |
| 17:08.40 | Ennea | where do you stop? yea, that's a tough one |
| 17:08.56 | nevcairiel | also yeah, hybrid classes for example are generally shtity in pve, but they are really strong in pvp |
| 17:09.03 | Ennea | but i think it can be managed with some community communication and a guy or two at blizz that knows what wouldn't be a good idea |
| 17:09.17 | nevcairiel | if you make everyone useful in pve, do you introduce some of the weird solutions we've had to re-balance pvp? |
| 17:09.18 | Ennea | they can be good in pve also, see mage |
| 17:09.23 | Ennea | then again mage is just kinda OP |
| 17:09.27 | Ennea | s/OP/op |
| 17:09.46 | nevcairiel | mage is not a hybrid :p |
| 17:09.50 | Ennea | balancing will always be tough, but even in its current state, classic is just a boatload of fun |
| 17:09.56 | Ennea | yo, i play fire frost spec |
| 17:10.01 | Ennea | IS THAT NOT HYBRID ENOUGH?! :P |
| 17:10.03 | nevcairiel | no |
| 17:10.07 | nevcairiel | hybrid means different roles |
| 17:10.12 | nevcairiel | mage is pure dps |
| 17:10.13 | Ennea | yea, good point |
| 17:10.22 | Ennea | 90% dps |
| 17:10.27 | Ennea | 10% water and food dispenser |
| 17:10.37 | nevcairiel | thats what you wish to be true, anyway |
| 17:10.44 | Ennea | yea, reality is more like 50/50... |
| 17:10.49 | Ennea | at least i'm getting paid |
| 17:10.55 | Ennea | regardless |
| 17:11.05 | nevcairiel | imagine you get a automatically food dispensing table that you can summon |
| 17:11.12 | nevcairiel | wouldnt you like that? |
| 17:11.14 | Ennea | how far? nobody could tell you i'm guessing |
| 17:11.20 | Ennea | honestly? not really |
| 17:11.37 | Ennea | itemization changes? i'm sure people wouldn't mind. it's broken |
| 17:11.51 | Ennea | balance? it gets tricky here. but blizz has always upset people with balance changes. can't avoid it |
| 17:12.07 | Ennea | take out leeway and spell batching? i couldn't imagine anybody not liking that |
| 17:12.30 | nevcairiel | thats why #nochanges is the only possible way to go, because you have an actual argument there, but any change otherwise will upset someone |
| 17:12.57 | Ennea | i agree. but as i said, it also makes sense because right now, we don't even have all content live |
| 17:13.05 | Ennea | at this point, it makes no sense to introduce any changes |
| 17:13.13 | Ennea | afterwards, there's room for plenty changes |
| 17:13.18 | Ennea | go add the focus frame |
| 17:13.22 | Ennea | why would anybody _not_ want that? |
| 17:13.46 | Esamynn|work | ' |
| 17:13.46 | Meorawr | "Because when we did this content the lack of that feature made it harder, adding it now devalues my accomplishments." |
| 17:14.09 | Esamynn|work | 's reaction to classic was very much "been there, done that" |
| 17:14.14 | Meorawr | People don't need to make sense when they get angry, they just need to be really loud about it. |
| 17:14.32 | Ennea | yea, that's the issue Meorawr |
| 17:14.38 | Ennea | but that's an issue on the internet in general |
| 17:14.43 | nevcairiel | after classic is basically done, changing the balance or fixing some problems is not going to make much of a difference if you don't also make content, and i really don't see them making original content for classic - they probably couldnt make anything thats "faithful" to the design anymore anyway |
| 17:14.45 | Ennea | so blizz needs people who know how to deal with that |
| 17:14.53 | Esamynn|work | that's life/people in general |
| 17:15.07 | Ennea | Esamynn|work, it is, but i feel the internet made it worse |
| 17:15.17 | Ennea | it gives people a stage |
| 17:15.20 | Ennea | like.. literally everyone |
| 17:15.27 | Ennea | nevcairiel, obviously new content is also needed |
| 17:15.34 | Ennea | but that can be done. why not? |
| 17:15.38 | Ennea | caverns of time, emerald dream |
| 17:15.42 | Ennea | different outlands approach |
| 17:15.54 | znf | Alram, how can I find out how many games steam has? |
| 17:16.10 | Ennea | znf, steamdb might be your best bet |
| 17:16.21 | znf | I'm there, hence why I'm asking Alram |
| 17:16.25 | Ennea | ah |
| 17:16.55 | Ennea | TIL Alram also works on steamdb. sweet |
| 17:16.57 | nevcairiel | new content would be a huge terrible mistake, it binds many more types of developers then just making old content work, for a very small community |
| 17:17.08 | Meorawr | I don't think Classic's progression model would really allow for a fourth tier of content without an expansion-like reset. |
| 17:17.18 | Meorawr | Though we'd need to see how many guilds actually clear Naxx when that comes out. |
| 17:17.30 | nevcairiel | that too, there is a reason BC introduced ratings |
| 17:17.48 | nevcairiel | everyone hated them, but flat % increases just get out of hand |
| 17:18.07 | Ennea | nevcairiel, classic already has a lot more players than blizz initially expected, going by numbers of realms on launch vs now |
| 17:18.14 | Ennea | so perhaps it's worth it having devs develop new content |
| 17:18.15 | Ennea | who knows? |
| 17:18.19 | znf | I wanna know how many Linux games does Steam have, and how much it represents out of the total game library they have |
| 17:18.28 | znf | so my hope is only Alram! |
| 17:18.32 | Ennea | hehe |
| 17:18.35 | znf | Ennea, had* |
| 17:18.36 | znf | more players |
| 17:18.37 | znf | :P |
| 17:19.01 | znf | aren't they already reducing layers, with some servers having only 1 layer by now? |
| 17:19.04 | nevcairiel | I never doubted that classic would have few players in the beginning, but give them half a year or so |
| 17:19.11 | Ennea | znf, reducing layers was the point |
| 17:19.23 | Ennea | blizz said they wouldn't launch phase 2 until all realms only have one layer left |
| 17:19.29 | Ennea | the goal was no more layering when phase 2 is live |
| 17:19.49 | Alram | We don't track Linux games anymore znf but you might be able to use search functionality for it |
| 17:19.53 | Meorawr | Unless you're jacked into the matrix I don't think anyone can definitively say which is the larger game at the minute. It's all educated guesses. |
| 17:19.59 | Alram | You might have to be logged in for those numbers tho |
| 17:19.59 | znf | Alram, how?! |
| 17:20.01 | Ennea | that doesn't necessarily mean less players, just more balanced. sure, the initial rush of people is gone, and many players that tried classic will have left |
| 17:20.04 | znf | ah |
| 17:20.06 | Ennea | but realm pops are healthy as fuck right now |
| 17:20.31 | Meorawr | My friend group right now plays both games, with a slight bias probably towards retail in terms of time currently played. |
| 17:20.55 | Ennea | i have a healthy mix of WoW, the new cod and a bunch of singleplayer stuff |
| 17:20.57 | nevcairiel | i tried to play classic but it litereally just bored me to s top |
| 17:20.59 | znf | Also, by now, it's technically "content draught" on Live |
| 17:21.17 | znf | Once new patch hits WoW, classic time played will decay some more |
| 17:21.37 | Alram | https://steamdb.info/search/?a=app_keynames&type=1&keyname=92&operator=1&keyvalue=linux if that works for you znf |
| 17:21.46 | Alram | Might need to login or something |
| 17:21.55 | znf | I logged on |
| 17:21.59 | Meorawr | I imagine content phases will be timed to patch up retail content lulls |
| 17:22.00 | Alram | Or worst case it's admin only |
| 17:22.03 | znf | but the number is suspiciously round? :D |
| 17:22.14 | Alram | 6947 here |
| 17:22.15 | znf | I'm assuming it's limited to 5000 results? |
| 17:22.21 | nevcairiel | thats probably why the pulled dire maul out of phase 2 |
| 17:22.27 | Alram | Ah that might be the admin part |
| 17:22.27 | znf | yeah, I see 5000 :P |
| 17:22.31 | Alram | Rip |
| 17:23.00 | Alram | Protondb is what replaced our Linux tracking |
| 17:23.09 | Alram | https://www.protondb.com/ |
| 17:23.22 | Ennea | znf, good call. do we know when retail gets new content? |
| 17:23.29 | znf | Alram, cool, now can you also give me the number for total games? |
| 17:24.27 | znf | just search for oslist windows |
| 17:24.31 | znf | as I get limited to 5k :( |
| 17:25.34 | Alram | Sec |
| 17:25.56 | Alram | 37k |
| 17:29.18 | znf | thanks, back to internet arguing |
| 17:29.24 | znf | you're a peach |
| 17:32.59 | Ennea | :D |
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| 17:42.25 | znf | people still believe in "linux gaming" *smh* |
| 17:43.29 | Ennea | games being made to run on linux is pretty much history now that valve introduced their.. uhh |
| 17:43.31 | Ennea | whatever it's called |
| 17:44.06 | Vardex | It's the future |
| 17:44.43 | Vardex | Stadia is going to use linux |
| 17:45.09 | Ennea | if you think stadia is the future.. oh boy |
| 17:45.44 | Vardex | No but it's forcing game to be compatible with linux |
| 17:46.14 | AcidWeb | Stadia will be fastest buffering simulator on the planet. |
| 17:46.23 | Ennea | :D |
| 17:46.36 | Ennea | Vardex, that depends a lot on the success of stadia |
| 17:46.46 | znf | Ennea, "Proton" |
| 17:46.57 | Ennea | right, that thing |
| 17:47.03 | znf | AcidWeb, some parts of the world have decent internet |
| 17:47.15 | Vardex | Google have a shit ton of money to buy timed eclusivity on Dtadia |
| 17:47.28 | znf | Also, you can see the status of Proton games https://www.protondb.com/ |
| 17:47.29 | AcidWeb | Some. |
| 17:47.31 | Meorawr | That won't backfire at all from a consumer point of view, I'm sure. |
| 17:47.51 | Meorawr | Not like people got mad over Epic store exclusivity or anything. |
| 17:47.56 | AcidWeb | But unless they made some ground breaking improvements it will a mess like previous attempts. |
| 17:48.22 | znf | I like the /idea/ of Stadia, and the fun parts of it (youtube integration, saving points via links etc.) |
| 17:48.27 | AcidWeb | On the other hand - it is Google. |
| 17:48.28 | znf | I don't like their business model |
| 17:48.31 | Vardex | What do you mean, most peoples are happy with epic giving free games, only a vocal minority hate epic |
| 17:48.34 | AcidWeb | If not they then who? |
| 17:48.50 | znf | like, there's no way I'd pay a monthly subscription _AND_ then pay for the games separately |
| 17:49.22 | Meorawr | I liked the look of Outer Wilds but the timed exclusivity immediately stopped me from purchasing it 'cause I don't want yet another storefront/client. |
| 17:49.31 | Vardex | People are already doing that with thing like shadow, I have some people using that to play wow |
| 17:49.50 | znf | uhm, what's Shadow? |
| 17:50.05 | Vardex | https://shadow.tech/ |
| 17:50.20 | znf | is it "they-host-the-game-and-you-view" or "remote-desktop-on-steroids" |
| 17:50.47 | znf | ok, so the 1st |
| 17:50.58 | znf | iirc, that is against the ToS and can get you banned |
| 17:53.10 | znf | I remember "Parsec" had such a system, and players were reporting getting perma-banned |
| 17:54.32 | znf | I checked now, it seems they have discontinued it (?!) |
| 17:54.47 | Vardex | 2 guildmates use that daily to play, they are not banned yet |
| 17:55.19 | znf | *shrug* https://blog.parsecgaming.com/blizzards-cloud-gaming-mistake-30c615b4c126 |
| 17:56.59 | znf | I'm not saying they will be banned, I'm saying that Blizzard could ban them :P |
| 17:57.59 | znf | https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8zmtfj/be_careful_cloud_gaming_users_bans_going_out/ |
| 17:58.02 | znf | they're old posts, but... |
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