| 01:53.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho_ (~Ketho@ip5455b5fc.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 02:37.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@072-189-128-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 04:41.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@2a00:801:341:eab2:1219:6a42:3713:c687) |
| 05:21.36 | Mr_Rabies | okay the new AH is incredible |
| 05:25.36 | znf | yup |
| 05:25.39 | znf | only missing buy orders |
| 05:26.12 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, hopefully we get those especially for equipment |
| 05:26.18 | Mr_Rabies | and other non-stackable gear |
| 05:27.21 | znf | I'm also waiting to see what the whole titanforging thing is about |
| 05:30.40 | Mr_Rabies | well the fact that they addressed it at all means that they at least see it as somewhat of an issue for ilvl bloat, etc |
| 05:31.54 | znf | I don't think "ilvl bloat" is an actual issue for them |
| 05:31.57 | znf | I don't see why it would |
| 05:32.05 | znf | also, why the hell are people even bothered about that? |
| 05:32.19 | znf | people and their fear of big numbers smh |
| 05:35.20 | Mr_Rabies | well things start to get untenable around 1000 ilvl and titanforging makes that happen a lot faster |
| 05:35.56 | Mr_Rabies | since you need the next tier gear to be a definite upgrade at least at heroic over the previous Mythic Gear TF in most cases |
| 05:36.44 | Mr_Rabies | basically 4 Difficulties combined with TF make ilvl jump way too much way too fast |
| 05:37.19 | znf | So you would somehow feel better if normal would be ilvl 100, heroic 105 and mythic 110? |
| 05:37.21 | znf | if so, why? |
| 05:37.44 | znf | they can just make max ilvl to 115 in this case, and make normal titanforge up to 115 |
| 05:37.44 | Mr_Rabies | no, but i'd rather remove LFR entirely to cut one difficulty |
| 05:37.51 | Mr_Rabies | and remove TF |
| 05:37.53 | znf | what exactly would be the difference? |
| 05:38.05 | Mr_Rabies | probably 15-30 less ilvl per tier give or take |
| 05:38.10 | znf | and that would help, how? |
| 05:38.27 | Mr_Rabies | fewer ilvl resets over time |
| 05:38.32 | znf | why does it matter? |
| 05:38.49 | Mr_Rabies | because it's stupid to have to do it in the first place but they legit really needed to |
| 05:39.04 | znf | I'm not seeing an actual, valid reason for that |
| 05:39.06 | Mr_Rabies | tooltips were getting really stupid |
| 05:39.59 | znf | I find the whole ilvl squish to be silly |
| 05:39.59 | Mr_Rabies | but i do think it's stupid to have to keep running content because there's a chance you might get a TF |
| 05:40.16 | znf | I'm more annoyed about sockets and their value |
| 05:40.21 | Mr_Rabies | not really -required-, but many guilds will require people to keep doing stuff just for that little boost and that really tires folks out |
| 05:40.43 | znf | I don't really mind warforge/titanforge, just the whole socket thing |
| 05:40.56 | znf | because I find that level or RNG simply stupid |
| 05:41.05 | Mr_Rabies | I think if gems are going to be pretty low-cost as they are now, certain pieces should just always have a socket |
| 05:41.12 | Mr_Rabies | and not RNG |
| 05:41.25 | znf | even if you slot-machine a 455 item right now, a 445 with socket has the potential to be better |
| 05:41.27 | znf | which kind of sucks |
| 05:41.50 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i have 445s that are worse than 425s because they have sockets (and also their benthic procs) |
| 05:44.05 | Mr_Rabies | i really don't like RNG items dropping from raids in general TBH |
| 05:44.26 | Mr_Rabies | would be okay with them coming from 5 man content so that it could rarely be near or equal to raid gear |
| 05:44.31 | Mr_Rabies | but otherwise is always inferior |
| 05:44.54 | znf | benthics are another animal all-together |
| 05:45.02 | znf | I hope they learned from this mistake and they never do that again |
| 05:45.18 | Mr_Rabies | the original sell was alt catchup |
| 05:45.21 | Mr_Rabies | which they actually kinda suck at |
| 05:45.27 | Mr_Rabies | and are instead BiS for a lot of specs |
| 05:45.42 | znf | the only boss I actually do care after the first 3, as Shadow, is Zaq |
| 05:45.42 | Mr_Rabies | if they were just a nice way to get decent gear for alts it would have been fine |
| 05:45.43 | znf | on mythic |
| 05:45.51 | Mr_Rabies | but right now farming them up to 825 takes a while on alts |
| 05:45.52 | znf | the rest, there's literally no decent items from that raid |
| 05:45.54 | znf | not for me |
| 05:46.02 | Mr_Rabies | and they end up being better than raid gear |
| 05:46.19 | Mr_Rabies | would rather 825 be easier to get to but no procs |
| 05:46.27 | znf | anyway, I really don't mind the actual iLvl bumbs from WF/TF, like I said, I just hate the sockets |
| 05:46.27 | Mr_Rabies | and put those procs on some of the raid gear |
| 05:46.34 | znf | bumps* |
| 05:46.44 | Mr_Rabies | i think WF is fine but TF is usually just too much |
| 05:46.58 | znf | If you're really unlucky and you get a 445 with socket as a drop, then you somehow get a 455 without a socket, you can't even trade it, but it's a downgrade |
| 05:47.10 | Mr_Rabies | it sucks to get a piece and use it for like 2 tiers as much as it sucks to have gear thrown at you left and right |
| 05:47.12 | znf | It's just a shame |
| 05:47.58 | Mr_Rabies | i don't like stuff like that bother me since gear drops so readily at this point that it took me like a week to get mostly BIS gear this tier |
| 05:48.18 | Mr_Rabies | within spitting distance at least |
| 05:48.27 | Mr_Rabies | if i just ignore WF/TF |
| 05:49.37 | Mr_Rabies | every time we bring a new recruit to a raid they end up getting like 5-6 pieces of gear lol |
| 05:49.41 | znf | yeah, but that's not their goal |
| 05:49.51 | znf | they want you to log on every week for the raid/dungeons & stuff |
| 05:50.02 | Mr_Rabies | i just raid now, i don't do dungeons |
| 05:50.10 | Mr_Rabies | i got one piece of 445 from dungeons and called it there |
| 05:50.11 | znf | if there's no incentive for you to raid again, you just get burned |
| 05:50.13 | Mr_Rabies | i hate them too much to bother |
| 05:50.30 | Mr_Rabies | and i haven't needed a single piece of gear for like 2 months now or more maybe |
| 05:51.24 | Mr_Rabies | i still like raiding because it's my guild and i just love raiding with them |
| 05:51.28 | znf | well, you play feral and you are pretty casual, so most things don't really apply to you :D |
| 05:51.41 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i'm sorta casual but not for my server |
| 05:51.46 | Mr_Rabies | i'm actually super hardcore for my server |
| 05:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | we're tied for #3 and we're 2/8 Mythic |
| 05:52.12 | Mr_Rabies | i've just given up on being much more hardcore because my server has been dead for a very long time |
| 05:52.24 | znf | I've 4/8 and I don't have a guild, just saying... |
| 05:52.31 | znf | I'm* |
| 05:52.34 | Mr_Rabies | you would be #2 on the server |
| 05:52.37 | Mr_Rabies | our #1 guild is 4/8 |
| 05:52.54 | znf | I could go 5/8 if I could be bothered to show for a pug every Monday |
| 05:52.57 | Mr_Rabies | getting 20 players on a dead server is next to impossible |
| 05:53.06 | Mr_Rabies | we ended up running 19 man for 2 weeks in a row |
| 05:53.12 | Mr_Rabies | our first sivara kill was 19 man |
| 05:53.12 | znf | oh, actually, the pug I was doing stuff with just killed 6/8 today |
| 05:53.15 | znf | just checked their discord |
| 05:53.21 | Mr_Rabies | and we spammed in trade chat for an hour and a half before hand |
| 05:53.31 | Mr_Rabies | and an hour into the raid as well, actually |
| 05:53.35 | Mr_Rabies | not a single whisper |
| 05:53.58 | Mr_Rabies | https://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/connected-llane |
| 05:53.59 | znf | I insist on the fact that the Mythic lockouts are too restrictive |
| 05:54.14 | znf | They should just allow you to join different lockouts with the same progress |
| 05:54.14 | Mr_Rabies | i think they should go cross-realm and open lockout when the hall of fame unlocks |
| 05:54.26 | Mr_Rabies | and lets you xrealm, flex raid, and join different lockouts |
| 05:54.27 | znf | Sure, don't count mixed kills for hall of fame, who cares |
| 05:54.39 | Mr_Rabies | i'd be okay with that happening at that point |
| 05:54.39 | znf | but if I want bash my head against the wall as a mixed group, let me |
| 05:55.01 | Mr_Rabies | i think by that point the raid is trivial to the hardcore guys anyway for the most part |
| 05:55.26 | Mr_Rabies | alliance are at 71 kills so far |
| 05:55.35 | znf | yup |
| 05:55.55 | Mr_Rabies | i would be 100% okay with mythic losing all restrictions on it that aren't there for heroic once the HoF unlocks |
| 05:56.06 | znf | it's very annoying for our server, which has great pugging communities |
| 05:56.14 | znf | but you don't want to risk getting saved to a "bad" group |
| 05:56.44 | znf | and you have to find a good group on reset day, you can't join another one later in the week if you killed 3 bosses, but then you find a group for a 4th one |
| 05:56.54 | Mr_Rabies | i'm okay with that at first at least |
| 05:57.03 | Mr_Rabies | but i'd say pop that off once the hof unlocks |
| 05:57.16 | Mr_Rabies | if they're gonna keep making these raids so easy |
| 05:58.11 | znf | well, if they're gonna do that, unlock it for each faction when the hall fills up... |
| 05:58.18 | znf | it's a bummer to wait for the other faction to fill up |
| 05:58.22 | Mr_Rabies | that's a bad idea |
| 05:58.37 | Mr_Rabies | if they're going to do that they should unlock it for both factions when one gets 100 |
| 05:58.54 | Mr_Rabies | literally everyone would just go horde if they made it unlock for one first |
| 05:59.00 | Mr_Rabies | already almost everyone has |
| 05:59.04 | Mr_Rabies | it would just make it way worse |
| 05:59.09 | znf | horde has been full for a month now |
| 05:59.21 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, there are way, way more horde raiders |
| 05:59.23 | znf | oh wait |
| 05:59.25 | znf | alliance is full too |
| 05:59.35 | znf | nvm |
| 05:59.37 | znf | wrong click |
| 05:59.41 | znf | 71 :-| |
| 06:00.04 | znf | but, honestly, I don't even care that much for x-realm mythic pugs, just a more flexible lockout system |
| 06:00.14 | znf | at least for me, my realm is pretty active |
| 06:00.26 | Mr_Rabies | i'd say it's all tied together |
| 06:00.33 | Mr_Rabies | mythic is mythic until it's not anymore, when the hof unlocks |
| 06:01.04 | Mr_Rabies | at that point it's not really mythic, so go ahead and take off the realm size restriction, realm lock, and classic wow lockout system |
| 06:01.36 | znf | nah, keep size restrictions |
| 06:01.42 | znf | it's fine to have a fixed 20 people size |
| 06:01.46 | znf | it's tuned for that, it's ok |
| 06:02.20 | Mr_Rabies | i think that's being pretty arbitrary |
| 06:02.41 | Mr_Rabies | it's also designed for guilds to run, not really pugs |
| 06:03.07 | Mr_Rabies | it sucks to have to bench people to drop down to 20 |
| 06:03.22 | Mr_Rabies | when we did that earlier this tier we wound up dropping to about 16 lol |
| 06:03.26 | Mr_Rabies | from 22 |
| 06:03.34 | znf | sure it is |
| 06:03.36 | Mr_Rabies | all in one night |
| 06:03.46 | znf | but, again, if I want to bang my head against it with a pug, let me do it |
| 06:04.17 | Mr_Rabies | you'll have lots of insane split raid stuff with the top tier guys, way worse than it is now |
| 06:04.41 | Mr_Rabies | would sorta kill it unless it was held back for HoF |
| 06:05.54 | znf | how would that change? :) |
| 06:06.37 | znf | they're doing it now in this form, how would allowing a more flexibile (not the current flexible loot-based lockout) lockout change anything? |
| 06:08.08 | Mr_Rabies | the race for world first would get even more stupid, at least |
| 06:08.17 | Mr_Rabies | any leeway on that would be abused 1000% |
| 06:08.38 | znf | how |
| 06:08.44 | znf | I want you to explain it to me :) |
| 06:09.18 | Mr_Rabies | they could get really creative with mixing alts and pugs even more than now |
| 06:09.34 | Mr_Rabies | swapping out for specific bosses, etc |
| 06:09.52 | znf | and that changes from how it is now, because...? |
| 06:09.53 | Mr_Rabies | and no risk of someone stealing your lockout to screw you over |
| 06:10.11 | Mr_Rabies | because it'd be less restrictive, therefore it would be abused |
| 06:10.24 | znf | I want you to think of an actual way that it could be abused |
| 06:10.28 | Mr_Rabies | i think all the restrictions on mythic are very important until it goes crossrealm in which case they should all come down |
| 06:11.03 | znf | with the current way the faction race progresses, I find it completely irrelevant to be honest |
| 06:11.15 | znf | the x-realm unlock is completely pointless this late in the patch |
| 06:11.24 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's important for people to see the real mythic while it's available |
| 06:11.54 | Mr_Rabies | it's not pointless at all, plenty of guilds are just going to be killing heroic azshara as the HoF unlocks |
| 06:11.54 | znf | if they haven't seen it by now, they won't see it just because they unlocked x-realm |
| 06:12.16 | Mr_Rabies | not true, we always bring in pugs that have never seen it once it unlocks if we have room |
| 06:12.26 | znf | x-realm unlock won't magically let them kill azshara mythic |
| 06:12.40 | Mr_Rabies | since 20 is better than 19 on many fights even if #20 has never seen the fight |
| 06:12.51 | Mr_Rabies | no, but it might let them kill sivara mythic |
| 06:13.01 | znf | bullshit, c'mon |
| 06:13.17 | Mr_Rabies | i've seen it first-hand plenty of times just this expansion |
| 06:13.19 | znf | you will not get a 7/8 Heroic person to join for Mythic 1st boss |
| 06:13.30 | znf | because you will always prefer the person who already has done it |
| 06:13.41 | Mr_Rabies | we have done it every time we are below 20 |
| 06:13.53 | Mr_Rabies | either on-server or cross-server as available |
| 06:14.12 | Mr_Rabies | because the person who has never done it also isn't saved to it |
| 06:14.13 | znf | just like it is right now in pugs locked to a realm - it's almost impossible to get invited to a mythic pug if you haven't killed the bosses already |
| 06:15.01 | znf | In a lot of the cases, I would rather go 19 people than bring a 20th person in who hasn't done it before, the potential of him fucking it up majorly are too high |
| 06:15.27 | Mr_Rabies | in many cases the chance for them to screw it up for others is pretty low, especially on the early bosses |
| 06:15.47 | Mr_Rabies | sivara the worst you can do is like, set off more raid aoe |
| 06:15.49 | znf | 1st boss - he goes on the wrong side for his color, gets constantly hit by the barrage, thus the group takes more aoe damage |
| 06:16.10 | znf | 2nd boss - he gets barb, told to sacrifice himself, but he goes stand on a healer/dps |
| 06:16.12 | Mr_Rabies | eh, so far hasn't been a problem and if it was we could fix it pretty quickly |
| 06:16.16 | znf | poof, you get 2 people killed |
| 06:16.27 | Mr_Rabies | this isn't a pug where half the raid leaves after one wipe |
| 06:16.34 | Mr_Rabies | this is a guild, so we just help the guy learn it instead |
| 06:16.44 | znf | 3rd - he places tornadoes wrong, he screws up the location of the add |
| 06:16.46 | Mr_Rabies | (and hope he'll transfer over to us) |
| 06:17.16 | Mr_Rabies | as much as i sort of hate to get people to transfer to our dead server it's really our own option |
| 06:17.17 | znf | 4th boss - he doesn't do anything about the coral breaking, plus, he also manages to kill a healer/dps |
| 06:17.36 | Mr_Rabies | all of those are things that can be fixed in one wipe, generally |
| 06:17.37 | znf | I've known you about 2-3 years now, and you've been playing on the same crap, dead server |
| 06:17.45 | Mr_Rabies | i've been on the same server since 2004 |
| 06:17.50 | znf | The time for you to move was 10 years ago |
| 06:17.55 | Mr_Rabies | probably |
| 06:18.16 | Mr_Rabies | but it's very expensive to move all my characters, and i really would hate to pay blizzard hundreds of dollars to fix their problem |
| 06:18.20 | Mr_Rabies | our server isn't even low pop |
| 06:18.22 | Mr_Rabies | it's medium |
| 06:18.26 | znf | It's not their problem. It's yours. |
| 06:18.33 | Mr_Rabies | there are dozens of more dead servers |
| 06:18.41 | znf | You are literally paying a monthly sub for a half-assed experience |
| 06:18.41 | Mr_Rabies | than ours, and i don't really understand how |
| 06:18.48 | Mr_Rabies | for now |
| 06:19.00 | Mr_Rabies | if the experience gets much worse i'll prob just unsub |
| 06:19.11 | znf | I severely doubt that they will magically fix the population issue somehow |
| 06:19.18 | znf | They stopped doing merges years ago |
| 06:19.19 | Mr_Rabies | they were working on it but they stopped |
| 06:19.25 | Mr_Rabies | our server is already merged with another |
| 06:19.29 | Mr_Rabies | and we're that dead lol |
| 06:19.36 | Mr_Rabies | we're Llane/Arygos |
| 06:19.51 | znf | new and old people gravitate towards high-pop servers because that's where the action is |
| 06:20.11 | Mr_Rabies | it's basically all going high pop horde |
| 06:20.14 | Mr_Rabies | that's where everyone is going |
| 06:20.23 | znf | Queues haven't been a problem except for the first 1-2 weeks of a new expansion |
| 06:20.25 | Mr_Rabies | and blizzard is making bank by not fixing it |
| 06:20.52 | Mr_Rabies | just waiting for the switcheroo where they change all the alliance racials to be OP to make even more money on transfers |
| 06:20.54 | znf | As of now, there's really no actual downside to stay on a high-pop servers |
| 06:22.13 | Mr_Rabies | it would be $350 to transfer my characters over |
| 06:23.07 | Mr_Rabies | or 4.2 million gold |
| 06:23.19 | znf | you don't need all of them :) |
| 06:23.39 | Mr_Rabies | yeah i do, i play them all when i'm not bored of the game lol |
| 06:23.52 | znf | you can level new ones |
| 06:24.00 | Mr_Rabies | not worth it |
| 06:24.02 | znf | I moved 2 only when I transferred |
| 06:24.23 | Mr_Rabies | i only have 2.8 mil gold :< |
| 06:24.30 | Mr_Rabies | if i did have the gold i might consider but |
| 06:24.54 | znf | gold is easy to come-by on a high-pop server :P |
| 06:24.57 | znf | move them one by one |
| 06:25.22 | Mr_Rabies | and what's the guarantee that server won't just be dead in a few years as all the rats flee again |
| 06:25.35 | Mr_Rabies | this server had a queue when i made my character |
| 06:25.57 | Mr_Rabies | my friends bailed on the server in vanilla to cho'gall |
| 06:26.01 | znf | Pick a top5 server |
| 06:26.05 | znf | Those don't change :) |
| 06:26.07 | Mr_Rabies | because they thought llane was dead |
| 06:26.15 | Mr_Rabies | and now cho'gall is even more dead than llane |
| 06:26.20 | Mr_Rabies | it basically never goes above low pop |
| 06:26.21 | znf | Or, even better. Pick the #1 in population |
| 06:27.26 | nevcairiel | the time of big fluctuations is over, that only happened in the early years of wow, big realms now are going to stay big |
| 06:28.16 | Mr_Rabies | until they don't |
| 06:28.24 | Mr_Rabies | until there's only one server that gets picked because people are fickle |
| 06:28.29 | Mr_Rabies | it might be the current #1, it might not be |
| 06:28.31 | znf | Mine hasn't changed in 7-8 years |
| 06:28.39 | znf | Big servers don't fluctuate anymore |
| 06:28.56 | nevcairiel | you are just making up excuses to be stupid |
| 06:29.10 | Mr_Rabies | the population is trending down, eventually unless blizzard fixes it will be basically 50 people playing a single player game and a couple servers that have a live popultation |
| 06:30.10 | znf | Stop dreaming that they will fix it |
| 06:30.19 | znf | They stopped making server merges |
| 06:30.29 | znf | They opted for other techs |
| 06:30.45 | znf | Sharding is their answer to that issue. |
| 06:31.06 | Mr_Rabies | sharding already existed but i guess it won, it's really dumb |
| 06:31.25 | Mr_Rabies | they should merge untl they have a bunch of servers that are like 60% of the size of the top server |
| 06:31.53 | znf | I might even dare to say that if their new AH tech scales nice, we will maybe even have region-wide auction houses |
| 06:32.07 | Mr_Rabies | that would be nice |
| 06:32.23 | Mr_Rabies | it sucks to not be able to get potions if you waited too long and tried to get them on a tuesday before raid |
| 06:32.44 | znf | The only thing that still makes realms relevant right now is mythic raiding and commodity trading |
| 06:32.51 | Ennea | speaking of, can somebody give me a quick summary of the new AH stuff? |
| 06:33.08 | znf | It's not gonna make it to classic :P |
| 06:33.15 | Ennea | i'm curious about it anyway |
| 06:33.26 | Mr_Rabies | they redid the UI to be much sleeker, and they split stackable items into essentially a seperate system |
| 06:33.42 | Mr_Rabies | no bids on stackables, and you can buy any amount you want |
| 06:33.57 | Ennea | ah |
| 06:34.01 | Ennea | that's a nice approach |
| 06:34.15 | Mr_Rabies | if they add buy orders to BoEs etc they will be set |
| 06:34.16 | znf | You list items for whatever price you want. Other people can buy how many they want |
| 06:34.25 | znf | No more stack screwing around |
| 06:34.31 | nevcairiel | i feel like buy orders for gear would be bad |
| 06:34.33 | Mr_Rabies | and when you list it shows you all the current listings too |
| 06:34.52 | Mr_Rabies | eh maybe nevcairiel, it depends on how they did it |
| 06:34.57 | znf | For gear, yeah, probably... But it would. Be nice for mats |
| 06:35.15 | Mr_Rabies | but i hate having a ton of useless transmog gear that i know people want |
| 06:35.28 | Mr_Rabies | but i'm too lazy to spend hours listing it every 2 days |
| 06:35.36 | znf | I just sell all my greens on Friday night |
| 06:35.44 | znf | People usually buy them on Saturday |
| 06:36.02 | znf | Fixed, set price. 225g/ea |
| 06:36.14 | znf | Cba to do more |
| 06:36.26 | Mr_Rabies | i buy all the greens on my AH that i don't know under 100g |
| 06:36.31 | znf | It's 15-20k gold / weekend |
| 06:36.46 | Mr_Rabies | which the new AH has a checkbox in the filters for "not learned yet" |
| 06:36.49 | Mr_Rabies | which is SUPER NICE |
| 06:37.05 | Mr_Rabies | i use Can I Mog it so i get the icons and stuff |
| 06:37.23 | Mr_Rabies | but would be nice to be able to just nix everything i don't need |
| 06:43.58 | Mr_Rabies | that's a good idea though, get on my bank alt and just list all the xmogs that haven't sold at this point at a flat price once a week, but it still takes forever |
| 06:44.14 | Mr_Rabies | i wish TSM wasn't such a UX disaster |
| 06:44.35 | Mr_Rabies | maybe it'll be easier with 8.3 |
| 06:44.48 | Mr_Rabies | to just use the default interface to do it instead |
| 06:45.18 | Mr_Rabies | i use auctionator for selling trade goods and auctioneer configured to only look at undermine journal for equipment |
| 06:46.35 | znf | The deposit is really too high to keep relisting them at stupid high prices |
| 06:52.35 | Mr_Rabies | it is interesting seeing why certain parts of the AH were designed that way in classic |
| 06:53.25 | Mr_Rabies | i use way more of the options available in classic because when an item is going for 20s and a 24 hour listing is 10s but you know it sells it's actually worth it to do a 2/8 hour auction |
| 06:53.40 | Mr_Rabies | but those died so long ago i forgot i ever used to do them, or bid on items or anything |
| 06:53.55 | Mr_Rabies | i've always been so rich after midway through TBC because i'm so cheap |
| 06:54.42 | Mr_Rabies | but i just got a hell of a deal on runecloth bags because i waited for an auction to almost expire before bidding |
| 06:57.05 | Ennea | did the same with the mageweave bags i have right now |
| 06:57.13 | Ennea | got one of them for just 50s, and the three others for 60s each |
| 06:57.17 | Ennea | what a fucking steal :D |
| 06:57.29 | nevcairiel | you know thats n ot a magic strategy or anything, thats how everyone uses ebay :p |
| 06:57.40 | Mr_Rabies | no, but i haven't had to do it in so long |
| 06:57.56 | Mr_Rabies | it's interesting to see WHY the AH was designed like it was, it was actually alright for vanilla |
| 06:58.03 | Mr_Rabies | but the game has changed so much then |
| 06:58.06 | Mr_Rabies | since then* |
| 06:58.11 | Mr_Rabies | and the AH is barely different |
| 06:58.21 | Ennea | nevcairiel, with the slight difference that people just list their shit with low starting bids in the AH for better visibility |
| 06:58.31 | Ennea | and count on somebody eventually using buyout to get their crap |
| 06:58.36 | Mr_Rabies | i am legit willing to pay a bounty on removing the librams from the recipe section on the AH while they're changing stuff |
| 06:58.39 | nevcairiel | much of ebay also starts at 1⬠|
| 06:58.47 | Mr_Rabies | those cursed librams have haunted me for years |
| 06:58.56 | Ennea | nevcairiel, but search results aren't typically ordered by bid price |
| 06:59.00 | Ennea | or, well.. you have other options |
| 06:59.03 | Ennea | unlike classic AH :D |
| 06:59.09 | Mr_Rabies | and ebay has reserve price, etc |
| 06:59.17 | Mr_Rabies | that sort of thing died on ebay forever ago too for the most part |
| 06:59.52 | Mr_Rabies | a lot of people also don't have any kind of addon for vendor price, so they list stuff below vendor price a LOT |
| 06:59.55 | Mr_Rabies | at least on skeram |
| 07:00.12 | nevcairiel | you dont even need an addon for that, you could just go see a vendor |
| 07:00.24 | Mr_Rabies | and write it down for each item, yeah |
| 07:00.38 | Mr_Rabies | i mean it's feasible but you should probably spend a second grabbing the addon instead |
| 07:13.33 | Mr_Rabies | auctionator handles it for me so i'm good lol |
| 08:07.05 | MooreaTv | usable checkbox has meant not yet learned for about 15 years already, nothing new there |
| 08:11.37 | MooreaTv | (for recipes) |
| 08:20.25 | nevcairiel | i suppose people assume that it applies to transmogs now |
| 08:20.32 | nevcairiel | not sure if anyone actually tested that |
| 08:26.14 | nevcairiel | raid testing already this week, 8.3 seems to be in a good spot development-wise |
| 08:36.27 | Mr_Rabies | no there's two checkboxes, MooreaTv |
| 08:36.49 | AcidWeb | https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/23179289 |
| 08:37.11 | AcidWeb | Well as expected Chinese money is more important for Blizzard than human rights. |
| 08:38.23 | Ennea | not even surprised |
| 08:39.35 | nevcairiel | Any company would act the same way, thats not a platform for your political opinions |
| 08:39.48 | Mr_Rabies | oaky i might be wrong MooreaTv, but there is an uncollected only checkbox now |
| 08:39.58 | Mr_Rabies | it seems to not apply to xmogs though for some reason at the moment |
| 08:40.06 | Mr_Rabies | https://i.imgur.com/BUDbCpG.png |
| 08:40.31 | AcidWeb | That only confirm how sick or world is nevcairiel. |
| 08:40.34 | MooreaTv | maybe for mog yes, dunno |
| 08:40.43 | AcidWeb | *our |
| 08:43.18 | nevcairiel | heck even any community would act the same way, there is plenty places to voice your politics, gaming events are not one of them |
| 08:43.57 | Mr_Rabies | i can tell you i would probably still be watching GDQ events if it wasn't so political at this point |
| 08:44.06 | Mr_Rabies | it's such a mess that i just gave up watching |
| 08:45.28 | Mr_Rabies | it's sort of the same as the kneeling on the court at the football game junk - that's not what people paid to see |
| 08:47.43 | Ennea | agreed |
| 08:47.51 | Ennea | i only watch a select few runs from any gdq |
| 08:47.57 | Ennea | if either the game or the runner is good |
| 08:48.01 | Ennea | don't care about anything else |
| 08:49.39 | AcidWeb | In my personal opinion every medium is allowed when you spread word about fighting for your country independence. |
| 08:50.01 | AcidWeb | When police start to shoot civilians all bets are off. Country failed as institution. |
| 08:51.26 | AcidWeb | But I'm Pole so my worldview in this matter can be crooked by our history. |
| 08:52.51 | Mr_Rabies | oh he should certainly be entitled to use his freedom of speech, but shouldn't be surprised when the company that is responsible for paying him gives him the boot in the process |
| 08:53.11 | AcidWeb | Oh I'm not surprised at all. |
| 08:53.26 | Mr_Rabies | even he said he's not surprised it happened |
| 08:53.27 | nevcairiel | "freedom of speech" does not apply in such a case anyway |
| 08:53.50 | Mr_Rabies | it certainly does, even if it's not recognized in china |
| 08:53.54 | AcidWeb | Just another day in world fueled by money and human suffering. |
| 08:54.04 | AcidWeb | AKA. Tuesday |
| 08:54.25 | nevcairiel | its a common misconception, it only protects you from the government, it doesnt give you the right to say anything anywhere |
| 08:54.40 | Mr_Rabies | that's not true, that's just the first amendment |
| 08:54.49 | Mr_Rabies | the concept should be appreciated everywhere |
| 08:54.54 | nevcairiel | the internet wants you to believe that "freedom of speech" means i cant ban you for saying nonsense |
| 08:54.56 | nevcairiel | but i can |
| 08:55.03 | Ennea | freedom of speech doesn't protect you from consequences |
| 08:55.07 | Ennea | you _can_ say whatever you want though ;D |
| 08:55.19 | nevcairiel | you can do that without freedom of speech too |
| 08:55.24 | nevcairiel | but then the government might kill you |
| 08:55.27 | nevcairiel | or something like that |
| 08:55.42 | Mr_Rabies | if you value freedom you should give your money to those that also value it, and not give money to those that don't |
| 08:55.50 | Ennea | well too bad |
| 08:55.57 | Ennea | i wanna play classic, and i paid my sub 6 months in advance already |
| 08:56.46 | nevcairiel | politics are always polarizing, no matter how "clear cut" something appears, which is why companies will always want to stay out of them |
| 08:56.52 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i was just saying the guy should have expected it, blizzard has become increasingly censorious to its regular users, their esports stuff is under way stricter regulations than that |
| 08:57.00 | nevcairiel | so they cant afford to give any side a platform |
| 08:57.16 | Mr_Rabies | they still do, but mostly only with politics they agree with |
| 08:58.02 | Mr_Rabies | https://gear.blizzard.com/us/blizzard-pride-pin |
| 08:58.27 | Ennea | pride is a safe bet |
| 08:58.38 | Ennea | lgbtbbq people will like you for it, and almost nobody will dislike you for it |
| 08:58.47 | nevcairiel | unless you are in russia, well, then its also a safe bet to get killed, i guess |
| 08:58.58 | Ennea | yea, the one exception i guess |
| 08:59.36 | Mr_Rabies | i'm guessing they don't sell that pin in russia or china, yeah |
| 08:59.46 | Mr_Rabies | just like editing the overwatch comics for those countries |
| 08:59.55 | Ennea | overwatch T_T |
| 09:00.01 | Mr_Rabies | they play safe politics and apparently they've worked out the math and supporting a murderous regime is worth it |
| 09:00.07 | Ennea | brutally murdered by blizzard |
| 09:00.35 | nevcairiel | i dont even know how china stands on the pride topic, considering they have a vast gender disparity, what are some of the single guys to do :p |
| 09:01.02 | AcidWeb | die in work camps probably |
| 09:04.36 | Mr_Rabies | they tend to demand it be removed from movies, etc and most companies are happy to do so to make the money |
| 09:05.10 | Mr_Rabies | so anytime a large company seems to support or not support any political topic, it means a dollar value has been applied to it and it can vary regionally |
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| 19:55.55 | znf | gotta love the pichforks against blizzard today |
| 19:57.06 | znf | that guy knows very well what he did and that there would have been consequences for his actions; he literally threw blizzard under a bus, knowing very well what companies have to do to operate in china |
| 20:09.11 | nebula | like, people don't realize blizzard doesn't have shit to do with what happened there, that was all netease doing china things in china |
| 20:20.43 | nevcairiel | Also that every single company would react similar since they can't afford to be political |
| 20:23.40 | foxlit | surely some companies would choose not to operate in markets with incompatible values. |
| 20:24.04 | nebula | you'd hope so, but china is just too big to ignore for most companies |
| 20:24.32 | foxlit | I mean, if local legislation required you to murder the 3 people who spend the most time logged into WoW in a month, you'd probably not want to operate there. |
| 20:24.59 | nebula | more like throw up your hands and go "well, thats what happens there" |
| 20:26.13 | nevcairiel | Was that tournament even in China, and not some global event some Chinese person took part in? |
| 20:26.24 | nebula | i thought it was in china |
| 20:26.48 | nevcairiel | I mean you could ban Chinese people as well at that point, but that's not any better then :p |
| 21:30.35 | Mr_Rabies | <foxlit> I mean, if local legislation required you to murder the 3 people who spend the most time logged into WoW in a month, you'd probably not want to operate there. |
| 21:30.51 | Mr_Rabies | i imagine much like anything else depends on how much money is to be made from that market |
| 21:37.11 | foxlit | that seems like a complete lack of ethics. |
| 21:38.25 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i'm not saying it's right, but if these large companies had any ethics they'd be out of china and the middle east for the most part |
| 21:39.40 | foxlit | and every time they publicly demonstrate that they don't, it's reasonable for pitchforks to appear. |
| 21:42.39 | nevcairiel | Who would realistically gain anything by a gaming company to pull out of china? |
| 21:42.51 | nevcairiel | Probably the most the chinese government. |
| 21:43.19 | Mr_Rabies | they would probably have the respect of their western audience but they've put a dollar value on that |
| 21:43.36 | Mr_Rabies | and right now chinese money is certainly more worth it than being ethical |
| 21:44.04 | nevcairiel | I just don't buy the argument that depriving chinese players of their gaming is "showing ethics" |
| 21:44.54 | Mr_Rabies | maybe if they had less stuff to do in their free time they'd spend it getting their country back |
| 21:45.20 | Mr_Rabies | doubtful, considering how well things went at tiananmen square |
| 21:46.39 | foxlit | the value isn't in depriving anyone of gaming, but in not putting yourself in a position where you'd have to compromise on your ethics to continue to earn money. |
| 21:48.08 | nevcairiel | regardless of what statement anyone made, I fully support banning any politicial statements from gaming events |
| 21:49.15 | Mr_Rabies | i think that's their perogative to do so but i imagine there are political opinions they'd be fine with people mentioning instead |
| 21:49.16 | foxlit | my point was that there is (or at least I hope there is!) a line past which no financial incentive can justify the costs. |
| 21:50.59 | Mr_Rabies | there's definitely a sliding scale and i imagine a hypothetical that required blizzard agents report the top x players by game time to the government with mobile kill squads for gaming addicts would probably be pretty high |
| 21:51.29 | Mr_Rabies | but as it stands i could certainly see blizzard having a meeting if that was required in china |
| 21:52.01 | Mr_Rabies | "well we're not the ones killing them we're just following the law" |
| 21:59.40 | znf | that's pretty absurd tough :) |
| 22:00.35 | nevcairiel | there is a vast difference between your actions directly involving unethical results, and simply not getting involved in other ethics-violations in the same country |
| 22:02.38 | Mr_Rabies | the unethical action isn't banning the guy, in my opinion, it's doing business in china in the first place |
| 22:02.58 | nevcairiel | do you buy products from china? |
| 22:03.16 | Mr_Rabies | only when i have no other choice |
| 22:03.23 | Mr_Rabies | i try to buy american when possible |
| 22:03.25 | foxlit | nevcairiel: the rule used was against "any act that brings you into public disrepute". |
| 22:03.54 | foxlit | which seems... broad. |
| 22:04.04 | Mr_Rabies | i especially don't buy any food products from china on purpose |
| 22:04.11 | Mr_Rabies | sometimes i forget to check |
| 22:04.16 | foxlit | like "you may not express any unpopular opinions, ever" broad. |
| 22:04.20 | Mr_Rabies | but that's more for health reasons than ethics, i guess |
| 22:04.29 | nevcairiel | EU largely protects us from weird chinese food imports :p |
| 22:05.36 | Mr_Rabies | lots of candy is being made over there now :( |
| 22:05.43 | Mr_Rabies | which like |
| 22:05.44 | Mr_Rabies | i know |
| 22:05.45 | nevcairiel | but not using any chinese-made products is a very hard and concious job, and i bet that 99.9% of everyone being outraged and saying they should show ethics and pull out of china is probably not bothering with that at all |
| 22:05.49 | Mr_Rabies | >health reasons |
| 22:05.50 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 22:06.49 | Mr_Rabies | yeah it's pretty much impossible to buy anything electronic without at least some chinese parts in it unfortunately |
| 22:07.25 | nevcairiel | i'm outraged on my iPhone, manufactured in china! |
| 22:07.38 | foxlit | I don't think complete consistency is necessary or desirable. |
| 22:07.52 | Mr_Rabies | i try to, when i have a choice, give my money to people who provide jobs to americans but yeah certainly not always feasible |
| 22:08.36 | Mr_Rabies | my phone is from china, hell it's even a lenovo, but man it was a good deal at the time lol |
| 22:08.58 | Mr_Rabies | it was a $200 phone that did about 80% of the flagships that were also made in china but cost $800 |
| 22:09.39 | nevcairiel | but inconsistency is a stone throw from hypocrisy, its easy to ask for a company to pull out of china if it doesnt affect you at all, but would they pay twice as much for many products if they were made elsewhere? |
| 22:09.43 | foxlit | (like it's okay to switch to energy-saving lightbulbs even if you don't plan on moving to a self-sufficient farm in the middle of nowhere) |
| 22:12.52 | foxlit | people do like their "made in the USA" stickers. |
| 22:13.33 | nevcairiel | "made in the USA (with chinese parts)", unfortunately the sticker didn't have room for the full text |
| 22:14.36 | znf | I surely wouldn't want "Made in the USA" phones with "USA parts" |
| 22:14.54 | znf | Wouldn't be able to afford them anyway |
| 22:15.02 | Mr_Rabies | some industries have regulations about like "assembled in the USA with domestic and foreign parts" but it's certainly not consistent |
| 22:15.12 | Mr_Rabies | that or companies simply choose to put that labeling on |
| 22:15.13 | Mr_Rabies | not sure |
| 22:15.35 | nevcairiel | the FTC regulation is something like 75% of manufacturing cost has to be in the US |
| 22:15.48 | znf | emphasis on manufacturing |
| 22:16.02 | nevcairiel | considering the cost disparity between china and the US, that can easily mean more then half of it is chinese |
| 22:16.13 | foxlit | consumer choice is perhaps a poor proxy -- supply chains are muddy, and choice is rather limited -- you can't have "this, but made in Sweden." |
| 22:16.49 | nevcairiel | the point is, do those ethic zealots even try? or do they just jump on some ethics bandwagon to feel good for a day? |
| 22:16.51 | Mr_Rabies | it's easy to corner the market on a lot of things when people are barely getting paid for their labor |
| 22:17.32 | Mr_Rabies | hell there's people using that as an excuse for illegal immigration in this country right now, "The cost of goods will go up if you can only hire legal labor!" |
| 22:18.07 | Mr_Rabies | (literally an argument for slavery back in the day, as well) |
| 22:18.27 | foxlit | Does it matter? The "I don't like this -> I'm not going to support this" sequence of events seems consistent enough to me. |
| 22:18.59 | foxlit | maybe "I don't like this -> I'm going to complain loudly on social media -> I'm still going to support this" is more annoying. |
| 22:20.52 | Mr_Rabies | i'm typically the kind of person that doesn't complain about products but i simply stop buying them if i have a good enough reason |
| 22:21.14 | nevcairiel | not buying them is the best thing in any case |
| 22:21.16 | Mr_Rabies | i haven't bitched about EA or ubisoft but haven't bought one of their games in over 10 years |
| 22:21.53 | Mr_Rabies | i've mostly stopped buying blizzard games simply due to a slip in quality, but i do still pay for a wow sub |
| 22:22.14 | nevcairiel | its not like blizzard really sells many new games :p |
| 22:22.32 | Mr_Rabies | overwatch was really the straw that broke the camel's back for me |
| 22:22.33 | nevcairiel | I tend to judge each game individually, going by "who made it" is usually just silly |
| 22:22.34 | znf | how do I stop loading keybinds from the server? |
| 22:22.48 | znf | my keybinds from live keep being overwritten on PTR, for some reasons |
| 22:22.49 | Mr_Rabies | there's a cvar i think, znf, one sec |
| 22:23.32 | znf | but weirdly just for a new char |
| 22:24.03 | Mr_Rabies | i would, nevcairiel, but they have their own garbage launchers and refuse to list on steam so it makes it easier |
| 22:24.23 | Mr_Rabies | well ubisoft might still, i forget |
| 22:24.41 | znf | what's wrong with overwatch...? |
| 22:24.41 | nevcairiel | ubisoft has their launcher but still sells through steam or epic or whatever flavor of the month |
| 22:25.10 | Mr_Rabies | i could put together a huge list of my issues with overwatch but it'd be a waste of time |
| 22:25.32 | Mr_Rabies | to simplify it's not fun and queuing for multiplayer is a plague i want no part of anymore |
| 22:25.53 | znf | So, what you mean is "FPS games are not for me" |
| 22:26.03 | Mr_Rabies | modern fps games maybe |
| 22:26.22 | Mr_Rabies | but if a game can steal your money for saying stuff in it i'm probably not going to buy it |
| 22:26.32 | Mr_Rabies | i give wow a pass because i'm already addicted |
| 22:26.48 | nevcairiel | I hate any sort of games where you get randomly matched with other people, because thats always a recipe for disaster. But I tend to play any multiplayer games only with a set group of people, so that factor often eludes me then |
| 22:27.06 | Mr_Rabies | cvar is synchronizeBindings, znf |
| 22:27.15 | Mr_Rabies | 0/1 |
| 22:27.57 | Mr_Rabies | yeah i don't really care for matchmaking or games that will ban you for trash talk etc |
| 22:28.16 | nevcairiel | i actually enjoy the ban thing, because I don't do it, and I can report people |
| 22:28.17 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 22:28.42 | Mr_Rabies | i like servers with their own house rules instead |
| 22:28.56 | nevcairiel | whats wrong with not cursing or insulting people |
| 22:28.59 | Mr_Rabies | if a server has rules you can't abide by, go somewhere else |
| 22:29.04 | nevcairiel | i dont understand how that being forbidden is a bad thing |
| 22:29.24 | Mr_Rabies | because that enviornment is really enjoyable to me |
| 22:29.54 | nevcairiel | so you like living in a cesspool? you should move to mmo-c off-topic forums :p |
| 22:30.12 | Mr_Rabies | i've been a regular on 4chan since 2003 soooo |
| 22:30.15 | Mr_Rabies | yeah pretty much |
| 22:31.37 | znf | meh, I broke PTR |
| 22:31.44 | znf | I logged off in a place that I can't log on anymore :D |
| 22:32.30 | Mr_Rabies | i try to play nice in here because it's Cairenn's channel and she has the house rules set pretty strictly in place |
| 22:32.57 | znf | Mr_Rabies, I mean, that's a pretty shit thing to say :P |
| 22:33.38 | Mr_Rabies | how's that? i respect the fact that this is her channel and try to follow her rules as best I can |
| 22:33.54 | Mr_Rabies | if the rules were really untenable i would just leave |
| 22:33.56 | znf | abou the cesspool of a play environment |
| 22:34.06 | znf | I admit, I got tilted and went off-board sometimes and got silenced in game |
| 22:34.35 | znf | but that doesn't mean it was OK |
| 22:34.38 | Mr_Rabies | i've actually never been actioned for behavior because the only game i play with those kind of rules is wow |
| 22:35.03 | Mr_Rabies | and i again play by the house rules in that one game, but would prefer they not exist |
| 22:35.38 | znf | bah, the race change doesn't work at all on the PTR |
| 22:35.39 | nevcairiel | if someone is really terrible I usually just leave and/or curse in real life or on private voice, never in chat or public voice (also, I usually never use public voice, first thing I disable in any game, apparently every single game today has it as well) |
| 22:35.40 | znf | :( |
| 22:35.49 | Mr_Rabies | it's a portion of why i don't play overwatch anymore, but not the only reason |
| 22:36.03 | znf | yeah, I don't get who ever tought public voice would be an OK thing for games |
| 22:37.02 | Mr_Rabies | if it was a good enough game i'd probably live with it since i already paid for it before realizing how ban happy the moderators are |
| 22:37.45 | Mr_Rabies | i was just happy having an fps game where i didn't have to unlock a bunch of junk and could just play the characters but the matchmaking is garbage and the new characters and patch changes have just been a death by 1000 cuts |
| 22:39.05 | znf | I could explain to you how those things are damn good, and because it's an ever changing game makes it actually nce |
| 22:39.08 | znf | I could explain to you how those things are damn good, and because it's an ever changing game makes it actually nice |
| 22:39.18 | znf | and not having to buy "Season Passes" every 3 months for new maps |
| 22:39.28 | znf | But it would fall on deaf ears, so why bother |
| 22:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Nimhfree_ (~scott@mail.mithrandir.com) |
| 22:40.24 | znf | bah, guess I'm stuck now https://i.imgur.com/azyETXN.png |
| 22:40.38 | nevcairiel | just make a new char |
| 22:41.11 | Mr_Rabies | change for the sake of change is part of why wow is in the state it's currently in, but with OW it mostly just felt like all the new characters are redundant and part of why i stopped playing TF2 |
| 22:41.35 | Mr_Rabies | basically each new character is like all the new weapons for TF2 |
| 22:42.04 | znf | nevcairiel, I had /just/ set up the UI for that :( |
| 22:42.20 | nevcairiel | delete it and name it the same |
| 22:42.30 | znf | plus I had some progress on it already :( |
| 22:42.46 | znf | just gonna wait until tomorrow, I crashed in the invasion area |
| 22:42.51 | Mr_Rabies | it just muddies the strategy and at first it was alright in TF2 but after so so many weapons for each class it started to get dumb |
| 22:42.53 | znf | so maybe it's related to that |
| 23:00.35 | Mr_Rabies | that's fine i've suddenly got an acetimer yelling at me |
| 23:01.19 | Mr_Rabies | gallywix and bfa invasion timer both seem to be bugging out today despite not updating anything since yesterday, weird |
