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| 07:08.23 | Industrial | Hi. My wow is stuck on "logging in to game server". It has been for a few days. Doing a repair does nothing. Should I just do a complete reinstall? |
| 07:10.44 | nevcairiel | you know this isnt really wow tech support |
| 07:26.59 | Mr_Rabies | try renaming your wtf folder first just for the heck of it Industrial |
| 07:27.52 | Mr_Rabies | and/or delete the cache folder, i know i sound like a wow gm but i'm not suggesting you delete the wtf folder because that's stupid lol :v |
| 07:27.54 | Ennea | nevcairiel, spontaneously repurposed ;D |
| 07:28.24 | nevcairiel | well he has been asking before and not getting anywhere, so he might as well tr y proper help |
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| 07:28.44 | Mr_Rabies | could also have something to do with the ddos stuff |
| 07:29.04 | Ennea | that was.. i believe two days ago? |
| 07:29.13 | Ennea | i don't think blizz have their countermeasures active now still |
| 07:29.16 | Mr_Rabies | they may have some protection in place that is unfortunately blocking legitimate customers |
| 07:29.20 | Mr_Rabies | it's still happening, as far as i know |
| 07:29.24 | Ennea | ah |
| 07:29.29 | Ennea | seems they're handling it quite well, then |
| 07:29.31 | Mr_Rabies | because the classic servers were crashing like crazy yesterday and today |
| 07:29.38 | Ennea | hm |
| 07:29.40 | Ennea | just US, i assume? |
| 07:29.44 | Ennea | not having any issues on EU |
| 07:29.50 | Mr_Rabies | possibly |
| 07:29.58 | Mr_Rabies | they were legit crashes though so i dunno |
| 07:30.02 | Mr_Rabies | like mobs respawning and stuff |
| 07:30.12 | Mr_Rabies | though could just be like everyone got dced so the layers collapsed |
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| 08:47.12 | Industrial | Mr_Rabies: I reinstalled the game, same thing :( I'm using Lutrix (wine) on Ubuntu stable |
| 08:47.27 | Industrial | It worked fine before, though :S |
| 08:49.15 | Ennea | ah, linux.. might be related to the ddos protection stuff, yea. some people on the official forums also posted saying they can't log in anymore on linux |
| 08:50.11 | Chipzz | Industrial: reinstalling the game sounds like a dumb move and especially a waste of bandwidth |
| 08:50.36 | Chipzz | Industrial: all Blizzard games are self-contained in their own dir and that dir is movable |
| 08:51.35 | Chipzz | I don't believe WoW (or any other Blizz) game uses the registry (WoW does use it to transfer battle.net token for automatic login, but that's a transient one) |
| 08:52.38 | Chipzz | settings are saved in the WTF folder; and then there's the cache oc |
| 08:53.00 | Industrial | Chipzz: yeah I saw that by removing/renaming the _classic_ dir |
| 08:53.27 | Industrial | Ennea: hmm, crap :( My windows desktop-replacement battery died after 5 yrs |
| 08:54.18 | Industrial | I thought a DDOS only involved just smashing ppl with requests/packets. They use the wow client itself to cause connection drama? |
| 08:54.50 | Ennea | no matter how the ddos is done, it seems like blizzard's countermeasures are also affecting some normal users |
| 08:56.05 | Ennea | https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/linux-users-unable-to-log-in-wow51900328-329-error-after-logging-in/292402/284 |
| 08:56.10 | Ennea | there's this blue post, though |
| 08:57.14 | Chipzz | I strongly doubt it was done with the official client |
| 08:57.26 | Chipzz | much more likely it's a self-written tool |
| 08:58.57 | Ennea | definitely |
| 08:59.19 | Ennea | one guess from the thread i linked is just that tls headers are being scanned, and anything with any traces from gnutls is discarded |
| 08:59.36 | Ennea | which would make sense for a very simple but effective countermeasure, and also explain linux users being affected |
| 08:59.58 | Ennea | further down are people talking about only packets with a certain TTL being blocked |
| 09:00.07 | Ennea | so maybe adjusting the default TTL on your system will help |
| 09:00.19 | Chipzz | uhm, say what? |
| 09:00.29 | Chipzz | you can't adjust TTL *facepalm* |
| 09:00.47 | Ennea | on linux? |
| 09:00.53 | Ennea | i'd be surprised if there's anything you can't adjust |
| 09:00.53 | Chipzz | on any system |
| 09:01.14 | Ennea | as an example: https://askubuntu.com/questions/667096/how-to-change-the-default-ttl-of-tcp-ip-packets |
| 09:01.19 | Chipzz | do you even know what TTL *is*?? |
| 09:01.37 | Ennea | time to live |
| 09:02.05 | Ennea | it's part of the packets you're sending, why would you not be able to change that o.O |
| 09:02.51 | Chipzz | if you're asking that question, I would recommend you google how traceroute works... |
| 09:03.12 | Ennea | "The ip_default_ttl variable tells the kernel what Time To Live to set as default on packets that leaves this host." |
| 09:03.17 | Ennea | i dunno, that sounds pretty straight forward |
| 09:03.18 | Ennea | try again? |
| 09:03.31 | Chipzz | no, figure out how traceroute works and then you try again :P |
| 09:03.39 | Ennea | no, you |
| 09:03.47 | Ennea | you're trying to school me here |
| 09:03.49 | Chipzz | no, I'm right and you're wrong; you try again |
| 09:03.58 | Chipzz | yes because it's needed apparently |
| 09:04.02 | Ennea | you can't properly explain what part of my thought process is wrong |
| 09:04.04 | Chipzz | ignorance and all that |
| 09:04.19 | Ennea | and you just brush it off with "just look this up" |
| 09:04.27 | Chipzz | yeah I can; lack of understanding on how network traffic works |
| 09:04.52 | Chipzz | no, I don't /just/ brush it off. Which you would *know* if you weren't ignorant on how traceroute works... |
| 09:05.08 | Ennea | let me rephrase: each network packet has a ttl field. the default value for this on linux can be changed. am i wrong? |
| 09:05.44 | Chipzz | I'll give you a hint: traceroute starts with a TTL of 1 and increases that |
| 09:05.56 | Chipzz | which is how you know what hops are between you and the target |
| 09:06.24 | Ennea | i think you need to look that up again yourself |
| 09:06.26 | Chipzz | the default TTL really should be sane and you shouldn't need to tweak it |
| 09:06.32 | Ennea | the TTL field in an ip packet is decreased by one at every hope |
| 09:06.36 | Ennea | *hop |
| 09:06.41 | Ennea | and is discarded once it reaches zero |
| 09:06.46 | Chipzz | nope, I am someone with years of network experience, 100% you're the one who's wrong |
| 09:07.17 | Chipzz | you should probably stop arguing and look up how traceroute works, because you're making a fool out of yourself ;) |
| 09:07.29 | Ennea | explain ip_default_ttl to me, then |
| 09:07.57 | Ennea | and take a look at the ttl description on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Header and tell me why it's explained as it is |
| 09:08.02 | Chipzz | in 2 words: a hack that should never be needed |
| 09:08.36 | Chipzz | linux gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot; doesn't mean every knob you can adjust needs adjusting |
| 09:09.30 | Ennea | your first statement was that TTL can't be adjusted, when it obviously can be. then you said TTL starts with 1 and it increases from there, which is the opposite of the definition for the ipv4 header |
| 09:09.41 | Chipzz | in 20 years of using linux, neither me nor anyone I know has ever had the need to adjust that value; because it has a sane default |
| 09:09.49 | Ennea | where it starts with any value, decreases by one on every hop and is discarded when it reaches 0 |
| 09:09.56 | Chipzz | no, you're misreading |
| 09:10.01 | Chipzz | 11:05 < Chipzz> I'll give you a hint: traceroute starts with a TTL of 1 and increases that |
| 09:10.08 | Chipzz | I said that's what *traceroute* does |
| 09:10.23 | Ennea | what makes traceroute relevant in this case, then? |
| 09:10.25 | Chipzz | notice how there's more than 1 hop on a route |
| 09:11.09 | Chipzz | how traceeroute works: send out packet with TTL 1; packets gets bounced at 1st hop; increase TTL and send out the same packet with TTL 2, packet gets bounced at 2nd hop |
| 09:11.19 | Chipzz | rinse and repeat until you reach your destination |
| 09:11.43 | Ennea | that explains how traceroute works at least, that's good to know, i wasn't aware of that |
| 09:11.48 | Ennea | but that has nothing to do with the original topic |
| 09:11.58 | Chipzz | it does |
| 09:12.08 | Ennea | which was somebody saying that blizzard may be looking at the ttl field of their network packets to filter out potential ddos packets |
| 09:12.09 | Chipzz | traceroute can do that because it's setuid root |
| 09:12.20 | Ennea | because seemingly/apparently, many linux distros have a default hop limit of 255 |
| 09:12.25 | Chipzz | regular programs like WoW can't |
| 09:12.30 | Ennea | oh, yea |
| 09:12.31 | Ennea | WoW can't |
| 09:12.34 | Ennea | but you can do it system wide |
| 09:13.03 | Ennea | and if the assumption is correct that blizz may be filtering packets from the ttl, and if many linux distros do in fact have it set to 255 |
| 09:13.10 | Ennea | then setting it to 128 or 129 might help |
| 09:13.20 | Ennea | nothing about that is wrong, and you can change it |
| 09:13.24 | Ennea | on both windows and linux, actually |
| 09:13.27 | Ennea | but you just said it's not possible |
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| 09:14.22 | Chipzz | it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to check the TTL; default TTL value is dependant on TCP/IP stack implementation |
| 09:15.01 | Ennea | yea, i agree it doesn't make much sense |
| 09:15.30 | Ennea | but if the default on many distros is 255, as opposed to windows' 128/129, i can see somebody making the very naive decision to block any with anything higher than some value bigger than 128 |
| 09:15.41 | Chipzz | but maybe it does because they only want to allow windows clients to connect |
| 09:16.00 | Ennea | that would be a dick move, but i suppose it would be one way to achieve it, mostly |
| 09:16.01 | Chipzz | which leaves the question about OSX which is also a supported platform |
| 09:16.06 | Ennea | good call |
| 09:16.39 | Ennea | hm, supposedly mac os has a default ttl value of 64 |
| 09:18.00 | Chipzz | you should also note that the TTL decreases on every hop, so by the time it reaches Blizzard servers it won't be 255 anymore |
| 09:18.04 | Ennea | in any case, in conclusion: if they are filtering packets by ttl to counter the ddos, which could make sense because most (or even all) of those requests would be coming from linux machines, it would also explain why linux users can't log in anymore |
| 09:18.17 | Ennea | yea, which is why i said they'd have to check for values greater than 128 |
| 09:18.24 | Ennea | i guess they could go for 200 or something like that |
| 09:18.43 | Ennea | i doubt there are many connections with more than 30 or so hops, maybe you could go higher |
| 09:19.12 | Ennea | anyway, Chipzz, sorry for being slightly pushy/offensive, just trying to make a point it's not an unrealistic suggestion |
| 09:19.31 | Ennea | i didn't actually check if there was anybody on the forums that tried changing the default ttl with any success, though :) |
| 09:19.43 | Chipzz | maybe, but would be a gross violation on their part if they did so |
| 09:19.49 | Ennea | for sure |
| 09:19.54 | Chipzz | (maybe for, as you say, "good" reasons) |
| 09:20.48 | Ennea | ah, there are people in the thread i linked saying changing the default ttl works |
| 09:20.53 | Ennea | so i guess they actually did that... |
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| 10:06.23 | *** topic/#wowuidev is WoW Classic Addon Cat: https://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat160.html || 8.2.0 ToC: 80200 || 1.13 ToC: 11302 || http://pastebin.com || Discord: https://discord.gg/sVQCHr5 || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl |
| 10:30.36 | cirdan | my linux ttl is 54 |
| 10:30.54 | cirdan | well for ping anyway |
| 10:32.18 | cirdan | only very very old unix systems used high ttl |
| 10:32.19 | cirdan | https://subinsb.com/default-device-ttl-values/ |
| 10:32.32 | Ennea | isn't that the ttl of the icmp packet you're receiving? |
| 10:32.43 | Ennea | so there's default ttl - 54 hops between your ping target and you |
| 10:32.49 | cirdan | no |
| 10:33.02 | Ennea | cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_default_ttl -> 64 |
| 10:33.07 | Ennea | on my work pc here, running debian 9 |
| 10:33.32 | nevcairiel | the ttl is the number of hops remaining in its lifetime, so if its set ot 64 and you get 54, then it did 10 hops on its way |
| 10:33.35 | Ennea | pinging my website it's giving me a ttl of 52 |
| 10:33.44 | cirdan | oh maybe yeah |
| 10:34.05 | cirdan | but icmp tcp and udb can all have differnt ttl |
| 10:34.34 | Ennea | well, with a default of 64, both 54 and 52 seem reasonable after all the hops |
| 10:34.41 | Ennea | that was what i was thinking |
| 10:35.21 | nevcairiel | 10 to 15 hops is somewhat normal, over 15 gets on the high side, maybe bad ISP with bad routing (or a large company network it has to go through first :P) |
| 10:35.26 | Ennea | pinging a different domain nets a different ttl |
| 10:35.29 | Ennea | so it makes sense |
| 10:36.01 | nevcairiel | you can of course use pathping or traceroute to see the actual hops it takes |
| 10:43.27 | cirdan | yeah i just woke up so my witts are sleeep |
| 10:43.27 | cirdan | y |
| 10:44.14 | cirdan | ping us.blizzard.com shows 20 hops |
| 10:44.33 | cirdan | from 65 to ttl=45 |
| 10:44.39 | cirdan | 64 whatever |
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| 10:46.07 | nevcairiel | 20? Man. I only get 15 and I have to cross over the pond, the eu blizzard site gets me 10 |
| 10:46.50 | nevcairiel | dont have a game server IP handy to do a relevant test tho :d |
| 10:47.19 | Ennea | similar here. 16 to us, 10 for eu |
| 10:48.06 | nevcairiel | there logged in to find my game server IP |
| 10:49.02 | nevcairiel | aw that one filters ICMP somewhere =p |
| 10:50.30 | nevcairiel | looks like 9 hops tho |
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| 11:13.11 | cirdan | nevcairiel: ping us.blizzard.com ? |
| 11:13.27 | cirdan | 137.221.106.102 |
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| 11:43.52 | VIad | nevcairiel: what do you mean IM and IRC are not compatible? |
| 11:45.06 | Ennea | when did he say that? ^^ |
| 11:45.48 | VIad | I was looking into alternatives to Pidgin but nothing newer that drew my attention. I asked him on Discord, took a picture of it to just show it looks like a regular IM window on my end, it's pretty neat for casual usage. |
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| 11:47.51 | Ennea | if you like using your irc client anyway, take a look at bitlbee |
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| 19:56.31 | *** topic/#wowuidev is WoW Classic Addon Cat: https://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat160.html || 8.2.0 ToC: 80200 || 1.13 ToC: 11302 || http://pastebin.com || Discord: https://discord.gg/sVQCHr5 || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 21:32.05 | phyber | How do you get an addon out of the "Discontinued" category on WoWI? Updating it doesn't seem to do it. |
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| 23:21.25 | TukuiDevs | <Azilroka> probably need to message a mod |
| 23:22.38 | TukuiDevs | <Azilroka> or Cairenn |
| 23:33.35 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.24 | foxlit | (it's </c0de>, which they manage to sanitize to... an empty string.) |
| 23:34.39 | Mr_Rabies | my ears |
| 23:35.37 | foxlit | I think amazon encodes song previews to be extra shitty. |
| 23:36.43 | Mr_Rabies | here have another code-related song (sort of?) that soothes my ears instead https://youtu.be/ESx_hy1n7HA |
| 23:37.09 | foxlit | youtube substituted a 3:26 minute ad with another song. |
| 23:38.54 | Mr_Rabies | lol |