| 00:09.12 | Chipzz | nebula: you play hunter on Classic right? I'm having trouble with my pet, it's a bear but never uses Growl. Can learn rank 3 at pet trainer at a later level but rank 1 and 2 aren't there. It's not on my pets castbar, and I can't open my pets SpellBook to drag it on there. Is there a minimum level for Growl or Pet SpellBook? |
| 00:09.41 | Chipzz | this is frustrating the hell out of me, constantly dying because pet is too fucking daft too Taunt :( |
| 00:10.32 | foxlit | note that you learning stuff at a trainer doesn't teach the stuff to the pet. |
| 00:11.02 | foxlit | (use the pet training skill) |
| 00:11.37 | Chipzz | aren't bears supposed to have Growl when you tame them? |
| 00:12.10 | foxlit | dunno. |
| 00:12.12 | Chipzz | hunter is level 13, pet lvl 12, no "Pet Training" skill in my spellbook |
| 00:13.13 | nebula | Chipzz: there's a npc that does pet skills |
| 00:13.39 | Chipzz | "pet trainer"? |
| 00:13.51 | Chipzz | that guy only has passive skills and growl rank 3 |
| 00:14.06 | foxlit | it's "Beast Training", general tab. |
| 00:15.08 | Chipzz | that was it! |
| 00:15.13 | Chipzz | Growl was in there |
| 00:16.12 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:16.12 | *** topic/#wowuidev is WoW Classic Addon Cat: https://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/cat160.html || 8.2.0 ToC: 80200 || 1.13 ToC: 11302 || http://pastebin.com || Discord: https://discord.gg/sVQCHr5 || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl |
| 00:18.06 | foxlit | to be entirely fair, that skill was taught by a quest, so you were probably expected to realize that you have it and read the skill description to figure out what it does |
| 00:48.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@072-189-128-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 00:52.45 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl (jaxdahl@unaffiliated/jaxdahl) |
| 01:07.05 | Chipzz | to be fair, this spell should be under the beast mastery tab, not the general one |
| 01:29.11 | *** join/#wowuidev IrcBridge_ (~IrcBridge@host-95-142-47-227.hosted-by-vdsina.ru) |
| 02:17.48 | znf | weird |
| 02:17.52 | znf | EU servers are still down |
| 02:56.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Nimhfree_ (~scott@rich-dsl1-136.greenmountainaccess.net) |
| 04:07.58 | *** join/#wowuidev IrcBridge_ (~IrcBridge@host-95-142-47-227.hosted-by-vdsina.ru) |
| 04:17.09 | *** join/#wowuidev IrcBridge_ (~IrcBridge@host-95-142-47-227.hosted-by-vdsina.ru) |
| 04:43.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@2a00:801:300:4ec9:a463:73b1:1dae:68a8) |
| 04:43.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 04:48.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@75-36-111-192.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:48.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 04:49.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@2a00:801:300:4ec9:a463:73b1:1dae:68a8) |
| 04:53.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@75-36-111-192.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:53.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 04:54.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe_ (~Gethe@2605:a601:aa00:e700:8485:a316:ab2d:366a) |
| 04:56.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 05:24.21 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 05:24.21 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 05:41.25 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@2601:87:4101:92f0:bdf0:62ba:bd23:87fc) |
| 06:54.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (Sintacks@75-109-20-148.chlncmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 06:59.04 | *** join/#wowuidev brykrys (~brykrys@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Dev/Brykrys) |
| 07:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 07:32.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 09:24.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@072-189-128-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 10:53.56 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@unaffiliated/p3lim) |
| 11:08.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Breen (~Breen@80.175.117.105) |
| 11:14.55 | *** join/#wowuidev mitch0 (~mitch@188-143-125-240.pool.digikabel.hu) |
| 11:27.50 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 11:27.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 11:52.13 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 11:52.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 12:01.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 12:01.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 12:16.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Nimhfree_ (~scott@rich-dsl1-136.greenmountainaccess.net) |
| 13:08.02 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (~harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 13:31.31 | *** join/#wowuidev IrcBridge_ (~IrcBridge@host-95-142-47-227.hosted-by-vdsina.ru) |
| 13:32.04 | *** join/#wowuidev IrcBridge_ (~IrcBridge@host-95-142-47-227.hosted-by-vdsina.ru) |
| 13:35.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Ackis (~Ackis@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 13:40.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Ackis (~Ackis@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Troll/Ackis) |
| 13:51.09 | *** join/#wowuidev MooreaTv (~MooreaTV@unaffiliated/mooreatv) |
| 13:55.22 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 13:55.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 14:00.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@072-189-128-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 15:14.45 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 15:14.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 15:17.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@c83-255-17-124.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:44.30 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 15:44.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@c83-255-17-124.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:45.09 | *** join/#wowuidev TSquare (~tomthomps@198.74.35.2) |
| 15:45.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o TSquare] by ChanServ |
| 15:55.58 | *** join/#wowuidev hizuro (~hizuro@WoWUIDev/hizuro) |
| 16:03.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 16:05.07 | znf | I don't understand this buff - https://i.imgur.com/ZbDfg9b.png |
| 16:05.26 | znf | Holding [...] increases this effect |
| 16:05.48 | Ennea | what's confusing you? |
| 16:05.50 | kd3 | aren't there capturable points of interest in naztajar? |
| 16:06.07 | kd3 | if your faction captures them, you hold the territory they control |
| 16:06.16 | kd3 | it's not an item in your bags |
| 16:06.27 | znf | But it's exactly the opposite. When the opposite faction has the towers (5) you get 5 stacks |
| 16:06.28 | znf | :) |
| 16:06.37 | Ennea | ah.. |
| 16:06.41 | Ennea | well :D |
| 16:06.45 | znf | That's why I said I don't understand it |
| 16:06.58 | Ennea | either the reverseness (is that even a word?) is a bug |
| 16:07.01 | Ennea | or the wording is poor |
| 16:13.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~semlar@072-189-128-149.res.spectrum.com) |
| 16:27.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@2a00:801:300:4ec9:8668:e1dd:45ed:e0e8) |
| 16:32.09 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.99.191.137) |
| 16:32.09 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 16:35.27 | *** join/#wowuidev m^rk (~mrk@75-136-211-136.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com) |
| 16:38.29 | m^rk | is there a way specify which wow version an addon is for, to the autopackager when using curseforge hosted SVN? |
| 16:41.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:42.04 | m^rk | like does it inspect the toc # to figure it out? |
| 16:52.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:56.52 | *** join/#wowuidev TheDanW (~TheDanW@198.74.35.3) |
| 16:56.52 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o TheDanW] by ChanServ |
| 17:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev TheDanW (~TheDanW@198.74.35.3) |
| 17:10.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o TheDanW] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@2a00:801:300:4ec9:81c5:3dd9:615:3001) |
| 17:41.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:02.23 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@75-36-111-192.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:02.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 18:12.50 | *** join/#wowuidev TSquare (~tomthomps@198.74.35.2) |
| 18:12.50 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o TSquare] by ChanServ |
| 20:17.23 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Meorawr (~Meorawr@cpc96138-rdng26-2-0-cust327.15-3.cable.virginm.net) |
| 20:28.17 | *** join/#wowuidev retrojeff (~Jeffery@2604:3d08:9b7d:d700:4162:9f0:a91:fdc9) |
| 20:29.27 | retrojeff | any addons right now that can export charactor data? like items im wearing gold I have spells I have learned and my stats etc |
| 20:29.52 | retrojeff | to display on my personal blog/website |
| 20:31.34 | Seerah | I haven't seen any. How would you want it exported? |
| 20:32.20 | retrojeff | dont really care at this point |
| 20:32.22 | retrojeff | tanks dont want to tank (takes 6 hours to get a tank) and when you finally get one they pull the whole dungeon die and blame the healer and remove me from the group also took down a gold selling website and the guild master got pissed about that sorry blizzard you wont be getting anymore money from me EVER |
| 20:33.03 | Seerah | ? |
| 20:33.04 | Mr_Rabies | wat |
| 20:33.17 | retrojeff | this game is toxic to the extreme |
| 20:34.15 | Seerah | then why do you want the addon? |
| 20:34.54 | retrojeff | to be able to save my data for using in other places |
| 20:35.06 | retrojeff | I canceled my sub to wow |
| 20:35.15 | Seerah | what other places? |
| 20:35.23 | Mr_Rabies | because pservers are certainly less toxic than the official servers |
| 20:35.33 | retrojeff | is that really important? |
| 20:35.41 | Seerah | it just makes no sense |
| 20:35.48 | retrojeff | I actually own a 1.12 server myself (hosted overseas ofc) |
| 20:35.54 | Seerah | ofc |
| 20:36.03 | Seerah | would you like to get kicked from another group chat? |
| 20:36.12 | Mr_Rabies | certainly it's not about being a cheap bastard trying to explain it away as anything else |
| 20:36.41 | Mr_Rabies | because somehow it's blizzard's fault everyone wants to dps in classic, also no clue what the gold seller website thing means |
| 20:36.42 | retrojeff | I think classic wow and the idea of it is a joke |
| 20:37.19 | retrojeff | honestly blizzard was dead to me the second they merged with activision |
| 20:37.30 | Seerah | then why are you here? |
| 20:37.34 | retrojeff | I grew up playing starcraft diablo 1 and 2 |
| 20:37.40 | retrojeff | warcraft 1 2 and 3 |
| 20:37.47 | Seerah | why are you HERE |
| 20:37.56 | Mr_Rabies | if anything they were given free reign after merging with activision vs. what they were allowed to do under vivendi |
| 20:38.01 | retrojeff | because I want the data that I just worked hard on |
| 20:38.06 | retrojeff | to use it elsewhere |
| 20:38.15 | Seerah | write it down? |
| 20:38.22 | MiRai | PrintScreen |
| 20:38.28 | Seerah | and keep your illegal private server out of this chat |
| 20:38.28 | retrojeff | I could do that yes |
| 20:39.04 | retrojeff | honestly a small private server with only 15 players on it is not gonna bother blizzard |
| 20:39.20 | Seerah | it does, and it it bothers us |
| 20:39.27 | *** kick/#wowuidev [retrojeff!~umsin@75-36-111-192.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] by Seerah (retrojeff) |
| 20:39.45 | Mr_Rabies | 15 players is a pretty sad wow experience tbh :( |
| 20:39.50 | TSquare | ahh man! ... It was just getting good :D |
| 20:39.59 | Seerah | :D |
| 20:40.05 | Mr_Rabies | that's less than like a regular multiplayer server for an fps |
| 20:40.27 | Seerah | well, I didn't ban him, so maybe he'll come back and you can get your popcorn ;) Maybe chip in :p |
| 20:40.46 | Mr_Rabies | my realm with hundreds of people on at peak time is pretty depressing, 15 must be a mess, but then again |
| 20:41.10 | TSquare | no, you did fine |
| 20:41.39 | Seerah | ha, now he PM'ed me and said we're "toxic" XD |
| 20:43.10 | nevcairiel | to be honest people getting bitter after a few bad experiences is what makes up the toxic base, because they take everythign personal and then hate everyone |
| 20:43.32 | nevcairiel | so, basically, him |
| 20:43.49 | Seerah | yep |
| 20:44.03 | Mr_Rabies | i think that word has lost all meaning tbh |
| 20:45.13 | Mr_Rabies | on a related note that's why i don't play any games other than wow that force you to play on the company's servers :v |
| 20:46.36 | Mr_Rabies | wow's such a carefully curated experience that i can accept it on those terms, but the era of the server browser's ubiquity was my jam |
| 20:47.10 | Mr_Rabies | if a place was too much of a hugbox or too toxic you could just go to another server, and most servers were pretty good at setting their house rules on the motd or something equivalent |
| 20:47.32 | Mr_Rabies | forcing everyone to co-mingle ain't gonna work in like an fps |
| 20:56.55 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+b retrojeff!*@*] by Seerah |
| 20:57.10 | Seerah | wow, he's a douche |
| 20:57.42 | Mr_Rabies | but if everyone in the world but 15 people are 'toxic' lol guess who probably actually is |
| 20:58.06 | Seerah | oh, I actually tried to be nice and explain that to him. |
| 20:59.10 | Seerah | I don't know why. He then ignored my answer when he asked if I worked for Blizzard and kept bitching at me, called me "Sir" sarcastically twice after I corrected him, etc, etc, etc. |
| 20:59.45 | Seerah | and still didn't get it when I pointed him to a mirror |
| 20:59.48 | Seerah | so... :) |
| 21:00.08 | Mr_Rabies | wonder how long it takes to find a tank on a 15 person server |
| 21:00.22 | Seerah | ROFL - I almost spit out my water :p |
| 21:02.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:02.28 | Seerah | He said he'd just sit on GM Island as a lvl 255 mage with all his GM gear. Bet that's tons of fun. |
| 21:02.32 | Mr_Rabies | still trying to figure out what he meant by "also took down a gold selling website and the guild master got pissed" |
| 21:02.44 | Mr_Rabies | what on earth does that even mean |
| 21:02.50 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 21:03.44 | Seerah | Not sure. But he was bitching about being chat banned for a bit because he reported a pedophile in a group he was in. I told him he probably did something to deserve it. |
| 21:03.54 | Seerah | Honestly, he reminds me of one of those "nice guys" |
| 21:03.57 | Mr_Rabies | truly the diogenes of our time |
| 21:14.47 | Ennea | the hell was with that guy |
| 21:15.15 | Ennea | light's hope even shut down their server because they realized that whatever they were doing, blizz was gonna do it better anyway |
| 21:15.27 | Ennea | how would anybody prefer a private server over official ones |
| 21:16.24 | Mr_Rabies | well $0 is cheaper than $15 a month |
| 21:16.44 | Mr_Rabies | i think at this point that's all that is left |
| 21:16.54 | Ennea | i feel like most people that are interested in classic don't care about the money |
| 21:17.06 | Ennea | back in the day, a few friends played on pservers simply because they couldn't afford a sub |
| 21:17.11 | Ennea | but nowadays.. |
| 21:17.39 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i guess there's also tbc/wrath servers etc but ehhh |
| 21:18.11 | Mr_Rabies | i do respect people that put in the time to make some kind of archival version of the game and make it better from that perspective, but that's about it |
| 21:18.13 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@2601:87:4101:92f0:fc3a:126f:e782:e04a) |
| 21:18.35 | Ennea | i have lost all respect for private servers at some point |
| 21:18.48 | Ennea | because they all turned into some corrupted piece of trash sooner or later |
| 21:18.53 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 21:18.53 | Ennea | with a few exceptions i guess |
| 21:19.06 | Ennea | also fish flying around sylvanas |
| 21:19.08 | Ennea | but that was okay |
| 21:19.44 | Mr_Rabies | i do appreciate trying to preserve games that are dead in general |
| 21:19.54 | Ennea | oh, same |
| 21:19.59 | Mr_Rabies | but you'll never =really- be able to bring back wow from any previous era |
| 21:20.01 | Ennea | as long as it's for the sake of preservation itself |
| 21:20.07 | Ennea | yea, that's true |
| 21:20.11 | Ennea | mmorpgs are a fleeting experience |
| 21:20.15 | Ennea | you can't recreate them entirely |
| 21:20.15 | Mr_Rabies | even if you had ALL of the information |
| 21:20.21 | Ennea | but so far, i'm very happy with classic :) |
| 21:20.24 | Ennea | so glad blizz made that happen |
| 21:20.29 | Ennea | i'm enjoying it a ton |
| 21:20.49 | Mr_Rabies | even blizzard with access to everything hasn't fully recreated 2004-2006 wow |
| 21:21.13 | Ennea | they could've. but the decision not to use the old client makes perfect sense |
| 21:21.26 | Ennea | and, well, the skeleton thing... for some weird reason |
| 21:21.37 | Mr_Rabies | skeleton thing? |
| 21:21.51 | Ennea | classic only spawns at most one skeleton per player, apparently |
| 21:21.55 | Mr_Rabies | ahh right |
| 21:22.08 | Ennea | the official reason was messages being created with skeletons |
| 21:22.19 | Ennea | the obvious solution would be random rotation/position changes upon placement |
| 21:22.30 | Ennea | but i guess not? :/ |
| 21:22.49 | Ennea | it's not the end of the world, but i kinda miss seeing a shit ton of skeletons in uc's elevators |
| 21:22.52 | Ennea | now it's just a few |
| 21:24.28 | Mr_Rabies | i'm not personally super interested because druid was awful in vanilla, and that was (and still is) my main |
| 21:24.54 | Mr_Rabies | i still play my character from vanilla as my only real character, i have a ton of alts between 110 and 120 but i never really raid on my alts or anything |
| 21:25.24 | Ennea | those level numbers make me shudder ;p |
| 21:25.28 | Mr_Rabies | i think the class design in vanilla is a mess but i'm glad they didn't fix it |
| 21:25.31 | Ennea | 60 is the only real maximum level! |
| 21:25.37 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 21:25.43 | Mr_Rabies | if rumors come true |
| 21:25.48 | Mr_Rabies | that might be the case again sooner than later :v |
| 21:26.01 | Ennea | i'm curious to see what happens after the content phases |
| 21:26.09 | Ennea | from the official communication so far, they're open for.. anything |
| 21:26.11 | Ennea | supposedly |
| 21:26.18 | Ennea | which is tbc, on the one hand |
| 21:26.20 | Ennea | or not. on the other |
| 21:26.28 | Mr_Rabies | people have been floating classic+ which would be neat, but i don't really think modern blizzard could pull it off well |
| 21:26.38 | Ennea | personally, i really, really, really.. would love a continuation of what classic is |
| 21:26.40 | Ennea | but not tbc |
| 21:26.42 | Ennea | :) |
| 21:26.48 | Ennea | i dunno |
| 21:26.54 | Mr_Rabies | turn the zones that were added in cataclysm into versions of those zones before the cataclysm, have new raids that were scrapped, etc |
| 21:26.56 | Ennea | it worked for oldschool runescape, right? |
| 21:27.02 | Ennea | i believe it would certainly work for WoW |
| 21:27.06 | Ennea | and i think blizz could still do it |
| 21:27.30 | Mr_Rabies | i don't have a lot of faith in them lately and i used to be the biggest blizzard fanboy but i'm not going to get too much into that |
| 21:27.48 | Ennea | yea, i'm with you on that... |
| 21:27.50 | Ennea | but i wanna believe |
| 21:28.04 | Ennea | and they've done a good job with classic. except for a few minor things i guess |
| 21:28.05 | Ennea | but overall |
| 21:28.07 | Ennea | i'm content |
| 21:28.53 | Chipzz | Mr_Rabies: Classic+ would be problematic lore-wise |
| 21:29.21 | Chipzz | I'm actually strongly opposed to the idea |
| 21:29.25 | Ennea | didn't they destroy their lore already? |
| 21:29.31 | Ennea | we have chromie, let's just make an alternate timeline |
| 21:29.37 | Gnarfoz | different game, different lore, done |
| 21:29.41 | Ennea | or that |
| 21:30.31 | Chipzz | THB I'ld much rather they do TBC servers than Classic+ |
| 21:30.44 | Ennea | that's where the community will be split i guess ^^ |
| 21:30.50 | Ennea | i just wonder what the ratio's gonna look like |
| 21:31.13 | Chipzz | and if they do Classic+, IMO it *MUST* include fixes the #nochanges crowd wants |
| 21:31.19 | Chipzz | like lefting the debuff limit |
| 21:31.31 | Chipzz | s/wants/doesn't want/ |
| 21:31.48 | Ennea | oh, absolutely |
| 21:31.56 | Ennea | if it were up to me we could have those changes now |
| 21:32.01 | Ennea | debuff limit can go |
| 21:32.06 | Ennea | give me back UnitCastingInfo |
| 21:32.08 | Chipzz | toxic #nochanges crow |
| 21:32.09 | Ennea | and easy access to threat |
| 21:32.31 | Ennea | classic already has quite a few changes compared to vanilla |
| 21:32.35 | Chipzz | give me "Have Mats" and search box in crafting window :p |
| 21:32.38 | Ennea | but not the kinda stuff that elitist crowd cares about |
| 21:32.42 | Ennea | yea! |
| 21:32.47 | Ennea | also, make AH search not abysmal |
| 21:33.10 | Ennea | (i kinda improved that with an addon. which wouldn't have been possible with the api from back then :D) |
| 21:33.25 | Meorawr | I think the main issue you'd have with Classic+ is that the main progression path is tier-based and fully vertical; the PvP crowd won't much appreciate changes to whatever meta forms as a result of power creep in new content. |
| 21:33.45 | Ennea | yea, that's a tough one |
| 21:33.50 | Meorawr | Same issue with OSRS PvP updates, they tend to be tighter in their poll chances. |
| 21:34.06 | Ennea | i gotta be honest, i know nothing about runescape |
| 21:34.14 | Ennea | all i know is OSRS seems to work. i dunno how well though |
| 21:34.34 | Ennea | back in the day i decided not to try runescape because it looked ugly as sin... |
| 21:34.44 | Ennea | not sure if good or bad idea |
| 21:35.06 | Meorawr | OSRS updates that add new content generally pass, but anything that fundamentally changes gameplay systems is usually a hard pass, even if said systems are due to technical limitations or weren't really intended to begin with |
| 21:35.24 | Meorawr | Prayer flicking kinda comes to mind |
| 21:35.53 | Ennea | hm |
| 21:35.58 | Meorawr | Hmm, instead of "hard pass" I should probably say "flat no" 'given I used pass in the opposite context beforehand |
| 21:36.05 | Ennea | well, things can be balanced a little without mechanical changes |
| 21:36.14 | Ennea | :D |
| 21:36.39 | Ennea | as for power creep |
| 21:36.48 | Ennea | hmm |
| 21:37.16 | Ennea | could try making new content that doesn't involve a higher max level or new more powerful gear |
| 21:37.25 | Ennea | i mean, with naxx gear, we're already kinda fucked anyway... but |
| 21:37.26 | Ennea | uhh |
| 21:37.30 | Ennea | let's see where we can go from there! |
| 21:37.42 | Chipzz | Meorawr: how would lifting the debuff limit be problematic for example? The leveling grind would still be the same, 5 man dungeons would still be the same, the only difference is specs that were not raid-viable in the past now are. How is being able to play with your friend who choose the wrong class a bad thing? |
| 21:38.22 | Ennea | i don't think anybody would have an issue with removing the debuff limit |
| 21:38.27 | Chipzz | the only issue I see might be more gear competition |
| 21:38.44 | Chipzz | Ennea: the toxic #nochanges crowd does |
| 21:38.52 | Ennea | they can fuck off |
| 21:39.08 | Meorawr | I think that's probably one of the changes that'd easily be put through without any real backlash, as long as it isn't put forward as the *first* post-Naxx idea. |
| 21:39.20 | Ennea | elitist crowds like them typically don't provide any valuable input |
| 21:39.31 | Ennea | do they think classic will be sustainable like it is for multiple years or what? |
| 21:39.40 | Chipzz | it's a change I want in current Classic, not Classic+ |
| 21:39.53 | Ennea | let me give you a change that nobody has been bothered by so far |
| 21:39.59 | Ennea | (and honestly, why would anybody) |
| 21:40.07 | Ennea | when flying anywhere in classic, your chat channels change while flying |
| 21:40.13 | Ennea | back in vanilla, they only changed once you've landed |
| 21:40.38 | Ennea | where's the #nochanges crowd on that? :p |
| 21:40.55 | Chipzz | but, but, ... the Barrens chat! |
| 21:41.18 | Ennea | yea, that's why i noticed it, lol |
| 21:41.24 | Ennea | i was chatting away in barrens, as you do |
| 21:41.25 | Ennea | flying |
| 21:41.30 | Ennea | aaaand suddenly i'm out |
| 21:41.44 | Chipzz | #noflying :p |
| 21:41.51 | Ennea | :D |
| 21:42.01 | Chipzz | oh wait, different toxic crowd :p |
| 21:42.11 | Ennea | i'm against flying mounts as well ^^ |
| 21:42.51 | Chipzz | sure, don't use them, but let me enjoy the game I want to? |
| 21:43.06 | Chipzz | what exactly is your argument against that? |
| 21:43.14 | Ennea | i'd be an idiot if i didn't use them when they're there |
| 21:43.37 | Ennea | i just really like exploration in games. it's one of the things i will always enjoy, especially in games with large worlds |
| 21:43.53 | Ennea | but flying mounts just kinda destroy my excitement for it |
| 21:44.01 | Ennea | why bother if you can just easy get anywhere anyway? |
| 21:44.04 | Chipzz | then by all means, do explore with your ground mount |
| 21:44.05 | Ennea | *easily |
| 21:44.12 | Meorawr | Personally I think we'd see TBC servers instead of Classic+, but that might just be me *wanting* them more than anything. I'd hope a solution could be found whereby Classic servers could stick around without becoming ghost towns if happened, but it's tricky. |
| 21:44.17 | Chipzz | I'll just skip that part and rush through questing |
| 21:44.19 | Ennea | it's also how the world is designed around it |
| 21:44.25 | Ennea | see azeroth before and after cataclysm |
| 21:45.13 | Ennea | to me it's not only about finding beautiful places, but also things the developers didn't intend me to find |
| 21:45.16 | Chipzz | Ennea: again, you wanna explore and I hate questing and want to get it over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Why do you want to deprive me of that? |
| 21:45.19 | Ennea | that copy and pasted silithus cave |
| 21:45.29 | Ennea | spots i can typically see on flying paths but can't normally get to |
| 21:45.45 | Chipzz | the problem is you see it as a zero-sum game which it is not! |
| 21:45.50 | Ennea | you hate what makes WoW amazing to me |
| 21:46.02 | Ennea | you can't combine into one game something that's good for both of us |
| 21:46.07 | Chipzz | yes you can |
| 21:46.10 | Ennea | which is cool, not everybody has to like everything |
| 21:46.15 | Chipzz | ut in flying and you don't use it |
| 21:46.32 | Ennea | i told you, if the world's designed around it, it's not as simple as just not using a flying mount |
| 21:46.46 | Chipzz | feel free to use your ground-mount if you want to while I fly around, there is NO problem |
| 21:47.09 | Ennea | if there's no difference, then why add flying mounts at all? |
| 21:47.09 | Chipzz | you say the world is designed around grount mounts and exploring that way... |
| 21:47.31 | Chipzz | because it's a convenience to me, which you are entirely free to pass on if you feel it ruins your game |
| 21:47.53 | nevcairiel | thats just not how things work. If the difference in efficiency would be small that might work, but if the difference is huge, which it is, then people will always feel compelled to use it, even if they might enjoy the other way more |
| 21:48.02 | Ennea | ^ |
| 21:48.37 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: but that is *their* problem and *their* choice, no reason to ruin the game for me |
| 21:48.45 | Ennea | ^^ |
| 21:48.54 | Ennea | you don't like traveling in classic, i guess? ;) |
| 21:49.03 | Chipzz | if they're masochistic enough to handicap themselves, why would I care? |
| 21:49.11 | nevcairiel | no its not their choice, because when they take far longer to do anything in the game they'll be excluded from group play |
| 21:49.21 | nevcairiel | so its a measurable negative |
| 21:49.27 | Chipzz | no I don't, and the flight paths are expensive (at low level) |
| 21:49.41 | Chipzz | you're mistaken |
| 21:49.44 | Chipzz | it's still their choice |
| 21:49.59 | Ennea | come on, when has flight path prices ever been an issue? |
| 21:50.03 | Chipzz | not an easy choice, or a choice they would like much, but it is still their choice |
| 21:50.10 | Ennea | it's a silver from orgrimmar to crossroads |
| 21:50.13 | Ennea | i have like 5 gold |
| 21:50.17 | nevcairiel | its also your choice to look for a different game :P |
| 21:50.24 | Chipzz | when you're a level 5 and have 10 silver, 1 silver is a lot |
| 21:50.38 | Ennea | when you're level 5, you're not gonna fly anywhere |
| 21:50.53 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: you could say the same of the #noflying crowd... just find a different game then? |
| 21:50.55 | nevcairiel | the point is that you can't realistically combine the two approaches into one game without serious problems, and that is absolutely true |
| 21:51.11 | Ennea | when everybody is forced into the same travel options (that do take a while), you end up finding more players along the way you can play with |
| 21:51.18 | Chipzz | I think you can |
| 21:51.24 | Ennea | if you give everybody the option for a much more efficient, much more boring way of travel |
| 21:51.30 | Ennea | 99.9% of players is absolutely gonna take it |
| 21:51.39 | Ennea | making not taking it not even a valid option for me anymore |
| 21:51.40 | Chipzz | "finding more players along the way" that boat has looooooong sailed |
| 21:51.43 | Ennea | because why would i, at that point |
| 21:51.49 | Ennea | has it? |
| 21:51.54 | Chipzz | because YOU want to explore |
| 21:51.57 | Ennea | i found a new friend a few days ago |
| 21:51.59 | Chipzz | which is not my problem |
| 21:52.01 | Ennea | killing kolkar in the barrens |
| 21:52.04 | Ennea | we quested again today |
| 21:52.44 | Chipzz | for me the thing is, I like WoW as a dungeon crawler. But I HATE questing with a passion |
| 21:53.00 | Chipzz | for me dungeon leveling is pure joy :) |
| 21:53.07 | Chipzz | too bad they nerfed that |
| 21:53.11 | Ennea | i guess retail is the better branch for you, then |
| 21:53.33 | Chipzz | dungeon leveling is not viable anymore on retail |
| 21:53.45 | Ennea | you can do dungeons after leveling, i suppose? |
| 21:54.13 | Chipzz | yes, but again, I hate questing with a passion |
| 21:54.19 | Meorawr | Optimal? No. Viable? Sure it is. |
| 21:54.25 | Meorawr | Might take longer but is that really a problem? |
| 21:54.53 | nevcairiel | Sounds like the entire game isnt for you, questing hasn't been this much part of "end game" now then it ever has |
| 21:55.20 | Chipzz | the problem isn't it taking 5 dungeons instead of 1 to gain a level; the problem is, you won't find a lot of ppl willing to grind the same dungeon 5 times after each other |
| 21:55.44 | Ennea | you used to gain one level per dungeon? o.O |
| 21:55.48 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: non-sequitor |
| 21:56.12 | Ennea | not being able to find people who wanna grind dungeons is.. understandable |
| 21:56.21 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: a large part of the game still is for me, like WQs and Dungeons and Raids |
| 21:56.30 | nevcairiel | you know what the Q in WQ stands for? |
| 21:56.34 | Ennea | :D |
| 21:56.39 | Chipzz | I just have to struggle through the crappy questing to unlock FMW |
| 21:56.39 | Ennea | anyway, i need some sleep. later~ |
| 21:57.27 | nevcairiel | Majority of WQs are ltiereally a repeat of quests you did during leveling, too :d |
| 21:57.30 | Chipzz | nevcairiel: I do, but WQs are different from quests. The problem I have with quests is having to figure out which crap mob drops item X or which objects I have to click etc |
| 21:58.08 | Chipzz | WQs are repititive but once you've done them more than once you know what to do instead of having to alt-tab to wowhead and get attacked while tabbed out |
| 21:58.47 | Chipzz | the knowledge you gain from quests is non-transferable, the one you gain from WQs is |
| 21:59.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@2a02:a44e:ac87:1:ad59:c52b:af7a:99fa) |
| 21:59.36 | foxlit | wait, you alt-tab to wowhead during modern questing? |
| 21:59.37 | Chipzz | and WQs are a scaled down version from quests anyway; if the quest wanted you to kill 10 guys, the WQ will want you to kill only 5 or sth |
| 21:59.58 | Chipzz | if sth is not immediately obvious, yes |
| 22:00.41 | nevcairiel | any quest in recent expansions are usually extremly obvious, which makes questing so boring |
| 22:00.46 | Arrowmaster | is there a dinner signup thread yet that ive missed? |
| 22:00.48 | foxlit | but everything is immediately obvious. I don't recall anything worse than maybe opening the map and maybe actually reading the quest text in the last... years. |
| 22:02.53 | Chipzz | I disagree |
| 22:03.51 | Chipzz | plenty of quests where it says "Collect item X from FooBar mobs" and then there's FooBar Shamans and FooBar Warriors and FooBar Clerics but only the FooBar Warrrios drop the item |
| 22:04.00 | Semlar | i wrote an addon that automatically accepts quests for me because you don't need to read them to know what to do |
| 22:04.10 | nevcairiel | tooltips tell you which mob drops the stuff |
| 22:04.24 | nevcairiel | if you see one, you know if it drops things |
| 22:04.26 | Semlar | nah, their nameplates do because https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/questplates |
| 22:04.27 | nevcairiel | for any active quest |
| 22:04.31 | Arrowmaster | you people are weird, complaining about doing the same dungeons over and over again was the core of vanilla lvl 60 content when you were working on dungeon gear to do the first few raids |
| 22:04.46 | foxlit | (and you can get the client to only show names for quest-relevant mobs) |
| 22:05.02 | nevcairiel | that mode i actually miss a lot in classic |
| 22:05.07 | nevcairiel | no clue when it got added |
| 22:05.23 | nevcairiel | not necessarily for enemies even, but friendly NPCs |
| 22:05.58 | Semlar | having it only show names for quest mobs is useful for things outside of nameplate range |
| 22:06.41 | foxlit | also useful for things inside nameplate range, because who needs nameplates :P |
| 22:09.36 | foxlit | could I once again confess my eternal love for ffxiv, where "get me two boar hearts, stat!" quests means that you have to kill *exactly* two boars? |
| 22:10.10 | nevcairiel | doesnt that usually then just mean you get to collect 20 i nstead of 5, and kill a c omparable number of boars? |
| 22:10.23 | foxlit | no. |
| 22:10.49 | nevcairiel | i mean a quest to kill two random boars seems even more pointless |
| 22:11.05 | Ketho | Semlar: quicklayer is one more more reason for them to nerf addon communication |
| 22:11.39 | Ketho | but just for one phase |
| 22:12.02 | nevcairiel | also people always say "every boar has a heart", what if your fireball burned it, or your sword went through it? fight more careful! |
| 22:12.05 | foxlit | You're killing two random boars because someone needs two boar hearts for $storyReasons, not because the point is to get you to spend 10 minutes fighting trivial mobs hoping for things to drop so that you can get that sweet, sweet quest XP. |
| 22:13.11 | foxlit | (and the ffxiv pc is competent enough to not accidentially stab things in vital organs they need to collect) |
| 22:13.27 | nevcairiel | heat of combat, stuff happens |
| 22:13.43 | Ketho | oh it doesn't even requires solely on addon comms |
| 22:13.54 | foxlit | come on, it's a boar. |
| 22:14.14 | nevcairiel | try fighting a real boar in real life, you wont be having fun! |
| 22:14.15 | nebula | boars are dangerous, man |
| 22:14.42 | foxlit | you can only accidentially fireball it in the wrong place so many times before your credibility as a competent mage is shot. |
| 22:15.25 | nevcairiel | there is an argument to be made that specifically during the time when you do chores like getting boar hearts, you are not supposed to be a competent anything yet, just some guy |
| 22:15.51 | foxlit | I'm sure there's a boar quest in every expansion. |
| 22:15.52 | nevcairiel | obviously that gets all muddled up with expansions, have to reign in the spectacle creep somehow |
| 22:19.36 | foxlit | (this particular complaint brought to you by the Zhevra Hooves quest, where each Zhevra evidently has four hooves, but you might get one every three kills) |
| 22:20.13 | nevcairiel | I saw so many people complain about that, but I actually completed it extremely quickly |
| 22:21.54 | Arrowmaster | just becasue they have 4 hooves before you attack them doesn't mean they have 4 intact hooves when you are done |
| 22:22.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@75-36-111-192.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:22.15 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.21 | Arrowmaster | stop being such a brutal murder hobo |
| 22:22.21 | foxlit | yes, I believe nev made that exact point several minutes ago. |
| 22:22.58 | nebula | the super low drops always bothered me, if you want to increase the time spend on the quest, just up the number required |
| 22:23.01 | foxlit | and I still love ffxiv's quest design for not resorting to creating such pointless busy-work. |
| 22:24.21 | nebula | ffxiv changes it to "find the only four apples that could possibly exist in this area, don't forget to check the most annoying and non-obvious areas first!" |
| 22:24.23 | nevcairiel | you want a similar time engagement either way, so either you get to collect more hoves, or you get more quests for similar things to keep you killing more barrens animals |
| 22:25.58 | nevcairiel | but these things typically have gotten a lot better in more recent expansions as well |
| 22:26.54 | foxlit | nebula: thankfully, those are rare. But yeah, the flip side of that coin is that if the quest says get me 4 mushrooms, you can be sure that there are only 4 mushrooms in the entire world that would do. |
| 22:27.14 | foxlit | But the larger trick is that probably the majority of quest playtime isn't actually spent on combat, but in cutscenes. |
| 22:29.08 | foxlit | So rather than the "auto-accept quest, head to marker, slaughter clones of the same boar by the dozen until you accumulate enough boar hearts" it's "watch a two minute lecture on the utility of boar hearts for summoning Bahamut, head to marker, kill two boars, head back, watch another two minute lecture on why summonign Bahamut isn't such a great idea after all." |
| 22:30.54 | nevcairiel | To be honest I would rather play then watch boring NPCs talk about boar hearts for minutes :D |
| 22:31.28 | foxlit | (there's more combat and story in FATEs if you're so inclined, but never RNG-reliant: it always feels like every kill makes a meaningful contribution to something, rather than just repeating stuff hoping the next rand() likes you better than the last) |
| 22:36.55 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 22:46.11 | foxlit | I also like that flying attunement is per-zone and tied to a mix of quest progression and exploration in the zone, rather than to some external time-gating and rep grinds. |
| 22:47.10 | nebula | i do like that approach, farming hunts for the pre-shb speed increases is kind of annoying, though |
| 22:54.15 | nevcairiel | the delayed flying is a bit awkward, going back to a more immediate model with perhaps a proper quest chain and appropriate quest progress would perhaps be fine, but on ther other hand I would also like to see something to control flying a bit. Some areas of aggressive anti-air weaponry, or whatever variants they can imagine, so that flying isn't always a 1000% better option, or maybe come up with some crazy weather explanation to slow |
| 22:54.15 | nevcairiel | flying down a notch, although i'm s ure that would be a shitstorm :P |
| 22:57.22 | Meorawr | Some anti-air stuff would be nice, but it might be odd from a world-building perspective if some old granny's farm that had some kill quests involving boars was suddenly upgraded with anti-air measures to shoot you down. |
| 22:57.50 | nevcairiel | doesnt h ave to be everywhere |
| 22:57.50 | *** join/#wowuidev Nimhfree_ (~scott@64-199-197-122.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 22:58.14 | nevcairiel | also could just be some flocks of angry birds with aggressive aggro distances |
| 22:58.26 | Meorawr | I know, I just liked the imagery of a boar manning anti-air defenses to shoot players down |
| 22:59.13 | nebula | suddenly seagulls... aaaaand you're dismounted |
| 22:59.41 | Meorawr | Dismounted *and* they remove food from your inventory. |
| 22:59.49 | nebula | bastards |
| 23:00.00 | nevcairiel | In any case, the entire point is that when you hand out flying immediately, there needs to be some balancing for it, because right now once you get flying, you literally swoop onto your target and do nothing else, there is literally zero danger in the air (well, except mechagon, i guess) |
| 23:00.31 | nevcairiel | not that the cannon that shoots at you in mechagon actually does damage when you fly |
| 23:00.44 | foxlit | if by the time you get flying for the zone you're done with the mandatory quest content for the zone, is it so bad that you can swoop on top of whatever you want? |
| 23:01.26 | nevcairiel | Presumably the concept of keeping all zones relevant to a degree at max level isnt going away |
| 23:02.57 | foxlit | I think the world quest objectives expect you to swoop on them anyway, and there's no other max-level content in outdoor zones. |
| 23:08.04 | nevcairiel | Personally I hope a more extensive max-level campaign like suramar returns in the future expansion, but since they tried this in legion for the first time and it didnt make bfa again, i'm not that hopeful |
| 23:09.02 | nevcairiel | Either way I think it would return some sense of danger back to the world if you just can't fly everywhere without being at risk at all. How stupid are all them enemies if they see us flying around and can't even grab a net to throw at us? :D |
| 23:10.14 | nevcairiel | In that sense, I would also like elite areas back :) |
| 23:10.47 | nevcairiel | nazjatar has a few small spots, but they are not very dangerous, just sturdy |
| 23:11.19 | foxlit | I don't really see the point. |
| 23:11.52 | nevcairiel | its fun, of course |
| 23:12.02 | foxlit | but why? |
| 23:12.59 | foxlit | group content exists in dungeons, and you don't have to compete with other people for a finite amount of spawns. |
| 23:13.12 | nevcairiel | shared tagging exists |
| 23:13.36 | foxlit | generally not at the same time as elite areas :) |
