| 00:12.30 | *** join/#wowuidev phyber_ (phyber@unaffiliated/phyber) |
| 00:25.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@c-73-2-180-136.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 00:25.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 01:11.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe (~Gethe@98.156.187.225) |
| 03:04.53 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@c-73-2-180-136.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) |
| 03:21.08 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy (~Mike@2601:87:4101:92f0:6d93:2971:460a:6593) |
| 03:44.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@2a02:a44e:ac87:1:9465:f092:464e:9b67) |
| 03:45.54 | Ketho | where can I find a mirror of the widget hierarchy on http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets_hierarchy.html |
| 04:42.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m77-218-230-130.cust.tele2.se) |
| 05:40.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Shadnix_ (foobar@p4FEFC2A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:01.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 06:29.32 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.147.218.getinternet.no) |
| 06:48.11 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO|PC (sa@2605:a601:a70a:9400:9084:78b:f729:16c3) |
| 07:31.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Simca__ (~Simca@c-73-55-2-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 07:32.49 | AcidWeb | Ketho: https://github.com/Resike/BlizzardInterfaceResources |
| 07:35.03 | Ketho | AcidWeb: thanks, that one is even better |
| 08:51.30 | Andols | FogOfWarFrame? |
| 09:09.37 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 09:19.31 | *** join/#wowuidev LexSfX (LexSfX@216-71-194-85.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 09:47.05 | AcidWeb | Blind guess (pun intended) - island expedition fog? |
| 09:47.39 | nevcairiel | probably |
| 09:51.14 | Alram | yup only used on islands it seems https://wow.tools/dbc/?dbc=uimapfogofwar.db2&bc=e1914bc439a6d9ba9bfeb706f1d3aa38#search=&page=1 |
| 10:28.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kesava (~kesava@unaffiliated/sliker) |
| 11:31.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Breen (~Breen@80.175.117.105) |
| 12:13.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (~Syntax@75-109-21-127.chlncmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 12:58.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe (~Gethe@98.156.187.225) |
| 13:08.02 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe (~Gethe@98.156.187.225) |
| 13:45.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Simca (~Simca@c-73-55-2-30.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Tercioo (~Tercioo@181.214.40.21) |
| 14:34.17 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 14:38.04 | Chipzz | 15:15 < foxlit> when people say "polution of the global namespace", what do they actually mean? >> global variables (or rather, an overabundance of them) are cnsidered an anit-pattern in not in "just about every" but every single programming language I know of |
| 14:39.06 | Chipzz | although in WoW the problem is compounded by every translatable string being a global too :S why oh why not use sth lik _L for that? |
| 14:39.59 | Chipzz | having a smaller number of globals kinda makes sense to me; lets say all toplevel frames, like FriendFrame etc |
| 14:47.01 | Chipzz | why for example does UIPanelScrollBarTemplate need $parentScrollUpButton and $parentScrollDownButton ? perfect example of "pollution", there really is no point in having the global namespace cluttered with these objects especially when you can access them with .ScrollUpButton and .ScrollDownButton |
| 14:47.48 | foxlit | my point is that the global table cannot get "cluttered" |
| 14:47.59 | foxlit | in any way that matters. |
| 14:49.43 | Chipzz | you can write a C++ program with thousands of globals and it wouldn't overflow any compiler or linker constraints either |
| 14:49.51 | Chipzz | doesn't mean it's not shit style though |
| 14:51.00 | Chipzz | in WoW having all these globals doesn't matter to players either |
| 14:51.53 | Chipzz | but it would damn well be nice to be able to /dump _G (or have an interactive viewer) where you could actually see the forrest through the trees |
| 14:52.36 | foxlit | why would you ever want to do that? |
| 14:52.45 | Chipzz | introduction of C_* tables for grouping API functions is nice |
| 14:52.58 | foxlit | (the far more obvious scenario is "hey, what's this button?" /dump GetMouseFocus():GetName() -> "oh shit, it doesn't have one.") |
| 14:53.18 | Chipzz | s/GetName/GetDebugName |
| 14:53.47 | Chipzz | also my emulator will print Frame.child if FrameChild doesn't have a name |
| 14:53.56 | Chipzz | which would actually be nicer than :GetName() |
| 14:53.59 | foxlit | your emulator is not relevant to anyone but you :) |
| 14:54.08 | Chipzz | no it's not :) |
| 14:55.16 | Chipzz | doesn't change the fact that each object needing a name (and corresponding entry in _G) just to be able to print it, when you could print it in another way that would still express how you can access it with lua |
| 14:55.26 | Chipzz | is kind of a silly reason |
| 14:56.24 | Chipzz | why would Frame.child be any worse to get as a result than FrameChild? |
| 14:58.07 | Chipzz | and you didn't address my point of global variables being an anti-pattern :) |
| 15:00.42 | Chipzz | the bottom line with your example is: I have this object under my mouse, I want to figure out how to address it to do things with it |
| 15:01.14 | Chipzz | you don't need it to be a global for you to be able to do anything with it if it's accessible through its parents tabk |
| 15:01.17 | Chipzz | *table |
| 15:01.45 | Chipzz | Frame.child:Hide() works just as well as FrameChild:Hide() |
| 15:03.56 | foxlit | broadly, you cannot reliably figure out which foo.bar.baz expression is correct for a given widget. |
| 15:04.46 | foxlit | names kind of sidestep that by the virtue of being permanent. |
| 15:04.59 | foxlit | (for example, just because parent.selectedTab == this now, it doesn't mean that it will be in the future) |
| 15:05.13 | Chipzz | and I maintain that function foo(frame) frame.child:Hide() end is a lot nicer than _G[frame:GetName().."Child"]:Hide() |
| 15:05.40 | foxlit | by all means declare both when you need that sort of access. |
| 15:06.46 | Chipzz | also, not at my wow machine atm, but I believe /framestack shows objects by .foo too IIRC |
| 15:07.30 | foxlit | it tries to, and sometimes succeeds. |
| 15:07.53 | Chipzz | and it fails when it doesn't have a parentKey |
| 15:08.07 | Chipzz | which is also what other people were complaining about, basically |
| 15:08.32 | Chipzz | s/basically/essentially |
| 15:12.24 | Chipzz | and names being permanent... the result of :GetName() may be, but there's nothing preventing me from doing /run ChildFrame=nil |
| 15:13.32 | foxlit | luckily, nobody does that. |
| 15:14.15 | Chipzz | sure, but from a technical POV it's just as valid as your point above |
| 15:14.36 | Chipzz | how many instances do you know where frame.foo == frame.bar ? |
| 15:15.47 | foxlit | iirc GarrisonUI did that. |
| 15:17.52 | foxlit | (twidget = GetClickFrame("frame") doesn't care if you unset the global) |
| 15:19.52 | Chipzz | but really, your example is an edge case IMO anyway since you only need the name for debugging |
| 15:20.15 | Chipzz | for all practical intents and purposes the table would be a lot more convenient to work on |
| 15:21.25 | Cairenn | Well finally!!!! https://blizzcon.com/en-us/news/22955736/welcome-back-to-blizzcon Tickets on sale May 4 & 8 |
| 15:21.43 | Chipzz | and for debugging you would probably open the .xml and/or .lua to get more information to do whatever the next step you had in your mind anyway |
| 15:21.51 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> BC Tickets Sale, May 4 & 8 || 8.1.x ToC: 80100 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl || Currently mode +r due to spam until a better solution is found. |
| 15:21.59 | Chipzz | s/your // |
| 15:22.17 | Chipzz | thx purl |
| 15:22.26 | Chipzz | gives purl a cookie :) |
| 15:22.48 | foxlit | the common case is just "I want to hide this thing. I don't know what it's called, or where to look for it. Please don't send me to the XML mines" |
| 15:22.51 | Chipzz | (do I need to concern myself with the bot becoming obese? :) ) |
| 15:23.46 | Chipzz | no need to even know the name at all |
| 15:23.50 | Chipzz | ugh |
| 15:23.53 | Chipzz | /run GetMouseFocus():Hide() |
| 15:23.55 | Chipzz | no need to even know the name at all |
| 15:24.06 | Chipzz | *shrug* ? |
| 15:24.24 | Chipzz | I really don't see you making a valid point here tbh |
| 15:24.45 | Chipzz | 17:19 < Chipzz> but really, your example is an edge case IMO anyway since you only need the name for debugging |
| 15:24.59 | foxlit | I thought the next step is obvious -- you want to put your hiding code in your addon to save yourself from hiding 230 different things by mousing over them every time you log on. |
| 15:25.50 | Chipzz | and you would need to go to the .lua/.xml file for that either way to figure out how the FrameChild name is constructed |
| 15:26.07 | Chipzz | unless the widget you're trying to hide is always the same |
| 15:26.39 | Chipzz | you need some kind of reference to the "application logic"; how the UI is set up |
| 15:27.02 | Chipzz | and a simple :GetName() only gives you a tiny bit of information |
| 15:27.28 | Chipzz | it doesn't tell you how that object relates to other objects etc, which will usually be relevant in an addon |
| 15:38.08 | foxlit | I typically don't have a problem finding the rest of the context given a name. |
| 15:40.59 | foxlit | conversely, the "here are the four layers of tables you're in" is usually a sign of annoyance in the future. |
| 15:41.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 15:46.19 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (sa@2605:a601:a70a:9400:9084:78b:f729:16c3) |
| 16:30.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m77-218-230-130.cust.tele2.se) |
| 17:11.04 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 17:22.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 17:32.00 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~kd3@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 18:16.38 | kd3 | huh. a vip ticket this year. kinda surprised it took this long |
| 18:27.30 | MentalPower | I'm seriously considering not going this year |
| 18:28.32 | Cairenn | :( |
| 18:28.57 | Cairenn | kd3: yeah, but the price! jeez! |
| 18:32.21 | kd3 | yah, eesh. but it'll sell out instantly like always, so why not charge closer to what the market will bear? |
| 18:32.29 | kd3 | I dunno if I'm going this year either |
| 18:32.43 | Cairenn | :( |
| 18:35.03 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:05.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Humbedooh (~humbedooh@apache/staff/humbedooh) |
| 19:43.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:00.08 | Maldivia | Very Important Portal pass is $550... damn... |
| 20:50.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@2601:3c2:80:1380:3d99:be6e:fe0a:86) |
| 20:50.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 20:54.26 | znf | wait, they increased the price AGAIN? |
| 20:54.37 | znf | does that mean we get a more expensive virtual ticket, too? |
| 20:57.55 | znf | Also, what mobile game are we expecting this time? |
| 20:57.58 | znf | Starcraft? |
| 20:58.34 | AcidWeb | Paid loot chest for WoW. |
| 20:58.57 | znf | this guy called it |
| 20:59.07 | znf | we need to make a blizzcon bingo |
| 20:59.32 | znf | how risky is it to put "new mobile game" on it, I wonder? |
| 21:09.55 | znf | k, need more: https://i.imgur.com/f6Lw6Lf.png |
| 21:14.34 | dolby | They do have to pay for a lot more security now. I mean last years blizzcon they had so much more security. Was 2018 ticket prices more than 2017? |
| 21:15.15 | kd3 | nah, $199 in 2018, same in 2017 |
| 21:15.15 | znf | no, 2017 was also $199 |
| 21:15.39 | Funkeh` | It was always enough to pay for security that's why I always WTF'd at the lack of it :p |
| 21:15.41 | dolby | 2017 security was nothing like 2018 |
| 21:15.52 | kd3 | last price increase was blizzcon 2014 $199 (up from $175) |
| 21:16.08 | znf | and there was one before from $150 to $175 iirc |
| 21:16.14 | dolby | 2018 security due to the shootings at other game events they probably had tripple what they normally had in the past |
| 21:16.44 | znf | I highly doubt they are not making profit from it :P |
| 21:16.59 | kd3 | eh, they've always said blizzcon is a money-losing endeavour |
| 21:17.06 | kd3 | I don't doubt those statements |
| 21:17.38 | Funkeh` | If concerts can make money whilst having to pay artists way more and have security I think they can manage |
| 21:17.44 | dolby | also expenses always go up... the venue always wants to raise prices I'm sure, etc |
| 21:18.05 | Mr_Rabies | i can't imagine what costs that much, unless they're getting reamed by the venue |
| 21:18.07 | znf | I'm still upset by the virtual ticket increase |
| 21:18.16 | znf | like, fo' real, |
| 21:18.24 | Funkeh` | The virtual ticket increase is robbery |
| 21:18.30 | znf | they could cut down on the silly hosts and let me watch the fucking panels in peace |
| 21:18.33 | Mr_Rabies | other conventions like dragoncon make absolute bank and they're paying actors |
| 21:19.30 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think i've missed a blizzcon panel that i've wanted to watch and i've never paid for the virtual ticket :p |
| 21:20.16 | kd3 | has the virtual ticket price come out yet? I haven't seen anything official |
| 21:20.34 | znf | it's even more annoying considering that this year's (well, last year) virtual ticket's technicalities was absolutely fucking horrible |
| 21:20.52 | znf | I think most people had issues with audio desyncing |
| 21:21.01 | znf | was/were |
| 21:21.18 | znf | even their free panel, the opening one, lagged behind on audio on their stream |
| 21:21.20 | znf | worked fine on youtube |
| 21:22.46 | znf | so basically we got a shittier experience in 2018 and we also paid more |
| 21:22.51 | Mr_Rabies | znf: New Activision game on the Launcher |
| 21:23.01 | znf | Mr_Rabies, oh! |
| 21:32.04 | Mr_Rabies | kinda boring, but Warcraft 3 Reforged Release Date/Available Today or something |
| 21:32.13 | Mr_Rabies | @znf |
| 21:32.30 | znf | Shouldn't this be before blizzcon? |
| 21:32.39 | znf | like, wasn't it supposed to come out in the summer? |
| 21:32.44 | kd3 | that's WoW Classic |
| 21:32.45 | Mr_Rabies | Pre-purchase: Warcraft® III: Reforged releases on or before December 31, 2019. |
| 21:33.03 | znf | Oh |
| 21:33.14 | Mr_Rabies | so my guess would be very shortly after blizzcon or during |
| 21:34.13 | znf | idn't they just release the PTR? |
| 21:34.24 | kd3 | new build earlier today |
| 21:34.44 | kd3 | https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/t/public-test-realm-1-31/5003 |
| 21:35.23 | znf | We are talking about the Reforged, yes? |
| 21:37.45 | Mr_Rabies | DBZ Tribute Elite 2.5.1g no longer causes desyncs |
| 21:37.47 | Mr_Rabies | this is WEIRD |
| 21:37.49 | Mr_Rabies | to see in a patch note |
| 21:38.53 | znf | I'm confused between "classic" and "reforged" |
| 21:39.02 | znf | why are they pushing the changes meant to go in reforged to classic? |
| 21:39.15 | Mr_Rabies | i'm guessing they'll do like starcraft 2 |
| 21:39.27 | Mr_Rabies | feature parity, but reforged has HD assets |
| 21:39.30 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 21:39.33 | Mr_Rabies | starcraft 1 |
| 21:55.31 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~umsin@2601:3c2:80:1380:3d99:be6e:fe0a:86) |
| 22:04.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@2a02:a44e:ac87:1:d180:ac9c:db88:570c) |
| 22:07.33 | Ketho | AcidWeb: wc3 finally supports heroes with over 9000 power level |
| 22:09.09 | Ketho | ops, I meant Mr_Rabies |
| 22:09.39 | Mr_Rabies | please don't get me on a power level number rant |
| 22:10.33 | kd3 | well I guess that'd go well with the dbz map |
| 22:19.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@217-209-12-6-no170.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 23:07.28 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/kd3) |
