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| 02:46.14 | *** topic/#wowuidev is 8.0.x ToC: 80000 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://bit.ly/2MAEFxk || This channel is logged, via purl || Currently mode +r due to spam until a better solution is found. |
| 03:37.39 | TomCat | blizz devs - found an API bug (or maybe just an incomplete todo:) in the PTR: C_QuestChoice.GetQuestChoiceOptionInfo(1) will cause the game client to crash if it's called without a QUEST_CHOICE_UPDATE being fired - instead of a warning/usage message |
| 03:38.03 | TomCat | I've reported a bug via the PTR bug reporting system also |
| 03:39.22 | nebula | #justptrbuildthings |
| 03:39.50 | TomCat | it's a brand new function that isn't in live |
| 03:40.12 | TomCat | used in conjunction with the warfront table |
| 03:40.30 | nebula | and? was the crash an assert call? |
| 03:41.19 | TomCat | ERROR #128 (0x85100080) Attempt to access beyond the bounds of an array |
| 03:42.20 | TomCat | array size is 0 (as it should be at this moment) - that's not the issue... game client crashes might be a problem though :) |
| 03:42.58 | TomCat | just missing bounds checking - but as I said, might just be an incomplete todo that someone intends to tighten up before release anyway |
| 03:43.34 | TomCat | mentioning in case nobody is aware of it yet |
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| 06:16.20 | Fisker | Hey Seerah |
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| 15:30.47 | Andols | And my yearly question, anyone going to Dreamhack this weekend? |
| 15:36.32 | Funkeh` | Andols: will they provide you with a better internet so you stop disconnecting? <3 |
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| 15:55.35 | foxlit | pop quiz: how do you shut down win10 without installing updates? |
| 15:55.41 | foxlit | current best answer: you pull the power cord. |
| 15:58.59 | nevcairiel | pressing the power button should generally do that, if you have it configured to actually shut down |
| 15:59.29 | nevcairiel | (which is default on a desktop PC) |
| 16:00.56 | foxlit | "When I press the power button: Shut down" -> "Working on Updates..." |
| 16:01.02 | foxlit | I trusted you, nev. |
| 16:01.14 | nevcairiel | maybe you should just let it do its job! |
| 16:02.44 | foxlit | also from the "doesn't actually work" box of solutios: shutdown -s -t 0 |
| 16:11.37 | Fisker | You shouldn't be doing that foxlit |
| 16:11.42 | Fisker | eat your vegetables |
| 16:12.26 | Shockah | Why do you care if it updates or not during shutdown anyway |
| 16:12.41 | Shockah | As long as it doesnât update when using it |
| 16:14.19 | foxlit | because there's no indication of which updates it is installing or how long it will take. |
| 16:15.34 | foxlit | meanwhile, the reason I want it to shutdown cleanly is that I'm about to open the case and exchange some hardware components. |
| 16:24.37 | nevcairiel | yet in the l ast 20 minutes i'm sure it would've been done |
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| 16:36.09 | foxlit | That's a stupid argument. |
| 16:40.29 | nevcairiel | Nope. |
| 16:40.40 | nevcairiel | If finding a solution takes longer then just doing it, then you are doing it wrong. |
| 16:48.12 | foxlit | I think that only holds if I'm the only one to ever have that problem. |
| 16:49.18 | foxlit | also "please delay everything you're doing by 20 minutes" might not always be a viable solution |
| 16:49.52 | Simca_ | flipping the power switch on the power supply was probably the correct answer |
| 16:49.54 | Simca_ | as stupid as that is |
| 16:50.10 | nevcairiel | thats never a solution since that can result in data loss |
| 16:51.00 | Simca_ | if you didn't ensure your stuff was already done doing things prior to doing it, sure |
| 16:51.28 | Simca_ | but assuming he's swapping out hardware components he probably knows how to exit programs properly |
| 16:52.13 | nevcairiel | controlling write buffers etc is not as trivial as closing applications |
| 16:54.01 | nebula | you use to be able to click on your desktop and hit alt-f4 and you'd get the regular shutdown and restart options in addition to the "update and" |
| 16:54.23 | Simca_ | i mean you're not wrong, but things would have to be pretty wildly backed up for that to matter. worst case scenario you'd clip a couple log files and cache files |
| 16:54.41 | Simca_ | and programs that write those are designed to function with or without them |
| 16:55.23 | nebula | wonder why they went out of their way to force you to update |
| 16:56.21 | Simca_ | several studies have shown that most times there have been major security issues, patches were available but people kept hitting 'no i dont want to update' |
| 16:56.35 | Simca_ | take away that option and you fix that problem |
| 16:56.52 | nebula | more like take that away and people go to even more extreme lengths to avoid updating |
| 16:57.10 | nevcairiel | except 99% of those people wont know how to do that |
| 16:58.11 | nevcairiel | everyone can click "no" on an update prompt |
| 16:58.25 | nebula | sure, i'm not talking about that, though |
| 16:58.45 | Simca_ | there should probably some sort of at least powershell command to skip updates on shutdown |
| 16:59.15 | Simca_ | i mean there probably is, considering i still think it's all contained in update service |
| 16:59.39 | Simca_ | stop that and you stop updates, unless windows forcibly restarts it during the shutdown sequence |
| 17:00.13 | Stanzilla | just use 2 systempartitions like android/chromeos |
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| 20:10.36 | znf | foxlit, doesn't Shift+Click work anymore? |
| 20:11.19 | znf | or maybe I'm remembering it wrong *shrug* |
| 20:11.48 | foxlit | I think I fumbled around with modifier keys and the text didn't change, but I can't be sure if I hit shift or if that means it wouldn't work. Maybe next time. |
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| 20:24.04 | znf | nah, I googled, apparently shift+click on shutdown just forces a full shutdown instead of a hybrid one |
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| 21:38.07 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: you mean like a small fraction of Android devices that implement Treble? ^^ |
| 21:38.36 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 21:38.45 | Stanzilla | has nothing todo with treble though |
| 21:38.52 | Stanzilla | small fraction was correct :D |
| 21:39.05 | Gnarfoz | isn't that literally what Treble is |
| 21:39.10 | Gnarfoz | A/B boot |
| 21:39.37 | Gnarfoz | or was that another easily forgettable project name that means nothing in itself |
| 21:40.52 | Gnarfoz | [16:55:22] <foxlit> pop quiz: how do you shut down win10 without installing updates? <-- is this Home? I get "Shut down and update" and "Shut down" on both Pro and Enterprise |
| 21:41.32 | Gnarfoz | (right there on the power icon in the start menu, where I'd expect such an option to be) |
| 21:43.00 | Gnarfoz | (maybe that sentence needs a "usually". perhaps they can flag certain security updates to be unskippable, like Simca_ mentioned) |
| 21:44.26 | foxlit | no, it's Pro. |
| 21:51.01 | foxlit | amusing: whatever it was, it's not actually showing in update history, which is claiming that nothing has been updated for more than a week (or maybe the logged update dates are silly). |
| 21:53.13 | Thunder_Child | I have had that before, but I just assumed it is related to the issue where updates install themselves multiple times. |
| 21:53.46 | Stanzilla | no, treble is software layer |
| 21:53.58 | Gnarfoz | eventvwr.msc > Application and Services Logs > Microsoft > Windows > WindowsUpdateClient > Operational > Details |
| 21:54.21 | Gnarfoz | Stanzilla: oh, the decoupling thing? right |
| 21:54.25 | Stanzilla | yes |
| 21:55.14 | Gnarfoz | https://source.android.com/devices/tech/ota/ab wtb |
| 21:56.11 | Stanzilla | it would be great but Windows does not really have a concept of a restricted OS partition that nothing else can touch |
| 21:56.23 | Stanzilla | also precious SSD space |
| 21:56.33 | nebula | pfft, ssds are cheap now |
| 21:57.20 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: that doesn't seem to log installs, only "update downloaded" and "X updates found" messages. |
| 21:57.26 | Stanzilla | sure |
| 21:57.58 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: true, but maybe the details page which lists the name of the updates can give you a hint (unless it downloaded multiple recently) |
| 21:57.58 | Stanzilla | maybe Windows Core supports it in the future |
| 21:58.29 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: I assume TrustedInstaller logs to somewhere there as well, I just couldn't find it quickly |
| 21:59.47 | Gnarfoz | actually, it's right in Windows Logs > System, with WindowsUpdateClient as the source |
| 22:05.07 | foxlit | okay, so the install dates in the UI are perhaps more accurately described as "I was prepared to install this update on this date, but didn't actually do that" |
| 22:12.33 | Chipzz | 17:56 < Simca_> take away that option and you fix that problem |
| 22:12.44 | Chipzz | you know what happens then? |
| 22:12.51 | Chipzz | let me tell you about firefox |
| 22:13.28 | Simca_ | i find firefox's constant MAY I PLS UPDATE annoying as all get out |
| 22:13.30 | Chipzz | when Firefox 57, which was a major addon breaker, was released, I read up on it upfront and decided I di not want to upate |
| 22:14.02 | Chipzz | so upgrade day comes along, firefox asks me "Do you want to upgrade?", I click no |
| 22:14.30 | Chipzz | firefox decides "But this update is t3h 4w3s0m3, I assume you meant yes and upgrade ANYWAY" |
| 22:14.38 | Chipzz | leaving me with a broken firefox |
| 22:14.50 | Chipzz | next thing I did, downgrade to ff 56 |
| 22:14.54 | Simca_ | i just replaced my two broken addons with equivalent ones |
| 22:15.08 | Chipzz | next, go to about:config, disable ALL updates |
| 22:15.18 | Chipzz | to this day, I am STILL running ff 56 |
| 22:15.26 | Chipzz | even though it is outated an insecure as fuck |
| 22:15.58 | Chipzz | firefox, despite the arrogance of its developers, does NOT know better than me :p |
| 22:16.24 | Chipzz | I keep clicking away the grey bar which tells me that a critical security update is available |
| 22:16.26 | nebula | rolls his eyes |
| 22:16.36 | Funkeh` | arrogance of it's developers from moving away from a shitty method of extensions? |
| 22:16.49 | Chipzz | because I am thoroughly disguested by its practices and blatant disregard for the users decisions |
| 22:16.56 | Funkeh` | or arrogance for update annoyance |
| 22:16.57 | nebula | and yet you use it |
| 22:17.06 | nebula | sure showing them |
| 22:17.06 | Chipzz | no, arrogance of upgrading ANYWAY when I explicitely told it not to |
| 22:17.37 | Chipzz | "Do you want to upgrade?" - "NO" - "I'll upate anyway" is arrogance |
| 22:17.51 | Simca_ | i doubt that was intentional |
| 22:17.53 | Funkeh` | i see |
| 22:18.07 | Simca_ | but anyway, afaik, every single addon except DownThemAll has a 57+ version by now |
| 22:19.01 | Chipzz | anyway, just reacting to Simca_'s opinion about taking away user choice |
| 22:19.56 | Simca_ | that wasn't actually my opinion, it was me explaining why microsoft removed the choice. i'm somewhat mixed on it. |
| 22:20.01 | nebula | users are dumb, sometimes you just got to save them from themselves |
| 22:20.14 | Chipzz | and some users aren't :) |
| 22:20.27 | Funkeh` | it does kinda sound like a bug to be fair |
| 22:20.43 | Chipzz | also, corporate IT departments often want to be in control of what software and what versions their users run |
| 22:21.14 | Chipzz | so taking away the choice altogether is a no-go |
| 22:22.09 | Simca_ | the business stuff i use through amazon is super strict about that |
| 22:23.01 | Simca_ | you have 30 days to make your computer 100% compliant with latest updates for every single application on the system or it will be quarantined from the network |
| 22:23.21 | Simca_ | and it has scanners in the background to ensure compliance and check for updates |
| 22:24.46 | Chipzz | some VPN software also does that |
| 22:28.59 | znf | I'd beat you with a stick for refusing updates |
| 22:31.07 | znf | Firefox should have thrown away those extensions years ago |
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| 22:58.05 | Gnarfoz | well, they did |
| 22:58.18 | Gnarfoz | also, want old crap? could have used Firefox ESR |
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| 23:05.04 | Gnarfoz | (for a time, it's based on 60 now) |
| 23:05.22 | Simca_ | to be fair, there was some drama around that addon switch. apparently the new stuff doesn't support a couple of APIs that the old one did, even though it could. seemed like FF devs just didn't care because literally like 2 addons used them. |
| 23:05.56 | Funkeh` | firefox's webextensions api tends to offer more functionality than chrome already, i frequently see complains from devs on github that they can do X or offer X protection in firefox but not chrome |
| 23:06.05 | Funkeh` | so probably just a matter of time for whatever is left |
| 23:06.44 | Simca_ | yeah it was the DownThemAll author who was upset iirc, file writing support with the new API was not good i think |
| 23:06.53 | Simca_ | which is not something many addons need |
| 23:12.44 | znf | isn't that on purpose? |
| 23:13.01 | znf | I mean, that feature it's by nature a security risk |
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| 23:30.34 | Chipzz | there is plenty of other useful functionality that died that way too |
| 23:31.03 | Chipzz | and saying only 1 or 2 addons used them is ignorant, because often exactly that one addon can make a world of difference |
| 23:35.25 | znf | downthemall is not exactly a... normal use case scenario |