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| 00:32.48 | Thunder_Child | Hmm, so does the 110 boost at 60+ no longer give you boosted prefessions as well? |
| 00:34.18 | znf | now that professions have their own expansion progress, I don't think there's many reasons why they' still give you that |
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| 00:52.09 | jaxdahl | Thunder_Child, i don't believe so, no |
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| 00:59.56 | znf | mother on lfr is exactly what I expected |
| 01:00.01 | znf | wipefest! |
| 01:00.27 | Semlar | really? we did it in 2 pulls |
| 01:00.44 | znf | that should be one-shot :P |
| 01:01.16 | Semlar | i believe we wiped when the entire raid went through the first wall at once |
| 01:01.38 | Semlar | and then we did it in groups |
| 01:02.35 | Constie | Oh LFR. |
| 01:03.16 | znf | yes :D |
| 01:03.25 | znf | can't you just go to last room directly? :D |
| 01:04.22 | Semlar | we didn't go anywhere near the last room |
| 01:04.32 | Semlar | i think we killed her in the second room |
| 01:04.42 | znf | oh, I forgot about the AmA |
| 01:05.50 | Alram | tldr 8.1 on ptr next week toodles |
| 01:05.57 | Alram | u welcome |
| 01:05.58 | znf | neat |
| 01:06.00 | Constie | We almost killed her in the second room on normal this week because weren't going as fast as we should have been. |
| 01:06.01 | znf | kthx |
| 01:06.26 | Semlar | i don't remember where we killed her on heroic |
| 01:07.12 | Semlar | i think it was the second to last room |
| 01:10.38 | znf | Here's a stupid question |
| 01:10.56 | znf | Didn't they say that you need to kill 3 bosses, in any difficulty, to get a new stack of Reorigination Array? |
| 01:11.46 | znf | because I did LFR - 3rd boss first, now I killed Taloc and Mother |
| 01:11.56 | znf | and it says I still have to defeat one |
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| 01:35.22 | znf | Oh. So the 370 piece of gear from Warfront is once per cycle |
| 01:35.23 | znf | neat |
| 01:41.31 | Constie | I'd be quite surprised otherwise, since that's the same as heroic raid loot. |
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| 01:52.03 | Mr_Rabies | man i miss el's anglin' |
| 01:52.14 | Mr_Rabies | i want good info on midnight salmon |
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| 02:12.46 | jaxdahl | znf, 3 bosses in any difficulty within the week to get your stack for the week |
| 02:12.56 | jaxdahl | try re-equipping it? |
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| 02:23.38 | Mr_Rabies | wonder if raidbots can see the stacks with simc addon |
| 02:24.08 | Mr_Rabies | cause right now wild fleshrending is handily beating it with 6+ bosses down in uldir in the last 2 lockouts |
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| 06:59.19 | AcidWeb | AMA tldr; |
| 06:59.20 | AcidWeb | "In the AMA there is a lot of talk about regrets and poor decisions, but why no actual substance in terms of moving forward and how they plan on addressing the issues. It seems all we are seeing is admissions and excuses." |
| 07:03.18 | AcidWeb | You could condense all Ion responses to a single twitter message and you will get same amount of specifics. |
| 07:04.50 | AcidWeb | Ion "Waffle" Hazzikostas |
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| 09:01.11 | znf | jaxdahl: I got it on the 4th...but that's stupid |
| 09:20.54 | AcidWeb | - We're crafting systems with an eye towards the grand scheme of the game as it unfolds over the course of many months. - Cool. Can we pay $15 per grand scheme instead of $15 per month then? |
| 09:20.55 | AcidWeb | 10/10 |
| 09:21.39 | nevcairiel | anyone that ever expected any specific is just delusional anyway |
| 09:22.35 | AcidWeb | Well I not expected 100 point repair plan. But a just a crumb something that is not a BS. |
| 09:23.04 | nevcairiel | unless someone asked a specific question that they happend to already have a specific answer prepared for and were going to release soon anyway, no gaming company in the world is just going to make up some answers on the spot, because the internet is full of dumb people and is going to cry "promises" after anyway |
| 09:25.56 | AcidWeb | Anyway if they tried to cool community a little with that AMA they failed miserably. |
| 09:26.42 | nevcairiel | the community is always this way |
| 09:26.56 | nevcairiel | right now is always the w orst it has always been |
| 10:08.16 | ls- | yeah, one of few reason why blizz stopped talking to the playerbase as much as they used to back in wotlk or cata times, is the "promises" thingy, heck, they even stopped revealing anything that's not ready for testing on alpha/beta/ptr realms at blizzcon or wherever |
| 10:09.20 | ls- | azerite system is a shitshow though |
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| 10:16.32 | Gnarfoz | [03:41:43] <Constie> I'd be quite surprised otherwise, since that's the same as heroic raid loot. <-- Warfronts take longer to cycle than raids, though |
| 10:22.14 | Gnarfoz | a wild TSquare appeared! |
| 10:22.30 | Gnarfoz | I have a hat with his signature on it \o/ |
| 10:22.32 | Gnarfoz | fangirls |
| 10:53.25 | Torhal | ls-: He kept mentioning the Azerite "catch up" system, like that was enough reason for people to stop bitching that their upgrades are downgrades. |
| 10:55.07 | nevcairiel | part of that is that people dont have all rings unlocks, and that helps with that of course |
| 10:55.57 | nevcairiel | much of the complaints are really a lot of hyperbole though - you get an item with the wrong stats (in this case: trait) and it may be worse then one you wear. gearing in wow for the last 10 years. |
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| 11:06.50 | znf | nevcairiel: true, but they werent' so vocal about ilvl back then |
| 11:08.36 | znf | they've took a lot of steps in the direction of "you get a higher ilvl piece, you equip it right away" |
| 11:09.12 | znf | see gem removal, enchant removal, reforging, gear upgrading (valor anyone?) |
| 11:11.55 | znf | my ilvl 370 shoulders (from warfront) sim about +0.24% higher than 340 from mythic dungeons |
| 11:12.08 | Infus | a lot of that is matter of perspective, e.g. you lost "set bonuses" in new raids. But, the way this system feels is still, that you get a new item and your class looses something |
| 11:14.02 | znf | +0.30 actually https://i.imgur.com/gdoN2AK.png |
| 11:14.34 | Infus | in a way, getting better items is a illusion as each raid is tuned to having those items. But to design a system that is so clearly a treadmill is bad. |
| 11:15.30 | Infus | The old artifact never took away old traits. It just keep on piling bonuses, and that felt much better. |
| 11:15.36 | znf | indeed |
| 11:15.45 | Gnarfoz | WoW is a treadmill, what else is new :D |
| 11:15.47 | znf | it made you look forward to some things |
| 11:16.02 | Gnarfoz | you're saying they need to try harder to trick you into thinking it isn't? |
| 11:16.02 | nevcairiel | actually in the one patch they took away the first endless-farming trait |
| 11:16.04 | Infus | sure, it is. Good design doesn't feel like a treadmill. |
| 11:16.06 | nevcairiel | i forgot what it was called |
| 11:16.06 | znf | "oh neat, next week I get to put one more point here" |
| 11:16.33 | znf | it was futile, but you looked forward at least :D |
| 11:16.36 | nevcairiel | condensed it into one trait and then added new ones |
| 11:16.39 | Infus | that's a good point, that endless trait. Because they didn't take away the power, they condensed it |
| 11:16.58 | nevcairiel | the condensed version was weaker then the full 20 pointer |
| 11:17.16 | znf | but we were given extra points for the new circle-thing |
| 11:17.20 | znf | if I remember corectly |
| 11:17.23 | Infus | Was it? Wasn't it 0.5 per point before and +10% afterwards |
| 11:17.35 | nevcairiel | it was like 6% after or so |
| 11:17.39 | Infus | They could have taken it away and tuned the raid differently, which would have been the same. But instead they condensed it, which felt better. |
| 11:17.39 | Constie | The smart thing to do is to just assume all traits are equivalently strong and not sim them, and then item level upgrades are always upgrades. |
| 11:17.52 | znf | I remember that I didn't have it maxed, so the patch was an upgrade for me, plus extra points to put in the new tree |
| 11:18.16 | Gnarfoz | Constie: keep calm and dps on, indeed |
| 11:18.54 | znf | but they're not :P |
| 11:19.01 | znf | I gotta get my +haste traits! |
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| 11:19.51 | Gnarfoz | there is no satisfying min/maxers, it seems they've realized that by now, if not given up trying :D |
| 11:20.01 | Infus | and they didn't learn from legandaries how hard it is too balance a ton of different effects |
| 11:20.04 | znf | if ( trait != haste ) { scrape() } |
| 11:20.04 | Infus | and made it worse |
| 11:20.39 | znf | Gnarfoz: to be honest, for me it's not even the damage that matters, but when I lose haste I wheep a bit :( |
| 11:20.51 | znf | with the stupid GCD changes, haste makes the gameplay enjoyable |
| 11:21.27 | Torhal | Constie: With the ring unlocks, though, an upgrade is actually a downgrade in cases because you're losing traits. |
| 11:22.04 | Torhal | Sometimes the ring unlock levels are wildly different for the same traits on same-iLevel equipment. |
| 11:22.05 | znf | it just feels bad because right now we're grinding azerite to unlock THE SAME traits |
| 11:22.32 | nevcairiel | the inner rings are often not that powerful that it makes a +15 ilvl item worse |
| 11:22.32 | znf | we're unlocking the 2nd-to-last ring to get... a shield |
| 11:22.50 | nevcairiel | the last ring is just ilvl anyway, the base increase makes up for that |
| 11:22.52 | Constie | Ah, but you can assume that the numbers are balanced such that one ring on a 370 item is stronger than two rings on a 340 one. |
| 11:22.55 | nevcairiel | the one fore that is defensive utility |
| 11:23.00 | nevcairiel | also not that crucial |
| 11:23.05 | nevcairiel | so at worst its the outer two |
| 11:23.35 | nevcairiel | plus a buttload of primary stats |
| 11:25.56 | s_e_ | so, I have a question. I get "*** has been blocked from an action only available to Blizzard UI. You can disable the addon and reload the UI" every time I try to do some guild promotions. Is this to do with the Community update? Is there a happy way to avoid it? |
| 11:26.13 | s_e_ | i.e. a way I can get around it without nuking half my UI |
| 11:26.21 | AcidWeb | Welcome in World of Taint. |
| 11:26.29 | nevcairiel | reload before doing that, it can often help |
| 11:26.41 | AcidWeb | Yep. Something is using dropdowns. |
| 11:26.44 | s_e_ | so is it possible to track the tainting addon? |
| 11:27.05 | s_e_ | I get a different addon every time that message comes up |
| 11:27.53 | AcidWeb | Community system is currently tainted even by strong wind. In most cases it is caused by dropdown taint. |
| 11:27.55 | znf | do you want to be miserable? |
| 11:28.03 | AcidWeb | https://www.townlong-yak.com/bugs/Kjq4hm-DisplayModeCommunitiesTaint |
| 11:28.39 | nevcairiel | those workarounds have never helped for me |
| 11:29.18 | s_e_ | Hmm, thanks. I'll give that a read. I think it might be some of the guild admin addons we use. |
| 11:29.56 | s_e_ | but it also could be somewhere in the mess that is real ui (I'm quickly coming to the realisation that compliations and reskins are hell) |
| 11:34.01 | s_e_ | oh god, I've got about 24 files using UIDropDownMenu_Initialize |
| 11:34.23 | s_e_ | although at least a few of them seem to specifically be fixes for the taint issue |
| 11:49.28 | foxlit | nevcairiel: think you could come up with more reliable repro steps, then? |
| 11:58.33 | foxlit | (to be fair, I don't actually expect anyone to hit https://www.townlong-yak.com/bugs/Kjq4hm-DisplayModeTaint through normal code; assigning displayMode manually is weird. https://www.townlong-yak.com/bugs/afKy4k-GetSelectedIDTaint is easier, but clearly it's not the only thing going wrong if you still have a problem with that patch) |
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| 12:32.47 | Gnarfoz | s_e_: your best bet is to disable any addons that interact with any of the old (and new, I guess) guild features |
| 12:33.10 | Gnarfoz | for me that's picoGuild (and TradeSkillMaster for some reason) |
| 12:34.20 | Gnarfoz | also, you can enable the taint log (/console taintLog 1), and check \Logs\taint.log afterwards; no guarantees on the accuracy of that, either, tho :P |
| 12:35.27 | s_e_ | <3 |
| 12:36.48 | s_e_ | I'll look into it after raid |
| 13:00.02 | Gnarfoz | from Q&A: "We can't fix mechanics and rotational issues that way, [...]" pfff, I remember getting new talents via hotfix during 7.0! :P After 2 years, I still wonder where that tech went. |
| 13:00.43 | nevcairiel | we also had strong login lag from too many hotfixes in that time =p |
| 13:15.49 | Gnarfoz | did we? o_O |
| 13:16.33 | Gnarfoz | (my 28 MB dbcache.bin from BfA fits that description, though :P) |
| 13:31.41 | foxlit | you hotfix ONE talent and the angry hordes will hold it against you for YEARS if you don't fix all their class issues before the next major patch. ;) |
| 13:49.50 | Gnarfoz | not what I meant |
| 13:54.59 | foxlit | the tech is still there, it's just that using it will make the community issue worse |
| 13:57.06 | foxlit | "They hotfixed $notMySpec, clearly Blizzard hates $allOtherSpecs, unsub now!" |
| 14:07.45 | nebula | something something morally grey something something made it to the water |
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| 15:56.18 | Andols | The cycle of expantions can be cruel |
| 16:32.36 | Mr_Rabies | hmm, is there a way i can link whatever item i am mousing over in a macro to raid chat? |
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| 16:32.58 | foxlit | hm, a zuldazar Loh quest, that's a first. |
| 16:33.52 | foxlit | imagine if they made like 20 of those with some actual story and difficulty progression. |
| 16:34.41 | nevcairiel | after the first three there would be whining how the WQ is now hard and idiot #3 cannot complete it |
| 16:35.15 | nevcairiel | we cant have any resemblence of challenge in such content |
| 16:35.18 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: be satisified that someone made a programming language reference WQ |
| 16:35.36 | nevcairiel | they even moved the stupid underwater note quest pickup in siege of boralus because whining |
| 16:35.38 | foxlit | there's a programming language reference wq? |
| 16:35.46 | Gnarfoz | the one you just mentioned |
| 16:35.47 | nevcairiel | "Make Loh Go" |
| 16:36.08 | foxlit | ah, a clear reference to Go? |
| 16:36.09 | nevcairiel | Logo Turtle graphics |
| 16:36.11 | Gnarfoz | to Logo |
| 16:36.21 | nevcairiel | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)#Turtle_and_graphics |
| 16:36.56 | nevcairiel | using turtle graphics was one of my first computer graphics experiences |
| 16:40.34 | foxlit | so, um, a turtle that moves in 4 directions and leaves behind a slime trail? |
| 16:41.09 | nevcairiel | more like it moves in any direction, but it leaves behind a trail |
| 16:41.13 | Mr_Rabies | http://blog.core-ed.org/files/2014/08/logo_turtle-21.png |
| 16:46.39 | Mr_Rabies | is it even possible to grab the item link in a way that can be sent to chat for an item you are mousing over in your bags? |
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| 16:48.42 | nevcairiel | sure |
| 16:48.43 | foxlit | yes. |
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| 16:49.41 | Mr_Rabies | mostly just want to /RW ROLL MS [mouseoveritemlink] and then start a DBM timer |
| 16:49.48 | Mr_Rabies | since none of the loot roll addons do what i want right now |
| 16:50.31 | Andols | https://wow.gamepedia.com/API_GameTooltip_GetItem |
| 16:50.34 | Andols | ? |
| 16:50.57 | AcidWeb | rclootcouncil support personal loot quite nicely |
| 16:51.21 | Mr_Rabies | yeah but everyone has to have it installed, and i'm not sure it's configurable to how we do it |
| 16:51.46 | Mr_Rabies | we only roll off items people don't need, they all pass it to loot master (me, at the moment) |
| 16:52.01 | Mr_Rabies | and then i roll everything off during trash between bosses |
| 16:52.50 | Mr_Rabies | there are some out there that look sorta promising but they try too hard to do too much |
| 16:53.08 | Mr_Rabies | i really just want something to keep track of /rolls for a set period of time, and then let me pick the winner |
| 16:53.37 | AcidWeb | Well installing it raid-wide sound like way more less work. |
| 16:53.56 | AcidWeb | And you can remove rolling from equation. |
| 16:54.13 | Mr_Rabies | instead since there's nothing that really lets me do that i'm going to just do it manually, and a macro to type /RW ROLL MS [itemlink] and start a dbm timer would be nice |
| 16:54.21 | AcidWeb | *way less work |
| 16:54.41 | Mr_Rabies | why would i want to remove rolling from the equation? that's how we distribute loot |
| 16:55.14 | AcidWeb | sure but rclootcouncil roll automatically |
| 16:56.06 | Mr_Rabies | until you get someone that forgot to enable it or we got a new member and we gotta spend 20 minutes before each raid teaching them how to install it |
| 16:56.33 | AcidWeb | well new members should come prepared to raid |
| 16:56.51 | Mr_Rabies | they should, but they don't |
| 16:56.51 | AcidWeb | and older need to care if they want any loot |
| 16:56.57 | nevcairiel | if they cant install an addon that requires no setup on the users side, they dont deserve loot |
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| 16:57.03 | AcidWeb | ^ |
| 16:57.10 | nevcairiel | thats how we dealt with it when we used rclc for actual loot distribution in legion |
| 16:57.22 | Mr_Rabies | the only addon we require is either DBM or bigwigs |
| 16:57.30 | Mr_Rabies | if i HAVE to do that, i might, but i'd rather not |
| 16:58.23 | AcidWeb | Well obviously that is your raid but in my personal opinion you wasting time. |
| 16:58.31 | Mr_Rabies | there was one that almost worked perfectly in legion, but it was a bit broken in legion, but really broken now |
| 16:58.54 | Mr_Rabies | that just tracked /rolls for a set amount of time |
| 16:59.10 | Mr_Rabies | and i found another one that ALMOST gets there too with a new addition |
| 16:59.28 | Mr_Rabies | it can roll off multiple items at once, the raid just does /roll 101 for first item /roll 102 for second item, etc |
| 16:59.57 | Gnarfoz | AcidWeb: rclc also rolls "internally", not using the blizzard function, so... yeah. that's not something I'd want |
| 17:00.31 | AcidWeb | Well if there are some trust issues then problem is waaay bigger than looting system. |
| 17:00.47 | Mr_Rabies | but unfortunately that one (persolootroller) is like, designed for a loot master to roll off EVERY item and tries to use some kinda logic instead of just letting me handle it |
| 17:01.22 | nevcairiel | you cant roll off every item, since they may not be tradeable |
| 17:01.38 | Mr_Rabies | it seems to know if they are or aren't |
| 17:01.41 | nevcairiel | its impossible to know if a item is really going to be tradeable or not |
| 17:01.47 | AcidWeb | it is |
| 17:01.50 | Mr_Rabies | if we did it that way, it would be perfect |
| 17:02.03 | nevcairiel | since smoeone might have gotten a higher drop before and just not wearing it, etc |
| 17:02.15 | Mr_Rabies | but we don't, and i don't think it's fair to take loot from people that could use it, no matter what |
| 17:02.19 | AcidWeb | you just scan tooltip if in include trading infomation |
| 17:02.26 | nevcairiel | on you yourself sure |
| 17:02.29 | nevcairiel | not for items others got |
| 17:02.49 | Funkeh` | if you require everyone to have the addon, it's a simple broadcast |
| 17:02.52 | AcidWeb | and how that is a problem when everybody have addon? |
| 17:02.59 | Mr_Rabies | yeah it was trying to roll off rings for people that needed it and stuff and i had to go HOLD UP IGNORE LOOT ROLLS THIS ADDON IS GOING ROGUE |
| 17:03.06 | nevcairiel | didnt we just get that he didnt want doing that? :P |
| 17:04.08 | AcidWeb | Well we talking about generic solution that is efficient ð |
| 17:04.13 | Mr_Rabies | we still have people that can't figure out raidbots that install dbm once per expansion and i have to walk them through updating it every tier |
| 17:04.28 | foxlit | Realistically, what you want is implementable in about 30 lines of code. |
| 17:04.29 | Mr_Rabies | this is a dead server we have to unfortunately take idiots |
| 17:04.38 | nevcairiel | besides if you roll off everything thats tradeable, but people obviously can keep whats not, that encourages lazy gearing behavior |
| 17:04.38 | Mr_Rabies | we are at least picky enough to only take idiots with good personalities, but still |
| 17:05.48 | Mr_Rabies | i don't like having to walk people through tech support when we are already 5 minutes late starting raid because the raider didn't bother getting discord ahead of time |
| 17:06.04 | nevcairiel | kick em, take them next time |
| 17:06.07 | foxlit | (the entire select items, monitor rolls, announce timers, announce winners bussiness) |
| 17:06.08 | nevcairiel | stop babying them |
| 17:06.17 | Mr_Rabies | then we wind up with 6 people like we had at the end of legion |
| 17:06.22 | Mr_Rabies | canceling every week :( |
| 17:06.57 | Mr_Rabies | unfortunately we have to baby people if we want to have a group that is more than just the guild officers |
| 17:07.21 | AcidWeb | Well I personally use this type of flow: Player get item that can be traded -> Popup is displayed with question if he want to give it away -> If yes item is handled rclootcouncil -> Officers decide who gets the item (often based on automatic roll) -> Item owner trade item to the winner. |
| 17:07.36 | AcidWeb | RL don't touch any items as he don't have time for this type of shit. |
| 17:07.54 | Mr_Rabies | i'm just in charge of loot pretty much, the only RLing i do is call stuff the RL forgets to call |
| 17:08.08 | Mr_Rabies | like the start of the laser beams on mother |
| 17:08.22 | foxlit | you sound redundant, though |
| 17:09.23 | Mr_Rabies | i probably would be in a perfect world, but forcing people to install an addon that handles loot stuff through back channels instead of a blizzard-supported way doesn't really work for me |
| 17:09.27 | foxlit | someone gets loot they don't want -> link it in chat picking a random number for /roll range -> watch for rolls for 10-30 seconds -> trade item to whoever rolled. |
| 17:09.52 | Stanzilla | that does not get croudy at all with 30ppl |
| 17:09.57 | Stanzilla | crowdy |
| 17:09.58 | Stanzilla | whatever |
| 17:09.59 | Funkeh` | foxlit: you don't actually think that's a viable way to deal with loot going forward? :P |
| 17:10.21 | Funkeh` | can pretty much guarantee some addon will get popular, blizz will be like "we need to add this", and something will be changed in the UI |
| 17:10.25 | Funkeh` | tis how it always happens |
| 17:10.27 | Mr_Rabies | that's why we have a loot master, someone to handle all the rolls, and also decouples the item from the player that won it so you get less personal grudges |
| 17:10.51 | AcidWeb | personal grudges are out of scope problem |
| 17:10.55 | foxlit | 30 people is what, 5 drops per boss? |
| 17:11.04 | Mr_Rabies | it's not an out of scope problem if it's within MY scope |
| 17:11.05 | AcidWeb | if somebody is not a team player it is fixed by /gkick not a addon |
| 17:11.12 | nevcairiel | there is so many things that never got integrated into the game, i doubt some kind of loot-trading-helper is ever going to make it |
| 17:11.14 | Mr_Rabies | it's out of scope for an addon, but not out of scope for me |
| 17:11.18 | Mr_Rabies | that's why i'm not redundant |
| 17:12.00 | Mr_Rabies | that's why i don't want an addon handling everything - everything goes to me, i distribute based on rolls |
| 17:12.18 | Funkeh` | ^another reason why it will be integrated into the base ui |
| 17:12.39 | AcidWeb | Only i wow had some system like... master looter. |
| 17:12.41 | AcidWeb | Oh wait. |
| 17:12.56 | Mr_Rabies | usually before we're to the next boss i can roll off 8+ items with time for everyone to roll between each boss |
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| 17:13.39 | Mr_Rabies | the only thing i really need is a timer to make sure evryone has time to determine upgrade or not, which dbm already provides, and something to keep track of rolls, which i am okay just keeping track of myself |
| 17:15.10 | Mr_Rabies | this is what we used in legion, but it's just too broken in bfa https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/roll-master |
| 17:15.49 | Mr_Rabies | i need to just teach myself how to write these stupid things one day |
| 17:15.53 | Mr_Rabies | but i have no clue where to start |
| 17:17.09 | foxlit | 1. Write a slash command that accepts item links and prints them back to chat. |
| 17:17.27 | Mr_Rabies | now that everyone's under the same loot system i imagine there will be some good stuff coming out in bfa for this |
| 17:17.29 | foxlit | 2. Modify it to send chat messages. |
| 17:17.35 | nevcairiel | that addon should barely interact with any crucial UI systems, its probably not broken by much |
| 17:17.58 | Mr_Rabies | it was even a bit broken in late legion, and it's way more broken now |
| 17:18.23 | Mr_Rabies | it's technically designed to work with true masterloot but you could jerry rig it to roll off any item |
| 17:18.33 | Mr_Rabies | except sometimes if you entered combat it'd lose track of rolls etc sometimes |
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| 17:22.09 | Mr_Rabies | we also do the same thing for BOEs, but if no one needs them for MS they will be sold for guild repairs/flasks/etc |
| 17:22.36 | Mr_Rabies | i think it's a pretty fair loot system - if you need it and it dropped for you, it's yours |
| 17:23.24 | Mr_Rabies | BoEs from guild raid runs cannot be sold by the person that gets the item so long as they wish to remain a member of the raid team, but that person gets first dibs for equipping it |
| 17:23.29 | Torhal | Mr_Rabies: No idea if this will even remotely work for you, but I saw this the other day: https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/persolootroll |
| 17:23.45 | Mr_Rabies | yeah i tried it, it's so close but not quite |
| 17:23.50 | Mr_Rabies | that's the one that was rolling off everyone's items |
| 17:24.01 | Mr_Rabies | it started rolling off rings and stuff that dropped for other people without any input from me |
| 17:24.07 | Mr_Rabies | i was like WHOAHWOAHWOAH |
| 17:24.19 | Torhal | Make a feature request? :) |
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| 17:24.29 | Torhal | It's only like 3 months old. |
| 17:24.29 | Mr_Rabies | yeah it's definitely on my radar |
| 17:24.47 | Mr_Rabies | i will probably try to find a good way to phrase what i'm asking for |
| 17:25.25 | Mr_Rabies | the UX needs some work and it's entirely possible i could have configured it to not do that but only being able to test something in a current raid is not optimal lol |
| 17:33.45 | s_e_ | re: logo, the tutorial quest for tortolans gave me some serious BBC Micro flashbacks (only British people and Acorn obsessives will get this) |
| 17:34.05 | s_e_ | aaaand I just noticed that's what you were talking about |
| 17:35.47 | s_e_ | @nevcairiel, think there's a few online versions of Turtle/Logo kicking around now |
| 17:35.58 | s_e_ | so you can relive your glorious childhood like me. |
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| 20:37.26 | Gnarfoz | is the in-game Lua error display just gone completely? |
| 20:37.35 | Gnarfoz | the "your UI has too many errors" blah popup still refers to it |
| 20:39.45 | foxlit | it's hidden behind a cvar that has no associated UI. |
| 20:42.10 | foxlit | /console scriptErrors 1 changes it back to sanity |
| 21:05.44 | Gnarfoz | I see |
| 21:20.25 | Semlar | first one who can figure out how to search wowhead for a spell that increases frost damage taken wins |
| 21:21.42 | nevcairiel | what do we win |
| 21:21.54 | Semlar | the satisfaction of a job well done |
| 21:22.58 | Semlar | found it |
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| 23:13.23 | foxlit | most important feature in 8.1: new icons and graphics for mage portals. |
| 23:13.52 | foxlit | https://www.wowhead.com/spell=268969/portal-boralus << how lazy is this nonsense? |
| 23:15.48 | Alram | Boralus portal has Theramore texture right? |
| 23:16.03 | Alram | Had to do a double take first time |
| 23:16.33 | foxlit | yeah, that sounds right. |
| 23:17.58 | foxlit | (and the portal in silithus is using a mildly weird name) |
| 23:18.37 | Mr_Rabies | the mage portals have their transparency messed up on my client at least, too |
| 23:18.49 | foxlit | it's like someone went "oops, we forgot to add a portal to this place, better recycle all of the assets" |
| 23:18.51 | Mr_Rabies | they have an invisible box around them that highlights when you mouseover the doodad |
| 23:20.13 | foxlit | sounds like you play with outlines enabled. |
| 23:20.27 | Mr_Rabies | i do, but only the new mage portals have the outlines bugged out |
| 23:20.42 | Mr_Rabies | it's like a 10x10 foot square around the portal that outlines |
| 23:20.45 | Mr_Rabies | instead of the portal itself |
| 23:21.21 | Gnarfoz | yeah, that's not just you |
| 23:27.37 | Funkeh` | https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/09/13/pixels-suddenly-started-activating-battery-saver-almost-fully-charged/ "it seems very odd that Google has the ability to change system settings remotely on Android devices" |
| 23:27.43 | Funkeh` | i don't think i like this direction |
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| 23:30.40 | Funkeh` | "Not just Pixels. My Essential Phone did that today as well" |
| 23:31.53 | Gnarfoz | uh, Google has basically full control over any device with "google play services", how is this news? :P |
| 23:32.31 | Funkeh` | elaborate |
| 23:35.50 | Gnarfoz | well, as long as you intend to use any Google services, at least https://fossbytes.com/google-play-services-necessity/ |
| 23:37.06 | Gnarfoz | or check the permissions list straight from the store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.gms&hl=en :D |
| 23:37.23 | foxlit | Custom icons you place in Interface/Icons appear in the macro selection list twice |
| 23:37.30 | Funkeh` | you're not proving your point, these all all optional things you have control over |
| 23:37.59 | Funkeh` | you can disable permissions in google play services, but where does it say using it gives google remote control of your device? |
| 23:38.01 | foxlit | You can select either instance, but your selection disappears when you click "Okay" to save the icon. |
| 23:38.05 | Funkeh` | certainly not in that article |
| 23:38.20 | foxlit | It is impossible to drag the macro with an invisible custom icon. |
| 23:39.32 | Gnarfoz | if you don't disable them (which nobody does, except you, perhaps), that's more power than basically other app. and Google can put anything in that app and use those permissions to do whatever |
| 23:39.55 | Gnarfoz | (if you don't consider https://pastebin.com/axzBrJ5p (that's just the list from the store) "control of your device", then idk) |
| 23:40.45 | Gnarfoz | also, you're never asked to grant these permissions, it defaults to "one of everything, please" |
| 23:40.48 | Funkeh` | no, because no where does it say google itself is sucking out this data |
| 23:40.57 | Funkeh` | it's supposed to be a common interface for OTHER apps |
| 23:40.58 | Gnarfoz | sucking out data? |
| 23:41.08 | Gnarfoz | "give control" and "it being abused" are different things |
| 23:41.16 | Funkeh` | correct |
| 23:41.34 | Funkeh` | so where does it say Google can abuse google play services at will? |
| 23:42.57 | Gnarfoz | it's an app from Google, that has basically every permission, without you ever granting it. what more do you want? |
| 23:44.21 | Funkeh` | When was the last time Windows was remote changing your settings? |
| 23:44.31 | Gnarfoz | according to Stanzilla, every damn update :P |
| 23:44.39 | Funkeh` | ***remotely*** |
| 23:44.39 | Gnarfoz | (I was not affected so far) |
| 23:44.55 | Funkeh` | you CHOOSE to install an update |
| 23:45.04 | Gnarfoz | not for google play services |
| 23:45.18 | Funkeh` | this wasn't a google play services update |
| 23:45.33 | Funkeh` | this was remotely changing a system setting |
| 23:46.37 | Gnarfoz | so: they could a) deploy a version that changes things. does that count as "remote"? you wouldn't know, since these updates are done in the background. they could b) use their "full network access" permission to do it remotely. |
| 23:46.55 | Gnarfoz | (I'm not claiming they did or would ever do such a thing, but they *can*. that's all.) |
| 23:47.33 | Stanzilla | what is this namecalling here |
| 23:47.44 | Funkeh` | I'm aware they can, this article just proved it |
| 23:48.04 | foxlit | ... GetLooseMacroIcons and GetLooseMacroItemIcons both return {"filename."} for Interface/Icons/filename.tga, which nothing really accounts for. |
| 23:50.34 | Gnarfoz | Funkeh`: well, the author on AndroidPolice apparently wasn't aware. that's who I was reacting to. ;) |
| 23:52.43 | Funkeh` | *wasn't |
| 23:52.48 | Funkeh` | past tense |
| 23:52.50 | Funkeh` | no one was |
| 23:53.01 | Gnarfoz | uh... |
| 23:53.26 | Gnarfoz | back to "Google Play Services has these powers, how is this news", then |
| 23:53.40 | Funkeh` | the entire kernel has those powers |
| 23:53.45 | Funkeh` | wtf point you making bro |
| 23:54.05 | Gnarfoz | GPS can be updated in the background, without your knowledge AND has network access on top |
| 23:54.18 | Gnarfoz | so yes, the kernel could do this as well, but that's open source |
| 23:54.31 | Funkeh` | FOSS has nothing to do with this |
| 23:54.42 | Funkeh` | windows is closed and I don't expect microsoft to be able to remote change settings |
| 23:54.46 | Gnarfoz | that's hopefully what's preventing something like this from appearing in the kernel |
| 23:55.04 | Funkeh` | doesn't matter what's in the kernel :D |
| 23:55.19 | Funkeh` | what matters is if you have control over it |
| 23:57.46 | Gnarfoz | well, if you thought all those people and projects who want to have Android devices without Google services on them were just doing it for the lulz, think again. This is one of the reasons. :P |
| 23:58.16 | Funkeh` | I'm aware, but that's paranoia, this is proof. |
| 23:58.50 | Funkeh` | It's like saying "I don't like this system library having all this permission just because a company I don't like makes it" |
| 23:58.57 | Funkeh` | vs |
| 23:59.09 | Funkeh` | "The company I don't like actually abused that system api to change something on my device" |
| 23:59.14 | Gnarfoz | it's "I don't trust this company to not abuse this, or use it in a way I don't want", not "I don't like them" |
