| 00:13.34 | Ebony | maybe he just got lucky and just happens to be the time they came back |
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| 00:18.21 | *** topic/#wowuidev is 7.3.x ToC: 70300 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 02:13.18 | Chipzz | Ebony: well if that was his goal than he failed pretty hard because I was getting a laugh out of him :P |
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| 02:36.57 | Chipzz | Mr_Rabies: I have a HDD with the slowest possible speed; loading times are terrible; but even then STV reloads almost instantly (you don't need to reload textures, models or world data) because it's not Dalaran with hundreds of people each showing off their special snowflake mount |
| 02:37.43 | Mr_Rabies | mine is mostly bottlenecked by addons having a crossover war in the background |
| 02:37.54 | Mr_Rabies | i have way too much shit installed but i love it |
| 02:55.15 | Mr_Rabies | these "family rp" groups in group finder set off a lot of red flags in my head |
| 03:02.08 | Corrodias | frysquint |
| 03:02.14 | Corrodias | like they want you to call the tank "daddy" or what |
| 03:02.31 | Mr_Rabies | i don't know and i don't want to know |
| 03:02.36 | Mr_Rabies | but there's 16 people in one now |
| 03:02.58 | Mr_Rabies | things are getting amish, mormon, and/or really weird |
| 03:03.52 | nebula | or just multiple generations |
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| 04:02.17 | pompy | http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/technology/paypal-izettle-deal/index.html |
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| 08:54.09 | Infus | TheDanW: thanks for SmoothProgressBarMixin fix. |
| 08:55.17 | Infus | TheDanW: apparently tonumber("inf") has changed behaviour between live and 8.0. On live, that would return nil, on 8.0 it actually returns a infinite number. Which then can't be passed to e.g. GetSpellInfo. |
| 09:01.29 | Infus | and tonumber("nan") == tonumber("nan") is still wrong |
| 09:17.54 | nevcairiel | Infus: the behavior of nan and inf is often different between release clients and beta/test clients |
| 09:18.18 | nevcairiel | also if somehow your spell id gets infinte, you have other problems :p |
| 09:18.20 | Infus | hmm, okay, that sounds strange |
| 09:18.34 | Infus | well it's user input, it could be a spellname or a spell id |
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| 09:21.06 | nevcairiel | you can always compare to math.huge if thats a real concern |
| 09:21.45 | Infus | yeah that's what I'm going to do. |
| 09:21.59 | Infus | Just need to check all the hundred places we use tonumber |
| 09:22.46 | Infus | I'm just wondering whether the change was intentionally, or not |
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| 09:24.04 | Torhal | Infus: Another difference between live and beta/test is that division by zero causes errors on the latter. |
| 09:24.33 | nevcairiel | yeah test/beta uses much stricter math handling |
| 09:24.41 | Torhal | I mean, technically both conditions should occur on live as well, but I guess they ¯\_(ã)_/¯ until they want to test new things. |
| 09:25.00 | nevcairiel | its floating point, technically division by zero is allowed |
| 09:25.05 | nevcairiel | even if it results in nan |
| 09:25.51 | Torhal | nevcairiel: How's HBD-2.0? |
| 09:25.57 | Infus | right, so thanks, knowing that it might be just a beta thing helps |
| 09:26.07 | Torhal | I need to buckle down and start rewrites, but I depend on HBD. |
| 09:26.15 | nevcairiel | looking for dragons everywhere, like usual |
| 09:26.30 | Torhal | Wait... I thought the dragons were _here_. |
| 09:26.41 | nevcairiel | you can only claim that after you found them! |
| 09:26.46 | Torhal | Well, fuck. |
| 09:26.53 | Torhal | Find them, Infus. |
| 09:26.54 | Torhal | >.> |
| 09:27.02 | nevcairiel | but it should be working fine |
| 09:27.16 | Torhal | Have updated docs, or should I look at the code? |
| 09:27.25 | Torhal | I mean, the callback still isn't documented... :D |
| 09:27.57 | nevcairiel | interestingly i actually documented the callback in the HBD-2.0 docs =p |
| 09:27.58 | Fisker | hey Torhal |
| 09:27.58 | nevcairiel | https://www.wowace.com/projects/herebedragons/pages/api/here-be-dragons-2-0 |
| 09:27.58 | Fisker | i |
| 09:28.00 | Fisker | damn |
| 09:28.15 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Hah, nice. :D |
| 09:28.25 | nevcairiel | its really quite similar to the old API |
| 09:28.33 | Fisker | you never colon D at me Torhal :( |
| 09:28.40 | nevcairiel | mapID/floors replaced by uiMapID, C/Z and mapFile APIs removed |
| 09:28.44 | Torhal | You're not allowed to damn things, Fisker; only Holy Men⢠and really pissed-off people have that ability. |
| 09:28.51 | Fisker | ah |
| 09:29.01 | nevcairiel | if you need to do user-generated data migration there is also HBD-Migrate |
| 09:29.06 | nevcairiel | but i didnt document that |
| 09:29.11 | nevcairiel | but it really only has two functions anyway |
| 09:29.41 | Torhal | The only thing I need is a C/Z replacement, but only for the C part. I suppose I need to map the C/mapID now. |
| 09:30.07 | nevcairiel | i think framexml even has helper functions for that |
| 09:30.30 | Torhal | And the only reason I need the continent portion is for UI purposes - on Kalimdor, in zone X, you'll find this. |
| 09:30.54 | Torhal | Otherwise, I just use mapID. |
| 09:30.56 | nevcairiel | MapUtil.GetMapParentInfo(mapID, mapType, topMost) |
| 09:31.10 | nevcairiel | just pass continent for mapType and it'll tell you which continent is the parent of your map |
| 09:31.21 | Torhal | Hrm, okay. I'll check that out. |
| 09:31.23 | nevcairiel | (also, only one continent exists, so skip topMost) |
| 09:31.25 | Torhal | Thankye. |
| 09:31.51 | nevcairiel | Enum.UIMapType.Continent that is |
| 09:32.11 | Torhal | This whole map rewrite will finally allow me to get over myself and rewrite Archy to not completely suck. |
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| 09:32.55 | Torhal | For the record, I really like how they're segmenting the UI code these days. |
| 09:33.04 | nevcairiel | you could basically do all those things without HBD even w ith the new API which is somewhat neat for simple things, however the table-based coordinate API of C_Map is a tad bit inefficient for my taste |
| 09:33.05 | Torhal | Despite all conventional (and outdated) wisdom. |
| 09:33.40 | Fisker | btw Torhal have any cats? |
| 09:34.04 | Torhal | Well, yeah - I figured once they were rid of the whole stateful mess it would be very simplified and HBD would be a modest wrapper, but hey - simpler is simpler. |
| 09:34.24 | Torhal | No, Fisker. |
| 09:34.27 | Fisker | aw |
| 09:34.27 | Torhal | Many cats have me. |
| 09:34.32 | Fisker | oh nice |
| 09:34.44 | nevcairiel | every coordinate request involves multiple tables, which is really a bit too much garbage if you like position a lot of minimap nodes every OnUpdate or something |
| 09:35.31 | nevcairiel | so HBD just extracts the data from the API and works like before |
| 09:35.32 | Torhal | What I really want, and am not sure is possible even with the new changes, is coordinate mapping between the WorldMap and Minimap. |
| 09:35.52 | nevcairiel | that is possible |
| 09:35.59 | Torhal | So I can actually place, for example, a waypoint _from_ the minimap. |
| 09:36.10 | Torhal | Didn't used to be, at least to my knowledge. |
| 09:36.32 | Torhal | Or, even, having a minimap POI set a TomTom waypoint. |
| 09:36.55 | Torhal | Like a "rare" vignette. |
| 09:36.58 | nevcairiel | it is possible when you click on the minimap and get a waypoint to that click location |
| 09:37.08 | nevcairiel | you can however not retrieve the position of elements the game shows on the minimap |
| 09:37.19 | Torhal | Meugh. |
| 09:37.31 | nevcairiel | (and the first was already possible with HBD in legion) |
| 09:37.42 | Torhal | Huh, wasn't aware. |
| 09:38.02 | nevcairiel | thats not really a coordinate problem, since when I can show a pin from the world map on the minimap, then I can also translate a click back |
| 09:38.13 | nevcairiel | but the second thing is just the minimap being very opaque about its contents |
| 09:39.45 | Torhal | TheDanW: WTB! :D |
| 09:39.58 | nevcairiel | i'm sure thats intentional |
| 09:40.32 | nevcairiel | if you could waypoint every herb that gets in r ange, that might be a bit too much |
| 09:40.32 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Shhhh! |
| 09:41.10 | Torhal | Oh, herbs? Yeah, no. |
| 09:49.44 | Torhal | I actually meant for things such as vignettes. Nodes should stay off-limits. |
| 09:52.17 | Torhal | nevcairiel: How are you accounting for upgrades, when you're using the same project? |
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| 09:55.38 | Torhal | I understand the whole major/minor schema of LibStub, so... having a new major version on the same project, which the Twitch App will auto-update to... seems bad. |
| 09:58.10 | Chipzz | having read through libstub code a couple of times I think the major/ minor names are the worst misnomers I've ever seen |
| 09:58.54 | Chipzz | seriously wtf, major version, which in just about every other piece of software is a pure number, is a string? really? *rolleyes* |
| 09:59.14 | Chipzz | "doing it different just because" |
| 09:59.26 | Torhal | No. Major is "This will fucking break all of your shit" whereas minor is "You MIGHT need a migration" |
| 09:59.27 | Chipzz | but in the end that's just an implementation detail |
| 09:59.47 | Chipzz | no. name = MyLib, major = 1, minor = 0 |
| 09:59.57 | Chipzz | not major = MyLib1, minor = 0 |
| 10:00.03 | Chipzz | the latter is seriously fucking braindamaged |
| 10:00.07 | Torhal | However, when using an updater tool like the Twitch App... it'll update to the 2.0 version even if you absolutely are using the 1.0 version. |
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| 10:00.54 | Torhal | Well, when you use a separate project, as has always been the convention, any implied brain damage has always been mitigated. |
| 10:01.13 | Chipzz | libstub is literally *THE ONE* exception using the terminology in such a twisted way compared to literally every other iece of software that is not LibStuv |
| 10:01.25 | Chipzz | *LibStub |
| 10:01.26 | Torhal | In this case, though, old projects will be broken if someone has decided to use a disembedded setup. |
| 10:01.49 | Chipzz | but again, I'm talking about the names of the variables, so implementation detail |
| 10:01.53 | Chipzz | still confusing as fuck |
| 10:02.27 | Torhal | And I don't give a fuck if the majority of WoW devs now see disembedded as antiquated (which, in reality, with the computer setups we have now... it definitely is). |
| 10:02.47 | Torhal | The fact of the matter is that there are likely thousands of people who will have their shit seriously broken. |
| 10:04.10 | Torhal | There have been bad practices in place for years, like the whole "THIS IS NOT A BUG OMFG!!!!!! USE THE LATEST ALPHA YOU IDIOT!!!!!" which has caused large portions of _everyone's_ userbase to use alphas. |
| 10:04.41 | Torhal | The whole system is broken. But we know how, so we should try to avoid as much breakage as we can due to that knowledge. |
| 10:05.08 | Chipzz | wow has a rolling release schedule anyway |
| 10:05.41 | Torhal | They've also largely abandoned the original intent of the Interface portion of the ToC. |
| 10:05.55 | Torhal | They break shit all the time without an Interface change. |
| 10:06.16 | Torhal | "Let's add these function parameters IN THE GODDAMN MIDDLE OF THE ORIGINALS" |
| 10:06.25 | Chipzz | hmyeah |
| 10:06.26 | Torhal | ...and not bump the Interface. |
| 10:06.36 | Chipzz | but then again that's kind of a mess anyway |
| 10:06.50 | Torhal | Still... if they had adhered to the intent... |
| 10:06.52 | Chipzz | lets say addon1 uses api a, addon2 uses api b |
| 10:06.53 | Torhal | Anyway. |
| 10:07.03 | Chipzz | blizzard updates api b, should addon1 break? |
| 10:07.17 | Chipzz | you can only bump API version globally |
| 10:07.26 | Torhal | The fact of the matter is that shit is broken by convention for over a decade, and we don't have anything in place other than "Don't fucking break legacy things" |
| 10:07.33 | Chipzz | but you can't indicate changes in a certain subsystem |
| 10:07.40 | Torhal | You're right. |
| 10:07.57 | Torhal | But when they're breaking big things, like CLEU... |
| 10:08.00 | Chipzz | soname works on linux because libraries tend to be granular |
| 10:08.05 | Torhal | WHich they've done twice without a ToC bump... |
| 10:08.24 | Chipzz | but wow combines multiple unrelated APIs (AH has nothing to do with combat) in one package |
| 10:08.42 | Torhal | All I'm saying is, despite all the bullshit, we have known for a decade how to sidestep it. |
| 10:08.52 | Torhal | HBD is breaking with that knowhow. |
| 10:08.58 | Chipzz | HBD? |
| 10:09.06 | Torhal | HereBeDragons |
| 10:09.13 | Chipzz | ah |
| 10:09.25 | Torhal | The 2.0 version is using the same project as the 1.0 version, so the Twitch App will happily just fucking update it. |
| 10:09.54 | Torhal | ...which is the same behavior as the Curse Client going back a decade. |
| 10:10.15 | Torhal | ...which is why every new _major_ version change of a library always created a new project. |
| 10:11.33 | Torhal | LibStub will work as intended, either way. |
| 10:12.01 | Torhal | But the fact that someone who is using disembedded libraries will see their version be overwritten by something that doesn't work with legacy AddOns... |
| 10:12.05 | Torhal | That's fucked. |
| 10:13.45 | Torhal | Despite the fact that the opinion for/against disembedded libs has changed over the years, the fact that there are people who insist on their continued support hasn't changed. |
| 10:13.56 | Torhal | So we're not dropping support. |
| 10:26.03 | Torhal | Apologies, nevcairiel - I asked you how you were handling updates and then ended up basically attacking you. Was not my intent. |
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| 10:40.25 | nevcairiel | Torhal: the project just includes both versions with Legion/BfA load guards, shouldnt be a problem |
| 10:41.11 | Torhal | nevcairiel: It absolutely is when the updater that everyone uses overwrites what their legacy AddOns use with the new version. |
| 10:41.29 | nevcairiel | how does adding a new file next to the old file cause any breakage? |
| 10:42.02 | Torhal | That's why, since TBC, there have been libs with multiple projects from 1.0 to 2.0, etc |
| 10:42.26 | Torhal | Next to? Your updates include both versions in the repo? |
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| 10:42.33 | nevcairiel | thats what i said |
| 10:42.49 | nevcairiel | i'll delete the 1.0 version w hen 8.0 launches |
| 10:42.49 | Torhal | Because the end-product zip will otherwise only include your latest. |
| 10:43.22 | nevcairiel | looking into the zip might prevent confusion =p |
| 10:43.47 | Torhal | I'll give you this: Blizzard is completely breaking the 1.0 version |
| 10:43.58 | Torhal | Otherwise, you'd be fucking your userbase. :P |
| 10:44.10 | nevcairiel | yeah, and I added a load guard to the top of the file to not even try to load on BfA |
| 10:44.17 | Torhal | Ah. |
| 10:44.20 | nevcairiel | and the inverse guard on the 2.0 version |
| 10:44.36 | nevcairiel | and both versions are included in the zip |
| 10:45.02 | Torhal | That isn't something I'd seen before - people always just started a new project when things went catastrophic. |
| 10:45.37 | Torhal | That was convention, for years and years, so when I saw you start HBD without a version... I was wondering... |
| 10:46.18 | nevcairiel | I did rename the stand-alone addon name from HereBeDragons-1.0 to just HereBeDragons recently though, but for those running disembed i made the packager include a shim for the old name |
| 10:47.14 | nevcairiel | (a fact that I mentioned on the HBD project page under 8.0 migration notes, so hopefully anyone that uses 2.0 saw that :p) |
| 10:47.47 | Torhal | Completely unrelated: Motherfucking _FUCK_ the whole "The Nighthold: Lord of the Shadow Council" quest. |
| 10:48.02 | Torhal | I completed it, and then by instinct left the raid group/ |
| 10:48.07 | Funkeh` | trying to get people to move to a new library version would be an absolute nightmare these days, the only reason I still have my libraries hosted by Curse |
| 10:48.24 | nevcairiel | they have no choice if the old one is just entirely broken :D |
| 10:48.27 | Torhal | So now? I have to REDO THE FUCKING RAID. |
| 10:49.37 | nevcairiel | if you have a cleared ID you should be able to just go there again |
| 10:49.45 | nevcairiel | if you did it in LFR then probably just need to re-do guldan |
| 10:50.03 | Torhal | Seriously, Blizzard eirther just went full-on "Fuck all the players for ALL THE REASONS!" or they have a completely new group who does this shit who has no idea how WoW has eveolved over the years. |
| 10:51.01 | Torhal | Having the floor yanked out from under you to the point where you have to repeat some strenuous (or at least tedious) shit because you were used to how things used to be done? |
| 10:51.09 | Torhal | Fuck you. With barbed wire. |
| 10:51.52 | Funkeh` | adapt or die |
| 10:51.55 | Funkeh` | welcome to life |
| 10:52.26 | Torhal | I understand that this game is done with a couple of hundred of people. But for fucks sake, there should be a goddamn consistency meter. Or QA should be involved at every step. |
| 10:52.34 | Torhal | Or goddamn something. |
| 10:53.26 | nevcairiel | honestly if i pick up a quest inside a raid, and my sole purpose right now is to do this quest, i would always check if i have to hand it in in the raid again before i leave :p |
| 10:54.25 | Ebony | that sounds fun |
| 10:56.22 | nevcairiel | personally I would like if the quest text more often mentions where you are supposed to go to hand it in afterwards, instead of just having people look on the map tho |
| 10:56.39 | nevcairiel | back in the good old days we didnt have quest info on maps and all of this was mentioned somewhere |
| 10:56.58 | Ebony | oh that was a "fun" time |
| 10:57.18 | Ebony | lost for hours! |
| 10:58.10 | Ebony | its kinda made me lazy though i don't even think i read quest text anymore :S |
| 10:58.45 | nevcairiel | there is probably even some lore to back using the map to quest, i mean if some guy sends you somewhere to do s omething, he might as well point on your map where that thing is |
| 10:58.48 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Point taken, but they keep moving the goal posts. You get used to shit and then it isn't just subtly altered... it's either flat-out removed or changed to be inscrutable. |
| 10:58.49 | nevcairiel | but still |
| 10:59.27 | Torhal | And these days, with LFG/LFR when you can be kicked from group... |
| 10:59.44 | Torhal | Why the FUCK would the turn-in be at the end of the dungeon/raid? |
| 11:00.14 | nevcairiel | wasnt that one of those quests you could initially not do in lfr |
| 11:00.16 | nevcairiel | or was that another one |
| 11:01.15 | Torhal | Not sure. I suddenly decided Legion would be an expension (albeit toward the end) where I wouldn't just level to max, do a few quests intermittently afterward, but ultimately just /reloadui. |
| 11:01.47 | Torhal | I got flying. I got exalted/revered with most. I did shit. |
| 11:01.52 | Torhal | For the first time since TBC. |
| 11:01.57 | Torhal | And this? Fuck this. |
| 11:02.10 | Torhal | Goes completely against convention. |
| 11:02.33 | nevcairiel | then again, how would you know recent convention if you havent really done this since TBC? |
| 11:02.34 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 11:02.52 | Torhal | Then again, the whole goddamn game does. You get used to one way of doing things from one zone, and then.... because a completely different group of people did it, the mechanics change. |
| 11:03.13 | Torhal | Because I did level up to max and intermittently did things afterward. |
| 11:03.26 | Torhal | This is the first time I've actually decided to once again go all-in. |
| 11:03.32 | nevcairiel | a lot of guildies fell into that trap as well, but we could just let them in our clear ID again so it was mostly a nuisance and not all that bad |
| 11:03.34 | Torhal | And the inconsistencies are staggering. |
| 11:04.04 | Torhal | It's clear that they had completely different groups of people design and implement the different zones. |
| 11:04.31 | Torhal | The mechanics for just about everything are not uniform. |
| 11:05.01 | Torhal | The former is fine, if there are guidelines and oversight (or just QA). |
| 11:05.34 | Torhal | But when you never know what to expect, based on what you'd come to expect from the previous zone clear? Wow. |
| 11:06.14 | Torhal | Changes between expansions, sure. Actually, definitely. |
| 11:06.30 | Torhal | But changes from one area to the next, within the same expansion? What the actual fuck?!? |
| 11:07.50 | Torhal | The inconsistencies are boggling. But, as I said, with such a large team... fine. Okay, I get it. Doesn't make it easier to swallow. |
| 11:08.16 | Torhal | The UI team, though, is finally starting to show cohesiveness. |
| 11:09.12 | Torhal | Especially with BfA. |
| 11:11.04 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Do your load guards load the old library? |
| 11:11.19 | Torhal | Are you maintaining all iterations in the same code? |
| 11:11.43 | nevcairiel | its separate files, one file loads on legion, one on bfa |
| 11:12.40 | nevcairiel | both in the same repo |
| 11:12.50 | Torhal | Nice. I"d try the same for my own libs had I not fallen in with the old-style 1.0/vNext style we established all those years ago. |
| 11:13.48 | Torhal | Though, I think I'll do the same after making the next new project ofr those libs. |
| 11:14.32 | Torhal | s/ofr/for/ |
| 11:15.19 | nevcairiel | its not like I really planned that from day 1, but after looking at my options knowing that i'll need to make a fully incompatible version, this seemed like a better option |
| 11:15.40 | nevcairiel | most libraries change version because the author wants to |
| 11:15.44 | nevcairiel | not because the game makes them to |
| 11:16.34 | Torhal | Not the game, no; the updater. It doesn't know/care about the actual contents. |
| 11:16.51 | Torhal | But your method makes a single lib work across boundaries. |
| 11:17.00 | Ebony | classic is just going to be one big headace for addon devs...... |
| 11:17.09 | Torhal | Ebony: Maybe not. |
| 11:17.15 | nevcairiel | i still expect them to run the game on the 8.0 client |
| 11:17.22 | Torhal | Well, maybe not as much as you'd think. |
| 11:17.47 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Classic implies not having all the goodies we have now. Maybe I'm wrong. |
| 11:18.07 | Ebony | can they even do that?, stuff like eyes of the beast of like ripped out the enginge |
| 11:18.12 | Torhal | But we'll, if it's actually classic, have to worry about ammo and keys again at least.' |
| 11:18.44 | Ebony | ya more problems like that am thinking |
| 11:19.01 | nevcairiel | the classic addon engine was full of holes to make bots |
| 11:19.01 | Ebony | sayiig like 90% of cassic dungons and raids got remade |
| 11:19.05 | nevcairiel | they're not going to get you that |
| 11:19.20 | nevcairiel | more likely to port the old assets to the new engine |
| 11:19.45 | AcidWeb | I still consider classic servers a total waste of manpower. |
| 11:19.46 | Ebony | ya ture you could do some much with the AP if player is < 50% hp use heal rank 9 |
| 11:20.19 | Torhal | Ebony: They are doing another stats-squish with 8.0, so... |
| 11:20.42 | Torhal | Maybe it will only be "classic" in the sense that they have 40-mans again, etc. |
| 11:20.45 | Ebony | ya am in beta |
| 11:21.30 | Ebony | but its not going to be really "classic" if we using the same tanet trees and the same cata leveling zones etc..... it be more like well :P server set max cap to 60 |
| 11:21.33 | Torhal | And with their phasing stuff, they can simply omit the new versions of the dungeons/raids we have now |
| 11:21.58 | Torhal | Yeah, that's why I was thinking it would really be the 1.12 API. |
| 11:22.11 | Torhal | But really? Unless they spin up a whole new team... |
| 11:22.33 | Torhal | And then there's the snowball of "TBS servers!!!!" |
| 11:22.41 | Torhal | s/TBS/TBC/ |
| 11:22.55 | Ebony | sounds like a lot of work, and we all know players will hate it becouse leveling is to slow gear to slow and i can nerver get in a dungon group! |
| 11:23.27 | nevcairiel | thats why most of us serious people never expected it to actually happen |
| 11:23.30 | nevcairiel | its a huge trap |
| 11:23.34 | pnorman | Ebony: but that's the real classic experience |
| 11:23.43 | Ebony | i know |
| 11:24.02 | Ebony | i played it, i quit after level 45 after waseing 6 months of my life on the game |
| 11:24.19 | Ebony | cam back late tbc |
| 11:24.26 | pnorman | They should restrict the addons to those that were around in classic. No nice easy to use all in one boss mods. :D |
| 11:24.33 | nevcairiel | i enjoyed classic just fine, but that was 15 years ago and i was a bored school kid |
| 11:25.26 | Ebony | i just started work and just did not have the time + my bother got me banned.... |
| 11:27.17 | Ebony | well am guessing it;s going to be a good 2 years atleast |
| 11:27.50 | Funkeh` | pretty sure the api level will be the same as live |
| 11:28.18 | Funkeh` | they aren't just going to publish the old code, think of it in line of "HD remakes" of other games |
| 11:31.01 | Ebony | i guess we have to find out at blizzcon or when if there is a beta |
| 11:31.21 | pnorman | My idea of classic is of course different than they're probably going to implement - I tend to think of the earlier days, not 1.12 |
| 11:31.48 | Ebony | before addons far back? |
| 11:31.56 | Ebony | that would fix the problem i guess |
| 11:32.05 | nevcairiel | addons basically existed since day one, more or less |
| 11:32.20 | Ebony | ah right |
| 11:32.21 | pnorman | Before the secured stuff |
| 11:32.26 | Funkeh` | remember at one point addons technically weren't supported |
| 11:33.04 | Ebony | i did not start doing addon stuff intill wod so |
| 11:34.01 | Ebony | updateing from wod > legion seemed easy legion > bfa is not easy |
| 11:34.50 | Funkeh` | wod > legion wasn't really much of an expansion in terms of api changes |
| 11:35.07 | Funkeh` | legion > wod is the more typical thing |
| 11:36.30 | Ebony | then again its not really the api end i think am having problems with its just somtime in my addon is making Fps drop and sceeen lag |
| 11:36.42 | Ebony | somthing* |
| 11:37.02 | pnorman | For vanilla, I think of after ZG, but before AQ was open for raiding. Maybe earlier than that for PVE. |
| 11:37.03 | Funkeh` | also the map rewrite is a massive undertaking that has a knock on effect on various other things, just glad they chose to do it considering it will mostly be transparent to the end user |
| 11:37.44 | Funkeh` | can't imagine trying to justify it to one of the uppers |
| 11:38.35 | pnorman | WOD to Legion felt like not much of an expansion in terms of storyline advancement either compared to any of the previous expansion transitions |
| 11:38.55 | nevcairiel | i imagine the primary reason is to be able to actually properly extend the map again and introduce new things that show on the map without it being a terrible nightmare |
| 11:42.51 | Ebony | i guess when you keep hacking at code somtimes its better to just start agian? |
| 11:43.36 | Ebony | they seem to show a lot on maps now |
| 11:45.54 | Torhal | Ebony: Starting over again after enormous amounts of tacking-shit-on-because-new-stuff does take its toll is definitely a thing. |
| 11:47.10 | Torhal | The UI is definitely starting to come along now, aside from the still-existent "if event is X then elseif event is y then" chain bullshit. |
| 11:48.35 | Torhal | The new Pool stuff they're doing, I'd (and probably many other people) been doing since TBC. |
| 11:48.54 | Torhal | The thing that's great about that is that now there's a central pool. |
| 11:49.02 | Ebony | ya thats way over my head i think |
| 11:49.22 | Torhal | Re-using frames instead of creating new ones every time you need one. |
| 11:49.37 | Funkeh` | yeah, because pooling your shit alongside blizz's shit has always worked well in wow historically, *cough* taint hell |
| 11:49.55 | Torhal | Well, frames/tables in my case, no ideas if the new Pool syste does both or just Frames. |
| 11:50.07 | nevcairiel | you can use it for whatever |
| 11:50.32 | nevcairiel | but there is no global pool for any frames of any sort, its all for specific purposes |
| 11:52.38 | Ebony | is more stuff going to change in beta with addons or we don't know yet |
| 11:52.52 | nevcairiel | the big changes are probably done now |
| 11:54.28 | Ebony | oh just seems odd they not given us keys yet, unless i missed somthing i already got in anyway |
| 11:55.00 | Funkeh` | don't think it will matter much, ptr is imminent |
| 11:56.17 | Ebony | that is ture |
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| 12:04.19 | Torhal | Ebony: I think they transitioned away from giving Author Keys. |
| 12:05.00 | Torhal | No idea what they're actually doing now, but it seems from what I'm seeing they're doing repeat customers. |
| 12:05.24 | Torhal | People (including Authors) from past years are getting automatically included this time. |
| 12:05.27 | Ebony | there given keys out to top twitchers |
| 12:05.52 | Torhal | You'd better Twitch like you're having meth withdrawals, then... |
| 12:05.52 | Torhal | >.> |
| 12:06.20 | Ebony | i mean to give to other players |
| 12:06.41 | Ebony | i got in with from a friend |
| 12:07.40 | Torhal | Really, if what I'm seeing is reality it does make sense; they're not just letting "anyone" in now, and aren't doing mass-giveaways or even targeted ones, such as to authors. They're using their established base and targeting a market - streamers. |
| 12:08.29 | Torhal | If I'm right, and if they keep with that in coming years, you'll be in the next beta. |
| 12:08.31 | Ebony | ah ok |
| 12:09.51 | Fisker | I wonder if Torhal has any pictures of cats |
| 12:11.02 | Torhal | Fisker: You know I do. https://twitter.com/_torhal_?lang=en |
| 12:11.38 | Fisker | last cat was so many moons ago |
| 12:11.55 | Fisker | I'll follow just in case more cats happen |
| 12:12.16 | Torhal | Actually, Fisker, we rescued a female cat from South Carolina in December. |
| 12:12.31 | Fisker | What about the rest of the population? |
| 12:12.53 | Torhal | Due to medical issues, we had to cancel her spaying. Of course, because of that, she had two kittens on April 23rd. |
| 12:12.57 | Ebony | you got 20 cats? |
| 12:13.05 | Torhal | Ebony: 23 now. |
| 12:13.20 | Torhal | Momma and two new kittens we didn't want to have. |
| 12:13.42 | Ebony | dam! crazy cat person! |
| 12:14.08 | Torhal | Literally the day of the spaying for the momma, my GF had to go to the hospital for a few days. |
| 12:14.08 | Fisker | that's very 21st century of you |
| 12:14.20 | Torhal | Two months later... |
| 12:14.50 | Torhal | Fisker: What, exactly, is so 21st century of me? |
| 12:14.53 | Fisker | not you |
| 12:14.54 | Fisker | Ebony: |
| 12:14.58 | Fisker | minus colon |
| 12:15.10 | Ebony | becouse i said person? |
| 12:15.14 | Fisker | yes |
| 12:15.16 | Torhal | makes a note to always remove Fisker's colon. |
| 12:15.34 | Fisker | What won't you do for our sins? |
| 12:15.41 | Torhal | :O |
| 12:16.32 | Torhal | Fisker: I just pinged you, with a colon. Please don't die. |
| 12:16.38 | Fisker | It's okay |
| 12:16.54 | Fisker | I might be in prison soon |
| 12:17.00 | Fisker | So it'll be for the best |
| 12:17.33 | Torhal | Did your government finally catch up with you for talking in IRC to foreigners? |
| 12:18.07 | Fisker | nah |
| 12:18.17 | Fisker | I rigged an election |
| 12:18.24 | Torhal | Is it because you once killed a guy? |
| 12:18.26 | Torhal | Oh. |
| 12:18.37 | Torhal | That's way more serious than killing a guy. |
| 12:18.46 | Ebony | defo |
| 12:19.52 | Ebony | but, still that going to suck |
| 12:20.49 | Torhal | What is? Being Fisker, or being Fisker in prison? |
| 12:21.00 | Fisker | Not both? |
| 12:21.12 | Torhal | Well, fuck you for ruining a non-argument. |
| 12:21.19 | Fisker | It was just hilariously bad security |
| 12:22.09 | Fisker | There's this union thing for all public workers |
| 12:22.25 | Torhal | So... wait... |
| 12:22.27 | Fisker | And they're voting on their new contract |
| 12:22.36 | Torhal | You're actually fucking serious about prison? |
| 12:22.44 | Fisker | Probably not prison |
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| 12:22.58 | Fisker | But the last guy who did something like this was reported to the police |
| 12:23.05 | Fisker | And they charged him |
| 12:23.20 | Torhal | No matter how many times I almost feel sorry for you, you almost universally make people want to punch you in the taint. |
| 12:24.07 | Fisker | Honestly I don't know, this guy is still awaiting trial |
| 12:24.39 | Torhal | I honestly have no idea what to make over what you're saying. |
| 12:24.55 | Torhal | You, at first, say you're going to prison. Maybe. |
| 12:25.05 | Torhal | Then you go on and on about "this guy" so... |
| 12:25.08 | Torhal | WAT. |
| 12:25.28 | Fisker | Okay |
| 12:25.55 | Fisker | About a year ago some guy found a service that allowed you to get names of people by inputting social security numbers |
| 12:26.25 | Funkeh` | sounds about right |
| 12:26.44 | Ebony | i think i get it. he did rigged some voting, and somone else did the same before and got reported and there waiting trial, so if he gets reported then he could go down the same road? |
| 12:26.44 | Fisker | There was no rate limiting or any kind of security around it, just clientside JavaScript could trivially extract thousands of names |
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| 12:27.36 | Fisker | He reported it to them and they instead tried to threaten his employer and then they filled charges with the police |
| 12:27.42 | Fisker | He's still awaiting trial |
| 12:28.05 | Fisker | This union thing I'm talking about has a vote about whether or not to accept the new contract |
| 12:28.22 | Ebony | oh right |
| 12:28.24 | Fisker | The same thing applies, except I can also vote on their behalf |
| 12:29.21 | Fisker | I did that and sent it to them because they wouldn't listen when I told them what a collosal mistake that is |
| 12:30.12 | Fisker | So I just gave them a few names and a few social security numbers |
| 12:31.09 | Torhal | Erm, okay. |
| 12:31.48 | Torhal | So... dude does shit, non-maliciousally, and reports that he was able to do these things. Said dude is legally threatened. |
| 12:32.02 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 12:32.08 | Torhal | You decide to back him us, using the same measures. |
| 12:32.12 | Torhal | I got it. |
| 12:33.02 | Torhal | Even though, in MY OPINION, what he did was fine, you, knowing Bad Shit Was Happeningâ¢. decided to folloew suit. |
| 12:33.14 | Fisker | No no |
| 12:33.30 | Fisker | They're two separate instances of the same thing |
| 12:33.53 | Torhal | I love you, man, but you're on your goddamn own. Even if I was within your legal jurisdiction? Fuck, man. You're on your own. |
| 12:35.22 | Torhal | Granted, again, _in my own opinion_ you've done nothing wrong at all - this is publically-available information. |
| 12:35.44 | Fisker | What is publicly available? |
| 12:35.53 | Torhal | Seriously - despite their _intention_ that it _not_ be.... it is. |
| 12:35.56 | Torhal | Not your fualt. |
| 12:36.23 | Torhal | However, I keep seeing shit like this go sideways because of stupid. |
| 12:36.34 | Torhal | And stupid has all the power. |
| 12:36.50 | Fisker | That's true |
| 12:38.03 | Torhal | I mean, seriously - there was a guy who was convicted of _hacking_ because he wrote a program to increment URLs. |
| 12:38.17 | Torhal | ... |
| 12:38.42 | Torhal | That is, as far as I can tell, publically-available information. |
| 12:38.51 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 12:38.59 | Fisker | That's what I'm saying too |
| 12:39.02 | Torhal | He just wrote a script to make access faster. |
| 12:40.47 | Torhal | You're completely up against stupid, though, so... you're on your own unless you can publicize it and get someone like the EFF on your side. |
| 12:40.48 | Fisker | It's like you're walking on a field and suddenly some guy comes out and say you're trespassing and you're like "Oh but there wasn't any signs or fences" and the next thing you know you're in jail |
| 12:41.48 | nevcairiel | just be glad this is not america, you would be shot instead of jailed there! |
| 12:41.49 | Torhal | Exactly. But this has the same caveats; you're up against stupid or, more likely, simply absolute power tinged with arrogance. |
| 12:41.55 | Torhal | In other words, stupid. |
| 12:42.34 | Fisker | The case that's currently awaiting trial, the company is literally arguing copyright infringement too |
| 12:42.43 | Torhal | nevcairiel: In America? I'd rather be shot. |
| 12:42.51 | nevcairiel | i guess |
| 12:42.51 | Fisker | They say he modified the source code of the program |
| 12:42.59 | nevcairiel | you probably double-bunk in jails by now |
| 12:43.35 | Torhal | nevcairiel: Rape, guards being "on the take" etcetera. |
| 12:43.46 | Torhal | Fuck all that. End my goddamn existence. |
| 12:43.52 | nevcairiel | but private jails save so much money |
| 12:43.58 | Torhal | Fuck off. |
| 12:44.00 | Torhal | :P |
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| 17:09.25 | bluspacecow | https://i.imgur.com/jHAHSJn.gifv |
| 17:09.29 | bluspacecow | what is this ? |
| 17:12.49 | zenzelezz | a URL |
| 17:12.58 | Ebony | ha |
| 17:13.16 | Ebony | dancing? |
| 17:13.23 | zenzelezz | or if you mean the clip, it's two bros broing out |
| 17:13.32 | bluspacecow | which game ? |
| 17:13.48 | zenzelezz | Brofist online |
| 17:13.51 | Ebony | what game is out in 8 days? |
| 17:13.59 | bluspacecow | BfA! |
| 17:14.04 | bluspacecow | *cheeky grin* |
| 17:14.08 | Ebony | i hope not |
| 17:14.21 | AcidWeb | Hello Kitty Online: wrath of the lich king |
| 17:14.26 | bluspacecow | I know I know |
| 17:14.39 | bluspacecow | Candy Farm Animal Witch Saga |
| 17:14.53 | Ebony | ill go with acidweb on this one |
| 17:14.56 | zenzelezz | Hello Kitty Online: Wrath of Liu Kang |
| 17:15.29 | zenzelezz | good, that was his name |
| 17:15.52 | zenzelezz | my only experience with Mortal Kombat was playing the demo with Liu Kang and Sonya over and over on our Amiga |
| 17:17.02 | Ebony | that southpark esp epic! |
| 17:22.56 | zenzelezz | ? |
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| 17:33.53 | Ebony | i don;t play warcraft i play Hello Kitty Online |
| 17:38.02 | zenzelezz | that doesn't really answer my ? |
| 17:48.19 | Ebony | idk |
| 17:51.30 | Funkeh` | Is there a replacement for GetPlayerMapPosition? C_Map.GetPlayerMapPosition(C_Map.GetBestMapForUnit("player"), "player") returns a table... |
| 17:51.43 | nevcairiel | and the table contains the coordinates |
| 17:52.20 | Funkeh` | there needs to be one that isn't a table, I don't know of a use case for this that isn't an OnUpdate |
| 17:52.30 | nevcairiel | there isnt and there wont be |
| 17:52.49 | nevcairiel | all map stuff uses the vector2d mixin thing |
| 17:53.26 | Funkeh` | and they can't recycle the table because..? |
| 17:53.58 | zenzelezz | it's non-cyclable wood |
| 17:55.29 | Mr_Rabies | +bluspacecow> which game ? |
| 17:55.38 | Mr_Rabies | assets are from dark souls |
| 17:56.12 | Mr_Rabies | https://youtu.be/bzJDimvPW1Y |
| 17:57.23 | Mr_Rabies | alternative version with wow assets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOudUXxWPSs |
| 17:58.17 | Mr_Rabies | (environment is still undead asylum from dark souls) |
| 17:59.30 | Mr_Rabies | based on this video series https://youtu.be/aaGX4JdtQi8 |
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| 18:16.05 | bluspacecow | ty |
| 18:16.38 | Mr_Rabies | not enough memelords in this channel, clearly |
| 18:16.57 | zenzelezz | pfft |
| 18:17.08 | zenzelezz | there are just far too many memes these days to keep up |
| 18:17.10 | zenzelezz | coral |
| 18:17.34 | zenzelezz | TC must have loved the coral memes |
| 18:17.56 | Thunder_Child | Luckally, I have no idea what you are talking about. |
| 18:18.08 | Thunder_Child | luckily* |
| 18:18.14 | zenzelezz | I'd link you, but I know you wouldn't open it |
| 18:18.29 | Thunder_Child | Not having been forewarned. |
| 18:18.58 | zenzelezz | "coral" is basically a Walking Dead meme which for the most part are word play |
| 18:19.01 | zenzelezz | many bad, some good |
| 18:23.27 | zenzelezz | you won't open it, but for anyone else who wants an example of the quality (or lack thereof), http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/798/259/4b1.jpg is still my favorite |
| 18:23.59 | Thunder_Child | Ok, I think I have seen one or two before. |
| 18:24.17 | zenzelezz | it really only counts if you did it intentionally |
| 18:24.28 | zenzelezz | it's like rick rolling, it doesn't count if you didn't search for it yourself |
| 18:24.40 | Thunder_Child | I have never looked for it myself. |
| 18:24.51 | zenzelezz | I am not surprised |
| 18:26.35 | zenzelezz | the biggest issue with memes is how they almost always degenerate so quickly |
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| 18:57.12 | Chipzz | hi Breen! :) |
| 18:58.13 | Breen | Hello |
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| 20:15.05 | zenzelezz | it's a glorious time when a tweet "snow leopards biting their tails - a thread" can gain >100k likes in 24 hours |
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| 22:37.45 | Ebony | how would you track down a addon making fps drop, (when its your own addon) |
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| 22:44.47 | foxlit | you think to yourself "what stupid code did I write that's running now and taking forever?" |
| 22:45.13 | Ebony | i guess that the problem i did not wire all the code :S |
| 22:46.04 | Ebony | maybe iits the time when you think just start again |
| 22:48.48 | nevcairiel | the usual question would be, when does it happen, ie. what happens in the game? which code runs in response to that? etc |
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| 22:50.53 | Ebony | around players, and casting spells but to be fair there very little apart from a ace3 gui loaded |
| 22:51.30 | Ebony | maybe its just my pc and it seems worse when the addon loaded but even when out in the world its fine on live its just beta |
| 22:52.12 | Ebony | so somthing has changed i guess somewhere, am thinking its somthing to do with frames, |
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