| 00:01.17 | nevcairiel | my poor map library, it'll probably need rebuilding from the ground up |
| 00:04.05 | [TOM_RUS] | TheDanW: will new map system make it easier to add custom info on world map? or it does opposite? |
| 00:04.34 | nevcairiel | adding things to the world map was never particularly hard |
| 00:05.34 | [TOM_RUS] | but old system didn't support adding custom stuff |
| 00:05.40 | nevcairiel | like what? |
| 00:05.45 | [TOM_RUS] | it had to hack your stuff into it |
| 00:05.53 | [TOM_RUS] | like anything... |
| 00:07.03 | nevcairiel | the UI does not seem to change much yet, just the API behind it |
| 00:07.30 | TheDanW | yeah, the api docs got missed unintentionally, they'll be picked up soon |
| 00:08.23 | TheDanW | the world map is moving to a system closer to the flight map, so you basically create a data provider and just call :AddDataProvider on the map you want to add custom pins to |
| 00:08.41 | nevcairiel | interesting |
| 00:08.45 | nevcairiel | a lot of addon rewrite potential |
| 00:09.23 | TheDanW | the old world map code will probably be going away, there's a new addon that has the start of the new world map |
| 00:09.30 | nevcairiel | ah |
| 00:09.31 | TheDanW | its not yet accessible ingame |
| 00:09.44 | TheDanW | but you should be able to extract the code |
| 00:09.49 | nevcairiel | whats the deal with dungeon floors? do they get their own mapid now? |
| 00:11.29 | nevcairiel | seems like a good thing to identify every single map with just one id, carrying around pairs of data was always annoying |
| 00:12.12 | TheDanW | yeah, each floor is represented by a different map, there's map groups which basically contain a collection of maps that could represent floors |
| 00:16.11 | nevcairiel | man i totally need to revamp the public api of this library as well |
| 00:17.06 | nimhfree | so we no longer need the API GetCurrentMapDungeonLevel() because each level will be its own mapId? |
| 00:18.06 | TheDanW | yeah, GetCurrentMapDungeonLevel no longer exists |
| 00:21.19 | Simca_ | yeah WorldMapAreaID (the old thing we called MapID) is dead. Long live UIMapID |
| 00:21.50 | nevcairiel | the values seem to be the same, or someone forgot to update a bunch of them in the code, anyway |
| 00:22.23 | nevcairiel | if the old MapAreaID would go away, so much data in waypoint addons etc would be broken :D |
| 00:24.15 | Funkeh` | is it not more like an art file id then |
| 00:24.43 | nimhfree | can I assume GetCurrentMapAreaID() is going to return what is has always returned, namely a value that can be used in SetMapByID()? |
| 00:26.20 | nevcairiel | that function was also removed, or well, moved |
| 00:26.25 | nevcairiel | but supposedly yes |
| 00:26.57 | nimhfree | both functions re/moved? |
| 00:27.25 | nevcairiel | the first only so far |
| 00:27.41 | nevcairiel | its C_Map.GetCurrentMapID() now or s o |
| 00:31.07 | Simca_ | the values are not the same at all; they're very different |
| 00:31.36 | nevcairiel | so we're all screwed? |
| 00:31.47 | Simca_ | MapID (the thing some places call InstanceID) is the same, but the other thing, referencing the map the UI shows, that is totally changed |
| 00:31.56 | nimhfree | as long as Elwynn Forest always returns one value that is fine. However, if each subzone is returning a different value, then that will suck |
| 00:32.19 | nevcairiel | there is no subzones on that level |
| 00:32.43 | nevcairiel | they all show the same map |
| 00:32.54 | nimhfree | just an exampleâ¦.I want each zone to still have one value. if dalaran basement is different value that is ok, as I had handled it as dungeon level |
| 00:33.20 | Simca_ | before there was dungeonMapID, worldMapAreaID, and floorIndex |
| 00:33.24 | Simca_ | now there is UIMapID |
| 00:33.29 | Simca_ | if that makes sense |
| 00:33.56 | Simca_ | each mapID refers to a specific floor and only one floor. if you want the underbelly of dalaran, that's a different map than Dalaran now |
| 00:34.10 | nevcairiel | its just a bit sad that we wont be able to translate old mapAreaIDs to the new IDs without hand-crafting a table |
| 00:34.11 | Simca_ | each UIMapID* |
| 00:34.25 | nimhfree | that is ok. I just need to be able to map my old location values to the new ones |
| 00:34.27 | nevcairiel | cant even write a script to create a mapping from db2 files, not fool-proof anyway |
| 00:35.41 | nimhfree | all my NPC locations were in the format: mapId[level]:x,y where mapId was GetCurrentMapAreaID() and [level] only exists if GetCurrentMapDungeonLevel() was > 0 |
| 00:35.59 | nimhfree | so as long as I can convert mapId[level] to some new mapId it should be ok. |
| 00:36.07 | nevcairiel | you can, manually by hand |
| 00:36.37 | nevcairiel | unless we figure something out thats hidden so far |
| 00:51.16 | TheDanW | i'm doubtful that that is possible |
| 00:51.54 | nevcairiel | i could waste a week of my life and manually make a table |
| 00:52.27 | nevcairiel | not that its any fun |
| 00:53.53 | TheDanW | doesn't sound very fun |
| 00:54.09 | nevcairiel | or just screw it and let people update their addons, spreading the pain =p |
| 00:54.34 | Funkeh` | neither does writing a map addon from scratch but that's what we've got you for dan |
| 00:54.59 | nevcairiel | the only sad part is about addons that store user-generated data, like note pins on the map, cant really migrate those then, so they go missing |
| 00:58.14 | TheDanW | since existing maps will have the same normalized coords in both systems they could be migrated if you had the manual mapping |
| 00:58.35 | TheDanW | it's possible we might be able to generate something to help, i'll look into it |
| 01:00.19 | nevcairiel | yeah if I had a table that goes mapAreaID -> UIMapID, then it could be migrated, but as said above its no fun to manually create something like that, i'm sure a lot of people would appreciate anything you can do, and otherwise .. i'm sure we'll survive |
| 01:06.27 | TheDanW | also spell async changes will be appearing soon, we decided to leave most spell data synchronous, the fields that are async are subtext, description and aura description |
| 01:07.07 | TheDanW | i think it'll have minimal effect on addons in general |
| 01:07.10 | Funkeh` | yeah I thought I said that previously, the string length for descriptions is huge and infrequently used |
| 01:07.24 | Funkeh` | doing it for the names would mean little gain for maximum pain |
| 01:07.38 | TheDanW | some the APIs will no longer return subtext, so some fixes at the callsites |
| 01:08.00 | Funkeh` | what is a subtext? |
| 01:08.19 | TheDanW | the field that displays ranks and a few other strings |
| 01:08.50 | Funkeh` | like "3 sec cast" ? |
| 01:08.52 | TheDanW | it was inconveniently located between name and icon in many APIs, so it was often left as _, now it's been removed |
| 01:09.07 | TheDanW | no, like the text "Rank 1" |
| 01:09.21 | Funkeh` | :s didn't know ranks were still in the game |
| 01:09.24 | TheDanW | iirc it is or was used on mage polymorphs |
| 01:09.44 | TheDanW | it's not used much these days |
| 01:10.05 | Funkeh` | so what does "2 sec cast" "20 yard range" "Instant" "20sec cooldown" count as |
| 01:10.17 | Funkeh` | basically all the white text prior to the description |
| 01:10.36 | TheDanW | those aren't sourced by text, so they're unchanged |
| 01:11.11 | Funkeh` | ah yeah, duh, that will be formatted in from data |
| 01:14.19 | Funkeh` | did you consider giving us a simple api that just return the spell name alone |
| 01:17.29 | Torhal | 8uujhbvgbnh----------=[gt HBHf |
| 01:17.29 | TheDanW | seems reasonable, but there's nothing for that currently, its still GetSpellInfo |
| 01:18.02 | Thunder_Child | Torhal's cats > Torhal. |
| 01:18.06 | Funkeh` | yeah, we have GetSpellTexture, GetSpellDescription, GetSpellName? Would make our lives complete |
| 01:18.19 | mischanix | pets Torhal's cat |
| 01:18.44 | Torhal | I wasn't even in this channel. Damn cat walked on my trackpad, selected it, then started walking all over the keyboard. |
| 01:18.56 | Thunder_Child | Sounds about right. |
| 01:22.41 | [TOM_RUS] | TheDanW: async spell info coming or scrapped? |
| 01:23.19 | Funkeh` | he said it's coming |
| 01:23.42 | [TOM_RUS] | oh i see |
| 01:26.14 | Funkeh` | omg TheDanW the "world state" stuff is going away? where do I buy you beer? |
| 01:27.57 | TheDanW | yeah, that's getting replaced by the "widget" system (yeah yeah i know the name isn't great, long story) - you'll have to buy Andy the beer though, he's been working on it |
| 01:28.22 | Funkeh` | i don't know what that it but there's no way it can be worse than having to code for that cancer |
| 01:28.42 | TheDanW | it's significantly better |
| 01:33.04 | Funkeh` | I will miss the delight of https://git.io/vxgp0 or https://git.io/vxgpP |
| 01:35.15 | nevcairiel | in before only UI changes, data API still inconsistent af |
| 01:35.16 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 01:35.38 | Funkeh` | the events are gone, so i'm hoping the api will be changing |
| 01:35.59 | TheDanW | replaced by the api in UIWidgetManagerDocumentation.lua |
| 01:36.40 | TheDanW | its a make-your-own-UI for encounter and quest designers, basically |
| 01:36.56 | nevcairiel | not sure thats a good thing |
| 01:36.56 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 01:37.03 | TheDanW | neither are we :) |
| 01:40.07 | Mr_Rabies | "okay so i made this ui widget that is just an emulation of the entirety of warcraft 3" |
| 01:40.22 | nevcairiel | would play |
| 01:40.30 | mischanix | "Hey remember all that memory you saved rewriting half the engine? We found a great way to use it all... widgets!" |
| 01:42.15 | Mr_Rabies | oh god these zul'drak quests for drakuru are a nightmare |
| 01:42.39 | nevcairiel | i loved zul'drak |
| 01:42.42 | Mr_Rabies | individually casting a spell on each geist to get them to harvest a crystal and waiting for them to take it to the building |
| 01:42.44 | Mr_Rabies | yeeeesh |
| 01:44.50 | Mr_Rabies | 20 second cooldown between quest item uses lol |
| 01:48.06 | Mr_Rabies | ive always skipped zul'drak and some of storm peaks |
| 01:50.56 | nimhfree | so something is wrong with alpha 26310 and/or its interactions with the server. my client (macOS) is always crashing either after the load screen progress bar is filled, or with a new character when I attempt to customize it. |
| 01:57.06 | Funkeh` | btw TheDanW why can't we can some kind of merged font with FRIZQT__ and FRIZQT___CYR ? It's annoying that there isn't a default font that works for a situation that is common for EU players, so you can display both russian and latin names in one string. |
| 01:59.53 | TheDanW | i'm not sure why it's that way, that predates me |
| 02:01.52 | Funkeh` | i have a feeling there will never be a resolution because it's not a US issue |
| 02:11.44 | nimhfree | are the fonts not totally unicode encompassing? |
| 02:12.14 | Funkeh` | they are, to my knowledge, the original game fonts. very old |
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| 03:25.19 | [TOM_RUS] | some years ago I actually took those blizz fonts, downloaded some software and merged them together |
| 03:25.28 | [TOM_RUS] | not sure why blizz can't do the same |
| 03:27.56 | [TOM_RUS] | what I did was basically opening non cyr font and copy/pasting cyr characters into it from cyr font) |
| 03:37.46 | Mr_Rabies | man that reminds me of the time i ripped a commercial font from a pdf sampler with the font on it and had to recreate the actual font index from scratch - just to match the font Metal Gear Solid V uses on its menus for a silly photoshop |
| 03:38.12 | Mr_Rabies | by the time i was done i felt like a wizard, even though it was the dumbest thing ever |
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| 05:35.43 | Simca_ | yeah UIWidgetStringSource.db2 contains strings for like... pvp towers, weird boss fights, invasions, all sorts of stuff |
| 05:36.34 | Simca_ | also minor nitpick TheDanW but whoever named those DB2 files is not cool. 'UiWidgetStringSource' - UI is an abbreviation! you can't lowercase it like that! |
| 05:43.59 | TheDanW | renaming to uIwidgetStringSource |
| 05:44.47 | Simca_ | the worst |
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| 09:24.36 | Resike | TheDanW: Reinstalled the game, increased my sound channels to 128 but i was still be able to run into sound cutoffs last week in Temple of Kotmogu (don't ask why only there). I can give you more info about my sound settings if needed. |
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| 10:14.07 | phyber | Resike: heh, I wonder if that's the same sound clipping that both my partner and I get. Mostly in raid situations, the ilvl 930 bosses on Argus are great for triggering it. Think I've had it in PFR too. |
| 10:15.30 | phyber | s/PFR/LFR/ |
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| 10:19.49 | Simca_ | also I like how despite lowercasing 'UI' everywhere, they consistently capitalize 'POI' (i.e. 'QuestPOIBlob') |
| 10:20.15 | Simca_ | my OCD is having kittens over this |
| 10:34.52 | nevcairiel | PoI? |
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| 10:45.00 | Gnarfoz | pOi |
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| 11:01.56 | Simca_ | nevcairiel: http://www.mediafire.com/file/g32s5o7r872h294/BFA_MapData_OldVsNew.zip free stuff |
| 11:01.58 | nebula | ID or Id, that's the real question |
| 11:02.48 | Simca_ | as one word, blizzard tends towards 'ID', but as a compound word like 'QuestPOIBlobId' they tend towards 'Id' |
| 11:02.59 | Simca_ | i ignore their names in those cases and always capitalize |
| 11:04.02 | nevcairiel | i like how all those magic maps are just being made normal maps now |
| 11:04.06 | nevcairiel | like cosmic, azeroth etc |
| 11:04.13 | nevcairiel | so many hacks that can possibly go away |
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| 11:42.13 | foxlit | glances at the calendar |
| 11:42.41 | foxlit | Suppose I wanted to make some addon features work only on a specific day of the year. |
| 11:43.36 | nebula | lol |
| 11:43.59 | foxlit | (and avoid someone easily patching them to work always after that day) |
| 11:45.55 | foxlit | I wonder what the least evil way of achieving that is. |
| 11:46.53 | nebula | this year you're going with least evil, eh |
| 11:47.27 | foxlit | positively benign! |
| 11:51.23 | Simca_ | avoiding people easily patching them to work properly is easy |
| 11:51.33 | Simca_ | just code like you normally do, nobody will be able to figure out what any of it means |
| 11:51.37 | Simca_ | :) |
| 11:53.08 | foxlit | cute, but utterly foiled by function GetDate() return "Magic" end |
| 11:54.02 | Simca_ | i mean at the end of the day if somebody truly cares they'll figure it out. i assume these 'features' aren't world-breaking enough somebody would care enough though. |
| 11:54.14 | Simca_ | so why even bother |
| 12:00.32 | nebula | because it's fun |
| 12:00.56 | nebula | duh |
| 12:01.04 | [TOM_RUS] | encrypt function name? so ppl don't see it as plain text? |
| 12:01.54 | foxlit | the assumption is a bit silly |
| 12:03.23 | foxlit | (and so is the subsequent argument, you don't use "password" everywhere just because if Mossad cares enough, they'll do Mossad things to your email account) |
| 12:04.54 | foxlit | but yeah, "because it seems fun" is the main reason. |
| 12:06.18 | foxlit | [TOM_RUS]: slightly better, but there are only a few date sources in the API, so masking which one you access doesn't do much. |
| 12:06.27 | nevcairiel | if you want to avoid people overwriting the date/time functions, you're probably going to be thinking quite outside the box |
| 12:13.18 | foxlit | Something like sharing a decryption key through comms on the day might be an idea |
| 12:14.44 | foxlit | seeding it would be annoying, but then at least if you didn't capture it on the day, you're out of luck. |
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| 12:16.04 | AcidWeb | Execute world-wide malware infection and install additional addon at target date. |
| 12:16.23 | Gnarfoz | the simple approach, I like it |
| 12:17.10 | foxlit | on the other hand, could rely on random effort of a larger number of running instances to produce it on the day, but I'm not sure if the parallel work factor would be sufficient to avoid you just brute-forcing it alone later. |
| 12:18.13 | Andols | nevcairiel: You mean like https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/ptr/WorldMapFrame.lua#1338? |
| 12:19.57 | ThiefMaster | don't the WoW addon guidelines actually mention that addon code must not be obfuscated etc? ;) |
| 12:21.24 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 12:21.41 | nebula | they just guidelines |
| 12:31.09 | foxlit | ideally, you'd want to avoid running arbitrary decrypted code (as the user has no way of verifying if that vendors all their legendaries and sends the gold to nebula), but that I think is solvable |
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| 12:56.07 | Mr_Rabies | easy, just have a popup "hello is is april 1" "ok" "no" no one would lie on the internet |
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| 15:05.20 | Semlar | foxlit: is it an arbitrary date or something you could infer from a different api |
| 15:06.27 | nevcairiel | april first, obviously |
| 15:06.54 | Semlar | is there a calendar event? |
| 15:09.03 | Semlar | doesn't look like it |
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| 15:39.28 | Funkeh` | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/476291819/the-world-of-warcraft-diary |
| 15:46.43 | Thunder_Child | If blizz ends up selling a boxed set of vanilla it would be nifty to add that book in to the CE edition. |
| 15:47.09 | Thunder_Child | s/CE/collectors/ |
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| 15:58.30 | nebula | why does he need a kickstarter for a book? make it and get a publisher to publish it |
| 15:59.14 | Thunder_Child | Maybe part of the licensing deal with blizz? |
| 15:59.34 | Simca_ | he explains that somewhat. he's already written it, just printing it is too expensive. doesn't say why he isn't using a publisher. |
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| 16:05.05 | foxlit | Or getting amazon to print it on demand |
| 16:05.19 | foxlit | spoiler: marketing |
| 16:09.09 | foxlit | Semlar: arbitrary date; there aren't really any conveniant API returns that would vanish past the date. |
| 16:10.42 | Torhal | [05:20:15] Simca_:my OCD is having kittens over this <-- Do. Not. Want. I already have too many cats, and the day before we were scheduled to have our rescue spayed my GF had to go to the ER. Two days later, she went into heat. We're expecting more. |
| 16:10.47 | Torhal | No. More. Kittens. |
| 16:11.08 | Torhal | My GF didn't go into heat, to be clear. |
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| 16:11.32 | Simca_ | that would be odd |
| 16:11.59 | Torhal | ... |
| 16:12.30 | Stanzilla | Torhal: your kitten strategy seems to be flawed |
| 16:12.36 | Stanzilla | maybe get your gf fixed or so |
| 16:14.01 | Torhal | Stanzilla: You know, I'm starting to think all of my problems boil down to never having installed WeakAuras. |
| 16:14.08 | Torhal | That could have saved me. |
| 16:14.12 | Stanzilla | indeed |
| 16:14.28 | Stanzilla | could have set one up to dismiss newly added kittens when total is over 6 or so |
| 16:14.52 | Semlar | it all comes down to proper raid prep |
| 16:15.09 | Torhal | *** SEX DRIVE ACTIVATED *** |
| 16:15.44 | Stanzilla | a good WeakAura could also have spayed them when added to inventory |
| 16:15.46 | Stanzilla | so you know |
| 16:15.48 | Stanzilla | fix your shit |
| 16:16.26 | Torhal | *** STANZILLA RAGE IN 0.00035 MILLISECONDS *** |
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| 16:23.34 | Stanzilla | =) |
| 16:29.04 | Semlar | foxlit: you're pretty much at the mercy of their system clock which is easily changed, unless you try to use the server time, which is pretty annoying to deal with |
| 16:31.14 | Semlar | although depending on what you do with this, it would be pretty impractical for someone to leave their clock set to the wrong time |
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| 17:06.44 | foxlit | Semlar: I think there is a function that returns utc time without using the client's local clock |
| 17:08.06 | Semlar | there wasn't one when i needed a reliable timestamp a few years ago but they might have added one |
| 17:08.38 | foxlit | (the problem is that this should be resilient to you editing the addon code to bypass any "if isItTgeRightTime() then check) |
| 17:09.23 | Semlar | at best you can obfuscate what you're doing |
| 17:09.46 | Semlar | so you're just looking for whatever the best approach to that is |
| 17:11.24 | Semlar | you can still use loadstring right? |
| 17:12.44 | Semlar | run the code through some reversible cipher |
| 17:13.30 | foxlit | And do what with the key? |
| 17:14.02 | Semlar | you're not looking for an infallible solution |
| 17:14.19 | Semlar | someone who knows what they're doing is going to be able to reverse whatever you do |
| 17:15.03 | Semlar | you just need to decide what an acceptable level of difficulty is |
| 17:15.34 | foxlit | foxlit: Something like sharing a decryption key through comms on the day might be an idea |
| 17:15.53 | Semlar | how practical of a solution is that |
| 17:16.31 | foxlit | foxlit: seeding it would be annoying, but then at least if you didn't capture it on the day, you're out of luck << should be in your scrollback ;) |
| 17:17.15 | Semlar | sure, but do you just not care if not everyone runs whatever it is you want them to run |
| 17:17.35 | Gnarfoz | wasn't NameCrate complicated enough? :D |
| 17:17.53 | foxlit | yeah, that's fine |
| 17:18.43 | TheDanW | i'll be adding a Lua file with commented out translations from worldAreaMapID -> uiMapID, we aren't going to load it but it should give addons the data necessary to migrate |
| 17:18.44 | Semlar | is this potentially abusable |
| 17:19.38 | Semlar | elvui caused some people to get a little upset over the fact that they had code in their addon that let them run arbitrary lua through the comm system |
| 17:21.46 | nebula | he's not running arbitrary code, though, he's running the same code for everyone! |
| 17:21.48 | Semlar | now if the code you're running is already going to be using addon comms to do something then i suppose it would make sense to use them to distribute a key |
| 17:22.03 | nevcairiel | TheDanW: nice |
| 17:22.48 | Semlar | like oh say, randomly issuing the follow command to anyone nearby since that's not a protected function for some reason |
| 17:24.52 | foxlit | You could do this without loadstring |
| 17:25.11 | foxlit | Just break the code into a million functions, shuffle them, and encode the correct order to run them in. |
| 17:25.29 | Semlar | i didn't say you needed loadstring, just that it would make it easier to obfuscate the code |
| 17:27.38 | foxlit | the point was more that you could prove that your code wouldn't randomly call FollowUnit without revealing something you could actually run |
| 17:29.02 | foxlit | (which would be difficult when going the decrypt blob -> loadstring -> run it route) |
| 17:29.09 | Gnarfoz | map all API functions under the sun to single/double letter variables and jumble those |
| 17:29.28 | Gnarfoz | good luck Joe Random figuring out which ones you actually call |
| 17:29.45 | Gnarfoz | (sounds like spam) |
| 17:29.46 | Semlar | that's just how he normally writes his code |
| 17:30.07 | Gnarfoz | I don't think he typically includes arbitrary functions in that that he doesn't actually call |
| 17:30.24 | Semlar | alright i have an idea |
| 17:30.28 | nebula | upvalue ALL THE THINGS |
| 17:30.36 | Semlar | what if you just split your code into several dozen xml files |
| 17:31.20 | Semlar | nobody would think to look there |
| 17:32.45 | Semlar | out of curiosity, does the file extension matter when you're loading things in the toc? |
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| 17:33.43 | nebula | probably |
| 17:35.32 | Semlar | i wonder how many times someone has asked whether GnomeSequencer is against the ToS |
| 17:35.44 | Semlar | i feel kind of bad for writing it |
| 17:37.10 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.54 | Semlar | if you're going to use macro software to spam a key on your keyboard, couldn't you just make it spam multiple keys and just not use the addon in the first place |
| 17:40.30 | foxlit | it's np, they'll break it for BfA |
| 17:40.51 | Semlar | oh yeah? what are they changing |
| 17:41.48 | foxlit | Game data, not the UI |
| 17:43.17 | Gnarfoz | Semlar: obviously full-programmable, or macro keyboards can play the game for you; and doing so is against the ToS |
| 17:46.13 | Semlar | the addon itself doesn't do much, but people are using it in conjunction with software that automates keypresses |
| 17:46.47 | foxlit | seems redundant |
| 17:46.52 | Semlar | it does |
| 17:47.25 | Semlar | but that's how it goes |
| 17:47.57 | foxlit | hope putting all thr burst on GCD sticks |
| 17:49.20 | Semlar | maybe we can cut back on having 2 dozen different abilities to keep track of |
| 17:50.45 | Gnarfoz | 2 dozen? are you playing 3 characters at once or something |
| 17:50.53 | Semlar | just a hunter |
| 17:51.28 | nevcairiel | you need to use hyperbole in your arguments, or the entire argument falls apart, didnt you know |
| 17:52.03 | Semlar | i usually have my main action bar, the action bar above it, the action bar to the right of that and one of the action bars on the side of the screen with abilities |
| 17:52.11 | Semlar | i'm not sure how you guys play |
| 17:52.34 | nebula | with a lot less mushrooms |
| 17:52.40 | foxlit | You always had like 6 buttons that you press often, and like another 6 that you press sometimes |
| 17:53.15 | nevcairiel | i'm sure he like split all of his call pet buttons into individual buttons, and the traps you never use, and whatnot |
| 17:53.26 | Semlar | what do you mean never use |
| 17:53.36 | nevcairiel | buttons that you dont use in combat are not buttons you need to track =p |
| 17:54.09 | foxlit | People with too many action bare have a button for their hearthstone on screen at all times |
| 17:54.54 | nevcairiel | i have that, sort of, the action bar with ports and mounts goes to like 20% opacity when i dont use it, but its tiny and squared away in some space that is not annoying |
| 17:56.12 | Semlar | i played a druid tank in BC specifically because the only buttons i needed were maul, swipe and taunt, and i could actually pay attention to what was going on around me |
| 17:56.34 | nevcairiel | you sound like a pretty bad player |
| 17:57.36 | Semlar | you want to compare dps sizes cuz i'm p sure i'd win |
| 17:57.51 | foxlit | can't remember the BC bear kit. Lacerate? |
| 17:57.55 | nevcairiel | your default rotation should just be instinctive, so you actually can pay attention to the things around you and use the other 5 or so buttons to react to the happenings of the world |
| 17:57.59 | Semlar | lacerate was later |
| 17:58.22 | Semlar | i think there was an aoe aunt and barkskin although i think you had to shift out to actually cast it |
| 17:58.54 | Semlar | i'm not kidding when i say swipe was almost the only button i ever had to push |
| 17:58.58 | nevcairiel | i dont think i bear tanked in BC |
| 17:59.06 | Semlar | it was glorious |
| 17:59.51 | Stanzilla | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3YfMa7YmTU&t=9s |
| 17:59.55 | Semlar | when i tanked on my warrior it was incredibly hectic trying to pick up groups because cleave hit like 2 targets and thunderclap was capped at 4 or something |
| 18:00.01 | Stanzilla | there you go, bc druid tank |
| 18:00.09 | nevcairiel | i loved tanking on my warrior in BC |
| 18:00.15 | nevcairiel | you actually had shit to do and work for your glory |
| 18:00.27 | nevcairiel | now its just hit one button and go afk if you want to |
| 18:00.40 | Semlar | huh lacerate is on there, maybe i just never used it |
| 18:00.54 | nevcairiel | on bosses you had to use it or you would drop aggro |
| 18:01.04 | Semlar | nah i outdamaged actual dps |
| 18:01.10 | Semlar | i don't know how you could lose threat |
| 18:01.18 | nevcairiel | in raids, easy |
| 18:01.29 | nevcairiel | because you actually had DPS that did damage |
| 18:01.32 | nevcairiel | well in good raids |
| 18:01.38 | Semlar | oh man i forgot about the demoralizing shout thing |
| 18:01.39 | foxlit | ^ |
| 18:01.54 | foxlit | BC was still threat meter land through BT |
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| 18:02.09 | nevcairiel | i think they got rid of that in wotlk |
| 18:02.22 | Semlar | no, i know that threat generation actually required doing something, but i still don't know how tanks ever lost threat to anyone |
| 18:02.22 | nevcairiel | which is incindentally when they introduced built-in threat meters |
| 18:02.42 | nevcairiel | it was primarily a problem when hunters forgot to FD |
| 18:02.58 | Semlar | i almost exclusively tanked through BC and wrath |
| 18:03.21 | Semlar | it was fun shifting out to innervate or brez someone in between boss swings |
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| 18:04.35 | Semlar | tanking now is more about managing active mitigation and i'm not a big fan of it |
| 18:05.10 | nevcairiel | its ok, i just wish threat was still a challenge tho |
| 18:06.03 | Constie | BfA has a threat enchant on gloves, right? Seems to imply that it's going to be a thing again. |
| 18:06.09 | foxlit | it's great; Skittlish can go die in a fire. |
| 18:07.15 | foxlit | (AM and positioning should provide you with enough active gameplay when encounter design is decent) |
| 18:08.16 | Semlar | i just don't like having to focus on much of a rotation when i'm tanking, i'd rather have my full attention on what's going on around me |
| 18:09.06 | Semlar | i guess if you're tanking a raid boss where you're just standing there twiddling your thumbs it could get boring if you didn't have something to focus on |
| 18:09.42 | Semlar | i was usually trying to see how quickly i could pull an entire dungeon without wiping the whole group |
| 18:12.34 | Semlar | sadly i don't think i have any recordings of how i used to tank |
| 18:12.44 | Semlar | that was in the dark ages |
| 18:14.20 | Semlar | oh i found something from 4.0.1 |
| 18:14.30 | Semlar | it's in 240p and 300% speed |
| 18:14.48 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.15 | Semlar | you can almost make out that it's warcraft |
| 18:17.38 | nebula | i refuse to believe you've ever been anything but a panda |
| 18:18.53 | Semlar | well my hard drives from that time period are all dead so there isn't much contradictory evidence |
| 18:21.09 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:21.58 | Stanzilla | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4UTPjP1xzE&t=41s |
| 18:22.29 | Semlar | did you record this on a flipbook |
| 18:22.45 | Stanzilla | you can see the fps at the top |
| 18:23.05 | Shockah | actually you can't |
| 18:23.08 | Shockah | because it's so pixely |
| 18:23.15 | Stanzilla | it's 2-5 |
| 18:23.56 | Semlar | frames were a scarce commodity in those days |
| 18:24.03 | Semlar | we had to ration them |
| 18:24.20 | Stanzilla | 40 player raids were a bit taxing on the hardware |
| 18:24.51 | Semlar | the only 40 man raid i did was AQ, and it was on my resto shaman |
| 18:25.17 | Semlar | and if that was any indication of vanilla raiding in general, raiding sucked |
| 18:25.46 | Semlar | wait a minute, i remember doing nax |
| 18:25.57 | Semlar | they must have brought it back at some point |
| 18:26.07 | Stanzilla | here is some BC warrior tanking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4un89BGoLU&list=PLKEYjc5_Mt6h9w1phOrADeW3XY5HQeBfC&index=2 |
| 18:26.31 | Semlar | that must have been wrath |
| 18:28.12 | Semlar | the problem with any of the recordings i did make i couldn't really upload to youtube because it took so long |
| 18:28.46 | Semlar | i didn't have any bandwidth |
| 18:31.15 | Semlar | which is why that one clip is in 240p and sped up |
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| 20:09.26 | Resike | bc aoe tanking as a warrior was easy just nobody went for the right talents |
| 20:11.10 | Resike | hc strike did extra threat and extra damage on dazed targets, piercing howl dazed targets, then you just hcstrike every target once and boom holding everything as a protpaladin |
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| 22:17.39 | VIad | Stanzilla: you can tell it's BC because of the low fps and all the UI elements to cover up your screen |
| 22:24.19 | Thunder_Child | I'm pretty sure you can find people playing like that now. |
| 22:24.31 | VIad | that makes me sad |
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| 22:27.27 | VIad | btw bfa "bug" persists, soul fragments spawning on the seafloor instead in reach of the DH >_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi1PFHZLpRY |
| 22:28.10 | VIad | made me sad when I saw that, had forgotten about it since I stopped doing any legion quests in water but bfa alpha gave me PTSD flashbacks |
| 22:45.09 | VIad | foxlit: skittish xD |
| 22:45.21 | VIad | are you tanking it or? |
| 22:46.12 | Gnarfoz | [20:14:46] <Semlar> https://youtu.be/tGhAVK4sJGg perfect <-- needs more mpeg |
| 22:47.14 | VIad | it's glorious to play on 2k monitor fullscreen |
| 22:48.40 | Semlar | this is just what life was like back in 4.0 |
| 22:49.07 | VIad | 300x240 at 30fps :D |
| 22:49.28 | Gnarfoz | people also wore nothing but black white and gray clothing before 1920 |
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