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| 01:20.58 | *** topic/#wowuidev is Happy Holidays! || 7.3.x ToC: 70300 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 05:48.06 | plaw | damnit where's cairren when you want to show her cute http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/penguin-being-treated-at-bonorong/9350338 |
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| 09:22.33 | nevcairiel | why did i not get a new emissary quest today |
| 09:23.00 | Varyak | racism |
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| 10:33.53 | Gnarfoz | Fixed framerate and client performance issues on mid- and lower-capacity hardware, especially when coupled with the use of certain addons. -- hmmm yeah, guess we'll see tonight :D |
| 10:36.26 | VIad | I still experienced lack of sounds or sounds being cut off |
| 10:36.30 | VIad | weird audio issues I guess ^^ |
| 10:37.01 | VIad | dunno if its relevant but we did a normal achievement run and all crashed except 2 people when we used heroism :D |
| 10:46.58 | Varyak | Would love to know what Blizz defines as High end hardware then |
| 10:47.44 | AcidWeb | Everything that reach 30fps in suramar on ultra ]:-> |
| 10:53.16 | VIad | hah! 30 fps! |
| 10:53.24 | VIad | 29.9 good sir |
| 10:53.39 | [TOM_RUS] | they haven't fixed performance issues fucking liars |
| 10:53.57 | VIad | I think it's just less noticable, but I agree still some issues from the patch remain :P |
| 10:55.30 | Gnarfoz | VIad: 30000/1001 fps should be enough for anyone |
| 10:55.48 | Gnarfoz | I wonder which "certain addons" those are supposed to be |
| 11:04.03 | Varyak | they misspelled "every" |
| 11:09.08 | Maldivia | my screen doesn't stutter anymore at least |
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| 11:30.54 | VIad | I wonder what was changed in the engine to introduce all these issues :) |
| 11:31.07 | VIad | and for what reason were the things changed if it was a downgrade to begin with :P |
| 11:33.13 | *** join/#wowuidev StephenLynx (~Stephen@186-244-245-87.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 11:33.46 | VIad | haven't we been in a period where team B is just maintaining the game while team A are working on the next expansion? I dunno if team B can realistically do much alterations to the client at this stage in terms of improvements or engine changes. |
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| 11:41.05 | VIad | I just wonder like, at what time one can expect engine optimizations, I assumed once the expansion is live they might keep doing some until X.1 but the most changes planned are done, and next time any overhauls or improvements would have to wait to the next expansion dev cycle |
| 11:43.17 | Gnarfoz | the only way you'll find out such minutiae is by getting a job there ;) |
| 11:43.34 | nevcairiel | "engine" in your mind is a way too broad term apparently anyway |
| 11:43.49 | VIad | yes |
| 11:43.53 | nevcairiel | if the rumros of what went wrong can be trusted it had nothing to do with the graphics engine |
| 11:44.07 | VIad | rumor being audio related? |
| 11:44.14 | nevcairiel | no, not at all |
| 11:44.22 | VIad | addon env related? |
| 11:44.33 | VIad | bit odd since addon-less people also struggled |
| 11:45.45 | nevcairiel | not addon related either, although some addons could apparently worsen the effect a bit |
| 11:46.49 | VIad | I wonder if whatever was changed that broke this, was at least worth it :P |
| 11:46.59 | Varyak | there was allegedly some database fuckery to optimize the size and stuff |
| 11:47.56 | VIad | let's optimize disk space even further but never actually code in better hardware utilization :x |
| 11:48.09 | VIad | just keep the limits the same and try squeeze in more and more with what we got |
| 11:48.47 | Constie | I have a tiny SSD and haven't had any sound or FPS issues since the patch, so it seems like a success story to me. |
| 11:49.11 | VIad | SSD here too, still had some issues |
| 11:49.23 | nevcairiel | they increase the limits with expansions if they need to, like the rumors of dropping 32-bit entirely, which would help to alleviate the focus on a lot of the memory savings |
| 11:49.50 | VIad | 16 gb bring it on |
| 11:50.08 | VIad | I won't mind a client build targeting high end systems |
| 11:50.25 | VIad | with more experimental and scalable solutions to utilize hardware more or whatev |
| 11:52.22 | Varyak | would love to know how "modern" the engine and everything is |
| 11:52.49 | Varyak | the base is ancient as fuck as we know, but they keep improving it. how big would the difference be if they would start over |
| 11:53.05 | Varyak | (obviously assuming it wouldn't take years) |
| 11:53.30 | Gnarfoz | but it would, unless they'd put in enough backwards compatibility to make it a pointless endeavor |
| 11:53.38 | VIad | with dx12 game devs can better utilize gpu like cores available and such |
| 11:53.58 | VIad | hopefully they can better utilize gpu like that, sli, more gpu nodes, split up the work or whatev |
| 11:53.59 | Gnarfoz | blah blah dx12 is our savior, vulkan this, vulkan that |
| 11:54.23 | VIad | looks like a good window to change how the engine works with dx12 around the corner :p |
| 11:54.24 | Gnarfoz | so far, how many games get a significant (!) benefit out of that? |
| 11:54.29 | Varyak | 0 |
| 11:54.36 | Gnarfoz | dx12 isn't around the corner, it's behind the last corner |
| 11:54.45 | nevcairiel | only if you use AMD hardware, because their DX11 driver is crap |
| 11:54.57 | VIad | cant see blizz willing to change much atm since stuff work kind of okay :P |
| 11:55.06 | Gnarfoz | sad state of affairs, of course, but that's where we are |
| 11:55.32 | VIad | it's fun when people build machines with hardware specifically for wow :x |
| 11:55.43 | Gnarfoz | potato builders, inc.? |
| 11:55.49 | Varyak | there is hardware for wow? |
| 11:55.51 | VIad | gtx980 it's fine, you need that 4 core CPU 5ghz per core for wow |
| 11:55.59 | nevcairiel | its not like there is specific hardware that makes wow run faster |
| 11:56.08 | VIad | pointless getting cpu with more cores and less hz per core :P |
| 11:56.12 | Varyak | well i guess clockspeed/ipc is the way to go |
| 11:56.21 | nevcairiel | any gaming system should still focus single core clocks even today, isntead of high core count |
| 11:56.40 | VIad | but intel keep making plans for high core counts in the newer cpus |
| 11:56.45 | VIad | same with amd |
| 11:56.49 | VIad | 32 cores 1.5 ghz each! |
| 11:56.52 | Gnarfoz | the reason for that being obvious |
| 11:57.03 | nevcairiel | as long as you got 4 cores or such, its fine, maybe 6 at most, barly any game scales beyond 4 cores |
| 11:57.04 | Gnarfoz | (you could replace "wow" with "games" in that sentence and end up with the same kind of system) |
| 11:57.11 | Varyak | I've got myself a ryzen and couldn't be happier, but I'm not only gaming on that computer |
| 11:57.22 | VIad | I only experience this bad performance in wow on my rig |
| 11:57.30 | VIad | playing everything else at max 100+ fps everywhere |
| 11:57.50 | Gnarfoz | as it has been for years, ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 11:58.02 | VIad | hence why I didn't say "games" and put "wow" earlier :x |
| 11:58.03 | Constie | You need some extra cores if you keep Wowhead open while you play. |
| 11:58.11 | VIad | heh |
| 11:58.23 | Gnarfoz | VIad: that's the point: what would you change in your system to get even more fps in wow? |
| 11:58.23 | Varyak | dont forget the netflix tab |
| 11:58.48 | VIad | ideally like 5 ghz and put wow cpu affinity to use those 4 cores or whatev |
| 11:58.55 | Gnarfoz | if you already have a gaming system which prioritizes ipc+clock speed over core count, where to go from there |
| 11:59.06 | VIad | since the game doesn't scale that well with more cores if the average speed is slower |
| 11:59.10 | Gnarfoz | manually setting cpu affinity just decreases your performance :p |
| 11:59.25 | VIad | don't remember the ideal core for wow atm |
| 11:59.34 | nevcairiel | like said above, basically all games scale more with ipc then core c ount, as long as you have 4 cores already |
| 11:59.54 | nevcairiel | so wow isnt any different there |
| 11:59.57 | nevcairiel | its just slower in general |
| 12:00.23 | Gnarfoz | the cpu scheduler is more than smart enough; the only edge case I could see is limiting wow to less cores than available in the hopes that the rest will go unused (tough luck) and you end up with higher turbo clock speeds |
| 12:00.26 | VIad | I dunno if they could code it so like, world rendering, non moving scenery could be managed by other gpu nodes and offload the cpu more |
| 12:00.51 | VIad | even if suramar has fancy graphics, still the gpu uses 1 of 42 cores on that :P |
| 12:01.13 | VIad | so probably something with how the engine works, still odd visuals would be cpu bound righto |
| 12:01.18 | nevcairiel | your gpu stats are probably faulty |
| 12:01.26 | VIad | works fine in other games |
| 12:01.35 | VIad | that utilize gpu better |
| 12:02.02 | Gnarfoz | nobody denies that; yet, your describing a GPU like a CPU seems out of place? they don't really work the same |
| 12:02.24 | VIad | ofc |
| 12:03.32 | Gnarfoz | Shashlik... or Maultauschen? |
| 12:03.47 | nevcairiel | the former |
| 12:03.55 | Gnarfoz | (Google Translate calls them ravioli... I disagree) |
| 12:04.25 | VIad | why does the fps drop dramatically in suramar though? :p |
| 12:04.38 | Gnarfoz | I bet by the time I get there, they're out of both and I'll have to make do with a schnitzel. :P what a terrible fate! |
| 12:04.58 | nevcairiel | looking at my cpu numbers while in wow is interesting though, one of my cores is at max speed only (in HWInfo), and the task manager show apparently some average clock between all cores, instead of the peak of the core :D |
| 12:05.03 | Gnarfoz | I haven't really noticed it doing that, I also don't stare at my FPS all the time |
| 12:05.11 | Gnarfoz | (i.e. I couldn't even say if it does) |
| 12:05.43 | Gnarfoz | yeah you need something a bit more sophisticated than taskmgr for that ;p |
| 12:06.04 | Gnarfoz | (it has gained a lot of ground in recent versions, though) |
| 12:06.30 | VIad | dunno how wow could utilize stuff like CUDA to offload the cpu work |
| 12:07.09 | VIad | at least if its visual realted stuff especially like the world that doesn't move like units |
| 12:07.12 | nevcairiel | some things I noticed about performance - 1) dont use ultra water, it eats performance like candy in certain areas for a tiny visual difference, 2) env detail/ground clutter 9 can help save loads of performance in contrast to 10 without a real visual impact |
| 12:08.02 | Gnarfoz | 3) set all view distance sliders to 1 in dungeons & raids |
| 12:08.20 | Gnarfoz | (you can use the separate instance graphic settings option for this) |
| 12:08.43 | VIad | make mechanics ignore user graphic preferences to avoid situations people die to invisible floor textures :D |
| 12:08.54 | Gnarfoz | that's not an option users have |
| 12:09.00 | Gnarfoz | I don't recommend decreasing particle density for this reason |
| 12:09.14 | nevcairiel | (or turning of projected textures) |
| 12:09.17 | Constie | SSAO usually makes a significant difference to my FPS, and it's one of the least visually noticeable things for me. |
| 12:09.37 | Gnarfoz | I find that very noticeable; however HBAO+ seems to barely have an FPS impact |
| 12:09.39 | VIad | presets 1-4 turn off projected textures :D |
| 12:09.46 | Gnarfoz | I said view distance, not preset ;) |
| 12:09.46 | VIad | and many play with those if they are on a potato |
| 12:09.58 | Varyak | and then die |
| 12:09.58 | VIad | and die horribly on bosses that project mechanics |
| 12:10.05 | VIad | "I dont know why I keep dying" |
| 12:10.08 | VIad | kicked out of the pug :P |
| 12:10.15 | VIad | quits game thinking they just suck at the game that bad |
| 12:10.17 | Gnarfoz | OTOH, I found that even without projected textures, lots of stuff is perfectly visible... particle density to lowest preset however... not so nice |
| 12:10.17 | nevcairiel | thats why any half-series guilds will ask you about your pc =p |
| 12:10.34 | VIad | particle density also screws stuff yes |
| 12:10.36 | Gnarfoz | cloudy void zones: invisible :D |
| 12:10.45 | nevcairiel | projected textures got less important in recent raids as the ground effects use more 3d effects instead of just flat textures |
| 12:10.53 | Gnarfoz | definitely |
| 12:11.24 | VIad | wtb engine that fallbacks mechanics if you have a potato and use low presets so its still visible yet keeps performance acceptable |
| 12:11.43 | VIad | particle density is crap if you turn it up, starts rendering the other players spells that you dont care about |
| 12:11.45 | Gnarfoz | but then users will cry "where did our options go?" :D |
| 12:11.47 | VIad | just so you can see boss mechanics |
| 12:11.56 | Gnarfoz | I don't think it does that at all |
| 12:11.58 | nevcairiel | and re: SSAO, i also dont notice a huge performance impact with HBAO+, but its an nvidia algorithm so maybe the impact is huge on amd hardware? is it even available there? |
| 12:12.06 | Gnarfoz | ^ same Q |
| 12:12.07 | VIad | if you set particle density to lowest it should be smart to render the boss spells still |
| 12:12.23 | StephenLynx | make npc particles a separate setting |
| 12:12.24 | nevcairiel | but I also find it quite noticeable, it takes the flat look out of the world |
| 12:12.33 | Maldivia | VIad: "Why are you standing in fire???"... "what fire?" |
| 12:12.51 | VIad | I like ssao, adds nice shadow effects around so it looks nicer and less flat |
| 12:12.51 | Gnarfoz | is the "don't show spells from others that could be annoying" actually an option? I thought that was always-on. The only things from others you should see are CC-things |
| 12:13.02 | VIad | for me ssao alone dont have too much impact on my system |
| 12:13.22 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: its always on but its not "dont show", but just less |
| 12:13.32 | Gnarfoz | which is a bit annoying because sometimes I move enemies out of other people's AoE effects, just because the game doesn't show them to me |
| 12:13.42 | VIad | meteor is invisible :D |
| 12:13.47 | nevcairiel | you still see single target nukes etc |
| 12:13.48 | Gnarfoz | but it is at all settings |
| 12:13.55 | Gnarfoz | stampede as well, for example |
| 12:14.02 | VIad | many spells are not visible for others making it fun to do m+ :D |
| 12:14.07 | VIad | "why you moved the mobs out of my aoe?" |
| 12:14.08 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: yeah it's just the cluttery spells |
| 12:14.12 | Constie | I wish it were lesserer. The blue ground swirls on Argus get really hard to see because of friendly caster effects sometimes. |
| 12:14.23 | Gnarfoz | VIad: yeah, that's exactly the problem I have |
| 12:14.28 | VIad | argus was designed to kill potato users :D |
| 12:14.32 | VIad | with all those swirly effects |
| 12:14.41 | VIad | eitherby having them stand in it, or 5 fps |
| 12:14.46 | VIad | pick your poison |
| 12:15.01 | Gnarfoz | weird, I can't really say I've had issues with player effects obscuring boss effects |
| 12:15.21 | VIad | if you set particle density to lowest and turn off projected textures |
| 12:15.32 | VIad | you should have a split between player vs boss mechanics :D |
| 12:15.45 | VIad | but still, argus spawns like 100 swirly crap all over the place |
| 12:15.52 | VIad | ought to suck to be on a potato |
| 12:15.58 | VIad | and if you turn it off it starts killing you :d |
| 12:16.18 | Gnarfoz | I guess I could make a comparison recording |
| 12:16.25 | VIad | should just show some very basic overlays on the floor for potato presets |
| 12:16.30 | VIad | for mechanics from bosses that is |
| 12:16.31 | Gnarfoz | if the FPS issues do indeed persist, we'll have some wipes there tonight :p |
| 12:16.43 | VIad | was fine yesterday in lfr for me |
| 12:17.16 | Gnarfoz | (got stuck at Coven last raid because 2/3 healers had 5-10 fps and several others were either killing themselves or others because of shit fps :D) |
| 12:18.01 | VIad | read hotfix notes 22. |
| 12:18.03 | VIad | "Attumen should once again properly respect tank threat for his Mounted Strike and Stamp attacks while astride Midnight." |
| 12:18.08 | VIad | that's been a issue since for ages :d |
| 12:18.33 | nevcairiel | its interesting that standing in suramar i can basically enable 200% render scale without a drop in fps |
| 12:18.40 | nevcairiel | 1080Ti power! |
| 12:19.04 | VIad | I dont see a difference setting render scale higher, but looks like total shit if I set it lower :D |
| 12:19.12 | VIad | set it to 50% for fun |
| 12:19.27 | VIad | looks like what minecraft 2 should look like |
| 12:19.59 | nevcairiel | definitely see the gpu usage go up though |
| 12:20.04 | VIad | oh yeah |
| 12:20.07 | nevcairiel | msaa 8x + 200% caps it at 100% now |
| 12:20.20 | VIad | you play on 2k? |
| 12:20.33 | VIad | is AA even needed on 4k screens? |
| 12:20.51 | nevcairiel | i play on 1440p, and yes it is |
| 12:21.07 | nevcairiel | its a myth that higher resolution screens resolve that magically |
| 12:22.03 | VIad | I guess if you got a physically small screen running 4k you wont have to :d |
| 12:22.07 | VIad | I dunno |
| 12:22.10 | VIad | just curious |
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| 12:47.18 | Varyak | yeah just stream it to one of those 4k phones, should be okay then |
| 12:50.42 | Simca_ | yeah VIad that Attumen hotfix is weird |
| 12:50.52 | Simca_ | that threat bug has existed literally since 7.2 |
| 12:51.12 | Simca_ | but they didn't announce a fix for him evading and despawning when he walks through walls |
| 12:51.16 | Simca_ | which is a slightly larger issue. |
| 12:54.43 | VIad | Varyak: AA would be the least of the issues if you have such small screen xD |
| 12:55.01 | Varyak | well everything has drawbacks! |
| 12:55.09 | VIad | Simca_: at least its fixed, was annoying having people get oneshot on +20 tyrannical weeks :p |
| 12:55.12 | Varyak | at least everything is crispy |
| 12:55.23 | Simca_ | yeah it was |
| 12:55.29 | VIad | Varyak: also set rendering scale to 50% for the legit minecraft experience |
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| 15:13.56 | VIad | hmm, might need to buy like a hub box deal, so I can swap my monitor to my switch over hdmi, this monitor has only DP |
| 15:42.44 | Varyak | Just mod your switch to have DP |
| 15:56.46 | Gnarfoz | why would you want to use the inferior connection? |
| 15:57.19 | Gnarfoz | ("no DP on your GPU" is the only (slightly weird) reason I can think of) |
| 16:05.54 | VIad | monitor has only 1 DP so if I wanna hook up my switch I'd need an adapter and swap cables, or a hub like thing with a button xD |
| 16:16.41 | Gnarfoz | that... doesn't explain anything |
| 16:25.20 | Funkeh` | TheDanW: can you clarify if the sound changes are intentional or not |
| 16:32.50 | *** join/#wowuidev vince` (vschiu@50.35.70.27) |
| 16:36.25 | nevcairiel | he already said so before |
| 16:38.09 | Funkeh` | he also said there was nothing we could do, which was incorrect |
| 16:38.30 | Funkeh` | so I'd rather he clarify now there's been more time that maybe whoever was responsible for it said "no we want it like this" |
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| 16:59.33 | Gnarfoz | DIALOG > SFX, I could see as an intentional change, both of those > MASTER... not so much |
| 16:59.35 | Gnarfoz | :| |
| 17:48.40 | VIad | Gnarfoz: the monitor I bought has 1 displayport port and if I wanna connect my switch that uses hdmi I need some adapter - understand? :D |
| 17:49.07 | VIad | current one has DP+HDMI+DVI so I can just push a button to swap around on the monitor, the new only has DP so nothing to swap between on it :p |
| 17:50.24 | VIad | anyway I am worried about the sound issue, I hope they didn't add some software cap on amount of sounds we can play... sounds lame |
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| 18:16.34 | Gnarfoz | does SetCVar("Sound_NumChannels", 128) actually help against the sound problems? |
| 18:16.39 | Gnarfoz | or is that out of bounds for fmod |
| 18:18.16 | nevcairiel | 128 supposedly is the maximum, but i dont think people have had success with that |
| 18:23.42 | Gnarfoz | https://hastebin.com/dehicitite.coffeescript well |
| 18:24.00 | nevcairiel | at least it takes it |
| 18:33.03 | nevcairiel | Kaelten: is everything supposed to be working again after the move? making builds seems to be failing |
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| 20:43.42 | Torhal | nevcairiel: They're looking at it. Started happening sporadically about 4 hours ago. |
| 20:47.57 | nevcairiel | Torhal: also a funny side-effect, the first build failed, then the second attempt claimed the commit was already handled and then flagged the overall build as a success =P |
| 20:48.28 | Torhal | That sounds delightful. |
| 20:57.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Kinesia (~Kinesia@115-64-111-2.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:10.25 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.174) |
| 21:12.54 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.174) |
| 21:49.33 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 21:49.33 | *** topic/#wowuidev is Happy Holidays! || 7.3.x ToC: 70300 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 22:21.47 | plaw | ursula le guin has passed away :( |
| 22:22.00 | plaw | (locus reports) |
| 23:32.40 | foxlit | # ... nowadays, hardly anyone has any chance of survival if they're up against a group of kingergarden children. |
| 23:40.51 | Stanzilla | in the US, even they are probably armed |
| 23:49.36 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
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