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| 19:12.27 | znf | https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7p71hu/tifu_by_ganking_a_20man_multiboxer/ |
| 19:12.46 | znf | when I said, years ago, that the auto-suspend shit is retarded, people told me there's no such thing |
| 19:46.52 | Chipzz | TheDanW: down to 20 errors total in all of FrameXML | SharedXML | GlueXML | AddOns . alphaMode attribute valid on Frame? (I suspect yes); motionScriptsWhileDisabled attribute valid on which elements? All elements that have OnEnabled/OnDisabled scripts? |
| 19:50.56 | Gnarfoz | znf: it only needs an IP limitation ^^ |
| 19:57.15 | TheDanW | Chipzz: alphaMode is only valid on backdrop and textures (and its subclasses, line, button textures etc); motionScriptsWhileDisabled is only valid on button and subclasses |
| 20:00.07 | Chipzz | TheDanW: AddOns/Blizzard_TalkingHeadUI/Blizzard_TalkingHeadUI.xml uses alphaMode on Button and PlayerModel |
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| 20:00.40 | Chipzz | TheDanW: AddOns/Blizzard_Collections/Blizzard_Wardrobe.xml uses motionScriptsWhileDisabled on EditBox |
| 20:01.22 | Chipzz | leave those as errors for the Blizzard team to solve? |
| 20:09.21 | Chipzz | or just remove them as unrecognized attributes are ignored anyway? |
| 20:20.11 | TheDanW | i just fixed them for 8.x |
| 20:24.24 | Gnarfoz | instant turnaround |
| 20:27.17 | schlumpf | > 8.x |
| 20:27.19 | schlumpf | > instant |
| 20:28.39 | znf | TheDanW, can you share if 8.0 includes new AH UI? (buy orders? *wink* *wink*) |
| 20:29.40 | Gnarfoz | schlumpf: >reported >fixed >stupid 4chan shit |
| 20:29.51 | schlumpf | how rude, Gnarfoz |
| 20:29.56 | Gnarfoz | >rude |
| 20:30.00 | schlumpf | > Gnarfoz |
| 20:32.24 | Gnarfoz | > > |
| 20:35.26 | TheDanW | can't share anything that isn't already public ;p |
| 20:35.41 | schlumpf | md5(interface/addons/blizzard_auctionui/blizzard_auctionui.xml) ? |
| 20:35.59 | Gnarfoz | I bet that needs more than just a new UI |
| 20:36.06 | schlumpf | md5(brain) |
| 20:36.10 | Gnarfoz | the entire thing needs a conceptual overhaul ^^ |
| 20:37.25 | schlumpf | it mostly needs a dbfilesclient/*filedata*.db* leak :P |
| 20:37.45 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure how that'll fix all the issues with the AH |
| 20:38.35 | schlumpf | > implying there are any ah issues |
| 20:38.48 | Gnarfoz | s/any/numerous/ ^^ |
| 20:39.05 | schlumpf | literally didn't change semantically |
| 20:40.13 | Gnarfoz | in which I point out there's nothing to change with my statement :p |
| 20:40.44 | schlumpf | now I'm getting confused |
| 20:41.23 | schlumpf | let's just can the auction house idea. it was flawed to begin with. people and stuff like that, you know. |
| 20:44.41 | Simca | i mean i'm fine with people who don't use auction addons getting bad deals on everything. they are the ones who should be upset that the AH doesn't show price per unit or allow sorting on it. |
| 20:45.26 | nevcairiel | didnt they add that |
| 20:45.56 | schlumpf | who knows? how does auctionframe even look without addons? |
| 20:46.22 | nevcairiel | my main problem with the AH is all those morons listing single stacks of ores and flowers and the like |
| 20:46.58 | schlumpf | I don't think you can solve that with a redesign, but you rather need a good cleansing for that |
| 20:47.15 | nevcairiel | hey dudes i need a thousand flowers to make flasks for my guild, dont want to click a thousand times to buy them all individually |
| 20:47.37 | Chipzz | go farm them ib your herbalist toon? :P |
| 20:48.35 | nevcairiel | then whats the AH for if the recommendation is to just go get stuff myself? =p |
| 20:48.37 | Constie | The default AH interface does show and let you sort by price per unit. I think it might not be the default sorting, though. |
| 20:48.58 | schlumpf | (and cleansing) |
| 20:51.52 | Gnarfoz | Blizzard made the single stack thing worse when they optimized that and made the default UI capable of posting 200 singles at a time |
| 20:51.54 | Gnarfoz | with 1 click |
| 20:52.12 | nevcairiel | yeah its seriously dumb that you can do that with one click and buying requires 200 clicks |
| 20:52.14 | Gnarfoz | (but the entire systems needs a rework, they should just steal GW2's trading post / Wildstar's trading post) |
| 20:52.30 | nevcairiel | if it would be 1:1 relationship, it would probably be better |
| 20:52.38 | nevcairiel | same number of clicks for sell/buy, i mean |
| 20:52.48 | Gnarfoz | doubtful since addons can still be used to make 200 clicks pretty much inconsequential |
| 20:53.10 | nevcairiel | only very inconveniently |
| 20:53.33 | nevcairiel | can do random shit like scrolling the mousewheel for a while, but that still feels annoying |
| 20:53.38 | Gnarfoz | do you find scrolling mousewheel for 5 seconds inconvenient? |
| 20:53.41 | nevcairiel | and might just teach people a bit about what they are doing |
| 20:53.52 | Gnarfoz | obsessive AH nerds probably have mice with infinite scroll scrollwheels ^^ |
| 20:54.05 | Gnarfoz | and I'm sure people know it's terrible and they're doing it regardless :D |
| 20:54.05 | nevcairiel | just add a stupid delay like with purchasing |
| 20:54.07 | nevcairiel | =p |
| 20:54.27 | nevcairiel | if it w ould be that easy, i could just purchase 200 with 5s of wheeling |
| 20:54.31 | nevcairiel | but alas, not so easy |
| 20:54.33 | schlumpf | so you're saying the solution to auctionframe is to just autoscroll? sounds fine to me! |
| 20:54.51 | Gnarfoz | just make it a "I'm offering X of Y for Z" and "I want to buy X of Y for Z" system like the trading posts I mentioned above, for anything that stacks |
| 20:55.19 | nevcairiel | yeah many games work like that, just tell the game how much you want and it tells you the price |
| 20:55.23 | Gnarfoz | (despite the channel name, the gripe is hardly about the UI, the source of the problem lies deeper) |
| 20:55.28 | nevcairiel | it gets a bit iffy with fast moving stock |
| 20:55.31 | nevcairiel | but shrug |
| 20:56.16 | Gnarfoz | which is also why I was sorely disappointed that they said nothing about an AH revamp at Blizzcon, which most likely means we're going to wait another expansion |
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| 20:56.59 | nevcairiel | dunno, they didnt go anywhere close to that kind of detail, although i guess they could've just snuck it in somewhere if they wanted to |
| 20:57.04 | nevcairiel | i remain hopeful |
| 20:57.09 | nevcairiel | not that i use the AH that much personally |
| 21:34.50 | Semlar_ | i'm pretty sure it doesn't take 5 seconds to buy 200 items |
| 21:35.53 | Semlar | because you can't sort the auction house by unit price, and therefor the addon must scan the entirety of the results to sort them |
| 21:36.03 | Semlar | going page by page |
| 21:37.06 | Semlar | after you buy a page worth of items, you have to run another search |
| 21:38.14 | foxlit | stop right there, villain. You can sort by price per unit. |
| 21:38.49 | Semlar | i haven't played in a year so i don't know if they ever added that |
| 21:40.26 | Semlar | well, you could run into a similar problem where people post stacks of items too large for you to want |
| 21:40.55 | Semlar | that's a lot harder to pull off though |
| 21:42.38 | Gnarfoz | despite its other annoying issues, I've had no issues mass-buying items with TSM |
| 21:44.11 | Semlar | previously it had to scan considerably more than just one page of search results to sort things properly, but if you can just sort by unit price then it's probably a lot faster now |
| 21:44.50 | Semlar | there was actually a bug at one point that let you return a huge number of results from one api call but i think they probably fixed that |
| 21:46.01 | Gnarfoz | GetAll? ^^ |
| 21:46.11 | Semlar | no, that's limited to one call per 15 minutes or something |
| 21:46.16 | Semlar | this was the normal search function |
| 21:46.19 | Gnarfoz | it's also incomplete, despite the name |
| 21:46.41 | Gnarfoz | by now, we use external programs to poll the AH web api and sync it into the game >_> |
| 21:46.47 | Semlar | i don't remember what you had to do, but you could call it with certain parameters and get every page of results at once |
| 21:47.27 | Semlar | i used it to modify my auctionlite because searches were absurdly slow |
| 21:48.28 | Semlar | pretty sure the web api isn't synced with the game in real time |
| 21:49.07 | foxlit | AH as gameplay just seems unfun. |
| 21:49.26 | Gnarfoz | Semlar: real time enough |
| 21:49.35 | Semlar | i made about 3 million gold at the start of legion |
| 21:49.38 | Gnarfoz | for price and availability data |
| 21:49.51 | Semlar | from the prelaunch event |
| 21:50.19 | Semlar | this was when tokens were less than 30k a piece |
| 21:50.54 | Gnarfoz | US token prices always make me giggle |
| 21:52.42 | Constie | It was funny when the token price spiked up a little while ago, and the peak US price was still lower than the regular EU price. |
| 21:54.56 | Semlar | i wonder what the next expansion launch will bring |
| 21:58.11 | Constie | Also there's definitely room for an AH overhaul in BfA. After Sylvanas beats the Alliance and unites all the races at the end of the first raid tier, the rest of the expansion will be focused on building infrastructure and making the new non-war-focused system work. |
| 21:58.43 | Semlar | the entire expansion will be centered around rebuilding the auction house ui |
| 21:59.25 | Semlar | does TSM still have the worst interface i have ever seen for anything |
| 21:59.40 | Gnarfoz | it has the most powerful UI you have ever seen ;p |
| 21:59.51 | Constie | Have you tried VuhDo? |
| 22:00.04 | Gnarfoz | idk, they have a UI revamp in the works, but I don't think that's on release yet |
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| 22:00.15 | foxlit | For the sake of interesting things, what is the *best* addon UI you have used? |
| 22:00.34 | Semlar | my addons all have no ui |
| 22:00.41 | Semlar | which is the best ui |
| 22:00.56 | Stanzilla | liar |
| 22:01.02 | Gnarfoz | Semlar already wins |
| 22:01.26 | Semlar | stanzilla where is the god damn discord bot |
| 22:01.38 | Stanzilla | oh did it die again |
| 22:01.47 | Semlar | how am i supposed to use irc without discord |
| 22:02.13 | Constie | TransmogRoulette has a button! |
| 22:02.14 | Stanzilla | oh right, they restarted the server today because of spectre meltdown |
| 22:02.27 | Semlar | i made transmogroulette entirely in one xml file |
| 22:02.43 | Semlar | so i guess technically it's all interface |
| 22:03.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Funkeh` (~Funkeh`@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/Ace3/BigWigs/funkeh) |
| 22:03.36 | foxlit | boo, hiss, that's not really an answer. |
| 22:04.00 | Semlar | that's a tough question, i don't think i use hardly any addons that have an interface |
| 22:04.14 | Semlar | every time i post a screenshot of my game people complain about my ui |
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| 22:04.18 | Stanzilla | there you go |
| 22:04.31 | Stanzilla | and AIO has UI |
| 22:04.31 | Semlar | thanks stanz |
| 22:04.33 | Stanzilla | you liar |
| 22:04.35 | Semlar | that doesn't count |
| 22:04.38 | Stanzilla | why not |
| 22:04.48 | Semlar | that's just putting stuff in the existing addon panel |
| 22:04.57 | Constie | I think PitBull might be my answer. Mostly every option is where I expect it to be and I'm rarely annoyed by it. |
| 22:05.01 | Stanzilla | you made the browser though |
| 22:05.04 | Stanzilla | and it was external before |
| 22:05.45 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:05.52 | Semlar | and me doing what i do best |
| 22:06.37 | Constie | Nice UI. I'm glad someone's keeping the toilet store in business. |
| 22:07.28 | Semlar | i have to play with a handicap or i'll make my group feel worse about their performance |
| 22:09.38 | Constie | My approach is to have a nice UI and play poorly. |
| 22:10.44 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.36 | Semlar | for example i found out you can color the raid frames |
| 22:13.54 | Semlar | and i replaced recount with details |
| 22:15.57 | Constie | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weGw0r1n248 ⨠|
| 22:16.38 | Gnarfoz | chatting during a pull like a pro |
| 22:16.41 | Constie | I only have raid frames visible because my guild wants them to be in kill videos for some reason. |
| 22:17.10 | Shockah | your raid frames make me think of the periodic table |
| 22:17.11 | Gnarfoz | because they show the state of the raid, duh |
| 22:17.42 | Semlar | that's originally why i made my nameplates for friendly players |
| 22:17.47 | Gnarfoz | although yours are colored such that h264 murders them a bit |
| 22:18.26 | Gnarfoz | also, your UI is too far into the realm of minimalism for me :p shows almost no info |
| 22:19.39 | Semlar | i was thinking about just stretching my dps meter across the entire screen |
| 22:19.52 | Constie | Information is a crutch. |
| 22:20.10 | Gnarfoz | indeed, knowledge is far more potent |
| 22:20.35 | Semlar | oh and i click my action bars |
| 22:21.30 | AcidWeb | Nice usage of UnitPositionFrame Constie. |
| 22:22.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Alea (b0c11e35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.193.30.53) |
| 22:22.32 | Alea | or minimap |
| 22:22.46 | Constie | Minimap. |
| 22:22.55 | AcidWeb | ah yes - arrows. |
| 22:23.43 | Simca | <html><body><p align="CENTER">Warning: Your current system will not be supported in future versions of World of Warcraft which will require a 64-bit operating system.</p></body></html> |
| 22:23.49 | Simca | <html><body><p align="CENTER">Warning: Your current graphics API will not be supported in future versions of World of Warcraft, which will require DirectX 11 or Metal.</p></body></html> |
| 22:23.53 | Simca | fuck yes |
| 22:24.34 | Constie | What's a UnitPositionFrame? I'd like to not have arrows. |
| 22:25.26 | Alea | https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/ptr/UnitPositionFrameTemplates.lua |
| 22:25.37 | Semlar | probably the thing that's on top of the map |
| 22:25.53 | AcidWeb | ^ |
| 22:26.56 | Semlar | they had to make sure you couldn't get player positions from it because it's totally unfair to have addons telling you how to play |
| 22:28.45 | Semlar | too bad we can't give friendly nameplates a template to use in instances |
| 22:29.13 | Gnarfoz | ...yet |
| 22:29.14 | Gnarfoz | ? :p |
| 22:29.37 | Gnarfoz | anyone running a Minecraft server? is bukkit the way to go? |
| 22:33.08 | Semlar | out of curiousity, do they just build the special nameplates from the same code that they use to make the default nameplates |
| 22:34.30 | foxlit | probably, yes. |
| 22:36.17 | Semlar | i'm guessing you can't just override the default template and have it get picked up |
| 22:37.06 | Alea | no |
| 22:37.48 | nevcairiel | its odd that they mention dx11 and metal in the same string, its not like its really a choice |
| 22:38.54 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:40.01 | Constie | Watch out for that attack. |
| 22:40.21 | Semlar | in retrospect, that wasn't the best place to stand |
| 22:40.31 | Simca | nevcairiel: i guess it means they plan to kill opengl support simultaneously? idk if true, wouldn't that hurt linux support? |
| 22:40.41 | nevcairiel | Simca: doubt they care about linux |
| 22:41.21 | nevcairiel | but windows opengl support has been super terrible since a few expansions anyway |
| 22:41.39 | nevcairiel | it got never updated for some of the newer features |
| 22:43.02 | nevcairiel | anyway the point was that windows people are unlikely to know what Metal even is, and Mac people dont care about dx11 either, can a platform specific string be so hard? =p |
| 22:43.35 | Gnarfoz | inb4 Windows people will think they mean Vulkan |
| 22:44.18 | nevcairiel | like thats going to happen |
| 22:44.31 | Constie | They should make WoW Linux-only, and have no default UI. Dedicated players only. |
| 22:44.43 | Gnarfoz | no UI at all, CLI only |
| 22:44.49 | nevcairiel | i think they are interested in actually selling a game |
| 22:44.49 | Gnarfoz | vim keybindings |
| 22:45.23 | foxlit | nevcairiel: perish the thought! |
| 22:47.21 | Gnarfoz | no, perish the users, they're the root of all evil |
| 22:49.38 | Simca | vim keybindings roflmao |
| 22:50.16 | nevcairiel | going to dx11/sm5 surely kills a lot of old systems tho |
| 22:51.43 | nevcairiel | for nvidia thats 400 series and up only, which for us sounds old, but you know the kind of crappy systems some people rock |
| 22:51.53 | Constie | Which isn't a problem at all if Blizzard is going to start selling computer hardware! |
| 22:52.09 | Gnarfoz | Constie: the plot thickens |
| 22:55.41 | Funkeh` | nevcairiel: pretty sure it's bad phrasing |
| 22:55.45 | Funkeh` | "at least dx 11" |
| 22:55.58 | Funkeh` | there will prob be dx12 |
| 22:56.35 | Gnarfoz | they probably really mean the feature level |
| 22:56.36 | nevcairiel | I never doubted that, I just find it funny to clumb it together with Metal with an "or", as if thats a choice anywhere |
| 22:56.37 | Gnarfoz | not the API |
| 22:56.48 | nevcairiel | metal is not a feature level tho |
| 22:56.55 | Gnarfoz | (of course not) |
| 22:56.59 | nevcairiel | i could see them just removing the dx9 renderer |
| 22:57.13 | Funkeh` | it's sad that devs are now going down the metal path because of apple idiocy |
| 22:57.32 | Funkeh` | and if they actually support vulkan in a few years its like, remember all that effort, throw it out the window |
| 22:57.53 | nevcairiel | its not like stupid fruit company gives you any choice |
| 22:58.28 | nevcairiel | but then they had basically been working on opengl just for osx, so might as well direct that just towards metal |
| 23:01.53 | Funkeh` | you mean standards are great as long as they are steering the ship? |
| 23:19.01 | Chipzz | TheDanW: http://chipzz.safehex.be/interface-validation.diff |
| 23:19.39 | Chipzz | TheDanW: that fixes all but 14 problems; I was unsure about these so I left them as-is |
| 23:22.08 | Chipzz | TheDanW: https://pastebin.com/PEdmq4zu are the remaining issues |
| 23:23.15 | Chipzz | AddOns/Blizzard_ArtifactUI/Blizzard_ArtifactPowerButton.xml will require an artist to look at the textureSubLevels and see if there are any unused, not gonna get into that |
| 23:24.59 | TheDanW | Chipzz: thanks! i'll take a look when i have some more time |
| 23:25.08 | TheDanW | BLIZZARD is a valid frameStrata |
| 23:25.31 | TheDanW | it's ok for <Color> to only partially specify rgba |
| 23:25.55 | Chipzz | TheDanW: I hand-edited the relativeKey parts out, so I hope I didn't mess up the diff :P |
| 23:26.10 | Chipzz | what are the default r/g/b values? 0.0? |
| 23:26.12 | TheDanW | i like the texcoords on the fontstring |
| 23:26.34 | TheDanW | rgb default to 0, a defaults to 1 |
| 23:26.40 | Chipzz | aight |
| 23:27.26 | Chipzz | I corrected a lot of justify[HV] instances, but the remaining ones are ambiguous and I'm not sure what the author meant |
| 23:29.31 | TheDanW | yup, your guess is as good as mine |
| 23:30.32 | Chipzz | you'll have to ask the committer, or dive deep into the XML I guess |
| 23:30.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Resike (~Resike@62.77.234.203) |
| 23:31.13 | Chipzz | I'm not gonna claim everything is 100% perfect, and IMO there's still room for improvement |
| 23:31.30 | Chipzz | but this at least make most of it validate |
| 23:31.58 | Chipzz | I can submit a follow-up improving some things liek for example the <Scripts> subtags |
| 23:32.07 | Chipzz | make them per element instead of all on Frame |
| 23:42.56 | Resike | TheDanW: Do you guys have an internal autocomplete package for the game api or for the xml tags? |
| 23:43.49 | Gnarfoz | Resike: in case that aims at wanting one for yourself: https://atom.io/packages/language-lua-wow nebula169 sends his regards |
| 23:45.09 | nevcairiel | although probably not for xml, because no sane addon author uses xml |
| 23:45.52 | Gnarfoz | right, doesn't cover that |
| 23:46.14 | nevcairiel | but a good xml editor could possibly use the xsd to offer autocomplete |
| 23:46.24 | Gnarfoz | if it was valid... :P |
| 23:46.45 | Resike | Nah i'm working on mine for Sublime, well it's incomplete but usable: https://github.com/Resike/WoWDevelopment |
| 23:46.56 | Resike | also i would pass on atom |
| 23:47.36 | Resike | well they are forced to write xml code, and i would jump out of the window if i would have to manually write debug or even just look at it |
| 23:49.52 | foxlit | </Resike> |
| 23:50.13 | Funkeh` | TheDanW: https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/25807/ZoneAbility.lua/diff i think that revert at the top was accidental? |
| 23:51.10 | nevcairiel | so often it seems like someone has issues merging in their version control, you see that kind of thing occasionally =p |
| 23:51.49 | Chipzz | I suspect they use CVS or SVN |
| 23:52.14 | nevcairiel | no sane person uses cvs anymore |
| 23:53.03 | Resike | thats why they might use it! |
| 23:54.51 | Funkeh` | TheDanW: same with line 705 here https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/25807/SpellBookFrame.lua/diff |
| 23:55.06 | Funkeh` | I'd probably recommend reviewing the whole thing, there are some oddities I cannot be certain of |
| 23:55.06 | Gnarfoz | dirac, or bazaar, because someone thought that was cool in 1999 |
| 23:55.54 | nevcairiel | work used sourcesafe back in the day, but they got rid of that before I joined, thank god |
| 23:56.22 | nevcairiel | but VSS is also quite thoroughly dead by now |
| 23:56.25 | Semlar | perhaps they had a reason to use the texture paths instead of the IDs |
| 23:56.53 | Funkeh` | pretty sure it was unrelated cleanups as they were going along implementing the spell info changes |
| 23:58.16 | Funkeh` | TheDanW: a few here https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/25807/QuestFrame.lua/diff |
| 23:58.25 | Funkeh` | besides, they want to save on that precious RAM right |