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| 04:45.03 | znf | has the new star trek aired yet in the US? |
| 04:45.49 | Torhal | znf: Tomorrow. |
| 04:46.01 | znf | time zones are confusing! |
| 04:46.32 | Ammako | time zones are fun |
| 04:47.50 | Torhal | znf: 01:30 UTC is when it airs here. |
| 04:49.34 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/KGcruHr.png |
| 04:49.35 | znf | what the fuck |
| 04:51.49 | Ammako | So. It has come to this. |
| 05:51.09 | Talyrius | znf: https://github.com/keraf/NoCoin |
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| 06:32.05 | Semlar | you couldn't mine enough bitcoins with javascript to amount to anything meaningful |
| 06:35.36 | nebula | didn't some popular site start serving some js that was mining btc? wonder how that worked out |
| 06:36.52 | nebula | that was malware, though, not intentional iirc |
| 06:41.13 | Semlar | you need like a server farm of dedicated gpus to do mining at this point |
| 06:41.34 | Semlar | even if a ton of people had your website open all the time, javascript is running on one core of their cpu |
| 06:42.40 | Semlar | it wouldn't remotely compete with actual advertising revenue |
| 06:49.43 | Mr_Rabies | that's why you gotta open 8 popunders |
| 06:50.04 | Semlar | i mean, you're still limited to the browser's cpu cap |
| 06:50.32 | Semlar | i guess if it's opening tabs as separate processes it might be able to make use of more cores |
| 06:50.44 | Semlar | but then, it's still just the cpu |
| 06:50.58 | Semlar | what you need to do is hijack their graphics card |
| 06:59.50 | nebula | eh? you can get to the gpu with js |
| 07:00.20 | nebula | assuming it supports webgl |
| 07:02.23 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
| 07:10.20 | karl_w_w | and people are much less likely to notice their GPU getting hit |
| 07:13.45 | Mr_Rabies | just make a unity-based miner that plays elsa spiderman videos and rake in that "future idiot" market |
| 07:19.22 | Torhal | Or videos of Bluspacecow trying to use an iPod. |
| 07:20.29 | Bluspacecow | wat |
| 07:20.32 | Bluspacecow | so mean |
| 07:28.23 | Torhal | :/ |
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| 08:17.36 | VIad | heh, more baba ji help, finally |
| 08:18.29 | VIad | I wonder if google could help with their anti-bot measures during registration and such, maybe require captcha for the first 10 posts or something as well |
| 08:20.46 | Torhal | captchas VIad in a Poké Ball. |
| 08:50.00 | pompy | punches torhal in the beard |
| 08:50.34 | Torhal | stabs pompy in the pompy with pompy. |
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| 18:23.56 | karl_w_w | https://i.imgur.com/X3BJzvM.jpg |
| 18:29.55 | ls- | dat chinglish, my people never cease to amaze me :p |
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| 18:45.33 | karl_w_w | also quite illegal :P |
| 18:46.08 | karl_w_w | there's a new law that nobody can charge more than what it costs them as a credit card surcharge |
| 18:46.24 | karl_w_w | getting around it with a discount for cash isn't going to fly |
| 18:53.57 | ls- | oh, wow... |
| 18:57.32 | Maldivia | well, at least Bill is going to be happy, that they won't split him |
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| 19:00.13 | Mr_Rabies | okay how are there zero lean shanks on the AH |
| 19:02.39 | Torhal | karl_w_w: Seriously? |
| 19:02.50 | Torhal | That's... wow. Corruption FTW. |
| 19:03.19 | Mr_Rabies | you sure that's a law and not just an agreement with the card company? |
| 19:06.22 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 19:07.19 | Torhal | Local, State, or Federal? |
| 19:08.12 | Mr_Rabies | who lists things in stacks of 7 on the AH, wtf |
| 19:08.25 | Mr_Rabies | 1, 5 or 10, sure |
| 19:08.27 | Mr_Rabies | 7? |
| 19:08.30 | Mr_Rabies | like 5 stacks of 7 |
| 19:08.43 | Ammako | 7 is lucky |
| 19:08.56 | karl_w_w | federal i think |
| 19:08.56 | Torhal | Mr_Rabies: After two years, I finally tracked down the reason for the "1000 stacks of 1" shit that's been the plague of my life. |
| 19:09.06 | Ammako | I'd do that specifically to confuse people tbh |
| 19:09.09 | Torhal | I can now definitively blame Sapu. |
| 19:09.16 | Mr_Rabies | i actually love single stacks, personally |
| 19:09.25 | Torhal | When buying? |
| 19:09.26 | Mr_Rabies | so i can buy exactly how many i need |
| 19:09.27 | Mr_Rabies | yes |
| 19:09.37 | Torhal | "Yeah, I'll take 300 of these. Oh. FUCK." |
| 19:09.38 | Ammako | the only real issue with single stacks isn't with the single stacks, but with the auction UI. |
| 19:09.45 | Mr_Rabies | i mean auctionator makes it super easy |
| 19:10.23 | Torhal | It does? That's what I'd been using. I tried TSM, and noped the fuck out because that shit requires a degree and I just wanna sell shit. |
| 19:10.33 | karl_w_w | actrually i dont think im sure |
| 19:10.51 | Torhal | The default is a stack of 1, and apparently changing it to something else requires three Phd.s |
| 19:11.18 | Mr_Rabies | yeah everytime i install TSM i uninstall it within 24 hours |
| 19:11.19 | Ammako | perhaps they could add ctrl/shift-click to auction UI for selecting multiple auctions at once. no clue how difficult that could be. |
| 19:11.21 | Mr_Rabies | the UX is just terrible |
| 19:11.38 | Torhal | My rule? Anything you install that isn't immediately intuitive or doesn't have in-game documentation? Fuck that noise. |
| 19:11.49 | Mr_Rabies | they really should just make two seperate auction houses, one for commodities and one for crafted gear |
| 19:12.03 | Semlar | that's why my addons don't even have options |
| 19:12.13 | Torhal | You don't even have AddOns. |
| 19:12.15 | Torhal | Well... |
| 19:12.16 | Semlar | it doesn't get more intuitive than that |
| 19:12.18 | Torhal | Kinda. |
| 19:12.30 | Ammako | but then people keep complaining "how do i change the options" |
| 19:12.39 | Semlar | that's when i hunker down |
| 19:12.52 | Ammako | to be fair those people are beyond helping |
| 19:12.57 | Torhal | You hunker down and say "BRING THE HURRICANES!!!" |
| 19:13.09 | Mr_Rabies | a buy order system for boe equipment would be nice, and something where you could just buy 39 whatevers at the lowest price would be nice, but i guess the risk of the latter system is people using it as some kind of bank |
| 19:14.11 | Torhal | I just want WoW to adopt the GW2 system. |
| 19:14.37 | Torhal | I played that game for all of a month, but their "auction" system was amazing. |
| 19:14.54 | Torhal | "I want this particular item, and I'll pay this much. Goodbye." |
| 19:15.02 | Torhal | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 19:15.41 | Ammako | tbh runescape does it better than wow, even |
| 19:17.36 | Mr_Rabies | https://i.imgur.com/up16rfK.png i know, not 1000 stacks of 1, but this interface basically defeats the "pages of stacks of x" problem |
| 19:19.05 | Torhal | I use Auctionator. I've either not seen how to buy multiples, or the fact that someone undercut me by 1c 1k times pissed me off. :D |
| 19:19.28 | Mr_Rabies | you just click on the price you want and slam the buy button |
| 19:19.43 | Ammako | i like when people try to just undercut me by 1c, because then i undercut them by 100g over and over until they are basically forced to sell way lower than they'd like |
| 19:19.52 | Torhal | Anyway, I've largely avoided the AH for years because I don't want that to be my whole game. |
| 19:20.06 | Mr_Rabies | i barely use the AH anymore |
| 19:20.13 | Mr_Rabies | i wish i had something better for listing xmogs |
| 19:20.13 | Torhal | And yeah - I don't want to click-click-click-click, Mr_Rabies. |
| 19:20.29 | Mr_Rabies | you could probably get creative with mousewheel + a /click macro, but lol |
| 19:20.37 | Mr_Rabies | that could never go poorly |
| 19:20.51 | Mr_Rabies | but at the very least you can work around the 1000 stacks of 1 if you need a lot |
| 19:21.15 | Torhal | You're obviously more ingrained than I am - I barely spend money, you have five time more than I do, and you even have a search list. :D |
| 19:21.28 | Mr_Rabies | i use it to buy stuff mostly, not list |
| 19:21.29 | Torhal | times* |
| 19:21.30 | Mr_Rabies | i'm a packrat |
| 19:21.33 | Torhal | Ah. |
| 19:22.05 | Torhal | I gather herbs on occasion and put 'em up because I've not actually played the game except to max level every expansion since TBC. |
| 19:22.06 | Mr_Rabies | i do have a shitload of transmog gear i want to list but the interface just makes it impossible |
| 19:22.09 | Thunder_Child | karl_w_w: Couldn't it be soemthing like: the price is $X, if you pay with CC it's $X + surcharge, if you pay with cash it's $X - discount? I mean it seems silly but it should be legal. |
| 19:22.16 | Thunder_Child | something* |
| 19:23.02 | Torhal | Thunder_Child: Not if corporate lobbyists got some shady shit passed, which NEVER happens. EVER. Because ethics. |
| 19:23.38 | Ammako | i actually had like at least 50 mog pieces at some point that I was all trying to sell at once |
| 19:23.48 | Mr_Rabies | i have like 300 or so |
| 19:23.50 | Mr_Rabies | ;_; |
| 19:23.58 | Mr_Rabies | an entire guild bank full, just about |
| 19:24.02 | Ammako | log back in every 2 days or so and i have half of them in my mailand i need to list them all again |
| 19:24.11 | Mr_Rabies | mine's more like 95% don't sell |
| 19:24.12 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: that would completely negate any effect of the law. |
| 19:24.17 | Mr_Rabies | this isn't an xmog realm, really, i guess |
| 19:24.26 | Ammako | well i say half cause i didnt list them all at the same times |
| 19:24.40 | Torhal | Anywho - bed. |
| 19:24.45 | Ammako | so id log on the next day and half oft he rest came back in the mail, log on the next day and the rest is there |
| 19:24.47 | Torhal | Have fun storming the castle. |
| 19:24.50 | Mr_Rabies | i should just go full fire sale sometime, list them all at 20g and tank the whole market |
| 19:24.57 | Torhal | Hahaha |
| 19:25.15 | Mr_Rabies | probably still would have like half of them not sell lol |
| 19:25.18 | Ammako | i made a fair amount from them, still. more than i could have expected but not really any huge amount by any means but still |
| 19:25.25 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: Huh, isn't the law just, don't charge more than you get charged? |
| 19:25.31 | Ammako | selling one item for 12.5k is nice to me |
| 19:25.45 | Mr_Rabies | that's actually the only reason i tried TSM, listing BoEs is a nightmare |
| 19:25.50 | Mr_Rabies | listing commodities is easy |
| 19:26.45 | Ammako | it wasnt the most efficient use of my time because that was the fruit of two days of farming dire maul but i wont complain about getting a 50k-100k return from it |
| 19:27.49 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: https://xkcd.com/1494/ generally applies. |
| 19:28.04 | Mr_Rabies | i made some bank on those BoE 840 lvl 101 items, tho |
| 19:28.12 | Mr_Rabies | 50k+ on some of those, each |
| 19:28.27 | Ammako | i can never tell if im making a good deal or getting ripped off on that sort of thing, lol |
| 19:29.03 | Ammako | if a listing sells a minute after I put it up i always feel like i could have sold for higher |
| 19:29.23 | Mr_Rabies | i stopped worrying about it, at least it sold at a price i was willing to list it for |
| 19:29.45 | Ammako | true. but i guess i could have gotten more than 30k for that 840 boe crit ring |
| 19:29.49 | Mr_Rabies | but i use undermine journal historical data on some stuff, so i feel a bit more informed |
| 19:30.10 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: pfft, I'm too cool to get caught. |
| 19:30.12 | foxlit | in this case, this is worked around by defining a surcharge as "an amount (however described) charged for using one payment method rather than another." which effectively kills the "but you get a discount for using cash!" fuckery. |
| 19:30.30 | Ammako | it's went down in price now but i got it early in expansion. |
| 19:33.02 | karl_w_w | Thunder_Child, it can be formatted however they like as long as they arent charging more than it costs for a card than what the bank charges them |
| 19:33.05 | karl_w_w | compared to cash |
| 19:33.12 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: Well it depends on how the prices are listed. If they are listed without either already applied, then it's leagal, but stupid. |
| 19:33.18 | Thunder_Child | legal* |
| 19:33.41 | Semlar | stop lifehacking Thunder_Child |
| 19:33.41 | Thunder_Child | karl_w_w: Ok, that's what I understood. |
| 19:34.11 | Thunder_Child | Semlar: I enjoy finding loopholes. |
| 19:34.36 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: by legal you mean explicitly against that australian law? :) |
| 19:35.00 | Thunder_Child | Figuratively that is, arrowslits are not that hard to find. |
| 19:35.36 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: That sign could be legal depending on how the food prices are listed. |
| 19:36.26 | foxlit | why do you think the listings have any bearing at all on the situation, versus the presense of a "$X if you pay cash, $X+$tooMuch if you pay by card" consumer choice? |
| 19:37.31 | Thunder_Child | What if 1.3% is the actual surecharge? |
| 19:37.36 | Thunder_Child | surcharge* |
| 19:37.41 | Thunder_Child | I can not type this morning. |
| 19:37.45 | Thunder_Child | properly. |
| 19:37.54 | Semlar | this seems like a complicated way to write a 3.8% surcharge |
| 19:39.50 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: only safe if 4.41% is the actual surcharge. |
| 19:40.02 | karl_w_w | 1.3% probably is their surcharge |
| 19:40.09 | karl_w_w | most are around 1.5% |
| 19:40.17 | karl_w_w | other than amex which is 3.5% |
| 19:40.32 | karl_w_w | but that's clearly not what they're charging :P |
| 19:40.45 | Thunder_Child | ..Still missing my point. Dish A is $5. If you pay with CC it's $5 + surcharge. If you pay with cash it's $5 - discount. |
| 19:40.50 | Thunder_Child | Stupid, but legal. |
| 19:41.02 | Semlar | i get a big discount for paying my dentist in cash |
| 19:42.54 | foxlit | Thunder_Child: your point assumes that the law is written in a stupid way that allows this. It isn't. |
| 19:43.19 | karl_w_w | I understand what you're saying, i just dont see why u think it could be legal |
| 19:43.23 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: Yes, it is. you are still only getting charged an additional 1.3% if you pay with a CC. |
| 19:45.36 | Thunder_Child | This all assumes that the price on the menu is listed WITHOUT the CC surcharge or the cash discount. |
| 19:45.48 | Thunder_Child | Assume it's the cost if paying by check or something. |
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| 19:47.44 | karl_w_w | "If a business includes in its prices what it calls a âservice feeâ or a âhandling feeâ the ban will apply if those âfeesâ are payable on some payment methods but not others (e.g. the fees apply when a customer pays with a credit or debit card, but not when the payment method is cash). A business is not able to by-pass the new ban by introducing what is in effect a payment surcharge but calling it something else" |
| 19:49.21 | Thunder_Child | Ok, that does not quite sound like what you said. |
| 19:52.49 | karl_w_w | the actual law itself is clearer still: payment surcharge means an amount (however described) charged for using one payment method rather than another. |
| 19:53.05 | foxlit | hey, I quoted that earlier :P |
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| 19:57.58 | karl_w_w | I think I get it now |
| 19:58.56 | karl_w_w | Thunder_Child is thinking it's a law to fight unexpected excessive charges, which is why it would matter how it's written on a menu |
| 19:59.14 | karl_w_w | but the law is to limit the surcharges completely |
| 19:59.15 | Mr_Rabies | where is this anyway? |
| 19:59.23 | karl_w_w | 'straya |
| 19:59.45 | Mr_Rabies | ah, was gonna say |
| 19:59.58 | Mr_Rabies | plenty of places discount based on cash here, most often used are gas stations |
| 20:00.12 | Mr_Rabies | some are a whole 10c cheaper per gallon for cash |
| 20:00.58 | karl_w_w | probably some sweet sweet tax evasion going on there |
| 20:01.01 | foxlit | inevitably makes me think someone is cheating on their taxes. |
| 20:01.36 | karl_w_w | there's no way their bank is charging them 10c per gallon for card processing |
| 20:03.56 | Mr_Rabies | probably not, but that's fine with me |
| 20:04.56 | karl_w_w | well assuming you pay any tax they're robbing you :P |
| 20:05.34 | Mr_Rabies | i'm less worried about joe patel robbing me for his rinkydink gas station |
| 20:06.04 | Mr_Rabies | than folks like apple basically getting away with paying nothing |
| 20:11.31 | foxlit | dunno, the gas stations seem like they might have a more significant local impact than apple. |
| 20:12.17 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: To be fair yours said 'charged'. In that case it would be price listed on the menu is the price with the surcharge rolled in then discount for paying in cash. |
| 20:13.12 | Thunder_Child | The vending machine at my work is like that. The price listed displays a "$.10" cash discount. |
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| 20:20.20 | Mr_Rabies | i tip waitstaff in cash for a similar reason, a little tax evasion for the little guy is okay |
| 20:20.53 | Mr_Rabies | everyone knows the real robbery happens inside the convenience store area of a gas station anyway |
| 20:21.12 | foxlit | the law makes no references to listed prices, so I think it's violated whenever the difference between what you'd pay using any two payment methods exceeds the difference between the allowed surcharges. It would be silly, when attempting to regulate this difference, to allow a scheme like "List price 10$, 5$ discount if you pay cash, nyannyan, that's not a 5$ surcharge!" |
| 20:21.19 | Mr_Rabies | buddy this tea says 99c on the can, i'm not paying $1.79 |
| 20:25.22 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: Now I'm confused. I understood that to mean you can't charge differently for different forms of payment. |
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| 20:28.54 | foxlit | the merchants are allowed to recover costs associated with card processing (up to some regulated maximum), and those costs vary by card type, so it's possible to pay different amounts based on which payment method you use. |
| 20:34.06 | foxlit | Without regulation, the surcharges applied by some merchants exceed the actual costs of accepting card payment, which is what this is intended to curtail. |
| 20:35.24 | karl_w_w | the funny thing is, the vast majority don't charge a surcharge at all |
| 20:35.51 | Thunder_Child | Or they just roll it into the base price and people who pay in cash get shafted. |
| 20:36.09 | karl_w_w | they don't really get shafted |
| 20:36.22 | karl_w_w | there is a cost to handling cash |
| 20:36.29 | karl_w_w | both in time spent and insurance |
| 20:37.33 | Thunder_Child | I would be surprised if you got charged less for your insurance premiums for not accepting cash. |
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| 21:01.30 | Iriel | Thunder_Child: Our vending machines have that $.10 thing as well, I wondered how widespread it was. |
| 21:02.16 | Iriel | Note that on top of network fees, there's also the merchant's own overhead for dealing with things like fraud, compliance audits, whatever. |
| 21:02.45 | foxlit | I bet they have to pay for electricity, too! |
| 21:02.45 | Iriel | For small merchants they are often getting their payment services through a 3rd party who add their own transaction fees on top of the network fee. |
| 21:03.02 | Mr_Rabies | i see it as something to let the market work out, but that's not generally how australia does things |
| 21:03.08 | Mr_Rabies | if their fees are really that bad, people will go elsewhere |
| 21:03.40 | foxlit | the government has a vested interest in you not using cash. |
| 21:03.45 | Mr_Rabies | so long as it's posted somewhere conspicuous |
| 21:05.17 | karl_w_w | why would the merchant have overheads for fraud or audits? |
| 21:05.47 | Iriel | Because credit cards are not magical |
| 21:06.05 | Iriel | Even IF the merchant is protected from chargebacks, it's a lot of work to FILE a chargeback |
| 21:06.35 | karl_w_w | you guys are really the wild west on card handling |
| 21:06.48 | karl_w_w | in australia the bank is the one responsible |
| 21:07.03 | karl_w_w | they charge the merchant whatever the fee is and that's it |
| 21:07.18 | Iriel | Even if they are, I doubt that the bank compensates the merchant for their time. But who knows. |
| 21:07.27 | Iriel | Maybe it's some kind of merchant-centric nirvana down under. |
| 21:07.52 | Iriel | (Our australia presence is small enough that they use a 3rd party, and I haven't been involved in it at all). |
| 21:08.06 | karl_w_w | not really, we just have regulators :P |
| 21:08.23 | Iriel | The US on the other hand adopts a 'take as much risk as you want' approach, where the banks take on as little risk as they possibly can get away with (and then a little less than THAT). |
| 21:09.06 | karl_w_w | most things like this here are regulated by an independant body |
| 21:09.35 | karl_w_w | so there's little politics involved and no bribery- i mean political donations |
| 21:09.37 | Iriel | I came to the conclusion some time ago that successful credit networks are lubricated with generous amounts of calculated risk. |
| 21:10.49 | Mr_Rabies | basically every credit transaction has an assumed cost for the card company or the business just eating part of it when something goes wrong |
| 21:11.15 | Iriel | The card company has very little skin in the game, and they live on interchange fees. |
| 21:11.20 | Mr_Rabies | (that's why no one takes american express, they'll accept a chargeback just because you say you didn't like something) |
| 21:11.30 | Iriel | The bank and the merchant are the risk takers. |
| 21:11.34 | Mr_Rabies | even if you paid for it, used it for months |
| 21:11.53 | Mr_Rabies | just saying you didn't like it could easily result in a successful chargeback |
| 21:13.16 | karl_w_w | i wonder why anyone accepts it really |
| 21:13.41 | Mr_Rabies | being afraid of "leaving money on the table" |
| 21:13.47 | Mr_Rabies | but everyone with an amex also has a visa/mastercard |
| 21:13.52 | Mr_Rabies | because they know no one takes it |
| 21:14.00 | karl_w_w | yeah |
| 21:15.50 | foxlit | mostly fine here; not accepting amex is unusual. |
| 21:21.00 | foxlit | (still carry cash, though, because CC acceptance for low amounts varies wildly -- "cash only" "not under £5" "+50p if under £5" etc.) |
| 21:21.46 | Mr_Rabies | used to be against the card agreement to say "cash only below $10" or something |
| 21:21.50 | Mr_Rabies | not anymore in most cases |
| 21:23.48 | Ammako | cash is unusual here, everyone uses debit |
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| 21:27.11 | Mr_Rabies | i tend to use debit for chains, cash for small businesses |
| 21:27.53 | nebula | i hate cash |
| 21:28.05 | znf | <foxlit> (still carry cash, though, because CC acceptance for low amounts varies wildly -- "cash only" "not under £5" "+50p if under £5" etc.) |
| 21:28.08 | znf | isn't that illegal? |
| 21:28.12 | znf | the part with +50p if under 5? |
| 21:28.26 | Mr_Rabies | i generally like having an actual feel for how much money i'm paying for stuff |
| 21:29.03 | Mr_Rabies | so that the hassle of getting cash out for all those small transactions helps me realize how much i'm spending on the small stuff |
| 21:29.16 | Mr_Rabies | on the other hand, i have a huge change bucket i need to take to a machine sometime |
| 21:29.41 | Mr_Rabies | my bank that had a free coinstar machine closed their location in my county so i gotta drive like 2 hours to the closest one isntead :( |
| 21:32.04 | Mr_Rabies | jesus 11.9% service fee for coinstar nowadays lmao |
| 21:33.17 | foxlit | znf: at the moment, only if that exceeds their incurred costs, I think. Legislation banning card surcharges altogether is supposed to take effect in January. |
| 21:34.56 | Thunder_Child | Mr_Rabies: All depends on how much your time is worth. Could roll them yourself. |
| 21:36.05 | Mr_Rabies | also could get them fee-less for an amazon gift card instead |
| 21:36.13 | Mr_Rabies | i might just do that since i know i'd eventually spend it |
| 21:38.17 | znf | foxlit, interesting. |
| 21:39.57 | karl_w_w | you could just spend your change like any sensible adult :) |
| 21:40.40 | Mr_Rabies | i do, but reloading my pants with change is weird |
| 21:40.59 | Mr_Rabies | "let me just add a bunch of stuff that weighs a lot and jingles INTENTIONALLY to my pants |
| 21:41.01 | Mr_Rabies | " |
| 21:42.35 | Ammako | i like that wording |
| 21:43.33 | karl_w_w | personally I love reloading my pants |
| 21:43.45 | karl_w_w | but only with legs |
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| 21:49.53 | znf | I just have a piggybank at home with change |
| 21:50.04 | znf | I'm not ever taking stuff out of there |
| 21:50.51 | znf | but I usually avoid paying with cash |
| 21:50.57 | znf | debit all the way |
| 21:54.14 | Ammako | i have a small pile of change in a drawer, idk what ill do with it |
| 21:54.35 | Semlar | pile up |
| 21:57.17 | znf | I probably have around ~10⬠in change, too lazy to do anything about it anyway |
| 21:57.54 | ls- | the only time I pay in cash here in Thailand is when I pay for laundry and drinking water, other than that... even grannies who sell greens have personal terminals o_O |
| 21:58.39 | ls- | in China I don't use cash at all... |
| 22:18.22 | nebula | greens? |
| 22:20.54 | Gnarfoz | Mr_Rabies: your pants? that's what wallets are for |
| 22:21.23 | Thunder_Child | Most people don't cary a coin purse. |
| 22:21.46 | znf | kullervo, heh! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou57ZSEv2dA |
| 22:22.10 | Gnarfoz | Thunder_Child: u wot m8 |
| 22:22.21 | Gnarfoz | I said wallet, it has space for coins |
| 22:22.41 | znf | your wallet has space for coins? O.O |
| 22:22.50 | znf | mine doesn't |
| 22:22.52 | Gnarfoz | that's almost literally what it exists for |
| 22:22.52 | Thunder_Child | A wallet with space for coins is a purse. |
| 22:22.58 | Gnarfoz | a purse is what women carry |
| 22:23.04 | Thunder_Child | Sexist. |
| 22:23.11 | Gnarfoz | you can carry one if you want |
| 22:23.51 | kullervo | I wonder if the tclast tbook 16 would be a good ultra portable device for watching streams and videos |
| 22:24.12 | Gnarfoz | guess what features a wallet has differs depending on local money usage (who'd have thought) |
| 22:24.41 | Thunder_Child | In the US wallets with coin pockets is unusual. |
| 22:25.09 | Thunder_Child | I would assume in places where they use $1 coins like Canada it might be more common. |
| 22:26.18 | znf | Gnarfoz, pft, it exists for bills! |
| 22:26.27 | znf | and cards |
| 22:26.28 | znf | and id |
| 22:26.32 | znf | and drivers' license |
| 22:26.47 | Gnarfoz | they go in there as well, yes ^^ |
| 22:32.11 | znf | I've had a mighty wallet for 3 years now, damn sure I'm not gonna put coins in it https://www.dynomighty.com/shop/A-S-T-R-O |
| 22:32.36 | Thunder_Child | My eyes are bleeding. |
| 22:33.33 | znf | it's light and slim |
| 22:33.37 | znf | not bulky |
| 22:33.39 | znf | it's great |
| 22:33.50 | Thunder_Child | I have had one made of tyvek, but it streched. |
| 22:34.43 | Thunder_Child | Now what I have is https://www.slimfoldwallet.com/products/thin-wallet-original-soft-shell and it is fantastic. |
| 22:35.06 | Thunder_Child | I lied, I have the micro one https://www.slimfoldwallet.com/products/thin-wallet-micro-soft-shell |
| 22:35.20 | Thunder_Child | Well I own both, but I only use the micro one. |
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| 22:40.11 | znf | looks interesting |
| 22:40.22 | znf | but it's expensive-ish |
| 22:40.33 | znf | doubt I'll find it locally available |
| 22:41.01 | znf | also wouldn't fit my ID card in there |
| 22:41.10 | nebula | i only carry my id and two ccs https://www.tannergoods.com/collections/wallets/products/minimal-card-wallet |
| 22:41.41 | nevcairiel | my ID is like the size of two CCs next to each other, so our wallets are usually a bit bigger |
| 22:42.03 | Gnarfoz | yeah, wish such a small wallet would work here |
| 22:42.11 | kullervo | https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/snigel-design-wallet/16054 |
| 22:42.16 | Gnarfoz | but coins are real, and so are old IDs (until 2020) |
| 22:42.19 | kullervo | fits work related cards and such |
| 22:42.35 | nevcairiel | yeah i have an old ID, which is even valid until 2020 |
| 22:42.40 | Gnarfoz | same |
| 22:42.43 | nevcairiel | got it like a month before they switched |
| 22:42.58 | nevcairiel | and yeah we use way too much cash here still |
| 22:43.36 | Gnarfoz | I use seqr in a lot of places now, but it (like basically any nfc payment solution) requires CC (specifically mastercard) acceptance |
| 22:44.06 | znf | I just changed my ID, it's still huge as fuck |
| 22:44.07 | Gnarfoz | which party would I have needed to vote for to get modern payment solutions? :P probably none of them |
| 22:44.25 | znf | they've been promising card-sized IDs for 6 years now |
| 22:44.56 | nevcairiel | our new ID got smaller, but probably still bigger then a standard-sized CC card |
| 22:45.04 | Gnarfoz | nah, it's CC size |
| 22:45.22 | znf | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/cKiDtlC2/20170925_014154.jpg |
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| 22:46.28 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: do shops need to specifically accept seqr or does it work anywhere where contactless mastercard would work? |
| 22:46.34 | Gnarfoz | the latter |
| 22:47.06 | nevcairiel | i've been paying with contactless visa and contactless EC card in various shops around town |
| 22:47.20 | Gnarfoz | ec card doesn't exist ;p |
| 22:47.24 | Gnarfoz | but: giro go? |
| 22:47.28 | Gnarfoz | I thought that was based on Geldkarte' |
| 22:47.33 | Gnarfoz | or something else |
| 22:47.38 | nevcairiel | they change the name of that shit way too often anyway |
| 22:47.54 | nevcairiel | for me it'll always be the EC card! |
| 22:48.29 | Gnarfoz | it's been "Girocard" for 10 years ^^ |
| 22:48.41 | nevcairiel | i'm older then that |
| 22:48.58 | Gnarfoz | (their sneaky re-brand of eurocheque to "electronic cash" to not have to change logos everywhere was even further back in 2001) |
| 22:49.05 | Gnarfoz | anyway |
| 22:49.15 | Gnarfoz | which contactless for that? |
| 22:49.33 | znf | what's seqr |
| 22:49.34 | Gnarfoz | because obviously that's the "shortest" route (no detour via CC) |
| 22:49.36 | Gnarfoz | an app |
| 22:49.39 | nevcairiel | but yeah they use the girogo logo for that, but its not based on the pre-charged geldkarte amount anyway, i never charged that ever |
| 22:49.54 | Gnarfoz | hmm, I must be confusing that, then |
| 22:50.08 | Gnarfoz | or maybe how it works depends on the bank |
| 22:50.13 | znf | so how would that app work? |
| 22:50.13 | Gnarfoz | I'd not be surprised at all |
| 22:50.30 | Gnarfoz | by doing NFC HCE in your phone and "pretending" to be a CC |
| 22:51.04 | znf | only works with 1 bank in romania, lol |
| 22:51.04 | znf | fuck that |
| 22:51.07 | nevcairiel | apparently older cards could use the pre-charged amount for girogo, and new cards can also use your account |
| 22:51.16 | nevcairiel | https://www.sparkasse.de/service/kontaktloses-bezahlen-NFC.html |
| 22:51.23 | Gnarfoz | uh "works with 1 bank"? |
| 22:51.26 | Gnarfoz | it doesn't need bank support |
| 22:51.36 | Gnarfoz | you can just use SEPA as backing |
| 22:51.45 | Gnarfoz | unless you have banks that don't do SEPA (wtf) |
| 22:52.04 | nevcairiel | i wonder if they'll also put that into their app |
| 22:52.06 | nevcairiel | that would be neat |
| 22:52.11 | Gnarfoz | yomo? |
| 22:52.17 | znf | it does here |
| 22:52.39 | Gnarfoz | not sure how you get to that conclusion... did you install it and try to add SEPA backing? |
| 22:53.01 | Gnarfoz | or rather, how did THEY get to that conclusion :D |
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| 22:54.11 | Gnarfoz | https://www.seqr.com/ro/functionalitati/ yeah... they don't even list "tap and pay" |
| 22:54.22 | Gnarfoz | so I guess they don't have a deal with mastercard for romania |
| 22:54.40 | Gnarfoz | that's a more important problem than banks being assholes |
| 22:54.41 | znf | you have to scan a QR code |
| 22:54.49 | Gnarfoz | yeah that's terrible and not what I was talking about |
| 22:55.16 | Gnarfoz | you could try "boon." but they probably care the same amount about .ro :( |
| 22:55.16 | nebula | heh, that was what walmart was trying to push instead of ev here |
| 22:55.57 | nebula | emv** |
| 22:56.19 | znf | you have to scan a QR code _and_ confirm via PIN |
| 22:56.26 | znf | yeah, no, I'll keep using my contactless visa |
| 22:56.41 | Gnarfoz | yeah you don't have to keep going on about how terrible the thing I wasn't talking about is |
| 22:56.54 | znf | you said seqr! |
| 22:56.56 | znf | it's seqr! |
| 22:57.04 | Gnarfoz | imbecile |
| 22:57.27 | znf | ugly-face |
| 22:57.41 | Gnarfoz | cookie hater! |
| 22:57.52 | znf | pft, I like cookies |
| 22:58.03 | Gnarfoz | I switched from boon to seqr because boon operates pre-charged... have to top it up over and over (you can make it auto-top, but as long as you use CC for that, there's a fee... also, monthly fee. you can use wire transfer to top it up, but that takes a while) |
| 22:58.15 | znf | my bank tried one of those payment shits for mobile |
| 22:58.29 | znf | but their idea was to use a special phone case that worked only on iPhone 4 :D |
| 22:58.39 | znf | and for some reasosn you needed a special sim |
| 22:58.48 | Gnarfoz | seqr is more seamless (hah, that's the company's name >_>), can just give them a SEPA mandate so they can withdraw from my bank account |
| 22:59.11 | Gnarfoz | (which is not instantaneous, but still, way better.) |
| 22:59.13 | znf | aren't there fees for sepa payments? |
| 22:59.29 | Gnarfoz | no idea |
| 22:59.54 | znf | I'd really love to pay with my phone, but there's nothing here that is supported :( |
| 23:00.02 | Gnarfoz | yeah that's annoying |
| 23:00.18 | Gnarfoz | at least you have widespread CC acceptance? |
| 23:00.48 | znf | if by widespread you mean "down to paying the corner shop that sells bagels", then no |
| 23:00.59 | Gnarfoz | Germany's banking landscape is so annoying that apparently none of the big 3 even want to try |
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| 23:01.30 | Gnarfoz | but going via CC is getting more and more viable |
| 23:01.38 | znf | I pay most of my stuff with a card, but I can't stay for long without actual cash on me |
| 23:01.49 | znf | I must have the equivalent of ~50⬠in my wallet |
| 23:01.58 | znf | that's usually good for up to 2 weeks |
| 23:02.24 | nevcairiel | you still need cash around here, but as Gnarfoz' pointed out, card acceptance is on the rise. now even my bakery accepts cards =p |
| 23:02.35 | nevcairiel | my barber does not tho |
| 23:03.17 | znf | yup, same |
| 23:03.28 | Gnarfoz | opposite for me, bakery doesn't barber does! |
| 23:03.30 | nevcairiel | and various simple things dont, like paying the parking garage at the local cinema-complex, only takes cash |
| 23:03.40 | znf | places that offer just a service (not goods) don't usually accept card payments |
| 23:03.48 | Gnarfoz | they stopped taking Geldkarte in many places, which I just find infuriating |
| 23:03.59 | znf | except utilities |
| 23:03.59 | nevcairiel | i never used that |
| 23:04.16 | znf | couriers for example don't accept cards, that's annoying :-/ |
| 23:04.16 | Gnarfoz | it was great for public transit, parking meters, parking garages, stuff like that |
| 23:04.28 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girogo outdated, then? says "prepaid only" |
| 23:04.31 | nevcairiel | on that note for the cinema, the snack stand in there also only takes cash |
| 23:04.54 | znf | cinema takes card here |
| 23:05.01 | nevcairiel | "Bereits heute können Sie mit rund 45 Millionen Sparkassen-Cards Guthaben auf Ihre Karte laden und kontaktlos mit girogo bezahlen. Zusätzlich bieten zehn Millionen Sparkassen-Cards schon heute die girocard-kontaktlos-Funktion. Hier muss vorher kein Guthaben aufgeladen werden." |
| 23:05.04 | nevcairiel | from the sparkasse link above |
| 23:05.05 | znf | I pay online, go with the QR code instead of retrieving the ticket |
| 23:05.08 | nevcairiel | apparently thex just extended it |
| 23:05.13 | Gnarfoz | oh, I missed that |
| 23:05.30 | znf | but it's annoying that I have to pay extra for online payment for the ticket |
| 23:05.31 | nevcairiel | apparently they call it girocard-kontaktlos |
| 23:05.33 | znf | transaction fee :-/ |
| 23:05.53 | Gnarfoz | guess they burned the more accessible brand by making it prepaid only ;) |
| 23:06.02 | nevcairiel | didnt get its own logo on the card, other then the "beamy" symbol next to the chip |
| 23:06.15 | Gnarfoz | who'd have expected that, since that's essentially what prevented Geldkarte from ever being wildly popular |
| 23:06.37 | nevcairiel | i just got the new card a month ago or so |
| 23:07.03 | nevcairiel | apparently they also want to do smartphone |
| 23:07.32 | Gnarfoz | well, they have "yomo", but it's actually a separate account |
| 23:07.42 | Gnarfoz | (and it doesn't do anything useful, yet) |
| 23:08.08 | Gnarfoz | the big issue is the hugely fragmented banking landscape, everyone does their own thing |
| 23:08.12 | nevcairiel | well if they have a system for the girocard, a phone could presumably mimic that |
| 23:08.27 | Gnarfoz | true, yeah |
| 23:08.28 | nevcairiel | and kaufland at least accepts girocard-kontaktlos |
| 23:08.37 | nevcairiel | not sure i tried it a nywhere else |
| 23:09.19 | Gnarfoz | I'll have to wait until next card refresh (if Sparkasse Hannover even does that, then) |
| 23:10.05 | nevcairiel | mine would've expired at the end of the year, i wonder if you can ask them for a new one if such features become available |
| 23:10.48 | Gnarfoz | you can force it by saying you lost it or exposed your PIN |
| 23:10.54 | Gnarfoz | but then they want money for the replacement ^^ |
| 23:40.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Diao (vschiu@50.35.70.27) |
| 23:58.27 | Mr_Rabies | is there anything like prat that's still maintained? mostly just like the "sound on chat" and "move the editbox to the top of the window" features, at this point |
