| 00:21.45 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 00:21.45 | *** topic/#wowuidev is 7.2.x ToC: 70200 || http://pastebin.com || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 02:09.22 | karl_w_w | https://i.imgur.com/1lTUhDQ.jpg |
| 02:19.48 | kullervo | she's got that london look |
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| 03:29.27 | Stanzilla | https://i.imgur.com/G3bZJXd.png nice |
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| 03:39.23 | Torhal | assert(userName != "Stanzilla"); |
| 03:47.28 | Fisker | please Torhal |
| 03:47.43 | Fisker | The expression is clearly listed in the error |
| 03:47.49 | Torhal | I always try to please Torhal. |
| 03:48.13 | Torhal | That's just to throw Stanzilla off of the scent. |
| 03:49.29 | Fisker | gotta go work though :( |
| 03:49.38 | Torhal | Don't do it; totally not worth it. |
| 03:49.45 | Fisker | I know |
| 03:49.50 | Torhal | Just stay home and collect your monies. |
| 03:49.56 | Fisker | Doesn't work like that |
| 03:49.59 | Fisker | in b4 it does |
| 03:50.02 | Torhal | :O |
| 03:50.20 | Fisker | Give me a job at curse as resident cat lady and I'll stay at home and collect monies |
| 03:50.35 | Torhal | I have no jobs to give. And it's Cat Lord. |
| 03:50.39 | Fisker | I disagree |
| 03:50.47 | Torhal | You're evil, so I expected that. |
| 03:50.54 | Fisker | At this point they're just paying you to post cat pictures to slack right? |
| 03:51.15 | Torhal | I've made 100 commits in the past 8 days. |
| 03:51.20 | Torhal | Plus handled moderation. |
| 03:51.23 | Torhal | So no. |
| 03:51.33 | Fisker | making commits is easy |
| 03:51.39 | Torhal | ... |
| 03:51.41 | Fisker | I once made 800 commits in like a day |
| 03:51.45 | Torhal | stabs Fisker with a wheelbarrow. |
| 03:51.52 | Fisker | of course that was just a script doing housecleaning but still |
| 03:52.10 | Fisker | also to be fair I tend to amend all my commits into one anyway |
| 03:52.18 | Fisker | Unless it makes sense to seperate them |
| 03:52.29 | kd3 | eek |
| 03:52.32 | kd3 | commit early and often |
| 03:52.39 | Fisker | I do |
| 03:52.40 | Torhal | Commits should be atomic. |
| 03:52.56 | Torhal | Amending into one makes reverting a bad one impossible. Hello, hand-edits! |
| 03:53.48 | kd3 | looks like TGM is going to "win" the setup time award for the third time running |
| 03:54.23 | Fisker | I don't really need my commits to have multiple stages of brokenness to be reverted specifically to Torhal |
| 03:54.46 | Torhal | You're weird. |
| 03:54.52 | Torhal | Going back to working. |
| 03:55.00 | Fisker | o/ |
| 03:55.07 | Fisker | Going to be late for working |
| 03:56.46 | Fisker | I don't see the issue, I'm working on something, with many "intermediary" commits not being fully working, why would I want to revert to a commit that is specifically broken because I committed before going home? |
| 03:57.06 | Fisker | anyway work |
| 03:57.13 | Torhal | Oh, I generally don't do intermediary commits. |
| 04:07.42 | Fisker | Ah yeah, guess I should've mentioned I usually change branches a lot so it makes sense for me to commit even without finished stuff, in b4 shelve |
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| 04:10.27 | Torhal | ERMAGHERD. |
| 04:13.24 | Fisker | Plus work is weird |
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| 04:46.19 | Andols2 | Paid by commits. *I'm done with this line* *Commit* |
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| 07:02.34 | VIad | guild disband by weakaura :d |
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| 07:16.15 | AcidWeb | Additional points for triggering it with hydra shoot soaking. |
| 07:18.44 | Shockah|Work | i feel weird about the new Hearthstone expansion |
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| 08:12.31 | VIad | you can't apply rotate animation to the WorldFrame, it only affects nameplate/chat bubbles :p |
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| 10:17.44 | Gnarfoz | worldframe is a special snowflake. just like you. |
| 10:19.06 | haste | I didn't use nameplates for so many years because of the nice effect it had when you resized it |
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| 11:27.09 | kristina | hm. |
| 11:28.17 | kristina | i wonder how invite did their fridnly nameplate workaround, it looks very clean. |
| 11:30.16 | kristina | there's a bizzare way of getting forbidden nameplate positions but it's extremely messy, the fact that they just have it working cleanly seems odd. |
| 11:30.27 | nevcairiel | pre-7.2.5 probably with chat bubbles, post-7.2.5 likely with a hacked client (although thats not to be excluded pre-7.2.5 either) |
| 11:32.07 | kristina | weren't chat bubbles forbidden in 7.2 as well? |
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| 11:32.33 | nevcairiel | not fully |
| 11:33.44 | nevcairiel | their videos sure look like they are using a hacked client tho |
| 11:34.45 | kristina | i messed around with it in 7.2 and the only way i found actually required enabling blizz's friendly nameplates, you could get their positions by <redacted> and draw something on top. |
| 11:34.53 | nevcairiel | even if you could somehow get the position of friendly plates, you cant re-style them, which they clearly do |
| 11:37.55 | kristina | was interesting to see if it was possible to work around it but that's the only way i found and it's too much effort to then use that in addition to having side effects to doing it that way, which they certainly were not having in that video. |
| 11:39.32 | kristina | but apparently they didn't neuter the taint stuff. |
| 11:47.32 | nebula | what's the video? |
| 11:47.52 | kristina | but i think i know who did it and i wouldn't be surprised that with his background he'd find a loophole that actually provided for a clean workaround. |
| 11:48.51 | kristina | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km0LwtLEHgk |
| 11:49.09 | nebula | oh, them |
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| 12:17.44 | kristina | with an external program if you really really wanted a HUD you could do it noninvasively for most part, that would never picked up by warden and would be pretty clean. and wouldn't show up on your stream :P |
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| 12:46.31 | Simca_ | yeah i think blizzard may think twice before trying to restrict things arbitrarily with cameras/UI elements in the future, considering how things turned out. |
| 12:46.58 | Simca_ | the only impacted players were the casual audience, as the hardcore players use client hacks to bypass the restrictions |
| 12:47.06 | nebula | how it turned out? they eliminated like 90% of what they wanted to |
| 12:47.26 | Simca_ | but the only population they cared about forcing the changes is actively avoiding the changes |
| 12:47.33 | Simca_ | so it was a huge waste of time for them |
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| 12:48.13 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 12:48.17 | kristina | Simca_: hardcore players don't use client hacks, if that ever came public somehow, the guild's reputation would be tarnished forever if you're talking about guilds in the top 10 race. |
| 12:48.19 | nebula | not really, a russian guild with a history of shady shit is avoiding the restrictions |
| 12:48.34 | Bluspacecow | hihihihihihihhihihihihi |
| 12:48.49 | Simca_ | it's suspected that a lot more guilds than just them are avoiding them |
| 12:49.04 | kristina | nebula: they're not using a client hack supposedly. |
| 12:49.44 | nebula | i didn't say they were |
| 12:51.43 | Simca_ | client hacks, dll injection, or some type of overlay. same difference |
| 12:51.44 | nebula | blizzard wanted to get rid of the whole radar addon thing, and they mostly did. if a few extremely competitive guilds find ways to circumvent their measures, such is life |
| 12:51.46 | kristina | there are still workarounds for getting friendly nameplates positions, i found one for example, it doesn't look like they're doing it that way since it's not all a giant fucking mess, i just wrote a simple proof of concept that got the positions of them inside a raid, nothing else. |
| 12:52.24 | nebula | if any of that shit goes public, blizzard still stop it so /shrug |
| 12:52.49 | kristina | nebula: there's also a way to circumvent that, bug in blizzard's interface code, it's convoluted and only lets you get your own position, but you can sendaddonmessage and basically build a mesh of everyone in the raid and now you basically have old position apis back. |
| 12:53.26 | nebula | yea, that shit doesn't work very well, i worked on that with a few people when unitposition was initially removed |
| 12:53.40 | kristina | it's not trilateration based. |
| 12:53.43 | nebula | the ~5yd variance pretty much ruins it |
| 12:53.57 | kristina | it gets your real position. |
| 12:54.55 | nebula | well point is, there will always be a "dark side" doing shit that isn't intended, but it's not used by the masses so who cares |
| 12:56.28 | kristina | well no i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one who knows about it, would never share it with my guild though, not really a point considering it'll leak and then it'll get fixed. |
| 12:57.37 | kristina | i mostly mess around with this stuff out of curiosity, not really because i want to bypass restrictions, if a proof of concept works, it's good enough, i don't like "cheating". |
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| 13:15.57 | nevcairiel | nebula: those guilds are arrogant/stupid enough to release videos of them using this, i would hope blizzard just bans them |
| 13:17.17 | nebula | nevcairiel: i agree |
| 13:18.10 | kristina | it's discretionary to blizzard what they do. |
| 13:18.34 | nevcairiel | that means nothing |
| 13:18.47 | nebula | obviously |
| 13:18.55 | nevcairiel | they could ban every active player if they wanted to, they have the right |
| 13:18.58 | nebula | i think in the end they probably won't do anything unless there is something on their end they can use as evidence |
| 13:19.01 | nevcairiel | or they could let everyone do whatever |
| 13:19.05 | kristina | if who i think it was, found a workaround the nameplate restrictions, they may force the guild to disclose how or be banned. |
| 13:19.06 | nevcairiel | but neither dont make sense |
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| 13:20.16 | Mr_Rabies | blizzard generally doesn't work on those terms, they'll just temp ban them and find out on their own most likely, longer ban if there's a history there |
| 13:20.21 | Andols | I managed to completely fix the radar and get unit position for the player with a few yards margin. VIad mentioned something once that gave me a idea. But that this is fixed now.. |
| 13:20.37 | kristina | Andols: how? trilat? |
| 13:21.01 | Andols | Abuse of unitpositionframr |
| 13:21.15 | kristina | or by abusing a bug in blizz's secure interface code. |
| 13:21.29 | kristina | oh that's not what i was thinking of. |
| 13:21.50 | nevcairiel | if there is even a couple yards of differences, its rather pointless for raid use, though |
| 13:22.34 | nevcairiel | not that any of the fights really require this anyhow, its not like star augur or whatever |
| 13:22.34 | kristina | i don't know if the bug i found is still there in 7.2.5, haven't tested it. |
| 13:24.09 | nevcairiel | the "race" has always been meaningless anyway, even mroe so if it comes down who can exploit the most and get away with it, instead of actually showing skill |
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| 13:25.13 | nevcairiel | or at the least who can nolife the hardest, since noone compares actual play time, just real-time |
| 13:25.48 | kristina | Mr_Rabies: it's kind of a grey area though, it's clearly unintended but if (or so i heard) they're not using third party tools for it's not so bad. |
| 13:26.44 | nebula | it's deliberately circumventing restrictions, i wouldn't call it grey area |
| 13:27.04 | nevcairiel | yeah blizzard has made it quite clear what they dont want addons to do |
| 13:28.12 | nevcairiel | and using bugs to circumvent these restrictions is obviously unwanted |
| 13:28.44 | kristina | on the other hand blizzard has several options, work out how they managed it by themselves (they could send a warden payload to gather that info specifically to that guild, but blizzard is super lazy with warden and iirc never used it that way) or ask them to hand over whatever method they used to acheive it. |
| 13:29.24 | kristina | well my method of getting positions of unit frames isn't a bug either. |
| 13:29.50 | nebula | or they could just not waste any time on it until it becomes a real problem in the community |
| 13:30.16 | nevcairiel | yeah 99% of all players dont even care what some russian guilds exploit anyway |
| 13:30.26 | kristina | they're 3/9 i mean. |
| 13:30.42 | kristina | yeah no one cares. |
| 13:31.09 | nevcairiel | like I said earlier, its not like ToS has fights with such exact position requirements like for example star augur had |
| 13:31.29 | kristina | blizzard might, since now there's a reason to look for a cleaner way of doing it since it's possible. |
| 13:32.01 | kristina | (again assuming they didn't just neuter the taint stuff) |
| 13:32.02 | nevcairiel | the invite video still looks like a client hack to me, since its not only overlays but quite clearly also modified nameplates |
| 13:32.45 | kristina | nevcairiel: yes that's why i said it's distinct and a lot more polished than my proof of concept that relied on something completely different. |
| 13:38.07 | kristina | but as i said, if the person who found the way and then implemented is who i think he is, i would not be surprised at all that it was done without neutering tainting. |
| 13:41.55 | kristina | but from the looks of it this has to be a flat out bug in the implementation of some aspects of forbidden frames for it to work this way, but again, WoW is plagued with a lot of bugs and warts. |
| 13:43.30 | kristina | like you can reliably crash the game from an addon in several ways on latest 64 bit wow on windows. |
| 13:47.20 | Andols | Invite video? |
| 13:47.48 | kristina | heck if someone was commited enough i'm pretty sure there are bugs severe enough that could allow an addon to do something as horrid as, through careful preparation, cause WoW to write/increment a value it wasn't supposed to, and work from there, there's a lot of APIs, a lot of bugs and a large attack surface. |
| 13:48.02 | nebula | kristina: if you want to document them and show TheDanW he may get them fixed :p |
| 13:48.09 | Andols | The thing I found was thing that Blizzard (we blame Guill) did not think about |
| 13:48.32 | nevcairiel | Andols: https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8/%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%82 |
| 13:49.02 | kristina | i mean the lua parser itself is solid but i don't think anyone really looked at wow from a security perspective in the past even. |
| 13:52.23 | kristina | would be a fun presentation for a security conference if someone actually managed to exploit wow to a point of not just crashing but actually executing arbitrary native code. |
| 13:52.40 | VIad | these days world first kills are about split farming gear because bosses are tuned to be borderline impossible, lack of "good luck" = wipe in many cases |
| 13:52.59 | VIad | the world first kills are skilled players but what stops them is the numbers mainly :D |
| 13:53.19 | nevcairiel | bosses are not tuned to be "impossible", bosses are tuend for you to have gear from the raid you are doing, but those guilds dont want to wait for normal gear to arrive |
| 13:56.40 | kristina | think of how much effort projects like chromium put into security and isolation of the execution environment for JS code, obviously V8 is a lot more complicated than Lua and i mean the attack surface is orders and orders of magnitudes greater and yet there were multiple instances of that being broken. wow doesn't really go to nearly such extremes but has a smaller (but still significant attack surface). |
| 13:57.11 | nevcairiel | the big difference is that chromes primary purpose is to access unvalidated foreign content |
| 13:57.20 | VIad | exploits of the lua env gets fixed and everyone involved gets banned :d |
| 13:57.43 | kristina | i'm talking about doing it from an addon. |
| 13:57.54 | kristina | addons are untrusted. |
| 13:58.25 | VIad | blizz has added instance restrictions so its not far away from having "prestine" instance environments where no addons even load :p |
| 13:58.32 | VIad | just saying |
| 13:58.58 | nebula | i'd say it's actually pretty fucking far from that happening |
| 13:59.12 | VIad | technically I bet they could do that in a month of coding |
| 13:59.22 | VIad | or less, just separate lua env when you enter the instance ^^ |
| 14:00.03 | Shockah|Work | just disable all addons temporarily when entering instance |
| 14:00.20 | nevcairiel | if you disable addons in such a key area of the game, they might as well remove addon support entirely |
| 14:00.22 | VIad | literally the easier approach, probably doable in a weeks hotfix |
| 14:00.25 | Shockah|Work | and possibly disable /run commands etc |
| 14:00.36 | VIad | if addon exploiting is a issue or a problem that they can't fix :p |
| 14:00.41 | VIad | would be the easy way out |
| 14:01.18 | Simca_ | let's just disable custom keybinds and extra action bars, make everybody have to hit hard to reach buttons by first cycling through action bars with shift-scroll-wheel |
| 14:01.23 | Simca_ | these are all good ideas |
| 14:01.30 | Simca_ | please never dev for blizzard |
| 14:01.43 | nevcairiel | (or anyone) |
| 14:02.04 | VIad | ideally wtb secure templates to be able to replace the default UI without taint issues/action blocking |
| 14:02.49 | nevcairiel | we have those, taint happens because people typically overreach what those templates offer on functionality |
| 14:02.52 | nebula | there...are? you can literally replace the entire ui |
| 14:02.55 | kristina | if an addon can glitch wow into say, doing anything that eventually, leads to writing arbitrary values to the stack (lua leaks a lot of addresses through userdata so it makes it easier to find where things are loaded at runtime, where allocated memory regions are etc), considering you'd have to get around NX, you could write a ROP chain to eventually execute your native payload (i think warden loader |
| 14:02.55 | kristina | makes it even easier since it provides a nice interface for loading code and adjusting memory permissions all by itself) |
| 14:03.04 | nebula | except the minimap now, i suppose |
| 14:03.08 | VIad | can't skin the friendly nameplates or chat bubbles in instances :P |
| 14:03.18 | VIad | so I'd argue we lack secure templates for those features |
| 14:03.34 | nevcairiel | kristina: even if you know any address, you cant dereference it from lua |
| 14:04.05 | kristina | nevcairiel: re-read what i said. |
| 14:04.24 | kristina | userdata just leaks information. |
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| 14:04.59 | nevcairiel | and the point is, you cant do anything with that information from within Lua alone |
| 14:05.00 | VIad | only place I've seen userdata is on widgets :p |
| 14:05.14 | VIad | and I dont even think you can do anything with that object |
| 14:06.40 | kristina | nevcairiel: well technically you may be able to, again, wow is not 100% bug free, i'm sure there is at least one exploit that could allow you to write data to some unintended address in memory, and then you kind of go from there. |
| 14:06.44 | foxlit | but if you can trick the warden into thinking she is santa claus and it is christmas, the sky might turn purple with green dots! |
| 14:07.12 | VIad | the only way you write data is via API blizz provides |
| 14:07.24 | VIad | it's not like we have a stdout we can just push out binary :p |
| 14:07.29 | VIad | and exploit some weird weakness |
| 14:07.36 | nevcairiel | Lua is pretty self-contained, you might be able to get some broken API to write somewhere, but you cant give it a address or something, since that entire concept is foreign to Lua |
| 14:08.13 | VIad | I have seen buggy API running from secure environment that did allow you to execute any kind of lua code in the secure environment back in wrath |
| 14:08.18 | VIad | but it was fixed and banwaves went out :D |
| 14:08.34 | VIad | haven't seen anything like that since, it was back when new secure templates got added I think |
| 14:08.44 | kristina | nevcairiel: the lua interpreter is well written but wow has so many APIs, you may be able to put a game in a state where it would, unintentionally, write some value to where it wasn't supposed to go, if you have some control over that, well, it gets worse from there. |
| 14:09.40 | nevcairiel | and you might be able to get a pink unicorn by running into a wall all day, but that doesn't mean it'll happen =p |
| 14:10.40 | kristina | yes except software exploits can be bootstraped from far less, let alone a runtime where you can exeucte lua code and a ton of APIs. |
| 14:10.52 | nevcairiel | unless the Lua interpreter itself has a bug to facilitate that, its pretty much blocking low e ough access to do something effective |
| 14:10.54 | nebula | so what you're saying is....it's possible |
| 14:11.30 | VIad | meh, the most exploits these days is like weakauras that add a bunch of toy distance checks to try calculate ranges :P |
| 14:11.40 | kristina | i meant a real explot. |
| 14:11.43 | kristina | exploit* |
| 14:11.47 | kristina | not a game exploit. |
| 14:12.08 | kristina | an actual exploit that leads to native code being executed eventually. |
| 14:12.11 | VIad | exploiting from the outside is probably easier than from the inside, warden monitors both either way I reckon |
| 14:12.17 | foxlit | nebula: you might even get it ti happen by carefully timing your jumps to trade chat in Dalaran! |
| 14:12.25 | nebula | :o |
| 14:13.59 | Shockah|Work | inb4 they make those toy distance APIs require you to have the toys in question |
| 14:14.16 | kristina | VIad: warden doesn't give a shit about that kinds of exploits, let me explain. |
| 14:14.16 | VIad | oh, they dont even require you to have them these days to use the range checks? |
| 14:14.24 | Shockah|Work | i don't know, do they/ |
| 14:14.39 | Shockah|Work | would be weird if they did require you to have those |
| 14:14.49 | VIad | as I told you my wrath story, people exploited lua from within and at some point blizz patched and warden started monitoring those abusing the exploit for a later banwave |
| 14:14.58 | kristina | say, if you made a series of seemingly unrelated API calls with garbage looking values from Lua and suddenly your game crashes. |
| 14:15.10 | VIad | Shockah|Work: I'd assume the API to "CanUseToy(i)" would require you to own it first :o |
| 14:15.25 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.173) |
| 14:15.43 | nebula | Shockah|Work: if they cared they'd just restrict the the api in instances |
| 14:15.59 | VIad | I think they will if people use weakauras to help do mechanics |
| 14:16.12 | nebula | we asked about it when they restricted the apis, and they said it was fine |
| 14:16.13 | VIad | if some fight that toy range checks helps make some mechanic trivial/easier |
| 14:16.28 | VIad | probably based on the fights they have in game atm |
| 14:16.36 | nebula | they just wanted to get rid of radar shit |
| 14:17.08 | Shockah|Work | why not just add a function returning the players in specific range then |
| 14:17.10 | VIad | inb4 addon channel triangulation of a ton of in/out range checks from people to map out cirka distances :D |
| 14:17.37 | Shockah|Work | i... don't think you have enough information to calculate positions from range checks |
| 14:17.37 | nebula | there is, it's 5/8/11/15/30/40 yards :p |
| 14:18.02 | kristina | anyway, i'm surprised exploitation of WoW itself isn't brought up more often. |
| 14:18.16 | kristina | it's an interesting security topic. |
| 14:18.30 | Shockah|Work | even if you knew the range from each player to every other player, there could be multiple ways they could all be positioned, right? |
| 14:18.31 | nebula | it was included in the snowden files, cia looked at exploiting it |
| 14:18.40 | VIad | ofc shock |
| 14:18.49 | VIad | but it would allow for some sort of grid :d |
| 14:18.53 | Shockah|Work | eh |
| 14:18.58 | nevcairiel | pure local exploits that require installing something first arent all that interesting anyway |
| 14:19.11 | VIad | a simple weakaura shared among everyone though |
| 14:19.43 | VIad | dunno if addon channel can manage too frequent traffic |
| 14:19.48 | VIad | I guess thats the only limiting factor |
| 14:19.54 | nebula | VIad: scroll up, we talked about that |
| 14:19.57 | VIad | ah ok |
| 14:20.29 | VIad | we dont often talk about exploits here because its a fan site and blizz dont like it having official fan sites talk exploits :p |
| 14:20.30 | kristina | nevcairiel: so you install an addon that then, through an exploit runs a native payload within the wow process, that has the credentials of the user that launched it, and suddenly it can do anything any random binary launched by you could. |
| 14:20.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Kinesia1 (~Kinesia@e8.63.01a8.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com) |
| 14:20.59 | VIad | that gap kris is so huge :p |
| 14:21.02 | *** join/#wowuidev ls-pc (~lspc@180.183.190.39) |
| 14:21.14 | VIad | "install the weakaura and through an exploit your machine starts installing linux" |
| 14:22.05 | kristina | what i said is a really simplified view. |
| 14:22.05 | nevcairiel | kristina: like i said, not very interesting |
| 14:22.31 | nevcairiel | its probably easier to get people to click on an email =p |
| 14:22.42 | kristina | nevcairiel: so like, downloading another binary from somewhere else, adding it to autorun for your local user, etc, not very interesting? |
| 14:22.49 | VIad | I'd like to think I helped change the in-game help interface, but I fear blizz had plans to make a webproxy all along :( |
| 14:22.58 | nevcairiel | kristina: not particularly, no |
| 14:22.59 | kristina | security is interesting. |
| 14:23.08 | kristina | to me at least. |
| 14:23.38 | VIad | sure, but at that stage you probably broke the OS as well |
| 14:23.38 | nevcairiel | should not run any software to be safe then :) |
| 14:24.43 | VIad | the road to exploit lua to break the game from within is large enough hurdle that anything post that I don't even think is worth considering at this point :p |
| 14:25.05 | nevcairiel | more interesting would be the questions how this malicious code got onto the users system in the first place, did known addons suddenly turn bad? did someone hack into distribution websites? otherwise getting people do intentionally install something unknown that includes this is the same as just sendimg them an email with a hack, so not very interesting |
| 14:25.28 | VIad | can always dream of what things you could do, but fact is still breaking the lua from its own environment with the limited API blizz has full control over, yeah |
| 14:26.19 | VIad | will warden let you run wow under debugging mode in visual studio? |
| 14:26.33 | VIad | just curious how much you can peak into the process, like a debugger, until warden bans you :p |
| 14:27.00 | VIad | reverse engineering for the sake of compatilbility with other systems is allowed in some countries, but I'd suspect warden don't give AF ofc |
| 14:27.28 | kristina | sw breakpoints will usually not trip warden unless you drop one in a region it does check. |
| 14:27.37 | kristina | hw breakpoints are invisible to warden. |
| 14:27.43 | VIad | also unsure how debugging tools like, work in terms of how warden does |
| 14:27.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@88.131.62.38) |
| 14:27.56 | kristina | sw breakpoints will patch the process |
| 14:28.04 | kristina | to cause it to trap |
| 14:28.13 | kristina | instead of executing the instr |
| 14:28.32 | VIad | I guess warden just sees that as tampering with its memory space |
| 14:28.42 | VIad | regardless if visual studio debugger does it orn ot :d |
| 14:28.56 | kristina | well there's a lot of cool things you can do to stop it from thinking you tampered with anything. |
| 14:30.23 | kristina | unless there are timing checks, you can set software breakpoints without tripping off warden. |
| 14:30.31 | kristina | even if it does checksum the region. |
| 14:30.52 | VIad | I doubt visual studio debugging tools have such features, since you often debug your own code to begin with :d |
| 14:31.01 | VIad | but if wow crashes it can ask me to fire up my debugger.... |
| 14:31.07 | VIad | that can be a bit scary :p |
| 14:31.19 | kristina | i'm not talking about normal debugging tools. |
| 14:31.29 | kristina | okay let me explain a non hw breakpoint way. |
| 14:31.30 | VIad | well I was, since they are more common. |
| 14:32.18 | kristina | say we attach to the process, we set NX on the page we want a breakpoint on. |
| 14:32.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Bluspacecow (~Bluspacec@121.98.42.126) |
| 14:32.35 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 14:34.06 | kristina | WoW runs, it hits the NS page, i'll explain in OSX/Mach terms since i'm more familiar with those, because you're debugging it, that thread in WoW will stop, a message will fire to the debugger telling it the inferior has trapped because of a protection fault. |
| 14:34.12 | kristina | NX* |
| 14:35.03 | kristina | oh wait x86 has R/W faults too, that makes it easier even. |
| 14:35.29 | VIad | you can use what ever words you want bro, think of me like the pesant in this channel. |
| 14:35.47 | VIad | you're talking about wine tastes and cheeses with someone that eats pig ass and sour cream. |
| 14:36.02 | kristina | uhh, what i meant is, you can have a page trap if it's executed and/or read and/or written to. |
| 14:36.13 | kristina | yeah that's it actually. |
| 14:36.39 | kristina | when anything tries to read the page, the inferior will immediatedly stop due to a protection fault. |
| 14:37.17 | kristina | you undo your changes to the page, resume the faulting thread. |
| 14:38.00 | kristina | so warden has read out what it expected to read. |
| 14:38.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kurapica (~Kurapica@114.93.239.110) |
| 14:39.20 | kristina | you can then restore the page to the patched state. |
| 14:39.32 | VIad | nev doesnt seem entertained sadly |
| 14:39.49 | Bluspacecow | *dances in front of nev* |
| 14:39.52 | Bluspacecow | how about now ? |
| 14:40.09 | nevcairiel | i prefer earth cows |
| 14:40.19 | VIad | too bad, you only got blue cows |
| 14:40.21 | nevcairiel | so yummy |
| 14:40.29 | Bluspacecow | gasp! |
| 14:40.33 | Bluspacecow | no eating me! |
| 14:40.44 | kristina | anyway, so yeah, even if you didn't have hw breakpoints, you can still set invisible sw breakpoints like that. |
| 14:41.16 | kristina | obviously you also make sure you trap the call that gets the memory protection state for a page. |
| 14:41.19 | kristina | just incase. |
| 14:41.32 | VIad | Bluspacecow face of disapointment https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/204269659459944448/332269629424795659/unknown.png |
| 14:42.17 | Bluspacecow | @Vlad are you pooping ? |
| 14:42.26 | VIad | I really like that face, so judgemental |
| 14:42.32 | VIad | I can if you want me to |
| 14:42.37 | VIad | I have the hardware for it |
| 14:42.49 | Bluspacecow | just saying thats a pooping face |
| 14:43.01 | Thunder_Child | I think that's subjective. |
| 14:43.05 | VIad | do you notice something else in that picture? |
| 14:43.07 | kristina | so if warden tries to ensure pages are R+X, it makes the appropriate call, you get to handle it instead in which case if it's for any of the pages you fucked with, you return the value it had before you changed the protection settings. |
| 14:43.23 | Thunder_Child | I mean, that could be someones O face. |
| 14:43.37 | VIad | there is someone else in that frame |
| 14:43.45 | VIad | that I didn't notice before :p |
| 14:43.50 | kristina | so live debugging wow isn't really an issue at all. |
| 14:44.09 | Bluspacecow | oh god Thunder_Child ... you mean the troll is ..... |
| 14:44.38 | Thunder_Child | Could be. Could be. |
| 14:44.50 | Bluspacecow | #ineedanadult |
| 14:45.03 | VIad | he is right behind you in that picture |
| 14:49.56 | VIad | #brbIneedfood |
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| 14:51.20 | kristina | in either case warden is complete crap and pretty much relies on the fact that they can push out any binary modules at any time that can do anything so they're kind of one step ahead in one regard. |
| 15:43.01 | Bluspacecow | hmmmm |
| 15:43.08 | Bluspacecow | D3 beta folder - keep or throw ? |
| 15:46.56 | Maldivia | Kill it with fire! |
| 15:46.58 | Maldivia | :D |
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| 16:31.01 | nevcairiel | they'll probably just use it for the ptr again next patch, so might as well keep it |
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| 20:15.09 | *** join/#wowuidev TheUglything (~TheUglyTh@214.94.122.78.rev.sfr.net) |
| 20:16.36 | TheUglything | hi there, is there a place where I can access an updated and commented WoW API? (wowprogramming used to be my first choice but it hasn't been updated for a while) |
| 20:17.21 | TheUglything | I'm actually looking for the C_ArtifactUI functions |
| 20:17.22 | eke00372 | i use this: https://www.townlong-yak.com/ with wowprogramming |
| 20:17.32 | TheUglything | ah let me check |
| 20:17.58 | nevcairiel | you are in luck, C_ArtifactUI is somewhat documented by blizzard themself |
| 20:18.00 | nevcairiel | https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/live/Blizzard_APIDocumentation |
| 20:19.13 | TheUglything | perfect! thanks a lot |
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| 21:07.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@c-73-91-72-144.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.51 | Semlar | neffi who thought it would be a good idea to design a door that lets you open it from the inside while it's locked |
| 21:08.17 | nevcairiel | its an escape door |
| 21:08.21 | Semlar | i'm just waiting to lock myself out of this place |
| 21:08.47 | Semlar | i have to double check that i can turn the knob from the outside every time i open the door |
| 21:08.50 | TheDanW | TheUglything: most new api can also be browsed ingame with the /api command, for example /api search artifact |
| 21:09.43 | Semlar | yeah i guess if the house is on fire it would be convenient |
| 21:10.23 | Semlar | on the other hand, the house is hardly ever on fire, and i open the door all the time |
| 21:10.45 | Semlar | so i'm not sure whether it's worth the trade off |
| 21:11.15 | TheDanW | oh he left, reading is hard |
| 21:12.04 | Semlar | were you adding all the cvars as an addon with the next patch? |
| 21:12.36 | Semlar | i saw something about a console in 7.3 |
| 21:13.06 | TheDanW | yeah, you can enable it with the standard -console switch then changing the "usenewconsole" cvar to 1 |
| 21:13.11 | TheDanW | there's some API |
| 21:13.24 | Semlar | so it won't be accessible directly without enabling it with the flag? |
| 21:13.25 | TheDanW | under C_Console |
| 21:13.43 | Semlar | i was just wondering if my addon would be able to hook into it to get a list of cvars |
| 21:13.51 | TheDanW | you can |
| 21:14.01 | TheDanW | C_Console.GetAllCommands() |
| 21:14.13 | TheDanW | the API works regardless of the switch |
| 21:14.13 | Semlar | oh right so there's an api command for the addon |
| 21:14.20 | Semlar | it's not just hard coded, that makes sense |
| 21:14.35 | TheDanW | to actually use the console its really intended to enable it by the switch |
| 21:14.48 | TheDanW | but i'm sure you can find creative solutions to that if desired |
| 21:15.10 | Semlar | yeah i have a cvar browser built into Advanced Interface Options, and it's super inconvenient to update the list of cvars |
| 21:15.40 | Semlar | so a new api for it would be nice |
| 21:16.09 | Torhal | Hey, Semlar - I thought you were working on TypeLua. |
| 21:16.13 | Semlar | do you know if it's the full list or like an abbreviated version of it |
| 21:16.44 | Semlar | what is typelua |
| 21:17.05 | Torhal | The thing I just decided I thought you were working on. |
| 21:17.12 | Torhal | Typed Lua, transpiles to actual Lua. |
| 21:17.46 | Semlar | no i'm currently working on house-sitting for my dad while he's out of town |
| 21:17.55 | TheDanW | its the full list |
| 21:18.01 | Torhal | Seems more like you're talking WoW API on IRC. |
| 21:18.14 | Semlar | i'm never driving to sarasota in a car without air conditioning again |
| 21:18.23 | Torhal | So you're saying I should task Neffi with this language's creation and implementation? |
| 21:18.26 | TheDanW | it has a type on it that differentiates between commands and cvars |
| 21:18.42 | Torhal | Dude. Florida without A/C? You're a madman. |
| 21:18.54 | Semlar | it wasn't so bad until every window in my car stopped working |
| 21:19.15 | Torhal | When I lived in New Orleans, I had visitors from New York state, and their car didn't even have an A/C unit from the factory. |
| 21:19.18 | Semlar | now it's basically a death trap |
| 21:20.28 | Torhal | Just drill venti8lation holes in your floorboards. The updraft will help! |
| 21:20.36 | Semlar | thanks TheDanW, it was always annoying that there was a built in console with all the cvars but you couldn't call the help function for it from the api |
| 21:20.41 | Torhal | Er... ventilation. No idea how I typed that. |
| 21:21.15 | Infus | TheDanW: are there any known bugs with anchoring on 7.2.5? or were all known issues fixed? |
| 21:21.26 | Semlar | ironically, even though the a/c itself doesn't work i can't turn the fans completely off because the switch is broken |
| 21:21.27 | Infus | currently investigating a bug that looks like a wow bug (again) |
| 21:21.36 | Semlar | so it's always blowing hot air around |
| 21:21.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Primer (~daniel@ceregatti.org) |
| 21:21.45 | nevcairiel | Semlar: your car is totally messed up |
| 21:21.52 | Semlar | i think i might need a new car |
| 21:22.01 | nevcairiel | also, moving air is usually better then not moving air, anyhow |
| 21:22.03 | Semlar | did i tell you about my tire exploding |
| 21:22.10 | Torhal | Is this the Biome Car� |
| 21:22.41 | Semlar | yeah it still leaks |
| 21:22.55 | Semlar | funny how it hasn't miraculously stopped leaking |
| 21:23.00 | Torhal | I bet you could make yogurt in it. |
| 21:23.28 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.48 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.15 | Semlar | this is from a blowout on the highway |
| 21:25.13 | Gethe | Infus: I've noticed while updating Aurora that certain frames aren't sized the same way on PTR http://imgur.com/ZnNhdLV |
| 21:25.42 | Semlar | which was actually from some defect with the tire and not poor maintenance |
| 21:25.50 | Semlar | i'm pretty sure my car is cursed |
| 21:25.59 | TheDanW | Infus: i wouldn't be surprised if there were some, but they're infrequent and usually relate to fontstrings; performance is the main concern |
| 21:26.22 | Gethe | also lines seem to show up sporadically |
| 21:26.33 | Torhal | Semlar: I have you beat - https://twitter.com/_Torhal_/status/684831357680398336 |
| 21:26.51 | Semlar | you have a torhal vanity plate? |
| 21:26.59 | Gethe | though the lines i make are fairly thin, but they show up fine on Live |
| 21:27.03 | Torhal | No... why do you ask? |
| 21:27.05 | TheDanW | Gethe: lines weren't properly taking into account scale, that has been fixed - you probably need to apply an inverse scale now |
| 21:27.06 | Torhal | >.> |
| 21:27.18 | Semlar | you need one that says 9CATS |
| 21:27.24 | Gethe | it still happens, http://imgur.com/ZnNhdLV |
| 21:27.27 | Semlar | wait how many cats do you have |
| 21:27.35 | Torhal | No, Semlar - double the nuimber and you might have a deal. |
| 21:27.41 | Semlar | oh god |
| 21:27.48 | Gethe | those two are from the same code TheDanW |
| 21:27.53 | TheDanW | i don't see a problem |
| 21:28.01 | Torhal | Semlar: https://twitter.com/_Torhal_/status/729112801751539712 |
| 21:28.04 | TheDanW | unless you're using 1:1 scale |
| 21:28.05 | Gethe | the X is missing |
| 21:28.11 | Semlar | that's too many cats torhal |
| 21:28.16 | Torhal | Naw. |
| 21:28.23 | Infus | what I'm seeing is more that some frames end up not anchored to where they should be. Might also be a bug in my code. |
| 21:28.27 | Torhal | My Roomba does just fine. |
| 21:28.33 | TheDanW | Gethe: put the code somewhere and i'll double check |
| 21:29.11 | TheDanW | Infus: i'm not aware of any bugs that would do that |
| 21:29.16 | Semlar | do you ever have to get someone to cat-sit for you while you're out of town or something |
| 21:29.30 | TheDanW | Infus: they should always get resolved eventually |
| 21:29.33 | Infus | okay thanks, I'll see if I can figure it out |
| 21:29.55 | Torhal | Semlar: We don't take joint vacations. |
| 21:30.02 | Torhal | She has her months to visit family, I have mine. |
| 21:30.22 | Semlar | do the cats ever take vacations |
| 21:30.34 | Torhal | Their _life_ is a vacation. |
| 21:30.56 | Semlar | it seems like you could harness all of this cat power for something |
| 21:31.01 | Torhal | All of the cats in that picture are related, BTW. |
| 21:31.21 | Torhal | Neffi is under the impression that I could take over a small country. |
| 21:31.34 | nevcairiel | you probably could |
| 21:32.31 | Thunder_Child | Actually, I think all those cats represent a small country, |
| 21:32.46 | Thunder_Child | s/ry,/ry./ |
| 21:32.47 | Neffi | you mean you haven't already, Torhal? |
| 21:32.56 | Semlar | i got to watch someone get in a wreck on the interstate on my way down here |
| 21:33.01 | Torhal | I don't let them outside, Neffi. If I did... |
| 21:33.14 | Semlar | thankfully they were going the other direction |
| 21:33.48 | Semlar | and not on my half |
| 21:35.59 | Semlar | there was an extremely loud crunch and i saw a large lime green suv swerving sideways across two lanes |
| 21:36.22 | *** join/#wowuidev cogwheel (~cogwheel@WoWUIDev/WoWProgramming/morlando/cogwheel) |
| 21:36.25 | Semlar | i'm not sure what happened, but it didn't look good |
| 21:39.11 | Gethe | TheDanW: https://hastebin.com/ahacuficik.lua |
| 21:40.13 | Gethe | i saw it first on the pet stable frame, since that was what i was working on at the time, but the lines will disapear for other frames too depending on where they get placed. |
| 21:40.30 | Gethe | this does not occur on live |
| 21:47.37 | Torhal | Gethe: Hey - sorry for not being around to resolve the code issue. I was working every day for six months, then burnout occurred. Are you still using the library? |
| 21:48.06 | Gethe | yeah |
| 21:49.41 | Gethe | Torhal: i made a new issue on it, since the original got lost in the transition |
| 21:51.04 | Torhal | :/ |
| 21:51.30 | foxlit | Infus: your issue reporting template has a bug. |
| 21:51.36 | Torhal | I'll try to get stuff resolved this weekend. |
| 21:51.45 | Gethe | k |
| 21:51.46 | foxlit | Telling people to "/run scriptErrors 1" is somewhat ironic . |
| 21:52.29 | Infus | Stanzilla: ^^ |
| 21:52.58 | Stanzilla | :( |
| 21:53.09 | Stanzilla | I already fixed that on Github |
| 21:53.10 | Stanzilla | forgot curse |
| 21:53.23 | Infus | we blame curse, we lost our template when they switched to the new system |
| 21:53.29 | Infus | no one complained so far :) |
| 21:58.11 | Simca_ | oh my god, i nearly died of laughter |
| 21:58.38 | Simca_ | item/objectcomponents/cape/cape_mail_legiondungeon_c_03darkpurplelong.blp |
| 21:58.44 | Simca_ | item/objectcomponents/cape/cape_mail_legiondungeon_c_03darkpurplemedium.blp |
| 21:58.49 | Simca_ | and then an UNK filename |
| 21:59.07 | Simca_ | apparently, it wasn't 'short', so I suggested trying 'shirt' or 'shurt'. didn't work. |
| 21:59.17 | Simca_ | bruteforced it |
| 21:59.33 | Simca_ | curr: item\objectcomponents\cape\cape_mail_legiondungeon_c_03darkpurple?????.blp / trials: 11881376 |
| 21:59.33 | Simca_ | 1/11881376 found (100.00% complete) |
| 21:59.40 | Simca_ | item\objectcomponents\cape\cape_mail_legiondungeon_c_03darkpurpleSHOUT.blp |
| 21:59.55 | Simca_ | blizzard, thank you for spelling. you always provide laughs. |
| 22:00.01 | Alram | :> |
| 22:01.00 | schlumpf | classic blizard |
| 22:01.02 | foxlit | Not long now until there are no more filenames, Simca_. |
| 22:01.03 | Semlar | hacks, simca |
| 22:01.07 | foxlit | How will you amuse yourself then? :P |
| 22:01.20 | Semlar | easier to brute-force, really |
| 22:01.21 | Alram | there will always be filenames! |
| 22:01.28 | Alram | just much harder to find :( |
| 22:01.34 | Torhal | removes Star Trek: Discovery from Alram's sight for the next two years. |
| 22:02.29 | Alram | i hope someone hits your rental :( |
| 22:03.03 | schlumpf | I do think that at some point they will remove jenkins completely, but we're far from that. x7 will get rid of stuff non-optionally in adts and probably wmos and shaders, yet probably maps will be unchanged since it is too much of a pain with 64*64*by now 7? file table, which is meh compared to querying existence of patterns by file |
| 22:03.16 | Torhal | Alram: That was a year and a half ago, you evil non-Trek-watching person! |
| 22:03.37 | Alram | dammit |
| 22:03.44 | Alram | it was such a good insult |
| 22:03.47 | Alram | brb timetravel |
| 22:04.51 | Torhal | doesn't swerve into the concrete this time, opting instead to de-pants Alram with his wheelhub. |
| 22:05.00 | foxlit | schlumpf: don't have to remove it completely, though. Can just stop using name-based jenkins hashes for resources that don't need to be path-retrievable, placing any random noise into that field. |
| 22:05.17 | Alram | that would annoy me on a medium scale |
| 22:05.23 | Alram | (read as: angry tweets) |
| 22:05.54 | schlumpf | foxlit: of course, but what's the chance of doing that? that's an extra obfuscation step which they probably won't do due to export pipeline being somewhat sane. I guess as long as we have jenkins in root, it will be non-bogus. |
| 22:06.35 | Simca_ | they generally don't care too much about obfuscation for WoW, outside randomizing the opcodes |
| 22:06.43 | schlumpf | which no longer happens |
| 22:06.47 | Alram | since 7.0.3 |
| 22:06.52 | Simca_ | oh i didn't know that |
| 22:07.21 | schlumpf | but re names removed: see .skel files just added. totally follow pattern, but probably because m2s still have filename based fallback. we of course have pretty much no chance to find out the name of e.g. the shader id blob |
| 22:07.44 | schlumpf | then again, it probably is somehting as stupid as "shaders.blob" and we're just too dumb. |
| 22:07.53 | Simca_ | sure we do, just put a couple million PCs together into a network based bruteforce |
| 22:07.54 | Simca_ | ez |
| 22:08.11 | Alram | https://github.com/bloerwald/LegionFiles/pull/71 there Simca_ |
| 22:08.22 | Simca_ | Filenames@Home |
| 22:08.31 | Alram | i suggested this but people shot it down :( |
| 22:08.45 | schlumpf | I'm happy to contribute "a few" cpus as you know |
| 22:08.52 | Alram | when they're not broken |
| 22:09.15 | Alram | and wowdev.wiki server is bored most of the time too |
| 22:09.42 | schlumpf | checked earlier, just 27 of 1424 nodes currently broken, so pretty much perfectly up! |
| 22:09.49 | Alram | nice |
| 22:41.07 | TheDanW | Gethe: you need to adjust your layers, they're all on artwork - there's no guarantees of the rendering order for things with the same frame strata, level, layer and sublayer |
| 22:41.22 | Gethe | >.> |
| 22:43.19 | Gethe | TheDanW: that still doesn't sove why it works flwlassly on live, but has issues on PTR |
| 22:49.34 | Gethe | passing "OVERLAY" to button:CreateLine doesn't change anything, neither does changing button:CreateTexture("ARTWORK") to "BORDER" |
| 22:55.22 | Gethe | the lines tough are only one issue there. the other is that i'm setting the size to 17x17, but it's rendered 18x17 |
| 22:55.33 | foxlit | Gethe: the first arg is the name |
| 22:55.38 | schlumpf | rounding errors, details. |
| 22:56.17 | foxlit | :CreateTexture("ARTWORK") creats you a texture named ARTWORK |
| 22:56.44 | Gethe | irrelevant, still no change |
| 22:57.01 | Gethe | it's not a layering issue |
| 22:57.09 | schlumpf | What will `:CreateTexture("createcrappygreentexture.blp")` do? |
| 22:57.39 | nevcairiel | create a texture with that name? :p |
| 22:57.48 | nevcairiel | it doesnt load filenames or whatever |
| 22:57.51 | schlumpf | will it be crappy green? |
| 22:57.52 | schlumpf | boring. |
| 22:58.25 | schlumpf | I wish some developer would at some point add that file with a solid purple color just to fuck with people :) |
| 23:00.02 | foxlit | Gethe: what's the proper behaviour? White cross on a grey background? |
| 23:00.09 | Gethe | yeah |
| 23:00.15 | foxlit | worksforme. |
| 23:00.25 | foxlit | after fixing your layering, of course. |
| 23:00.28 | Gethe | it does that on live |
| 23:00.35 | Gethe | but not on ptr |
| 23:01.11 | Gethe | even before making changes to layering |
| 23:01.57 | foxlit | using https://hastebin.com/ahacuficik.lua as-is just generates a grey box on live for me. |
| 23:02.05 | foxlit | (no cross) |
| 23:02.25 | foxlit | but okay, you probably care about the ptr issue, and I have no ptr install, so no help there. |
| 23:02.43 | schlumpf | mfw foxlit has no ptr. do you even play the game? |
| 23:03.24 | foxlit | about as long as it takes to complete the raid shortcut quest on normal difficulty and never actually use it. |
| 23:04.38 | schlumpf | you're ahead of me then. I haven't logged into ToS yet. Guess I'll wait until it is all on LFR and then do it once to see the scenery. |
| 23:05.03 | VIad | if you want a normal run just say so :p |
| 23:05.12 | VIad | we did it today but can make eventand inv you next week |
| 23:06.35 | schlumpf | my guild is a shitty 3/9M so I guess I could get a normal run from there, but I have somewhat lost motivation lately. I'll see if I join heroic/badmythic progress again in 8.0. |
| 23:07.12 | foxlit | Normal is perfectly puggable; I pretty much just use the group finder to purposefully find a group that doesn't impose silly requirements on other people. |
| 23:08.14 | Mr_Rabies | i don't have the patience to pug |
| 23:08.24 | Mr_Rabies | i can wipe for hours with my guild, but one wipe in a pug and i'm done |
| 23:09.14 | foxlit | meh, shit happens, and usually people fix it. The only problem is the "ZOMG KICK EVERYONE!" crowd. |
| 23:09.23 | nevcairiel | the only fight you might even wipe on a bit on normal is KJ, unless the group is really terrible |
| 23:09.23 | schlumpf | yeah, my $whatevergroupfinderaddonIuse filter string is huge to filter all those shitty groups. works well. pugging is fine. lots of groups, especially late in content are also really happy to have people with at least some gear and understanding. I love helping the random bad pug to wipe an evening progressing. that's actually fun in contrast to all those RUSH RUSH RUSH groups. |
| 23:09.54 | Mr_Rabies | ive done a handful of other guild runs, but that's about it |
| 23:10.02 | foxlit | nevcairiel: I need an untaunt for Maiden. |
| 23:10.06 | Mr_Rabies | i don't have the patience to keep wiping with a bunch of dweebs i don't care about |
| 23:10.16 | nevcairiel | foxlit: shadowmeld =p |
| 23:10.34 | TheDanW | Gethe: works fine on ptr with layering fixed for me |
| 23:10.35 | Mr_Rabies | i do guild runs since there's at least some order going on most of the time if i pug, but it's happened like 3 times |
| 23:10.35 | foxlit | I wonder if the cooldown is short enough. |
| 23:11.01 | Mr_Rabies | but we do 8 hours of heroic and ~4 hours of normal so that's more than enough for me |
| 23:11.12 | Mr_Rabies | per week |
| 23:11.26 | foxlit | do you run it twice on normal or something? |
| 23:12.02 | schlumpf | premade-filter, "-fast -farm -ap -tank -heal -900 -curve -alt -link -lead -10 -mouz -curve -list -890 -900 -910 -905 -895 -zerg -wts -870 -speed -1shot -curv -cuvre -quick -rush -twink -artefakt -fresh -oneshot -myth -shot -clean -quest -885 -helper -verkaufen -gul -boost -suche -clear -malificius -gezeiten -sell -malificus -giveaway -treibgut -weekly -mm", go! |
| 23:12.12 | Mr_Rabies | nah, we mostly just waste time on kil'jaeden |
| 23:12.30 | Mr_Rabies | it takes like an hour and a half to get to him then last week we just beefed it |
| 23:12.36 | Mr_Rabies | i don't even remember if we killed him |
| 23:12.49 | Mr_Rabies | but my server is practically dead, so finding good players is very hard |
| 23:16.26 | foxlit | what is the built-in group search actually doing to search queries since 7.2.5? Searching for something like "12" gets you groups that don't contain 12 in any of the fields I'd care about. |
| 23:16.26 | Mr_Rabies | i think it just goes |
| 23:16.26 | Mr_Rabies | "he's looking for a number, lets give him numbers" |
| 23:16.26 | Mr_Rabies | ANY NUMBERS |
| 23:16.26 | nevcairiel | i think its a bit fuzzy on number matching now so p eople looking for +4 or whatever also find +3 and +5 |
| 23:16.26 | TheDanW | Gethe: what happens if you change your UI scale? |
| 23:16.26 | Gethe | TheDanW: if uiscale is low (i use .64) the cross disappears |
| 23:16.26 | Mr_Rabies | i looked for a +2 and i started seeing +12s and +15s |
| 23:16.26 | nebula | Gethe: changing the line layer to overlay makes that work fine |
| 23:16.38 | nebula | sublayers don't seem to affect it, though |
| 23:16.42 | schlumpf | Mr_Rabies: THATS STILL NUMBERS |
| 23:16.46 | _Kee | I am using `mythicplus and (ilvl>=920 or ilvl==0) and members>=1 and dps<=2 and defeated<=0 and (tanks+heals>=1) and (name:match("1%d") or name:match("2%d")) and not name:match("wts") and not name:match("sell") and not name:match("boost")`, works great for me as dps. |
| 23:17.04 | Mr_Rabies | jeez |
| 23:17.35 | Mr_Rabies | does the input field actually work with all that in the standard client? |
| 23:17.52 | nevcairiel | no |
| 23:18.05 | Mr_Rabies | i was gonna say |
| 23:18.12 | schlumpf | mine is premade-filter. no idea what _Kee uses |
| 23:18.19 | _Kee | "Premade Groups Filter" addon |
| 23:18.41 | Gethe | TheDanW: even at .64 uiscale? I tried it at 1 and it does work |
| 23:18.42 | Mr_Rabies | i turned off everything that touched the group finder because i kept getting insane levels of taint |
| 23:18.46 | Mr_Rabies | i just gave up and do it manually now |
| 23:19.23 | Gethe | but at the lowest scale using the slider, the cross goes away |
| 23:19.56 | TheDanW | Gethe: i'm seeing that too, something is strange there |
| 23:24.30 | schlumpf | I love it when obscure bugs are actually reproducible at whatever absurd settings people have :) |
| 23:38.08 | Gethe | I'm just glad that I'm not (completely) insane |
| 23:38.20 | TheDanW | Gethe: the line gets so thin at that scale that the line ends up with basically no thickness by the time it gets to the renderer (hand wavey details) |
| 23:38.30 | TheDanW | resizing the window can actually give different results |
| 23:38.46 | TheDanW | because it forces the layout scale to change |
| 23:39.02 | Gethe | i had a feeling that was part of it |
| 23:40.01 | TheDanW | in 7.3 i fixed a bug where the thickness wasn't taking into account the layout scale, in effect most lines became thinner |
| 23:40.23 | Gethe | ah ok |
| 23:40.24 | TheDanW | bumping up your thickness would help |
| 23:40.41 | Thunder_Child | ... |
| 23:40.59 | Thunder_Child | Context is so important there. |
| 23:41.50 | Mr_Rabies | wow only accepts T H I C C frames |
| 23:50.40 | schlumpf | ;) ;) |
