| 00:00.10 | Elmoe | but they don't even release documentation or give us any sort of sandbox to test so this is a pipe dream haha |
| 00:00.53 | bshelden | Heh, you're speaking to someone who thinks having a moddable UI is an insane idea to begin with. I appreciate it, but I still think it's nuts. |
| 00:00.58 | tinystomper | some pipe dreams can dcome true |
| 00:01.51 | Elmoe | bshelden: nah crowd sourcing your UX developer in a massive multiplayer game is pure genius, one of the best moves Blizzard made and something others should have copied but didn't |
| 00:02.04 | Elmoe | I've always wondering who pushed the idea |
| 00:02.20 | Elmoe | I believe Slouken was very involved on that side of things originally |
| 00:02.26 | tinystomper | another issue with the GF is the lack of information about the group leader and those wait listing. due to this, it's hit or miss unless the leader goes thru the unusual step of looking each wait lister up |
| 00:03.07 | Elmoe | tinystomper: yeah that was a big regression in functionality from oqueue for sure, however can't you still implement that on top of the GF APIs? |
| 00:03.42 | tinystomper | and yes elmoe, it's pure genius. allow the community to fiddle around handling user requests and those that bubble to the top... incorporate. radically cuts the r&d |
| 00:03.58 | Elmoe | tinystomper: yup |
| 00:04.29 | TheDanW | and Fitch |
| 00:05.10 | tinystomper | to be honest, i could make oQueue work again... but if i did, outside the GF data feed, there'd be a crowd of ppl freaking out and blizz would move to nullify it somehow |
| 00:05.25 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: Wildstar did it, but they had other issues. (The UI had issues as well, but hey, at least they tried) |
| 00:05.34 | tinystomper | doing it within the GF data feed is haphazard at best since not everyone would have the data |
| 00:07.19 | tinystomper | (story time) one night in vent, we had a guy from korea log in. among other things, he told us how strict their community was and how any negative action would get a player banned almost shunned |
| 00:08.09 | tinystomper | that type of thing use to exist in the game (pre-crz) as the people on the realm would quickly find out if you were a ninja or what not |
| 00:08.36 | *** join/#wowuidev TorelTwiddler (~TorelTwid@cpe-75-84-184-97.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:08.47 | kd3 | that group shunning ceased to be a thing in 3.3 with dungeon finder |
| 00:08.49 | Elmoe | yeah wow desperately needs a kharma system with the rise of cross-realm gaming |
| 00:08.56 | tinystomper | but with the introduction of crz, that impact was removed and now there is very little negative feedback to bad behavior |
| 00:09.28 | tinystomper | which is exactly why i put in the concept of kharma |
| 00:10.48 | tinystomper | people would say it could be abused, but it wasn't. in general, most people had neutral karma, as expected. you'd get some leaders people were fond of that would get karma spikes... and the ass-bags that would get hti with loads of negative karma... but in general, most held at 0 (neutral) |
| 00:11.04 | znf | oh my god |
| 00:11.08 | znf | are you that fucktard with oQueue? |
| 00:11.27 | tinystomper | *applies -1 karma |
| 00:11.56 | znf | the way you coded your addon was cancer |
| 00:12.27 | bshelden | Instant open hostility and not even a shred of reasonable discussion. Way to make us look good, znf. |
| 00:12.28 | znf | also, your idea to add a bunch of useless shit features ruined it |
| 00:12.32 | tinystomper | yes, it was my first addon ... and it was developed on the fly with constant suggestions/requests |
| 00:12.39 | kd3 | ok, that's enough of the hostility |
| 00:12.47 | znf | hint: don't always listen to your users, they don't know shit |
| 00:13.04 | tinystomper | hey znf, if your code is so spotless... why didn't you make an oqueue alternative?? |
| 00:13.09 | znf | your idea was great, the implementation was horrible |
| 00:13.16 | Ressy | Just look at the issue tickets. "Your addon did this." "Um, no.. It was another addon. Go bug them." |
| 00:13.46 | Ressy | (users suck) |
| 00:13.55 | znf | my code is not great, I barely write code, anyway, the whole concept of "This addon does everything" is flawed |
| 00:14.00 | tinystomper | when you have an issue with the *vast* majority of addons... there is no one to reach out to |
| 00:14.01 | znf | didn't you add some "bounty" shit at a time? |
| 00:14.28 | znf | I installed your addon for about 5 minutes, then promptly removed it. So much useless crap. |
| 00:14.33 | znf | I'll say it again: your idea was great |
| 00:14.35 | znf | that's it |
| 00:15.04 | tinystomper | grats. it was free. it brought be absolutely nothing. you using it or not impacted me in no way whatsoever |
| 00:15.39 | znf | You were also not compliant with a simple blizzard policy: don't ask for donations in the addon, the curse author reward program is more than decent |
| 00:16.28 | tinystomper | how many addons have a link ... in-game... to their curse page? on that curse page, was there a donate button? yes. difference is???? zero |
| 00:16.49 | znf | There's a big difference |
| 00:16.51 | tinystomper | curse is cancer |
| 00:16.53 | Ressy | It doesn't break rules. |
| 00:16.58 | Ressy | Solidice is cancer. Sorry. |
| 00:17.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Xuerian (~Xuerian@199.91.179.30) |
| 00:17.20 | znf | Curse actually rewards authors. |
| 00:17.33 | kd3 | wish I had popcorn, but time to head home |
| 00:17.42 | znf | You hosted addons on your website without author permission. |
| 00:17.44 | Gnarfoz | kd3: grab some on the way! :P |
| 00:17.52 | Rythal | addon that breaks rules, on a site that breaks rules |
| 00:17.55 | tinystomper | the link to a curse page w/ a donate button is different from a link to a solidice page w/ a donate button .. how again?? |
| 00:18.07 | Gnarfoz | one is against the rules, the other is not. |
| 00:18.11 | znf | ^ simple |
| 00:18.13 | Gnarfoz | and no, you don't get to interpret the rules. |
| 00:18.32 | Gnarfoz | wanders off to dreamland |
| 00:19.05 | Gnarfoz | (you had a donate button IN GAME, that's what he is talking about) |
| 00:19.34 | znf | that was the reason you actually got removed from curse, if I remember correctly (it's been a long time) |
| 00:20.29 | Gnarfoz | anyway, at the point where you have expenses to run "infrastructure" for an addon, maybe you should rethink if you're on the right track... |
| 00:20.56 | tinystomper | http://i.imgur.com/gtqPDpd.png |
| 00:21.00 | tinystomper | no difference |
| 00:21.47 | znf | one tells you to send beer, the other doesn't... |
| 00:21.59 | tinystomper | there was nop way you could ever donate in-game. to say so just shows your ignorance. today, the blizz store has an in-game payment mechanism... that is in-game donation (of a sort) |
| 00:22.12 | Gnarfoz | nobody said you could donate in-game. |
| 00:22.30 | znf | There's no other addon that asks for beer money IN GAME, get it? |
| 00:22.37 | Gnarfoz | but we know you're a veteran twister of words, so I'll leave you to it |
| 00:22.44 | tinystomper | literally 1 minute ago: Gnarfox: (you had a donate button IN GAME, that's what he is talking about) |
| 00:22.50 | Torhal | . |
| 00:22.59 | znf | your threads when you argued with half the community were popcorn worthy |
| 00:23.02 | Torhal | Keyboard Kitten to the rescue |
| 00:24.48 | tinystomper | and yes, i believe devs should be able to charge or ask for donations if they want |
| 00:25.16 | znf | Blizzard doesn't think so. It's their game. |
| 00:25.33 | znf | Guess you picked the wrong game to write an addon for. |
| 00:26.09 | tinystomper | you people have zero issue paying $20 for a 10 minute pizza that took no skill, yet start squaking like stuck pigs if someone dares to ask for a donation for their work that could've taken hundreds or thousands of hours |
| 00:26.47 | tinystomper | blizz implemented the no-charge rule in 2010 (i think). i wasn't around for the controversy |
| 00:26.50 | Rythal | There isn't any problem asking for donations, just not in the addon itself as it's against policy. |
| 00:27.09 | Gnarfoz | Blizzard didn't have an official addon policy for quite a long time, then they had one. Version 1 already included this. |
| 00:27.35 | Gnarfoz | you're fighting the wrong people. it's against Blizzard's rules, not ours. so stop trying to explain to us how it's ok for you to do something that's clearly against the rules. |
| 00:27.56 | bshelden | I think Blizzard has the right to decide what can and can not be done on their platform. I think I have the right to decide if I'm willing to develop for said platform or not. That's it. |
| 00:28.02 | tinystomper | oh, i never signed a contract stating i would abide by any 'rules'. i only do it to be nice |
| 00:28.09 | Rythal | if anything i'm starting to hate donations :| it guilts me into continuing to do addon work |
| 00:28.14 | Ressy | lol |
| 00:28.22 | bshelden | ... |
| 00:28.28 | znf | oh, so now you need a contract? heh |
| 00:28.35 | bshelden | wow, ok, you're just looking to argue. Yeah, time to go home/ |
| 00:28.38 | tinystomper | the world runs on contracts |
| 00:28.59 | znf | actually it doesn't, not everything is a contract |
| 00:29.04 | tinystomper | i came to offer advice. i got attacked. |
| 00:29.08 | znf | you didn't, per say, sign a contract when youc reated a WoW account |
| 00:29.14 | Gnarfoz | actually, they're part of the ToS, which you agree to by playing the game. |
| 00:29.16 | znf | yeah, you got attacked because you were a dick |
| 00:29.25 | znf | and it still seems you are |
| 00:29.30 | tinystomper | and how do you think i should react to you, znf? |
| 00:29.32 | Gnarfoz | so... yes, you agreed to them |
| 00:29.43 | tinystomper | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:29.45 | znf | people will not forget the fact that you hosted their addons WITHOUT permission on YOUR website |
| 00:30.00 | znf | and that you took weeks to respond, or ignored their removal requests |
| 00:30.10 | kullervo | what that's new, press s+w and double jump as DH |
| 00:30.12 | Rythal | and blatently thumbed nose at the blizzard addon policy. |
| 00:30.15 | Ressy | Naw.. He complied when his host received DMCA complaints. |
| 00:30.19 | Ressy | :) |
| 00:30.21 | tinystomper | oh, you're a curse defender. got it. please explain to me the gnu copyright policy again |
| 00:30.38 | Ressy | You put ARL on Solidice, and its always been All Rights Reserved |
| 00:30.39 | znf | You mean the GPL? |
| 00:30.43 | znf | What does have to do with it? :) |
| 00:30.45 | Ressy | So get off that. You took addons you had no right to. |
| 00:30.59 | znf | Not all addons are GPL. |
| 00:31.03 | tinystomper | you cannot restrict the distribution of any GPL piece |
| 00:31.04 | znf | Not all addons are public domain |
| 00:31.16 | tinystomper | that itself is a violation of the GPL |
| 00:31.22 | Gnarfoz | that's great. |
| 00:31.22 | znf | Excuse me? :) |
| 00:31.49 | Rythal | hosting addons that are ARR doesn't fall under GPL. |
| 00:31.55 | tinystomper | you cannot restrict the distribution of GPL works. |
| 00:32.01 | Gnarfoz | that's great, and irrelevant. |
| 00:32.02 | znf | Which GPL work? |
| 00:32.13 | tinystomper | true, and ARR items were removed within 24 hrs |
| 00:32.15 | Ressy | The addons which are still up on his site & outdated. |
| 00:32.24 | Gnarfoz | hah, 24 hours, nice joke. |
| 00:32.28 | Ressy | tinystomper: Do you remember telling me that you wouldn't remove it for any reason? |
| 00:32.31 | Ressy | Cuz I remember that. |
| 00:32.37 | Ressy | And I remember filign DMCA notices with your host. |
| 00:32.43 | Ressy | BECAUSE you refused us |
| 00:32.47 | tinystomper | if it's GPL, no i wouldn't remove it |
| 00:32.57 | Ressy | Its not. Its All Rights Reserved. |
| 00:33.08 | tinystomper | then it was removed |
| 00:33.22 | Ressy | After we went to your host. After you refused to remove it. |
| 00:33.26 | tinystomper | (unless it got passed the scrap) |
| 00:33.27 | Ressy | Shady |
| 00:33.54 | tinystomper | yea yea. real shady |
| 00:34.03 | Rythal | carbonite_5.1.6.zip ... wow.. talk about hosting way outdated :| lol |
| 00:34.04 | znf | Regardless if it's GPL or not, it's morally shitty to do that |
| 00:34.27 | Ressy | And still technically copyright infringement of ARL & its various modules. |
| 00:34.28 | znf | Especially since you're basically "robbing" people out of money. |
| 00:34.32 | Primer | tinystomper: hey, my addons are GPL. Please host them, I need more exposure! |
| 00:34.55 | Gnarfoz | Primer: ironically, if it had started out that way, there would not have been an issue. |
| 00:35.02 | tinystomper | bs |
| 00:35.06 | Ressy | ^ |
| 00:35.14 | Ressy | Ask first. Not do first, ask for forgiveness later. |
| 00:35.19 | tinystomper | that was pointed out on a wowinterface thread. |
| 00:35.34 | Gnarfoz | one would think "World of Addons" was lesson enough |
| 00:35.42 | tinystomper | there is a walled garden being protected |
| 00:35.43 | Rythal | or matrix |
| 00:35.59 | znf | I'm sorry, walled garden? |
| 00:36.10 | znf | listen, I don't host most of my 5-line addons on WoWI |
| 00:36.17 | tinystomper | google is that way --> |
| 00:36.19 | znf | Nobody from WoWI copied my addons from Curse and hosted them on WoWI |
| 00:36.34 | Gnarfoz | you don't get to "free" what's not yours. you can think you're the savior all you want, it's still not your prerogative. |
| 00:36.34 | znf | For that, my respect. |
| 00:36.49 | Primer | Who do you think you are? RMS? |
| 00:37.03 | Primer | Only RMS is RMS |
| 00:37.07 | Gnarfoz | all hail the lord |
| 00:37.13 | tinystomper | if an addon is GPL, do you think it can only be distributed by curse? |
| 00:37.25 | Gnarfoz | no. |
| 00:37.40 | Rythal | Hell... I dropped both WoWI and Curse and stick to github, I don't see anyone rushing to update on either site.. |
| 00:38.03 | Primer | It's funny how money turns people into assholes. I'm glad my addons aren't popular, otherwise I'd be an even bigger asshole |
| 00:38.18 | tinystomper | funny thing is... there was never any money in it |
| 00:38.34 | znf | There is some money for people who host their addons on Curse, via the author reward program |
| 00:38.45 | Gnarfoz | (although I doubt that's the motivation to do so, for most) |
| 00:38.54 | znf | If you host my addon on your website, without my permission, and you "steal" downloads, basically, I get less money from Curse |
| 00:38.57 | znf | So, you're a dick. |
| 00:39.08 | Primer | yeah, it the 8 years I've been on curse I must have made...$100? Is there something tracking that? |
| 00:39.13 | Primer | Torhal: ^^^^^^ |
| 00:39.18 | Ressy | Have you seen how outdated the addons are on solidice? That alone would increase issue tickets.. "I'm using x.x.x.2 from solidice." "Update to x.x.x.8 from Curse, and you'll be fine. It was fixed weeks ago." |
| 00:39.23 | Gnarfoz | znf: not illegal, if the licence allows it, though. that'd be on you. |
| 00:39.31 | znf | ofc, not illegal |
| 00:39.42 | znf | dick move? yes |
| 00:39.45 | tinystomper | author reward program??? ROFLMAO |
| 00:39.58 | Gnarfoz | yep, they're actually giving back. |
| 00:40.00 | tinystomper | that's freakin rich |
| 00:40.10 | Ressy | Its been in place for a while. |
| 00:40.18 | tinystomper | you do realize they don't accurately count the downloads... right? |
| 00:40.19 | Gnarfoz | you won't get rich off it, unless you're nevcairiel. ;) |
| 00:40.32 | Gnarfoz | you realize you have no idea how they measure popularity? :P |
| 00:40.33 | Ressy | This week alone, I've checked out $50 CAD. :P |
| 00:40.42 | Gnarfoz | (hint: it's not "downloads") |
| 00:40.46 | tinystomper | hell, oQueue download count didn't update for 3 MONTHS while it was on curse |
| 00:40.52 | Rythal | I get capped every year :/ and i'm too lazy to fill out the i'm not american form |
| 00:41.03 | Ressy | Really? You should do it. |
| 00:41.07 | znf | ha, I have exactly 666 points |
| 00:41.17 | Ressy | I've helped a few out Rythal.. I can help you too if you want. :) |
| 00:41.32 | Gnarfoz | when it was on Curse, I wonder why you didn't partake of the rewards program. you could have paid for your "infrastructure" many times over, considering how popular it was. |
| 00:41.33 | Ressy | I write off part of my internet bills towards the income. |
| 00:42.05 | Rythal | I'm already self-contract so I get to write off my internet, cell phone and part of my rent :) |
| 00:42.12 | Gnarfoz | guess Curse was too evul for you. |
| 00:42.17 | znf | ...I just don't pay taxes |
| 00:42.18 | znf | how's that |
| 00:42.34 | Gnarfoz | illegal, probably. :p |
| 00:42.40 | Gnarfoz | welcome to Romania |
| 00:42.41 | tinystomper | gnarfoz... that's the point. i was in the 'rewards program'... and received a total of $500 over the course of one year. during that time, there was a 3 MONTH period during which the download count did not change. |
| 00:42.42 | Ressy | lol.. Lets just say I make more than 1k CAD every year from Curse rewards points. :D |
| 00:42.58 | Gnarfoz | tinystomper: and the download count matters... why? |
| 00:43.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Guill (0c81cc2e@WoWUIDev/Blizzard/Guillotine) |
| 00:43.05 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Guill] by ChanServ |
| 00:43.06 | Gnarfoz | because that's not how reward points are determined. |
| 00:43.12 | tinystomper | you get $100 for every 200,000 downloads |
| 00:43.17 | tinystomper | it was at the time |
| 00:43.19 | Gnarfoz | ...or so you think. |
| 00:43.19 | znf | who told you that? |
| 00:43.20 | znf | lol |
| 00:43.22 | Ressy | lol |
| 00:43.38 | Rythal | If I actually updated my addons once in a while I would probably get more, but even with every 6 month updates it's a decent amount to keep me happy. |
| 00:44.27 | tinystomper | the first month i took it off curse, the ads on the simple page brought in over $4k (that's in a single month) |
| 00:44.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Tile (0c81cc2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.12.129.204.42) |
| 00:45.17 | znf | (wtf, you can't collect coins for more than 10 gyms in pokemon go?! dicks...) |
| 00:45.18 | tinystomper | if that's the kind of revenue curse makes off their pages... and had only coughed up $500 over a year... yea... scumbags |
| 00:45.59 | Primer | I know! How DARE they give money to developers who would have put their addons there for nothing in the first place! |
| 00:46.03 | Gnarfoz | extrapolating from donations solicited against the rules of the game they were solicited in... to how much curse makes off websites... to your curse reward point share? |
| 00:46.11 | Gnarfoz | yeah, clearly you're not confused. |
| 00:46.32 | Rythal | wait.. you actually survived 24 hours in 10 gyms??? I can't last longer then 5 minutes in a single gym |
| 00:46.35 | tinystomper | just responding to you garden guards |
| 00:46.40 | Gnarfoz | can I interest you in some tin foil? |
| 00:46.45 | znf | Rythal, pretty chilled tourist area |
| 00:46.53 | Gnarfoz | and you still haven't explained how anything on wowi or curse is "walled". |
| 00:46.57 | znf | Rythal, also, the timer starts when you capture a gym |
| 00:47.14 | znf | Rythal, and you can capture more gyms before actually collecting |
| 00:47.17 | tinystomper | do you not know the term 'walled garden'? |
| 00:47.26 | znf | we know the term walled garden, apparently you don't |
| 00:47.32 | Gnarfoz | I did not say you didn't explain the concept of a "walled garden", learn to read, man |
| 00:47.46 | Gnarfoz | I did say you did not elucidate on how it applies *here*. |
| 00:47.53 | znf | Rythal, so, if you have 1 gym READY to collect, you can go capture more, then hit the collect button |
| 00:47.56 | Torhal | But it isn't a walled garden. People host with Curse or WoWInterface as they choose. Both have things the other do not. |
| 00:48.31 | Gnarfoz | considering the rules what can be done in an addon are set by Blizzard, so they apply to Curse, WoWI... and *you*. So you're as walled-in as everyone else. |
| 00:51.04 | tinystomper | curse protects its garden of addons as they bring in the eye balls. some here work directly for curse. being attacked for AAR i can see... but you have zero footing for GPL and other licenses that have a restriction policy on distribution |
| 00:51.38 | znf | How do they protect it...? |
| 00:51.41 | tinystomper | *a no-restriciton policy |
| 00:51.48 | znf | Enlighten us. |
| 00:52.01 | tinystomper | attacking any that may also host |
| 00:52.05 | Torhal | o.o |
| 00:52.09 | Torhal | No. |
| 00:52.16 | tinystomper | ^ works for curse |
| 00:52.22 | znf | How did they attack you...? |
| 00:52.31 | Torhal | I also host my projects on WoWInterface, tinystomper. |
| 00:52.32 | Ressy | And? He's also an addon author with ARR addons which you infringed on. |
| 00:52.35 | Gnarfoz | guess what: none of the people who're being vocal against you right now work for Curse |
| 00:52.47 | Ressy | < vocal, don't work for Curse. |
| 00:52.52 | Torhal | And if you'd played nice, I might also have hosted with you. |
| 00:52.58 | znf | < don't work for curse |
| 00:53.48 | tinystomper | torhal, i think you had gpl licensed things, right? (or you assumed them when they were abandoned) |
| 00:53.58 | Gnarfoz | and calling "even though it's legal, the author(s) said they preferred if you didn't" "zero footing" is exactly what's wrong: you just don't give a shit. |
| 00:55.08 | Torhal | You had hundreds of All Rights Reserved as well as Custom License projects which were worded similarly to ARR that you absolutely refused to take down until the DMCAs started. But I digress; I went through all this two years ago, and I'm not getting brought back in. I'm done here. |
| 00:55.14 | Rythal | < don't work for curse, wowi or blizzard |
| 00:55.30 | Gnarfoz | Rythal confirmed secret Blizzard employee! |
| 00:55.34 | znf | hugs Torhal |
| 00:55.38 | tinystomper | gnarfoz... to claim you support the gpl and you release code under the gpl... something some devs get a 'warm & fuzzy' over... then try to restrict is distribution ... is in itself a violation of the gpl |
| 00:55.41 | pompy | ZzzZzzZzZzZ |
| 00:55.52 | znf | So, wait |
| 00:55.59 | znf | You are willing to follow the GPL. |
| 00:56.04 | znf | But you are not willing to follow Blizzard's ToS? |
| 00:56.05 | znf | Ok. |
| 00:56.05 | Torhal | And that's the perfect community-building attitude; "Fuck you, your license allows it." |
| 00:56.20 | tinystomper | sorry torhol, i wasn't here to get into this crap. |
| 00:56.40 | tinystomper | actually, yes. that's it exactly |
| 00:56.42 | Gnarfoz | no, your past deeds just haunt you |
| 00:57.00 | Neffi | wait, this is the guy? |
| 00:57.07 | Rythal | I am not against you hosting my addon, yeah it's GPL.. what i'm against is it being near 3 years out of date, and people still download it from your site even now according to the stats |
| 00:57.08 | tinystomper | don't claim gpl if you're not gpl |
| 00:57.22 | Rythal | if your gunna grab my work from other sites at least keep it up to date. |
| 00:57.23 | Gnarfoz | don't claim to benefit authors when you don't |
| 00:57.31 | tinystomper | actually ryhtal, no, people really don't. |
| 00:58.09 | *** join/#wowuidev maunot (~pankker@mobile-access-bcee39-119.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:58.09 | tinystomper | nothing against anyt addons you may have wirtten, its just not being used for that anymore |
| 00:58.24 | tinystomper | (actually, i haven't worked on the site in .. err.. 18 months?) |
| 00:59.30 | Gnarfoz | so... maybe disable addon downloads then, so people don't mistakenly grab whatever ancient version there is from there. that'd be the first good will thing, like, ever. |
| 00:59.44 | Gnarfoz | (if you're saying people don't use it anymore anyway) |
| 00:59.57 | znf | it's still bringing in ad revenue, doh :P |
| 00:59.59 | tinystomper | i moved on to other projects since then |
| 01:00.18 | tinystomper | ad revenue? ummm.... pennies if anything |
| 01:00.34 | znf | Where's that revenue sharing, btw? |
| 01:00.41 | znf | I think you owe Ressy some stuff |
| 01:00.46 | tinystomper | did you sign up for it? |
| 01:01.06 | Primer | I tried, but when you asked for my social security number, I balked |
| 01:01.18 | Primer | man, tough crowd... |
| 01:01.22 | tinystomper | if you did, then the ads on your addon pages would've generated the revenue DIRECTLY |
| 01:01.41 | tinystomper | and no, i would've never asked for anyones ssno. |
| 01:01.50 | tinystomper | all we needed was the adsense id |
| 01:02.12 | znf | So you take addons from people without asking, you host them, you earn money from ad revenue, you don't comply to takedown requests (because GPL lol), and then people have to come ask you for money? |
| 01:02.13 | znf | Ok. |
| 01:02.28 | tinystomper | ok, not really revenue sharing.. more like direct reveneu generation by the author |
| 01:03.04 | tinystomper | sorry znf, your narrative is false |
| 01:03.14 | znf | yeah, right |
| 01:03.24 | tinystomper | aar pieces were taken down unless otherwise specified |
| 01:03.34 | tinystomper | that was within the first 24 hrs |
| 01:03.36 | Gnarfoz | proven time and time again to be untrue. |
| 01:03.37 | znf | Ressy claims otherwise |
| 01:03.37 | tinystomper | yes, one day |
| 01:04.04 | Elmoe | past is the past, why have the same discussion from 2 years ago? its a moot point now. tiny came in here and put forward 4 good suggestions: 1.) blizzard have a CM focused on the developer community 2.) groupfinder add richer player info like boss kill counts 3.) groupfinder not auto delist full groups 4.) kharma system. can we discuss the merits of these suggestions? that is productive |
| 01:04.27 | kd3 | home. did pick up some popcorn on the way. let's see what I missed |
| 01:04.31 | znf | 1: there's blizzard employees here, that are very responsive |
| 01:04.38 | znf | 2: no, will never happen |
| 01:04.41 | Thunder_Child | kd3: All you missed was a waste of time. |
| 01:04.45 | znf | 3: sure, it's a bug, I guess? |
| 01:04.48 | tinystomper | kd3, it's just them jumping on me |
| 01:04.50 | znf | 4: nope, never |
| 01:05.18 | Ressy | You've never apologized to us for scraping sites and hosting our ARR addons. |
| 01:05.35 | Elmoe | znf: why would 2 never happen? ilevel is returned now and armory has the kill counts? |
| 01:05.42 | tinystomper | apologized? are we in elementary school? |
| 01:05.49 | znf | tinystomper, we're human beings |
| 01:06.05 | tinystomper | tumblr-face-palm |
| 01:06.09 | Elmoe | #4 is really tough but other MMOs seem to have implemented it without rampant abuse |
| 01:06.41 | tinystomper | yes elmoe, it can be done and would bring back a sense of community reputation of sorts |
| 01:06.52 | kd3 | bah. invasions are still broken? |
| 01:06.59 | tinystomper | and no znf, #3 is not a bug... that's the design |
| 01:07.04 | znf | They usually stay away from implementing features that segregate the community |
| 01:07.33 | Elmoe | znf: then why did they include ilevel? |
| 01:07.44 | Gnarfoz | kd3: now I'm envious of your popcorn :D |
| 01:07.47 | Elmoe | kill counts to me are more useful than ilevel |
| 01:07.48 | znf | I'm sure there's other reasons |
| 01:07.58 | Elmoe | ilevel seems so low fidelity if that makes sense |
| 01:08.10 | Elmoe | I hated when that gear score addon came out ugh |
| 01:08.25 | Rythal | If WoW added kharma, I'd give it 24 hours before someone released an automated kharma vote system using API, and 48 hours before trade chat trolls used it to flag everyone -999999 |
| 01:08.44 | Elmoe | Rythal: yeah I wonder if the kharma system was only positive if it would be much more viable |
| 01:08.49 | Elmoe | Rythal: you can only upvote never downvote |
| 01:08.50 | Gnarfoz | Rythal: it'd probably be this guy ^ and he'd say he did nothing wrong. :P |
| 01:09.01 | tinystomper | the various info that makes up your toon should be available to the leader if you wish to join their group. if he doesn't like what he sees, or doesn't see, then its his choice to pass on you. at which point you're still ablke to find another group |
| 01:09.12 | tinystomper | this is how raiding guilds have worked since vanilla |
| 01:09.20 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: hey now! I'm a nice guy I'm not giving negative kharma hah! |
| 01:10.25 | tinystomper | rythal, that wouldn't be possible. in order to be ABLE to give a karma point, you'd have to 1) be in the group with the person and 2) have killed a boss or won a bg |
| 01:10.25 | Elmoe | I fee like any information available on the Armory should be readily available in the group finder. Otherwise you're just creating a layer of indirection to acquire the data which adds inefficiency to the group selection process. If they really don't want decisions based on that data it shouldn't be available through the armory to begin with. |
| 01:11.20 | Elmoe | tinystomper: I still feel like negative kharma is tough to avoid abuse. I like how in overwatch the server controls the card selection and you can only vote up |
| 01:12.29 | *** join/#wowuidev xmyno_ (~xmyno@x4db42419.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:13.45 | tinystomper | you'd still only be able to give a single point of karma to a target within a 24 hr period. this limits any abuse |
| 01:14.15 | *** join/#wowuidev xmyno_ (~xmyno@x4db42419.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:14.23 | *** part/#wowuidev xmyno_ (~xmyno@x4db42419.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:14.28 | Elmoe | why do we need negative kharma at all though? why not only positive. the more you have the more you've added value historically to groups |
| 01:15.04 | foxlit | and fuck new players trying to get into groups. |
| 01:15.33 | Elmoe | foxlit: yeah thats definitely a problem |
| 01:15.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Aftermathh (53fbe5f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.251.229.241) |
| 01:15.55 | Elmoe | maybe an initial seed value that decays over time? |
| 01:15.56 | tinystomper | the way i implemented it was a number ranging -25..+25 |
| 01:16.06 | tinystomper | 0 was neutral. |
| 01:16.14 | znf | "LF Healer, needs 10000+ Karma" |
| 01:16.27 | tinystomper | every 24 hrs you'd recv a point to move your karma back towards 0. |
| 01:16.32 | Aftermathh | Hey! |
| 01:16.35 | Freddie | obviously karmmr |
| 01:16.45 | foxlit | (additionally, objectively assessing player performance in a 10-25-man group is a fool's errand). |
| 01:16.49 | Elmoe | znf: I think you could argue thats a better metric for group inclusion than "LF healer 720+ ilvl" though hah |
| 01:17.06 | Aftermathh | Could anyone help me to remove this? :3 http://imgur.com/a/jBCGc |
| 01:17.20 | znf | no, ilvl is a game mechanic |
| 01:17.24 | znf | karma is a "human" mechanic |
| 01:17.37 | Elmoe | znf: true |
| 01:17.41 | Gnarfoz | Aftermathh: /fstack |
| 01:17.43 | tinystomper | as for why do you need negative karma, it's for the guy that ninja'd the bunny. he'd get a -1 from the 20+ ppl in his party, prolly max out to -25... and have issues getting into groups for a while (until it woreoff) |
| 01:17.58 | znf | I think he wants that specific frame removed, Gnarfoz :D |
| 01:17.58 | foxlit | it's impossible to ninja anything in GF groups. |
| 01:18.03 | Gnarfoz | znf: oh. well. :D |
| 01:18.13 | znf | /run ScenarioStageBlock:Hide() |
| 01:18.14 | znf | ? |
| 01:18.28 | Elmoe | foxlit: yeah I very much like the new guild master loot system |
| 01:18.28 | Aftermathh | Gnar, indeed i used fstack i tried every frame either worked. |
| 01:18.33 | Tuller | oh hey, look an argument happened :P |
| 01:18.39 | foxlit | Any sort of book-keeping is overly complicated anyway. If you had a bad experience with someone, add them to some "bad" list and complain loudly if you see them in the raid group. Conversely, if you've had a good experience with someone, add them to your friends list and invite them to your next group. |
| 01:18.47 | tinystomper | true, but the purpose of karma is an attempt to reintroduce the concept of community reputation |
| 01:19.26 | Gnarfoz | you're trying to centralize it, though, which is the opposite of "community", really |
| 01:19.52 | Guill | tinystomper: When AddOn authors have API/Lua/XML questions, I'm happy to discuss it with them in here. This really isn't the right channel (and nobody in this channel is the right person) to discuss design decisions. If you have design ideas you think would be awesome, I encourage you to write them up and post them on the official WoW forums. Those do get read, particularly if they get a positive community response. |
| 01:19.55 | tinystomper | the problem with that, foxlit, is CRZ.... it's so vast, the odds of running into that person again is near zero. thus they have no real negative imnpact that can travel with them. |
| 01:19.56 | Elmoe | foxlit: yeah the in game mechanisms work fairly well for that, does the group finder show you if a group contains someone on your ignore list like it does for friends? I know it at least won't show you a group if the leader is on ignore |
| 01:20.52 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: you won't be grouped with people you've ignored, to my knowledge. |
| 01:21.24 | Gnarfoz | (oh, well, maybe that only applies to the dungeon finder.) |
| 01:21.41 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: yeah I know queueing works that way, but I meant do you still see a group in the GF list if it contains someone on ignore? I know it hides if the leader is on ignore which is great way to avoid ninjas after you've been burned once |
| 01:21.58 | Guill | Elmoe: Yes, you still see the group. |
| 01:22.04 | Elmoe | in general though I'm waiting to see how far the guild master loot fix gets us wrt abuse |
| 01:22.11 | Elmoe | this way make the need for kharma rather moot |
| 01:22.16 | Elmoe | s/way/may |
| 01:22.21 | tinystomper | Guill, very few feature requests get much attention from the community in general (unless it wqs 'rate my transmog api') |
| 01:22.33 | Elmoe | Guill: does it highlight that a player on ignore is in the group like it does if a friend is in the group? that would be useful |
| 01:22.57 | tinystomper | for example: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20744254379 |
| 01:23.23 | Guill | Elmoe: Not currently. If people found this (joining groups only to find someone they hated) to be a big problem, I could see adding it, but I haven't heard anyone complain about having that happen. |
| 01:24.35 | Elmoe | Guill: well I'm sure blizzard can use actual data (ie. how many players leave group within X min of joining when group contains player on ignore) to drive that decision rather than anecdote |
| 01:25.00 | tinystomper | the karma mechanism was part of the info you'd see about a player that is either leading or wait listing for a group |
| 01:25.13 | *** join/#wowuidev xqo (uid158607@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kwofdfnuusnyoxlb) |
| 01:25.38 | znf | karma will never happen |
| 01:25.42 | Elmoe | tinystomper: think about what I mentioned above though, now that we have guild master loot, do we need kharma in group finder anymore? |
| 01:25.56 | Elmoe | tinystomper: only a guild group can cause abuse at this point right? |
| 01:26.06 | xqo | Hi, the mod named Garrison Jukebox gets this error: Couldn't find region named '(null)' https://bpaste.net/show/79b12f8bf906 |
| 01:26.16 | tinystomper | info on progression would be very useful for raiders. as well as various achieves. as for pvp groups, having their 30 day record oir lifetime achive might be useful |
| 01:26.19 | Aftermathh | Would someone be able to help me out to get rid of this frame/background? :) I've tried everything if anyone knows how to remove it i would be very happy! http://imgur.com/a/jBCGc |
| 01:26.25 | Gnarfoz | "guild master loot", you keep saying that. just use personal loot and be as safe as it gets? |
| 01:26.25 | xqo | i wanted to try to do a check for null, and then return, but how do i compare that to null? |
| 01:26.49 | Elmoe | tinystomper: fully agreed on that, any data on the armory should be readily available in the group finder, adding indirection/latency to decision making helps no one |
| 01:26.49 | Gnarfoz | if not x then return end |
| 01:27.02 | Gnarfoz | xqo: ^ |
| 01:27.41 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: sorry I meant to say now that Blizzard has added "guild master loot" most groups in GF are actually personal loot so in turn abuse should no longer be a large issue (only in guild groups) and hence no kharma system needed anymore? |
| 01:27.42 | xqo | Gnarfoz: but i dont think the value will eval to false or null |
| 01:28.04 | xqo | Gnarfoz: this is the 'region' referenced: CENTER table: 0x1d5250ec0 CENTER 0 |
| 01:28.30 | Elmoe | I guess tiny's point is that kharma would still be useful for pvp groups, sorry I never pvp only pve |
| 01:28.34 | Gnarfoz | I don't know what that means; I just explained how to check for nil values |
| 01:28.57 | tinystomper | if all groups were GF groups, then yes, there'd be little chance at ninja looting... but that's just one type of behavior that would result in negative karma |
| 01:28.59 | xqo | thank you |
| 01:29.30 | tinystomper | i had plenty of comments about leaders that were sexist, racist or just horrible at leading. |
| 01:29.48 | Gnarfoz | (also I'm a bit confused why that looks like it's using "null" instead of "nil" - is that normal with Frames or XML... or something?) |
| 01:29.59 | Elmoe | tinystomper: even if you found the group yourself you are still stuck with personal loot afaik, its not just a GF created group restriction, but your point still stands for abuse cases in pvp I'm just not familiar with pvp at all |
| 01:30.45 | tinystomper | it's funny that leadership in pvp would be a bigger deal then pve, considering the history of raiding guilds |
| 01:31.16 | tinystomper | then again, pvp'rs would jump between many groups while raiders would prolly stick with the same one |
| 01:31.39 | Elmoe | tinystomper: part of it is the nature of the new wow, you queue for a specific boss, you kill it, you leave. there is rarely even voice so the idea of sustained behavioral abuse is much rarer than the old days in my experience |
| 01:31.52 | tinystomper | true |
| 01:31.57 | tinystomper | and that's an issue |
| 01:32.01 | Gnarfoz | (there wasn't voice in random groups in the old days, either) |
| 01:32.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (~Arrowmast@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 01:32.29 | tinystomper | you just described the situation where the 'persistence' of our persistent world has been removed |
| 01:32.33 | Aftermathh | Would someone be able to help me out to get rid of this frame/background? :) I've tried everything if anyone knows how to remove it i would be very happy! http://imgur.com/a/jBCGc |
| 01:32.41 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: but guild membership was much more common and pugs less common in the old days, GF for better or worse has done a lot to dry up "casual" guilds that in the past were really needed to raid |
| 01:33.06 | Elmoe | tinystomper: true but we're getting far afield now haha |
| 01:33.08 | Gnarfoz | I can't say I agree at all, by looking at my realm. |
| 01:33.45 | Elmoe | tinystomper: I would stick to suggestions #2 and #3 as I think those can be more objectively evaluated |
| 01:33.55 | Guill | Aftermathh: Are you talking about the scenario stage background? |
| 01:34.08 | Gnarfoz | maybe you have access to actual data that supports more people are seriously raiding content using the group finder, than wit a guild |
| 01:34.15 | tinystomper | it comes back to groups and people having more of a stake in their reputation. (and i haven't even touched on leadership rank that should be awarded) |
| 01:34.39 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: yeah I mean anecdote is anecdote but before the rise of GF it felt like the need for organized raiding was much greater to down any content at all particularly on anything but the larger realms |
| 01:35.06 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: sadly I think only blizzard has access to such data |
| 01:36.00 | Aftermathh | @Guill yes indeed |
| 01:36.02 | tinystomper | that is something people found with oQueue. since they could find a mythic raid on a friday night, they relied on their guilds less then before |
| 01:36.17 | Gnarfoz | they could do the very same with the group finder even then, though. |
| 01:36.52 | Guill | Aftermathh: Try ScenarioStageBlock.NormalBG:Hide() |
| 01:37.13 | tinystomper | today's GF does allow you to find a group... BUT you have no idea about the leader or his progression. similarly, the leader knows nothing about you. it's all just a random group |
| 01:37.33 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: there was no built in cross realm group finder until this xpac right? |
| 01:37.58 | znf | it's been there since mop? |
| 01:37.59 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I remember the old group finder which I think they added in wrath? but that was not cross realm afaik |
| 01:38.05 | Gnarfoz | the group finder is older than you think |
| 01:38.14 | kd3 | the 3.3 groupfinder was definitely crossrealm |
| 01:38.14 | Gnarfoz | and mythic raids aren't xrealm anyway |
| 01:38.19 | tinystomper | there was no x-realm group finder until wod. |
| 01:38.22 | Elmoe | kd3: oh really? |
| 01:38.41 | Elmoe | kd3: I tried to use it a few times to explore the UX but it had no players ever listed |
| 01:38.52 | *** join/#wowuidev xmyno (~xmyno@46.101.230.100) |
| 01:38.52 | Elmoe | maybe it was just a discovery issue |
| 01:39.03 | kd3 | sorry, I conflated the group finder with the LFD added in 3.3 |
| 01:39.45 | kd3 | (they were different back then) |
| 01:39.47 | tinystomper | that was the point of oQueue's mesh network... to create the ability to form groups from any realm |
| 01:40.10 | Elmoe | yeah I thought oqueue was the first cross realm, the in game one existed (I thought added in 3.3 with LFD) but I think was just within your realm |
| 01:40.40 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: my point was on smaller realms pre-cross realm group finder there weren't many PUGs so it drove participation in organized raiding even for very casual players (this was also pre-LFR) |
| 01:40.50 | tinystomper | oqueue users in europe are still miffed, as they can only see groups from their language group |
| 01:41.08 | Gnarfoz | that's not true |
| 01:41.13 | tinystomper | did they change that? |
| 01:41.18 | Gnarfoz | I did. |
| 01:41.20 | Elmoe | tinystomper: hmm really? I am in the US and it lets me select other language realms like spanish and portugese |
| 01:41.21 | Guill | tinystomper: On European servers there's a language button where you can select which languages you want to see |
| 01:41.25 | tinystomper | when? |
| 01:41.43 | Elmoe | I only see the option with pre-made filter addon though not sure it is in the default UI |
| 01:41.44 | Gnarfoz | https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/any-language-lfg |
| 01:41.57 | Elmoe | but I like it because it gives you more groups and my better half speaks spanish so its a non-issue to join a non-english speaking group |
| 01:41.58 | Gnarfoz | (ok, that just opens up all the checkboxes :P) |
| 01:42.07 | Guill | Elmoe: That functionality doesn't actually do anything on NA servers. Just EU. |
| 01:42.08 | Gnarfoz | (normall you can't deselect your own language) |
| 01:42.21 | Elmoe | Guill: then how am I joining portugese groups and spanish groups? |
| 01:42.35 | Guill | Elmoe: On NA servers, everyone sees all groups regardless of language iirc |
| 01:42.45 | Guill | So you can't *disable* seeing other languages |
| 01:42.45 | Elmoe | oh by default you mean? |
| 01:42.55 | kd3 | even though blizz likes to call it 'NA', it's properly the americas and oceanic |
| 01:43.10 | Elmoe | pre-made filter gives you checkboxes to disable but I've never used them to be honest because I like having full selection |
| 01:43.25 | Gnarfoz | well, they're useless for that region, apparently. :D |
| 01:43.29 | Elmoe | hah |
| 01:44.09 | tinystomper | we use to get some EU players in the pubvent once in a while... and they would talk about being in groups w/ multiple languages (english, italian, french, german, russian). they loved it |
| 01:44.12 | Gnarfoz | kd3: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Raid_Browser links a 5.4.2 patch note about the "cross realm raid browser" to the old "other raids" thing. is that wrongly associated? badly worded patch note? because if neither, then that tool was x-realm before WoD. |
| 01:44.41 | kd3 | 5.4.2 made the semi-hidden raid finder, which wasn't part of group finder, cross-realm |
| 01:44.52 | tinystomper | of course, i also allowed the group to show an EU flag if it was multi-lingual... and if it was a specific langauge (ie: russian), the leader would pick a russian flag |
| 01:44.52 | Elmoe | tinystomper: I like it because the language is not a barrier for me but honestly there is an unfortunate lack of patience from many Americans wrt non-english speakers |
| 01:44.58 | kd3 | I remember rareCoordinator having to get patched to handle that |
| 01:45.31 | Elmoe | kd3: ah ok so it was 5.4.2 but that raid finder thing I think came with LFD in 3.3 right? |
| 01:45.45 | kd3 | https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dungeon_Finder#History |
| 01:45.58 | tinystomper | elmoe, while that's true, its generally not the case in european groups |
| 01:46.17 | Elmoe | tinystomper: glad to hear that |
| 01:46.22 | tinystomper | in the US, i found very few groups were multi-lingual. almost all were us english |
| 01:46.23 | kd3 | not to be conflated with https://wow.gamepedia.com/Raid_Browser |
| 01:46.40 | Elmoe | tinystomper: yeah, spanish or portugese groups don't seem to mind english but the other way sadly not :/ |
| 01:46.47 | tinystomper | ^ |
| 01:47.17 | Elmoe | kd3: yeah the raid browser that is what they added in 3.3 that I was thinking of which was not cross realm |
| 01:47.27 | tinystomper | the most fascinating thing i found while doign oQ was the leadership ratio |
| 01:47.45 | Guill | tinystomper: As I said, people on European servers can already enable viewing groups in other languages. |
| 01:47.48 | Ssateneth | [8:40:10pm] <Elmoe> yeah I thought oqueue was the first cross realm, the in game one existed (I thought added in 3.3 with LFD) but I think was just within your realm |
| 01:47.59 | tinystomper | in the US, the number of players to leaders was usually 25:1 ... for every 25 players, 1 would start up a group and lead it. |
| 01:48.11 | tinystomper | in the EU... that number was typically... 100:1 |
| 01:48.20 | tinystomper | i'm not sure why |
| 01:48.36 | Gnarfoz | not arrogant enough to think you'd be able to lead? :> |
| 01:48.41 | tinystomper | guill, really? excellent |
| 01:48.47 | Gnarfoz | or just bad! who knows. |
| 01:48.52 | Ssateneth | oops bad copy pasta |
| 01:49.02 | Elmoe | tinystomper: was the total participation rate in EU much higher though? |
| 01:49.10 | tinystomper | @guill: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20744254379 |
| 01:49.24 | Gnarfoz | (they should have really started the server merges earlier, none of this would have gotten so terrible) |
| 01:50.16 | tinystomper | according to the scorekeeper... which had max'd out its data capacity by the time wod dropped... the number of oQ users in the EU and the US were fairly close |
| 01:50.41 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: fully agreed, I imagine it was the typical case of making the wrong tradeoff between tech debt and feature work so they didn't invest in the connected realm technology early enough |
| 01:50.54 | tinystomper | either way, the math was #players / # leader ==> ratio |
| 01:50.56 | Gnarfoz | needed time to come up with a solution that wouldn't scream "wow is dying!!111" as loud as the players on empty realms, though. ;-) |
| 01:51.11 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: connected realms are a sham, though |
| 01:51.29 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: its better than before but far from ideal |
| 01:51.38 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I actually raided on The Underbog for awhile in BC, holy crap |
| 01:51.47 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: one of those servers where no guild ever got realm first heh |
| 01:52.06 | Gnarfoz | ok? does it have a reputation for that? ^^ |
| 01:52.51 | Elmoe | just an example of a realm that was created during the BC boom and needed a realm merge much sooner than end of MoP hah |
| 01:53.01 | Gnarfoz | (in any case, I was referring to the technicality that they're really merges with the caveat that names weren't merged -- because having to deal with duplicate names would have been a nightmare) |
| 01:53.24 | Guill | tinystomper: As I said, I'm not really the right person to talk about design decisions. I will point out that Group Finder is already region-wide, and not just datacenter-wide though. |
| 01:54.03 | Gnarfoz | we fled from our initial realm in 2012, I think, in preparation for MoP |
| 01:54.08 | Gnarfoz | no more realm firsts for us. ;) |
| 01:54.09 | tinystomper | kk. but if that's tghe case, the number of groups i'm seeing on the GF is *really* low |
| 01:54.55 | Gnarfoz | (but also actual people on the realm to be able to recruit and stuff) |
| 01:55.01 | Guill | tinystomper: What do you mean by "really low"? |
| 01:55.01 | tinystomper | one thing we found was by keeping the groups listed while they were in-content, it gave a sense of 'things going on' |
| 01:55.33 | tinystomper | let me log in and check ... one sec |
| 01:56.06 | Gnarfoz | "Thunder Clap will now more reliably hit targets near the edge of its radius." -- I feel like I've seen that patch note before... :D |
| 01:56.22 | Guill | Also, what's your item level? It doesn't show groups that you don't meet the requirements of. |
| 01:57.42 | tinystomper | ok, so it'd be tough for me to gauge how many there really are if they're pre-filtered by ilevel. (i'm wearing i710 atm) |
| 01:57.57 | Elmoe | Guill: is not including full armory information from C_LFGList.GetApplicationMemberStats() a technical limitation or a design decision? |
| 01:59.05 | tinystomper | on top of that, we're between seasons so i won't see arena or rbgs. bgs is almost always empty (except the hydra premade groups) |
| 01:59.52 | Guill | tinystomper: Not just item level, but as much as possible that decides whether you're eligible. Item level, instance locks, ignores, etc. |
| 02:00.10 | kd3 | ye gods this realmlag is ridiculous. halfway reminded of AQ |
| 02:00.24 | Elmoe | kd3: doing invasions? |
| 02:00.52 | kd3 | yup, well, was, just got to phase 3 and azshara crashed again |
| 02:00.57 | tinystomper | ah. so anyone that might be gearing up would see very little content |
| 02:01.37 | tinystomper | while i understand that, it doesn't give a sense of 'things going on' for the user leveling/gearing up |
| 02:01.38 | kd3 | and now it's in tanaris!? |
| 02:01.47 | Guill | Elmoe: A combination of the two. |
| 02:01.55 | Ressy | kd3: AQ was worse. It was a slideshow. |
| 02:02.02 | Gnarfoz | kd3: do your (Azerothian) civic duty https://twitter.com/kurtismcc/status/763846272830746624 |
| 02:02.05 | kd3 | I know. I was on Medivh, world #1 |
| 02:02.27 | Elmoe | Guill: k thanks, anytime I see data in the armory but not returns in the stats table it just feels like adding latency to the group leader that is inefficient but I can appreciate if its technically challenging to add that armory info into the stats table |
| 02:02.30 | Guill | My framerate wasn't too bad during AQ opening. Then again, I was stuck on a boat floating under Stoneridge Mountains... |
| 02:02.34 | Gnarfoz | kd3: USA USA US... oh |
| 02:02.37 | Ressy | LMAO |
| 02:02.56 | tinystomper | maybe show the content (darkened if not qualified) with maybe a checkbox to remove the unqualified groups |
| 02:03.17 | Ressy | I was lvl 20, and hoofing it to the gates. Ended up dead, and watching the gates open on a friends computer beside me. Also slideshow. He was also dead. |
| 02:03.26 | Elmoe | Ressy: still epic though, moments from the AQ quest line are things I will never forget! |
| 02:03.46 | Ressy | That was awesome to watch. |
| 02:03.52 | Gnarfoz | I hope that the invasion lag is not an indicator for launch... (it probably is, though) |
| 02:04.07 | Ressy | The server gods are working on it. |
| 02:04.14 | Gnarfoz | they have been for two years. |
| 02:04.23 | Gnarfoz | shrugs |
| 02:04.39 | Torhal | Don't be such a negative gnancy. |
| 02:04.41 | Torhal | >.> |
| 02:04.56 | Gnarfoz | I know it's not easy and if it's as bad as WoD, then it'll be so |
| 02:05.32 | Gnarfoz | still had fun trying to even get anything to work at all, fight with only mobs in a 3-yard bubble around you |
| 02:05.33 | tinystomper | one thing i noticed being done on the UI was a 'battle dust' kind of thing. basically, where loads of players were fighting, it was blurring what you could see, thereby reducing the depth of the data being sent on each toon |
| 02:05.37 | Elmoe | wish they'd do a panel at blizzcon discussing the new sharding architecture |
| 02:05.40 | tinystomper | that was a nice move |
| 02:05.45 | Gnarfoz | we mostly leveled through treasures |
| 02:06.06 | tinystomper | (assuming it reduced bandwidth... i didn't check) |
| 02:06.16 | Gnarfoz | if you mean the reduced spell effects for raids |
| 02:06.23 | Gnarfoz | that's so players can see what's going on |
| 02:06.48 | Gnarfoz | (and is not part of the UI, nor does it reduce what the client knows, hopefully. CLEU is as spammy as ever.) |
| 02:06.56 | tinystomper | i'd spin it like the fog of war and call it 'battle dust' |
| 02:07.16 | tinystomper | CLEU is nutz |
| 02:08.07 | Elmoe | yes I hate the fact that I have to listen to it but unavoidable to implement certain things |
| 02:08.29 | Elmoe | like there is this problem right now for disc priests where the atonement aura is applied with some lag |
| 02:08.58 | tinystomper | whatever you do, don't do /etrace while in a 40 man av with all 80 at a choke |
| 02:09.44 | Gnarfoz | Torhal: I'm sure US also had realms as bad as mine, but 3800+ queue for days straight was a bit harsh, also considering that it barely worked when you got in. :D I'm glad /those/ issues were fixed, and in the grand scheme of things, it didn't even take them that long. Now they have new tech designed specifically to handle this, and it's having issues before it's even prime time -- so I hope they can make it work... if not, I'll enjoy the |
| 02:09.44 | Gnarfoz | explosions and eat popcorn. ^^ |
| 02:10.30 | Elmoe | so when the event UNIT_SPELL_EXCEEDED fires the atonement buff isn't present yet and users were complaining that my addon was "lagging" because it had to wait for the timer to refresh the hots |
| 02:10.51 | Elmoe | so had to use CLEU and listen to SPELL_AURA_APPLIED |
| 02:11.15 | Torhal | Exploding popcorn? |
| 02:11.18 | Gnarfoz | (probably not actually popcorn, junk food is not a good idea for powerleveling) |
| 02:11.24 | tinystomper | i wonder... would there still be massive lag if blizz disabled CLEU to addons and turned off local battle logs to everyone in the area? |
| 02:11.30 | Gnarfoz | Torhal: technically, all popcorn was exploded at some point! ^^ |
| 02:11.33 | Torhal | :O |
| 02:12.07 | Gnarfoz | the client has to know what's going on, can't just turn it off |
| 02:12.16 | Elmoe | tinystomper: does the default UI Lua use CLEU? certainly that would break tons of addon functionality |
| 02:12.41 | Gnarfoz | easy enough to check the visible parts of it |
| 02:13.32 | tinystomper | the default ui might not need everything. maybe it could re-tract the zone in which data would be sent to the user. instead of 100yds it would restrict to 50yds with loads of 'dust' kicking up |
| 02:13.54 | Gnarfoz | no thanks |
| 02:14.07 | Gnarfoz | don't want to go back to classic with combatlog ranges. |
| 02:14.20 | tinystomper | i'm not really talking about the impact to the local client, tho it wold be impacted... i'm thinking of the servers and the data thjey're trying to send out |
| 02:14.31 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: answer is: doesn't look like it, except for one weird hack in Blizzard_TutorialLogic |
| 02:14.52 | Elmoe | tinystomper: as Gnarfoz points out it used to be like that with the combatlog range to some extent |
| 02:14.53 | Gnarfoz | I doubt it's a networking issue, that's easy enough to scale up |
| 02:14.58 | tinystomper | gnarfoz, i mean in situations where the number of players in a small area start to increase... it'd be a scaling technique |
| 02:15.03 | Elmoe | tinystomper: but that led to a very frustrating UX with addons |
| 02:15.22 | Guill | To a large extent, the same messages from the server that trigger CLEU also cause everything you see in the 3D world to happen (animations, spell effects, etc.) |
| 02:16.10 | Elmoe | Guill: I think his point is when you reach a certain level of visual clutter you don't need to see those things happening in the 3d world at all hence the 'dust of war' metaphor |
| 02:16.15 | Gnarfoz | the server is not sending both the data the game itself uses and a separate stream of CLEU data, is it |
| 02:16.21 | tinystomper | but if the player is in the middle of the pile of people... like a big event... and 'dust' is coming up around him/her ... that would allow the server to restrict the amount going to those players |
| 02:16.30 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: but that's already in place, it's a purely visual thing |
| 02:17.07 | Gnarfoz | I'm not convinced it's a network issue, bandwidth is cheap |
| 02:17.11 | tinystomper | gnarfoz, i'm fairly cretain it's the same stream just rendered differently |
| 02:17.26 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: yeah do they do that? does it dynamically adjust spell effects based on density? |
| 02:17.34 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: it does now |
| 02:17.44 | Elmoe | ah cool |
| 02:18.14 | Gnarfoz | not sure if that even applies outside of raid instances, though :O |
| 02:18.17 | tinystomper | the lag issues usually arent local. it's usually server side |
| 02:19.15 | Gnarfoz | pretty likely. hence the network probably isn't the problem |
| 02:19.17 | tinystomper | tho i haven't seen it in a while, city raids would have a similar effect as a raid with 50-100 players in an area sending emots and firing spells |
| 02:19.22 | Elmoe | Guill: if you're sending feedback be sure to mention how many of us engineers go to blizzcon and would love a developer panel that showcased some architecture :) |
| 02:19.51 | Gnarfoz | behind the scenes tech is kind of "trade secrets" territory... don't expect much? :p |
| 02:19.54 | Guill | Elmoe: I'll definitely pass that along. The mini engineering panel last year was pretty well-received though, so I would hope something like that is happening again. |
| 02:20.02 | Ressy | it was VERY well received. |
| 02:20.09 | Gnarfoz | at least we got to know why the backpack is still small! ^^ |
| 02:20.15 | Ressy | heh.. yeah |
| 02:20.24 | Elmoe | Guill: yeah I missed that unfortunately but will try to steer the better half towards that this year if she'll let me :) |
| 02:20.33 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: watch it on yt |
| 02:20.49 | Ressy | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx_C7LkB1Q8 |
| 02:21.15 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: is it really trade secrets though? I'll be honest I'm not in the game industry but in the broader industry we file patents and then speak at places like re|invent |
| 02:21.19 | Gnarfoz | it wasn't an on-stage panel, so they only way to have experienced it would have been to be there (or watch a recording like that one ^^) |
| 02:21.32 | kd3 | or my live-tweeting, which admittedly missed a few questions |
| 02:21.41 | Gnarfoz | I followed that \o/ |
| 02:21.45 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: trade secrets seem so antiquated like the mystical coca cola formula haha |
| 02:22.06 | tinystomper | did they ever enable the ability to pull up another player's model in game if the person wasn't in the area? |
| 02:22.32 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: other MMOs just get by by being smaller. ;P you bet they'd like a look at the inner workings of this behemoth |
| 02:22.45 | Elmoe | ahh watching now |
| 02:22.47 | Elmoe | I remember the problem |
| 02:22.54 | tinystomper | trade secrets are huge... until you are. even then, depending on the barriers to reproduce, they can be closely guarded |
| 02:22.55 | Elmoe | I think I did get her over there but it was super crowded |
| 02:23.05 | Elmoe | having it in a real mini stage would be better if possible |
| 02:23.52 | Elmoe | tinystomper: in my experience we don't rely on trade secrets, we use patents, do you honestly see trade secrets for software used heavily? |
| 02:23.54 | kd3 | hopefully it'll be bigger next year, but I kinda liked the intimate feel of it. I actually got to ask a question |
| 02:24.19 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: every closed-source software is one, isn't it? |
| 02:24.32 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: not if you patent the novel parts of it |
| 02:24.38 | Gnarfoz | also, software patents are the devil (and don't even exist in many parts of the world) |
| 02:24.46 | tinystomper | patents are only as strong as your legal team... and rarely enforced beyond the boarders. kinda rough on the internet |
| 02:25.05 | Elmoe | don't disagree but trade secrets you have zero legal resource at all for IP theft |
| 02:25.13 | Elmoe | if someone manages to get the coca cola formula thats it |
| 02:25.16 | tinystomper | these days, it's less patents and trade secrets and more rush to marketshare |
| 02:25.30 | Elmoe | with a patent you agree to disclose the IP after a given time window for the larger community |
| 02:25.31 | kd3 | eh... didn't pepsi nearly get it, but helped coke and the fbi set up a sting? |
| 02:25.47 | Gnarfoz | not sure what you think I wanted to imply by saying "trade secret"... I just meant "I doubt they're willing to share that". |
| 02:25.53 | Elmoe | tinystomper: patents are still a huge part of the industry in the US at least |
| 02:26.15 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I deal with quite a bit of patent law, trade secret has like a formal meaning sorry |
| 02:26.36 | tinystomper | if your company is in a first world country whose business is also mainly in that area, then patents are diamonds and help set the value of your company. |
| 02:26.54 | tinystomper | otherwise, your network and marketshare is the deciding factor |
| 02:27.05 | pnorman | Elmoe: trade secrets are frequently used as a threat but aren't really that relevant for something released publicly. |
| 02:28.23 | tinystomper | it's very annoying to put out software only to have it cracked an uploaded to an offshore site. |
| 02:28.43 | pnorman | of course threats frequently contain references to copyright, trade secrets, trademarks, patents, contracts, and whatever else they think they can throw at the wall |
| 02:29.03 | pnorman | tinystomper: that sounds like copyright, not trade secrets. |
| 02:29.20 | tinystomper | those threats are only as valid as your willingness to plunk down the cash and see them realized |
| 02:29.43 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: my point was after you've filed patents on a particular piece of software then you can pretty easily present publically around the parts you've patented because the details are publically disclosed, this is why when you go to a conference like re|invent you'll see people speak around architectural aspects of parts of AWS, they aren't worried about leaking "trade secrets" because they've already publically disclosed the novel art in a patent which |
| 02:29.43 | Elmoe | is legally defensible for infringement in the first world |
| 02:30.06 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: was more curious if in the game industry this wasn't a thing since I have no experience |
| 02:30.16 | Gnarfoz | s/in the first world/in that country/, tbh |
| 02:30.34 | Elmoe | in the country where you have the patent if that country is legit yeah |
| 02:31.01 | pnorman | Elmoe: it's all copyright infringement (for copying cracked versions of games) and TOS/EULA for emulating a client connecting their servers (e.g. pretending to be WoW) |
| 02:31.40 | Elmoe | pnorman: oh sorry I wasn't referring to that thread of discussion, just clarifying what I meant earlier to Gnarfoz |
| 02:31.45 | tinystomper | look at wow and the priv servers. the client is copyrighted and blizz has gone to great lengths to try and stop those people. its a *huge* pita |
| 02:32.02 | Gnarfoz | they seem to be succeeding, in general, though |
| 02:32.16 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I used first world btw because those seem to be the countries where patents are actually enforcable from my experience heh |
| 02:32.18 | pnorman | is on a shared mailbox for a DMCA registered agent and gets all sorts of weird legal stuff |
| 02:33.50 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: so... still. why would they present how they do stuff if they don't want a pserver hosted in <somewhere else> to optimize their stuff? (not to mention that some allegedly have better performance than the real thing, but that's probably because they're incomplete in non-obvious ways) |
| 02:34.12 | tinystomper | it's funny how pirating and the internet has driven software off the desktop and into a thin-client/server model. tho, now with the app stores on the desktop, it could be returning |
| 02:34.28 | Gnarfoz | I'm sure how exactly to set up their databases is a huge thing, and also a huge hurdle for imitators |
| 02:34.42 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I'd imagine private servers are much more about reverse engineering the wire format than understanding the underlying architecture of something like sharding |
| 02:34.51 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: private servers are small enough they shouldn't even need sharding tech I would imagine |
| 02:34.52 | tinystomper | ^ |
| 02:35.08 | Gnarfoz | look at the most recent one, it was bigger than many realms during classic. |
| 02:35.13 | Gnarfoz | (and I don't think you should be able to patent a bunch of Oracle parameters...) |
| 02:35.16 | tinystomper | tho, tbh ... some of those private realms have a large user base |
| 02:35.29 | pnorman | tinystomper: they generally go after that as a matter of contract law with the TOS/EULA. Many EULAs are questionable because they attempt to apply additional restrictions to something you have bought, which doesn't work everywhere. Something like WoW has a client/server model where you're paying a subscription so an EULA is easier to make stand up |
| 02:35.41 | Gnarfoz | "app stores on the desktop" is not a thing, yet. |
| 02:35.47 | tinystomper | (and no, i've never logged into one... was told by pubvent users and reading articles recently) |
| 02:36.17 | Gnarfoz | don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. it's PROGRAMS all the way for most everyone, not fancy "apps"! :P |
| 02:36.20 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: I would be shocked if wow servers use a RDBMS haha |
| 02:36.25 | Elmoe | that would be hilarious though |
| 02:36.26 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: they use Oracle |
| 02:36.29 | Elmoe | wow |
| 02:36.33 | Elmoe | incredibly |
| 02:36.47 | Elmoe | and suddenly the scaling issues make sense haha |
| 02:36.50 | Gnarfoz | of course it's unclear to what extent and for what particular purpose... but that's the kind of thing I doubt they'll ever share. |
| 02:36.58 | tinystomper | gnarfoz, i was referring to win10 and their appstore (i'm still on win7 until it coughs up the ghost) |
| 02:37.11 | Gnarfoz | win 8 and 8.1 had the same app store, it's nigh-useless. |
| 02:37.23 | pnorman | Elmoe: I'd agree, but aside from the wire format you have to build a world and all of the back-end logic. I'd guess that part is harder. |
| 02:37.41 | Gnarfoz | maybe with the new UWP platform, a few more devs will jump on it, but I have my doubts. my PC is not a smartphone and I don't want it to become one. :D |
| 02:37.53 | tinystomper | actually, pnorman, that's not as difficult as you'd imagine |
| 02:38.11 | Elmoe | pnorman: oh sure my point was just that giving an presentation on the sharding arch at blizzcon wouldn't make it somehow easier to build private servers if blizzard was worried about that aspect |
| 02:38.31 | tinystomper | wow isn't a fps, it doesn't have to determine collisons and then dmg. it knows the source and dest and the locations of both |
| 02:39.03 | Gnarfoz | FPS servers also know all of those things |
| 02:39.17 | pnorman | Elmoe: It might be all they use Oracle for is payment-related stuff. Or they could use it extensively. I don't like Oracle, but it's not an odd choice for for some parts of what WoW has to do |
| 02:39.39 | tinystomper | blizz may not want to talk about sharding as they still compete against other companies for various games (tho their new games are typically small encounters now) |
| 02:39.55 | Elmoe | pnorman: all depends on scale |
| 02:40.06 | Elmoe | pnorman: even for something payment related it doesn't scale |
| 02:40.14 | Gnarfoz | nah, it at least WAS used for the game, it's been 12 years since /release/, things might have moved |
| 02:40.25 | Gnarfoz | Oracle can scale just fine |
| 02:40.25 | Elmoe | but blizzards transactions are a drop in the bucket compared to some others |
| 02:40.35 | Gnarfoz | it's just massively expensive ^^ |
| 02:40.42 | pnorman | Gnarfoz: yep. |
| 02:40.59 | tinystomper | true, but a fps server would have to determine, step by step, if a bullet collides with a randomly moving object (player) and decide dmg. the wow model doesn't have to do any of that |
| 02:41.39 | Elmoe | tinystomper: makes you wonder how much harder it was to build the terra engine since it had real collision mechanics in combat correct? |
| 02:41.40 | Gnarfoz | sure, they do different things. however, FPS just run a simulation server-side and tell your client if what it think happened, actually happened |
| 02:42.16 | tinystomper | i think wows biggest issue is splash effects. any aoe healing or dmg would have to given to targets within range... and then sent to all clients |
| 02:42.33 | Gnarfoz | (they removed auras for a reason) |
| 02:42.46 | Gnarfoz | (but I doubt it was networking-related |
| 02:43.04 | pnorman | I suppose it depends on where they've put the boundary between client and server. I know in D2 days a lot of stuff was on the client, and you also had a client-only implementation for offline. In WoW they've moved more stuff onto the server for anti-hacking reasons, so you need more logic on the server |
| 02:43.17 | Gnarfoz | more like the hundreds and thousands of events the client would get spammed with, which in turn bogged down addons trying to process them |
| 02:43.54 | pnorman | splash effects might be hard to do while maintaining performance, but the logic doesn't seem complicated. tbh, none of the logic is probably too complicated, but there's a lot of it |
| 02:44.48 | tinystomper | i think the solution for splash effects would be to use gpus to calculate the effects instead of a server thread |
| 02:44.57 | Gnarfoz | (what's particularly hard about casting X on targets abcdef -- the decision if X actually did anything to acbdef happens on the server anyway, so it can tell you and a, b, d, e, and f at the same time that it did) |
| 02:45.07 | Gnarfoz | gpus? what |
| 02:45.07 | tinystomper | elmoe... i'm unfamiliar with the terra engine |
| 02:45.32 | tinystomper | http://www.nvidia.com/object/what-is-gpu-computing.html |
| 02:45.36 | Elmoe | tinystomper: I think they actually have collision mechanics for combat (eg. you aim and have to actually hit the target) I could be wrong though |
| 02:45.37 | Gnarfoz | ...no |
| 02:45.38 | Gnarfoz | just no. |
| 02:45.55 | tinystomper | in terra? interesting |
| 02:46.03 | pnorman | if a private server is emulating an old version of WoW it comes with a big performance advantage - WoW was simpler then and hardware has advanced a decade. |
| 02:46.35 | Gnarfoz | I meant, under the assumption you meant client-side GPUs, that this doesn't make any sense. |
| 02:46.53 | tinystomper | i think splash effects could be determined quickly using gpus ... problem is still relaying all of it to the client |
| 02:47.06 | tinystomper | ah |
| 02:47.08 | Gnarfoz | if they want to use many-parallel-cores (GPU or otherwise), then I bet they would |
| 02:47.10 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: he means GPGPU on the server |
| 02:47.13 | Gnarfoz | so...? |
| 02:47.22 | Gnarfoz | GPGPU is part of the server |
| 02:47.26 | Gnarfoz | if it is being used |
| 02:47.31 | Gnarfoz | he sead "instead of" oO |
| 02:48.03 | Gnarfoz | just confused how that would work, not by the server, but still on the server with a GPU? ^^ |
| 02:48.39 | tinystomper | an interesting thought would be to send down the effects (1 tick per second for 3 seconds; dmg = A, B, C)... that would be the only message from the server regarding that event, unless interrupoted |
| 02:48.45 | Gnarfoz | (not to mention we have no idea if this particular tech helps for what they need to do) |
| 02:49.01 | pnorman | blizzard could be using gpgpu. their servers are a black box to us. Personally, I doubt it. GPGPU is good for certain problems but very bad at most |
| 02:49.08 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: hence why some architectural presentations at blizzcon would be welcome :) |
| 02:49.18 | Gnarfoz | what happens when before tick 2 of that, someone uses a cooldown that boosts the dmg/healing of that spell? |
| 02:49.38 | Gnarfoz | Elmoe: I doubt it's a "crowd-source our server-tech" event |
| 02:50.15 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: there is a balance |
| 02:50.19 | tinystomper | then that would be an update to be sent. which might be 20% of the time |
| 02:50.27 | Elmoe | Gnarfoz: watch the ARC tracks from Re|invent if you want to see a pretty good balance to strike imho |
| 02:50.59 | pnorman | the best way to get a high-level overview of what is done on the client and what requires the server is to see what you can do when your connection is hanging due to lag |
| 02:51.03 | Gnarfoz | us random internet people do not need to tell them which flavor of the month tech they should be using ;) (imho similar to armchair game designers, who just need to diaf already. :P) |
| 02:51.41 | tinystomper | sorry, isn't this a developers room? |
| 02:51.59 | Gnarfoz | ? |
| 02:52.16 | Gnarfoz | tinystomper: this is like row-based replication vs. statement-based replication on a RDBMS... guess which one has higher performance... (it's the former) |
| 02:52.23 | kd3 | addon developers? sure |
| 02:52.36 | kd3 | or people who run addon websites |
| 02:52.40 | tinystomper | discussing the various algorithms that could be used would be the type of thing to be discussed in here, no? |
| 02:52.57 | pnorman | developing addons is a different skillset to backend server development. |
| 02:53.14 | tinystomper | most of my dev experience has been writing servers |
| 02:53.17 | Elmoe | pnorman: yet many add-on authors have interest and experience in both |
| 02:53.30 | Gnarfoz | sounds like a good combination for a job application. ;) |
| 02:53.39 | Elmoe | I mean I get that today has been some hours of off topic but it was a lively and interesting discuss in my not so humble opinion :) |
| 02:53.57 | tinystomper | better then boring silence |
| 02:54.06 | Elmoe | but time to play some OW |
| 02:54.10 | Elmoe | nice chatting with you all though |
| 02:54.26 | tinystomper | . /wave |
| 02:55.44 | mckenziemc1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:55.55 | pnorman | Elmoe: interest, I'd agree with. Experience, not so much. I actually have much more experience with back-end development than addons, where I've really only written a few hundred lines of code. |
| 02:56.59 | Elmoe | pnorman: same I'm really an addon "maintainer" not an author by any means |
| 02:58.29 | pnorman | speaking of backend architecture, I'm off to sketch out some in my notebook and diagram out my rough notes. |
| 03:04.11 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (sid18093@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 03:04.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Codetraptor (sid69165@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdcmezubvebcbolw) |
| 03:13.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Ketho (~Ketho@ip565063bd.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 03:14.16 | *** join/#wowuidev mukunda (mukunda@adsl-68-19-150-158.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:16.49 | mukunda | If a client doesn't use RegisterAddonMessagePrefix for, say, prefix "xyz", will their client still invisibly receive those kinds of messages? or are those not sent to them by the server? |
| 03:20.51 | mukunda | I'm wondering how channel addon messages work regarding prefixes, and if it's an OK idea to use a really-popular channel (hundreds of users) for my protocol, considering that the server/clients might handle it easily if the messages are only distributed among people who have registered for them. |
| 03:24.36 | mukunda | It actually looks like that's the case, looking at the API description on wowprogramming. |
| 03:24.54 | tinystomper | mukunda, do you intend to send the msgs only to players on your realm or other realms? |
| 03:25.06 | mukunda | Just my realm. |
| 03:25.41 | tinystomper | in that case, you want to always specify your addons prefix when sending data |
| 03:26.18 | tinystomper | if a player doesn't have your addon, they will not register to recv those msgs. |
| 03:27.02 | tinystomper | it's been a while, but i think the msg size limitation was either 10k or 40k in the addon channel |
| 03:29.34 | mukunda | And, you're saying that if they don't register, then their client won't get any traffic increase from other people using my addon? (i.e. getting junk messages and simply discarding them) |
| 03:30.10 | tinystomper | yes, that is correct. that was the point of creating the addon channels |
| 03:30.51 | tinystomper | (this was in response to another addon sending data via chat channels in-realm and over bnet for x-realm) |
| 03:30.52 | Rythal | if traffic increased with every addon that uses addon channels... it would be overwhelming crash the client traffic by now |
| 03:34.11 | tinystomper | one thing you can do, when you get the first message of the day, it should trigger: 'DoEmote('hail') ;' .... it's wildly popular |
| 03:34.48 | mckenziemc1 | o.o |
| 03:38.01 | mukunda | Alright cool, this seems like a horrible design decision, abusing a public channel which is meant for small roleplaying addon messages, but if my messages are separated then it's all good. :^) |
| 03:38.33 | tinystomper | you could make it work like a chat channel, if you want |
| 03:38.56 | tinystomper | that would just be one of the many msg-ids going thru the channel |
| 03:49.26 | *** join/#wowuidev diesal (~quassel@110-174-123-122.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 03:55.30 | Ssateneth | I facepalm at anyone that does automatic ingame emotes. |
| 03:57.49 | pnorman | Ssateneth: do you do it automatically? |
| 04:00.51 | Ssateneth | Well I typically activate the chatbox, do a forward slash, and type in the emote name and hit enter, then let blizzard code take it from there. |
| 04:01.06 | Ssateneth | I don't use any addons to autonamously emote whenever they feel like it. |
| 04:02.15 | Ssateneth | Especially cringey auto-emotes are the ones that some hunters use to custom emote their pets. |
| 04:05.30 | Ssateneth | But hey... I guess if theres money in it and some people knowingly or unknowingly want to be cringey, the addons will be made. Or the author likes being cringey, w/e |
| 04:05.38 | Ssateneth | <.< |
| 04:05.52 | Ssateneth | is done venting. |
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| 04:16.35 | Fisker | drops the hug on Cairenn |
| 04:16.44 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
| 04:29.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Elmoe (~Elmoe@24.18.131.251) |
| 04:29.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@195-252-56-181-no191.business.telia.com) |
| 04:34.47 | Freddie | Ssateneth: how do you feel about summoning a steed from nightmare? |
| 04:36.25 | Torhal | I feel like having a working show/hide checkbox on the NPC filters, actually, Freddie. |
| 04:36.26 | Torhal | hides. |
| 04:36.55 | Freddie | the last time I had to fix a checkbox it turned out that if you turned it on, saved it, then turned it off, saved it, it would count as on |
| 04:37.00 | Freddie | I don't want to go in there again :( |
| 04:38.48 | Torhal | But it's completely broken! |
| 04:39.16 | Ssateneth | Freddie pls |
| 04:39.24 | Ssateneth | Freddie no |
| 04:39.26 | Ssateneth | Freddie y |
| 04:39.39 | Torhal | Freddie: http://www.wowdb.com/npcs <-- NPCs with nothing in the zone column, at least, shouldn't show unless the "Show Hidden NPCS?" checkbox is checked. That checkbox does nothing. |
| 04:39.58 | Torhal | I say you get Ssateneth on the job, personally. |
| 04:40.38 | Ssateneth | dies |
| 04:41.26 | Torhal | No, you can't just call of dead; we don't accept that. |
| 04:41.29 | Torhal | off* |
| 04:42.39 | Ssateneth | godmodding and stuff |
| 04:56.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-94-237.cust.tele2.se) |
| 05:04.18 | fewyn | hello all |
| 05:06.37 | Torhal | A wild fewyn appears! |
| 05:06.59 | fewyn | i just got off work |
| 05:07.10 | fewyn | such a long drive :/ |
| 05:07.13 | Torhal | I still have two hours/ |
| 05:07.14 | fewyn | i miss working from home |
| 05:07.16 | fewyn | yet i don't |
| 05:07.25 | fewyn | know what i mean? |
| 05:07.42 | Torhal | I've been working from home since October, so... kinda? |
| 05:08.27 | fewyn | people always thought i could just drop stuff |
| 05:08.30 | fewyn | when i worked from home |
| 05:08.34 | fewyn | and do what they wanted |
| 05:08.51 | Torhal | Oh hell no. |
| 05:09.31 | Torhal | Ten months later I still have to remind my son and his mother that "I AM WORKING. Just because I'm here with you doesn't mean shit." |
| 05:09.38 | Torhal | Heh. |
| 05:09.57 | Stanzilla | do they know what your job is |
| 05:10.00 | Stanzilla | and when you are lying |
| 05:10.16 | Torhal | stabs Stanzilla with a piñata. |
| 05:10.22 | Torhal | They know my hours. |
| 05:10.47 | Stanzilla | but they could not tell if you were not working during your hours |
| 05:11.07 | Torhal | You're a weird little fellow. Just thought you should be aware. |
| 05:11.33 | Stanzilla | I know that |
| 05:13.39 | fewyn | there are rare mobs in DH starting zone right? |
| 05:13.49 | kd3 | yep |
| 05:13.55 | fewyn | is there an addon that shows them? |
| 05:14.01 | fewyn | wait nvm |
| 05:14.03 | fewyn | there they are |
| 05:14.04 | kd3 | they're like warlords leveling rares, they repop fairly quickly |
| 05:14.05 | fewyn | handynotes got it |
| 05:14.11 | *** join/#wowuidev mpstark (~mpstark@cpe-70-121-171-72.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 05:14.54 | fewyn | i do have another question... anyone familiar with the curse app know how to remove characters from your profile? |
| 05:15.57 | Torhal | I believe that's on the TODO list, unfortunately. |
| 05:16.08 | fewyn | ok that's cool |
| 05:16.10 | fewyn | was just curious |
| 05:16.13 | fewyn | not a big deal |
| 05:16.28 | Torhal | It's rather simple to remove Stanzilla from your Friends List, though. |
| 05:16.30 | Torhal | >.> |
| 05:16.44 | fewyn | i have no one on my friends list |
| 05:16.49 | fewyn | well actually i lied |
| 05:16.52 | Torhal | lol |
| 05:16.53 | fewyn | i have a couple people |
| 05:17.58 | fewyn | i somehow have boubouille on mine don't remember adding him but ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 06:17.12 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
| 06:53.52 | Andols | Good morning, looks like it was an interesting night :P |
| 07:01.32 | Stanzilla | p3lim: is your talentless rewrite testable yet? |
| 07:03.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Ellypse (~Ellypse@159.8.85.240) |
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| 07:09.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Shockah|Work (~Shockah@185.28.17.74) |
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| 07:20.45 | VIad | Andols: I slept so dunno :p |
| 07:21.30 | VIad | I will watch the dota after work and see what I missed. only got to see the game until 1-1 |
| 07:26.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Shockah|Work (~Shockah@185.28.17.74) |
| 07:41.57 | Andols | VIad: Check the logs when today's appear :P There was some drama (big disagreement) some interesting discussions and some random stuff. |
| 07:52.34 | VIad | oh |
| 07:52.40 | VIad | about PHP? |
| 07:54.33 | VIad | no drama in the logs for 11th so I guess midnight drama? |
| 07:54.48 | VIad | those wont be available until tomorrow ^^ |
| 08:10.19 | VIad | chaud did finally something usefull, posted the invasion related time limited vendors so I could go buy their things while they are there :p |
| 08:28.22 | nevcairiel | he should rather fix the blue tracker |
| 08:28.29 | nevcairiel | its still broken, like two weeks later |
| 08:28.41 | VIad | is the data coming from a rss of some sorts? |
| 08:28.45 | VIad | or need to scape html |
| 08:28.51 | VIad | scrape* |
| 08:29.14 | nevcairiel | no clue, but wowheads works, but i dont like their layout for reasons |
| 08:29.31 | VIad | I assume there is no API to get forum posts |
| 08:29.37 | VIad | and html scraping is always a mess |
| 08:30.58 | nevcairiel | right now its failing to show the majority of posts from the forums at all, and threads/blogs posted by blizzard still dont show in blue color |
| 08:31.21 | VIad | might be scraping errors, new html structure and such |
| 08:31.30 | nevcairiel | sure, but its been weeks, fix it already |
| 08:31.37 | VIad | yeah |
| 08:31.42 | VIad | is he doing the coding himself? |
| 08:31.49 | nevcairiel | no clue who does that |
| 08:31.54 | VIad | :d |
| 08:38.15 | VIad | the blue tracker only tracks blue posts right? so you could make a list of all the blue names and use the search engine to get their latest posts |
| 08:38.25 | VIad | then scrape, but its all horrible html :( |
| 08:38.40 | VIad | would use some robust html>object library of sorts |
| 08:39.03 | VIad | I guess you could nodejs it, javascript has okay selection rules these days |
| 08:40.18 | VIad | search engine sucks |
| 08:40.26 | VIad | I clicked Aerythlea |
| 08:40.33 | VIad | to see his posts, got to a empty search result page |
| 08:40.35 | VIad | said no results :p |
| 08:40.50 | VIad | so I guess if curse uses the search engine, that might be a reason |
| 08:41.12 | VIad | probably more safe to scrape each and every single forum index and just check constantly for new threads and if there is a plue post on it |
| 08:56.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Miiru (~Miiru@p200300732E021F00FC9CD0B007216709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:58.09 | *** join/#wowuidev maunot (~pankker@mobile-access-bcee39-119.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:34.38 | *** join/#wowuidev mpstark (~mpstark@cpe-70-121-171-72.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 10:15.03 | Miiru | looks like i am not the only one with screen freezes |
| 10:18.18 | Stanzilla | Miiru: ingame? |
| 10:19.16 | Miiru | yes |
| 10:19.20 | Stanzilla | bagnon/combuctor? |
| 10:19.24 | Miiru | no |
| 10:19.37 | Miiru | theres multiple topics about it in the tech support forums |
| 10:19.47 | Miiru | it is 4-6 freezes at first login after wow start |
| 10:20.08 | Miiru | was blaming my pc but apparently it's not her fault |
| 10:20.14 | nevcairiel | i get tiny hicups after login for a couple days now, but barely noticeable and ntohing after the first 30 seconds |
| 10:20.45 | Miiru | http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748314838 |
| 10:22.18 | mikma | https://www.facebook.com/MarvelCinematicUniverse/photos/a.255014641181782.86037.217181691631744/1446533088696592/?type=3 |
| 10:22.31 | mikma | well, the group failed totally with this post |
| 10:25.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Cairenn (~Owner@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 10:25.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 11:02.53 | chaud__ | nevcairiel I don't have access to the code that is failing there and it is lower priority to that team than something else |
| 11:10.04 | chaud__ | (fwiw I fixed my personal blue tracker the afternoon they changed the forums and it has been working fine since) |
| 11:17.40 | Stanzilla | chaud__: does that have an rss feed? |
| 11:18.01 | chaud__ | in theory yeah |
| 11:18.21 | Stanzilla | and in practice? |
| 11:18.35 | chaud__ | I haven't checked since I just refresh the page every once in a while |
| 11:18.44 | Kalroth | in theoretical practice |
| 11:19.28 | chaud__ | it looks like it does but it is pretty slow to build it, 2 sec |
| 11:20.16 | Stanzilla | link? |
| 11:25.33 | VIad | are we talking about official forums feed? |
| 11:25.43 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@chello213047049027.5.graz.surfer.at) |
| 11:25.43 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 11:33.14 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:41.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Thunder_Child (TC@WoWUIDev/PITA/TC) |
| 11:44.37 | VIad | but the encryption key is right there |
| 11:45.47 | VIad | Kx5a998c1782cbe28e you are welcome |
| 11:49.06 | Andols | What are you trying to do? |
| 11:50.18 | *** join/#wowuidev relaxok (~bh@grom.polpo.org) |
| 11:51.39 | VIad | think he is working on casc/cdn |
| 12:00.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-94-237.cust.tele2.se) |
| 12:00.47 | Andols | Ah |
| 12:01.25 | foxlit | figure out what color that icon is, really. |
| 12:02.44 | VIad | doing that in wow or outside? |
| 12:09.24 | *** join/#wowuidev Simca (~Simca@c-73-28-210-11.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 12:13.09 | *** join/#wowuidev FreakySneaky (~singmyr@c-0afe70d5.047-328-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 12:30.39 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-245-241.cust.tele2.se) |
| 12:34.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-92-205.cust.tele2.se) |
| 12:34.50 | VIad | I guess since opie can detect color, that you can do that ingame. a bit unsure how though. |
| 12:35.09 | VIad | is there some hidden texture api to read pixels or something? |
| 12:42.50 | Shockah|Work | you sure it reads the color from somewhere? i thought it had a database of some kind |
| 12:42.58 | Shockah|Work | same for Raven i guess |
| 12:43.11 | Shockah|Work | but i didn't ever check either source code |
| 12:46.34 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal (~Mikkel@46.166.190.144) |
| 13:02.32 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.170) |
| 13:02.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrow|work (~Arrowmast@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 13:07.51 | Arrow|work | yay, so few people showed up to work today, this will be fun........ |
| 13:25.07 | Ketho | foxlit: afaik INV_Pet_HordeMurloc.blp is a missing icon, unless I'm misunderstanding you again like last time |
| 13:25.11 | Ketho | 2016.07.16 01:25.32 Ketho: there are 3 macro icons that are missing or invalid I think http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20746934712 |
| 13:25.44 | jnwhiteh | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:25.46 | jnwhiteh | who else is going? |
| 13:26.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:32.04 | [TOM_RUS] | those "missing" icons are just encrypted files... |
| 13:32.40 | [TOM_RUS] | im not even sure that's so special in those pets that worth encrypting them |
| 13:39.54 | Thunder_Child | I'll be at the dinner, but I hate cons. |
| 13:40.07 | foxlit | As Tom said, the actual data for those icons exists |
| 13:40.39 | foxlit | The client just doesn't have the key to decrypt it. |
| 13:44.18 | foxlit | unannounced Blizzcon in-game rewards bonus, maybe. |
| 13:53.08 | Torhal | jnwhiteh: I'll be there. |
| 13:53.54 | jnwhiteh | woohoo |
| 13:54.01 | jnwhiteh | didn't we sit next to each other last time I was there? |
| 13:55.08 | Simca | surprise it's murlocs |
| 13:55.11 | jnwhiteh | although that was a long time ago.. |
| 13:55.23 | Simca | thank god it was encrypted, so we couldn't find out it was going to murlocs |
| 13:55.28 | Torhal | I think I was just down the table from you - was 2011. |
| 13:55.33 | Simca | like it has been every single year |
| 13:59.08 | jnwhiteh | Now I just have to find a hotel room or apartment |
| 13:59.21 | jnwhiteh | wonder if there are any good AirBNB near the convention centre |
| 14:12.07 | foxlit | So what youre saying is that they should stop assigning file names to assets, Simca :) |
| 14:15.33 | Fisker | hey foxlit :( |
| 14:15.43 | Fisker | I think dk-hostmaster rejected my purchase of ð©.dk |
| 14:16.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:34.17 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/uMKPtE4.jpg |
| 14:34.54 | Thunder_Child | ~lart karl_w_w |
| 14:34.54 | purl | runs at karl_w_w with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut |
| 14:38.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@195-252-56-181-no191.business.telia.com) |
| 14:38.09 | nevcairiel | man this camera addon mmo-c front page advertises is just terrible |
| 14:38.30 | nevcairiel | much more innocent and less disruptive ways to fix the camera distance to stick |
| 14:39.45 | *** join/#wowuidev FreakySneaky (~singmyr@c-0afe70d5.047-328-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
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| 14:51.53 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 14:52.45 | Andols2 | Chaud__:There is a add at the bottom of mmo-c that autoplays audio. "Music charts top 10" |
| 14:59.05 | VIad | sadly wowthing doesnt update my deamonhunter xD |
| 14:59.08 | VIad | brokenth |
| 15:12.07 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-92-205.cust.tele2.se) |
| 15:13.38 | chaud__ | Andols2 any kind of urls for it would be helpful so we could kill it |
| 15:14.02 | chaud__ | nevcairiel make something better and I can swap it out =( |
| 15:14.26 | nevcairiel | advenced interface options just extends the slider |
| 15:14.29 | nevcairiel | advanced* |
| 15:14.44 | chaud__ | but doesn't it still reset every time you log in again? |
| 15:15.00 | nevcairiel | it should not, no |
| 15:15.38 | nevcairiel | sticks for me anyway |
| 15:17.11 | chaud__ | hm, will check it out later this morning and if that works swap it out |
| 15:18.32 | Semlar | didn't the auction house used to tell you when you had sold something but hadn't received the payment yet |
| 15:18.44 | Semlar | in the auctions tab |
| 15:19.52 | chaud__ | yes |
| 15:20.05 | chaud__ | with a timer |
| 15:20.15 | Semlar | well not any more |
| 15:20.29 | Semlar | i have no indicator at all that i've sold something until i receive the mail for it |
| 15:20.47 | Semlar | and the message in the chat of course |
| 15:21.47 | Semlar | i wasn't sure if i was misremembering that feature, because i was pretty sure it showed that you had sold something in green text on the auctions tab |
| 15:21.55 | chaud__ | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-qt-6ZW4AACl9a.png:large |
| 15:22.01 | [TOM_RUS] | id does sometimes show what is sold with timer still |
| 15:22.07 | [TOM_RUS] | it* |
| 15:22.09 | Semlar | o.O |
| 15:22.21 | [TOM_RUS] | but that happens very rarely |
| 15:22.25 | Semlar | maybe it depends on what you sell? |
| 15:22.32 | Semlar | or it just doesn't work right at the moment |
| 15:23.08 | chaud__ | might be per auctioneer |
| 15:23.25 | chaud__ | which sounds dumb, but looking at the tweet that image was for https://twitter.com/elvinelol/status/570459602866864128 |
| 15:29.58 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 15:32.44 | g0urra | what the fuck is happening here http://puu.sh/qyOYW/9ff12376a9.jpg |
| 15:33.03 | g0urra | booted my computer, two of the monitors have the bug (see left side), the third is fine |
| 15:33.50 | nevcairiel | looks like a gpu dying |
| 15:34.07 | Thunder_Child | So this morning the execs are going to be cooking pancakes and waffles for all the employees on site. I'm sure this is going to go well.... |
| 15:34.14 | g0urra | god damn it |
| 15:34.25 | g0urra | I'm gonna try clean them and see if that fixes it |
| 15:34.49 | fewyn | driver might have crashed g0urra |
| 15:34.51 | fewyn | oh he's gone |
| 15:34.53 | Thunder_Child | Clean the GPU? |
| 15:35.01 | Thunder_Child | That's an interesting thought. |
| 15:35.09 | fewyn | the dust |
| 15:35.14 | fewyn | can cause problems like that |
| 15:35.29 | nevcairiel | seems unlikely for dust to get in between your display pixels =p |
| 15:35.40 | fewyn | if the card is overheating |
| 15:35.42 | fewyn | it can! |
| 15:35.58 | Thunder_Child | I was thinking more of popping off the gpu and reapplying the thermal paste. |
| 15:36.27 | nevcairiel | depending on how old it is that could help, as cheap thermal paste drys out and gets bad |
| 15:36.49 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 15:37.26 | g0urra | of course I should have followed the age-old tech support question.. "have you tried turning it off and on again?" |
| 15:38.01 | nevcairiel | well that a reboot would fix this was a given |
| 15:38.09 | nevcairiel | however its not something one should entirely ignore |
| 15:38.18 | fewyn | 11:32<fewyn>driver might have crashed g0urra |
| 15:38.19 | fewyn | 11:32<fewyn>oh he's gone |
| 15:39.27 | Zeldo | fewyn: you can remove them here http://i.imgur.com/PC142sT.png |
| 15:41.16 | Ressy | Nothing actually removes. |
| 15:41.23 | Ressy | It just goes to a separate page, which always shows |
| 15:41.58 | Ressy | So I've got characters with inappropriate as hell names showing in declined, from my ex husband using my computer to log into his account. |
| 15:41.58 | Zeldo | You mean the denied page |
| 15:42.04 | Ressy | yeah. |
| 15:42.08 | Zeldo | Ah yea, that is going to be changed |
| 15:42.12 | Zeldo | But it hides them from the public |
| 15:42.13 | Ressy | Finally |
| 15:42.21 | Ressy | I've only been complaining about it for almost 2 years now |
| 15:43.09 | Zeldo | It's been on the todo list for awhile now, just keeps having stuff put infront of it |
| 15:43.38 | Andols | Chaud__:Can't get it to show again. But will give you a link if something similar pops up again. |
| 15:45.51 | fewyn | Zeldo: i know exactly how that feels |
| 15:46.19 | Zeldo | You know how being on a todo list but then having other stuff put in front feels? |
| 15:46.22 | Zeldo | That's weird |
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| 15:47.20 | fewyn | :p |
| 15:47.31 | fewyn | i know how things keep coming up more important than other things |
| 15:47.37 | Thunder_Child | Put your mind in the gutter, and it makes perfect sense. |
| 15:47.40 | fewyn | it sometimes bugs me to know end! |
| 15:47.44 | fewyn | no end! |
| 15:47.47 | fewyn | god it's too early for me |
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| 15:50.51 | Ressy | Zeldo: I definitely know how that is.. I keep adding to Torhal's list of stuff to do, and he has to keep dropping NPCScan to fix Arl or Collectinator. |
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| 15:51.49 | fewyn | exactly! |
| 15:53.19 | Zeldo | lol |
| 15:54.17 | Thunder_Child | Ressy: Just think of how bored Torhal would be if you were not around. |
| 15:55.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-87-203.cust.tele2.se) |
| 15:56.23 | Ressy | Probably very. |
| 15:56.32 | Ressy | He'd get to work on NCPScan and Archy in peace. |
| 15:57.02 | Thunder_Child | Sounds horrible. |
| 15:57.53 | VIad | is npcscan useful anymore? |
| 15:58.15 | VIad | there are so few "rares" now and you dont need an addon for them if you want to hunt for them kind of |
| 16:00.27 | VIad | no offense to silverdragon, but same thing |
| 16:01.04 | foxlit | Fisker: unacceptable. |
| 16:01.24 | fewyn | i like to have an addon |
| 16:01.27 | fewyn | so it yells at me |
| 16:01.28 | foxlit | clearly you need to go higher and register www.ð© |
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| 16:18.03 | Thunder_Child | foxlit: I think Fisker is high enough. |
| 16:18.46 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.19 | Simca | is there any reason _G.GetRealZoneText() would ever return two values? |
| 16:24.28 | Thunder_Child | It's awkward and I had to read through it a few times, but I got it. |
| 16:25.08 | TheDanW | GetRealZoneText() only returns 1 value |
| 16:27.02 | Semlar | TheDanW: why can't you loot through players >_> |
| 16:27.12 | TheDanW | what? |
| 16:27.25 | Semlar | like when a bunch of players are standing on a corpse you can't click on it |
| 16:27.43 | TheDanW | oh, i don't know |
| 16:27.51 | Semlar | you have the technology! |
| 16:28.06 | TheDanW | if we do that then someone will ask why can't i select a player near a corpse ;) |
| 16:28.09 | Semlar | you can apparently interact with npcs through players now |
| 16:28.21 | Simca | u wot |
| 16:28.23 | nevcairiel | yeah i noticed that |
| 16:28.32 | nevcairiel | those nethershard vendors shine through players |
| 16:28.33 | Semlar | although not through nameplates |
| 16:28.33 | tinystomper | to loot the last thing you killed... TargetLastTarget (keybind) + InteractWithTarget (keybind) |
| 16:28.45 | nevcairiel | and yu can click them even if crowded |
| 16:29.00 | Simca | ah must be a special property |
| 16:29.02 | Semlar | thanks tiny |
| 16:29.07 | Elmoe | Stanzilla: you mentioned freezing issues with combuctor? is that a known issue? didn't see anything in the github issues but have had client lockups myself |
| 16:29.37 | Simca | i like it, it is better than the 'collision bubbles' that some vendors have |
| 16:29.46 | Simca | or especially the dismount zones |
| 16:30.05 | Simca | getting dismounted and dying because you fly over khadgar in orgrimmar is always fun |
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| 16:30.23 | Simca | wuts z bounds precious |
| 16:30.33 | nevcairiel | be druid and hope you have enough forward momentum to get past the zone so you can fly again |
| 16:31.25 | VIad | TheDanW: why can't I click through my nameplate |
| 16:31.44 | mckenziemc1 | because you're fat, VIad |
| 16:31.50 | VIad | that might be it |
| 16:32.04 | VIad | shares his fat with mckenziemc1 |
| 16:32.28 | mckenziemc1 | goes rancid. |
| 16:33.51 | VIad | on a serious note, basicchatmods fixed the issue with miniloot. it doesnt parse my strings anymore :d |
| 16:34.14 | TheDanW | VIad: i told you how to hack around it, i also put the request on our API request list |
| 16:34.42 | VIad | I know. it sadly also moves the nameplate on the middle of the screen and not below the feet, but I have to live with that. |
| 16:35.14 | VIad | was considering to copypaste the code for it and since it doesnt have to be targetable it might also work :p and disable the default one. |
| 16:35.40 | VIad | sorry TheDanW, you are a doing a great job. don't mind me. |
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| 16:40.30 | fewyn | so i did the DH starter zone today |
| 16:40.33 | fewyn | was good |
| 16:41.56 | kullervo | and the cutscenes were very satisfying |
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| 16:58.34 | fewyn | the expansion launch event is very very satisfying |
| 16:58.37 | fewyn | imo |
| 17:22.40 | chaud | nevcairiel it sticks until you accidentally touch the zoom at all, then it is stuck back at the old minimum again, so not a perfect fix |
| 17:26.32 | nevcairiel | thats not how it works for me |
| 17:26.39 | nevcairiel | it practically changes the max of the base UI slider |
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| 17:40.51 | chaud | Yeah, so put it to max, zoom out to max, log out, log back in, scroll one click in or out, zoom is now capped at the old minimum and you need to go move the slider again |
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| 17:54.39 | nevcairiel | whine at Semlar, i guess |
| 17:55.42 | Thunder_Child | ~blame Semlar |
| 17:55.43 | purl | ACTION blames Semlar (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 18:00.32 | Stanzilla | Elmoe: I didnt report it but I think I saw one issue about it |
| 18:04.20 | Elmoe | Stanzilla: yeah I think its actually an issue with bagbrother |
| 18:04.44 | Elmoe | not gonna bother jaliborc though |
| 18:04.56 | Elmoe | frankly users have been pretty rude to him already in the bagnon comments :/ |
| 18:05.50 | Stanzilla | because he never fixes shit :D |
| 18:10.39 | Elmoe | Stanzilla: man I know whats its like to be busy and have little time to maintain your addon and people in the comments being rude isn't gonna help |
| 18:10.57 | Stanzilla | agree |
| 18:11.17 | Elmoe | I had to go to UK for work right when pre-patch hit and now India right after legion drops |
| 18:11.27 | Elmoe | and I know its going to be a shit ton of comments/tickets complaining while I'm away hah |
| 18:22.19 | VIad | will we be able to queue LFR like in pandaria with lorewalker? |
| 18:22.26 | VIad | like in legion, can we queue highmaul LFR? |
| 18:23.44 | kullervo | likely yes |
| 18:23.58 | kullervo | just like we can queue ds lfr |
| 18:25.53 | VIad | hmm |
| 18:25.58 | VIad | but I havent found the NPCs in beta :p |
| 18:26.01 | VIad | for that purpose |
| 18:28.29 | Elmoe | does anyone know how the new Curse client selects the image to show for your addon? |
| 18:28.48 | kullervo | type |
| 18:28.49 | Zeldo | For which image? |
| 18:29.07 | Elmoe | when you click on the addon and it shows your the description and an image |
| 18:29.23 | Elmoe | its not the same default image from curse website obviously due to dimensions |
| 18:29.31 | Elmoe | but I don't know where they are picking it from exactly |
| 18:30.33 | Zeldo | That image is the category type |
| 18:31.06 | Elmoe | ahh |
| 18:31.36 | Elmoe | ooh I see the sync feature was added now nice |
| 18:32.11 | Elmoe | very cool |
| 18:39.59 | Zeldo | :) |
| 18:46.02 | jro | any addons or ways to help identify a memory leak |
| 18:46.16 | jro | or to dig deeper into the memory thats currently allocated |
| 18:46.41 | jro | for a particular addon that is |
| 18:48.22 | kd3 | http://wowpedia.org/Patch_2.1.0/API_changes#Memory_Profiling |
| 18:49.12 | Kesava | TheDanW: fix interface scaling at 2k pls kthx |
| 18:51.03 | Thunder_Child | Moving from an IDE that does not make you save your changes to one that does, has some serious frustrations involved. |
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| 19:07.20 | VIad | karl_w_w: stream now, funny ^^ |
| 19:08.57 | TheDanW | Kesava: improved high density support is coming soon(tm) |
| 19:10.40 | Thunder_Child | TheDanW: Sooooo.....don't play @ 4K yet? |
| 19:10.55 | TheDanW | it's not a super pleasant experience atm |
| 19:11.33 | kd3 | heh. almost curious to see what playing at 4k on my 660ti would be like. |
| 19:16.00 | Thunder_Child | I have a 980ti but since I play at ultra, I suspect really really not fun. |
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| 19:59.18 | mfgmfg | forget high density |
| 19:59.20 | mfgmfg | where's VR? |
| 20:00.26 | mckenziemc1 | why not stick with TR |
| 20:00.30 | mckenziemc1 | (true reality) |
| 20:01.05 | bshelden | Amazing graphics. Crappy engagement. No reset button. |
| 20:03.59 | mckenziemc1 | sounds like you need a hardware upgrade |
| 20:04.20 | mckenziemc1 | firmware* |
| 20:04.46 | bshelden | Yeah, they only issue those when not jacked in. |
| 20:05.58 | Elmoe | does anyone know how to determine the cpu utilization (both kernel and user time) per process per core in windows? |
| 20:06.17 | Elmoe | per process thread per core would be even better but per process per core would be enough |
| 20:07.44 | Elmoe | I can do this in linux but can't figure out in windows for the life of me |
| 20:10.37 | nevcairiel | the windows cpu scheduler doesnt make that easy either way, a single thread using 100% CPU will not look like that on windows =p |
| 20:14.10 | Kesava | TheDanW: :D |
| 20:14.13 | Elmoe | I can get the per thread CPU util but across all cores |
| 20:14.15 | Elmoe | not per core |
| 20:15.40 | nevcairiel | yeah because it doesnt work like that on windows, threads appear to be jumping around all active cores, so utilization of single threads looks like it uses multiple cores, so no such luck |
| 20:16.03 | nevcairiel | you can only record per-thread usage with things like process explorer or such |
| 20:16.09 | nevcairiel | but not which cores they run on |
| 20:16.16 | Elmoe | yeah that is what I am seeing |
| 20:16.24 | Elmoe | apparently it is possible to do with visual studio |
| 20:16.36 | nevcairiel | debug hooks can do all sorts of crazy things |
| 20:16.49 | nevcairiel | but not advisable to use for real things =p |
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| 20:25.25 | Thunder_Child | mfgmfg: VR in wow means a 1000% increase of people dying from falling damage. |
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| 20:43.35 | mckenziemc1 | o.o |
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| 21:10.05 | *** join/#wowuidev LexSfX (LexSfX@216-71-194-85.dyn.novuscom.net) |
| 21:11.32 | Ketho | but what is Stop Reseting My Camera Zoom Please doing better than MaxCam v2.0 :s |
| 21:15.11 | LexSfX | Ketho: not that this is something that should necessarily be "fixed" and i haven't heard of that addon, but i noticed that when i had AdvancedInterfaceOptions and MaxCam and had only set MaxCam's zoom and not AdvancedInterfaceOptions, the AdvancedInterfaceOptions zoom value would "win" |
| 21:15.28 | LexSfX | i worked around it by setting AIO's zoom value to 2.6 also |
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| 21:20.05 | Ketho | MaxCam is setting the cvar on PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD, AIO is maybe doing it on a later time but that's what happens when multiple addons set it :( |
| 21:20.14 | kd3 | in today's episode of shippers wasting money... putting entirely capable shipping boxes inside other shipping boxes. https://twitter.com/Kaydeethree/status/764208991442497536 |
| 21:23.17 | zenzelezz | while I agree, I'm sure that's usually due to auto-packing |
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| 21:23.29 | Kee | I added same feauture as simple as possible in ace3's "OnEnable" (https://github.com/Benio101/Aye.AutoOK/commit/9593af93fecc7cc5844af590fb33713fad80b46f#diff-a395fc5bd8306c99b94b0b3c993de1acR52) and cooperates with AdvancedInterfaceOptions perfectly. |
| 21:23.59 | Kee | without even touching AIO itself or it's options. |
| 21:25.42 | Thunder_Child | kd3: The pciture of you on your work site is kinda cringe worthy. |
| 21:25.52 | Thunder_Child | picture* |
| 21:26.04 | kd3 | the one on our careers site? yah, I gotta change that |
| 21:26.32 | Thunder_Child | They got the frame behind you in perfect focus. |
| 21:26.39 | Ketho | Kee: so you're saying your method doesn't get overridden by AIO? |
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| 21:27.37 | LexSfX | no addon should be setting CVars on load anyway; just reading them |
| 21:27.42 | LexSfX | because they are all stored server-side |
| 21:27.48 | LexSfX | and/or already in WTF |
| 21:28.02 | LexSfX | so AIO should not be setting it on load |
| 21:28.30 | nevcairiel | AIO is all kinds of crazy these days |
| 21:28.52 | nevcairiel | i think it resets cvars from its savedvariables now, which messes some things up |
| 21:29.01 | LexSfX | yes, exactly |
| 21:29.03 | LexSfX | it should not be doing that |
| 21:29.28 | nevcairiel | yell at Semlar some more for doing silly things |
| 21:29.29 | Kee | Ketho: yes. also, it set's AIO's AdvancedInterfaceOptions to 2.6 without even doing it, for some crazy reason. |
| 21:29.40 | Ketho | and last week I was asking for savedvars in AIO, what have I done :x |
| 21:29.49 | Semlar | you can blame ketho |
| 21:30.11 | Semlar | and what is lex complaining about |
| 21:30.19 | mpstark | I agree, blame Ketho |
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| 21:30.55 | LexSfX | AIO overriding CVars with savedvariables values |
| 21:31.06 | Semlar | yeah but what's the problem specifically |
| 21:31.11 | nevcairiel | saving what AIO "thinks" a cvars value should be and then resetting it on login just makes the problem of different things interacting with the same cvars ten times worse |
| 21:31.14 | Semlar | i could scroll up |
| 21:31.32 | Semlar | it "thinks" the cvar's value should be what the user set it to in AIO |
| 21:31.39 | LexSfX | the problem is that AIO doesn't "play nice" with other addons that affect CVars |
| 21:31.40 | nevcairiel | but what if the user didnt use AIO |
| 21:31.44 | LexSfX | it overrides them |
| 21:31.52 | Semlar | it intentionally ignores other addons |
| 21:31.55 | nevcairiel | like, AIO has an option for the view distance now - so does the default UI |
| 21:32.04 | nevcairiel | if i change it in the default UI, AIO overrides |
| 21:32.32 | Semlar | there were a huge number of complaints from users that the settings they were setting in AIO weren't being kept because other addons were changing them |
| 21:33.02 | nevcairiel | I just want AIO exposing extra settings, not mess everything up =p |
| 21:33.25 | nevcairiel | i should fork it and roll my own without crazyness |
| 21:33.28 | Semlar | i can change it to save other addon's settings |
| 21:33.37 | nevcairiel | how about just not saving |
| 21:33.42 | nevcairiel | cvars are already saved |
| 21:33.45 | nevcairiel | by the game |
| 21:33.45 | Semlar | no, they aren't |
| 21:34.48 | Semlar | also it only "saves" cvars that the user has actually changed with AIO |
| 21:36.15 | Semlar | so it's a fairly small subset of cvars |
| 21:36.15 | zenzelezz | is it explained anywhere (in-game or in readme) that it is doing this? |
| 21:37.00 | nevcairiel | users are not generally sane, they may click around and toggle a setting to see what it does, then toggle it back off, and suddenly you have a list of things it resets |
| 21:38.01 | Semlar | i'll update it to play nicer with other addons |
| 21:38.21 | VIad | as DH if I glide over a health orb, I cancel my glide :P |
| 21:39.03 | nevcairiel | why dont you add a toggle if people want their settings enforced on login |
| 21:39.17 | nevcairiel | right now its also globally setting some things that are otherwise char specific |
| 21:39.28 | nevcairiel | personally i have different FCF settings on different chars |
| 21:39.36 | Semlar | i know, it's part of planned UI settings i just don't have time right now |
| 21:39.57 | Semlar | so it's mostly just whatever the majority of people have requested that's getting implemented |
| 21:40.14 | nevcairiel | the majority of people are idiots though |
| 21:40.29 | Semlar | to be honest, i wanted account wide settings too |
| 21:40.49 | Semlar | i was getting tired of changing something and not having it stick on other characters |
| 21:41.38 | nevcairiel | guess i'll be disabling AIO then |
| 21:42.11 | LexSfX | 14:33:26 <nevcairiel> i should fork it and roll my own without crazyness |
| 21:42.12 | LexSfX | sounds good |
| 21:42.18 | Semlar | don't be such a drama queen |
| 21:42.30 | nevcairiel | i instaleld it to expose hidden settings, not for it to start managing all my cvars |
| 21:42.48 | Semlar | you could also just roll it back if you want |
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| 21:47.07 | Ketho | Semlar: sorry that you're this busy, but AIO saves cameraDistanceMaxFactor as soon as the /aio options window is opened/closed, instead of only when the user clicks the slider |
| 21:47.24 | Ketho | to the savedvars* |
| 21:47.53 | Semlar | well that's no longer a problem because i removed the saved variables |
| 21:48.30 | Ketho | http://i.imgur.com/grK98tG.jpg |
| 21:48.33 | Ketho | ow |
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| 22:11.23 | Ketho | is it me or is cameraDistanceMaxFactor being rounded to one decimal digit now since the last patch? setting it to 31 (2.067) changes it to 31.5 (2.1) on relog or reload |
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| 22:21.13 | LexSfX | i don't understand why anyone would want it below maximum. you can always just zoom in if it's too far |
| 22:21.34 | bshelden | So I can tap end to zoom out to my preferred distance rather than having to hit it exactly. |
| 22:22.09 | LexSfX | but sometimes maximum is your preferred distance, like when flying, no? |
| 22:22.33 | bshelden | Often I go first person for flying. |
| 22:22.41 | bshelden | Get me out of the frame entirely |
| 22:22.48 | LexSfX | ok |
| 22:23.08 | Semlar | you can actually save multiple specific camera distances and hotkey them i believe |
| 22:23.23 | bshelden | That'd be nice. I only knew of a hotkey to max. |
| 22:23.23 | LexSfX | i have done that before, but it also saves the angle |
| 22:23.30 | LexSfX | iirc |
| 22:23.39 | LexSfX | which makes it useless to me |
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| 23:02.14 | mckenziemc | http://www.microchip.com/_images/ics/medium-PIC32MZ0512EFE064-QFN-64.png woops |
| 23:09.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-88-216.cust.tele2.se) |
| 23:18.44 | *** join/#wowuidev newbie|2 (~kvirc@80.203.141.26) |
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| 23:20.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols2 (~yaaic@m83-185-92-3.cust.tele2.se) |
| 23:20.23 | newbie|2 | Greetings. I've been using an addon ("Prat") for a long time now.Mainly for its ability to let me copy block of text from the in-game chat (copy to clipboard, I mean. Using the addon's "Copy Text" or "Copy to Editbox") -- however some times, nothing happens when clicking it, on rare occasion |
| 23:20.35 | newbie|2 | does anyone know of an alternate addon doing this, or potential fix/work-around for this by any chance? |
| 23:21.17 | newbie|2 | Mainly useful for example when I play on a russian-speaking realm. As I know no russian on my own, nor able to even type the russian letters.. I'd use this addon to copy & paste what ppl write,plus my eventual response, back n forth into GOogle-translate |
| 23:22.08 | newbie|2 | its sooo annoying tho, tryign to explain ppl after a long chat, asking them to repeat what they just said coz my chat-copy-addon on rare occasion bugs and doesn't let me copy the text from chat.. :/ I haven't found any pattern in when it does't work,just now and then nothinng happens when tring to copy the text |
| 23:22.35 | newbie|2 | Sry if wrong place, off-topic, excessive chatter, or something.. :-d |
| 23:23.26 | newbie|2 | (also, im a major n00b to most this stuff..and addons/lua-coding in general,too.. :) (say if Im bothersome , or whatever..- i'd shut up/listen, -- rather than just ignoring, +kb or such, i mean :P ) |
| 23:25.40 | newbie|2 | Also, if someone could tell me - or if possible at all - any way to copy/get to (however.) text on menus and elsewhere? Such as the text on various buttons, when presented with a quest, etc.. if it's in Russian text,not knowing the language at all..I'd often be stuck trying to find the matching <whatever> on wowhead., or log english client to compare , in order to translate.. any easier way? |
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| 23:33.09 | Andols2 | Sorry, can't help you. But I am curious, why are you playing on a Russian realm when you don't speek any Russian? |
| 23:34.18 | newbie|2 | oh, actually I first made char(s) there for gold-making reasons, such as buying a pet there that would usualyl be very expensive on my own realm, and other way around - buying pet on my realm commonly expensive on that other realm, to post pets on AH back n forth according to prices |
| 23:34.55 | newbie|2 | gold-making, basically.. tho, i dno why I did.. Ive too many chars and play a lil here and there only past year(s).. too many to keep up with much, so I thought I'd use my free lvl-100 boost there on that RUssian realm.. |
| 23:35.04 | Andols2 | And can't you play with English (EnGb) and access Russian realms? |
| 23:35.15 | newbie|2 | (ive also chars on french & german realm (not yet but close to 100), and also a spanish one (tho far frmo 100 there..) |
| 23:35.23 | newbie|2 | oh, yes you can |
| 23:35.40 | newbie|2 | actually, just to (may needa open wow.exe as administator). Menu > system > change language to russian |
| 23:35.46 | newbie|2 | then restart game, and can play on russian realms;) |
| 23:36.10 | foxlit | Andols2: I don't think the enGB client will let you log into russian realms. |
| 23:36.27 | newbie|2 | I thought (and think is somewhat correct), less ppl there use/know of tools like Tradeskillmaster and such, many similar resources being english-only,and lots of thse folks barely knowing english-if any.... ;P |
| 23:36.35 | foxlit | You can switch language, but then it's no longer the enGB client. |
| 23:37.24 | newbie|2 | oh.. ^ I dno bout that.. I just know I basically just need to go in menu set language to russian, then restart agme and suddenly works to play on Russian realms. Been wanting but yet to find any as easy ways for play on asian- or us- realms, thouugh.. |
| 23:38.01 | Andols2 | I see, so it's different with Russian then. Because I'm sure that I have played on German/Spanish realms with enGB |
| 23:38.26 | newbie|2 | afaik, u'd edit a file basically changing "eu." into "us." or such for that.. right?^ I dno tho. But getting onto RUs realms, while a lil more tricky than any other non-english realms..ain't that hard, just that lil xtra step with restarting game..which I guess also another reason less others doing similar for gold-making reasons,might end up there (less competition) :p |
| 23:38.55 | newbie|2 | Yeah. Though them russians u can invite and play x-realm with as any of the others normally, afaik.. |
| 23:39.54 | newbie|2 | kinda depend on copying text (especcialy from the chatbox) to communicate with ppl (and more than a few words and often comes out weird/incoherent), to copy & paste text quickly back n forth into google-translate.. |
| 23:40.48 | newbie|2 | only addon Ive found so far enabling copy & paste as such (while being nice for alot else too btw) is the addon named "Prat". But, while it works like 9 of 10 times or more... randomly the "copy text" doesn't do anything at all.. dam annoying, asking ppl to repeat what they just said without explaining too much (blabla..) :d |
| 23:41.54 | newbie|2 | (copy text frmo in-game chatbox , i mean. It copies it into another in-game pop-up box. I'd then CTRL+A (highlight All that text),followed by CTRL+C (copy..), and ctrl+v (paste) it into google-translate.. |
| 23:43.07 | newbie|2 | I'm not sure, but guessing /chatlog does not update before after closing the client, eh? (or /reload at least..), and won't be much help either. (chat log output to <WoW-folder> /logs/ChatLog.txt) ) |
| 23:43.49 | newbie|2 | also, many times hopping between russian/non-russian realms causes weird things.. like items stored in another addon,while on english realm..to appear as a mix of russian and english names. And also numerous weird bugs w various addons on Rus realms, for weird reasons:s |
| 23:44.03 | Andols2 | Do you need to restart or reloadui when it stops working or what? |
| 23:44.18 | newbie|2 | ANyway, I like it, kinda... ^ others would likely be troubled by the same, and taking advantage of (presumably) few others using addons like TSM as much on those realms :p |
| 23:44.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-87-191.cust.tele2.se) |
| 23:44.53 | Andols | If you answered I got disconnected.. |
| 23:45.07 | newbie|2 | oh, I'm actually not sure; don't think I tried that.. a while ago I had the issue niw (tho was as such for years, assuming still is), but may log a Rus realm and try some more to tell for sure shortly |
| 23:45.55 | Andols | But does it stop working at all or just for a short time? |
| 23:45.58 | newbie|2 | often afraid to lose the history (chat log) after doing such,but..at least with this Prat addon (having enables in settings to store max history-length/text), usually does preserve text between sessions |
| 23:46.00 | newbie|2 | oh, |
| 23:46.37 | newbie|2 | it actually works on every other line (i right-click a line in chat to get two choices "Copy Text" or "Copy to Editbox"), but nothing at all happens when I try those buggy (?) lines |
| 23:47.29 | newbie|2 | I can copy every other line, just suddenly that one line is imposible to copy:S ANd if they type the exact same again, that that usually/always works- i think |
| 23:47.33 | foxlit | so you right click something and the "Copy Text", "Copy to Editbox" menu doesn't come up? |
| 23:48.06 | newbie|2 | sry, they do come up, just nothing happens when I click either of them |
| 23:48.55 | newbie|2 | when choosing "copy to editbox", and clicking that (while its already open) on other lines of text, it'd update the box wiith the new content. But if trying that "buggy line",nothing happens; no update |
| 23:48.57 | foxlit | if you do /run error("moo") does some sort of message including the word 'moo' appear? |
| 23:50.30 | newbie|2 | sry not ready/able to check/try , trying to get in (and on rus realm), and get to that asap.. tnx again for input anyway btw! -n sry for beng n00b n all.. |
| 23:50.43 | newbie|2 | launcher/client update just fninished, about to re-launch my wows.. |
| 23:52.21 | Andols | If you don't have this enabled. Somewhere in the options (can't tell you where not home) you can enable a button that (for me) appears in the top left corner (a white copy symbol) and if you press that everything that is shown in the chat appears in the "popup" |
| 23:52.47 | newbie|2 | I just logged onto a russian char. First typing it I got a prompr,presumably giving choice to enable/disable running scripts.. (think/hope) I accepted. AFterwards, "/run error("moo")" didn't seem to do anything at all |
| 23:53.18 | newbie|2 | oh hmmm.. actually thnk ive seen something like it, and... may be a good idea/thought actually....! sec, died (somehow...lvl1 banker) |
| 23:53.27 | Andols | It's in prat btw |
| 23:53.42 | newbie|2 | oh, k. thanks, will try check/find it |
| 23:54.33 | foxlit | newbie|2: do /console scriptErrors 1 |
| 23:55.30 | newbie|2 | Unsure if it's it, but I do get the icon in chat I think (opens a seperate loose (draggable around the screen) window frmo which I seem able to copy/paste text aswell).. haven't tried this, and if shoudl work--but seems and would htink..cool |
| 23:55.32 | newbie|2 | sec |
| 23:56.02 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:56.52 | newbie|2 | did set scriptErrors 1 then re-tried error("moo") and did get some long error http://pastebin.com/3Z0iUsYW |
| 23:57.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Andols (~yaaic@m83-185-91-136.cust.tele2.se) |
| 23:57.42 | newbie|2 | Besides (possibly) "Addon Control Panel", I think the only addon enabled there for now is "Prat" btw |
| 23:59.24 | newbie|2 | pretty hard to navigate around and such at times, in this Russian-client.. have no idea what many button's text means, nor able to copy it or anyhting. (I gues I could google the entire russian alphabet and try compare my way thru each letter .. but easier to open alternate wow,set english and compare). Mostly annoying during "heat of the battle" when ppl expect replies somewhat fast, and i keep h |
| 23:59.54 | newbie|2 | having to ask them to "repeat one more time what u just said please" :d (while hoping not having to explain why i keep requesting them to do this:) |
