| 00:04.34 | NodusCursorius | The fact that Lua treats # different for strings and tables is frustrating. |
| 00:09.21 | NodusCursorius | Lua needs a proper sizeof operator. Feels so silly to see a language without it. |
| 00:10.45 | mckenziemc | that's what C function wrappers in an individual implementation are for |
| 00:12.30 | NodusCursorius | Sure, and being a C, I would do that. We can not do that with the WoW API. |
| 00:12.58 | mckenziemc | blame the proper culprit |
| 00:13.03 | NodusCursorius | My point being to whine and eyeroll about how even outside of WoW's API, the answer is "use a C function wrapper" |
| 00:13.09 | NodusCursorius | When it should be something native. |
| 00:13.17 | mckenziemc | idk |
| 00:14.18 | NodusCursorius | You don't know which part? |
| 00:14.42 | mckenziemc | every language has a philosophy, and users who won't agree with the philosophy |
| 00:15.28 | mckenziemc | i think Neffi's last line is a big part of why lua doesn't have sizeof |
| 00:16.15 | Neffi | NodusCursorius: why the hell do you need size of in lua? |
| 00:16.43 | Neffi | and the primitives all exist for implementing a # with different behavior |
| 00:17.34 | NodusCursorius | Sure. But I'm talking about native functionality. Default usage. |
| 00:17.47 | Neffi | no you're not |
| 00:17.55 | NodusCursorius | You know what I'm talking about? |
| 00:17.58 | Neffi | give me a solid use case for sizeof in lua |
| 00:18.05 | NodusCursorius | Is this the route you really want to go down? Telling me what I'm talking about? |
| 00:18.22 | Neffi | give me a reason to break the abstraction of playing at a high level to expose details that only the VM should care about |
| 00:18.37 | Neffi | Lua is not a systems language. |
| 00:18.45 | NodusCursorius | I'm not asking it to be. |
| 00:19.05 | Neffi | tables are not arrays. what they consume is not straightforward |
| 00:19.28 | NodusCursorius | Which is why they are also easily calculated based on the machine it is interpreting from, otherwise garbage collection would be impossible. |
| 00:19.35 | Neffi | there's no reason to expose the optimizations the VM takes |
| 00:20.07 | NodusCursorius | You're right. Which is why I'm speaking of query and not calculation. |
| 00:20.11 | mckenziemc | what happens when a table or string is shared by multiple tables, and you ask "what is the size of those other tables?" |
| 00:20.32 | NodusCursorius | It should return current value. |
| 00:20.35 | Neffi | when you start doing that, you invite people to write code the wrong way. then alternative implementations are suddenly expected to either not exist, or not diverge in unspecified areas |
| 00:21.06 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, so you feel it is because "people will write code the wrong way" as a legitimate, rational reason? |
| 00:21.20 | Neffi | I feel as though it has no place in the standard lib |
| 00:21.33 | Neffi | such a thing is not within the realm of Lua code |
| 00:21.43 | NodusCursorius | Then you're welcome to disagree, but don't attempt to tell me what I am am nor talking about. |
| 00:21.48 | Neffi | its at the wrong level of abstraction. feel free to implement it yourself |
| 00:22.24 | Arrowmaster | should it include the size of all objects contained in it? |
| 00:22.27 | Neffi | you still haven't told me why you need it |
| 00:22.54 | NodusCursorius | I.. what? Why are you offering me your gesture of implementation? Why are you telling me what I am, or am not, saying? Why are you asking why I need it, when I haven't asked for your help? |
| 00:23.08 | NodusCursorius | Arrowmaster, for dynamic associations it should. |
| 00:23.18 | Arrowmaster | yeah i could break that |
| 00:23.24 | NodusCursorius | And? |
| 00:23.38 | Neffi | you decided to publicly whine about something which you are misguided |
| 00:23.53 | Neffi | don't act like you're free from criticism |
| 00:23.59 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, our disagreements mean I'm misguided about what the language should be allowed to include? |
| 00:24.00 | Arrowmaster | your head might explode if you see the metatable bullshittery ive come up with before |
| 00:24.27 | Neffi | no, our disagreement is irrelevant |
| 00:24.29 | NodusCursorius | You're welcome to criticize but it needs to be relevant, the bulk of yours summarized as "why should it" |
| 00:24.38 | Neffi | you're wrong anyway, and the Lua designers agree |
| 00:24.47 | NodusCursorius | How is that.. wrong? |
| 00:25.02 | Arrowmaster | if your count to that 'why shouldnt it' because ive got answers for that |
| 00:25.14 | NodusCursorius | Behavioral disagreements themselves are fundamentally neither right or wrong, Neffi. Don't try that. |
| 00:25.28 | NodusCursorius | Arrowmaster, we also allow people to define globals in the language that can be overwritten or tainted. Works both ways. |
| 00:25.43 | Neffi | taint doesn't exist in Lua |
| 00:25.46 | Neffi | its a wow thing |
| 00:25.53 | Arrowmaster | taint is a wow concept |
| 00:25.59 | NodusCursorius | Which is why I said overwritten. |
| 00:26.09 | Neffi | also an ugly one but ~shrug |
| 00:26.44 | NodusCursorius | And "taint" is not a Lua-only programming concept. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taint_checking |
| 00:26.48 | NodusCursorius | So both still apply. |
| 00:27.16 | Neffi | no it doesn't? lua doesn't have taint checking |
| 00:27.18 | NodusCursorius | Arrowmaster, the language already allows for code-breakage situations across authors with globals only being one example. Why is the limitation placed on sizeof, for you? |
| 00:27.37 | Arrowmaster | the taint impemtation is a completely custom one written by a wow dev specifically for wow |
| 00:27.53 | kd3 | wow's taint is full of hacks and black magic |
| 00:28.10 | NodusCursorius | Right, and I was using the programmatic terms since we're discussing Lua as a language. |
| 00:28.32 | Arrowmaster | the language was not designed for multiple independent blocks of code from different authors either |
| 00:28.39 | NodusCursorius | Lua allows globals to be modified maliciously (taint checking isn't in Lua) or unintentionally. |
| 00:28.51 | NodusCursorius | So why not also sizeof, despite your statement of it being breakable? |
| 00:29.04 | Arrowmaster | oh that was just me being snarky |
| 00:29.16 | mckenziemc | you've got an uphill battle, NodusCursorius; you're arguing something should be added to the language, which is fine, but they're telling you there are reasons it's not that simple to put an agreeable extra feature in, and Lua's design is to keep things simple |
| 00:29.19 | NodusCursorius | Ahh, at least it was greyhat ;) Arrowmaster++; |
| 00:29.23 | Neffi | because one is fundamentally unreliable, whereas the other is only incidentally unreliable some of the time |
| 00:29.46 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, no I'm asking why it wasn't included on a fundamental level when the garbage collector already makes use of the information. |
| 00:30.30 | mckenziemc | the garbage collector has a different purpose and different requirements |
| 00:31.06 | Arrowmaster | real reason would be if you cannot show a valid use case it adds something fundamentally missing then it probably shouldnt be in the core language because lua is meant to be a lean embedded language, thats the same reason it doesnt have proper regex, i think theres a compiler to run on bare metal |
| 00:31.33 | mckenziemc | it just deletes items with no strong references, but it has to do tracing and either says something is reachable or not, not how its size should be defined |
| 00:31.55 | NodusCursorius | Arrowmaster, as an embedded language it should already account for different arch sizes which means computation is a trivial process past that, right? |
| 00:32.17 | Arrowmaster | no clue i dont do low level coding, not my thing |
| 00:32.18 | Neffi | not embedded in that sense |
| 00:32.29 | Neffi | embedded as in, embeddable in a host |
| 00:32.47 | Predicate | Computation is not at all trivial, depending on what you actually want the sizeof operator to tell you. It could even change at arbitrary times as the garbage collector does its work. |
| 00:33.11 | NodusCursorius | The GC is already using sizeof, which I wish we could simply pull from. |
| 00:33.14 | NodusCursorius | digs through the code |
| 00:33.35 | Neffi | of all the shit we don't have in wow lua... |
| 00:33.43 | Neffi | I'd prefer debug. |
| 00:34.06 | mckenziemc | sizeof for trees of tables, or sizeof for primitives? |
| 00:34.22 | NodusCursorius | So many debug commands in Lua that aren't touchable to us script-side, despite being in the client, agreed. |
| 00:34.28 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, checking. Going to take a moment. |
| 00:34.58 | Neffi | the GC doesn't know the size of a tree of tables at any one point |
| 00:35.01 | Neffi | why would it? |
| 00:35.27 | Arrowmaster | it couldnt |
| 00:35.31 | Neffi | it sees a hash map and an array which hold some unboxed numbers, or pointers |
| 00:35.36 | Arrowmaster | like i said id break it if it tried |
| 00:36.06 | mckenziemc | hah |
| 00:36.35 | NodusCursorius | Alright. The GC has a getsize and LuaC has a getsize. Let's see what they pull (since getsize is a rather common Lua module). |
| 00:37.58 | Neffi | NodusCursorius: a table is an array + a hash of some size >= the size of a number * the amount of elements |
| 00:38.07 | NodusCursorius | I'm plenty familiar, thanks. |
| 00:38.07 | Neffi | it preallocates each region as it grows |
| 00:38.17 | Neffi | so what number do you want? |
| 00:38.44 | Neffi | some consequence of preallocation that has nothing to do with your lua code and will change at some unspecified moment? |
| 00:39.56 | mckenziemc | reallocates Neffi into a cardboard box. |
| 00:40.52 | Neffi | I just don't get wanting to peek into what the VM chooses to do any any given moment. There's a reason some things areblatantly unspecified. You're not supposed to be doing just that. The implementation is supposed tonne free to choose "some sane practice that works", more or less |
| 00:41.05 | Neffi | high level languages in general don't need these facilities |
| 00:41.13 | Neffi | Lua just keeps a stricter standard |
| 00:41.58 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, "it preallocates each region" - except for literal inits |
| 00:42.08 | Neffi | says who? |
| 00:42.09 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, still parsing the code, sorry. |
| 00:42.21 | Neffi | the language definition doesn't say that |
| 00:43.27 | NodusCursorius | According to gamepedia, "Lua 5.1 tables that are created with literal initializers such as x = { "a", "b", key = "value" } allocate exactly what they need without any extra pre-allocation." |
| 00:43.44 | NodusCursorius | I'd find the documentation for it to parallel, but I'm working n mckenziemc's request. |
| 00:44.03 | mckenziemc | not really a request :P |
| 00:44.05 | Neffi | no, you wont find it |
| 00:44.18 | Neffi | I'm very familia with this documentation. I'm telling you it says no such thing |
| 00:44.30 | Neffi | this is unspecified behavior |
| 00:45.11 | Predicate | Even if it did work for literal inits, that doesn't help much for a generic sieof operator. As soon as the next GC cycle runs, everything can potentially change. |
| 00:45.21 | mckenziemc | is it perhaps correct when referring specifically to WoW's implementation, but not part of the base language? |
| 00:45.28 | Neffi | much of that gamepedia wisdom is discerned from studying the source of Rio Lua 5.1 which is just one version of one implementation of Lua. by the way, wow lua deviates from it in unspecified ways |
| 00:45.43 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, which would be fine. A query should be immediate information not predictive of what the value will be in the future. |
| 00:46.02 | Predicate | Right, but I mean the sizeof operator will literally stop working after that. |
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| 00:46.20 | Neffi | honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these explanations you see on gamepedia and forums by veteran lua users actually don't apply to wow's lua implementation |
| 00:46.24 | Predicate | Because the literal initialization is no longer applicable to the current sie. |
| 00:46.28 | Neffi | nobody here knows how much it has diverged |
| 00:46.28 | Predicate | s/sie/size |
| 00:47.26 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, but you know for certain that despite a uncertain divergence, that the supplied assertion from gamepedia is inaccurate? |
| 00:47.59 | NodusCursorius | s/a/an/ |
| 00:48.00 | Neffi | it was accurate as of the latest version of PUC-Rio Lua at the time the article was written, I know that much |
| 00:48.01 | Stanzilla | we need some Snickers up in here |
| 00:48.10 | mckenziemc | if your statement is that Lua should include sizeof, then one implementation is just that |
| 00:48.41 | Neffi | sorry, does it actually need to be said that you shouldn't depend on unspecified behavior? this entry shouldn't exist on the wiki. its teaching new programmers to be bad programmers |
| 00:49.07 | NodusCursorius | What? I'm asking how confident you are in your answer. |
| 00:49.24 | Neffi | I'm confident in what I said as I said it |
| 00:49.32 | NodusCursorius | Then just say that. |
| 00:49.35 | mckenziemc | i think the answer is that it's not a dependable feature :) |
| 00:49.47 | NodusCursorius | I'm not using any behaviour, this was a question and discussion about the language itself, not unspecified behaviour or future programmers. |
| 00:49.48 | mckenziemc | s/feature/detail |
| 00:50.14 | NodusCursorius | I have no intention of depending upon it. |
| 00:50.26 | Torhal | I've found that mckenziemc has unspecified behavior. |
| 00:50.31 | NodusCursorius | It was an offered correction or confusion based on a statement Neffi asserted, nothing more. |
| 00:51.17 | Predicate | The point is that it's not even close to "trivial to calculate" as you thought. Setting aside entirely the question of why anyone would want such a thing in a high level, dynamically allocated, garbage collected language. |
| 00:51.20 | Neffi | so why again do you need size of? |
| 00:52.00 | NodusCursorius | I.. never said I needed it, Neffi. |
| 00:52.14 | Neffi | you implied it. stop being pedantic |
| 00:52.23 | NodusCursorius | Then stop reading implications. |
| 00:52.36 | NodusCursorius | I expressed a frustration with the inconsistent behaviour of # |
| 00:52.54 | NodusCursorius | Wishing it functioned with the same consistency as sizeof. |
| 00:53.05 | mckenziemc | i might hurt you Torhal; then again, i might not |
| 00:53.08 | Neffi | ok |
| 00:53.21 | Torhal | It actually isn't inconsistent; it works exactly the same for strings and tables UNLESS the table is a "dictionary-style" table. |
| 00:53.29 | Torhal | At that point, you iterate. |
| 00:53.30 | Neffi | go write a __len metamethod |
| 00:53.34 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, You have been inaccurate, condescending, and dismissive the entire discussion for reasons I am simply incapable of understanding. Have I offended you before, in some way? |
| 00:53.37 | mckenziemc | we moved past #, Torhal |
| 00:53.43 | Neffi | Lua doesn't have arrays. # has no meaningful value sometimes |
| 00:53.45 | Torhal | #mckenziemc |
| 00:53.50 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, because this was about default behavior. Not possible behavior. |
| 00:53.50 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 00:53.57 | Neffi | you can write arrays in about 5 lines. the primitives all exist |
| 00:53.58 | NodusCursorius | But I said that already, and you know that already. |
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| 00:54.09 | NodusCursorius | Torhal, right, that's pretty spot on. |
| 00:54.19 | mckenziemc | oh sorry Torhal, i didn't see the most recent lines >.> |
| 00:54.42 | Predicate | The default behavior of # is exactly what you expect it to be when used on a table of sequential, integer-indexed values. It's the number of items in the table, just like it's the number of characters in a string (aka char array). |
| 00:54.43 | Torhal | S'ok, mckenziemc - your behavior is unspecified. |
| 00:54.54 | mckenziemc | =/ |
| 00:55.33 | NodusCursorius | objlen is # is it not? |
| 00:55.44 | Neffi | NodusCursorius: I'm pissed off and a bit drunk and I saw you complaining about things which have been well established |
| 00:56.17 | NodusCursorius | I am still allowed to find something about a language frustrating, based entirely on my own opinion of language use. |
| 00:56.45 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, objlen does three things. Is this a dynamic return? Does it only use # for tables? |
| 00:56.56 | Predicate | Its behavior is the same as # for tables only |
| 00:57.31 | Neffi | goes off to shower, but not before upending a box of cat treats over Torhal's head. |
| 00:57.32 | mckenziemc | and he's still allowed to ask why you would want it, because that affects what it would do, what already exists that could be used, and if there's any significance to the wish |
| 00:57.42 | Neffi | sorry ;) |
| 00:57.48 | Torhal | infuses Neffi's water supply with catnip. |
| 00:57.57 | Neffi | oh god |
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| 01:01.05 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, how does # handle array nil holes? |
| 01:01.33 | mckenziemc | it could return any index before a hole |
| 01:01.47 | Predicate | It pretty much falls over dead. |
| 01:01.59 | mckenziemc | so it should only be used on arrays without holes |
| 01:02.31 | NodusCursorius | Does objlen handle nil holes differently or is it just using #? |
| 01:02.46 | Predicate | It behaves exactly the same as # for tables, as I said. |
| 01:03.02 | mckenziemc | (unless your intent is just to stuff the value into any index no larger than the max index + 1 |
| 01:03.10 | NodusCursorius | Is there -any- way to handle nil holes? |
| 01:03.17 | NodusCursorius | Apart from rawget() |
| 01:03.20 | Predicate | You can iterate the table and count it yourself. |
| 01:03.27 | Predicate | I...don't see how rawget would help. |
| 01:03.39 | mckenziemc | wow provides maxn iirc, or you iterate it yourself, or you avoid holes |
| 01:06.22 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, maxn seems to fail on nils : https://forums.coronalabs.com/topic/36704-array-difference-between-and-maxn/ |
| 01:06.35 | NodusCursorius | Manual iteration sounds like the solution. |
| 01:06.56 | mckenziemc | judging from the URL that's probably a separate implementation |
| 01:07.26 | mckenziemc | hmm |
| 01:08.08 | mckenziemc | is that an old standard maxn that was removed? |
| 01:08.26 | NodusCursorius | From 5.0, you mean? |
| 01:08.30 | Torhal | I thought that was Lua 5.0 |
| 01:08.58 | Predicate | Any implementation of maxn is essentially the same as iterating the table yourself (give or take a slight performance benefit for being pure C), anyway. |
| 01:09.04 | mckenziemc | from 5.1, 5.0 could count as old |
| 01:11.22 | NodusCursorius | Just tested in 5.1, still seems to occur. https://repl.it/C18p/0 |
| 01:11.28 | mckenziemc | you could have these same issues in other languages if you designed an array to support some kind of None value, anyway |
| 01:11.34 | mckenziemc | so it's not really a Lua issue |
| 01:12.09 | NodusCursorius | More of a curiosity. |
| 01:13.11 | mckenziemc | sorry, thought that was one that was taken out of 5.1 and added back by blizzard |
| 01:13.24 | mckenziemc | it looks like it's essentially an alias for # |
| 01:13.34 | Predicate | It behaves differently than # |
| 01:13.52 | mckenziemc | curious, how |
| 01:14.11 | Predicate | # is not guaranteed to give you the highest index that has been set, but maxn will. |
| 01:14.22 | mckenziemc | these are the kind of things i either get errors from or look up when i return to a language :p |
| 01:14.30 | Predicate | So in a table with holes, the # operator can (and often will) give you the index before one of the holes. |
| 01:14.41 | mckenziemc | i thought NodusCursorius just indicated maxn won't o.O |
| 01:15.07 | mckenziemc | or is it trailing nils that we're getting caught up on |
| 01:15.11 | Predicate | That table doesn't really have "holes", just a lot of nils. |
| 01:16.27 | Predicate | If you replace one of those trailing nils with a 1 you'll see they behave differently. |
| 01:16.30 | mckenziemc | again, this is why size is a tricky issue |
| 01:16.37 | NodusCursorius | Yup, both seem to handle nils just fine. : https://repl.it/C18p/1 |
| 01:16.57 | mckenziemc | well, length here |
| 01:16.59 | NodusCursorius | Is that a Blizzard improvement? 5.1 docs say it should halt on nil |
| 01:17.04 | Predicate | NodusCursorius: https://repl.it/C18p/2 |
| 01:17.19 | NodusCursorius | Ahh |
| 01:17.31 | NodusCursorius | That makes more sense. |
| 01:17.36 | Predicate | The exact circumstances that make them behave differently are not well defined, that's why the documentation says that # is not guaranteed to give you the highest index, even though it sometimes does. |
| 01:18.22 | mckenziemc | "Is that a Blizzard improvement? 5.1 docs say it should halt on nil" << I assume you're referring to #, and it could return any index before a nil |
| 01:18.23 | NodusCursorius | # seems to work so long as there isn't a trailing nil, regardless of holes. |
| 01:18.55 | mckenziemc | internal state will determine which index gets returned |
| 01:19.00 | Predicate | It "seems to" right up until it doesn't. That's the point of not being guaranteed. |
| 01:19.05 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, correct, yes. But isn't relevant anyway now that I see 5.1 handles it just fine except in the case of a trailing nil. |
| 01:19.15 | mckenziemc | # ? |
| 01:19.24 | NodusCursorius | Yup! I misspoke that line, is all. |
| 01:19.32 | Predicate | Note again that in this simple example we're only looking at a literal initialization, while adding and removing elements later can have different effects on the behavior. |
| 01:19.33 | mckenziemc | again, it might not |
| 01:19.44 | mckenziemc | this |
| 01:19.57 | NodusCursorius | That's frustrating. |
| 01:20.19 | mckenziemc | well, the documentation warns it shouldn't be used that way ;) |
| 01:21.03 | Predicate | If you really want to know the exact state of everything including holes, you should iterate the table yourself, which is exactly what the documentation tells you to do since the deprecation of maxn. |
| 01:21.26 | mckenziemc | the idea is some uses might not care if # works that way - they just want a whole if there are any, and it's quicker than a maxn approach |
| 01:21.50 | Predicate | This is why the "size" of a table is a complicated concept without even getting into the implementation details of dynamic allocation and garbage collection. |
| 01:23.08 | mckenziemc | you could use metatables to make your table more like a class, and track the lowest hole |
| 01:23.39 | mckenziemc | if an element gets removed below the current value, update it; if the current index gets filled, iterate from there up till you find a hole or another end |
| 01:23.56 | mckenziemc | if that's what you want for a particular situation |
| 01:24.17 | mckenziemc | find the end or another hole* |
| 01:31.11 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, yup. Comes down to a long chain of language disagreements/preferences. |
| 01:31.35 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, mckenziemc, thanks for detailing #/objlen for me. |
| 01:36.47 | NodusCursorius | Can #/maxn detect non-numeric indices? |
| 01:37.03 | mckenziemc | no |
| 01:37.26 | Torhal | That would be a dictionary. |
| 01:38.47 | mckenziemc | not in Lua, Torhal; it's a table! |
| 01:39.40 | Torhal | Dictionary-style table. |
| 01:39.47 | Torhal | (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ» |
| 01:39.55 | NodusCursorius | It's good to see that implementing getsize isn't a complicated procedure, at least - http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/lua-getsize/file/fcb41eb42326/getsize.c |
| 01:40.15 | Predicate | For some definition of size, sure. |
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| 02:04.49 | kd3 | wtf kojima |
| 02:06.34 | Rythal | when has kojima ever made sense? he makes good games, but he's always been batshit crazy |
| 02:09.02 | pompy | that screenshot says it all |
| 02:10.10 | pompy | crash! |
| 02:12.20 | Stanzilla | that's what makes him make good games, Rythal |
| 02:12.54 | Stanzilla | also funny to see how they reused that model from PT |
| 02:13.00 | Stanzilla | big fuck you to konami |
| 02:15.47 | Neffi | <NodusCursorius> Is there -any- way to handle nil holes? <- a proxy table with setmetatable() could keep track on insertion and deletion. elsewise you could build an array type with a set size, and override # via __len to return that size |
| 02:17.18 | NodusCursorius | That's a reasonable solution, thanks |
| 02:17.43 | Neffi | like I said before arrays can be implemented in about 5 lines of code |
| 02:18.20 | Neffi | I had an example around, but I don't know where I put it, and I'm on my phone. bit really, its just setmetatable() |
| 02:18.55 | NodusCursorius | Tables without the mental overhead of pointers. Not so bad. |
| 02:19.32 | Neffi | override __newindex to throw on array out of bounds if you like. or just fail silently. same with __index for reads. __len returns length |
| 02:20.03 | Neffi | length can be stored at .n or something, but that's a common convention |
| 02:21.05 | Neffi | in later versions of lua you can overrides __pairs and __ipairs too! unfortunately wow is stuck in the past |
| 02:21.38 | Rythal | hrmm no mention at all today about Kingdom Hearts 3 :/ both conferences Square was all about FFXV :( that makes me a sad panda |
| 02:21.59 | NodusCursorius | What/who decides what is allowed to be overwritten? It's not a mechanical or compiler limitation is it? |
| 02:22.22 | Neffi | what do you mean? |
| 02:23.03 | Neffi | write a __newindex which will either throw error() or return silently when the user tries to set some key i > n |
| 02:23.29 | Neffi | they can still rawset() bit you can't fix people who are determined to break shit |
| 02:23.40 | NodusCursorius | 5.1.x doesn't allow you to override __pairs but 5.2.x (iirc) does allow it like you said. Was this a philosophical change or a mechanical limitation in 5.1? |
| 02:23.55 | NodusCursorius | haha, that's the truth |
| 02:23.59 | Neffi | not the latter |
| 02:24.10 | Neffi | I don't know that it was necessarily a philosophical change either |
| 02:24.12 | nebula | there was no__pairs pre 5.2 |
| 02:24.18 | Predicate | They just...didn't implement a metamethod for it yet. |
| 02:24.32 | Neffi | somebody proposed a reasonable use case on the mailing list. Roberto saw the utility of such a thing |
| 02:24.34 | Predicate | I don't think there was a particular reason, either it hadn't occurred to them or maybe nobody had a real use for it. |
| 02:24.44 | NodusCursorius | Ah, thanks for clarifying. |
| 02:25.04 | Neffi | __pairs makes building types easier. its flexible. it fits well with lua design |
| 02:25.19 | nebula | it was just a new convenience metamethod, you'd just create your own iterator if you needed something fancy |
| 02:25.29 | Predicate | It's not like you couldn't change how you iterated a table, it just didn't have the syntactical sugar of looking identical to a "normal" iteration. |
| 02:26.07 | Neffi | Lua tries to stay lean and nimble. Stuff doesn't make it in without some demonstrable use case, and even still, it has to be flexible and almost primitive to be contemplated as a lua feature |
| 02:26.20 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, sorry meant "pairs existed in 5.1", not the metamethod. |
| 02:26.20 | Neffi | fewer, more flexible facilities as the way lua does things |
| 02:26.45 | NodusCursorius | Which is fine. It's why I care about it at all, really. Good philosophy. |
| 02:26.55 | Neffi | fwiw pairs is redundant |
| 02:27.04 | Neffi | but nobody has convinced Roberto to remove it yet |
| 02:27.21 | Neffi | you can do the same thing with an iterator function already |
| 02:27.36 | nebula | there's ipairs, so why not, "next, table" may look weird to people |
| 02:27.37 | Neffi | % for k, v in next, _G print(k, v) end |
| 02:27.40 | NodusCursorius | "lean and nimble" "but pairs stays <3" |
| 02:27.43 | Neffi | yalb? |
| 02:27.56 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, oh wow, that's a thing in Lua? |
| 02:27.56 | Predicate | I'm with nebula on this one, "next, table" is pretty brain-breaking for me. |
| 02:28.03 | Neffi | there are some concessions for conveinece, NodusCursorius |
| 02:28.11 | Neffi | NodusCursorius: yup |
| 02:28.19 | NodusCursorius | Of course, just taking the jab. Nothing but love for Lua. |
| 02:28.25 | Neffi | pairs() actually just returns next and the table! |
| 02:28.34 | Predicate | Right, but it looks prettier |
| 02:28.49 | Neffi | the for loop expects an iterator function and some state values |
| 02:28.59 | Neffi | pairs() is a pretty way to set that up |
| 02:29.00 | Predicate | Although certainly less flexible if you need to do something weird like modify a table while you're iterating it. |
| 02:29.08 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, would you say that next gives it a more PHP-style readability? |
| 02:29.27 | Predicate | Uh... |
| 02:29.39 | Predicate | There are a lot of issues I have with the phrase "PHP-style readability" |
| 02:29.44 | NodusCursorius | <3 |
| 02:29.54 | Torhal | ipairs can be done away with as well |
| 02:29.57 | Torhal | I rarely use it. |
| 02:30.00 | Neffi | I don't think we should be looking to php for design cues ever |
| 02:30.15 | NodusCursorius | Exactly. |
| 02:30.20 | Neffi | ipairs has a small convenience that's often disregarded |
| 02:30.21 | Torhal | for index = 1, maxCount do stuff() end |
| 02:30.28 | nebula | yea, i use "for i=1,..." or "for k,v in next, table" for most things |
| 02:30.31 | NodusCursorius | Torhal, you've abandoned bo- oh that's actually quite clean. |
| 02:30.37 | Neffi | ipairs() bails on first nil! |
| 02:30.43 | Neffi | not necessarily same as #! |
| 02:30.44 | NodusCursorius | wat |
| 02:30.47 | Predicate | I disagree. PHP is an excellent example of what not to do/allow in a language. |
| 02:30.48 | nebula | Neffi: not always |
| 02:31.04 | Neffi | nebula: no I think it does explicitly |
| 02:31.12 | NodusCursorius | # bails on the trailing nils |
| 02:31.31 | nebula | how it handles nils is kind of undefined |
| 02:31.39 | Predicate | Neffi: so add an "if not v then break end" |
| 02:31.39 | Neffi | sec |
| 02:31.46 | Predicate | It's not rocket science :P |
| 02:31.55 | nebula | 1,nil,2,nil,nil => some compilers get to the 2 |
| 02:31.58 | Neffi | nobody likes writing things like that |
| 02:32.20 | Predicate | Torhal apparently does. |
| 02:32.22 | nebula | builds* |
| 02:32.42 | Neffi | "ill iterate over the pairs (1,t[1]), (2,t[2]), ···, up to the first integer key absent from the table." |
| 02:32.44 | Torhal | Conversely, I only use table.insert() when I need a specific index. Else, I do: tableName[#tableName + 1] = value |
| 02:32.51 | Neffi | ipairs explicitly iterates to first nil |
| 02:32.57 | Neffi | not to length |
| 02:33.03 | Predicate | Torhal: that's just good sense! :D |
| 02:33.16 | Neffi | I disagree |
| 02:33.26 | mckenziemc | Torhal: there might possibly be value in passing ipairs into a function that wants an iterator |
| 02:33.28 | Neffi | table.insert looks cleaner and the speed difference is mere cycles |
| 02:33.51 | NodusCursorius | https://repl.it/C18p/3 |
| 02:33.52 | Neffi | its like stringing together 4 concats to avoid a call to :format() |
| 02:33.56 | Neffi | ugly! |
| 02:33.58 | nebula | i'm with Torhal, but mostly because i've been working with funky for so long and he always uses the longer form of things |
| 02:34.00 | NodusCursorius | ipairs breaks on first nil |
| 02:34.11 | Torhal | nebula: table.concat man |
| 02:34.13 | Predicate | Doesn't table.insert always append to the end, even if there are holes to fill? |
| 02:34.15 | Torhal | Er, Neffi |
| 02:34.59 | Neffi | NodusCursorius: "The length of a table t is defined to be any integer index n such that t[n] is not nil and t[n+1] isnil; moreover, if t[1] is nil, n can be zero. For a regular array, with non-nil values from 1 to a givenn, its length is exactly that n, the index of its last value. If the array has "holes" (that is, nil values between other non-nil values), then #t can be any of the indices that directly precedes a nil value (that is |
| 02:34.59 | Neffi | , it may consider any such nil value as the end of the array)." |
| 02:35.05 | Torhal | And I always use string.format instead of string concatenation when it's more than two strings, and in a loop? No concats. |
| 02:35.27 | Neffi | I basically never concat |
| 02:35.31 | Neffi | its often ugly |
| 02:35.35 | NodusCursorius | Is concat more expensive in this language than string.format? |
| 02:35.40 | Neffi | no |
| 02:35.41 | Neffi | well |
| 02:35.45 | Neffi | maybe |
| 02:35.48 | nebula | it just creates garbage |
| 02:35.50 | mckenziemc | btw NodusCursorius, nil is used to "remove" a value from a table, so trailing nils is a bit strange |
| 02:35.55 | Neffi | concatting numbers is slower than string.format |
| 02:35.59 | Predicate | I concat inside debug print() statements. Anything that sticks around longer than that, I get :format() or table.concat involved. |
| 02:36.02 | mckenziemc | is used, as in one possible use |
| 02:36.36 | Neffi | concatting two strings is faster -- no function call, just an op. but it builds garbage, so you don't concat in a loop! you lack into an array and then use table.concat at the end |
| 02:37.05 | Torhal | randomly places nils in Neffi's memory. |
| 02:37.24 | Predicate | sets Torhal to NaN |
| 02:37.25 | NodusCursorius | Neffi, I read that in the docs. Found it odd that this occurs regardless - https://repl.it/C18p/4 |
| 02:37.32 | mckenziemc | optimizes Neffi prematurely. |
| 02:37.32 | Neffi | corrupts Torhal's cats |
| 02:37.47 | Torhal | My cats are beyond your level of corruption, Neffi. |
| 02:37.53 | NodusCursorius | Er https://repl.it/C18p/5 (typo fix) |
| 02:38.23 | NodusCursorius | So either the documentation is confusing me (self failure) or # only failing on trailing nils is just undocumented? |
| 02:38.31 | mckenziemc | so apparently Addicore send my shipment before I ordered it, but waited until now to tell me |
| 02:38.43 | mckenziemc | Date Shipped: 6/13/2016 12:00:00 AM |
| 02:38.44 | Predicate | # isn't "failing", it's doing exactly what it claims to do. |
| 02:38.51 | nebula | maybe that's what i was thinking of, # behavior is undefined with nils in pil |
| 02:38.52 | Predicate | It's just that it never claims to be consistent. |
| 02:39.03 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, is it uncommon to maintain static-sized tables in Lua? Using nil as placeholder? |
| 02:39.03 | nebula | oh, neffi quoted it |
| 02:39.11 | Neffi | I see no fail |
| 02:39.26 | Predicate | Very uncommon, NodusCursorius, and if you're doing that you probably want a metatable as Neffi described earlier. |
| 02:39.28 | mckenziemc | i don't know if you could depend on them to stay static |
| 02:39.40 | nebula | NodusCursorius: if you want an indexed table with holes, you use false, not nil |
| 02:39.50 | mckenziemc | there we go |
| 02:39.51 | Torhal | That smells like C code, as well. |
| 02:40.04 | Predicate | Or a sentinel value like a local table/userdata, if you need to be able to store false. |
| 02:40.06 | Torhal | ANd yes, false is the way to go. |
| 02:40.13 | Neffi | any insertion into a table may trigger to table to reorganize or "rehash" internally |
| 02:40.37 | NodusCursorius | Torhal, never. I'd never bring C into a discussion :X |
| 02:40.39 | mckenziemc | "The Postal Service could not locate the tracking information for your request. Please verify your tracking number and try again later." |
| 02:40.44 | Torhal | lol |
| 02:40.55 | Torhal | The "trailing nils" is what brought it to mind :) |
| 02:41.25 | Neffi | newproxy() if you need a zero-sized sentinel value which is unique ;) |
| 02:41.30 | Predicate | You're trying to squeeze the concept of a table into the behavior of an array, it just isn't that simple in Lua. |
| 02:41.33 | NodusCursorius | Alright, then it really is just a lack of my reading comprehension with that one section of the docs. The fact that # stops at the first nil if there is a trailing nil was something I found to be unexpected. |
| 02:41.41 | NodusCursorius | As long as it's expected, that just means I'm a moron. |
| 02:41.49 | Predicate | It doesn't stop at the first nil; it *may* stop at *any* nil. |
| 02:42.01 | mckenziemc | this |
| 02:42.07 | mckenziemc | it means what it says |
| 02:42.09 | NodusCursorius | Oh, so I wasn't reading it incorrectly. I don't mind reading documentation though, so what defines "may"? |
| 02:42.21 | mckenziemc | implementation/state details |
| 02:42.22 | Predicate | The interpreter implementation |
| 02:42.25 | nebula | ^ |
| 02:42.32 | NodusCursorius | OH! |
| 02:42.35 | Neffi | the compiler makes a (bad) guess at the initial optimization of the table based on how the constructor looks |
| 02:42.38 | Predicate | The behavior is intentionally left undefined so that implementations can do whatever suits their needs. |
| 02:42.40 | NodusCursorius | Oh. Ew. |
| 02:42.46 | NodusCursorius | But that makes sense now. |
| 02:42.56 | Neffi | the # is a consequence of that |
| 02:43.13 | Neffi | it may be giving you the size of the internal C array sometimes |
| 02:43.25 | NodusCursorius | Thank you so much with your patience on that Neffi, I thought "compiler optimizations" from earlier was an exaggerated example. |
| 02:43.38 | NodusCursorius | It really hands things over carte blanche. |
| 02:43.50 | Neffi | length on a table is basically, like: initial guess -- is it just the size of the internal C array?, etc; then binary search |
| 02:44.30 | Predicate | Part of being a lightweight embeddable language is only specifying behavior that needs to be specified. Depending on where you're implementing Lua, it may be impractical to implement things in a certain way every time. |
| 02:44.38 | mckenziemc | there are benefits to a language not overspecifying how to do things |
| 02:44.48 | Neffi | well the compiler, AFAIK, is free to emit byteclde saying, like, "craft a table with array part of size X and hash part of size Y" |
| 02:44.54 | NodusCursorius | mckenziemc, agreed. Different languages/philosophies for different folk. |
| 02:44.57 | nebula | yea, that's why perl is so great! |
| 02:44.58 | Neffi | it guesses based on content |
| 02:45.02 | NodusCursorius | nods. |
| 02:45.05 | Predicate | ~lart nebula |
| 02:45.05 | purl | whips out a shotgun, trudges over to nebula, and goes postal |
| 02:45.06 | Torhal | stabs nebula with a wheelbarrow. |
| 02:45.13 | nebula | T.T |
| 02:45.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@142-196-129-245.res.bhn.net) |
| 02:45.47 | mckenziemc | ~whalenuke Semlar |
| 02:45.48 | purl | ACTION dons her radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around Semlar with his mind powers. |
| 02:45.48 | NodusCursorius | You mentioned WoW's Lua 5.1 basing off of PUC-Rio, correct? I'd be curious what they changed from it and more curious if that's discernable in the first place, internally. |
| 02:45.49 | Neffi | omg Semlar I thought more trees fell on your house |
| 02:45.59 | Predicate | We have no way of knowing, NodusCursorius |
| 02:46.08 | NodusCursorius | Even looking at the code? |
| 02:46.10 | Neffi | yes, its based on PUC Rio 5.1, which is the original Lua 5.1 |
| 02:46.16 | Neffi | for one they added taint |
| 02:46.22 | Torhal | NodusCursorius: For one, Blizzard backported Lua 4.0's placement behavior in string.format |
| 02:46.30 | Neffi | I heard one of the regulars say they optimized the C call boundary |
| 02:46.32 | Torhal | string.split doesn't exist in base Lua |
| 02:46.38 | Torhal | Bit operations |
| 02:46.40 | Neffi | they broke IEEE754 |
| 02:46.44 | *** join/#wowuidev p3lim (~p3lim@unaffiliated/p3lim) |
| 02:46.45 | Neffi | oh, right, bitops |
| 02:46.46 | Torhal | That isn't a 5..1 thing |
| 02:46.46 | NodusCursorius | huh |
| 02:47.04 | Neffi | AFAIK on win32 in wow nan == nan |
| 02:47.16 | Torhal | No idea why Lua did away with placement tokens in string.split after 4.0, but Blizzard re-added them for localizations. |
| 02:47.18 | Neffi | that might not be true anymore |
| 02:47.18 | nebula | yea, but it can mean many things on mac! |
| 02:47.26 | Predicate | There is a page somewhere on Wowpedia about "WoW-specific functions", I think |
| 02:47.41 | Semlar | THE PRODIGAL ME HAS RETURNED |
| 02:47.43 | Torhal | Err, in string.format |
| 02:47.50 | Neffi | wow has many function aliases right in _G |
| 02:47.53 | Predicate | The big things are taint and its associated methods, the bitlib and coroutine stuff, and the compat.lua aliases you're familiar with. |
| 02:47.57 | NodusCursorius | Right, but I always find myself having to obtain missing information whenever I look at wowpedia for API things. |
| 02:48.00 | Semlar | it's as if i never left |
| 02:48.01 | Torhal | performs a bisecting merge on Semlar and Neffi. |
| 02:48.06 | mckenziemc | coroutine? |
| 02:48.14 | mckenziemc | how's WoW different from 5.1? |
| 02:48.15 | Torhal | Coroutines are base 5.1 |
| 02:48.20 | nebula | https://github.com/cogwheel/lua-wow/blob/master/src/lwowlib.c#L297 |
| 02:48.27 | Semlar | man it is a long drive from north carolina to orlando |
| 02:48.33 | NodusCursorius | __const:0000000101C6CE50 _lua_ident db '$Lua: Lua 5.1.4 Copyright (C) 1994-2008 Lua.org, PUC-Rio $',0Ah |
| 02:48.36 | NodusCursorius | Oh well that was simple. |
| 02:48.37 | Neffi | yeah Im wondering too what they did with coroutine? |
| 02:48.50 | Predicate | I was under the impression they had a modified implementation to suit WoW's threading implementation? |
| 02:48.55 | Predicate | I am likely wrong though. |
| 02:48.57 | Torhal | Threading? |
| 02:48.57 | nebula | i don't think so |
| 02:49.07 | Predicate | Well, lack thereof :P |
| 02:49.18 | Torhal | Coroutines exist in lieu of threading. |
| 02:49.31 | Neffi | coroutines are not OS level threads |
| 02:49.39 | mckenziemc | forcefully preempts Torhal. |
| 02:49.53 | Neffi | it's just jumps in the VM |
| 02:49.55 | Torhal | continues. |
| 02:50.04 | Neffi | well, more than that actually |
| 02:50.09 | Neffi | never mind |
| 02:50.10 | Predicate | I understand that, but I (wrongly?) assumed there was some special handling. |
| 02:50.38 | Neffi | well yes there's complications like yielding across C call boundaries |
| 02:50.49 | Predicate | For what it's worth, I haven't used coroutines or seen much need for them in WoW, so it's pretty moot I guess. |
| 02:50.59 | Torhal | AFAIK WoW Lua's coroutines are no different from Lua 5.1's |
| 02:51.04 | mckenziemc | Predicate: Script ran too long. |
| 02:51.05 | nebula | they use a shit tonne of memory |
| 02:51.07 | Neffi | I've not used coroutines in any serious way |
| 02:51.09 | Torhal | I've used them in a few instances. |
| 02:51.12 | nebula | thats my experience with them |
| 02:51.19 | Predicate | mckenziemc: There are many ways to handle that type of processing. |
| 02:51.19 | Torhal | Mostly in Ackie Recipe List |
| 02:51.24 | Torhal | Ackis* |
| 02:51.27 | Neffi | nebula: they shouldn't ... |
| 02:51.41 | nebula | i know wa uses them pretty liberally |
| 02:51.43 | Neffi | Predicate: in wow lua? how? |
| 02:52.01 | Torhal | I do some seriously intensive stuff for datamining/dumping that would hard lock the client without coroutines. |
| 02:52.01 | Neffi | I see no way aside from coroutines or static analysis |
| 02:52.08 | Predicate | I mean, if you're processing a large amount of data, you can batch it in OnUpdate or whatnot. |
| 02:52.14 | Neffi | no sethook() in wow |
| 02:52.20 | Neffi | right |
| 02:52.36 | Neffi | but coroutines let you write procedurally |
| 02:53.05 | Predicate | There are certainly a few cases where coroutines are the most practical solution, but I don't think they're anyone's first tool to reach for in the case of "script ran too long". |
| 02:53.06 | Neffi | then you write a dumb little scheduler that batches it up in onupdate |
| 02:53.41 | Neffi | thats a shame though |
| 02:53.56 | Neffi | they are simple, powerful and make the problem easy |
| 02:54.12 | Semlar | i don't think my cat even noticed i left |
| 02:54.13 | Neffi | I think people think they are complicated so they avoid them |
| 02:54.25 | Neffi | semlat: you left? |
| 02:54.28 | Predicate | Much like multithreading :P |
| 02:54.30 | Neffi | Semlar* |
| 02:54.31 | Semlar | :O |
| 02:55.16 | mckenziemc | well the seml part did, but not the (c)at part |
| 02:55.23 | Semlar | i know what coroutines do and i have never had any reason to use one instead of something more efficient and easy to read |
| 02:56.32 | Torhal | When scanning every skill in a profession, then dumping it out to EditBoxes, I had to either go the OnUpdate route or use coroutines, else I'd lock the client and DC. |
| 02:56.35 | Semlar | you sort of have to be looking for a reason to use coroutines to use one |
| 02:56.46 | Predicate | Torhal: That's like 80% the EditBox's fault, though |
| 02:56.52 | Neffi | I disagree Semlar |
| 02:56.58 | Torhal | Predicate: Not really :) |
| 02:57.11 | nebula | yea, it's 80% Ackis's fault |
| 02:57.49 | mckenziemc | ~smackis |
| 02:57.49 | purl | ACTION smacks Ackis. |
| 02:57.57 | Torhal | Predicate: They're pretty shit, true, but I broke them up into per-expansion, per-profession so they didn't cause the locks. |
| 02:58.15 | Torhal | Up until MoP I could get away with simply per-profession. |
| 02:58.15 | Predicate | Why not just put it in SVs and read it out-of-game? |
| 02:58.15 | Semlar | locks torhal in an edit box |
| 02:58.41 | Predicate | I aggressively avoid using copy-paste to get data into or out of WoW |
| 02:58.45 | Torhal | Predicate: Because the dump format is Lua code that Ressy pastes directly into the ARL DB files that are read when the AddOn loads. |
| 02:59.01 | Torhal | It's literally a datamine dump. |
| 02:59.15 | Predicate | You can reformat it with standalone Lua if you want... |
| 02:59.15 | mckenziemc | locks Semlar inside a heart-shaped box. |
| 02:59.44 | Neffi | Semlar: this isn't really apt for wow but I read this recently and its not a bad post outlining why coroutines are useful http://leafo.net/posts/itchio-and-coroutines.html |
| 03:00.08 | Predicate | I don't know about you guys but I have scripts that scrape stuff out of my SVs for lots of things already, it doesn't seem troublesome at all (especially with a tool like entr to monitor for file changes). |
| 03:00.48 | Torhal | I'm not going to expect the people (currently only Ressy) who are maintaining the recipe DBs to run scripts and such. |
| 03:00.56 | Torhal | So I made it possible to do everything in-game. |
| 03:01.37 | Semlar | Neffi: coroutines are just kind of a lazy way to snapshot the state of a function to return the next value in a sequence when it gets called again |
| 03:01.40 | Predicate | That's fair, I guess. I didn't even realize they were actively maintained, to be honest. |
| 03:02.04 | Neffi | no they are not |
| 03:02.26 | Torhal | It's a way to fake threading. |
| 03:02.28 | Neffi | read the post I linked |
| 03:02.29 | Torhal | Not be lazy. |
| 03:02.31 | Semlar | show me one good use case that you couldn't use something more efficient to do |
| 03:02.31 | Torhal | WTF Semlar. |
| 03:02.55 | Neffi | more efficient? coroutines are very efficient |
| 03:02.59 | Semlar | what |
| 03:03.07 | Neffi | again see the post I linked |
| 03:03.19 | Neffi | you can't do that at all without coroutine's |
| 03:03.26 | Predicate | I feel like I'm about to need some popcorn. |
| 03:03.36 | Neffi | no, im going to sleep |
| 03:03.51 | Semlar | you know i can't read neffi, there are like at least 5 paragraphs here |
| 03:03.57 | Neffi | :/ |
| 03:03.59 | Torhal | More, Semlar. |
| 03:04.03 | Semlar | tldr |
| 03:04.11 | Torhal | Now go back to writing toys you'll just end up scrapping and not releasing. |
| 03:04.13 | Torhal | :D |
| 03:04.15 | nebula | neffi.yield("sleep") |
| 03:04.24 | Predicate | Whoa, shots fired |
| 03:04.49 | Semlar | god damn node.js hipsters |
| 03:05.18 | Neffi | this is specifically arguing how lua's coroutines are way better than node style callback nesting |
| 03:05.29 | Semlar | ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NODE |
| 03:05.46 | Neffi | you can write straightforward procedural code because the API can yield up control back to the scheduler |
| 03:05.50 | Semlar | YOU CAN'T GET MUCH WORSE THAN THEIR NESTED CALLBACK NONSENSE |
| 03:06.18 | Neffi | D: |
| 03:07.00 | Neffi | OK I go slep |
| 03:07.16 | Semlar | why is every interstate under construction everywhere neffi |
| 03:07.39 | Neffi | because you want to use them |
| 03:07.42 | Neffi | life is a dick |
| 03:07.49 | Semlar | life is a dick |
| 03:08.08 | Semlar | that is a true fact |
| 03:08.10 | Torhal | Predicate: This is what the datamine/dump tool outputs http://www.wowace.com/paste/akl341om6riqv957/ |
| 03:08.20 | Semlar | i need to unpack |
| 03:08.30 | Torhal | calls Semlar.unpack() |
| 03:08.37 | Semlar | did i even bring my stuff in |
| 03:08.52 | Semlar | no i left it outside |
| 03:08.57 | Semlar | hm |
| 03:09.00 | Torhal | In the jungle?!? |
| 03:09.04 | Semlar | maybe i should go to sleep |
| 03:09.23 | Semlar | well i just left my suitcase on the front step |
| 03:09.25 | Predicate | Torhal: ignoring the question of whether there's a better syntax for doing that, it's still something I personally would do out-of-game simply because I have more flexibility that way. I understand not doing so when you're having someone else run the code, though. |
| 03:09.29 | Semlar | i had a bunch of stuff i had to put away |
| 03:10.39 | Torhal | Predicate: The syntax was also a decision of "Some of this will need to be hand-tweaked at times, and having a large table or sets of tables will be daunting to someone unfamiliar with Lua" |
| 03:10.47 | Neffi | die you move Semlar? |
| 03:11.15 | Torhal | That output is easily understandable by just about anyone. |
| 03:11.25 | Neffi | did* |
| 03:11.35 | Neffi | I should slep, 6 hours til work |
| 03:11.37 | Predicate | Sure, it's a compromise of machine-readable and human-readable, I get it :) |
| 03:11.39 | Semlar | i went somewhere and then came back |
| 03:11.44 | Neffi | oh I srr |
| 03:11.48 | Neffi | was it nice? |
| 03:12.01 | Predicate | On a semi-related note, is Legion gonna be a total rewrite? |
| 03:12.04 | Semlar | nicer than the apparent massacre that happened as soon as i left |
| 03:12.15 | Neffi | :/ |
| 03:12.34 | Semlar | i guess i was keeping things under control |
| 03:12.34 | Neffi | sorry to remind you of such things |
| 03:12.38 | Neffi | ofc |
| 03:12.43 | Torhal | I need to find the time/energy (currently working seven-day weeks for unknown length of time) but it'll be non-trivial if not substantial. |
| 03:13.04 | Torhal | Just the TradeSkillUI changes for the most part. |
| 03:13.25 | Torhal | But I'm hoping some of it will become less complex due to the new C_TradeSkillUI stuff |
| 03:13.34 | Neffi | forget that, spend your time lookin gooding people, Torhal |
| 03:13.35 | Predicate | At least you don't have to add a bunch of data for the new recipes! :D |
| 03:13.50 | mckenziemc | hey Torhal |
| 03:13.54 | Torhal | Maybe :) |
| 03:13.56 | Torhal | hey mckenziemc |
| 03:13.57 | mckenziemc | i worked seven-day weeks for 2 1/2 years |
| 03:14.07 | Torhal | You aren't old. |
| 03:14.15 | mckenziemc | hurls as newspaper at Torhal's face. |
| 03:14.22 | Torhal | Get off my damn lawn. |
| 03:14.28 | NodusCursorius | All I want is the ability to manually alter the contents of EAX registry in Lua. |
| 03:14.33 | NodusCursorius | That's it. Is that so much to ask? |
| 03:14.41 | Neffi | Yes. |
| 03:14.53 | NodusCursorius | Just one *scratches neck* registry. You wouldn't even miss it. It's spare, right? |
| 03:14.59 | NodusCursorius | I'll pay it back anyway. I'm good for it. |
| 03:15.02 | mckenziemc | Torhal: I currently have a paper subscription; does that make up for me not being old? |
| 03:15.27 | Torhal | No. I don't have a paper subscription. Screw that. |
| 03:15.36 | Torhal | I already throw away too much paper from mail spam. |
| 03:15.53 | mckenziemc | but can you throw it at people from the road? |
| 03:15.53 | Predicate | NodusCursorius: you worry me sometimes. |
| 03:16.20 | Torhal | Ok, shift is over. Since it started four hours earlier than I'm used to and my sleep has been almost non-existent lately, Ithink I'll go to bed. |
| 03:16.33 | mckenziemc | don't forget to yield |
| 03:16.41 | Torhal | I always resume. |
| 03:16.52 | mckenziemc | learn to cooperate |
| 03:17.49 | NodusCursorius | Predicate, pop it push it call it jnz it jmp it xor it nop it cmpxchg16b it |
| 03:18.07 | Predicate | I'd rather not, thanks. |
| 03:18.27 | mckenziemc | o.o |
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| 04:28.20 | nebula | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyblkxGJB68 i wonder how common place it is for critics to try and shit on a movie so directly in an interview like that |
| 04:30.00 | nebula | i imagine the press tour is pretty trying as is, i'd lose my shit in that situation |
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| 05:43.24 | fewyn | dude |
| 05:43.29 | fewyn | sony knows how to do a presser |
| 05:43.32 | fewyn | at e3 |
| 05:59.05 | Semlar | pointing out where they felt the movie fell short is most of the job description for a film critic |
| 05:59.10 | Semlar | nebula |
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| 06:46.01 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
| 07:34.01 | VIad | ah memories. found my vanilla wow receipt. bought it in one of the school vacations, 27 sept 2005, I just turned 16 years old :d |
| 07:34.23 | VIad | even says the name of the guy that sold it to me, can sms him a creepy hello |
| 07:41.47 | karl_w_w | all sms "hello"s are creepy |
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| 07:48.55 | VIad | creepms |
| 07:49.08 | VIad | well the dude is 40 years old now, I still remember him in his 30s :p |
| 07:49.28 | VIad | it was a big day for me and my friend, we walked for hours to find a store that sold the game, it was sold out in most shops, and it was one week vacation |
| 07:49.50 | nevcairiel | i just ordered mine from amazon |
| 07:49.51 | VIad | so when we found a shop that had it after like 4 hours, terrible exciteness |
| 07:50.05 | nevcairiel | on release day of course |
| 07:50.08 | VIad | I had to get cash from mom |
| 07:50.20 | VIad | she dont trust internet and her bank card back then |
| 07:50.38 | nevcairiel | you are like half a year after release, and it was still sold out? :p |
| 07:50.47 | VIad | in that particular vacation, yes :d |
| 07:51.08 | VIad | its like høstferie, one week in october? |
| 07:51.19 | nevcairiel | but in september? |
| 07:51.23 | VIad | sorry |
| 07:51.26 | VIad | september* :p |
| 07:53.25 | VIad | I started the game and already had some addons, like titanbar :p |
| 07:53.49 | VIad | because the weeks before we played a bit on private servers since we couldn't have the game yet |
| 08:01.52 | VIad | nevcairiel: how old were you back then, 20? |
| 08:02.22 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 08:11.51 | VIad | neat |
| 08:11.57 | karl_w_w | I'm trying to remember what I was doing with my life/free time before I started playing wow, and I've got nothing |
| 08:12.33 | karl_w_w | I didn't start playing til part way through BC |
| 08:13.25 | nevcairiel | before wow i played browser based strategy games a lot |
| 08:14.03 | nevcairiel | at least for a couple years |
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| 08:43.47 | Industrial | I played Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Runescape, and since wow probably every free to play MMO that isn't a MOBA or just very bad |
| 08:43.58 | Industrial | RIFT, all the things :p |
| 08:44.21 | Industrial | GW, GW2, EQ |
| 08:44.24 | Industrial | jeez |
| 08:44.25 | VIad | < half life games |
| 08:44.44 | Industrial | oh yeah I used to be in a TFC clan around 2002 :P |
| 08:44.49 | Industrial | UKTFCL div2 D: |
| 08:49.34 | VIad | max payne |
| 08:49.35 | VIad | halo |
| 08:49.39 | VIad | UT games |
| 08:49.45 | VIad | CS ofc |
| 08:49.51 | VIad | I think I played a lot of shooters |
| 08:49.56 | VIad | also dead or alive |
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| 10:34.26 | karl_w_w | ahh that beautiful 2-week period after buying a new mouse when the scroll wheel still works perfectly |
| 10:37.57 | Miiru | i dissassembled and cleaned my mouse i think 2 or 3 weeks ago and it felt like new afetr cleaning it :) |
| 10:53.59 | VIad | I haven't been able to disassemble my G700 :/ |
| 10:54.11 | VIad | do they even make them disassemable? |
| 10:54.50 | Miiru | i have a g500 |
| 10:55.01 | Miiru | they dont look that different |
| 10:55.12 | Miiru | http://imgur.com/fyBk54n |
| 10:55.28 | Miiru | 5 screws |
| 10:55.40 | Miiru | ah amybe more at the battery slot |
| 10:56.04 | karl_w_w | https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Disassembling+Logitech+Wireless+Gaming+Mouse+G700+Mouse+buttons/27326 |
| 11:00.51 | VIad | next time I should buy a mouse designed to be cleaned :p if such exist |
| 11:16.45 | VIad | my old logitech had 4 screws, one of them inside, so was easy to take a part. but I dont like how I need to remove the mats below, since the screws are beneath them :/ |
| 11:20.58 | VIad | havent listened to music at work in weeks |
| 11:21.33 | VIad | I had to wipe of a little tears, because music is amazing and I missed it |
| 11:45.44 | karl_w_w | you can get replacement feet for most mice off ebay |
| 11:46.22 | NodusCursorius | What the fuck |
| 11:46.32 | NodusCursorius | oh god. Oh, ok. Computer mice |
| 11:47.07 | NodusCursorius | I need to not read human text without sleep. |
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| 11:51.39 | VIad | drugs, not once |
| 11:53.16 | Fisker | hughugs Cairenn |
| 11:53.22 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
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| 11:55.33 | VIad | group hugs Fisker and Cairenn. They both stare at him awkwardly. |
| 11:55.44 | Cairenn | hugs VIad |
| 11:58.36 | VIad | Cairenn: I think there are some issues with the beta invites |
| 11:58.56 | Cairenn | Such as? |
| 11:59.35 | VIad | my friends signed up but no beta invite yet :'( |
| 11:59.49 | Cairenn | ... |
| 12:00.13 | VIad | these wowhead and curse draw chances are just way too low |
| 12:00.13 | Cairenn | I send the lists in to Blizzard. They invite when they feel like it. |
| 12:00.21 | Cairenn | shrugs |
| 12:00.47 | VIad | the chances to win based on keys they give out per week, and how many that sign up, like 0.05% :p |
| 12:00.58 | Cairenn | And? |
| 12:01.13 | VIad | they will probably play legion when it goes live :p |
| 12:01.23 | Cairenn | Okay, and? |
| 12:01.38 | VIad | I cant play with them and abuse them to help me fix on some of my addons :p |
| 12:01.47 | VIad | I need test slaves |
| 12:02.14 | VIad | testing group roll is impossible |
| 12:02.25 | VIad | because everything uses the new loot system that revolves around PL :p |
| 12:03.16 | VIad | btw if you didnt catch on I was joking, I wasnt refering to the addon program at wowi at all |
| 12:03.52 | Cairenn | Hadn't caught on, thought you were about to ask me to put them on my list |
| 12:04.08 | VIad | haha, no |
| 12:04.20 | Cairenn | Good thing, because I was about to get grumpy at you. |
| 12:04.40 | VIad | I remembered someone ask about beta yesterday or something |
| 12:05.20 | VIad | so wanted to poke at you for fun :( |
| 12:05.30 | Cairenn | :) |
| 12:07.53 | VIad | tbh I didnt think you would think like that, never even crossed my mind |
| 12:08.38 | Cairenn | Too many years of exactly that happening. And just having answered the same person for the third time in under a week that it's up to Blizz when they will invite. |
| 12:09.13 | VIad | I mean, do people ask you to invite their friends? I guess there would be :p |
| 12:09.25 | Kalroth | Cairenn, so is that a yes or no for an invite?! |
| 12:09.30 | Cairenn | "Ahh, make an exception for me because reasons" |
| 12:09.34 | Kalroth | runs for it. |
| 12:09.36 | Cairenn | pokes kalt |
| 12:09.42 | Cairenn | Kalroth* |
| 12:09.47 | Kalroth | eep. |
| 12:09.47 | VIad | :d |
| 12:10.02 | VIad | I guess if someone was serious |
| 12:10.18 | VIad | it would involve $100, paypal and a private message :p |
| 12:10.33 | Cairenn | It would involve a lot more than that |
| 12:11.29 | VIad | like certain services? |
| 12:11.38 | Cairenn | o.O |
| 12:12.14 | VIad | like painting your fence our house - its hard work |
| 12:12.36 | VIad | would be tempting if all I had to do is give them a beta key for a game that costs less than the paint |
| 12:13.03 | Cairenn | Well, I suppose if someone offered to come clean my house from top to bottom, I might be willing |
| 12:13.05 | VIad | maybe if I get an extra key via these competitions I can ask my friend to help me with some tedious labor |
| 12:13.15 | VIad | not just give him the key |
| 12:14.21 | VIad | have you written any addons in the past years, Cairenn? |
| 12:14.30 | Cairenn | Not for a long time now |
| 12:14.42 | VIad | when you wrote, was it the global age? |
| 12:14.53 | Cairenn | ? |
| 12:14.59 | VIad | putting everything in the global scope - MyAddon_Config_Enabled = true |
| 12:15.07 | Cairenn | oh |
| 12:15.25 | VIad | a lot of the older guides I remember are like that :p |
| 12:15.25 | Cairenn | Yeah, no, never wrote for WoW |
| 12:15.43 | VIad | what languages do you know? |
| 12:15.52 | Cairenn | officially? none :p |
| 12:16.05 | nevcairiel | english, probably |
| 12:16.11 | Cairenn | lol |
| 12:16.19 | Cairenn | point nevcairiel |
| 12:16.32 | nevcairiel | maybe even a bit of french, being canadian and all |
| 12:16.53 | VIad | sounds like my grandmother - only person I know that doesn't know any other languages than the primary language, nor any coding languages :p |
| 12:17.14 | VIad | everyone at least knows a secondary language, though usually that is english to be fair |
| 12:17.22 | Cairenn | Wow ... you did not just say I'm as old as your grandmother ... |
| 12:17.25 | VIad | no |
| 12:17.35 | Cairenn | It sure sounded like you did |
| 12:17.40 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:17.54 | Cairenn | Just stop, before you make it any worse :p |
| 12:18.12 | VIad | gets backhanded by Cairenn for talking shit. |
| 12:18.35 | Cairenn | Oh no sweetie, I don't hit. That's too kind. |
| 12:18.49 | VIad | more like pikes and whips? |
| 12:19.17 | VIad | or maybe psychological torture |
| 12:19.19 | VIad | thats nasty too |
| 12:22.53 | VIad | I never understood stuff like sweetie/hon |
| 12:22.59 | VIad | american culture? |
| 12:23.04 | Cairenn | ... |
| 12:23.16 | Cairenn | You did not just call me an American... |
| 12:23.29 | nevcairiel | whats the name of the continent you live on? |
| 12:23.30 | nevcairiel | :) |
| 12:23.41 | VIad | euroasia? |
| 12:23.42 | Cairenn | point 2, nevcairiel |
| 12:24.00 | VIad | eurasia* |
| 12:24.17 | nevcairiel | dont you have typical nicknames like that VIad in your language |
| 12:24.25 | VIad | I mean we do but |
| 12:24.30 | VIad | not really used like in english |
| 12:24.44 | VIad | and sounds awkward to say in common speech, like old school awkward |
| 12:24.50 | VIad | outdated? |
| 12:25.06 | Cairenn | So now you're saying I'm outdated? |
| 12:25.29 | VIad | why are you so fixated on your age, Cairenn? everything leads to age with you |
| 12:25.57 | VIad | next thing I mention british wine and I get the backhand again from you |
| 12:25.59 | nevcairiel | i better evcuate, someone is getting murdered later |
| 12:26.20 | VIad | /later/now/ |
| 12:28.18 | VIad | I guess like "mum" in england |
| 12:28.36 | VIad | unsure how often that is used though |
| 12:28.46 | VIad | unless its your actual mom |
| 12:28.50 | Cairenn | I know that 'luv' is still used a lot |
| 12:28.58 | Cairenn | In England |
| 12:29.05 | VIad | that too |
| 12:29.35 | VIad | think there are more words in england and the countries around, than in american english |
| 12:33.30 | VIad | you probably reacted because I said american but you are canadian? |
| 12:34.00 | nevcairiel | "american" is typically assocated with the US, not the continent as such |
| 12:34.06 | Fisker | hugs Cairenn regardless of culture |
| 12:34.12 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
| 12:34.41 | Cairenn | Correct, VIad, and yeah, nevcairie |
| 12:34.41 | VIad | and canada is angry aboot that? |
| 12:34.54 | Cairenn | l |
| 12:35.03 | Cairenn | VIad: not angry |
| 12:35.56 | VIad | I wonder how president trump will effect the US |
| 12:36.02 | VIad | and relation to canada |
| 12:36.06 | Cairenn | shudders |
| 12:36.08 | VIad | s* |
| 12:36.19 | Fisker | Nothing much VIad |
| 12:36.30 | VIad | he may ask canada to build a wall and pay for it on the northern border |
| 12:36.55 | Cairenn | If Trump becomes president of the US, we may build one regardless |
| 12:37.08 | VIad | in media they speak about trump vs hillary, but poor sanders not even brought up |
| 12:37.25 | Cairenn | Fucking terrifying, the thought of Trump as pres down there |
| 12:37.30 | Fisker | Trump will either not become president or not actually be the shithead he appears to be |
| 12:37.37 | Fisker | So I'm not worried |
| 12:37.42 | nevcairiel | and what if he is? |
| 12:37.58 | Fisker | Super Coup bros nevcairiel |
| 12:38.04 | VIad | like the media, bernie just disappears from the conversation like he is irrelevant :( |
| 12:39.16 | VIad | maybe its because I like him, that means no one else does, because I have a weird taste |
| 12:39.43 | Fisker | Trump is just playing on the fact that politics suck |
| 12:45.34 | VIad | wonder if anything will change, its like the political process in the US is old, and changes that happen are usually lobby related, not to really improve on anything bureaucratic |
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| 14:39.25 | Torhal | Shit. I missed Cairenn being accused of being American. |
| 14:52.29 | Ressy | psh |
| 14:52.37 | Ressy | Who wants to be American |
| 14:55.02 | VIad | Torhal: also missed the part I called her old, twice |
| 15:22.10 | Semlar | setfenv(Torhal, Cats) |
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| 15:31.31 | Ressy | Thats not so nice VIad. |
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| 16:18.19 | karl_w_w | https://www.google.com.au/search?q=women+laughing+with+salad |
| 16:18.24 | karl_w_w | so that's a thing that exists |
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| 16:47.25 | Simca | yeah |
| 16:48.09 | Simca | it was brought to my attention a couple years ago when a user made a 'women laughing with salad' thread on mmoc, following his greatly successful 'birds with arms' thread |
| 16:48.45 | karl_w_w | you don't make friends with salad |
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| 17:11.49 | Tentacled | nevcairiel: I forgot to say good job on that originalInstance fix. However, here's another fun thing for you: HBD bombs if there's a WORLD_MAP_UPDATE during loading. |
| 17:11.49 | Tentacled | http://puu.sh/pszkx/1d3017b8b6.txt |
| 17:12.45 | Tentacled | Specifically, if someone happens to call GetPlayerZonePosition during a bad time. |
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| 17:35.13 | VIad | maybe these can help avoid that? LOADING_SCREEN_ENABLED/disabled? |
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| 19:13.28 | karl_w_w | trying to find an android video player that doesn't fall on its butt when you give it 10 bit video |
| 19:13.37 | karl_w_w | not happening |
| 19:30.52 | zenzelezz | do you have many 10-bit videos? |
| 19:32.32 | Stanzilla | karl_w_w: mpc hc |
| 19:38.30 | karl_w_w | no zenzelezz. android Stanzilla |
| 19:39.39 | Stanzilla | oh |
| 19:39.49 | Stanzilla | not sure how good vlc is there |
| 19:40.06 | Gnarfoz | mx player? I haven't tried, tho |
| 19:42.25 | karl_w_w | mx player the audio drops out, vlc has artufacting |
| 19:58.37 | karl_w_w | aha, if you tell mx player explicitly to use all your cpu cores it just about manages to keep up |
| 19:58.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~Industria@46-129-154-42.dynamic.upc.nl) |
| 19:59.04 | Gnarfoz | so your device doesn't have a 10-bit h/w decoder |
| 20:15.58 | karl_w_w | most don't, i would think |
| 20:52.00 | VIad | tbh map activity isnt needed when loading screen is shown, same applies to most addons really :p |
| 20:52.09 | VIad | just on the subject of weird map coordinates on HBD |
| 20:52.23 | VIad | I guess ideally UI related addons can relax if the loading screen is shown :p |
| 21:02.51 | *** join/#wowuidev ScratchMonkey (~quassel@2601:644:1:230d:f043:de17:1d79:3e58) |
| 21:04.31 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:16.44 | *** join/#wowuidev nimhfree (~scott@65-183-146-244-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net) |
| 21:40.44 | kd3 | whee. another flash 0-day that isn't getting patched for a few days. which day-ending-in-y is it? |
| 21:50.14 | *** join/#wowuidev FireSiku (~FireSiku@216.228.216.83) |
| 21:51.43 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-182d795d.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:51.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 21:52.02 | mckenziemc | Dienstag, kd3 |
| 21:56.57 | foxlit | fire day follows moon day, making the week spell out "moonfire" |
| 22:02.22 | Semlar | balances foxlit |
| 22:08.56 | mckenziemc | moonfire-spams Semlar. |
| 22:17.50 | foxlit | it's water day next, Semlar. Very balanced. |
| 22:18.05 | Semlar | moon firewater? |
| 22:21.01 | foxlit | heh, 7.0 ptr. |
| 22:21.07 | foxlit | Maybe I should stop ignoring it. |
| 22:23.44 | nevcairiel | ignoring what, 7.0 or the ptr? |
| 22:23.52 | foxlit | 7.0 |
| 22:24.30 | *** part/#wowuidev FireSiku (~FireSiku@216.228.216.83) |
| 22:25.49 | Stanzilla | yeah foxlit, need opie :D |
| 22:26.17 | nevcairiel | i need pie |
| 22:27.01 | foxlit | could I just outsource it to Semlar? |
| 22:27.36 | Semlar | what kind of pie |
| 22:27.53 | nevcairiel | fruits, not meat |
| 22:28.30 | Primer | Pigeon pie |
| 22:30.15 | foxlit | something starting with U. |
| 22:30.56 | kd3 | don't outsource it to semlar. we'll get screenshots but never actually see it |
| 22:31.34 | Semlar | i only do key lime and pumpkin |
| 22:31.46 | kd3 | key lime pie, yum |
| 22:31.54 | foxlit | "University Of Tennessee Orange" "University Of California Gold" |
| 22:32.27 | kd3 | the former was the color of my bedroom as a kid, thanks to my parents |
| 22:33.08 | foxlit | I had orange walls as well. |
| 22:34.12 | Semlar | upside-down pie |
| 22:40.10 | kd3 | hahaha, wow. https://twitter.com/Pokketsays/status/742425389201391616 |
| 22:50.04 | Semlar | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pies,_tarts_and_flans you're out of luck foxlit |
| 22:50.33 | foxlit | it's the sucky part of the alphabet in English. |
| 22:50.45 | Semlar | here http://www.fruit.realisticcoloringpages.com/2015/09/fruit-names-beginning-with-u.html |
| 22:51.52 | *** join/#wowuidev FireSiku (~FireSiku@216.228.216.83) |
| 22:55.22 | Simca | foreach(Stream stream in streams) |
| 22:55.33 | Simca | best naming ever |
| 22:55.33 | Semlar | tries to calm simca down |
| 23:03.29 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad1 (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
| 23:39.07 | foxlit | Wish list: fileid = GetTextureFileID("path") |
| 23:40.27 | foxlit | Or maybe Texture widgets' GetTexture should prefer numeric IDs as a return value regardless of what was passed to SetTexture. |
| 23:42.45 | nevcairiel | why do you need to know the id |
| 23:45.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 23:45.25 | foxlit | Because I kind of need consistent identifiers for resources, and the api spits out ids now |
| 23:45.57 | nevcairiel | what if its a addon texture |
| 23:46.40 | foxlit | Then it doesn't have a file id and there is nothing to do. |
| 23:47.01 | nevcairiel | why cant you assume the others dont have one either |
| 23:48.37 | foxlit | Because I don't want to ship a twice-as-large hash table just to deal with aliases. |
| 23:52.01 | foxlit | (Old user prefs would reference paths, new user prefs would reference ids; both need to be mapped to some data) |
| 23:53.34 | foxlit | Having the path->id translation available would allow me to just have an id->data map. |
| 23:54.00 | foxlit | Plus, its free to the client as it already has to do that to load the texture. |
| 23:57.52 | mckenziemc | doubles foxlit's workload. |