| 00:06.36 | *** join/#wowuidev straddle (~thunderin@158.130.210.122) |
| 00:09.31 | fewyn | http://i.imgur.com/ujfDCor.jpg |
| 00:12.26 | Semlar2 | what |
| 00:12.50 | Gnarfoz | anyone planning on buying something from Razer? http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/13/all-razer-peripherals-and-accessories-are-half-off-thursday/ |
| 00:13.11 | Stanzilla | Semlar2: death poo l |
| 00:13.27 | Semlar2 | skullpool? |
| 00:13.44 | Semlar2 | they couldn't put the skull in a deadpool costume or something? |
| 00:18.08 | Semlar2 | i honestly would never have figured out what this is supposed to be |
| 00:18.37 | Gnarfoz | not-deadpool fan detected |
| 00:18.49 | Semlar2 | is that coming out soon |
| 00:19.31 | Gnarfoz | probably not at the date on that billboard, no way. |
| 00:19.54 | Semlar2 | it looked a little terrible in the trailers i saw like a year ago |
| 00:20.01 | Mr_Rabies | man the new banjo kazooie is gonna be weird http://i.imgur.com/wAwMId8.jpg |
| 00:20.40 | Semlar2 | the deadpool jokes didn't translate well to the big screen |
| 00:21.01 | Mr_Rabies | if nothing else the costume is spot-on |
| 00:21.23 | Semlar2 | maybe the movie will be better |
| 00:21.26 | Mr_Rabies | i thought the ASM2 costume was great, but the deadpool one is fantastic |
| 00:21.41 | Mr_Rabies | i keep wanting to use comic adjectives |
| 00:57.50 | Trela | looks up. |
| 00:57.54 | Trela | SKULLPOOPL. |
| 01:00.42 | plaw | Cairenn: so the roo experts have spoken up about that male roo mourning lost partner story while joey watches on. apparently it's more like er... a bit of necrophilia while joey watches on.... and not at all uncommon... |
| 01:01.01 | Cairenn | ... lol |
| 01:01.30 | plaw | or as some wag called it 'neROOphilia'.... |
| 01:01.39 | plaw | and for repeating that... |
| 01:01.40 | Cairenn | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:01.42 | plaw | gets his coat |
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| 02:54.17 | Amarande | LOL @ Ars Technica drawing/comment ... http://i.imgur.com/7pOwI.jpg |
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| 04:54.15 | Amarande | really? most likely one winning ticket, from cali? *sigh* that's exactly what I hate seeing about big powerball jackpots |
| 04:54.20 | Amarande | it always seems like it ends up in friggin california |
| 04:57.13 | Amarande | or if not there, somewhere like Michigan or Florida |
| 04:57.36 | mckenziemc | noob |
| 04:57.38 | Amarande | super rarely in the Northeast, not even New York ... and when it does happen in Connecticut it's some rich investment banker in Greenwich who shouldn't really need more money anyway :P |
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| 05:06.19 | mckenziemc | dammit fewyn |
| 05:06.41 | mckenziemc | i finally had my bed leveled, then i had to undo it for inspection because of a short circuit o.o |
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| 05:12.26 | Trela | Doot doot, computer building is fun. :D |
| 05:12.50 | mckenziemc | well, 3d printer |
| 05:13.01 | mckenziemc | but regardless, hot PCB doesn't smell good |
| 05:13.16 | mckenziemc | and it's too cold to open windows :-/ |
| 05:14.31 | Trela | Oh... OH. I thought you were talking your bed. That you sleep in. |
| 05:15.59 | mckenziemc | i don't exactly need that bed leveled to use o.o |
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| 05:19.41 | Amarande | yeah, you only have to worry about that kind of bed being leveled if you're that idiot in the Darwin Awards |
| 05:19.56 | Amarande | who ... apparently on a hot night tried to sleep on a slanted roof ... |
| 05:20.55 | Trela | I have slept on a roof before... |
| 05:21.11 | Amarande | Trela: we're talking a typical classical slanted house roof, LOL |
| 05:21.24 | Trela | :P |
| 05:21.37 | Trela | This was a garage roof. Felt great in the summer. |
| 05:23.12 | kullervo | I've slept -everywhere- |
| 05:23.36 | mckenziemc | idk Amarande, this could've ended pretty poorly |
| 05:23.49 | mckenziemc | my "heat speader" apparently decided to short the board after all |
| 05:24.01 | Amarande | ouch |
| 05:25.35 | mckenziemc | pizza pan cutout taped to the top of an MK2B - i had the power wires taped separately but there's a spot of char where the jagged edge was held against a trace D: |
| 05:25.56 | kullervo | standing position in full combat gear. Probably the noteworthiest... |
| 05:27.58 | Trela | Falling standing up and waking up later still standing is awesome.(Besides the obvious sleep deprivation in the first place part.) |
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| 06:15.54 | mckenziemc | fewyn: do you use painter's tape for PLA prints? |
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| 09:24.41 | VIad | it's 10:24 |
| 09:25.03 | VIad | it's 2^10 |
| 09:25.14 | mckenziemc | no it isn't |
| 09:25.24 | VIad | it was |
| 09:25.31 | mckenziemc | % print(math.floor(1024/60)) |
| 09:25.31 | yalb | mckenziemc: 17 |
| 09:26.20 | VIad | that's not how you maths |
| 09:26.51 | mckenziemc | converts VIad to binary-coded decimal |
| 09:30.46 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 09:30.46 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 6.2.x ToC: 60200 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl || Happy New Year! |
| 09:31.30 | mckenziemc | ~botsnack |
| 09:31.30 | purl | aw, gee, mckenziemc |
| 09:31.58 | mckenziemc | purl rhymes sometimes :o |
| 09:35.40 | VIad | % print(math.floor(2^15.906890595608518529324058373437206684624645800717061/60)) |
| 09:35.41 | yalb | VIad: 1023 |
| 09:35.49 | VIad | maybe I should ceil that one :p |
| 09:35.57 | VIad | % print(math.ceil(2^15.906890595608518529324058373437206684624645800717061/60)) |
| 09:35.57 | yalb | VIad: 1024 |
| 09:36.01 | VIad | \o& |
| 09:36.06 | VIad | tentacle arm, noo |
| 09:36.16 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 09:37.06 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 09:37.16 | VIad | wanted to find something that was 2^# that was 61440 so your math works |
| 09:37.36 | VIad | but log(61440)/log(2) produces a long number and wasnt pretty |
| 09:37.47 | mckenziemc | so, the base 2 logarithm |
| 09:38.26 | VIad | % print(2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2))) |
| 09:38.27 | yalb | VIad: 61440 |
| 09:38.29 | mckenziemc | and 15.906890595608518529324058373437206684624645800717061 isn't a long number? |
| 09:38.44 | VIad | a digit rich number |
| 09:38.53 | VIad | % print(math.floor(2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)))) |
| 09:38.53 | yalb | VIad: 61439 |
| 09:39.07 | VIad | interesting |
| 09:39.20 | VIad | yalb will without math.floor just spit out 61440 |
| 09:39.26 | VIad | but if you floor it goes down to 61439 :P |
| 09:39.35 | mckenziemc | % print(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) |
| 09:39.35 | yalb | mckenziemc: 15.906890595609 |
| 09:39.39 | mckenziemc | it's probably called rounding |
| 09:39.52 | VIad | but why did it do that without me asking it? |
| 09:40.08 | VIad | oh wait |
| 09:40.48 | VIad | % local a, b = 2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) b = math.floor(a) print(a, b) |
| 09:40.48 | yalb | VIad: 61440 61439 |
| 09:41.10 | VIad | must be yalb related, never experienced lua rounding for me without my request :p |
| 09:41.55 | VIad | nop it actually does that, hmm |
| 09:42.19 | mckenziemc | heats VIad's bed to 60C. |
| 09:42.23 | VIad | :D |
| 09:43.04 | VIad | it must be just how lua handles floats |
| 09:43.38 | VIad | looks weird when you get a integer like 61440 but if you floor it it becomes 61439 |
| 09:44.13 | VIad | it's probably 61440.00... too many zeroes and it just "fuck this" and we seemingly get a whole integer back |
| 09:44.29 | VIad | since we did power by a digit with many decimals |
| 09:44.38 | stolenlegacy | lua cuts of zeroes at the end |
| 09:44.46 | stolenlegacy | cuts off* |
| 09:44.54 | VIad | apparently it does |
| 09:44.58 | stolenlegacy | so it rounds to, idk, 10 digits or whatever for display |
| 09:45.00 | VIad | actually never encountered this before |
| 09:45.01 | stolenlegacy | and _then_ it cuts off zeroes |
| 09:45.28 | VIad | so its a print behavior? |
| 09:45.30 | stolenlegacy | so if the actual value is 61439.999999999999999999... |
| 09:45.43 | stolenlegacy | it rounds to 10 digits, which is 61440.0000000000000000000 |
| 09:45.47 | stolenlegacy | then cuts off zeroes and displays 61440 |
| 09:45.56 | mckenziemc | which isn't really rounding :D |
| 09:46.25 | stolenlegacy | if you round 61439.99999999999999999999 to 10 digits you get 61440 |
| 09:46.46 | mckenziemc | .9 repeating *is* 1.0 |
| 09:46.51 | stolenlegacy | it isn't repeating |
| 09:47.02 | stolenlegacy | % local a=2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) print(61440-a) |
| 09:47.02 | yalb | stolenlegacy: 2.9103830456734e-11 |
| 09:47.04 | mckenziemc | well |
| 09:47.06 | stolenlegacy | there you go |
| 09:47.26 | mckenziemc | 1 that's by definition, 2, i was teasing about what you typed |
| 09:47.56 | VIad | I hope it would only try to round this when using print() |
| 09:48.11 | VIad | it would be silly if it would export 61440 if you for instance wrote to a file |
| 09:48.11 | stolenlegacy | it obviously does |
| 09:48.35 | stolenlegacy | it stores the exact (well, to whatever precision the underlying type can store) value, or it would've given 0 for me |
| 09:49.49 | mckenziemc | most likely just follows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_floating_point specifications internally |
| 09:52.20 | VIad | actually writing to a file keeps the display value as seen when print()ing |
| 09:52.37 | VIad | if you just io.write that is, might be a smarter way to do this if you need precision |
| 09:52.50 | mckenziemc | like string.format? |
| 09:53.18 | VIad | it outputs 61440.000000 |
| 09:53.23 | VIad | not enough precision! |
| 09:53.29 | VIad | we need to bring the big guns |
| 09:53.40 | mckenziemc | and point them at VIad |
| 09:55.00 | VIad | best I got was with %.99f actually |
| 09:55.08 | mckenziemc | o.O |
| 09:55.22 | VIad | though for our case its "only" 61439.999999999971 |
| 09:55.30 | VIad | so can cut off a lot of zeroes |
| 09:56.00 | VIad | personally I think I'd prefer it just showing me that instead of rounding for me, but I guess I just havent worked enough with floats to get used to their behavior |
| 09:56.04 | nevcairiel | sounds like neither of you guys ever worked with floating point values before =p |
| 09:57.16 | VIad | :D |
| 09:59.11 | stolenlegacy | i don't think lua standard actually says what underlying data value has to be used by implementations for numbers? |
| 09:59.22 | stolenlegacy | so it could be double, it could be float, it could be some arbitrary precision value |
| 09:59.40 | nevcairiel | "The number type represents real (double-precision floating-point) numbers." |
| 09:59.41 | nevcairiel | from PiL |
| 09:59.46 | stolenlegacy | well, i stand corrected then |
| 10:00.22 | mckenziemc | i sit in need of sleep |
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| 10:06.49 | Maldivia | % local a=2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) print(("%0.16f"):format(a)) |
| 10:06.49 | yalb | Maldivia: 61439.9999999999708962 |
| 10:08.52 | stolenlegacy | % local a=2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) print(("%0.17g"):format(a)) |
| 10:08.52 | yalb | stolenlegacy: 61439.999999999971 |
| 10:09.05 | stolenlegacy | gives you equivalence of re-conversion |
| 10:10.05 | stolenlegacy | % local a=2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) local b=tonumber(("%0.17g"):format(a)) print(a==b) |
| 10:10.05 | yalb | stolenlegacy: true |
| 10:10.21 | stolenlegacy | so if you dump to file for later re-reading, that is what you'd use |
| 10:15.01 | stolenlegacy | if you want to output the decimal value of your double for some reason |
| 10:15.03 | stolenlegacy | something like this |
| 10:15.21 | stolenlegacy | % local function printfull(a) io.write(math.floor(a),".") a=a%1 while a ~= 0 do a=a*10 io.write(math.floor(a)) a=a%1 end io.write("\n") end printfull(2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2)) |
| 10:15.22 | yalb | stolenlegacy: sandbox:2: ')' expected (to close '(' at line 1) near <eof> |
| 10:15.27 | stolenlegacy | % local function printfull(a) io.write(math.floor(a),".") a=a%1 while a ~= 0 do a=a*10 io.write(math.floor(a)) a=a%1 end io.write("\n") end printfull(2^(math.log(61440)/math.log(2))) |
| 10:15.27 | yalb | stolenlegacy: 61439.99999999997089616954326629638671875 |
| 10:15.58 | nevcairiel | thats just noise, there is no precision anymore =p |
| 10:17.09 | nevcairiel | double has 15 to 17 digits of precision, that cuts out where the 9's end |
| 10:25.04 | mckenziemc | precisely, nevcairiel |
| 10:25.08 | mckenziemc | hides. |
| 10:25.25 | VIad | sorry for starting a war |
| 11:04.37 | Fisker | exceedingly hugs Cairenn |
| 11:17.58 | stolenlegacy | yes nevcairiel |
| 11:18.30 | stolenlegacy | but if you want the actual decimal representation of your binary data because you are trying to understand doubles vOv |
| 11:18.50 | stolenlegacy | i agree that it's pointless in 99% of cases, %0.17g guarantees that double -> string -> double is lossless |
| 11:33.46 | nevcairiel | by actually modifying the number, you probably cause more data to be generated than actually was there in the first place |
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| 13:42.13 | Fisker | hugtackles Lopeppeppy |
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| 17:19.39 | VIad | http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/398157-new-logging-feature-combatant-info/ |
| 17:19.56 | VIad | seems we like logging now :d |
| 17:32.07 | Ressy | oh geez. |
| 17:32.25 | Ressy | More spam/lag at the beginnign of a fight. lol |
| 17:33.05 | nevcairiel | its only advanced logging, which means only log file and only if turned on |
| 17:33.59 | Amarande | nevcairiel: kinda going to put a dent in damage meter usage I suppose, if it causes enough lag for raid leaders to notice sluggishness at the beginning of the fight |
| 17:34.05 | Amarande | then again, who really cares |
| 17:34.25 | Amarande | we could stand to have a little less damage meter usage anyway, far too much infestation of meter maids in wow :p |
| 17:34.55 | nevcairiel | again, its only advanced logging, which means addons wont e ven see it |
| 17:35.02 | nevcairiel | since its information addons could retrieve anyway |
| 17:35.28 | Amarande | ah. yeah, I had thought advanced logging was what log parsing addons like the meters used |
| 17:36.09 | nevcairiel | no its for the written combat log and things like warcraftlogs.com |
| 17:36.11 | Ressy | but nayone doing logging for a guild run, will be inundated with 25 lines like that, |
| 17:36.20 | Ressy | which would result in a lag at the beginning of a fight |
| 17:37.29 | nevcairiel | advanced c ombat log is already spammy as hell, if your system can't take it, pawn of the job to someone else |
| 17:37.35 | Ressy | lol |
| 17:37.54 | nevcairiel | seriously, not wanting features because it might lag you is a bad reason =p |
| 17:45.10 | mckenziemc | i wouldn't mind if Amarande lagged at the beginning of every fight |
| 17:45.38 | VIad | nevcairiel: why dont they use the ram more to buffer? |
| 17:45.46 | Ressy | snickers |
| 17:45.54 | VIad | like if you got 32gb of ram, plenty to use for the log, and write to the drive when the fight is over |
| 17:46.25 | VIad | seems more demanding if it must write as soon as possible, as it feels like doing atm |
| 17:46.30 | nevcairiel | VIad: they could, but writing doesnt exactly cause lag |
| 17:46.36 | nevcairiel | and the combatlog is buffered |
| 17:46.40 | nevcairiel | just not gbyte worth |
| 17:47.13 | nevcairiel | gathering the extra information for the advanced combat log is what actually causes a bit of performance degredation, which is why the advanced logging option specifically warns |
| 17:47.32 | nevcairiel | not sure it would really lag due to writing max 30 new events for all actors in the raid |
| 17:47.37 | VIad | even if you log normally sites like warcraftlogs wont accept your log :( |
| 17:47.54 | Stanzilla | not true |
| 17:48.55 | mckenziemc | he started it |
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| 17:53.56 | Amarande | mckenziemc: you wouldn't mind if an actually competent DPS lagged at the beginning of every fight? |
| 17:54.09 | Amarande | hell, it's bad enough that when I play as a mage I feel useless enough on trash as it is |
| 17:57.53 | jleclanche | there was a hotfix recently that made the legendary ring upgradeable right? how? |
| 17:59.58 | Semlar | other than the upgrade token from killing archimonde? |
| 18:01.19 | Semlar | it looks like you can buy crystallized fel for 1250 valor in tanaan |
| 18:02.48 | jleclanche | yeah found it |
| 18:02.57 | jleclanche | christ 25k valor |
| 18:03.10 | jleclanche | because why not make it a grind |
| 18:03.40 | mckenziemc | you could always grind real hobbies |
| 18:03.45 | mckenziemc | like trolling wowuidev |
| 18:03.46 | nevcairiel | it always was a grind, one a week by killing archminonde |
| 18:03.58 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: yeah somehow it was worse |
| 18:04.25 | Semlar | the only reason you could upgrade the ring in the first place was to give people a reason to continue killing archimonde |
| 18:04.31 | nevcairiel | but you only really need it when you raid anyway, and when you raid you shouldnt have a big problem to kill archimonde |
| 18:04.45 | nevcairiel | so.. this new way is just a catchup bonus |
| 18:04.47 | Amarande | jleclanche: not to mention a grind where you have to actually buy as you go |
| 18:05.03 | Amarande | otherwise you'll cap out :) |
| 18:05.16 | Amarande | which is come to think of it what I hated the most about the beginning of MOP |
| 18:05.23 | nevcairiel | you cant cap out in one week, so you can just buy after done with everything |
| 18:05.52 | jleclanche | "technically" i guess you can do it in 5 weeks valor only |
| 18:05.55 | Amarande | IIRC, you inevitably wasted fairly significant amounts of valuable valor because it took 2 weeks before you could buy anything good with it |
| 18:06.03 | jleclanche | but that's pretty bs, 8 mythics + weekly is 2900 valor |
| 18:06.07 | Amarande | meanwhile, especially with the quests themselves giving valor ... :( |
| 18:06.53 | Semlar | i'm surprised you can even upgrade it more than once a week |
| 18:08.05 | Semlar | but i guess they want people to be able to gear up alts or new characters |
| 18:14.00 | nevcairiel | yeah its primarily catchup i suppose |
| 18:16.11 | Amarande | Semlar: yeah, it's good that they're finally getting better at that |
| 18:16.24 | Amarande | some expansions I actually felt like Blizzard was actively discouraging the use of alts |
| 18:16.59 | Amarande | of course nowadays it would be a really, really dumb thing for them to ever do so again, if they ever actually did and it wasn't just coincidental |
| 18:17.10 | Mr_Rabies | WoD is pretty anti-alt in general |
| 18:17.20 | Mr_Rabies | having to pay 5000g per alt to do tanaan jungle |
| 18:17.31 | Amarande | alts are money, especially with impatient players willing to spend $60 to jump straight to level 90 |
| 18:17.54 | Amarande | and if there's one thing Bobby Kotick loves ... heh |
| 18:18.48 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: 5000g is getting to be pocket change lately, alas |
| 18:19.53 | Amarande | yeah, I remember when 5000g was a lot of gold, hell, I remember that infamous Craigslist posting where a woman offered herself for 5000g (think it even went something like "mount me for an epic mount" heh ... actually, from what I read on later articles she apparently got a longer term BF out of it so I guess that one actually had a good ending) |
| 18:20.09 | Amarande | but nowadays, yeah, 5000g is just "do your dailies and you'll be there before you know it" |
| 18:21.26 | Mr_Rabies | still, it's a significant sum and making each alt basically pay for itself is a total pain in the ass |
| 18:22.00 | Amarande | yeah, it actually kind of impairs the whole level 90 for cash thing when one thinks about it |
| 18:22.02 | Mr_Rabies | so i just have a ton of alts with level 2 garrisons that can't do the tanaan dailies |
| 18:22.43 | Amarande | if you level up normally, you'll have that money easily, especially if you didn't waste money on anything more than basic and continental flying (which you wouldn't have in early WoD, because there was no indication it would be anything but a waste of 10000g) |
| 18:23.07 | Amarande | though I guess the kind of people who pay $60 to jump to 90 aren't averse to spending an extra $20 to sell a token to finance that character |
| 18:24.03 | Amarande | but yeah, leveling normally you get plenty of gold ... when I last stopped, my character (started from scratch on a server where I had no presence) was level 84 and already had something over 14k, and that was despite the fact that I was also leveling blacksmithing the traditional way (I did have mining and did sell some mats though) |
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| 18:31.08 | Mr_Rabies | yeah but still, that's a significant chunk of a month's subscription |
| 18:31.54 | Mr_Rabies | i'd rather save my money and use it to keep playing the game, and they really cut off garrison gold rewards pretty hard shortly after adding the token |
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| 18:34.27 | nevcairiel | you can still get plenty gold from garrisons |
| 18:34.35 | nevcairiel | more than enough to pay the token |
| 18:35.17 | Mr_Rabies | definitely, but they really cut them hard, especially for alts |
| 18:35.33 | nevcairiel | it was just way too much |
| 18:35.33 | Mr_Rabies | you now get a shared pool of gold missions between all your alts |
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| 18:36.02 | Mr_Rabies | so having alts doesn't really help, and in fact is more annoying because you have to check them often too |
| 18:37.38 | *** join/#wowuidev PhatsoTGT (~PhatsoTGT@unaffiliated/phatsotgt) |
| 18:38.11 | Amarande | makes me wonder ... has there been a significant impact on the auction house economy lately because people want to save their gold to play for free? |
| 18:40.22 | Mr_Rabies | definitely, but honestly |
| 18:40.33 | Mr_Rabies | WoD has made the AH all but vestigial other than a few select items, anyway |
| 18:42.12 | Mr_Rabies | between almost killing the AH and making gold really easy to acquire early in the expansion, they basically made the game really easy to play for free since gold was really only useful for buying game time |
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| 18:43.00 | Mr_Rabies | so they started subtly adding more and more gold sinks and slowly reduced the gold rewards |
| 18:43.32 | Mr_Rabies | it's still not bad but you definitely have to play a lot to get enough gold to pay for a sub |
| 18:43.54 | *** join/#wowuidev PhatsoTGT (~PhatsoTGT@unaffiliated/phatsotgt) |
| 18:43.54 | Mr_Rabies | especially in regions where the token is more than the 35k it is in the NA region |
| 18:44.38 | *** join/#wowuidev PhatsoTGT (~PhatsoTGT@unaffiliated/phatsotgt) |
| 18:44.51 | Mr_Rabies | i mean i guess people aren't -really- playing for free, and they're essentially buying a month's of time with $20 of someone else's money, instead of $15 of their own |
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| 18:48.03 | Mr_Rabies | i think their big mistake was getting everyone used to the insane inflated economy of early WoD for so long, and trying to put the blanket back into the zipper bag it came in |
| 18:50.10 | nevcairiel | the mistake was throwing free crafting resources at everyone |
| 18:50.22 | nevcairiel | big part of the economy dead right there |
| 18:50.41 | Amarande | nevcairiel: unless that's working as intended :( |
| 18:50.45 | nevcairiel | i have not once bothered to fish other than for skilling up, or buy food on the AH |
| 18:50.54 | Amarande | given the fact that there seems to be a steady trend towards gutting the social aspect of the game, I wouldn't be surprised. :( |
| 18:51.03 | nevcairiel | Amarande: they already said it was overly rewarding |
| 18:51.26 | nevcairiel | and with all the changes coming to gathering professions in legion, i doubt there will be anything like that again |
| 18:51.37 | Amarande | yeah, maybe they're finally realising that that's what they did to wow this expansion |
| 18:52.07 | Mr_Rabies | <nevcairiel> the mistake was throwing free crafting resources at everyone |
| 18:52.08 | Amarande | WoD gives barely any point to interacting with other players socially, unless you plan to raid above the LFR tier |
| 18:52.21 | Mr_Rabies | i think this highlights the problem that people really just -hate- the gathering methods in wow by now |
| 18:52.41 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: and they took too many steps at once |
| 18:52.42 | nevcairiel | how is that, they just didnt have any need to do them |
| 18:52.57 | nevcairiel | i never did mind gathering herbs or ore, it was ok |
| 18:53.00 | Amarande | I think just removing hard minimum skills was enough to remove any annoying points for me gathering wise, personally |
| 18:53.05 | Mr_Rabies | they did if they wanted to make more stuff than the garrison provided |
| 18:53.18 | nevcairiel | which with the trading post was not really a thing |
| 18:53.22 | nevcairiel | especially if you had alts |
| 18:53.23 | Mr_Rabies | but people would rather wait another day than use the nodes in the wild |
| 18:53.28 | nevcairiel | because GR production was not nerfed :p |
| 18:53.39 | Amarande | (especially for herbs, because of the often large differences in required skill between different herbs in the same zones) |
| 18:53.42 | Mr_Rabies | GR production was nerfed a bit, i believe, yeah? |
| 18:53.49 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 18:53.53 | Mr_Rabies | GR rewards from missions |
| 18:54.10 | Amarande | btw, did they ever fix the rich thorium vein bug? |
| 18:54.23 | nevcairiel | they reworked it a bit by changing the bonus on followers and the mission rewards, but overall it remained still pretty high |
| 18:54.37 | Amarande | last time I was playing, in early WoD, I noticed that rich thorium veins do not give skill ups, at all |
| 18:54.41 | nevcairiel | I often find myself being GR capped on multiple characters with nothing to buy |
| 18:54.48 | Amarande | every other node works just as you'd expect from the colour coding |
| 18:54.50 | nevcairiel | well nothing I would need right now |
| 18:55.16 | Mr_Rabies | i'm never capped anymore but i'm usually hovering around 8000 |
| 18:55.30 | Amarande | I never did get around to the garrison |
| 18:55.33 | Mr_Rabies | then again i barely play anymore, all the content other than raiding is so boring now |
| 18:55.35 | Amarande | got to level 84 on my new character for WoD |
| 18:55.50 | Mr_Rabies | and even raiding is getting boring |
| 18:55.59 | Amarande | then I decided to try to use my TV as my one screen for everything |
| 18:56.07 | Amarande | and found out just how horribly wow plays in 720p :( |
| 18:56.16 | Mr_Rabies | things are gonna get reaaaaaaaal bad if 7.0 doesn't ship soon |
| 18:56.30 | Mr_Rabies | huh, it played fine for me in 720p, Amarande |
| 18:56.38 | Amarande | went on hiatus, and lately the family's been getting ready to move, so I also switched from my old Vishera tower to a laptop (also 1366x768) |
| 18:56.41 | Mr_Rabies | i was stuck using a tv as a monitor a few weeks ago when my monitor went out |
| 18:56.45 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: well, graphical elements looked nice enough |
| 18:56.51 | Amarande | but text elements made my eyes want to bleed, same in D3 |
| 18:56.52 | nevcairiel | Mr_Rabies: 7.0 will come when it always comes, 4-6 weeks before expension |
| 18:56.56 | Mr_Rabies | it was nice having such an insanely high framerate |
| 18:57.07 | Mr_Rabies | i imagine so, nevcairiel |
| 18:57.09 | Mr_Rabies | but still |
| 18:57.28 | Amarande | and I definitely couldn't use the UI setup I was used to because not enough pixel real estate for everything without making text even more horrible |
| 18:57.35 | Mr_Rabies | a bunch of these folks won't ever come back, and the longer legion takes, the more will never return |
| 18:57.56 | Amarande | yeah I'm on the fence between going back to WoW, FFXIV, SW:TOR, or LOTRO |
| 18:58.07 | nevcairiel | swtor and lotro both are crap |
| 18:58.07 | Amarande | I miss MMOing, but not sure which game to return to |
| 18:58.13 | PhatsoTGT | we know wow. they come back. it only matters how long they come back |
| 18:58.23 | Amarande | nevcairiel: SW:TOR's gotten pretty good of late |
| 18:58.36 | Amarande | LOTRO wasn't too bad last time I played except for the damned memory leak |
| 18:58.37 | Mr_Rabies | this expansion has been just a few bars above a waste of money and the longer it goes on the more money people are gonna be spending on nothing |
| 18:58.49 | Amarande | you can't play more than a few hours without the client crashing, ever since they introduced the graphics upgrade with rohan it seems |
| 18:59.00 | Mr_Rabies | and that'll be what wow was for them: a waste of money |
| 18:59.14 | Amarande | but it does have probably the second most beautiful graphics in the MMO world right now (FFXIV is peerless in that regard) |
| 18:59.38 | PhatsoTGT | QuakeNet#mmo-champion is where you want to go guys |
| 18:59.58 | nevcairiel | people always say its a waste of money, but what else do you really get for $15 a month these days, if you play only 2 hours a month you already got your moneys worth |
| 19:00.09 | Amarande | only thing that bugs me about SW:TOR is that the "getting ready to raid" grind is pretty much at the edge of bearability |
| 19:00.58 | Amarande | (especially in shadow of revan which had basically BC-hard hardmode dungeons) |
| 19:01.44 | Amarande | ok, not just shadow of revan, it was a pain in hutt cartel too, but that was mostly because hutt cartel endgame was unbelievably boring (this is probably where you're getting your judgment of SW:TOR from I'm guessing?) |
| 19:02.27 | Amarande | nevcairiel: yeah, MMO subs are perhaps the one thing that hasn't really been subject to inflation at all |
| 19:03.13 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really like FFXIV's graphics, tbh, Amarande |
| 19:03.30 | Mr_Rabies | i think wow looks better even if i know it's technically less advanced |
| 19:03.36 | Mr_Rabies | it's got a much more solid art design |
| 19:04.50 | Amarande | the main things that frustrated me about FFXIV were the difficulty of playing catchup at the extreme tier, housing costs (these two are actually fairly strongly related), and the fact that the game seemed to heavily hate casters in the endgame |
| 19:04.55 | Amarande | (and I was maining BLM, soo ...) |
| 19:05.45 | Mr_Rabies | FFXIV graphically looks like a lower-res dark souls with a more generic art design |
| 19:06.38 | Amarande | trouble was if you hadn't gotten into the game early enough to hit each EX primal as it was current, getting a group to down it (as FFXIV still has mandatory progression) is like pulling teeth |
| 19:06.43 | Mr_Rabies | wow's art team is uncontested as far as having a consistent, unique "look" |
| 19:07.06 | Amarande | ties into housing because houses cost *so* much and charging 7-figures gil for a run through a primal is about one of the only ways people find to afford them |
| 19:07.06 | Mr_Rabies | even if you know the engine is buckling under the weight of all the stuff they've strapped into it |
| 19:07.48 | Amarande | FFXIV's crafting system is a lot less profitable than you'd think, for different reasons than WoW's |
| 19:08.24 | Amarande | huh, Eorzea seemed to be pretty consistent in its appearances in each region |
| 19:08.30 | pompy1 | https://youtu.be/2B2E9TT9X9A WTB |
| 19:09.18 | Amarande | the trouble in WoW is that crafted items are just not worth that much because raid gear is virtually always better |
| 19:09.50 | Amarande | the trouble in FFXIV is that crafted items are indeed massively valuable, but, partly *because* of that, virtually your only viable market is other people who can also craft the same thing |
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| 19:24.52 | pompy | https://youtu.be/Y05nnIISRjc?t=2m15s |
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| 19:34.25 | Semlar | who's responsible when a self driving car kills someone |
| 19:34.53 | mckenziemc | you |
| 19:35.14 | foxlit | likely the one killed. |
| 19:35.37 | zenzelezz | in typical legislation, it'd fall back on the owner of the vehicle |
| 19:37.41 | mckenziemc | typical legislation wasn't designed with autonomous cars in mind |
| 19:38.55 | zenzelezz | cars weren't designed with automation in mind |
| 19:39.04 | zenzelezz | everything sucks legally at first |
| 19:39.06 | zenzelezz | then people wise up |
| 19:39.16 | zenzelezz | and then politicians get involved, and everything goes downhill |
| 19:39.37 | VIad | let's hope no politicians get involved in the development of legion |
| 19:40.58 | mckenziemc | i'm sure there aren't already general practices in use for potentially dangerous machinery that could be used as a model |
| 19:41.30 | Mr_Rabies | FOLLOW ME, VARIAN WRYNN, AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE AZEROTH GREAT AGAIN |
| 19:41.39 | Mr_Rabies | WE'RE GONNA BUILD A WALL AROUND THE LOST ISLES AND MAKE THE LEGION PAY FOR IT |
| 19:41.54 | pompy | wtf |
| 19:42.01 | Semlar | tries to calm mr_rabies down |
| 19:42.28 | VIad | I support trump with his comments because I feel threatened by the gargoyles flying in the sky. we need to build a dome and make us safe. |
| 19:52.21 | VIad | hmm, wonder what blizz does to premade groups in legion |
| 19:52.29 | VIad | I hope for a more flexible search system |
| 19:53.03 | VIad | people kind of use "custom" for stuff they cba to classify as legacy raids and such. would be nice if some filters were added, also regarding filters, hope for better UI for the AH :P |
| 19:53.17 | VIad | browsing can get a bit difficult sometimes, wish for more built in flexibility! |
| 19:55.47 | PhatsoTGT | they should outsource the UI to the community. like a git repo and they pull aka final implementing decision |
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| 19:55.53 | PhatsoTGT | that would get so much stuff done |
| 19:56.32 | mckenziemc | maybe on paper |
| 19:58.04 | VIad | hmmm |
| 19:58.13 | VIad | not bad, I mean its how linux kernel work usually occurs |
| 19:58.31 | mckenziemc | which is a bit different than a game UI |
| 19:58.47 | VIad | ofc, but blizz default ui provides us with what we need to know to work with and make better stuff |
| 19:58.58 | VIad | and provides guidance what kind of style we should keep in line with |
| 19:59.22 | Mr_Rabies | there are addons that add filters already |
| 19:59.29 | foxlit | nothing is stopping you from re-writing whatever it is you want to re-write and submitting your "pull request" through the forums/email/whatever. |
| 19:59.52 | Mr_Rabies | http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/premade-filter for example |
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| 20:00.34 | VIad | Mr_Rabies: using it, better than nothing |
| 20:00.35 | PhatsoTGT | foxlit and it never gets live |
| 20:00.51 | fewyn | mckenziemc: i use aquanet hairspray |
| 20:00.53 | fewyn | for everything |
| 20:00.53 | VIad | but still have to do my search by clicking on one of 5 categories, searching, then going back and searching again |
| 20:01.01 | foxlit | That's not strictly true. |
| 20:01.07 | PhatsoTGT | one example |
| 20:01.10 | foxlit | I've had patches land. |
| 20:01.31 | foxlit | The entire securehandlers runaround is contributed by Iriel |
| 20:01.35 | foxlit | (and alestane) |
| 20:01.48 | mckenziemc | i'm not sure i like the idea of heating hairspray |
| 20:02.06 | PhatsoTGT | the internet supports this nuance ^^ |
| 20:02.11 | foxlit | Combat log still credits AlexanderYoshi and Xinhuan. |
| 20:02.28 | Xinhuan | hi! |
| 20:02.56 | VIad | oh looking forward to this year beta |
| 20:03.12 | mckenziemc | PhatsoTGT: nuance? |
| 20:03.13 | VIad | sorry I keep forgetting his name, but he comes around and hangs here getting some feedback regarding UI stuff :D |
| 20:03.27 | Xinhuan | i think you meant Antiarc, not alexanderyoshi |
| 20:05.39 | foxlit | maybe. I'm not sure how the names map that far back. |
| 20:06.07 | foxlit | https://www.townlong-yak.com/framexml/20726/Blizzard_CombatLog/Blizzard_CombatLog.lua#3 it's a name in the source and it matches a wiki account, so I went with that alias. |
| 20:07.33 | PhatsoTGT | blizz really needs to offer a slick API with legion. cant wait to hook my Timers to that Resource Bar |
| 20:09.15 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:11.04 | PhatsoTGT | thats cool and all but not really what i meant |
| 20:11.13 | PhatsoTGT | i can do that in WA no problem |
| 20:11.27 | PhatsoTGT | but the blizz resource bar for legion is different |
| 20:11.46 | PhatsoTGT | its responsive to your UI/Camera Angle |
| 20:11.50 | znf | I can't wait to see what Semlar comes up with! |
| 20:11.53 | znf | with plates! |
| 20:12.01 | PhatsoTGT | and its native |
| 20:12.55 | foxlit | "its responsive to your UI/Camera Angle" << I always wanted to chase HUD elements around the screen! |
| 20:13.21 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 20:13.21 | PhatsoTGT | "dont like what i dont like" |
| 20:13.35 | Semlar | none of the footage i've seen of legion indicated that the player's bar was anywhere except a fixed position in the middle of the screen |
| 20:15.05 | PhatsoTGT | https://youtu.be/QMmkO5wMqUs?t=350 watch |
| 20:16.35 | PhatsoTGT | should've read toms diff |
| 20:16.36 | PhatsoTGT | http://paste2.org/p02kj199 |
| 20:16.39 | Semlar | this guy does a remarkable job of not moving his camera |
| 20:16.50 | PhatsoTGT | but you see it right? |
| 20:16.53 | Semlar | no |
| 20:17.22 | PhatsoTGT | literally right in the 20 seconds after the point i linked it bounces up and down a little |
| 20:17.37 | Semlar | it moved down but it wasn't in response to the camera angle |
| 20:18.22 | PhatsoTGT | well it is and +GetUICameraInfo and +Model_ApplyUICamera are there for a reason |
| 20:19.09 | Neffi | ApplyUICamera? |
| 20:19.24 | Neffi | I don't understand what that does based on the name |
| 20:19.48 | PhatsoTGT | it practically prevents your resource bar from moving above your character |
| 20:20.03 | Neffi | I'm confused but OK |
| 20:20.09 | PhatsoTGT | so you're always able to see your foot hit the floor |
| 20:20.28 | Neffi | maybe this has something to do with some features that have been added in the past year |
| 20:20.31 | PhatsoTGT | neffi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMmkO5wMqUs&feature=youtu.be&t=350 focus closely on the resource in the middle |
| 20:20.43 | PhatsoTGT | yes we're talking about legion |
| 20:20.52 | Neffi | oh ok |
| 20:21.47 | PhatsoTGT | and people here either deny that the bar moves or say "responsive UI elements... lame anyways" |
| 20:22.07 | Semlar | it keeps the bar locked below your character |
| 20:22.27 | Semlar | but there is a difference between that and getting the camera angle |
| 20:22.31 | PhatsoTGT | aka it responds to your camera angle |
| 20:22.34 | Semlar | no |
| 20:23.10 | Semlar | i mean yes, in the sense that moving the camera can change where your model is positioned, but it's not the same as your actual camera angle |
| 20:23.39 | PhatsoTGT | dude the function is literally called getUICameraInfo. give me a break |
| 20:25.28 | PhatsoTGT | you even commented in the thread tom posted the global diffs where this was added |
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| 20:27.03 | Semlar | it moves up when they jump, despite the fact that the camera hasn't changed angles |
| 20:27.14 | Semlar | it's tied to your character's model |
| 20:30.24 | Semlar | might be based on the zoom though since the camera was up against a wall |
| 20:42.00 | foxlit | in legion, the player has a nameplate |
| 20:42.00 | foxlit | the resource bar is anchored to that nameplate. |
| 20:42.00 | foxlit | I don't think your camera function does what you think it does. |
