| 00:02.59 | CMDRTaco | Is there a way in Lua to have a dynamic variable name? i.e I have var1, var2, var3... and I want to perform a check in a loop. "var..i"? |
| 00:04.07 | tz | table["var"..i] |
| 00:04.30 | tz | assuming that table had populated entries |
| 00:06.10 | CMDRTaco | It's not a table, It's a list of variables. |
| 00:06.28 | Neffi | _G |
| 00:06.34 | Neffi | are they your variables? |
| 00:06.40 | CMDRTaco | yes |
| 00:06.47 | Neffi | then make a table |
| 00:07.11 | Neffi | If you're asking this question, it's abundantly likely that you actually want a table and don't realize it |
| 00:07.41 | Neffi | But if you actually do need to programmatically access global variables, the variable called _G points to the global environment, which is a table too |
| 00:08.02 | Neffi | % myGlobal1 = "foo"; print( _G["myGlobal" .. 1] ) -- like so |
| 00:08.12 | Neffi | yalb? |
| 00:09.06 | *** join/#wowuidev yalb (xsbot@unaffiliated/mniip/bot/xsbot) |
| 00:09.21 | Neffi | Programmatically accessing _local_ variables is a bit trickier, but if you need to do that, it's almost _certain_ you actually want a table, unless you're doing debugging |
| 00:09.30 | Neffi | % myGlobal1 = "foo"; print( _G["myGlobal" .. 1] ) -- here we go |
| 00:09.30 | yalb | Neffi: STUB(dev=0801): device did not change |
| 00:09.40 | Neffi | wat |
| 00:10.02 | Semlar | globals neffi |
| 00:10.06 | Neffi | :( |
| 00:10.24 | Neffi | % myGlobal1 = "foo"; print( _G["myGlobal" .. 1] ) -- one more time |
| 00:10.24 | yalb | Neffi: foo |
| 00:10.54 | Semlar | what did you even do |
| 00:11.18 | foxlit | Semlar: have you solved math yet? |
| 00:11.19 | tz | restarted the flux capacitor |
| 00:11.35 | Neffi | I told the owner of yalb that his bot is brokeded and he fixeded it |
| 00:13.37 | Neffi | hey Semlar, can you get me a job that pays handsomly and primarily involves playing video games, drinking beer, and sleeping? oh, and maybe there's also some kittens involved |
| 00:14.00 | Torhal | kittenificates Neffi. |
| 00:14.04 | Neffi | :O |
| 00:16.21 | Semlar | foxlit: well, i figured i needed to split it into separate cases and add them together |
| 00:18.12 | Semlar | so for t = 7 n = 5 you'd have case A with 4R and 3S + case B with 5$1L2S or 7! / 4! / 3! + 7! / 5! / 2! |
| 00:19.56 | foxlit | you're counting LSSRRRRR and SLSRRRRR |
| 00:20.46 | Semlar | well L can't occupy the 2 extremes so it needs to only count for the 3 slots in the middle |
| 00:22.05 | Semlar | i should be dividing by 2! to remove those possibilities or maybe i'm not thinking about that right |
| 00:25.00 | foxlit | second term also undercounts, as you don't distinguish between R and L there. |
| 00:26.18 | Semlar | there's always n-1 R unless there's an L in which case for every L we need an additional R |
| 00:27.04 | Semlar | but i'm not sure how to count L correctly |
| 00:27.41 | Semlar | in this scenario there can only ever be 1, but it could occupy any of the 3 middle slots |
| 00:28.45 | foxlit | uh. "+ case B with 5$1L2S" |
| 00:28.53 | Semlar | well $ should have been an R |
| 00:29.00 | foxlit | should be "+ case B with 5R1L" |
| 00:29.09 | foxlit | 1S? |
| 00:29.23 | Semlar | right |
| 00:29.32 | Semlar | my bad |
| 00:29.41 | Semlar | has to add up to 7 of course |
| 00:30.41 | Semlar | that's 7!/5! to remove the duplicates, but then we have way too many left |
| 00:30.50 | foxlit | which also changes your second term? |
| 00:31.12 | Semlar | i think dividing it by 2 would get the right number but not the right method |
| 00:31.44 | foxlit | (the correct answer is 53) |
| 00:31.49 | Semlar | it's not 56? |
| 00:31.59 | foxlit | it's not 56. |
| 00:32.22 | Semlar | i see. |
| 00:33.00 | Semlar | in that case my simulator is wrong |
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| 00:40.32 | Semlar | should it be adding 3 * 3 * 2 to the 7!/4!/3! |
| 00:43.26 | foxlit | (t=4, n=3), i.e. 2R2S or 3R1L might be easier for you to hand-check. |
| 00:43.33 | Semlar | we need 3 separate cases based on where L is because it takes it out of the equation? |
| 00:45.26 | foxlit | that seems like it would get complicated quickly. |
| 00:45.36 | Semlar | i guess it doesn't collide |
| 00:46.19 | Semlar | maybe i should have paid more attention in highschool |
| 00:46.40 | foxlit | not really a high-school problem. |
| 00:46.50 | Semlar | maybe i should have.. gone to college.. |
| 00:47.09 | Semlar | alright that's okay i can do this, i have faith |
| 00:48.16 | foxlit | so for (4,3), the valid games are RRSS, RSRS, RSSR, SRSR, SSRR, RLRR, RRLR. |
| 00:49.30 | Semlar | alright so case A is 2R2S 4!/2!/2! |
| 00:49.50 | foxlit | 4 choose 2, right. |
| 00:50.45 | foxlit | did I miss one? |
| 00:50.51 | Semlar | you must have |
| 00:51.00 | Semlar | because there's 2 Ls |
| 00:51.14 | foxlit | SRRS |
| 00:52.13 | Semlar | so second case is 3R1L |
| 00:53.05 | Semlar | but L can only occupy 2 slots |
| 00:56.48 | foxlit | so should be 8 in total. |
| 00:57.32 | Semlar | yeah but this problem doesn't help me understand that the formula for L is |
| 00:58.33 | Semlar | what about t=6 and n=3 |
| 00:59.47 | Semlar | i think i read that last one wrong anyway because n is the number of slots |
| 01:00.45 | Semlar | no nevermind |
| 01:06.21 | Semlar | i think it's because i was thinking in terms of slots instead of rolls |
| 01:13.41 | foxlit | RRLR is invalid because it involves moving back from the right-most cell |
| 01:14.00 | foxlit | so 7 valid games in all |
| 01:14.02 | Semlar | ah |
| 01:14.33 | Semlar | how many for t=6 n=3 |
| 01:14.39 | Semlar | 16? |
| 01:14.48 | Amarande | I'm trying to figure out exactly what this game actually is. :) |
| 01:15.52 | Semlar | no should be more |
| 01:16.38 | mckenziemc | it's a bored game, Amarande |
| 01:16.50 | Semlar | 18 maybe |
| 01:17.33 | Semlar | or 20 |
| 01:19.19 | Semlar | i got a good feeling about 21 |
| 01:19.39 | foxlit | that's 2R4S, 3R1L2S, and 4R2L. |
| 01:19.43 | Semlar | i've done a horrible job of calculating 3R1L2S |
| 01:19.45 | mckenziemc | hmm |
| 01:20.00 | Semlar | 4R2L should only have one possibility right |
| 01:20.34 | mckenziemc | no maybe the idea i just had wouldn't work |
| 01:32.22 | foxlit | Semlar: RLRLRR, yeah. |
| 01:33.02 | foxlit | "foxlit: it's not 56." << I'm actually going to have to take this back, it may just be 56. |
| 01:33.14 | Semlar | >_> |
| 01:35.41 | Semlar | alright so the conditions for L are: you can't have n-1 Rs before it, because that would end the game, and you must have at least 1 more R than the number of previous Ls before it |
| 01:36.34 | Semlar | now i just need to figure out how to write that in math |
| 01:48.20 | foxlit | fwiw, I don't think there's a convinient closed-form expression for you to find there. |
| 01:50.12 | Semlar | :( |
| 01:52.38 | foxlit | http://pastebin.com/z4tZhv94 << possibly the right numbers. |
| 01:53.34 | Semlar | http://pastebin.com/bWUbM9gm these are what i have, in a really horrible table |
| 01:54.49 | Semlar | which are the same as what you have, yay! |
| 01:55.34 | Semlar | so my simulator isn't broken, you made me doubt myself! |
| 01:56.52 | foxlit | :( |
| 01:57.01 | Semlar | unless we're both wrong |
| 01:57.11 | Semlar | which i still consider a victory |
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| 01:59.44 | foxlit | I kind of like this solution, so those numbers are probably right. |
| 02:00.19 | Semlar | sounds good |
| 04:35.18 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl_w_w@110-175-132-56.tpgi.com.au) |
| 04:36.18 | Iriel | Semlar: what does answer(24,20) yield for you? |
| 04:36.42 | Semlar | 83448 |
| 04:37.14 | Iriel | 100,50? |
| 04:37.26 | Iriel | And 100,51 |
| 04:37.30 | Semlar | :| |
| 04:37.39 | Semlar | 96952796365380733208559207524673815944 or something |
| 04:37.42 | Iriel | As inputs, sorry 8-) |
| 04:37.50 | Semlar | ask foxlit |
| 04:38.04 | Iriel | 2 of my results dont agree with his |
| 04:38.06 | Iriel | but he's idle 8-) |
| 04:39.17 | Iriel | I'll note the question says results are modulo 123454321 |
| 04:39.36 | Semlar | yeah i'm not applying that there obviously |
| 04:41.02 | Semlar | i can't calculate 100,51 with my simulator and i didn't finish writing my equation |
| 04:41.27 | Semlar | way too many permutations |
| 04:41.48 | Iriel | You dont have to actually enumerate them all |
| 04:41.58 | Iriel | At least, I dont think so |
| 04:42.16 | Iriel | but that doesn't explain why my (11,6) and (10,5) don't match foxlit's |
| 04:42.35 | Semlar | 11,6 is 2537 |
| 04:42.41 | Iriel | I get 1162535 |
| 04:42.44 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@75.133.100.116) |
| 04:43.00 | Semlar | and 10,5 is 1221 |
| 04:43.15 | mckenziemc | well, if you don't enumerate them all, you have to be careful your calculation is correct :p |
| 04:43.36 | Semlar | i'm 99% sure my bot is right about those numbers |
| 04:43.38 | Iriel | 1051220 |
| 04:43.56 | Semlar | it runs through exactly what the text describes |
| 04:44.29 | Simca | too bad the question doesn't provide any examples above like 3,2 |
| 04:44.36 | Simca | pretty terrible of them |
| 04:44.46 | Semlar | yeah it's a bit rude |
| 04:44.53 | Semlar | but such is life |
| 04:45.04 | Iriel | Semlar: does that mean you have a list of the 1221 permutations for 10, 5? |
| 04:45.15 | Semlar | no |
| 04:45.17 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:45.38 | Semlar | it's actually not written in a way that it can produce a list |
| 04:46.21 | Semlar | it recursively starts from a position with a certain number of rolls and tiles and calls itself on the next position |
| 04:47.00 | Semlar | based on what moves are valid |
| 04:47.07 | Iriel | Hm. |
| 04:47.12 | Iriel | I did mine a bit differently. |
| 04:47.25 | Iriel | It figures out paths from start to end IGNORING stays, then adds the stays back in later. |
| 04:47.45 | Amarande | are you people still doing that right-left-whatever thing :) |
| 04:48.01 | Amarande | I missed the very beginning of the convo, so I can't quite figure out exactly which game this is |
| 04:48.12 | Iriel | https://github.com/dlew/google-foobar/blob/master/questions/minions_bored_game.txt |
| 04:48.17 | Semlar | i probably should have written this in a way to show you the combinations but this is the first thing i thought of |
| 04:50.36 | Semlar | there are 4 potential cases: rights, rights + stays, rights + lefts, and rights + stays + lefts, which all need to be treated differently |
| 04:55.19 | mckenziemc | Amarande: Semlar's current Google Fubar challenge |
| 05:02.32 | Iriel | Semlar: Ok, I have the 1221 permutations for 10, 5 |
| 05:02.41 | Semlar | sounds good |
| 05:02.56 | Iriel | Now to figure out where my bug is! |
| 05:11.56 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX (dagger@p5DDFEEC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:07.13 | Iriel | Semlar: Found my issue! |
| 06:07.23 | Semlar | hooray! |
| 06:09.38 | mckenziemc | or one of them |
| 06:09.49 | Iriel | mckenziemc: Ye of little faith |
| 06:10.08 | mckenziemc | enough programming experience :-/ |
| 06:10.42 | Iriel | The code's not that long. |
| 06:10.57 | Semlar | it's not the size that counts |
| 06:11.29 | Iriel | I wrote mine in lua, too. |
| 06:12.10 | mckenziemc | but is it fully correct? |
| 06:12.17 | Iriel | As far as I can tell, yes. |
| 06:12.17 | Semlar | imports lua into python |
| 06:12.27 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 06:12.45 | Semlar | yeah it's not that easy to verify when you can't generate something to compare it against |
| 06:13.55 | Iriel | Well, I threw together a program to generate enumerations of possible moves, which was a good sanity check |
| 06:14.22 | Iriel | Anyway, now I can go to bed |
| 06:14.27 | Iriel | Only an hour and a half later than expected |
| 06:14.30 | Semlar | o.o |
| 06:58.07 | mckenziemc | speaking of which |
| 06:58.21 | mckenziemc | Semlar: how much time total/remaining do you have to solve that one |
| 06:58.44 | Semlar | 3 days |
| 07:00.34 | Semlar | foxlit already solved it but that's not too surprising |
| 07:01.11 | Semlar | well, assuming his executes within the time limit |
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| 08:35.21 | mckenziemc | and that it's accurate |
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| 10:29.57 | karl_w_w | is there a tool that will automatically make an image out of other images? |
| 10:30.36 | karl_w_w | as in one of those montages that looks like a single picture when zoomed out |
| 10:30.44 | Semlar | mosaic |
| 10:32.10 | Semlar | it's called a photo mosaic, that should help locate one |
| 10:32.52 | karl_w_w | mosaically.com |
| 10:32.55 | karl_w_w | thanks good guy Semlar |
| 10:33.11 | Semlar | gently pats karl_w_w |
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| 12:31.04 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 12:31.14 | Fisker | I remote debugged a kernel and I wat'd |
| 12:38.08 | Kalroth | you got core fiskered |
| 13:06.19 | karl_w_w | 5 hours of steam sale left |
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| 14:37.35 | VIad | karl_w_w: nothing interests me these past months :( |
| 14:38.26 | VIad | already own syndicate, just cause 3, fallout 4, black ops 3 (i.e. latest releases) so not much left to get |
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| 16:35.53 | karl_w_w | oculus rift preorders jan 6th |
| 16:36.05 | karl_w_w | nearly dropped my phone when i got that email |
| 16:37.04 | nevcairiel | why do you care when it preorders |
| 16:37.07 | nevcairiel | when does it ship |
| 16:40.46 | karl_w_w | Q1 |
| 16:40.52 | karl_w_w | which probably means march |
| 16:41.28 | nevcairiel | too bad the controllers are not ready |
| 16:41.32 | nevcairiel | but hardware going out is cool |
| 16:42.23 | Fisker | Oculus rift or htc vive then? |
| 16:43.10 | nevcairiel | which was the one that was delayed a bunch r ecently |
| 16:43.27 | karl_w_w | vive |
| 16:43.43 | nevcairiel | reports seemed doubtful they would even match their new release date |
| 16:44.59 | *** join/#wowuidev cawaker (~cawaker@64.135.177.114) |
| 16:54.04 | nevcairiel | in any case, going to get a oculus myself |
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| 17:25.37 | Ressy | Evil Corsair. :( |
| 17:27.16 | Fisker | It went from incompetence to malevolence? |
| 17:30.10 | karl_w_w | I can't decide if I want elite dangerous at 50% off |
| 17:33.57 | Ressy | 3 weeks they've had my gear. |
| 17:34.04 | Ressy | Last week they said they sent it to shipping already. |
| 17:34.13 | Ressy | Today, it's still on someone's desk. |
| 17:34.22 | Ressy | They're 'hoping' to get it out today or tomorrow. |
| 17:34.42 | Ressy | and hope to get it out express... But they have to talk to shipping about that first... Cuz express isn't default. |
| 17:34.50 | Ressy | Otherwise it'll be another week. |
| 17:35.13 | Semlar | this is what happens when you run a business on hope |
| 17:35.32 | Ressy | I hate Corsair. |
| 17:35.39 | Ressy | Evga was 5 business days. |
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| 17:41.28 | karl_w_w | at least it's not razer |
| 17:47.29 | karl_w_w | decided no, not gonna buy elite dangerous |
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| 17:56.23 | Semlar | bijects neffi |
| 18:05.56 | Arrow|work | ah i think the steam sales just ended... was going through my wishlist and my cart said prices changed |
| 18:08.32 | Mr_Rabies | yup |
| 18:08.49 | Mr_Rabies | very, very few good deals this year |
| 18:08.51 | Mr_Rabies | mostly a wash |
| 18:09.03 | Mr_Rabies | the only stuff that was any good was like 2-3 years old |
| 18:09.37 | zenzelezz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8CelYGFLbs - why do I never get any of these funny situations when I play |
| 18:16.14 | Mr_Rabies | i get some pretty great ones in war thunder, or did when i still played regularly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBBt9zcTONk |
| 18:17.22 | Mr_Rabies | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b6CzV41QdA |
| 18:17.23 | nevcairiel | thats just evidence of your crappy internet |
| 18:17.36 | Mr_Rabies | second one isn't lag, it's LOD problems |
| 18:19.23 | Mr_Rabies | it's a really pretty game, i wish the developers knew how to make a good video game out of all the good subsystems they have |
| 18:19.26 | Mr_Rabies | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHFWo6179E |
| 18:19.58 | Mr_Rabies | it's got way too many imbalances that basically mean playing american tanks is a waste of time, because it's striving for historical accuracy with modeling tanks |
| 18:20.18 | Mr_Rabies | which sounds good, but i doubt there were too many situations where there were 15 tiger IIs against 15 shermans |
| 18:21.24 | nevcairiel | personally I havent noticed any such bad imbalances, sure some tanks are very strong, but not impossible to kill |
| 18:21.31 | Mr_Rabies | the damage modeling is amazing |
| 18:21.36 | Mr_Rabies | have you played as american tanks? |
| 18:21.51 | Mr_Rabies | at every battle rating they underpen compared to their competition, and basically have no armor |
| 18:22.20 | Mr_Rabies | which yes, is realistic, but what isn't is that the germans could match shermans 1:1 in almost any situation |
| 18:22.26 | nevcairiel | I far more wonder if half the players dont cheat in some way, if you can hit my viewing slot from 300m+ distance right out of motion... |
| 18:22.49 | Mr_Rabies | the whole point of shermans was they were cheap, plentiful, and incredibly easy to repair in comparison to the others |
| 18:22.56 | nevcairiel | when my tank is moving, i cant accurately hit shit |
| 18:23.14 | Mr_Rabies | like, if a tiger broke down, it needed to be towed back to the factory for repairs, and good luck towing that heavy POS |
| 18:23.39 | Mr_Rabies | but a sherman was basically like, anyone who tinkered on their car could pop it open and repair many problems in the field |
| 18:23.49 | nevcairiel | they try to balance that by assigning them different levels |
| 18:23.52 | Mr_Rabies | by design |
| 18:24.00 | nevcairiel | shermans are much lower than a tiger II |
| 18:24.30 | Mr_Rabies | i've fought tiger IIs in a 75mm or 76mm sherman plenty of times |
| 18:24.48 | Mr_Rabies | they're literally impossible to kill unless you're directly behind them and point blank |
| 18:24.57 | Mr_Rabies | with either 75mm or 76mm us ammo |
| 18:25.16 | zenzelezz | well, I did have a few amusing situations in WoT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDIswK7o_ZI (too much slowed down, I made awful decisions when learning video), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRexHw7TGPQ |
| 18:25.45 | zenzelezz | Warthunder ground forces was too difficult for me. Don't have the reaction time for such simulation where you die on one shot |
| 18:25.52 | zenzelezz | just like FPS games, can't do them multiplayer |
| 18:26.28 | Mr_Rabies | the american TDs were nice for a short while but they got huge nerfs |
| 18:26.30 | nevcairiel | you dont die in one shit in war thunder, well not everytime, although far too many players seem to manage to hit that one weak spot of your tank every single damn time |
| 18:26.37 | nevcairiel | shot* |
| 18:26.51 | Mr_Rabies | they had basically no armor like all the american tanks, even less but the american tanks always have less armor at every BR tier |
| 18:26.58 | Mr_Rabies | but they had higher-end cannons than the other american tanks |
| 18:27.05 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: could have just been bad luck, yeah |
| 18:27.17 | Mr_Rabies | but Gaijin wouldn't let the americans have any shot at winning, so they nerfed the TDs into uselessness |
| 18:27.54 | Mr_Rabies | tanks with specially designed quickloading systems had their loading times increased to like 50% more than german or russian tanks at the same BR with much nicer guns |
| 18:28.18 | Mr_Rabies | er TDs, not tanks |
| 18:28.49 | Mr_Rabies | i got so frustrated with how bad the american vehicles are in both ground and air forces in war thunder that i basically stopped playing, though |
| 18:29.21 | Mr_Rabies | the american planes eventually got pretty decent for a little while, but then they all mysteriously got the same bugs on their flight models that lasted for months |
| 18:29.26 | nevcairiel | been playing the new UK tanks recently |
| 18:29.52 | Mr_Rabies | endless overheating, invisible airbrakes added at the same time as the plane mysteriously wobbling everytime you turn |
| 18:29.57 | Mr_Rabies | WEP breaking on tons of planes |
| 18:30.23 | zenzelezz | do you play arcade or realistic mostly when playing ground? |
| 18:30.58 | Mr_Rabies | realistic |
| 18:31.00 | Mr_Rabies | arcade is just |
| 18:31.13 | Mr_Rabies | you get sniped from across the map and die in 1 hit within 2 seconds of spawning as US tanks |
| 18:31.24 | Mr_Rabies | because everyone just picks off the easy targets immediately |
| 18:31.34 | Mr_Rabies | i do it when i play russians or germans |
| 18:31.37 | Mr_Rabies | or even americans, tbh |
| 18:32.00 | Mr_Rabies | the only tanks that american tanks can reliably handle at any Battle Rating are other american tanks :v |
| 18:32.11 | nevcairiel | gotta know where the sniping idiots are and avoid their target areas, most maps you can avoid them and just capture the targets because they are too dumb to move |
| 18:32.23 | Mr_Rabies | i mean literally two seconds after spawning |
| 18:32.28 | Mr_Rabies | just load in and BOOM, DEAD |
| 18:32.39 | nevcairiel | that never happened to me |
| 18:32.45 | Mr_Rabies | always happens to me |
| 18:32.52 | Mr_Rabies | there's supposed to be spawn protection but it breaks A LOT |
| 18:33.13 | Mr_Rabies | it's just too easy to get sniped in arcade tanks, so i play realistic |
| 18:33.31 | Mr_Rabies | american tanks are at least sometimes playable when you can't tell where your target is from the other side of the planet |
| 18:33.59 | Mr_Rabies | if you can rush in and get a shot at point blank while moving at 55 kph you might stand a chance |
| 18:34.31 | Mr_Rabies | the only times i ever win as americans are when we have russians on our team for realistic tanks |
| 18:34.50 | zenzelezz | perhaps I should give it aonther try. I did really want to get to the Jagdpanther and Panther |
| 18:34.57 | Mr_Rabies | if it's us vs russia, us/germany vs russia, or us vs russia/germany, we lose every time |
| 18:35.12 | Mr_Rabies | i dunno when you played realistic tanks last |
| 18:35.14 | nevcairiel | just dont play americans anymore instead of rambling about it for an hour, jeez :po |
| 18:35.20 | nevcairiel | there is the new british ones now too |
| 18:35.31 | Mr_Rabies | the grind is too annoying to switch, and i love american wwii tech :( |
| 18:35.41 | nevcairiel | apparently you hate it |
| 18:35.44 | Amarande | yeah, complaining about bad balance is one of the easiest ways to get called a scrub :( |
| 18:35.48 | Mr_Rabies | i dunno when you played realistic tanks last, zenzelezz, but the nameplates are gone in realistic mode now |
| 18:35.51 | Mr_Rabies | so you can sneak up on folks |
| 18:36.01 | Amarande | pretty much you either learn to play without the crap part of the game, or you find another game :) |
| 18:36.29 | Mr_Rabies | no, i love it, i just hate how war thunder never has situations where the american vehicles' strengths were |
| 18:36.39 | zenzelezz | I never played realistic ground; wanted to learn it a little before going that far |
| 18:36.52 | Mr_Rabies | they basically force them into positions they'd almost never have in real life and call it balanced because the vehicles are modeled realistically |
| 18:36.53 | zenzelezz | could be I should just go to realistic, might be more fun |
| 18:37.12 | Mr_Rabies | realistic tanks are just a totally different game, generally |
| 18:37.25 | Mr_Rabies | camouflage matters, hiding your silhouette matters |
| 18:37.36 | nevcairiel | just like the UK, the US never had a true ground "threat" to them, if they wanted to use their tanks they had to ship them somewhere, while german and russians had actual ground battles to fight where they could just drive to ... that changes how things are designed |
| 18:37.36 | Mr_Rabies | moving very slowly at times to avoid catching people's eyes, etc |
| 18:38.01 | Mr_Rabies | generally the US tanks were deployed in huge numbers, though, nevcairiel |
| 18:38.12 | Mr_Rabies | it was very much quantity over quality, and it worked really well |
| 18:38.18 | Amarande | yeah, a cursory look at history suggests we're really not all that great at ground wars |
| 18:38.25 | nevcairiel | you still design tanks differently if you build them like that though |
| 18:38.30 | Mr_Rabies | flanking the slow german tanks worked really well when they were outnumbered 10:1, 20:1 |
| 18:38.37 | Mr_Rabies | but that isn't a thing that happens in war thunder |
| 18:38.38 | nevcairiel | and war thunder is not going to give you two US tanks to compensate =p |
| 18:38.41 | Amarande | air wars, and plonking specific targets from the safety of the skies, oh, that we're awesome at ... ground wars not so much |
| 18:38.42 | Mr_Rabies | since forces are 1:1 |
| 18:39.28 | Amarande | those usually degenerate into ... what's the word they like to use ... "quagmire" I believe |
| 18:39.42 | Mr_Rabies | in war thunder the american planes kinda suck too, because they're awful climbers and everyone starts at the same situation altitude wise |
| 18:39.42 | zenzelezz | to be technical, both Russian and German tanks were generally transported by train, but you're still right |
| 18:40.01 | Amarande | zenzelezz: yeah, that's pretty logical, given that tanks get absurdly bad fuel mileage :) |
| 18:40.12 | Amarande | pretty sure they literally are gallons to the mile |
| 18:40.22 | Mr_Rabies | by the time the germans got their warning of the american planes, they were already at cruising altitude, and had to use their fast climbers to intercept |
| 18:40.29 | Mr_Rabies | but in war thunder everyone starts at basically the same height |
| 18:41.11 | Mr_Rabies | so basically war thunder has realistic vehicle modeling which i love, but really only plays to the strengths of the russians and occasionally the germans' vehicles in actual gameplay |
| 18:41.29 | nevcairiel | well thats again a problem of the american role in WWII |
| 18:42.22 | nevcairiel | short of hawaii, they were never really attacked through the air, they didnt necessarily need a fast interceptor plane |
| 18:42.22 | Mr_Rabies | it wouldn't be hard to have american planes get a massive air-start at the beginning of matches to simulate the fact they were launching from air bases far, far away to get to altitude |
| 18:42.57 | Mr_Rabies | but they just don't bother, because people basically stopped playing american vehicles since it's an uphill battle most of the time |
| 18:43.57 | Mr_Rabies | i'd say it's probably about 40% russian, 45% german, 5% americans last time i played for both air and ground forces |
| 18:44.15 | Mr_Rabies | no one plays japanese, either, generally |
| 18:44.29 | Mr_Rabies | except genuine madmen that fly like the goddamned red baron |
| 18:44.47 | Mr_Rabies | oh, i guess i also forgot british :X there's a good contingent of them, too |
| 18:45.04 | Mr_Rabies | lots of them at early and mid tiers, less at higher tiers |
| 18:45.19 | Mr_Rabies | where the hispanos are king |
| 18:45.19 | Amarande | well that's typical of gaming in general |
| 18:46.05 | Amarande | the higher you go in tiers in a game where there's a significant element of initial choice, the less and less variety you see |
| 18:46.37 | Amarande | we see it in wow and diablo 3 too, it's why blizzard decided pretty much the whole oldschool talent system wasn't even worth maintaining anymore :) |
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| 18:47.20 | Amarande | I'm not sure I've really seen much of any games that retain any really wide variety of viable choice all the way to the top |
| 18:47.39 | Amarande | chess openings, maybe ... that's about all I can think of (and even there there's a tendency to stick with the tried and true, though I suspect time limits have a lot to do with that) |
| 18:48.46 | Mr_Rabies | it's a massive grind to switch countries in war thunder, though |
| 18:49.00 | Mr_Rabies | so most people just quit when their vehicles start to suck |
| 18:49.24 | Amarande | same in WoW, too, but a lot of people probably do switch if their objective is pvp and their class is full of fail this xpac |
| 18:49.38 | Mr_Rabies | it's way, way worse in war thunder |
| 18:50.06 | Mr_Rabies | you could probably grind 3 chars to 100 by questing in the time it takes to get to use a single jet for one country in WT |
| 18:50.16 | Mr_Rabies | even with premium, double that for free players |
| 18:51.38 | nevcairiel | you dont have to play on the highest tier, there is plenty fun to be had on lower tiers |
| 18:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | germans are generally weak at early tiers until they get cannons, russians are weak super early but get cannons before anyone else, americans are really nice early on since they start with 50 cals instead of 7mm, but they barely ever use cannons and once the planes start to get more armored, you basically have to rely on fires from tracers to kill people instead of actual bullets, british |
| 18:51.55 | Mr_Rabies | get cannons pretty early and have basically slightly variable clones of the same plane for like 4 tiers until jets |
| 18:52.29 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, jet gameplay in WT is totally broken and the game basically gets more and more broken as you tier up, but still |
| 18:53.10 | Mr_Rabies | japanese are all over the place, basically their planes are useless at combat or they're so loaded up with cannons and stuff it's ridiculous |
| 18:53.26 | Mr_Rabies | super maneuverable, but basically made of balsa wood |
| 18:54.12 | Amarande | yeah, tiered gameplay is a good thing |
| 18:54.21 | Amarande | probably a reason world pvp in mmos isn't as successful of an idea as it ought to be |
| 18:54.51 | Mr_Rabies | tiers are good, but they're pretty broken in WT |
| 18:55.00 | Mr_Rabies | they almost always favor russians where they can |
| 18:55.06 | Mr_Rabies | since they're a russian developer |
| 18:55.12 | Mr_Rabies | and russia is doing....things right now |
| 18:55.14 | Amarande | (before long it mostly just discourages people because there's no way for newbies to avoid top tier players) |
| 18:55.16 | Mr_Rabies | things are happening over there |
| 18:55.26 | Amarande | Russia's been pretty nationalist for quite a while too, haven't they? |
| 18:55.38 | Amarande | (have they ever not had a super strong national spirit, come to think of it ...) |
| 18:55.39 | Mr_Rabies | it goes beyond nationalism, i'd say |
| 18:56.37 | Mr_Rabies | i think a little nationalism is a good thing, but they're nearing north korea levels of nationalism |
| 18:56.56 | Mr_Rabies | where everyone's basically too terrified of being killed or tossed in the gulag to say otherwise |
| 18:58.03 | Amarande | well, what'd that guy in the world is not enough say about the FSB (in reference to the KGB) |
| 18:58.07 | Amarande | something like "new name, same great service" |
| 19:00.37 | Amarande | of course, who knows if some of those American vehicles don't suck that bad in reality too |
| 19:00.47 | Amarande | remember, we are the nation that invented such lovely uses of federal dollars as the F-35 |
| 19:02.47 | Mr_Rabies | some of them definitely did, but iteration was so fast in WWII that it didn't matter that much, and mostly the american planes were designed with the perspective of "we have a massive altitude advantage, and we have to protect the bombers" |
| 19:02.52 | Mr_Rabies | neither of which really are a thing in war thunder |
| 19:03.17 | Mr_Rabies | there are bombers but they're incredibly easy to kill and their strengths are never really utilized in WT |
| 19:03.23 | Amarande | also it sounds like you all get put out there on the battlefield in plain view of each other |
| 19:03.24 | Mr_Rabies | for every country |
| 19:03.38 | Mr_Rabies | more or less |
| 19:03.41 | Amarande | while it sounds like ... yeah, no wonder the USA is so obsessed with secrecy |
| 19:03.50 | Mr_Rabies | you both start on airfields |
| 19:03.57 | Amarande | it seems like we only get any real advantage when we can get in place without being challenged until we're ready |
| 19:04.04 | Mr_Rabies | that are just a few KM apart |
| 19:04.06 | Amarande | otherwise, yeah, maybe we do suck to a fair degree :| |
| 19:04.17 | Mr_Rabies | or occasionally you start on a carrier, mostly against japan |
| 19:04.38 | Mr_Rabies | eh, it was just logistics and designing the craft you needed at the time |
| 19:04.59 | Mr_Rabies | many of the russian and german planes had a hard time operating at the altitudes american planes loved to cruise in |
| 19:05.14 | Mr_Rabies | that's part of why they picked the altitude they did |
| 19:05.21 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 19:05.24 | Mr_Rabies | less about the russians |
| 19:06.05 | Mr_Rabies | but way less likely to see ivan show up and get uncomfortably close to your bombers while you're in an operation if you're up that high |
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| 19:25.40 | karl_w_w | thanks Semlar you helped me get all-important karma https://redd.it/3zfupt |
| 19:25.53 | Semlar | i do what i can |
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| 19:35.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 19:35.06 | Fisker | hugtackles Lopeppeppy |
| 19:35.26 | Lopeppeppy | Happy new year, every people! |
| 19:37.47 | zenzelezz | ohai peppy |
| 19:39.31 | Constie | Now it is. |
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| 19:42.34 | Amarande | Happy New Year, Peppy :) |
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| 22:18.22 | Amarande | wow, PSN is out again |
| 22:19.18 | Amarande | Time to just suck it up and award the victory flag of virtually all non-handheld gaming hegemony to Redmond, I guess? :( |
| 22:28.00 | Rythal | Happy New Years! |
| 22:28.55 | Amarande | Rythal: yeah, that seems to come along with PSN outages, doesn't it LOL ... Happy New Year |
| 22:31.47 | Rythal | Dunno about PSN, I just thought it was about time I wished my favorite people good tidings. |
| 22:33.41 | Gnarfoz | ~ugt applies |
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