| 00:12.43 | Shirik | bshelden: Unkle1: yes I created a system that would automatically distribute patches over addon channels. Code was signed so that it could be trusted and wouldn't amount to running arbitrary code from unknown people. |
| 00:12.56 | Shirik | and yes you ABSOLUTELY need crypto |
| 00:13.16 | bshelden | For the stuff I was doing, web of trust was sufficient, but believe me I do understand the space. |
| 00:13.34 | bshelden | I just wasn't that worried about a player in the guild managing to fabricate a post by an officer. |
| 00:13.47 | Neffi | "I created a system that would automatically distribute patches over addon channels" <- oh man. did you ever employ it Shirik? |
| 00:13.50 | Shirik | there are guilds that would :P |
| 00:13.58 | Shirik | Neffi: I did, but it never got outside of my guild |
| 00:14.12 | bshelden | Oh indeed. I just only cared about my own, and I was the only member with any programming ability, so the risk was low. |
| 00:14.16 | Neffi | that's actually cool as fuck. i would never think to do that, or probably bother doing it |
| 00:14.28 | Shirik | mostly the purpose here was to allow me to fix a boss mod in the middle of a fight and then distribute it to everyone before the next attempt |
| 00:14.34 | bshelden | Very nice |
| 00:14.36 | Neffi | did you write the update to the SVs as well I guess? |
| 00:14.41 | Shirik | yeah |
| 00:14.46 | bshelden | And hell yes crypto would be vital for that |
| 00:14.48 | Neffi | that's awesome |
| 00:14.58 | bshelden | I wouldn't have been blasse if I intended on actually executing the data :P |
| 00:14.58 | Shirik | credit doesn't go all to me |
| 00:15.11 | Neffi | yeah I can definitely see the boon there if you run an addon for guild raids |
| 00:15.15 | Shirik | I believe it was foxlit that wrote the crypto stuff |
| 00:15.35 | bshelden | What timeline was this? |
| 00:15.42 | bshelden | I was messing about just before the advent of the calendar in BC |
| 00:15.48 | Shirik | maybe 4 years ago or so |
| 00:15.56 | Shirik | or 5 |
| 00:15.59 | bshelden | Hrm, not too far off each other then |
| 00:16.07 | bshelden | I didn't get much luck when asking about lua crypto libraries |
| 00:16.15 | Shirik | that's because lua's really bad at it |
| 00:16.21 | foxlit | opie is 7 years old; my sha/rsa code predates that massively. |
| 00:16.22 | bshelden | Mostly responses of shock given what I was attempting |
| 00:16.23 | Neffi | pure Lua? I dont know of any good ones, no |
| 00:16.24 | Shirik | verifying a signature isn't too bad, but signing something would take forever |
| 00:16.54 | bshelden | Yeah, signing, in-line signing, is what would have been required. This pushed me towards Web of Trust |
| 00:17.00 | Shirik | honestly everything more than about 2 years old is a blur to me |
| 00:17.12 | bshelden | I only remember by proximity to features in wow, not dates. |
| 00:17.15 | Shirik | for my purposes, I just signed the code outside of wow |
| 00:17.20 | bshelden | I did a lot of idling in shattrath at the time I was on that |
| 00:17.23 | Shirik | no need to sign it in an addon |
| 00:18.25 | bshelden | I had three models. Direct (had to see the author online, then just ask their client). Web of Trust (same, but accept endorsements from specific people). Crypto and Sign (with direct or WoT key endorsements) |
| 00:19.10 | Shirik | I've been bashing my head against a wall of people lately who refuse to accept the web of trust model |
| 00:19.28 | Shirik | they keep saying "we can just count how many people approved X and once it goes over some limit it's trusted" |
| 00:19.33 | Shirik | and I'm sitting here like "you guys are idiots" |
| 00:20.00 | Shirik | like there's a reason the web of trust concept has a little more complexity in it |
| 00:20.04 | Shirik | it wasn't arbitrary |
| 00:20.17 | bshelden | Can you tell me where that's wrong? I'll happily admit I don't fully understand the space. I knew it better at the time, but that was years ago when I was reading up on it. |
| 00:20.36 | Shirik | the problem is that you don't necessarily trust a given person signing something |
| 00:20.50 | Shirik | let's assume there are at least 100 bad people in the world |
| 00:21.02 | Shirik | 100 people signing a signature saying "yup, that's Shirik" could easily happen |
| 00:21.09 | bshelden | mmm |
| 00:21.14 | Shirik | but if YOU don't trust any of those 100 people you shouldn't trust that signature |
| 00:21.25 | Shirik | you should figure out what your trust path to that signature is |
| 00:21.29 | bshelden | Ok, I wasn't going there. My intention was that you'd pick trusted individuals. Not just accept 100 guildies said it's fine. |
| 00:22.01 | bshelden | For my guild, I would have pre-seeded with myself, since I trusted myself not to corrupt the system. But any other clients would have to come up with their own lists. |
| 00:22.16 | Shirik | this system that I'm referring to has been in a kind of "Beta testing" phase for about 2 weeks now |
| 00:22.18 | Shirik | and it's already corrupt |
| 00:22.25 | Shirik | and I'm sitting here like "what the hell did you guys expect" |
| 00:22.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~industria@86.93.134.78) |
| 00:23.03 | bshelden | Like any end user of security software, they expected it to just solve the problem so they wouldn't have to think about it. |
| 00:23.52 | Shirik | in other news, I was having fun breaking stuff today too |
| 00:23.59 | Shirik | I was trying to force an application into kernel mode |
| 00:25.17 | bshelden | Did I really just say 'clients' instead of 'users'? I've been in software too long >.> |
| 00:25.31 | ccox | Shirik: if it was an Apple application, âforceâ doesnât count (@#$%@#%@# target rich environment) |
| 00:25.50 | Shirik | ccox: I managed to break through every layer except one :( |
| 00:26.05 | Shirik | The only reason I couldn't get to the end was because the function I was targetting.... apparently isn't supported anymore |
| 00:26.14 | ccox | lol |
| 00:26.27 | Shirik | literally the function is "switch into kernel mode" |
| 00:26.47 | Shirik | and I had the appropriate privilege to call it, but it doesn't exist |
| 00:27.42 | ccox | Heh. Iâve got several privelege escalations due to older functions not emulating correctly, or lacking error checking. |
| 00:27.53 | ccox | But yes, a missing function is difficult to call, much less break. |
| 00:28.55 | Shirik | (and before anyone calls the police on me: part of developing a safety-critical application is making sure untrusted software can't break it.... so what I'm doing is totally legal.) |
| 00:30.00 | bshelden | Heh, I've been a paranoid dev long enough that that was my first thought. Black hat didn't even occur to me. |
| 00:30.38 | Shirik | ccox: what I found interesting was that the function returns a success code |
| 00:30.39 | ccox | just curious: does it count as âwhite hatâ if your old black one is totally covered in dust? |
| 00:30.59 | Shirik | apparently how they "stopped implementing" it was by always returning success, and then marking in the documentation "as of <version>, this function is not supported" |
| 00:31.04 | bshelden | That would be "grey hat" or "grimy hat". Depends on context. |
| 00:31.36 | ccox | Shirik: ouch, thatâs kind of a bad way to handle deprecation of an API |
| 00:32.00 | Shirik | well the error became very obvious when a HLT instruction instead crashed the application with a GPF |
| 00:35.31 | ccox | try { asm_halt; } catch(â¦) { asm_fire; } |
| 00:35.45 | Shirik | LP0 on fire? |
| 00:37.56 | ccox | no, that printer got retired after the third fire incident. |
| 00:47.20 | kullervo | ... third fire. |
| 00:48.59 | ccox | notes that kullervo has probably never had to wrangle a band printer⦠|
| 00:49.30 | kullervo | are you sure? |
| 00:51.55 | ccox | I used the word âprobablyâ for a reason⦠|
| 00:51.56 | kullervo | okay yeah you're right, I was thinking of different models |
| 00:52.05 | kullervo | googled to make sure |
| 00:53.19 | kullervo | quite possibly the only printing equipment I haven't touched |
| 00:53.37 | Shirik | you killed him |
| 00:54.42 | kullervo | sorry I can't say anything funny to that |
| 00:55.11 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (~ccox@c-50-143-178-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:55.11 | *** join/#wowuidev ccox (~ccox@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Developer/CCox) |
| 00:57.21 | kullervo | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQSiSqCiaDM |
| 01:03.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-151-202-49-117.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:16.09 | *** join/#wowuidev Neffi (~Neffi@pool-151-202-49-117.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:25.13 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:27.53 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:41.18 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:46.45 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:55.07 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 01:55.17 | mckenziemc | HCF's Shirik. |
| 01:57.57 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 02:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:17.21 | mckenziemc | reallocated sector count: 41 sectors |
| 02:17.28 | mckenziemc | i think that drive's fast approaching EOL :D |
| 02:17.48 | Shirik | nah |
| 02:17.55 | Shirik | you just need to find them again |
| 02:18.13 | mckenziemc | who rebooted you Shirik |
| 02:18.21 | Shirik | I am immune to HCF instructions |
| 02:18.40 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 02:19.01 | Shirik | in other news I get to read the ATA/ATAPI specification tomorrow |
| 02:19.04 | Shirik | that's going to be fun |
| 02:19.16 | mckenziemc | send me a copy |
| 02:19.25 | Shirik | I can't |
| 02:19.30 | Shirik | it's copyrighted :( |
| 02:19.45 | mckenziemc | :p |
| 02:20.30 | mckenziemc | i forgot what it was i wanted to check in the SATA spec some time ago, but that only lasted till i found you have to pay a couple hundred dollars... |
| 02:21.01 | Shirik | heh yeah |
| 02:21.22 | Shirik | I actually almost had us pay for it |
| 02:21.33 | Shirik | then I checked the standards database we have and we already had a copy |
| 02:21.42 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 02:22.08 | Trela | Can probably find PDFs somewhere. :P |
| 02:22.15 | Shirik | the worst part of that document is like it keeps sending you to different volumes |
| 02:22.24 | Shirik | it's like the document is specifically constructed to make you have to buy all pieces of it |
| 02:22.30 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 02:22.49 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 02:23.31 | mckenziemc | http://www.ele.uri.edu/courses/ele408/s2001/projects/roland_ide/ide.html hmm |
| 02:24.19 | mckenziemc | that answers my question of what PDIAG is... |
| 02:25.15 | mckenziemc | i've seen a motherboard with that pin missing and elsewhere a cable with that wire cut, and all i knew is it wasn't cable-select |
| 02:35.06 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:36.29 | kullervo | epic bug |
| 02:36.58 | kullervo | falling through a WoD generic model round Horde building's roof hole means instant DC |
| 02:37.45 | kullervo | http://kullervo.dy.fi/pub/drop/pic/WoWScrnShot_091515_053741.jpg |
| 02:37.47 | kullervo | such as thsi here |
| 02:38.32 | kullervo | a bit hard to repeat |
| 02:38.41 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:38.41 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:40.31 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:40.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:41.47 | mckenziemc | you should know better than to stick things in random holes by now, kullervo |
| 02:42.37 | kullervo | I wasn't sticking things in it, I was trying to see if there was an invisible wall |
| 02:44.58 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 02:50.23 | *** part/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:54.14 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 02:54.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:54.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 02:56.13 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:29.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Wobin (quassel@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:feae:af75) |
| 03:29.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine (Sunshine@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:9160) |
| 03:29.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine (Sunshine@unaffiliated/sunshine/x-2691069) |
| 03:29.49 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~quassel@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 03:29.59 | *** join/#wowuidev End (robin@tetris.cornhooves.org) |
| 03:30.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (Torhal@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:9160) |
| 03:30.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (quassel@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 03:30.56 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 03:31.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (Kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 03:31.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 03:36.19 | *** join/#wowuidev Kesava (SlikerHawk@gateway/shell/layerbnc/x-oodeavzirwkwodor) |
| 03:48.27 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:49.14 | Iriel | All those quitters, bah. |
| 03:54.46 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~quassel@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 03:58.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Shirik (quassel@WoWUIDev/WoWIStaff/Norganna/StatisticalEngineer/Shirik) |
| 03:58.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Shirik] by ChanServ |
| 04:02.03 | mckenziemc1 | so much for that instruction immunity, Shirik |
| 04:02.11 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 04:02.42 | mckenziemc | my disconnect was unrelated! i had to unplug the kill-a-watt from my router |
| 04:04.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Sunshine (Sunshine@unaffiliated/sunshine/x-2691069) |
| 04:04.12 | *** join/#wowuidev Torhal (Torhal@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:9160) |
| 04:04.22 | mckenziemc | stabs Torhal. |
| 04:04.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kaelten (Kaelten@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/WoWIFA/CurseStaff/kaelten) |
| 04:04.42 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Kaelten] by ChanServ |
| 04:05.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe_AFK (~quassel@cpe-24-55-4-32.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 04:15.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Kesava (SlikerHawk@gateway/shell/layerbnc/x-oefhcqhffhjcsehs) |
| 04:24.25 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~industria@86.93.134.78) |
| 04:40.52 | *** join/#wowuidev ShadniX_ (dagger@p579417BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:45.58 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:00.01 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 05:04.47 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:05.35 | *** join/#wowuidev Gethe (~quassel@cpe-24-55-4-32.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 05:25.00 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 05:48.48 | *** join/#wowuidev NuSuey (uid3556@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yddmaemaiwiwjybb) |
| 06:04.33 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@cm-84.213.146.58.getinternet.no) |
| 06:11.21 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:19.47 | *** join/#wowuidev purl (ibot@69-58-76-73.ut.vivintwireless.net) |
| 21:19.47 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 6.2.x ToC: 60200 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl |
