| 00:17.25 | *** join/#wowuidev sintAcks (~Syntax@75.109.20.31) |
| 00:28.39 | Shirik | ~ping |
| 00:28.39 | purl | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
| 00:28.52 | Shirik | I broke something |
| 00:29.09 | Shirik | I think it's chrome |
| 00:29.38 | Shirik | at this rate I'm going to switch to Edge |
| 00:34.16 | Stanzilla | Shirik: are you on win10 rtm or the insider build? |
| 00:34.22 | Shirik | insider |
| 00:34.44 | Stanzilla | you're fucked then |
| 00:34.50 | Shirik | wat |
| 00:34.55 | Stanzilla | it's a known bug |
| 00:35.04 | Shirik | ? |
| 00:35.15 | Stanzilla | Chrome is broken on the insider build |
| 00:35.24 | Shirik | orly |
| 00:35.25 | Stanzilla | only the 64bit (of chrome) though |
| 00:35.35 | Shirik | well of course I use 64 bit :P |
| 00:35.52 | Stanzilla | yeah then you will have to wait until the path gets merged and pushed |
| 00:36.05 | Stanzilla | you can switch to the 32bit chrome version or disable the sandbox (don't do that) |
| 00:37.13 | Shirik | holy shit |
| 00:37.17 | Shirik | so I looked up the bug |
| 00:37.25 | Stanzilla | haha I just wanted to link it to you |
| 00:37.30 | Stanzilla | because I knew it would be interesting |
| 00:37.33 | Shirik | this is the stupidest thing ever |
| 00:37.55 | Shirik | they rely on the ASM layout for their application |
| 00:37.59 | Shirik | why the hell would you do that ever |
| 00:38.00 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 00:38.06 | Stanzilla | they got lots of angry comments for that |
| 00:39.58 | Shirik | ............ |
| 00:40.11 | Shirik | they already posted the fix...... and the way they fixed it was to couple it EVEN MORE to Windows internals |
| 00:40.13 | Shirik | brilliant |
| 00:40.30 | Stanzilla | yeah that's why I said, takes a while till they merge it, not sure which chrome branch you are on |
| 00:40.48 | Shirik | this is not software development |
| 00:40.52 | Shirik | this is what I would expect from monkeys |
| 00:42.14 | Stanzilla | I wonder what the original reasoning behind doing it that way was |
| 00:43.30 | Amarande | Stanzilla: hmm |
| 00:43.43 | Amarande | wonder if this kind of shit is the main reason why windows browsers have generally been so slow to adopt 64-bit? |
| 00:44.07 | Amarande | after all, practically every linux browser has had 64-bit readily available for years, while the major windows browsers tend to stick like glue to 32-bit most of the time (well except IE) |
| 00:44.31 | Amarande | (okay, well, except IE and Edge, which I keep forgetting about because I've never touched Win10, LOL) |
| 00:44.33 | Shirik | this has nothing to do with 32-bit vs. 64-bit. You do NOT bind your application to the ABI EVER. |
| 00:44.45 | Shirik | that's asking for trouble. |
| 00:45.33 | Shirik | this problem is entirely in the realm of people doing stupid things, and even then when they realized the problem, the way they fixed it was to DO THE EXACT SAME THING AGAIN |
| 00:45.46 | Stanzilla | \o/ ghetto bandaids |
| 00:45.53 | Stanzilla | emphasis on AIDS |
| 00:47.36 | Amarande | not to mention, doesn't coupling bits of chrome to windows internals make it especially fun for the poor sods who have to maintain the linux version? |
| 00:48.36 | Amarande | (to say nothing of the android version, though I'm *still* entirely not sure exactly what the near future of the android app ecosystem is like given the whole Dalvik/ART transition and Oracle lawsuit stuff going on anyway) |
| 00:50.05 | Stanzilla | "64-bit native code will never go through the WOW64 layer. The current guess is that this change might be for hypervisor support, as going through an int 2e handler makes adding code to support that easier." |
| 00:58.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 01:10.51 | *** join/#wowuidev fatguylaughing (~fatguylau@ip68-12-4-227.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 01:11.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 01:13.47 | Elmoe | so this is odd apparently I pushed a change yesterday that causes some WoW clients to crash |
| 01:13.53 | Elmoe | how is it even possible that an add-on can crash WoW?? |
| 01:14.06 | Elmoe | everyone ever experience something like this before? |
| 01:15.03 | Mr_Rabies | you definitely can crash the game with addons, but it seems exceedingly rare |
| 01:15.22 | tz | I used to be able to crash it by setting the encounter journal difficulty to something different, then requesting information that wasn't available for that difficulty |
| 01:16.00 | tz | may well still be able to do it that way, fixed the issue and it went away |
| 01:16.25 | *** join/#wowuidev mckenziemc (~Mark@104-51-145-162.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:20.17 | Elmoe | the only thing I can think of is I re-enabled the monochrome font hints due to user request |
| 01:20.32 | Elmoe | they had been disabled since MoP beta for causing client crashes so maybe they are still broken |
| 01:20.59 | Elmoe | but otherwise the changes in this release were so minor I have no clue how it could be causing a client crash |
| 01:22.47 | Mr_Rabies | what addon? |
| 01:22.56 | Elmoe | VuhDo |
| 01:23.03 | Mr_Rabies | ahh |
| 01:23.24 | Elmoe | outside of the monochrome font hints though the changes in the last release were trivial stuff though |
| 01:23.31 | Elmoe | no clue how that could crash the client for some people |
| 01:23.53 | Mr_Rabies | haven't heard anything from my guildmates but it has been only one day since the update |
| 01:24.05 | Elmoe | its just a few people |
| 01:24.07 | Mr_Rabies | i think our healers use vuhdo, i forget |
| 01:24.09 | Elmoe | but more than 1 |
| 01:24.15 | Elmoe | for 99% of people its fine I'm sure |
| 01:24.40 | Mr_Rabies | well that one guy's client is crushing, not crashing :v |
| 01:24.43 | Elmoe | I have the beta in testing for a month and no one reported anything but the beta only gets ~3-5k downloads |
| 01:24.57 | Elmoe | haha yeah I saw the crushing |
| 01:25.27 | Mr_Rabies | i just use clique with the default raid frames but i'm not a career healer |
| 01:25.34 | Mr_Rabies | i just throw out heals while dpsing as feral :v |
| 01:25.58 | Elmoe | I've got an alpha out where I backed out those monochrome font changes |
| 01:26.06 | Elmoe | hopefully someone who is crashing will test it soon and let me know |
| 01:26.21 | Elmoe | just so weird I've never seen an addon crash wow before |
| 01:26.45 | Mr_Rabies | one of mine was crashing wow back in wrath, but i forget what and how |
| 01:27.53 | Mr_Rabies | i'll give it a shot next time i log in and see if i can get it to crash |
| 01:27.59 | Mr_Rabies | (or crush) |
| 01:28.14 | Elmoe | hah thanks |
| 01:28.53 | mckenziemc | icehud did at one point if you entered/left an instance while in combat |
| 01:29.08 | mckenziemc | something to do with text display getting a nil parameter i think |
| 01:29.12 | mckenziemc | but that was way back in wrath |
| 01:32.08 | Mr_Rabies | where's the monochrome font setting? |
| 01:33.44 | Mr_Rabies | ah yep |
| 01:33.51 | Mr_Rabies | found it |
| 01:33.56 | Mr_Rabies | crashes the game |
| 01:34.05 | Mr_Rabies | when i change anything to monochrome font |
| 01:34.46 | Mr_Rabies | on a fresh install of vuhdo, game loaded fine with default settings |
| 01:34.52 | Mr_Rabies | change it to mono, instant crash |
| 01:34.58 | Elmoe | ok so thats it |
| 01:35.01 | Elmoe | can you try the alpha now? |
| 01:35.10 | Elmoe | I commented out the monochrome font hints |
| 01:35.18 | Elmoe | so its still that same bug from MoP beta |
| 01:35.22 | Elmoe | good game Blizz |
| 01:35.29 | Elmoe | way to leave in a bug that was reported years ago hah |
| 01:35.41 | Mr_Rabies | sure |
| 01:35.48 | Mr_Rabies | i didn't even ahve to restart the game or anything |
| 01:35.54 | Mr_Rabies | just change over to mono and immediate crash |
| 01:36.10 | Elmoe | yeah works fine for me but I guess some clients still crash |
| 01:36.23 | Elmoe | just sucks because some users want to use it |
| 01:36.28 | Elmoe | but blame blizz I guess |
| 01:36.36 | Mr_Rabies | must be some kinda font loading bug? |
| 01:37.01 | Elmoe | yeah I dunno works great for me but obviously still broken for some users |
| 01:37.18 | Elmoe | what version of DX do you use for your client? |
| 01:37.23 | Elmoe | or are you using opengl renderer? |
| 01:37.57 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, changing it to mono doesn't do anything now on the alpha |
| 01:38.03 | Mr_Rabies | running DX11 mode |
| 01:38.06 | Elmoe | ok cool thank you so much for testing |
| 01:38.08 | Mr_Rabies | in win7 64 bit |
| 01:38.18 | Elmoe | what gpu? |
| 01:40.23 | Mr_Rabies | Nvidia GTX 780 |
| 01:40.39 | Elmoe | so weird |
| 01:40.53 | Mr_Rabies | running wow in 64 bit mode ofc |
| 01:41.13 | Elmoe | same for me except running 770s |
| 01:41.35 | Elmoe | thanks a ton though I'll push the fix to release now |
| 01:46.57 | Stanzilla | Elmoe: you have to use MONOCHROMEOUTLINE instead of MONORCHROME |
| 01:47.01 | Stanzilla | then it works and does not crash |
| 01:47.26 | Elmoe | huh ok |
| 01:47.40 | Elmoe | thanks so much I will give that a try |
| 01:49.35 | Stanzilla | Elmoe: I had it backwards, it's OUTLINEMONOCHROME |
| 01:49.57 | Elmoe | Stanzilla: thanks. how did you figure this all out? |
| 01:50.36 | Stanzilla | I don't remember, it was 2 years ago :p |
| 01:50.45 | Elmoe | hah cool well much appreciated |
| 01:50.54 | Stanzilla | you're welcome |
| 01:51.04 | Elmoe | I don't use pixel fonts myself but a few users want to |
| 02:01.02 | Mr_Rabies | i want my healybar text to look like castlevania or i'll leave nasty comments on your addon page |
| 02:01.05 | Arrowmaster | i have new corporate overlords now and am supposed to be getting an offer letter from new parent company with undisclosed pay raise tomorrow |
| 02:01.20 | Mr_Rabies | it's gonna be like |
| 02:01.28 | Arrowmaster | i probably should not be looking at pay rate info online, probably setting myself up for disappointment |
| 02:01.31 | Mr_Rabies | CONGRATULATIONS %NAMEFIELD |
| 02:02.17 | mckenziemc | sets Arrowmaster up for an arrow to the knee. |
| 02:02.25 | Arrowmaster | i should post something on glassdoor to get an account and see all the data |
| 02:02.51 | Mr_Rabies | YOU HAVE EARNED A PAY RAISE IN THE FORM OF [-45%]. THANK YOU FOR YOUR %SACRIFICE |
| 02:02.54 | Torhal | Arrowmaster: No BlizzCon this year, eh? |
| 02:03.05 | Arrowmaster | no vacation days |
| 02:03.11 | Torhal | Call in dead? |
| 02:03.23 | Arrowmaster | and not a lot of money saved up yet, i keep spending it on other hobbies |
| 02:03.24 | Primer | Torhal, you using HBD-Pins? |
| 02:03.33 | Torhal | Primer: I am in Archy. |
| 02:03.33 | Primer | I'm unsure how to invoke it |
| 02:03.44 | Primer | local HereBeDragons = LibStub("HereBeDragons-1.0") |
| 02:03.47 | Primer | was simple enough |
| 02:03.49 | Arrowmaster | and using what little comp days i get from working holidays on those other hobbies |
| 02:04.01 | Mr_Rabies | is there a file i can change MONOCHROME to OUTLINEMONOCHROME in or is it more complex than that, Elmoe? |
| 02:04.05 | Mr_Rabies | just to test it out? |
| 02:04.06 | Primer | but pins...what I have doesn't work |
| 02:04.22 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: if you just grep for MONOCHROME you can find it |
| 02:04.28 | Torhal | First argument is the object that is storing the pins. |
| 02:04.36 | Torhal | For me, it's the digsite object. |
| 02:04.39 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: its only used in 3 files, 2 in VuhDO and 1 in VuhDo Options and I've got them commented out for now |
| 02:04.48 | Mr_Rabies | alrighty, i'll see what i can find |
| 02:04.51 | Torhal | Primer: HereBeDragonsPins:AddMinimapIconMF(self, self.mapIconFrame, self.mapID, self.level, self.coordX, self.coordY, true) |
| 02:04.53 | Elmoe | thanks much appreciated |
| 02:05.00 | Torhal | That's in Digsite:EnableMapIcon |
| 02:05.02 | Mr_Rabies | i'm not a coder or anything but i do have notepad++ and i'll go digging lol |
| 02:05.07 | Primer | Torhal: I'm talking about instantiating pins |
| 02:05.16 | Arrowmaster | Torhal: i mean i were to somehow win a ticket giveaway contest i could probably find a way to get the days off |
| 02:05.18 | Primer | local HereBeDragonsPins = LibStub("HereBeDragons-Pins-1.0") <-- doesn't work |
| 02:05.31 | Elmoe | speaking of Blizzcon is there any sort of add-on related meetup there? |
| 02:05.36 | Primer | I confess...I program by instinct...and example |
| 02:05.42 | Arrowmaster | Elmoe: many |
| 02:05.44 | Primer | I tend to not understand exactly what I'm doing |
| 02:06.00 | Torhal | Primer: That line you pasted just said "Give me an object that is this library" |
| 02:06.03 | Mr_Rabies | there's usually booze involved at the addon meetups as i understand it |
| 02:06.18 | Elmoe | Arrowmaster: how does one find out about such things? this will be our second year in a row going but didn't stumble across anything addon related last year |
| 02:06.46 | Arrowmaster | Elmoe: the will be an addon author dinner posted on wowinterface forums |
| 02:06.47 | Torhal | Then you do: HereBeDragonsPins:AddMinimapIconMF(storageObject, iconObject, mapID, mapLevel, x, y) |
| 02:07.01 | Primer | Torhal: right, but it seems that line fails |
| 02:07.04 | Primer | sec, let me get a trace |
| 02:07.12 | Arrowmaster | whos got a glassdoor account |
| 02:07.55 | Primer | I ended up getting sucked into Ashran in the hopes of getting a flight form book to look into an issue with GoGo Mount |
| 02:08.07 | Primer | ok, wtf |
| 02:08.13 | Mr_Rabies | ashran is the worst thing |
| 02:08.13 | Primer | I swear I got an error on that line before |
| 02:08.18 | Primer | reloaded and now it's fine |
| 02:08.40 | Mr_Rabies | i want to like it but absolutely nothing about the design of the place tells you what you're supposed to be doing at any point |
| 02:08.47 | Primer | heh, and my addon "works" after just changing out the code for the first time |
| 02:08.51 | Primer | which in itself is a first! |
| 02:09.00 | Primer | except it's showing world coords, not zone |
| 02:09.01 | Mr_Rabies | with old AV the quest givers made it super easy to tell what you're supposed to be doing |
| 02:09.15 | Mr_Rabies | either pvping or doing the quest stuff and helping out with that stuff |
| 02:09.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowh (~bob913@135-23-187-234.cpe.pppoe.ca) |
| 02:09.21 | Arrowmaster | like vanilla old? |
| 02:09.27 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: if you find anything please comment in this ticket http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/vuhdo/tickets/507-monochrome-option-broke/ |
| 02:09.44 | Mr_Rabies | what files have the option? i'm having a hell of a time finding it lol |
| 02:09.53 | Elmoe | grep is your friend haha |
| 02:10.07 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: VuhDoGuiToolbox.lua |
| 02:10.42 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: VuhDoOptions/VuhDoLookAndFeelStandardFont.lua and VuhDoPanelRedraw.lua |
| 02:10.49 | Primer | ok, swapped out for the correct function and that should do it. Easiest library change ever! |
| 02:11.00 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: basically anywhere you see a conditional around USE_MONO |
| 02:11.50 | Mr_Rabies | i'm not familiar with grep :X i'm not a coder, i just feel comfortable enough editing the lua files once i find em to see since it is crashing for me, uncommenting, etc |
| 02:11.51 | Primer | doh, there's no option for precision in GetPlayerZonePosition |
| 02:12.05 | Primer | I kinda want it up to 1 decimal place |
| 02:12.07 | Mr_Rabies | i guess i could say i can read code but i can't write it, if that makes sense? |
| 02:12.17 | Primer | notes that in his lengthy email to nevcairiel |
| 02:12.24 | Mr_Rabies | i can sorta tell what functions, etc do, but i couldn't write anything functional |
| 02:12.29 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: grep is just a command that lets you search files for a particular pattern |
| 02:12.38 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: similar to the 'find' feature you probably have in notepad++ |
| 02:12.44 | Mr_Rabies | ah, i'm sure there's a solution for that for windows |
| 02:13.02 | mckenziemc | cygwin :) |
| 02:13.04 | Elmoe | yeah I just use cygwin and get all the gnu tools when I am forced to code in windows |
| 02:13.04 | Torhal | WinGrep |
| 02:13.06 | Mr_Rabies | i was just cherrypicking individual files that i figured would handle font stuff and coming up with nothing using Find |
| 02:13.10 | Torhal | Or what mckenziemc said. |
| 02:13.26 | mckenziemc | MS-Torhal |
| 02:13.38 | Primer | Elmoe: hear hear |
| 02:13.41 | mckenziemc | MS Bob rebranded |
| 02:13.46 | Primer | I run more terminals in windows than anything else |
| 02:13.53 | Primer | even to do file operations |
| 02:14.05 | Elmoe | I'm sad to say I finally broke down and built a windows pc for gaming several years back |
| 02:14.11 | Primer | same |
| 02:14.15 | Elmoe | it just got too frustrating fighting with wine breaking after every wow patch |
| 02:14.20 | Primer | I'm not the Linux zealot I once was |
| 02:14.26 | Primer | heh |
| 02:14.31 | Primer | Elmoe: it broke today! |
| 02:14.32 | mckenziemc | i need to figure out why i couldn't get Xen to work last time :( |
| 02:14.38 | Primer | apt-get upgrade, wine busted, downgraded |
| 02:14.48 | Primer | Elmoe: I'm at work and I only have Linux |
| 02:14.57 | Primer | I'M NOT BEING ELITIST! |
| 02:15.01 | Primer | For those in doubt |
| 02:15.09 | Elmoe | yeah my work is all Linux too thank god |
| 02:15.26 | mckenziemc | you play wow at work? |
| 02:16.03 | Primer | indeed! |
| 02:16.06 | Primer | it's fucking great |
| 02:16.19 | Primer | Linux daniel 3.13.0-24-generic #47-Ubuntu SMP Fri May 2 23:30:00 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 02:16.37 | Primer | I first installed Linux....20 years ago... |
| 02:16.49 | Primer | and yes, I'm old |
| 02:16.53 | Torhal | 23 here... |
| 02:16.54 | Torhal | >.> |
| 02:16.56 | Torhal | <.< |
| 02:17.02 | Primer | 47 here |
| 02:17.07 | Primer | and I know...I don't act it |
| 02:17.07 | mckenziemc | that might be around the time i first used MS-DOS, Primer |
| 02:17.10 | mckenziemc | i was six |
| 02:17.21 | Torhal | No, I meant I installed Linux for the first time 23 years ago. |
| 02:17.23 | Mr_Rabies | aha |
| 02:17.26 | Mr_Rabies | wingrep works |
| 02:17.27 | Mr_Rabies | :D |
| 02:17.34 | Primer | Torhal: you're my hero |
| 02:17.37 | Torhal | I think it was Yggdrasil? |
| 02:17.45 | Primer | Mine was slack 3.0 |
| 02:17.59 | Amarande | hmm, I'm a bit foggy when I first tried Linux |
| 02:18.02 | Torhal | Yeah, Yggdrasil it was. |
| 02:18.03 | Amarande | I do remember it was slack 3.1, though |
| 02:18.06 | Elmoe | wow that is impressive |
| 02:18.11 | Elmoe | I definitely was not using Linux in 1992 |
| 02:18.21 | Primer | Well, placing icons on the map isn't working |
| 02:18.22 | Elmoe | what kernel version was that even |
| 02:18.37 | Amarande | and that it was before 1998, because I remember in 1998 I was trying Debian 1.3, and that had not been my first install |
| 02:18.38 | Primer | mini or world |
| 02:18.40 | Torhal | 0.98.1 according to the Yggdrasil Wikipedia page. |
| 02:19.18 | Amarande | Still remember having this one argument about whether or not a portscan ought to be considered a flood attack and getting called an idiot for saying it was |
| 02:19.28 | Amarande | (mind you, the guy doing it to me was on a 512Kbps link and I was on a 28.8 ...) |
| 02:19.33 | mckenziemc | seems you haven't learned! |
| 02:19.43 | Elmoe | apparently in March 1992 was when Linux first got support for X windows even hah |
| 02:19.57 | Amarande | mckenziemc: erm, an automated flood of unwanted data from a substantially higher bandwidth pipe kind of ... is a flood attack LOL |
| 02:20.00 | Mr_Rabies | so just changing MONOCHROME to OUTLINEMONOCHROME should work, right? :O |
| 02:20.02 | Primer | yeah, other things aren't working too |
| 02:20.09 | Primer | guess I'll work on this when I get home |
| 02:20.12 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: you'll have to uncomment the lines too |
| 02:20.17 | Mr_Rabies | oh yeah that too |
| 02:20.17 | Amarande | Elmoe: remember when people would jump down people's throats for such minor faux pas as saying "X Windows"? :) |
| 02:20.19 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: meaning remove the -- at the start of the lines |
| 02:20.42 | Mr_Rabies | yup :D, i've got basically just enough coding knowledge to break things |
| 02:20.54 | Amarande | heh, I remember before I found linpeople (later openprojects, later freenode) |
| 02:20.59 | Amarande | Linux support IRC was *HARSH* |
| 02:21.03 | Elmoe | Amarande: fortunately no one I knew even knew what Linux was so I didn't get exposed to such nonsense hah |
| 02:21.22 | Mr_Rabies | i know enough to not feel like i'm in crazytown opening the lua files in notepad++ and know super, super basic stuff, but not enough to really fix things |
| 02:21.30 | Elmoe | I actually pronounced it Lie-nux initially because I had never heard someone speak the name out loud before |
| 02:21.57 | Primer | ok, looks like I'm going to have to refactor a few things to account for world coords vs. zone coords |
| 02:21.58 | mckenziemc | i was on 24.4k until 2012 :'( |
| 02:22.06 | mckenziemc | and that house currently has no internet... |
| 02:22.14 | Torhal | Primer: o.O |
| 02:22.30 | Mr_Rabies | i had to call a guy and make modem noises until tomorrow to get internet |
| 02:23.19 | Mr_Rabies | lets see if i broke something |
| 02:23.21 | Amarande | and Primer, how many times does ubuntu have to put x86_64 into the uname heh |
| 02:23.26 | Amarande | Linux kushiel 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u3 (2015-08-04) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 02:23.42 | Amarande | debian only has it once, even though I'm pretty sure canonical maintains the kernel packages debian uses :) |
| 02:23.44 | Cairenn | Puppies |
| 02:24.48 | Torhal | Primer: HBD:GetZoneCoordinatesFromWorld() is probably what you want. |
| 02:24.59 | mckenziemc | Cairenns! |
| 02:25.06 | mckenziemc | hugs Cairenn. |
| 02:25.24 | Cairenn | I was doing accounting on it when it was still called Unix/Zenix :p |
| 02:25.26 | Mr_Rabies | the change appears to be working, Elmoe |
| 02:25.33 | Cairenn | hugs mckenziemc |
| 02:25.37 | Mr_Rabies | it actually turns off antialiasing on text it seems, and it doesn't crash |
| 02:25.42 | Mr_Rabies | using OUTLINEMONOCHROME |
| 02:25.52 | Elmoe | yeah if you aren't using a pixel font it will just look like shit |
| 02:25.55 | Primer | Torhal: yeah, well, the old Astrolabe was zone-centric |
| 02:26.06 | Mr_Rabies | i can "feel" it changing, unlike when it was commented out |
| 02:26.09 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: now learn how to make a diff and attach it to that ticket :) |
| 02:26.12 | Torhal | Primer: This is either/or. |
| 02:26.13 | Mr_Rabies | and you can just tell it does nothing |
| 02:26.17 | Primer | yeah, I see that |
| 02:26.17 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 02:26.20 | Mr_Rabies | if only |
| 02:26.21 | Torhal | You're probably using the wrong method |
| 02:26.44 | Mr_Rabies | i was trying to work with the diff files when altoholic was outdated and community folks were fixing it up |
| 02:26.45 | Primer | but I can't change from zone to world or vice versa without changing a few other things |
| 02:26.48 | Mr_Rabies | and i never quite got it to work |
| 02:26.50 | Primer | for example I have a speed function |
| 02:26.51 | Torhal | Ah. |
| 02:26.57 | mckenziemc | the funny thing is |
| 02:26.58 | Primer | which had mixed zone/world coords now |
| 02:27.08 | mckenziemc | you could fix that altoholic bug by changing one line in LPT |
| 02:27.49 | mckenziemc | (wasn't LPT's fault though, i think they started checking for something that Altoholic had been doing wrong, though i'm not sure) |
| 02:28.51 | Amarande | Cairenn: Ouch XENIX, you got stuck with the Microsoft distribution :( |
| 02:29.55 | Cairenn | I really need to stop saying things like that, I give away my age every time. duh. |
| 02:29.56 | kd3 | wow... when a pressure cooker says 'you know what, I've had enough of your shit.' http://i.imgur.com/hWkRuR8.jpg |
| 02:30.10 | Cairenn | holy shit! |
| 02:30.16 | Dagmar | "Joggers detected." |
| 02:30.22 | Ressy | what the hell. |
| 02:30.30 | Torhal | I was terrorized with this today, Cairenn - http://i.imgur.com/gcHpSiM.gif |
| 02:30.42 | Cairenn | heh |
| 02:31.10 | Ressy | and you have 18. |
| 02:31.47 | Torhal | :/ |
| 02:31.52 | mckenziemc | just be glad you don't need to lick them to get them to poop Torhal |
| 02:31.58 | Torhal | :O |
| 02:32.03 | Elmoe | Torhal: haha so that truth |
| 02:32.04 | Dagmar | yarly |
| 02:32.11 | Elmoe | but we love the fur balls anyway |
| 02:32.12 | Primer | but cat buttholes are clean |
| 02:32.19 | Elmoe | Primer: only sometimes :p |
| 02:32.19 | Torhal | I beg to differ. |
| 02:32.21 | Amarande | ehh, germs having touched surfaces is easy enough to come to grips with |
| 02:32.32 | Amarande | especially when you consider that the vast majority of the cells in our own bodies actually don't belong to us |
| 02:32.36 | Elmoe | my cat sometimes has trouble with the pinch off and needs assistance |
| 02:32.41 | mckenziemc | Amarande having tainted logs isn't. |
| 02:32.54 | Primer | I have 4 cats and their buttholes are usually clean |
| 02:33.00 | Primer | the dog, on the other hand... |
| 02:33.03 | Amarande | mckenziemc: that's because addon taint is evil and annoying and the bane of addon designers and users the world over |
| 02:33.04 | mckenziemc | do you check? |
| 02:33.06 | Torhal | I can't believe what I started in here. |
| 02:33.12 | Primer | I also have a wife and 2 kids |
| 02:33.21 | Primer | Just in case someone thinks I'm a cat lady |
| 02:33.28 | Primer | anyhow, time to go home |
| 02:33.37 | Elmoe | take it easy |
| 02:33.37 | Dagmar | These cells are mine. ...and I suggest you start reading contracts more carefully. |
| 02:34.03 | Amarande | I have a fiancee, and we're avoiding the whole babies thing, we'll stick with cats :) |
| 02:34.17 | Amarande | Dagmar, did Microsoft gather your new addon in through the Windows 10 spy stuff and sell it to Ten Ton Hammer :P |
| 02:36.00 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: you still around bud? |
| 02:36.05 | Mr_Rabies | yup |
| 02:36.14 | Elmoe | ok I'm gonna push that change to an alpha in a few if you can test |
| 02:36.19 | Mr_Rabies | sure |
| 02:37.13 | Mr_Rabies | just lemme know |
| 02:37.25 | Elmoe | package is building ow |
| 02:37.27 | Elmoe | now |
| 02:37.35 | Mr_Rabies | i'll grab it from curse once it's up |
| 02:38.31 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: up now r128 |
| 02:40.16 | Mr_Rabies | testing it |
| 02:42.14 | Mr_Rabies | hmm, got disconnected when i went into the options but that could be coincidence |
| 02:43.58 | Mr_Rabies | seems to be working, fonts are suitably ugly |
| 02:44.12 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 02:44.17 | Mr_Rabies | no crashing, so that might be fixed if that was the only thing causing crashes |
| 02:46.05 | Mr_Rabies | weird that the monochrome thing only crashed on some clients, though? |
| 02:49.30 | ccox | Things that everyone should know, especially Shirik : https://designschool.canva.com/blog/typography-terms/?utm_source=FloatingBar&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DesignSchool |
| 02:50.18 | Mr_Rabies | i refuse to recognize a chart that makes the word "gadzook |
| 02:50.23 | Mr_Rabies | " into a technical term |
| 02:50.28 | Mr_Rabies | hello enter key how are you |
| 03:00.20 | mckenziemc | except i don't know why they decided font can refer to the file |
| 03:00.57 | Torhal | wonders if mckenziemc is a font of knowledge. |
| 03:01.06 | mckenziemc | from what i've heard it's supposed to refer to a particular combination of typeface and size |
| 03:01.11 | mckenziemc | that would be fount, Torhal |
| 03:01.18 | Torhal | Wow, you are! |
| 03:01.22 | Torhal | goes to bed. |
| 03:01.38 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 03:04.03 | mckenziemc | so, how is a fresh level 100 PTR character supposed to get to the garrison |
| 03:04.09 | mckenziemc | there isn't even a flight path o.o |
| 03:04.22 | mckenziemc | oh, got to do the whole starter chain? |
| 03:12.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 03:13.37 | znf | So, if you get a /64 ipv6 block, how would you alocate it to your lan? |
| 03:13.40 | znf | Should I do /96? |
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| 03:23.05 | znf | Yup. No idea how radvd or dhcpv6 work |
| 03:23.18 | Amarande | znf: "standard" is not to go any smaller than /80 |
| 03:23.30 | Amarande | because the standard lower 48 bits in ipv6 are your MAC |
| 03:24.25 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: yeah totally weird no clue why it worked on most clients but crashed others |
| 03:24.29 | Elmoe | Mr_Rabies: thanks a ton for testing |
| 03:24.58 | znf | ok, I've started earlier looking into nginx |
| 03:25.04 | znf | and I somehow set up a ipv6 tunnel at home |
| 03:29.58 | znf | Now; |
| 03:30.21 | znf | If I put some configuration directives for nginx in a http {} block, all server{} blocks will inherit those, right? |
| 04:02.11 | znf | And ofcourse, ipv6 breaks up while I do testing on nginx+ipv6 |
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| 04:04.51 | Fisker | rekt |
| 04:06.58 | mckenziemc | Fiskerd |
| 04:07.14 | mckenziemc | not that Fisker wasn't already a daemon |
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| 05:43.01 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 6.2.x ToC: 60200 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl |
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| 06:10.53 | ccox | Mr_Rabies: itâs called QA or QE - and you can do that for a job |
| 06:11.48 | Mr_Rabies | but most QA is basically lifeless and you're barely paid for an existance i'd argue against calling living |
| 06:12.10 | ccox | then you havenât done QA on a decent product at a decent company |
| 06:12.40 | ccox | QE are usually more active (Quality Engineers) - doing more scripting, more unit tests, and working with developers to make sure things work well |
| 06:13.39 | Mr_Rabies | i've only heard horror stories about QA, very very little good |
| 06:14.00 | Mr_Rabies | long days of repeating the same process over and over and over and over and over trying to replicate obscure bugs, only to be ignored and see it in the final product anyway |
| 06:14.20 | ccox | You could hear horror stories about development as well, or product management, or (shudder) sales |
| 06:14.26 | ccox | it all depends on the company and the team |
| 06:15.59 | mckenziemc | appoints ccox to Pointy-Haired Boss's team |
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| 06:16.37 | Fisker | hacks canada and hugs Cairenn |
| 06:16.47 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker :) |
| 06:17.18 | mckenziemc | makes Fisker Wally's assistant. |
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| 08:52.09 | karl_w_w | i just found out that in android chrome if you tap and then hold you can zoom in and out |
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| 12:14.57 | mitch0 | superb... now opera and chrome share (some) settings... (like proxy) |
| 12:15.02 | mitch0 | why?! :( |
| 12:24.11 | nebula | hasn't opera just been a rekinned chrome for awhile now? |
| 12:24.16 | nebula | reskinned* |
| 12:29.48 | nevcairiel | chrome just uses the system proxy, doesnt it |
| 12:29.57 | nevcairiel | on windows, anyway |
| 12:40.11 | Kalroth | yup |
| 12:56.49 | Simca | I think every remotely popular browser for Windows does |
| 12:57.13 | nevcairiel | firefox didnt for a long time, did they change |
| 12:58.19 | Simca | it still has its own settings for it, but the default is 'use system proxy settings' and everything is greyed out until you uncheck that |
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| 14:38.59 | Stanzilla | Shirik: For the small number of people asking why Chrome checks signatures on the 64-bit syscall stubs, it's because doing so significantly mitigates issues from third-party software hooking inside Chrome's sandboxed processes. Whereas on 32-bit Windows we're forced to use much more permissive hooking, and as a result we see far more issues due to malfunctioning third-party software such as AV or other utilities that: break ASLR, leak priv |
| 14:39.00 | Stanzilla | ileged objects, or just introduce general instability that leads to very high crash rates inside our sandboxed processes. |
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| 15:08.08 | VIad | blizz. plz. 3 ship raid chests. 3 useless cloaks. :( |
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| 15:09.43 | VIad | wowhead says the chest drops anything from hellfire but I keep getting cloaks :p |
| 15:10.51 | nevcairiel | i got one half-useful item, and like insta vendors |
| 15:11.16 | nevcairiel | i had all my luck in blackrock and highmaul chests |
| 15:11.19 | nevcairiel | getting trinkets and everything |
| 15:13.48 | VIad | to be fair, only upgrades are like tier sets for me and weapon and doubt those drop in the chests. :p |
| 15:14.44 | nevcairiel | they dont |
| 15:14.58 | nevcairiel | i could still use a trinket or two and a few non-sets from the last couple bosses |
| 15:15.18 | nevcairiel | but i keep getting 705 shit |
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| 15:46.20 | Shirik | oo |
| 15:46.40 | Shirik | singapore president just dissolved parliament |
| 15:52.45 | Shirik | "Zhao was transferring to a Wenzhou flight at Beijing Airport at noon on August 21 when she was stopped at airport security. A worker told the woman in her forties that she was not able to bring the imported cognac through the security checkpoint in her carry-on. As it was too late to transfer the cognac to her checked-in luggage, Zhao did what any responsible person that hates wasting food would do: she sat down in |
| 15:52.45 | Shirik | a corner and drank the entire bottle of cognac herself." |
| 16:02.52 | Stanzilla | Shirik: did you read what I pasted you? |
| 16:03.02 | Shirik | yeah I'm not sure how I feel about it |
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| 17:18.01 | Hazal | Any good guides or examples of when to use Do blocks and when to not? |
| 17:18.38 | Hazal | I have seen several addons have like a lot of code inside a Do block, I'm curious about the advantage of doing this and when to do it. |
| 17:21.05 | kd3 | do is part of the syntax of loops. it's the the same as an opening { |
| 17:21.14 | kd3 | http://dpaste.com/1NKZZH3 |
| 17:22.30 | Hazal | Yes I understand that it is used for while loops but I see "Do" blocks without any syntax beforehand |
| 17:23.07 | kd3 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23895406/why-use-a-do-end-block-in-lua |
| 17:24.55 | Hazal | Okay so it's basically to limit to scope of variables withing a block? |
| 17:25.08 | Hazal | *to limit the scope of variables withing a do block |
| 17:25.16 | kd3 | more or less |
| 17:25.26 | Hazal | Okay, thanks for clearing that up :( |
| 17:25.29 | Hazal | :) |
| 17:29.05 | kd3 | np |
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| 17:58.11 | fewyn | does anyone else have a problem when clicking on the shipyard command table that it doesn't pop up? i'm not getting any lua errors |
| 17:58.39 | nevcairiel | that happens sometimes to some people |
| 17:58.42 | nevcairiel | just relog |
| 17:58.50 | nevcairiel | sometimes moving away from it and back also helps |
| 17:59.02 | fewyn | it seems to happen every time, to fix it all i even have to do is click on the garrison mission table then click back |
| 17:59.12 | fewyn | was just curious if it was just me or if there was some kind of real fix |
| 18:13.58 | kd3 | oops. archi isn't spawning in LFR |
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| 18:23.26 | nevcairiel | thats why we superior folk hired a continent as beta testers |
| 18:28.44 | Dagmar | heheh |
| 18:28.52 | Dagmar | Thanks, Europe! |
| 18:50.55 | Stanzilla | Shirik Fisker Chrome dev now works on the insider build |
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| 18:52.04 | nevcairiel | did they remove the delegate shit yet |
| 18:52.08 | nevcairiel | as expected it re-installed itself |
| 18:52.29 | Stanzilla | no, not yet removed |
| 18:52.41 | Stanzilla | but disabled I think |
| 18:53.10 | Stanzilla | well that's two things I think, they disabled the ability to launch in "metro/chrome os" mode |
| 18:53.20 | Stanzilla | which was the reason why delegate_execute was there |
| 18:53.26 | Stanzilla | but delegate itself is still there |
| 18:54.00 | nevcairiel | as long as it doesnt install itself as the handler anymore so my urls from irc work properly.. |
| 18:54.34 | Stanzilla | yeah don't think that's gone yet |
| 18:54.42 | Stanzilla | but I can ctrl f the changelog |
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| 18:56.17 | Stanzilla | doesnt look like anything changed there this build |
| 18:58.17 | zenzelezz | "There are a lot of MOBAs but which one is best? Perhaps if they faced off in some kind of arena, maybe five at a time on each side..." |
| 19:11.59 | Amarande | zenzelezz: and then these contests of contests can be faced off 5v5 ... |
| 19:12.27 | Amarande | Stanzilla: why would anyone want to launch a browser in metro mode anyway :S |
| 19:12.49 | Amarande | hell browser choice is a particular reason not to want to see metro/windows store succed |
| 19:12.51 | Amarande | *succeed |
| 19:19.02 | fewyn | so how's everyone doing today? |
| 19:23.26 | Shirik | I just spent about $3000 on radio equipment \o/ |
| 19:23.28 | Amarande | good :) |
| 19:23.29 | Shirik | so either really happy or really sad |
| 19:23.31 | Shirik | not sure |
| 19:23.35 | Amarande | it's tuesday, it's my traditional day off |
| 19:30.10 | fewyn | i wish i had 3000 to spend on stuff |
| 19:30.24 | fewyn | i'd probably just use it to catch up on debt |
| 19:33.26 | Amarande | yeah, I need to get rid of this credit card debt myself |
| 19:49.12 | Shirik | there's always https://jobs-insitu.icims.com/jobs/2580/sr.-software-engineer-4--embedded-networking---hood-river%2c-or/job |
| 19:52.29 | fewyn | ianad |
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| 20:16.59 | fewyn | i wonder how bad archimonde lfr is going to be |
| 20:20.26 | Amarande | it's lfr, how bad can it be |
| 20:20.49 | Amarande | especially with the fact that you get plenty of skilled players these days who are still nonetheless stuck with LFR due to gearism :P |
| 20:22.05 | fewyn | Amarande is always a debbie downer |
| 20:22.23 | [TOM_RUS] | stack before shadowfel burst goes out, that's only thing I can think of that can wipe, but that probably nerfed to the ground |
| 20:23.20 | Amarande | heh I've really never quite understood why WoW has such an issue with gearism |
| 20:23.25 | Amarande | it seems to be about the only MMO that does, though |
| 20:23.53 | Amarande | SW:TOR is pretty demanding but that's because the content pretty much actually calls for such a level of gear |
| 20:24.22 | Amarande | LOTRO pretty much doesn't even check people's gear in PUGs (though given how often I see LOTRO PUGs actually manage to complete the instance maybe they should, heh) |
| 20:24.26 | nevcairiel | if you raided any non-lfr content on a regular basis, you never have to do LFR in WoD |
| 20:24.36 | karl_w_w | how to get rid of credit card debt, step 1: don't get a credit card |
| 20:24.40 | nevcairiel | the gear is so much lower that its just not necessary |
| 20:24.47 | Amarande | and in FFXIV, not only is gear very much second fiddle to player skill, but overgearing can even be detrimental in some cases |
| 20:26.37 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I'm hearing of pugs already expecting you to have 690+ to be able to do normal (HFC LFR only gets you up to 685) |
| 20:27.15 | nevcairiel | of course, noone wants to carry the scrubs through a raid |
| 20:27.19 | nevcairiel | get a guild =p |
| 20:27.42 | Amarande | karl_w_w: I suppose you don't travel much or buy anything particularly expensive |
| 20:28.01 | nevcairiel | I have a credit card for traveling, doesnt mean I have credit card debt |
| 20:28.13 | nevcairiel | but of course, I'm not in the US, where having debt is apparently considered quite normal |
| 20:30.03 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I'm also guessing your WoW social scene is a lot more thriving than it is in the US, too |
| 20:30.14 | nevcairiel | everyone starting their professional lives with tens of thousands in student loans, or some shit |
| 20:30.17 | nevcairiel | just not a thing here :D |
| 20:30.23 | Amarande | in the US it's practically become a single player game with chat, which makes it rather hard to get to know folks well enough to want to guild with them heh |
| 20:31.06 | nevcairiel | i dunno, i never parttake in trade or general chat, its usually full of morons |
| 20:31.16 | nevcairiel | but if you want a guild, there is ways to find them |
| 20:31.42 | nevcairiel | I just found this one last autumn, a month or so before WoD |
| 20:32.34 | karl_w_w | I do this thing called saving up money for the things I want to buy :P |
| 20:32.42 | nevcairiel | that too |
| 20:33.06 | nevcairiel | The only thing I would go in dept for is buying a house or apartment or something, because these things are f'ing expensive |
| 20:34.09 | Amarande | I wouldn't be surprised if the welfare state nature of the USA is a major reason that debt is used so much, too |
| 20:34.26 | Amarande | trouble is, if you're working class, you often are going to need benefits to supplement your income |
| 20:34.48 | Amarande | the game is actually rigged that way, that's one of the big reasons there's such a push to raise the minimum wage |
| 20:34.52 | nevcairiel | Hey fellow europeans, look at this guy, he thinks the US is a welfare state =p |
| 20:35.11 | Amarande | because people are sick of companies paying people next to nothing and then expecting the taxpayers to pick up the rest of the tab for the workers' needs through food stamps and housing assistance and such |
| 20:36.04 | Amarande | except there's the other shoe, a lot of those benefits have not just income tests but asset tests (I'm presuming so you can't win the lotto, take the Lump Sum, and then go "guys I'm poor I have no income can I has free?" and take the system for a ride ... mind you, the rich take the country for a ride enough as it is but that's a different matter :P) |
| 20:36.31 | Amarande | save up your scraps for something nice? oh no no no, now you've got too much money and you'll be expected to shell out those savings because now you can PAY for those needs! |
| 20:36.44 | Amarande | so instead people end up being pushed to use debt and monthly payments |
| 20:37.24 | Amarande | nevcairiel: does europe have things like that too, or is that a uniquely american meanness? |
| 20:38.07 | phelps | from my conversations with my EU friends, they have much better welfare than we do |
| 20:38.52 | nevcairiel | if you run on welfare and get into some extra money somehow, over a certain value you are of course expected to use it to pay for your life instead of "something nice" |
| 20:39.42 | phelps | his welfare amounts to something like $35k/year and to get foodstamps in the US you have to make pretty much less than $20k |
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| 20:42.36 | Amarande | nevcairiel: this still rather counterproductively encourages people to incur debt |
| 20:42.58 | Amarande | people buy something on debt, then the cost of it transforms into "making good on the bills" and then the bank account is empty at the end of the month so they're still "properly poor" |
| 20:43.03 | nevcairiel | people without money wont get a chance to make any large debt around here |
| 20:43.12 | Amarande | people responsibly save up for something instead, it's "you have too much money in the bank and fail the asset test" |
| 20:43.36 | nevcairiel | we dont get pre-approved credit cards by the dozen in the mail ?ü |
| 20:43.38 | nevcairiel | =p |
| 20:43.54 | Amarande | but yeah, the US welfare system is often pretty uniquely mean |
| 20:44.16 | nevcairiel | in fact the majority of people dont even have credit cards, since the only time you really need them is for traveling outside of europe |
| 20:44.27 | Amarande | there are some states where politicians hear so much of the "but he/she has an IPHONE on FOOD STAMPS! ABUSE!" that they're practically calling for military barracks level of austerity for the poor |
| 20:44.27 | nevcairiel | or sometimes buying online |
| 20:44.46 | Amarande | like, oh, you had some nice things and fell on hard times? throw them in the garbage please, then we'll talk |
| 20:45.01 | Kalroth | yeah, i use my mastercard like uhhh, once a year |
| 20:45.10 | Kalroth | visa debit card otherwise |
| 20:45.48 | phelps | I don't think its really possible for people in the US to get a credit card if they can't afford it at the time |
| 20:45.54 | nevcairiel | more interestingly, many places wont even accept credit cards around here, since there is higher fees on it than any of the alternatives |
| 20:46.06 | Kalroth | aye, nevcairiel |
| 20:46.08 | phelps | you might get yourself into debt after the fact, but, credit checks make getting one almost impossible |
| 20:46.22 | Kalroth | and the places that do, push the fee directly to customer and shows it clearly |
| 20:46.22 | Amarande | (seeing that these politicians tend to especially want to proscribe any kind of electronics/computers, and we all know how well those resell on the used market ... so pretty much yeah they are proposing systems that ask people who lose their jobs to literally throw away their belongings in order not to be considered too fatcat for foodstamps) |
| 20:47.22 | Amarande | computers pretty much depreciate almost as fast as toilet paper once used, heh |
| 20:47.46 | Amarande | phelps: yeah, that's the usual issue |
| 20:48.02 | Amarande | people get an income, get debt that's responsible under that income (as in they can meet the payments without undue hardship) |
| 20:48.07 | Amarande | then they have the rug pulled out from under them |
| 20:48.28 | Amarande | especially since e.g., business closings only require a 2 or 3 month notice to the workers |
| 20:48.28 | phelps | I don't have bad credit, I simply have no credit |
| 20:48.58 | phelps | I've paid off a financed motorcycle and have never had a late payment in my life |
| 20:49.02 | Amarande | then they can't clear the credit cards before the money dries up |
| 20:49.09 | phelps | I can't get a CC, not enough credit info |
| 20:49.32 | Amarande | plus most US states let employers give applicants the cold shoulder for having bad credit |
| 20:49.33 | kd3 | go to your bank, ask for a secured CC. just enough to start showing credit history |
| 20:50.34 | kd3 | use it for all your everyday expenses |
| 20:50.40 | Amarande | (only about 10 or so states restrict employers from such ... though I'm not sure how well it's enforced given that it seems practically an HR 101 topic these days "how to find an acceptable excuse to deny an applicant when the real reason you want to isn't allowed") |
| 20:50.43 | kd3 | pay it off every month |
| 20:51.13 | phelps | on the other side of this spectrum, my grandmother with a perfect credit score applied for a card to get $20 off her purchase at SamsClub and it came in the mail with an initial credit limit for $20k |
| 20:51.14 | phelps | :| |
| 20:51.30 | Amarande | phelps: well generally the minimum payment is fairly small even for rather large credit balances |
| 20:51.41 | fewyn | archmonde is interesting |
| 20:51.51 | phelps | how many mechanics are missing ? |
| 20:52.18 | Amarande | e.g., a $10k balance frequently only means a $220 or so minimum payment |
| 20:52.30 | phelps | thats a horrible idea though |
| 20:52.31 | Amarande | which is easy enough as long as you've got a reasonable job |
| 20:52.54 | phelps | I was just surprised that the limit was so high |
| 20:52.55 | kd3 | my minimum payment has been the same since I got my first real CC. $15/mo. even though my limit's 4x as high now |
| 20:53.14 | Amarande | trouble is when your job dries up without enough notice to gather up that $10k ... |
| 20:53.34 | phelps | well, she lives on dividends at this point |
| 20:53.34 | Amarande | especially with how long the time between jobs often is in the USA these days |
| 20:54.09 | phelps | my grandfather was very smart when he was young and made great investments |
| 20:54.18 | Amarande | hah, some cynics on economic news article comments are saying that eventually the american norm will be to file bankruptcy every 8 years or so (which is how often you're allowed to file personal bankruptcy in the USA) |
| 20:54.56 | Amarande | phelps: on the flip side, people like your grandparents are the reason today's working people are getting squeezed like pouches of financial Capri Sun |
| 20:55.18 | Amarande | phelps: because "the elderly are depending on it" is the justification for enforcing that companies have to put their shareholders above all and screw the workers |
| 20:55.36 | phelps | I suppose so, and its Wal-Mart |
| 20:55.51 | phelps | which even pushes your point further to the truth |
| 20:56.00 | Amarande | if it was really just a bunch of rich bankers we'd probably see a lot more torches and pitchforks against that policy, but the trouble it's rich bankers ... *and* people's grandpas' pension fund |
| 20:56.34 | Amarande | Plenty of sentiment out there against bankers. Not really much against little old ladies and retirees. :P |
| 20:56.49 | phelps | I believe he purchased his shares of walmart when it was under $1 |
| 20:57.14 | Amarande | yeah, that's another thing, the Baby Boomers pretty much had an optimal playing field |
| 20:58.14 | phelps | there have been 8 splits since he purchased, so I'm sure its a lot at this point |
| 20:58.17 | Amarande | and now they call Millennials "entitled" when they dare to feel they ought to be able to have similarly comfortable lives :P |
| 20:58.33 | Amarande | although actually it seems like Millennials are starting to get more respect thanks to marketing demographics |
| 20:58.40 | Amarande | it's us Gen X'ers who seem to have pretty much gotten the shaft |
| 20:59.11 | Amarande | was reading Mass Market Retailer (we get it delivered to work) the other day and they're going on about the demographic comparisons between Baby Boomers and Millennials |
| 20:59.20 | Amarande | there is literally not a damn peep about Gen X, we might as well just be Gen X'd-Out |
| 21:00.59 | Amarande | but yeah, criticising people for debt these days is basically criticising ordinary folks for not being economists |
| 21:01.13 | Amarande | since typically most folks were fine until the economy pulled the rug out from under them |
| 21:06.26 | Amarande | *blink* |
| 21:06.33 | Dagmar | Being deeply in debt to begin with isn't what I'd call "fine" |
| 21:06.46 | Amarande | when did they make it so you just had to click a token and immediately get a set piece? |
| 21:07.01 | Dagmar | "Pretending to own stuff" started becoming the standard way of living around the mid 90's |
| 21:07.33 | Amarande | Dagmar: I suspect excessively bubbly housing pricing became part of it |
| 21:07.44 | Dagmar | ...and people being dumb about finance. |
| 21:07.49 | Amarande | plus the fact that electronics became a standard creature comfort by 1995-2000 or so |
| 21:08.23 | Dagmar | "We'll help you buy a house, if you buy us two houses" is the way most mortgages work and people just believe the loan officer |
| 21:08.39 | Amarande | however, I doubt it'd be a good idea to go back to olden days where computers were a special perk for business people and the rich |
| 21:08.47 | Dagmar | If they had any sense theyd just save their cash until they can buy with half down instead of the minimum, and it radically reduces the amount of madness involved. |
| 21:09.16 | Amarande | mind you, mortgages are pretty much also becoming kind of an anachronism it seems |
| 21:09.32 | Amarande | the whole banks manipulating things so people mostly have to rent could actually be saner |
| 21:09.47 | Amarande | "we're going to have you pay this debt off over 30 years" |
| 21:10.12 | Amarande | these days we don't even know if civilisation as we know it will still exist in 30 years, let alone whether Joe Homeowner will still be in anything resembling a similar financial situation to when he signed the mortgage |
| 21:10.49 | Amarande | hell in some worst-case apocalypticist scenarios there might even not be a such thing as dollars in 30 years, let alone the ability to pay debts based on them :P |
| 21:12.18 | Amarande | actually yeah, technology has a huge effect on all this. you're culturally expected to own more things and meanwhile the economy is increasingly dynamic |
| 21:12.34 | Amarande | 30 years was pretty sane back in the day when you could expect that joe would work at that same factory pretty much his whole working life |
| 21:13.40 | Primer | Nowadays Joe is fucked |
| 21:14.05 | Dagmar | Amarande: It doesn't help that people get paid _far less_ than they did |
| 21:14.33 | Dagmar | An actual home is practically completely out of the question now for anyone who isn't upper middle class |
| 21:14.48 | Amarande | plus the pressure that places on prices if you want to be successful in the market |
| 21:14.54 | Amarande | people complain about video games costing $60 |
| 21:15.01 | Amarande | ... video games are actually cheaper now than they've ever been |
| 21:15.18 | Amarande | that registered version of DOOM that was $40 in 1993? no, actually that was more expensive ... $40 in 1993 is $65 now |
| 21:15.56 | Amarande | prices get lower. profits get lower. CEOs and bankers don't get any less greedy. and people make even less money. which makes them push for things to get even cheaper. |
| 21:15.56 | Primer | I make damn good money, and I can't afford to own. But a big part of my problem is the fact that I live in suburban Los Angeles, where a crappy 2 bedroom house sells for $700k |
| 21:16.08 | Primer | and a decent 2 bedroom house sells for $900k |
| 21:16.23 | Primer | I'm looking at moving elsewhere just to own |
| 21:16.48 | Amarande | Primer: well, that's also california, where the property tax rules strongly discourage people from moving, so there's probably lower supply -> higher prices |
| 21:17.21 | Amarande | and yet those property tax rules were passed with good intentions, it's so people's grandmas don't get tossed out onto skid row because of their house getting more valuable over the years |
| 21:18.21 | Amarande | Primer: that's also california, you might want to get out of there before it dries up |
| 21:18.26 | Amarande | and I don't mean the housing market |
| 21:18.35 | Primer | Amarande: don't forget higher demand |
| 21:18.44 | Amarande | didn't they say you've got about a year left there before the state runs out of water? |
| 21:19.17 | Primer | The weather people are predicting a powerful El Niño this coming winter |
| 21:19.27 | Primer | But yeah, if that doesn't happen, we're fucked |
| 21:19.35 | Dagmar | Finally it'll wipe LA off the map. :) |
| 21:19.37 | Amarande | Primer: for the sake of californians let's hope that's true and not just something that they were told to say to quell panic |
| 21:19.53 | Dagmar | Californians are silly about weather |
| 21:19.59 | Amarande | (remember, weather is about the only profession where analysts can be wrong 5 days a week and still stay employed, LOL) |
| 21:20.06 | Dagmar | MASSIVE DROUGHT? "Oh gosh my garden!" |
| 21:20.20 | Dagmar | Two inches of rain in San Francisco? "OH GOD RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!" |
| 21:20.43 | Amarande | Dagmar: well, in their defence, personal water usage in cali is a tiny percentage of the total usage, the gardens really *aren't* that huge of a water supply threat |
| 21:20.57 | Amarande | which is another thing, yeah, the blatant corporatism of the water conservation policies |
| 21:21.05 | Dagmar | Frankly, I think they should be hunting and lynching Nestle executives |
| 21:21.12 | Primer | You do realize that souther California is a desert, right? |
| 21:21.14 | Amarande | personal usage is a tiny percentage compared to industrial, especially those effing almond farmers |
| 21:21.37 | Primer | So if it rains a lot, shit happens |
| 21:21.39 | Amarande | but what happens? the farmers pretty much get a pass while the little guy is told to smell a little more and let their flowers go brown |
| 21:21.53 | Primer | It's not as bad when it happen farther north, as they're used to it |
| 21:22.27 | Amarande | I'll buy Italian amaretto, but eff if I'm going to buy Cali almondmilk, even though the time I tried it it was delish |
| 21:22.34 | Amarande | those farmers pretty much deserve to go under |
| 21:22.46 | Amarande | it takes absolutely ridiculous amounts of water to produce a single almond |
| 21:22.55 | Amarande | mediterranean? yeah they've got it. cali? hell no. |
| 21:25.35 | Amarande | Dagmar: yeah, it's a pity that Stouffer's mac and cheese is so much better than the competition :( |
| 21:26.03 | Amarande | it's about the only nestle product I never quite manage to stop buying |
| 21:26.20 | Dagmar | Well, Nestle are the people basically arguing that they should be able to bottle as much water as they want, and that the citizenry should have to pay a premium and have to be subject to restrictions. |
| 21:26.36 | Dagmar | Literally, because they make a more "profitable" use of the water. |
| 21:26.55 | Dagmar | Their viewpoint is so barren of morality I'm suprised they're not sacrificing virgins. |
| 21:27.41 | Amarande | Yeah, Brabeck has this idea that clean drinking water is not a human right |
| 21:27.51 | Dagmar | I think stabbing him should be a human right. |
| 21:28.02 | Dagmar | ...preferably with wooden stakes. |
| 21:31.10 | Amarande | nah, let him get stranded somewhere in Africa where dracuncliasis is still a problem and tell the swiss bank to 'accidentally' freeze his credit cards :) |
| 21:31.34 | Amarande | (don't google that if you're eating dinner btw) |
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| 21:33.13 | Amarande | the other nestle products I was big into were haagen dazs ice cream and digiorno pizzas, but they've pretty much managed to price those away from me |
| 21:33.44 | Amarande | seriously, $10 for a DiGiorno some places around here ... if I want to pay $10 for a friggin pizza I might as well just go to the pizza place |
| 21:34.41 | Amarande | and they hit Haagen Dazs with the shrink ray |
| 21:35.17 | Dagmar | You should see the "mouthful" sized Ben & Jerry's. ;) |
| 21:35.24 | Amarande | Heh, I've seen those :) |
| 21:35.44 | Amarande | A full size B&J's is still a pint though, whereas Nestle shrank the HD pints to 14oz |
| 21:36.01 | Amarande | I've quipped sometimes that eventually B&J's will become the best value in ice cream |
| 21:36.26 | Amarande | ... because eventually the other manufacturers will have managed to shrink their half gallons all the way to pints at the original half gallon prices |
| 21:36.31 | Amarande | while B&J's will be ... 'Still a Pint!' |
| 21:38.04 | Dagmar | I'm just waiting for the serving size notation on the side panel to start saying "Who are you kidding, really?" |
| 21:38.25 | Amarande | Yeah, who really eats a pint of B&Js at four separate sittings |
| 21:38.27 | Amarande | Get real :) |
| 21:38.27 | Dagmar | I buy them occasionally knowing full well they won't last the night. |
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| 23:31.07 | kd3 | wow, the headlines about the stock market today. almost like they're giving up or something 'rally goes up in smoke', 'rally goes poof' |
| 23:35.27 | Neffi | wait, what happened? |
| 23:39.18 | kd3 | yesterday was a bloodbath |
| 23:39.32 | kd3 | so today, the stock market opened up high, but wiped out the gains and closed down like 200 points |
| 23:41.31 | kd3 | the dow was up 400 points at one point |
| 23:41.40 | kd3 | good thing I'm not retiring any time soon |
| 23:42.02 | Amarande | and there's a reason day trading is considered a dubious enterprise, heh |
| 23:42.02 | Neffi | I know what these words mean but they are not meaningful to me whatsoever |
| 23:42.10 | Neffi | I thought maybe something real happened, like a fire |
| 23:42.28 | Amarande | these single-day events tend to matter fairly little in the long run for folks who actually hold onto their stuff long term |
| 23:42.32 | foxlit | the perpetual inflation machine is broken, Neffi. How will humanity survive? |
| 23:42.52 | Amarande | the casino investors who are like "oh hey, we'll make lots of money quick!" well, there's a reason why it's compared to a casino :p |
| 23:42.53 | Neffi | it's a mystery to us all |
| 23:42.54 | foxlit | fires, by comparison, are far more boring: humanity calls firefighters and the thing is fixed in minutes. |
| 23:42.57 | Neffi | I'm surprised we got this far man |
| 23:43.01 | kd3 | eh, most of my net worth is in equities now that I've got a real job and my debts are all paid off |
| 23:43.16 | Neffi | shrugs |
| 23:43.35 | kd3 | I used to not care. now I at least need to be aware, even if I'm not panicking yet |
| 23:43.39 | Neffi | I just see the stock market as this arcane thing where people play along at a level of abstraction that's just icky to me |
| 23:44.06 | Neffi | Mechanically it makes sense but it's a pretty ugly thing to exist in the first place |
| 23:45.29 | Amarande | also the dow is really quite a skewed view of industry |
| 23:46.00 | Amarande | especially since it often only indexes one major competitor in a largely oligopolistic sector |
| 23:46.58 | Amarande | like, let's say everyone starts going to Burger King, Lowe's, and Target, and buys cell service from AT&T and T-Mobile and drinks Pepsi |
| 23:47.20 | Amarande | someone will claim the sky is falling because that means that McDonald's, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Verizon, and Coca-Cola are losing business (and those are the ones that are on the Dow) :P |
| 23:50.27 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.08 | Primer | Looks like they're crossing the street. Seems rather normal for .jp |
| 23:51.26 | kd3 | not that background crowds ever make sense in anime |
| 23:51.29 | foxlit | perpendicular to the crosswalk. |
| 23:51.29 | Primer | Note the crosswalk markings on the ground |
| 23:51.47 | Primer | Most intersections in .jp are diagonal, no? |
| 23:51.58 | Primer | meaning, all cars stop, everyone goes where they want |
| 23:52.18 | Dagmar | The seven foot bear, tho'.... that's tewtelly normal for Japan. |
| 23:52.36 | Dagmar | Wearing pants, even. 'cuz there's laws. |
| 23:52.48 | foxlit | for logistical reasons, people still walk on crosswalks, regardless of traffic. |
| 23:53.12 | foxlit | you don't really want those streams to intersect at right angles. |
| 23:54.27 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
