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| 00:23.23 | Shirik | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1aHADL2a24 holy crap |
| 00:23.28 | Shirik | today's exposion in china ^ |
| 00:23.59 | Cairenn | Scary, isn't it? |
| 00:24.58 | Cairenn | http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/china-explosion-hundreds-injured-massive-6242091 |
| 00:25.06 | Cairenn | http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blast-rocks-chinese-city-tianjin-dozens-reported-injured-n408626 |
| 00:25.35 | Cairenn | That first link has a bunch of different videos of it |
| 00:27.12 | Shirik | someone told me that everyone within 1km of the blast is dead |
| 00:27.22 | Shirik | I don't know if it's fact or not |
| 00:28.12 | Cairenn | Which blast? There was a fire in the original location, that set off one explosion that set off a second, that have set off explosions in other places (from what I understand) |
| 00:28.24 | Shirik | that's all I know; didn't inquire further |
| 00:28.30 | Primer | So that dude knew there was going to be an explosion! HE IS COMPLICIT!! |
| 00:28.31 | Cairenn | But I wouldn't be half surprised |
| 00:29.02 | Cairenn | (if everyone within x distance has died from it) |
| 00:33.08 | Shirik | Primer: it looks like he was filming the fire |
| 00:33.12 | Shirik | since it was already there |
| 00:34.10 | Primer | yeah, I see that there was a minor explosion first, followed by the huge one |
| 00:34.26 | Primer | Odd that the great firewall of China let that get out to world news media |
| 00:34.52 | Cairenn | One of the videos shows more explosions in a nearby location after the huge one |
| 00:34.52 | Primer | I'd think they'd want to suppress such stuff |
| 00:35.25 | Shirik | one of the things working on Wikipedia has taught me is that the great firewall is mostly useless |
| 00:35.37 | Shirik | people that want to get out will |
| 00:38.54 | Cairenn | My thought after the initial "holy shit" was "thank goodness it happened at night." |
| 00:39.15 | Cairenn | It'd have been even worse if it had been during standard working hours |
| 00:44.33 | Ressy | ya |
| 00:59.28 | mckenziemc | *cry* technologically illiterate parents |
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| 01:19.44 | Stanzilla | hey Simca |
| 01:19.52 | Stanzilla | I'm a grown man now, I can update agent on my own |
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| 01:25.14 | Dagmar | Cairenn: Also, the explosion would have been a lot less impressive. |
| 01:26.18 | Cairenn | Presuming you mean visually? Yup. |
| 01:26.59 | Dagmar | I would _almost_ complain about people dropping their recording equipment in a panic when the second blast wave hits them, but... I can totally understand that reaction |
| 01:27.16 | fewyn | pansy! |
| 01:27.42 | Dagmar | These people are several _miles_ away from the site and the boom still shakes their stuff |
| 01:28.28 | Dagmar | There's no point in even looking at the death tolls yet because single-digit numbers and an equivalent force of 21 _tons_ of TNT are fundamentally incompatible |
| 01:35.12 | mckenziemc | something like that, being at nigth doesn't necessarily mean less deaths :p |
| 01:35.28 | mckenziemc | depending on how close homes are |
| 01:38.03 | Ressy | was probably a blast wave |
| 01:43.08 | kd3 | holy crap |
| 01:43.31 | kd3 | my phone actually beeped at me about the explosion |
| 01:50.19 | Cairenn | I'm betting it set off seismographs all over the place |
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| 01:58.00 | mckenziemc | hugs Cairenn anyway. |
| 01:58.14 | Cairenn | hugs mckenziemc |
| 02:18.22 | Stanzilla | Torhal: http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigbest.pl |
| 02:26.19 | Neffi | nice website Torhal ^ |
| 02:27.00 | Torhal | Stanzilla: Old. :D |
| 02:27.08 | Torhal | Neffi: Heh |
| 02:36.30 | mckenziemc | "A limited number of Introductory Trial Offers are available, while supplies last." |
| 02:36.34 | mckenziemc | Spotify >.> |
| 02:45.41 | Torhal | mckenziemc: Digital shit runs out, you know. |
| 02:48.47 | mckenziemc | expires Torhal. |
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| 03:01.29 | znf | Is anyone on Windows 10? Can you Pin to Taskbar a random program? |
| 03:05.11 | znf | huh, after 5 minutes, I changed nothing, it now works |
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| 03:20.15 | ccox | #^@$&#$%^ Just how long will it take Blizzard to fix the archeology follower quests (which are failing to give you the stated framents) ? |
| 03:21.52 | pompy | or the DMF archaeology quest... |
| 03:21.57 | pompy | gg |
| 03:22.11 | pompy | hasnt been available for the last 2-3 months |
| 03:22.43 | ccox | yeah, the follower quests have been busted for the past few updates. I keep submitting bugs, and havenât heard a thing back. |
| 03:23.47 | pompy | maybe these are signs that blizz is removing archaeology in 7.0! |
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| 05:08.17 | pompy | damn, not "as crazy" as the China explosion, but still - https://www.facebook.com/News12NJ/videos/10153527900019153/ |
| 05:09.49 | znf | As a reminder, in order to comply with European Union law, DigitalOcean will begin charging VAT (Value Added Tax) to all customers located in the EU starting with your invoice on September 1, 2015. |
| 05:10.00 | znf | I don't really understand how "services" are charge VAT |
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| 05:11.13 | znf | So now I'll pay 6.20â¬/month |
| 05:11.14 | znf | thank you, EU |
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| 05:18.55 | pompy | znf: http://www.online-web-presentations.com/HMRC/files/pdf/09.30-09.45-MaryseVolvert.pdf all that crazy talk might be here. |
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| 05:24.52 | mckenziemc | suspects blucoffeecow is colorblind. |
| 05:25.00 | blucoffeecow | hmmmmm |
| 05:27.27 | mckenziemc | coffee isn't blue bluspacemoomoo |
| 05:28.27 | blucoffeecow | lol |
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| 05:28.48 | blucoffeecow | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot #TIL Ancient archers were kinda badass |
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| 05:39.38 | mckenziemc | Ancestors watch under you, bluspacecow. |
| 05:41.17 | blucoffeecow | lol imm not fat! |
| 05:42.34 | pompy | welp https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11872261_997351153619236_7556540461766119377_o.jpg from the explosion in china |
| 05:42.46 | mckenziemc | no but you probably have something under you your ancestors would want to watch |
| 05:43.04 | blucoffeecow | my chair ? |
| 05:43.25 | mckenziemc | or maybe not... |
| 05:43.37 | blucoffeecow | *facepalm* https://twitter.com/Rygarius/status/631605387695775744 |
| 05:43.49 | blucoffeecow | 6.2.2 was a numbering change of 6.2.1 :( |
| 05:50.37 | mckenziemc | updates bluspacecow. |
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| 06:02.08 | Cairenn | http://i.imgur.com/cXWZFci.gif |
| 06:11.25 | Fisker | hugs Cairenn |
| 06:11.33 | Cairenn | hugs Fisker |
| 06:17.14 | blucoffeecow | *hugs foxlit* |
| 06:17.37 | mckenziemc | now what'd you go and do that for |
| 06:19.33 | blucoffeecow | make sure he didnât feel left out |
| 06:19.38 | blucoffeecow | *hugs mckenziemc* |
| 06:19.53 | mckenziemc | lets blucoffeecow outside and shuts the door. |
| 06:20.00 | blucoffeecow | moooooooooo |
| 06:25.43 | Simca | random c++ question |
| 06:25.49 | Simca | well, c, technically |
| 06:25.58 | Simca | is there a difference between | and || when used on two booleans? |
| 06:27.15 | Simca | my guess is no |
| 06:28.03 | nevcairiel | i would always stick to the appropriate operator for what you are doing, and not hope that it works out |
| 06:28.30 | Fisker | there's an additional character there Simca |
| 06:28.56 | nebula169 | Simca: they act as boolean if appropriate, but don't short circuit with compound statements |
| 06:30.41 | mckenziemc | appropriates a dagger to stab Fisker with. |
| 06:48.13 | Shirik | this is from the explosion in china http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1F6D/production/_84854080_cmqtxvowiaalfun.jpg |
| 06:50.25 | nevcairiel | poor cars |
| 06:50.55 | Simca | nevcairiel: this is assembly that was decompiled into C |
| 06:51.11 | Simca | so it's optimized to hell and nearly unreadable |
| 06:51.25 | Simca | I would personally never do it, but here it is |
| 06:51.36 | nevcairiel | the assembly for both is probably the same |
| 06:51.44 | nevcairiel | assuming the C datatypes are the same |
| 06:51.51 | mckenziemc | that's an interesting storage medium, Simca |
| 06:51.52 | nevcairiel | since only 0 is false in C |
| 06:52.08 | mckenziemc | a program stored in the form of a ravaged car lot? |
| 06:52.25 | Shirik | you could do it quite efficiently |
| 06:52.35 | Shirik | instead of 1s and 0s you have a very large variety of different cars you could choose |
| 06:52.37 | mckenziemc | oh i misread Shirik as Simca |
| 06:52.39 | mckenziemc | dammit Shirik |
| 06:52.42 | Simca | lol. |
| 06:52.42 | Shirik | effectively every bit now has 50 states |
| 06:52.46 | Shirik | maybe 100 |
| 06:53.39 | Simca | mckenziemc: it's a program that went from C++ to assembly for x86 to machine code to assembly for x86 to C. |
| 06:54.02 | Simca | so it's -slightly- difficult to read in places. |
| 06:55.49 | mckenziemc | converts Shirik to a trit. |
| 07:02.02 | Shirik | SAN FRANCISCO â The problem with public urination in San Francisco has become so bad that the city has painted nine walls with a repellant material that makes offenders' pee spray back at them. |
| 07:02.14 | mckenziemc | o.O |
| 07:02.34 | nevcairiel | they used that here as well, its quite funny |
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| 07:10.53 | mckenziemc | interesting... |
| 07:11.41 | mckenziemc | so apparently if a potential macro target is far enough away, help,nodead considers the unit as not qualifying and that clause gets skipped |
| 07:12.11 | mckenziemc | same dungeon, macro proceeded to the @focus part |
| 07:17.15 | VIad | mckenziemc: imo exists should be the conditional to check if the unit is in the world (i.e. near you) or not :p |
| 07:17.54 | nevcairiel | exists is implied with @<unit> |
| 07:18.17 | mckenziemc | @ doesn't, but help and nodead both imply it |
| 07:19.09 | mckenziemc | so it *shouldn't* make a difference but weird things do happen |
| 07:19.32 | mckenziemc | err, dead would, nodead doesn't |
| 07:20.40 | Simca | I had [@focus,exists,help,nodead] in a misdirect macro and it didn't work. I changed it to [@focus,help,nodead,exists] and it did. |
| 07:20.48 | Simca | (or maybe it was the other way around, I forget) |
| 07:20.55 | Simca | point was, reordering seemed to fix the problem |
| 07:21.36 | mckenziemc | are you sure it wasn't breaking from a typo? |
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| 07:22.54 | nevcairiel | re-ordering can sometiems magically fix typos |
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| 07:32.47 | nevcairiel | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgurTdK0PTA .. thats one giant explosion |
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| 07:43.48 | pompy | indeed, and not as bad and deadly as that one, but this happened here yesterday https://www.facebook.com/News12NJ/videos/10153527900019153/ |
| 07:44.27 | Cairenn | Yeah, heard about that. Not good. :( |
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| 07:49.59 | Simca_ | pompy: WOW at that semi that goes by it at during the first 30 seconds |
| 07:50.10 | Simca_ | that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen |
| 07:50.12 | Simca_ | lol |
| 07:50.57 | Simca_ | he was so lucky that the sparks and flames just missed the areas that would have blown up his semi and added to the pile of cars |
| 07:51.44 | nevcairiel | yeah all these cars and trucks still passing it |
| 07:51.49 | nevcairiel | i wouldnt have gone anywhere near it |
| 07:52.28 | Simca_ | the semi is the last one through because the cars after it see the secondary explosions starting and stay away |
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| 07:52.59 | Simca_ | but the semi driver is already next to it, committed to his stupidity at this point, so all he could do was pray |
| 07:54.09 | Simca_ | he goes past at ~0:20, a -massive- explosion happens at ~0:34 |
| 07:54.12 | Simca_ | 14 seconds from dead |
| 07:54.18 | Simca_ | that's what he was. |
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| 07:57.13 | pompy | and yet they only suffered minor injuries |
| 07:59.11 | Simca_ | that semi driver was probably closer to death then the people in the vehicles involved in the crash were, assuming those drivers ran away properly |
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| 08:23.40 | Gnarfoz | what was it that exploded in each of those explosions? |
| 08:23.50 | Gnarfoz | (Tianjin and New Jersey) |
| 08:26.38 | mckenziemc | "The Fire Department of Chinaâs Ministry of Public Security said on its verified microblog that the warehouse was being used by Ruihai International Logistics Co., a company that handles hazardous materials. " |
| 08:26.41 | pompy | Gnarfoz: Tianjin-Chemical .... NJ-Tractor-Trailers colliding |
| 08:26.49 | mckenziemc | The companyâs main business is shipping dangerous goods at the Tianjin port, according to its website, |
| 08:27.05 | mckenziemc | from the wall street journal, pretty sure the article is behind a pay wall though |
| 08:27.11 | mckenziemc | http://www.wsj.com/articles/explosions-kill-dozens-at-warehouse-in-tianjin-china-1439449553 |
| 08:28.05 | pompy | the tractor trailer was carrying medical supplies |
| 08:30.47 | nevcairiel | like what, oxygen t anks |
| 08:32.09 | Gnarfoz | yeah. "tractors colliding" doesn't necessarily get THAT kind of result :D I meant the cargo |
| 08:33.46 | nevcairiel | hazardous materials could of course mean anything |
| 08:33.51 | nevcairiel | but much of that may a lso be volatile |
| 08:33.53 | nevcairiel | so yeah.. |
| 08:34.42 | Gnarfoz | anyway, "port of" probably means there's also fuels of all kinds around |
| 08:35.36 | mckenziemc | the wording of the article suggests it's not known or being withheld |
| 08:38.52 | karl_w_w | regular fuel probably wouldn't do that |
| 08:39.00 | mckenziemc | given it was a warehouse there probably were a variety of things in the same area |
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| 08:43.28 | pompy | yeah they are being rather quiet right now about what type of tractor trailers were involved in the crash and cargo involved. |
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| 08:44.39 | Gnarfoz | znf: does DigitalOcean have an EU office? |
| 08:45.02 | Gnarfoz | if not... they're being dumb, I think |
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| 08:48.50 | mckenziemc | we seem to be having an excess flood here :( |
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| 08:49.37 | mckenziemc | Shirik are you able to do anything about that ^ |
| 08:49.49 | Gnarfoz | mckenziemc: is Amarande talking? |
| 08:49.55 | nevcairiel | no |
| 08:50.03 | Gnarfoz | :( I thought that's what he meant :p |
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| 08:50.10 | nevcairiel | mckenziemc: just hide join part like any sane person |
| 08:50.33 | mckenziemc | but that causes its own kind of insanity |
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| 08:53.30 | pompy | Gnarfoz: not necessarily an "office" of theirs but .. https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/introducing-our-new-european-region-frankfurt/ |
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| 08:58.54 | Gnarfoz | pompy: hm k, but that doesn't look like they have a German subsidiary |
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| 09:01.25 | nevcairiel | at least storing the data in the EU is better for some laws |
| 09:01.32 | nevcairiel | but being a US company might still be troublesome |
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| 09:08.25 | Gnarfoz | sure, but that's not what znf complained about |
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| 09:08.44 | nevcairiel | he complains about the most useless things, so i focused on actual issues! |
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| 10:53.23 | bluspacecow | Fisker |
| 10:53.26 | bluspacecow | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:56.36 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
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| 12:28.24 | kullervo | http://kullervo.dy.fi/pub/drop/pic/Windows_Update_2015-08-13_15-28-13.png |
| 12:28.25 | kullervo | that's new |
| 12:28.37 | kullervo | I'm not allowed to postpone |
| 12:28.57 | Dagmar | Looks like it's gotten tired of your foot-dragging. |
| 12:29.03 | Dagmar | ...or you're no longer a power user. |
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| 12:29.36 | kullervo | told it to remind me again in 4 hours... five minutes ago |
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| 12:43.32 | NuSuey | kullervo: lol lucky I'm on linux and don't need to handle such f.kery :) |
| 12:46.11 | NuSuey | all it needs some more AAA games + some software and people start to check out linux distros more.. |
| 12:46.41 | NuSuey | guess the search text "how do I downgrade from windows 10 to XYZ" will be quite popular |
| 12:46.56 | kullervo | how do you find out if someone uses linux? You don't have to, they'll tell you. |
| 12:47.25 | NuSuey | ha! |
| 12:47.59 | NuSuey | shhh..okay I'll hide again in the corner :) |
| 12:52.28 | karl_w_w | i dont understand licorice allsorts |
| 12:52.41 | kullervo | got to have bad ones so the good ones stand out |
| 12:52.43 | karl_w_w | are they designed to trick people into thinking licorice is palatable? |
| 12:54.42 | nevcairiel | licorice is awesome |
| 12:54.43 | sb | [14:46:11] <NuSuey> all it needs some more AAA games + some software and people start to check out linux distros more.. <-- hey, thats what i thought >10 years ago :D |
| 12:57.05 | kullervo | to be fair, I did too |
| 12:57.23 | kullervo | nowadays I'm more like "who the fuck runs a windows server?" |
| 12:58.42 | nevcairiel | my home server is windows because it needs to serve some multimedia things which dont work on linux, and since that its primary purpose, the OS on the metal is windows, and some linux VMs on it for other tasks =p |
| 12:59.02 | NuSuey | sb: well things like shadow of mordor, batman etc etc, are proof of that times are changing :) |
| 12:59.54 | kullervo | nevcairiel: the biggest plus of a windows home server is that it can index the data so searching is fast |
| 13:00.25 | kullervo | media streaming, file sharing and such works just fine through some third party tools |
| 13:00.56 | nevcairiel | i dont use MSs media sharing, but the third party things I want to use barely work on Linux |
| 13:01.14 | nevcairiel | mostly because multimedia hardware support on linux is terrible |
| 13:01.49 | kullervo | ah yeah if you want to actually use the server as a media pc, it's a different thing |
| 13:02.21 | nevcairiel | well not directly, but it does transcode videos, and actually being able to use the transcoder in the GPU for on-the-fly streaming to mobile does help |
| 13:03.26 | kullervo | my server doesn't even HAVE a GPu :D |
| 13:03.27 | nevcairiel | that whole topic is a minefield on linux |
| 13:03.37 | nevcairiel | every system has some sort of GPU |
| 13:04.04 | nevcairiel | although i specifically selected this one with a Xeon model which has the integrated GPU |
| 13:04.18 | nevcairiel | others have a some crazy 2D GPU on the motherboard or something |
| 13:04.31 | kullervo | nevcairiel: uh... Except systems that don't |
| 13:04.34 | nevcairiel | ie. typical server gpu, which can do nothing more than show a text console, or the windows desktop if you're lucky |
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| 13:05.08 | nevcairiel | I have yet to see a system without any sort of graphics output =p |
| 13:05.40 | kullervo | I'd take a picture but only the selfie cam of my phone works |
| 13:05.45 | nevcairiel | typical servers have soem weak basic gpu for maintenance |
| 13:06.01 | kullervo | this doesn't use "server" hardware |
| 13:06.19 | nevcairiel | typical desktop/workstation doesnt even boot without any gpu |
| 13:06.19 | nevcairiel | :D |
| 13:06.24 | kullervo | it had an external gpu for initial installation |
| 13:06.41 | kullervo | they boot just fine |
| 13:06.50 | kullervo | if it's misaligned or broken, THEN you'll be getting errors |
| 13:07.32 | nevcairiel | i suppose its possible to actually remove it after installation |
| 13:08.00 | kullervo | I'm not 31337 enough to do a fresh install without seeing what's going on :D |
| 13:16.16 | NuSuey | guess I'll post something wow related .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZTYwtTR_i0 (nsfw) |
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| 13:36.04 | Lopeppeppy | I survived vacation, and all I got was this t-shirt! |
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| 14:06.02 | bluspacecow | oh hai2u Lopeppeppy |
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| 14:29.42 | Lopeppeppy | Heya, blueberry! Did I miss anything fun? |
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| 14:36.46 | Sharparam | i'm assuming it's not possible to have a regular name as a target in a /cast macro, but unable to test for myself atm |
| 14:36.56 | Sharparam | are secure buttons able to execute more than one command in a macrotext attribute? |
| 14:37.07 | nevcairiel | you can have names in a target command |
| 14:37.14 | nevcairiel | but it only works for raid members afaik |
| 14:37.18 | Sharparam | yeah but i'd need a /target followed by a /cast |
| 14:37.30 | Sharparam | oh target as in the [@] attribute? |
| 14:37.33 | nevcairiel | no, /cast [@Sharparam] works |
| 14:37.36 | Sharparam | i see |
| 14:37.38 | nevcairiel | but only for raid/party members |
| 14:37.42 | Sharparam | i wonder if bodyguard names work |
| 14:37.50 | Sharparam | they aren't in raid/party so maybe not |
| 14:37.50 | nevcairiel | probably not |
| 14:37.52 | nevcairiel | but just test |
| 14:37.57 | Sharparam | i don't have a sub right now :/ |
| 14:38.05 | Sharparam | and the PTR starts you off at 90 without a bodyguard |
| 14:38.40 | nevcairiel | it doesnt work |
| 14:38.45 | Sharparam | damn |
| 14:38.46 | nevcairiel | although maybe it craps out on the space in the name |
| 14:38.48 | nevcairiel | who knows |
| 14:38.53 | Sharparam | is it possible to execute two commands in a macrotext then? |
| 14:39.04 | nevcairiel | macrotext work like any normal macro |
| 14:39.04 | Sharparam | a /target followed by a /cast [@target] |
| 14:39.10 | nevcairiel | if you can do it there, then you can do it here |
| 14:39.17 | Sharparam | that's good to know |
| 14:39.44 | Sharparam | pretty annoying trying to add features without a sub to debug the addon... |
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| 14:40.42 | nevcairiel | i guess |
| 14:41.05 | nebula169 | you don't need a sub, trial account works fine for most things |
| 14:41.18 | nevcairiel | not for your garrison |
| 14:41.40 | Sharparam | yeah |
| 14:41.46 | nebula169 | like i said, most things! |
| 14:41.49 | Sharparam | :P |
| 14:42.12 | Sharparam | character copy seems to only be available if you have a sub, or at least there was no button to copy when i was on ptr without one |
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| 14:52.51 | Fisker | tacklehugs Lopeppeppy |
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| 16:22.15 | mckenziemc | Lopeppeppy is back! |
| 16:22.24 | Lopeppeppy | Back in black, baby! |
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| 16:25.22 | mckenziemc | i couldn't sleep in, neighbor is chainsawing :'( |
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| 16:28.43 | Shirik | is that actually a verb? |
| 16:28.58 | Shirik | it is o.o |
| 16:29.00 | Lopeppeppy | I haven't slept well since I came back from Pennsic - it's been too quiet! Send me your chainsaws. |
| 16:29.18 | mckenziemc | cuts off Shirik's arms and legs with a chainsaw. |
| 16:29.46 | mckenziemc | better Lopeppeppy? |
| 16:29.57 | Shirik | it's just a flesh wound |
| 16:30.06 | Lopeppeppy | .... mmm, I liked Shirik better with his limbs intact. Just a personal preference. |
| 16:31.07 | mckenziemc | you don't like Albuquerque? |
| 16:31.27 | mckenziemc | :( |
| 16:43.38 | Shirik | albuquerque? |
| 16:48.16 | mckenziemc | slaps Shirik. |
| 16:48.25 | Shirik | lsaps albuquerque |
| 17:06.25 | pompy | https://youtu.be/4k8jxRQa98s |
| 17:07.04 | pompy | http://www.anandtech.com/show/9502/hands-on-with-the-galaxy-note-5-and-galaxy-s6-edge-plus |
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| 17:10.51 | mckenziemc | Shirik: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albuquerque_%28song%29 |
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| 17:25.45 | pompy | love that song, lol. |
| 17:25.55 | Shirik | is it about slapping people? |
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| 17:26.24 | mckenziemc | no Shirik |
| 17:27.46 | mckenziemc | but i think you could use the box of one dozen starving crazed weasels |
| 17:28.08 | mckenziemc | flesh-eating |
| 17:29.13 | mckenziemc | people still drop group to avoid dying? |
| 17:29.22 | mckenziemc | in a levelling dungeon of all places? |
| 17:32.23 | kullervo | mckenziemc: I would, if I were a tank with elixir |
| 17:32.36 | kullervo | yes I'd be crazy enough to actually do dungeons with elixir |
| 17:33.26 | mckenziemc | good point i suppose |
| 17:33.34 | mckenziemc | don't know whether or not the healer had that |
| 17:33.37 | mckenziemc | i take it it fades on death |
| 17:34.21 | kullervo | yeah it does |
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| 17:41.20 | mckenziemc | there's no way to have a macro automatically show the healthstone icon if i have one, and what's equipped in the neck slot (assumed to be the BtA piece) if not, is there |
| 17:41.55 | mckenziemc | the macro's set to /use Healthstone /use 2, it shows ? if i haven't seen a healthstone during the session :( |
| 17:42.05 | mckenziemc | with #showtooltip |
| 17:42.32 | kullervo | mckenziemc: seems macros can't do that |
| 17:42.40 | kullervo | it only refreshes on ui reloads after it picks some icon |
| 17:43.13 | kullervo | and if you don't have the first listed thing available it'll be ? until you acquire it |
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| 18:30.26 | karl_w_w | mckenziemc, just set the icon to the healthstone icon :P |
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| 19:23.50 | Neffiphone | all of the queued events for a given cycle occur before the OnUpdate of that same frame cycle, right? |
| 19:26.25 | Shirik | http://qz.com/476914/i-built-a-twitter-bot-that-entered-and-won-1000-online-contests-for-me/ |
| 19:28.02 | Neffiphone | Semlar! |
| 19:28.11 | Semlar | neflar |
| 19:28.11 | Neffiphone | do you know this? |
| 19:28.34 | Shirik | I don't know how you would even know the difference, Neffiphone |
| 19:29.03 | Semlar | onupdate marks the end of the frame |
| 19:29.08 | Neffiphone | shirik lots of events happen that affect the same thing so you queue the drawing for the subsequent knupdate |
| 19:29.26 | Neffiphone | hypothetically |
| 19:29.35 | Shirik | yeah but this still gets into a "so what" scenario |
| 19:29.50 | Shirik | what if they didn't? I don't see why your code would change. |
| 19:29.59 | Neffiphone | if it happens on the next frame then the display will lag 1 frame behind |
| 19:30.11 | Shirik | but you don't have the information for it anyway |
| 19:30.12 | Neffiphone | so the optimization isn't worth it maybe |
| 19:30.24 | Neffiphone | what do you mean? |
| 19:30.36 | Shirik | if you don't have the information, there's no way you can display it |
| 19:30.49 | Shirik | I don't see how "knowing when the frame will update" changes "what you want to display" |
| 19:30.59 | Neffiphone | events occur and you cache the relevant data, then in on update you crawl the cache and update anything asking for that data |
| 19:31.12 | Semlar | you can't do that |
| 19:31.38 | Neffiphone | why not? |
| 19:31.47 | Semlar | just because an event can fire multiple times during the same frame doesn't mean you can just ignore the event until the end of the frame |
| 19:32.01 | Neffiphone | I'll explain better when I'm at my keyboard |
| 19:32.09 | Neffiphone | this is very hard to type |
| 19:32.18 | Shirik | tbh it's a violation of things like MVVM principles anyway |
| 19:32.31 | Semlar | because when the event fires something may need to be processed immediately |
| 19:32.33 | Shirik | the painting operation should be totally separate from the data that backs up what is to be painted |
| 19:32.51 | Neffiphone | semlar we are talking about a situation where this isn't the case, for instance |
| 19:32.52 | Semlar | which can affect other events that happen within the same frame |
| 19:33.57 | Semlar | if you're just talking about for your own addon, then yeah you can just check if x event fired in the last frame at all and process it |
| 19:34.11 | Semlar | if you're talking about collecting all events and dispatching them yourself, that's going to break something |
| 19:34.51 | Shirik | my concern is that even if it's just your own addon, trying to collect all events and waiting to act on them until painting the frame is a coupling that should not exist |
| 19:35.11 | Semlar | i've done it for things |
| 19:36.01 | Shirik | it's a basic UI design principle. Your data model should be separate from the view model. |
| 19:36.08 | Shirik | That doesn't mean it's required, but you better have a damn good reason for avoiding it. |
| 19:36.32 | Semlar | if you have an event that can fire a ridiculous number of times and you only need to process it once per frame, then you may as well just check if it fired within the last frame |
| 19:37.21 | Semlar | for example with criteria updates or inventory slot changes |
| 19:37.28 | Shirik | I seriously doubt the performance benefits of such an operation outweigh the maintenance costs associated with it. That being said, it is certainly possible, and hence the comment "damn good reason" |
| 19:41.06 | Neffi | Ok, so, I know you guys didn't necessarily like dog tags, and this is gonna sound vaguely similar, but humor me for a minute |
| 19:42.14 | Neffi | I was thinking, you give the user this nice little DSL that they can use to describe what each element of the unit frame displays. Health bar can become "curhp / maxhp", etc. It allows a great deal of customization, yet the barrier to entry for configuration is not quite as high as asking users to write Lua code, which -- from all the questions I've seen on forums about it, is confusing for users |
| 19:43.18 | Neffi | You write a compiler. You parse this DSL and you get a list of tags, and a syntax tree, and you compile this right into Lua code which directly updates the frame. So you now have a function for updating the frame exactly as the user described it, and a list of tags which that function cares about |
| 19:43.22 | Shirik | I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the term DSL in this chat before |
| 19:43.30 | Shirik | :D |
| 19:43.40 | Neffi | So now making unit frames is as easy as running a few functions at the right point |
| 19:43.44 | Shirik | comes up a lot at work because we do a lot of code generation |
| 19:43.58 | Neffi | UNIT_HEALTH happens, you update your value for curhp for that unit, and run the function, passing the cached values for every tag it cares about |
| 19:44.04 | Neffi | yes, code generation! |
| 19:44.28 | Neffi | This is very efficient because you're just passing some data to a function and calling it |
| 19:44.39 | Shirik | I like the idea. I don't think you need to perform the optimization you're proposing. |
| 19:44.45 | Neffi | You get a massive amount of very easy configuration, but it's faster than any other unit frame addon! |
| 19:45.07 | Shirik | The act of running SetText() on a health/mana/whatever even if it changes multiple times before a frame refresh should be absurdly cheap |
| 19:45.14 | Shirik | the "work" is done during painting |
| 19:45.31 | Neffi | But complex specifications may involve 10, 20 tags. Long complex strings showing various things about a unit. They can easily approach dozens of tags in use. If you need to rerun the function every time _any_ of those tags changes value, then you're doing tons of superfluous calls |
| 19:45.46 | Shirik | It's not the calls that would be expensive, but any string manipulation you might be doing |
| 19:46.00 | Neffi | When you can have 100 unit frames on the screen (full raid group, pets, targets, bosses, etc) and all the interactions of say a big city raid, you can get into the tens of thousands of superfluous interactions here |
| 19:46.13 | Shirik | Let me give you a concrete example |
| 19:46.24 | Shirik | I made this exact same argument when I changed Auctioneer's algorithm to start using calculus |
| 19:46.41 | Neffi | but this allows the user to do complex string manipulation, a la dog tags |
| 19:46.45 | Neffi | and many of them will |
| 19:46.48 | Shirik | It had to do literally millions of operations in a millisecond so that it would be able to show up in time for the overlay |
| 19:47.07 | Neffi | we want to not calculate the string on the unit frame which shows 10 different values 10 times per frame |
| 19:47.09 | Shirik | I thought it was impossible and that I could do some caching to make it cheaper. At the end of the day, I just tested it first |
| 19:47.12 | Shirik | and it worked great |
| 19:48.00 | Shirik | The property you need to watch out for is that every time you modify a string you are allocating a new one. That's where it gets expensive. Try to avoid that by keeping the tags as separate strings, etc. and you'll probably be fine. |
| 19:48.16 | Neffi | yes but auctioneer isn't doin that stuff amid combat. full city raid, guns blazing, thousands of units, a hundred unit frames. unit frames are not the only thing doing heavy processing in this moment. the most process-hungry addons do all their work during combat. |
| 19:48.28 | Neffi | we want each thing to be highly efficient |
| 19:48.35 | Shirik | your claim that people don't believe they are in combat while working on the auction house is disputable :P |
| 19:48.44 | Neffi | haha |
| 19:49.04 | Neffi | if a city raid happens while working at the auction house you expect to be disrupted so performanceis not a consideration for this situation |
| 19:49.07 | Shirik | all I'm saying is you really should time it first |
| 19:49.17 | Shirik | if it takes 10 microseconds you are wasting your time |
| 19:49.18 | Neffi | oh, yes, definitely |
| 19:49.26 | Neffi | I was just thinking through it as a possible optimization |
| 19:49.34 | Neffi | this is totally hypothetical |
| 19:49.54 | Shirik | I have been consistently surprised by how efficiently the Blizzard API runs |
| 19:50.03 | Neffi | it really is surprsing |
| 19:50.18 | Neffi | I mean, Lua is fast as all hell, but they must've optimized the Lua<->C call boundary |
| 19:50.29 | Neffi | because I dont think Rio Lua is _that_ fast when doing so many C callouts |
| 19:51.41 | Shirik | have you worked on the C side of Lua at all? |
| 19:51.49 | Shirik | not disputing, just a question |
| 19:51.55 | Neffi | I dont actually play WoW right now, but I was just thinking about code generation and WoW popped into my mind for some reason, and the rest just kinda connected -- I could write unit frames with the properties of both being highly configurable, easy to configure, and highly efficient, with code generation |
| 19:52.09 | Neffi | A bit, yes. Not heavily. Not implementing large scale thing |
| 19:52.19 | Neffi | But I understand the principles of the C API, the stack, et al |
| 19:52.50 | Shirik | yeah the neat thing is that switching to C code really is cheap, but the problem you run into is dealing with code that could break |
| 19:53.09 | Shirik | setting up a protected Lua environment is insanely expensive |
| 19:53.23 | Neffi | I also know that Rio Lua is not necessarily written for peak speed. There are probably many things which could be sped up by a nice little margin |
| 19:53.23 | Shirik | (i.e., pcall) |
| 19:54.17 | Neffi | yes, I imagine |
| 19:54.24 | Neffi | I havent looked at how pcall is implemented |
| 19:55.29 | Neffi | Ah! right. that's a consideration in my design. we are executing arbitrary Lua code. either I need to emit Lua code with the necessary checks in place, or I have to have good compile-time checks, or I have to pcall it |
| 19:55.34 | Torhal | I hear Neffi does a pcall every time he sees a restroom. |
| 19:55.54 | Neffi | compiles Torhal into a cat. |
| 19:56.09 | Torhal | Nope. |
| 19:56.15 | Neffi | no, trust me |
| 19:56.21 | Neffi | you are a cat now |
| 19:58.51 | Shirik | print while(<>); |
| 19:58.59 | Shirik | ^ cat |
| 19:59.07 | Neffi | har har har |
| 19:59.10 | Neffi | you so funny Shirik |
| 19:59.31 | Shirik | this is my favorite perl example because it explains so clearly why perl is evil |
| 19:59.37 | Neffi | haha |
| 19:59.58 | Neffi | I always swallow hard when I have to open up somebody else's Perl code |
| 20:00.09 | Dagmar | I just fix it and move on. |
| 20:00.27 | Dagmar | Shirik's code can at least be determined to have very few bugs. |
| 20:00.32 | Neffi | you glossed over the part where you have figure out what the hell all these symbols bunched together mean |
| 20:00.50 | Dagmar | No, that's part of the fixing. |
| 20:00.59 | Dagmar | There's _usually_ fewer lines when I'm done, but not always. |
| 20:01.19 | Dagmar | if it's not readable, and it's not blazingly fast, then it's broken. |
| 20:02.27 | Neffi | :| |
| 20:02.46 | Neffi | people like you give me anxiety |
| 20:02.48 | Neffi | ;) |
| 20:02.57 | Dagmar | i started coding when I was 11 years old. |
| 20:03.12 | Neffi | I was playing with Pokemon when I was 11 years old |
| 20:03.13 | Shirik | the problem isn't that |
| 20:03.22 | Shirik | it's that everyone else DIDN'T start coding when they were 11 years old |
| 20:03.31 | Neffi | Actually, wait, I was coding Javascript and PHP when I was 11, but I wasn't any good at it |
| 20:03.33 | Shirik | so when they have to fix your code they are going to break something because they can't read it |
| 20:03.34 | Neffi | so that doesnt count |
| 20:04.28 | Neffi | you don't need to have started coding at some young age to be a talented coder |
| 20:04.42 | Dagmar | It does help. |
| 20:04.44 | Shirik | I'm just saying that not everyone is a talented software developer |
| 20:04.55 | Shirik | and you have to be able to perform with the weakest link |
| 20:05.00 | Dagmar | I'll go a bit further than that and say most coders are shit |
| 20:05.04 | Neffi | I think there is more variation in skill from person to person, than in those who start very young and those who start as an adult, Dagmar |
| 20:05.35 | Dagmar | The advantage to having been at it since I was 11 is that I've generally a good idea of what's going on under the hood |
| 20:05.56 | Neffi | I think your passion for what you do counts more than anything really. That's the difference between learning enough to get it working, and investigating the academically correct approach, and learning new techniques, and improving your skill for fun |
| 20:06.10 | Shirik | ooo |
| 20:06.11 | Shirik | this is a fun one |
| 20:06.13 | Shirik | The FCC is hoping to protect consumers from blackouts that result from retransmission disputes between pay TV providers and broadcasters. |
| 20:06.13 | Shirik | In a blog post, FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler said he's in the process of circulating an order that would allow pay TV providers to import a signal from an out-of-market station should a local broadcaster pull its programming due to contract disagreements. |
| 20:06.31 | Neffi | o.o |
| 20:06.51 | Neffi | Tom Wheeler better be careful |
| 20:07.02 | Neffi | He's in real danger of being seen as a half decent human being |
| 20:07.06 | Neffi | in politics, that's dangerous |
| 20:07.07 | Shirik | lol |
| 20:27.16 | foxlit | https://www.townlong-yak.com/opie/extended-conditionals#non-secure << does that make sense? |
| 20:32.11 | Neffi | foxlit: yes |
| 20:32.26 | foxlit | am I missing any other obvious ones that might be useful? |
| 20:33.43 | Neffi | not that I can think of off the time of my head but I'm sure there are more that are desirable |
| 20:33.51 | Neffi | flying? mounted? |
| 20:34.14 | Neffi | ontaxi |
| 20:34.22 | Neffi | just throwing some things out there though |
| 20:34.37 | foxlit | flying and mounted already exist |
| 20:35.27 | Neffi | yeah I thought they might |
| 20:37.59 | foxlit | ontaxi is a little weird since you can't do much on a taxi |
| 20:41.43 | kullervo | you can use some toys when on a taxi |
| 20:41.54 | kullervo | and change equipment.. That's it really |
| 20:46.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@75.133.100.116) |
| 20:49.20 | nevcairiel | Warriors can change stances |
| 20:49.25 | nevcairiel | Which is weird :D |
| 20:52.44 | kullervo | oh monks probably can too |
| 21:05.09 | pompy | kullervo: your unfinished story will be finished later this year... http://www.avclub.com/article/unfinished-tolkien-middle-earth-story-will-be-publ-223657 |
| 21:10.52 | Fisker | So Shirik |
| 21:11.15 | Fisker | Stopping ingress now that it's not Google anymore? |
| 21:11.24 | zenzelezz | why did no-one tell me about the indoctrination theory/ies for Mass Effect... they're brilliant |
| 21:12.43 | Amarande | zenzelezz, just whatever you do, never play New Game + in ME2 |
| 21:12.45 | mckenziemc | uh |
| 21:13.43 | kullervo | pompy: yeah someone #elsewhere mentioned that too |
| 21:13.43 | Amarande | apparently, unlike most games where NG+ is meant to help you make it easier to get stuff you missed next time |
| 21:13.43 | Amarande | it's apparently actually *harder* in ME2 |
| 21:13.43 | kullervo | I'll probably hear about that for a few months at least |
| 21:13.43 | zenzelezz | Amarande: "New Game +"? |
| 21:14.04 | Amarande | zenzelezz: when you start a game over using your finished game save for bonuses in the second go-through |
| 21:14.28 | Amarande | or it's *supposed* to be bonuses, but apparently they cacked up how reputation checks work on a second playthrough so some stuff can be practically impossible without cheating |
| 21:14.29 | zenzelezz | oh, I see |
| 21:16.00 | mckenziemc | i thought ME1 alone was clear enough, unless i actually don't know what you're talking about :p |
| 21:17.06 | mckenziemc | oh i had misread Amarande's statement |
| 21:17.12 | mckenziemc | guess i assumed he was saying something useful |
| 21:27.35 | Shirik | Fisker: why would I? |
| 21:32.06 | mckenziemc | because Fisker suggested it |
| 21:32.24 | nevcairiel | wrap 24/7 location tracking into a game, see the nerds opt-in! |
| 21:36.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~industria@ip-213-127-162-6.ip.prioritytelecom.net) |
| 21:37.27 | phelps | does anyone know how blizzard decides if you can backstab or not ? |
| 21:37.38 | phelps | its clearly not being "behind" the target |
| 21:37.49 | phelps | http://i.imgur.com/FwYvNhS.png |
| 21:37.55 | phelps | as I can backstab standing there |
| 21:38.01 | nevcairiel | training dummys are weird |
| 21:38.22 | phelps | does it have something to do with its attackable size ? |
| 21:38.23 | nevcairiel | anyway it doesnt say "need to be behind", it says "not in front" |
| 21:38.25 | nevcairiel | so side usually works |
| 21:38.37 | phelps | im not on the side, im clearly infront of it |
| 21:38.55 | nevcairiel | well from the target circle on the ground, its more of a side |
| 21:38.59 | phelps | http://i.imgur.com/CGdfpsh.jpg |
| 21:39.01 | phelps | from above |
| 21:39.23 | phelps | I'd call that well into the front of the circle |
| 21:39.26 | mckenziemc | is there an area where you *can't* backstab it? |
| 21:39.33 | phelps | if I move any more left |
| 21:39.42 | mckenziemc | working as intended |
| 21:39.46 | phelps | so into the red circle, not changing angle |
| 21:39.59 | mckenziemc | they changed how back/front work to be more forgiving |
| 21:40.10 | phelps | more forgiving, haha |
| 21:40.15 | nevcairiel | angle is irrelevant, as long as you are still kinda facing it |
| 21:40.18 | mckenziemc | just can't be "in front" which is less than 180 |
| 21:40.30 | nevcairiel | yeah front is more like 90 now |
| 21:40.44 | nevcairiel | so you get 270 which is the two sides and the back |
| 21:40.45 | phelps | lol |
| 21:41.10 | phelps | i've been trying to get into the strangest "behind but not behind" i can |
| 21:41.13 | nevcairiel | but training dummys have a relatively small targeting box, so its much easier there |
| 21:41.37 | mckenziemc | they announced that change when talking about ability pruning |
| 21:41.41 | nevcairiel | if its a huge boss with a large hitbox, you will know when you are in front =p |
| 21:42.14 | nevcairiel | in any case, stop thinking about front and back alone |
| 21:42.17 | nevcairiel | there is also two sides |
| 21:42.27 | phelps | this is also a valid position to backstab from, http://i.imgur.com/Je09AS0.png |
| 21:43.08 | mckenziemc | you broke my firefox |
| 21:43.12 | phelps | I can't melee, but I can backstab |
| 21:43.14 | mckenziemc | too many tabs open (clearly your fault!) |
| 21:43.29 | phelps | melee says im facing the wrong direction, backstab works fine |
| 21:43.43 | phelps | i think its broken |
| 21:44.23 | mckenziemc | if it's broken, then it's also working as intended ! |
| 21:44.44 | phelps | idk how melee is facing the wrong direction but backstab is just fine |
| 21:44.59 | phelps | so backstab must have its own even more forgiving behind |
| 21:45.13 | phelps | or facing |
| 21:46.11 | phelps | it makes sense why rouges just run around you in pvp, 90% of the time they're behind you, regardless of where they are, they don't even need to be facing you |
| 21:46.14 | Stanzilla | Simca: looks like product refactor was not ready for prime time |
| 21:48.30 | mckenziemc | i've never seen rouge running around |
| 21:52.00 | nevcairiel | do rogues even play with backstab in pvp |
| 21:52.15 | nevcairiel | more accurately, do rogues pvp as sub |
| 21:56.06 | Shirik | I always thought backstab was too inconsistent to use in pvp |
| 21:56.13 | Shirik | (from someone who does not play a rogue) |
| 21:58.57 | kullervo | phelps: special abilities have wider angle than autoattack |
| 21:59.31 | kullervo | this is a trick I taught to the dk community to help them solo Vizier |
| 22:04.27 | kullervo | phelps: http://i.imgur.com/yV1HI5s.png |
| 22:06.05 | phelps | im guessing some ability that deals damage on auto attacks |
| 22:08.08 | kullervo | that particular fight was about not using a single autoattack after reaching the third platform |
| 22:08.25 | kullervo | since the boss would just continue casting the aoe and not cast mind control |
| 22:13.24 | kullervo | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFHf9vw08bA |
| 22:13.51 | kullervo | I also did that as a monk some weeks before the DK concept kill... which I only did because a guildie said it wasn't possible |
| 22:17.08 | kullervo | and that's indeed done with ridiculously bad gear, as the cape proc in the end proves :D |
| 22:20.09 | phelps | haha, thats pretty good |
| 22:23.12 | nevcairiel | but level 100, i thought on-level :( |
| 22:29.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 22:32.49 | kullervo | nevcairiel: I never thought of doing it. Would've been EASIER at appropriate level due to vengeance... |
| 22:41.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Primer (~daniel@ceregatti.org) |
| 22:46.54 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl (foobar@ypsilon.residential.okstate.edu) |
| 22:49.30 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO^^ (as@2601:143:4000:ed70:4df5:df5d:13b3:cb3b) |
| 22:50.10 | pompy | ^^ |
| 23:18.10 | *** join/#wowuidev wodim (~oook@kvirc/developer/wodim) |
| 23:35.21 | Stanzilla | Simca: lol'd |
| 23:40.08 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@dslb-092-072-009-022.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 23:40.08 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 23:40.56 | kd3 | grah, cisco ios is pain |
| 23:43.24 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 23:47.46 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 23:48.08 | Neffi | guiz i think harl is being hacked by the nsa |
| 23:48.17 | harl | oO |
| 23:49.23 | harl | then again i'm not |
| 23:49.47 | mckenziemc | how do you know |
| 23:50.12 | harl | i'm not even here, you know? |
| 23:50.31 | mckenziemc | o.o |
| 23:53.54 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 23:54.44 | mckenziemc | i see |
| 23:55.22 | Neffi | right? |
| 23:55.32 | mckenziemc | no, down |
| 23:57.16 | Neffi | oh ok |
