| 00:06.34 | Semlar | JoinLFG requires a hardware event now :( |
| 00:08.16 | mckenziemc | has for a while i thought |
| 00:09.51 | Semlar | not mentioned anywhere |
| 00:09.55 | *** join/#wowuidev chaud__ (~chaud@75-136-135-134.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 00:10.11 | Semlar | except ironically when i brought this up in 2013 in this chat |
| 00:18.50 | mckenziemc | didn't they specifically do that to prevent people from joining while afk? |
| 00:20.28 | Trela | Probably for other reasons too. |
| 00:32.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Pac (~pac2722@203-219-137-117.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:38.38 | kullervo | yes, specifically to not have 10 afk players at the start of a BG |
| 00:40.27 | Semlar | except JoinLFG just puts you in the queue, not enter the thing |
| 00:41.44 | Semlar | they protected the accept proposal function a while before that |
| 00:41.52 | mckenziemc | ah |
| 00:42.46 | Semlar | you still have to click another button to enter when the queue pops |
| 00:43.54 | mckenziemc | could still have been abused :p |
| 00:45.33 | Amarande | heh, give it another decade or two, till we have actual automated botting |
| 00:45.57 | Amarande | as in, till some gold farming firm comes up with the bright idea to create actual hardware robots that actually sit in front of a keyboard and play wow, thus aren't detectable as software bots would be |
| 00:46.18 | pompy | karl_w_w: https://www.facebook.com/bleacherreport/posts/10153189125206006 |
| 00:46.32 | mckenziemc | that's not all it would take, Amarande |
| 00:46.33 | mckenziemc | stop now |
| 00:49.08 | Torhal | stops mckenziemc from getting sent to prison. |
| 00:49.47 | mckenziemc | stabs Torhal in gratitude. |
| 00:50.11 | Torhal | sews Amarande's mouth to mckenziemc's ear in retaliation. |
| 00:51.44 | mckenziemc | that wasn't very nice :( |
| 00:57.57 | Primer | Ok, this bug is really starting to bother me. I have to /rl at the start of every bg because there are always people missing in my raid frames |
| 00:58.55 | mckenziemc | good ol' taint |
| 01:10.53 | Primer | Would that be in the taint log? |
| 01:11.04 | Primer | That's one thing I never considered |
| 01:11.29 | Primer | taint.log 0kb |
| 01:12.12 | mckenziemc | might need to play with the log levels |
| 01:12.25 | Primer | Guess I'll have to look that up |
| 01:12.29 | mckenziemc | i have no clue really, just know blizzard's frames like to break if you use addon- |
| 01:12.34 | Primer | Unless you're feeling generous :) |
| 01:12.57 | mckenziemc | addons* |
| 01:13.03 | Primer | I've reported this to breser before but he insists it's some other addon interfering |
| 01:13.07 | Primer | This is PB4, btw |
| 01:13.16 | Primer | A raid frame I simply cannot live without |
| 01:14.17 | pompy | have you tried grid(1 or 2) ? |
| 01:14.23 | Primer | I refuse |
| 01:14.38 | Primer | PB4 is by far the most configurable raid frame addon ever |
| 01:14.50 | Primer | I like how it's ultimately configurable |
| 01:15.11 | Primer | For example, I show my individual hots on players on my resto druid |
| 01:15.22 | Primer | and only those I care to track |
| 01:15.37 | Primer | for example, I can omit wild growth, since I can't control who gets that |
| 01:26.28 | Torhal | performs string interpolation on Neffi. |
| 01:30.45 | *** join/#wowuidev ScratchMonkey (~quassel@c-24-6-1-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 01:59.15 | kd3 | the long-lost telepresence robot crossed the atlantic again |
| 01:59.22 | kd3 | https://www.fedex.com/apps/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=806020716375&cntry_code=us |
| 02:01.19 | *** join/#wowuidev MysticalOS (~Myst@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/DBM/MysticalOS) |
| 02:01.36 | *** join/#wowuidev karl_w_w (~karl_w_w@110-175-132-56.tpgi.com.au) |
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| 02:06.27 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 02:15.49 | Primer | I wonder if it's time to blacklist the youtube local servers again |
| 02:16.10 | Primer | I can't get 1080 on this one video. It's a fucking stutter fest |
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| 02:31.39 | Torhal | kd3: Is that something you're supposed to be receiving? |
| 02:35.16 | Torhal | kd3: Apparently this sort of thing has been going on for years - https://goo.gl/cAMvfA |
| 02:47.21 | kd3 | torhal, not me, no. it was linked on HackerNews yesterday |
| 02:47.29 | Torhal | Aaah |
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| 03:01.33 | Fisker | hey Torhal |
| 03:03.19 | Torhal | hey Fisker |
| 03:03.24 | Torhal | Tarantula surprise? |
| 03:05.42 | Fisker | hey Torhal |
| 03:05.42 | Fisker | no |
| 03:05.58 | Torhal | Oh, ok. |
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| 04:04.19 | kd3 | huh, big comcast outage |
| 04:04.25 | kd3 | lucky I'm not caught up in it... |
| 04:04.29 | kd3 | https://downdetector.com/status/comcast-xfinity/map/ |
| 04:05.02 | mckenziemc | luckily i'm not on comcast :) |
| 04:05.52 | mckenziemc | heh, check out the farther-out zooms |
| 04:06.24 | kd3 | hah |
| 04:07.40 | mckenziemc | yeah the way they set up the overlay is misleading, zoom in and you see it's only 3 cities in cali |
| 04:08.04 | mckenziemc | err, didn't see LA |
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| 04:08.53 | kd3 | ah, yah, sf and the peninsula got hit, but oakland's in the clear |
| 04:09.29 | Kraps | all of the western hemisphere??? |
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| 04:36.13 | kd3 | the GAO has forms for everything: https://twitter.com/TheRealBuzz/status/626812956148248577/photo/1 |
| 04:46.02 | Dagmar | A shame he wasn't being paid for his mileage. |
| 04:46.30 | mckenziemc | heh |
| 06:04.47 | mckenziemc | "20 applications updated" |
| 06:04.53 | mckenziemc | my phone was off for a few days :o |
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| 06:56.55 | Shirik | https://www.facebook.com/62710731536/photos/a.215625401536.139981.62710731536/10152872579286537/?type=1 |
| 06:57.09 | Shirik | Have you ever wanted to punch someone so much that your monitor almost broke? |
| 06:57.27 | nevcairiel | dont link facebook images, they dont work |
| 06:57.33 | Shirik | that should work |
| 06:57.38 | Shirik | it's public |
| 06:57.43 | nevcairiel | "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" |
| 06:57.46 | Shirik | wtf |
| 06:57.55 | Shirik | how about this? https://www.facebook.com/62710731536/photos/a.215625401536.139981.62710731536/10152872579286537/?type=1&permPage=1 |
| 06:58.03 | nevcairiel | "Sorry, this content isn't available right now" |
| 06:58.06 | Shirik | ......... |
| 06:58.10 | Shirik | fine I'll screenshot it |
| 06:59.00 | Shirik | http://i.gyazo.com/f53a580286247080ca20c9ef4fd60696.png |
| 06:59.28 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 06:59.33 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 06:59.40 | Fisker | how did you know? |
| 06:59.48 | Shirik | I know everything |
| 07:03.23 | Fisker | oh |
| 07:03.51 | Fisker | Do you know the rest of the story to SG:U? |
| 07:04.14 | Fisker | Made myself sad by watching it again :'( |
| 07:05.53 | mckenziemc | Shirik: i've learned not to care |
| 07:06.10 | Shirik | Fisker: SG:A is better |
| 07:06.15 | Fisker | Nope |
| 07:08.38 | Primer | taint.log updates in real time, right? So I can tail it? |
| 07:09.49 | mckenziemc | i would be surprised if it wasn't buffered |
| 07:09.51 | nevcairiel | not real realtime |
| 07:10.03 | nevcairiel | but its not the log you are looking for, anyway |
| 07:10.09 | Shirik | it's buffered for sure |
| 07:10.15 | Shirik | if it was realtime it would be a security risk |
| 07:10.43 | Shirik | I wrote up a proof of concept on that a while back, a way to feed data out of wow via the taint log |
| 07:10.44 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 07:10.44 | Fisker | e |
| 07:10.45 | Fisker | y |
| 07:10.50 | Primer | nevcairiel: so what log am I looking for? |
| 07:11.07 | nevcairiel | probably none |
| 07:11.11 | nevcairiel | not everything is logged |
| 07:11.12 | Primer | sigh |
| 07:11.45 | Primer | since turning on taint log, I've seen this a LOT in the file that's there, which is 2.5M already: 8/3 19:22:24.255 An action was blocked in combat because of taint from MikScrollingBattleText - CompactRaidFrame19:Show() |
| 07:11.47 | Shirik | nevcairiel: do you have a facebook account? I'm still trying to figure out why the hell you couldn't see that picture |
| 07:12.04 | Shirik | Primer: are you on the highest level? |
| 07:12.16 | Shirik | you might consider going up to the highest log level to see where the taint is introduced |
| 07:12.17 | nevcairiel | no facebook account |
| 07:12.26 | Primer | nope, just 1 |
| 07:12.32 | Shirik | maybe you need an account to see it |
| 07:12.44 | pompy | Shirik: it's "custom -public" whatever that custom is what is doing it |
| 07:13.00 | Shirik | maybe they have banned people or something |
| 07:13.25 | nevcairiel | any taint of the built-in raid frames should really not affect any custom raid addon |
| 07:13.27 | mckenziemc | Shirik: i was tempted to write a proof of concept for something similar i reported to Guillotine already |
| 07:13.43 | mckenziemc | they messed up and introduced another possibility :< |
| 07:13.51 | nevcairiel | the built-in raid frames taint easily when you try to disable them |
| 07:14.21 | Primer | so leave it enabled, but just don't show it? |
| 07:16.32 | nevcairiel | like i said, any taint of built-in raid frames should be inconsequential for custom unit frame addons |
| 07:17.21 | nevcairiel | on the other hand, SUF also seems to sometimes miss a few players, and it can usually be fixed by shuffling them into another sub-group and back |
| 07:18.02 | nevcairiel | maybe its a game bug, considering that frame spawning is supposed to be handled by FrameXML templates |
| 07:18.31 | Primer | unfortunately shuffling people around isn't always an option |
| 07:19.18 | Primer | because all I'm doing now is pvp |
| 07:20.35 | nevcairiel | the secure headers should ideally manage the frame spawning for you, so either the game has an issue and GROUP_ROSTER_UPDATE doesn't fire reliably, or something else is broken in the secure code |
| 07:20.44 | nevcairiel | but i didnt bother to debug it much yet |
| 07:20.57 | Primer | One thing I wanted to try was to force a GROUP_ROSTER_UPDATE |
| 07:21.05 | Primer | but I haven't gotten the code to work |
| 07:21.17 | nevcairiel | you cant force events on the secure code, you would taint it and break everything |
| 07:21.24 | Primer | lovely |
| 07:21.47 | nevcairiel | the easy answer would be to just call SecureGroupHeader_Update(frame) |
| 07:21.56 | nevcairiel | which is what the event handler does |
| 07:22.00 | nevcairiel | but thats taint prone :) |
| 07:22.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~industria@ip-213-127-162-6.ip.prioritytelecom.net) |
| 07:22.54 | nevcairiel | another work-around might be to hide and show the group header |
| 07:23.03 | nevcairiel | because SecureGroupHeader_Update is called in OnShow in a secure way |
| 07:24.01 | nevcairiel | or setting an attribute s hould trigger it as well |
| 07:24.02 | Primer | Perhaps you can suggest some literal code I could try? |
| 07:24.18 | Primer | I can reproduce this problem every time I join a bg |
| 07:24.25 | Primer | there's always at least one frame missing |
| 07:25.01 | nevcairiel | i dont know how to reference the PB4 group headers, but if you have a ref, just run header:SetAttribute("_forceUpdate", "foo") |
| 07:25.14 | nevcairiel | (any attribute/value combo would work) |
| 07:44.48 | Primer | Don't most addons define a global on themselves? |
| 07:44.53 | Primer | PitBull4 is a global table |
| 07:44.59 | Primer | with a lot of crap in it |
| 07:45.27 | nevcairiel | most do, yes |
| 07:45.33 | Primer | a LOT |
| 07:45.37 | Primer | still scrolling it |
| 07:45.57 | Primer | I suppose it's a good bet there'd be a reference to it in there? |
| 07:47.35 | nebula169 | Primer: no, but the naming scheme is PitBull4_(EnemryGroups|PetGroups|Groups)_[layout name] |
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| 07:49.36 | Primer | Any way to enumerate globals with a wildcard? |
| 07:50.10 | Primer | for i,v in pairs(_G)..? |
| 07:50.21 | mckenziemc | for k,v in pairs(_G) do if type(k)=="string" and k:match("blah") do print(k,v) end end |
| 07:50.30 | Primer | lovely |
| 07:51.27 | mckenziemc | s/") do/") then/ |
| 07:52.01 | mckenziemc | suppose that was a bad choice |
| 07:53.05 | Primer | yeah, got it |
| 07:54.07 | Primer | Ok, so there's PitBull4_Groups_{Party,Raid,40_man_raid} |
| 07:54.20 | nebula169 | like i said...they match the layout name |
| 07:54.27 | Primer | which coincides with the |
| 07:54.29 | Primer | that |
| 07:54.42 | nebula169 | oh, group name, whatever |
| 07:55.37 | Primer | Well, Raid is the one that matches everything from 5 to 25 man |
| 07:55.49 | Primer | And yes, it's group |
| 07:55.59 | Primer | it matches party as well |
| 07:56.08 | Primer | Sooooooo |
| 07:56.36 | Primer | /run PitBull4_Groups_Raid:SetAttribute("_forceUpdate","foo") |
| 07:56.38 | Primer | ? |
| 07:56.46 | Primer | Presuming that's the correct reference? |
| 07:56.51 | nebula169 | can setattribute in combat |
| 07:56.53 | nebula169 | can't** |
| 07:57.15 | Primer | That's fine, because the raid frames are missing in the staging area of the bg |
| 07:57.25 | Primer | which causes me to /rl at the start of EVERY bg |
| 07:58.26 | nebula169 | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:59.30 | Primer | and there's no taint there? |
| 07:59.58 | nebula169 | no, it does it by calling SetAttribute on the header |
| 08:00.00 | Primer | so are you familiar with this issue? |
| 08:00.13 | nebula169 | no, but semi familar with pb |
| 08:00.28 | Primer | Yes, I know you're familiar with PB :) |
| 08:11.28 | mckenziemc | could've fooled me, i figured he'd be nebulous |
| 08:15.10 | mckenziemc | ~lart mckenziemc |
| 08:15.10 | purl | holds mckenziemc to the floor and spanks him with a cat-o-nine-tails |
| 08:15.17 | mckenziemc | :O |
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| 08:16.44 | Primer | This can't be good |
| 08:21.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Pac (~pac2722@203-219-137-117.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:37.01 | karl_w_w | inflicts good upon Primer |
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| 09:07.39 | Gnarfoz | I wanted to see some IRC horse racing :( |
| 09:07.53 | nevcairiel | ..wah |
| 09:11.46 | Gnarfoz | you probably have joins/parts/quits ignored? |
| 09:11.48 | Gnarfoz | ;-) |
| 09:12.32 | nevcairiel | of course |
| 09:12.35 | nevcairiel | they are just spam |
| 09:12.47 | mckenziemc | did you call? |
| 09:19.01 | Gnarfoz | 10:16:12-->IRCHORSERACING has joined |
| 09:24.53 | Dagmar | ...because they really don't mention much about what happens when you are basically rolling out a sweeping _breakfix_ |
| 09:24.58 | Dagmar | @#$@$ wrongchan |
| 09:49.58 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121.98.40.153) |
| 09:49.58 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 09:50.40 | bluspacecow | I am summoned ! Simca check your PMs :P |
| 09:51.01 | Fisker | hey bluspacecow |
| 09:51.03 | bluspacecow | I want to go buy dinner but its raining |
| 09:51.05 | bluspacecow | :| |
| 09:51.08 | bluspacecow | wat do ? |
| 09:54.19 | karl_w_w | take an umbrella? |
| 09:54.24 | karl_w_w | get wet? |
| 09:54.28 | karl_w_w | go hungry? |
| 09:54.36 | karl_w_w | have it delivered? |
| 09:55.02 | karl_w_w | send Fisker malicious messages? |
| 09:55.10 | Simca_ | bluspacecow: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1822797-New-Expansion-General-Discussion?p=35256878&viewfull=1#post35256878 |
| 09:55.45 | bluspacecow | Thank you Simca |
| 09:56.14 | Fisker | hey Simca_ |
| 09:56.17 | Fisker | not hey bluspacecow |
| 09:56.24 | bluspacecow | so mean |
| 09:56.48 | Simca_ | np bluspacecow |
| 09:57.23 | Simca_ | it's a relatively recent change (~1 month) so maybe this is first BNA update since then |
| 09:58.16 | Simca_ | I suspect they did in part in response to having accidentally leaked WC3 pictures |
| 09:58.17 | karl_w_w | is gaben canadian? |
| 09:58.21 | bluspacecow | so they removed catalog_images as it was pretty much junk data that wasnât used? |
| 09:58.54 | Simca_ | i think it's more like that's how they used to do it until a few weeks ago |
| 09:59.34 | Simca_ | they probably figure that it is easier for them this way (don't have to update clients to include new pictures to update background art) |
| 10:00.01 | Simca_ | and that everyone has a connection able to download a few MB of pictures every couple of months |
| 10:00.32 | bluspacecow | but that leak was on 27/11/14 afaik. Itâs taken _this_ long for the Battle.net team to work out a way of not leaking that sort of thing ? |
| 10:00.58 | nevcairiel | i still wonder if the wc3 thing was just a mistake, or if they ever plan to do something with it |
| 10:01.28 | Simca_ | the latter i'm sure, but who knows if it will ever see the light of day |
| 10:01.44 | Simca_ | and bluspacecow i'm surprised it only took them 9 months |
| 10:01.51 | Simca_ | :) |
| 10:01.52 | nevcairiel | a wc3hd would be something i'm sure a whole lot of people would enjoy |
| 10:02.13 | nevcairiel | in any case, there probably was no pressing reason to fix that, nothing new to leak in the time being |
| 10:02.36 | bluspacecow | in any case its shower tiems! |
| 10:03.03 | Simca_ | true, now there is (expansion hi) and they don't want to deploy a new client to make those picture changes |
| 10:08.55 | *** join/#wowuidev hizuro_ (~hizuro@WoWUIDev/Broker-Everything/GuildApplicantTracker/hizuro) |
| 10:37.11 | blucleancow | wtf whole foods : http://imgur.com/gallery/tNl0e1J |
| 10:37.19 | blucleancow | asparagus |
| 10:37.22 | blucleancow | in water |
| 10:37.29 | blucleancow | for $5.99 |
| 10:37.50 | blucleancow | not even juice made from asparagus. or juice extracted from asparagus. |
| 11:09.45 | *** join/#wowuidev Hazal (~Mikkel@0x5e910d43.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 11:11.31 | karl_w_w | wow that water is infected with horrible, horrible asparagus |
| 11:34.41 | rid_ | (: |
| 11:37.10 | VIad | yuck that delicious aspargus is ruined by all the moisture |
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| 12:45.32 | mitch0 | that fine moisture is ruined by the fugly asparagus |
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| 13:03.46 | n0rp3d | top kek |
| 13:04.03 | bluspacecow | i is back! |
| 13:09.52 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 13:16.12 | n0rp3d | no he isnt |
| 13:18.31 | *** part/#wowuidev n0rp3d (~roma@89.28.115.9) |
| 13:22.28 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:28.19 | *** join/#wowuidev j311yf1sh_ (~j311yf1sh@220-245-77-133.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:42.19 | VIad | karl_w_w: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HfVdLEpJzo |
| 13:42.55 | karl_w_w | yeah i watched it |
| 13:43.39 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 13:47.47 | VIad | crap navi just pooped and lost :( |
| 13:56.43 | karl_w_w | VIad, were these seperate events or did they lose because they were busy pooping? |
| 13:56.53 | VIad | :( |
| 13:57.00 | VIad | they were stronger some years ago |
| 13:57.09 | VIad | I guess being the champ makes you slack |
| 14:05.09 | VIad | didnt know washington dc citizens couldn't vote :p |
| 14:05.37 | *** join/#wowuidev jaxdahl2 (foobar@ypsilon.residential.okstate.edu) |
| 14:18.05 | *** join/#wowuidev yalb (xsbot@unaffiliated/mniip/bot/xsbot) |
| 14:27.54 | jleclanche | VIad: LWT? |
| 14:28.07 | VIad | ofc |
| 14:28.12 | jleclanche | was a good one this week |
| 14:28.37 | VIad | technically DC lives under dictatorship |
| 14:28.57 | jleclanche | well that's partly true in any case |
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| 14:50.19 | Gnarfoz | VIad: 535 dictators? |
| 14:50.40 | VIad | :D |
| 14:55.05 | VIad | hope blizz announces matchmaking pug system |
| 14:55.45 | VIad | a mode where I can mark what I wanna do and queue up, then get matched with people on my level (i.e. with history using the match making and got scored similarly to me on their past tries, e..g) |
| 14:56.20 | VIad | can't be that hard |
| 14:56.36 | VIad | anything is better than the proving ground medals :p those are just shit tbh |
| 14:58.01 | nevcairiel | matchmaking doesnt really work for pve |
| 14:58.09 | nevcairiel | it barely works for pvp |
| 14:58.16 | VIad | opened up the finder, searched for a while and found a group advertising for 700 ilvl and iskar/soc/fel and I am like yeah, description looks nice, ilvl is good, I wanna do that. 30 people join. no one even does NORMAL strategy on the boss, wipe 2 times really fast |
| 14:58.47 | VIad | but if I manage to kill a boss after hours of pug dread, I wish the match making would next time +1 me and group me with others like that |
| 14:59.11 | VIad | so most would be just like me, people that wiped like 30 times on a boss and had like dozen of raid group with scrubs, and finally had some luck to actually get a working raid to down a boss |
| 14:59.40 | VIad | entry would be hard, but later on the score you obtain by just doing stuff in the match making would at least group you with others that did the same |
| 15:00.11 | VIad | pve at least has underlying "proper" ways to do a boss, while pvp doesnt have a recipe. you can just GY camp in AV and win, doing no strategy too :p |
| 15:00.22 | VIad | you can't just ignore strategy in pve for most bosses |
| 15:00.34 | VIad | anyway an improvement would be good. |
| 15:02.12 | VIad | I am paying 10$ per month, I'd like some of that to go to pug matchmaking thanks. at least give me that :p |
| 15:05.58 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 15:08.17 | Semlar | "a mode where I can mark what I wanna do and queue up, then get matched with people on my level" you mean LFG? |
| 15:08.27 | VIad | skill based |
| 15:08.47 | VIad | if you do it a lot it would be nice if it was noted down. i.e. normal/heroic, not lfg with mindless zerging. |
| 15:08.48 | nevcairiel | judging skill in pve is pretty hard for the game to do |
| 15:08.57 | nevcairiel | in pvp it works as it can somehow measure success and failure ratio |
| 15:09.16 | Semlar | what would the system do with bad players |
| 15:09.23 | Semlar | just prevent them from queueing? |
| 15:09.29 | VIad | match them together |
| 15:09.35 | Semlar | to do what |
| 15:09.38 | VIad | first boss |
| 15:09.40 | nevcairiel | and it would result in "i cant help you in this alt raid, we might wipe and ruin my pve rating" |
| 15:09.54 | VIad | no, it can be a specific group making system |
| 15:09.59 | VIad | added on top of the current one |
| 15:11.09 | Semlar | i only wipe on trash nevcairiel |
| 15:11.26 | VIad | literally no hc progress in two weeks due to finding groups that seem good, then just wipes for ages. people don't even do normal mode strat. it would be nice if I dont have to do that again if I actually manage to down a boss after hours of scrubs -_- |
| 15:11.53 | VIad | next time if I could at least get grouped with others like me, I could avoid the majority of the scrubs and perhaps have a 8 hour raid on fel lord, and not a whole week :p |
| 15:11.59 | nevcairiel | if you want progression, find a guild :P |
| 15:12.09 | VIad | why can't we have something in between? |
| 15:12.12 | Semlar | he's already gone into great detail about how he can't play with a guild |
| 15:12.13 | VIad | between lfr and guilds |
| 15:12.33 | VIad | a match making system could be one way to help fix that |
| 15:12.40 | nevcairiel | the thing is, most people are in guilds, so the group you are looking for is very rare to begin with |
| 15:12.50 | nevcairiel | and often based on a guild thats lacking people and just inviting a few extras |
| 15:12.54 | VIad | guilds could use it too. many guild members pug in between raids, e.g. |
| 15:13.12 | nevcairiel | we cant have something like that because it wouldnt work |
| 15:13.17 | nevcairiel | matchmaking is a flawed concept to begin with |
| 15:13.35 | nevcairiel | its too easy to game any such system, and ruin it for everyone else |
| 15:14.07 | Semlar | we have an automated group system, it's for LFR |
| 15:14.33 | Semlar | if you want to do higher difficulty content you need to vet your own group |
| 15:14.35 | VIad | I guess league and dota shouldnt have bothered since matchmaking 10 people in ranked mode is impossible |
| 15:15.05 | nevcairiel | it kinda works in pvp because you actually have a hard loss condition |
| 15:15.08 | Semlar | i suspect matchmaking a team in pvp is not the same as pve |
| 15:15.11 | nevcairiel | and matches are relatively short |
| 15:15.38 | nevcairiel | (and team size relatively small) |
| 15:15.40 | VIad | so have a boss based rating and match up people with similar rating. if youve done it 10 times, you get others in that same range. |
| 15:15.52 | VIad | if you have done it 0 times then ofc you gonna suffer, not like you dont already :p |
| 15:16.14 | Semlar | i also recall people complaining about the high requirements set on groups as it is |
| 15:16.46 | VIad | that is just because people think setting 710 ilvl and curve req is fixing it |
| 15:17.23 | nevcairiel | if you can find enough people like that, chances are that your raid is going to go much more smoothly |
| 15:17.48 | VIad | many just have crap gear with high ilvl in bags or fake achievement links. besides it doesnt help you get going if you havent killed the boss yet, just makes a wall for those with 0 kills on a boss but that know the fight inside out on normal and have the skill to do it in hc |
| 15:18.18 | VIad | at least a system would be more fair imo |
| 15:18.25 | Semlar | so what would matchmaking do if you have no kills |
| 15:18.26 | VIad | hence why some sort of matchmaking would be good imo |
| 15:18.39 | VIad | you could accumulate score |
| 15:18.50 | VIad | a kill is worth some, trying a lot is worth almost nothing |
| 15:18.58 | VIad | something like that, shrug |
| 15:19.14 | Semlar | and if it keeps putting you with other people who haven't killed anything and you can't actually get anything down? |
| 15:19.18 | VIad | doing the right thing, like throwing eye to the right person, gives some points, e.g. |
| 15:19.30 | VIad | if you join retards and throw the eye like 10 times correctly |
| 15:19.39 | VIad | you'd get in a bit better group the next time you queue :p |
| 15:19.46 | VIad | with more people doing something properly at least |
| 15:19.53 | nevcairiel | the point is, pug raiding isnt the focus of the game, its organized raiding in guild, and as such, developing such a system isnt worth the time of the devs =p |
| 15:20.01 | VIad | "oh no but what if people do the eye efficiently to troll the rating system!" |
| 15:20.09 | VIad | I pay 10$ |
| 15:20.28 | VIad | only fun thing I got was tanaan being a non guild raider |
| 15:20.45 | VIad | I dont consider timewalking/mythics new content |
| 15:20.46 | nevcairiel | so join a guild, and forget your made up reasons not to |
| 15:20.54 | Semlar | look, i raided every week without a guild in BC |
| 15:21.08 | Semlar | and it sure as hell wasn't as easy to put a group together |
| 15:21.14 | VIad | yes sure it was nice when most people were from the same realm and you made connections |
| 15:21.25 | VIad | at least the time and effort would pay off slowly if you werent an idiot |
| 15:21.44 | VIad | but pugs means just random people each time you go, people have no incentive to even be nice |
| 15:22.11 | VIad | I raided a lot back in the day but cba now but I still enjoy pve, but pug is dreadful- _- |
| 15:22.22 | Semlar | how is it that your schedule is so chaotic that you simply can't find anyone else to put on your friends list to raid together at more or less the same times |
| 15:22.25 | VIad | and I see a way to improve it by adding something more on top of the current group finder |
| 15:23.08 | VIad | tried finding a guild on wowprogress |
| 15:23.11 | nevcairiel | like I said,there just arent enough people that would care to make it worth it |
| 15:23.22 | nevcairiel | you want something that allows proper progression raids through PUGs |
| 15:23.26 | nevcairiel | but thats just not going to happen |
| 15:23.34 | nevcairiel | because people do progression in their guild raids |
| 15:23.40 | nevcairiel | and only go farming content in PUGs |
| 15:23.41 | Semlar | blizzard doesn't WANT to make a ranking system for players in pve |
| 15:23.50 | Dagmar | They have an incentive to be nice. It's called "being raised by parents" |
| 15:24.18 | Dagmar | If they were raised by howler monkeys or wolves, _then_ perhaps they have no incentive to be decent to strangers. |
| 15:25.41 | VIad | I think it would be a good idea, and would be nice to brain storm it. would help new players get involved more, until they found a guild if they wanted to reach higher goals. |
| 15:26.38 | VIad | or maybe we could just make guilds cross realm to make it even easier to play together. or add guild alliances where smaller guilds could merge half way, play together, than actually merge if it worked out |
| 15:26.57 | VIad | anyway will be interesting to see what my 10$ will get me with next expansion |
| 15:27.29 | nevcairiel | that gets you the right to use their servers, nothing else |
| 15:27.35 | nevcairiel | stop being an entitled idiot =P |
| 15:27.50 | VIad | are you always bitter, nevcairiel? |
| 15:28.00 | nevcairiel | just sick of entitled people in the internet |
| 15:28.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (~industria@ip-213-127-162-6.ip.prioritytelecom.net) |
| 15:28.17 | nevcairiel | I pay $10 a month, they better do what I ask, and now! |
| 15:28.54 | Dagmar | Rating systems can always be gamed |
| 15:29.30 | VIad | what ever. I just read basically "can't be done" in most of the replies about a pve match making system, so obviously you had no interest to actually brainstorm anything. |
| 15:29.47 | VIad | Dagmar: yes, and if gaming it means doing strategy and succeeding then I think that is a win for all. |
| 15:29.52 | Dagmar | No. |
| 15:30.03 | Dagmar | I mean exactly what it looks like I'm saying. Rating systems can _always_ be gamed. |
| 15:30.35 | Dagmar | Feel free to think about it again next week when you shave. |
| 15:30.35 | VIad | sure. doesn't mean we give up. look at all the other rating system games. |
| 15:30.59 | Dagmar | Even _chess_ players have to deal with it |
| 15:31.21 | Semlar | you can't dismiss reasons why it would be difficult or impossible to implement what you want |
| 15:31.39 | nevcairiel | dont compare matchmaking in pvp, thats just fundamentally different - and required, as the difficulty of the enemies has to adapt, otherwise you get no meaningful matches at all |
| 15:31.59 | nevcairiel | in pve the enemies are always the same |
| 15:32.41 | VIad | since bosses have a recipe how impossible is it to rate the players based on their role and performance? |
| 15:33.02 | *** join/#wowuidev |Jelly| (~|Jelly|@c-24-6-248-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:33.04 | Dagmar | In that it would allow players to find ways to flog "can't lose" situations endlessly |
| 15:33.28 | Dagmar | Generally the weak point in a rating system is the matchmaking aspect |
| 15:34.06 | Dagmar | Find _one_ tank and spank boss, score 9,000. |
| 15:34.38 | Dagmar | At least with PvP your choices are 1) jump into the lists, or 2) turn off your PC |
| 15:34.48 | VIad | great. so next time you do that boss you wouldn't wipe. you know your job. |
| 15:35.06 | VIad | boss based match making, you cant judge a guy by a number for an entire raid instance |
| 15:35.11 | nevcairiel | most pugs, no matter how successful, will never have players of all equal skill level, there is some that are strong and carrying the group, and some that are weaker and still learning - and thats fine, unless you are in hardcore progression, thats how most raids work. if you start ranking, then you might have two groups, one with the good players, and one with the bad players. for the good players, this is great, for the bad players - |
| 15:35.11 | nevcairiel | its absolutely horrible |
| 15:35.34 | Dagmar | ...and in the meantime the "rating system" shows you have a really high ranking, so you are of course better than everyone else and get to behave like a dickbag. |
| 15:35.55 | VIad | ugh its like... wait. |
| 15:36.55 | VIad | you open the group finder. you click the group making tab (an addition, not changing anything else, everything is as is it is right now), you click bosses you wish to kill and queue. you get a popup at some point. you go wack boss. thats it |
| 15:37.15 | VIad | next time you enter youd probably find more people that did something similar to you. |
| 15:37.59 | Dagmar | The saving grace of LFR is that it's so easy unless you're an utter post, you can generally get through it without killing yourself and everyone else around you |
| 15:38.27 | Dagmar | ...which doesn't mean people don't _try_ every now and then. |
| 15:40.55 | Dagmar | Two weeks ago we started doing Pepe. We were three bosses in before _our_ guild leader realized he actually _was_ the raid leader. |
| 15:41.05 | Dagmar | Thank god mostly everyone knew what they were doing. |
| 15:41.22 | nevcairiel | pepe? |
| 15:41.26 | Dagmar | Oh dear. |
| 15:41.42 | Dagmar | Yeah. Kill basically all the raid bosses and heroic instances with a bird on your head |
| 15:41.52 | nevcairiel | oh, we just did that in lfr |
| 15:42.22 | Dagmar | In your garrison is a little bird. He's in the tree between the two larger buildings on the east side of your garrison from the town hall (to your right if you stand at the fountain and face it) |
| 15:42.28 | Dagmar | Yeah we were doing it in LFR |
| 15:42.42 | nevcairiel | its not like you actually need to know anything in lfr, just go and kill |
| 15:42.59 | Dagmar | Thank god |
| 15:43.18 | nevcairiel | even mroe so if one of the experienced players is a tank or so |
| 15:43.25 | nevcairiel | that can carry an entire group |
| 15:43.31 | nevcairiel | a tank with no clue just makes lfr so annoyiung |
| 15:43.33 | nevcairiel | -u |
| 15:43.40 | *** join/#wowuidev ZorbaTHut (~tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 15:44.14 | Dagmar | The one thing I don't see people discussing about Pepe is that the second achievement with him has the same forms as the halloween wangs |
| 15:44.16 | Dagmar | er wands |
| 15:44.22 | Amarande | nevcairiel: that's kind of a vicious problem, though |
| 15:44.36 | Dagmar | Being a goddamn pack rat, that's the first thing I'm going to experiement with once I have the permanent Pepe |
| 15:44.40 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: people are still wtf'ing about how that second achievement works |
| 15:44.42 | Amarande | nevcairiel: a tank with no clue makes the group experience annoying, so people pick on the tank |
| 15:44.52 | nevcairiel | apparently blue posters said its not yet possible to do it |
| 15:44.58 | nevcairiel | maybe it does only come with halloween |
| 15:45.23 | Amarande | which results in people deciding they don't want to learn to tank because if you're not already an experienced tank and the content is not new, you piss off your group mates |
| 15:45.28 | Dagmar | I havent' seen anything about blue posters saying it's not possible, but i've seen a number of people commenting that GMs are claiming it's possible currently |
| 15:45.33 | Amarande | which results in a tank shortage, which makes people wish more people would be tanks, but then people try and piss off the group so they decide they don't want to be a tank which results in a tank shortage ... |
| 15:46.18 | nevcairiel | Dagmar: https://twitter.com/Muffinus/status/625757922824290305 |
| 15:46.35 | Dagmar | nevcairiel: Thank god |
| 15:46.37 | Amarande | so then eventually you have to bribe the tanks with special shinies for being "the needed role" and then you piss off the healers, as we saw in late cata. :) |
| 15:46.59 | Dagmar | nevcairiel: I found the number of people searching and finding _nothing_ to be really distressing. That's why I started looking into what _wasn't_ being tried |
| 15:48.16 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yeah, rating systems are constantly gamed, it's why it's impossible to reliably compare chess ratings over the years anymore |
| 15:48.30 | Dagmar | Amarande: We ran a bit short on tanks at one point. I offered to respect my healer druid as a tank and have a go. ;) |
| 15:48.39 | Dagmar | "You just hit Mangle over and over, right?" |
| 15:49.03 | Dagmar | ...and thank you for being the voice of reason about rating systems. |
| 15:49.12 | Amarande | due to the steady inflationary effect produced by the fact that unlike the olden days, nowadays top players can pretty much essentially hide away from the common player and only have to play in elite tournaments where only other top rated players are invited |
| 15:49.34 | Dagmar | It's very hard for people to grasp that they're not just "really hard" but that they're fundamentally impossible unless you control literally everything about them. |
| 15:49.50 | Amarande | happens on ICC too, the top rated folks pretty much have auto-decline set up so unless your rating is high enough they just robo-reject your challenge altogether |
| 15:50.59 | Amarande | (although FICS/ICC's implementation of Elo is kind of funky, depending on how much you've played recently, if your rating is too far above the opponent's you can actually be in a lose-lose situation ... sometimes the formula will cause you to lose rating points even if you win) |
| 15:52.33 | Amarande | Dagmar: mind you, the opposite end of things is that if you control things too badly you get situations like what happened to top rated Arena players in later BC |
| 15:53.01 | Amarande | try to control *that*, though, and you more or less ruin the fun of the game altogether for too many players :( |
| 15:55.55 | Amarande | Top rated players were getting pissed off because they practically couldn't play, as the #2 best team to queue would almost always get matched with the #3 instead |
| 15:56.20 | Amarande | So they'd arrange out of band for other teams high enough rated to get matched to them to like, actually be online ... and for that they got 72 hour bans and their PvP gear stripped |
| 15:57.16 | Amarande | Trouble is the only other way you can do it is to have truly random PvP matchups, but that basically demoralises huge numbers of players because then you pretty much can't play casual for fun at all unless you enjoy being whupped constantly, as you'll likely pretty often get matched up against rabid e-sports kids |
| 16:16.56 | Dagmar | You mean, it'll demoralize about 50% of the players |
| 16:22.18 | Amarande | Dagmar: could be more than that, depending on whether the rating/performance curve is smooth or "hockey stick" (think American income-to-percentile graph) |
| 16:23.00 | Dagmar | I think the level of people who would be "terrorized" by losing 54% of their coin-toss championship matches would be disturbingly high |
| 16:23.27 | Amarande | hah, and now you've reminded me why football overtime is stupid :) |
| 16:24.10 | Amarande | (which is probably why basically no other sports besides american football use it :D) |
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| 16:32.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 16:51.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Unkle (~mconvers@USRWC-MCONVERS.ddns.nominum.com) |
| 16:51.13 | Unkle | Station! |
| 16:51.40 | Ressy | zomg! Unkle! :D |
| 16:52.40 | Unkle | Sup? |
| 16:52.48 | Ressy | How are ya? :) |
| 16:53.36 | Unkle | That's a complicated question, the answer to which boils down to "Screaming and Hydrocodone and Despair" |
| 16:54.08 | Ressy | nods |
| 16:59.40 | zenzelezz | well, this was interesting. About two weeks ago, we got a Galaxy Tab Active at work to test alongside the normal Galaxy Tab for our product. The external NFC readers we use wouldn't work with the Active, but more interestingly... one of the two NFC readers (two different models), when disconnected, would make the Active abruptly reboot, while the normal Tab ran fine |
| 17:00.12 | zenzelezz | talked to Samsung, sent them a reader, and they debugged it. Turned out to be a null pointer bug in Qualcomm's USB driver on the Active o_O |
| 17:00.29 | Dagmar | Ding! |
| 17:00.50 | Dagmar | Told ya it was likely a driver problem from the way it made the device spontaneously asplode |
| 17:02.05 | zenzelezz | yup |
| 17:02.40 | zenzelezz | turned out to be a special circumstance |
| 17:05.21 | zenzelezz | the NFC reader has two "slots", one for a SAM chip, and one for the NFC card chip. Apparently both are seen as USB units in the system. Something about how they were registered ment the system sent two disconnection events when the plug was pulled, and the driver happily decided not to check the pointer it was handed for the second event |
| 17:05.50 | Dagmar | Ooof |
| 17:05.52 | zenzelezz | the non-Active tab uses a different chip, whose drivers do verify it |
| 17:39.59 | *** join/#wowuidev maunot (~PANKER@mobile-access-6df07b-252.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:45.22 | Amarande | zenzelezz, you're not also using windows 10 for extra fun times are you? |
| 17:45.46 | Amarande | apparently drivers are still kind of a pain there, some devices are still not 100% supported and they only just fixed the Nvidia tug of war |
| 17:46.00 | Primer | heh, tidyplates put (broken) next to the "Highlight mobs tanked by other tanks" |
| 17:46.20 | zenzelezz | Amarande: yes, our Samsung Android tablets are running Windows 10 |
| 17:46.36 | nevcairiel | how innovative of them |
| 17:47.46 | Primer | nevcairiel: while testing this raid frame issue last night I was in a bg where one of the players was "unknown" and gray in /raidinfo the entire time |
| 17:47.50 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 17:48.00 | Dagmar | Well, at least you won't run low on cutting boards for awhile. |
| 17:48.18 | Primer | Although I never verified if we actually had 10 players. It was ToK. |
| 17:48.26 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:48.44 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:48.49 | Amarande | zenzelezz: I mean on the computers |
| 17:48.52 | Amarande | oh, you're not connecting the tablets to a PC |
| 17:48.56 | Amarande | my bad |
| 17:48.58 | nevcairiel | Primer: the unknown appears to be a game bug, it shows like that in the default ui raid panel too sometimes |
| 17:49.02 | zenzelezz | Amarande: :) |
| 17:49.31 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:49.54 | Amarande | windows 10 on mobile devices may not be all that great anyway |
| 17:49.58 | Primer | nevcairiel: the problem with raid frames does manifest itself when there are no unknowns though |
| 17:50.28 | Amarande | based on what I'm reading about it, I'm not 100% sure whether it's smart enough to know if you're on a limited quota connection when it's forcing updates down your throat |
| 17:50.37 | Primer | I've yet to effectively test this. BG queues have sucked a lot lately, even as heals |
| 17:51.13 | Amarande | I should hope it does, otherwise Nadella's got even more of a disaster when people mass complain that their Windows phones are only getting EDGE speeds (because they keep using up their high speed data allotment on updates) |
| 17:51.23 | nevcairiel | Primer: yeah i know |
| 17:51.30 | Primer | Amarande: people use windows phones? |
| 17:51.37 | Amarande | Primer: some people do, apparently |
| 17:51.41 | nevcairiel | i'm not sure i wo uld rule out the other problem to be a game issue too, but maybe there is a workaround nevertheless |
| 17:51.52 | Amarande | I've considered one every now and then, but the tiny app ecosystem has turned me off to it |
| 17:52.00 | Primer | nevcairiel: /rl always fixes it |
| 17:52.08 | Primer | but then it comes back if people leave/join |
| 17:52.11 | nevcairiel | yea |
| 17:52.37 | nevcairiel | My first hunch would be that the game has the required information, but somehow fails to send an event in some cases, leaving our frames in a de-sync state |
| 17:52.51 | Amarande | no words with friends, no battle.net authenticator, etc. |
| 17:53.04 | nevcairiel | if that is the case, the force-update command should make missing frames appear |
| 17:53.08 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 17:53.09 | Amarande | (not sure if words with friends finally did come out, but I'm pretty sure there still isn't a bnet authenticator for windows mobiles) |
| 17:53.11 | nevcairiel | and we at least know that we're a bit closer |
| 17:53.13 | Primer | that's what I'm hoping for |
| 17:53.33 | Primer | I think I need to make an addon for all the wowlua snippets I have, so I can just macro them |
| 17:53.58 | Amarande | though I'm not sure there really can be a bnet authenticator for windows mobiles without causing hue and cry :( |
| 17:54.00 | Primer | Right now I'm having to /wowlua, select the code, and run |
| 17:54.34 | nevcairiel | you can just macro this |
| 17:54.39 | alestane | Realize it's a bit off-topic, but anyone willing to recommend any resources about securely exposing a small portion of a MySQL database to the outside? I need to give a website on a separate machine access to two fields out of a particular table, but I don't want it able to edit anything or see any other tables or fields. |
| 17:54.40 | Primer | I have this one I use in Ashran that reports how many people lack the song flower buff. It's made me quite unpopular |
| 17:54.52 | nevcairiel | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:54.55 | Primer | the code is too big for 255 characters |
| 17:55.01 | nevcairiel | ah |
| 17:55.09 | nevcairiel | i dont even know what song flower buff is |
| 17:55.16 | Primer | You must not pvp much |
| 17:55.25 | nevcairiel | obviously not |
| 17:55.49 | Primer | It's a flower on the ground in the Dark Woods area of Ashran which gives a 15% stat buff for 1 hour, persisting through death, and stacks to 10 in your bags |
| 17:56.09 | Primer | Yet surprisingly, people seem to not notice it |
| 17:56.13 | mckenziemc | wowlua doesn't provide a way to access the snippets through slash commands? |
| 17:56.26 | Primer | mckenziemc: I haven't found a way |
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| 17:56.45 | Primer | but then I haven't looked too much into it |
| 17:56.52 | mckenziemc | i don't know of it *doing* that but i would think that would've been an obvious feature to add xD |
| 17:56.56 | pompy | https://soundcloud.com/nasa/horse-and-cart |
| 17:57.13 | Amarande | Primer: sure you're the one who's unpopular and it's not just that, well, most people pretty much hate ashran? :) |
| 17:57.45 | Primer | There's also star root tuber in Ashran. Restores 25k health and reduces damage taken by 40% for 10s, 3m CD, stacks to 20. |
| 17:57.47 | *** part/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:57.55 | Amarande | nifty |
| 17:58.00 | Primer | Amarande: I like Ashran |
| 17:58.03 | Dagmar | alestane: Stored procedures is what you need. |
| 17:58.04 | Amarande | also blizzard, try not to be so obviously desperate to get people to come back to Ashran |
| 17:58.11 | Amarande | :P |
| 17:58.13 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 17:58.20 | Dagmar | argh |
| 17:58.26 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 17:58.28 | Dagmar | alestane: Stored procedures is what you need. That's precisely what they're meant for |
| 17:58.29 | Primer | Amarande: I'd contend most people just don't like pvp |
| 17:58.44 | Amarande | Primer: given the way world pvp tends to balance out in wow, I'm not surprised |
| 17:58.49 | alestane | Thanks, Dagmar, I'll look into that. |
| 17:58.49 | mckenziemc | sure you don't mean Primer, Dagmar? |
| 17:58.53 | mckenziemc | nvm |
| 17:58.58 | Primer | I love pvp. I have epic weapons on 4 toons now. |
| 17:59.12 | Primer | Amarande: world pvp is the worst pvp |
| 17:59.14 | Dagmar | alestane: They're so you can put in queries with basically, (optional) fill-in-the-blank spots that a given account can execute. |
| 17:59.23 | Amarande | Primer: as in things being so heavily reliant on whether you are geared to the teeth for it, and if you are not, doesn't even matter if you're GOOD at pvp, Happy Hunger Games and the odds are not in your favour :P |
| 17:59.34 | Dagmar | alestane: ...without giving them full access to a whole table. |
| 17:59.47 | alestane | I created a view and figured I could set privileges on it, but this sounds like I should learn about it. |
| 17:59.55 | Amarande | it's why I gave up on that character on illidan, although with the account wide heirloom system I might give her another go sometime |
| 18:00.14 | Dagmar | alestane: If Steam were using them, they wouldn't have had that little "oopsie" last month. |
| 18:00.16 | Primer | Amarande: It's a trade off in world pvp. Either you keep your pvp gear on in the world because you're afraid to run into the opposing faction |
| 18:00.18 | Amarande | got to the low 40s, went to epl, kept getting my ass owned by alliance kiddies because I didn't have heirlooms |
| 18:00.44 | Amarande | at least there's not really "pvp heirlooms" anymore, but still, if you don't have looms leveling on a pvp server, you're basically easy pickins |
| 18:01.03 | nevcairiel | does pvp gear even activate its extra scaling in normal world pvp |
| 18:01.19 | Primer | got into a bg and the update thing worked! |
| 18:01.42 | nevcairiel | sounds to me like blizzard is missing a event somewhere |
| 18:01.59 | nevcairiel | i should write a small debug snippet to cross reference the actual raid gorup with the SUF frames and print if something is missing |
| 18:02.02 | nevcairiel | maybe i'll do that tomorrow |
| 18:02.11 | nevcairiel | might shed some light |
| 18:03.05 | nevcairiel | considering the same problem seems to plague two raid frames, its more likely to be a blizzard fluke |
| 18:04.58 | Stanzilla | there we go, already they first of the mentioned tools http://pxc-coding.com/de/portfolio/donotspy10/ |
| 18:04.58 | Primer | It was an in-progress bg too |
| 18:05.30 | Primer | normally I only ever see my own player's frame in my raid layout |
| 18:05.38 | Primer | hit the macro and bam, everything came up |
| 18:06.15 | Amarande | I suppose what I really should do with that monk is make her a tank and instance my way up to 100 :S |
| 18:06.21 | Amarande | that way I don't have to encounter alliance kiddos at all |
| 18:06.28 | mckenziemc | so what is the macro, so i can save it for future use? :D |
| 18:06.56 | Amarande | or at least up to 90, since once you're out of crz zones you don't have to worry about world pvp on illidan, native alliance on illidan are about as rare as liberal NRA members |
| 18:07.19 | Primer | mckenziemc: for raid frames not showing up in bgs? Mine is specific to PB4 |
| 18:07.30 | mckenziemc | i use PB too |
| 18:07.31 | Primer | /run PitBull4_Groups_Raid:Update() |
| 18:07.39 | Primer | where "Raid" is the name of the group |
| 18:08.11 | Primer | for k,v in pairs(_G) do if type(k)=="string" and k:match("PitBull4_Group") then print(k,v) end end |
| 18:08.32 | Primer | but you can get the same info from the groups section in /pb |
| 18:09.04 | mckenziemc | could you just blindly /run all of them for a one-size fits all macro? |
| 18:09.10 | nevcairiel | I'll produce some debugging possibly tomorrow, lets see if i can pin it to missing events or just something else |
| 18:14.10 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 18:15.11 | Primer | Ok, I'm in Ashran now, and raid frames are constantly one player behind |
| 18:20.10 | Gnarfoz | alestane: also, mysql's regular permission system is fine-grained enough to achieve what you want |
| 18:20.47 | Gnarfoz | create separate user, only grant select on desired table columns, done (pretty much) |
| 18:21.56 | Gnarfoz | (aaand probably wrap that in some nice TLS or something. I'm not convinced running plain mysql unencrypted across the internet is a great idea...) |
| 18:23.13 | *** join/#wowuidev IRCHORSERACING (~pac2722@203-219-137-117.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 18:24.04 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 18:26.02 | alestane | Gnarfoz, we have it set up so all access goes through ssh at the moment, although I'm trying to work out the best system for this. I am not a security guru, just trying to make sure that my client is not recklessly exposing too much to the world at large. |
| 18:28.06 | Amarande | alestane, if it makes you feel any better, if a hacker wants to break into a system they probably will find a way |
| 18:28.21 | Gnarfoz | if it's going through SSH and there's no outher route from mysqld to the internet... how would they be exposing anything to the world? |
| 18:28.33 | Dagmar | Well the good news is that stored procedures aren't particularly esoteric. |
| 18:28.46 | Amarande | security, pretty much, boils down to delaying tactics, pretty much defend the data at least till it's not worth enough to steal anymore (this is why user identity data is so painful to protect, since it basically never loses value) |
| 18:28.47 | Dagmar | THey should be standard design for most things which require any security at all. |
| 18:29.01 | Dagmar | Amarande: No. |
| 18:29.05 | Amarande | Dagmar: as with all arms races, it never resolves in favour of the defender in the long run. |
| 18:29.17 | Dagmar | ...and yet we have the Internet. |
| 18:29.35 | Dagmar | What security "boils down" to is strategy. Either you have it or you're just wasting a lot of resources. |
| 18:29.55 | Dagmar | There's some very basic principles that most people are simply never exposed to.. |
| 18:29.56 | Amarande | Dagmar: and yet we have multiple major information compromises a year, frequently among mega entities that actually have the resources to retain expert security |
| 18:30.12 | Unkle | Exposing anything SQL to the internet is an invitation to trouble. If you are using mySQL there's plenty of guidance out there for being 'safe.' |
| 18:30.16 | Gnarfoz | not sure what the benefit of a stored procedure would be here |
| 18:30.19 | Dagmar | Amarande: That's because there is no relevant intellgence or skill requirement to being a middle manager. |
| 18:30.28 | mckenziemc | that's not true Amarande |
| 18:30.37 | Amarande | Dagmar: for instance I was reading an article about good and bad password choices/security questions from a few years ago, and one of the commenters praised how well designed the US federal Office of Personnel Management's system security was |
| 18:30.39 | Gnarfoz | Unkle: I think he just said that step is already covered (he's just not sure of it himself?) |
| 18:30.50 | Amarande | ... fast forward to this past winter and OPM ... |
| 18:30.55 | Dagmar | Principle 1. The Principle of Least Privilege. That which is not explicitly allowed is denied by default. |
| 18:31.00 | mckenziemc | if there are alternate targets (or non-malicious opportunities) easier than the defender, then it does resolve in their favor :) |
| 18:31.03 | Unkle | Sorry - crunch time at work so I'm only skimming |
| 18:31.10 | Dagmar | Principle 2. That which we can not not defend against we must _detect_. |
| 18:31.29 | Dagmar | Only when both prevention and detection mechanisms have failed has a security model been broken. |
| 18:32.05 | Gnarfoz | I'm pretty sure you're also fucked when someone steals your data and you know about it |
| 18:32.09 | Dagmar | If all sites followed these polcies then things _would_ come down to simply finding and fixing bugs in software. |
| 18:32.13 | Amarande | Yeah, even when you have detected it, half the time you have to shell out for a free year of LifeLock for all your customers :P |
| 18:32.19 | Gnarfoz | (but why are we talking about THIS now? is it Amarande's fault?) |
| 18:32.29 | Unkle | Usually. |
| 18:32.33 | Gnarfoz | figures |
| 18:32.34 | Dagmar | I blame donmusto. |
| 18:33.00 | mckenziemc | yes Gnarfoz |
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| 18:33.06 | *** join/#wowuidev Guillotine (d8940048@WoWUIDev/Blizzard/Guillotine) |
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| 18:33.42 | Dagmar | Anyway, if you lack a security _strategy_ you really _are_ courting bedlam |
| 18:33.43 | Gnarfoz | alestane and Guillotine joining at nearly the same time? double identity revealed, at last! |
| 18:33.51 | Guillotine | *gasp* |
| 18:33.57 | Dagmar | Might as well go ahead and just rush out a contract for more microwave body scanners. |
| 18:34.17 | Dagmar | ...and perhaps some fancy glasses because you're operating a security theatre. |
| 18:34.18 | Primer | So I was thinking we could automate this raid frame update. To run the code every time combat drops. |
| 18:34.23 | Primer | Perhaps a weak aura for that? |
| 18:34.33 | Gnarfoz | which would actually mean alestane is Guillotine's secret identity, though, since we've met and he said he's Guillotine |
| 18:34.39 | Dagmar | Primer: Can you get it complete before combat resumes? |
| 18:34.45 | Gnarfoz | I'm not sure what the means for my conspiracy theory! |
| 18:34.58 | Primer | Dagmar: not sure what you mean |
| 18:35.18 | Primer | I was under the impression this could not be called in combat |
| 18:35.44 | Dagmar | If you're doing something that looks for combat to end so that it can avoid falling afoul of the combat locks, unless you can somehow get it all to happen in a vanishingly small amount of time there's still going to be a race condition to worry about |
| 18:36.23 | Primer | lovely |
| 18:36.30 | Dagmar | Yeah it does kinda suck |
| 18:36.34 | mckenziemc | once an OnUpdate slot is reached that isn't in-combat, isn't it safe from becoming in combat? |
| 18:36.43 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 18:36.48 | Gnarfoz | should be |
| 18:36.49 | Gnarfoz | but |
| 18:36.53 | alestane | People have seen us both in the same room at BlizzCons, sorry. |
| 18:36.55 | Gnarfoz | there's always the function that tells you |
| 18:37.13 | Gnarfoz | alestane: lies! I haven't, so it can't be true, I only met "your alter ego" |
| 18:37.25 | Gnarfoz | or maybe you were there but I didn't know.:D 2013? |
| 18:37.26 | Dagmar | Even if it were true it would probably still be a lie in many cases |
| 18:37.38 | Dagmar | Sort of like the bullshit in Android docs about onRecieve being a wakelock state |
| 18:38.01 | mckenziemc | locks Dagmar away. |
| 18:38.03 | Gnarfoz | the UI is single-threaded, should it not be intrinsically safe? |
| 18:38.08 | Guillotine | mckenziemc is correct. You should not be able to go from in-combat to not (or visa versa) during one OnUpdate frame. |
| 18:38.56 | Dagmar | Android claims the onRecieve hooks for appWidgets are inside a wakelock so the device can't go right into sleep mode on you |
| 18:39.19 | Dagmar | In practice, this is complete bullshit and I've got an egregiously misbehaving appWidget that proves it on a weekly basis |
| 18:39.26 | Gnarfoz | Android is not WoW UI,though |
| 18:39.33 | Gnarfoz | Primer: http://wowprogramming.com/docs/api/InCombatLockdown is your friend |
| 18:39.39 | Dagmar | Just an example of race conditions being evil and pernicious things |
| 18:39.54 | nevcairiel | the wow ui isnt really known for race conditions like that |
| 18:40.14 | Gnarfoz | it's known for many other things *cough* |
| 18:40.14 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 18:40.17 | Primer | Well, I was going to just use WA for this |
| 18:40.45 | Dagmar | If there's anything that mentions deferring updates or has to go through a secondary layer, that's where it'll cornhole you |
| 18:40.58 | Gnarfoz | possibly a case of cracking a nut with a sledgehammer |
| 18:41.19 | Gnarfoz | (neat transduction of the German idiom I was thinking of) |
| 18:41.39 | mckenziemc | ~whalenutshot Torhal |
| 18:41.39 | purl | ACTION drops a vastly obese whale named Ricardo on Torhal's family jewels |
| 18:41.48 | mckenziemc | kinda like that? |
| 18:42.51 | alestane | I think 2010 was the one where you could have seen us talking at the UI dinner. |
| 18:42.55 | fewyn | day of day is best day |
| 18:43.06 | fewyn | s/of/off |
| 18:45.14 | Gnarfoz | fewyn: indubitably |
| 18:45.31 | Gnarfoz | alestane: ah, well. :) |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Industrial (565d864e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.93.134.78) |
| 19:08.18 | Industrial | Hi |
| 19:08.32 | Industrial | Is there an addon that makes the addons list in the interface options panel scollable? |
| 19:09.04 | Industrial | I always feel dumb when I am zooming out from the world if I want to see the bottom of the list ... |
| 19:16.41 | kd3 | whee. good to know that the easiest solution to most problems, even with fancy EV chargers, is to turn it off and back on again |
| 19:16.42 | kd3 | >.< |
| 19:16.45 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:16.45 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:20.27 | Gnarfoz | kd3: you'd think that would have sunk in by now :P |
| 19:21.05 | kd3 | perhaps |
| 19:26.55 | Primer | Is there no "left combat" event? |
| 19:27.06 | Primer | Something I can easily hook into in WA |
| 19:27.06 | Gnarfoz | player regen enabled |
| 19:27.11 | Gnarfoz | is the event |
| 19:27.14 | kd3 | player_Regen_enabled |
| 19:27.23 | Primer | lovely, thanks |
| 19:28.12 | Gnarfoz | "doritos" fingers, punctuation is hard |
| 19:30.54 | *** join/#wowuidev pb_ee1 (pb_ee1@nat/google/x-bpffdnaazxdamjzy) |
| 19:35.57 | *** join/#wowuidev maunot (~PANKER@mobile-access-6df088-206.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:42.37 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 19:45.42 | fewyn | i love having tuesdays off from work because lfr queues are so fast on tuesdays |
| 19:47.37 | Gnarfoz | good arrangement for USian WoW players |
| 19:48.08 | Gnarfoz | (except, you have to run LFR...) |
| 19:49.47 | fewyn | yeah i don't currently have a raid group |
| 19:54.26 | Primer | Ok, with any luck, this raid frame fixer WA will work |
| 19:54.40 | nevcairiel | you know, thats really not w hat WA is for |
| 19:55.07 | Primer | meh, it gets the job done |
| 19:56.00 | Primer | I just made a WA that loads when in an instance of all types, checks for PLAYER_REGEN_ENABLED event, and runs PitBull4_Groups_Raid:Update() on that event |
| 19:56.04 | Primer | and displays nothing |
| 19:56.37 | Amarande | fewyn: the downside is you can't just wake up and play some quick wow after breakfast to get your day started, though |
| 19:56.54 | nevcairiel | most weeks there are just restarts anyway |
| 19:57.13 | Amarande | yeah blizz does finally seem to have got their act together in that regard |
| 19:57.33 | Amarande | I always wondered what they needed those 8 hours for every week when basically every other mmo handled it in half the time or less, if they had every week maintenance at all |
| 19:57.37 | mckenziemc | wonders how often Amarande actually does know his stuff |
| 19:57.54 | Torhal | mckenziemc: He's a serial suppositioner. |
| 19:58.40 | Amarande | ... then again, blizzard can actually do things like start and end holiday events on the fly, whereas, say, square apparently needs a maintenance shutdown each time |
| 20:06.40 | Ressy | heh |
| 20:16.50 | VIad | nice. we are back to vanilla in 2005 sub numbers. |
| 20:17.02 | bluspacecow | weird |
| 20:17.18 | bluspacecow | they released to business wire but not their investment site |
| 20:17.20 | zenzelezz | I'm sure they're wiping their tears with hundred-dollar bills |
| 20:17.21 | bluspacecow | yet |
| 20:19.31 | bluspacecow | *blinks* Destiny has 20 million registered players. interesting. |
| 20:19.52 | VIad | we should unsub right before next Q to mess with blizz :3 |
| 20:26.52 | Gnarfoz | you go ahead, VIad |
| 20:26.56 | Gnarfoz | you could start right now! |
| 20:30.12 | g0urra | VIad: what if they start a new campaign at the end of Q3 |
| 20:30.29 | g0urra | "be a subscriber by october to get cool stuff for the expansion!" |
| 20:30.55 | VIad | g0urra: I already took breaks in between so it doesn't matter :p |
| 20:30.58 | g0urra | (change "the expansion" to "<your other favorite Blizzard game>" if you'd like) |
| 20:31.53 | Semlar | sups torhal |
| 20:32.09 | bluspacecow | soups Torhal |
| 20:32.24 | Torhal | makes Semlar & bluspacecow soup. |
| 20:32.36 | bluspacecow | mmmmmm soup |
| 20:32.38 | Semlar | i'm delicious! |
| 20:34.03 | bluspacecow | to ma toe |
| 20:34.47 | mckenziemc | blu space cow |
| 20:34.59 | bluspacecow | ma ken zee |
| 20:36.21 | mckenziemc | so hungry |
| 20:36.26 | mckenziemc | when will it be ready Torhal? |
| 20:38.32 | mckenziemc | nibbles on Torhal hors d'ouvres (now lets see if i spelled that right) |
| 20:38.55 | mckenziemc | nope, missed an e |
| 20:40.09 | g0urra | oh wow, d3 made more money for blizzard than wow? |
| 20:40.37 | nevcairiel | what gave you that idea |
| 20:40.48 | g0urra | are you listening to the earnings call? |
| 20:40.49 | nevcairiel | unless they made a whole lot of money with the RMAH, its impossible |
| 20:41.15 | nevcairiel | no, these things are fucking boring |
| 20:41.35 | bluspacecow | dont worry |
| 20:41.46 | bluspacecow | seeking alpha should have a transcript of this call once its done |
| 20:42.05 | g0urra | ROFL WoW wasn't among the "strongest pipelines" |
| 20:42.34 | bluspacecow | yes it is |
| 20:42.39 | nevcairiel | whats a strongest pipeline supposed to be |
| 20:42.42 | g0urra | idk |
| 20:42.48 | nevcairiel | then why is it funny |
| 20:43.17 | g0urra | it showed overwatch, hearthstone, diablo 3, hearthstone and sc2 |
| 20:44.02 | bluspacecow | i think i mis read it |
| 20:44.21 | bluspacecow | for 2015 and 2015+ it has call of duty online , heroes of the storm , guitar hero online and overwatch |
| 20:44.23 | g0urra | oh wait I didn't see the WoW logo, nvm |
| 20:44.29 | bluspacecow | http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/4062805265x0x827038/09A38BD7-26F9-4B5F-AADA-003B705B8B09/Q1_2015_ATVI_Slides.pdf |
| 20:44.33 | bluspacecow | page 7 |
| 20:44.41 | bluspacecow | wow logo is under 2013 core franchises |
| 20:44.52 | bluspacecow | i think you may be misreading the chart |
| 20:44.58 | nevcairiel | thats the old one |
| 20:45.14 | bluspacecow | woops! |
| 20:45.16 | g0urra | you're right |
| 20:48.10 | Mr_Rabies | sometimes it takes a serious failure like WoD to figure out what they need to do to attain their previous success |
| 20:48.28 | Mr_Rabies | hopefully that happens and WoD doesn't just sink the game forever |
| 20:48.30 | nevcairiel | its not that serious of a failure |
| 20:48.55 | nevcairiel | if WoD hadn't spiked that high during launch, then the graph would've just been a natural continuation of the trend from MoP |
| 20:48.57 | Mr_Rabies | they're at the lowest numbers they've had in almost a decade |
| 20:49.14 | nevcairiel | but its been going down for years |
| 20:49.23 | nevcairiel | thats not only content, the game is just old |
| 20:49.59 | nevcairiel | MoP at its time was the lowest for nearly a decade, well, maybe 8 years then since it wasnt that old yet |
| 20:50.04 | nevcairiel | WoD spiked during launch |
| 20:50.12 | nevcairiel | and all the new or returning players left again |
| 20:50.18 | nevcairiel | so it looks terrible |
| 20:50.25 | nevcairiel | but averaged out, its just continuing on a trend |
| 20:50.26 | Mr_Rabies | i think that spike is a sign that it's not destined for a steady drop |
| 20:50.28 | Primer | So far this WA is working |
| 20:50.37 | Primer | I've yet to see missing raid frames |
| 20:50.42 | Mr_Rabies | it's just the past few expansions haven't really delivered on promises very well |
| 20:50.49 | Mr_Rabies | especially with how COOL WoD was as a concept |
| 20:52.05 | Mr_Rabies | if the next one releases and has a cool concept that it actually delivers on, unlike WoD, hopefully we'll get some boost to sub numbers |
| 20:52.31 | Mr_Rabies | i'd like to see the numbers trail up again for a change |
| 20:54.01 | g0urra | "the biggest non-expansion patch ever" -Mike Morhaime |
| 20:55.51 | Mr_Rabies | i'm afraid blizzard has spread itself way too thin, but hopefully the next expansion bucks the trend |
| 20:57.11 | nevcairiel | blizzard recruited quite a bit over the last few years |
| 20:57.29 | nevcairiel | which was part of why WoD moved slow, as recruiting people slows you down for a bit until they are all up to speed |
| 20:58.22 | nevcairiel | rumors have been floating around for a while that the new expansion was quite far ahead already, so maybe it will be better now |
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| 21:00.00 | Mr_Rabies | yeah |
| 21:00.01 | Mr_Rabies | i really hope it has as cool of a concept as WoD, but actually delivers on it |
| 21:00.30 | Mr_Rabies | it feels like they basically finished everything they wanted for WoD during beta and scrapped everything that wasn't in a near-complete state by then to work on the next expansion |
| 21:00.57 | Mr_Rabies | if we keep getting yearly $50 expansions with as little content as WoD has had, those numbers are going to freefall |
| 21:00.59 | Liquidor | Good evening everyone :) So I'm new to Lua and learning by reading the source code of addons. In AceSerializer there's a line using string.gmatch and assigning it to a variable and then calling that variable as a function. When I read the Lua manual it tells me that string.gmatch returns an iteration, so how can the code just do a function call? What happens here? |
| 21:01.16 | bluspacecow | black voodo magic |
| 21:01.37 | nevcairiel | Liquidor: it returns an iterator, which is just a function |
| 21:01.58 | Liquidor | Oh hi nevcairiel ! Big fan :) |
| 21:02.42 | Kalroth | I'm a metal fan! |
| 21:02.50 | Liquidor | But what does the function return? AceSerializer seems to expect 2 variables: local ctl,data = iter() |
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| 21:06.32 | nevcairiel | it returns as many results as there is capters in the gmatch call |
| 21:06.33 | nevcairiel | captures* |
| 21:06.43 | Liquidor | Reference: https://github.com/mikeboers/GoldFarmer/blob/master/Libs/AceSerializer-3.0/AceSerializer-3.0.lua#L243 |
| 21:06.53 | Liquidor | (random github) |
| 21:07.11 | Liquidor | Oh I see now |
| 21:07.41 | kd3 | mm, went to lunch. let's see how |
| 21:07.41 | nevcairiel | yeah it has two captures, so the iterator returns two values |
| 21:07.42 | kd3 | also, what? it's raining |
| 21:07.44 | Liquidor | You create the iterator before calling it, right? |
| 21:07.50 | kd3 | let's see what it does to traffic |
| 21:07.57 | nevcairiel | its meant to be used in a for loop |
| 21:08.09 | nevcairiel | like, "for a, b in gmatch(str, "..") do" |
| 21:08.19 | Liquidor | Yeah that's what I learned |
| 21:08.24 | nevcairiel | gmatch returns the iterator function |
| 21:08.32 | nevcairiel | and the for loop would just keep calling the iterator until it returns nil |
| 21:08.58 | nevcairiel | but you can also just call gmatch yourself, get the iterator, and have fun with it |
| 21:09.47 | Liquidor | Thanks a lot man. |
| 21:10.02 | Liquidor | Entire code makes sense now. |
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| 21:13.20 | nevcairiel | some of the ace libraries are quite a bit more complex than other things, so its probably not generally the best place to start learning lua |
| 21:15.54 | Liquidor | I've got experience with other programming languages. It's just some traps/quirks in Lua that I'm falling into. But I agree with you and I'm reading a lot of code from different addons (and sometimes libs) |
| 21:16.51 | mckenziemc | if you've got the attention span the lua reference manual is a good source of information |
| 21:17.42 | mckenziemc | (WoW uses 5.1) |
| 21:17.52 | Gnarfoz | WoW uses... something |
| 21:18.01 | Gnarfoz | "5.1" is close, but not entirely true |
| 21:18.13 | mckenziemc | regarding the manual, it is :) |
| 21:18.25 | nevcairiel | its originally based on 5.1, but some extensions and ports from earlier versions |
| 21:18.38 | Gnarfoz | sure, where's the section about format strings with positional parameters? :P |
| 21:18.50 | nevcairiel | i wonder why lua got rid of that |
| 21:18.51 | Gnarfoz | (etc. just being annoying) |
| 21:18.56 | nevcairiel | its super handy for proper internationalization |
| 21:19.07 | nevcairiel | if a translation cannot change the position of something, it may end up screwed |
| 21:19.30 | nevcairiel | which is exactly what blizzard uses it for |
| 21:19.47 | mckenziemc | functions present a functional alternative i think :P |
| 21:19.53 | Gnarfoz | does someone keep a list of the non-standard things that are missing or added? |
| 21:20.02 | Gnarfoz | + the disabled things |
| 21:20.10 | nevcairiel | probably somewhere on the wowpedia |
| 21:20.33 | Gnarfoz | something something pedia |
| 21:20.35 | Gnarfoz | :> |
| 21:20.40 | kd3 | http://wow.gamepedia.com/Lua_functions |
| 21:20.45 | Liquidor | mckenziemc: Got the manual open 24/7 :) I just missed the part where you can just call the iterator for the next value in sequence without doing a loop |
| 21:21.45 | Industrial | Hi. |
| 21:21.50 | Gnarfoz | I guess that counts... I was thinking more of a "this is different: x, y, z" kind of thing, but the proper answer to that is probably "well, create it, then!" |
| 21:21.55 | Industrial | I installed Aurora. Do I have to keep clicking away this welcome message? |
| 21:22.05 | Gnarfoz | the Amazon DBMS? |
| 21:22.13 | Industrial | Cause in that case it's going out. |
| 21:22.14 | Gnarfoz | :P what the hell is Aurora |
| 21:22.28 | Liquidor | Omg it's Industrial |
| 21:22.29 | Industrial | http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info18589-Aurora.html |
| 21:22.36 | Industrial | omg hi Liquidor ! |
| 21:22.39 | Industrial | I'm le back! |
| 21:22.45 | Gnarfoz | ugh, one of those restyle everything addons. |
| 21:22.49 | Gnarfoz | ask znf, he probably uses it |
| 21:22.58 | mckenziemc | Liquidor: ah... i think that's where the online Programming in Lua comes in handy ;) |
| 21:23.14 | znf | Use what? |
| 21:23.31 | znf | Yes I do use Aurora Stanzilla too |
| 21:23.35 | Industrial | LF Guild any EU server. I'll roll any class. It's just that I'm pretty casual :D |
| 21:23.37 | Gnarfoz | see? :> |
| 21:23.54 | Industrial | znf: can I get rid of the welcome screen? |
| 21:24.06 | Stanzilla | znf: I dont use Aurora |
| 21:24.07 | Liquidor | Amazing to see so many oldschool devs still being around... or sad? Not sure. You decide! |
| 21:24.21 | znf | ... Welcome screen?! |
| 21:24.52 | Industrial | Yeah some "this is aurora, this is my wesite blahblah" screen I keep getting every login |
| 21:25.12 | znf | Never seen it :D |
| 21:25.19 | Industrial | k :x |
| 21:25.50 | Industrial | Liquidor: it's awesome! I've been doing a lote of Node.js and JavaScript since. |
| 21:26.03 | Liquidor | Same actually |
| 21:26.21 | Industrial | I'm rebuilding all addons I had now under 1 addon, idTweaks. I'll break them apart later but for now I'm busy just adding options for everything. |
| 21:26.29 | Liquidor | I don't remember the nick I used to have here. Either this or DennisRas/DennisRasmussen. Oh well |
| 21:26.47 | Industrial | Liquidor: I remember Liquidor :) |
| 21:26.58 | Liquidor | idChat and shit lol |
| 21:27.00 | mckenziemc | Liquidor: don't know if you still can use this, i've been distracted and only paying 1/2 attention but http://www.lua.org/pil/7.1.html :p |
| 21:27.06 | Industrial | aw yiss! |
| 21:27.47 | Liquidor | mckenziemc: Amazing. I already had that page open :) As soon as nevcairiel tipped me about the iterator I found the page |
| 21:27.48 | Industrial | So anyone on EU play in a guild that takes casual players? :D |
| 21:28.52 | Liquidor | Industrial: I just got promoted in mine so I don't know the policy, but there's a rank for it |
| 21:29.19 | Industrial | What realm/side do you play on? :D |
| 21:29.37 | Liquidor | Does anyone still play Horde? |
| 21:29.47 | Liquidor | EU-Silvermoon - Alliance |
| 21:29.56 | Torhal | It's mainly 5.1 with bolted on stuff (like bit library) and reversions (string.match positionals from Lua 4.0) |
| 21:30.10 | Industrial | k |
| 21:30.39 | Torhal | And yes, I was scrolled up when I typed that. |
| 21:30.46 | Gnarfoz | (nobody noticed) |
| 21:31.15 | Torhal | sweeps Gnarfoz under the carpet. |
| 21:32.06 | Gnarfoz | discovers hair balls and throws them at Torhal |
| 21:33.25 | Liquidor | Industrial: You're welcome if interested. Guild does mythic hfc if that matters at all, but there's a "friends rank" aka. social rank or whatever you call it |
| 21:33.36 | Liquidor | Other than that, back to coding |
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| 21:58.40 | Gnarfoz | Industrial: are you sure your savedvariables are somewhere that has write access? and somewhere that doesn't forget changes? |
| 21:59.17 | Industrial | Gnarfoz: yep. Warning was gone this time tho. Weird. |
| 21:59.42 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: sometimes I wonder how many people manage to setup one of those two cases, when they report settings not sticking (and me just ignoring them) |
| 22:00.51 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: "power users" with dropbox sync, symlinks, cloud storage, or just plain broken filesystems? :D |
| 22:01.04 | nevcairiel | power lusers then i guess |
| 22:01.12 | Gnarfoz | there's usually a considerable overlap |
| 22:01.14 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 22:01.17 | nevcairiel | anyway time to sleep |
| 22:01.24 | Gnarfoz | already? :\ |
| 22:01.28 | nevcairiel | need to get up early and do lfr |
| 22:01.30 | Gnarfoz | where'd the evning go |
| 22:01.31 | nevcairiel | need ring |
| 22:01.31 | nevcairiel | :P |
| 22:01.47 | Gnarfoz | gotta call in sick tomorrow, *cough* |
| 22:01.59 | nevcairiel | 4 from 9 lfr bosses should be possible |
| 22:02.05 | nevcairiel | if that fails, i'm going to be mad |
| 22:02.29 | Gnarfoz | makes a note: ask nevcairiel "u mad" tomorrow at 12 |
| 22:04.41 | Liquidor | gl nevcairiel |
| 22:04.43 | Gnarfoz | hrm, resets at 9? :P |
| 22:04.45 | Liquidor | got the ring weeks ago :P |
| 22:05.06 | Gnarfoz | I guess I could come in a bit later tomorrow... :P |
| 22:08.40 | mckenziemc | classic sign of wow addiction :P |
| 22:14.02 | Gnarfoz | or of flexible work hours! :) |
| 22:14.58 | Gnarfoz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChOhcHD8fBA :3 |
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| 22:41.22 | fewyn | TIL there was an n64 version of starcraft |
| 22:46.40 | mckenziemc | TIL nothing much |
| 22:46.44 | phelps | where might I acquire such a thing |
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| 23:31.39 | Torhal | Gnarfoz: I've ben using a Dropbox symlink for SVs for five years now. |
| 23:31.45 | Torhal | s/ben/been/ |
| 23:34.15 | Gnarfoz | have you ever opened a ticket on one of nev's addons, claiming settings not sticking? |
| 23:34.38 | Torhal | No, but what I'm saying is "How the hell would a symlink cause that shit?" |
| 23:35.08 | Gnarfoz | magic words: non-standard setup |
| 23:35.51 | Torhal | o.O |
| 23:35.58 | Torhal | Neffi's mom is non-standard. |
| 23:36.13 | Gnarfoz | I don't know, I don't care, but I can't vouch for it working the way it was intended to work (not to mention that list was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek) |
| 23:36.33 | Gnarfoz | (would be the supposed stance of the addon author receiving such tickets) |
| 23:36.46 | Torhal | (why are we talking like this?) |
| 23:40.10 | Mr_Rabies | phelps: it's actually super cheap generally in used game stores, or of course any rom site :v |
| 23:40.31 | Gnarfoz | probably because that's what parentheses are supposed to be used for? :\ |
| 23:40.42 | Gnarfoz | maybe putting entire sentences in them is atypical, though |
| 23:41.36 | Torhal | I just typically avoid it because He who Speaks in Walls of Text does it all the damn time. |
| 23:42.48 | Gnarfoz | does he? I wouldn't know! |
| 23:44.16 | Mr_Rabies | my brain went straight to Brian Michael Bendis, but he doesn't speak in walls of text, i guess |
| 23:44.24 | Mr_Rabies | more like pages and pages of banter |
| 23:45.27 | Mr_Rabies | almost every bendis comic reads like a weird movie script: https://znculturecast.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/powers-page.jpg |
| 23:50.42 | Semlar | torhal my hunter has an estimated wait time of 1 hour queued for all of HFC LFR |
| 23:50.48 | phelps | Mr_Rabies, i need to buy one of them magic cartages you can put ROMs on |
| 23:51.03 | Torhal | Semlar: You should stop being bad. |
| 23:51.24 | phelps | oh my, EverDrive is $140 |
| 23:51.25 | Ressy | Naw.. |
| 23:51.28 | Mr_Rabies | the only problem with those phelps, is some games don't really work with em |
| 23:51.33 | Ressy | He just needs to group with a healer. |
| 23:51.38 | Semlar | no torhal |
| 23:51.41 | Mr_Rabies | especially SNES ones that use custom chips like SuperFX, etc |
| 23:51.47 | phelps | http://www.stoneagegamer.com/everdrive64-v2.html |
| 23:52.02 | phelps | Nearly to 100% compatibility with the N64 game library, they claim |
| 23:52.05 | Torhal | Why not, Semlar? Everyone says that. I'd think that should count for something. |
| 23:52.17 | Mr_Rabies | i wish the retron5 was better at emulation, it looked so promising to start :< |
| 23:52.18 | Torhal | I'm pretty sure "Stop being bad." is a mantra of sorts. |
| 23:52.39 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, n64 had a lot fewer custom chips, etc |
| 23:52.44 | Semlar | i would pay a healer 1000g just to queue for LFR with me and leave |
| 23:52.47 | Ressy | Torhal: I bet you hear it all too often. :P |
| 23:52.59 | Ressy | <3 |
| 23:53.13 | Torhal | Ressy: Nah. I'd have to play WoW before anyone would think to say it to me. |
| 23:53.43 | Ressy | And yet I see you online in WoW. |
| 23:53.43 | Torhal | Online != playing. |
| 23:53.48 | Ressy | lmao. Don't I know it. |
| 23:53.57 | phelps | I'd like to play Turok again, now that I'm not 7 |
| 23:54.14 | phelps | maybe I'd get past the first 2 levels |
| 23:55.39 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 23:55.48 | Mr_Rabies | a lot of n64 games did not age very well |
| 23:56.00 | Mr_Rabies | lots of games running at sub-20 fps, some even in single digits |
| 23:56.21 | Mr_Rabies | donkey kong 64 in particular is a nightmare |
| 23:56.23 | phelps | i could just buy a n64 adapter and play it on my pc |
| 23:56.44 | phelps | hell of a lot cheaper than the everdrive |
| 23:57.05 | tz | I miss diddy kong racing |
| 23:57.50 | phelps | there was a game on n64 that had a sort of half life vibe, can't remember the name of it |
| 23:58.43 | Mr_Rabies | first person? |
| 23:59.00 | phelps | yeah, i distinctly remember it having floating sentry guns |
| 23:59.01 | Ressy | I really wanna buy Super Mario 64... |
| 23:59.45 | Mr_Rabies | now that |
| 23:59.48 | Mr_Rabies | really hasn't aged well |
| 23:59.53 | Mr_Rabies | it's not awful but whoa |
| 23:59.54 | phelps | you started in an underground sewer system |
