| 00:02.36 | *** join/#wowuidev fatguylaughing (~fatguylau@ip68-228-161-189.ok.ok.cox.net) |
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| 00:57.27 | karl_w_w | is it possible to make a real time clock using only CSS? |
| 00:58.55 | kd3 | if it was even possible, that'd be a pretty nasty hack. |
| 00:59.06 | kd3 | points at http://nist.time.gov |
| 01:00.36 | kd3 | they've finally gone away from a java applet to straight html5 |
| 01:00.38 | Shirik | I don't understand how you would change something dynamically with css? |
| 01:00.58 | karl_w_w | that's not a question Shirik |
| 01:01.11 | karl_w_w | and yes I don't think it's possible |
| 01:01.13 | Shirik | It could be |
| 01:01.27 | Shirik | Add an implied "Is it that" to the beginning of the sentence |
| 01:01.31 | wodim | you did not even use google |
| 01:01.32 | wodim | https://cssanimation.rocks/clocks/ |
| 01:01.37 | wodim | ah |
| 01:01.39 | wodim | it's not css |
| 01:01.40 | wodim | lol |
| 01:01.47 | Shirik | that's javascript :P |
| 01:01.50 | wodim | http://cssdeck.com/labs/wall-clock-in-pure-css3 |
| 01:01.52 | wodim | that is not. |
| 01:02.05 | Shirik | it's also not functional |
| 01:02.20 | Shirik | oh there we go |
| 01:03.09 | kd3 | something something nasty hack |
| 01:03.56 | Shirik | omg |
| 01:03.58 | Shirik | it's a webkit animation |
| 01:04.04 | Shirik | with keyframes |
| 01:04.21 | kd3 | css3 animations can do some pretty crazy things |
| 01:04.22 | Semlar | this is not showing the right time |
| 01:04.53 | Shirik | I mean it's not particularly crazy :P |
| 01:05.01 | Shirik | it's a very slow animation that happens to be synchronized with time |
| 01:05.17 | Shirik | that being said I agree, what the heck time is this |
| 01:05.36 | Semlar | it says GMT |
| 01:05.37 | kd3 | the source it's trying to get the current time from doesn't resolve |
| 01:05.52 | Semlar | but it's ahead by like 7 minutes, even if the hour is right |
| 01:06.11 | kd3 | refresh, it always starts at 10:10 |
| 01:06.21 | Semlar | oh |
| 01:06.34 | Semlar | so it's not really a clock, as such |
| 01:07.02 | Shirik | no it's just failing to load the correct time |
| 01:07.06 | Shirik | because the site it's loading it from is broken |
| 01:07.18 | Shirik | that being said, loading it from another site is cheating |
| 01:07.24 | Shirik | because that site is surely not using CSS to determine the time |
| 01:10.37 | kd3 | wow |
| 01:10.40 | kd3 | signal lock from new horizons |
| 01:10.43 | kd3 | it survived the flyby |
| 01:10.53 | kd3 | now 16 months to go to get all of the data from the past ~12 hours |
| 01:10.56 | karl_w_w | well it's not pure css if it's got html anyway :P |
| 01:11.25 | Shirik | kd3: the worst thing about this mission is that when it was launched, pluto was still a planet |
| 01:11.30 | kd3 | lol |
| 01:11.33 | Shirik | the project literally got demoted while in flight |
| 01:18.30 | Shirik | ooh |
| 01:18.34 | Shirik | Amex is jumping on the Uber bandwagon |
| 01:18.46 | Shirik | "Get $5 back after you spend $15 or more in one transaction with Uber" |
| 01:23.21 | kullervo | sometimes I clear AQ40 just because I like the background noise there |
| 01:24.24 | kd3 | too many bad memories of huhupants, the emps, and the untuned c'thun |
| 01:43.27 | pompy | 5.5 hrs till Prime Day |
| 01:46.06 | znf | wtf is prime day? |
| 01:46.15 | kd3 | amazon's take on black friday |
| 01:46.37 | znf | *scratch head* |
| 01:46.38 | znf | oh well |
| 01:46.42 | znf | Anyway, can't sleep. |
| 01:52.51 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/G5X7hwe.jpg |
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| 01:56.33 | znf | I need to figure out a way to make a bit more passive income... |
| 01:56.41 | znf | I also need to find a new place to rent :-/ |
| 01:56.47 | znf | And I can't sleep at all, damn it |
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| 02:00.29 | karl_w_w | so in windows grabbing a window and shaking it minimized everything else |
| 02:00.44 | karl_w_w | minimizes* |
| 02:00.46 | znf | ha |
| 02:00.47 | znf | cool |
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| 02:15.17 | pompy | so this happened in my town the other day http://tinyurl.com/ntcwts8' |
| 02:15.20 | pompy | http://tinyurl.com/ntcwts8 |
| 02:15.43 | znf | Holy shit. I think I found a perfect place to move to. |
| 02:15.56 | znf | If the ad is still valid |
| 02:16.00 | znf | now I am _really_ hyped |
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| 02:16.24 | znf | gaaaah |
| 02:16.26 | znf | it's only 5am |
| 02:18.00 | znf | Can't sleep. Going out. |
| 02:19.35 | znf | oh, if I'm quick, I'm catching the sunrise! |
| 02:21.54 | karl_w_w | Watch a pixel land on Route 72 |
| 02:23.01 | pompy | pixel? |
| 02:27.29 | karl_w_w | It's a joke see, because the video is low resolution see |
| 02:34.00 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/6qWr1Zk.jpg |
| 02:34.13 | znf | Live from sunrise |
| 02:34.17 | Ressy | pretty |
| 02:34.31 | rid_ | nice |
| 02:34.50 | znf | Damn it. I'm a moron. I brought my lighter... But I didn't get my e-cig |
| 02:35.42 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/hHe8ifk.jpg |
| 02:37.13 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/bS5Y6KZ.jpg |
| 02:37.43 | pompy | ut oh, explosion in the distance. :o |
| 02:39.01 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/Q8vqLNQ.jpg |
| 02:40.30 | znf | Was right on time at 5:37 |
| 02:41.04 | Amarande | znf: it'd probably be worse if you had tried to use your lighter on your e-cig |
| 02:41.50 | znf | It's weird how I have a habit of getting the lighter |
| 02:41.55 | znf | Because I don't smoke... |
| 02:45.19 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/7hDQjfa.jpg |
| 02:48.44 | znf | https://i.imgur.com/cr3P9ck.jpg |
| 02:48.48 | znf | Last one |
| 03:06.23 | karl_w_w | I've never heard of the sun being late if I'm honest |
| 03:08.41 | Kraps | is there a way to have an fps counter in wow |
| 03:10.01 | karl_w_w | yes |
| 03:10.01 | *** join/#wowuidev pumba (sumeet@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-vswekyegwgtvrbnv) |
| 03:10.30 | Kraps | how |
| 03:11.30 | karl_w_w | press ctrl R |
| 03:12.22 | Kraps | thank |
| 03:12.24 | Kraps | s |
| 03:12.25 | Amarande | GAME OVER. PRESS 'R' TO TRY AGAIN. |
| 03:12.26 | Amarande | :) |
| 03:13.02 | Kraps | playing on this 13 inch screen |
| 03:13.27 | Kraps | laptop |
| 03:14.13 | Amarande | heh, I've heard of some crazy diamonds who even play wow on surface tablets |
| 03:21.39 | Kraps | outland freaking finally |
| 03:21.58 | wodim | where does one level up at level 58 nowadays? |
| 03:22.01 | wodim | you visit the old outlands? |
| 03:22.02 | wodim | or what? |
| 03:27.29 | Kraps | yes |
| 03:27.54 | karl_w_w | or you sit in stormwind and queue for dungeons |
| 03:27.58 | Kraps | just got there |
| 03:32.44 | znf | https://goo.gl/photos/yT62dF822nZbfSam9 |
| 03:33.01 | znf | The animation |
| 03:33.05 | znf | Thank you, Photos |
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| 04:19.08 | mckenziemc | just don't bother manually queing for northrend dungeons once you get to 68, if you want to go the dungeon route |
| 04:19.20 | mckenziemc | better to do more outland instances than get UK over and over :P |
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| 04:36.22 | mckenziemc | sleepy :( |
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| 04:58.02 | Semlar | holy hell fel lord is bugged |
| 04:59.06 | Semlar | every time the tanks come out of the other phase they're taking a ton of extra damage |
| 05:11.52 | kd3 | they broke it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18300812130?page=2#21 |
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| 05:21.01 | mckenziemc | which reminds me, i wonder if they've figured out and fixed the potential exploit i reported a couple weeks ago :< |
| 05:21.24 | mckenziemc | that they introduced by being lazy when they fucked with the API >.> |
| 05:21.51 | mckenziemc | well not so much exploit, just something they've made clear they don't want happening |
| 05:23.08 | mckenziemc | they also need to increase the bug report character maximum |
| 05:37.56 | j311yf1sh | mmm tukui breaks fstack lol |
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| 05:52.12 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:08.31 | mckenziemc | i briefly tried to figure out if / how an addon would be able to detect body pulls accurately, but i quickly thought of checking the names in recount :p |
| 06:09.19 | mckenziemc | i suppose that doesn't make sense given the context, but i haven't played WoD much at all |
| 06:10.21 | mckenziemc | oh it was frozen like it was a picture for a while o.O |
| 06:11.19 | mckenziemc | and i didn't see the player name since i had already scrolled, nvm me *sigh* |
| 06:25.39 | karl_w_w | bizarre http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2014/02/extreme-commuting-mindaribba-station-woah-this-place-is-tiny/ |
| 06:29.53 | karl_w_w | the thing he doesnt mention is that there's basically no reason for that station to be there |
| 06:30.11 | karl_w_w | there's no settlements around there |
| 06:31.09 | Dagmar | Maybe some developers planned to put something there and they got the govt to build the stop, and then their plans fell through |
| 06:31.22 | Dagmar | ...or maybe it's a front for something much more sinister. |
| 06:32.05 | mckenziemc | stuffs Dagmar's corpse inside the shack-thing. |
| 06:32.26 | Dagmar | It might _actually_ be a secret base |
| 06:33.08 | Dagmar | No one _else_ is likely to go out there, so if someone is the only person on the line, gets off and goes straight into the woods... so long as the driver doesn't say anything... Easy mode |
| 06:35.09 | Dagmar | Military personell have had worse jobs than pretending to be a bus driver. |
| 06:43.32 | karl_w_w | and they blow their cover by tagging off :P |
| 06:48.49 | mckenziemc | slaps karl_w_w around a bit with a size 16.5 (US) shoe |
| 06:48.56 | mckenziemc | it was Pearson's idea |
| 06:51.16 | mckenziemc | two more homework problems and i can go to bed :( |
| 06:53.18 | karl_w_w | here's another weird one, a station which you can't reach by road http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/wondabyne-nsw-the-only-train-station-in-australia-inaccessible-by-road/story-fni0cx12-1227300725078 |
| 07:00.19 | Mr_Rabies | pearson is the antichrist |
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| 07:45.19 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 07:45.24 | Fisker | hey Shirik |
| 07:45.36 | Shirik | my license plates expire in 3 days |
| 07:45.42 | Fisker | good |
| 07:45.42 | Shirik | pls give to me new one |
| 07:45.45 | Fisker | nope |
| 07:45.53 | Shirik | :( |
| 07:50.51 | Fisker | :) Shirik |
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| 07:53.43 | Shirik | Respected Sir/Madam, |
| 07:53.43 | Shirik | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:53.43 | Shirik | We are professional of SEO services company. We can provide you 1st to 10th position in all Search Engine rankings at very affordable prices. So let me know if you would be interested or like me to mail you more details or schedule a call. We would love to work with you! |
| 07:54.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 07:54.40 | Shirik | Respected professional of SEO services company, you seem to be unable to perform a whois lookup to determine if I am a sir or madam. I am not confident you understand how to administer the internet. If you would like me to instruct you, I can provide training at a very affordable rate. I look forward to your call! |
| 07:58.05 | sb | :D |
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| 11:43.03 | jleclanche | [Surge of Power] dealt 5619 damage to enemy Quintessence of Light (Critical). |
| 11:43.03 | jleclanche | :3 |
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| 12:41.11 | gobljn | is there a way to track the weekly follower recruitement from the inn? |
| 12:46.20 | nebula169 | track in what way |
| 12:52.13 | gobljn | via weak aura |
| 12:52.16 | gobljn | or macro |
| 12:56.15 | sb | tracking as in "already recruited this week"? |
| 12:56.50 | gobljn | yes |
| 12:57.45 | sb | no - you hvae to hook the "new follower" confirmation event (if i remember correctly) from the inn and remember / check for new lockout/reset |
| 12:58.08 | sb | i dont think there is a tracking quest |
| 12:58.32 | gobljn | damn :/ |
| 12:59.02 | sb | broker garrison does this already *hide* :D |
| 13:00.18 | gobljn | jeah, but that takes me 2 clicks to check |
| 13:00.26 | nebula169 | eh? just use C_Garrison.CanGenerateRecruits() / C_Garrison.GetAvailableRecruits() > 0 |
| 13:00.56 | sb | nebula169: doesnt work until you open the recruitment frame |
| 13:01.24 | nebula169 | how silly |
| 13:03.00 | sb | gobljn: you could get the SVs from BG and use the result in your weak aura |
| 13:04.33 | gobljn | that's way over my head |
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| 14:31.52 | Torhal | Comic-Con footage of the Warcraft movie. Well, until Legendary has it taken down: https://vid.me/ijlx |
| 14:34.05 | pompy | reported. |
| 14:37.51 | mckenziemc | deported |
| 14:38.54 | pompy | unreported |
| 14:42.14 | pompy | here you go Torhal https://blog.malwarebytes.org/news/2015/07/introducing-malwarebytes-anti-malware-for-mac |
| 14:57.49 | jleclanche | Tavern Brawl #5 in 5 minutes, join #hearthsim if you're interested :) |
| 15:07.36 | pompy | zenzelezz: https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch/photos/a.138389650378.140600.131613310378/10153291579185379/?type=1&permPage=1 launch soon |
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| 15:26.38 | pompy | zenzelezz: t-9 minutes |
| 15:41.48 | pompy | awesome onboard camera signal |
| 15:44.16 | nevcairiel | wtf is that dumb talk on the stream |
| 15:52.10 | pompy | dumb talk? |
| 15:52.59 | nevcairiel | sounded like a longwinded boring marketing speak about gps |
| 15:53.21 | pompy | well the payload was a gps sat |
| 15:53.30 | pompy | so they were keeping it relevant |
| 15:53.34 | nevcairiel | still, a full marketing video about gps is dumb =p |
| 15:53.40 | nevcairiel | people watch for science and space |
| 15:55.33 | nevcairiel | and those two idiots are annoying as hell |
| 15:55.36 | nevcairiel | i prefer nasa videos :( |
| 15:57.55 | pompy | ~calm nevcairiel |
| 15:57.55 | purl | ACTION sooths nevcairiel, offers a backrub, tea, a jacuzzi and anything else that might help calm nevcairiel down. |
| 15:57.56 | pompy | ! |
| 15:59.04 | pompy | http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/16/world/europe/oskar-groning-auschwitz-nazi.html?smid=fb-share |
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| 16:52.50 | fewyn | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:53.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 17:16.03 | Stanzilla | fewyn: especially ify ou want the hidden achievement and title in tanaan |
| 17:20.40 | fewyn | hidden achievement? |
| 17:24.17 | Semlar | if you want to be labeled a predator |
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| 17:25.09 | Stanzilla | fewyn: http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=10334/predator#comments |
| 17:31.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@50-89-204-151.res.bhn.net) |
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| 17:40.19 | VIad | http://ss.bool.no/capture_1436982014.png well thats bullshit |
| 17:40.21 | VIad | rerolled him :p |
| 17:48.54 | fewyn | rip |
| 17:49.18 | fewyn | i wish professions weren't so crap this expansion |
| 17:50.59 | VIad | do /console farclip 1 |
| 17:51.01 | VIad | its awesome |
| 17:51.56 | Simca | http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-850-EVO-MZ-75E500B-AM-2-5-500GB-SATA-III-3-D-Vertical-Internal-Solid-St/301442365826 |
| 17:52.12 | Simca | 500GB Samsung SSD for $150 (via Newegg on Ebay) |
| 17:52.26 | Simca | pretty ridiculous price |
| 17:53.04 | Shirik | I think they're trying to compete with prime day |
| 17:53.16 | fewyn | man i wish i had money |
| 17:53.21 | fewyn | there's some nice prime day stuff today |
| 17:53.39 | Simca | Shirik: with that specific deal, they did more than just compete |
| 17:53.59 | Shirik | I wanted an amazon echo |
| 17:54.03 | Shirik | I did not get it |
| 17:54.13 | Shirik | and I'm not really willing to spend $179 on it |
| 17:54.17 | fewyn | since when has newegg actually been relevant? |
| 17:54.29 | fewyn | i think i only ever use it for reviews now |
| 17:54.37 | fewyn | haven't bought anything from them since 2013 |
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| 18:04.00 | karl_w_w | that glorius feeling when you hack around a problem |
| 18:04.25 | karl_w_w | teaching yourself a tiny bit of javascript along the way |
| 18:12.26 | zenzelezz | pompy: dangit, of course on the day I had to stay late at work :( |
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| 18:23.40 | Shirik | I just managed to cut myself on a clothes hanger |
| 18:23.48 | Unkle | Skills. |
| 18:23.52 | Shirik | indeed |
| 18:28.40 | Shirik | omg amazon is loading so slowly |
| 18:28.52 | Shirik | I wonder what aws is like |
| 18:29.10 | Unkle | They've been pushing their damned "Prime Day" sale all week - so I'm not shocked. |
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| 18:48.13 | Shirik | holy crap |
| 18:48.18 | Shirik | I managed to get on the waitlist for amazon echo :D |
| 18:48.34 | Shirik | who knows if I'll actually get through, but victory stage #1 |
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| 18:58.14 | mckenziemc | fewyn: their prices are still competitive, and amazon's price sorting is horrible |
| 18:58.31 | fewyn | true |
| 18:58.36 | mckenziemc | well, categorization really |
| 18:58.39 | fewyn | well not always on price |
| 18:58.49 | fewyn | usually i go to newegg to find reviews what exactly i'm looking for |
| 18:58.53 | fewyn | then pull it up on amazon and buy it |
| 18:59.27 | mckenziemc | i use pcpartpicker and the cheapest merchant is occasionally newegg |
| 19:00.01 | mckenziemc | for probably a third of the purchases i've made since using pcpp |
| 19:20.47 | *** join/#wowuidev Kalroth (~Kalroth@d40aabed.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 19:31.30 | Semlar | do the naval bonus missions never change unless you actually do them |
| 19:31.38 | Semlar | do any missions? |
| 19:32.27 | Semlar | i've had this mission that increases the amount of experience you get from missions in a specific area of the map for about 2 weeks |
| 19:33.17 | Semlar | mostly because i can't get 100% on it and i don't have any reason to complete it other than to remove it from the map |
| 19:36.45 | Gnarfoz | Semlar: yes to both, they change even when you do nothing |
| 19:37.09 | Semlar | apparently it's available for 21 days |
| 19:37.17 | Semlar | http://www.wowhead.com/mission=692/its-not-a-gravy-boat |
| 20:20.08 | VIad | Semlar: why do I spend 3.2s to mine with the draenor pick axe in my bags? |
| 20:20.17 | VIad | my friend takes 3.2s to mine as well and he dont got that item :/ |
| 20:21.00 | Semlar | link it |
| 20:22.43 | VIad | http://www.wowhead.com/item=116913 |
| 20:23.27 | Semlar | If this item and/or Gorepetal's Gentle Grasp seem to have stopped working in 6.2, you just have to put them in the bank or sell to a vendor, then get them back. |
| 20:23.39 | VIad | ehm... blizz? |
| 20:23.40 | VIad | wtf |
| 20:23.51 | VIad | isnt the "aura" applied on player login event or something? |
| 20:26.33 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~Lasse@cm-84.213.202.209.getinternet.no) |
| 20:26.45 | zenzelezz | well X, we really don't see eye to eye on resolutions |
| 20:29.21 | zenzelezz | before reboot: ran VGA+DVI, both fine at 1920x1080. After, switched to VGA+HDMI, now HDMI runs fine at 1920x1080, but X refuses to see anything higher than 1024x768 on the VGA |
| 20:30.45 | Dagmar | Interesting |
| 20:31.00 | Dagmar | Check the xorg.log and see what changed in what it's detecting from VGA |
| 20:31.18 | Dagmar | It might be that fbconsole grabbed them both up |
| 20:31.30 | Dagmar | I'm still getting used to that kernel functionality |
| 20:32.19 | Dagmar | Every time I set lilo params to try and set an 80x60 console just because it's basically guaranteed to work, and then halfway through booting I see the thing switch to 1280x1024 out of nowhere, it freaks me out |
| 20:32.39 | zenzelezz | hm, don't seem to have an xorg.log... must be called something else, or I've misconfigured it. Because Slackware |
| 20:32.56 | Dagmar | Ah. /var/log/Xorg.0.log |
| 20:33.50 | zenzelezz | ah, theree we go |
| 20:34.24 | Dagmar | I just set up a new box with 14.1 on it two nights ago so the whole "wtf. how did it do that?" is still fresh in my mind |
| 20:35.03 | Dagmar | The box it's replacing had a brain damaged Rage (not ironic at all, that) chipset that would literally "forget" all it's EDID tables when fboconsole initialized it |
| 20:35.22 | Dagmar | fbconsole literally _breaks_ the chipset |
| 20:35.34 | Dagmar | ...because it's buggy as fuck, not fbconsole |
| 20:36.06 | Dagmar | Xorg would attempt to initialize the thing and all the tables it woudl try to read came back full of zeros |
| 20:36.52 | Dagmar | hdmi means a different driver kicked in and may have grabbed the resources for everything and needs to be told something more specific about the VGA output |
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| 20:41.14 | zenzelezz | it seems to be using "vesa" driver for VGA, can't remember if it did before. "(WW) Falling back to old probe method for vesa" |
| 20:43.08 | Dagmar | Yep. That would be the fallback driver because it couldn't figure out how to talk to the VGA output with the _other_ driver in the way |
| 20:43.48 | Dagmar | KMS is still something I'm getting used to |
| 20:44.10 | zenzelezz | I should just get a cheap videocard and run both on HDMI |
| 20:44.20 | Dagmar | It's too easy to just go "Well, this doesn't really need a screen on it at all" |
| 20:46.31 | Dagmar | If you did not yet install the proprietary driver blobs you're in luck |
| 20:46.42 | Dagmar | If you did, you _may_ need to disable them or find a way to disable KMS |
| 20:47.07 | Dagmar | Neither nVidia's nor AMD drivers play nice with KMS |
| 20:50.13 | zenzelezz | using onboard graphics actually; Intel stuff |
| 20:50.26 | zenzelezz | haven't installed any drivers at all manually |
| 20:51.19 | Dagmar | Okay, that's good then |
| 20:53.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@75.133.100.116) |
| 20:54.21 | Dagmar | Oh wow. Are you using i915? There _may_ be a magic bullet for this |
| 20:54.52 | zenzelezz | that's a good question |
| 20:55.30 | Dagmar | Pass i915.modeset=1 in through LILO if you see it listed in the output of lsmod |
| 20:56.05 | zenzelezz | if I'm to believe dmesg, I do in fact seem to be using an i915 |
| 20:56.21 | Dagmar | At least that much will reduce the complexity to _ensuring_ the KMS modules are what initializes the video, so then you just have to find out how to pass the right params to it to get it to see both displays |
| 20:56.27 | Dagmar | X can talk to KMS just fine |
| 20:56.35 | Dagmar | Trying to go _around_ it, not so much |
| 20:56.45 | zenzelezz | let's see |
| 20:56.55 | Dagmar | With respect to video resources, There Can Be Only One |
| 20:57.56 | zenzelezz | I'm guessing that extra info goes in the "append"-value? |
| 20:58.43 | Dagmar | Yeah |
| 20:59.16 | Dagmar | ...then you have to run lilo to make it rewrite the boot thing, but you can actually just hit ctrl at bootup and manually type it in there |
| 20:59.58 | Dagmar | ...that way if you're wrong and something you put in makes the machine fall over and die you just have to three finger salute it to get going again, instead of _then_ figuring how to interrupt the boot process to countermand the new argument |
| 21:00.25 | Dagmar | Like, at the lilo prompt you'd type "linux i915.modeset=1" |
| 21:01.07 | Dagmar | I just had to pretend I was doing it and then look down at my goddamn hands so I'd know what you're supposed to press to interrupt it |
| 21:01.29 | Dagmar | I have been doin' this shit for _way_ too long |
| 21:02.15 | zenzelezz | let's see how this goes |
| 21:03.09 | Dagmar | It's either `lshw -C video` or `lshw -C display` that'll make the thing tell you what the end result is |
| 21:03.18 | Dagmar | I remember that seeing "UNCLAIMED" is not so good |
| 21:17.17 | Amarande | And yeah, don't you dare reboot without rerunning lilo |
| 21:17.22 | Amarande | otherwise you get fun like LIL- :) |
| 21:17.52 | Amarande | which means "Fuck, where'd I put my Ubuntu rescue USB this time ..." |
| 21:18.15 | Dagmar | Well, no. You can delete lilo.conf entirely and the system will never care... until you try running `lilo` again |
| 21:18.50 | Dagmar | If you get some weird incomplete LIL- stuff on the screen, it's best to have a small animal and some sanitary wipes nearby |
| 21:20.30 | Dagmar | Speaking of... I might need one myself. I keep screwing up a boot image that will let me go pure LVM |
| 21:20.55 | Dagmar | I think I'm just going to fall back to a pair of / partitions and an LVM partition and call it good enough for now |
| 21:21.46 | Amarande | I used to get LIL- pretty often, it generally came of building a new kernel (back in the day when you did that to update) and forgetting to rerun lilo |
| 21:21.58 | Amarande | then it was time to take out the live disc and rescue :P |
| 21:22.13 | Amarande | thank the gods for GRUB |
| 21:22.27 | Amarande | although oddly enough I did have problems with GRUB a few weeks ago |
| 21:22.41 | Dagmar | Dude, your mistake there was _replacing_ the working kernel image |
| 21:22.41 | Amarande | apparently for some reason I have to make sure it's installed as legacy boot and not EFI, even though EFI boot is supported on this mobo |
| 21:23.16 | Dagmar | You should just use the extra tag naming and just _add_ the new entry to lilo and relegate the old one to being a secondary option so you can fall back to it |
| 21:23.40 | Dagmar | I'm still hating EFI |
| 21:42.15 | Amarande | Yeah, the only time EFI really works without tears is in Windows, it seems :P |
| 21:42.24 | Amarande | or when booting the *installation disc* for Debian, that works too, heh |
| 21:42.48 | Amarande | Of course, you don't really need it in Linux unless your boot drive is ginormous, anyway. |
| 21:43.21 | Amarande | Which this machine's isn't, this one only has a single 160GB hard drive. The 240GB SSD and the 1TB hard drive are packed away in the Xeon. |
| 21:44.32 | Amarande | (And frankly, I'm not really sure why anyone buys those huge hard drives for geekery usage, I can't even manage to fill up the 1TB drive when I'm using *Windows*) |
| 21:45.12 | Amarande | I'd have to do something silly like rip all my DVDs to the hard drive or something to do that. (Not just my CDs, even if I rip those to lossless, that's not even going to hit a quarter of a TB) |
| 21:45.20 | Dagmar | You don't even want to know how many hard drives I have sitting on the desk next to me. |
| 21:45.36 | Amarande | Dagmar: why are they on the desk instead of in the computer? :) |
| 21:45.42 | Dagmar | I was rounding up all the ones I'd temporarily removed from something last night |
| 21:46.00 | Dagmar | Apparently I need to build a second fileserver, or invest in some more controller cards |
| 21:46.52 | Dagmar | When I have to upgrade a box I have a tendency to just go buy the one with the biggest storage per buck, stick it in the machine, clone the data, and then set the other one aside until I can find another use for it. |
| 21:47.22 | Dagmar | Four 250Gb drives, three 500Gb drives, and a couple of ~1.2Tb disks. |
| 21:48.06 | Dagmar | When they're in little piles all over the house you don't really notice how many of them there are lying around |
| 21:48.46 | Dagmar | But on the bright side now I can play with some physical redundancy and iSCSI |
| 21:49.41 | Dagmar | You know how some people in the backwoods have a bunch of junkers around? That's my apartment, except for computery bits |
| 21:50.34 | Dagmar | I thought I was going to be able to put more RAM in the new box, so I pulled six sticks (none of which were the right speed) from likely candidate motherboards that were also just lying around |
| 21:51.07 | Dagmar | the MythTV box now has 4Gb in it instead of 1 tho. :) |
| 21:52.49 | Amarande | hmm, this is odd |
| 21:52.54 | Amarande | why do I have a file "Databases.db" in my ~ ? |
| 21:53.03 | Amarande | I'm not quite sure what program you use to examine it. |
| 21:53.03 | Dagmar | It may be awhile before I get caught up. To say it's going to be "painful" and "tedious" to resolve the "omg so many disks" issue is an understatement. I'll need to stripe and span a bunch of stuff to bring the throughput back above the gigabit backbone here |
| 21:53.15 | Dagmar | Amarande: vim. :) |
| 21:53.17 | nevcairiel | possibly sqlite |
| 21:53.30 | Dagmar | If it came out of a phone, nevcariel is probably right |
| 21:53.33 | nevcairiel | its commonly used and uses a db extension more often than not |
| 21:54.04 | Dagmar | The 6tb fileserver is presently 60% full |
| 21:54.14 | Amarande | Dagmar: nope, it materialised on my linux machine in my home |
| 21:54.28 | Dagmar | Maybe something you ran created it |
| 21:54.30 | Amarande | the only thing I can recognise here of any significance is "http://www.newegg.com" with what I think are zeroes in between |
| 21:55.04 | nevcairiel | an sqlite file would start with a string saying so |
| 21:55.15 | nevcairiel | so either it does that, or its something else |
| 21:55.27 | Amarande | yeah, it's an sqlite file, there's a few SQL commands in the mix, and http://www.newegg.com with apparently zeroes in between the characters |
| 21:55.36 | Amarande | everything else appears to be binary, and I think it may all be zeroes |
| 21:55.41 | Amarande | ^@ is 0, right? |
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| 21:58.16 | Dagmar | Yeah it's NUL |
| 21:58.32 | Dagmar | So... wide chars then |
| 21:58.37 | Amarande | I'd show a screenshot of it, but apparently I can't seem to manage to screenshot a window in KDE |
| 21:58.46 | Amarande | alt+printscreen leaves GIMP saying there's no image data in the clipboard |
| 22:00.43 | Amarande | oh, there's a snapshot app. how clunky. |
| 22:02.30 | Stanzilla | wtf is that http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/19818013/in-development-pvp-mercenary-mode-7-15-2015 |
| 22:02.55 | kd3 | lol, just about to link that |
| 22:05.29 | Stanzilla | rift had something similiar irrc |
| 22:06.27 | Amarande | ah, and there's also an actual reader program for sqlite, yay |
| 22:06.36 | Amarande | it apparently contains this: http://pastebin.ca/3062422 |
| 22:06.44 | Amarande | and it was left in my home dir a week ago |
| 22:06.50 | Amarande | not the foggiest idea *why*, though :S |
| 22:07.56 | Amarande | eh. looks like something that can just be rm'd, anyways :) |
| 22:09.39 | Amarande | seems like it may have been chrome glitching and leaving behind cruft |
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| 22:40.21 | karl_w_w | you know who really pisses me off? people who say mods have to be free because that's the way it's always been, or because "modding is a hobby" |
| 22:41.13 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:143:4000:ed70:192d:b3cc:19a:af98) |
| 22:42.14 | Dagmar | Well, they don't have to be free but with a potential userbase in the millions, money being involved will attract a ton of snake-oil salesmen, shills, and fraudsters |
| 22:43.03 | Mr_Rabies | it definitely will degrade the average quality of mods when people can make a buck for garbage, at least when garbage is free you know someone did it because they loved it, not to make a buck |
| 22:43.29 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (as@2601:143:4000:ed70:8575:35ee:b788:aae) |
| 22:43.32 | Mr_Rabies | just look at any phone app store, steam, etc |
| 22:45.39 | Mr_Rabies | it also taints the modding community where people are gonna even lock down the licenses on their free mods, etc |
| 22:46.17 | Gnarfoz | p3lim: I'm often left with a broken quest dialog when turning in the 2 daily quests in a row to Vindicator Krethos :( I have to close the dialog and click him again |
| 22:46.18 | Mr_Rabies | if i was making a moddable game i'd explicitly make it against the ToS to charge for a mod, personally |
| 22:46.45 | karl_w_w | absolutely, those are great reasons not to have paid mods. "I want it for free" isn't |
| 22:46.56 | Mr_Rabies | why not? |
| 22:47.19 | Mr_Rabies | not wanting to pay for a mod is a pretty good reason to not want paid mods, in my opinion |
| 22:48.42 | karl_w_w | it's not a good reason to expect them to be though |
| 22:51.52 | Mr_Rabies | why not? |
| 22:53.53 | Mr_Rabies | paying (for a digital product especially) is a courtesy offered by the user, not anything they actually have to do |
| 23:00.48 | mckenziemc | creating a mod is not something the author has to do; while they may want to make the basic mod anyway, releasing it is a courtesy, as is fleshing out features :p |
| 23:01.17 | Mr_Rabies | absolutely |
| 23:01.32 | Amarande | Snake Charm? Really? Eff you, RNG |
| 23:02.02 | Mr_Rabies | what does a user that doesn't want to pay for mods have to gain for paid mods being allowed in a game's TOS? |
| 23:02.23 | Mr_Rabies | they only have stuff to lose, generally |
| 23:02.40 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: ugh, the ARR vs. open source licence wars |
| 23:03.14 | Mr_Rabies | i don't really believe in the idea of a software license anyway, i pay for products that i think are worth being paid for, that's it |
| 23:05.23 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: plus when paid mods become a thing it makes it even harder for hobbyists to make good use of the modding system |
| 23:05.51 | Amarande | unless they're making games for themselves (except, well, you know, by the time you've made a game, you've already played it through about 57 million times while testing it, so there's not so much in it for *you* anymore) |
| 23:06.02 | Mr_Rabies | i look at software like weaponry, if you don't want someone taking it you better lock it down and hide the tools you used to make it |
| 23:06.17 | Mr_Rabies | tools, schematics, etc (aka the source code) |
| 23:06.21 | Mr_Rabies | otherwise it's fair game |
| 23:06.32 | Amarande | because you get professional outfits that go and make paid mods to that standard that these days only a commercial team can really hope to achieve |
| 23:06.37 | mckenziemc | no, then you run into a different ethical issue :p |
| 23:06.44 | Amarande | and then the free labour-of-love mods have a tendency to get ignored |
| 23:07.18 | Amarande | even if they're good, they often get ignored because they have less polish, and people for some reason equate polish with overall fun potential |
| 23:07.34 | mckenziemc | whether information itself should be free (different from implementations and their use) |
| 23:07.47 | Amarande | (God only knows why ... then again, I'm weird, I'm sitting here playing Curse of the Azure Bonds for about the 20th time and don't mind the 1989 EGA graphics ... LOL) |
| 23:07.53 | mckenziemc | books are copyrighted, but you can see and learn from the content |
| 23:08.18 | mckenziemc | you just can't take parts of the same text for your own profit, or create your own work but have it essentially be a re-wording |
| 23:09.05 | Amarande | mckenziemc: same plot, different world? people do that one all the time :) |
| 23:09.07 | mckenziemc | plus if software is "locked down", it becomes harder to check if it's a rip-off of someone else's work |
| 23:09.54 | mckenziemc | inconsequential nuance of the word "can" |
| 23:10.00 | Amarande | Although there's been spats over that too if I remember right ... seem to recall the creators of Grandia II got rather pissed off at Final Fantasy X |
| 23:10.10 | Mr_Rabies | you definitely can, mckenziemc |
| 23:10.18 | Mr_Rabies | it happens all the time |
| 23:10.25 | Amarande | (Which I recall got resolved by Square Enix simply up and *buying out* the company that made Grandia, since Grandia III had the Square Enix brand on it, heh) |
| 23:10.28 | mckenziemc | see above |
| 23:10.40 | Mr_Rabies | if it's locked down, it can't really be a rip-off of someone's work |
| 23:10.49 | mckenziemc | false |
| 23:11.19 | mckenziemc | there are ways to obtain implementation details other than what the author publicly released :p |
| 23:11.35 | mckenziemc | and i'm not just talking about reverse-engineering |
| 23:11.43 | Amarande | but yes, commercial mods 1) ought to be able to coexist with the community without degrading the latter, and 2) ought not to be mobile app garbage |
| 23:11.44 | mckenziemc | bigger scale, espionage |
| 23:11.54 | Amarande | like ... NO I WILL NOT BUY FIVE MORE MOVES FOR A DOLLAR, GO AWAY KING.COM |
| 23:12.01 | Amarande | that's a good example of how *not* to charge a dollar :) |
| 23:12.06 | Mr_Rabies | oh definitely, but you're doing the spy's job for them if you release the source code |
| 23:12.32 | mckenziemc | i addressed that above too |
| 23:12.49 | Amarande | plus if software is locked down, security audits are a lot harder |
| 23:12.57 | mckenziemc | and all the security vulnerabilities we see nowadays show another flaw in your reasoning :p |
| 23:13.10 | Amarande | one wonders whether hacking team would have had that exploit pinata to break open in the first place if flash had been open sourced |
| 23:13.29 | Amarande | presumably such things would have been found and fixed aeons ago if that was the case, given how ubiquitous flash is |
| 23:13.40 | mckenziemc | even if a producer claims their product meets some specification (not just security), you can't trust them |
| 23:15.21 | Amarande | plus security is an especially dire issue with gaming, because of the cheating arms race |
| 23:15.22 | mckenziemc | anyway, karl_w_w's point was not that wanting things to be free is unreasonable, but that *expecting* them to be free because of that desire is not |
| 23:15.47 | Mr_Rabies | the consumer is entitled to expect whatever he wishes |
| 23:15.51 | Amarande | and apparently some anti-cheat companies (evil, oops I mean even balance I'm looking at you) have decided to just pretty much skip the arms race and do away with caring about user security altogether :P |
| 23:16.01 | mckenziemc | you're still missing the point |
| 23:16.12 | mckenziemc | it can still be unreasonable |
| 23:16.37 | Amarande | never mind that cheating is pretty much diamond-crusted 100% going to win the arms race in the end |
| 23:16.41 | mckenziemc | happens =/= reasonable |
| 23:16.46 | Mr_Rabies | consumers set the market, not producers |
| 23:16.47 | mckenziemc | though that depends on context too |
| 23:16.51 | mckenziemc | uh no |
| 23:16.57 | mckenziemc | there would be no market with producers |
| 23:17.00 | mckenziemc | it's mutual |
| 23:17.34 | Mr_Rabies | the power of pricing is really in the consumer's hands in the end, especially with something like this |
| 23:17.43 | mckenziemc | enforcability sets the market |
| 23:17.45 | Amarande | yeah, without a customer, you don't have a business |
| 23:17.48 | mckenziemc | which is still beside the point |
| 23:17.59 | Amarande | if you do not provide a product the customer wants, at a price the customer wants to pay, you don't have a customer |
| 23:18.07 | Mr_Rabies | even if corporate interests have tried to convince the consumers they have no power, they have all the powers |
| 23:18.17 | Mr_Rabies | power, blol |
| 23:18.24 | Amarande | you may have a thief, as publishers of overpriced software experience on a basically daily basis, but you don't have a customer |
| 23:18.25 | mckenziemc | they have as much power as they can enforce |
| 23:18.40 | Amarande | you can't make someone buy your product against their will |
| 23:18.57 | Amarande | well, unless you, say, convince the government that your product is somehow systemically vital and requires everyone to buy it :P |
| 23:18.59 | mckenziemc | you can't make someone create and sell a product against their own will, generally |
| 23:19.15 | Amarande | however, I doubt there will ever be a law saying that you're required to buy video game mods :) |
| 23:19.38 | mckenziemc | you're focusing on one side of an issue and forgetting to look at counter-acting factors on the opposite side |
| 23:19.43 | Mr_Rabies | nope, but you can force them to not charge/not release a product if you refuse to pay for it |
| 23:19.55 | Amarande | hell, even when the product *is* systemically vital and works poorly unless everyone buys in, there's enough public backlash to making said purchase mandatory :P |
| 23:20.07 | foxlit | just because *you* don't want to pay for stuff, doesn't mean that nobody else does. |
| 23:20.09 | mckenziemc | an important factor is still an important factor, but does not preclude the possibility of others existing |
| 23:20.15 | Mr_Rabies | that's fine foxlit |
| 23:20.21 | Mr_Rabies | they are also entitled to their opinion |
| 23:20.24 | Mr_Rabies | that's how it works |
| 23:20.29 | mckenziemc | yes, enforcability |
| 23:20.45 | foxlit | excellent. So, enforced paid content mods tomorrow, none for you, some for someone else. |
| 23:21.02 | Mr_Rabies | i'd just pirate 'em |
| 23:21.04 | mckenziemc | ? |
| 23:21.07 | Amarande | yup, eventually they will be forced to make a product that enough people want, or else they'll have to fold and go get a day job |
| 23:21.27 | foxlit | "enforcable" implies you don't have a reasonable way of pirating them. |
| 23:21.31 | mckenziemc | uh no |
| 23:21.38 | Amarande | although that's where you can often tell the labours of love from the soulless commercial product |
| 23:22.00 | Amarande | if something was really someone's creative baby, after being unable to successfully sell it, there's a good chance they'll release it for free, just because they want it to still get enjoyed |
| 23:22.00 | mckenziemc | i'm not referring to producer's enforcability specifically |
| 23:22.02 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think that's possible, considering that just about every game is pretty easily piratable and game developers definitely have more resources than mod makers.... |
| 23:22.06 | Amarande | the soulless commercial product will probably just bite the dust :P |
| 23:22.12 | Mr_Rabies | or the mod makers would be game developers, i'd think |
| 23:22.13 | mckenziemc | i said it's what sets the market, it works on both sides |
| 23:22.27 | mckenziemc | what consumers can enforce producers must accept |
| 23:22.29 | Amarande | mind you, that is kind of depressing. |
| 23:22.37 | Amarande | because it means you should always buy the soulless commercial product. :( |
| 23:22.50 | mckenziemc | what producers can enforce affects what consumers must accept |
| 23:23.04 | mckenziemc | what realistic, practical issues enforce affects what both must accept |
| 23:23.13 | foxlit | WoW is kind of not easily piratable. |
| 23:23.20 | Amarande | why? because the commercial product won't exist at all unless you buy it, while there's a good chance that the labour of love will become available whether or not you offer to buy it |
| 23:23.29 | mckenziemc | you |
| 23:23.30 | mckenziemc | define you |
| 23:23.43 | mckenziemc | if you do it right, there will be a link to enforcability |
| 23:23.48 | Mr_Rabies | i disagree, it's insanely piratable, but the game services aren't all piratable |
| 23:23.49 | Amarande | especially since most of us creatives make the strategic error of creating the product *first* and *then* thinking about selling it :S |
| 23:24.01 | Amarande | whereas the commercial product will not be made at all without already having some promise that it will sell |
| 23:24.03 | Mr_Rabies | the product is piratable, the service isn't |
| 23:24.13 | Mr_Rabies | some are, but not all of them, for sure |
| 23:24.30 | foxlit | basically, there's no way, right now, that you could go and raid HFC without paying Blizzard money. |
| 23:24.46 | Mr_Rabies | but how would you make a mod unpiratable? you're not generally allowed source-code level access to a game to make a mod, just whatever their SDK allows, at best |
| 23:24.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@ool-182d7861.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:24.57 | Amarande | foxlit: yeah, probably why online multiplayer is such a popular paradigm |
| 23:25.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Outrider (~Outrider@209-147-144-23.nat.asu.edu) |
| 23:25.07 | Amarande | because then you can sell it more as GaaS than as "software" |
| 23:25.38 | mckenziemc | not everyone will pirate any given type of product |
| 23:26.03 | mckenziemc | i suppose "bargaining power" would've been the more familiar term |
| 23:26.10 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: hell, most of the time you can't even modify the game files anymore (there's usually something in the EULA about it, though I don't usually dig too deep in those) |
| 23:26.22 | Mr_Rabies | and if a mod is really popular enough to sell and have DRM, there's a pretty decent chance the developer would just offer a similar product as DLC and cash in on that interest |
| 23:26.29 | Amarande | gone also seem to be the grand old days of .exe modding like Dehacked or the Unlimited Adventures CKIT mods |
| 23:26.39 | foxlit | Mr_Rabies: in a hypothetical game that encourages paid mods, they'd be secured by the same mechanism the game itself is. |
| 23:27.00 | foxlit | in WoWs case, they could just disable local mod installations and stream stuff you've paid for from their servers. |
| 23:27.19 | Amarande | well, actually the UA community still survives, and still mods it, but that's still the same old game from '93, I mean you can't do it with a game from this decade :P |
| 23:27.20 | Mr_Rabies | definitely, but would anyone really want to play such an anti-consumer game? |
| 23:27.33 | mckenziemc | probably |
| 23:27.38 | Amarande | and so does the Doom community, although with modern source ports Dehacked patches don't have to actually mod the .exe anymore |
| 23:27.40 | foxlit | If the game is any good, I don't care that you can't pirate it. |
| 23:27.42 | MysticalOS | the in game api actually supports mod signatures and secure mods. it's just not used |
| 23:27.57 | Mr_Rabies | wow's probably the least consumer-friendly game i'd ever pay for, honestly |
| 23:27.58 | Amarande | foxlit: what about historical lacunae, though? |
| 23:28.02 | MysticalOS | TOM_RUS played with it once, cause he loves hacking away at wow client |
| 23:28.19 | Amarande | foxlit: a game that depends on an online server to play at all, is lost forever once the servers are gone |
| 23:28.30 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, games like that are worthless to me |
| 23:28.31 | Amarande | thus becoming a forever hole in the archival history of gaming |
| 23:28.32 | foxlit | life is ephemeral anyway. |
| 23:28.38 | mckenziemc | ^ |
| 23:28.48 | Amarande | You can still play Wizardry I. You can't play Tabula Rasa or City of Heroes anymore. |
| 23:28.50 | Mr_Rabies | wow's the only game that only exists online of any worth to me, because it's such a solid service being provided |
| 23:29.14 | Amarande | (Mind you, you might want to play some rounds of Candy Crush Saga to get warmed up for Wizardry ... because Wizardry is just THAT level of torture hard) |
| 23:29.15 | foxlit | if HL2 disappeared tomorrow, I'd still be relatively happy with my experience with the game 10 years ago. |
| 23:29.50 | Mr_Rabies | i'm relatively unhappy with that game as is and i could still play it any day but that's another story |
| 23:30.00 | Mr_Rabies | basically the whole middle of that game is terrible in every way |
| 23:30.20 | Mr_Rabies | i love valve, but my god is HL2 boring in comparison to any other game they've ever made |
| 23:31.35 | Amarande | I've only played a little bit of HL2, but isn't it like, totally on rails? |
| 23:31.43 | Amarande | just like nearly every modern fps seems to be :( |
| 23:31.47 | mckenziemc | uh |
| 23:31.54 | mckenziemc | you wouldn't say that for HL1? |
| 23:32.02 | foxlit | it's probably a similar argument as reasonable life expectancy for any other consumer good. |
| 23:32.04 | Amarande | Gone seem to be the good old days of freely exploring the level and searching for all kinds of hidden stuff |
| 23:32.45 | Amarande | now if you go off the beaten path it's RETURN TO THE COMBAT AREA! |
| 23:32.54 | foxlit | If it breaks sooner than is reasonable, it should be covered by some warranty mechanism. In case of most games, "sooner than expected" might be as short as like 2 years for me. |
| 23:33.02 | Amarande | or as in the half-life games (at least hl2), there just isn't much in the way of side paths TO take |
| 23:34.02 | mckenziemc | Amarande, i have a suggestion |
| 23:34.03 | mckenziemc | play life |
| 23:34.51 | Kraps | le good old days |
| 23:35.51 | Amarande | mckenziemc: heh, that game's kinda gone too far towards pay to win these days :D |
| 23:36.14 | Amarande | that's the whole reason people get pissed off when *games* are made pay to win |
| 23:36.14 | mckenziemc | quite teh opposite |
| 23:36.20 | mckenziemc | the money is earned inside the game |
| 23:36.27 | Amarande | if we wanted an experience where you basically have to pay your way to victory, we have real life for that :) |
| 23:36.33 | Semlar | pirates foxlit |
| 23:36.44 | foxlit | yarrr? |
| 23:36.55 | Semlar | yo hoho |
| 23:37.18 | Mr_Rabies | foxlit: the temporary nature of so many modern games kills me a little everytime i think of it |
| 23:37.30 | Mr_Rabies | i love that if i want to go back and play super mario world, it's there |
| 23:37.36 | Mr_Rabies | 100%, always availabe |
| 23:37.48 | foxlit | *everything* breaks. |
| 23:38.00 | foxlit | Whatever computer you run that on will break. |
| 23:38.13 | Mr_Rabies | it's called a SNES, and it's got some life left on it yet |
| 23:38.24 | Mr_Rabies | probably will outlive me if i continue taking care of it |
| 23:38.28 | foxlit | "for a while yet" isn't "always" |
| 23:38.34 | Amarande | mckenziemc: actually these days the amount of money earnable through in-game tasks is usually kind of small ... most of it seems to come through cheats and exploits, outright RNG, or having received the special diamond collector's edition at character creation :) |
| 23:38.45 | Mr_Rabies | and frankly i don't really care about anything that happens after i'm dead |
| 23:39.10 | Mr_Rabies | once i'm in the ground for good the whole planet could slam into the sun for all i care |
| 23:39.20 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: sure you're not going to get reincarnated? :) |
| 23:39.39 | Mr_Rabies | as long as that doesn't happen while i'm alive, i don't really care |
| 23:39.52 | Mr_Rabies | not sure, Amarande, but then i won't be me, i'll be someone else |
| 23:39.53 | Amarande | foxlit: if the computer is sufficiently simple and available computing power sufficiently advanced, you just emulate it through software |
| 23:40.00 | Mr_Rabies | you are you experiences, your memories |
| 23:40.14 | mckenziemc | as long as computers are still around |
| 23:40.19 | Amarande | the 8 and 16 bit era will probably never die unless the information comprising it somehow is eliminated, which is nigh impossible barring a total end to technological society |
| 23:40.20 | mckenziemc | in any comparable form |
| 23:40.39 | Mr_Rabies | and yeah, if i wanted to play super mario world once my NES died, i could always emulate :v |
| 23:41.01 | Mr_Rabies | but i can't even go back and play battlefield bad company 2, a game still offered on steam, and get anywhere near the same experience i got when it was in its prime |
| 23:41.04 | Mr_Rabies | and that makes me sad |
| 23:41.22 | mckenziemc | that's unavoidable |
| 23:41.27 | Mr_Rabies | it is |
| 23:41.31 | Mr_Rabies | but it still makes me sad |
| 23:41.40 | mckenziemc | i could play metroid prime and the experience wouldn't be the same as the first times i played it |
| 23:41.47 | Mr_Rabies | i would have rather never played it than have played it and never be able to return to it |
| 23:42.18 | Mr_Rabies | that's why i so rarely buy online-only games unless they're super cheap nowadays |
| 23:42.28 | Amarande | what makes me go *sigh* is trying to emulate without pirating |
| 23:42.34 | foxlit | I think you're being unreasonable. |
| 23:42.42 | Amarande | couple games I'd like to play, but they need translation patches to play in english |
| 23:43.00 | Amarande | and while the carts are readily obtainable at a reasonable price, I don't at all know how you copy a cart over to the computer so you can emulate |
| 23:43.13 | Amarande | (seeing that you can't very well apply a translation patch to ROM chips :P) |
| 23:43.17 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think it's unreasonable, i just don't find such temporary games worth very much |
| 23:43.31 | Mr_Rabies | maybe $10 at most |
| 23:43.51 | Mr_Rabies | usually by the time they're that cheap the game's already dead |
| 23:43.52 | Mr_Rabies | so |
| 23:43.56 | Mr_Rabies | they saved me $10 |
| 23:44.31 | foxlit | The unreasonable thing is that you should be evaluating the value of things based on the experince they provide you with when you spend your money |
| 23:44.56 | foxlit | not on the hypothetical and-forevermore enjoyment. |
| 23:45.08 | Mr_Rabies | the unreasonable thing is telling someone else what their values should be |
| 23:46.12 | foxlit | that, I think, is called "society". |
| 23:46.14 | Mr_Rabies | money spent is money forever gone, and the value of a product is entirely based on its value over my lifetime |
| 23:46.19 | Mr_Rabies | to me |
| 23:47.03 | Mr_Rabies | i've saved so much money not buying every new $60 game that dies within a year |
| 23:47.07 | Mr_Rabies | so, so much money |
| 23:47.08 | foxlit | what happens when you apply that to, say, food? |
| 23:47.18 | foxlit | or amusement park trips? |
| 23:47.27 | Mr_Rabies | i do base it on amusement park trips |
| 23:47.29 | Mr_Rabies | i don't go to them |
| 23:47.30 | Mr_Rabies | :v |
| 23:47.36 | Mr_Rabies | they're a waste of money |
| 23:47.51 | foxlit | movies in theatres? |
| 23:47.57 | Mr_Rabies | ditto |
| 23:47.58 | Mr_Rabies | well |
| 23:47.59 | foxlit | plays in theatres? concerts? |
| 23:48.06 | foxlit | visits to art galleries? |
| 23:48.11 | Mr_Rabies | i only see very, very, very good movies in theaters |
| 23:48.36 | Mr_Rabies | otherwise i buy/rent em on blu-ray or pirate them if they're just mediocre |
| 23:48.49 | Mr_Rabies | well, very, very entertaining movies |
| 23:48.56 | Mr_Rabies | that use the theater format well |
| 23:49.23 | Amarande | foxlit: heh, wish I could give up that whole 'eat' thing |
| 23:49.24 | Mr_Rabies | otherwise, i have a projector at home |
| 23:49.28 | Amarande | it costs way too much these days :( |
| 23:49.32 | Mr_Rabies | i wish i could too |
| 23:49.35 | foxlit | but that money is also forever gone, on an experience you won't be able to relive. |
| 23:49.42 | Mr_Rabies | i love eating and i'm fat and wish i hated eating |
| 23:50.13 | Mr_Rabies | definitely, but if that experience was much more than it was i probably wouldn't feel bad about just not doing it anymore |
| 23:50.24 | Mr_Rabies | er |
| 23:50.30 | Mr_Rabies | much more expensive than it IS |
| 23:50.45 | Mr_Rabies | there was a gap of time where i didn't see a movie in a theater for like, 5-6 years |
| 23:50.58 | Mr_Rabies | basically pre-iron man |
| 23:51.04 | Mr_Rabies | i just pirated everything |
| 23:51.15 | foxlit | so, basically, we agree that it is worth paying for some ephemeral experiences, even if you can't replay them forever. |
| 23:51.19 | Amarande | yeah I haven't been to the movies since 2007, I've just watched things on netflix or disc or TV |
| 23:51.29 | Semlar | like a hooker |
| 23:51.30 | Mr_Rabies | i'm talkin' goldmember with chinese subtitles pirating |
| 23:51.46 | Mr_Rabies | i'm not saying it's not worth paying for them, i'm saying as fleeting moments they're not worth very much, foxlit |
| 23:51.48 | Amarande | next time I might go is probably going to be SW VII |
| 23:51.54 | Mr_Rabies | i also don't pay $100 for a meal |
| 23:52.03 | Mr_Rabies | hell, i don't pay $10 if i can avoid it |
| 23:52.37 | foxlit | I think the perception of value is largely distorated by the "I'll just get it for free!" option. |
| 23:52.42 | Mr_Rabies | and they need to be exceptional to be worth much as a fleeting moment |
| 23:53.03 | Mr_Rabies | if i couldn't pirate movies, i'd probably just not watch movies |
| 23:53.11 | Mr_Rabies | even good ones i'd pay for now |
| 23:54.50 | Semlar | is the damage of a cast determined when you start or end it |
| 23:55.00 | foxlit | I'd ask you what you'd do with all the money you'd save, but it seems like that amount would be pretty close to 0 anyway. |
| 23:55.06 | Mr_Rabies | start, i believe, semlar, but don't quote me on that |
| 23:55.08 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 23:55.33 | Mr_Rabies | the amount of money i -have- is so close to 0, that's a huge part of it |
| 23:55.38 | mckenziemc | seem to recall it being at the end, but i don't really remember |
| 23:55.51 | Mr_Rabies | if i had a massive amount of disposable income i'd probably think of things differently |
| 23:55.52 | Semlar | alright well it's almost certainly one of them |
| 23:55.59 | mckenziemc | and projectile spells are still at cast end, before projectile strike |
| 23:56.00 | mckenziemc | lol |
| 23:56.19 | Mr_Rabies | it might be during or possibly never, Semlar |
| 23:56.31 | Semlar | i think it's determined at some point |
| 23:56.35 | Mr_Rabies | it might be |
| 23:56.48 | foxlit | shrödinger's DoT. |
| 23:56.57 | Mr_Rabies | that's how i feel about feral right now |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | managing the dot snapshotting is a nightmare now |
| 23:59.19 | mckenziemc | i think blizzard explained it a bit when they were messing with dot rolling |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | i thought they did away with it, but it's definitely there for feral still |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | it just feels random as hell how much damage i'm doing at times |
| 23:59.19 | mckenziemc | don't remember when that was |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | one fight i'll do 35k, and the next attempt i'll seemingly do just about the same thing and pull 42k |
| 23:59.19 | Semlar | i think it's the end of the cast |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | i'm guessing a lot of that has to do with how much feral relies on its 3 minute cooldowns |
| 23:59.19 | Mr_Rabies | it's 100% reliant on one talent for the whole spec |
| 23:59.59 | Mr_Rabies | but yeah foxlit if i had more disposable income i'd probably focus on my health first and then probably buy more temporary games |
