| 00:00.06 | Primer | Anyhow, I want this macro to only work if I'm NOT already in meta, which would require a stance conditional |
| 00:00.11 | Amarande | since I understand that's the only way you get gem sockets in 6.0 |
| 00:00.18 | Primer | Amarande: all professions suck now |
| 00:00.35 | Primer | especially JC |
| 00:00.57 | Amarande | actually come to think of it, that PvP warlock thing makes me sad about the level boost's existence now :( |
| 00:01.34 | foxlit | enchanting/alchemy: for when you absolutely, positively, do not want to get the "craft X epic items" archievement |
| 00:01.58 | Amarande | foxlit: there's purple tier enchants that would make purple vellums, right? |
| 00:02.01 | Amarande | pretty sure there were in the past |
| 00:02.27 | Amarande | alchemy, yeah, that's pretty much a suck for epic item crafting, seeing as about the only epic you're gonna craft as alchemist is the current expansion's alchemist stone trinket (if those are even still a thing this time around) |
| 00:02.49 | Amarande | there still the infiniflask/potion and the stone trinket? |
| 00:02.53 | Primer | http://macro-wow.com/guide/how-to-use-the-stance-form-conditional-in-wow-macros/ |
| 00:03.10 | Primer | with the /run, shows I'm in stance 0 normally and 1 in demon form |
| 00:03.44 | Amarande | last time I played was in 5.4 ... I did read the 6.0 patch notes but I'm pretty sure they didn't have crafting down to that much detail :) |
| 00:04.10 | Primer | Which leads me back to my original macro, which doesn't work... |
| 00:04.44 | foxlit | so what part of /cast [stance:0] Metamorphosis\n/cast Dark Soul: Knowledge doesn't do what you want? |
| 00:04.49 | Amarande | As for why (warlock, or any class) pvp balance makes me sad about the level boost ... it's because realising that the level boost actually means Blizzard has no incentive to make PvP better balanced in any given patch, in fact it gives them every reason to FOTM it up :( |
| 00:04.54 | Primer | Basically I want this: If I'm not a demon, make me a demon and cast dark soul, OR, if I'm already a demon, just cast dark soul |
| 00:05.07 | Primer | foxlit: I don't become a demon |
| 00:05.22 | Primer | or |
| 00:05.25 | Primer | I must have had a typo |
| 00:05.28 | Primer | because now it works |
| 00:05.31 | foxlit | yes. |
| 00:05.57 | Semlar | problem solved forever! |
| 00:06.00 | Amarande | Primer: gotta love those punctuation mark typos in coding :) |
| 00:06.14 | Amarande | ... say, didn't Apple cause some kind of massive security hole in iphones a while back because of a semicolon or some such? heh |
| 00:06.30 | Primer | yeah, in SSL |
| 00:07.09 | Amarande | and yet iphones have enduring popularity |
| 00:07.17 | Amarande | to the point that as an android user I've been getting this disquieting feeling lately |
| 00:07.32 | Amarande | specifically, the kind of feeling that people who bought a Betamax must have got :S |
| 00:11.20 | Constie | Just like how they had no incentive to make PvP better balanced before, since people had to maintain subscriptions to level their new characters. |
| 00:14.35 | Amarande | yeah, that's true |
| 00:14.51 | Amarande | though I'm not sure how viable it was to level a new character back then, given that you'll be horribly outgunned on gear by the time you catch up |
| 00:15.20 | Amarande | with the boost, you might have a chance of getting the new class to 100 before that happens (hence swapping FOTMs guarantees a lot of boost sales among hardcore PvP) |
| 00:16.02 | Amarande | I keep thinking of getting into PvP, but I never quite get around to it (might have to do with that I keep ending up playing classes like Warlock that seem to eternally get dumped on ... heh) |
| 00:17.03 | Amarande | or with the fact that with my lack of achievement experience I'll probably never get to play anything but YOLOs LOL |
| 00:20.50 | Constie | Horribly outgunned in the week or two it would take to level a new character? |
| 00:21.43 | Amarande | hah, that could be another reason I don't PvP |
| 00:22.38 | Amarande | In order to be competitive in PvP, you actually DO have to level fast so you don't fall too far behind on gear, and I don't think that ratio of Monsters to hours slept is good for me :) |
| 00:46.44 | mckenziemc | nor messages / hour |
| 01:04.04 | Amarande | heh |
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| 01:55.29 | kd3 | I want to get off Mr. Bones' Wild Road: https://i.imgur.com/3xEzAyg.jpg |
| 02:04.05 | Amarande | kd3: that looks like tales I've heard about the highways in Texas |
| 02:04.10 | Amarande | or was it California |
| 02:04.13 | Amarande | or maybe both, heh |
| 02:10.11 | Thunder_Child | That runway through the side is freakin tiny. |
| 02:12.22 | Amarande | wait, there's a car overpass OVER the airport runway ... LOL |
| 02:12.46 | Amarande | I sure hope WoW physics are in effect in this world ... |
| 02:22.03 | Constie | Also if the plane went forward the wing would hit that pillar. But planes can just use the highways instead, it's fine. |
| 02:23.14 | kullervo | ... is that road a clusterfuck ON PURPOSE? |
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| 05:06.10 | jleclanche | Fisker: http://satwcomic.com/hold-your-tongue |
| 05:08.34 | jleclanche | Kalroth: also, "In Denmark it's a tradition to jump from a chair (or anything really) right before midnight so that you set off in the old year and land on the ground in the new year for good luck." |
| 05:08.43 | jleclanche | why does the "or anything really" bother me? |
| 05:16.54 | Amarande | jleclanche: because jumping off some things is not a very good idea, and midnight at New Year's tends to be a time where people are inebriated out of their better judgment? |
| 05:17.25 | jleclanche | that's a decent explanation to a rhetorical question |
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| 06:48.15 | karl_w_w | maybe it's a test |
| 06:48.29 | karl_w_w | if you can jump off a chair and land without falling over, they let you keep drinking |
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| 07:37.42 | jleclanche | theres no achievement in ashran to have EVERYTHING on you at once |
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| 07:38.08 | jleclanche | i have the artifact, curse, leaping legs, slime, boulders, shield and tome |
| 07:40.21 | jleclanche | soloing elites like they're trash |
| 07:40.22 | jleclanche | fun |
| 07:40.57 | jleclanche | also really rewarding. 4 filters and a repository in 1 hour |
| 07:41.06 | jleclanche | insane |
| 07:43.01 | jleclanche | i just solo'd volrath as a mage haha |
| 07:50.22 | karl_w_w | http://imgur.com/0vCgqYh |
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| 07:58.05 | TitanWrath | Does anyone have a good webpage showing how to animate a frame? Hoping to slide a frame from offscreen into view form the edge of the game world. |
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| 08:45.50 | Semlar | TitanWrath: you could use a translation animation or just animate it OnUpdate god dammit you just left |
| 08:46.11 | Semlar | fine |
| 08:46.23 | *** join/#wowuidev startxkdm (~Slayer@11.sub-70-197-194.myvzw.com) |
| 08:51.21 | startxkdm | Morning everyone. Anyone familiar with animations? Hoping to slide a frame into view from the edge of the screen... having issues getting this animation stuff figured out. |
| 08:52.50 | Semlar | deja vu |
| 08:54.08 | Semlar | either move the frame x pixels OnUpdate until it gets to where you want it or use a translation animation |
| 08:55.00 | startxkdm | Heya, someone else is still alive in here. xD |
| 08:55.32 | Semlar | it's like 5am |
| 08:55.52 | startxkdm | Yeah, 4am here. Love being a night owl. |
| 08:57.21 | jleclanche | its 10am |
| 08:57.31 | jleclanche | but then again, ugt |
| 08:57.38 | Semlar | anyway, if you want to animate OnUpdate then you determine the distance you want to move the frame and how long you want it to take, then move it a certain distance based on how much time has elapsed |
| 08:57.50 | nevcairiel | ugt only defines greetings, not time when people should be sleeping =p |
| 08:58.00 | jleclanche | IT DOES NOW! |
| 08:58.17 | startxkdm | Haha. |
| 08:58.22 | nevcairiel | s/W/T/ |
| 08:58.59 | jleclanche | nice try |
| 08:59.23 | startxkdm | @Selmar, yes I was kind of thinking that should be sufficient when you mentioned using OnUpdate. Setting an AnimationGroup and what not almost seems too overkill for a simple frame movement. |
| 08:59.48 | nevcairiel | i find using those animations is easier than messing around with an OnUpdate |
| 08:59.52 | Semlar | well, the animations are supposed to be easier |
| 09:00.09 | nevcairiel | create group, create animation, set time and distance, run! |
| 09:00.09 | Semlar | but depending on what you're doing it might just make it more difficult |
| 09:00.46 | Semlar | just sliding in from the side of the screen should be simple enough to use an animation for though |
| 09:01.14 | startxkdm | Very true. All I am hoping for is to move the frame from off-screen to a point. Frame is simple, and is a parent for other content, but nothing else special happens with is. |
| 09:01.41 | Semlar | animations don't actually move the original frame unless they changed something since the last time i did this |
| 09:01.58 | Semlar | so you have to re-anchor it at its destination when the animation finishes |
| 09:02.23 | Semlar | or possibly have it hidden at its destination and make the animation show it and slide in from offscreen |
| 09:03.20 | startxkdm | Initially I was just going to have it FadeIn, tat's pretty easy, but I thought being the frame shows OnMouseover.. a slide effect would be much nicer looking. |
| 09:03.53 | Semlar | is this supposed to just be a tab on the side of the screen? |
| 09:04.45 | startxkdm | Yes and no. It's a large UI element with a bunch of tools. |
| 09:05.10 | startxkdm | Think of it as a raid management tool, for the guild I am in. |
| 09:05.13 | Semlar | it's probably a better idea to have it hidden where you want it to be displayed and let the animation control everything |
| 09:05.24 | Semlar | rather than ever move the actual frame |
| 09:06.43 | startxkdm | Well, I will diddle around some more on Google and check out some of the things you mentioned. I just would have expected there to be more information somewhere on it. |
| 09:10.52 | startxkdm | Couldn't one use a simple looping timer? time = .1s +.1s: SetPos:("CENTER", X, X): if time = Z: goto function |
| 09:11.15 | startxkdm | Pardon my half-assed example. |
| 09:14.49 | Semlar | startxkdm: http://pastebin.com/hpz85ESf |
| 09:15.48 | startxkdm | Thank you so very much. Seeing what the code actually should look like and how it's laid out really helps one out a ton. |
| 09:16.01 | startxkdm | The joys of newbie programming. /rage |
| 09:16.20 | Semlar | if it's supposed to be flush with the edge of the screen you would just slide it the width of the frame |
| 09:16.30 | startxkdm | Yup yup |
| 09:16.36 | Semlar | otherwise you should calculate how far it needs to travel |
| 09:17.12 | startxkdm | Cat aggro ftw... |
| 09:18.35 | startxkdm | Lol! Nice icon choice. xD |
| 09:19.57 | startxkdm | Yes, that seems to be exactly what I was looking for. |
| 09:19.59 | Semlar | i'm not sure how scale and display resolution factor into the animation's distance |
| 09:20.35 | startxkdm | I'll just tinker around with Windowed Mode and try some different resolutions out. |
| 09:21.25 | Semlar | if it's supposed to be in the center of the screen or something, you may have to wait for an event to fire before calculating how far it will have to travel |
| 09:21.46 | Semlar | i don't think the real resolution is immediately available |
| 09:22.04 | startxkdm | Nah, it wont be in the center. Probably will just have it land on the edge of the screen, Right or Bottom edge. |
| 09:22.25 | Semlar | then it won't really matter since the distance will just be based on the frame size |
| 09:23.46 | Semlar | but i would have the frame hidden at first, then add an OnFinished script to the animation group that shows it when it's done playing |
| 09:23.53 | startxkdm | Hmm. It doesn't do anything the first time the addon is run, after hitting the run button it goes. I'm assuming he first time it's creating the frame? |
| 09:24.20 | Semlar | i don't know what you did with the code |
| 09:24.35 | Semlar | by itself, it will play automatically |
| 09:24.36 | startxkdm | Just copied and pasted. Changed the distance, that's all |
| 09:25.00 | startxkdm | Then again, I am running Hack to do my Snippet programming before i put the code in a working Lua file |
| 09:25.23 | Semlar | well if you're running it from hack it's not going to do anything until you tell it to run, right |
| 09:25.28 | startxkdm | Yeah |
| 09:26.15 | startxkdm | I was having to hit the run button twice though. Seems fine now though, think my cat stepped on the keyboard to troll me |
| 09:26.43 | Semlar | no, you shouldn't have to run it twice to make it do anything |
| 09:26.46 | Semlar | it just works |
| 09:27.06 | Semlar | in fact running it twice would just create two separate textures |
| 09:27.16 | startxkdm | Yeah, that's why i was curious. From what I saw... it should just go. It's is now anyways, just reloaded my client |
| 09:27.57 | Semlar | it plays the animation group when you call ag:Play() |
| 09:28.12 | Semlar | and since it's set to repeat it just keeps doing it |
| 09:31.35 | startxkdm | Okay, hopefully this is the last thing i need help with. Flooring a variable. "time = date("%I:%M %p")" outputs 04:27 AM, how would one get rid of the '0' if the hour is not double digits. |
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| 09:34.39 | Semlar | i guess you could do something like tonumber(date('%I')), i'm not sure that there's a date tag for time without a leading 0 |
| 09:35.18 | startxkdm | Just read up I could use GetGameTime(), but that will return the server time and not the local time. |
| 09:36.00 | Semlar | tonumber(date('%I')) .. date(':%M %p') |
| 09:37.00 | Semlar | or maybe (date('%I') + 0) .. date(':%M %p') |
| 09:37.04 | startxkdm | Perfect! |
| 09:37.14 | Semlar | either way |
| 09:37.45 | startxkdm | First one did the trick. :-D |
| 09:38.12 | startxkdm | So then ToNumber will remove any 0's in front of a number thats >0 |
| 09:38.26 | Semlar | well it's just converting it to a number |
| 09:38.41 | Semlar | instead of a string |
| 09:38.51 | startxkdm | Oh nice |
| 09:39.17 | Semlar | any leading zeroes would be removed because 04 is just 4 |
| 09:39.57 | startxkdm | Good thing to know. I'm sure that will come in hand one or two more times. |
| 09:40.53 | startxkdm | Just out of curiosity. When is it better to break your addon up into multiple Lua files? I'd assume when ever you need to keep things organized so you can find a cunk of code faster. |
| 09:42.21 | Semlar | organization is pretty much up to the programmer |
| 09:43.17 | Semlar | you can also call date('*t') to get a table you could pull the hour and minutes out of, but it probably isn't worth creating a table to do that |
| 09:43.18 | startxkdm | I wouldn't expect there would be a performance/load time saving.. if anything I would assume it would be worse and the game is working with multiple files. |
| 09:44.11 | Semlar | more files slows down loading but you'd need a lot of files for that to matter |
| 09:44.21 | Semlar | and they're only loaded once |
| 09:45.06 | startxkdm | Of course, up. Honestly this isn't going to be a massive addon like Auctioneer, or Altoholic. I've haed them bog my rig down once their databases get pretty large. |
| 09:45.16 | startxkdm | *Of course, yup. |
| 09:46.09 | Semlar | the only time i split my addon into multiple files is when i want to keep unrelated code separate to make it easier to manage |
| 09:46.34 | Semlar | like say you have a core system and various modules |
| 09:47.03 | Semlar | or you want to keep the ui elements separated from the scripts |
| 09:47.14 | startxkdm | That's the way I was looking at it. If anything you know frames.lua containes your frame code and your button.lua file contains your code for all the buttons. Graned.. I wouldn't separate that much. |
| 09:47.46 | startxkdm | Hrmm |
| 09:47.52 | Semlar | some people take modularization to an extreme and it makes it impossible to find anything if you don't know what you're looking for |
| 09:48.17 | startxkdm | I take when you use multiple Lua files, you can't set Local.. as that's file specific and not addon specific. |
| 09:49.03 | Semlar | there's a table that's local to your addon that's accessible to all of the files, but you can also create a global table and everything would be able to access that |
| 09:49.35 | startxkdm | Oh nice! |
| 09:49.41 | Semlar | if you put local addonName, addonTable = ... at the top of your file you can access the addon's table |
| 09:50.13 | startxkdm | Lol... my heads starting to spin. Now I am having too much fun, already have another addon idea. |
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| 10:11.00 | startxkdm | Isn't there a string to check if the account is a starter account? |
| 10:13.02 | Semlar | IsTrialAccount() probably |
| 10:14.15 | startxkdm | Yes. Of course, didn't think to search for "trial".. tried Limited and Starter. : / |
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| 11:42.19 | Industrial | sylvanaar: I just downloaded IDEA community and I don't see the Lua plugin :( |
| 11:43.07 | Torhal | Industrial: Preferences, search for Plugins |
| 11:43.21 | Torhal | Then Browse Repositories |
| 11:45.29 | Industrial | yeah, when I search for Lua or lua there it's not in the list :S |
| 11:45.57 | Industrial | I downloaded the latest version from the intellig plugin site and installed it in the intellij addons. It's now loaded |
| 11:46.10 | Industrial | but I can't associate file types to a Lua editor type |
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| 12:03.54 | Torhal | Industrial: Lua editor type? Wouldn't IntelliJ be the editor? |
| 12:04.06 | Torhal | So you have the plugin loaded now? |
| 12:29.23 | Industrial | Torhal: yes |
| 12:29.41 | Industrial | when I open a .lua file I get the Register New File Type Association window |
| 12:38.18 | Torhal | Industrial: Ah, that's not how it works. With IntelliJ you need to create a project (which would point to a directory). You open the project, which then has all of the files in the sidebar. |
| 12:38.42 | Torhal | On my system, if I just click on a .lua file, it opens Sublime Text. |
| 12:39.49 | Semlar | associates torhal with the .tor extension |
| 12:43.37 | Industrial | hm ok |
| 12:44.29 | mikma | industrial: Notepad++ |
| 12:45.19 | Industrial | mikma: vim |
| 12:52.40 | Semlar | neffi help, i opened 200 salvage crates and now i can't use my mailbox |
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| 13:45.28 | Industrial | Torhal: well I have project. that's still what it does :S I also can't make a new Lua type project or something |
| 13:53.06 | jleclanche | jesus |
| 13:53.12 | jleclanche | the plane was crashed on purpose.. |
| 13:54.46 | Kalroth | yeah, just read that |
| 13:55.12 | Kalroth | i hope there aren't that many suicidal pilots out there |
| 13:55.41 | jleclanche | there's plenty at NBC, but yes |
| 13:58.05 | karl_w_w | harharhar |
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| 14:01.33 | *** join/#wowuidev bluspacecow (~bluspacec@121-99-24-110.bng1.nct.orcon.net.nz) |
| 14:01.33 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v bluspacecow] by ChanServ |
| 14:19.00 | pompy | did they release the manifest yet? |
| 14:19.30 | bluspacecow | mainfest ? |
| 14:19.36 | bluspacecow | for fried chicken ? |
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| 14:23.10 | pompy | ~lart bluspacecow |
| 14:23.10 | purl | stuffs bluspacecow into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 14:23.16 | pompy | success |
| 14:23.24 | bluspacecow | has pizza in it ? |
| 14:23.33 | pompy | anchovies |
| 14:23.39 | bluspacecow | \o/ |
| 14:32.57 | Torhal | Industrial: Where are you trying to open the files from? Within IntelliJ itself, or from your OS? Because that matters. |
| 14:35.28 | bluspacecow | *nibbles on Torhal* |
| 14:36.02 | Torhal | defenestrates bluspacecow. |
| 14:36.31 | Industrial | Torhal: no in intellij |
| 14:36.43 | Industrial | TThe plugin seems loaded but not actually registered for file types etc |
| 14:36.46 | sylvanaar | Intellij issues guys? |
| 14:37.06 | Industrial | Yeah I cant find the lua plugin in the list of plugins atm :) |
| 14:37.10 | Torhal | Your setup is fucking weird, then. I've set up IntelliJ on at least three different Macs and two Windows machines and it Just Worked (TM) |
| 14:37.23 | bluspacecow | Torhal is nummy |
| 14:37.24 | sylvanaar | What version of intellij |
| 14:37.32 | Industrial | latest from the site |
| 14:37.35 | Industrial | for windows |
| 14:37.37 | sylvanaar | 14.1 |
| 14:37.41 | Torhal | disarticulates bluspacecow with a wombat. |
| 14:37.54 | bluspacecow | I feel oddly ventilated |
| 14:38.12 | sylvanaar | It should work in 14.1 |
| 14:38.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 14:39.17 | sylvanaar | But i will try it |
| 14:39.43 | Industrial | http://i.imgur.com/LGKAmUS.png I'll try a reinstall |
| 14:40.02 | sylvanaar | Sometimes they change the platform numbers which disabled the plugin |
| 14:40.32 | sylvanaar | Of course it would say that in the plugin manager |
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| 14:41.32 | sylvanaar | Im going to cry if i have to rebuild for 14.1 my build server is not working |
| 14:43.12 | sylvanaar | ah, its not compatible with 14.1 until I rebuild it |
| 14:43.48 | Industrial | Okay :D |
| 14:44.17 | Torhal | See? I told you your setup was fucking weird. |
| 14:44.18 | Torhal | >.> |
| 14:44.19 | Torhal | <.< |
| 14:50.02 | Industrial | haha |
| 14:50.47 | pompy | your setup is weird, Torhal |
| 14:55.22 | Torhal | Yeah, I know. It keeps saying someone named pompy is talking to me. |
| 14:57.06 | sylvanaar | So Torhal dont upgrade to 14.1 yet :D They changed the API a bit, gonna need a fix |
| 14:57.35 | Torhal | Good to know! |
| 14:57.45 | sylvanaar | They are always doing that. Refactoring their api, breaking my stuff :P |
| 14:59.05 | karl_w_w | so avengers age of ultron comes out a week earlier than US in Aus |
| 14:59.18 | karl_w_w | I can't not watch it when it comes out |
| 14:59.32 | karl_w_w | which means I'm gonna not get an episode of agents |
| 14:59.47 | karl_w_w | first world problems are so hard |
| 14:59.47 | Torhal | FREAKOUT TIME |
| 15:00.13 | nevcairiel | with the recent developments in agents, i'm really wondering where its going to go until the movie |
| 15:00.27 | Semlar | the who of what |
| 15:00.31 | nevcairiel | also, edward james olmos |
| 15:04.53 | bluspacecow | *freaks out with Torhal* |
| 15:05.09 | bluspacecow | *dances around naked throwing oranges and eggplant everywhere* |
| 15:10.06 | Torhal | No, bluspacecow - it was karl_w_w that was freaking out. |
| 15:10.14 | Torhal | I'm also quite sure nobody else is naked but you. |
| 15:10.15 | bluspacecow | oh ok |
| 15:10.34 | bluspacecow | i felt like having a little breeze through my privates |
| 15:10.45 | Torhal | They're called privates for a reason, bluspacecow. |
| 15:11.13 | bluspacecow | :P |
| 15:15.20 | pompy | ... |
| 15:24.33 | karl_w_w | eggs grow on plants? TIL |
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| 15:50.37 | bluspacecow | itâs a purple looking vegatable |
| 15:50.41 | bluspacecow | its really alien looking |
| 15:51.05 | karl_w_w | most vegetables are |
| 15:51.19 | bluspacecow | why do people put them in their fase ? |
| 15:51.22 | bluspacecow | it silly! |
| 15:51.51 | nevcairiel | eggplant is such an odd name |
| 15:51.58 | nevcairiel | we civilized people call it aubergine |
| 15:52.05 | karl_w_w | indeed |
| 15:52.13 | bluspacecow | pfft |
| 15:52.16 | bluspacecow | civilised ? |
| 15:52.19 | bluspacecow | ima kiwi |
| 15:52.28 | bluspacecow | *adjusts grass skirt* |
| 15:52.39 | karl_w_w | they call it eggplant because 1 of the varieties has a colour kind of similar to egg shell |
| 15:53.02 | bluspacecow | thereâs purple eggs ? |
| 15:53.21 | karl_w_w | no, there's off-white aubergine |
| 15:53.41 | nevcairiel | here, have a kiwi https://i.imgur.com/mQhFCLf.jpg |
| 15:53.56 | karl_w_w | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Three_Types_of_Eggplant.jpg |
| 15:55.02 | bluspacecow | so im a fruitcake ? True fax |
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| 16:31.50 | Amarande | dammit, how to know Azeroth is too deeply ingrained on your brain |
| 16:32.01 | Amarande | when you read "aubergine" and at first you think "isn't that a place in WoW?" |
| 16:32.18 | Amarande | ... and you haven't even played WoW in months at the time |
| 16:32.37 | Amarande | ... and the place you're confusing it with was destroyed two expansions ago |
| 16:34.03 | nevcairiel | if it was so ingrained in your brain, you would know that aubergine is a vegetable and auberdine is a former night elf settlement |
| 16:34.28 | Fisker | Shirik|Ghost my friend |
| 16:34.30 | Fisker | please come back |
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| 16:35.23 | Amarande | Fisker: he went the wrong way from Felwood and has to make his way all the way back round :) |
| 16:35.30 | Amarande | (yes, that actually happened to me once. *sigh*) |
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| 16:58.12 | Shirik | I have risen from the grave just for you, Fisker |
| 16:59.27 | Fisker | thanks |
| 16:59.55 | Fisker | How much windows specific developement you know? |
| 17:00.58 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.170) |
| 17:02.00 | Shirik | My windows-based development experience is limited to either embedded devices or the ancient world of MFC |
| 17:02.32 | Fisker | Yargh |
| 17:02.58 | Fisker | I was wondering what Microsoft's take was on manually modifying the policies registry entries (That group policies use) was |
| 17:03.31 | Thunder_Child | They don't care. |
| 17:03.46 | Thunder_Child | They may not support it, but they don't care. |
| 17:04.08 | Fisker | Well |
| 17:04.33 | Fisker | They have stuff like "Hey dumbasses, uses GetVersionInfoEx() for windows versioning instead of if osname = windows 9*" |
| 17:04.46 | Fisker | Perhaps they have the same for these things |
| 17:04.55 | Shirik | yeah they do have a huge book of recommendations |
| 17:05.00 | Shirik | but I don't think that's in there |
| 17:05.12 | Shirik | I have it at work I can take a peek inside when I get there |
| 17:05.25 | Fisker | Thanks broski |
| 17:05.27 | Fisker | :P |
| 17:05.42 | Amarande | Fisker: they did seem to nod to such poor development practises though |
| 17:05.51 | Amarande | it's thought to have been an unofficial influence on why we're jumping from 8 to 10 |
| 17:05.59 | Fisker | No, they never did |
| 17:06.03 | Amarande | (come to think of it I forget what the official reason was) |
| 17:06.05 | Shirik | well that's probably because they learned their lesson from UAC |
| 17:06.12 | Fisker | No they're working around poor development practices, not embracing it |
| 17:06.15 | Shirik | "stupid developers exist, so we have to work around them" |
| 17:06.32 | Fisker | well Vista and Me should just be discounted from Windows history Shirik |
| 17:06.47 | Dagmar | Frankly, I view things like "osname = windows 9*" as a sign of mental instability |
| 17:06.52 | Shirik | yeah but since ancient times Microsoft has been telling people "don't store your fucking settings in Program Files" |
| 17:07.01 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 17:07.02 | Shirik | but nobody listened so they created the virtual store |
| 17:07.27 | Shirik | nowadays people still don't listen, they just request admin rights |
| 17:07.27 | Amarande | Shirik: I thought the virtual store was more designed to handle legacy applications that came before the whole "protected Program Files folder" idea |
| 17:07.28 | Fisker | We have a 64-bit application that reads and wirtes to wow6432node |
| 17:07.31 | Fisker | I lol'd irl |
| 17:07.35 | Dagmar | Of course these are Windows people, so the idea of something approaching regexp functionality is the work of the debbil in their eyes |
| 17:07.35 | Amarande | especially, say, games |
| 17:07.37 | Shirik | Amarande: The IDEA existed forever |
| 17:07.37 | Fisker | writes* |
| 17:07.41 | Shirik | the ENFORCEMENT was new |
| 17:08.02 | Amarande | hell, even WoW of all things still uses the game installation folder to save settings and data |
| 17:08.05 | Shirik | just because something is possible on Windows does not mean Microsoft endorses it. There are a lot of things they say "don't do this" |
| 17:08.21 | Shirik | Amarande: See: <Shirik> nowadays people still don't listen, they just request admin rights |
| 17:08.34 | Shirik | (or just don't store programs in program files WHICH DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE) |
| 17:09.18 | Shirik | I make a tiny little virus that makes edits to your wow.exe because writing to it does not require admin rights. BOOM easy execution path. |
| 17:10.18 | Amarande | mind you part of it is probably to do with also Windows' file permission paradigm, too |
| 17:10.24 | pompy | i like where CurseClient is stored. |
| 17:10.27 | Amarande | and yes, I've grumbled about Windows' file permission paradigm before |
| 17:10.56 | Amarande | it is kind of a mess at times ... like when you hear horror stories of people having to use Ubuntu or create a specifically named user account on Windows JUST to be able to get stuff off their NTFS formatted external |
| 17:11.34 | Amarande | I'm really not quite sure what's wrong with Unix-style permissions, they would have been just fine for Windows, and Unix has protected its program files just fine for years with such :) |
| 17:11.51 | Amarande | (indeed, in a quite absolute way that doesn't even ALLOW FOR bad practises that infest Windows) |
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| 17:52.24 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: posix permissions are powerful but limited compared to windows permissions, posix acls make the situation a lot better but are lacking one feature of windows permissions i would like, inheritance |
| 17:53.39 | Neffi | Arrowmaster: inheritance how? |
| 17:53.51 | Neffi | (I don't know about Windows permissions) |
| 17:54.09 | Arrowmaster | in windows you can goto a directory and say 'this user now has this permission on this directory and everything under it' |
| 17:54.35 | Gnarfoz | setfacl -R |
| 17:54.35 | Neffi | change perms recursively? |
| 17:54.41 | Neffi | you can apply acls recursively |
| 17:54.43 | Gnarfoz | is utterly annoying and slow |
| 17:54.49 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 17:55.21 | Arrowmaster | and then you have to deal with making sure new files get that permission |
| 17:55.38 | Gnarfoz | and removing the correct permissions on everything you want is also nice |
| 17:55.42 | Neffi | that's what ACLs are for, Arrowmaster |
| 17:55.50 | Arrowmaster | it 'just works' apparently under windows |
| 17:55.50 | Neffi | also +s |
| 17:56.06 | Arrowmaster | that doesnt always work |
| 17:56.15 | Gnarfoz | we know what they're for, just saying inheritance is a great feature Windows permissions have |
| 17:56.27 | Neffi | the only thing I found lacking is that you cannot effectively +s user. that is, you cannot enforce that all files in a give directory belong to user FOO, but you can do so with group BAR |
| 17:56.28 | Arrowmaster | if i mv a file to a directory with acls and sticky bits it will not change permissions |
| 17:57.24 | Arrowmaster | in my experience only newly created files and files moved from a gui file manager got new sticky bit permissions, files moved on the cmdline using mv did not |
| 17:58.17 | Neffi | well that's true. hmm. I wonder if that can be fixed |
| 17:58.18 | Torhal | symlinks Neffi to Semlar's Dropbox. |
| 17:58.48 | Semlar | well this is awkward |
| 17:58.56 | Neffi | WHO IS SHE? |
| 17:59.02 | Arrowmaster | it can be fixed i think if you know and throw the proper option flags at mv when you call it |
| 17:59.02 | Neffi | all these pictures! |
| 17:59.59 | Neffi | having to modifying your mv calls is not elegant |
| 18:00.16 | Arrowmaster | right |
| 18:00.23 | Neffi | but I would venture to bet there's a reason it works the way it does, even if I do not know it |
| 18:00.37 | Arrowmaster | and aliasing mv to include those flags on every call is bad too |
| 18:00.47 | Neffi | yes |
| 18:00.50 | Amarande | yeah, I suppose in some environments you do have inconvenient things like 'efficient corporate management' and 'mandatory access controls' to deal with |
| 18:01.12 | Neffi | I don't think alias should be used to change the semantics of a command |
| 18:01.19 | Neffi | that's asking for subtle issues |
| 18:01.45 | Amarande | ... though efficient corporate management is probably really only a good thing if you're the boss or shareholder anyway :P LOL |
| 18:02.31 | Amarande | for the rest of us such initiatives usually mean the company's taking away a few more chairs and stopping the music again, heh |
| 18:03.11 | Amarande | posix is nice because it's simple and hard for things to go wrong unless you really do something obviously bad :) |
| 18:03.39 | Amarande | whereas, like I said, the corporate oriented system of Windows leads to fun stuff like people being told by Windows that they don't have permission to copy files back over from their own external drive :| |
| 18:03.50 | Arrowmaster | in windows you basically set the permissions on a directory and it can effect every subdir and file unless those specifically add a permission for the same user/group overwriting it, in posix world everything must me implicitly set on that dir/file |
| 18:04.25 | Amarande | because yes, it's designed for businesses, not individual geeks :( |
| 18:04.40 | Arrowmaster | i think theres another way of doing acl's that im not familiar with, something with NFS maybe |
| 18:05.00 | Neffi | funny anecdote, when I was setting up this server and was pretty damned rusty from not using *nix in a while, I was solving the mv permission issue by doing cat originalfile > newfile |
| 18:05.07 | Neffi | ;) |
| 18:05.35 | Arrowmaster | that more of doing cp than mv |
| 18:05.41 | Neffi | yes |
| 18:05.54 | Arrowmaster | cp should create a new file and have the new permissions i thought |
| 18:06.01 | Neffi | it was quicker to type that and delete than figure out how to do it properly |
| 18:06.13 | Neffi | maybe, I'm not actually sure |
| 18:06.37 | Arrowmaster | sigh, on hold for 30 minutes now |
| 18:07.45 | zenzelezz | for what? |
| 18:08.32 | Arrowmaster | medicaid |
| 18:08.57 | Arrowmaster | applied in december and still not processed through |
| 18:09.11 | Amarande | Mind you it seems pretty clear that POSIX and Windows also developed under two completely different philosophies |
| 18:09.42 | Arrowmaster | yes |
| 18:09.54 | Amarande | the primary concern in Unix seems to have always been mainly to prevent data from being written or altered without permission, without much emphasis on restricting read (hence why the traditional access modes have almost always been 644/755) |
| 18:10.11 | Amarande | Windows makes a lot more concern with the ability to maintain data altogether secretly |
| 18:10.12 | Arrowmaster | you can restrict reads |
| 18:10.31 | Amarande | yes, but traditionally, "owner read/write, group and world read-only" has tended to be the norm |
| 18:10.40 | Arrowmaster | setting a directory to 751 is fun |
| 18:10.41 | Amarande | "look but don't touch" |
| 18:11.02 | pompy | http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/18388260/100-bonus-gold-find-and-exp-happy-birthday-reaper-of-souls-3-22-2015 damn just seeing this now |
| 18:11.40 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: ugh ... every year I start to wonder more and more about the ACA |
| 18:11.51 | Amarande | especially such things like "exactly who was it supposed to make things 'affordable' for anyway?" |
| 18:12.18 | Amarande | it's not like bronze exchange plans that most working class folks will get if anything are exactly getting you affordable care |
| 18:12.28 | Amarande | if you could afford 6000 bucks' deductible a year you'd be getting something better than bronze :P |
| 18:12.32 | Arrowmaster | i got a letter today, postmarked yesterday, saying they need income and employment verification again due today |
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| 18:12.56 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: hah, have they even been keeping track of the gutting of the USPS? |
| 18:13.01 | Arrowmaster | Amarande: its actually most likely your state fucking with that, people in states that are embracing ACA have really good plans |
| 18:13.18 | Amarande | actually, Connecticut does have its own exchange and the plans are still garbage |
| 18:13.35 | Arrowmaster | the bronze ones are all trash |
| 18:13.54 | Amarande | Plus states with higher than average working class wages, like CT, tend to screw you over in a particularly insidious way :| |
| 18:13.59 | Arrowmaster | the silver ones didnt seem to cover my medication which is listed as 'exotic' |
| 18:14.30 | Amarande | I pretty much have the choice between taking a gamble that I should call Gamblers Anonymous if I even thought of making it, paying $3000 a year out of pocket for insurance, or just paying the tax penalty (guess which I picked, heh) |
| 18:15.34 | Gnarfoz | pompy: set your time dilation bubble to a less extreme setting! :D |
| 18:16.17 | Amarande | the big problem is them making it so if you're determined eligible for Medicaid you don't get to get a subsidy |
| 18:16.43 | Amarande | which makes the system's insistence that you be able to accurately and bindingly predict your income for the upcoming year in advance a real PITA if you're close to the threshold |
| 18:16.56 | Amarande | which you will be if you're in a state like CT where the minimum wage is decent and you've been at your job for a while :| |
| 18:17.05 | Arrowmaster | yeah im trying to apply for medicaid since december, still not covered and i had to goto the ER this month |
| 18:19.49 | Arrowmaster | i used to think this stuff was relatively simple and straight forward, nope its fucked up at the management level |
| 18:20.07 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: and it's made filing taxes way more expensive too |
| 18:20.17 | Arrowmaster | how? |
| 18:20.24 | Amarande | I just did my taxes last night ... H&R Block Basic for federal and one state went up from about $55 to about $75, that's like 40% |
| 18:20.33 | Amarande | I'm sure the extra workload for implementing ACA requirements is part of the reason |
| 18:20.45 | Arrowmaster | could have used turbotax free |
| 18:21.00 | Arrowmaster | i did all my taxes free |
| 18:21.05 | Amarande | Arrowmaster: turbotax is apparently having lots of security problems lately, or I'd have considered it |
| 18:22.16 | Arrowmaster | havent heard any of that |
| 18:27.41 | pompy | ~lart Gnarfoz |
| 18:27.41 | purl | decapitates Gnarfoz conan the destroyer style |
| 18:38.52 | Thunder_Child | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:45.48 | Fisker | Heh Thunder_Child |
| 18:46.34 | Fisker | Never order too many sims |
| 18:50.15 | Thunder_Child | Fisker: I have 10 infront of me. |
| 18:50.17 | Thunder_Child | in front* |
| 18:53.06 | Simca | how the heck does this work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H02mBEFCq0&t=18 |
| 18:55.55 | Fisker | Does what work? |
| 18:55.59 | Torhal | Simca: Mofuggin magic. |
| 18:56.16 | Simca | Fisker: avoiding the train hits by spinning in a circle |
| 18:56.32 | Fisker | Oh |
| 18:57.03 | Simca | if (keyboardTurning) then giveBuff("ImmuneToTrains") end |
| 18:57.08 | Simca | ? |
| 18:57.51 | jleclanche | Simca: of course not, don't be stupid. |
| 18:57.57 | jleclanche | Simca: In the wow engine, when you spin clockwise, it shuffles the rotation of the planet which magnetises the rails of the train, granting you superimmunity momentarily. |
| 18:58.02 | jleclanche | it's all documented on the wiki |
| 18:58.04 | jleclanche | noob. |
| 18:58.09 | Simca | oh ok |
| 19:00.43 | Simca | it's relatively pointless (only benefit being an extra channeled spell for certain specs, since you couldn't cast normally unless you had godtier timing and a very specific amount of spell haste) |
| 19:01.43 | Torhal | jleclanche: Now you're being ridiculous. Everyone knows, from the Superman movies, that depending on which way you alter the planet's rotation you will affect time. |
| 19:02.01 | jleclanche | the superman movies were filmed in the wc3 engine |
| 19:02.04 | jleclanche | its physics are deprecated |
| 19:02.06 | Torhal | :O |
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| 19:04.36 | jleclanche | ps: "Deprecated physics" making sense is why i love gaming dev |
| 19:09.22 | zenzelezz | I like when they use "depreciated" |
| 19:19.43 | Amarande | Simca: heh, sounds like the kind of timing you're expected to have as a black mage in FFXIV's endgame :) |
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| 20:21.46 | foxlit | why does wow still not have a "reconnect using battle.net client" button? |
| 20:23.12 | fewyn | because |
| 20:26.12 | Amarande | foxlit: why would you want to exit all the way out to the bnet client to reconnect, though? (well, I suppose in some addon situations you have to restart wow anyway) |
| 20:27.10 | Amarande | that's one thing I love about MMO launchers, you login at the launcher and then don't have to recredential |
| 20:27.17 | Amarande | though I'm guessing WoW is still incomplete with that :( |
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| 20:46.41 | Simca | I was going to type 'europa universalis 4 achievements' into google and was amused that one of the top google autocorrect results was misspelled: http://i.imgur.com/CTB2TTn.png |
| 20:48.26 | Simca | <Amarande> foxlit: why would you want to exit all the way out to the bnet client to reconnect, though? |
| 20:48.29 | Simca | you wouldn't have to |
| 20:48.46 | Simca | if the battle.net client is still running in the background, it could send a new authentication token to the game |
| 20:48.54 | Simca | and reconnect you instantly |
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| 20:50.00 | Simca | foxlit: that would require the battle.net app team devs and the WoW team devs to actually interact, and that is an incredibly rare occurrence |
| 20:50.14 | Amarande | Simca: are you sure Hisotyr isn't actually a location in Europa Universalis 4? :) |
| 20:50.32 | Simca | it could b3e |
| 20:50.34 | Simca | be* |
| 20:50.48 | Amarande | it's actually happened at times in games like that ... like the dungeon in Ultima IV through IX called "Destard" instead of "Dastard" |
| 20:50.56 | Amarande | (The C64 version at least called it Dasterd but that's not really right either ... heh) |
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| 21:59.20 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:01.51 | karl_w_w | you have someone working there foxlit? |
| 22:02.31 | foxlit | that holds for both tailoring and tannery. |
| 22:02.45 | foxlit | but not, say, mine |
| 22:03.03 | karl_w_w | that dark border is barely noticable |
| 22:03.07 | mikma | foxlit: you have mats for them? |
| 22:03.41 | foxlit | trading post and tailoring, but not tannery |
| 22:04.44 | karl_w_w | is this a test to see if its intuitive or do you just not know? :P |
| 22:08.13 | foxlit | I don't know. |
| 22:09.03 | foxlit | I mean, the code is right there (GarrisonLandingPageReport_GetShipments), but I haven't checked api returns or which texture is which. |
| 22:19.43 | karl_w_w | maybe it's just a bug |
| 22:20.16 | karl_w_w | I'm assuming they're all level 3 |
| 22:40.05 | foxlit | no, everything is level 2 |
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| 23:03.31 | kullervo | got Nok to 90% solo. Maybe in the next tier. |
| 23:03.45 | kullervo | meanwhile, ranged classes have been soloing it for ages. |
| 23:08.03 | Amarande | kullervo: alas, that's not surprising |
| 23:08.25 | Amarande | I actually cannot think of a single MMO that favours melee DPS classes in PvE except for FFXIV |
| 23:08.35 | Amarande | and that's more because that game hates mages' guts than that it really loves melee that much :) |
| 23:09.32 | Amarande | (arguably LOTRO too to a degree, but that's only because boss low HP mechanics essentially forced you to have a burglar for reliable conjunctions and more recent raids haven't really focused so much on that) |
| 23:21.49 | Wobin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:39.40 | Thunder_Child | Wobin: Why would you want that? |
| 23:40.05 | Wobin | [07:27:10] <Amarande> that's one thing I love about MMO launchers, you login at the launcher and then don't have to recredential |
| 23:40.34 | Amarande | T_C: because if you get DC'd, you don't have to retype your password and (for games with one) authenticator every time |
| 23:40.40 | Amarande | unless you get thrown all the way out to the launcher |
| 23:40.42 | Thunder_Child | Which is fine if they patch before you have to log in, not all do however. |
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| 23:41.08 | Amarande | especially convenient if your authenticators are on a tablet that you don't usually drag out much except to authenticate :) |
| 23:41.30 | Amarande | (and they should be on a tablet, not a phone ... I have AT&T so it's not as big a deal, but for folks on say Verizon it can be a very painful thing) |
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