| 00:01.55 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 00:55.35 | *** join/#wowuidev lnr (~lnr@aim.engr.arizona.edu) |
| 01:23.09 | fewyn | level 100 heirlooms are the boss |
| 01:23.16 | fewyn | i don't even have to go to nagrand anymore |
| 01:40.33 | *** join/#wowuidev InfamousX (~InfamousX@96-19-173-38.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:42.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:42.01 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
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| 01:51.03 | InfamousX | @seen BasedNoface |
| 01:51.12 | InfamousX | woops wrong chat my bad |
| 01:51.15 | kullervo | pretty sure it's !seen |
| 01:51.31 | kullervo | we had that at one point |
| 01:55.48 | Thunder_Child | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:56.06 | Thunder_Child | Well, for purl it is. |
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| 02:19.52 | Stanzilla | jleclanche: why did the guy continuing mediacrush (I take it this is the case for imgcrush) not take over the domain, too? |
| 02:48.04 | *** join/#wowuidev martind1 (martind@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-bkoeywtlbnjokdfm) |
| 03:15.14 | *** join/#wowuidev [TOM_RUS] (something@178.35.150.18) |
| 03:22.09 | *** join/#wowuidev justin_pdx (~justinmye@c-24-22-123-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 03:40.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Ayrshire (~bob913@fnord.miningforcows.com) |
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| 04:09.17 | mckenziemc | lua_bot used to handle ! commands |
| 04:09.43 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:12.27 | *** join/#wowuidev [TOM_RUS] (something@178.35.150.18) |
| 04:12.30 | mckenziemc | i think |
| 04:12.45 | mckenziemc | or maybe that was batbot |
| 04:13.31 | *** join/#wowuidev amm4108 (~Alex@2604:6000:100e:a098:159e:c817:53b5:157b) |
| 04:19.41 | Semlar | i thought they made short cooldowns reset after an encounter |
| 04:19.56 | Semlar | is it 3 minutes or 5 minutes |
| 04:32.05 | Neffi_ | mckenziemc: batbot was !, lua_bot is > |
| 04:32.09 | Neffi_ | and yalb is % |
| 04:32.21 | Neffi_ | %5.1 = 'hello' |
| 04:32.21 | yalb | Neffi_: hello |
| 04:33.02 | Mr_Rabies | <sylvanaar> Mr_Rabies: Alt-invite is back |
| 04:33.15 | Mr_Rabies | sylvanaar: you da bes mang |
| 04:35.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~Xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 04:53.31 | mckenziemc | oh, repo (in the curse channels) is the one that did @, i think |
| 05:01.53 | karl_w_w | lol wtf is this http://youtu.be/-qYziluDD5I?t=6m56s |
| 05:04.19 | Mr_Rabies | the best cgi that 1994 can provide on the sega genesis |
| 05:04.37 | Mr_Rabies | oh, 1996 |
| 05:04.51 | Mr_Rabies | that game is objectively terrible in almost every way |
| 05:06.52 | karl_w_w | well, when it starts with somebody screaming SEGA! in a panicked voice, it's no surprise |
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| 06:22.32 | karl_w_w | the problem with switching away from uTorrent is that nothing else has all its features |
| 06:36.03 | Mr_Rabies | i just use older utorrent personally |
| 06:36.14 | Mr_Rabies | 3.3.1 with all the offer stuff turned off |
| 06:38.50 | Mr_Rabies | though qbittorrent seems pretty similar so far, i'm playing around with it and considering a switch |
| 06:57.29 | karl_w_w | yeah, qbittorrent is what I'm trying to use now |
| 06:58.37 | Arrowmaster | what features? |
| 06:59.29 | Simca | that utorrent scare about bitcoin mining was fake, yeah? |
| 07:00.12 | Arrowmaster | where did you hear that? |
| 07:02.15 | Simca | it's just people being dumb with installation prompts |
| 07:02.17 | Simca | http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2y4x3w/utorrent_silently_installing_bundled_bitcoin/cp6l8li |
| 07:02.20 | nebula169 | fake? it was silently installing epicscale |
| 07:02.30 | nebula169 | ah |
| 07:03.07 | Arrowmaster | it still installed it, so not fake |
| 07:03.42 | znf | karl_w_w, uTorrent 2.2.1 :P |
| 07:03.44 | znf | be hardcore! |
| 07:04.02 | Simca | not even hardcore, just use be a private tracker user |
| 07:04.19 | Simca | private trackers typically only allow very 'proven' (read: old) clients |
| 07:04.58 | Arrowmaster | never had any not accept a brand new version of an opensource client |
| 07:05.17 | znf | You must not remember when deluge became somewhat popular, then :P |
| 07:05.27 | znf | I couldn't use it on the majority of trackers |
| 07:05.37 | znf | Had to ask admins to allow it |
| 07:05.42 | Arrowmaster | ive been using it a long time, i had one tracker i couldnt use it on for about 2 weeks |
| 07:06.13 | znf | I'm talking about 0.9.x days :D |
| 07:06.14 | Arrowmaster | but i dont use many private trackers because i find most of them to be stupid |
| 07:06.38 | Simca | clearly not, rejecting new client versions is pretty standard practice |
| 07:06.40 | znf | or, rather, 0.5.x days |
| 07:07.32 | Arrowmaster | i mean silly ratio requirements and no ways to help maintain ratio other than paying, buying a seedbox, or letting every torrent you download seed for 3 months after you download it |
| 07:08.04 | znf | Arrowmaster, you must not have upstream bandwidth |
| 07:08.12 | znf | Welcome back, Znuff [Logout] Ratio: 1.813 UL: 2.8 TB DL: 1.55 TB Buffer: 1.26 TB DL Slots: Unlimited |
| 07:08.27 | Arrowmaster | i had .5mbit back when seedboxes took off |
| 07:08.54 | Simca | my max upload speed is 300 kbps |
| 07:09.23 | znf | but, meh, I was an uploader for a local tracker, had around ~70TB when we shut down |
| 07:09.25 | Simca | i devote 250 of it to torrents and my ratio is 9.61 atm (4.7 TB up, 501 GB down) |
| 07:09.36 | Simca | so speed really isn't an issue |
| 07:09.46 | Arrowmaster | Credits: 74,407 Up: 1.431 TB Slots: 0 Down: 302.35 GB Required: 0.50 Ratio: 4.84 |
| 07:09.56 | Arrowmaster | on a tracker with lots of freeleach |
| 07:10.03 | znf | that's TD? |
| 07:10.31 | znf | oh, it's not |
| 07:10.41 | znf | Ratio: 4.418 UP: 8.991 TB DL: 2.035 TB Active Torrents: 0 0 Bonus: 45,667.5 |
| 07:10.55 | znf | I haven't used this one in ages, I just log on to it when they send me an e-mail reminder |
| 07:11.09 | Arrowmaster | i was over 14 ratio on that tracker at one point |
| 07:12.14 | Simca | this is a pretty typical accepted clients list: http://i.imgur.com/QMNG4pR.png |
| 07:12.23 | Arrowmaster | i was happy and lucky to stay above 2 on a tracker i used to use a lot that was zero sum, everything was counted and there was no ways to get your stats changed |
| 07:12.25 | znf | The only tracker where I couldn't ever maintain a decent ratio was SceneAccess |
| 07:12.30 | znf | Because damn, fuck those seedboxes |
| 07:13.24 | znf | 3 seconds after release, there were 10 seedboxes with 100% seeding already, it was ridiculous |
| 07:14.03 | Arrowmaster | seedboxes did a lot of harm to communities that didnt adjust to realize that leaching isnt so bad anymore |
| 07:14.38 | znf | well, torrent communities that were built "back in the old days" were slow to adjust |
| 07:15.03 | Simca | virtually all reasonable trackers count time spent seeding and consider that the same now as actually seeding |
| 07:15.07 | Simca | at a specific rate |
| 07:15.15 | karl_w_w | it wasn't silently installing it |
| 07:15.16 | znf | we were the 2nd romanian tracker (by age) back then, and we had very strict rules |
| 07:15.28 | znf | it took us a few years of actually implementing stuff like free-leech |
| 07:15.28 | Arrowmaster | i just stopped caring and keeping track of private trackers i only have accounts on two for very select content right now i think |
| 07:15.38 | karl_w_w | nobody has evidence it was silently installed |
| 07:15.56 | Simca | figures |
| 07:15.58 | karl_w_w | just news feeding off unsubstantiated forum posts |
| 07:16.01 | znf | when we reached over 10 years old, we just decided to shut down because we felt we were too old for that crap and nobody in the staff had any more desire to work on it :P |
| 07:16.30 | znf | It just felt "right" to keep it old way, though |
| 07:16.47 | Arrowmaster | karl_w_w: shitlord company includes shitty software bundled in their shitty bittorent client, guess what nobody really cares because they deserve all the shit they are getting |
| 07:16.48 | znf | It was fun while we lasted, made a lot of friends ^^ |
| 07:17.38 | Simca | i'll probably use 2.2.1 for another 5 years |
| 07:17.56 | Arrowmaster | i dont even know the names of any of the bigname private trackers people are using now, i still get everything i want fine from irc or public trackers |
| 07:18.56 | karl_w_w | and features missing from qB include seperate pause and stop functions, and the option of whether you want new torrents to go in a subfolder or not |
| 07:19.14 | znf | I use one of our local trackers for tv-content (when I download full series), but I mostly just "stream" with xbmctorrent lately |
| 07:19.15 | Arrowmaster | whats missing from deluge? |
| 07:19.17 | znf | I'm too lazy for this crap :P |
| 07:19.37 | karl_w_w | well, stability was missing from deluge last time I used it |
| 07:19.50 | Arrowmaster | rock solid for me (on linux) |
| 07:20.10 | Arrowmaster | with some 500 torrents loaded (i need to clean it out) |
| 07:20.47 | znf | Oh, right. That's another thing that deluge blows badly |
| 07:20.56 | znf | When you have a lot of torrents in the list, it's performance is horrible |
| 07:20.56 | karl_w_w | iirc it didn't have scheduling either |
| 07:21.00 | karl_w_w | qB doesn't |
| 07:21.22 | znf | I once had 3000 torrents in it. I couldn't freakin' log on the webinterface. It kept timing out. |
| 07:21.29 | fewyn | i use deluge |
| 07:21.41 | karl_w_w | well it does, but it's very basic |
| 07:21.43 | Arrowmaster | theres a scheduler plugin for deluge |
| 07:21.43 | znf | Not even client-server mode (in the same LAN, keep in mind!) was working properly |
| 07:21.49 | fewyn | its nice combined with sonarr |
| 07:22.02 | znf | I just use flexget |
| 07:22.03 | znf | ^^ |
| 07:24.21 | Arrowmaster | i miss when i had free usenet access |
| 07:25.16 | znf | I could never figure out why people used that |
| 07:25.38 | znf | But we had fast internet when torrents came around, so I guess we never seen the appeal of it |
| 07:26.10 | Arrowmaster | brand new torrent comes out, it used to take a while for the swarm to pickup and good speed |
| 07:26.39 | znf | never been an issue for us |
| 07:26.40 | Arrowmaster | jump on my isps usenet server and start downloading the latest tv show at my lines cap |
| 07:26.49 | Simca | that's why i like big private trackers |
| 07:26.54 | Arrowmaster | it was for me back when bittorrent first came out |
| 07:27.03 | znf | We always had symetrical bandwidth on most of our ISPs |
| 07:27.14 | Arrowmaster | yeah US isnt like that |
| 07:27.58 | Simca | though, it is sad that shades of grey has held a top 10 torrents spot on this private tracker for like 2 weeks. still has 8k peers |
| 07:28.50 | Arrowmaster | isnt there like 3+ versions of that floating around and they are all hardsubbed cams |
| 07:29.12 | znf | Why is it sad? |
| 07:29.15 | znf | It's a popular movie... |
| 07:29.32 | znf | heck, the girls dragged me to see it |
| 07:29.51 | Arrowmaster | its not a movie you are watching for the plot, fucking wait for a good release instead of watching the equivalent of your dads vhs porn stash |
| 07:29.56 | Simca | Arrowmaster: yes, it's a hardsubbed cam |
| 07:30.17 | znf | we actually had a policy of not uploading CAMs :D |
| 07:30.24 | znf | TC or better! |
| 07:30.38 | Arrowmaster | i saw it opening night, we rented out a 250 seat theater and had a private showing |
| 07:30.51 | Simca | really |
| 07:31.08 | Arrowmaster | only thing that made it watchable was the crowd heckling |
| 07:31.25 | Simca | haha |
| 07:32.28 | znf | It was "meh". I'm not going to say it's bad. It's just boring as fuck... but I don't get people who are cunts while watching it. If you don't like it, step the fuck out :-/ |
| 07:33.04 | Arrowmaster | thats why we had the private showing, so we could heckle |
| 07:33.47 | karl_w_w | http://i.imgur.com/mLNLP3E.jpg is the approved client list for the only private tracker I use |
| 07:34.00 | znf | When I watched it, so many people started checking facebook and talking on their phone, crap like that |
| 07:34.46 | Arrowmaster | oh fuck them |
| 07:35.05 | Simca | i don't understand the point. it's virtually pornographic and yet you'd have to watch it in a group, it's got to be very awkward in theatre |
| 07:35.18 | Arrowmaster | ..... |
| 07:35.22 | znf | I don't see how that is pornographic |
| 07:35.32 | znf | It's a mild adult movie |
| 07:35.47 | znf | An episode of GoT has more boobs than that. |
| 07:36.12 | Arrowmaster | i have a very special group of friends |
| 07:36.50 | Simca | i haven't actually seen the movie so i can't comment on its 'lewdness' but my understanding is that the main characters' relationship was based mostly on sex. |
| 07:36.50 | Arrowmaster | theres 200+ people there and the first topless scene there were screams of "BOOBIES" from around the room |
| 07:37.11 | Arrowmaster | we have no shame |
| 07:37.20 | znf | Simca, there's probably around ~10 scenes where we see her boobies |
| 07:37.31 | znf | And then maybe like 2 or 3 where we see her pubic hair |
| 07:37.37 | znf | That's not pornographic |
| 07:37.54 | Arrowmaster | its toned down on the creepy stalker ness of the book |
| 07:38.14 | Simca | 10?! |
| 07:38.15 | Arrowmaster | and the "hardcore domination scenes" were laughable |
| 07:38.25 | Simca | retrieves a fainting couch. |
| 07:38.36 | znf | maybe 10 |
| 07:38.39 | znf | I can't remmeber :P |
| 07:38.42 | znf | I think it's less |
| 07:38.48 | Arrowmaster | sounds about right |
| 07:38.55 | znf | but, heck, the best part about the movie is the soundtrack |
| 07:39.15 | znf | I'm not much into commercial music (the stuff you'd listen on radio), but it was good |
| 07:39.30 | Simca | yeah, i saw 2 of its tracks were top 10 on spotify again this week |
| 07:39.45 | znf | And it was fitting to the movie, good match |
| 07:39.46 | Arrowmaster | i wouldnt say it was award winning soundtrack but it was good |
| 07:40.15 | znf | for example, I'm not really a fan of Beyonce, but that remix of "Crazy in Love" it's damn good |
| 07:40.42 | *** join/#wowuidev VIad (~Vlad@88.95.100.238) |
| 07:40.42 | Arrowmaster | people were talking about the music videos before the movie came out |
| 07:41.30 | sb | that movie was bad :| |
| 07:41.59 | znf | boring was more fitting |
| 07:42.01 | sb | i went to the cinema *sigh* it was awful... worst audience ever |
| 07:42.02 | znf | and the end was... wat? |
| 07:42.16 | sb | 1mio giggling girls |
| 07:42.25 | sb | people talking all the time |
| 07:42.43 | Arrowmaster | this is why i had the best viewing experience, random public allowed |
| 07:42.58 | Arrowmaster | no random public allowed |
| 07:43.53 | Arrowmaster | MST3K style |
| 07:45.07 | karl_w_w | I don't quite understand how it got so big |
| 07:45.22 | Arrowmaster | undersexed housewives |
| 07:45.33 | karl_w_w | it's not like it's anything new though |
| 07:45.38 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (Fox@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:d316) |
| 07:45.46 | karl_w_w | that sort of fan fiction has been around for decades |
| 07:45.59 | Simca | in corners of the internet |
| 07:46.09 | Arrowmaster | housewives like new things, if its been out for a while they arent interested |
| 07:46.28 | Arrowmaster | it has to be a NEW book to become popular with them |
| 07:46.54 | Arrowmaster | they have to be the ones to proclaim how good it is too all their friends and get them to all read it |
| 07:48.42 | znf | also young women in their 20s :P |
| 07:49.02 | Mr_Rabies | speaking of things that'd be awkward to watch in mixed company, the latest two episodes of JoJo got way too much nude babby polnareff :< |
| 07:49.04 | Arrowmaster | wannabe housewives |
| 07:49.29 | Arrowmaster | i still havent gotten myself throught s1 of jojo |
| 07:49.33 | Arrowmaster | through |
| 07:49.40 | Mr_Rabies | i burned through S1 at like, hyper speed |
| 07:50.01 | Mr_Rabies | it's probably my favorite show of the millenium so far :v |
| 07:50.21 | Arrowmaster | i got upto the sand knights lot episode and either keep stopping it right after i start it or get interrupted |
| 07:51.14 | Mr_Rabies | sand knights lot, hmm, can't recall |
| 07:51.17 | Arrowmaster | there are so many other shows i would say are better from what ive seen so far, but ive not finished it |
| 07:51.22 | Arrowmaster | maybe episode 8 |
| 07:51.24 | Mr_Rabies | what part? phantom blood or battle tendency? |
| 07:51.25 | Mr_Rabies | ahhh |
| 07:51.35 | Mr_Rabies | you're almost done with part one |
| 07:51.46 | Mr_Rabies | part 1 is very fast and basically bram stoker's dracula on steroids |
| 07:52.02 | Arrowmaster | ive also only gotten through episode 8 of TTGL and stopped there and only ep1 of KLK |
| 07:52.04 | Mr_Rabies | part 2 has a much deeper story and starts with episode 9 i think? maybe 10? |
| 07:52.14 | Arrowmaster | apparently im not into the popular anime anymore |
| 07:52.23 | Simca | JoJo? |
| 07:52.31 | Mr_Rabies | JoJo's Bizarre Adventure |
| 07:52.38 | Mr_Rabies | it's amazing |
| 07:53.08 | Mr_Rabies | i can't even describe how amazing it is, but it's one of those things where it never feels like it's wearing thin because it's so creative that literally anything can happen |
| 07:53.23 | Mr_Rabies | by the end of part 1, everything is on the table |
| 07:53.27 | Arrowmaster | oh sorry its episode 5 i havent finished yet |
| 07:53.44 | Mr_Rabies | part 2 timeskips to 1938 |
| 07:53.53 | Mr_Rabies | part 3 timeskips to 1988 |
| 07:54.13 | Mr_Rabies | (which was when the manga was running, so it caught up with realtime basically) |
| 07:55.03 | znf | no idea what you're talking about |
| 07:55.12 | Mr_Rabies | then some alternate universe stuff happened at some point, i dunno exactly, i'm just watching the show and not reading the comic ahead of time :v |
| 07:55.25 | Arrowmaster | i want my copy of baccano! returned to i can watch it again, or ill have to download it again |
| 07:56.19 | Mr_Rabies | i think JoJo's different enough that people that normally don't much care for anime would like it |
| 07:56.33 | Mr_Rabies | my friend's watching it with his ~60 year old dad |
| 07:58.36 | Simca | I think I'm like the most atypical anime viewer ever, since I don't actually particularly like anything about the format itself. overly large eyes, tendency towards fourth wall breaking humor, over-the-top character reactions, etc - I could lose all that and be happier for it. I like that the format is more accepting (and cost effective) for out-of-the-box ideas, so I watch purely for things like Death Note, Code Geass, Monster, |
| 07:58.36 | Simca | Steins;Gate, etc. |
| 07:58.40 | Arrowmaster | it just came off as shounen styling to me which i just dont seem to find interesting anymore |
| 07:58.59 | Arrowmaster | Simca: youve seen Baccano! right? |
| 07:59.10 | Simca | nope |
| 07:59.27 | Mr_Rabies | eh, the format itself is just a format, simca |
| 07:59.41 | Mr_Rabies | it's more of a descriptor of country of origin than anything else |
| 07:59.44 | Arrowmaster | add it to your list, be warned it gets a little confusing because its not told linearly |
| 08:00.26 | jleclanche | is there a way in a vim xml file to jump to the next tag at the level my cursor is at? |
| 08:00.38 | jleclanche | in an xml file in vim, that is |
| 08:00.46 | Mr_Rabies | overly large eyes were just a stylistic choice to show emotion more easily back when manga production was very basic and prone to printing issues |
| 08:01.33 | Mr_Rabies | JoJo is definitely shounen styled, but it established so many shounen tropes in the 80s that it still feels fresh despite plenty of stuff borring from it since |
| 08:01.39 | Mr_Rabies | borrowing* |
| 08:01.40 | Arrowmaster | jleclanche: find a script or plugin for it |
| 08:01.53 | jleclanche | that's what I'm doing right now |
| 08:01.57 | jleclanche | by proxy. |
| 08:02.41 | Mr_Rabies | here's a minor part 2 spoiler for JoJo that kind of establishes the type of mood the show as a whole has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB54VLXR9s4 |
| 08:03.08 | Arrowmaster | Simca: im serious, from those other animes you listed you need to see Baccano! |
| 08:03.44 | Simca | it does sound from this description like it is the type of plot-heavy show i'd be interested in |
| 08:04.33 | Arrowmaster | its dark and full of plot |
| 08:05.21 | Mr_Rabies | it's incredibly violent, though |
| 08:05.26 | Mr_Rabies | baccano! that is |
| 08:05.48 | Simca | i'm fine with that as long as it serves a purpose |
| 08:05.53 | Mr_Rabies | but so are death note, code geass, and monster (i think) |
| 08:06.01 | Simca | yeah |
| 08:06.05 | Mr_Rabies | JoJo is fairly violent too but mostly part 1 |
| 08:06.15 | Mr_Rabies | after the vampire stuff kinda fades out it's less violent |
| 08:06.29 | Arrowmaster | monster is like the darkest and most violent of that list |
| 08:06.32 | Mr_Rabies | it's more implied violence than actually being gory |
| 08:06.44 | Mr_Rabies | if you want a really plot heavy show simca |
| 08:06.56 | Mr_Rabies | check out Legend of the Galactic Heroes sometime |
| 08:07.31 | Mr_Rabies | code geass borrowed pretty heavily from it with the strategy stuff, but it's entirely devoid of all the terrible high school hijinks and fanservice junk that geass was plagued with |
| 08:07.48 | karl_w_w | oh great, another anime to add to my growing list of ones to watch |
| 08:08.01 | Mr_Rabies | JoJo's plot is really good, but it's not particularly mature |
| 08:08.08 | Simca | sounds good, Mr_Rabies |
| 08:08.24 | Mr_Rabies | it's light hearted and violent and incredibly creative, but it's not very mature, typically |
| 08:08.28 | Mr_Rabies | but LoGH |
| 08:08.34 | Mr_Rabies | is very reserved and mature |
| 08:08.42 | Mr_Rabies | probably one of the best space operas ever |
| 08:08.45 | Simca | i'd actually say Code Geass is my favorite but mainly because of the ending |
| 08:08.59 | Mr_Rabies | i didn't much like the bit of Geass I watched |
| 08:09.06 | Arrowmaster | code geass was addictive when it was airing |
| 08:09.29 | Arrowmaster | id be watching it while clearing BT trash every week because i just couldnt wait |
| 08:09.38 | Mr_Rabies | i don't have much patience for tons of fanservice unless it's used for comedy, and basically no patience for high school stuff |
| 08:09.58 | Arrowmaster | geass just knew how to do cliffhangers well |
| 08:10.04 | Mr_Rabies | pfffff |
| 08:10.17 | Mr_Rabies | JoJo cliffhangers get so bad i've actually screamed in agony :v |
| 08:10.28 | Mr_Rabies | YOU ENDED IT THERE, YOU BASTARDS? AAAAAAGH |
| 08:10.45 | Simca | i don't like fanservice or high school stuff either typically, and it was definitely the least interesting part of the show |
| 08:11.08 | Arrowmaster | i think we got into a fight in raid chat about geass cliffhanger once because i wasnt the only person that would watch it during trash |
| 08:11.19 | Mr_Rabies | plenty of the gundam stuff would probably fall into your interests, Simca |
| 08:11.27 | Mr_Rabies | geass also borrows pretty heavily from it :v |
| 08:12.15 | Mr_Rabies | the stuff from the original creator, Yoshiyuki Tomino, is all pretty story dense and goes into some deep material |
| 08:12.19 | Simca | not a massive mecha fan but I do admit mecha shows have held my interest because of the plot on more than one occasion (Eva is an obvious one that comes to mind) |
| 08:12.29 | Arrowmaster | i want to counter your gundam with macross but i think macross has more fanservice and slice of life stuff |
| 08:12.35 | Mr_Rabies | the good Gundam's not really about the mecha |
| 08:12.39 | Mr_Rabies | it's about the characters |
| 08:12.49 | Mr_Rabies | the mechs are just treated as machines to be used if there's a conflict |
| 08:12.51 | Arrowmaster | i need to watch macross 7 again |
| 08:13.01 | Arrowmaster | i have the sound tracks on my phone..... |
| 08:13.01 | Mr_Rabies | like a tank, basically |
| 08:14.29 | Mr_Rabies | the core themes in Gundam are: The Horrors of War, Trusting in youth to make the world a better place, Power + time = corruption, and lots and lots of tragedy :v |
| 08:15.05 | Mr_Rabies | also the evolution of mankind and lots of other stuff |
| 08:15.22 | Mr_Rabies | there's a ton of 2001: A Space Odyssey in Gundam, but not the "Evil Computer" main plot |
| 08:15.31 | Mr_Rabies | just about everything else in 2001, though |
| 08:15.49 | Simca | 2001 is pretty cool |
| 08:15.59 | Mr_Rabies | even this little guy: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/0/04/Rb-79.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120630062609 |
| 08:16.25 | Mr_Rabies | (that's basically the pod from 2001 with a beam rifle attached to it) |
| 08:16.56 | Mr_Rabies | https://rattsalad.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/photo03752.jpg |
| 08:17.22 | Mr_Rabies | i won't say gundam is hyper-realistic in any way but it does treat the machines in a fairly realistic way |
| 08:17.40 | Arrowmaster | did unicorn ever finish? |
| 08:17.44 | Mr_Rabies | yup just recently |
| 08:17.52 | Mr_Rabies | and Gundam The Origin episode 1 just came out |
| 08:18.14 | Arrowmaster | may need to watch unicorn, last time i did i only think 3 or 4 episodes were out |
| 08:18.15 | Mr_Rabies | which isn't really for new fans, even though the comic for it is basically a retelling of the original story with far more character development |
| 08:18.21 | Mr_Rabies | it's not bad |
| 08:18.26 | Mr_Rabies | it does kinda peter out IMO but |
| 08:18.38 | Mr_Rabies | it's got some very pretty visuals and some nice character moments |
| 08:18.43 | Arrowmaster | that first episode of unicorn though |
| 08:18.54 | Mr_Rabies | episode 4 is basically just mobile suit porn with no story, but i'm okay with that |
| 08:19.36 | Mr_Rabies | the manga version of "the origin" really explores some characters in a lot more depth |
| 08:19.47 | Mr_Rabies | especially characters like Sayla and Crowley Hamon |
| 08:20.09 | Mr_Rabies | Sayla's a downright badass in MSG: The Origin, and Hamon is basically a WACS lady |
| 08:21.26 | Arrowmaster | most of the gundam animes ive seen have all been set in their own universes and not the ones that are all in that one universe |
| 08:21.47 | Mr_Rabies | those are the ones i like the least, except for G Gundam |
| 08:22.06 | Mr_Rabies | G Gundam is basically Mobile Suit Gundam: Friendship is Forged Through Punching |
| 08:22.08 | Mr_Rabies | and i love it |
| 08:22.14 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 08:22.35 | Mr_Rabies | you should probably watch some of the main gundam stuff before unicorn |
| 08:22.49 | Arrowmaster | id need to figure out where to start |
| 08:23.09 | Mr_Rabies | it makes a lot, lot more sense if you've seen at least First Gundam (the movies are okay), Zeta Gundam(don't watch the movies), ZZ Gundam, and Char's Counterattack |
| 08:24.14 | Mr_Rabies | Zeta takes place less than a decade after the original, i believe, ZZ takes place immediately after Zeta, and CCA is a few years after ZZ |
| 08:24.19 | Mr_Rabies | unicorn is 3 years after CCA |
| 08:24.51 | Mr_Rabies | i'd recommend the original gundam movies (there's 3 of them with a 3 hour runtime each), then Zeta, ZZ, CCA |
| 08:25.21 | Mr_Rabies | the original gundam show is very good but has a LOT of leftover "super robot" stuff left in it |
| 08:26.02 | Mr_Rabies | it basically pioneered the "Real Robot" concept where the mechs are just machines, not superheroes, but the toy companies wanted to still sell the toys to kids so the original show still has some weird stuff that makes no sense in the more realistic world |
| 08:26.18 | Mr_Rabies | like launching the mobile suit in 3 parts from the same carrier instead of just launching it already built |
| 08:26.46 | Arrowmaster | i remember that |
| 08:26.51 | Mr_Rabies | it tries to be a bit realistic with it for 1979 (has to use laser guidance to line up the parts, etc) |
| 08:26.59 | Arrowmaster | i have seen i think 2 of the 3 first movies |
| 08:27.10 | Mr_Rabies | the third movie is one of my favorite movies ever |
| 08:27.28 | Mr_Rabies | the first one is very slow but it's dense with plot |
| 08:27.39 | Mr_Rabies | 2 and 3 are just as dense but get gradually more interesting to me |
| 08:27.53 | Mr_Rabies | part 1 feels very "amuro is on the good guy's team and the zeon are the bad guys" |
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| 08:29.25 | Mr_Rabies | part 2 is kinda "eh, the zeon guys have some good people, even at the top, and the federation is a bit corrupt" and part 3 is like "well, both sides are corrupt as all hell and the only good people are wanted dead by everyone else" |
| 08:36.26 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 08:49.42 | Jamash | I cannot condone referring to Gundam as "real robot" because Gundums operate on magic space physics. |
| 08:50.37 | Mr_Rabies | not exactly |
| 08:50.53 | Mr_Rabies | it's not real science, but it's not "magic" exactly either |
| 08:51.07 | Jamash | to me there are "real robot" aka use nothing which is outside current understanding of physics, "sci-fi robots" which operate on magic space physics but are more or less internally consistent, and "super robot" which operate on whimsy and unicorn farts |
| 08:51.55 | Mr_Rabies | mobile suits operate on a particle discovered when a certain variant of helium 3 mined on jupiter primarily undergoes a very powerful energy reaction |
| 08:52.16 | Jamash | Don't try to tell me that any part of minkovsky physics makes sense |
| 08:52.35 | Mr_Rabies | consider that the entire technical detail about the minovsky particle was made in 1979 and it operates from there |
| 08:52.51 | Mr_Rabies | it really doesn't matter that it's really scientific, so long as it is internally consistent |
| 08:53.12 | Mr_Rabies | no mecha show really operates on reality |
| 08:53.29 | Mr_Rabies | the closest is probably stuff in the VOTOMS universe, but |
| 08:53.48 | Mr_Rabies | even then they don't really explain what powers the ATs |
| 08:54.12 | Mr_Rabies | the mecha in Xabungle are Gasoline powered, but the show's not very realistic otherwise |
| 08:55.22 | Mr_Rabies | considering a 50 foot tall mech is 100% unrealistic anyway, VOTOMs is the clearest choice, but it even has a scene where he basically kills God and becomes the Ubermensch soooo |
| 08:56.02 | Jamash | One: there is no such thing as a "variant of helium 3". Two: The given properties of the particle contradict each other. |
| 08:56.51 | Mr_Rabies | i'd say even though it's not scientifically realistic it makes sense internally, and the science in gundam is heavily based on The High Frontier by Gerard K. O'Neill, which definitely has some speculation but the dude worked for NASA |
| 08:57.43 | Jamash | I'm not saying I think Gundam is bad because it uses fictional physics (I think it's bad for other reasons) |
| 08:58.22 | Mr_Rabies | i'm just saying nothing uses real physics, since there's no realism in a giant robot of any sort anyway |
| 08:58.42 | Jamash | I think using the term "real robot" for a robot that runs off fictional physics is self-contradictory. |
| 08:58.45 | Mr_Rabies | there's no real reason to have anything larger than say, the ones in VOTOMs |
| 08:58.56 | Jamash | depends on your definition of giant I guess |
| 08:59.16 | Mr_Rabies | and those are basically power armors that control like tanks |
| 08:59.24 | Mr_Rabies | ~15 feet tall, give or take, depending on model |
| 08:59.49 | Mr_Rabies | not that much more advanced than what Boston Dynamics is publically working on |
| 09:00.06 | Jamash | Patlabor robots are big but don't use magic space particles |
| 09:00.15 | Mr_Rabies | they're too big to be realistic, though |
| 09:00.24 | Mr_Rabies | they're handled realistically internally, but |
| 09:00.27 | Mr_Rabies | how are they powered? |
| 09:00.27 | Jamash | my only problem is the word "real" applied to magic space particles |
| 09:00.36 | Jamash | which are not, by definition, real |
| 09:00.57 | Jamash | and also fundamentally ignore basic electromagnetic principles |
| 09:01.23 | Jamash | electricity? |
| 09:01.30 | Mr_Rabies | if you have a problem with that you should probably have a problem with anything larger than about 15-20 feet with a bipedal design |
| 09:02.20 | Jamash | yes |
| 09:02.36 | Mr_Rabies | gundam is basically "Well it's 1979 and we'll probably have nuclear powered stuff soon, but if i say these are nuclear powered Japan's gonna flip its shit so we'll change it to a non-radioactive alternative to nuclear power" |
| 09:02.42 | Jamash | I have a problem with anything that is not physically possible called "real" |
| 09:02.54 | Jamash | like I have a problem with larry niven being called a hard science fiction author |
| 09:02.59 | Mr_Rabies | so the subgenre just shouldn't exist :v |
| 09:03.10 | Jamash | not really, there are a few |
| 09:03.15 | Mr_Rabies | i can't think of any |
| 09:03.17 | Jamash | I think the subgenre should have a different name |
| 09:03.19 | Jamash | ghost in the shell |
| 09:03.25 | Mr_Rabies | that's not a mecha show |
| 09:03.29 | Jamash | yes it is |
| 09:03.33 | Mr_Rabies | it has some robots in it but it's not a mecha show |
| 09:03.35 | Jamash | yes it is |
| 09:03.56 | Jamash | half of the cast are robots |
| 09:04.07 | Jamash | and the rest are cyborgs |
| 09:04.16 | Mr_Rabies | eh |
| 09:04.22 | Mr_Rabies | it's sci-fi, but not mecha |
| 09:04.30 | Mr_Rabies | the *komas are the closest thing |
| 09:04.40 | Mr_Rabies | and the spider-tank type stuff |
| 09:04.55 | Mr_Rabies | they're mecha but it's not a mecha show |
| 09:05.00 | Jamash | any show with this in it is mecha http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101030171908/ghostintheshell/en/images/thumb/7/7b/Sac21x05.jpg.jpg/830px-Sac21x05.jpg.jpg |
| 09:05.01 | Mr_Rabies | then there's weird ones like Ideon |
| 09:05.13 | Mr_Rabies | that's basically a super robot in a real robot universe |
| 09:05.22 | Jamash | haven't seen ideon |
| 09:05.26 | Jamash | I should though |
| 09:05.39 | Mr_Rabies | it's a giant mech posessed by a vengeful god |
| 09:05.41 | Mr_Rabies | but |
| 09:05.43 | Jamash | oh that makes sense |
| 09:05.49 | Jamash | more sense than gundams |
| 09:05.53 | Mr_Rabies | everything else is handled fairly realistically |
| 09:05.59 | Mr_Rabies | all the other mechs are just machines |
| 09:06.06 | Mr_Rabies | the ideon is also kind of a machine but |
| 09:06.06 | Jamash | part of my problem is I watched Gundam Wing which is terrible and am now allergic to gundam shows |
| 09:06.11 | *** join/#wowuidev dobson (~dobson@105.ip-167-114-152.net) |
| 09:06.11 | Mr_Rabies | gundam wing IS terrible |
| 09:06.14 | Jamash | so bad |
| 09:06.15 | Mr_Rabies | i agree |
| 09:06.29 | Jamash | haven't been able to force myself to watch any of the ones which are said to be good |
| 09:06.34 | Mr_Rabies | it's basically a terrible recap of the original gundam, zeta, ZZ, and CCA with all the nuance removed |
| 09:06.47 | Jamash | metaphorically speaking, gundam wing killed my parents |
| 09:06.56 | Mr_Rabies | the newest gundam show is pretty neat |
| 09:07.14 | Mr_Rabies | it still has minovsky particles but they're taboo on earth |
| 09:07.19 | Jamash | and then of course some of the gundam continuities have p-sychic powers which takes us firmly into super robot territory |
| 09:07.37 | Mr_Rabies | basically spacefaring people declared them unsafe because they were too powerful, so they basically ran earth on a religion that worships photon batteries |
| 09:07.50 | Mr_Rabies | which are basically solar-electric engines or something, it's not really explained |
| 09:07.55 | Jamash | also when you write things like that it makes me think all gundam stories are bad |
| 09:08.03 | Mr_Rabies | that's the thing though |
| 09:08.19 | Mr_Rabies | if you rely on technical detail for sci-fi you're failing miserably at what the genre is capable of |
| 09:08.24 | Jamash | if it doesn't make more sense than, say, Transformers cartoon, I am not really interested |
| 09:08.27 | Mr_Rabies | it doesn't matter WHY the mobile suits do what they do |
| 09:08.35 | Jamash | it kinda does though |
| 09:08.37 | Mr_Rabies | not at all |
| 09:08.41 | Jamash | disagree |
| 09:08.48 | Mr_Rabies | only if you've got some kinda spectrum disorder :v |
| 09:09.05 | Mr_Rabies | hard sci fi can be good but |
| 09:09.11 | Jamash | I like evangelion and TTGL more because they're upfront about the fact that their robots run on angel blood and HOT BLOODEDNESS respectively |
| 09:09.26 | Kalroth | angel blood is probably a good power source |
| 09:09.30 | Jamash | don't drink it |
| 09:09.31 | Mr_Rabies | gundam doesn't really explain how minovsky particles work in the show itself TBH |
| 09:09.37 | Jamash | handwavium |
| 09:09.41 | Jamash | star trek physics |
| 09:09.44 | Mr_Rabies | it's mostly in extra content that came a bit later |
| 09:09.49 | Jamash | ok answer me one question |
| 09:09.52 | Jamash | is gundam space opera |
| 09:10.05 | Mr_Rabies | to an extent, but eh |
| 09:10.11 | Jamash | okay then |
| 09:10.23 | Mr_Rabies | it misses too many of the points i'd use to call something a space opera |
| 09:10.35 | Jamash | it's really only about the word "real" in "real robot" and I'm aware japan doesn't english good |
| 09:10.38 | Mr_Rabies | the original amuro/char story has a lot of space opera elements |
| 09:10.58 | Mr_Rabies | even tomino doesn't really seperate "real robot" and "super robot" |
| 09:11.04 | Mr_Rabies | that distinction mostly came from the super robot wars games |
| 09:11.13 | Mr_Rabies | real robots dodge attacks, super robots tank them with their superpowers |
| 09:11.18 | Mr_Rabies | that's the big difference |
| 09:11.26 | Jamash | don't they move entire space colonies around earth orbit and/or drop them in the atmosphere without any explanation for where they get all that delta-v? |
| 09:11.28 | Mr_Rabies | real robots have to be repaired and are out of commission until they do so |
| 09:11.42 | Mr_Rabies | super robots lose an arm and it's back next episode/fight with no explanation |
| 09:11.44 | Mr_Rabies | whatsoever |
| 09:12.03 | Jamash | except that evangelion robots have to be repaired and are out of commission until they do, and when one grows an arm back it's for a specific reason |
| 09:12.06 | Mr_Rabies | they do explain the delta-v |
| 09:12.14 | Jamash | so basically you're saying evangelion is real robot |
| 09:12.15 | Jamash | congratulations |
| 09:12.23 | Mr_Rabies | the colonies really only need enough delta-v to leave the lagrange points |
| 09:12.29 | Mr_Rabies | eva has real robot elements |
| 09:12.33 | Mr_Rabies | it's an ideon knockoff |
| 09:12.33 | Mr_Rabies | :v |
| 09:12.35 | Jamash | and dropping them into the atmosphere? |
| 09:12.49 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, they're absolutely massive though |
| 09:12.58 | Mr_Rabies | they tend to break in half, etc during reentry |
| 09:13.04 | Jamash | I mean delta-v |
| 09:13.13 | Mr_Rabies | it's just gravity really |
| 09:13.20 | Jamash | it takes more delta-v to drop a colony into the atmosphere than to fire it out of earth orbit entirely |
| 09:13.57 | Mr_Rabies | they do have giant engines they use to correct for any gravitational drift they may encounter, etc |
| 09:14.01 | Mr_Rabies | but |
| 09:14.18 | Mr_Rabies | it's mostly just gravity that does the work |
| 09:14.24 | Jamash | now the ISS is low enough they need regular boosting against drag |
| 09:14.31 | Jamash | I think you fundamentally misunderstand how orbits work |
| 09:14.49 | Mr_Rabies | space colonies don't really orbit, they're stationary more or less |
| 09:14.52 | Jamash | in order to put something into the atmosphere you need to change its perigee by thousands of miles |
| 09:14.57 | Jamash | that's not even close to being true |
| 09:15.03 | Mr_Rabies | they probably get minimal gravity here and there |
| 09:15.22 | Mr_Rabies | but they're in lagrange points where earth's gravity is very minimal |
| 09:15.31 | Jamash | look into lagrange point physics, the points are only stationary in a rotating earth-moon reference frame |
| 09:15.56 | Mr_Rabies | ah yeah i guess you're right, i kinda misunderstood how the gravity interacted |
| 09:16.00 | Jamash | relative to an inertial earth-moon frame they're going miles per second |
| 09:16.23 | Jamash | well, thousands of feet per second anyway |
| 09:16.28 | Jamash | it depends |
| 09:16.35 | Mr_Rabies | it's really not important though, that's what gundam teaches you |
| 09:16.38 | Mr_Rabies | however they solved it |
| 09:16.41 | Mr_Rabies | they solved it |
| 09:16.51 | Mr_Rabies | it's there for a dramatic effect, not to teach science |
| 09:17.10 | Jamash | anyway zzzz |
| 09:17.12 | Mr_Rabies | most the lagrange point stuff is almost entirely additional stuff that came later, as well |
| 09:17.14 | Jamash | gnight |
| 09:17.28 | Mr_Rabies | most of the technical stuff is very vague in gundam on purpose for one reason: it's a character story, not a science story |
| 09:17.31 | Mr_Rabies | later |
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| 09:18.42 | Mr_Rabies | Tomino himself has said basically he wishes he'd thought more about using some of the designs, like the White Base Operates in the Atmosphere numerous times and it makes absolutely zero sense looking at it |
| 09:18.52 | Mr_Rabies | man, i'm random capsing things, yeehaw |
| 09:36.34 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 10:52.04 | karl_w_w | really, it's possible to show/hide party frames while in combat? |
| 11:56.20 | *** join/#wowuidev elvador (~elvador@WoWUIDev/WowAce/Elvador) |
| 12:09.59 | mitch0 | only via alpha setting |
| 12:10.04 | mitch0 | (afaik) |
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| 12:13.43 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 12:16.01 | Fisker | hugtackles Lopeppeppy |
| 12:21.44 | Lopeppeppy | Bonjour, delicious mortals. |
| 12:28.52 | mikma | http://www.break.com/video/possibly-the-best-country-song-ever-written-2829212 |
| 12:28.58 | mikma | oh yeah, nsfw, of course |
| 12:32.10 | mitch0 | ;) |
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| 12:53.31 | karl_w_w | eh, well, zperl somehow seems to be able to show and hide group frames in combat and i can't work out how |
| 12:55.25 | mitch0 | sure it's not fully transparent? |
| 12:55.34 | mitch0 | s/not/not just/ |
| 12:56.41 | karl_w_w | i mean, the place the frame was didn't respond to mouse |
| 12:57.25 | karl_w_w | or at least, responded as if there was nothing there blocking clicks |
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| 15:07.49 | Lopeppeppy | glomps alestane |
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| 15:42.36 | karl_w_w | science yo http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-09/wa-meteor-likely-hit-over-mid-west-academic-says/6292362 |
| 15:46.55 | *** join/#wowuidev Pursche01 (uid28470@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vovltkqoxtnlcstx) |
| 15:48.57 | Pursche01 | Good evening, I was wondering if anyone has experience with Auctioneer? I tried asking my question in their IRC channel but it seems kinda dead and the topic said to ask here. I have basicly modified it to show me TSM's Region Median Price on all auctions but in doing so I have edited straight into Auctioneer, I could need some pointers on making it into a |
| 15:48.57 | Pursche01 | standalone addon. |
| 15:49.20 | Pursche01 | Printscreen: http://i.imgur.com/jIBljGO.png Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/dYCcnfpA Rows edited (added in this case): 2 |
| 15:49.53 | Pursche01 | I would prefer to have it as an external addon (if that's even possible without editing Auctioneer) since that would mean that I don't need to do my modifications each time Auctioneer updates. |
| 15:50.38 | Pursche01 | The RMP field in the printscreen is what I added if you couldn't tell. |
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| 16:53.33 | kullervo | who'd I have to shout at about garrison commander? It really COULD prioritize treasure hunters on missions they're underleveled for if the success chance meets the limit |
| 16:54.21 | pompy | http://www.dailydot.com/technology/google-flights-features/?fb=dd |
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| 18:03.15 | karl_w_w | how can I regex for a string that is not preceded by another string on the same line? |
| 18:03.33 | karl_w_w | in this case, "this" not preceded by "--" |
| 18:04.36 | nevcairiel | you mean in regex or lua pattern? |
| 18:05.03 | karl_w_w | regex |
| 18:06.39 | nevcairiel | look for negative look behind |
| 18:07.07 | nevcairiel | (?<!--)this |
| 18:22.34 | karl_w_w | didn't work for some reason |
| 18:28.01 | Semlar | probably because - is a special character |
| 18:28.24 | Semlar | did you escape it? |
| 18:29.06 | karl_w_w | i checked, it doesn't say it's special :( |
| 18:29.19 | Semlar | well it is |
| 18:29.34 | karl_w_w | escaping didn't fix it |
| 18:29.46 | *** join/#wowuidev Ironi (~ironi@85-76-131-208-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:29.57 | Semlar | not all types of regex support lookbehind |
| 18:30.48 | zenzelezz | regular expressions are so regular that there are dozens of different implementations \o/ |
| 18:30.59 | karl_w_w | so blame grep? |
| 18:31.21 | VIad | PCRE is pretty popular |
| 18:32.49 | VIad | oh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_regular_expression_engines#Language_features |
| 18:33.01 | VIad | lua has no lookahead/behind |
| 18:33.24 | Semlar | it's not regex |
| 18:33.35 | VIad | lua has regex! |
| 18:33.45 | Semlar | lua has pattern matching |
| 18:33.58 | Torhal | How many fucking times have I seen people say "it's not regex" and the person they're saying it to continues to complain that it doesn't work like regex? |
| 18:34.01 | VIad | you suggest that the wiki is WRONG suggesting? |
| 18:34.09 | zenzelezz | yes |
| 18:34.12 | Torhal | headdesks. |
| 18:34.19 | Semlar | i'm saying lua's implementation of pattern matching is very basic to keep the size down |
| 18:34.55 | zenzelezz | http://www.lua.org/pil/20.1.html seems honest enough |
| 18:35.18 | karl_w_w | so you're telling me lua pattern matching is not regex? |
| 18:35.36 | VIad | I think it's nitpicking, because lua patterns are a stripped down regex |
| 18:35.43 | VIad | unless it's technically differently implemented |
| 18:36.06 | VIad | but doubt it's that different that you can't call lua patterns for regex or vice versa - only difference is the functionality in the library |
| 18:36.47 | VIad | regardless what you call it the idea is the same, do we have to argue? :( |
| 18:37.02 | Semlar | yes we have to argue |
| 18:37.08 | Semlar | that's all we do here |
| 18:37.29 | Semlar | that's how programmers communicate |
| 18:38.21 | VIad | also just to be fair, Torhal, "... a regular expression and sometimes called a rational expression is a sequence of characters that forms a search pattern, mainly for use in pattern matching with strings ..." |
| 18:38.35 | karl_w_w | that and making comparisons, Semlar |
| 18:38.38 | Torhal | headdesks and walks away. |
| 18:38.55 | VIad | sometimes Torhal just wanna argue for fun |
| 18:39.17 | haste | doesn't seem Torhal has much phone arguing right now |
| 18:39.45 | Neffi | You fucking people |
| 18:39.53 | VIad | we all fuck people |
| 18:40.00 | Torhal | I'm not trying to argue. I'm saying that Lua's pattern matching is NOT regex. It can't do all the things regex does. If you want to complain about it not working like regex when it is NOT regex, that's on you. |
| 18:40.11 | Neffi | Lua patterns are not regex, nor are they a "stripped down" regex. Regex is not a generic term to apply to any string implementation out there. |
| 18:40.45 | VIad | there are several regex implementations out there |
| 18:41.03 | VIad | being different functionality wise - doesn't make one less regex than the other |
| 18:41.05 | Torhal | That doesn't mean Lua's pattern matching is one of them. |
| 18:41.06 | karl_w_w | and lua pattern matching isn't one of them |
| 18:41.29 | Neffi | Also it's my understanding that most regex implementations are literally not regex |
| 18:41.32 | Neffi | in that they are not regular |
| 18:41.46 | VIad | but all regex is sequences of characters that form search patterns - can't say lua doesn't do that :P |
| 18:41.54 | Neffi | no |
| 18:42.06 | Torhal | Are you sure you want to argue for fun, and not just to annoy the piss out of everyone? |
| 18:42.14 | karl_w_w | that's like saying burger king and mcdonalds are different but still fast food restaurants, that means walmart is also fast food |
| 18:42.15 | Torhal | goes back to code. |
| 18:42.39 | VIad | feels like, unless it's not a fully fledged lookaheadbehindoverunder everything supported - then it's not regex :P |
| 18:42.42 | Neffi | VIad: regex is a system to describe regular languages. it's not a generic term for string searching. |
| 18:42.57 | Neffi | for instance, there are also pegs which are definitely not regex |
| 18:43.00 | VIad | I dunno, I read a different definition of regex |
| 18:43.25 | Neffi | Grammars are not my strong point, but I know enough to know you're wrong :P |
| 18:44.16 | karl_w_w | regex isn't a definition, it's an established system |
| 18:44.26 | karl_w_w | lua pattern matching doesn't follow it |
| 18:44.36 | Neffi | by the way, Lua sort of does have official regex, just not distributed with the base system |
| 18:44.48 | Arrowmaster | then its not official |
| 18:44.51 | VIad | lua.org themselves said they wrote their version smaller at the cost of functionality |
| 18:44.57 | Neffi | we have lpeg, which is pegs, which also ships a pure-Lua "re.lua" module which is regex built atop pegs |
| 18:45.13 | VIad | doesn't mean it's not regex just because it doesn't have all the functionality that the largest libraries have |
| 18:45.16 | Neffi | http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/lpeg/re.html |
| 18:45.53 | VIad | zenzelezz: linked himself, here is a snip "In comparison, the implementation of pattern matching in Lua has less than 500 lines. Of course, the pattern matching in Lua cannot do all that a full POSIX implementation does." |
| 18:46.02 | Arrowmaster | there are two primary syntaxes that are considered 'regex' lua does neither so its not regex |
| 18:46.10 | VIad | implying that they used the POSIX as a starting point but implemented a smaller version |
| 18:46.14 | karl_w_w | if it was just stripped down regex, all lua pattern matching queries would work in regex. they don't |
| 18:46.15 | Semlar | they specifically avoid calling it regex in that article to avoid confusion |
| 18:46.21 | Neffi | VIad: no that does not imply anything |
| 18:46.40 | VIad | "In comparison, the implementation of pattern matching in Lua" |
| 18:46.40 | Neffi | VIad: all it implies is that they're offering a comparison to a well established common basis people can understand |
| 18:47.05 | Neffi | also Lua patterns can do a couple things regex cannot iirc |
| 18:47.18 | Neffi | I don't remember what they are, but it further supports that it's obviously not regex |
| 18:47.52 | Neffi | the things I linked above IS regex. there's a difference. |
| 18:49.15 | VIad | I just think of regex in a broader way, like a pattern that the engine tries to match to literal text. |
| 18:49.34 | VIad | seems many see it as a very specific and narrow thing that has no wiggleroom :P |
| 18:49.46 | Neffi | your definition of regex is wrong then. that's fine. |
| 18:49.47 | Shirik | %b |
| 18:49.52 | Shirik | that is impossible in regex |
| 18:49.59 | Neffi | good example Shirik |
| 18:50.06 | Shirik | %f is also a bit of a challenge |
| 18:50.07 | VIad | but %b IS regex |
| 18:50.11 | VIad | a regular expression |
| 18:50.11 | Shirik | uh no |
| 18:50.12 | Shirik | it is not |
| 18:50.13 | Neffi | ... |
| 18:50.23 | VIad | it is not a literal character |
| 18:50.30 | Shirik | that is not what a regular expression is |
| 18:50.32 | VIad | it means something that the engine handles a certain way |
| 18:50.41 | Semlar | you're just arguing semantics |
| 18:50.45 | Neffi | VIad: you literally do not know what the word "regex" means. That's OK. Stop arguing from an incorrect stance, though. |
| 18:50.46 | Shirik | no I'm not |
| 18:50.51 | Shirik | a regular expression is a very well defined construct |
| 18:51.13 | VIad | .+ is a pattern, it happens to be both a regular expression (regex) and a lua pattern |
| 18:51.35 | Neffi | Semlar: this is boring. wanna run off together? |
| 18:51.50 | VIad | you aren't presenting a clear difference of a pattern ad a regex |
| 18:51.57 | VIad | you just argue "X is (not|a) regex" |
| 18:52.04 | Semlar | vlad is saying the term "regular expression" can refer to any pattern matching |
| 18:52.09 | Shirik | and it can't |
| 18:52.10 | VIad | yes |
| 18:52.17 | Shirik | it is extremely well defined |
| 18:52.21 | Semlar | it's technically correct, the best kind of correct |
| 18:52.28 | Shirik | it's not technically correct |
| 18:52.31 | Arrowmaster | there are only two well defined regex syntaxes |
| 18:52.32 | VIad | lol |
| 18:52.36 | Neffi | regex is something very particular, VIad. it is not a broard term synonymous with pattern matching. I dont know why you're struggling with this. |
| 18:52.41 | Torhal | So the Lua pattern matching system borrows a few things from regex - that does not make it regex. Your whole argument of "well, this is just how I see it" isn't just a fun mental exercise. You're claiming that a well-established system is the same as something that borrows from it in certain cases. |
| 18:52.44 | Fisker | Hey Shirik |
| 18:52.49 | Semlar | when people talk about regex, they aren't referring to just any pattern matching though |
| 18:52.50 | Neffi | All Ford vehicles are automobiles, but not all automobiles are Ford vehicles. |
| 18:52.56 | Torhal | You're being deliberately obtuse and infuriating. |
| 18:53.01 | Shirik | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression#Formal_definition |
| 18:53.02 | Semlar | they're talking about posix and anything based on it |
| 18:53.02 | Shirik | There you go |
| 18:53.27 | Shirik | Start at Given a finite alphabet Σ, the following constants are defined as regular expressions: |
| 18:53.36 | Arrowmaster | posix and pcre |
| 18:53.54 | Arrowmaster | they are incompatible but both still regex |
| 18:54.00 | Shirik | interesting sidenote: part of the reason LPEG is so powerful is because it is NOT a regular expression |
| 18:54.11 | Fisker | I miss Shirik |
| 18:54.19 | VIad | just because some engine can't read some patterns, doesn't make it less regex tbh |
| 18:54.23 | Shirik | ffs |
| 18:54.24 | Shirik | dude |
| 18:54.28 | Shirik | it's fucking defined IN MATH |
| 18:54.28 | Neffi | Fisker: try your shot again then |
| 18:54.45 | Shirik | it is beyond the scope of any given implementation of regex |
| 18:54.52 | Shirik | lua patterns do not conform to the mathematical definition |
| 18:55.14 | VIad | I didn't say lua patterns can handle all what posix and pcre can handle either |
| 18:55.31 | Torhal | I'm going to start telling everyone that Java is C because it has integers and curly braces. |
| 18:55.41 | VIad | just said it's a simpler regex system, and I think it is smart not to call it regex just so it's not confused for posix/pcre like semlar said earlier. |
| 18:55.41 | Neffi | wait, Java isn't C? :P |
| 18:55.45 | Torhal | That's essentially what you're doing here. |
| 18:55.58 | Shirik | I give up. You fundamentally do not understand what a regular expression is, and you're not listening to me telling you it's a mathematical definition, so it's pointless to continue this further. There is no multiple definitions of regular expressions. There is one. |
| 18:56.10 | Neffi | VIad: It's not to avoid confusion. It is NOT an implementation of the rules of regex, therefore it is not regex. |
| 18:56.18 | Semlar | it's not a simpler version of regex, it's just not regex because even the simplest version of regex they could embed would have been too large |
| 18:56.30 | Semlar | that's exactly what that article was saying |
| 18:57.01 | Semlar | it's just their implementation of pattern matching |
| 18:57.59 | Neffi | wanders off to acquire foodstuffs. |
| 18:58.11 | Semlar | i don't have any food neffi |
| 18:58.23 | Semlar | pick me something up |
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| 18:59.25 | VIad | should just call it pattern matching, since that is what both lua does and regex like posix/pcre :p |
| 18:59.39 | Semlar | it is called pattern matching |
| 19:00.17 | Shirik | YOU should call it pattern matching. Everyone else already does. |
| 19:00.45 | Fisker | I call it why is mommy and daddy yelling? |
| 19:00.52 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 19:00.52 | Semlar | GO BACK TO BED |
| 19:01.03 | Fisker | Hey Shirik |
| 19:02.23 | VIad | aside of the theorem, regex is just a regular expression, a pattern following some rules, like the use of %X [] ^ $ and so forth. the theorem just happens to use the same name so people argue semantics :/ |
| 19:03.53 | Semlar | they don't argue semantics for the hell of it, there's a reason you call them two different things |
| 19:06.29 | VIad | technically what would you call it if you made your own pattern matcher that handled .+ and .* but nothing else - just a pattern matcher? |
| 19:06.46 | Torhal | Yes. |
| 19:09.01 | Shirik | There is actaully a meaning to "regular" |
| 19:09.06 | Shirik | it's not just a word |
| 19:10.13 | VIad | what does it mean in the context of regex? |
| 19:11.31 | Semlar | why are you even arguing, you've had like ten people tell you you're wrong, do you just not believe them? |
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| 19:11.53 | Torhal | Semlar: I think he has fun making people's faces turn red. |
| 19:12.03 | VIad | you just think I argue right now, I don't :p I just asked since Shirik said it means something else in this conversation |
| 19:12.42 | Semlar | he linked to the formal definition earlier |
| 19:12.50 | Shirik | I would have to get deep in the bowels of abstract algebra to get into that conversation |
| 19:13.16 | Shirik | This gives you a decent introduction without going off the deep end: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_language |
| 19:13.25 | Semlar | i'm gonna go edit the article to match my definition though |
| 19:13.36 | Semlar | and put it under the Formal definition header |
| 19:13.42 | VIad | "a regular language can be defined as a language recognized by a finite automaton" |
| 19:13.58 | Semlar | i thought you said you weren't arguing |
| 19:14.03 | VIad | that is from the wiki |
| 19:14.07 | VIad | it's a citation |
| 19:14.08 | VIad | quotation |
| 19:14.09 | VIad | :P |
| 19:14.12 | Semlar | i will slap you |
| 19:14.15 | VIad | dont think it's arguing |
| 19:14.34 | VIad | unless you have a different definition and think I am arguing |
| 19:14.38 | Semlar | do you know what semantics are |
| 19:15.21 | karl_w_w | playing with fire there Semlar |
| 19:15.32 | karl_w_w | maybe he has his own definition of semantics too :P |
| 19:15.39 | Shirik | There are things Lua patterns can do that cannot be recognized by a finite automaton |
| 19:15.40 | Semlar | o.o |
| 19:15.49 | Shirik | %b is one of them |
| 19:16.39 | VIad | regular language isn't strickly about regex, Sh |
| 19:17.44 | Shirik | a regular expression is an implementation of a regular language |
| 19:17.49 | Shirik | representation, use of |
| 19:17.52 | Shirik | not sure the right word there |
| 19:18.03 | Shirik | point is, if a regular expression does something not... regular.... then it is not a regular expression |
| 19:18.03 | Torhal | Strickly isn't even a word. |
| 19:18.33 | Shirik | the concept %b is not regular, therefore it cannot possibly be a regular expression |
| 19:19.15 | Shirik | %f isn't even context-free now that I think about it |
| 19:20.29 | VIad | for the sake of arguing, if you take posix and add support for your %b would it still be regex? like if you ran the regex test suite on it it would all pass, hence what you'd do was just expand the functionality of your engine |
| 19:20.47 | Shirik | your definition of "regex" is that it passes the posix test suite |
| 19:20.51 | Shirik | that is not what a regex is |
| 19:21.06 | Shirik | You would now have a pattern matching engine that is not regular |
| 19:21.11 | Shirik | And this actually has very serious consequences |
| 19:21.21 | Shirik | It can cause your performance to plummet |
| 19:22.20 | zenzelezz | your mom is so irregular she can't even be parsed by perl |
| 19:23.09 | Kalroth | regex101.com to solve all regex arguments! |
| 19:23.15 | Shirik | random sidenote: pcre actually aren't regular either |
| 19:23.24 | Shirik | specifically, backreferences aren't regular |
| 19:23.33 | zenzelezz | how so? |
| 19:25.29 | VIad | how can pcre be called regex when it's not regular then? :p |
| 19:25.29 | Shirik | Backreferences effectively introduce infinite state |
| 19:26.50 | zenzelezz | VIad: think of it as "theory" in "theory of evolution" |
| 19:27.04 | zenzelezz | the word just has more, less common, meanings |
| 19:27.45 | VIad | got the impressions the requirements to be called regex were absolute according to the formal definition of regex |
| 19:27.56 | Shirik | because perl is evil, basically |
| 19:28.32 | VIad | like how my suggestion to use posix and expand it with the %b from lua patterns, would also make it not regex anymore and just pattern matcher :p |
| 19:28.35 | Shirik | most regex systems get it right: they call them regular expressions with perl-compatible extensions |
| 19:28.41 | Shirik | grep does this, for example |
| 19:28.52 | VIad | we need to find a shorter name for that :p |
| 19:28.57 | Shirik | but nobody wants to say that |
| 19:29.02 | zenzelezz | isn't greap more like "lulz I support four different regexes" |
| 19:29.11 | Shirik | zenzelezz: you could argue that too :P |
| 19:29.21 | VIad | no zenzelezz, it's not a regex if it's not following the definition |
| 19:29.31 | VIad | i.e. if it's pcre then it's not a regex :p |
| 19:29.49 | zenzelezz | that depends on the specific regex; it could still be |
| 19:29.50 | VIad | grep supports three regexes and 1 regex with perl compatible extensions |
| 19:30.04 | Shirik | the real fun part is when you get into "PCRE does not mean compatible with perl" |
| 19:30.05 | VIad | oh no I made the mistake too! |
| 19:30.40 | VIad | btw I didnt read from the start but what was the original talk about regex, Semlar? :p |
| 19:30.42 | zenzelezz | that's between no-one outside of perl people understand what perl is capable of |
| 19:30.43 | VIad | what was the problem |
| 19:31.00 | zenzelezz | something about backreferencing |
| 19:31.56 | VIad | looked it up, was fun to read the quoted "forward back reference" :p |
| 19:32.12 | VIad | sidenote on the results that came up when looking for backreferences |
| 19:32.37 | VIad | I love pattern matching |
| 19:32.42 | VIad | pama for short |
| 19:33.10 | VIad | like matching the attributes of xml or html elements, regardless of the order they appear in and such |
| 19:33.24 | zenzelezz | I like when programming languages use words in fun ways |
| 19:33.34 | VIad | like? |
| 19:33.40 | zenzelezz | like the saying "std::forward doesn't forward, std::move doesn't move" |
| 19:33.44 | zenzelezz | because technically they don't |
| 19:35.20 | VIad | what is the worst programming language ever? |
| 19:35.46 | Shirik | std::move basically does the opposite of move, lol |
| 19:35.57 | Shirik | it makes sure the data stays in the same place in memory |
| 19:38.51 | VIad | btw in javascript {}+[] is a 0 and []+{} is a string "[object Object]" |
| 19:38.54 | VIad | amusing |
| 19:39.14 | Torhal | VIad: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 19:39.21 | VIad | {0}+{} is NaN and {}+{0} is a syntax error |
| 19:39.30 | VIad | weird how {0}+{} didn't syntax error :P |
| 19:40.03 | VIad | {*} actually returns what ever is inside the {} weird |
| 19:40.19 | VIad | like {5} is 5 and {'a'} is the string "a" |
| 19:40.21 | VIad | nice Torhal |
| 19:40.31 | VIad | gonna watch that :p |
| 19:41.08 | Kalroth | it's simple, its just truthy vs falsey |
| 19:42.34 | Shirik | ah yes javascript might actually have the worst coercion rules in the history of language |
| 19:42.47 | Shirik | sometimes this is why I love Ada |
| 19:43.23 | VIad | btw really interesting read about php http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ :P |
| 19:43.33 | VIad | loads of neat things I didn't know about |
| 19:43.45 | Neffi | VIad: It's amusing, but is this stuff actually true or is this just undefined behavior and how his implementation handles it? |
| 19:43.48 | Shirik | php is just inconsistent for the most part imo |
| 19:44.00 | Shirik | the core language (i.e., if you had no functions) is pretty decent |
| 19:44.09 | Shirik | javascript is just flawed at the core level |
| 19:44.09 | VIad | could try it on nodejs maybe |
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| 19:44.17 | VIad | I just tried it in my browser dev window |
| 19:44.29 | VIad | not sure what the purest form of js interpreter is |
| 19:44.42 | Neffi | "purest form"? |
| 19:44.49 | Neffi | there's a specification, and there's implementations |
| 19:44.53 | VIad | yes |
| 19:44.55 | VIad | implementation |
| 19:45.08 | Neffi | if the spec says something is undefined, there is no pure way to handle it |
| 19:45.24 | Neffi | so there's no one "right" implementation |
| 19:45.27 | VIad | I am just annoyed when some math functions return NaN and others other values :( |
| 19:45.33 | Neffi | as long as they are all conformant, whatever they do is right |
| 19:45.46 | Neffi | then don't use a shitty language :D |
| 19:45.49 | Shirik | undefined behavior is a good thing :D |
| 19:45.59 | VIad | not many options when it comes to web development |
| 19:46.02 | VIad | you have javascript or nothinbg |
| 19:46.05 | Kalroth | undefined behavior is freedom to hack later |
| 19:46.11 | Kalroth | freedom is good! |
| 19:46.14 | VIad | or do you want me to use vbscripts in my html? |
| 19:46.21 | Shirik | without undefined behavior, you create horrible performance |
| 19:46.23 | Neffi | I didn't say it wasn't. I just meant that Javascript in particular is shitty, Shirik |
| 19:46.23 | VIad | IE supports vbscripts |
| 19:46.33 | Shirik | I agree |
| 19:46.41 | Kalroth | script languages should die, ASM all the way |
| 19:46.45 | Neffi | VIad: well yeah on the client side. On the other side you have all sorts of options, no? |
| 19:46.49 | Neffi | you can use Lua on the server |
| 19:47.03 | Shirik | there was some video I watched about javascript becoming the new ASM |
| 19:47.11 | Kalroth | ASM.js :p |
| 19:47.14 | Neffi | yeah that was a good one. also by Destroy All Software |
| 19:47.20 | VIad | ofc! but you need js to make the client nicer - though slowly replaced with better and better CSS - though STILL a lot of unique implementations of weird syntaxes for each single browser on the CSS end -_- |
| 19:47.21 | Neffi | lemme find it. it's quite enjoyable |
| 19:47.24 | Kalroth | http://asmjs.org/ |
| 19:47.35 | Neffi | https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript |
| 19:47.43 | Neffi | If you've got ahalf hour watch it. It's charming and hilarious |
| 19:47.54 | Shirik | oh, it was also on destroyallsoftware |
| 19:48.01 | VIad | I queued both that and what Torhal linked |
| 19:48.01 | Neffi | Shirik: see above :D |
| 19:48.06 | VIad | now gonna get my pizza and enjoy :D |
| 19:48.17 | Shirik | slow :( |
| 19:48.27 | VIad | 85mb gonna take me 10 min :D |
| 19:48.37 | Neffi | anyway, VIad, you can use Lua on the client-side too |
| 19:49.02 | VIad | not sure what the support is though :p |
| 19:49.06 | Neffi | Rio Lua VM compiled to Javascript using Escripten: http://kripken.github.io/lua.vm.js/lua.vm.js.html |
| 19:49.08 | VIad | like when someone visits and get "please install lua" :D |
| 19:49.24 | Neffi | Oh no, it should work in all modern browsers |
| 19:49.45 | Neffi | don't expect speed, and if you actually use this, I would be disappointed as all hell, but it's not impossible! |
| 19:49.50 | VIad | got a 900 score on the test |
| 19:51.00 | VIad | seems hard to debug in my browser as the console is for js :p |
| 19:51.20 | Neffi | I'm gonna pull out the benchmarks real quick to compare performance to native Lua and to LuaJIT. gimme a few min |
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| 21:47.46 | kd3 | 2 hours later... |
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| 21:50.48 | Gnarfoz | yeah? |
| 21:50.55 | Gnarfoz | sup kd3 |
| 21:50.56 | kd3 | 15:51:20 <Neffi> I'm gonna pull out the benchmarks real quick to compare performance to native Lua and to LuaJIT. gimme a few min |
| 21:50.58 | kd3 | 'lo |
| 21:51.04 | Gnarfoz | ah. hehe |
| 21:51.28 | Neffi | huh? |
| 21:51.29 | Gnarfoz | "real quick" already turned into "a few min" by the end of the sentence... it only escalated from there |
| 21:51.38 | Neffi | oh, right. |
| 21:51.51 | Neffi | yeah I wandered off to go get food and get caught up with stuff. forgot about this |
| 21:57.48 | zenzelezz | Neffi: also, sometimes masturbation just happens. No need being secretive about it |
| 21:57.55 | Neffi | hahaha |
| 21:57.59 | kd3 | lmao |
| 21:58.22 | Neffi | I guess I could run the benchmark if you really want but I'm kinda playing Skyrim now :) |
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| 23:48.12 | mikma | ugh, minecraft server crashing every now and then because of "server ticks" |
| 23:48.54 | jleclanche | <Neffi> I guess I could run the benchmark if you really want but I'm kinda playing Skyrim now :) |
| 23:49.00 | jleclanche | it's weird you named your genitals that way |
| 23:50.23 | zenzelezz | then you probably find it peculiar that I named mine "Mass Effect" |
| 23:51.54 | Neffi | :( |
| 23:56.19 | Semlar | we're wiping at the same point on blast furnace but we're doing it a lot faster, so that's progress |
