| 00:00.06 | Simca | wait, they're ruling that traffic shaping is illegal? |
| 00:00.06 | Neffi | nevcairiel: the FCC is currently head by a former lobbyist |
| 00:00.25 | Simca | doesn't like every US provider do that now |
| 00:00.25 | fewyn | we don't have all the details |
| 00:00.26 | Neffi | I was disappointed when he was appointed. He turned out wonderful. He has the guts to tell the ISPs "fuck off" |
| 00:00.42 | fewyn | a lot of them do Simca |
| 00:00.56 | Simca | I know mine does, for sure |
| 00:01.06 | nevcairiel | Simca: slowing down unwanted traffic should be illegal, whatever you want to access shouldnt be influenced by what ISP you use |
| 00:01.14 | fewyn | ^ |
| 00:01.23 | nevcairiel | thats what we call net neutrality |
| 00:01.25 | Neffi | well, it kind of is, by way of peering |
| 00:01.26 | fewyn | like some ISPs shape torrent traffic |
| 00:01.32 | Neffi | but doing it intentionally, yeah, that's not OK |
| 00:01.33 | Simca | (Comcast) |
| 00:01.35 | fewyn | which is annoying |
| 00:01.43 | fewyn | because there's a ton of legal uses for torrents |
| 00:01.49 | fewyn | there's some that also shape usenet traffic |
| 00:01.51 | fewyn | but not many |
| 00:02.06 | fewyn | and if you do it on a non-standard port and use SSL it's moot |
| 00:02.07 | Simca | but yeah my upload speed on Comcast for torrents is just awful |
| 00:03.34 | Gnarfoz | http://knowmore.washingtonpost.com/2014/04/25/this-hilarious-graph-of-netflix-speeds-shows-the-importance-of-net-neutrality/ ! :) |
| 00:13.04 | foxlit | Guest60243: Simca, looks like they hotfixed those garrison data in different way, they updated db2 files instead of using adb for this << they did what now? |
| 00:14.08 | Simca | i looked at it, it looks like they did neither |
| 00:14.16 | foxlit | I'm still getting MD5 (garrmissionxencounter.db2) = 11a373f6ab2aac68c33ac82a6c46ec22, which doesn't match what the client thinks the data should be. |
| 00:14.19 | Simca | it looks like they just send complete mission data to the client on request |
| 00:14.38 | Simca | when it asks what mission it has, it gets server data about all parts of the mission |
| 00:15.06 | Simca | they don't seem to use the GarrMissionXEncounter data or write to the adb |
| 00:17.26 | foxlit | would explain the observable behaviour, at least. |
| 00:18.07 | Simca | at least they seem to sync GarrMissionXEncounter.db2 when they sync all db2s with server data before big patches |
| 00:18.14 | Simca | so it is reliable in general |
| 00:18.25 | Simca | but there is no way to detect hotfixes I guess |
| 00:18.41 | Simca | (PTR db2 has the change, like you said) |
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| 01:18.16 | Torhal | Simca: You know what's an absolutely fabulous idea? |
| 01:18.28 | Simca | Torhal: what? |
| 01:19.32 | Torhal | Tooltip-scanning to set CRATE_USE_STRING and iterating through the tracking methods to set digsitesTrackingID every time you check to see if the player has the Archaeology skill. You know, instead of just doing it in OnEnable. |
| 01:20.01 | Torhal | The amount of stupid I'm still finding is strongly reminding me of why I gave up the rewrite four years ago. |
| 01:20.34 | Torhal | On the plus side, though, that was another huge CPU usage reduction. |
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| 01:33.04 | kd3 | bleh. wtb a better way to show a conversation tree... http://wow.gamepedia.com/Music_Roll:_Totems_of_the_Grizzlemaw |
| 01:34.38 | Simca | haha you found it |
| 01:34.40 | Simca | hero |
| 01:35.22 | kd3 | someone in /2 mentioned following the paths |
| 01:35.47 | Simca | I compiled a list of all game data related to the music rolls |
| 01:35.51 | Simca | lemme share it, it might help |
| 01:36.18 | Simca | also two music rolls have tracking spells |
| 01:36.25 | Simca | Totems of the Grizzlemaw and Ghost |
| 01:36.57 | Simca | that implies they come from weird objects (without normal interactions) or from NPCs. Maybe a special NPC while dead gives Ghost in a conversation or something. |
| 01:36.58 | pompy | ..... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-boy-suspended-bringing-ring-power-school-article-1.2099103 |
| 01:47.14 | fewyn | that took forever |
| 01:47.26 | fewyn | ran the dungeon holiday thing 12 times on all my chars |
| 01:47.42 | fewyn | i don't remember dungeon queues being tha tlong previously |
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| 02:00.08 | Simca | kd3: http://www.curseforge.com/paste/pr1l0i6ehn2wudf5/ |
| 02:01.13 | Simca | 4 unused object IDs in the middle of the known used ones |
| 02:01.27 | Simca | 5 tracks still without sources |
| 02:04.18 | kd3 | ghost I've found. it's in duskwood. you have to be dead |
| 02:04.30 | Simca | NPC or object? |
| 02:04.36 | kd3 | npc |
| 02:04.40 | kd3 | http://wow.gamepedia.com/Music_Roll:_Ghost |
| 02:06.37 | Simca | I guess that leaves Angelic, Mountains, Mountains of Thunder, Tinkertown, The Zandalari, and Darkmoon Carousel |
| 02:06.40 | Simca | the last one is probably easy |
| 02:07.42 | Simca | not sure about the Tinkertown/The Zandalari one. so far the alliance and horde ones have mirrored each other, but it sounds like Dun Morogh/Gnomeregan for the Alliance one and Isle of Thunder for the Horde one |
| 02:07.55 | Simca | which is pretty dissimilar |
| 02:25.30 | kd3 | http://wow.gamepedia.com/Music_Roll:_Tinkertown |
| 02:25.35 | kd3 | duh-duh-duh-daaaah! |
| 02:32.22 | kd3 | has anyone actually killed the sha of fear on ptr yet and gotten the heart of pandaria to drop? |
| 02:34.58 | Simca | oh god damn kd3 |
| 02:35.06 | Simca | I did that with like FIFTY boxes |
| 02:35.11 | Simca | 3 of them were empty |
| 02:35.14 | kd3 | dropped in box #1 |
| 02:35.33 | Simca | even wrote a bug report about the empty boxes |
| 02:35.41 | Simca | I bet they were the music rolls |
| 02:37.01 | Simca | oh |
| 02:37.04 | Simca | I was on a horde toon |
| 02:37.12 | Simca | that's got to be why |
| 02:37.15 | Simca | derp derp |
| 02:37.16 | kd3 | probably |
| 02:37.28 | Simca | empty boxes because the item was for the wrong faction |
| 02:37.46 | Simca | damnit blizzard give me my kazoo music |
| 02:37.59 | Simca | nobody cares about troll music anyway |
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| 02:42.39 | Simca | with the current trend, it seems likely that Mountains of Thunder will be in Ulduar I guess |
| 02:42.45 | Simca | instead of Storm Peaks |
| 02:43.34 | kullervo | Ulduar still has some unfinished lore |
| 02:43.59 | kullervo | that titan must be depressed as fuck nowadays |
| 02:44.04 | Simca | I went to all the obvious Thorim-related places first, since, well, Thunder |
| 02:44.42 | kullervo | It's a Mountains of Madness reference isn't it? |
| 02:44.55 | kullervo | think of Ulduar as a location |
| 02:47.20 | Simca | still think Temple of Storms would have made more sense to put it there |
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| 03:41.57 | Simca | kd3: this chest bug is the worst |
| 03:42.12 | Simca | are you still reporting the individual problem chests? |
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| 03:42.24 | kd3 | just boss chests |
| 03:42.44 | Simca | mm |
| 03:43.08 | kd3 | hopefully that's symptomatic of an underlying issue that will get resolved |
| 03:44.03 | Simca | Kologarn and Freya (3 elders) chests are broken too |
| 03:44.24 | Simca | Thorim, both of Hodir's, and Algalon worked out |
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| 03:53.39 | pompy | i love how people think this is for real. https://www.facebook.com/events/1408763942752353/ |
| 03:53.47 | pompy | "political party" lol |
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| 04:00.05 | A-KO | welp |
| 04:00.12 | A-KO | significant lighting engine changes coming to 6.1 |
| 04:01.49 | Simca | man the PTR bug report forums are always filled with trash |
| 04:02.05 | Simca | it makes me angry and then I go and rant: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16202690683?page=1#3 |
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| 04:24.51 | Simca | kd3: nothing from an ulduar run |
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| 05:01.18 | Torhal | Neffi: 3316 lines of code now! |
| 05:02.13 | Neffi | too many! |
| 05:02.21 | Torhal | Was 3500+ though! |
| 05:02.37 | Neffi | just rm it all |
| 05:02.42 | Torhal | NO U |
| 05:02.51 | Neffi | ok, gimme ssh to your machine |
| 05:04.26 | kd3 | ouch, that was rough listening to the last wowinsider podcast |
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| 07:57.18 | Jamash | rip |
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| 09:02.52 | karl_w_w | rips Jamash |
| 09:04.34 | Trela | OMG I love lazy hardware developers with even lazier DRM. |
| 09:05.16 | Gnarfoz | you monster |
| 09:05.17 | Trela | "Man, I'm going to have to open this Android device and soldier to the flash chip." *Opens it up.* O_O *Sees Micro-SD slot with card in it.* "YESSSSSSSSSSS." |
| 09:05.25 | Gnarfoz | I, instead, love stuff without DRM. |
| 09:06.12 | Trela | This is vehicle tuning hardware. They "marry" the device to the engine computer so it can only be used on one vehicle. |
| 09:09.05 | Semlar | my favorite are SD cards that have smaller SD cards glued into a larger plastic case |
| 09:09.20 | Trela | Nesting Cards. |
| 09:09.31 | Semlar | because they're evidently cheaper to mass produce |
| 09:09.37 | nevcairiel | thats pretty common, easier to just build one type |
| 09:09.55 | Neffi | yo dawg |
| 09:11.57 | Trela | FAT16. This can not get any easier to mess with. |
| 09:43.11 | Gnarfoz | Trela: still: no DRM > crappy DRM ^^ |
| 09:43.53 | nevcairiel | actually thats debatable .. if its a crap DRM they may feel like they are secure, if its no DRM they may think they need to add one! |
| 09:47.20 | Trela | Gnarfoz: Yeah. |
| 09:47.32 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: silence! |
| 09:47.36 | Gnarfoz | stop giving them ideas |
| 09:47.53 | Gnarfoz | anyone know if the MS WMA DRM was cracked at some point? |
| 09:48.14 | Trela | The car ECU/PCM tuning world is full of this. Basically they make a device, but without the DRM one person could use the device on their vehicle and their friend's vehicles. Lost profit for the company. No theft has gone on, but they lost out on sales. |
| 09:48.20 | Gnarfoz | I need to liberate mom's older music downloads, the shop's licence renewal page doesn't work anymore |
| 10:03.03 | Industrial | marches agains DRM |
| 10:03.12 | Industrial | votes pirate party |
| 10:03.25 | mikma | calm down and puff some magic dragon, industrial |
| 10:04.01 | nevcairiel | Gnarfoz: the DRM is solid by itself, the only way to get around it was by using a tool that hijacks some part of the windows media player, but that stopped working a long time ago .. so unless that PC has XP on it with some mildly older version of WMP ... |
| 10:05.01 | Industrial | I personally have never owned a piece of software containing DRM. Hardware maybe but at the moment I don't :) |
| 10:05.18 | nevcairiel | thats probably a lie |
| 10:05.23 | Industrial | I dont even want a piece of hardware that comes with extra "drivers" :P |
| 10:05.25 | nevcairiel | you would be surprised how many thigns contain drm |
| 10:05.56 | Industrial | I just want one I can plug and works, if that makes it not be a logitech but a 15$ sweex headset then im fine with it |
| 10:07.00 | Industrial | no coupons, airmiles, tv, sugar |
| 10:07.18 | Industrial | ok back to work! |
| 10:17.49 | Mr_Rabies | logitech devices tend to work pretty well out of the box, but the software is pretty useful |
| 10:18.02 | Mr_Rabies | (except when it's bugged out like the current version of setpoint) |
| 10:18.33 | Mr_Rabies | setpoint on anything prior to win8/8.1 (and maybe even those, i haven't tested) has some really unpredictable scrolling issues |
| 10:18.37 | Industrial | what does the oculus rift cost? |
| 10:18.47 | Industrial | oh, 350 |
| 10:19.05 | Mr_Rabies | sometimes it scrolls the set amount of lines you set |
| 10:19.09 | Mr_Rabies | sometimes it scrolls half a page |
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| 10:21.44 | nevcairiel | i havent installed setpoint for years |
| 10:23.35 | Mr_Rabies | it's really useful for configuring the extra buttons, DPI, etc |
| 10:25.03 | Mr_Rabies | man i can't get over how chill the new JoJo ending theme is |
| 10:25.15 | Mr_Rabies | i know that's insanely off-topic but |
| 10:25.37 | Mr_Rabies | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA1ixlGKu50 so chill |
| 10:26.45 | Mr_Rabies | it's a lot lazier animation wise than the previous one but it's so chill i don't mind |
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| 11:59.08 | karl_w_w | you see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name |
| 11:59.16 | karl_w_w | it felt good to be out of the rain |
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| 13:07.15 | karl_w_w | i have a question, when instance servers are down and you go to your garrison and everyone is there, how does that happen? |
| 13:07.33 | karl_w_w | cos the non-instanced garrison is identical to my garrison |
| 13:08.25 | nevcairiel | everyone sees their own, its just some sort of terrain phasing |
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| 13:48.00 | Lopeppeppy | Snowmageddon!!! |
| 13:49.25 | haste | one CENTIMETER of snow later |
| 14:04.03 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: hmmm /sadface. I still have the old DRM keystore and such (because the old w/ XP on it is in the new PC), but the hardware is different... so it's kind of useless. :( |
| 14:04.50 | Gnarfoz | nevcairiel: and WMP lost the ability to back up/restore DRM w/ WMP 11 or so, but even on XP my mom hat WMP 12 |
| 14:05.10 | Gnarfoz | not that I ever made a backup, at least I don't think I did |
| 14:11.07 | Fisker | hugtackles Lopeppeppy |
| 14:18.03 | Lopeppeppy | Good morning, Fiskerboo. |
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| 15:30.03 | Fisker | hi Ressy |
| 15:31.52 | Ressy | hi |
| 15:43.27 | karl_w_w | stupid plugin-container keeps hanging |
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| 15:56.17 | mikma | shirik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkdNmuHUrd8 oh yes. you'll love it. |
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| 16:16.54 | karl_w_w | good old google |
| 16:17.06 | karl_w_w | 4 year old story top of google news |
| 16:34.25 | Neffi | include the year in your searc |
| 16:35.39 | karl_w_w | no search |
| 16:35.44 | karl_w_w | top of google news |
| 16:36.15 | Neffi | why are you using gnews anyway? |
| 16:36.20 | Neffi | I didnt even know that was still around |
| 16:36.39 | karl_w_w | huh? |
| 16:37.40 | kd3 | reader is dead, news is still kicking |
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| 17:12.19 | jleclanche | Im looking for an article that was on HN a few months back. It was written by an ex-yahoo employee who then was one of the leads on google glass. He was recounting the pre-prototype arguments brin and the others in the team had about the background color of the glass HUD. |
| 17:12.48 | jleclanche | brin believed it had to be red... they didn't get anywhere until they actually built prototypes. I can't find the fucking thing. |
| 17:14.22 | Dagmar | Well, it's obvious. |
| 17:14.47 | Dagmar | It has to be red because otherwise issuing a "KILL ALL HUMANS" order wouldn't look right. |
| 17:22.56 | karl_w_w | i didn't even know harvey norman had articles |
| 17:31.56 | Ackis | I was talking to some friends online and they kept on referring to a game called "Daisy" - had no clue what they were talking about for days until I was finally given the spelling of the game "Day Z" :'( |
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| 17:33.10 | nevcairiel | you didnt miss anything either way, its just not that good |
| 17:34.21 | karl_w_w | didn't you realise when they described the game as an endless running simulator? |
| 17:35.02 | Ackis | well when they mentioned Daisy and then talked about growing crops and fertilizing things my mind was a bit skewed |
| 17:41.32 | karl_w_w | #gamergate as a harrassment campaign: https://i.imgur.com/BPDprso.png |
| 17:42.29 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~anything@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 17:44.15 | Torhal | Ackis: Did you get notified of this? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-02-02-raptr-warns-users-of-security-breach |
| 17:44.33 | Ressy | I didn't get an email. |
| 17:44.34 | Ackis | Torhal: Yeah I did |
| 17:44.40 | Torhal | I didn't |
| 17:45.00 | Dagmar | karl_w_w: Bookmarked |
| 17:45.36 | Fisker | I think I used raptr once |
| 17:45.53 | Dagmar | By those stats I got wildly more death threats on the radio |
| 17:46.19 | Dagmar | Maybe 8,000-10,000 people listening and I got about one a month |
| 17:47.11 | Fisker | She's excellent at manipulation |
| 17:47.51 | Dagmar | It all comes down to, I think, whether or not the average person has any experience with addressing the unwashed masses. |
| 17:47.54 | Dagmar | ...which they don't. |
| 17:48.10 | Dagmar | Otherwise they'd understand that the occasional death threat just means _the microphone works_ |
| 17:48.48 | Dagmar | She acts like her "phone" is just ringing off the hook |
| 17:58.42 | karl_w_w | no but she's being attacked because she's a woman Dagmar |
| 17:58.53 | karl_w_w | not cos of her stupid opinions or ignorant lies |
| 18:06.29 | Dagmar | I thought it was because she's an idiot, personally. |
| 18:14.54 | phelps | man I'm so glad they nailed this release :| |
| 18:22.55 | Neffi | o.O |
| 18:24.13 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 18:24.35 | Dagmar | I usually don't even look until like, Wednesday |
| 18:30.07 | kd3 | wow, the worldserver lag trying to kill rukhmar |
| 18:32.51 | znf | oh right, new world boss |
| 18:32.59 | kd3 | and double gold |
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| 18:49.05 | pompy | http://www.twitch.tv/towelliee he's having a fun time trying to kill Rukhmar |
| 18:52.29 | pompy | world server down |
| 18:53.12 | nebula169 | @BlizzardCS 6 minutes ago We're looking into these issues, folks. RT @belrexy: @BlizzardCS Rukhmar is causing some major server issues.. |
| 18:53.27 | nevcairiel | ah, US realms beta testing the launch again for us |
| 18:53.41 | Dagmar | You're welcome |
| 18:53.46 | Shirik | I don't even know why it's like that |
| 18:53.55 | Shirik | I mean, the US is the last group of people on the timeline of a day |
| 18:54.03 | Shirik | shouldn't it be EU first? |
| 18:54.08 | nevcairiel | we're a day later |
| 18:54.11 | kd3 | nope. eu weekly resets are tomorrow |
| 18:54.16 | Shirik | that's not what I mean |
| 18:54.22 | Shirik | I mean why isn't it just consistent across the world |
| 18:54.29 | Shirik | and then follows the time zones |
| 18:54.44 | nevcairiel | maybe the main devs want to be awake when it happens? |
| 18:54.53 | Dagmar | nevcairiel++ |
| 18:55.03 | Shirik | so you should do it at 5 AM then? |
| 18:55.12 | Dagmar | LOL |
| 18:55.19 | Dagmar | Ask any ten admins that |
| 18:55.33 | Dagmar | ...but do it with witnesses present. |
| 18:55.54 | Shirik | oh come on I bet 9/10 software developers are awake at ... ok 5 AM might be a little late. But 2 AM sure. |
| 18:56.14 | Dagmar | Yeah but it's admins that have to make it happen |
| 18:56.18 | nevcairiel | doing all at the same time (or day at least) might also put some extra stress on those people, having to deal with 3 regions at once instead of one at a time |
| 18:56.46 | Shirik | since starting Eve I've been kinda impressed at how they handle server mechanics |
| 18:56.55 | Shirik | unfortunately it can't really translate into WoW but it's neat their take on things |
| 18:57.46 | Dagmar | Asking admins to be at their most alert just after Souls Midnight is asking to get knifed |
| 18:57.58 | zenzelezz | Souls Midnight? |
| 18:58.09 | Dagmar | The darkest time of the night |
| 18:58.22 | Dagmar | Usually somewhere around 3-ish |
| 18:58.40 | zenzelezz | everyone knows sysadmins are nocturnal |
| 18:58.55 | Dagmar | THey're not _that_ nocturnal when they're also being asked to keep daytime hours |
| 19:01.29 | Dagmar | A major Change that happens at midnight only happens at midnight because the administrators have had time to plan and prepare, and very little decision-making happens then for a reason |
| 19:01.58 | Dagmar | They'll be on-site/on-call in case something goes wrong and things have to be backed out. |
| 19:02.22 | Dagmar | You will seldom find admins willing to make a change to the game plan at 2am. it's do the thing that was planned or revert everything. |
| 19:02.37 | Dagmar | ...becuase making changes to the game plan at 2am is fail. |
| 19:02.40 | foxlit | karl_w_w: #gamergate as a harrassment campaign: https://i.imgur.com/BPDprso.png << why did you link this, karl_w_w? I clicked it by accident, and then spent five minutes grating teeth at how horribly misrepresented every bloody thing in it is. |
| 19:02.49 | Dagmar | 1. You're not likely to get managerial signoff ati 2am |
| 19:03.06 | Dagmar | 2. Managers will hang you out to dry if something goes wrong without managerial signoff. |
| 19:03.11 | Dagmar | 3. Managers being up at 3am. LOL |
| 19:03.23 | Stanzilla | jleclanche: sad about mediacrush :( |
| 19:03.32 | jleclanche | Stanzilla: aye. |
| 19:03.40 | jleclanche | Stanzilla: Im trying to take over the project |
| 19:03.52 | Stanzilla | oh god |
| 19:04.01 | Stanzilla | do you really want to pay for all of the servers? |
| 19:04.02 | jleclanche | Stanzilla: I want to make a volatile media bin out of it |
| 19:04.04 | jleclanche | no |
| 19:04.11 | jleclanche | the open source project, not the site |
| 19:04.16 | Stanzilla | ah |
| 19:04.22 | Stanzilla | what is a volatile media bin |
| 19:04.46 | jleclanche | temporary storage, like a pastebin (and I want to add text caps to it) |
| 19:04.48 | nevcairiel | a temporary media storage that forgets things over time |
| 19:04.53 | Dagmar | Hell, I was lazy about eating lunch and it's caused me to have two rounds of wondering why the code changes I just made didn't manifest, just because I forgot to push them to the damn phone |
| 19:04.54 | nevcairiel | that would be my interpretation |
| 19:04.55 | Stanzilla | ah |
| 19:05.11 | karl_w_w | https://volafile.io/ |
| 19:05.28 | karl_w_w | foxlit, because it's fun and exciting |
| 19:05.45 | jleclanche | i remeber that site, it was on hn |
| 19:05.51 | jleclanche | was actually brilliant |
| 19:07.02 | Dagmar | Wotcha wanna do is make a site that encodes everything into DNS entries |
| 19:07.14 | Dagmar | ...that way you can leverage DNS caching for storage. |
| 19:07.25 | kd3 | winces |
| 19:07.29 | karl_w_w | lol |
| 19:07.35 | Dagmar | ...and really revitalize the assassin-for-hire market at the same time. |
| 19:08.05 | karl_w_w | you have a talent for evil plans Dagmar |
| 19:08.12 | karl_w_w | do you work at EA? |
| 19:08.13 | Dagmar | I knonw. |
| 19:08.31 | Dagmar | No, I wouldn't work for EA. They engage in evil for _money_. |
| 19:08.38 | kd3 | in completely unrelated news, yay! a new ARIA something (ova/series) |
| 19:08.42 | Dagmar | I only do evil for luls |
| 19:11.15 | zenzelezz | ARIA?? |
| 19:12.15 | znf | People still report that my addon is causing them to not gain follower XP |
| 19:12.18 | znf | I give up |
| 19:13.09 | Shirik | lmao |
| 19:13.29 | Shirik | well why haven't you just inverted the logic yet? |
| 19:13.32 | Shirik | Give people EXTRA follower xp |
| 19:13.45 | znf | I'm not even touching those things... |
| 19:14.32 | znf | And as others have pointed out, an addon shouldn't be able to stop the XP gain from happening |
| 19:14.47 | Shirik | obviously a conspiracy |
| 19:20.21 | kd3 | zenzelezz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aria_%28manga%29 |
| 19:20.52 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 19:27.22 | Arrowmaster | i should make an offer on this http://dayton.craigslist.org/sys/4837122799.html |
| 19:27.35 | Arrowmaster | dont really know how much its all worth though |
| 19:27.39 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: ^^ |
| 19:30.24 | Dagmar | I'd say check eBay |
| 19:30.52 | Dagmar | For sure you don't want to know what they cost new, but 3/4 of the going rate on eBay will probably get them if the dude is just saying "make an offer" |
| 19:31.07 | karl_w_w | http://i.4cdn.org/b/1422989757325.gif Cairenn |
| 19:31.37 | kd3 | one of my parents' cats loves to do that |
| 19:32.32 | Dagmar | Better watch that. Soon they'll be wearin' pants and wanting to vote. |
| 19:33.41 | Arrowmaster | Dagmar: yeah im seeing some cheap ebay prices, im thinking $100 for starting offer wouldnt be too bad |
| 19:35.16 | znf | lol @ Tinder |
| 19:35.26 | znf | asking people for money for more "Likes" |
| 19:35.27 | znf | wth |
| 19:36.30 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: It can't hurt to try at least |
| 19:36.58 | Arrowmaster | ive decided im going to finally get my ccent this year |
| 19:37.26 | Arrowmaster | i did all the ccna training back in 2004 but never took the test |
| 19:37.55 | Arrowmaster | ok got head out |
| 19:41.01 | Cairenn | karl_w_w: heh |
| 19:49.15 | zenzelezz | http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/02/02/ntsb-selfies-brought-down-plane-killing-2/22781911/ - well that would suck |
| 19:49.49 | *** part/#wowuidev phelps (phelps@alt.bz) |
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| 19:56.50 | fewyn | sigh duck you cross realm zones |
| 19:57.11 | fewyn | i was zoning into kun lai and silverdragon says a warbringer is up but as i get closer i cross realm and it disappears |
| 19:59.00 | Fisker | duck it indeed |
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| 20:08.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
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| 20:27.59 | g0urra | http://blizzardwatch.com/ |
| 20:29.30 | Fisker | wowinsider? |
| 20:29.34 | g0urra | yep |
| 20:29.47 | foxlit | from one horrible name to another. |
| 20:30.44 | Simca | to be fair wowinsider made more sense when they had wow.com |
| 20:31.18 | Fisker | Why not call it overwatch? |
| 20:31.20 | kd3 | is aol even using wow.com for anything other than a glorified google search? |
| 20:31.23 | Simca | no |
| 20:31.52 | Simca | maybe people are dumb and the glorified google search gives more traffic, idk |
| 20:38.16 | Simca | based on the publically available stats for it it looks like it's purely a clickbait domain for people that meant to go somewhere else |
| 20:38.47 | Simca | AOL is ever classy |
| 20:39.45 | zenzelezz | "wowinsider" was a reasonable name as far as I could tell |
| 20:40.02 | Simca | the url was less reasonable |
| 20:40.10 | zenzelezz | that I won't argue |
| 20:44.19 | zenzelezz | I'm not sure if I'll actually miss anything, but I did use to visit massively occasionally |
| 20:44.28 | zenzelezz | typically on my mobile in the bathroom |
| 20:53.05 | *** join/#wowuidev Semlar (~chatzilla@50-89-204-151.res.bhn.net) |
| 20:56.13 | foxlit | zenzelezz: except it implies association with blizzard, and actually collided with a blizzard feature at one point. |
| 20:59.51 | znf | foxlit, +is there any possible way an addon could stop followers from getting XP at the end of a mission? |
| 21:00.10 | Semlar | :| |
| 21:00.20 | znf | what? >_< |
| 21:01.41 | znf | my users are still complaining! |
| 21:01.53 | zenzelezz | foxlit: I'm not sure I agree. I suppose it's the "insider"-part you feel that makes it such? |
| 21:04.11 | Simca | blizzard used to publish a monthly (or biweekly? I forget) newsletter called Blizzard Insider i think is his point |
| 21:04.56 | zenzelezz | how long ago was that? I don't recall that name |
| 21:05.10 | Fisker | I think they still send those don't they? |
| 21:05.15 | zenzelezz | I seem to recall a watercooler |
| 21:05.23 | Simca | I don't think so, Fisker |
| 21:05.28 | Fisker | I think so |
| 21:05.35 | Simca | I've been signed up since like... 2001 |
| 21:05.36 | Simca | iirc |
| 21:06.26 | Simca | my inbox search results: http://i.imgur.com/D0qdKKt.png |
| 21:07.01 | g0urra | the official sites aren't as updated http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/community/insider/ http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/community/insider/ |
| 21:07.25 | Simca | that's kind of sad |
| 21:07.30 | g0urra | "At midnight on May 15, Diablo® III hits shelves at retail locations throughout the world" |
| 21:09.03 | Fisker | You're right Simca |
| 21:09.11 | Fisker | RIP Blizzard Insider |
| 21:10.15 | Simca | it looks like the frequency towards the end tended to be "whenever we feel like it" |
| 21:10.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Arrowmaster (~Arrowmast@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ResponsibleForEverythingAndNothing/Arrowmaster) |
| 21:28.54 | foxlit | znf: there's no way to be certain while concluding "no" |
| 21:32.32 | foxlit | it shouldn't be possible, but software is not without flaws, so certainty is difficult. If I were you, and it really bothered me, I'd log the old/new xp/level during missions and throw an error/ask people to attach SVs if things don't match up. |
| 21:32.49 | foxlit | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1RxgRzYqX8 << see for example: race condition. |
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| 22:06.28 | *** join/#wowuidev Kowh (~bob913@135-23-187-234.cpe.pppoe.ca) |
| 22:07.09 | zenzelezz | well now... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/02/league-of-legends-e-sports-organizer-puts-limits-on-lgtbq-participants/ |
| 22:10.07 | *** join/#wowuidev cawaker (~textual@69.197.63.142) |
| 22:14.03 | Simca | lol |
| 22:14.21 | Simca | they chose the wrong esport to screw with - riot games will slap them so hard their head will spin |
| 22:16.43 | nevcairiel | being gay makes you a better player? |
| 22:17.46 | fewyn | http://blizzardwatch.com/ seems to be live now |
| 22:17.50 | nebula169 | they don't want the gays hitting on everyone at the event, nevcairiel |
| 22:18.00 | fewyn | the site design doesn't look as bad as wowinsider thankfully? |
| 22:18.05 | fewyn | still a lot of wasted space imo |
| 22:18.20 | nevcairiel | why is everyone so excited about wowinsider coming back, they werent a good site before, why now :p |
| 22:18.24 | Unkle | I think the unstated but assumed things is "being a man makes you a better player" and that you shouldn't have "men" on your team in their 'feminine' competition. Which makes them big frelling idjits. |
| 22:18.26 | fewyn | eh |
| 22:18.28 | fewyn | they weren't bad |
| 22:18.39 | fewyn | i'm not going to say they were awesome or anything |
| 22:18.48 | fewyn | i liked some of the people who worked there though |
| 22:18.51 | nebula169 | Unkle: doesn't explain why they're limiting lesbians |
| 22:19.40 | nevcairiel | male organizers cant successfully hit on lesbians? |
| 22:20.35 | Unkle | nebula169: because they're BIG FUCKING MORONS who wanted to do "ladies" gaming in a creepy fucking way while pretending it was about inclusion. |
| 22:26.13 | Unkle | Oh, sorry. I'm not always so strident. |
| 22:27.04 | Fisker | :o |
| 22:29.06 | Simca | The only thing that makes even a tiny bit of sense is that they're trying to base policies off of the effects of hormones on the brain, and known theories regarding LGBT brain development/hormone levels in utero. |
| 22:29.49 | Simca | The problem of course being that all of that research is still in extremely early stages and should never be used to base policy |
| 22:30.21 | Simca | (and yes, there would have to be the underlying assumption that male hormones make you better at gaming) |
| 22:30.32 | Simca | (which is also not remotely proven) |
| 22:30.36 | Fisker | What can they say, they're just more progressive! |
| 22:34.12 | Mr_Rabies | the fact that they're splitting leagues into genders is pretty laughable too |
| 22:35.08 | Simca | as offensive as it sounds, it's a "kiddie pool" type of approach |
| 22:35.41 | Mr_Rabies | like, i can understand why they split physical sports by sex but there's nothing that makes either gender inherently better or worse at mental tasks like gaming |
| 22:35.41 | Simca | the female gaming community is so small for some games that having a female-only league to foster growth isn't always a bad idea |
| 22:36.47 | Mr_Rabies | it's basically saying "girls play in the kiddie pool, everyone else go here" |
| 22:37.13 | nevcairiel | not really, unless they also have different rules |
| 22:37.30 | nevcairiel | if its the same rules and whatnot, its the same kind of pool, just a separate one :p |
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| 22:37.31 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 22:37.44 | Fisker | Why not Mr_Rabies ? |
| 22:37.50 | Mr_Rabies | why not what |
| 22:38.06 | Fisker | Why are men differently physically but not mentally? |
| 22:38.12 | Mr_Rabies | because biology |
| 22:38.46 | Mr_Rabies | there are mental differences between men and women but when it comes to gaming they're on effectively equal ground |
| 22:39.17 | Mr_Rabies | but we're sexually dimorphic and our physical differences are pretty well proven |
| 22:39.50 | Fisker | Well APM's are also physical in one way or another |
| 22:40.09 | Mr_Rabies | eh, dexterity, not strength or stamina really |
| 22:40.16 | Simca | meh this is a MOBA |
| 22:40.23 | Simca | that is never the determining factor in skill anyway |
| 22:40.31 | Simca | in SC2, maybe |
| 22:40.34 | Mr_Rabies | men and women are similarly dextrous but men are definitely stronger and have more stamina on average, especially on the professional level |
| 22:41.42 | Mr_Rabies | i just think it's dumb, nevcairiel, i don't much see the point in men's only or women's only leagues where there's really no difference |
| 22:41.55 | Mr_Rabies | of course people are welcome to make them but i don't really see it as necessary |
| 22:43.28 | Simca | like I said, the point is primarily to grow the community, rather than be the absolute top competition. at least in SC2, there are female leagues, but the main leagues have no gender restrictions and people of both genders enter. |
| 22:43.31 | Fisker | I'm not sure of anything other than it's a damn mess we got ourselves into |
| 22:44.53 | Mr_Rabies | people are welcome to exclude anyone they want from their private event, but i still wouldn't personally involve myself with an event that did |
| 22:45.50 | Fisker | Yeah |
| 22:47.09 | Fisker | I think it's better if we try not to let gender get in the way of participation then again I really would want that generally |
| 22:47.16 | Fisker | But it's not an easy thing to do |
| 22:47.48 | Fisker | Good night though |
| 22:48.07 | Arrowmaster | the only thing that really would make any sense to me would be a general for everybody league and a female league just for publicity and promoting ladies in gaming, let the ladies enter both at the same time if they want too |
| 22:48.24 | Mr_Rabies | how about a male league? |
| 22:48.29 | Arrowmaster | no |
| 22:48.43 | Mr_Rabies | that's pretty sexist :v |
| 22:50.05 | Arrowmaster | the general league should be for everyone, do smaller promotional leagues for minorities but cisgender straight males make up the majority by a long margin and should not get their own private league |
| 22:50.15 | Mr_Rabies | lol |
| 22:50.15 | Mr_Rabies | ok |
| 22:50.38 | Arrowmaster | at least nothing with comparable rewards |
| 22:50.41 | Mr_Rabies | as soon as you start excluding, you open up every form of exclusion |
| 22:50.42 | Gnarfoz | poppy seed & marzipan yoghurt... yum, almost too sweet :D |
| 22:51.39 | Arrowmaster | Mr_Rabies: im only saying exclude the majority from having its own league, if the majority changes then that group can have a private league |
| 22:51.51 | Mr_Rabies | i disagree |
| 22:51.56 | Mr_Rabies | anyone can have a private league |
| 22:52.11 | Arrowmaster | yes ofcourse |
| 22:52.44 | Arrowmaster | but major events should not pander to letting the majority exclude minorities |
| 22:53.19 | Mr_Rabies | i can't say i agree but i'm not gonna start that fight on here again |
| 22:53.51 | Mr_Rabies | excluding anyone is on the same moral ground as excluding anyone else |
| 22:54.01 | Arrowmaster | the major prizes and attention should be on an open league that anybody can enter |
| 22:54.08 | Simca | majorities excluding minorities has been the basis for discrimination by the masses against a minority group for all of history |
| 22:54.09 | Arrowmaster | can we just agree on that? |
| 22:54.24 | Simca | so doing that again for any reason sounds terrible |
| 22:54.35 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think there's a history of people excluding people from competiton, other than minorities excluding majorities |
| 22:54.37 | Simca | I think most logical people realize having a 'no black people allowed' event is fucking awful |
| 22:54.46 | Mr_Rabies | at least in gaming |
| 22:55.09 | Mr_Rabies | i don't think it's any worse than having a "no white people allowed" event, Simca |
| 22:55.22 | Arrowmaster | yet they have those |
| 22:55.34 | Mr_Rabies | exclusion is inherently bad, no matter who is affected |
| 22:55.49 | Simca | I agree it isn't ideal |
| 22:55.53 | Arrowmaster | agreed |
| 22:56.05 | Stanzilla | I love the "no people allowed" events |
| 22:56.19 | Mr_Rabies | making a "no x allowed event" means it's okay to make an "x only allowed" event |
| 22:56.38 | Simca | but fostering growth of a specific minority that is under-represented in a community is not a bad cause |
| 22:56.39 | Arrowmaster | meat popsicles only |
| 22:56.46 | Mr_Rabies | even if x is the majority |
| 22:56.48 | Simca | in a perfect world it would be morally and ethically wrong |
| 22:57.06 | Mr_Rabies | is being exclusive really fostering growth though? |
| 22:57.20 | Simca | yes |
| 22:57.28 | Mr_Rabies | i disagree |
| 22:57.56 | Simca | more so than a typical tournament where the minority is so underrepresented, nobody from that minority would ever be showcased at all |
| 22:58.25 | Gnarfoz | how about you become worth showcasing on your own merits? |
| 22:58.34 | Gnarfoz | instead of because you belong to minority X |
| 22:58.47 | Mr_Rabies | so there's nothing in place that prohibits that minority from being represented, i don't see the issue |
| 22:58.48 | Simca | women make up 51% of the world's population and like 0.2% of the world's pro SC2 gamers. it is worth trying to grow that number. |
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| 22:59.40 | Gnarfoz | by saying they need help to do that you're already belittling them! :P |
| 22:59.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Thunderbi@2601:f:580:74da:dfe:d50a:b610:7c9) |
| 23:00.11 | Simca | no, it is society that pushes males and females towards inherently different paths, for the most part |
| 23:00.31 | Mr_Rabies | neither path really pushes people towards video games though |
| 23:01.05 | Gnarfoz | you're society, stop pushing! |
| 23:01.12 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:01.39 | Gnarfoz | well at least I assum you're society. is the fact we're talking proof of that? |
| 23:01.54 | Simca | if the divergence of male and female interests at a young age is a zipper, i'm trying to pull the zipper up. |
| 23:01.56 | Gnarfoz | puts Torhal into a league of his own |
| 23:02.33 | Arrowmaster | men in generally can be disgustingly sexist towards women which is why i can see some wanting a female only league to get some new pros acustom to the atmosphere before throwing them in with the animals |
| 23:02.40 | Mr_Rabies | please |
| 23:02.48 | Mr_Rabies | close the tumblr :( |
| 23:02.54 | Mr_Rabies | it's not healthy for your brain |
| 23:03.30 | awestroke | harassment of women online is real |
| 23:03.34 | Simca | Mr_Rabies: be a woman, then leave a imgur comment or youtube comment. then watch your private messages. |
| 23:03.41 | Arrowmaster | im serious, we had a guy permanently banned from the bar i was at lastnight for his behavior after being told once |
| 23:03.45 | Simca | online harassment isn't fiction |
| 23:04.03 | Simca | you can't make it go away by putting your fingers in your ears and yelling LA LA LA LA |
| 23:04.09 | Mr_Rabies | harassment of everyone is real, jerks will take advantage of any perceived weakness in someone's armor to attack them |
| 23:04.19 | Dagmar | Mr_Rabies++ |
| 23:04.51 | awestroke | not nearly as much |
| 23:04.58 | Arrowmaster | unfortunately sterilizing the jerks isnt an option |
| 23:05.05 | Gnarfoz | clearly it is |
| 23:05.07 | Gnarfoz | just unpopular |
| 23:05.18 | Dagmar | Do you have any idea how often people get the idea that I'm a girl? |
| 23:05.21 | Simca | everyone has the potential to be harassed online. women are just much much more likely to be at the receiving end. |
| 23:05.33 | Mr_Rabies | not true at all |
| 23:05.35 | Gnarfoz | you use a womans' name, it's not that surprising, Dagmar |
| 23:05.42 | Simca | yes, it is blantantly statistically true |
| 23:05.55 | Gnarfoz | (woman's? women's? women's.) |
| 23:06.11 | Dagmar | It's nothing like Sarkeesian is makin' it out to be |
| 23:06.33 | Simca | ignore Sarkeesian. talking about her makes her important and relevant. |
| 23:06.45 | awestroke | what do you base that on dagmar |
| 23:07.18 | awestroke | 4chan rants? |
| 23:07.19 | Dagmar | That I actually have some experience with addressing large groups of assholes |
| 23:07.28 | Dagmar | Seven years of late-night radio. |
| 23:07.34 | Arrowmaster | duh you work at a college |
| 23:07.50 | Dagmar | ...and a number of public lectures. |
| 23:08.16 | Dagmar | It's a simple fact that undiagnosed and undermedicated schizophrenics exist |
| 23:08.35 | Dagmar | There's a couple of them in every 1,000 people. |
| 23:08.51 | Simca | sure, but the logic some people like to use: "everyone is represented equally everywhere. the world is perfect. no minority is unfairly treated ever." |
| 23:08.54 | Simca | is bullshit |
| 23:08.55 | Dagmar | Take a guess how many you'll reach if you say something a million people hear |
| 23:09.06 | Simca | equally as bullshit as Sarkeesian's views |
| 23:09.30 | Arrowmaster | i dont even know who this Sarkeesian is |
| 23:09.48 | Mr_Rabies | just a lady out to make a buck from gullible folks on the internet |
| 23:10.05 | Dagmar | That lazy woman who did the paper essentially claiming video games are irretrievably sexist |
| 23:10.11 | Simca | radical feminist, gets lots of undeserved attention by making clickbait claims |
| 23:10.15 | awestroke | could you explain why sarkeesian is wrong about being harassed? |
| 23:10.35 | Mr_Rabies | i can't blame her, she started a fad and i'd cash in on it just as hard as her |
| 23:11.01 | Unkle | Wow, that's the shittiest misrepresentation of the situation I've ever seen. |
| 23:11.04 | Mr_Rabies | as long as her views don't go too far we'll be fine |
| 23:11.20 | awestroke | unkle: please explain |
| 23:11.26 | Gnarfoz | I thought the whole thing was about the conflict of interest in game reviewers reviewing "indie" games made by people they know/are involved with/are not "independent" of? or is that a different topic |
| 23:11.40 | Simca | Gnarfoz: it was about that for 2 days |
| 23:11.43 | Simca | then people forgot |
| 23:11.52 | Arrowmaster | people do that |
| 23:11.58 | Mr_Rabies | sarkeesian doesn't deserve the threats against her or anything, but unfortunately being famous and making -any- kind of clickbait content will lead to that |
| 23:12.02 | Gnarfoz | and spun it somewhere else because there was attention there to be redirected? |
| 23:12.10 | Simca | yep, basically |
| 23:12.30 | Unkle | She did a series of YouTube videos about default sexism in video games. She ran a Kickstarter to do a documentary. She's not starting a 'fad' - she's just advocating for less gender sterotyping in video games. |
| 23:12.34 | Mr_Rabies | honestly, just being famous on the internet will lead to harassment/threats |
| 23:12.50 | Arrowmaster | oh that kickstarter |
| 23:12.55 | Arrowmaster | didnt that turn out very badly |
| 23:13.00 | Dagmar | AGain, Mr_Rabies says precisely fact |
| 23:13.04 | Unkle | And as a result, she's been pretty throughly deluged on social media by people who claim she's fucking Female Hitler or other similar claims. |
| 23:13.14 | Gnarfoz | well, is she? |
| 23:13.16 | Unkle | Arrowmaster: It got funded I think. |
| 23:13.26 | Simca | Gnarfoz: she's not that bad |
| 23:13.26 | Mr_Rabies | she's not female hitler, she's just grasping at fame as hard as she can |
| 23:13.31 | Arrowmaster | i meant the resulting documentary |
| 23:13.43 | Gnarfoz | Merkel is on the way out, we could use a strong female successor! :D |
| 23:13.44 | Unkle | No, she's not. She's just not backing down from the idea that women should get better representation in video games. |
| 23:13.48 | Unkle | Arrowmaster: I don't know. |
| 23:13.50 | Dagmar | She wildly overstates the level of harassment as well as misrepresents it's reason |
| 23:14.00 | Simca | Unkle: the problem is that she goes too far and it does far more damage to the cause than good. |
| 23:14.22 | Simca | which is why I think she truly doesn't care |
| 23:14.25 | Simca | at this point |
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| 23:14.37 | Unkle | Simca: I disagree. Ask anyone on the short end of the stick what 'too far' means. |
| 23:14.42 | Gnarfoz | her next kickstarter is for a game, then, I assume? you're not going to change the world by screaming loudly (on the internet) |
| 23:14.52 | awestroke | if it was a male, would you still call it "grasping for fame"? also, do you think she finds this "fame" (rape&death threats) appealing? |
| 23:15.01 | Dagmar | Oh hell yes I woulld |
| 23:15.09 | Mr_Rabies | i would call it grasping for fame, yes |
| 23:15.15 | Mr_Rabies | absolutely |
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| 23:15.29 | Mr_Rabies | that's the thing though, unless you're spectacularly lucky |
| 23:15.32 | Mr_Rabies | you HAVE to grasp for fame |
| 23:16.01 | Dagmar | ...but no one forces anyone to do it by deliberately misrepresenting things. |
| 23:16.05 | Mr_Rabies | many of my favorite youtube content creators had to grasp for fame at one point in their lives |
| 23:16.08 | Arrowmaster | the problem with mob mentality/popularity rule |
| 23:16.15 | Simca | Unkle: the backlash from her posts at this point is far more intense than any positive impact |
| 23:16.54 | Mr_Rabies | i personally have moved way far away from issues i once supported to rethink my position for a while |
| 23:17.13 | Mr_Rabies | various LGBTQ issues, etc |
| 23:17.14 | Unkle | Simca: It's cliche of me to make the comparison, but that's like saying MLK caused backlash and obviously didn't care about black people any more. |
| 23:17.17 | Unkle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q |
| 23:17.20 | foxlit | where is this deliberate misrepresentation, anyway? |
| 23:17.31 | Simca | it's not very similar, Unkle |
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| 23:17.44 | Simca | at this point we're not talking about civil rights, we're talking about changing society's perception of sex and the stereotypical gender identities. that isn't something you can force like you can force a court or Congress to do something. |
| 23:17.52 | Mr_Rabies | if anything, making it a minefield to write a female character in a game is gonna make them LESS represented |
| 23:17.54 | Simca | the whole of society needs to change and that is a very gradual process. |
| 23:18.09 | Gnarfoz | doubtful it's going to happen by screaming loudly |
| 23:18.17 | Mr_Rabies | "i could make this character a woman, but i may draw the ire of tumblr, eh i'll just make it a man" |
| 23:18.52 | foxlit | (and is "screaming loudly" a fair description of what's actually going on?) |
| 23:19.04 | Mr_Rabies | it has to happen naturally, it can't be forced |
| 23:19.05 | Dagmar | Pretty much. |
| 23:19.09 | awestroke | yeah women should be quiet and stop making a fuss, then maybe they can get what the want, if they behave |
| 23:19.17 | Dagmar | She's stirred up the Special Snowflake Committee more than anything I've ever seen |
| 23:19.21 | Unkle | That series is a discussion of tropes about women in video games. It's SOCIAL COMMENTARY and for making it, she gets death and rape threats. Calling her an Attention Seeker or Fame Whore makes you foolish. |
| 23:19.24 | Gnarfoz | that's my impression from the outskirts; every article/post/discussion about it I've seen blows up into a flamefest very quickly |
| 23:20.27 | Dagmar | Unkle: No, there's the misrepresentation we talked about. She's not getting those "because she's a woman". She's getting those simply because she drew the attention of a large number of people, a certain number of which are very obviously undiagnosed/undermedicated schizophrenics, and assholes |
| 23:20.29 | awestroke | i'd say the backlash indicates it's needed |
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| 23:21.07 | Dagmar | I mean, if people want to run around believing everyone on the Internet is a normal, reasonable person, I have a few deflated footballs to sell them, and possibly a bridge |
| 23:21.12 | Gnarfoz | wouldn't you say it's those lashing back that "need" it, then? |
| 23:21.13 | Unkle | I didn't say she got it for being a woman. I said she got harassed for making social commentary. But fine, miss my point. You usually don. |
| 23:21.19 | Gnarfoz | if so, do you think they're being reached? |
| 23:21.42 | Mr_Rabies | you're not gonna be able to change the minds of the sort of people that make a physical threat against anyone |
| 23:21.53 | Mr_Rabies | the only things that will change that are medication or adulthood |
| 23:21.56 | Dagmar | All of a sudden people seem to be forgetting all those things they say are the reason you shoudln't allow childen on the inteneet unsupervised |
| 23:22.03 | Gnarfoz | well, duh |
| 23:22.27 | Gnarfoz | and we're back to where this should be: parents should pay attention that their kinds don't turn into assholes. |
| 23:22.38 | Mr_Rabies | no one deserves threats against them, but it's going to happen if you're famous, unfortunately |
| 23:22.45 | Mr_Rabies | even before the internet it did |
| 23:22.52 | Unkle | And that's exactly ZERO reason to stop working for change you believe in. If people stopped arguing/campaigning for change in how they're seen or treated, very little would ever change. |
| 23:22.54 | Gnarfoz | and for lack of time machines... start now, so this problem might be less worse in the future |
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| 23:23.51 | Simca | if you upset the societal standard to get a specific objective (such as voting rights for women / blacks), that is one thing. Society is literally forced to change in response to the laws. In this case though, like I said, it is the concepts in the core of society that need to change (like in the past), but there is no specific short-term goal that can force this change. Being diplomatic may be a more effective means of bringing about |
| 23:23.51 | Simca | the kind of change needed. |
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| 23:25.05 | Simca | I'm not convinced that her posts do more good than harm to her objective. |
| 23:25.09 | Mr_Rabies | you know i've watched too much gundam when i was gonna start using gundam analogies |
| 23:25.16 | Gnarfoz | you should |
| 23:25.25 | Dagmar | Something in the neighborhood of 1 in 100 people are schizophrenics. (this is from the W.H.O), half again are bipolar, and there's about five milion just plain crazy people in the US |
| 23:25.33 | Mr_Rabies | no one would understand it but i'll try :v |
| 23:25.39 | Dagmar | There is no "distance" on the Internet |
| 23:25.40 | Simca | plus all teenagers are assholes |
| 23:25.41 | Simca | :) |
| 23:26.06 | Dagmar | Speaking about _anything_ on the Internet is like yelling in a room filled with several *million* people |
| 23:26.29 | Dagmar | You're _going_ to get backlash. At least two people are probably going to decide you're some kind of alien spy. |
| 23:26.38 | Gnarfoz | I'm not a spy! |
| 23:26.40 | Dagmar | Just because there's two of them _doesn't mean it's a confirmation_ |
| 23:26.53 | Gnarfoz | I might be lizard people. |
| 23:27.02 | Dagmar | If you get death threats after doing anything that attracts the attention of a lot of people, it's about _them_ not about _you_ |
| 23:27.30 | Mr_Rabies | i give up on my gundam analogy |
| 23:27.45 | Dagmar | Sarkeesian acts as if she's getting these threats exclusively because she's a woman, and represents that basically, society is all twisted freaks who are sexists imbeciles |
| 23:27.49 | Mr_Rabies | tldr i'm an amuro, anita's a char |
| 23:27.57 | Dagmar | ...when in reality, that's a very, very small percentage of the population. |
| 23:28.15 | Dagmar | It's just as idiotic as acting as if the majority of white people are racist assholes |
| 23:28.21 | Simca | you haven't played call of duty on xbox live yet i see |
| 23:28.26 | Simca | lolol |
| 23:28.40 | Dagmar | Simca: I've got better things to do than play formulaic retreads |
| 23:28.44 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.56 | Dagmar | Sure. |
| 23:29.07 | Dagmar | ...but yelling at _everyone_ and making wild accusations isn't going to help matters. |
| 23:29.14 | Gnarfoz | Simca: you're saying this (less gender-role-pigeonholing in video games, I guess?) isn't as ...graspable? a goal, so it gets less attention? Might I posit that a lot of people still consider "vidya games" to be only for children, and thus, don't take them seriously to begin with? How can a sub-issue in this area then, garner enough attention for anything to change? |
| 23:29.28 | foxlit | I think I missed a not in there somewhere. Eat it, triple negative. |
| 23:29.33 | *** join/#wowuidev sylvanaar (sid18093@pdpc/supporter/active/sylvanaar) |
| 23:29.39 | kd3 | oh wow... the 'suspicious device' that got blown up yesterday downtown was an art project |
| 23:29.47 | kd3 | it's lite brite in boston all over again |
| 23:29.51 | Gnarfoz | "art" |
| 23:29.53 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 23:29.59 | kd3 | http://www.ajc.com/news/news/georgia-state-student-project-closed-downtown-conn/nj3xc/ |
| 23:30.01 | Dagmar | kd3: So... you could probably say it, uh... exploded onto the art scene, then. |
| 23:30.05 | kd3 | lmao |
| 23:30.11 | Gnarfoz | get out Dagmar |
| 23:30.14 | Gnarfoz | just... get out |
| 23:30.20 | Unkle | kd3: That's just awful. |
| 23:31.12 | Mr_Rabies | oh GSU |
| 23:31.19 | Mr_Rabies | this is 100% normal for GSU |
| 23:31.26 | Mr_Rabies | their campus IS downtown atlanta |
| 23:31.30 | Mr_Rabies | and they treat it as such |
| 23:31.38 | Dagmar | ...and theres just plenty of stupid people. |
| 23:31.44 | kd3 | honestly when I first heard 'student' I thought georgia tech freshmen doing something stupid |
| 23:31.56 | Dagmar | Hell last year they exploded a translucent sandwich box and a soft pillow. |
| 23:32.05 | Dagmar | Someone left them next to a dumpster. |
| 23:32.10 | Mr_Rabies | i figured it was some student project but i didn't think it was -19- cameras |
| 23:32.22 | Mr_Rabies | since it had a note, though |
| 23:32.27 | Mr_Rabies | you can't believe a note on a bomb |
| 23:32.45 | Dagmar | It was literally a small crocheted pillow, and a tupperware sandwich box and someone decided it looked suspicious. |
| 23:32.52 | Mr_Rabies | otherwise everyone would just make notes for bombs that were like "i'm actually a cat" |
| 23:33.13 | Dagmar | Someone pin a note to Justin Beieber |
| 23:33.18 | Mr_Rabies | "please don't blow me up i deposit cadbury chocolates randomly throughout the day" |
| 23:34.08 | Mr_Rabies | so GSU doesn't really have a campus, they just rent out random buildings in atlanta as they become available |
| 23:34.23 | Simca | Gnarfoz: yeah, all of that is definitely true. I also think the problem is that a lot of the things that she points out in her videos are the result of subconscious choices (gender pigeonholing in general seems to be mostly subconscious). There isn't anything wrong with encouraging the game designers to be more conscious of their choices, but it does make the problem different from past civil rights issues in yet another way. |
| 23:34.28 | Mr_Rabies | so the campus is probably what, over a mile or so in diameter? |
| 23:34.57 | Mr_Rabies | with liquor stores and other such businesses distributed throughout |
| 23:35.00 | fewyn | so... there's going to be a sequel to to kill a mockingbird? wat |
| 23:35.09 | Gnarfoz | fewyn: kill another mockingbird? |
| 23:35.22 | Simca | fewyn: yeah it is interesting. apparently she wrote it in the 1950s and lost the manuscript |
| 23:35.25 | Simca | and it turned up recently |
| 23:35.56 | Gnarfoz | I hope they don't put radiological dating to that |
| 23:36.02 | Gnarfoz | coughs |
| 23:36.19 | Mr_Rabies | it's never gonna have a rad movie with gregory peck in it |
| 23:37.58 | fewyn | http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-31118355?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central |
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| 23:53.55 | Jamash | damn I missed Dagmar pontificating about something he doesn't understand at all as though he's an expert on it |
| 23:54.08 | Jamash | this is what I get for trying to be productive |
| 23:54.39 | Dagmar | Yeah, I've no experience at all with communicating to thousands of people at once. |
| 23:54.59 | Dagmar | ...and I've never ever gotten death threats. |
| 23:55.02 | Gnarfoz | Jamash: just tune in whenever he talks next! :D |
