| 00:01.52 | Neffi | ohh, nice. find the bug: if not next(timers) then |
| 00:02.31 | Neffi | more context: if not next(timers) then mod:debug('WARNING: `.timers` table empty! no timers will be registered') end |
| 00:03.42 | Neffi | hint: this produces a false positive. |
| 00:05.48 | nevcairiel | You used false as a key? |
| 00:06.14 | Neffi | gives nevcairiel a cookie |
| 00:06.35 | nevcairiel | Sounds like a terrible key to use |
| 00:06.50 | Neffi | I was testing the function responsible for validating the correctness of the table passed |
| 00:07.00 | Thunder_Child | Well, Neffi is tone deaf/ |
| 00:07.02 | Neffi | a falsey key is an error |
| 00:07.05 | Thunder_Child | s///./ |
| 00:07.20 | Thunder_Child | bah, escapes. |
| 00:07.28 | Simca | you were looking for \. |
| 00:07.35 | *** join/#wowuidev sander3991 (5c6db756@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.109.183.86) |
| 00:07.47 | Neffi | no he was looking for \/ |
| 00:07.48 | Thunder_Child | Not looking so much as forgot. |
| 00:08.04 | Thunder_Child | Assuming purl would pick that up anyway. |
| 00:09.17 | Neffi | this validation function is a 158 line monster :( |
| 00:09.24 | Neffi | I have files shorter than this |
| 00:12.00 | Amarande | Neffi please don't try to implement Skynet in Lua :) |
| 00:12.13 | Neffi | of course not |
| 00:12.24 | Neffi | skynet is a terrible name. I'm calling it something better |
| 00:15.05 | Thunder_Child | scrynet |
| 00:16.36 | Neffi | it's actually unit frames with a plugin API for registering new things akin to "tags", and the ability to install layouts separately a la oUF |
| 00:17.13 | Neffi | only it puts significantly more responsibility in the lap of the layout designers. they have to decide all info gets displayed |
| 00:17.19 | Unkle | So, the wheel, reinvented. |
| 00:17.50 | Neffi | the original design may actually predate oUF! I don't know, but it's been around a while. I'm just doing some improvements now. it never got released because I was always too lazy |
| 00:17.55 | Unkle | Yes, I am an asshole. |
| 00:18.47 | Thunder_Child | You wish. |
| 01:11.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Thunderbi@2601:d:880:33:f0c9:d479:d148:11d5) |
| 01:58.51 | Amarande | hrm. am I right in judging it to be an MMO truism that assuming a normal progression of boss design, the harder it is for the healer to run out of mana, the worse off "traditional" caster DPS are? |
| 01:59.24 | Semlar | what does that even mean |
| 02:00.11 | Semlar | mages are top dps right now |
| 02:00.15 | Amarande | Semlar: looking at FF14 compared to WoW, in particular, and noting that at the top levels my role in FF14 is practically becoming extinct before I even get a chance to get there, heh |
| 02:00.21 | Amarande | whereas in WoW, that same role is king :) |
| 02:00.28 | Amarande | (and yes, I main caster DPS at the moment) |
| 02:01.10 | Amarande | by "traditional" I mean the normal model where physical attackers get to do most moves instantly, while casters are mostly rooted for multiple seconds (before haste, anyway) to deal anywhere near optimal DPS |
| 02:01.48 | Amarande | which in turn translates to basically having two left feet when it comes to fights with instantly deadly AoEs |
| 02:02.31 | Amarande | it's then noted that in WoW, AoEs tend to be more gradually deadly, while in FF14 they tend in harder content to be more or less black and white "oops you're dead" instakills |
| 02:02.53 | Semlar | i have no idea about anything outside of warcraft |
| 02:03.08 | Amarande | when people say "why not have them be more gradually deadly" answer "because Scholars basically never run out of mana so that would ruin any kind of challenge" |
| 02:03.23 | Amarande | which seems to logically indicate that robust healer mana is murder on caster DPS :( |
| 02:03.42 | Amarande | compare WoW, where the limit on fire is that healers that are pushed harder than they should (because of damage that could have been avoided) tend to OOM |
| 02:04.29 | Amarande | Semlar: the basic trouble being that if AoEs are too deadly then casters basically go to the bench because too much DPS is lost by having to clip casts to move NOW |
| 02:05.04 | Amarande | if they're more modest, then you can afford to finish that cast and then quickly move (unless a different mechanic is in play, like Defile) |
| 02:06.03 | Amarande | it does seem manifest in group choices too ... in FF14 top tier statics almost aren't running casters at all anymore, while in WoW it's more often than not melee DPS that gets the short end of it |
| 02:06.11 | Amarande | is the lesson that I should be going back to WoW, perhaps? :) |
| 02:06.17 | Semlar | yes |
| 02:06.50 | Amarande | and that instead of thinking "ooh, infinimana healer" when I try a healer class, I should be thinking "crap, this is going to mean fights will murder the casters and I like caster ..." :| |
| 02:07.31 | Semlar | i'm a hunter and get crushed by casters on twin ogron even though there's a ton of movement because they have better cleavage or something |
| 02:07.52 | Neffi | I dunno Semlar, your cleavage is pretty nice |
| 02:08.04 | Amarande | oddly I tend to think hunters in WoW are more or less similar to casters when it comes to fight mechanics |
| 02:08.05 | Semlar | only if the targets are standing right on top of each other :( |
| 02:08.32 | *** join/#wowuidev Krapsy_ (~Kraps@ool-182d7861.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 02:08.33 | Amarande | because of the fact that steady shot has a cast time, so basically dance-wise hunters are in the same boat (especially now that they've lost the big hunter advantage, which is that you always only needed half as much hit) |
| 02:09.01 | Semlar | i can cast while moving |
| 02:09.13 | Semlar | the only thing i can't cast while moving is focusing shot |
| 02:09.24 | Semlar | and power shot which isn't used for anything |
| 02:09.28 | Amarande | the dichotomy here basically is "people who get instant attacks and then have the gcd to do almost whatever" and "people who have to stand in one spot for 2-3 seconds regularly or they don't dps" |
| 02:10.09 | Amarande | probably doesn't help FF14's cause that the GCD is really long, too ... so melee attacks have to hit nearly as hard as spells for DPS to stay balanced :( |
| 02:10.22 | Mr_Rabies | hunters have more in common with melee than casters, except that they're at range and have usually one ability with a cast time |
| 02:10.45 | Amarande | pity because the story is awesome in FF14. can I transfer my WoW character to FF14 maybe? :D |
| 02:10.49 | Semlar | they've actually turned us into worse versions of casters if you pick up focusing shot |
| 02:11.07 | Mr_Rabies | i really hate cast bars on my hunter so i typically pick whichever spec has less casting |
| 02:11.21 | Amarande | (heh, wouldn't be the first time such an outlandish thing happened either, if you could ... I remember Bard's Tale II and III in the 80s let you transfer characters from Wizardry and Ultima, oddly enough) |
| 02:12.32 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:12.42 | Amarande | Mr_Rabies: ah, haven't played hunter in a while, normal play isn't mainly steady shot spam like it was in Wrath through Mists? |
| 02:13.11 | Semlar | if you have lone wolf you can't actually get stampede to attack until you get a shot off |
| 02:13.12 | Mr_Rabies | even mists really just had steady/cobra shot as filler |
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| 02:13.46 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 02:13.48 | Mr_Rabies | cobra shot in particular is mostly there for focus |
| 02:14.46 | Mr_Rabies | i think stampede pets are on permanent assist mode, no, semlar? |
| 02:14.52 | Mr_Rabies | since you weren't attacking, they weren't |
| 02:15.06 | Semlar | they will run to you when they spawn |
| 02:15.25 | Semlar | until you either get another autoshot off or you finish casting another attack |
| 02:15.30 | Semlar | it's a huge dps loss |
| 02:16.29 | Semlar | you lose a looooot of attacks if you can't get them to attack the target before they start running back to you |
| 02:17.37 | Semlar | they'll spend up to 3 seconds running to you, then you end up hitting the target and they realize they're supposed to be attacking and start running back to it, and by the time they actually start attacking you've lost 30-40% of the duration of stampede |
| 02:18.18 | Semlar | so if you use stampede you HAVE to macro an instant attack into it that isn't on cooldown |
| 02:21.48 | Semlar | because they won't attack something that you're attacking until they actually see you hit it |
| 02:21.52 | Amarande | Wow, nigh mandatory macros ... those are a thing in FF14 but I thought WoW hadn't had them for years, except sometimes to save hotbar space by combining DPS CDs for a single one-button burst |
| 02:24.26 | Amarande | which spec uses those, btw? |
| 02:24.37 | Amarande | although I start to get this feeling if I'm getting back into WoW I'm going to be a tank this time |
| 02:27.44 | Amarande | maybe. might have to accumulate a nest egg on whatever server first if I don't have one already, especially since I don't have a good set of looms |
| 02:28.00 | Amarande | did they ever put the justice ones back in, or are they still unavailable altogether? |
| 02:29.39 | Amarande | mainly I'm trying to imagine how people will react if I level a tank without looms, unless I shell out for blue BoE gear regularly |
| 02:30.12 | Simca | if low level content is as much of a joke as I remember it to be, nobody will notice |
| 02:30.29 | Simca | except maybe in your first dungeon |
| 02:31.49 | Amarande | I think that's probably what I've enjoyed the most about FF14, challenging, pay-attention content with real mechanics all the way up |
| 02:32.11 | Amarande | the problem is that since I've started getting onto the extreme primals, yeah, my black mage is becoming pain and suffering |
| 02:32.37 | Amarande | if I move immediately out of stuff? my DPS sinks like a stone. if I try to finish casts? that's how you die. |
| 02:33.13 | Amarande | hence my above bit about healer mana, since that seems to be the reason (scholar healers practically *can't* run out of mana virtually no matter how pressured, so gradual damage fire like in WoW just doesn't do, apparently ... gotta make it instakill) |
| 02:33.57 | Amarande | whereas WoW would keep getting facerolly |
| 02:35.38 | Amarande | except for MoP dailies (which I'd probably handle better now that I've had more experience with tougher mechanics :D ... although "unexpected add spawning in" isn't really something you can skill around very well, alas) |
| 02:35.41 | Semlar | wow is a faceroll until you start doing content that requires you to actually learn how to play |
| 02:36.01 | Amarande | yeah, that's probably the big design difference |
| 02:36.31 | Amarande | low level content in WoW is designed to rush you to max level quickly in and of itself, low level content in FF14 is designed to get you used to mechanics so you'll be good and ready at 50 |
| 02:37.01 | Amarande | or so you think anyway, till you do Titan on extreme and realise YOU ARE NOT PREPARED :) |
| 02:39.44 | Amarande | And then you realise that 8-man groups and a lousy economic balance do not make it easy for you to get a group to get past it (since full enforced progression is still a thing there) |
| 02:40.07 | Amarande | Yeah, I'm starting to think more about going back to WoW. My guild probably will look at me like I've gone mad though :S |
| 02:40.19 | Amarande | or free company, as we call them there |
| 02:51.12 | Neffi | I'm laughing so hard http://imgur.com/gallery/ji3sK |
| 02:54.17 | Dagmar | Is that... an avodaco? |
| 02:54.19 | Dagmar | heh |
| 02:55.05 | Dagmar | er avocado |
| 02:55.17 | Neffi | "avodaco" ha |
| 02:56.42 | Amarande | Dagmar: and Guacamole is a small Central American country known for producing bananas |
| 02:57.07 | Dagmar | hehe |
| 03:06.55 | Semlar | 3 years ago? where did you dig this up |
| 03:09.24 | Neffi | random mode |
| 03:11.11 | Neffi | Semlar, why do people rip entire albums into single flac files? |
| 03:11.22 | Semlar | to give you flac |
| 03:11.57 | Neffi | it's not even a vinyl rip. it's a CD rip into a single flac file |
| 03:14.16 | Amarande | Neffi: laziness, probably |
| 03:14.47 | Amarande | that and there's plenty of albums where you shouldn't be separating them into tracks anyway because the whole oeuvre is continuous |
| 03:14.51 | Amarande | like Dark Side of the Moon :) |
| 03:15.09 | Neffi | "you shouldn't be separating them into tracks anyway" no, go away |
| 03:15.33 | Neffi | that's like saying you shouldn't separate a play into scenes |
| 03:19.04 | Semlar | it's rude to play with your scenes neffi |
| 03:19.41 | Neffi | that's why I play with your scenes instead |
| 03:21.03 | Amarande | Neffi: how often do you watch a play scene by itself |
| 03:21.12 | Amarande | but yeah, probably a lot of people who rip albums to flac intend to listen to them as an album all the time |
| 03:21.26 | Thunder_Child | Semlar and Neffi are totally going to be our prom king and queen this year. |
| 03:21.40 | Semlar | i'm a top |
| 03:21.54 | Neffi | no, people who rip albums to a single file are just idiots |
| 03:22.25 | Neffi | no fair. i never get top bunk. |
| 03:35.19 | Dagmar | So... what you're telling us is... that you're always a bottom? |
| 03:35.51 | Semlar | neffi why is imgur nothing but tumblr |
| 03:35.58 | Dagmar | As to the other, mp3 really needs positional markers. |
| 03:36.33 | kullervo | Semlar: someone noticed it's an easy way to get points |
| 03:36.49 | Semlar | THE POINTS MEAN NOTHING |
| 03:36.50 | Neffi | because a lot of its users are whores, basically |
| 03:38.00 | Dagmar | ...especially the Tumblr users. |
| 03:42.11 | Neffi | zingggg |
| 03:42.25 | Thunder_Child | Semlar: Actually imgur would be closer to the best of tumbler. |
| 03:42.29 | Neffi | honesty though, it's not cool to make fun of tumblr users |
| 03:43.06 | Neffi | their ridiculous antics are so involuntarily self-deprecating that it's just no fun |
| 03:43.06 | Semlar | umm yes it is |
| 03:44.05 | Neffi | like their tendency to forego grammar because they think it makes them funny, or their militant-progressive mindset |
| 03:44.09 | kullervo | Thunder_Child: you just raped an extra letter in that word with your cis patriarchal rape privilege |
| 03:44.54 | Thunder_Child | kullervo: And that is exactly why so very little of tumblr is actually good. |
| 03:45.12 | kullervo | I think half of them are trolling at this point |
| 03:45.28 | Thunder_Child | I wish that was the case. |
| 03:45.41 | Thunder_Child | But I have 0 faith in humanity. |
| 03:46.42 | Neffi | kullervo: Yeah, maybe, but the problem is the other half isn't, and doesn't realize the other half IS, and so allow their culture to turn into this ever devolving feedback loop of cuntery |
| 03:46.58 | Neffi | By the way, I hearby claim to have invented the word cuntery and if you use it, plz pay thx |
| 03:47.21 | kullervo | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cuntery |
| 03:47.28 | kullervo | by Mo Dixley August 09, 2005 |
| 03:48.09 | kullervo | 'Hark! Methinks the most fell cuntery was afoot this eve.'--- Attributed to John Wayne Bobbit's ambulance driver c. 1993 |
| 03:49.12 | kullervo | I claim to have discredited your claim and demand you pay me a million dollars due to lost profits you caused |
| 03:49.46 | Neffi | i'll see you in court |
| 03:50.06 | kullervo | Your cuntery knows no bounds |
| 03:51.04 | Amarande | btw, if I'm planning to start a new character, is it worth buying WoD right away (assuming I plan to level normally) or do you not really have a use for it till you hit 90? |
| 03:51.17 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:51.17 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 03:51.19 | Elmoe | Amarande: you get a free level 90 so yes its absolutely worth it |
| 03:51.42 | Amarande | Elmoe: assuming I plan to level normally (which I really should if I'm going to go tank because it's been aeons since I've tanked and I'd better get back into the swing of it before going into new content :) |
| 03:52.20 | Elmoe | I mean I couldn't recommend that if your goal is to raid its just a huge waste of time. Leveling will teach you almost nothing about tanking. Better to just ding fast and then do things like proving grounds, dungeons, etc. |
| 03:52.50 | Elmoe | But other than the free level 90 character I don't see any reason to buy the expansion till you hit 89. |
| 03:55.30 | Semlar | because you get a free 90 |
| 03:55.55 | Semlar | and then you don't have to level |
| 04:03.04 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/rSx651f.jpg?1 |
| 04:03.21 | kullervo | Cool, just found out it's possible to double tap and hold any key combo on this ducky to have them repeat |
| 04:04.19 | kullervo | really stupidly fast, too |
| 04:12.34 | Amarande | Semlar: speaking of that, has the free 90 thing made a significant difference to queue times? |
| 04:16.42 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@ool-182d7861.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:17.33 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 04:17.38 | Amarande | (not that that will matter if I go tank, since wherever the tank goes, everyone goes :D) |
| 04:18.22 | Amarande | heck I even fairly easily got to do the level 60 dungeon runs for my old prot pally's mount in BC |
| 04:18.32 | Amarande | unlike my warlock's mount, which was like pulling teeth to get groups for Dire Maul and Scholo |
| 04:20.31 | Kowh | I haven't really noticed a difference. |
| 04:20.43 | Kowh | If anything, the giant influx of people has made it shorter. |
| 04:20.52 | Amarande | Ah. |
| 04:21.00 | Amarande | yeah, sounds like it might be time for a return to WoW |
| 04:21.04 | Kowh | Combine with CRZ some of the classic low level zones are damned annoying. |
| 04:21.08 | Amarande | unless I miraculously start clearing content in FFXIV :) |
| 04:21.18 | Amarande | well, that's always been a bit of an issue with CRZ |
| 04:21.36 | Amarande | although really what's needed is for them to move to a modern tagging system, like Lord of the Rings Online and FF14 have |
| 04:21.52 | Amarande | where, basically, first to tag always gets full credit, but everyone else gets some credit based on their contribution |
| 04:21.53 | Kowh | E.g. a sithilus has a mob with a 7 minute respawn that's a key quest to unlock the rest of the zone quests. |
| 04:22.06 | Amarande | encourages cooperation, instead of making people hate each other over spawns |
| 04:22.07 | Kowh | Usually 5-10 people waiting next to the spawn in the cave. |
| 04:22.17 | Amarande | That many people quest Silithus? :) |
| 04:22.26 | Amarande | last time I was there the place was dead as a doorknob basically |
| 04:22.27 | Kowh | A surprising number |
| 04:22.39 | Amarande | unless maybe it's for the vanilla elemental items for crafting mog stuff |
| 04:22.40 | Kowh | But also a bunch of us 100's obviously doing loremaster. :) |
| 04:22.49 | Amarande | since that's about the best place to get air and earth elemental items, though that's all that NW part |
| 04:23.11 | Kowh | I've finally been working on loremaster, lots of people in the classic zones these days. |
| 04:23.18 | Amarande | and those elemental items got RARE after Cata |
| 04:23.38 | Amarande | in fact, for a while, combined with the fact thet every elemental I killed dropped a piece of elementally titled grey vendor trash, I almost thought they didn't drop at all anymore |
| 04:23.52 | Dagmar | Yeah I thought it was a bug when I actually got some |
| 04:24.22 | Amarande | but yeah, someone should suggestion box a change to the mob tag system |
| 04:24.34 | Amarande | because that would go a LONG way towards fostering cooperation and mitigating frustration in crowded zones |
| 04:24.51 | Kowh | What I really need is a reusable item with no cooldown that does unscaling damage. I *can't* do any of the weaken quests at 100. :D |
| 04:25.04 | Amarande | of the four MMOs I've played extensively, SW:TOR is the only other one to have the all or nothing first-to-the-post tag system |
| 04:25.15 | kd3 | take off your weapon and melee it? |
| 04:25.16 | Kowh | Naked + rez sick + melee on a spellcaster still one shots |
| 04:25.23 | kd3 | bah |
| 04:26.12 | Kowh | There are some crafted items, dynamite and a alchemy potion, but the mats are a PITA to get these days, let alone the recipes. |
| 04:26.15 | Amarande | however, for TOR it's a lot less of a problem because so much is instanced anyway and population is lower |
| 04:26.33 | Amarande | Kowh: you're not on Ysera US Alliance, are you? |
| 04:26.52 | Amarande | if you were and waited till I get around to resubbing I have a 600 engi there heh |
| 04:26.58 | Kowh | Staghelm, Horde. |
| 04:27.05 | Amarande | and I THINK she knows the EZ-Thro recipe |
| 04:27.08 | Kowh | And I have a 700 engi |
| 04:27.19 | Kowh | Ah, I don't |
| 04:27.31 | Kowh | It's a rare drop, of course. |
| 04:27.51 | Amarande | hunters and warlocks must have a dandy of a time with lower level content now then :( |
| 04:27.54 | Kowh | And such a specialized use case the AH is useless |
| 04:28.08 | Amarande | especially if the "minimum contribution from actual player" damage rule is still in play (far as I know it is) |
| 04:28.15 | Kowh | Just dismiss your pet |
| 04:28.19 | Kowh | Not like they can hurt you |
| 04:28.44 | Amarande | btw, is C'Thun soloable now due to the scaling or do you still need 2 for that? |
| 04:28.53 | Kowh | I soloed him in panda |
| 04:29.00 | Dagmar | The big eye? |
| 04:29.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 04:29.15 | Kowh | In AQ, yeah |
| 04:29.16 | kd3 | c'thun was fixed in 5.1 with most other unsoloable raids |
| 04:29.24 | Dagmar | I soloed everything but the twins in there |
| 04:29.39 | Amarande | I managed the twins back in Mists but they were a friggin pain in the bum |
| 04:29.41 | kd3 | just gotta out-dps the twin healing to get past them, not too hard |
| 04:29.43 | Kowh | Can solo them too |
| 04:29.50 | Kowh | Just need to burst the right one of the pair |
| 04:29.55 | Kowh | Although I don't recall which. :D |
| 04:30.15 | Amarande | you know what I'd really like to see in MMOs too |
| 04:30.23 | Amarande | a caster type with instant casts instead of castbars |
| 04:30.51 | Amarande | only such class I can ever remember seeing in any I've tried is the Minstrel from LOTR online |
| 04:31.17 | Kowh | Affliction is sort of the way there |
| 04:31.21 | Amarande | would probably go a long way to avoid the nasty balance issue between castbars and dances (which is why I'm becoming less and less thrilled with FF14 and thinking of a return to WoW) |
| 04:31.40 | Kowh | Bunch of instant dots |
| 04:31.47 | Amarande | I main a Black Mage there and the class is literally being killed off by battle mechanics |
| 04:32.05 | Amarande | you know how in early Cataclysm all the raiders took all-caster DPS teams and benched all the melee? |
| 04:32.26 | Amarande | it's basically the opposite in FF14's top flights, now they take three melee and a bard, black mages and summoners are in trouble |
| 04:33.15 | Amarande | (and as I've mentioned, it's because of a virtually intolerable cocktail between dodgeable AoE being mostly at the one-shot level, combined with the dependency of the casters on staying still vs. the far greater agility of physicals) |
| 04:33.17 | Kowh | Between the 5.1 pass that took out all the mechanics that made soloing impossible, and the 6.0 buff they added with the stat squish, soloing old stuff is extra easy. |
| 04:33.34 | Amarande | I don't mean agility as the Dexterity stat, I mean agility as in the ability to physically dodge shit while maintaining DPS |
| 04:33.53 | Kowh | The buff gives a massive boost to your dps and dodge (or something) |
| 04:34.10 | Amarande | In WoW a tick of fire every now and then usually won't kill you and isn't worth the DPS loss to avoid, in FFXIV it's like standing under a pile driver :) |
| 04:35.03 | Amarande | huh, the soloing nerf was in 5.1? |
| 04:35.10 | Amarande | why did I not know this, most of my time on Kiruna was in 5.1 |
| 04:35.23 | Amarande | I went on my big hiatus just before 5.2, returning briefly in 5.4 |
| 04:35.25 | Kowh | They didn't make the fights easy, just took out the bits that made them physically impossible to solo |
| 04:35.34 | Amarande | ah |
| 04:35.49 | Amarande | plus mostly I was running Molten Core anyway which was easy enough |
| 04:35.59 | Amarande | as long as I was careful about that effing 60 second silence |
| 04:36.54 | Kowh | E.g. stuff that'd stunlock the tank until dealt with |
| 04:36.54 | kd3 | check the wiki. I've got solo strats up for more raid bosses than not |
| 04:36.54 | Amarande | even that wasn't fatal, just ANNOYING AS EFF when you had to switch to chipping away with your caster weapon and all that jazz LOL |
| 04:36.54 | kd3 | most of them boil down to 'just nuke the boss' |
| 04:36.54 | Amarande | last time I chipped away that much in melee on a caster was in Wrath when I was getting the weapons master achievement |
| 04:37.20 | Amarande | which mostly consisted of "get crap weapon of appropriate type, head out to Badlands, plink away at an earth elemental because they're not a threat at 80 and take a beating well" |
| 04:37.45 | Kowh | Only cata content poses any issue while soloing (apart from the odd mechanics based fight) |
| 04:38.04 | Kowh | And even then a bunch of people have soloed dragon soul heroic |
| 04:38.08 | Amarande | well, Cata was a return to the good old days when MMO raids were tough :) |
| 04:38.25 | Kowh | Really the biggest foe in dragon soul is crappy coding |
| 04:38.36 | Amarande | heh, probably the biggest foe in most legacy content |
| 04:38.41 | Amarande | like KT bugging out in TK if you DPS too fast |
| 04:38.47 | Kowh | Eh, cata is especially fragile |
| 04:39.05 | Amarande | or even KT in MgT that once |
| 04:39.09 | Kowh | The other stuff is usually completable, just acts weird |
| 04:39.10 | kd3 | kael's been fixed. you can get him to 1 hp before he starts the last phase |
| 04:39.22 | Amarande | I never quite figured out what happened to him there ... I got him down to dead and then he just kept spamming fireball and refused to rant and die |
| 04:39.30 | Amarande | until I interrupted his cast once and then down he went |
| 04:39.38 | Kowh | Was in DS the other day, we had to restart a few bosses over and over until we figured out how to not bug them out. :/ |
| 04:40.05 | Amarande | mind you KT's still got something wrong with him in MT |
| 04:40.13 | Amarande | he won't drop the damn white chocobo for me no matter how many days I go in :P |
| 04:40.40 | Kowh | Just like how Ashes never drops? Or any of the other rare mounts in WoW? ;) |
| 04:40.45 | Amarande | LOL |
| 04:40.50 | Amarande | I'm usually reasonably lucky |
| 04:40.58 | Amarande | Raven Lord only took a couple weeks or so IIRC |
| 04:41.09 | Amarande | Rivendare's mount dropped the first time I killed him solo for the achievement |
| 04:41.30 | Amarande | (not the first time I ran the instance ... but that's a technicality, first time I ran it something bugged out and Rivendare's door never opened so I couldn't finish and had to reset it) |
| 04:42.04 | Kowh | Stats cares nothing for your imaginary "luck" ;) |
| 04:42.21 | Amarande | Apparently for some reason if any abominations reach the far door to the area in that bit outside Rivendare's building, it bugs out and won't continue the dungeon |
| 04:42.45 | Amarande | which for some classes may not be an issue but I was playing as a squishy warlock and trying to keep my distance and not gather the mobs up too densely soo ... |
| 04:43.14 | Kowh | See: buff |
| 04:43.14 | Amarande | This isn't FFXIV where a black mage can just don a bunch of old leveling gear and have a reasonably powerful self heal after all! :) |
| 04:43.24 | Amarande | yeah. this was back in Wrath. :) |
| 04:43.26 | Kowh | These days if you looked at anything in there fun it'd fall over |
| 04:43.44 | Kowh | *funny |
| 04:44.21 | Amarande | but yeah, that's what I liked the most about FFXIV, how it consistently pushed you to know your class and get the most out of it even as you leveled |
| 04:44.31 | Amarande | unfortunately it's been kind of breaking down at the high end |
| 04:44.39 | Amarande | actually that seems to be an ailment with a lot of MMOs unfortunately :( |
| 04:44.53 | Amarande | TOR has the same trouble, the 1-50 stuff is awesomeness and then it kind of falls flat after that |
| 04:45.29 | Amarande | although that's not because it gets too hard for some classes, that's just because it gets boring |
| 04:47.00 | Amarande | I've been finding myself getting it lately that the reason WoW has been so successful for so long is because they keep the right balance to keep you coming and not make you irrelevant |
| 04:47.15 | Amarande | even mages, I may have complained that they were getting far too squishy solo, but they're the lords of it all in raiding apparently still |
| 04:47.56 | Kowh | Frost mages are near the top of the dps again, I think |
| 04:48.19 | Amarande | (it's kind of the reverse in FF14 ... Black Mages and Summoners are the bees' knees for soloing, but are getting increasingly awful in raiding) |
| 04:48.27 | Amarande | yeah that's something I've loved about Cata and later |
| 04:48.32 | Amarande | Frost has always been my fave mage spec |
| 04:48.48 | Amarande | but until later Cata, it wasn't really considered viable for endgame PvE |
| 04:49.29 | Kowh | I don't like mages much, not enough utility for my liking, so the glass cannon shatters way too often. |
| 04:50.21 | Kowh | Also kiting is a sometimes food |
| 04:50.40 | Amarande | yeah, that's the difference in FFXIV with BLM ... lots of survivability |
| 04:50.58 | Kowh | My main is ele shaman, tons of survivability by comparison |
| 04:51.02 | Amarande | kiting is a lot more readily achieved, you have a physical bubble that negates 2 hits and a 30% magical bubble |
| 04:51.25 | Amarande | and you can cross-class Physick for healing, although that tapers off in power rapidly once you hit 50 because gear gets more specialised |
| 04:51.46 | Amarande | (before 50, basically all the caster leveling gear has both the heal and dps mainstats so the heal is actually really useful then) |
| 04:52.03 | Kowh | The stat consolidation in WoW helped there |
| 04:52.20 | Kowh | My spell dps gear is good for healing, except for mana. |
| 04:52.24 | Amarande | also it's easier to avoid mobs in general, since well, no 360 degree x-ray vision like in WoW LOL |
| 04:52.56 | Kowh | So my dps heals aren't entirely useless |
| 04:52.57 | Amarande | gotta love those WoW mobs that aggro through the wall :D |
| 04:53.12 | Kowh | Although heal specs also have giant heal boosts via passives and such |
| 04:53.12 | Amarande | was always fun when running old school Scholo |
| 04:53.36 | Amarande | yeah ele shaman is pretty nice |
| 04:53.44 | Amarande | I might resume mine, if I don't roll a tank finally for the first time since BC |
| 04:54.00 | Amarande | well okay, I dabbled in tanking a little bit in Wrath but I felt that DK tanking handled "like a shopping cart" to make a Simpsons reference :) |
| 04:54.03 | Kowh | Tanking will be a bit of a surprise |
| 04:54.16 | Kowh | The way they hold aggro now is by out dpsing everything else. :D |
| 04:54.16 | Amarande | I always shake my head at that one pally glyph |
| 04:54.33 | Amarande | as in the one that makes consecrate targeted instead of point-blank |
| 04:54.58 | Amarande | like, half the reason I hated DK tanking was the interruption of flow due to needing to put down the damn reticle for dammit I forget the name of the skill now |
| 04:55.05 | Amarande | why would I want to do that with consecrate too? :P |
| 04:55.59 | Kowh | I haven't tried a DK tank since LK, but apparently these days, at least in blood, it's nothing but spamming blood boil. |
| 04:59.18 | Kowh | I should get back to my prot warrior. Was lots of fun last xpac. |
| 04:59.37 | Amarande | yeah, warrior is the one class I've actually played the least |
| 04:59.55 | Amarande | pretty sure every other class I've reached at least level 40 on, highest I've ever been as Warrior is 23-ish |
| 04:59.59 | Kowh | I didn't care much for warrior back in the day, but with the crazy dps they put out since panda, it's fun. |
| 05:00.34 | Kowh | Also rejiggered the skills to be less annoying |
| 05:01.15 | Amarande | wow what wha when did they add a sword and shield DPS spec for warrior |
| 05:01.39 | Amarande | that's new |
| 05:01.54 | Amarande | pity arms is still crap, though |
| 05:02.14 | Semlar | arms is one of the best AoE specs in the game |
| 05:02.21 | Amarande | although I'm not sure how legitimate the Noxxic rankings really are |
| 05:02.31 | Amarande | particularly with the large number of caster specs high up |
| 05:02.42 | Amarande | and knowing from maining caster in FF14 that caster DPS can be *extremely* volatile based on mobility needs |
| 05:02.55 | Amarande | whereas physical DPS is often more reliable because the instant+GCD paradigm makes for easier dodging |
| 05:03.30 | Kowh | They nerfed ele mobility, and others I think |
| 05:03.40 | Kowh | It's now mostly a special. |
| 05:03.54 | Kowh | Fire of a skill for temporary mobility with full dps |
| 05:03.56 | Kowh | *off |
| 05:03.57 | *** topic/#wowuidev by Cairenn -> http://pastebin.com || 6.0.x ToC: 60000 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl || Happy Birthday Shirik! |
| 05:04.26 | Kowh | If it's not instant, it generally requires being stationary |
| 05:06.05 | Semlar | unless you're a hunter, in which case you dance around the casters while executing your full rotation |
| 05:06.20 | Constie | Abolish Hunters. |
| 05:06.38 | Semlar | nerf huntars |
| 05:06.47 | Semlar | 2 stronk |
| 05:06.58 | Constie | Make playing a Hunter a bannable offense. |
| 05:08.28 | Amarande | Kowh: yeah, that I noticed in the 6.0 notes |
| 05:08.39 | Amarande | at least it's not as bad as FF14 because there aren't a lot of instant kill AoEs |
| 05:09.10 | Amarande | like I said, that was the big problem there ... you always HAD to clip your cast, nolens volens, because the hit would be a 1-shot usually |
| 05:09.19 | Amarande | here, take a little damage, just don't stand in it |
| 05:09.28 | Amarande | at least usually, anyway |
| 05:09.44 | Amarande | Don't stand in defile, and I'm not sure about the WoD raids of course |
| 05:10.00 | Semlar | how much heroic raiding have you done |
| 05:10.01 | Amarande | oh, that reminds me, speaking of defile and such ... I'm guessing the new soloability initiative means the drag'n'drop valkyrs are gone for good? |
| 05:10.18 | *** join/#wowuidev Sintacks (Syntax@173-80-96-74.chlncmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 05:10.21 | Amarande | Semlar: 10/12 ICC10H, we were working on Sindragosa when the 4.0.1 patch rolled in and screwed up balance too badly for us to get any further |
| 05:10.31 | Kowh | The Lich King fight? |
| 05:10.31 | Amarande | haven't really been an active raider since then |
| 05:10.42 | Amarande | Kowh: yeah |
| 05:10.48 | Kowh | Yeah, easy to solo now |
| 05:10.54 | Kowh | As long as you don't stand in stupid |
| 05:11.00 | Amarande | I'm guessing the glowing ladies don't show up anymore, or only when you're not in a group? |
| 05:11.07 | Kowh | The black pools still throw you off |
| 05:11.19 | Amarande | yeah defile is still always to be avoided, because it spreads :) |
| 05:11.34 | Amarande | I died once back in my ICC raiding days because of defile ... well not directly |
| 05:11.40 | Kowh | Nothing in there hurts unless you're silly about it |
| 05:11.59 | Amarande | ended up being the one who got sucked into Frostmourne, managed to pop out to find myself right in defile, in such a way that running out of it ... yeah, went splodey into a bunch of orbs |
| 05:12.06 | Kowh | Just stand on the stairs and burn LK, easy. |
| 05:12.07 | Amarande | because I popped in kind of off centre so that was the only way to go :( |
| 05:12.13 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:12.21 | Kowh | Dodging the occasional black puddle of wipe. |
| 05:12.40 | Amarande | mind you, that probably feels mild nowadays |
| 05:12.41 | Kowh | Skips most of the mechanics too |
| 05:12.53 | Amarande | just about everything will probably feel mild after Titan Extreme from FF14 |
| 05:13.03 | Amarande | that boss was just made of 700 forms of mean |
| 05:13.38 | Kowh | Haven't played FF14, most recent "hardcore" raiding I did was Wildstar. |
| 05:15.14 | Kowh | Which was fairly hardcore. Even getting to the first boss requires a few weeks. :D |
| 05:15.29 | Kowh | Some of the trash is nasty |
| 05:16.33 | Constie | Is the ground effect for Branded not showing up for you there, Semlar? |
| 05:16.40 | Semlar | oh it shows |
| 05:16.46 | Semlar | i just have literally no time to react |
| 05:16.47 | Amarande | ah ... haven't tried Wildstar |
| 05:16.59 | Amarande | Kowh: FF14 is a lot more mechanics heavy from the first, even the leveling dungeons demand you get used to mechanics |
| 05:17.07 | Constie | Oh, I see. Yeah, that is some timing. |
| 05:17.15 | Amarande | while I'm pretty sure in WoW you can basically ignore mechanics till you get to Cata or so |
| 05:17.17 | Kowh | As was Wildstar |
| 05:17.27 | Kowh | The main thing with W*'s combat was telegraphs |
| 05:17.34 | Amarande | except maybe a few little bits like, don't be an idiot and dps the flesh golems instead of the grafts in Scholo :P |
| 05:17.43 | Kowh | Big attacks would put outlines on the ground |
| 05:17.45 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:17.49 | Amarande | yeah, FFXIV does that too |
| 05:17.50 | Kowh | Had to be good at dodging them |
| 05:17.58 | Amarande | and yeah, you have to be good at dodging them there too |
| 05:18.00 | Semlar | when i tried to disengage away from the group with the debuff on me |
| 05:18.04 | Amarande | that's why Black Mages are out of business in top tier content |
| 05:18.15 | Kowh | You'd thinking putting outlines would make it easy, but that just means they make it all the more nasty. :D |
| 05:18.18 | Amarande | because they hold back progression too much with the fact that they need to keep dodging stuff AND maintain enough DPS to meet the enrage checks |
| 05:18.29 | Amarande | whereas taking melee and a bard makes it that much easier |
| 05:18.35 | Kowh | W* was way more movement based than WoW |
| 05:18.43 | Amarande | typical contrast between MMOs and single player games, heh |
| 05:19.00 | Amarande | in single player games, you're considered a wuss if you don't take on at least some sort of challenge in the game |
| 05:19.02 | Kowh | I do miss spellslinger |
| 05:19.10 | Semlar | then the tank got teleported into it |
| 05:19.14 | Kowh | My build had no stationary skills, could fully dps while moving |
| 05:19.23 | Amarande | in MMOs? if you take on a voluntary challenge you're an annoying idiot who's just making things more of a pain for the group, unless there's an actual achievement or item reward for doing so |
| 05:19.40 | Amarande | and given that in FF14 you can change classes on the same character almost whenever (except in combat or instances basically) |
| 05:19.44 | Amarande | so you can gear Black Mage without having to be one |
| 05:19.50 | Amarande | there is even less reason to bring them to fight night |
| 05:20.17 | Kowh | Related, WoW now has loot specs |
| 05:20.26 | Amarande | yeah, that was in Mists |
| 05:20.27 | Kowh | You set the spec you want loot for |
| 05:20.29 | Kowh | Ah |
| 05:20.37 | Amarande | or at least loot tailored to your spec |
| 05:20.49 | Amarande | but in FF14 you could change your whole class, not just your spec |
| 05:20.51 | Dagmar | ...which is mainly only of interest to a few classes |
| 05:20.51 | Amarande | basically no need for alts |
| 05:20.59 | Kowh | Yeah |
| 05:21.06 | Constie | That's horrible, Semlar. |
| 05:21.08 | Kowh | I like the idea |
| 05:21.22 | Dagmar | It's evil. |
| 05:21.34 | Semlar | lol, i had more time to react that time but i didn't see the ring i just saw that i had the debuff and was trying to get away from people |
| 05:21.40 | Dagmar | When I was running heroics to gear up for raids, a _leather_ piece that was BoE dropped off a bos. |
| 05:21.44 | Dagmar | er boss. |
| 05:21.56 | Amarande | Semlar: yeah sometimes getting marked in FF14 didn't mean run away too |
| 05:21.56 | Dagmar | Being so used to only seeing loot I could use, I put it on my hunter. |
| 05:22.06 | Amarande | sometimes running away meant you'd eat a Moogle Go Round |
| 05:22.19 | Amarande | which was generally a one shot, unless you were ... in fact, a black mage (the "negate 2 physical attacks" thing could block it) |
| 05:22.27 | Dagmar | A week and a half later I notice my highest ilevel piece (because it was warforged, too) was fucking leather. |
| 05:22.28 | Constie | I mean, you were well into the phase where having the debuff means there will be a ring. |
| 05:22.38 | Semlar | yeah yeah |
| 05:22.41 | Amarande | but yeah, consider Titan EX |
| 05:22.43 | Semlar | i have other things to focus on |
| 05:22.51 | Amarande | you fight on the top of a pillar (it's almost like the lich king pillar, really) |
| 05:23.12 | Amarande | he has Landslide (which will toss you off the cliff if you get caught in it) |
| 05:23.36 | Amarande | Weight of the Land (which will just make you go squish, especially since the general means of avoiding it for the party is to stack for it, so getting hit means you eat like 5 of them) |
| 05:23.53 | Amarande | Upheaval (which will toss you off the cliff if you're not in the middle of the field when it occurs) |
| 05:24.24 | Amarande | and bombs (which will practically one shot you if you get hit when they go off, and why yes, he will combine them with landslide, and in a pattern giving you no safe place to stand unless you can dps one down before it goes, too) |
| 05:24.27 | Semlar | every time we kill imperator our tank kills the entire raid |
| 05:24.48 | Amarande | and a Sindragosa-esque jail mechanic (thank god it doesn't spread to folks adjacent to the target) |
| 05:24.51 | Semlar | because they still have the debuff on them and explode in the middle of the room |
| 05:25.11 | Amarande | basically, it's HELL being a caster there |
| 05:25.26 | Amarande | stack with the group? the first landslide spawns there, move it |
| 05:25.36 | Amarande | want to cast after that? nope, you need to get back with the group or the weights won't stack and someone will eat them |
| 05:25.50 | Amarande | and that's just the beginning :) |
| 05:26.08 | Constie | That happened on our first normal kill. |
| 05:26.15 | Amarande | which is another crap end of the stick for casters on ff14, too |
| 05:26.35 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:26.42 | Amarande | so many fights depend *heavily* on stacking the squad, either to make "targets multiple people" AoEs minimise their affected area, or because of the need for AoE heals |
| 05:26.54 | Amarande | so not only do you have all the other woes but you're practically forced to fight as melee on top of that |
| 05:26.57 | Constie | Just like that, except I survived. |
| 05:27.04 | Semlar | well i had a choice to make |
| 05:27.09 | Semlar | i could either hit deterrence or i could hit record |
| 05:27.26 | Amarande | and in an 8-man group there isn't "stack the melee" and "stack the ranged/healers" there's just "stack" |
| 05:28.21 | Kowh | Amarande: You're going to love heroic butcher. :D |
| 05:28.23 | Neffi | Semlar: that video is so hot |
| 05:28.27 | *** join/#wowuidev MiRai (~MiRai@107-143-8-58.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:28.35 | Amarande | I could either avoid the AoEs and basically be useless, or try to deal actual damage and keep dying |
| 05:28.56 | Amarande | and while I haven't progressed into Turn 5 or later in Coil, and I'm still stuck on Moggle Mog and Levi EX so I haven't got to Ramuh or Shiva extremes |
| 05:29.02 | Amarande | apparently it gets harder from there |
| 05:29.18 | Amarande | at least Titan is fairly relaxed on the DPS checks, particularly when everyone is overgeared (they're there, but it's like "is half the party dead? if not, you stand a chance") |
| 05:29.37 | Semlar | blows up on neffi |
| 05:29.39 | Amarande | Final Coil? You still need full tilt from everyone, while dodging stuff |
| 05:29.43 | Amarande | yeah, casters need not apply, LOL |
| 05:29.49 | Constie | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyOmthi0HV4#t=768 |
| 05:29.59 | Amarande | Kowh: anything like butcher from Diablo series? |
| 05:30.11 | Kowh | Butcher stacks a nasty debuff on the largest cluster of people, 5 stacks == dead |
| 05:30.17 | Amarande | also, I might not continue DPS, I might be tanking then |
| 05:30.25 | Amarande | ouch, I'm guessing melee DPS are getting benched again |
| 05:30.29 | Amarande | the better not to murder the tank |
| 05:30.37 | Semlar | too many people survived in that, constie |
| 05:30.40 | Kowh | Nah, tank stays by himself |
| 05:30.51 | Kowh | Usually you send hunters in and out |
| 05:30.56 | Amarande | which I THINK may have been the problem with early Cata benching the melee |
| 05:30.59 | Kowh | Have two groups so one can let the debuff fall off |
| 05:31.10 | Amarande | think there was a mechanic or two that was "target AoE damage around a player" |
| 05:31.12 | Kowh | Both groups are melee range |
| 05:31.17 | Kowh | On either leg |
| 05:31.23 | Amarande | which meant if you had melee DPS and they got hit, the tank took unnecessary roughness |
| 05:31.37 | Amarande | Valiona and what's its name had something like that in particular I think |
| 05:31.56 | Amarande | we never got very far in Cata raiding, I tried it for a few weeks with the same guild as in LK but it didn't really go down well |
| 05:32.04 | Kowh | Not that he's soft on tanks, but the melee stuff doesn't wipe the tank. At least until you screw up the debuff dance. |
| 05:32.22 | Kowh | He's also a dps check |
| 05:32.24 | Amarande | also, that's on heroic |
| 05:32.37 | Amarande | in FF14, there aren't really meaningful difficulties like that |
| 05:32.43 | Amarande | there's "Hard" and "Extreme" |
| 05:32.43 | Kowh | WoD Heroic is the new normal |
| 05:32.54 | Amarande | and "Hard" tends to either drop nothing or else nothing useful to most people |
| 05:33.03 | Amarande | Extreme is the only difficulty with any useful drops |
| 05:33.11 | Kowh | You have LFR, which means you can zerg everything, pretty much |
| 05:33.23 | Amarande | Yeah, you didn't get that in FF14 unless you count Hard |
| 05:33.28 | Kowh | Normal, where you have to do mechanics, but if you can do those you're alright |
| 05:33.42 | Kowh | Heroic where you need to be good at what you do |
| 05:33.43 | Amarande | which means you get a tiny number of gear tokens and that's it ... not even enough gear tokens to be worth farming it |
| 05:33.57 | Amarande | although it's pretty sedate (except for Titan, who's kind of nasty even on hard) |
| 05:33.58 | Kowh | And Mythic which is for people who are inhuman |
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| 05:34.14 | *** join/#wowuidev NuSuey (uid3556@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pwqztladfvlrmyat) |
| 05:34.19 | Amarande | Extreme ... is AT LEAST Heroic tier by comparison to WoW |
| 05:34.20 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.38 | Amarande | and Square somehow thinks that random groups have a reasonable shot at them, LOL |
| 05:34.39 | *** part/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:35.19 | Amarande | and meanwhile getting a group to go with you who can do it and teach you is like pulling teeth most of the time unless you pay out the nose |
| 05:35.33 | Amarande | except ... there's the other shoe, money farming is NOT something you can really do through adventuring |
| 05:35.53 | Amarande | the only things that get you any real income compared to the costs of carries are 3-star crafts, which require that you level EVERY crafting class to 50 basically |
| 05:35.59 | Kowh | WoD throws money at you it seems, but that's mostly just xpac inflation I think. |
| 05:36.23 | Constie | You definitely need to be extremely good for mythic, like I am. http://vimeo.com/116961745 |
| 05:36.28 | Amarande | Imagine if you could take all the professions on one character in WoW, but epic crafts required you to have 700 in all of them |
| 05:36.34 | Amarande | that's basically how it works in FF14 |
| 05:36.39 | Constie | Aside from the standing in fire and standing in other bad things and not doing good DPS. |
| 05:36.42 | Kowh | So far the money sinks seem to be working though, would have expected crazy inflation given how much money I've got. Usually I'm far from rich. |
| 05:36.53 | Amarande | yeah, xpac inflation is always a thing in WoW |
| 05:37.13 | Amarande | I'll have to check Undermine Journal and find out how ridic even reasonably baseline sized bags are now |
| 05:37.15 | Constie | Do you not have ranged attack animations if you're using the Millhouse toy? |
| 05:37.25 | Semlar | i just shoot arrows |
| 05:37.25 | Kowh | It seems worse than usual, but it could be an exponential curve type thing |
| 05:37.31 | Semlar | out of my staff |
| 05:37.35 | Amarande | yeah WoW pretty much loves exponential curves |
| 05:38.03 | Amarande | it's part of the whole contraction pack philosophy though, which practically every MMO seems to practise |
| 05:38.15 | Amarande | oh, sure, they CALL them "expansions" |
| 05:38.30 | Amarande | but in reality what they do is kill off virtually all the existing content and make only a tiny sliver of it actually meaningful :) |
| 05:38.47 | Amarande | but then FF14 is a perfect object lesson on why they do that, I suppose |
| 05:39.38 | Amarande | they've tried to stick to the enforced complete progression system like was the thing back in Burning Crusade or so |
| 05:40.03 | Amarande | ... much like Burning Crusade, it makes for things getting pretty strained in terms of getting enough good players to go back and do stuff so that the newer folks aren't stuck |
| 05:40.38 | Kowh | I liked GW2's attempt at that |
| 05:40.51 | Amarande | if the content's hard enough that it's borderline non puggable? then competent players just stick to banding together and selling carries for the most part |
| 05:40.53 | Kowh | Zones had level caps, if you were above you'd be scaled down to the cap |
| 05:40.55 | Amarande | and newer folks do, indeed, get stuck, alas |
| 05:41.02 | Amarande | yeah that's how dungeons work in FF14 |
| 05:41.04 | Kowh | So all content was always your level |
| 05:41.23 | Amarande | the sad part of that though means when the xpac hits people will probably NEVER do top tier 50 content other than for hire |
| 05:41.26 | Kowh | And the cap was set high enough outleveling content was still a viable tactic |
| 05:41.36 | Amarande | because leveling won't make it easier, people will still get synced back to 50 |
| 05:41.58 | Amarande | Yeah FF14 dungeons cut you to 2-3 levels above the dungeon at most, and for max level content it will be 50 and 50 only |
| 05:42.28 | Amarande | I guess it's a necessity though ... they don't want to adopt the WoW/TOR tanking philosophy where it's basically "dps in tank stance" |
| 05:42.53 | Amarande | and it already gets pretty hilarious as it is when you have a low level dungeon and everyone but the tank is higher level folks synced down while the tank is a newbie who's just barely hit the level to do the instance |
| 05:43.03 | Amarande | (and skipping the instance is not an option, you HAVE TO do all the leveling dungeons basically) |
| 05:43.14 | Constie | Tonight was hours 2-5 of bashing our heads against the wall of mythic Brackenspore. Kind of demoralizing when after a whole night you're not completely sure you really made any progress. |
| 05:43.35 | Amarande | Constie: at least in WoW you still progress with statics for the most part |
| 05:43.59 | Amarande | unless you're caught up to current endgame (meaning Shiva Extreme for the primal path and Turn 10-13 for the Coil of Bahamut path) in FF14 you're expected to try to pug it to catch up |
| 05:44.25 | Amarande | you get one hour with a given pug, then the group automatically breaks up and you can't necessarily (since duty finder is cross server) reform the same |
| 05:44.42 | Amarande | and like I said, some of those EX Primals are borderline non-puggable (and Coil is harder than that) |
| 05:45.12 | Amarande | I love my Free Company but it's getting to be like the sad repetition of history when it comes to my choice of guilds in games :( |
| 05:45.41 | Amarande | I really need to manage to break free of that problem ... I managed it in Wrath |
| 05:46.21 | Amarande | I get guilds that are awesome and friendly and everyone gets along nicely and there's enough activity to keep people coming back ... but which always are forced to pug members to complete groups because we either don't have enough people or not the right setup of max leveled classes |
| 05:46.49 | Amarande | and so progression tends to become stunted :( |
| 05:48.12 | Amarande | I'm never quite sure what the cure for that sort of doldrum is |
| 05:48.14 | Cairenn | Man, that's just friggin' depressing. The 10 year anniversary gifts are already on eBay, $500 and up |
| 05:48.26 | Kowh | My guild has a FFXIV chapter that seems to be pretty happening, if you were interested. Second largest on gigamesh or somesuch. Dunno much about what they're doing, but I could hook you up with someone to query. |
| 05:48.51 | Amarande | I hate leaving guilds and getting seen like a guild hopper or losing friends :( |
| 05:48.57 | Amarande | Kowh: ah, I'm on Shiva |
| 05:49.13 | Amarande | Thought of rolling on Gilgamesh but that's kind of a pipe dream most of the time unless you stay up till 3AM LOL |
| 05:49.45 | Kowh | I think they've got a bunch of newbs, and are certainly not elitest about only doing end game content. |
| 05:49.54 | Amarande | Cairenn: which ones? I thought the whatchamacallit the fire corgi was account bound |
| 05:49.59 | Amarande | (plus trading that would be RMT and bannable) |
| 05:50.04 | Cairenn | no no |
| 05:50.09 | Kowh | They mailed a physical statue |
| 05:50.10 | Cairenn | the orc on worg statue |
| 05:50.14 | Amarande | LOL what's my joke about gold sellers |
| 05:50.19 | Amarande | the bit about how they claim to save you money is probably true |
| 05:50.27 | Amarande | as in they'll save you ... oh, about 15 bucks a month, if you get my drift LOL |
| 05:50.35 | Cairenn | http://www.ebay.ca/itm/World-of-Warcraft-WOW-Blizzard-10th-Anniversary-Statue-Collectors-Item-/151558532648?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item234997ae28 |
| 05:50.46 | Kowh | Had to have had an active sub for all 10 years though |
| 05:50.48 | Cairenn | that one is up for cheap |
| 05:50.59 | Amarande | ah that would be why |
| 05:51.01 | Kowh | And I don't know about you, but I can't play WoW for that long. |
| 05:51.07 | Amarande | yeah, I tend to MMO hop a lot |
| 05:51.22 | Kowh | I keep coming back, but there's a long delay between xpacs |
| 05:51.24 | Amarande | I'd stay subbed to everything but that would be four MMOs now |
| 05:51.28 | Kowh | And eventually you run out of things you want to do |
| 05:51.32 | Amarande | and whether I spend 15 bucks a month or 60, I only have X amount of time for gaming |
| 05:51.41 | Kowh | Yeah |
| 05:51.59 | Kowh | Even without the time constraint, context switching is annoying |
| 05:52.24 | Amarande | First I got into WoW |
| 05:52.33 | Kowh | While Wildstar was dieing (or at least, my raiding guild), I did that and WoW. |
| 05:52.38 | Amarande | then eventually I picked up Lord of the Rings Online and started waffling between the two |
| 05:53.05 | Amarande | and then Star Wars the Old Republic into the mix (which I need to stop by more as well, especially because I belong to the Dark Jedi Brotherhood and TOR activity with the club guild actually gets you credits towards advancement) |
| 05:53.15 | Kowh | As many flaws as it had, I certainly miss Wildstar's mobility and basic combat when context switching to WoW. |
| 05:53.19 | Amarande | and then I finally picked up FF14 |
| 05:53.26 | Kowh | Fine now because I haven't played W* in awhile. |
| 05:53.35 | Amarande | and then I got the D3 expansion for Christmas |
| 05:53.55 | Amarande | and soon enough, whichever MMO I continue with this spring I need to buy an expansion pack for |
| 05:53.58 | Kowh | I played TOR at launch and then for a few months |
| 05:54.12 | Amarande | because I don't have WoD, Shadow of Revan, or Helm's Deep, and Heavensward isn't out yet but will be then |
| 05:54.22 | Kowh | End game wasn't a keeper, so moved on. |
| 05:54.31 | Amarande | yeah, TOR I tend to love when I'm leveling up and then I rapidly get bored to tears endgame |
| 05:54.49 | Amarande | so I tend to hit max level, collect my Pendant of Blood at the DJB, and usually end up letting my sub die out |
| 05:55.01 | Kowh | I think it's better now, but there was a lot of annoyances leveling through stuff after the first time. |
| 05:55.10 | Kowh | So I didn't do much alting either |
| 05:55.16 | Amarande | oh, didn't mind alting |
| 05:55.32 | Amarande | especially since if you subscribe there's more than enough content to level at least a couple on each side before you start running into a lot of retreading |
| 05:55.39 | Kowh | Really, I wish they had skipped the MMO idea and made another solo rpg |
| 05:55.42 | Amarande | because you practically skip the planet mission series on every other planet due to outleveling, much like WoW |
| 05:55.59 | Kowh | Ah, they must have upped the xp gain a bit |
| 05:56.23 | Kowh | One of those sub perks maybe? |
| 05:56.33 | Amarande | tbh, LOTRO and FF14 are the only MMOs I've played (other than topmost expansion content in WoW) where I didn't regularly find areas greying out before I had a chance to finish them |
| 05:56.43 | Amarande | FF14 I actually found myself falling behind the level needed for the main quest at times |
| 05:56.56 | Amarande | yeah, non-subs get an XP nerf in TOR |
| 05:56.57 | Kowh | Seems a common F2P thing to make the F2P xp the old baseline and boost subbers. |
| 05:57.06 | Amarande | either that or subs get a boost, not sure which |
| 05:57.46 | Amarande | LOTRO gates by selling the 30-50 range leveling zones a la carte to non-subs ... if you aren't a sub you either have to buy zones or grind mobs the whole way |
| 05:57.51 | Amarande | (after 50 you have to buy expansion packs either way) |
| 05:58.22 | Kowh | Ah, never did try LOTRO. |
| 05:58.39 | Amarande | basically if you don't have rights to a zone (except for Moria, which you can't even get into at all without having bought that expansion) |
| 05:58.50 | Kowh | Forget which MMO I was with at the time, but generally if I have one MMO keeping my attention I don't bother with others. |
| 05:59.01 | Amarande | you can visit it and wander it and gather resources and kill things but you can't do any quests or deeds (achievements basically, but with more perks than most achievements in MMOs) |
| 05:59.18 | Kowh | And if you don't play at launch a lot of MMOs are painful |
| 05:59.31 | Amarande | yeah, that's a big problem with FF14, it seems |
| 05:59.42 | Amarande | because so few people who are competent with earlier Extreme Primals still run them |
| 06:00.03 | Kowh | Seems a failing of so many MMOs, not letting you play with friends. |
| 06:00.05 | Amarande | except for hire, anyway, and hiring is brutally expensive (we're talking often a million gil when a non-crafter will probably hover around 350k most of the time after hitting 50) |
| 06:00.24 | Kowh | City of Heroes had both mentoring *and* sidekicking, which was great. |
| 06:00.56 | Amarande | well, we can play with friends, but so many of us still need to learn the instance that I'm feeling pessimistic about there being enough time to get through everything before the expansion hits |
| 06:00.58 | Kowh | Pair up and you can do the higher level char's content, or the lower level. |
| 06:01.08 | Amarande | which has a good chance of just killing off Coil and EX |
| 06:01.28 | Kowh | Most of the other MMOs require you to level in lock step with your friends, which is generally horrible. |
| 06:01.40 | Kowh | As people often want to play when the other isn't available |
| 06:01.55 | Kowh | And if you dedicate an alt to playing together they lag behind so much you don't want to play them |
| 06:01.55 | Amarande | Possibly not Hard primals because those belong to a random instance roulette, and you get big tomestone (their version of justice/valor basically) rewards for doing roulettes so that brings people in |
| 06:02.08 | Amarande | yeah, FF11 had that problem up to, well, 11 |
| 06:02.26 | Amarande | and that old school design possibly was the root of the infamous tank shortages in MMOs too |
| 06:02.35 | Amarande | because back then it really DID suck to be a tank |
| 06:02.55 | Amarande | nowadays it's silly for people not to want to be tanks ... tanks get better queues and generally easier time getting into groups because you're needed |
| 06:03.10 | Amarande | and way better survivability in most cases too for solo content |
| 06:03.33 | Amarande | in old school MMOs yeah it stank to be a tank because they had that whole level down mechanic ... DPS often got to keep their levels while the tank gained the same level over and over :P |
| 06:03.53 | Amarande | I could never get into FF11 much myself |
| 06:04.37 | Amarande | (didn't help either that they had ludicrous coding ... had to print every guide, because if you alt-tabbed the game would say "sorry exiting because I lost fullscreen") |
| 06:05.14 | Kowh | I think FF10 was the last I really played |
| 06:05.35 | Amarande | oh the solo FFs are a fave of mine |
| 06:05.39 | Amarande | 11 and 14 are the only ones that are MMOs |
| 06:05.40 | Kowh | And that level of grind applied to an MMO is why I never played XIV |
| 06:05.57 | Kowh | 11 had horrible reviews too |
| 06:06.00 | Amarande | although 12 I never got into ... because, in fact, it felt like an MMO minus the social aspect *yawn* |
| 06:06.20 | Amarande | and yes, the grind is that bad |
| 06:06.43 | Amarande | I still remember once getting a 999 chain in 12 (easy enough with the party member AI system, basically just had to walk back and forth between a couple subzones while chatting on IRC :) |
| 06:06.44 | Kowh | I bought 12 I think, but played only a few hours and never went back. |
| 06:06.55 | Amarande | ... and then realised just how little you can do with 999 licence points |
| 06:07.23 | Amarande | 10 didn't feel grindy until postgame |
| 06:07.40 | Kowh | Yeah, I had fun with 10 |
| 06:07.50 | Kowh | But there was a definite downward trend from 7 onwards |
| 06:07.51 | Amarande | lightning dodger can go diaf though |
| 06:07.56 | Kowh | In fun per time spent |
| 06:08.11 | Kowh | And in RL I had less time |
| 06:08.22 | Amarande | especially on the HD remake, where both the lightning dodger and the chocobo racing are often impacted by HDMI latency |
| 06:09.33 | Kowh | Some TVs have obscenely long latency, yeah. |
| 06:09.46 | Kowh | It's obvious they just don't care about it |
| 06:10.09 | Amarande | probably they want to sell luxury tier TVs with "gamer mode" or whatnot :| |
| 06:10.10 | Kowh | Apparently Sony is one of the best of latency these days, so that's what I've got. |
| 06:10.33 | Kowh | Although I barely play consoles these days, I play WoW instead. :D |
| 06:10.33 | Amarande | Sony probably doesn't want to take that risk, since they need to keep the PS4 competitive with the XB1 |
| 06:11.12 | Kowh | Sony's generally been really good technically. Horrible in many other respects, but their engineers are brilliant when they put their minds to things. |
| 06:11.50 | Kowh | Sometimes being brilliantly technical in a wrong direction (see PS3) |
| 06:12.37 | Amarande | PS3 was awesome though |
| 06:12.45 | Amarande | it's still my current console |
| 06:12.52 | Kowh | Don't get me wrong, I have a PS3 and there are lots of fun games for it, but when it's such a dog to develop for that optimized games didn't come out for many years? You screwed up. |
| 06:12.55 | Amarande | just got an HDD upgrade for it at Black Friday too |
| 06:13.15 | Amarande | mind you that's really more to start buying some classics from PSN than to play current games LOL |
| 06:13.28 | Amarande | like the PS2 Shin Megami Tensei stuff that's all available now |
| 06:13.32 | Kowh | Heh. I've got a PS2, 3 and 4. |
| 06:13.51 | Kowh | Also various other consoles, but nothing else from the current gen. |
| 06:14.38 | *** join/#wowuidev Iriel (~Iriel@173-8-135-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 06:14.38 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Iriel] by ChanServ |
| 06:14.44 | Kowh | I'm mildly tempted by the Wii U, finally |
| 06:15.02 | Kowh | For the longest time it seemed like a giant waste of money, when I already had a Wii I didn't play. |
| 06:15.22 | Amarande | I'd pick PS4 over XB1 but still, I don't like the bridge-burning they've been doing on the new gen |
| 06:15.26 | Amarande | since I like my classic games |
| 06:15.30 | Amarande | and PS4 has almost none of that |
| 06:15.58 | Kowh | The classic stuff is going to their streaming service |
| 06:16.27 | Kowh | Which apparently doesn't actually suck that much except for things like fighting games. |
| 06:16.46 | Kowh | I think that's why fewer classics ended up on PSN for PS4 |
| 06:16.49 | Amarande | except isn't it full HD streamed video from the server? |
| 06:16.54 | Kowh | Yep |
| 06:16.58 | Amarande | which basically means nigh useless in the US in particular due to caps :| |
| 06:17.09 | Amarande | a day's gaming? sorry, that's your internet for the month' |
| 06:17.35 | Amarande | possibly less, because if it gets popular it will trigger congestion and then a long gaming session will be considered "unfair to other customers" use and get you sanctioned :P |
| 06:17.37 | Kowh | I don't know what the bitrates are, but it is compressed. |
| 06:17.49 | Kowh | Haven't tried it myself |
| 06:17.58 | Kowh | For the longest time the pricing structure was obscene |
| 06:18.05 | Kowh | $6 for 4 hours or somesuch |
| 06:18.15 | Amarande | and at least if Charter is your cable company, 3 strikes and you're on a minimum 6 month ban, enjoy your AT&T DSL meanwhile |
| 06:18.18 | Kowh | They've finally come out with a subscription |
| 06:18.23 | Kowh | IIRC $20/mo for unlimited |
| 06:18.50 | Amarande | plus the extra $20/mo for an upgrade to business internet so you don't get in trouble with the isp :p |
| 06:19.00 | Kowh | I'm in Canada, which is slightly better. My cap is 300. |
| 06:19.18 | Amarande | we used to have a fixed cap of 250 but now it's apparently something they judge based on congestion and impact |
| 06:19.29 | Amarande | which kind of suggests if streaming services get popular, streamers get punished harder |
| 06:19.46 | Kowh | Also I'm on TekSavvy, which uses the last mile from cable or dsl, and controls the rest. They're very decent. |
| 06:20.09 | Kowh | The duopoly are often playing silly buggers with the last mile though, of course. |
| 06:20.11 | Amarande | plus the whole net neutrality thing, I'm not sure how well Comcast or Charter handle that traffic |
| 06:20.21 | Amarande | hell that's a problem sometimes for people with FF14 |
| 06:20.39 | Amarande | Square didn't craft the protocol based on things like "not getting mistaken for P2P" so ... |
| 06:20.56 | Kowh | But TekSavvy explicitly doesn't throttle (except if you ask for it, they have a primetime throttling they offer in exchange for $5/mo off and no cap). |
| 06:21.04 | Amarande | actually had to turn off QoS on the router for exactly that reason, I kept getting booted because of it, and it turned out the router was squeezing my upstream down to nothing |
| 06:21.10 | Kowh | Nor block servers, etc. |
| 06:21.24 | Amarande | as in I tried speedtest soon after disconnecting ... I got literally 20Mbps down and 0 up |
| 06:21.41 | Amarande | excluded the router, got 55Mbps down and 3 up, which is about what I should be getting |
| 06:22.05 | Amarande | turned off QoS on the router and it became stable at 20Mbps down and 3 up (even when it wasn't throttling my virtual neck, I was only getting 1 up due to crappy QoS implementation) |
| 06:22.18 | Amarande | (seems that the CPU on the router isn't good enough to handle more than 20Mbps down, sadly) |
| 06:22.46 | Amarande | didn't really think much of it till recently since we used to be on 30/3, then Charter doubled everyone so it's 60/3 now |
| 06:26.24 | Amarande | ... good god. are windwalker monks really that bad now? |
| 06:27.07 | Amarande | according to noxxic they're apparently the worst overall DPS class (given that not only do 1H and 2H WW rank at #24 and 26 out of 27, but every other class has a DPS option that's better) |
| 06:27.49 | Kowh | I'm on 28/1. I could go to 60/10, but eh, more money. |
| 06:28.24 | Kowh | I never cared for monk dps. I like monk healing, and I know lots of people who like monk taking. |
| 06:28.39 | Kowh | Had my warrior so didn't really give monk tanking a try |
| 06:29.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Ironi (~ironi@85-76-84-13-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 06:33.38 | Kowh | Mind, I dislike *all* melee dps without decent closers. |
| 06:34.00 | Kowh | Does monk dps have something other than the roll? |
| 06:42.25 | Amarande | hmm, I forget |
| 06:42.32 | Amarande | my last monk I only leveled to about 40-ish |
| 06:42.47 | Amarande | Was on a pvp server, and things got too hairy at that point |
| 06:42.57 | Amarande | especially with entitled hunters these days |
| 06:43.33 | Amarande | you know, distribute rare pet skins through the world and next thing you know max level hunters camp an entire questing area for the pet and kill everyone trying to do the quests because they might ruin their chance |
| 06:43.57 | Amarande | as opposed to losing a fight with someone around your level, that's just one's own scrubby fault :) |
| 06:44.32 | Kowh | Ah, yeah. |
| 06:44.43 | Kowh | I always go PvE. |
| 06:44.44 | Amarande | well that and the fact that pvp server horde probably are gone soft when it comes to leveling pvp |
| 06:45.07 | Amarande | because before 5.0, you basically were leveling PvE, as, say, Alliance native to Illidan are about as rare as liberal NRA members |
| 06:45.08 | Kowh | I like the idea of PvP anywhere, but the practice is that it's always the sort of pvp that is no fun. |
| 06:45.23 | Amarande | then we got CRZ, and now we get a normal proportion heh |
| 06:45.50 | Kowh | I get pulled over to PvP servers occasionally while doing group finder stuff |
| 06:45.59 | Kowh | Almost never actually pvp |
| 06:46.05 | Kowh | Everyone ignores the other faction |
| 06:46.10 | Amarande | could have been a product of the level I suppose |
| 06:46.24 | Amarande | 40-45 is when you first have a really tight selection of zones |
| 06:46.35 | Kowh | I hear open world pvp is pretty rare these days, compared to way back when. |
| 06:46.40 | Amarande | lots of choices in the 30s, in the early 40s though it's either EPL or Thousand Needles and that's about it |
| 06:46.58 | Amarande | protip: pick Thousand Needles if you're PvP, btw |
| 06:47.04 | Amarande | EPL is practically impossible now |
| 06:47.17 | Amarande | so many set piece quests that depend on stuff not getting interrupted for a few minutes |
| 06:47.32 | Kowh | Heh, I did it recently for loremaster. I can imagine. |
| 06:47.37 | Amarande | (if it was any other MMO things like the Battle of Darrowshire would probably be instanced, but this is WoW, and WoW is WoW) |
| 06:49.44 | Amarande | At least it doesn't bug out like Windows 98 anymore, though |
| 06:52.07 | Amarande | anyways I should sleep |
| 07:02.37 | *** join/#wowuidev MiRai (~MiRai@unaffiliated/mirai) |
| 08:31.41 | karl_w_w | is dancer worth more or less than high stamina? |
| 08:44.28 | Simca | that is a good question without a simple answer |
| 08:44.59 | Simca | if you have an uncountered danger zone and the mission is over 7 hours, dancer will contribute 1.5x as much as high stamina to the success chance |
| 08:45.18 | Simca | however, if your danger zones are countered, you get nothing from it. |
| 08:45.37 | Simca | and high stamina applies to virtually all difficult missions (they're pretty much all 8 hours or 24 hours) |
| 08:46.00 | phelps | I seem to have too many followers that counter that, 11 of 25 counter it :| |
| 08:46.58 | Simca | personally i like to save dancer/hearthstone pro for the shitty uncommon followers whose only trait is something bad |
| 08:47.06 | Simca | that way you have a 100% chance to eliminate something bad |
| 08:47.15 | Simca | and a 0% chance to hit something useful |
| 08:47.42 | Simca | like I'm not an alchemist, this guy has alchemy and nothing else, he's just asking for it |
| 08:57.09 | *** join/#wowuidev pompy1 (~Mike@73.33.19.204) |
| 09:01.18 | karl_w_w | do garrison campaign quests unlock at the same time for everyone? |
| 09:02.08 | Semlar | probably not because i never get them |
| 09:02.39 | Semlar | and i don't have one in my log |
| 09:02.42 | Fisker | yes karl_w_w |
| 09:03.54 | Fisker | So you never got any garrison campaign quests Semlar ? |
| 09:03.58 | *** part/#wowuidev Guillotine (~Guillotin@WoWUIDev/Blizzard/Guillotine) |
| 09:04.09 | Semlar | i did, but then they stopped |
| 09:04.23 | Fisker | ok |
| 09:04.25 | karl_w_w | there's one that's hard to spot |
| 09:04.26 | Fisker | when did they stop? |
| 09:04.29 | Fisker | ^^ |
| 09:04.31 | Semlar | the last one i did involved going to nagrand and rescuing some goblin and killing some ogres |
| 09:04.35 | karl_w_w | it's in the druid cavern in the corner for alliance |
| 09:04.41 | Semlar | and when i finished that, i didn't get another one |
| 09:05.31 | Fisker | http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/garrison-campaign-checker <-did you try that? |
| 09:05.57 | Fisker | also remember to do the bonus objective and stuff there just in case |
| 09:07.04 | Semlar | the addon could find no partially completed garrison campaign storylines |
| 09:07.18 | nevcairiel | it doesnt check the bonus objectives unfortunately |
| 09:07.39 | Semlar | are these quests limited to once a week even if you're behind on them |
| 09:07.45 | Fisker | no |
| 09:07.48 | nevcairiel | yes |
| 09:07.55 | Fisker | no nevcairiel |
| 09:07.56 | Semlar | that would be a horrible design |
| 09:08.03 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 09:08.13 | Fisker | I was like 3 weeks behind and got all of them |
| 09:08.17 | nevcairiel | Fisker: guildmate was stuck for a couple weeks as well, he didnt get catch-up quests once he did the one he was missing |
| 09:08.18 | Semlar | since apparently these are important |
| 09:08.34 | Semlar | and there isn't much information about it in game |
| 09:08.35 | Fisker | Maybe your guild mate was stupid |
| 09:08.52 | harl | mojn |
| 09:08.59 | nevcairiel | note that its normal to sometimes get two campaigns in one week |
| 09:09.12 | nevcairiel | so how far are you in the progress Fisker? |
| 09:09.41 | nevcairiel | if you didnt miss anything, you would finish tomorrow |
| 09:09.41 | Fisker | the one in nagrand at the orc camp thing |
| 09:09.47 | nevcairiel | then you are behind |
| 09:10.15 | Semlar | then they should fucking tell us that we're expected to do these every week |
| 09:10.21 | Semlar | because that wasn't clear |
| 09:10.24 | Fisker | Either way I got 3 campaigns on the same day after I found the one that was hidden away |
| 09:11.04 | nevcairiel | that the garrison campaign will drive the story was communicated before launch quite often imho |
| 09:11.17 | nevcairiel | but if you dont do them, all you miss out is story, so its not like its super crucial |
| 09:11.30 | Semlar | how about in-game |
| 09:11.56 | Semlar | like OH BY THE WAY THERE'S A SUPER IMPORTANT QUEST AVAILABLE THAT YOU AREN'T ON |
| 09:12.13 | nevcairiel | what makes you think its so super important :p |
| 09:12.25 | Semlar | it's supposed to be advancing the garrison |
| 09:12.31 | nevcairiel | it doesnt |
| 09:12.34 | nevcairiel | its just story |
| 09:12.45 | Semlar | oh well then why am i doing it |
| 09:13.02 | nevcairiel | it rewards a few random toys and whatnot? |
| 09:13.04 | nevcairiel | what do i know |
| 09:13.41 | nevcairiel | all the big rewards are in the legendary quest line, and one can argue that the legendary quest marker thing is a good enough give away for "do this!!!!111" |
| 09:15.07 | nevcairiel | of course there may be more substantial rewards in the campaign quest line at a later time, that i cannot tell you |
| 09:15.14 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:16.43 | nevcairiel | if you did them every week, all you would be missing now is primal fury |
| 09:16.57 | nevcairiel | and you would be able to do that one as of tomorrow (or today in the US) |
| 09:16.58 | Semlar | yeah i don't quest |
| 09:18.33 | Semlar | if the completion of the final garrison campaign does something important i'm blaming you |
| 09:18.51 | nevcairiel | you can only blame yourself for being a lazy slacker |
| 09:19.47 | nevcairiel | in any case this part of the campaign doesnt do anything big, rewards a follower at the end i think |
| 09:19.53 | nevcairiel | the next part in 6.1, i didnt check yet |
| 09:20.08 | karl_w_w | thisalee crow's eyes look completely ridiculous |
| 09:20.20 | Semlar | doesn't matter if this part does anything important because i'll forever be like 3 weeks behind or whatever |
| 09:20.40 | nevcairiel | well there is some time to catch up before 6.1 comes |
| 09:20.43 | Semlar | this type of gating is retarded |
| 09:21.48 | sb | didnt even start garrison campaign |
| 09:22.26 | Semlar | i'm on a campaign against garrison campaigns |
| 09:23.31 | karl_w_w | when you reroll a follower the first counter doesn't change right? |
| 09:23.42 | nevcairiel | everything c hanges |
| 09:23.53 | Semlar | war never changes |
| 09:23.54 | nevcairiel | unless they have something special like bodyguard, that sticks |
| 09:24.02 | karl_w_w | bum |
| 09:45.45 | karl_w_w | so a bunch of people in my guild were coincidentally online at the same time |
| 09:45.55 | karl_w_w | the moment I mentioned that fact I DCed |
| 09:53.01 | Semlar | well i hope you learned your lesson |
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| 10:31.12 | Mr_Rabies | you have to look up a follower on say, wowhead to see what they always get |
| 10:31.17 | Mr_Rabies | as far as i know that never changes |
| 10:31.47 | Mr_Rabies | like if one always starts with something to counter minions, they'll keep that same ability if you reroll |
| 10:32.03 | Semlar | i don't know about that |
| 10:32.58 | Semlar | can you reroll their main abilities? |
| 10:33.36 | Semlar | i've never seen a reroll item |
| 11:03.41 | karl_w_w | i was pretty sure you couldn't reroll the first main ability for non-inn-recruited followers, but the other you could |
| 11:03.50 | karl_w_w | but the people of the channel say both reroll |
| 11:08.02 | nevcairiel | the current re-roll items reroll everything |
| 11:08.41 | nevcairiel | 6.1 adds items which only reroll abilities or only traits |
| 11:08.44 | nevcairiel | but sitll both abilities |
| 11:16.42 | haste | Neffi: oUF has been around since 2006 :P |
| 11:17.02 | haste | Neffi: and 2008 in its current form |
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| 12:37.03 | Mr_Rabies | as far as i know they won't lose anything they're guaranteed to start with |
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| 12:42.04 | nevcairiel | then you know wrong |
| 12:42.16 | Semlar | if it rerolls their abilities wouldn't it just give them a random ability for their class |
| 12:42.23 | nevcairiel | it does |
| 12:42.54 | nevcairiel | i re-rolled my croman, who has a guaranteed start ability, and he got an entirely different one |
| 12:43.22 | nevcairiel | the only things that dont go away are unique things like bodyguard, blooks combat experience, nats fishing, etc |
| 12:44.46 | Fisker | nevcairiel |
| 12:45.07 | Fisker | I think at some point it was possible to reroll fishing and the like |
| 12:45.18 | Fisker | At least people kept warning to reroll them because of that |
| 12:45.30 | Fisker | So it could be they just changed it a while back |
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| 15:13.39 | jleclanche | I like how shift-p went quite quickly from "pets & mounts" to "all the shit that used to clog your inventory" |
| 15:13.50 | jleclanche | wonder how many tabs it will have within the next 24 months |
| 15:15.16 | fewyn | heirlooms? |
| 15:15.21 | fewyn | tabards? |
| 15:16.50 | Ressy | tabards would be nice. |
| 15:17.04 | Ressy | surprised it wasn't added before heirlooms. |
| 15:17.17 | Ressy | I have 2 1/2 bags of tabards I would love to add. |
| 15:17.27 | nevcairiel | tabards are kinda pointless though |
| 15:17.38 | nevcairiel | you cant really do anything with them other than collecting |
| 15:17.39 | Ressy | For some of the old stuff, tabards get you rep. |
| 15:17.48 | Ressy | good for levelling up. |
| 15:17.50 | nevcairiel | well and those are practically free at a vendor |
| 15:18.14 | Ressy | yeah, but running around to get'em is annoying, when you're not even questing to level - just chain instancing |
| 15:18.36 | Ressy | i got 2 levels in 2 instances last night.. |
| 15:19.53 | jleclanche | Ressy: go to stormwind/org, tabard vendor |
| 15:24.24 | sb | Ressy: is that blacklight .ca passport stuff a real thing? :o |
| 15:24.42 | fewyn | yes |
| 15:24.44 | fewyn | it is |
| 15:24.48 | fewyn | i'm not canadian though |
| 15:25.15 | fewyn | had a friend saying people are stupid for showing pictures of it and not blacking out their ids that are printed on it |
| 15:25.50 | Ressy | the pictures I saw only showed the middle pages - the visa stamp pages.. |
| 15:25.54 | Ressy | and not the actual id page. |
| 15:26.03 | nevcairiel | yeah only the empty visa pages |
| 15:27.27 | Fisker | Ressy |
| 16:08.22 | Thunder_Child | I should get me one, but unless I can find my birth cert. it is going to be a huge pain in the ass. |
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| 16:41.20 | Ressy | Thunder_Child: You can pay $40 and order a new birth certificate. |
| 16:41.48 | Thunder_Child | Ressy: I was looking it up and it was saying something about needing people to vouch for me. |
| 16:42.45 | Ressy | family? |
| 16:42.55 | Thunder_Child | Specifically People living in canda with certain jobs. |
| 16:43.11 | Ressy | ah. that. |
| 16:43.52 | Ressy | any ID? |
| 16:44.12 | Thunder_Child | Huh? |
| 16:44.53 | Thunder_Child | Ah yes, "guarantor". |
| 16:46.12 | Thunder_Child | Luckally that's not an issue, I have family in CA that cover all the bases, but I want to find my Cert. before I bother them. |
| 16:46.24 | Thunder_Child | Well, try to anyway. |
| 16:46.51 | Ressy | definitely.. :) |
| 16:49.24 | d[karl]b | has anyone ever heard of Raptr? |
| 16:49.58 | Ressy | yup |
| 16:51.24 | Teht | Is there a table available via the API that contains all units in range? |
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| 16:59.45 | karl_w_w | not even slightly, Teht |
| 17:00.04 | karl_w_w | the best you can do is loop through all your raid members and check if they are in range |
| 17:04.49 | karl_w_w | why the hell did i get a steam toast from the endless legend group |
| 17:04.56 | karl_w_w | I'm not a member of that group |
| 17:06.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Constie (~Constie@cust-95-80-58-88.csbnet.se) |
| 17:07.46 | jleclanche | gms are fucking useless |
| 17:08.00 | jleclanche | "bugged quest, can't hand in" used to be a problem they could handle |
| 17:08.30 | jleclanche | im starting to wonder if blizzard isnt outsourcing them to indian call centers with STT technology |
| 17:08.59 | karl_w_w | it's not the garrison quest where you go for a fly is it? |
| 17:09.20 | jleclanche | inn quests |
| 17:09.50 | karl_w_w | you can only hand them in when the person is there |
| 17:10.35 | nevcairiel | the person is always there |
| 17:10.46 | nevcairiel | sometimes they just hide in the basement or an upstairs room |
| 17:11.03 | Fisker | Might have to leave the garrison and go back in but yeah |
| 17:11.05 | nevcairiel | (or at level 1, behind the building) |
| 17:12.37 | jleclanche | three of the quests are bugged |
| 17:12.39 | jleclanche | from the hotfix |
| 17:12.50 | jleclanche | one of them (titanic evolution) never comes back to the inn |
| 17:13.04 | jleclanche | the other two i have are broken from the hotfix there was a few weeks back |
| 17:14.53 | nevcairiel | if its a known game bug, what is a gm to do |
| 17:18.29 | Fisker | fix it |
| 17:19.56 | Simca | probably nothing they can do |
| 17:20.13 | Fisker | They can, but they're not allowed to |
| 17:20.45 | Simca | they can't magically fix game bugs |
| 17:20.46 | Simca | they're not dev |
| 17:20.47 | Simca | s |
| 17:21.06 | Fisker | They can't fix the bug, but they can fix the issue the player have |
| 17:22.04 | Simca | the issue he has is that a quest giver doesn't show up so he can't turn in a quest. completing a quest for a player is very likely not something they can do (it isn't something I'd program in, since it varies with so many conditions |
| 17:23.10 | Fisker | oh they can |
| 17:25.49 | pompy1 | jleclanche: the garrison campaign quest for shattrath is bugged, how the fuck have they not fixed that yet |
| 17:26.03 | pompy1 | couldnt get it done before reset this morning |
| 17:26.05 | jleclanche | nevcairiel: hand in the quest for me |
| 17:26.13 | nevcairiel | pompy1: its not generally bugged |
| 17:26.14 | jleclanche | thats what i asked, and i know for a fact they used to be able to do that |
| 17:26.23 | pompy1 | i server switched in groups |
| 17:26.26 | pompy1 | still didnt let me click |
| 17:26.27 | pompy1 | yeah |
| 17:26.30 | pompy1 | annoying. |
| 17:26.46 | nevcairiel | do it after reset then! |
| 17:26.56 | pompy1 | yeah gunna try today! |
| 17:27.01 | nevcairiel | preferably after a server restart |
| 17:27.04 | pompy1 | i hope this weeks campaign shows up after |
| 17:27.07 | nevcairiel | that usually helps |
| 17:27.21 | nevcairiel | well if you're only on shattrath today, you are behind weeks anyway :p |
| 17:27.28 | Simca | it's only been bugged for 12 weeks |
| 17:27.33 | pompy1 | indeed |
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| 17:28.35 | Simca | nevcairiel: and since he can't progress, he has to waste an additional week of no garrison campaign just to attempt to do this quest before it bugs out on his server again |
| 17:28.43 | Simca | it's a great bug |
| 17:29.09 | nevcairiel | maybe he shouldnt have waited until monday night before the reset to do it then! |
| 17:29.16 | pompy1 | shhhh |
| 17:29.27 | Simca | friend has been trying since wednesday |
| 17:29.35 | Simca | i would make sure to do it right after reset |
| 17:30.33 | nevcairiel | i didnt have any troubles, but i always do them right on reset day |
| 17:30.47 | Simca | same |
| 17:32.29 | pompy1 | well a GM just granted me an achievement to work around a brawler's guild invitation item issue. Hope that grants me access :o. |
| 17:34.49 | pompy1 | Oh hey, the shattrath banner is clickable on my own server. |
| 17:35.29 | Fisker | :O |
| 17:36.02 | Simca | if you're US, the reset happened a few hours ago |
| 17:36.19 | kd3 | oh wow, the alliance side garrison campaign today. >.< |
| 17:36.57 | nevcairiel | the last one? |
| 17:37.00 | nevcairiel | primal fury? |
| 17:37.30 | karl_w_w | hey Fisker, try getting a reservation at Dorsia now |
| 17:37.30 | kd3 | huh, I must've missed a week's. the baros/thorn one |
| 17:37.41 | Simca | ah |
| 17:37.47 | nevcairiel | yes you must have then |
| 17:37.49 | Fisker | huh karl_w_w ? |
| 17:37.51 | nevcairiel | i had that one last week |
| 17:38.15 | karl_w_w | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYVl6mOhLJQ |
| 17:38.16 | nevcairiel | unless EU is one week ahead for some reason |
| 17:38.25 | Simca | it isn't |
| 17:38.40 | pompy1 | they didn't even add audio to the dialog for that quest, lame. |
| 17:39.13 | nevcairiel | kd3: well that quest had one winner, a dwarf got promoted |
| 17:39.20 | kd3 | true |
| 17:39.46 | Simca | for horde side some random grunt nobody cares about goes missing and turns up dead |
| 17:39.54 | Simca | real emotional impact |
| 17:40.01 | Simca | i cried for years |
| 17:40.24 | nevcairiel | the alliance one was actually kinda sad |
| 17:40.47 | Simca | yeah i read it |
| 17:42.33 | Simca | my favorite part of this week's is the first part where choluna and thisalee just sit on the cliff and are like "i guess we'll have to deal with that gronn" |
| 17:42.47 | Simca | which translates to "we'll sit on our asses and do nothing while you kill that gronn" |
| 17:42.53 | nevcairiel | dont spoil it, us EUsians didnt have it yet |
| 17:43.02 | Simca | ah ok |
| 17:43.14 | nevcairiel | tomorrow is our reset |
| 17:44.43 | pompy1 | At least it doesn't lock you out of the current weeks garrison campaign if you have an in progress one from the following week (after finally finishing the in progress one). |
| 17:45.22 | nevcairiel | but if you stockpile them for weeks it wont let you catch up anymore |
| 17:45.57 | pompy1 | mine this week is "Garrison Campaign: The Search for Shadow Hunter Bwu'ja" |
| 17:47.13 | Simca | i forget but i think that is the one where you go to the warsong camp |
| 17:47.28 | nevcairiel | nah its all in stonefury cliffs |
| 17:47.37 | Simca | ah |
| 17:47.50 | Simca | different missing shadow hunter then >.> |
| 17:48.10 | pompy1 | ekk the apexis daily is the skettis one.. worst area! |
| 17:48.20 | nevcairiel | nah the other one is worse |
| 17:48.23 | nevcairiel | whats it called |
| 17:48.30 | Simca | it's not that bad once you get used to it |
| 17:48.40 | pompy1 | ashran pvp? :P |
| 17:48.43 | nevcairiel | the shadow council one in the area thats technically in shadowmoon but belongs to arak |
| 17:49.03 | Simca | that one is just a simple 'kill stuff' |
| 17:49.12 | nevcairiel | they are all simple kill stuff :P |
| 17:49.29 | Simca | and it has a cool void portal you go into where all the mobs give you stacks towards becoming a void demon |
| 17:49.41 | Simca | and once you do, gg pull everything complete daily with one aoe spell |
| 17:53.05 | pompy1 | I think the 20 or 25 follower at a time cap is silly |
| 18:02.37 | Stanzilla | GMs are super useless nowadays |
| 18:02.50 | pompy1 | lol |
| 18:05.04 | jleclanche | Shirik: happy birthday |
| 18:07.48 | Fisker | hope you don't die Shirik |
| 18:07.57 | Fisker | If it's true that is |
| 18:11.51 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 18:11.51 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Lopeppeppy] by ChanServ |
| 18:17.10 | Teht | karl_w_w: Not looking for raid members, and not talking about spell casting range or anything |
| 18:17.37 | Teht | Just figured there'd be some kind of collection that has units, like mobs and corpses, etc |
| 18:17.56 | karl_w_w | nah, all you can check is the standard targets |
| 18:18.04 | Teht | Annoying |
| 18:18.07 | karl_w_w | raid members, player target, mouseover etc |
| 18:18.21 | Teht | Trying to figure out if I can simplify the act of selecting corpses to loot |
| 18:18.25 | Teht | So far not much luck |
| 18:18.41 | Teht | i.e. for handicapped people who can't use a mouse, so can't mouse over and select the corpse |
| 18:19.00 | Teht | Everything else is there since you can click to move and interact with target to loot the corpse |
| 18:19.13 | Teht | But actually getting the corpse targetted is the holdup |
| 18:19.28 | Teht | Since all the blizzard targetting functions always prefer live targets to anything dead. |
| 18:20.39 | karl_w_w | I'm pretty sure it's not possible, but that is the sort of thing they might fix if you ask them |
| 18:21.00 | Fisker | spots Lopeppeppy |
| 18:21.22 | karl_w_w | nobody spots anymore Fisker |
| 18:21.29 | Fisker | Darn |
| 18:21.47 | Fisker | tacklehugs Lopeppeppy then |
| 18:22.06 | Lopeppeppy | I get spots all the time, measles are back in season. |
| 18:23.35 | Fisker | It wasn't me though |
| 18:25.37 | *** join/#wowuidev Eol (~kvirc@wsip-184-178-217-18.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 18:26.10 | Eol | So I'm pretty sure that you guys probably don't know the answer; but what kind of effort would it be for blizzard to add vignettes to pre-mop rares? Is it a database setting, or would it be more complicated? |
| 18:29.11 | [TOM_RUS] | they still not added them? |
| 18:30.21 | Eol | Nope. Would be really nice if they could, but they haven't. |
| 18:38.12 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.171) |
| 18:43.45 | karl_w_w | oh god Fisker I just remembered |
| 18:43.46 | Simca | Eol: it isn't that simple. The vignette system is (for now) needlessly complicated. The Vignettes are separate entities from the npcs/objects/events they represent, so they'd have to add a new entry for every new vignette |
| 18:44.05 | karl_w_w | when twilight drake used to be a 1/1 that gained +1/+1 for each card in hand |
| 18:44.09 | Fisker | Are they bunnies? |
| 18:44.10 | karl_w_w | what dark times they were |
| 18:44.40 | Eol | Ah, I figured it would be difficult |
| 18:44.43 | Eol | Very sad. |
| 18:45.14 | Simca | it's done that way so that they can call a group of 3 rares "Protectors of the Grove" instead of their individual names |
| 18:45.17 | Simca | and things like that |
| 18:45.58 | Dagmar | Like the Brotherhood of Ass-whoop that patrols around Shattrath |
| 18:46.00 | Eol | Would be nice if they could throw us a bone and do like time lost protodrake, aoexxna and some hunter rares |
| 18:54.42 | karl_w_w | that doesn't sound like a very good reason Simca |
| 18:55.24 | karl_w_w | surely they could just put |
| 18:55.33 | karl_w_w | "vignette name" on the npc |
| 18:55.43 | karl_w_w | and check nearby NPCs for vignettes |
| 18:55.55 | Eol | Well, I'm going to assume Simca is correct in how it operates. |
| 18:56.00 | karl_w_w | probably |
| 18:56.04 | Eol | Whether or not that was a dumb choice of programming is up for debate |
| 18:56.24 | Eol | Regardless, it would be nice if they could add them for some of the more popular rares |
| 19:00.54 | Simca | karl_w_w: there are rares whose names are mispelled in their vignette |
| 19:01.04 | Simca | so for god knows what reason, they do that shit manually |
| 19:01.18 | Simca | maybe data entry people are so cheap that the dev time is better spent elsewhere |
| 19:04.00 | *** join/#wowuidev Xinhuan (~xinhuan@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/xinhuan) |
| 19:09.07 | karl_w_w | I like how humans have mastered the art of procrastination |
| 19:09.21 | karl_w_w | almost everything we do is procrastination |
| 19:09.26 | *** join/#wowuidev alestane (~nevin@c-71-232-236-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.26 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v alestane] by ChanServ |
| 19:09.48 | karl_w_w | we work so that we can spend money on concentrated bursts of procrastination |
| 19:10.12 | karl_w_w | and most work is done to provide a good or service that will allow somebody else to procrastinate |
| 19:10.45 | Dagmar | It's more efficient to get all the procrastination out of the way at once. |
| 19:11.15 | karl_w_w | we maintain relationships so we can support each other's procrastination |
| 19:12.45 | karl_w_w | we've managed to get ridiculous efficiencies out of the basic requirements for survival so that they don't get in the way of procrastination |
| 19:22.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Kultzi (~ironi@85-76-10-109-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:32.27 | Simca | i thought the garrison campaign quest this week being bugged so that all 40 orc enemies forget what they're doing and utterly obliterate you was a PTR bug |
| 19:32.31 | Simca | I thought wrong |
| 19:32.34 | Simca | fun times |
| 19:35.21 | Simca | http://i.imgur.com/umXbgPA.jpg |
| 19:36.52 | Simca | oh and the final quest is still bugged to not reward the follower |
| 19:36.56 | Simca | also not a PTR bug |
| 19:37.28 | Simca | both bugs that any person running through this a total of 1 time would have noticed... somebody in Blizz QA should be fired |
| 19:40.56 | pompy1 | https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/heroes-of-the-storm-founders-pack |
| 19:43.04 | Simca | haha maldivia saw an ad for that in the Battle.net app last May (some blizzard accident since nobody else got it). a lot of people were skeptical because heroesnexus was the only place that had a picture of that ad (through him) and now it is finally verified |
| 19:45.43 | Primer | I transfered a character from one realm to another yesterday, so I copied WTF/Me/Account/OldRealm/OldToonName WTF/Me/Account/NewRealm/NewToonName, ran some sed scripts to replace the old name and realm, yet some addons apparently put their shit in WTF/Me/Account/SavedVariables/AddonName.lua using ["OldToonName - OldRealm"]. Isn't there a fucking standard for this yet? |
| 19:47.16 | Simca | the first directory you mentioned is for SavedVariablesPerCharacter |
| 19:47.26 | Simca | the latter is for SavedVariables |
| 19:48.10 | Simca | the problem with SavedVariablesPerCharacter is that you can't copy a set from one character to the other, so some addons just implement everything in SavedVariables and store it by character name |
| 19:48.51 | Neffi | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.33 | Neffi | the reason being why Simca said. if I want to copy my profile from another character to a new character, it has to be globally accessible. |
| 19:50.21 | Fisker | only if anybody from Blizzard QA tested it Simca |
| 19:50.36 | Simca | yeah obviously they didn't, since a quest reward is literally broken |
| 19:50.45 | Simca | ideally, Ace3 (and other addons) would use both. they'd store all the profiles in SavedVariables and assign the profiles to each character in SavedVariablesPerCharacter |
| 19:50.59 | Simca | but almost none of them do that for whatever reason |
| 19:53.44 | Fisker | lol @ heroes of the storm |
| 20:06.43 | Maldivia | Simca :) |
| 20:11.44 | jleclanche | I wonder if eg. youtube can figure out which of its users torrent based on bandwidth heuristics |
| 20:11.51 | jleclanche | and by can i mean does |
| 20:11.59 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.171) |
| 20:12.08 | Primer | hrmm? |
| 20:12.11 | Primer | Apples and oranges? |
| 20:12.20 | Primer | youtube is not an isp |
| 20:12.39 | jleclanche | yes? that wasnt my point |
| 20:12.52 | jleclanche | youtube can still figure out the bandwidth of their users if they watch sufficiently long videos |
| 20:12.53 | Primer | Then your point is lost on me |
| 20:13.08 | Primer | unlikely, but, go ahead |
| 20:13.20 | jleclanche | you misspelled "easily" |
| 20:14.02 | Primer | because they could just makes 1 BILLION bit rate video and see how much of it you can consume? |
| 20:14.17 | Primer | To determine you're on, say, google fiber? |
| 20:14.21 | jleclanche | what? |
| 20:14.32 | jleclanche | torrent heuristics work on lower bounds, not upper bounds |
| 20:14.38 | Primer | explain how a video provider determines your total bandwidth |
| 20:14.44 | jleclanche | they dont |
| 20:14.52 | jleclanche | they determine how your bandwidth changes over time |
| 20:14.59 | jleclanche | the bandwidth available to the video site |
| 20:15.17 | Primer | still not buying it |
| 20:15.45 | jleclanche | not buying what? that it's feasible? |
| 20:16.04 | Neffi | you mean they would try to see how constrained your bandwidth is because your client is eating some of it up? |
| 20:16.06 | Neffi | i don't see it |
| 20:16.32 | jleclanche | here's what I'm seeing. youtube already does gather their users' available bandwidth. that part is easy |
| 20:16.37 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 20:16.44 | Primer | I'll give you that |
| 20:16.57 | Primer | especially since they can run flash apps on your browser |
| 20:17.32 | jleclanche | so they could fairly easily correlate sudden lower spikes of bandwidth with downloads |
| 20:17.45 | Primer | which means nothing, btw |
| 20:17.48 | jleclanche | yes, it's very error prone |
| 20:18.06 | jleclanche | and they couldnt really tell between a regular download that eats up 95% of bandwidth and a torrent |
| 20:18.08 | zenzelezz | + |
| 20:18.14 | jleclanche | but even then |
| 20:18.28 | Neffi | so what are you trying to get at here? |
| 20:18.44 | jleclanche | holy fuck Neffi I'm not trying to get anywhere. it's a thought |
| 20:18.49 | Primer | He just got a job and was asked to do this |
| 20:18.59 | Primer | Go blackhat! |
| 20:19.02 | jleclanche | ... |
| 20:19.05 | Neffi | woah man, just trying to get a grip on your reasoning |
| 20:19.24 | jleclanche | Primer: i was torrenting and watching youtube and it occured to me, youtube could fairly easily figure out that I am torrenting |
| 20:19.32 | Primer | again, unlikely |
| 20:19.35 | jleclanche | based on what platform I am on, my usual bandwidth and general traffic patterns |
| 20:19.41 | Neffi | that's really a jump though |
| 20:19.46 | jleclanche | unlikely that they do it? perhaps. feasible? i think so |
| 20:19.47 | Primer | agreed |
| 20:19.54 | Neffi | all they can see is that they don't have all of your bandwidth at their disposal |
| 20:19.57 | Primer | no, unlikely to be easily done |
| 20:20.04 | Kesava | i mean what are you trying to get at here |
| 20:20.14 | Primer | I guess he's paranoid |
| 20:20.21 | Primer | the fact that he's torrenting is eating at him |
| 20:20.34 | jleclanche | oh yes, I'm so paranoid about it Im talking about it in a publicly logged channel Primer |
| 20:20.37 | Neffi | don't worry, jleclanche. the NSA already knows what you do. |
| 20:20.38 | jleclanche | you have logic problems dude. |
| 20:20.48 | Primer | haha |
| 20:20.48 | Kesava | oh no one reads IRC |
| 20:21.02 | zenzelezz | I wonder how much Youtube data my ISP actually caches. Their DNS routes a fair share through them AFAIK |
| 20:21.03 | Neffi | jleclanche: irc is for leet hackers who want to talk in private |
| 20:21.10 | Neffi | using leetspeak |
| 20:21.21 | jleclanche | "jleclanche torrenting" on google literally brings up irc conversations about it |
| 20:21.26 | jleclanche | like really |
| 20:21.29 | karl_w_w | hey Fisker, what's the worst card in hearthstone and why is it blessed champion? |
| 20:21.38 | Primer | I guess you can expect the FBI at your door soon then |
| 20:21.42 | Neffi | jleclanche: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ |
| 20:22.00 | Neffi | DECODE THE BACKDOOR |
| 20:22.12 | Primer | anyhow, I'd be more worried about my ISP knowing I was torrenting than youtube |
| 20:22.21 | Primer | and they can VERY EASILY determine that |
| 20:22.23 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 20:22.28 | jleclanche | yes, and we already know ISPs can do it |
| 20:22.32 | Primer | unike youtube... |
| 20:30.12 | zenzelezz | remember the outcry when "deep packet inspection" first became a (public) thing? |
| 20:33.03 | jleclanche | Primer: my point is that it's a potential vector nobody really thinks about |
| 20:33.14 | jleclanche | youtube is ever-present for a lot of people |
| 20:35.02 | jleclanche | also it was just a random thought. i dont know wtf is your problem trying to deface that |
| 20:40.14 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@ool-182d7861.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:40.30 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 20:48.53 | Neffi | umm, is wallbase.cc no more? |
| 20:51.17 | Primer | deface? |
| 20:51.28 | Primer | Perhaps you're just overly defensive? |
| 20:51.34 | Primer | I just said it was unlikely |
| 20:51.41 | Primer | You're the one that had a cow |
| 20:53.26 | Fisker | not really |
| 20:56.30 | pompy1 | Neffi: some wallpaper site? |
| 20:57.45 | bshelden | Forgot how this was worded... |
| 20:57.47 | bshelden | ~asktoask |
| 20:57.47 | purl | Just ask your question and if someone's around, they'll be glad to help, if they can. |
| 20:58.16 | pompy1 | https://twitter.com/Wallbase/status/509524623466057728 |
| 21:10.11 | *** join/#wowuidev Eol (~kvirc@wsip-184-178-217-18.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:10.54 | Maldivia | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elanlee/exploding-kittens -- seriously, they got 1/2 mill in like 4 hours?! |
| 21:11.43 | Eol | Well, it's the oatmeal |
| 21:11.47 | Eol | and people are suckers for it |
| 21:22.33 | karl_w_w | and it's cats |
| 21:22.57 | karl_w_w | and, you know, laser beams and explosions |
| 21:23.15 | karl_w_w | all it needs is a bit of sideboob and it'll be essence of the internet |
| 21:24.57 | Mihau | The explained game mechanics actually look reasonably well done. It looks like it plays similar to Fluxx. |
| 21:41.47 | Stanzilla | gg SpaceX, 1 billion from google |
| 21:42.01 | Fisker | I'll make spacey |
| 21:42.16 | Stanzilla | inb4 pompy1 links an article about that next week |
| 21:42.46 | Stanzilla | also Fisker a java update =) |
| 21:42.46 | Fisker | inb4 old too |
| 21:42.49 | Fisker | Yeah? |
| 21:42.57 | Stanzilla | yeah |
| 21:42.59 | Stanzilla | for 7 and 8 |
| 21:43.32 | Stanzilla | http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre8-downloads-2133155.html |
| 21:43.47 | Stanzilla | http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/8u31-relnotes-2389094.html |
| 21:43.55 | Fisker | Not much care |
| 21:43.57 | Fisker | :( |
| 21:44.05 | Stanzilla | Starting with JDK 8u31 release, the SSLv3 protocol (Secure Socket Layer) has been deactivated and is not available by default. |
| 21:44.09 | Stanzilla | win |
| 21:44.22 | *** join/#wowuidev Seerah (~RyanNL@104-180-66-29.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:44.23 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+o Seerah] by ChanServ |
| 21:44.53 | Fisker | Good |
| 21:49.28 | Mr_Rabies | http://wow.gamepedia.com/Path_of_Glory makes an appearance in this week's garrison quest :D |
| 21:49.39 | Mr_Rabies | had no clue it was a thing stil |
| 21:51.23 | Neffi | "Close-up on the Path of Glory pavement." |
| 21:51.29 | Neffi | Oh my god!, it's skeletons! |
| 21:51.33 | Neffi | how did I never notice that!? |
| 21:52.18 | Stanzilla | wow.. |
| 21:53.02 | Stanzilla | probably because you were playing on a PC that is even more shitty than your curren laptop back then? :D |
| 21:53.13 | Neffi | yes, that is 100% true |
| 21:53.27 | Neffi | D: |
| 21:56.55 | Mr_Rabies | it's spelled skellingtons |
| 21:56.56 | zenzelezz | for you space people, Atlas V carrying MUOS-3 planned to launch today at 7:23 PM EST |
| 22:04.48 | Eol | Is this the proper way to determine if an addon is installed: if select(4, GetAddOnInfo("SellJunk")) then |
| 22:05.00 | Eol | it's an Ace addon |
| 22:06.11 | Neffi | why the select(4? |
| 22:06.42 | Eol | I have no idea, found that code somewhere |
| 22:07.01 | *** join/#wowuidev cawaker (~textual@69.197.63.142) |
| 22:07.07 | Neffi | well are you asking if it's installed or loaded? because there's IsAddOnLoaded() |
| 22:07.19 | Eol | I guess i'm asking if it's loaded |
| 22:07.33 | Neffi | well there you go. not sure what it returns if the addon doesn't exist at all |
| 22:07.51 | Neffi | but, may I ask?, why do you need to check this? |
| 22:08.05 | Eol | Because I have to hide some of its stuff since it's bleeding into my frame |
| 22:08.14 | Semlar | heh |
| 22:08.23 | Neffi | you're the one adding the extra tab? |
| 22:08.25 | Eol | yes |
| 22:08.35 | Neffi | I'm gonna bet it's happening because you went about adding the tab improperly |
| 22:08.58 | Eol | The vendor frame is not properly coded like the AH is |
| 22:09.03 | Eol | it's a mess |
| 22:09.08 | Neffi | "properly coded" is ambiguous |
| 22:09.18 | Eol | Well, there's no container for its own tabs |
| 22:09.33 | Neffi | what you might want to do is, just add your tab to the vendor frame. when clicked, hide the vendor frame entirely and show your custom frame, which looks like the vendor frame |
| 22:09.49 | Neffi | and then when the other tabs on your frame are clicked, do the opposite |
| 22:10.10 | Neffi | bam, no bleedover, no compat issues |
| 22:10.45 | Neffi | decodes Semlar's backdoor and then goes on IRC and speaks leet to keep his conversations private like shipping channels in the sea or something. |
| 22:11.09 | Semlar | stay out of my backdoor neffi |
| 22:11.34 | Neffi | no, speak leet bro |
| 22:11.44 | Neffi | otherwise people can inspect our backdoors and listen in realtime |
| 22:11.50 | Neffi | if you speak leet there's no records |
| 22:12.16 | *** join/#wowuidev JTF195 (~JTF195@static-173-75-39-6.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:13.37 | Semlar | but i'm illeeterate |
| 22:15.16 | Neffi | you're not even a real hacker |
| 22:15.54 | Semlar | you're not even real |
| 22:16.24 | Neffi | oh god, I'm literally fading away |
| 22:16.59 | Eol | would be funny if you /Nick Neff |
| 22:17.08 | Eol | every couple of minutes chop off a letter |
| 22:22.45 | pompy1 | zenzelezz: indeed, hope the weather plays out |
| 22:23.58 | *** join/#wowuidev Jamash (~Thunderbi@2601:d:880:33:f0c9:d479:d148:11d5) |
| 22:24.02 | zenzelezz | I sure hope so; otherwise I'll have stayed up till 0200 for nothing :D |
| 22:34.14 | pompy1 | zenzelezz: "The poll for cryogenic fueling is complete, and the team has given the "Go" to begin cryogenic fueling operations" |
| 22:39.04 | pompy1 | http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/20/7862297/spacex-google-1-billion-funding-round |
| 22:42.19 | Stanzilla | man I was off by a week |
| 22:42.30 | Stanzilla | fast pompy1 is fast |
| 22:46.05 | pompy1 | Stanzilla: what/ |
| 22:46.17 | pompy1 | >< |
| 22:47.30 | Fisker | Hehe |
| 22:51.16 | Stanzilla | 22:41:38 â Stanzilla: gg SpaceX, 1 billion from google |
| 22:51.16 | Stanzilla | 22:41:53 â Fisker: I'll make spacey |
| 22:51.16 | Stanzilla | 22:42:07 â Stanzilla: inb4 pompy1 links an article about that next week |
| 22:54.35 | pompy1 | not cool |
| 22:55.24 | Stanzilla | I'm Predicter McPredictington |
| 22:56.29 | Fisker | You're cool pompy1 |
| 22:57.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.171) |
| 23:04.35 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@12.165.188.171) |
| 23:23.03 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 23:24.18 | pompy1 | Fisker: thanks |
| 23:24.31 | Fisker | np |
| 23:26.50 | Stanzilla | hugs pompy1 |
| 23:27.48 | Fisker | hugs Stanzilla |
| 23:28.51 | Stanzilla | grouphugs! |
| 23:30.26 | Thunder_Child | leaves. |
| 23:55.09 | Shirik | Cairenn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3u3Xs8sQwQ |
| 23:55.41 | Fisker | Hi Shirik |
| 23:55.47 | Shirik | hey Fisker |
| 23:56.01 | Fisker | Blizzcon? |
| 23:57.29 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@2601:4:4880:4a1:58c4:6ccb:b54d:9526) |
| 23:57.36 | Shirik | mebeh |
