| 00:05.04 | Semlar | someone should convince blizzard to let us create addon channels that don't have anything to do with the chat |
| 00:05.43 | Semlar | they shouldn't have moderators or anything |
| 00:05.58 | Semlar | and they shouldn't interfere with the chat numbers |
| 00:14.00 | foxlit | /join #skynet, clearly |
| 00:14.09 | Semlar | one superchannel |
| 00:14.28 | Semlar | for all addon communication |
| 00:15.08 | foxlit | I really think you need a motivating example there |
| 00:15.19 | foxlit | Complete this sentence: "This would be good for everyone playing the game because..." |
| 00:16.05 | Semlar | well, it's not unreasonable to want to communicate between everyone running your addon |
| 00:16.15 | Guillotine | Semlar: The convincing already happened. Won't make it in for 6.0 though. |
| 00:16.29 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 00:17.05 | Semlar | oh one thing though, right now if you create a channel it's completely local to your realm |
| 00:17.13 | Semlar | even if you're in a crossrealm zone |
| 00:18.01 | Semlar | so it would be nice if you could join a channel specific to that zone that could communicate between other people running that addon on that crz realm |
| 00:18.42 | Guillotine | I don't know that that will happen. But if you want x-server channels, I'd post about it on the suggestions forum. |
| 00:19.49 | Semlar | or maybe just a way to detect what realm you're currently on |
| 00:25.52 | Guillotine | Semlar: Pretty sure that's in 6.0. GetRealmName. |
| 00:26.20 | Semlar | does it return something different than it currently does |
| 00:26.40 | Semlar | right now it tells you your home realm |
| 00:26.45 | Guillotine | Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the "realm you're currently on" |
| 00:26.54 | Guillotine | Ah. |
| 00:26.55 | foxlit | "which CRZ shard" |
| 00:26.57 | Semlar | well, like if you join a group and get transferred to another server |
| 00:27.06 | Guillotine | Got it |
| 00:27.09 | Semlar | right now you can't even detect if you're ON a different server |
| 00:27.49 | Guillotine | I think the idea is that it should be mostly transparent. Is there really any reason you'd need to know that? (Other than knowing if you're now on a PvP server due to BNet invites) |
| 00:28.50 | Semlar | as an example, right now there's an addon that synchronizes rare deaths on the timeless isle so people can track how long it's been since it died |
| 00:28.57 | foxlit | (boo, hiss!) |
| 00:29.44 | Semlar | but since communication is limited to the local realm, and it's possible for you be on a different realm, the addon needs to disable itself to prevent sending data about another server back to the home realm |
| 00:30.12 | Semlar | which right now basically means it disables itself whenever you're in a group |
| 00:30.35 | Guillotine | I see. I don't know that sort of thing is really something we want to be encouraging, but I'll bring it up. |
| 00:30.54 | foxlit | (it's really a game design issue: those timers shouldn't be useful in the first place, but that's hard to do.) |
| 00:31.47 | kd3 | they shouldn't be useful, but crap drop rate and high competition means you need to be at the right place at the right time or it's another 45-60 minutes down the drain |
| 00:31.48 | Semlar | that's understandable, but other examples of addon-wide communication are things like tracking where the zeppelins currently are |
| 00:32.07 | Semlar | to get an idea of when they'll be arriving at a dock |
| 00:32.15 | foxlit | kd3: exactly what I mean by "game design issue" |
| 00:35.29 | foxlit | Could either announce high-reward events well in advance of their potential conclusion (see: ghost ship), or make the spawns sufficiently irregular (respawns sometime in the next 1-12 hours) |
| 00:35.44 | Semlar | Guillotine: i wuv the new UnitPosition function |
| 00:35.47 | foxlit | both would somewhat erode gameplay advantages of knowing when something died. |
| 00:36.16 | Guillotine | Semlar: <3 |
| 00:36.30 | Guillotine | Semlar: It's nothing you guys couldn't do before with the map, but it should make it a lot easier |
| 00:36.57 | Semlar | yeah, it's more convenient |
| 00:36.57 | Neffi | so places in Pandaria still pull you out of stealth randomly |
| 00:36.59 | Neffi | excellent |
| 00:37.17 | Guillotine | Neffi: Maybe you're just not very good at being sneaky. |
| 00:37.45 | Neffi | also if you vanish during Subterfuge, it still pulls you out of stealth |
| 00:38.05 | p3lim | Anyone got a list of atlases? |
| 00:38.14 | p3lim | Or know where to find them |
| 00:39.40 | kd3 | from an interface extraction, here's the result of grep -r atlas=: http://dpaste.com/2RRKTZM |
| 00:40.25 | Simca | you'll need/want UITextureAtlas to do anything useful with them, p3lim |
| 00:40.56 | Simca | I mangled together a bunch of python scripts to deconstruct atlases and output pngs named appropriately |
| 00:41.07 | Simca | if you want that |
| 00:41.28 | Semlar | tries to calm simca down |
| 00:41.44 | Simca | kittens |
| 00:41.52 | Semlar | daw |
| 00:42.18 | p3lim | Simca: Sure |
| 00:43.14 | p3lim | kd3: they can also be used in strings, like so: {Atlas|<atlasttexture>:<size>} |
| 00:44.19 | p3lim | the NPE uses them a lot in strings |
| 00:45.24 | Simca | yeah let me make a doc rq; i have the structure info for those db2s, which is useful |
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| 01:10.38 | Simca | p3lim: https://drive.google.com/#folders/0B66WK3CXV0qlZGJyZWRjM3FBbGc |
| 01:12.27 | Simca | now lemme see if these scripts still work |
| 01:13.45 | kd3 | Knewbie McGreen? seriously? |
| 01:13.48 | kd3 | sighs |
| 01:16.55 | Mr_Rabies | there is no need to be upset |
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| 01:47.26 | Neffi | http://i.imgur.com/ELRrlIR.jpg lol |
| 02:01.00 | TC-Work | I hate Querydict so very much. |
| 02:01.26 | TC-Work | Just thought I should share that. |
| 02:19.13 | pompy | http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/august/nasa-picks-top-earth-data-challenge-ideas-opens-call-for-climate-apps/#.U_f6A2Ne6Uk |
| 02:23.26 | pompy | I'm not sure what he has said on Twitter and such in the past, but still, that's messed up what they did to him: http://gamerant.com/phil-fish-sell-fez-leave-twitter-polytron-hack/ |
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| 02:50.41 | p3lim | Semlar: you were collecting coords or something for rares? |
| 02:51.36 | Semlar | all the rares! |
| 02:51.43 | kd3|hate`net | just about everything but nagrand I've got done on github |
| 02:52.00 | kd3 | https://github.com/kaydeethree/wow-vignettes/blob/master/VignettesTracker/VignettesTracker.lua |
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| 02:53.09 | Semlar | i'm collecting the npcIDs too, since i need to localize their names |
| 02:53.16 | Semlar | and for the model |
| 02:53.39 | Semlar | i'd like to show the model for objects but that is going to be so much work |
| 03:04.07 | p3lim | kd3: Taladorantula is in Talador, he/she is spawned after killing lots of her children |
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| 11:17.59 | *** topic/#wowuidev is http://pastebin.com || 5.4.x ToC: 50400 || #WoWUIDev-commits: CIA & JIRA bots reporting || Battletags: http://goo.gl/2bm7n || This channel is logged, via purl || WoD beta access! WoWI: http://bit.ly/1smb4qM or Curse: http://goo.gl/eVsdYQ || This is a cross-site community channel. |
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| 15:31.04 | Kesava | lootables aren't glowy this build, right? |
| 15:31.22 | Kesava | otherwise i've broken something somewhere |
| 15:57.41 | mikma_ | i don't think that's something you can "break" if it's the edward-sparkling |
| 16:04.02 | Kesava | well they don't sparkle or glow |
| 16:04.14 | Kesava | making it very difficult to do that starter quest in nagrand |
| 16:04.22 | Kesava | since lootables just look like standard props |
| 16:05.01 | Kesava | "look for a crate which looks exactly the same as all these other static crates" |
| 16:05.32 | mikma_ | allllriiight, sounds like a groundbreaking feature! |
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| 18:07.48 | Semlar | Kesava: lootable objects were all super obvious for me |
| 18:08.44 | Semlar | i think i have the glow set to maximum in the interface though |
| 18:09.10 | Kesava | .. |
| 18:09.14 | Kesava | things aren't glowing at all |
| 18:10.02 | Semlar | did they release a new build within the last like 8 hours? |
| 18:10.25 | Semlar | i did a quest earlier and all of the objects had a yellow glow |
| 18:10.51 | Kesava | well it was happening more than 8 hours ago too |
| 18:11.08 | Kesava | and i definitely have the outline mode option on |
| 18:11.11 | Kesava | (i just checked) |
| 18:12.15 | Kesava | i'm also running on linux right now but it would be very unusual for there to be an issue like that that isn't also manfiested elsewhere |
| 18:12.33 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:12.47 | Kesava | yes, i'm not getting that |
| 18:13.41 | Kesava | i suppose i shall delete my config.wtf |
| 18:14.25 | nevcairiel | And your addons while you're at it </GM> |
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| 18:19.40 | Semlar | neffi http://youtu.be/YkYXOcosfFo i don't do any damage |
| 18:19.42 | VIad | Semlar: internal name to npcid list? |
| 18:20.26 | VIad | Valkor 5 man? |
| 18:21.07 | VIad | low dmg output or your dps is bad :p |
| 18:23.17 | fewyn | WHY ISN'T DOCTOR WHO UP YET? |
| 18:23.21 | Kesava | still not getting any glowies after renaming wtf and interface |
| 18:23.30 | Kesava | also dr.who is terrible and makes me ashamed to be british |
| 18:23.39 | fewyn | pours a tuborg super light beer down the throat on Kesava |
| 18:23.53 | fewyn | i really should edit that slap script |
| 18:23.56 | fewyn | the defaults suck |
| 18:24.41 | mikma | did they scale the damage down or something? |
| 18:25.31 | Semlar | well, i only dragged a handful of abilities onto my bar before i went exploring but i think i got the important ones |
| 18:28.34 | Kesava | that's the sign of a good raider |
| 18:28.39 | Semlar | >_> |
| 18:28.51 | Semlar | i can't be bothered with these things! |
| 18:29.06 | nevcairiel | I'm usually also way too lazy to setup new bars |
| 18:29.12 | Semlar | i have disengage and kill command, what more could i need |
| 18:30.42 | Semlar | although did find out my FD hotkey wasn't working after i started |
| 18:30.43 | nevcairiel | Camo |
| 18:32.02 | kd3|hate`net | re lootable objects having distinct models: some of them were, some of them aren't. aruuna crystal mine, for instance, has this: http://wowpedia.org/Aruuna_Mining_Cart there are a few more carts with the exact same model that aren't lootable |
| 18:32.39 | Semlar | yeah the glow doesn't seem to work for every model |
| 18:33.01 | Kesava | i wouldn't have a problem with that if the glowy was working |
| 18:33.18 | Neffi | nice choice of music semlar |
| 18:33.20 | Kesava | it is literally not working at all though, not players, npcs, herbs et |
| 18:33.22 | Semlar | does the glow work at all for anything? |
| 18:33.25 | Kesava | non |
| 18:33.26 | Semlar | like mouseover? |
| 18:33.33 | Kesava | non |
| 18:33.40 | Semlar | interesting |
| 18:33.48 | Semlar | i guess it could be graphics setting |
| 18:34.13 | Semlar | neffi :P |
| 18:34.47 | Semlar | kd3 you don't have a page on valkor yet |
| 18:34.53 | Neffi | aww, I was waiting for that glorious panda death animation |
| 18:35.09 | Semlar | i do cast FD at one point |
| 18:35.26 | Neffi | not good enough! |
| 18:36.08 | Semlar | every time i ran a mob into him i almost got myself killed because it puts a 50% more damage taken debuff on you |
| 18:36.13 | Semlar | and despawned my pet |
| 18:36.53 | Semlar | i didn't know what the guy did before i pulled him so i wanted to record it |
| 18:38.10 | Neffi | fucking windows update restored libraries. i hate libraries |
| 18:39.32 | Semlar | kd3: http://i.imgur.com/L5DNCSr.jpg this guy is in the same cave as http://wowpedia.org/Goren_Leftovers |
| 18:40.37 | Neffi | does anyone know how to prevent Windows from incessently restoring things like Recent Places and Downloads to my Explorer.exe favorites? |
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| 18:45.06 | kd3 | huh, that one got added since the last time I was there |
| 18:45.35 | Semlar | he cast an ability called ESCAPE! or something and burrowed into the ground when i engaged him |
| 18:45.40 | Semlar | and never came back |
| 18:45.48 | Semlar | i don't know if it's possible to kill him |
| 18:45.48 | kd3 | hah |
| 18:47.03 | Semlar | there were some other ones in the area that aren't on wowpedia or your addon |
| 18:47.23 | kd3 | stuff in level 100 areas I have yet to add (and nearly all of nagrand) |
| 18:48.18 | Maldivia | Neffi: the trick is to go to the Links folder, and set the hidden attribute on "Recent Places" |
| 18:48.35 | Semlar | "mother of goren" was at 72.5, 22.8 which i think you might have had marked as a location for gorg'ak the lava guzzler, so they might trade spawn locations |
| 18:48.40 | Kesava | i can't say i've ever had that problem, i just remove it and it stays removed |
| 18:48.43 | Neffi | Maldivia: that's clever. I was trying to prevent Windows from accessing it, but that probably works better |
| 18:48.52 | Kesava | what i do have a problem with is the -fucking language toolbar- |
| 18:49.04 | Neffi | Kesava: Updates occassionally re-add this stuff. It might be related to the fact that I disabled libraries through the registry |
| 18:49.11 | Kesava | i see |
| 18:50.04 | Semlar | kd3: http://i.imgur.com/uC4XpgJ.jpg this is where i found the lava guzzler |
| 18:50.28 | Semlar | so they have multiple spawn points |
| 18:50.47 | kd3 | ugh |
| 18:50.56 | Neffi | ack, that doesn't hide them from the Favorites group in the navigation pane |
| 18:51.09 | Neffi | I guess I'll write a startup script to delete them |
| 18:51.19 | Semlar | and "hoarfrost" i found at 68.1, 19.9, his quest id is 37382 |
| 18:51.59 | Semlar | mother of goren's quest id is 37381 |
| 18:52.39 | Semlar | none of the rares i killed dropped anything but apexis crystals |
| 18:53.24 | kd3 | that's probably all the level 100s should drop. way back in alpha, magnarok was an (overtuned) level 92 area and the rares still drop level 90 armor |
| 18:53.50 | kd3 | well, the bone crawler and gorg'ak, that is. the ones added post-level 100 should just drop the crystals |
| 18:54.03 | Semlar | the bone crawler was also not in the location you had marked |
| 18:54.43 | kd3 | blah. I'll have to redo magnarok the next time I'm up there then. it's been a while since I seriously looked around up there |
| 18:54.49 | Semlar | he was here http://i.imgur.com/lLwHa9K.jpg |
| 18:55.07 | VIad | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tk862BbjWx4#t=231 |
| 18:55.20 | kd3 | ah, he's still in the refuse pit. I just guestimated the coords poorly |
| 18:55.37 | Semlar | yeah i think your coordinates might have just been a little off |
| 18:55.59 | Semlar | i should be standing right on his corpse |
| 18:57.10 | Semlar | i couldn't tell if he was there the whole time, i only noticed him after i looted one of the chimera corpses but that might have been a coincidence |
| 18:57.14 | kd3 | alright, that works. thanks |
| 18:58.44 | kullervo | http://kullervo.dy.fi/pub/drop/pic/CapnRot~Aug-23-2014~Diamond%20Head~2~p3.jpg |
| 18:59.12 | Semlar | valkor had 2.5 million health and took me 4 minutes to kill even with a 50-100% additional damage debuff |
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| 19:00.02 | Semlar | he might be a group target |
| 19:00.43 | kullervo | "might" |
| 19:00.52 | Semlar | >_> might depend on the group |
| 19:01.46 | Semlar | to be fair i'm in whatever greens they provided us with |
| 19:05.24 | fewyn | yesss finally got my minfernal |
| 19:05.42 | fewyn | 1 more pet and i get my zookeeper title |
| 19:05.45 | fewyn | stupid Arctic Fox Kit |
| 19:11.11 | VIad | kullervo: wow needs a cool map like that |
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| 19:11.26 | VIad | guild wars 2 is also one of those games with nice world maps :p |
| 19:11.27 | Semlar | firefall |
| 19:12.53 | Semlar | see, firefall lets you make http requests with your addons |
| 19:13.36 | Semlar | so you could potentially do some crazy things |
| 19:14.50 | VIad | Semlar: why isnt the web available to addons? |
| 19:14.57 | VIad | serious question :P |
| 19:15.23 | VIad | the blizzard support site isnt the only useful thing for people |
| 19:15.36 | Semlar | you couldn't impose any sort of restrictions on what the addon did |
| 19:16.02 | Semlar | like you could really easily implement cross-faction chatting or whatever |
| 19:16.42 | VIad | blizz could be a bottleneck |
| 19:16.50 | VIad | and greenlight useful type of data communication |
| 19:16.56 | VIad | like steam greenlights games |
| 19:17.06 | VIad | valve makes the decision in the end anyway |
| 19:17.18 | Semlar | they couldn't possibly police the information |
| 19:17.21 | VIad | i.e. wowhead could be a data provider and people would vote it, then blizz could if they want, approve it |
| 19:17.32 | VIad | some sort of agreement would help |
| 19:17.44 | Semlar | nah that would add a ton of extra work for blizzard |
| 19:17.49 | VIad | nah |
| 19:18.00 | VIad | let the community fight for their favorite service first |
| 19:18.15 | VIad | make a requirement, like 10 million votes, before blizz even looks at it |
| 19:18.25 | VIad | and you got a pretty small list to go through per year :p |
| 19:18.47 | VIad | like how you can be a fansite of blizz, you promise to be nice and such |
| 19:18.58 | VIad | thats how wowui dont got tons of private server addons |
| 19:18.58 | Semlar | i don't think they want you bringing things from outside the game into the game like that |
| 19:19.03 | VIad | even if blizz dont even monitor the site :P |
| 19:19.06 | VIad | or all its fansites |
| 19:20.37 | VIad | is firefall better off with or without http requests? |
| 19:20.47 | VIad | (those are not monitored at all too) |
| 19:21.30 | Semlar | it reduces immersion |
| 19:21.46 | Semlar | it probably benefits firefall but firefall isn't that engaging to me |
| 19:21.54 | VIad | my experience is alt tabbing to wowhead stuff while afking in the inn or something ;d |
| 19:22.25 | VIad | so breaking immersion is what you do in any case when looking up info :D |
| 19:22.52 | mikma | this raspi + runeaudio is quite handy! http://mikma.reaktio.net/linux/rpi/runeaudio1.png |
| 19:23.16 | Semlar | no i think there's a pretty big difference between browsing the internet from the game and tabbing out to look something up on wowhead |
| 19:23.35 | VIad | both break immersion |
| 19:23.48 | Kesava | breaking immersion is not a valid argument for wow |
| 19:23.50 | VIad | and we still do those things purposefully :p |
| 19:23.58 | Kesava | that said i'm entirely against addons having internet access |
| 19:24.36 | VIad | I think it's more interesting to argue with what would be negative if wow had internet access (limited or limitless) |
| 19:24.40 | VIad | than "I just dont like it" :P |
| 19:24.56 | Kesava | think of what tiny would do with it |
| 19:25.35 | Semlar | look, it would make it too easy to do too many things that would degrade the quality of the game |
| 19:25.36 | VIad | of course |
| 19:25.42 | Kesava | indeed |
| 19:26.05 | VIad | but that argument is kind of a bit irrelevant with us using addons, to make things easier :P |
| 19:26.19 | VIad | might as well remove addons ;) |
| 19:26.41 | Kesava | that's the opposite of degrading the quality of the game |
| 19:27.04 | VIad | like? |
| 19:27.11 | VIad | I already heard loss of immersion |
| 19:27.27 | VIad | even though its a pretty personal oppinion |
| 19:27.32 | Kesava | yes and i said that was a silly argument |
| 19:27.42 | Semlar | it's not that silly |
| 19:28.03 | VIad | what one considers loss of immersion doesnt mean someone else thinks like that too |
| 19:28.05 | Semlar | you have an internet browser directly in the game, irc, whatever |
| 19:28.20 | VIad | questing addons that tell you where to level can be argued to reduce immersion to many people - they just dont use those addons |
| 19:28.41 | Kesava | i just don't think a third person game with action buttons and cooldowns and targeting can ever be immersive |
| 19:28.45 | VIad | playing window mode or on multiple screens already give you the ability to easily look up the net while playing |
| 19:29.25 | Semlar | you can browse the internet OUTSIDE the game, it's very different from being able to just look something up directly from the game |
| 19:29.33 | Mr_Rabies | <Semlar> no i think there's a pretty big difference between browsing the internet from the game and tabbing out to look something up on wowhead |
| 19:29.38 | VIad | what you could achieve with some sort of limited network connectivity is to reduce the need to make libraries and keep those up to date with changes, and instead have a a channel to get the data you need specific to what ever your addons is doing |
| 19:30.03 | Mr_Rabies | i'd argue that looking stuff up on wowhead should be what the developers want to avoid doing, and instead provide ingame info themselves |
| 19:30.58 | Mr_Rabies | having to leave the game to get info for basic/intermediate stuff should be something they want to work on making unnecessary, imo |
| 19:31.01 | VIad | we already do that with addons - what is the name of the wowhead addon again? |
| 19:31.10 | VIad | lightheaded |
| 19:31.11 | VIad | something |
| 19:31.14 | Mr_Rabies | and they are, with the dungeon journal, etc |
| 19:31.16 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, lightheaded |
| 19:31.19 | VIad | basically a database of quests :P |
| 19:31.21 | VIad | ingame |
| 19:31.43 | Semlar | it doesn't mean blizzard wants to make it easier for people to do that |
| 19:31.58 | VIad | to quote garrosh |
| 19:32.00 | VIad | times change |
| 19:32.03 | Mr_Rabies | honestly, i wish they'd just make the launcher take arguments to launch games |
| 19:32.10 | Mr_Rabies | like battle.net.exe -launchwow64 |
| 19:32.17 | VIad | perhaps some day there will be a way to access the net via addons :P |
| 19:32.18 | Mr_Rabies | so i could just have the steam overlay |
| 19:32.38 | VIad | Mr_Rabies: about that |
| 19:32.56 | Kesava | you can just lauch wow with wow-64.exe -launch |
| 19:32.57 | Semlar | you could share way too much god damn information if you could make http requests |
| 19:33.10 | Mr_Rabies | do you have to put in your login detals for that, Kesava? |
| 19:33.17 | Kesava | uh, well, yes |
| 19:33.21 | VIad | Wow-64.exe -launcherlogin -noautolaunch64bit -launch -uid wow_engb |
| 19:33.28 | VIad | thats what my wow.exe got booted up with from the launcher |
| 19:33.55 | VIad | pasting that into run, let's see what happens |
| 19:33.58 | Torhal | launches VIad. |
| 19:33.59 | Mr_Rabies | i like the convenience of logging in with the launcher |
| 19:34.08 | Mr_Rabies | not having to put in my password everytime, etc |
| 19:34.08 | VIad | aw |
| 19:34.10 | VIad | no auto login |
| 19:34.21 | Kesava | do you have the client open? |
| 19:34.30 | karl_w_w | VIad, did you know the river in dota has a name? |
| 19:34.34 | Kesava | i imagine it'd need some extra files from the client to login anyway |
| 19:34.38 | VIad | I didn't karl_w_w lol |
| 19:34.46 | VIad | it is "cry me a river"? |
| 19:34.58 | karl_w_w | its The River Fag |
| 19:35.04 | VIad | joke? |
| 19:35.10 | Mr_Rabies | that's why i'm saying it'd be nice if the client supported launching games directly with command line args |
| 19:35.13 | karl_w_w | that's why people say "don't cross the river fag" |
| 19:35.44 | VIad | http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/18tc9l/the_rivers_name/ |
| 19:36.56 | VIad | "D:\Games\Battle.net\Battle.net\Battle.net.4944\Battle.net.exe" "--gamepath=D:\Games\World of Warcraft" --game=wow_engb |
| 19:37.17 | VIad | that happens if you run World of Warcraft Launcher.exe without battle net running |
| 19:38.10 | Mr_Rabies | because your options now are either launching with the client OR getting a steam overlay |
| 19:38.45 | Mr_Rabies | maybe just having the steam overlay more configurable, like attaching it to games after the fact, would even be nice |
| 19:39.03 | Mr_Rabies | so launch wow, then launch the overlay with args and it attaches to wow |
| 19:46.08 | Kesava | ... well i got to an apparently endless connecting prompt by running it with those -launchlogin |
| 19:46.12 | Kesava | so that's progress |
| 19:46.38 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 19:46.45 | Kesava | didn't they say you'd be able to launch from shortcuts anyway |
| 19:46.48 | Kesava | ages ago |
| 19:46.54 | Kesava | and have yet to do that |
| 19:49.51 | Semlar | neffi i didn't get a speed boost one of the times i used disengage |
| 19:50.16 | Semlar | i think they slightly broke that talent |
| 19:51.28 | Neffi | don't feel bad. i popped SnD the other day and the buff didnt even apply |
| 19:51.35 | Neffi | and the day before, my 30 sec SnD disappeared |
| 19:51.45 | Neffi | this was on live, so it's a bit more irritating |
| 19:52.12 | Semlar | they changed this to only apply the debuff after you land |
| 19:52.16 | Semlar | er buff |
| 19:52.31 | Semlar | and it doesn't always register |
| 19:52.32 | Neffi | I think it was a quest bug though, not an SnD bug. The NPC were applying an ranged aura that seemed to be affecting things like this |
| 19:52.41 | Neffi | ah, that sucks |
| 19:53.22 | Neffi | did they remove your ridiculous stealth detection yet? |
| 19:53.32 | Semlar | no |
| 19:53.38 | Semlar | flares neffi |
| 19:53.41 | Neffi | fucking hunters. ill still own you |
| 19:53.48 | Semlar | orly |
| 19:53.56 | Neffi | i'll just spec shadowstep for you |
| 19:54.15 | Neffi | properly timed, you can Shadowstep->Stun inside a flare |
| 19:54.25 | Neffi | very hard though |
| 19:54.49 | Semlar | into my freezing trap |
| 19:55.30 | Semlar | now you have to cloak |
| 19:55.42 | Semlar | and i can scatter shot you |
| 19:55.43 | Neffi | i have several tricks up my sleeve |
| 19:55.45 | Kesava | let's have an irc duel |
| 19:55.52 | Neffi | scatter shot got removed, no? |
| 19:55.52 | Stanzilla | why cloak the trap |
| 19:55.53 | Stanzilla | useless |
| 19:56.07 | Semlar | scatter shot isn't in the beta but this duel is on live |
| 19:56.24 | Neffi | then why wouldn't I disarm your trap? |
| 19:56.30 | Semlar | because it's in a flare |
| 19:56.52 | Neffi | Blind -> you wander from it slight -> I can avoid it |
| 19:57.16 | Kesava | [2 seconds have now passed] |
| 19:57.22 | Neffi | lol |
| 19:58.08 | Semlar | if this was a real fight you would have already vanished after i cast stampede |
| 19:58.47 | Neffi | or maybe I just LoS you with burst of speed and kill your pet |
| 19:59.19 | Semlar | i doubt killing my pet would be worth it |
| 20:00.10 | Neffi | for what, time? if I can find a pillar to hump, I can probably manage it without getting hit more than once or twice by you |
| 20:00.19 | Neffi | anyway, this duel has been fun but I gotta go shower |
| 20:00.39 | Kesava | and the rogue has gone afk |
| 20:00.40 | *** join/#wowuidev Ycarene (~jporterf@72-24-235-50.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 20:01.16 | Semlar | vanished |
| 20:07.11 | Neffi | Semlar: Oh, I found a kink in your plan. Flare has a 20 sec cooldown, I forgot |
| 20:07.38 | Neffi | As it's about to run out, blind you. If you trinket it, I still have enough time to cover it with a sap. If you don't, I have time for the opener |
| 20:07.42 | Semlar | flare lasts as long as its cooldown |
| 20:07.53 | Neffi | yes, and good luck re-applying it when I can force you not to |
| 20:08.15 | Semlar | you know i can break your stun with bestial wrath |
| 20:08.20 | Neffi | with burst of speed and the huge range of sap, I will cover the broken blind with a sap before you recast flare |
| 20:08.34 | Thunder_Child | Worst E-Peen contest ever. |
| 20:08.41 | Neffi | haha |
| 20:09.06 | Neffi | alright, skidoo and all that. i got a party to go to |
| 20:09.18 | Semlar | is it a pity party |
| 20:10.08 | Semlar | for losing that duel |
| 20:14.25 | VIad | friend list should target unit by default on left click |
| 20:14.36 | VIad | guild roster too, tbh any unit button should /tar on click |
| 20:14.44 | VIad | if it has a "target" option in the dropdown menu |
| 20:15.16 | Mr_Rabies | maybe double click or something |
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| 20:45.19 | foxlit | So I have this macro A: /run A = (A or 0) + 1 /runmacro A /run print(A) |
| 20:45.49 | foxlit | The unfair puzzle of the day: what, if anything, does it print out? |
| 20:46.16 | Neffi | stack overflow? |
| 20:47.08 | foxlit | Good guess, but I think that's only when it tries to figure out what it'll do. |
| 20:47.33 | Neffi | is macro A in slot 1? |
| 20:47.57 | Neffi | if not it should print 2 twice, no? |
| 20:48.00 | Neffi | err, if so* |
| 20:48.15 | foxlit | GetMacroInfo(1) == "A", in any case. I'm actually running this through OPie. |
| 20:48.50 | Semlar | any particular reason you want a macro to call itself |
| 20:49.22 | foxlit | it makes for a neat unfair puzzle. |
| 20:49.48 | Neffi | A = 0 -> run A -> A = 1 -> run A -> A = 2 -> run B -> print(A) -> print(A) |
| 20:50.48 | Neffi | without knowing what B is we can't prove this does anything, or even halts |
| 20:50.57 | foxlit | the global variable and the macro name is unrelated. It really calls itself. |
| 20:51.17 | foxlit | if it makes you happier, the macro A is: /run X = (X or 0) + 1 /runmacro A /run print(X) |
| 20:51.22 | Neffi | I mean B as in the hypothetical GetMacroInfo(2) == 'B' |
| 20:52.07 | Neffi | Ah, I thought you were passing the numeric value of A to /runmacro |
| 20:52.16 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4qADFNsDxE this is disrubing |
| 20:53.12 | Neffi | foxlit: then it should fail to halt or overflow, no? |
| 20:58.00 | foxlit | reasonable, but not what actually happens. |
| 20:58.49 | Neffi | the anticipation is killing me. what happens? |
| 20:58.54 | Semlar | it's a secret neffi |
| 20:59.30 | foxlit | If you were to put /click ActionButton1 on ActionButton1, it actually wouldn't do much, since you can't trigger the Click handler from within a Click handler. |
| 21:00.27 | Neffi | ah, I thought the hardware event was recognized down the whole chain? |
| 21:00.30 | Semlar | then how do macros click other macros |
| 21:00.55 | Semlar | actually, i know the hardware event propagates the whole chain |
| 21:01.02 | Semlar | i wrote an addon based on it |
| 21:01.03 | Neffi | did you figure this out trying to implement unlimited length macros via a click chain? |
| 21:01.03 | foxlit | you can click *other* buttons. It's only clicking some button that's *currently being clicked* that does nothing. |
| 21:01.25 | Neffi | ah! that's quite a gotcha puzzle |
| 21:01.46 | foxlit | But anyway, my point is that I don't have enough patience to create enough buttons to force /click-chaining to produce a stack overflow. |
| 21:03.13 | Semlar | oh, the fact that you can't click a button that's already in the clicked state is why you can exploit one of the button methods to block a spell from going through based on arbitrary conditions |
| 21:04.30 | Neffi | how so? |
| 21:05.46 | Semlar | waaaay back when the interrupt pro addon was written using nameplates to introduce a boolean into the restricted environment it prompted me to look for other things you could do |
| 21:06.20 | Semlar | and one of those things happens to be that you can basically disable a button from insecure code |
| 21:06.36 | Semlar | which means you can prevent oh say an interrupt from going through if the target isn't casting |
| 21:07.16 | Semlar | or, you know, probably program an entire rotation into one button |
| 21:07.25 | Neffi | you should probably write a proof of concept and post it up somewhere so Blizz can figure out how it works and fix it |
| 21:07.37 | Neffi | there might already be some clever guild with an in-house coder that wrote their own exploit for this |
| 21:07.38 | Semlar | i don't know, that sounds like a lot of work |
| 21:09.13 | foxlit | Anyway, the answer is 262143, a "block to big" memory allocation error, and a broken print(), because reasons. |
| 21:09.46 | Neffi | "a "block to big" memory allocation error" lol wat |
| 21:10.13 | foxlit | possibly spelled correctly with more o's. |
| 21:15.51 | foxlit | The broken print() is actually kind of worrying, because how the heck do you break that?. |
| 21:20.47 | foxlit | (okay, so it was just /dump, because DevTools_DumpCommand == nil, because Blizzard_DebugTools apparently failed to load when handling the error.) |
| 21:25.00 | foxlit | Neffi: http://pastebin.com/p9HHtCy7 |
| 21:27.25 | Semlar | is a tail call like a booty call |
| 21:28.09 | foxlit | and now for a more practical question: if I have function A(...) local x = f(...) return g(...) end, where f(...) might throw an error, and may call A, how do I safely keep track of the number of times A has recursed? |
| 21:30.46 | foxlit | basically, how does one handle errors in http://pastebin.com/Zhmcvaty properly? |
| 21:34.01 | Semlar | what happens when B throws an error |
| 21:35.33 | foxlit | um, that error should be caught, run through the default error handler, and then ignored, pretending that B(...) returned nothing. |
| 21:36.07 | foxlit | essentially, B(...) is securecall(B, ...); the problematic extension to the question is "what happens when calling the error-suprressing function results in an error?" |
| 21:36.09 | Semlar | does depth - 1 and return x still happen |
| 21:36.30 | Shirik | foxlit: what's wrong with an upvalue? |
| 21:36.44 | Shirik | just increment it each time |
| 21:36.55 | foxlit | Shirik: as written, B might throw when depth = 100. |
| 21:37.13 | foxlit | which kills the decrementing call stack, leaving you unable to call B ever again. |
| 21:37.44 | Shirik | oh |
| 21:37.50 | Shirik | I thought you were trying to see how many times it recursed before error |
| 21:37.54 | Shirik | you're actually trying to get it to reset |
| 21:38.00 | Semlar | you can't just reset depth to 0 before calling A? |
| 21:38.09 | Shirik | that's error-prone |
| 21:38.12 | Shirik | no pun intended |
| 21:38.19 | foxlit | How do you know if you're the top-level caller of A? |
| 21:38.28 | Semlar | something has to call it first |
| 21:38.41 | foxlit | how does that something know it hasn't been called by B? |
| 21:38.59 | Shirik | I have an idea |
| 21:39.04 | Shirik | you might not like it |
| 21:39.12 | Shirik | what if you abused the reference counting system? |
| 21:39.25 | *** join/#wowuidev swartulv (~lupogriso@li607-220.members.linode.com) |
| 21:39.45 | foxlit | and force garbage collection before each call? |
| 21:41.30 | Semlar | i'm saying you have a separate function that resets the depth and calls A for the first time |
| 21:41.42 | Shirik | foxlit: I guess that would be the flaw, yes |
| 21:41.43 | Semlar | why would B factor into that |
| 21:41.46 | Shirik | you'd have to force garbage collection |
| 21:42.04 | Shirik | which is probably a bigger performance hit than a pcall |
| 21:42.15 | Shirik | fwiw, C++ would solve this with a pcall |
| 21:42.41 | Shirik | this would be destructor code which would be guaranteed to run on an exception |
| 21:42.49 | foxlit | Semlar: because B has to be able to call A. |
| 21:42.55 | Semlar | it can call A directly |
| 21:42.59 | foxlit | And it's possible that B is at the top of the execution stack, not A. |
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| 21:44.07 | foxlit | (imagine A as "tell me what this collection of macro commands does" and B as "Tell me what /runmacro does"; and then something else asks B "Hey, what does /runmacro Foo" do?") |
| 21:44.58 | foxlit | (B dutifully looks up the macro commands in Foo, and asks A what they do. One of these commands is /runmacro Foo, which recurses into B, which dutifully looks up...) |
| 21:48.24 | foxlit | http://pastebin.com/qk3ELvx5 is basically my plan now, involving crossing fingers that you don't get a stack overflow when calling securecall() itself. |
| 21:49.38 | Semlar | could you make B decrement the depth before it runs anything |
| 21:50.23 | Shirik | foxlit: this is the obvious answer, of course: http://pastebin.com/F3934AYP |
| 21:50.28 | Semlar | i guess that wouldn't work |
| 21:50.31 | Shirik | but it has a performance penalty |
| 21:50.35 | Shirik | I assume that's what you're concerned about |
| 21:50.46 | foxlit | Shirik: why am I getting a captcha for viewing your link? |
| 21:50.51 | Shirik | sorry I got captchaed |
| 21:50.55 | Semlar | because spam! |
| 21:50.59 | Shirik | didn't realize |
| 21:51.07 | Shirik | try now |
| 21:51.19 | foxlit | works now. |
| 21:51.27 | Shirik | oh wait |
| 21:51.28 | Shirik | that doesn't work |
| 21:51.30 | Shirik | one sec |
| 21:51.31 | Shirik | I'm terrible |
| 21:52.12 | Shirik | ok NOW I see your problem |
| 21:53.21 | Shirik | http://pastebin.com/Qxzs9Kdt |
| 21:53.25 | Shirik | but this has so many performance hits in it |
| 21:53.33 | Shirik | preemptive optimization is evil but so is this code |
| 21:54.01 | Semlar | that also wouldn't necessarily work if one of the values in ... were nil |
| 21:54.03 | Shirik | at this point doing the garbage collection thing might actually be easier, lol |
| 21:54.38 | Shirik | Semlar: sure; that's easy to fix |
| 21:54.56 | Neffi | Semlar: store select('#',...) then. but this would be easier if we had 5.2 where xpcall can pass arguments |
| 21:55.06 | Semlar | have you considered making B not throw errors |
| 21:55.12 | Neffi | or even the patch for doing that in 5.1 |
| 21:55.31 | Shirik | Semlar: never trust code that you do not control |
| 21:55.41 | Shirik | all external interfaces should be heavily guarded |
| 21:55.54 | Shirik | anyway here's the "fixed" version http://pastebin.com/MzW8r0gE |
| 21:56.31 | Shirik | but the real problem is dynamic memory management |
| 21:56.32 | Neffi | do you *need* the traceback? ;) |
| 21:56.41 | Shirik | it would be nice :P |
| 21:57.02 | Shirik | I hate trying to fix an error in my own code because someone else's code decided to eat the error |
| 21:57.13 | foxlit | securecall all the things. It's good stuff. |
| 21:57.26 | Shirik | anyway the real problem is dynamic memory management |
| 21:57.35 | Shirik | with explicit memory management this would be trivial |
| 21:57.47 | Shirik | destructor cleans up in the case of an exception during stack unwinding; done |
| 21:58.39 | foxlit | There's one pitfall that I don't think is fixable: can you be called with not enough stack remaining to actually call xpcall, causing *that* to throw an error? |
| 21:59.50 | Shirik | yes, but you would hit a stack overflow anyway on the call to B, no? |
| 22:00.01 | Shirik | the previous recursion would pick itu p |
| 22:00.08 | Shirik | you have nested protected environments here |
| 22:00.12 | foxlit | You've lost one unit of depth. |
| 22:00.14 | Shirik | yes |
| 22:00.29 | foxlit | Repeat 100 times and you won't ever call anything again. |
| 22:00.52 | Shirik | I don't understand |
| 22:01.23 | foxlit | the innermost iteration of A increments depth, throws an error while calling xpcall, and doesn't decrement depth. |
| 22:01.39 | foxlit | The rest of the stack unwinds, decrementing depth. With all A() calls resolved, depth is now 1. |
| 22:01.40 | Shirik | oh |
| 22:01.57 | Shirik | ok |
| 22:02.00 | Shirik | I have a new answer for you |
| 22:02.06 | Shirik | go back to my garbage collection answer :P |
| 22:03.01 | foxlit | less cumbersome: set depth = 0 in an OnUpdate handler. |
| 22:04.00 | Shirik | you even get a tail-call optimization out of it! |
| 22:04.29 | Shirik | http://pastebin.com/xcd5u0aN |
| 22:04.47 | Shirik | oh wait |
| 22:04.53 | Shirik | you have to force that tail call optimization to not happen |
| 22:04.54 | Shirik | don't do that |
| 22:04.57 | Shirik | store the return value and then return |
| 22:06.13 | Shirik | http://pastebin.com/WnDTcmKM |
| 22:06.22 | Shirik | with that, I am going to go destroy some portals |
| 22:06.54 | Shirik | random sidenote: the design of the collectgarbage() function is shit |
| 22:07.12 | Shirik | you don't take a string parameter to tell the function what to do |
| 22:07.17 | Shirik | you offer several different functions |
| 22:07.20 | Shirik | and then call the right one |
| 22:10.15 | Neffi | ^ +1 |
| 22:12.02 | *** join/#wowuidev tardmrr (~tardmrr@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Dongle/Tem) |
| 22:12.03 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v tardmrr] by ChanServ |
| 22:12.35 | Shirik | in C++ I would rage about this a lot harder, but in Lua it ends up turning into _G["collectgarbage"]("collect") anyway so fuck it |
| 22:13.08 | tem | what's the context for that stement, Shirik ? |
| 22:13.19 | *** join/#wowuidev A-KO (~A-KO@166.137.81.177) |
| 22:14.29 | Neffi | tem: http://codepad.org/fKvMw8fE |
| 22:14.30 | Shirik | http://pastebin.com/6bKL52eM |
| 22:14.32 | Shirik | bag |
| 22:14.33 | Shirik | bah |
| 22:14.39 | Neffi | beat you! |
| 22:14.52 | Shirik | I'm on a laptop :( |
| 22:15.01 | Neffi | technically so am I! |
| 22:15.07 | tem | ah yes, I agree |
| 22:15.07 | Shirik | I bet you have a mouse |
| 22:15.10 | Neffi | aye |
| 22:15.14 | tem | stringly typed is poopoo |
| 22:15.15 | Shirik | that doesn't count :P |
| 22:15.25 | Shirik | stringly typed |
| 22:15.26 | Shirik | I like that |
| 22:15.33 | Neffi | I suppose not. It's really a desktop with a shitty CPU, being that the screen is broken |
| 22:15.49 | tem | http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?StringlyTyped |
| 22:16.26 | tem | I didn't come up with the term, but I think it's awesome |
| 22:20.41 | Shirik | my dns is being crap today |
| 22:34.35 | foxlit | RE's frame handles are so inconvinient :( |
| 22:36.12 | foxlit | Wish they'd just exist within the RE itself, remapping to ordinary tables when externally observable (i.e. in attributes or external views of the environment) |
| 22:46.15 | *** join/#wowuidev Diesal_ (~quassel@110-174-123-122.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:49.49 | foxlit | heh |
| 22:50.58 | foxlit | CreateFrame("Frame", "FOO", nil, "SecureFrameTemplate") -> "Can't create protected 'Frame' now" |
| 22:51.14 | foxlit | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.30 | foxlit | What's your point, error message? |
| 23:02.54 | foxlit | http://pastebin.com/0nH9dahr << oh dammit, that's not even fun. |
| 23:05.31 | Fisker | A |
| 23:17.46 | fewyn | anyone happen to know what the white thing on the bottom left of my minimap is? http://uplol.fewyn.net/2014-08-23_18-17-14.png i don't think i've ever been able to figure it out |
| 23:23.57 | Seerah | fewyn: what do you get when you type /fstack with your mouse over it? any hints? |
| 23:24.23 | kd3 | a bedsheet ghost? |
| 23:24.31 | fewyn | http://uplol.fewyn.net/2014-08-23_18-24-23.png |
| 23:26.19 | Seerah | did you try disabling either of those addons from the top two frames listed? |
| 23:26.46 | tlund | its one of the plugins for the minimap addon i think |
| 23:26.53 | tlund | but it was two years since i was online :) |
| 23:32.10 | fewyn | has to be something with chinchilla then because none of my other addons seem to be causing it |
| 23:32.21 | fewyn | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 23:33.18 | p3lim | looks like the chinchilla option button |
| 23:34.48 | Seerah | Now that you mention Chinchilla, yes, that's a chinchilla on your minimap :) |
| 23:35.03 | fewyn | doesn't seem to be a way to disable it either |
| 23:35.17 | Seerah | just enjoy its cuteness then ;) |
| 23:35.17 | fewyn | oh |
| 23:35.20 | fewyn | it's the border style |
| 23:35.47 | fewyn | MYSTERY SOLVED |
| 23:36.19 | Seerah | it's been YEARS since I've touched that addon. but I do kinda remember a border with a chinchilla now (though it maybe used to look different?) |
| 23:36.22 | Seerah | anyway - yay! |
| 23:42.56 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@2601:4:4880:4a1:880a:4ee1:3d90:aecb) |
