| 00:01.02 | Henk_ | Net neutrality in the usa is getting fucked in the ass. |
| 00:01.40 | Ressy | so glad things are different here in Canada with our rules. |
| 00:02.15 | Semlar | you guys get the internet up there? |
| 00:02.20 | Henk_ | haha |
| 00:02.22 | Ressy | :P |
| 00:03.02 | Ressy | We even have no throttling except on satellite. :) |
| 00:03.35 | Henk_ | Here in Sweden we have net neutrality and fiber! >:D |
| 00:03.54 | Ressy | areas have fiber. All new developments & buildings have fiber. |
| 00:04.20 | Ressy | I won't get it for a while, if at all. |
| 00:04.38 | Semlar | well the US is pretty big |
| 00:05.02 | Henk_ | Your ISPs are really corrupt though |
| 00:05.06 | tz | at least you're getting it, in australia I was supposed to get fibre but there was a change in government and apparently copper is the future |
| 00:05.20 | Ressy | Canada's ISPs were bad until they were heavily regulated. |
| 00:05.24 | Semlar | i'll take my ISP over a lot of ISPs out there |
| 00:05.40 | kd3 | ooh, the r-word. don't say that, you'll get shanked here |
| 00:05.43 | Ressy | well, the biggies are still bad.. But they got bitchslapped a bit. |
| 00:08.05 | Ressy | few multi-million dollar fines, and then getting caught doing things they know isn't allowed (causing dozens of millions of dollars of upgrades to stop doing what they shouldn't have been doing).. They're starting to fall into line. |
| 00:10.02 | Henk_ | why does this retunr 64801? http://a.pomf.se/pdvtxs.txt it should return the number of entries in my table |
| 00:10.26 | Semlar | you want a = a + 1 |
| 00:10.36 | Semlar | it's just assigning a to the last key in your table |
| 00:10.49 | Semlar | which is a spell id |
| 00:10.58 | Henk_ | poop |
| 00:11.14 | Semlar | well |
| 00:11.26 | Henk_ | I thought the first was index |
| 00:11.31 | Semlar | it's the key |
| 00:11.41 | Semlar | which is the same as the index |
| 00:11.47 | Henk_ | the example on the lua docs should be for k, v in pairs() do |
| 00:11.49 | Semlar | but your index isn't numerical |
| 00:11.54 | Henk_ | key, value |
| 00:11.56 | Semlar | sequential |
| 00:12.05 | Semlar | it's a hash table |
| 00:12.14 | Semlar | [spellID] = frame or whatever |
| 00:12.18 | Henk_ | I love hash tables |
| 00:12.25 | Semlar | so i, k = spellID, frame |
| 00:13.43 | Semlar | if you want the length of a /sequentially/ indexed table you can just do #table |
| 00:14.18 | Henk_ | the remove command doesnt work http://a.pomf.se/xkzmpl.txt |
| 00:14.20 | Semlar | but for a hash table/dictionary list you'll have to iterate over it to count the entries |
| 00:14.38 | Semlar | you just do parent.frames[spellID] = nil |
| 00:14.50 | Henk_ | but that keeps the entry |
| 00:14.58 | Henk_ | I want it to scrame. |
| 00:15.01 | Henk_ | scram* |
| 00:15.08 | Semlar | assigning a table key to nil removes it from the table |
| 00:15.40 | Semlar | table.remove is really more for numerically indexed tables, i'm not sure it works with hash tables |
| 00:15.53 | Semlar | i'd have to look it up |
| 00:17.24 | Semlar | just do table[key] = nil |
| 00:17.33 | Henk_ | butt |
| 00:17.42 | Henk_ | Then it will show up when i itterate |
| 00:17.46 | Semlar | no it won't |
| 00:18.49 | Semlar | setting a table entry to nil removes it, so if it's coming back you're adding it back |
| 00:19.47 | Henk_ | oh |
| 00:19.49 | Henk_ | gut |
| 00:26.19 | VIad | half way done dumping quest and item data |
| 00:26.22 | VIad | I luv datamining |
| 00:26.34 | Semlar | tries to calm viad down |
| 00:26.52 | VIad | explodes from impatience. |
| 00:30.56 | Henk_ | fug yeah http://a.pomf.se/qjttxc.webm |
| 00:32.00 | Henk_ | Should I do a function that goes through every property and change it to nil before making it reusable? |
| 00:32.12 | VIad | table.wipe |
| 00:32.20 | Semlar | no |
| 00:32.26 | VIad | why not table.wipe ? |
| 00:32.28 | Semlar | if you're just reassigning all the values |
| 00:32.33 | Semlar | there's no point in clearing them out |
| 00:32.41 | Semlar | if i understood the question |
| 00:32.55 | Henk_ | I want to start recyceling frames |
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| 00:38.43 | Henk_ | How am i suppose to sort this? |
| 00:38.52 | Henk_ | the table is indexed by spellID |
| 00:39.04 | VIad | hmm |
| 00:39.18 | Semlar | if you need to sort a hash table you need to create a second numerically indexed table with the keys as its values |
| 00:39.37 | VIad | I think he means he wishes to take t[spell] and change the spell to something else |
| 00:39.50 | VIad | i.e. same frame object but other spell to show and handle |
| 00:40.14 | VIad | I'd myself advise not indexing by spell, just using 1..n indexes with a frame object that tracks what spell it shows, like frame.spell or something |
| 00:40.17 | Semlar | frankly if you're recycling frames i wouldn't be storing them in a hash table |
| 00:40.26 | VIad | yeah |
| 00:40.56 | Semlar | you can make a separate hash table to keep track of what's visible or whatever, but the frames should just be in an array |
| 00:40.58 | Henk_ | I don |
| 00:40.58 | Henk_ | http://a.pomf.se/ggjqxe.txt |
| 00:42.29 | Semlar | anyway to sort you just make another table with [i] = spellID in the order you want it |
| 00:42.51 | VIad | redesign it, one table for spells to show, other table to keep the frames in order |
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| 00:43.11 | VIad | and functions to use to check if certain spell has an assigned frame, assign, remove, e.g. |
| 00:43.37 | VIad | so when you use a frame you set frame.spell, and set frame.spell to nil when the frame is available |
| 00:43.58 | VIad | this way you can easily iterate over your frames, create new frames as the need grows and simply clean up and hide unused frames |
| 00:44.04 | VIad | keep in mind frames can't be deleted :) |
| 00:44.08 | Semlar | well i'm lazy and just use one table and check the frame's visibility to see whether it's available for recycling |
| 00:44.24 | VIad | works too ofc |
| 00:44.46 | Semlar | just loop over the table until i find one that isn't visible or create a new frame |
| 00:45.06 | VIad | watching anchorman while I wait for the scan to finish |
| 00:45.13 | VIad | the panther cologne, genious :p |
| 00:47.31 | Henk_ | VIad: that is a great idea. |
| 00:49.58 | VIad | I mean that's for example how blizzard handles their buffs |
| 00:50.10 | VIad | look at how blizzard create buff frames in their code |
| 00:50.37 | Mr_Rabies | it's still 8 same-guild players in a 10 man group to be considered a guild group, right? |
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| 00:51.15 | Henk_ | i think you need atleast 7 |
| 00:51.21 | Henk_ | so it should be fine |
| 00:51.54 | Henk_ | its apparently 8 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1097309-How-many-people-do-i-need-for-a-10-man-guild-run |
| 00:54.21 | Gethe | it's 80% of the raid so 8 for 10man, 20 for 25man |
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| 01:00.10 | VIad | encountered a weird issue |
| 01:00.17 | VIad | storing a ton of items, table[id] |
| 01:00.24 | VIad | some id are decimals :P |
| 01:00.30 | VIad | 98616.00000000002 |
| 01:00.36 | VIad | instead of just 98616 |
| 01:00.42 | VIad | that's odd |
| 01:00.49 | Henk_ | yup |
| 01:01.00 | Semlar | use a string |
| 01:05.14 | Henk_ | when creating a seq table i should use []? |
| 01:05.28 | Dagmar | I don't know that deliberately using another type is the right answer for that |
| 01:05.51 | Semlar | you can use tinsert and tremove to handle adding and removing elements for you |
| 01:05.55 | Dagmar | I'd go a'hunting for whatever insane-o bug is causing a very small decimal amount to come into play |
| 01:06.12 | Semlar | the insane-o bug is the fact that lua uses doubles |
| 01:06.35 | Dagmar | Yeah but 98616 isn't large enough to run into accuracy problems, as far as I know |
| 01:06.36 | Semlar | and for whatever reason on the beta if you use a number as a key in a dictionary table it can end up as a float |
| 01:06.45 | Dagmar | It's not like it uses EMMMS format to store them or something |
| 01:06.47 | Semlar | it has nothing to do with the size of the number |
| 01:07.07 | Dagmar | That sounds like a bug that should be reported |
| 01:07.43 | Semlar | in the meantime, if you're exporting a bunch of data that needs to be accurate then just use a string |
| 01:08.29 | Henk_ | slap a round on it before insterting |
| 01:09.19 | Semlar | lua literally doesn't have integers |
| 01:09.57 | Semlar | so everything is an approximate value |
| 01:11.57 | Semlar | i don't know why they're more approximate than usual on the beta |
| 01:13.26 | Dagmar | I can think of a reason, but I'd hate to accuse the lua devs of having a bug that uses unintialized memory. |
| 01:14.11 | Dagmar | Maybe someone's bzero/memset optimization is fucked |
| 01:14.57 | Shirik | .... |
| 01:15.02 | Shirik | not everything is an approximate value |
| 01:15.09 | Shirik | that is a terrible, terrible simplification |
| 01:15.14 | Semlar | you're a terrible simplification |
| 01:15.20 | Dagmar | Heh |
| 01:15.27 | Shirik | every 32-bit integer can be represented in a double perfectly |
| 01:15.30 | Dagmar | That works in so many ways |
| 01:15.52 | Semlar | they clearly aren't being represented perfectly |
| 01:16.00 | Shirik | you clearly aren't being represented perfectly |
| 01:16.04 | Shirik | It's IEEE 754, it's not magic |
| 01:16.08 | Dagmar | That's sort of why I'm thinking something that's only five digits long should really _not_ wind up with a smidgen of some decimal on it |
| 01:16.32 | Semlar | uh numbers as small as 23 are being fudged |
| 01:16.34 | Henk_ | this is prettey sweet http://a.pomf.se/vrbszl.jpg |
| 01:16.40 | Dagmar | *shudder* |
| 01:16.49 | Shirik | no |
| 01:16.53 | Shirik | you have 52 bits of precision |
| 01:17.12 | Semlar | going by this post http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?p=294286 |
| 01:17.27 | Shirik | 28.00000000000001 is not an integer |
| 01:17.33 | Shirik | oh I see |
| 01:17.49 | Shirik | it's a problem in the serialization code somewhere, then |
| 01:18.00 | Semlar | you're a problem with the serialization code |
| 01:18.05 | Shirik | Blizzard could have screwed up, but it's definitely not a Lua flaw |
| 01:18.14 | Semlar | psh |
| 01:18.43 | Dagmar | It's full of evil. |
| 01:23.46 | VIad | thats my issue yes |
| 01:23.53 | VIad | it's not good that this can occur if you ask me |
| 01:24.06 | VIad | when you work with integers you expect them to be handled properly :/ |
| 01:24.12 | Amarande | Dagmar: back in my Commodore days (mind you, Commodore used singles, heh) |
| 01:24.21 | Amarande | I remember things with as few as *three* significant digits sometimes failing epically |
| 01:24.27 | Dagmar | No, Commodore used something much worse. EMMMS format. |
| 01:24.28 | Amarande | 8.13 was the most famous such number, I believe |
| 01:24.52 | VIad | I have not encountered this issue before though, it's odd. |
| 01:25.02 | VIad | must have happened somewhere in the last 5.X patches |
| 01:25.14 | VIad | or maybe 6.x |
| 01:25.17 | Semlar | this is on live? |
| 01:25.21 | Dagmar | You were pretty much guaranteed inaccuracy beyond a certain point |
| 01:25.34 | VIad | Dagmar: yes but 28, seriously? |
| 01:25.45 | VIad | t[28] becomes t[28.000000002] |
| 01:25.47 | VIad | no logic |
| 01:25.48 | Dagmar | VIad: No, the C-64 thing is a wholly separate issue |
| 01:26.13 | VIad | atm I just talk about the wod beta storing issue |
| 01:26.22 | VIad | for i = 1, 1000 and you'll find a lot of rounding issues :P |
| 01:26.25 | VIad | when storing to SV |
| 01:26.32 | Dagmar | Yeah something is very knackered there. |
| 01:26.45 | Henk_ | the # thing to check length of table, do i use it like this #container.slot or container.#slot ? |
| 01:26.51 | Dagmar | It's not like converting integers into doubles is hard |
| 01:27.06 | VIad | # in front of the reference |
| 01:27.07 | Semlar | #container.slot |
| 01:27.43 | Torhal | doubles Dagmar's integers. |
| 01:28.35 | Amarande | VIad: 28 is too perfect for it to handle |
| 01:29.45 | Dagmar | Bulldozing everything with math.floor would be perverse |
| 01:29.49 | VIad | lol |
| 01:29.57 | VIad | did a for i = 1, 255 |
| 01:29.59 | Shirik | Dagmar: I have something even worse |
| 01:29.59 | VIad | stored in SV |
| 01:30.05 | VIad | my result was a mixed one |
| 01:30.06 | Shirik | occasionally I have to work with a format known as DEC floating point |
| 01:30.07 | Semlar | i don't know if flooring it would even work |
| 01:30.13 | Dagmar | Shirik: SHUSH |
| 01:30.25 | kd3 | zuh |
| 01:30.29 | VIad | http://pastebin.com/5pgga8rZ |
| 01:30.39 | VIad | 28.0000000001 :D |
| 01:30.56 | Gethe | Semlar: floor works for it |
| 01:31.05 | VIad | it's odd |
| 01:31.09 | VIad | it inserted both 28 and 28.0001 |
| 01:31.11 | VIad | why?! |
| 01:31.13 | VIad | WHY |
| 01:31.26 | Shirik | because their serializer is fucked |
| 01:31.31 | Dagmar | Shirik++ |
| 01:31.33 | Amarande | Shirik, do you still have to compile FORTRAN on machines with 36-bit word length? :) |
| 01:31.36 | Semlar | oO |
| 01:31.44 | VIad | for i = 1, 255 produced an extra element of 28, second one being a decimal |
| 01:31.50 | VIad | I hope they fix this |
| 01:31.58 | Semlar | i hope they break it even more |
| 01:32.00 | Shirik | Amarande: I occasionally compile "code" for a 6-bit microcontroller |
| 01:32.05 | Shirik | I want to destroy that moron |
| 01:32.19 | Shirik | someone thought it would be cool to implement a 6-bit microcontroller in an FPGA |
| 01:32.29 | Shirik | and so we use it ._. |
| 01:32.34 | Amarande | Shirik: to make it even more evil it should be using EBCDIC for characters |
| 01:33.15 | Dagmar | I still don't know what the rationale was for EBCDIC unless they were just looking to clone a punchcard someone shredded and then taped back together wrong |
| 01:33.41 | Henk_ | Semlar: haha |
| 01:33.42 | Shirik | someone made their punchcard wrong |
| 01:33.47 | Shirik | and didn't want to have to redo it |
| 01:33.51 | Amarande | Dagmar: well, in its defence, EBCDIC actually allowed I believe for a few control characters that ASCII didn't |
| 01:33.56 | Amarande | but non-consecutive letters is just evil |
| 01:34.07 | Dagmar | Agreed |
| 01:34.23 | Amarande | apparently it was also inconsistent with punctuation |
| 01:34.26 | Dagmar | I dunno about hte control codes thing tho |
| 01:34.32 | Amarande | which got "fun" when people moved from punch cards to keyed-in code |
| 01:35.15 | Dagmar | Yeah it was like someone decided, "Hey, lets take our ASCII chars and redo them starting in some random place from 0-255... then decided they didn't like where they were after a bit and figured they'd jump to some new place and keep going |
| 01:35.33 | Dagmar | ASCII at least you could trivially check for uppercase/lowercase |
| 01:35.59 | Amarande | Dagmar: unless you had to deal with Commodore computers, anyway |
| 01:36.10 | Dagmar | I did deal with Commodores |
| 01:36.18 | Dagmar | Upper and lower sets were aligned |
| 01:36.22 | Amarande | in which case the uppercase/lowercase was reversed, wasn't it? |
| 01:36.29 | Amarande | that, and by default you didn't even get lowercase |
| 01:36.31 | Dagmar | They just had a bunch of _other_ characters that they rolled their own on |
| 01:36.56 | Amarande | yeah, commodore ascii was pretty strongly built around the notion of character based graphics, it seemed |
| 01:37.11 | Dagmar | They weren't unique in going their own way with upper and lower. Apple was even worse |
| 01:37.24 | Amarande | also allowing for things like easily using the function keys from BASIC |
| 01:37.27 | Dagmar | chr(13) wasn't good enough for them |
| 01:38.28 | Shirik | excuse me |
| 01:38.34 | Shirik | it was chr$(13) |
| 01:39.04 | Shirik | I still say "string" when I'm reading $ to this day |
| 01:40.09 | Dagmar | Yeah but I don't want freak people out with the dollar sign on the wrong side |
| 01:42.16 | Amarande | Dagmar: don't worry, they can always PRINT CHR$(147) |
| 01:43.03 | Henk_ | If I do a setScript onEvent two times on the same element with the old one get replaced? |
| 01:43.10 | Semlar | yes |
| 01:43.50 | Dagmar | They can always 's'? |
| 01:44.36 | Amarande | s? |
| 01:44.48 | Dagmar | That's a lowercase 's'. I had to go look it up |
| 01:44.52 | Amarande | CHR$(147) was the clear screen control code on commodore |
| 01:45.43 | Dagmar | I was going to say "goddamnit stop making me google this stuff" and then I realized that no, I don't want to know it anymore |
| 01:46.28 | Dagmar | Now that you're saying it it *sounds* right but thre's another thing I feel like I'm missing... and Im' sure that brain cell is holding more useful information by now which is why it's not reporting in with an answer. |
| 01:47.22 | Dagmar | cbm set did like ascii with uppercase/lowercase being basically a bit flip, but they did it using a different bit |
| 01:47.40 | Dagmar | Maybe it was the screen mode in effect |
| 01:48.02 | Dagmar | Like the last two years I didn't bother writing in BASIC anymore anyway |
| 01:48.29 | Amarande | yeah, commodore actually had two complete character sets stored in ROM, I'm trying to remember what the toggle was |
| 01:48.32 | Dagmar | I just banged shit out in assembly, because well... you _could_ write a reasonable amount of it in a college ruled notebook and then type it in later |
| 01:49.10 | Dagmar | I mean, 38k available... 42k or something if you dumped the BASIC interpreter out |
| 01:49.15 | Dagmar | I've written bigger emails.. |
| 01:50.05 | Dagmar | At one point I was coding up a freaking Xmodem implementation so I could more efficiently scrape usenet |
| 01:51.04 | Dagmar | ...and that led me to having to basically code my own goddamn filesystem and start doing weire shit akin to on-demand loading of libraries from a second drive and just finally said "FUCK THIS SHIT" and bought a 128 so I could just have a usable 80 char display as a dumb terminal |
| 01:51.12 | VIad | why are we talking about technology before my time? |
| 01:51.27 | Dagmar | Because we are not drunk enough yet |
| 01:51.31 | VIad | :D |
| 01:51.37 | Dagmar | ...and you might learn something |
| 01:51.41 | Dagmar | It could happen |
| 01:52.12 | Esamynn|work | next you'll be yelling at kids to get off your lawn :P |
| 01:52.29 | Dagmar | waves a cane around and declares, "In *my* day if you wanted to multiply two floating point numbers in assembly you had to carry every bit upstream across three pages, both ways" |
| 01:52.50 | VIad | knocking on the floor above with a stick when the neighbors above make any sound |
| 01:53.01 | VIad | yelling "people are trying to sleep here" while it's still daytime |
| 01:53.22 | Dagmar | I really did enjoy watching the kiddies in #10x10c or whatever it was called (Notch's space game) showi~ng off their psuedocode and talking about all the stuff they'd write |
| 01:53.37 | Dagmar | ...and you'd look and they'd have malloc primitives. |
| 01:54.01 | Dagmar | "I regret to inform you that since Notch modeled this after the C-64, there will be NO MEMORY MANAGER FOR YOU." |
| 01:54.20 | Dagmar | "But... but... how do we keep track of where the numbers are stored?" |
| 01:54.36 | Dagmar | "Manually. Muahahahahha!" |
| 01:54.45 | Esamynn|work | http://xkcd.com/378/ |
| 01:54.48 | Dagmar | "Ah someone will write a memory manager" |
| 01:54.51 | Dagmar | "HAHAHAHAHAH" |
| 01:56.35 | Esamynn|work | also, http://xkcd.com/1349/ applies to this conversation |
| 01:57.34 | Dagmar | ...then came the dark realization, that they'd have to sacrifice a chunk of memory for hte allocation map... and an even bigger chunk of memory to wrangle it... and it would be slow as balls and it was just "I built a redstone door in my house and now there's no room for house." all over again |
| 01:58.02 | Arrowmaster | no room for house, lol |
| 01:58.22 | Dagmar | ...then the subject of _precision_ came up. |
| 01:58.26 | Dagmar | wheee! |
| 01:58.30 | Esamynn|work | haha |
| 01:58.57 | Dagmar | "How the fuck are we supposed to fly through space like that?" "Voyager did it on less. Still doing it actually." |
| 01:59.20 | Esamynn|work | which is damn impressive |
| 01:59.25 | Dagmar | Yes. Very. |
| 01:59.25 | Arrowmaster | i prefer my flying through space kerbal style |
| 01:59.48 | Dagmar | Arrowmaster: You'd think they were being asked to do that by the way some of them reacted. |
| 02:00.10 | Dagmar | I'm sure they'd have no idea what to make of 'astrogators' in old science fiction books |
| 02:01.03 | Dagmar | You point the ship in more or less the right direction, then you go awhile and you stop and look to see where you _really_ wound up, and then you just do that over and over again until you're there. |
| 02:01.42 | Dagmar | It's a shame that seems to have died out because I was really looking forward to murdering kids in space |
| 02:02.10 | Arrowmaster | so it had realistic orbital mechanics? |
| 02:03.30 | Dagmar | It was apparently going to, and the best part was this... your navigational beacons were pulsars. |
| 02:03.38 | Dagmar | ...that you had to _detect_. |
| 02:04.28 | Arrowmaster | sounds super complex |
| 02:04.29 | Dagmar | So you'd have to stop, look around for the local pulsars, watch them a bit to figure out what their rotation and angle were until you've got at least three, and then try and go find them in your astrogation map |
| 02:04.45 | Dagmar | It would be |
| 02:05.46 | Dagmar | ...which basically meant, if you were already famliar with the pitfalls of this kind of computering, you would have a HUGE advantage in efficiency over anyone who didn't. |
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| 02:08.15 | bluspacecow | @Dagmar ROFL at script kiddies writing memory managers |
| 02:10.15 | Dagmar | Yeah every single thing they'd try to code, I'd be light years ahead of them on, literally. |
| 02:11.41 | bluspacecow | while ½ drunk , hangover , sick with teh flu and on 2 hours sleep. |
| 02:12.19 | bluspacecow | altough that XKCD about real programmers is amusing |
| 02:13.36 | VIad | you have multiple levels of programming |
| 02:13.44 | bluspacecow | heh |
| 02:13.47 | VIad | one requires more insight into hardware than the other |
| 02:13.51 | bluspacecow | iâm no programmer |
| 02:13.54 | bluspacecow | iâm a basher |
| 02:14.01 | bluspacecow | ie write small part of bash script |
| 02:14.11 | bluspacecow | *bash* it a few times to get it to work |
| 02:14.18 | bluspacecow | move to next part. |
| 02:14.19 | bluspacecow | repeat |
| 02:17.00 | Esamynn|work | how... poetic |
| 02:18.47 | Esamynn|work | I would still argue that anyone who seriously wants to go back to those days, however, is sick in the head |
| 02:19.08 | Esamynn|work | things like memory managers were created for good reason |
| 02:19.52 | bluspacecow | *nod* *nod* |
| 02:21.11 | Dagmar | Well, they were crafted because we got enough memory int he computers to _matter_ |
| 02:21.16 | Esamynn|work | yes it results in a lot of ppl not having the faintest clue as to how a lot of these fundamentals actually work... but on balance, I think that's actually a good thing |
| 02:21.25 | Esamynn|work | true enough |
| 02:21.27 | Dagmar | If you were handling that kind of data on a commodore, your memory management was basically "bank switching" |
| 02:21.58 | Dagmar | Well, _not_ knowing these fundamentals is why you have to explain to people why no-copy methods are optimal |
| 02:22.15 | Esamynn|work | it's really quite insane how much overhead is really build into modern computing |
| 02:22.28 | Dagmar | It lets us do cooler stuff in less time tho' |
| 02:22.39 | Esamynn|work | that was basically my point |
| 02:22.51 | Esamynn|work | most of the time, you really don't need optimal |
| 02:23.02 | Amarande | Esamynn: there were certain advantages to game development back then |
| 02:23.15 | Amarande | everyone knew graphics weren't high quality, neither was sound anything better than beeps unless you had a commodore |
| 02:23.21 | Dagmar | You can try to get somewhere by standing on toothpicks that can only be planted in the indentations on dominoes you've scattered ahead of you, or you can put on some sneakera and walk |
| 02:23.42 | Dagmar | Amarande: Then you'd be able to get *three* beeps at once! |
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| 02:24.06 | Esamynn|work | zomg! |
| 02:24.22 | Amarande | you had to concentrate on great gameplay, rather than on "oh, hey, let's use glitzy graphics and magazine screenshots to get people to mostly buy our terrible game before it's even out thanks to the magic of preorder and no opened returns!" |
| 02:24.27 | Dagmar | Digital audio was my holy grail for a little while |
| 02:24.40 | Amarande | Dagmar: :P Commodore had a uniquely awesome sound chip |
| 02:24.46 | Amarande | It would be many many years before PC caught up |
| 02:24.55 | Dagmar | "Okay. I can play back ten seconds of audio with all the fidelity of the shittiest wax reel ever, but it works." |
| 02:24.56 | Henk_ | Now this is some nice ass reusable code I can put my name on http://a.pomf.se/jwlhbe.txt |
| 02:25.15 | Amarande | even then, the SID was unique enough that when MOS/Commodore stopped manufacturing, a pro audio company bought out the remaining chips and used them in their gear |
| 02:25.40 | Dagmar | It's true they were miles ahead of everyone else's crude PCM |
| 02:26.05 | Dagmar | ...just because you could pick from four different waveforms and the chip would handle ADSR for you |
| 02:26.26 | Dagmar | ...and yes, I could get digital audio out of that. ...of a sort. |
| 02:27.02 | Dagmar | ...using the goddamn paddle port and some really ugly circuits to leverage the AD converters |
| 02:27.33 | Dagmar | sample rate < 4k |
| 02:27.37 | Dagmar | much less. |
| 02:28.08 | Dagmar | ...and you weren't allowed to touch the keyboard while it was going on or things would fuck up |
| 02:28.42 | Amarande | yeah, Commodore did overload the I/O chips pretty fiercely |
| 02:28.45 | Amarande | like joyport 1 and the keyboard |
| 02:29.12 | Dagmar | Yeah and I was using the paddle port because it basically was a 0ohm to 100kohm input |
| 02:29.49 | Dagmar | The sampling was *completely* unintelligible until I had some resolution available |
| 02:30.10 | Dagmar | Freakin' Peanuts-speak |
| 02:31.11 | Dagmar | Scan the thing, snatch off the top four bits, stuff it into memory somewhere, go back for another |
| 02:31.33 | Dagmar | Did I leave out shifting the bits up? No, I did not. |
| 02:32.13 | Dagmar | At the halfway point I would swap to a different method and do something fancy to shift the nibble down and store it in the lower nibble of the first bytes again |
| 02:32.51 | Dagmar | Playback == pink noise, and you'd modulate the volume really fast |
| 02:33.05 | Dagmar | Sounded like complete ass but it worked |
| 02:34.02 | Dagmar | Pink noise was necessary because if you were silly enough to try and just tell the sound chip to play a steady tone, it came out sounding unintelligible again |
| 02:34.57 | Dagmar | ...and shrill. |
| 02:37.41 | Henk_ | good morning |
| 02:41.09 | VIad | awesome http://ss.bool.no/upload_a6c3e0b3.jpg |
| 02:41.18 | VIad | Gorgorek The Worldbreaker |
| 02:41.22 | VIad | Worldrender* |
| 02:50.51 | TC-Work | Sounds like a bitch. |
| 02:51.40 | VIad | "You must be at least level 92 to enter." |
| 02:51.42 | VIad | I am 94 :P |
| 02:51.46 | VIad | some random instance portal hehe |
| 02:55.31 | Amarande | heh, that happens every now and again |
| 02:55.35 | Amarande | I can't remember which area it was now |
| 02:55.46 | Amarande | but I seem to remember there was one place where I was level 86 and it told me "your level is too low" |
| 02:55.50 | Amarande | and it was legacy content, too |
| 02:55.58 | Amarande | hmmm ... right, I think it might have been wintergrasp |
| 02:56.09 | Amarande | yes, we're talking an area originally made for level 80, but level 86 is "too low" |
| 02:56.46 | Amarande | soo ... any definite word on flight in WoD yet, btw? |
| 02:57.26 | Amarande | is it the usual song and dance? (Which song goes: "I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. But I forgot the new Riding skill, and now I gotta pay a repair bill ...") |
| 02:57.57 | VIad | :po |
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| 03:00.16 | VIad | NOOOO BLIZZZ |
| 03:00.26 | VIad | I was walking on the water, suddenly you are in farloon |
| 03:00.30 | VIad | sorry no mans land bye to stormwind |
| 03:00.31 | VIad | arrgh |
| 03:00.37 | VIad | like no time to go back |
| 03:00.44 | VIad | or to click "no I wanna stay nearby" |
| 03:01.12 | Amarande | VIad: hey, could be worse |
| 03:01.23 | VIad | instaban and acc deletion |
| 03:01.29 | Amarande | like, when the cata pre-patch launched you basically couldn't go to the start of badlands properly |
| 03:01.35 | Amarande | had to wait till cata came out and you activated it |
| 03:01.42 | VIad | :D |
| 03:01.55 | VIad | btw |
| 03:02.02 | VIad | I hope they wont just put a TBC mini portal in SW |
| 03:02.05 | VIad | like it is in the beta atm |
| 03:02.06 | Amarande | or else you had to go to searing gorge and trek all the way east across badlands so you could rendezvous with the beginning of the quests |
| 03:02.10 | VIad | I hope the portal will be in blasted lands :p |
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| 03:02.48 | Amarande | water stuff has always been strange, though |
| 03:03.08 | Amarande | like the infamous hearth glitches in icecrown zone, especially if you hearthed from the faction zep (don't know if that's fixed or not, heh) |
| 03:06.36 | VIad | I have no clue how the phasing will work |
| 03:06.41 | VIad | so much phasing in WOD, garrisons, e.g. |
| 03:06.47 | VIad | gonna be a mess if you wanna play with a buddy |
| 03:06.54 | VIad | you MUST do the same quests or you are fucked :p |
| 03:08.21 | VIad | garrisons sound nice - problem is I am capped with 1000 wood so I can't loot more nor use it quick enough on missions :P |
| 03:10.53 | Dagmar | Same here |
| 03:11.14 | Dagmar | Apparently I should be hunting anything that moves until something appropriate to leatherworkers drops |
| 03:11.15 | Esamynn|work | VIad: as far as phasing goes, being in the same party overrides a lot of that even today |
| 03:11.26 | Esamynn|work | but phasing isn't nearly as clean up as it used to be |
| 03:11.55 | Esamynn|work | to my knowledge, they only hide players from each other now if there is terrain involved |
| 03:12.02 | Dagmar | I am guessing they will soon add some mechanism for the people who didn't take any tradeskilsl |
| 03:12.53 | Dagmar | Esamynn: Not asa much as maybe they should. Highpass has a boulder I imagine the other players snickering about as they run through it |
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| 03:28.14 | VIad | Esamynn|work: I hope it is easy to swap between whos phase we are in, as often I help friends a bit lower than me, or that have gone different paths than me. It's just annoying to phase away and not be able to tell them what quest causes this phasing issue. :P |
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| 05:19.41 | karl_w_w | so hercules was good |
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| 05:38.40 | Mr_Rabies | b-but alan moore said not to watch it because he didn't like some aspect of it |
| 05:40.30 | karl_w_w | I don't know who that is so I have to assume he's wrong a fool |
| 05:42.10 | Thunder_Child | s/wrong a fool/a wrong tool/ |
| 05:42.40 | Mr_Rabies | he's the crazy wizard that wrote watchmen and v for vendetta (the comics) |
| 05:42.57 | Mr_Rabies | he looks positively stallman-esque and just as crazy |
| 05:43.32 | Mr_Rabies | http://i1.cdnds.net/10/42/comics_alan_moore_2.jpg |
| 05:43.50 | karl_w_w | clearly a stable guy |
| 05:43.54 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 05:44.01 | karl_w_w | I'd approve his mortgage |
| 05:44.10 | Mr_Rabies | he wrote some good stories in the 80s |
| 05:44.18 | Mr_Rabies | but pretty much just is crazy 24/7 now |
| 05:44.24 | Mr_Rabies | (much like frank miller, i guess) |
| 05:44.36 | Mr_Rabies | just on opposite ends of the spectrum |
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| 07:50.16 | karl_w_w | why is it windows is the only thing ever that lets you manually set the DNS server but still use DHCP for everything else? |
| 07:50.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Dashkal (~dashkal@unaffiliated/dashkal) |
| 07:50.37 | karl_w_w | well other than modems of course |
| 07:51.11 | Workfoz | because it is superior, of course |
| 07:53.31 | nevcairiel | You can do the same on Linux, its just a question if you distributions config scripts/dialogs expose it, but the CLI config commands can do it easily |
| 07:54.50 | Mr_Rabies | good ol' linux |
| 07:59.33 | Workfoz | no way... are you saying it's a layer 8 problem? |
| 07:59.34 | Workfoz | :D |
| 08:03.27 | Mr_Rabies | argh |
| 08:03.36 | Mr_Rabies | i wish tidyplates had profiles |
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| 08:15.09 | Shirik | karl_w_w: tbh that sounds like a really strange configuration |
| 08:15.13 | Shirik | why would you do that |
| 08:15.34 | Shirik | not saying you shouldn't be able to |
| 08:15.37 | Shirik | just that it's weird |
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| 08:22.08 | Fisker | Why is it weird Shirik ? |
| 08:22.36 | Shirik | why would you listen to only half of what your DHCP server has to say? |
| 08:25.53 | Mr_Rabies | what if your modem, for example, only uses a stupid dns that does shady redirection and stuff and you'd rather use another, without buying a router or other modem |
| 08:30.37 | nevcairiel | Yeah overriding ISP DNS is as good reason as any |
| 08:35.02 | Mr_Rabies | my router lets me, most modems let me, but i'm sure there are plenty that don't |
| 08:35.08 | Mr_Rabies | especially in say, iran, china, etc |
| 08:35.22 | Workfoz | nice preconceptions there, buddy |
| 08:35.33 | Workfoz | how about listing the US and Europe in that list |
| 08:37.28 | nevcairiel | I'm happy to not have a ISP enforced router or modem, but not everyone is that lucky, especially in modern countries the ISPs try to get more power through enforcing locked down hardware |
| 08:51.22 | Mr_Rabies | Workfoz: because both of those have dns redirects that block unwanted info from getting to their people |
| 08:51.53 | Workfoz | unrelated to being able to configure your router freely. |
| 08:51.56 | Mr_Rabies | i mean, so does the uk, i guess |
| 08:52.30 | nevcairiel | Many ISPs redirect unknown domains to some search page of their own, its kinda evil |
| 08:52.32 | Mr_Rabies | i have a feeling routers are more locked down in those countries because bypassing it would be even more simple |
| 08:52.47 | nevcairiel | Luckily my ISP had an option to turn that ofd |
| 08:53.00 | nevcairiel | off |
| 08:53.03 | Mr_Rabies | like, you can find routers here that can, but there it's literally information control 100% |
| 08:53.08 | Workfoz | aha |
| 08:53.10 | Workfoz | been there long? :D |
| 08:53.30 | Workfoz | at least in China it's implemented at the country level |
| 08:53.39 | Workfoz | no need to fuck with every single home router in the country. |
| 08:54.15 | Mr_Rabies | so they can't bypass it using a home router at all? |
| 08:54.31 | nevcairiel | Some places like turkey used DNS redirects to block stuff, and its effective enough for 99% of all users |
| 08:54.44 | Workfoz | only by tunneling to endpoints outside the country that the Great Firewall of China (tm) operators don't block |
| 08:55.01 | Mr_Rabies | yeah, i figured it was the same in china, nevcairiel |
| 08:55.09 | nevcairiel | No its not |
| 08:55.10 | Workfoz | it's more than DNS though |
| 08:55.25 | nevcairiel | China takes a lot of effort |
| 08:57.51 | Mr_Rabies | like, you can't even get mad at me for assuming this when they have something implemented referred to as "the great firewall" |
| 08:59.58 | *** join/#wowuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 09:02.11 | Mr_Rabies | yeah some isps here rent/sell terrible locked down modems/routers but it's because they're greedy corporations, not greedy governments. sure, the isps buy and sell our government at times but at least there's some semblance of division :p |
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| 09:34.46 | g0urra | time to see if The Crew is any good |
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| 10:15.40 | karl_w_w | I bet it isn't |
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| 10:24.42 | g0urra | steering is with the arrow buttons, and reverse controls are flipped |
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| 12:02.18 | VIad | karl_w_w: I myself use DNSMasq with custom redirects for my network. This way I don't have to specify anything on the clients, they just work like I want them to since the router tells them what DNS to use. :D |
| 12:43.27 | jleclanche | Fisker: http://www.gog.com/news/gogcom_now_supports_linux |
| 12:49.12 | VIad | hahaa |
| 12:49.41 | VIad | some pvper on beta killed me, then I ran to our camp and he got killed, then he added me to bnet and said "dont be a pussy brah. luring me to a city LOL fucking pansy" then instantly removed me :D |
| 12:50.09 | VIad | I was doing a quest to kill horde, right next to the horde camp - go figure - so with my AoE I tagged myself for PvP and got killed while AoEing 2 quest mobs and like 10 peons :P |
| 12:57.37 | karl_w_w | VIad if my router was doing its DNS job properly I wouldn't need to change the settings :P |
| 12:57.50 | VIad | why is it not? :( |
| 12:58.43 | karl_w_w | dont know |
| 12:58.54 | karl_w_w | it's a bum |
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| 13:00.12 | VIad | hmm |
| 13:00.18 | VIad | I installed ddwrt a while ago - it's nice |
| 13:00.29 | VIad | can even sniff packets :D |
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| 13:06.59 | *** join/#wowuidev Henk_ (d9d18bbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.209.139.190) |
| 13:16.45 | Henk_ | local BebasNeue = CreateFrame("Font"); didnt work. and I cant find anything on wowprogramming |
| 13:17.25 | VIad | FontString |
| 13:17.49 | VIad | frame:CreateFontString() |
| 13:17.53 | VIad | look up that widget API |
| 13:18.07 | Henk_ | thanks |
| 13:20.56 | Henk_ | I redesigned my functions as you said and damn they look alot better now http://a.pomf.se/wcrlmx.txt |
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| 13:21.56 | VIad | Semlar: EXPLAIN YOURSELF? |
| 13:22.00 | VIad | http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showpost.php?p=294264&postcount=2 |
| 13:22.08 | VIad | why strmatch and not split? |
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| 13:24.27 | *** join/#wowuidev Kraps (~Kraps@unaffiliated/kraps) |
| 13:24.28 | Henk_ | because he dont want to format it, just make sure its valid? |
| 13:25.17 | Henk_ | I dont understand font objects http://a.pomf.se/xvtgcw.txt |
| 13:25.46 | VIad | no |
| 13:25.53 | VIad | font string is a thing you can display text in |
| 13:26.04 | VIad | nothing to do with loading font files |
| 13:26.06 | Henk_ | But I want to load a font |
| 13:26.11 | VIad | it's already loaded |
| 13:26.15 | VIad | you just got to use it :P |
| 13:26.30 | Henk_ | but its a custom font |
| 13:27.04 | VIad | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/FontString |
| 13:27.08 | VIad | http://wowprogramming.com/docs/widgets/FontInstance/SetFont |
| 13:28.40 | Henk_ | so just fonts\\BebasNeue.ttf will work? |
| 13:33.33 | Henk_ | http://a.pomf.se/gmwngf.png thats a thing |
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| 13:47.09 | zenzelezz | woot |
| 13:47.32 | zenzelezz | it's amazing how much more quiet a PC is with onboard graphics than with a HD6870 without fan control |
| 13:49.22 | nevcairiel | Why do you have a GPU without fan control |
| 13:50.03 | zenzelezz | because I had enough trouble finding out how to get the/a proper driver for the Radeon to bother... and I didn't realize it wasn't doing automatic fan control until some time later |
| 13:50.40 | nevcairiel | GPU fans at 100% sound like jet engines |
| 13:51.24 | Workfoz | the GTX 780 isn't very silent either |
| 13:51.33 | Workfoz | is the automatic fan control not good? |
| 13:51.51 | Workfoz | (not that I notice while actually gaming, because headphones, but...) |
| 13:52.07 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: I used to run a computer with a FOP-38, I think that permanently hurt my hearing or something. At least nothing since sounded as loud |
| 13:52.14 | VIad | Henk_Away: I'd put the font in my addon folder :P |
| 13:52.32 | nevcairiel | At medium load I don't hear my 780 |
| 13:52.46 | nevcairiel | Maybe you have heat built up in your system? |
| 13:53.00 | nevcairiel | At high load it becomes audible, but that's expected |
| 14:02.19 | Workfoz | unlikely, I have 2 120 mm fans installed at the top of the case... although ATX has this stupidty that cards are facing downwards >_> |
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| 14:13.14 | nevcairiel | Isn't it usually recommended to build an over pressure system, ie. Pump more air in from the front |
| 14:13.36 | pompy | Workfoz: yeah my 760 faces downward in my new system..,,i was sad when i noticed that. |
| 14:13.53 | Workfoz | all of them everywhere do it, if it's ATX |
| 14:14.16 | nevcairiel | Yeah all cards always face down |
| 14:14.35 | Workfoz | that's the biggest thing I'm sad about BTX not getting any adoption |
| 14:14.41 | Workfoz | it reverses that ^^ |
| 14:16.05 | Workfoz | nevcairiel: they are not the only fans =) there's also two at the front |
| 14:16.06 | nevcairiel | In any case, it does help that problem if you pump in fresh air from the bottom front, since the card fans can use that air as well |
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| 14:16.10 | zenzelezz | I was a bit puzzled when I got my first tower that placed the PSU on the bottom |
| 14:16.37 | Workfoz | although I guess when I count the fan on the radiator, that still means it's a net negative pressure |
| 14:17.06 | nevcairiel | And of course keep room below the gpu if at all possible to help ventilation |
| 14:17.10 | Workfoz | good thing about PSU at the bottom (at least in my case) is that the PSU airflow is separate from the case airflow |
| 14:17.46 | nevcairiel | Many cases are supposed to pull in PSU air from below the case and right back out through the PSU |
| 14:17.54 | Workfoz | yeah, there's nothing else there. my additional sata controller is the only other card and it's in the slot furthest away from the GPU (which is in the first slot) |
| 14:18.06 | nevcairiel | I never really trusted putting the PSU fan to the bottom tho |
| 14:18.44 | Workfoz | why, do you have a Hochflorteppich? |
| 14:19.12 | zenzelezz | not sure I understand that one nevcairiel; having the PSU itself on the bottom, or having it on the top but with the fan facing down? |
| 14:19.20 | Workfoz | wtf, that's "deep-pile carpet" in english ^^ |
| 14:20.04 | nevcairiel | On the bottom with the fan to the bottom as well zenzelezz |
| 14:21.06 | nevcairiel | Luckily you can rotate the PSU usually |
| 14:21.59 | nevcairiel | Haven't seen a case with PSU on top for a long time |
| 14:22.01 | zenzelezz | nevcairiel: none of my towers have allowed face-down on the bottom; the screws just wouldn't line up with the PSU holes then |
| 14:22.39 | nevcairiel | Well its only useful if the tower is designed for that anyway |
| 14:22.50 | nevcairiel | Ie. It needs an intake there |
| 14:23.09 | Henk_ | VIad: "C:\Program Files (x86)\World of Warcraft\interface\addons\_Henk_\fonts\BebasNeue.ttf" |
| 14:23.20 | Henk_ | VIad: f.l:SetFont("Interface\\addons\\_Henk_\\fonts\\BebasNeue.ttf", 25, "MONOCHROME"); |
| 14:24.17 | VIad | oki doki |
| 14:24.30 | Henk_ | Thats correct? |
| 14:24.55 | Henk_ | I really really want to use MONOCHROME but it crashes my game |
| 14:25.26 | Amarande | nevcairiel: I've actually never seen a face-down, isolated PSU air case, although I keep hearing about it |
| 14:25.29 | Amarande | it seems like a bad idea |
| 14:25.46 | Amarande | intel themselves have said the psu fan is an important part of the case exhaust, often even recommending it as the primary part of your case exhaust |
| 14:26.28 | Workfoz | nevcairiel: yeah, that's what mine has. PSU pulls air from bottom, exhausts to the back, doesn't affect case airflow |
| 14:27.04 | Workfoz | (and the case has a fan thing at the bottom, too, but I'm not sure how I could actually fit a fan there - that's the spot where all of the PSU's modular cables are) |
| 14:29.41 | g0urra | .. I just noticed there's a dead bumblebee on my desk. wtf |
| 14:33.52 | Amarande | pr ratjer. O |
| 14:34.10 | Amarande | or rather, I've seen cases that allege to support it, but I've never seen a PSU that actually mounts that way |
| 14:35.00 | Amarande | I'm guessing it's mostly a thing for smaller PSUs ... the silverstone microatx case indicated that if your psu fan is 120mm or larger it should be mounted to be included in case exhaust (which turned out on that case to be the only way it mounted, too) |
| 14:35.55 | Workfoz | Transformers 5: g0urra attacks |
| 14:36.17 | bluspacecow | drying dishes |
| 14:36.45 | bluspacecow | wait |
| 14:36.45 | bluspacecow | i did this gag yesterdaay |
| 14:36.45 | bluspacecow | NVM! |
| 14:37.23 | VIad | if you are on beta paste for fun: |
| 14:37.25 | VIad | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:37.35 | *** join/#wowuidev harl (harl@unaffiliated/harl) |
| 14:38.06 | *** join/#wowuidev smcn (smcn@71-32-245-248.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 14:38.40 | bluspacecow | is that going to mail all my gold off to Vlad . strip me nude and next thing I know I woke up in Mexico married to a goat ? |
| 14:39.25 | VIad | I would answer that seriously if I didn't know you know addons. :P |
| 14:40.53 | bluspacecow | i know addons ? |
| 14:41.06 | bluspacecow | like in a biblical sense ? or a nom nom cheese sense ? |
| 14:41.29 | bluspacecow | i hate PPRs :( |
| 14:42.47 | bluspacecow | also hate drying tupperware. so many nooks and crannies. |
| 14:45.38 | Henk_ | If I want the strata to be LOW + 1 is that possible? |
| 14:51.46 | Henk_ | My label is under the Cooldown even though it has a higher Strata http://a.pomf.se/qszuir.txt |
| 15:01.05 | *** join/#wowuidev stolenlegacy (~stolenleg@unaffiliated/stolenlegacy) |
| 15:03.45 | Henk_ | I cant figure this one out. I cant use SetFrameLevel on a font |
| 15:36.39 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 15:38.35 | VIad | ugh :( |
| 15:38.44 | VIad | anyone close to the blizz dev team that can relay a message? |
| 15:50.52 | Alram | they accidentally shipped half-life 3? |
| 15:52.02 | Stanzilla | VIad: want a screenshot of the tooltip or why? |
| 15:52.26 | VIad | Stanzilla: what? |
| 15:52.38 | Stanzilla | the tormmok link |
| 15:53.48 | VIad | come again? |
| 15:53.58 | Alram | the /run you posted |
| 15:54.11 | Alram | Stanzilla, i dont think thats what he meant by fun though |
| 15:54.37 | VIad | noo |
| 15:54.44 | Stanzilla | ok |
| 15:54.45 | VIad | it's for you to paste and link to others :P |
| 15:54.46 | VIad | for fun |
| 15:54.50 | VIad | "how you got that?" |
| 15:54.51 | Stanzilla | super fun |
| 15:54.52 | VIad | responses |
| 15:55.19 | VIad | if I need anything it's a way to raise mammoth awereness |
| 15:55.37 | VIad | mammoth hitboxes and sky golem, maybe more mounts, can't get up on ground if there is a ledge they must jump |
| 15:55.42 | VIad | issue is old, still ignored |
| 15:55.53 | VIad | should be a simple hitbox fix to correct this |
| 16:01.26 | nevcairiel | Its their way to get you to stop using fuxking annoying huge mounts on the ground |
| 16:13.12 | VIad | I often encounter this when I use my mammoth to give a lift to my friends. |
| 16:13.30 | VIad | If we by any chance fall in water, we have to remount everyone back on. |
| 16:14.13 | nevcairiel | Ever seen a huge mammoth climb out of a river? It just doesn't work! |
| 16:16.57 | VIad | :P |
| 16:24.29 | VIad | http://junk.bool.no/MammothAwareness.mp4 |
| 16:26.08 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajH4KLXMl9k I might crack and buy one |
| 16:30.26 | VIad | "it's a real person" lol |
| 16:30.31 | VIad | I yell that too when I watch 3D movies |
| 16:43.21 | *** join/#wowuidev Lopeppeppy_ (~Lopeppepp@141.222.23.76) |
| 17:00.19 | VIad | oh look a funpile! http://ss.bool.no/upload_91b70881.jpg |
| 17:05.00 | Shirik | um |
| 17:06.18 | *** part/#wowuidev foxlit (Fox@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:d316) |
| 17:06.21 | *** join/#wowuidev foxlit (Fox@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:d316) |
| 17:07.02 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 17:14.47 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 17:31.12 | foxlit | I wish Special:Export had an option to include all linked articles, rather than just all transcluded templates. |
| 17:32.22 | Fisker | hey foxlit |
| 17:32.24 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 17:32.48 | foxlit | jey |
| 17:34.47 | Semlar | VIad: i only want two of the values, i don't see any reason to use strsplit |
| 17:35.21 | VIad | isn't match more expensive? |
| 17:35.32 | VIad | split looks better in any case :P |
| 17:36.07 | Semlar | well split isn't a lua function so i'm assuming they just mapped it to gmatch or something |
| 17:36.18 | VIad | really? |
| 17:36.32 | Semlar | i don't care enough to look it up |
| 17:37.30 | VIad | besides Torhal probably knows, or nevcairiel |
| 17:37.51 | Guillotine | It's a custom function implemented in C++ (though obviously you could do the same thing in Lua, just not as fast) |
| 17:37.58 | Semlar | if i used strsplit i'd have to go local unitType, _, _, _, _, npcID = strsplit etc |
| 17:38.18 | Semlar | how does that look better than using strmatch |
| 17:38.37 | Guillotine | You could always use select(6, srsplit(...)) |
| 17:38.55 | Semlar | well now that definitely wouldn't be more efficient |
| 17:39.11 | Shirik | oops |
| 17:39.13 | Guillotine | Nope, but might look cleaner than a giant regex |
| 17:39.26 | Shirik | friend of mine made an administrator action on Wikipedia, and now it's in the washington post. |
| 17:39.29 | Shirik | http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/07/24/wikipedia-blocks-anonymous-edits-and-trolling-from-a-congressional-ip-address/ |
| 17:39.31 | Semlar | it also wouldn't give me the first value, not that it matters much |
| 17:40.06 | Guillotine | Yeah, if you need the first value too there isn't a super clean way to do it. |
| 17:40.40 | Torhal | You're stuck with firstValue, _, _, _, _, sixthValue = Semlar:split() |
| 17:40.40 | Shirik | hi Guillotine |
| 17:40.44 | Torhal | >.> |
| 17:41.08 | Semlar | i have no idea which is more efficient but i doubt it makes that much of a difference |
| 17:41.11 | Torhal | And yes, I did pseoducode as an excuse to split Semlar.\ |
| 17:41.30 | Torhal | pseudo* <-- Typing is hard. |
| 17:41.48 | Guillotine | Hi Shirik! |
| 17:42.29 | Torhal | Haven't seen you since BlizzCon, Guillotine. Thought you'd forsaken IRC. :D |
| 17:42.55 | Guillotine | I've been lurking! Just super busy :P |
| 17:42.57 | TC-Work | He lurks |
| 17:43.14 | VIad | :D |
| 17:43.20 | VIad | the lurker below |
| 17:43.31 | Torhal | Guess I hadn't been paying attention to the user list. |
| 17:43.38 | TC-Work | Not as himself |
| 17:43.43 | Torhal | Ah |
| 17:43.48 | TC-Work | Creepy lurker |
| 17:43.57 | Guillotine | Figured that now that AddOns were enabled on the Beta though, you guys will probably start finding awesome bugs that most users wouldn't :P |
| 17:45.13 | VIad | sad news: nameplates aren't any better :( |
| 17:45.40 | VIad | wonder what blizz is afraid of if they gave us a nameplate# unit type |
| 17:45.52 | Semlar | on the beta my hunter's 4 piece is giving him a buff that doesn't expire |
| 17:46.28 | Semlar | it gives you a stacking damage buff every time you attack with bestial wrath up and the buff is permanent |
| 17:46.33 | Torhal | The inability to determine whether a mount can fly and other things due to GetCompanionInfo being replaced with C_MountJournal.GetMountInfo isn't exactly a bug, but it sucks. |
| 17:46.50 | VIad | Torhal: LibMounts <-> DBC interface |
| 17:46.52 | foxlit | The fact that GetCompanionInfo is still around and broken is a bug, though. |
| 17:46.54 | Torhal | WTB bitfield like the old function had. |
| 17:46.58 | VIad | since the DBC files contain all the bitfields and more |
| 17:47.14 | VIad | I said it earlier, we should get a C_DBC.# :P |
| 17:47.23 | VIad | to use for queries and such, read data that we need |
| 17:47.36 | Semlar | i don't think they want us to have access to whatever we want |
| 17:47.51 | VIad | we still do it |
| 17:48.03 | VIad | by making lib addons and luaifying the DBC contents |
| 17:48.16 | Semlar | that doesn't necessarily mean they want to make it easier |
| 17:48.16 | VIad | so they aren't doing a good job - just making it tidious to keep all the libs up to date :p |
| 17:48.28 | Torhal | gets started on LibLuaifyVIad. |
| 17:48.41 | VIad | might as well make all of us happy if you ask me - even they could use their C_DBC for lookups, instead of making weird API shortcuts :p |
| 17:48.50 | VIad | btw |
| 17:48.52 | VIad | LibDBC |
| 17:48.55 | VIad | let's do it |
| 17:49.01 | TC-Work | No one is stopping you. |
| 17:49.12 | VIad | sadly it's gonna be like 100MB or 200MB Lib:P |
| 17:49.15 | Semlar | um i extracted the spell database once and it was like a 50mb table in lua |
| 17:49.20 | Torhal | I personally wouldn't use a multi-megabyte kitchen-sink library. |
| 17:49.39 | VIad | maybe one could use compression |
| 17:49.42 | VIad | remember carbonite? |
| 17:49.43 | Torhal | ... |
| 17:49.47 | Semlar | then it would use more cpu |
| 17:49.49 | VIad | they used a loadstring combined with compression |
| 17:49.57 | VIad | only during the loading |
| 17:50.06 | Semlar | so you load slower! |
| 17:50.08 | Torhal | is tempted to put VIad on ignore because not sure if trolling or... |
| 17:50.09 | TC-Work | Space is cheaper than CPU power atm |
| 17:50.20 | VIad | lax |
| 17:50.33 | foxlit | Torhal: just clueless, tbh. Itâs a persistent problem with him. |
| 17:50.39 | Torhal | Heh. |
| 17:50.39 | VIad | lol |
| 17:51.05 | TC-Work | A single instance of a 100MB lib might be worth it if enough addons sourced from it. |
| 17:51.17 | VIad | what about |
| 17:51.20 | VIad | LibDBC with modules |
| 17:51.20 | Semlar | yeah, how many addons would that take |
| 17:51.22 | VIad | LibDBC_Spells |
| 17:51.24 | VIad | LibDBC_X |
| 17:51.29 | VIad | modular loading what modules you need |
| 17:51.32 | TC-Work | Not sure what the size of addons are anymore |
| 17:51.38 | Torhal | Plus the fact that every one of those AddOns would have to include the 100MB file. |
| 17:51.49 | TC-Work | I did say single instance |
| 17:51.50 | VIad | not if you keep the lib separate |
| 17:51.52 | Torhal | Unless you're talking Lua memory size and not file size. |
| 17:52.05 | Semlar | the files wouldn't be 100mb |
| 17:52.17 | VIad | that is a problem, handling libraries. often embeded downloads are prefered, but as lib size grows... |
| 17:52.22 | Torhal | If you put ALL THE THINGS in it, it just may! |
| 17:52.38 | Semlar | i don't know how big every dbc combined would be |
| 17:52.50 | Semlar | the main thing would be the localized strings |
| 17:53.03 | Semlar | which would have to be localized for every locale |
| 17:53.50 | Semlar | anyway, there's no way enough addons would use it to ever make it worth having one giant library |
| 17:54.30 | TC-Work | Would it be possible to create an on-the-fly localization addon to pipe other addons through? I realise it would be unrealistic, just curious if it is possible. |
| 17:54.48 | Guillotine | Torhal: Fixed. In the next build GetMountInfoExtra returns the "mountTypeID". You guys will have to figure out what the different typeIDs mean, but at least there are way fewer |
| 17:55.05 | Guillotine | <3 |
| 17:55.35 | Semlar | by the way C_Vignettes.GetVignetteGUID is bugged if 2 rare icons are on the minimap and then one of them leaves it |
| 17:55.47 | foxlit | Guillotine: putting it into Extra is kind of weird. |
| 17:56.19 | Semlar | it can return the GUID of the vignette that isn't in range any more so you can't get information about the one that is there |
| 17:56.46 | Semlar | so you basically can't use that function and expect a reliable result |
| 17:56.51 | VIad | Guillotine: was it posted on some changelog? twitter? |
| 17:57.06 | TC-Work | VIad: He made the change. |
| 17:57.31 | foxlit | (Extra exposes descriptions, other âthis is an X mountâ information, such as faction, source, name, etc is in normal Info.) |
| 17:57.40 | VIad | that's nice - hey Guillotine - wanna fix mammoth and sky golem hitboxes so they can jump out from water if they are swimming and wanna utilize water walking? :P |
| 17:58.16 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 18:00.05 | Guillotine | foxlit: But extra pushes mostly static information while the other pushes largely dynamic information |
| 18:00.32 | Guillotine | VIad: Sadly, don't think that's a UI issue :P |
| 18:00.40 | VIad | nope! it's a model hitbox issue :D |
| 18:01.09 | Semlar | is vignette GUIDs missing NPC IDs a UI issue |
| 18:01.11 | VIad | been an issue with mammoths since they were added in wotlk, but sad to see more newer models being affected by the same issue - hence sky golem, probably more. |
| 18:02.43 | Guillotine | Semlar: I'll make sure it gets bugged |
| 18:02.48 | Semlar | >_> |
| 18:02.49 | foxlit | Guillotine: âmostlyâ. As it stands, Iâll basically call both: one to figure out what the mount is called, another to figure out what it does. I donât particularly need descriptive text, though. |
| 18:02.54 | Guillotine | VIad: Post it on the bug report forum :) |
| 18:03.01 | VIad | I shall - again :3 |
| 18:03.08 | Semlar | wait is there a bug report forum for the beta |
| 18:03.17 | VIad | I think it's on the US yes |
| 18:03.24 | Semlar | i didn't see one |
| 18:03.43 | Guillotine | There definitely is in the US. Not sure about elsewhere. |
| 18:03.57 | Semlar | ah i see it |
| 18:05.05 | Semlar | i don't know how i missed this |
| 18:05.43 | Gethe | Guillotine: i reported a bug a few builds about class colors in chat producing errors. any word? |
| 18:07.23 | Guillotine | Gethe: I *think* that's fixed in the next build. I know it's definitely on our list if not though |
| 18:07.58 | Gethe | thanks <3 |
| 18:12.07 | Guillotine | Semlar: What did you mean about GetVignetteGUID returning the wrong vignette? It looks like you can pass in an index and get up to GetNumVignettes() GUIDs |
| 18:13.24 | Semlar | okay, basically on the beta if i go to the timeless isle and run past some rares so there are a few icons on the minimap and then i move so only one of them is visible |
| 18:13.33 | Semlar | and i call GetNumVignettes() it will return 1 |
| 18:13.53 | Semlar | but calling GetVignetteGUID(1) returns the GUID of one of the icons that isn't on the minimap any more |
| 18:14.02 | Semlar | and calling it on any other number returns nothing |
| 18:14.07 | Guillotine | Got it, thanks! |
| 18:14.15 | Semlar | so basically you can't get the GUID of the icon that IS on the screen |
| 18:14.57 | Semlar | you can still get info about it though if you already know the GUID |
| 18:15.09 | Semlar | you just can't query the GUID |
| 18:17.31 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3 (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 18:18.32 | Torhal | Guillotine: Sweet! |
| 18:18.35 | Torhal | Thankye. |
| 18:19.21 | kd3 | think it's time to bite the bullet and get a new sd card for my pi |
| 18:19.52 | Semlar | i'm not sure if the vignette not containing the object/npc ID is intentional or not, but other than that they're identical to the regular unit GUID |
| 18:21.43 | Guillotine | Semlar: I think it's intentional. You probably aren't going to get the object/npc in the GUID. |
| 18:22.12 | Semlar | hmm okay |
| 18:22.48 | kd3 | wtb auto-loot being on as the default for new characters |
| 18:22.55 | Semlar | i was hoping to be able to display a model for the vignette |
| 18:31.23 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~Lasse@cm-84.212.85.55.getinternet.no) |
| 18:33.40 | Guillotine | Semlar: Fixed the GetVignetteGUID issue. Good catch! |
| 18:33.48 | Semlar | oo thanks |
| 18:36.44 | Simca | Guillotine: I noticed you guys started using LOOT_READY in place of LOOT_OPENED - should we expect LOOT_READY to be the new event to watch for us to data loot-based data in the future? |
| 18:39.03 | Simca | to use loot-based data* |
| 18:39.12 | Mr_Rabies | LOOT_REGGIE |
| 18:39.25 | Mr_Rabies | also kd3: i'd settle for it just being a global setting |
| 18:39.35 | Mr_Rabies | made a new rogue yesterday and was like WHY AM I NOT LOOTING THINGS |
| 18:39.46 | kd3 | I asked in the 6.0 changes thread on the forums and got shot down |
| 18:41.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@aftr-88-217-180-95.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#wowuidev Yoshimo (~Miranda@unaffiliated/yoshimo) |
| 18:44.22 | Guillotine | Simca: I don't know off-hand, sorry. |
| 18:44.41 | Simca | no worries |
| 18:45.32 | Simca | I did a find-replace of LOOT_OPENED with LOOT_READY and everything seems to be working okay in WoD but wasn't sure if intended |
| 18:49.50 | Semlar | i don't suppose there's something like an encounter journal for rares in WoD |
| 18:50.22 | Gethe | not that i've seen |
| 18:51.44 | kd3 | that'd be awesome to have. I know I'm missing some in smv/frostfire, but I have no idea where |
| 18:52.10 | Semlar | one of my users wants me to essentially write notes about every rare with special instructions |
| 18:52.35 | VIad | Guillotine: any chances we can ever get a unit type "nameplate#"? if not any chance nameplates would come prebundled with the GUID of what ever they are showing at least? I.e. players would have a .guid with the UnitGUID value of that player and so forth. |
| 18:52.42 | kd3 | go "some insane admin at wowpedia has already done that" |
| 18:53.11 | Stanzilla | Guillotine: can you tell me anything about why the client creates folders called "(null)" and character name folders in account level folder in WTF? |
| 18:53.36 | Semlar | making a rare encounter journal is a leetle outside the scope of this tiny addon |
| 18:53.47 | Stanzilla | that started with 5.0 or so |
| 18:54.26 | Semlar | i guess if i have to store a database of rares i might as well put some extra information in there |
| 18:55.44 | *** join/#wowuidev zenzelezz (~Lasse@cm-84.212.85.55.getinternet.no) |
| 18:59.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Mihau (~Mihau@76.164.170.2) |
| 19:06.07 | VIad | we scared him off guys - too many questions! |
| 19:15.59 | *** join/#wowuidev zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) |
| 19:16.41 | VIad | Torhal: is there an elegant way to make the contents of a table read-only? |
| 19:16.57 | VIad | i.e. read what you like in the table but you can't alter the values |
| 19:17.17 | Semlar | you could use a metatable to prevent values from being overwritten |
| 19:17.45 | Semlar | probably not a great idea to do it in the first place though |
| 19:18.41 | VIad | Semlar: for fun I converted DBC to lua tables :P |
| 19:18.46 | VIad | just above 100MB files |
| 19:18.50 | VIad | everything |
| 19:19.01 | Semlar | the files themselves take up that much space? |
| 19:19.31 | VIad | yes |
| 19:19.35 | Semlar | those tables are going to take up a ton of memory |
| 19:19.41 | VIad | you bet |
| 19:20.06 | VIad | 12.8MB if I 7z it, not that it matters :P |
| 19:20.11 | Semlar | and there's really only a handful of useful DBCs |
| 19:20.25 | Semlar | in my opinion |
| 19:20.48 | Semlar | and you'd only need the information that isn't available in game |
| 19:20.49 | VIad | ofc |
| 19:20.50 | Guillotine | VIad: We're hesitant to provide more information on nameplates given how many times they've been used for exploitative purposes (e.g. using their position to calculate your exact camera angle) |
| 19:21.29 | Guillotine | Stanzilla: Probably a bug |
| 19:21.37 | Semlar | we would kill to not have to jump through so many hoops to tie a unit GUID to a nameplate |
| 19:21.45 | VIad | Guillotine: secondary followup question. will auras ever be something they will show natively? kind of missing that. PlateBuffs exists, but to make auras appear on nameplates takes a ton of custom code - huge maintenance demand each time something combat log wise changes. |
| 19:22.37 | VIad | it is possible to tie a unit to a nameplate - once you target it once it knows that unit that is - so as long the nameplate is on screen it can do anything - even the exploit you mention |
| 19:23.35 | Stanzilla | Guillotine: I'd love you long time if you'd accept that as a official bug report :) |
| 19:24.15 | Guillotine | Semlar: Yeah, I totally understand. It might happen someday, but I'd have to have the time to really think about how we lock it down to not be too dangerous. |
| 19:24.41 | Semlar | getting the camera angle would only work with nameplates from units in your group because you know their actual positions |
| 19:25.07 | Semlar | and getting those GUIDs would be trivial because you can get it from their name |
| 19:25.55 | Semlar | actually i had an api request |
| 19:26.12 | Guillotine | VIad: If that's something you'd like to see, post about it on the forums! Our designers who make those decisions do read the forums. |
| 19:26.22 | Semlar | would it be at all possible to get the "GetCurrentPosition" function reimplemented |
| 19:26.29 | Semlar | http://wowpedia.org/API_GetCurrentPosition |
| 19:26.57 | Semlar | trying to use the map functions to get the player's position is really tedious because only one addon can use the map at a time |
| 19:27.01 | VIad | once a nameplate is shown and you mouseover it, target it, e.g. any action that clarifies what frame is what unit; once you have that connection you can easier update the data it contains by reading nearby units, so from that point you don't even have to target to get the API to update you on what the unit is doing, thus updating their nameplate. |
| 19:27.45 | VIad | Guillotine: I shall do a post on the forums :) |
| 19:30.46 | Guillotine | Semlar: Hopefully someday, but probably not in 6.0. |
| 19:31.58 | Guillotine | Anyway, going to get back to work, so probably won't be able to answer questions for a bit |
| 19:32.15 | Semlar | i think it was removed back when an addon could actually make a player walk around |
| 19:36.08 | *** join/#wowuidev Esamynn|work (cc32712b@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Esamynn) |
| 19:36.08 | *** mode/#wowuidev [+v Esamynn|work] by ChanServ |
| 19:42.14 | VIad | yes Semlar, back in 1.3.0 |
| 19:42.22 | VIad | people could then bot purely with lua :P |
| 19:42.37 | VIad | I miss the old world map position baby |
| 19:42.48 | VIad | aw man imagine how much more accurate data you could produce with that baby! |
| 19:43.14 | VIad | atm travel estimation can't handle Z axis so the time is off by some when you fly, or when terrain is uneven :P |
| 19:43.57 | Semlar | well, you could do the same thing a GPS does |
| 19:44.07 | VIad | yes |
| 19:44.12 | Semlar | see how much time it's taken the player to travel between two points on the line |
| 19:44.22 | VIad | jupp |
| 19:44.31 | VIad | but the largest bonus is not relying on the map API |
| 19:44.39 | VIad | setting the map to a specific area just to get a position |
| 19:44.50 | VIad | in general the map API should be reworked as well |
| 19:45.08 | Semlar | right now if you want the player's position and they're looking at a map other than the one they're on you have to switch the map to the current one which is bad |
| 19:45.23 | VIad | aye |
| 19:45.38 | VIad | btw is beta down for the next 3 hours? |
| 19:46.04 | VIad | thought maintenance days were on tuesdays, not thursday |
| 19:46.14 | kd3 | I don't think they're down yet. beta maintenance is whenever they're ready for a new build |
| 19:46.17 | Semlar | i think you can probably assume the beta will be down whenever you want to use it |
| 19:48.59 | VIad | I really want to see how much RAM the addon uses :p |
| 19:49.59 | VIad | Semlar: was there any API to figure out what creature is involved with what quest? |
| 19:50.15 | VIad | You see the tooltip shows the quest information on a creature, when it's quest related on a quest you got. |
| 19:50.26 | VIad | Just curious if they improved it. I remember long ago you had to tooltip scan. |
| 19:51.16 | Semlar | um for my questplates addon i just scanned the tooltip to figure out if it was a quest objective |
| 19:51.31 | VIad | yeah |
| 19:51.40 | VIad | so no IsQuestNPC(unit) :P |
| 19:51.58 | kd3 | there's a call, but only for the named quest targets that show the ! shield |
| 19:52.09 | Primer | Well, that didn't take long: http://boycottsystemd.org/ |
| 19:52.10 | Semlar | it wouldn't matter, i'd still have to scan the tooltip |
| 19:52.17 | Primer | I'm sure this has been linked here before :) |
| 19:53.17 | Semlar | if i want to put whether the unit is a quest target on the nameplate i don't have a unit id to work with |
| 19:53.26 | VIad | ofc |
| 19:53.27 | Semlar | i literally just have their name |
| 19:53.34 | VIad | names can be deceiving |
| 19:54.20 | VIad | Semlar: know a way I can add a US starter account to my EU account? |
| 19:54.21 | Semlar | well if you have two units with the same name and only one of them happens to be a quest objective you're probably SOL |
| 19:54.25 | VIad | I only got starter account for EU :( |
| 19:54.41 | kd3 | there's a way, uh... lemme see if I can find it again |
| 19:54.57 | foxlit | turn off nameplates, turn on quest NPC-only names. |
| 19:55.05 | foxlit | âDo I need to kill this?â problem solved. |
| 19:55.15 | Semlar | nah that just raises different problems |
| 19:55.17 | VIad | kd3: found it! :D |
| 19:55.28 | VIad | store, change region, click starter account :p |
| 19:55.29 | Fisker | I raised you Semlar |
| 19:55.36 | smcn | PSA: WoD beta servers getting renamed, make sure to rename WTF folders appropriately: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/327768-beta-server-renaming-july-24th/ |
| 19:55.41 | Semlar | people don't want to have to turn off nameplates to check whether they should kill a mob for a quest |
| 19:55.55 | VIad | danke |
| 19:56.14 | VIad | I wonder if we will ever be able to rename our accounts |
| 19:56.18 | VIad | WOW# kind of hard to keep track :P |
| 19:56.36 | foxlit | Semlar: spare no thought for people who arenât me :) |
| 19:56.41 | VIad | not to mention the WTF folder uses 1325643#8 |
| 19:58.53 | Semlar | i'm too lazy to actually set up the controls on my beta account so it's a non-issue |
| 19:59.36 | foxlit | I find that my beta SVs do not persist anyway |
| 20:00.00 | foxlit | (so a long time ago I just decided to set the defaults based on my preferences, so zero reconfiguration necessary if I lose SVs) |
| 20:00.12 | Fisker | :O |
| 20:00.46 | Semlar | wait, people have preferences other than mine? |
| 20:00.57 | Semlar | well that's unfortunate for them |
| 20:01.12 | foxlit | version+2: remove more configuration options. |
| 20:02.08 | haste | Primer: ugh, I honestly don't see the problem with systemd |
| 20:02.14 | haste | Primer: and point 8 seems stupid |
| 20:02.44 | VIad | haste: don't say that - Primer wrote point 8! |
| 20:02.49 | Fisker | I like the point about them saying they won't use it |
| 20:02.54 | Fisker | Problem solved |
| 20:03.06 | haste | VIad: then Primer is stupid! |
| 20:03.17 | Fisker | You're stupid haste |
| 20:03.18 | VIad | I thought you cared for Primer! |
| 20:03.23 | Fisker | But I kind of like you |
| 20:03.37 | VIad | is shy. |
| 20:03.52 | Primer | well, I just recall that there has been heated discussion regarding systemd here before |
| 20:03.54 | Fisker | Me too |
| 20:03.58 | Primer | so I thought I'd add fuel to the fire |
| 20:04.05 | Primer | I've had some issues with systemd |
| 20:04.09 | Primer | yesterday, in fact |
| 20:04.15 | Fisker | Why do you hate on systems? |
| 20:04.15 | foxlit | #wowuidev-linuxtechsupport. |
| 20:04.22 | Fisker | Systemd* |
| 20:04.42 | foxlit | -andallsortsofothernonsense, really, so carry on. |
| 20:04.45 | Primer | as there seems to be no standard way to turn services on and off at boot other than renaming files manually |
| 20:04.49 | Fisker | Yeah foxlit #wowuidev-neeerds |
| 20:06.20 | *** part/#wowuidev ben (~ben@londeroth.org) |
| 20:06.43 | Esamynn|work | Vilkku_: what's this about not relying upon the map API? |
| 20:06.48 | Esamynn|work | err, sorry Vilkku_ |
| 20:06.54 | Vilkku_ | :o |
| 20:06.57 | Esamynn|work | seems my target isn't in IRC anymore |
| 20:07.08 | Esamynn|work | (VIad) and I used tab complete |
| 20:07.19 | foxlit | his away nick actually uses an L |
| 20:07.25 | Esamynn|work | so it is |
| 20:07.36 | Fisker | Jerk move |
| 20:07.50 | Esamynn|work | seems true to form... |
| 20:08.49 | Esamynn|work | oh... he changes it to an l when he goes away |
| 20:09.21 | Esamynn|work | seems I'm a little slow on the uptake today :/ |
| 20:11.06 | Semlar | i was trying to convince the ui dev to reimplement a way to get the player's coordinates without changing the map |
| 20:11.20 | Esamynn|work | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 20:11.29 | Semlar | tries to calm esamynn down |
| 20:11.46 | foxlit | But then the question is, which coordinates? |
| 20:11.52 | Semlar | the instance coordinates |
| 20:11.56 | Esamynn|work | been there, done that... a few times Semlar |
| 20:11.59 | foxlit | What if there are multiple maps? |
| 20:11.59 | Fisker | omg Esamynn|Away |
| 20:12.08 | Semlar | the maps all belong to the same instance |
| 20:12.26 | Semlar | the player can only be in one instance |
| 20:12.43 | Esamynn|work | bottom line, the mapping stuff is so fragile, everyone at Blizzard is afraid to touch it |
| 20:12.53 | Semlar | i can't blame them |
| 20:13.03 | foxlit | youâre using a meaning of instance that isnât the usual one, but okay. |
| 20:13.16 | TC-Work | Lies, they are afraid to let end users touch it. |
| 20:13.31 | Fisker | I'll touch you |
| 20:13.38 | Semlar | well i'm sorry but the map terms are very mixed up |
| 20:13.39 | TC-Work | Acceptable. |
| 20:14.00 | Semlar | when i say instance i'm talking about like kalimdor or eastern kingdoms |
| 20:14.13 | Esamynn|work | Semlar: I haven't gotten into the beta yet, hopefully next week... any interesting new hacks you've noticed yet? |
| 20:14.19 | *** join/#wowuidev ikcerog (~ikcerog@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) |
| 20:14.24 | foxlit | letâs call that continent coordinates. |
| 20:14.39 | Semlar | no because they're instance servers |
| 20:15.08 | Gnarfoz | they're instances just as much as dungeons |
| 20:15.21 | Gnarfoz | just with the biggest maps of them all |
| 20:15.34 | Fisker | Can you really say that anymore? |
| 20:15.49 | Gnarfoz | you can't stop me |
| 20:15.58 | Semlar | from the standpoint of the map coordinates, they're instances |
| 20:16.05 | Fisker | wanna bet Gnarfoz ? |
| 20:16.12 | Gnarfoz | I once killed a guy, Fisker |
| 20:16.17 | Fisker | me too |
| 20:16.22 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Gnarfoz |
| 20:16.22 | purl | blasts Gnarfoz to oblivion with a kamehameha wave |
| 20:16.23 | Fisker | he questioned my logic |
| 20:16.25 | Esamynn|work | ~lart Fisker |
| 20:16.25 | purl | puts Fisker through a wood chipper |
| 20:17.12 | Fisker | I'm just saying with all the coalescing stuff D: |
| 20:17.28 | foxlit | Semlar: the point is to avoid overloading the word âinstance,â so that standpoint isnât very helpful :) |
| 20:17.55 | Semlar | unfortunately continents mean something different when you're dealing with the maps |
| 20:18.04 | *** join/#wowuidev Amarande (amarande@24-151-100-63.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com) |
| 20:18.27 | Esamynn|work | aye, a continent often is made of multiple "world maps" these days |
| 20:18.33 | Esamynn|work | terrain maps? |
| 20:18.38 | Esamynn|work | not sure what the best term would be |
| 20:18.50 | Gnarfoz | instances |
| 20:18.51 | Gnarfoz | :p |
| 20:18.55 | Semlar | >_> |
| 20:19.02 | foxlit | chunk of contigious coordinate space. |
| 20:19.09 | Esamynn|work | I suspect the mapping system is full of hacks to work around the actual implementation |
| 20:19.20 | Esamynn|work | foxlit: good, but needs to be shorter |
| 20:19.23 | kd3 | suspect? that's being generous |
| 20:19.26 | Esamynn|work | more concise |
| 20:19.30 | Gnarfoz | going from PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD it could even be fair to call them "worlds" |
| 20:19.44 | foxlit | ^ works for me. |
| 20:19.48 | Gnarfoz | since instance boundaries are exactly where that fires |
| 20:19.48 | Fisker | or player spaces Gnarfoz |
| 20:20.14 | Esamynn|work | kd3: trust me, I know better than most how kind I was being :) |
| 20:20.33 | Alram | wow's map system is fine |
| 20:20.37 | Alram | they only switch around xyz randomly |
| 20:20.43 | Gnarfoz | that totally sounds "fine" |
| 20:20.44 | Gnarfoz | :D |
| 20:20.50 | Alram | and use different coordinate system for every single thing |
| 20:20.52 | Fisker | even z? |
| 20:20.52 | Esamynn|work | Alram: you have nooo clue |
| 20:20.54 | Fisker | geez |
| 20:20.57 | Alram | i do Esamynn|work actually |
| 20:20.58 | Alram | haha |
| 20:21.02 | Gnarfoz | Alram: I'm now watching Dr Who btw |
| 20:21.10 | Alram | good job Gnarfoz |
| 20:21.13 | Esamynn|work | if you're saying it's "fine" you're out of your mind if you actually know the system well |
| 20:21.14 | End | don't some maps cross "world" boundaries even (ie the continent/cosmic maps?) ...or do they not show player indicators on those maps |
| 20:21.20 | Alram | Esamynn|work, that was heavy sarcasm |
| 20:21.21 | Fisker | I watched Doctor Who before it became mainstream |
| 20:21.25 | Gnarfoz | (and appropriately watching my PROCRASTINATE! t-shirt (which I got before I had watched even one epsidode :o) |
| 20:21.33 | Esamynn|work | Alram: you missed the sarcasm closing tag :P |
| 20:21.41 | Gnarfoz | End: we were being technical - you're going the other direction ^^ |
| 20:21.43 | Semlar | i should write a glossary |
| 20:21.51 | Alram | i was hoping the randomly switching around xyz would imply sarcasm :P |
| 20:21.57 | kd3 | they broke outland a few years ago flying between HFP and netherstorm through the void |
| 20:21.57 | Esamynn|work | haha |
| 20:21.59 | Esamynn|work | touche |
| 20:22.03 | kd3 | that still annoys me |
| 20:22.05 | Alram | its funny because thats not even a joke :( |
| 20:22.10 | Esamynn|work | oh, I know |
| 20:22.13 | foxlit | EK/Ghostlands share continent levels for positions. |
| 20:22.28 | End | oh yeah that's a better example of what I was thinking of |
| 20:22.35 | foxlit | cosmic map shows nothing. |
| 20:22.42 | Semlar | ghostlands are part of outland's instance |
| 20:22.47 | Esamynn|work | I wrote Astrolabe, in part, as an attempt to help "protect" the vast majority of authors from the epic cludge that is the world map |
| 20:22.47 | Alram | yeah whomever thought that was a good idea was being bad |
| 20:23.04 | Gnarfoz | *whoever? |
| 20:23.07 | foxlit | but more realistically, itâd be nice to have mapID1, x1, y1, ⦠= GetPlayerMapPositions() and x, y = GetPlayerMapPosition(mapID) |
| 20:23.19 | kd3 | always a fun gif when talking about the wow map: http://wowpedia.org/File:Stratholme_and_Deatholme.gif |
| 20:23.20 | Esamynn|work | all of the TBC zones are in the same "instance" |
| 20:23.32 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: but as you well know (and have contributed to): we can't have nice things. |
| 20:23.40 | Esamynn|work | outland and both starting areas |
| 20:23.43 | foxlit | âwhere am I on the Ghostlands map? where am I on the Eastern Kingdoms map? Which maps am I on?â |
| 20:24.09 | Semlar | well, technically your coordinates belong to outland's instance |
| 20:24.21 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: we canât have nice things because Blizzard isnât interested in investing the pitiful amounts of developer time itâd take to fix a large amount of those issues. |
| 20:24.22 | Semlar | they're transformed into eastern kingdom on the map |
| 20:24.43 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: pitiful amounts of time in your imagination, though |
| 20:24.46 | Semlar | you have a "display instance" and a real instance |
| 20:24.54 | Alram | its not pitiful amounts for the map system really |
| 20:24.55 | Semlar | the real instance is outland, the display instance is EK |
| 20:24.56 | Alram | sadly |
| 20:25.09 | Alram | its so baked into the engine it'll probably take all of the titan team a year to fix |
| 20:25.17 | Gnarfoz | the golfing team? |
| 20:25.19 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: I imagine my imagination is pretty good at estimating how long some of the things Iâm thinking of would take to implement. |
| 20:25.31 | Gnarfoz | well, but you can't even know what needs implementing. |
| 20:25.39 | Gnarfoz | unless you know their code? :P |
| 20:25.40 | Alram | one of the WoW devs even admitted to me on Twitter they're just going with it instead of fixing |
| 20:25.43 | Alram | so sad :( |
| 20:25.43 | Esamynn|work | Alram: and then, THEN they implemented the new cities in MoP using micro-dungeon map tech |
| 20:25.45 | Esamynn|work | ARRRG! |
| 20:25.54 | End | I would not be surprised if it'd take less time/effort to reimplement the system from scratch |
| 20:26.05 | Gnarfoz | End: probably |
| 20:26.08 | Semlar | the microdungeons are ridiculous because you can't set the map to them unless you're inside of it |
| 20:26.14 | Esamynn|work | ^ |
| 20:26.20 | Semlar | AND they use the area id of their parent map |
| 20:26.25 | Semlar | which is WHY you can't set the map to them |
| 20:26.38 | End | oh I have quassel open twice |
| 20:26.40 | Gnarfoz | just playing my usual devil's advocate on such things: we can't know, since we're don't have access to the full horrors :D |
| 20:26.46 | End | that explains why it's being so noisy about notifications |
| 20:26.49 | Esamynn|work | they hacked microdungeon maps into the dungeon floor system |
| 20:27.07 | Semlar | yeah, like skull rock is a floor of durotar |
| 20:27.12 | Semlar | it's level 16 or something |
| 20:27.20 | Esamynn|work | Gnarfoz: I've had many conversations with those who do, however |
| 20:27.28 | Gnarfoz | sure |
| 20:27.37 | foxlit | Gnarfoz: youâre correct for some issues, but not all of them. There are bugs confined to the visible portions of FrameXML that we can reason rather safely about. |
| 20:27.42 | Semlar | you can't get to skull rock's map by setting the floor though |
| 20:28.21 | Semlar | oh, right, esamynn, there are at least 2 new map functions |
| 20:28.31 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: can't argue with that, of course |
| 20:28.41 | Esamynn|work | I think that's a symptom of they didn't want to reveal that a map had floors for the outside world unless you were in a place that used those floors |
| 20:28.54 | Esamynn|work | you know, make the UI make more sense |
| 20:28.54 | Semlar | one is GetMapHierarchy which tells you the parent maps of the current one that you get when you right click to zoom out |
| 20:29.48 | Alram | https://twitter.com/Marlamin/status/463762816252784640 great discussion i had with a dev about one of the awful coord systems wow has |
| 20:30.07 | Semlar | and one is GetMapSubzones which tells you the children map of the current one, which is like orgrimmar, valley of trials, and echo isles |
| 20:30.11 | Alram | tldr; "turns out massive refactoring to improve something w/ 0 impact on players, tiny impact on a cpl devs != path to victory" |
| 20:30.20 | Semlar | for furotar |
| 20:30.25 | Semlar | durotar* i can't type |
| 20:31.04 | foxlit | speaking of bugs confined to visible portions of FrameXML, I found an awesome one that I really should package some code for soon. |
| 20:31.11 | Amarande | Semlar: just call it "Land of Red Rocks" |
| 20:31.15 | Amarande | oh, wait, there's way too many of those in wow, heh |
| 20:31.28 | Esamynn|work | Alram: sounds about right |
| 20:32.02 | Semlar | also GetMapContinents and GetMapZones give you ids for the maps but i don't remember what kind of IDs they are, i don't think they're the area ID |
| 20:32.23 | Semlar | actually they might be the area ID |
| 20:32.35 | Semlar | i'd have to check |
| 20:32.37 | Gnarfoz | foxlit: dazzle us ;) |
| 20:33.08 | Gnarfoz | although I think the prng stunt will be hard to beat ^^ |
| 20:33.13 | Henk_Away | Hey Semlar why is the text below the cooldown? http://a.pomf.se/ppmowe.txt http://a.pomf.se/stpdkg.png |
| 20:33.23 | Esamynn|work | Semlar: see Astrolabe for details, I reverse engineered those already |
| 20:33.53 | Fisker | nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 20:33.55 | Semlar | make the font string a child of the cooldown frame |
| 20:34.06 | Esamynn|work | Alram: what is that in the picture you linked in that twitter thread? |
| 20:34.15 | Henk_ | Thats what im doing |
| 20:34.24 | Alram | Esamynn|work: stuff from http://marlamin.com/minimaps/ im working on |
| 20:34.24 | Semlar | no you have f:CreateFontString |
| 20:34.33 | Semlar | the cooldown spinner is f.cd |
| 20:34.36 | End | f.cd.l = f:CreateFontString(nil, "OVERLAY"); --> f.cd.l = f.cd:CreateFontString(nil, "OVERLAY"); |
| 20:34.59 | Alram | zone boundaries/areaids extracted from adt and displayed on map |
| 20:35.05 | Henk_ | thanks |
| 20:35.44 | Esamynn|work | ahh, cool |
| 20:35.52 | Henk_ | that has been troubling me for quite a while |
| 20:36.53 | Semlar | plus if the text is a child of the cooldown spinner you don't have to manually hide and show it separately |
| 20:37.22 | Henk_ | Semlar I do a SetText() to clear it |
| 20:37.48 | Esamynn|work | Alram: I've never gone that far because I don't have the time to keep something up-to-date that relies on data I have to hardcode and update on a regular basis instead of the AddOn just processing it from the game API |
| 20:38.07 | Alram | yeah i can imagine |
| 20:38.16 | Alram | ive got most of that stuff automated now thankfully |
| 20:38.35 | Gnarfoz | break out and just start reading DBCs straight from the files... from the addon environment |
| 20:38.44 | Esamynn|work | heh, but how often do you have to update the automation? ;) |
| 20:39.01 | Alram | before WoD not often |
| 20:39.18 | Alram | still learning the new file format, but almost got WoD fully automated too |
| 20:39.38 | Esamynn|work | nice |
| 20:40.07 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:40.14 | Esamynn|work | would you mind if I tapped you at some point if I decide I want more internal map details for something? |
| 20:40.20 | Alram | sure np |
| 20:40.46 | Alram | mhhm Semlar |
| 20:40.51 | Alram | thats the one bridge i havent crossed yet |
| 20:40.51 | Gnarfoz | Semlar: omgwhat |
| 20:40.54 | Alram | WMO parsing :( |
| 20:40.58 | Semlar | ^_^ |
| 20:41.19 | Semlar | i couldn't keep everything straight in my head so i had to do something while i was writing my python script |
| 20:41.34 | Semlar | this would not help anyone else |
| 20:41.36 | End | WMO parsing is a huge pain in the butt |
| 20:41.45 | End | it's where I got out of the minimap textures game |
| 20:42.02 | Alram | its poopy |
| 20:42.11 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.14 | Alram | but on my list, will tackle eventually i guess |
| 20:43.13 | End | I think I was trying to do it right when TBC went into beta too, which made me despair because a bunch of stuff changed suddenly |
| 20:43.15 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/u8ys03x.jpg yeah wmos are great to work with |
| 20:43.28 | Alram | yeah thats the worst |
| 20:44.41 | Semlar | with the new archive format i might as well throw my script out the window |
| 20:45.09 | Semlar | i'd basically need a new version of stormlib for it |
| 20:46.10 | Alram | its being worked on |
| 20:46.14 | Alram | just a matter of time |
| 20:46.25 | Vlad|Away | Alram: WarcraftHeroes I hope that isn't in WOD :P |
| 20:46.36 | Alram | it was an experiment |
| 20:46.38 | Alram | they canned it |
| 20:46.41 | Vlad|Away | awww |
| 20:46.50 | VIad | would be fun to explore :P |
| 20:47.24 | Alram | well its still there i think |
| 20:49.11 | VIad | made a starter account on US and have a level 2 char - how long does it take for the forums to acknowledge the fact I got a character? :P still telling me I got none |
| 20:51.31 | Maldivia | VIad: need level 10 char for forum |
| 20:51.37 | VIad | leveling here I come! |
| 20:51.45 | VIad | what I do just to post on the beta forums in US :P |
| 20:52.06 | Maldivia | you can use starter to post on US forums now for beta? |
| 20:52.16 | VIad | dunno - I think someone said you can |
| 20:52.25 | Maldivia | hmm, that's new |
| 20:52.28 | kd3 | yes, as long as you have a beta key on your bnet account, a starter us account will work |
| 20:52.33 | kd3 | they just hooked it up this week |
| 20:53.53 | kd3 | ahaha, wow. another account wipe |
| 20:53.54 | kd3 | wow |
| 20:54.03 | VIad | what? |
| 20:54.07 | VIad | kd3: right now? |
| 20:54.10 | VIad | I just got to 96 lol |
| 20:54.16 | Alram | yeah |
| 20:54.18 | kd3 | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13595439411 |
| 20:54.18 | Alram | deal with it |
| 20:54.34 | kd3 | the wipe is happening today |
| 20:54.35 | Semlar | you can create level 100 characters though |
| 20:54.36 | VIad | can I at least copy my live character from EU? :D |
| 20:54.40 | VIad | Semlar: only on PVP realm |
| 20:54.50 | Semlar | but it says pve characters.. |
| 20:54.53 | kd3 | nope, pve ones too (read the sticky) |
| 20:54.55 | foxlit | viad cannot read. |
| 20:54.57 | VIad | oh |
| 20:55.08 | VIad | I saw the link now :) |
| 20:55.16 | Semlar | :| |
| 20:55.43 | VIad | I'll just make a 100. It's beta, don't need to level to 100 :D |
| 20:55.48 | VIad | that's gonna be live work |
| 20:57.08 | smcn | i like lvling to 100 in beta so i can get the story (yes i still care about that) and just blow through it on live |
| 20:57.17 | smcn | s/100/cap/ |
| 20:57.46 | smcn | and also know which quests to skip/prioritize |
| 21:00.21 | Amarande | smcn: unless we're hearkening back to old outland, there's not much in the way of choice in quest progression |
| 21:00.57 | Amarande | it feels kind of sad that way, actually. used to be you had lots and lots of choice as to which quests to do and not do, except for a fairly few strongly bound chains |
| 21:01.23 | Amarande | now most zones are mainly linear (pandaria often let you pick what order to visit outposts in a zone in after the first one, but still) |
| 21:01.24 | fewyn | http://venturebeat.com/2014/07/24/googles-1b-purchase-of-twitch-confirmed-joins-youtube-for-new-video-empire/ |
| 21:01.54 | Amarande | though in a practical sense, it really only gets especially irritating from a gameplay standpoint in one particular case |
| 21:02.27 | Amarande | Don't do what I've done at times and make the mistake of slacking off an an alt in the teen levels. Make sure you get to 20 before you relax. :) |
| 21:03.09 | smcn | Amarande: yeah I guess, there is some still "customization" as far as progression though, i.e. order you do quests |
| 21:03.36 | smcn | first run-through i guess i do all the quests anyways for dem cheevs |
| 21:03.51 | Amarande | heh, and pandaria pretty much made you do everything anyway |
| 21:03.54 | VIad | I invest myself on live |
| 21:03.58 | Amarande | with the way it handled valor gea |
| 21:04.00 | Amarande | *gear |
| 21:04.01 | VIad | when things are ironed out and the experience is complete :) |
| 21:04.42 | Amarande | since to get your valor gear you had to get top tier reps which you could only get by doing dailies which you could pretty much only unlock by questing out the zones they were in |
| 21:04.43 | smcn | VIad: AWESOME IN-GAME EVENT |
| 21:04.47 | VIad | :P |
| 21:04.55 | VIad | got several of those |
| 21:05.07 | Amarande | we're back to dungeon and turnin based reps for wod, I hope? |
| 21:05.17 | kd3 | one of the things I'm trying to more explicitly do this expansion is call out the optional quests: http://wowpedia.org/smvquest |
| 21:05.19 | smcn | i only just got in on monday so all i saw was the one in the forest |
| 21:05.22 | kd3 | (since nothing in smv awards rep yet) |
| 21:05.45 | Amarande | kd3: heh, and let's make sure it does award rep when it should :) |
| 21:05.49 | Amarande | no more repeats of vashj'ir :p |
| 21:06.21 | kd3 | frostfire ridge still has a few quests that award Frostwolf Clan (the AV rep) and not Frostwolf Orcs (the Draenor rep) |
| 21:06.29 | Alram | Esamynn|work, http://marlamin.com/minimaps/draenor18566.png <stuff from twitter convo still works, eureka |
| 21:08.26 | foxlit | hm, there should be a name -> list of realms on which this name is available service. |
| 21:08.57 | smcn | there should be a switch these two character names service and if there is then that's cool |
| 21:09.10 | kd3 | ooh. an annotated draenor minimap texture <3 |
| 21:09.12 | Semlar | there should be an escort service |
| 21:09.12 | VIad | btw what is being done to the SV issue with several realms being one realm? |
| 21:09.22 | smcn | escort quest service |
| 21:09.23 | VIad | i.e. Bagnon addon considering what character has what gear. |
| 21:09.43 | foxlit | nothing, itâs an addon problem. Solve it yourself. |
| 21:11.19 | Semlar | annotate's kd3 |
| 21:11.50 | smcn | you're a nnotate |
| 21:12.31 | Semlar | you better believe it |
| 21:17.30 | Mr_Rabies | oh jeez |
| 21:17.37 | Mr_Rabies | i'm in some kind of insane phasing loop |
| 21:17.46 | Mr_Rabies | i keep jumping between phases for this westfall quest |
| 21:18.06 | Alram | "the player wont ever notice a phase change" - blizzard at one point in the past |
| 21:18.29 | foxlit | flies right ouf ot the window as soon as there are harvestable resources near a phase transition |
| 21:18.36 | Mr_Rabies | i'm watching myself constantly restealth and shimmer |
| 21:18.44 | foxlit | dammit Shattrah, I do not want to enter you. |
| 21:18.56 | Mr_Rabies | and people run to a spot, disappear, and reappear |
| 21:18.57 | Mr_Rabies | this is nuts |
| 21:19.24 | foxlit | (as usual, this is handled better by GW2: per-player story instances prompt you to enter them) |
| 21:19.42 | Mr_Rabies | is that really handled better, though? |
| 21:20.19 | kd3 | yes, one of the big pain points in smv right now is that the capstone quest takes place inside a single-player scenario and you only enter the scenario midway through a bombing run |
| 21:20.28 | kd3 | the instance server for that scenario has been flaky all beta |
| 21:20.49 | foxlit | I like the prompt better than having resource nodes taunt you. |
| 21:20.51 | kd3 | there's no way to manually zone in - have to try the bombing run repeatedly until the planets align |
| 21:21.28 | Mr_Rabies | resource nodes really should be phaseless, and in a lot of cases seem to be |
| 21:21.40 | Mr_Rabies | they went through a bunch of passes fixing phased resource nodes in cata |
| 21:21.44 | Mr_Rabies | haven't much seen the problem since |
| 21:21.55 | foxlit | this isnât so much phasing as transitioning world servers without a loading screen |
| 21:22.16 | foxlit | something else runs the scenario, and it could care less that the world you just left had a tree growing way over there. |
| 21:22.35 | Mr_Rabies | like, in place scenarios that aren't instanced? |
| 21:22.56 | Mr_Rabies | well, not like a traditional instance |
| 21:22.57 | kd3 | yep. that's how they're doing the garrisons and the defense of karabor (so far) |
| 21:23.01 | Alram | the new cosmectic instances in WoD are nice yeah |
| 21:23.12 | Mr_Rabies | instead of a phased thing, it's an instance without a portal/prompt |
| 21:23.14 | Mr_Rabies | interesting |
| 21:23.17 | Alram | the maps themselves only have changed tiles of where the instances are in |
| 21:23.26 | Alram | but the parent map (draenor) is still loaded in the distance |
| 21:23.29 | Alram | to keep up the illusion |
| 21:24.02 | Semlar | terrain phasing basically takes a chunk out of one instance and puts it in another one |
| 21:24.21 | Simca | foxlit> I like the prompt better than having resource nodes taunt you. |
| 21:24.40 | Simca | blizz would completely disagree i'm sure - "It ruins the immersion/we want a seamless experience" |
| 21:25.10 | Semlar | i just like being able to see a rare that's in another phase and moving over to it makes it vanish |
| 21:25.21 | foxlit | that argument applies both ways. |
| 21:25.26 | kd3 | except for the whole "do you want to begin this solo scenario?" thing they did on isle of thunder... |
| 21:25.45 | Mr_Rabies | seamless experience wins for me, but i haven't seen them in action |
| 21:26.08 | Semlar | isle of thunder had terrain phasing too |
| 21:26.16 | kd3 | when both instance servers are up, the draenor<->garrison thing is pretty neat to see |
| 21:26.30 | Alram | also when garrison server is up and draenor isnt |
| 21:26.36 | Alram | sometimes leaves you with a sizable time to explore |
| 21:26.43 | Alram | great stuff :D |
| 21:26.44 | Semlar | when you first landed at on the isle of thunder the starting towns didn't exist |
| 21:26.45 | foxlit | garrison is done right, in the sense that thereâs nothing around it. |
| 21:27.05 | kd3 | it's entirely nonobvious that you're changing instances except for the whole getting cut out of zone chat |
| 21:27.09 | kd3 | ...thing |
| 21:28.35 | foxlit | shattrath isnât, because there are things around it, and transitioning makes them vanish. Thatâs basically a rather visible seam in the world. |
| 21:29.26 | Semlar | poof! |
| 21:29.40 | smcn | you know what i kind of don't like in wod so far is how many areas have their own world map, like when i'm leaving the garrison on foot i can't just hit M to get an idea of which direction i want to go, i have to zoom out once |
| 21:31.10 | Semlar | http://i.imgur.com/oNTRWqG.jpg |
| 21:32.04 | Simca | dat R |
| 21:32.20 | VIad | your map addon Semlar? |
| 21:32.29 | Semlar | yarr |
| 21:32.36 | VIad | gonna release it for wod? :D |
| 21:32.57 | Gethe | ^ |
| 21:33.17 | Semlar | if i replace the world map i have to replace like all of the quest stuff and archaeology things bleh |
| 21:33.50 | VIad | listen |
| 21:33.53 | VIad | make it modular |
| 21:34.01 | VIad | it will be better for you too |
| 21:34.02 | VIad | :P |
| 21:35.01 | Semlar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:36.26 | Mr_Rabies | assuming the texture thing is fixed, so far what kind of addons are gonna be hellaciously broken in 6.0 so far? |
| 21:36.41 | Semlar | probably anything that relies on GUIDs |
| 21:36.52 | Semlar | well, like pulling the npc id out of a GUID won't work |
| 21:37.08 | kd3 | the questlog and anything guid-related is going to need work |
| 21:37.08 | Semlar | so DBM |
| 21:37.15 | Semlar | but it would be easy to fix |
| 21:38.08 | Mr_Rabies | does the base questlog display quest level yet? |
| 21:38.46 | Semlar | chat addons that color by class will need to be fixed |
| 21:39.43 | Gethe | Mr_Rabies: QuestLog was combined with the map, and no it doesn't |
| 21:39.47 | Semlar | they changed the returns from GetSpellInfo so that'll break some things |
| 21:39.55 | Mr_Rabies | bleh |
| 21:40.05 | Mr_Rabies | what about rep rewards for quests? |
| 21:40.54 | kd3 | rep rewards still aren't listed in the quest ui in-game |
| 21:43.10 | Mr_Rabies | argh |
| 21:43.22 | Mr_Rabies | hopefully they add those since they're redoing the quest log, at least |
| 21:43.46 | Mr_Rabies | level i could see being take or leave, but reputation really should be listed in the quest rewards section |
| 21:46.25 | smcn | is there supposed to be a ui & addons beta forum? i know addons were only enabled like last build #butstill |
| 21:47.28 | Henk_ | IF I want to anchor a frame from left to right on another frame. do I have to take the width of the parent and add that to the x from point left? becaus I cant seem to find a anchor from |
| 21:47.57 | Semlar | f:SetPoint('LEFT', f2, 'RIGHT') |
| 21:48.20 | Henk_ | where do I input offset? |
| 21:48.23 | Semlar | after that |
| 21:48.29 | Henk_ | ok thanks |
| 21:48.36 | Semlar | f:SetPoint('LEFT', f2, 'RIGHT', x, y) |
| 21:48.37 | Mr_Rabies | just tag posts in the regular ui/macro forum as [BETA] until they put 2 and 2 together, smcn |
| 21:48.56 | Semlar | SetPoint has like 5 different formats it can take |
| 21:48.59 | smcn | Mr_Rabies: hah, but my acct isn't active D: i don't even know if i can post on beta forums |
| 21:49.20 | kd3 | if you have a beta key, you can post on the beta forums, even if you don't have an active us account |
| 21:49.32 | Semlar | Henk_: http://wowpedia.org/API_Region_SetPoint |
| 21:49.34 | smcn | kd3: cool good to know |
| 21:50.12 | Semlar | you can also do obj:SetPoint(point, relativeTo) which isn't listed on there |
| 21:50.52 | Semlar | and therefor also obj:SetPoint(point, relativeTo, x, y) |
| 21:50.55 | Henk_ | ok thanks |
| 21:52.36 | Semlar | if you only list one point it attaches that point to the same point on the other frame |
| 21:54.35 | VIad | what headset do you use for awesome gaming/music? |
| 21:57.49 | smcn | i heard tritton is pretty good, though i used to have one with a removable mic and it stopped working after like a month |
| 21:58.06 | smcn | also don't buy into "surround sound" headphones imo they're mostly BS |
| 21:59.45 | Mr_Rabies | i use my speakers for game audio |
| 21:59.50 | Mr_Rabies | my headset is just for voice chat |
| 21:59.59 | Mr_Rabies | mono microsoft lifechat headset with a 2 year warranty |
| 22:03.25 | Henk_ | I have two lua files in my TOC how do I call functions from another? Do I have to use a global? |
| 22:04.05 | Henk_ | or do they share the same scope? |
| 22:07.03 | Simca | scope is shared between them through a special argument |
| 22:07.09 | VIad | local addonName, sharedTable = ... |
| 22:07.11 | kd3 | the first thing the addon environment passes to your script is addonName, addonPrivateTable = ... |
| 22:07.13 | VIad | put that on top of your lua |
| 22:07.27 | VIad | it just means the function loading your file will pass along two arguments |
| 22:07.31 | kd3 | make that the first operative line, then put things you want to share in that privateTable |
| 22:07.36 | VIad | one is the name of the addon folder, other is a table |
| 22:08.23 | Henk_ | Thanks that is really good to know |
| 22:08.36 | smcn | anyone know if clique is working on beta? i rly want to try healing but i don't think i could live without it |
| 22:08.51 | Simca | you have to specifically declare things inside the table to use them in both files though. "function sharedTable.KittenFunc" can be used in both files, whereas "function KittenFunc" can only be used in the file it was declared in |
| 22:09.09 | Simca | "local function KittenFunc"* |
| 22:09.40 | jleclanche | anyone on wine+wow who's ever been able to actually use the ingame shop? |
| 22:09.49 | jleclanche | as in buy stuff and not on PTRs |
| 22:09.51 | Henk_ | and the order in the toc matters i persume |
| 22:10.03 | kd3 | yes henk |
| 22:24.12 | VIad | beta up? |
| 22:24.56 | kd3 | doubt it |
| 22:26.39 | kd3 | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13568067081?page=8#153 |
| 22:27.25 | VIad | :D |
| 22:27.33 | VIad | hope something goes wrong |
| 22:27.40 | VIad | and my character gets bugged items that are OP |
| 22:35.03 | Amarande | hrm, I'd test it if wine was working on this pc (and if I had an active sub) |
| 22:35.24 | Amarande | I'm not sure why it wouldn't, though, it seems to be based on normal ingame UI stuff at least visually |
| 22:35.50 | Amarande | (yeah, I know some games where the ingame store is specifically dependent on loading an IE window within the game, and yeah, sometimes IE specifically and not just the default browser :|) |
| 22:36.19 | Amarande | no, I'm not sure why a game would specifically ask for an IE window and not the regular default browser |
| 22:36.44 | kd3 | because they're using the IE engine? |
| 22:37.02 | kd3 | just like how wow uses chromium-embedded for the in-game knowledgebase |
| 22:38.21 | VIad | karl_w_w: The Art of Rat Dota https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezTtb1sY_Hw |
| 22:41.24 | *** join/#wowuidev kd3|hate`net (~Kaydeethr@unaffiliated/kd3) |
| 22:42.41 | Gnarfoz | "rat dota" is such an annoying term... as if it wasn't a perfectly valid strategy |
| 22:44.00 | Mr_Rabies | I find most moba-related terms are annoying |
| 22:44.01 | Gnarfoz | I find wearing a hat (beanie?) in California during the summer more objectionable. :P |
| 22:44.57 | VIad | Gnarfoz: I am not sure of the origin, but isn't it because they eat up each lane ever so slowly until they get megacreeps? :P |
| 22:45.09 | VIad | you avoid confrontation and focus on pushing lanes |
| 22:45.21 | Gnarfoz | the first is not correct |
| 22:45.24 | Gnarfoz | the second is |
| 22:46.00 | Gnarfoz | and it's not because rats eat stuff, but because that's supposed to attribute cowardice to it |
| 22:46.04 | Gnarfoz | (which is ridiculous) |
| 22:47.24 | VIad | :p |
| 22:47.40 | Gnarfoz | I didn't watch many of the first group stage games this year, but from what I heard, they basically tried the same as last year and failed epicly |
| 22:47.47 | VIad | yes |
| 22:47.57 | VIad | this year not much rat in the finals |
| 22:48.03 | VIad | I think it was quickest games ever |
| 22:48.05 | Gnarfoz | instead, most boring finals ever. |
| 22:48.07 | VIad | first game ever was 14 min |
| 22:48.12 | VIad | final was like 17 min |
| 22:48.13 | VIad | :P |
| 22:48.20 | VIad | so fast ! |
| 22:48.28 | Gnarfoz | and quickest match of the tournament: 11.something |
| 22:48.41 | VIad | meta always varies |
| 22:49.48 | *** join/#wowuidev Jazn (~Jaz@host86-150-85-205.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:49.54 | Gnarfoz | just saying: calling it some derogatory name when it's highly effective... seems illogical |
| 22:50.15 | VIad | it's just a name |
| 22:50.39 | Gnarfoz | one that implies whoever uses it is a coward |
| 22:50.54 | Gnarfoz | doesn't make sense to me :D |
| 22:52.44 | VIad | want me to cheer you up? |
| 22:52.55 | Gnarfoz | who said I was sad? :D |
| 22:53.07 | VIad | :D |
| 22:56.01 | *** join/#wowuidev Kultzi (~ironi@85-76-49-198-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 23:00.13 | *** join/#wowuidev Trela (~alexia@c-71-207-204-118.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.50 | karl_w_w | yeah dota has a very similar problem to hearthstone at the moment |
| 23:02.15 | karl_w_w | the early game is so strong that any strat which involves the late game is pretty much irrelevant |
| 23:03.16 | karl_w_w | the problem is caused by charge (and to a lesser extent warlock hero power) in hearthstone, and it's caused by low cooldown 0 mana cost blink dagger in dota |
| 23:04.54 | karl_w_w | it's a shame too, if it werent for blink dagger the balance in dota would be incredible |
| 23:05.10 | karl_w_w | there are only like 10 heroes out of 100-something that aren't viable |
| 23:11.40 | karl_w_w | 102 |
| 23:14.53 | karl_w_w | and i would say that only 7 arent viable, omniknight huskar pudge spiritbreaker medusa lina warlock |
| 23:15.45 | karl_w_w | although I'm pretty sure dusa is only not viable because nobody has tried her, and omniknight is amazing in the right lineup |
| 23:16.17 | Amarande | karl_w_w: I'm guessing this is probably by design because "people want shorter games" :( |
| 23:16.39 | Amarande | seems that the popular attention span has gone down over the years, and games have been designed accordingly |
| 23:16.55 | Amarande | even Magic seems to have fallen prey to it since dammit what was that set that came out in 2011 that introduced infect |
| 23:19.31 | karl_w_w | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA2V4yjpm7Q there's an example of omniknight |
| 23:19.48 | Amarande | hell, even look at chess |
| 23:20.05 | Amarande | the standard time controls nowadays even in tournaments are much shorter than they were back in the classical days |
| 23:20.24 | Amarande | and if you want any human-human games on ICC or FICS that aren't blitz or lightning, GLWT |
| 23:20.46 | smcn | i don't play magic but couldn't it be due to constraints on holding tournaments? |
| 23:21.32 | Amarande | heh, there is the fact that games sometimes still do have to be kept under control length-wise |
| 23:21.50 | Amarande | like the one time I played in a double-table draft at a party |
| 23:22.26 | Amarande | too many folks to draft at a single table so we split it into two tables for the draft phase |
| 23:22.51 | Amarande | well ... that time I decided to play blue, let's put it this way, when I met up with the guy from the other table who had focused on blue ... yeah, that game almost never ended it seemed LOL |
| 23:22.56 | Amarande | I think it went a good hour-ish |
| 23:23.11 | Amarande | but then, that's blue :) |
| 23:24.01 | smcn | it's interesting to compare magic to hearthstone in that way, from what you just said it sounds like blue is control which was my experience when i played, but in hearthstone there are control decks for half the classes |
| 23:24.41 | smcn | and where hearthstone now seems to be focused on aggro i wonder if it's just a pendulum |
| 23:24.47 | TC-Work | Infect does not shorten the game any more than any other gimmick. |
| 23:25.00 | smcn | like will magic come to be "too short" and thus another exp comes to refocus on control |
| 23:25.21 | Amarande | TC-Work: it does seem to at least feel like it reduces the value of a lot of traditional late game strategies |
| 23:25.56 | *** join/#wowuidev Ressy (~Ressy@WoWUIDev/WoWAce/ARL/Ressy) |
| 23:26.05 | Amarande | simply because a lot of single expensive creature based deck strategies aren't viable because a horde of infect creatures will wear your flagship down and ruin you |
| 23:26.22 | Amarande | even explicitly Indestructible creatures can be killed by infect creatures |
| 23:26.44 | TC-Work | Correct, because it is not damage |
| 23:27.04 | TC-Work | Can not be destroyed does not mean, can not die. |
| 23:31.10 | *** join/#wowuidev zoktar (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar) |
| 23:45.35 | Henk_ | I have a weird issue code: http://a.pomf.se/rhlbjw.txt error: http://a.pomf.se/edvfmf.txt the parent is right there and im sending it in. |
| 23:50.08 | foxlit | I think the error message is more reliable than you are. |
| 23:51.03 | Henk_ | Yeah but I cant figure out why it happens |
| 23:52.01 | foxlit | learn. Some of your assumptions are clealry wrong; figure out which ones and fix them. |
| 23:52.50 | Henk_ | is it a scoping error? |
| 23:52.50 | foxlit | for instance: âand im sending it in.â are you really? |
| 23:53.25 | Henk_ | create page does not return the frame it made. |
| 23:53.28 | Henk_ | Thank you |
| 23:53.40 | Semlar | are you making people do things for themselves again foxlit |
| 23:55.00 | foxlit | a hobby of mine, Semlar. |
| 23:55.13 | Arrowmaster | i cant open my new container of shaving soap |
| 23:55.26 | Semlar | have you tried turning it off and on again? |
| 23:55.28 | TC-Work | Burn it with fire! |
| 23:55.42 | Henk_ | for instance: âi cant open my new container of shaving soapâ are you really? |
| 23:55.53 | Arrowmaster | the lid is sealed on so fucking tight i think i hurt my hand |
| 23:56.06 | Simca | did you try a blowtorch |
| 23:56.06 | Semlar | maybe it's not the lid |
| 23:56.07 | TC-Work | He is also a 16 year old gurl so he can't even. |
| 23:56.12 | Henk_ | Use another bottle and hit it like you want to make a fire with flint |
| 23:56.17 | Henk_ | Works for me. |
| 23:56.20 | *** join/#wowuidev Kodiack (~Colto_000@121-73-86-207.cable.telstraclear.net) |
| 23:56.26 | Arrowmaster | i dont want to break it |
| 23:56.30 | Henk_ | it wont |
| 23:56.39 | Arrowmaster | and its a screw on lid |
| 23:56.46 | Semlar | also what is shaving soap |
| 23:56.46 | Henk_ | stab it |
| 23:56.54 | TC-Work | aka shaving cream |
| 23:57.03 | TC-Work | aka shaving lather |
| 23:57.10 | Arrowmaster | http://www.maggardrazors.com/product/taylor-of-old-bond-street-tobs-avocado-shave-cream/ |
| 23:57.24 | Henk_ | forgot about that while i was moving my eyes from the message to the input box |
| 23:57.38 | TC-Work | But in this case something you would expect to see in a place like LA. |
| 23:57.54 | Arrowmaster | what |
| 23:57.55 | Semlar | are you sure you're turning it the right way |
| 23:58.01 | Henk_ | Just ask the nearest female to open it for you. |
| 23:58.06 | Arrowmaster | i did |
| 23:58.11 | Arrowmaster | she couldnt |
| 23:58.28 | Henk_ | Did you say "I bet you cant" before you gave it to her? |
| 23:58.42 | Simca | roflmao |
| 23:58.55 | Henk_ | Works every time. |
| 23:59.02 | Arrowmaster | no but she did give me the rubber jar grip thingies and i couldnt get it with those either |
| 23:59.02 | Henk_ | 60% of the time |
| 23:59.18 | Semlar | "it smells like plastic wrap (in a good way if that makes sense)" i like this review |
| 23:59.37 | Arrowmaster | lol |
| 23:59.44 | Henk_ | he could have said "fresh" instead :P |
